บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ 284. DANCE + CHARISSA KROEGER

up the coast because PCH is open now, and 7 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:54.000 that 8 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.000 was fantastic. 9 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.000 What kind of truck you drive? 10 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.000 Tacoma. 2013. 11 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000 2013? 12 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:00.000 Yeah. 13 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:06.000 Okay. Please don't be offended, but I took you as a kind of a vintage gal. I thought I was gonna be older, 14 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000 so. 15 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:12.000 Because they make those for life, you can. I'm pretty sure my ex has a 83. 16 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Yeah, you ain't wrong. I. Honestly, the shape of mine was a little too bubblicious for me. I 17 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.000 wanted 18 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.000 it to be more. 19 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.000 You wanted the vintage one. You want a truck, you don't want a marshmallow. 20 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.000 Metal, not plastic. Thank 21 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.000 you. 22 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:49.000 Out of plastic. So we're driving around in these Barbie cars, but yeah, so vintage would have been the way, but I am not a mechanic, girly. So if something broke down, I did not want to deal with that nor pay for that. So I thought, let's get a little more trusted. And, you know, having Bluetooth and stuff is kind of the convenience sometimes, you know, 23 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:52.000 so you truly have the best of both. I 24 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.000 got to have my music. Yeah, 25 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:58.000 I get that. Good for you. What's your car's name? Truck's name? Sorry. 26 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.000 It's called twa. 27 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.000 You know why. What. What I feel really tender about right now. 28 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.000 TW uk. 29 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:10.000 Guess what my ex's truck is called. 30 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:11.000 Stop. 31 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:16.000 Chuck. T C H U C K 32 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.000 Chuck. I mean, you know, sometimes. Synchronicity. 33 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:53.000 I feel so unlocked right now. I feel so tender. Let's move through it. Vulnerable. I'm moving. Thank you. Guide me. Charism. Okay, cool. Usually. Usually this part happens at the beginning, but we've covered quite a lot already. I would love for you to introduce yourself. I'm so curious to hear how you introduce yourself to people because a. It's just an interesting thing to hear what my thoughts about someone and how. How they might differ from their own thoughts about themselves. So tell the good listener viewer anything you want us to know about you. 34 00:05:53.000 --> 00:06:01.000 Yeah, let's see. Has anyone introduced themselves, modeled off the pod and just said, I'm Chris A plus. 35 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:04.000 No. 36 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:11.000 Honestly. You know, I don't have to tell you this, but maybe people that don't know me that Tony Basil is my queen and yours. 37 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000 Yes. 38 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.000 And so when you said the backstory of how the pod got rebranded. 39 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.000 Yeah. 40 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:19.000 And it was from her, I was just like, of course, of 41 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.000 course, of course. And 42 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:26.000 I resonated with it so, so deeply. Because you can be yourself plus. 43 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:27.000 Right, 44 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:27.000 whatever. And 45 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:38.000 why would I further corner myself versus open and. And give myself even opportunities that I don't know that I want yet? It's plus. 46 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.000 Oh, it's plus. 47 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:47.000 So, yeah. Plus is opportunity, plus is options, plus is open, plus is growth. 48 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:48.000 Plus 49 00:06:47.000 --> 00:07:12.000 is also already a lot of different hats which our lord and savior, Tony Basil also wears so many hats. She is a producer, she is a singer, songwriter. She is a pillar of the dance community. She's a freestyler. She's a historian. She is history. She's, you know, she's so many things. And so, yeah, there's. There was no questioning dance. 50 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.000 It's so good. I love it. 51 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:42.000 Well, it started as jazz. If you haven't listened to the episode that Chrissa is talking about, we will link it in the show notes. But the. The plus conversation happened when we're discussing my style of dance. She was like, what do you call that, you know, the you thing that you're doing right now? And I was like, I hate that question. Because the. The genre fication of things, the labeling of things. I get that we're. That we're humans and that compartmentalization helps our little human brains make sense of this big, complex world. 52 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.000 Already. I know this, so it makes sense. 53 00:07:45.000 --> 00:08:42.000 Yes. Or I am introducing you to someone else in 30 seconds. It will help them understand you better if I'm able to say she's a this dancer, but I love. This is Carissa plus. She's plus. She's many pluses. And you wear many hats and you wear them so wonderfully well. I. Yeah. I love it when my friends. And by the way, a lot of my friends are this way, that I don't think of them as a choreographer. I don't think of you as a choreographer. I think I might think of you as a movement director before I think of you as a choreographer. That's not to say don't do both, but I see you operating in between spaces a lot. This isn't quite eight counts, but it's also not typically movement direction. This isn't typically dance, but it also isn't fashion photography. Like, what is this thing? What is this place that you operate within? So Carissa plus makes a lot of sense. 54 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:50.000 Yeah. The between spaces is My happy place for sure. That's. There's so much magic in there and I think that's where

I like to live. 55 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.000 Why do you think that is? 56 00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:19.000 I think I'm just a curious being. I think beyond artists and researcher, I'm just curious and I find that I was thinking about that in terms of kind of my creative career, artistic practice and whether it's in or as a performance artist or choreographer, creative movement, director, filmmaker, director. I really just feel like everything I'm doing is research 57 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.000 and there 58 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:25.000 might be an end goal but it's really, it's really process based and rabbit hole based. 59 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:40.000 That is a big unlocking component. Instead of I'm defining this thing in the work, I'm discovering the next thing through this one thing. I'm researching right now. I'm on this project. Researching. 60 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:58.000 Yeah. And it's not to lower the stakes of like, oh, it's a little loose or more. It's more casual. The stakes are still high. It's still we're all giving everything. My collaborators, myself, but it definitely feels like play and exploration are at the forefront. 61 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:26.000 You know, curiosity is the great unlocker. It really is. I think curiosity. I like what you said, that this isn't about releasing pressure or lowering the stakes. This is a lovely container for pressure. When I'm under pressure, curiosity helps me move. It doesn't mean the pressure goes away. It means I have more questions, which means more options. It's again options plus curiosity plus 62 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:27.000 the plus man 63 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.000 the plus. The power of the plus 64 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.000 plus. 65 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.000 While we were doing our mic check, you also mentioned power of a different, 66 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.000 of 67 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.000 a different variety. 68 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.000 Okay, so I have been. It revolved around the fist. 69 00:10:40.000 --> 00:11:05.000 Let's just, let's just context here. Best practice is once we sit down, I help the guest find a great microphone distance by making a measurable fists width from mouth and what. I can't remember the sentence that you said. It was like right as you were turning on the camera. So we might actually have it. You said the power of the fist these days or something like that. So where else has the fist been showing up for you, Krista? 70 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:33.000 So it's very wholesome. It has to do with this incredible technique called Klein technique that I discovered through my friend Nina Pearlman. Gyrotonic has been my complete bag the past year. I love it. It's helped redevelop my body and just created healthier fascial pathways but basically incline the first thing that my teacher and I've taken three classes so I am no expert 71 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:39.000 but this is good. You should be explaining it to a beginner because you

are one and it will help you understand it better. 72 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:40.000 Yeah, go 73 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.000 for 74 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:58.000 it. So the instructor asked us to stay in a parallel position. We normally are standing with our feet under our hips. Right. And normally they're a little bit wider because we're like power stance people. And she said it's normally just a fist with distance. So if you put. 75 00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.000 Yes. 76 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:03.000 This in between your feet, that's really your heels under your sits bones. 77 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:04.000 Wait, one fist. 78 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.000 One fist. So it's quite narrow. 79 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.000 Yeah. 80 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:49.000 But I really love that technique because a lot of the things I explore are poetic and really floral and exploratory, as I already told you. And this is so fact based. It. She will use language such as. And I'm forgetting the woman's first name who developed it. She's now in New York, and maybe she's always been in New York and has taught it to the Paul Taylor dancers. And it's just so good for any type of dance. But I can see how it would be great for modern dance. And so the language of this technique is there are two lines of energy, two forces of energy, rather from your sits bones to your heels. And this is not a question, this is like direct fact. 81 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.000 Okay. 82 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.000 And there's language such as thrust or counter thrust. 83 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.000 Okay. And 84 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:36.000 that felt to my sensitive pony brain so much. I was like, what a thrust. But it just felt so forceful. And I've just wanted to find so much softness in my physical body. But I loved it because it took out all the emotionality that lives in sort of the muscle fascial components of your system. And it was just bones. So it's bones lining up. These forces are not a question. They're permanent and fixed, and you're just working on that. And then there's points that go out the top of your body too. But that was Klein and it was revealed because I had to realign my feet and really find my true parallel and the bones. Your 85 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.000 stack? 86 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.000 Yes, my stack. 87 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:46.000 Um, I would love to take a class with you sometime and then we'll do this episode again and I'll be freaking out about this. 88 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.000 It's so crazy. You're literally doing roll downs for 89 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.000 an hour, 90 00:13:51.000 --> 00:14:10.000 maybe two, because it's so slow. And then we'll talk about. And like I said, I've done three classes, so I've of course went on a YouTube rampage and was looking up how the developer would teach it in sort of like a ballet class or whatever. And it's it's along the same lines of the body. 91 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:11.000 Okay. 92 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.000 But through the Klein lens. So. 93 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.000 And always working parallel. 94 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:31.000 No. So that's kind of how you would warm up. And honestly, after two roll downs, you are warm. Everything is connected. Your weight is so grounded. You are so present. Yeah. There's a. You just have to explain. 95 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.000 I'm gonna go ahead, 96 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.000 I'm gonna take you guys. 97 00:14:34.000 --> 00:15:01.000 Yo. Pilates changed me. And we, like, I grew up in a dance studio before there was a lot of cross training. Like on my way out, we had like some yoga incorporated into the warm up or cool down or like occasion. Like maybe right at the end. We're talking about like pelvic tuck and tilt. But never was there a reformer. We never had a band, we never had a ball. Like it was the way that. 98 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.000 Oh my gosh. 99 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.000 Right. The way that kids, you're 100 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.000 gonna get bulky. Yeah. 101 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.000 That's the fucking patriarchy talking. 102 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Correct. 103 00:15:11.000 --> 00:16:10.000 Let's keep em weak. Let's keep em like little veals. I am on a strength journey and I met with a coach this morning who was talking a lot about alignment and weakness and strength and compensation. And I really, I think, and I don't know if this thought serves me anymore, but I think I have a unique body. And anatomically, proportionately, I've got a relatively short torso, I've got relatively long legs. And as a result, I think certain parts of me have to work harder than others. And certain parts drive instead of. Instead of passenger seat. And so today was like identifying a lot of what wants to go and having a closer relationship, a close, closer line of communication between what's firing and what's what should be firing and what is actually firing. So these conversations are fresh at the front of my mind. I think I must. 104 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.000 They're always. My 105 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:23.000 dear friend Jason Parsons has been obsessed with gyro for a 100 years. 100 years. I'm sorry, Jason. I just gave away your true age. He's a vampire. Yeah. Okay. 106 00:16:23.000 --> 00:17:09.000 I love that journey. I. I haven't been taking any dance jobs. One, I'm just transitioning into a different place creatively in my life. But two, I felt compelled to just kind of come into my body for myself. And part of that was getting rid of injury. Part of that was really listening instead of being amused, which I've loved for so much of my life. But as a maker, I need to find my own impulses and I feel clear on that. But I feel like I owe it to myself to go even deeper and more true to that. So that's been my past year and I've recently started dancing again. It's felt amazing and also interesting to come about things in a different way. I think

that's also with age, but. 107 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.000 Oof. 108 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.000 Yeah. 109 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:38.000 Oof. This is unlocking some important stuff, my friend. What would you say is the primary difference in. In the experience of being inside your body from being in muse mode and being in this other mode which you're stepping into now, which is as the listener, as the. As the one who is benefiting from the muse as. Because you're being your own muse. Right. And you're. What is the primary difference experientially like in your experience of your body? 110 00:17:38.000 --> 00:18:55.000 That's so interesting, I think. And I had to really dissect this because I kind of just live intuitively every aspect of my life. So I'm doing things and I'm thinking about them, but I'm also just feeling my way through. So I think in mus land. And this kind of goes to when I was assisting a lot of amazing individuals and artists, I almost felt like I was a plug. Like I would plug into them energetically and that was my way of feeling their creative impulses, anticipating their needs, knowing how to keep the energy cohesive and uplifted in the room and inspired. And so it really was kind of plugging in and going. And that would oftentimes leave me super depleted. And it wasn't because experiences weren't immensely fulfilling. Immensely. I mean, life changing is such an eye roll, but when you love what you do, it is life changing and soul stirring. But a lot of those folks that I was using for were men. And I didn't realize that plugging into a male way of operating could deplete me so much if I wasn't in my full feminine form and energy and power. 111 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.000 Yeah. 112 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.000 So yeah, I really 113 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:08.000 wearing a powerful men's blazer. For those of you listening, not watching, the shoulder is stacked and the shoulder is broad. And I know you put my 114 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000 shoulders just bone structure. So we just love this because it kind of 115 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.000 emphasize it. Yeah. Don't minimize it. I 116 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.000 don't minimize. 117 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:22.000 I wore this vintage beaded number to our friend Erica Sobels the other night. 118 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:23.000 I need 119 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:25.000 to see. I didn't real. Do you want to see? I will grab 120 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:26.000 it. 121 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.000 I didn't realize 122 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000 we should have a 123 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000 cult 124 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.000 change 125 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:45.000 that's happening. I didn't realize until a friend put their arm on my shoulder to like greet me and like have a. A mom. And I couldn't feel it. I Was like, oh, wow. That. It's a really stacked shoulder force 126 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.000 field. 127 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.000 Borderline 128 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.000 the 80s. Like the force 129 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:56.000 field of the shoulder. The force field of the shoulder pad. Oh, my God. It's gonna. It's gonna happen. Do you wanna. 130 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:15.000 No, Please. I kind of want a gossame change too, though. Do you want to come? Come? Yeah. Yeah. The way this is, is kind of my normal day where this is why I have so many clothes in my bag because. And I don't know how to pack. I need to know who I'm gonna be that day or 131 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.000 the many different kinds of person you're gonna be. So we're back. We 132 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.000 raided Dana's closet. 133 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:27.000 And. And. And I'm wearing this vintage unit that was given to me. 134 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.000 Unit is crazy 135 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:37.000 because. Because it's not a shirt. It's not a dress. It's its own unit in a way. It's its own universe because it's. 136 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.000 The stars are alive. 137 00:20:39.000 --> 00:21:08.000 It's. It's. It is planets and stars. That's what this shirt is. You might need to watch this episode if you are just listening. And this is a visual. It comes with, like, NFL football pads as shoulder pads. And it weighs so much. And it's crazy because I had never worn it before Erica's birthday. It was given to me. I've had it for ages. Probably seven years. Six. Seven years. Had never worn it because it's quite fancy. I'm glad you didn't give 138 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.000 it away. 139 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.000 It's not. I know because I knew that I would, but I can't travel with it because it weighs 40 pounds and is delicate. 140 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.000 In your toothbrush and your 141 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.000 suitcase. Look at it. It's got wings. 142 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.000 She got wings. It's 143 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:42.000 bingo wings. So now I've worn it two times in a week. And it's paid for itself because my. I have some vintage friends and they saw it and they thought of me. They were like, we. We held on to this because we thought you would love it. And then I was like, I tried it on, and they're like, oh, take that. Like, you need to have that. Take 144 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:51.000 that. But this with, like. I mean, it's gorgeous with my cargo. But no, I'm just. I'm thinking of the beat and the hair to 145 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:57.000 come. Style me sometime. Okay. We're gonna talk about fashion. Oh. But for then, tell us what you're wearing over here. 146 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:01.000 This is a Dana P. We're trying to. I wanted to say it properly. 147 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:23.000 Moschino. Moschino. Mo. This was not given to me. I bought that in Paris at a vintage spot in Paris. And it is one of my favorite items. I also can't get rid of it. I've worn it for a couple photo shoots. I have worn it to a couple events. But it's kind. It's so striking. What are you. Is not

your daily wear. It's also hot in there. It 148 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:24.000 is. It's a little hotter than my. 149 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.000 It's a little hot in there. Yeah. 150 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:27.000 So 151 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.000 you might. We might need to do one more part. Do the. We'll do one 152 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.000 more change. This is so fun, though. 153 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:43.000 But as we're in my. My room, we're talking about how our clothes inform our movement. And in that way, our closets are our toolboxes. Do you know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, clothing for dancers, maximum important. 154 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:56.000 Not so much anymore. But I used to have all my shoes in my car. Because you never knew as a lady, if you needed the pump, if you needed the industrial heel. Because you're going to be doing some crazy. If 155 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:01.000 you're gonna be wearing a full blown combat boot. If you need a. Yes. 156 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:02.000 The 157 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.000 docks sneaker for quick pivots. 158 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:10.000 Right. The little martial arts sneaker because you're doing some contemporary. 159 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.000 Do you have a sneak. A martial arts sneaker for contemporary. There's 160 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000 one that I would wear the favor. Will 161 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:36.000 you. Will you send me a link to it? Because I still struggle with what kind of sneaker I want to be dancing in. We've gone completely off agenda here. Does it feel okay for you? Because one of the things I really. I wanted to talk to you about being in supporting roles, especially to men, because I've spent most of my creative life doing that. 162 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.000 I'm gonna switch gears because I can feel 163 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.000 the sweat 164 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.000 going down my. 165 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.000 Yeah, let's do it. I'm also gonna take. Okay. Back to supporting the men's. 166 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000 Yes. Do we dare? I love how you prefaced it. 167 00:23:52.000 --> 00:24:42.000 Yeah. In my email, I was like, do we do this? Yeah, we definitely do. I was really attracted to more male choreographers and teachers than female. Don't know why. Like when you asked me today, my favorite teachers are women, but those that I gravitated towards, style wise, were men. And I would dress like them. And I would, like you said, kind of plug in to the energy. Plug in to the request frequency, demands and frequency of that, of those spaces, of those people, of those rooms. And sometimes bigger than rooms, sometimes of those stadiums. Right. If you're dancing Marty Koudelko's choreography for Justin Timberlake, it the bubble of energy that you're tapping into is more than just one person's. It's like a lot. 168 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:51.000 And it's spearheaded by a man. So there's a couple different layers of men in power, starting

with the tippity. 169 00:24:51.000 --> 00:26:01.000 Several layers of men in power. And I really enjoyed my time in those spaces. I remember one time also asking Tony Basil, or actually, you know, there's kind of. This is kind of twofold. There was a time when I got tired of doing, like, I Love youe and I was less inspired. And I mean, each Tour had like 100 plus shows. The 2020 experience, 153 shows. That's a lot of the same thing. So I ask my other mentors in my life. One of them, ironically, not a dancer, but JT's former trainer. His name is Jason Bonner, and he's also a podcast guest and dear friend and one of my favorite residual relationships of that time. And he encouraged me towards my show. This was just a show that I was working on, but in my show, which is code for my life, other things are important. So he would ask me, like, what does your show need for you to do today? 170 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:02.000 And 171 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:14.000 sometimes the answer to that was this show. In order for my show to be okay out there, it's better that I not quit this show. Do you know what I mean? So staying in that place was good for the show of my life. That 172 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.000 perspective shift is so beautiful. I love that. 173 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Just zoom out a little bit, Dane, because especially on 174 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.000 tour, all 175 00:26:21.000 --> 00:27:28.000 I could see, so important, so huge. And then what Tony Basel offered is this. The introduction of imagination, specifically from a woman's lens, where she encouraged for me to be. To pretend to be someone else and not a man, Pretend to be a cheerleader, pretend to be a vixen, pretend to be a schoolteacher, pretend to be a little girl, pretend to be some other kind of woman, but maybe to stop pretending to be the men that I was working for, because that got me there, working for those men. And if I wanted to get anywhere else, I would need new thoughts about myself. I would need a different kind of relationship to my body. I would need different shoes to wear and different pants. And that was a beautiful unlocking of otherness. And I. I don't beat myself up at all for spending most of my young lady life trying to be an old man. I think it's kind of sweet. 176 00:27:28.000 --> 00:28:12.000 Totally. So many points resonated. The last one that you spoke upon of fantasy and becoming different characters, that's what gets me going as a dancer, is I can kind of be inspired just to be in my own flow. But. And I think this leads into the world building that I do as a creative. When I have a clear fantasy of color, soundscape, texture, ideation, and, like, rhythms in my inner and outer world, I feel so activated. If you just turn on some music and say, improvise, it's like, I want to do something weird. I don't really want to dance. Yes. Until I know how the character I want to be moves. 177 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.000 Nice. And 178 00:28:12.000 -->

00:28:14.000 that takes time to feel. 179 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:15.000 Yeah. 180 00:28:15.000 --> 00:30:00.000 So, yeah. Really, really love that. And in terms of growing up, I think there was a physicality I really enjoyed about male choreography. And that was kind of my in of, you know, wanting to be one of the boys. In terms of my movement, I definitely love moving hyper femme and sexy and all of that. But there was something when I'd be in the room with men on a job where when they'd get to the boys part, they were working their asses off. And then the girls part would be like, find. And it still takes technique, it still takes effort, it still takes extreme prowess in the body, but find a line versus the boys who were just eating it up and, like, guts everywhere. And that's where I wanted to come from. And I think that's why when I came across some of my early mentors in the dance space, like Tony Testa, I just. There's like a kindredness right away. And I was, you know, little blonde, didn't speak much. Always back cornering it up. Not out of. I don't know, I guess it's a battle of. Of wanting to be seen or wanting to be in my own world. Stuff that I've worked on. But I think it was just, again, I wanted to be in my own fantasy. I didn't want to feel the energy of that front of room. There's too many people around. I wanted to just explore my own thing. But, you know, he really, like, plucked me up when we first encountered one another. And that was so beautiful because I really felt at the time that that movement spoke to me. And it was like the effort and the power that I didn't feel in my early 20s, early teens, early childhood, that I could then always feel dancing 181 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.000 nice. 182 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:02.000 So that means that 183 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:53.000 that word is key. Effort. And I feel like what I was most drawn to, let's say Marty, for example, was an effortlessness. I loved how cool it looked. And as a kid who grew up feeling largely uncool, I absolutely desired to feel cool. Or as a person who. Who grows up being Encouraged to be soft or gentle or find the line. I can see how something that's opposite, something that looks hard, full of effort, could be attractive. I also am a big test of fan, and I. I love how much work it takes physically and otherwise to do his work. Also a huge amount of imagination and introspection and. And world building. 184 00:30:53.000 --> 00:31:08.000 He is a digger, and I learned how to dig in the creative mud to really. I don't know, this search of finding something that is pure and excellent, but also finding, like, the most rendered version of what could possibly be. 185 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.000 Yeah. 186 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.000 Produced or excavated. 187 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:18.000 Okay, if Tessa is a digger, what are you 188 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.000 in? When I'm working with in 189 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000 creation on your own, 190 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:28.000 I definitely, like, have my hard hat on and my little 191 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.000 shovel. Yeah. 192 00:31:31.000 --> 00:32:10.000 Yeah. I would say I definitely. There's. I guess, like. And I'm so blessed for these three men and their influence on me, but Tony Testa, Ryan Heffington, and Stephen Galloway have been the three men in my more mature life as a dancer. I mean, I met Heffington and Tesla when I was early 20s, so that was, you know, still pretty young. But those have been the folks that have been printed the most. The most on. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, definitely digging from. From Tony, I'd say I definitely feel that. Yeah. The dig I'm trying to think of, 193 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:19.000 I think I might be a roller. I think I, like, grab and roll and then push around. And I, like. I'm curious about what's under things. 194 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.000 Crafter. Yeah. 195 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 196 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.000 I 197 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.000 might chisel, too. 198 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.000 I 199 00:32:24.000 --> 00:33:03.000 think, like, I'm. I'm less of a what's in there, like, deep down and more of a. Like, okay, let's chip away at what's in front of me. I don't. Yeah. I. I think I dig deep for feelings, which is where I unlock a lot of my creative power. I think just comes from, like, feelings. But I. But I do think I roll around ideas a lot. I'm gonna. I'm gonna push back on this. I'm gonna pull a little bit this way. I'm curious about what's underneath that, but I don't think I'm a digger. Would you say that I'm a digger? Yeah. I'm not a digger. 200 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.000 Digging also requires being in the dark, and 201 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.000 I think 202 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.000 there's. There's something there of kind of the 203 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.000 possibility 204 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:20.000 and the curiosity. And I kind of intuitively am just like, here to here. And I will keep connecting dots and maybe a dot connector. Like, I always. 205 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.000 There we go. 206 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:28.000 Yeah. Curator. When people Are solving a case. I was always obsessed with those with 207 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.000 the yarn line between the pins 208 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:32.000 and photos and 209 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.000 text. A headshot. Give me a little, like, 210 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:40.000 sample of skin. Like, give me all the textures on the board and 211 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.000 baggy. Yeah. Baggies with evidence. Newspaper clippings. Yes. 212 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.000 Coordinates. 213 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.000 That's gorgeous. 214 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.000 Yeah. 215 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.000 That's the way that you make is by connecting. 216 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:54.000 What is it? Cartology when you're making maps. 217 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.000

Cartography. 218 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.000 Cartography, yes. Yeah. Maybe something along that line. 219 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000 Gorgeous. 220 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:55.000 But I love Dig too, that it's earthy. And I think something that is beautiful about working with male energies is that they tend to come from the physical space first and foremost. And I found less when I'm making. But when I've assisted other women who are also brilliant, they come from a very place that's up here. And I think leading with physicality and again, having that plug in. When a woman is in her body, we are most creative, open, empowered. And so I think that when done correctly, the play of energies and of polarities can be really beautiful. And I think that's when the partnership of. I guess we're thinking of like, yeah, just proto. What's not prototype. 221 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 222 00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:07.000 Archetypes versus. Versus, like being a man or a woman. I think it's more energetic archetypes that those can work hand in hand and create something beautiful. 223 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:18.000 Nice. I love this thought of being in your body enough that you could decide with which part you want to lead. 224 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.000 If 225 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:37.000 you want to be leading with heart, if you want to be leading with cerebral, if you want to be leading with power or mechanics or athleticism first, to have the option to do any of those, to be at the command center of that is very, very powerful. 226 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:56.000 It's the command center. It's also like the spiritual command center, I think is through embodiment. So I think in order to get those sort of influences or just extensions of like, what you're trying to excavate, like, the embodiment part has to be fully 227 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:48.000 alive. I think think I've been going into, like, the gym spaces, fitness spaces, we'll call them, without a lot of my emotional intelligence. What I unlocked today. And I got to. I have to give my coach credit for this because I said the sentences in my mind are not getting me that end result. And he was like, say more about the sentences. And I was like, oh, I think sentences when I'm working out, I don't think inhale, exhale, kick. I think, throw that shit away. I think, push through. I think, like, there are sentences not Always complex sentences, tasks 228 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:50.000 like. 229 00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:01.000 Yes. Tasks or cues. But usually emotionally charged. Like if I'm doing a push up. Not to get crazy, but I'm thinking, get off of me. Like, get off of me. 230 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:36.000 Wait. I love that we all need to practice that vocal exercise. When I was in my vocal musical theater bag from Bob Garrett, Shout out Bob Industry. Yeah. Bless his soul. But there's one that's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I just walking through it. But the last one is

no. And I will do this vocal exercise. It's 15 minutes long, but I will do that. And during the No. I practice how. No, no, no. Because I didn't have that in my body. It's so simple. But I didn't have that 231 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000 all the Yes. I had that 232 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:39.000 in 233 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.000 yes. Not much. No. 234 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:56.000 Yeah. Or I had the okay, but what is that I needed the firm. No. And especially going to work. Unfortunately, fortunately we just have to be equipped for whatever. Learn some crazy ways that I need to be equipped. Yeah. Never again. 235 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:02.000 Yeah. Whether it be with shoes in the back or with. Or with sentences in your mind. 236 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.000 Yeah. And you're like, get the fuck off. Energy. 237 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:40.000 Get off. Yeah. So that helps like physically and emotionally for me to get stronger, to get through an exercise and to. I don't know, I'm gonna like segue here and hope to wrap this up. Andy Blankenbuehler is a dear friend of mine and brilliant choreographer. He talked to me once about how he found it really hard to get warm for a show. When you're doing 10 shows a week on Broadway, your body wants to chill. Literally. You mentioned it like when you're talking about gyro. I think kind of sort of your body wants to do the easiest thing. 238 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:41.000 Self sufficient. 239 00:38:41.000 --> 00:39:01.000 Yeah. The most efficient thing. And we're asking it to do 10 shows a week of crazy stuff. So there is some mental gymnastics involved. And he told me that he had to start acting his warm up. He had to be in character like acting his warm up or he wouldn't get warm. 240 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:03.000 Yeah. 241 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:42.000 Energy body. So I think what I learned today from my coach, whose name is Aaron and I will definitely tag in this episode that I have been turning off my sentences when I go into the gym. A lot of the time I'm just saying pull up. And even in my push ups, sometimes I get lazy and I'm just like. And 1 and 2 and 3, those are the sentences. But when I'm thinking, get off me. Or when I'm thinking look out. Or when I'm thinking, like, truly the reason why I want to be able to do pull ups is so that maybe I could drum. I could jump from one tree house to another. 242 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:48.000 That's the mom lifting the car when the baby's about to get hit. That's that energy where it's coming from something else. 243 00:39:48.000 --> 00:40:48.000 It's coming from something else. And there is a degree to which you cannot fake that adrenaline. But there is also a degree to which you can. I have been at what I thought was maxed out, and my coach, Jason Bonner, my friend from the JT days, will say, what are you going to do with those last three reps? You just going to leave them there? And I'm like, no, Jason, I'm maxed out. And he's like, no, you're not. You just

don't know where to pull them from yet. And so sentences is where I pull them from. Okay. I want to talk about your art really fast. And I want to talk specifically about the art that I just watched. I hadn't seen Spaghetti and Riley, my dear friend and assistant and podcast editor is in this film and showed it and showed it to me before you came over. And so I would have watched it five times in a row because I was that wrapped by it and I. And. And it. There's so much to see. It's a very full frame almost all of the time. And so I. I wanted to look at everything. I want to watch it eight times. I don't know if that was part of your objective. 244 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000 Yes, it was. 245 00:40:49.000 --> 00:41:17.000 Okay, cool. Well accomplished. I'm so curious to hear what you were exploring with that because. Yeah, my favorite thing about it is like, oh, I know this space, but I've never seen it this way. And that's different. And. Oh, that's different. Oh, I didn't see this going there. And it was truly. Every frame is beautiful and not easy to shot. It's very. Yeah. I have questions about the technical parts of it. 246 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:36.000 Yeah. I have to give flowers to amazing DP Ian Code. Who he was my collaborator for Smokestack Lightning. And a lot of my film I'm in development for now, which I thought shot three years ago, and it's getting ready to be birthed into the world. He also shot that, so he's been an amazing teacher, amazing collaborator. And 247 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:39.000 just build. Keep talking, 248 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:40.000 do your 249 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.000 thing. I looked right at her after I did that. Okay. Keep guys so tied. I sure it's gonna be fun. Go ahead. 250 00:41:45.000 --> 00:42:30.000 Lesley adds to it. Yeah. Spaghetti it. The movie theater as a stage that was just by. Not convenience, but the resources I had. My dad's cousin, ex Long beach homicide detective from the 80s and 90s, like the stories this man has. And he's also a theater nerd. He is now Mr. Von Trapp in Sound of Music in plays, and just a bright soul that has a handlebar mustache and a lot of swag. But he was managing this space in Long beach, and that's where I shot Smokestack. It's the same. 251 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's beautiful. 252 00:42:32.000 --> 00:43:30.000 So the theater, I really wanted to explore this idea of many bodies en masse and just this movement. I did not want it to feel like choreography. Every time I thought to make something of that ilk, I kept coming back to my true intention, which was human gesture, which was coincidence of people being in space together and doing things at the same time, or people from different walks of life having similar physicality. And I wanted to sort of push. Push that into the most extreme. So instead of just everyday folks, they are my imaginary friends and very fantastical. So, yeah, the theater was a beautiful container. Obviously, the frame could be this. This perfect kind of square situation. And it was all about patterns and creating a 90s screensaver and seeing what routine socialization looks like as choreography. 253 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.000 Cool. 254 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:48.000 And I just happened to get all my homies, including my parents and my grandma and cousin. Tim was in it for a little bit. He didn't make the full thing, but he had a bounce. But he was sitting there at the beginning of the shoot day, bless his heart. For real. So, yeah, 255 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000 Yeah, I saw some good friends in there. Good faces. Good faces. 256 00:43:53.000 --> 00:44:15.000 Yeah. But what do dancers look like? And the most. You know, dancers are the most physical, intelligent, physically intelligent beings. And so I just wanted them to kind of do their thing. And I would have various degrees of tasks and how to turn up the dial on that or turn it down. But I really wanted it to be this oner that could be on loop. 257 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.000 Yeah. 258 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.000 Forever. Is 259 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:18.000 that what you mean by 90 screensaver? 260 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.000 Yeah. 261 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:30.000 Because there were also some movement patterns that did feel like that Windows Desktop thing or Media Player. Windows Media Player. Did you have that? God dog. That was the coolest thing. 262 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.000 That was fascinating. It was mind blowing. 263 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.000 It was mind blowing. 264 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:48.000 Our brain. Our braids hadn't rotted by that point. So things like that was like, oh, my gosh, Duck Hunt in Super Mario blowing my mind. And now I'm like, 265 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:53.000 I got a computer so that I could watch his screensaver. 266 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.000 That is honestly entertainment right there. I always. 267 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.000 Media Player. Oh, My God, I'm crying. 268 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:42.000 There's something about how over stimulated we are. And as much as spaghetti is like holy, there's so much to say. See, I think in the simplicity and the I can just sit and observe. I hope that there's an experience that's not crazy and that you can get transported. And that was very much my intention too. There's so many amazing makers who do like a 1E and a TUI so well and all of that. And I'll leave that to them. That's not what was fooling me for this project. It was to really stay true to my intention, my research, which was pattern making and gestures. 269 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.000 Nice. Human 270 00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:44.000 gestures. 271 00:45:43.000 --> 00:46:04.000 Nice. I just had Nathan, Nathan Kim on and we talked a little bit about Spider Man. Sweet soul, bright mind. And I told him about this idea that I had at the back of a plane that was going through turbulence, which was I could choreograph a plane crash on dancers. Easily,

easily. 272 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.000 That just terrified me. 273 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:16.000 It's frightening, right? But that's all it is, is just everybody doing the same thing at the same time. Like I looked down the aisle and just everybody's heads were doing exactly the same thing. 274 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.000 Spaghetti too. 275 00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:47.000 Yeah, I, I, I felt kindred in that I really, I really did think it was beautiful and, and such a cool reversal of perspective. Because we all know what it feels like to look at a screen but we don't know what it feels like for the screen to look back at us. And a majority of this film is the screen's pov. And I just also, that felt very, it made me not human in that way. I was like, oh, I'm the screen. 276 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:48.000 Oh, that's an interesting. 277 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.000 Yeah, it shifted my viewers perspective. 278 00:46:51.000 --> 00:47:09.000 Yeah. So I think that's why, and there's something where when I was showing spaghetti to a large group for the first time, it felt kind of like spiritual where having the film be viewed. Oh, excuse me. A large group watching the large group that's on 279 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.000 a, on a screen. That's my purest 280 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:34.000 intention to have it be a mirror rather than a screen. So it feels like that collective experience is on both sides and yeah, you can really find yourself within it. But I love the soul experience is cool. But my artist's choice would be to have the viewing experience be en masse, which I think there's going to be more opportunities coming soon. Yes. 281 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.000 Because you won an award for this film, right? 282 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.000 I sure did. 283 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.000 And does that come with more opportunities for the film or more opportunities for you? Obviously we love winning awards. It helps. 284 00:47:44.000 --> 00:48:10.000 Yeah. I think that was a applied. I took upon myself because I was on this job and. And I was movement directing. It was a campaign great. But the. They really wanted movement, of course. But they didn't know what they were doing. And I had researched them because every job I go on, I research everyone involved, the who's who. And these directors had won that award. And so. 285 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.000 Which is Young Directors. The 286 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.000 Cannes line. Young Director Award. Yeah. And Spaghetti won it for video art. 287 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:17.000 Nice. People 288 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:33.000 might sort of like, I wanted to just go for it myself for this project because I believed in it. But it also was. I believe dancers can do anything. And I was like, if these folks won this award, I'm submitting this, and I'm gonna go for it 289 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:38.000 too. Yes. Charissa, that's beautiful. I'm obsessed with that 290 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:50.000 because we're amazing, and we know. We know how to get things done and also get things done while treating people with respect and, you know, just enjoying ourselves and creating something excellent. So 291 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:56.000 thank you for being an example of using competitive nature to your advantage and to the advantage of dance. 292 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:04.000 I had to own it because I was always that person growing up, like, I'm not competitive and I'm my mother's daughter. Like, she was a D1 athlete in mini 293 00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:09.000 sport. You're competitive. 294 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:19.000 If I see it and I know, I. I just will know in my bones, like, this. This is supposed to happen and to just go for it. So I had that reaction for this, and so 295 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.000 that's epic. 296 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:21.000 How to do it. 297 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:26.000 Is there anything that is pulling you right now? What do you feel like you have to do right now? 298 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:53.000 I really want to create this project or get. It's already created this film, but it's kind of developing and more so an installation direction where I don't necessarily want it to be experienced like my other works as a standalone film. I want it to be a whole world that the audience can be immersed in and explore. 299 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.000 This sounds big. 300 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.000 Yeah. 301 00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.000 You know, they say that in order to make a pumpkin. Apple pie. Pumpkin pie. 302 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.000 Oh. Both in 303 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:23.000 order to make in or in order to make a pie. Insert whatever rhubarb. Fill in the blanks for you. In order to make a pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. If it's going to be from scratch, then it has to be from this, which means you have to make the that. Which means you have to make the that. Which means you have to make the that. And not to overwhelm you. But when you're talking about World 304 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:24.000 one, 305 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:51.000 when you're talking about universe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're talking about world building, that's, that's, that's what it is. You're considering, you're considering all the pieces. And that is why this entertainment art industry place is not a one man band type of town. It's based on collaboration. It is really takes the team because you can't have, you can't create the universe yourself in this one life. 306 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.000 Yeah, girl, I tried like, 307 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:55.000 yeah, 308 00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:55.000 I think that's what kind of led to creative exhaustion. I also, in that time that I was going for the award and creating Spaghetti, that was 2024 and that was my creative rampage year where I just had so much fire. I also something crazy happened on set when I was a performer that I just had this pillar and calling within me to

create the rooms that I'd want to be in and be safe in. And so that was my year of just creating all these works mostly with enormous cast of dancers and artists. And yeah, I had so many amazing collaborators. But I think there was this. I had to learn. Oh, this role could actually be filled by a human instead of me trying to do it or even editing. I really love editing. I don't like the technical side, but I know what I want visually with music, with 309 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:56.000 rhythmically, 310 00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:31.000 rhythmically font, like all of it I want my hands on. But I find it's so awesome and Riley is an amazing collaborator in the editing space to have that and not do that myself because it. I get so locked in the world and I don't necessarily want to do that. I think also going back to our kind of feminine way of doing things, there's a birthing process, I feel, where you just have to have space and allowance and when you have that space and allowance, you can feel supported rather than like manning your way through. And I didn't even mean to say manning, but it makes sense 311 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:32.000 not know. 312 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:51.000 Yeah, it makes sense. So I feel so much freedom with collaboration and with trusting the people around me. And I feel more inspired and less like I was thinking, I don't want to see another BTS photo of myself looking haggard as fuck. I want to feel, I want to feel 313 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.000 like free pregnant 314 00:52:53.000 --> 00:53:04.000 do from like being around and creating and, and just. Yeah, being in my body and not feeling just like adrenal fatigue and. 315 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:11.000 Okay, so that was your art. Your. So your art rampage year led to the burnout or your rampage year came after your burnout 316 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:20.000 led to. I think may, may have come from a performance. Burnout led to a creative Burnout led to. I 317 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:42.000 see full time performance entity or performance incident happens. You're like, okay, I'm going to make the spaces that I wish that I was working in. And then you did. You created those spaces. Then creative burnout happens. And how did you find yourself moving through and out of that? 318 00:53:42.000 --> 00:54:14.000 Yeah, I mean, one more thing to plug. It was also self producing right now, which I think we should all do it. It's such an amazing thing to self produce your own project. It is so hard, but it is so rewarding. You learn a lot. Your business side. I've always, I think as dancers we can be more business oriented and how we talk about our art and how we show up. And I'm learning every day how to be better about that from folks like yourself, from peers that I just admire the 319 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.000 way you walk the talk 320 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:22.000 and from doing it. Yeah. So I'm. I went on a full tangent. 321 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:27.000 Self producing, you think people ought to do it, but that maybe is what led to the burnout. 322 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:29.000 Oh, yes. And then how to get out of it. 323 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:31.000 Yeah. How did you move through that? Yeah, 324 00:54:31.000 --> 00:55:15.000 I think that was really when I was starting to have kind of thoughtful awareness about what it means to be a feminine leader and how to cultivate that. I think we're in the rise of that collectively and as a society. But in my own universe, how to do that for myself and feel supported. And I have a lot of beautiful folks. I'm really big into energetic practices, prayer practices and ways to refill my cup in a way that's from the soul and not from like, I need validation. That stuff is. Does not fuel me whatsoever. It is a quarter in the piggy bank. But I'm not full and I'm not like 325 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:16.000 juiced or charged. Or 326 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:24.000 charged. Yeah. So that has been huge for me. And yeah, that was also when I started kind of going on this. Rebuild my 327 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.000 physical body. 328 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:27.000 Yeah. 329 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:43.000 I'm seeing that as a through line. Like invest in self, pour into self. And that might mean a spinal roll down for 45 minutes. Or that might mean laying on a hard surface with hand to belly breathing. That might mean 330 00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:44.000 talking with your homies. 331 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:59.000 That might mean talking with your homies. That might mean doing some pushups with some sentences behind them. But one of the main reasons I wanted to certify as a coach is to help people get through burnout. I know there's a lot we can do to avoid it, 332 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:00.000 but 333 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:04.000 a lot of, a lot of us are because of the nature of what lights us up. 334 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:05.000 I was gonna 335 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.000 say we will get to 336 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.000 it. Like, 337 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:58.000 if you love this, if it lights you up, you will burn out at it, because there's enough opportunity to always be doing something that lights you up, that you will get to a point where you're dim, where your light is. Is. Is flickering. So. And. And in my journey with strength, I definitely feel energized by. Because of that work. But I think, yeah, thank you for being an example of filling and pouring in equal parts or in different chapters. And it's good to remember, it's good to see it on people, how all of those chapters are essential, how all of those chapters lead to the next one. Our research for the next place that you're going, it's not the end, it's 338 00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:59.000 not 339 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:00.000 the result, 340 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:01.000 but 341 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.000 it's the pathway through to the next place. 342 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:03.000 Yeah. 343 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:05.000

And, man, I love tools. I just love tools. 344 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:10.000 I love them too. So heavy. I'm like, hey, 345 00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:16.000 okay, is there a tool in that toolbox that you use every single day? What is the tool you use every 346 00:57:16.000 --> 00:58:13.000 day? Shout out to you. Breath work has been huge. I also, at the end of last year, in December, I started a Reiki journey. And tapping into that of just kind of clearing out my system. And, you know, I. I want to get to a place where practicing on others and supporting others feels like a calling. But honestly, I wanted to explore it because something told me to do it, and I'm such a sponge. And I realize how much I've been doing, taking on my whole life, and how at the end of the day or starting the day to just clear. To kind of get into my own. My own frequency, my own antennas up. Yeah. I would say like a Reiki practice and a prayer practice, for sure, of just centering and getting very clear about what my purpose is for the day and for the season and whatever. 347 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:14.000 Lovely, my friend. 348 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:15.000 Thank you. Yeah. 349 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:34.000 Question from Widomcom, AKA Today. This question comes from Riley Higgins, seated in that chair over there. Do you think of yourself as being a person who uses comedy in dance deliberately and. Or what is the role of comedy and humor in your process? 350 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:49.000 What's immediately coming to mind is that comedy is so simpatico with dance in terms of its rhythm. Rhythm is kind of what I see as being the driving force of both 351 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.000 tension release. This part. This part. Payoff. 352 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:59.000 Yeah. And also, I just like some weird. So maybe that's what people find humorous, and I just lean into that 353 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:00.000 otherness. 354 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:19.000 Yeah. I think with spaghetti especially, it was like, I'm just gonna let my freak flag fly, and it's funny. I think when we get so spicy specific with a reference or something obscure, that's when people really feel connected because they're like, me too. 355 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:20.000 Totally. 356 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.000 So 357 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.000 totally. 358 00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:50.000 Maybe some of those moments. I also think music can be humorous too. I don't know. Yeah, that's not something I'm actively thinking about. But I think when. When something feels like it has that energy, I definitely am like, okay, there's something here. There's something truthful here because it's letting out an emotion that maybe we weren't searching for, but we got. And so that's a real moment. And keep that 359 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:56.000 nice. Great answer. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. And thank you for being here and sharing your beautiful self 360 00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:57.000 and 361 00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:55.000 insights in your. Your process and where you're at right now. You are one of the people that when I see out in the world, I'm like, dang, I want to talk to you deeply. And this is not the environment for that. Like we're at a screening, we're at a party or we're at another a dance thing where there's something happening. It's loud. I can't. And so it's really nice to get to go to dig a little bit deeper to tunnel with you. And I hope we get more opportunities to do this. Let's make more opportunities to do this. We could go for a ride and in. Thank you. I feel like we just scratched the surface of the iceberg. I would love for let's do a gyro class. Let's come back. Let's talk about bodies and tuning in to our feminine energy and then being at the command center of. Of. Of of what force is leading and how we are clearing. Yeah. I'm so interested. It's very cool that I had that experience with the coach guy this morning before this because truly not 362 01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:56.000 a coincidence. 363 01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:00.000 Yeah, it's interesting. 364 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.000 I love that. Yeah. One on one is I 365 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.000 should lay down. Totally. 366 01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.000 And now we lay. Crumble to 367 01:01:08.000 --> 01:02:05.000 the ground. Perfect. Perfect. Bye. Listener viewer thanks for being here. Click the bell for notifications. Subscribe Leave a Review A rating Keep it funky. Bye. I think that's the first time a guest is exit rolled out. Literally roll out. Dance is produced by me with the help of many big big, big, big. Love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Music is by Max Winnie. Logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. Our communications team consists of Ori Vajadares and Sydney Richardson and we've got extra help from LMU intern Carly Clayton. If you're digging the podcast, please leave a review or rating. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit danceplus podcast.com if you're curious to know more about me and all the stuff I do outside of the podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.