บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Creageivity 40 - with Actor / Director / Academic Mick Greer

there. 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:06.800 And then we also lived in Singapore through the services, and I travelled a lot more widely when I started doing TEFL. 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.839 Came to Portugal and um struck gold, really. 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:11.040 I'm incredibly lucky. 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.079 TEFL, that's a type of frying pan, isn't it? 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:14.879 It is, it is. 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.759 It's the kind of teaching you do that it doesn't stick. 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.639 You can teach the same lesson every week, basically. 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:22.639 Teaching English as a foreign language. 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:23.120 Am I right? 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:24.959 That's right, teaching English as a foreign language. 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.240 And I taught in England in an English school and enjoyed it. 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:30.879 But it was the Thatcher Years and Cuts, etc. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:31.279 etc. 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:35.040 And I never really considered myself a very political animal. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.920 But I got a bit depressed by the state of England. 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:39.199 So I thought, well, I'll try this. 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:43.600 I'll try this TEFL thing, you know, for a year or a couple of years, and then I'll come back. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.920 And I first went off to Greece and enjoyed it, and then went to Portugal, and that was it. 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:54.879 And this was in the late 1980s, where it was a real boom of teaching English a foreign language. 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:55.279 Yeah. 00:05:55.519 --> 00:06:01.839 You could basically um just stand on a street corner and speak English, yeah, and uh someone would give you a job. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.399 I think it's it's it's changed considerably when I came to Portugal talking to people. 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:08.800 Oh, you speak English, wonderful, fantastic. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.439 Now it's very much what you don't speak English? 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:12.879 It really has turned around. 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.160 Luckily, there's still work for old fogies like me. 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:22.160 It's basically the the story, and it's fantastic to have experiences, various cultures. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.319 It's wonderful, and it continues to be true. 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.759 Adrienne mentioned the Lisbon Theatre Company. 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:35.839 Adrien was at some point a member, and we've also had Jonathan Wakeman and Amanda Booth as guests on this show. 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.040 So you're the third Lisbon players person. 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:45.040 Well, like Adrienne, Jonathan and uh Amanda or Mandy, as we uh we call her, uh dear friends. 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:46.000 We we worked together. 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:50.959 I mean, Adrienne was a major member of the Lisbon players in lots of shows. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:57.040 By the way, folks, Adrienne was

looking suitably modest to hear that she was a major player. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:58.000 No, I'm not. 00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:58.879 It's the truth. 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:00.160 I was the star. 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:06.720 I controlled the dressing room and the stage, and they've never been the same since I left. 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.319 Actually, I managed to get a screenshot of Adrienne when Harlan was saying that. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.639 So that'll be that'll be that'll be made available. 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.079 T-shirts and mugs and various other merchandising. 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.399 I'm really keen to pursue the Joyce connection. 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:27.439 So you have parents who were Irish, and you have a PhD based on Joyce. 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:29.199 Yeah, Joyce and theatre. 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:34.160 Joyce has been part of my artistic and academic life for all for years. 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:38.000 Um, and he's certainly the the author who's influenced me most. 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:43.439 I'm a I'm a fan rather than an expert to be on, to be honest. 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:55.600 But uh yeah, I mean the the the the PhD, uh Joyce wanted to be the new Ibsen and the new Gerhard Hauptmann as a as a young man, and uh definitely saw himself as a as a playwright, and it didn't really come off. 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.560 He tried a few things. 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:04.720 He he wrote a play that he sent to William Archer, who was Ibsen's English translator, and uh Archer kind of dismissed it and Joyce burnt it. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:14.160 And he he later wrote a play, his only published play called Exiles, which was very Ibsen-esque, and actually uh it's been given a bit of a bad press. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:22.720 There's an old literary Dublin joke about two guys are in the pub and they're looking at a guy looking very depressed over his Guinness. 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:28.000 And Seamus says to Paddy, believe it or not, that's what they were called, what's what's the matter? 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:30.000 What's the what's the problem with your man over there? 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.639 He said, Oh God, he's depressed as hell. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:40.240 He's trying to work on a dramatization of exiles, which is a little a little unfair, unfair, I think. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:41.840 But clever observation. 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.399 Yeah. 00:08:42.639 --> 00:09:05.039 Basically, what I was working on is how he incorporated drama into his prose, into his short stories, and and there's a there's a strong sort of dramatic theatricality to a lot of Joyce, including the the Circe chapter in Ulysses, which is written as a play, although it's completely unstageable, obviously, never wasn't intended to be staged, totally surreal, with bars of soap speaking and hundreds of seagulls appearing, etc., etc. 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:10.720 I think I was lucky with how I met Joyce because I met him through

theatre at Cambridge. 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:15.039 I'd done a show in 1982, Troilus and Cressida. 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:22.559 I was Ajax and the guy who now has begun to be very prominent from now on in my career, a guy called Paul O'Hanrahan. 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:24.480 No guesses where he comes from. 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:30.639 Um and he was Thersites, and they have a sort of a almost sort of Laurel and Hardy kind of knockabout relationship. 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.399 We actually got a nice review in it. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:33.440 It wasn't a great production. 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.720 Sorry, I'm digressing a bit, but a story that I find amusing. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:38.639 And it's the only review I can ever remember. 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:43.440 The Greek warriors and the Trojan warriors were all dressed in these little white jackets. 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:47.600 The Greeks had red collars, the Trojans had green collars. 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:57.120 And the review said, well, they looked more like Benny Hill Milkman than why Benny Hill milkman rather than any other kind of milkman, I don't know. 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:00.080 But anyway, but that's it's a review I remember. 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:04.639 Benny Hill, a very dodgy UK comedian of quite a few years ago. 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:10.240 Back in the 80s, I mean he'd done something called Ernie, rode the fastest milk cart in the West or something. 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:11.840 I don't know. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:12.639 Ernie. 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:14.720 I get the reference, yeah. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:21.840 It's not so often that you somehow connect James Joyce with Benny Hill, the UK comedian from the 70s. 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:32.480 Paul, who was playing Phocides, we really clicked and he said, Look, next year I want to do an adaptation of the Circe chapter, this chapter that's written as a play. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.000 I want to dramatize it. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.279 You know, would you be interested? 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:42.240 At that time, I'd read Dubliners, I'd read Portrait of the Artist as a young man, and I was sort of building up to reading Ulysses as people do. 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:46.159 I thought, okay, next summer, next summer, next summer, I'll go for Ulysses. 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:52.480 But I was lucky, the reason I say I was lucky, we approached it having to dramatise it, having to put it on stage. 00:10:52.720 --> 00:11:00.879 So there was no time for sort of awe or hero worship or oh my god, this is Ulysses, oh my god, oh my. 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:02.399 We just had to get on with it. 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:04.799 And so I got me straight into Joyce. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:07.200 Um, we did the adaptation, it went well. 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:12.799 We took it to Edinburgh, this is the summer of 1983, and it won a Edinburgh fringe first. 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.759 And actually, we're still working together. 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.080 We're going to be doing Bloomsday in Dublin on the 16th of June this year. 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:28.159 There's a group of us, you know, we should have more sense now at our age, but we're still we're still doing it, treading the streets of Dublin. 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.559 We're doing three street shows and then a show at Wynn's Hotel in Dublin. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.840 It's the only building mentioned both in Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake, if if you're ever in a quiz program. 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.240 Wow, that's a great trivia fact. 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.200 Could could win you that Ferrari or whatever. 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:43.840 Yeah. 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.000 Adrienne, what's Bloomsday? 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.440 Tell us what Bloomsday is. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:56.879 The whole of Ulysses is written about one day, the 16th of June, and Leopold Bloom's trajectory through Dublin. 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:09.279 Traditionally now, on the 16th of June every year, the book is read in sections following the trail through Dublin, which is outlined in the book. 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.840 And then in Lisbon, it's also done every year, isn't it, Mick? 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:14.000 Yes. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:15.360 In the Irish Centre. 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:17.440 And it's hugely popular. 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:27.360 And I tried to revitalize it in Lewis, which is a very literary town, when I came back from Portugal, and it was really hard work. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:33.279 People were not in tune with it because it still had that reputation of being a weighty tome. 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:39.759 And the great joy for me is watching people just falling off their chairs with laughter. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:44.320 It's such a rollicking, raunchy, fun piece of work. 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:50.960 I love it, and I think it's wonderful that you're going out there to Dublin, Mick, on the 16th of June. 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:55.120 I will sit with gritted teeth and think of you all having fun. 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.080 Read along with us or nip across, yes, yeah. 00:12:58.320 --> 00:12:59.200 You're more than welcome. 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.440 Dublin's not very far for you, Adrienne. 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:02.080 No, I know. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.200 Yeah, well, I'll have to reflect on that. 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.039 Mick, let me test your PhD type knowledge of James Joyce. 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.360 I think you'll find this question very easy. 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.879 What's Ulysses got to do with Hungary, which is where I live. 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:23.519 Well, um, Leopold Bloom's father is supposed to have come from Hungary, from Zom Zombatley. 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:25.519 I um the pronunciation I'm sure is not correct. 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:26.639 Sombathe. 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:28.399 Sombathe, Sombathe. 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.240 He loved it because it sounded

like somebody. 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:30.559 Uh-huh. 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:38.559 And there's a wonderful Joyce statue, and there's a plaque where the Bloom family supposedly came all invented, you know. 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.279 But it's amazing how this novel has sort of taken on a life of its own. 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:49.600 I mean, lots of authors are celebrated around the world, but I don't know of anything that's quite the same as Bloomsday. 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:50.000 Yeah. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:56.960 And also the fact that it has, even though it doesn't have chapter headings, the chapters are known as episode from the Odyssey. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.600 And people refer, you know, people talk about the Telemachus chapter or the Circe chapter. 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.919 And again, I don't know any other novel that's had that kind of effect. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:12.879 People should be, oh, the the so-and-so chapter, the this, you know, the so-and-so chapter of Anna Karenina or the so-and-so chapter of the Magic Mountain. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.360 Um, yes, all wonderful books, but it's Ulysses has gone a step further. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:19.679 Even people who haven't read it know about it. 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:19.840 Yeah. 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.279 You get people, I mean, it's amazing. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:25.039 People in in in Dublin, you people come, oh yeah, Ulysses, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.600 Have you read it? 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:26.399 Oh, so you've read it. 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:27.120 Oh, I've never read it. 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:27.840 Don't need to read it. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:28.399 We know it. 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:28.879 We know it. 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.840 It's almost like it becomes part of the Dublin DNA in a way. 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.519 And it's just, as Adriane was saying, it's an unofficial public holiday. 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:46.240 You know, Dublin kind of stops, and anyone, I mean, there are professional artists who do it, there are people like us who come over, and then they're just your ordinary Dubliner who just wants to dress up. 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:51.039 People dress up uh you know uh as as the characters and just read a bit or just wander around. 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:55.039 It's it's wonderful, it's a fantastic sort of democratic day. 00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:01.519 You know, all this sort of idea of, as Adrienne was saying, this idea of Ulysses as the weighty tome is thrown out the window. 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:03.919 I'm going to be a show-off now. 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:05.440 Rare, I know. 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:06.960 Bear with me. 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:12.799 I just happened to be in LA and they were doing it there in LA in a bar. 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.960 But they were all off book and they were all professional actors. 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:26.960 And there was this wonderful, you know, Gertie, this chapter where

Bloom is actually watching this woman on the backdrop of fireworks, but he's actually masturbating. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:36.639 He does it very subtly in the text, but they actually had this guy standing next to this woman who was playing Gertie, just sort of fiddling around under this over. 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.759 I mean, it was absolutely glorious. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.080 People were shrieking with laughter. 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:45.279 I just thought this is just universal, this stuff. 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:47.200 It just works everywhere. 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:47.840 It's great. 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.639 It's life, you know, everything, life is there. 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:51.200 Absolutely. 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.120 I mean, was it Johnson said who's tired of London is tired of life. 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.519 You know, if you're tired of Ulysses, you're tired of life. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.879 And everything's in them, and there is Bloom masturbating. 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:02.320 And it makes sense. 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:17.600 Uh, in an earlier chapter, he goes to the toilet, and there was a guy called Senator David Norris, who is a sort of Joyce fan and specialist, and he said, Fantastic, Ulysses has ended 300 years of literary constipation. 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:28.799 Nobody went for a good crap in books, you know, and he talks it through and he's reading a magazine and he rips the pages out to wipe his bottom, and it's just life. 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:36.399 Everything is there from the most basic to then Stephen's poetic flights of fancy, the full range of human experience. 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:39.679 Joyce said, you know, people don't understand. 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.120 It's supposed to be a funny book. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:48.159 I mean, that's not a direct quotation, but basically, he would complain that people didn't have the reaction that Adrienne has been describing. 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:48.879 He would love that. 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:53.039 Hopefully he's looking down on it, or perhaps looking up, I don't know. 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:53.840 Who knows? 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:55.440 And enjoying that. 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.919 Finally, finally, people have got it. 00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.440 No, I'd love to have seen that. 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.080 Yeah. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:06.640 We have here three enthusiasts for Joyce, specifically called Ulysses. 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.319 And by the way, Mick, congratulations on your Sans Barting knowledge. 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.119 I was pretty sure you'd be aware of that story. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.240 Do you know why Virag is the name of Bloom's father? 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:17.599 Is it something to do with flower? 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.799 Is it Hungarian for Bloom's? 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.880 Hungarian for flower or for Bloom. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.240 So the whole thing goes round in another circle

of cleverness. 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:29.599 There's um a European organization that promotes Irish language and culture. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.279 And luckily they they sent me to Budapest in 2021. 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:44.160 And I actually did the Bloomsday breakfast at the ambassador's residence in Budapest, and then I went to Sombath and did a show there, like a sort of a 20-minute thing right in front of the house. 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:45.119 And it was wonderful. 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:46.559 And the enthusiasm was lovely. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.079 On the poster, instead of Mick Greer, I was Nick Green. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.599 So I thought it was quite a good idea in case it was a disaster. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:55.680 So no, no, it wasn't me. 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:56.720 It couldn't be Trace. 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.880 That fella Nick guy, whoa, rubbish. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.160 But it was wonderful, lovely. 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.920 And the enthusiasm and the knowledge as well, people were really, really into it. 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.200 I was amazed. 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:12.400 We've been talking about Ulysses, but Finnegan's Wake is possibly a whole other kettle of fish. 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.920 And you're somewhat a specialist in Finnegan's Wake. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.000 I don't know if anyone's a specialist in Finnegan's Wake. 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.200 I'm I'm again I'm an enthusiastic and a and a fan. 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:33.119 Again, with the same group of friends after Cersei, we went to Finnegan's Wake, which is divided into four books, and we adapted the first book of Finnegan's Wake, which again went to Edinburgh and was successful. 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.200 That was something called Nightform. 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:43.200 Ulysses is kind of the book of the day, although there are nighttime scenes and it finishes what just after three o'clock in the morning or something. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:47.359 But Finnegan's Wake is definitely the book of the night, the book of the dark. 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.039 It's a a dream that someone or some people are having. 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:52.480 We're not quite sure. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.440 So everything is dream convoluted, nothing quite makes sense. 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.440 He plays with words, language, words dissolve. 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:09.440 It's very much like the Lewis Carroll, the you know, Humpty Dumpty portmanteau words where he he creates uh a new language. 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.680 And at one point, people said that he uses 65 different languages. 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:18.160 It's its own language, and people talk about translating Finnegan's Wake. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.319 And what are you translating it from? 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.480 Let alone what are you translating it into? 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:27.039 But yes, he plays with consciousness, language, love, life, everything. 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:33.359 And it's it's this sort of dream, surreal mixture of things blur as people sleep. 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.000 It's a wonderful thing, but it it does yes, you're right. 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.160 I mean it has a sort of a formidable reputation. 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:38.480 Yeah. 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:43.759 For what it's worth, instead of reading it, it's better to listen to it, I think. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000 It suddenly becomes far more approachable, I'd say, when you hear it. 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:54.559 Treat it as music almost, as poetry, something to hear, and everyone makes their own sense of it. 00:19:54.799 --> 00:20:03.759 If you open it at page one and start reading it, looking for a conventional narrative, a conventional novel, conventional clarity, then you're probably not going to get very far. 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:09.200 If you just surrender to it and say, okay, this is like nothing else I've ever experienced in literature. 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.519 And I'm gonna I'm gonna read it out loud. 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:11.680 Yeah. 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:12.720 Here I am in my own room. 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:15.839 I'm just gonna read it out loud to myself, and suddenly it comes to life. 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.200 There are still passages, you know. 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.200 You think, well, what for God's sake, Joyce? 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:19.920 What are you doing? 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:20.640 What are you doing? 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:28.559 And his collaborators got fed up with him, but because he worked with very various people who helped, and you know, they would have a line, and they'd say, What about this line? 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.039 And he said, No, no, no, too simple. 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.119 No, can't be simple, can't be that simple. 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:34.880 It drove people crazy. 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.680 This sounds like an ideal opportunity to hear a reading from Finnegan's Wake. 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.240 Absolutely. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.640 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.920 Are you up for it, Mick? 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.200 I'll certainly have a go. 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:48.880 By chance, I happen to I happen to have the ending extraordinary, isn't it? 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:49.680 Yeah. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.119 Serendipity. 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:51.680 Yeah. 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:54.799 Actually, serendipity is a good word for Finnegan's Wake, I think. 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:56.000 Absolutely. 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.759 It's uh a shortened version of the final section of Finnegan's Wake. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.079 It's about a family and their relationships. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.200 And here, as in Ulysses, Joyce gives a woman the last word. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:13.279 You know, Molly finishes Ulysses after all these foolish men have done their shenanigans around Dublin. 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.039

The last word is with the woman. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.680 And again, he gives the woman the last word. 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:18.240 It's nice. 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:24.559 There's a line in Ulysses, it's a it's we should trust the women, because a woman always knows when to stop. 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.720 I don't know, Adrienne, that may or may not be true, but that's what that's what Joyce thought anyway. 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:30.480 Or the character in Ulysses thought. 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:35.200 But this is Anna Olivia Pluorabell, she's the wife and mother figure. 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.920 She's also symbolic of the river Lify, Anna Lifia. 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:53.119 And here she's an elderly lady, and as the river Lify starts as a young river springing from the hills of Dublin, it flows through Dublin and then slows down as it pours out into the sea. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.680 So she is dying. 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.759 This is her final speech, and in it she thinks about. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.799 Her husband, she thinks about her family, and she thinks about her daughter who is coming to replace her. 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:17.279 One of the things about Finnegan's Wake is that there's a lot about falling and rising, and every fall suggests a rising, every ending is a beginning, every death is a rebirth. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.839 It's very much this cyclical view. 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:26.160 The last line of the book is away, alone, alast along the. 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.079 It's an unfinished sentence. 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:29.519 But it is finished. 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:36.160 It's finished by the very first words, by the opening, which is river run past even Adams. 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.920 So really it's away, alone, alast along the river run past even Adam. 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:44.000 And that's what Joyce was interested in. 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.559 This cyclical nature that nothing ends. 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:51.359 Everything returns in echoes, which may be distorted echoes, but things go on. 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.559 So she or go, but her daughter will replace her. 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.559 And in a sense, be her rebirth. 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:58.480 So, anyway, this is the ending of it. 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.160 This is a woman flowing out into the sea, ending her life. 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:05.200 But she accepts it, she accepts the nature of things. 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.680 But you're changing a culture. 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.799 You're changing from me, I can feel. 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.440 Or is it me? 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:18.960 I'm getting mixed. 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:30.240 And she is coming, swimming in my hindmost, devil taking on me tail, just a whisk, brisk, sly, spry, spink, spank, sprint of a thing. 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.480 There's some air psaltering. 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.680 Salterella, come to her own. 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.519 Oh, for she'll be sweet for you as I was sweet when I came down out of me, mother. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.400 My great blue bedroom. 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:53.359 The air so quiet, scarce a cloud, in peace and silence. 00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.920 I could have stayed up there for always only. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.920 If something fails, first we feel, then we fall. 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:13.200 And let her reign now if she likes, gently or strongly as she likes. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.440 Anyway, let her reign. 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:17.440 For my time is come. 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:24.480 I done me best when I was let, thinking always, if I go, all goes. 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:30.960 A hundred cares, a tithe troubles, and is there one who understands me? 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.720 One in a thousands of years of the nights. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:51.440 Alanuvia ultrabelled to remind me of so soft this morning. 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.279 Ours. 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:59.680 Yes, carry me along, Teddy, like you'd done through the toy fair. 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:14.559 If I seen him bearing down on me now under widespread wings, like he'd come from archangels, I think I died down over his feet humbly, dumbly, only to wash up. 00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.200 Yes. 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:27.680 There's where we pass through grass, we wash the bush. 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:12.319 Away, alone, alas, alone, along the Thank you so much. 00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:13.759 Wow. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.559 I think you've proved your point there, mate. 00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:17.759 You need to hear it. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.359 You need to listen to it. 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:26.000 Someone might take it and read it in a completely different way, and you know, hoping it's uh but it's extraordinary. 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:26.960 Um it's extraordinary. 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:27.680 That was beautiful. 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:32.000 So yeah, as as Harlem was saying, I mean 17 years, it's absolutely extraordinary. 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:33.359 People thought he was mad. 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:35.759 Maybe he was. 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:45.440 I wonder if he was just uh, you know, in that sort of blanket term mad, but certainly he had the brain the size of a planet. 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:46.559 He must have done. 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.160 Where does this stuff come from? 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:48.480 Absolutely. 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.240 How does he weave it all together? 00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:57.440 Before we move on, I would like to just go back to Ulysses and the women in Ulysses. 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:05.279 As a woman, to read that was just so liberating because he's saying women have sexual fantasies. 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.640 You know, women enjoy sex, they have sensual bodies. 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.799 But I wonder, in your PhD land, what influence Nora Barnacle had? 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:18.240 Do you think

that he's brought her into that narrative? 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.599 Because they had a very unusual sex life, didn't they? 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.559 Explain Nora Barnacle, first of all, for our listeners. 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:26.799 Nora Barnacle was his wife. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.519 I mean, he eventually married her after they had children, quite near the end of end of his life. 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:38.079 And she she worked in a in a hotel called Finn's Hotel, and he met her and asked her out. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:50.079 And the story is, although this is debated in some quarters, the story is that they first went out on the 16th of June 1904, which is when Ulysses was set, Joyce being Joyce. 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:52.000 There are some disagreements about that. 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.240 But it's a good story, and I hope it's true. 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:59.359 She was from Galway, from that, especially in those days, kind of the middle of nowhere, really. 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.920 She'd come be sent into the city to earn her money. 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:07.119 She wasn't illiterate, but she didn't read, she wrote with difficulty, and it clicked. 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.720 And um, the story is I don't know whether I can say this, say this. 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.960 I know where you're going with this, Mick. 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:26.319 Apparently, towards the end of their first date, she unzipped his trousers and masturbated him, which he enjoyed at the time, and then, of course, then went back and thought, how did she know about that? 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:30.960 One of the driving forces of his work was this idea of jealousy. 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:32.240 He throve on that. 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:38.799 So he was continually fantasizing, I imagining Nora being unfaithful, which, as far as we know, she never was. 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:43.839 And there's a statement from Nora which says, Yo, Jim wants me to go with other men. 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:45.039 She called him Jim. 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.880 Jim wants me to go with other men so that he'll have something to write about. 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:54.079 Othello was a big feature of his sort of idea of jealousy. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.960 And then he just said to her, Okay, let's go off. 00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:58.720 He decided to leave Ireland, of course. 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:03.839 I mean, as famously, you know, he left Ireland and spent the rest of his life writing about nothing else. 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:15.839 And she went off with him to first to Italy and then around Paris, Switzerland, and you know, raised two kids, dealt with his alcoholism, his excent, let's call it eccentricities. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.160 An extraordinary, extraordinary woman. 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.279 Apparently, she never read any of his stuff or never read anyone else. 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:28.000 Again, I'm it's not an exact quotation, but it's something along the lines of, you know, what's the what's the point of reading anyone else when you're married to the biggest fish? 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:34.960 Um, not in those words, but but he he drew on and wanted her to tell him about how she felt during sex, etc. 00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:37.920 And he used a lot of her in Molly, apparently. 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:46.400 In 1912, he went back to Dublin for a while and actually started the first cinema in Dublin, which wasn't a success in the end. 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:54.400 But I mean, he wrote her letters, very explicit stuff about what he wanted to do, what he was imagining to do, and these letters, um, absolutely extraordinary. 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.519 And she she was, yeah, okay, Jim, whatever. 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.960 And she was a must have been an extraordinary woman. 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.559 Yeah, with a great name. 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:03.839 Yeah, absolutely. 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.960 Well, you know the story about Joyce's father. 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:15.359 When when Joyce's father heard her name, um, Barnacle is uh for those people who don't know, it's these little what limpets, these sort of shellfish that attach themselves. 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.799 So Joyce's father said, Barnacle, huh? 00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:20.480 She'll stick to him. 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.160 Ba-boom. 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:25.839 And she did. 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:26.160 Yeah. 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:27.200 And he to her. 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.000 And he to her. 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:36.160 Although I mean there are suggestions that that whether they just existed in his mind and his letters, or whether they actually happened again, there's debate. 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:40.960 You you kind of get the feeling that everything was source material for his writing. 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:42.960 We would talk about obsessive madness. 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.960 Yes, the work was the thing, and that everything you get the impression that everything he did. 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:47.920 How can I use this? 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:48.799 Where does this fit in? 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.599 I mean, it absolutely extraordinary. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:53.680 And he gathered this group around him. 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:54.960 Ridiculous thing. 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:58.720 I mean, there was a a nephew of someone, and he wanted to use Huckleberry Finn. 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:03.279 I mean, Huckleberry Finn, of course, plays with language as well, or with extraordinary use of language. 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:09.759 He wanted to use Huckleberry Finn or parts of Huckleberry Finn, the idea of Huckleberry Finn in Finnegan's wake, but couldn't be bothered to read it. 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.640 He also had had terrible eyesight towards the end of his life. 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.240 He he had great trouble reading. 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:26.640 So the story is um if I'm not

misremembering, he wrote to this nephew of a friend and said, Could you read Huckleberry Finn and send me the bits where you think he's most interesting linguistically, or words to that effect? 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:27.759 And the guy did. 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:28.240 Yeah. 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.599 I mean, extraordinary, you know, he had this effect on people. 00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:36.640 I mean, Buck Mulligan and Ulysses call Stephen, who is the Joyce figure, oh, impossible person. 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:36.960 Yeah. 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.119 And I think he must have been an impossible person. 00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.279 And yet there was this magnetism. 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.799 There was, I don't know whether people thought they were involved in some great quest. 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:45.759 They were, I suppose. 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:46.160 They were. 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.599 But people would do mad things. 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.880 And someone was crossing Paris, and he said, I mean, would you go back to that shop and buy me this, the other side of Paris? 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:53.519 And they would. 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:53.839 Yeah. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.200 And then he'd ask them, you know, oh, by the way, could you lend me 10 francs? 00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:58.240 The stories are endless. 00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:02.400 I mean, some apocrypha there, I dare say, but it generated this sort of stories within stories. 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:04.000 Stories within stories. 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:12.799 I'm fascinated by Joyce and his writings, and it's wonderful to talk to someone who's so steeped in Joycean lore. 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.519 But let's get back to you. 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:16.640 Oh no. 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:27.680 Adrienne said you were a founding member of something called Balunatics, and you've been in theatre, you've been in movies, you've been on TV. 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.119 So let's get back to you and tell us some of your doings. 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:32.720 Balunatics, yeah. 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:34.640 It seemed like a good idea at the time. 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:40.000 Funnily enough, there's a Buster Keaton film, wasn't it, called The Balunatic, which actually had nothing to do with it. 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.559 After we left Cambridge, a group of us, we decided it was a strange thing. 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.599 We were doing other things, but we wanted to keep the theatre going. 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.400 We didn't want to go all out professional. 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:54.079 We had enough sense and awareness of our limitations. 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.559 But we wanted to keep the theatre going. 00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.640 So decided we would do something. 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.599 And the first thing we did actually was nothing to do with Joyce. 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.839 It was actually an adaptation of Condide, the Voltaire's Condide. 00:33:06.319

--> 00:33:12.640 Strange Fate made feature of that is a 1755 earthquake in Lisbon, one of the main areas of the book, isn't it? 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:13.920 Things come together. 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:15.839 We decided that we would do that. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:28.960 We were looking for a name, and one of the reviews that we had for Cersei in Edinburgh the previous year said, Thank goodness there are lunatics still prepared to try the impossible and succeed, which is very complimentary. 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:30.480 Um, so we like the lunatics. 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:36.960 And then well, I was reading something, some Voltaire, and he said, Well, part of what I want to do with Condide were these German metaphysicals. 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:39.839 He said, I will prick their metaphysical balloons. 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.599 So we sort of put balloon and lunatics together, completely unaware of the Buster Keaton film. 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.279 And so we end up balloonatics. 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:51.680 I think it must have been like probably three o'clock in the morning in some lock-in in some bar somewhere. 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.119 We decided it was a good idea. 00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:56.000 And then, of course, we got the publicity material, so it's stuck. 00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.079 We've been balloonatics ever since. 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:04.720 So we did Condide and then Nightfall, the Finnegans Wake, and then we did a four-person Hamlet. 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.680 We did go all out just before I came to Portugal. 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:16.480 We did an eight-week tour of Europe because at Cambridge there was um a group called the European Touring Company, the theatre touring, yes, the ETG. 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:24.800 And for for two weeks in December, we would go around universities in France, Switzerland, Germany, and Austria, and we'd kept those contacts. 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:31.440 So we had those, so we traveled around versions of Gulliver's travels and say a Hamlet waiting for God over bits and pieces. 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:33.280 Um, so it kept it going. 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:38.079 And then as we got older, the Lunatics Now really is Bloomsday. 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.039 Paulo Hanrahan, the the the main force. 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.519 He's been doing Bloomsday for 35 years or something, even on his own sometimes. 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.440 The rest of us come across every now and again. 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.320 I think I've done like nine or ten Dublin Bloomsdays over the years of circumstances. 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.519 So we we come together, we have our own website, etc. 00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:05.119 And here in Lisbon, I was very lucky to get involved with Lisbon players and Jab and did lots of shows with Adrienne as well and Jonathan and Mandy. 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.840 I've never put myself bored as an actor and going to castings or anything like that. 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.880 But as I say, it's a small world, so every now and again people hear about you. 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:19.519 And if they're looking for a particular kind of foreigner for a particular kind of part or a voiceover, then I get asked to do them. 00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:20.639 But it's very rare. 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.320 Occasional stuff. 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:26.320 And the stuff in films and TV, it's kind of blink if you miss me. 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:28.800 I'm that sort of foreigner who asks for a beer in the bar. 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:30.480 But it's fun, it's fun to do. 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:38.719 There's a film that Mandy and I were in, which opened on Thursday, and it's about the last days of the Portuguese dictator, Salazars. 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.920 It's called Upain Nosso, called Ultimos Dias de Salazar. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.599 Upai Nosso is Our Father, The Last Days of Salazar. 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:55.519 I don't know whether it's a unique case or not, but basically Salazar fell off a chair, as Adrienne knows, and had a stroke and suffered sort of dementia in effect. 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:59.679 But they didn't tell him that he wasn't the president in charge still. 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.199 They kept it a secret from him. 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:03.679 So he still lived in the presidential house. 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.719 They had people coming along pretending to be ministers, and he would sign papers. 00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:10.480 Absolutely extraordinary. 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:14.719 They didn't dare tell him or didn't want to tell him that he was no longer in charge. 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:19.119 And so they had this complete theatre going on around him. 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:19.679 Wow. 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.639 So that's the film. 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.239 Mandy and I are an English couple who go and have dinner with Salazar. 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.000 And it's it's a two-minute scene, but it's fun, but it's an extraordinary story. 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:29.840 This went on for a number of years. 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:31.679 People played along with it. 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:38.480 I mean, he was far from being sound of mind, but the power of the man or something, they just there's something very Portuguese about that, Adrian. 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:42.079 I was just going to say there's something very Portuguese about it. 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:45.519 It probably will end up being Trump's final years. 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.800 And Armando Ianucci could have written that, couldn't he? 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.039 I was thinking exactly, Death of Stalin. 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.320 Beautiful stuff. 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.679 And Mick, do you also play in Portuguese? 00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:03.599 So some of the series you've done and films you've done, you have been, okay, maybe you're the foreigner, but you're the foreigner in Portuguese. 00:37:03.679 -->

00:37:04.239 Is that right? 00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.679 Yeah, occasionally, but very much the foreigner speaking Portuguese. 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.679 I would never pass for the real thing. 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:10.239 Right. 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.880 At university, I basically teach theatre studies. 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:19.760 So it's nice to have that sort of practical aspect as well, to sort of know a little bit more on what I'm talking about rather than just be theoretical. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.159 And I try to make the classes are as practical as possible. 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.039 They all have to do a little play at the end, etc., etc. 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:28.559 And there's a new new generation of Portuguese people coming up, I hope. 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:29.679 A lot of talent there. 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.599 So what's next? 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:37.039 You're going through this process of change and dare I say aging, as we all are. 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:37.519 What? 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:38.559 So can you speak up? 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:40.400 You're getting old, you old sod. 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:44.480 Well, well more creaky and ancient. 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.000 What keeps you going creativity in your life? 00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:52.559 And what advice, if any, would you like to give to people who are listening to this? 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.119 I have nothing original to say, to be honest. 00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:55.760 Oh, okay. 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.119 You're as old as you feel. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:02.400 And in my head, I'm still, you know, a 20-year-old running around. 00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:06.559 And I'm again lucky I'm still in contact with people who say, Oh, what about this? 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:07.760 Would you fancy doing this? 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:08.079 Yeah. 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:09.360 And that's fantastic. 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:15.039 Always ideas, which I intend to, you know, to carry on doing what I do till I fall over. 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.039 What do you think of the ending of Tommy Cooper? 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:18.079 What a way to go. 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:19.679 He collapsed on stage. 00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:21.920 People thought it was part of the act and they realized it wasn't. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.360 But you know, that I'd be happy. 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:26.079 I don't think I'd want to do it in a classroom in front of the students. 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.760 I think that would be a bit rough for them. 00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:30.079 Perhaps on stage or somewhere. 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.559 In front of a set of red velvet curtains would be perfect, wouldn't it? 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:35.440 Absolutely, yeah. 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:35.679 Yeah. 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:43.280 I'm always keen to contextualize for someone who's listening from a country which is perhaps not British culture based. 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:49.039 This series is

apparently mechan, listened to in 29 or more countries around the world. 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.440 Well. 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:56.880 So not everyone knows who Tommy Cooper is, for example, who was a British comedian who actually died on stage, didn't he? 00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:00.159 And people really thought it was a joke that he was acting. 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:00.639 Yeah. 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.400 He was actually a very good magician. 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:03.840 The tricks would go wrong. 00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:05.280 So his act was always going wrong. 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.320 So people thought, oh, this is another trick that's gone wrong. 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:11.119 And then all of a sudden, is there a doctor in the house? 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:13.119 And as Adrienne said, you know, what a way to go. 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:22.400 I got across your summary of your thoughts about creativity and aging, but I did want to get in that reference to who the heck Tommy Cooper is was. 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:23.360 Just like that. 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:25.679 Yes, he talked like that. 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:27.360 I went to the doctor's the other day. 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.320 I said, Doctor, I've broken my leg in three places. 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.800 And the doctor said, Well, don't go to those places. 00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:35.840 Maybe he would come on stage and people would just start laughing, wouldn't they? 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:37.519 He didn't have he didn't have to do anything. 00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:38.320 It's extraordinary. 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:45.599 My sister went to see him and people were laughing before he was on stage because he was mic'd up in the dressing room. 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:48.719 So they're all sitting there and he's going, It's dark in here. 00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:49.199 There we go. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:54.079 If anyone, anyone listening who wants to find out more, you'll get all kinds of little bite-sized clips on YouTube. 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:55.039 Uh, I love them. 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.840 The next project is going to be with Jar. 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:13.440 I think it's uh appropriate that we're going to do um a version of Neil Simon's The Sunshine Boys, which is about two old comedians, a double act, they were massive in 1930s, 1940s, and somebody has the idea that they should have a reunion. 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.199 So there's going to be a TV program, which is the history of American comedy or the history of comedy. 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:24.000 Wouldn't it be a great idea to have these two come on now in their you know their 70s or whatever and do their act again? 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:27.920 There's just one problem, which is that these two guys hate each other. 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.079 It's a kind of Abbott and Costello thing. 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.880 They loathe each other, they were a massive success, but they couldn't stand each other. 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.440 So it's about them rehearsing, etc., etc. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.760 But it's also I think more about aging and accepting aging and dealing with aging. 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:48.079 They're still doing the routine that they did, what whatever it was 40 years ago. 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.199 I'm doing with uh another guy who is similar age to me. 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.000 That should be fun. 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:53.920 So we're hoping to do that in the autumn. 00:40:54.800 --> 00:41:00.480 So I think aging and dealing with that and creativity, I think, will be very much in our mind when we're working on that. 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:01.920 I'm looking forward to it. 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:04.320 If I can remember all my lines. 00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:05.280 Yes. 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.199 And when I come on and when I don't, I love the idea of him sitting in the dressing room. 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.079 It's dark in here. 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:11.760 Tommy King for I'm sorry. 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.360 Yes, it's dark. 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:14.719 Oh, it's dark in here. 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:22.480 Well, it's been a joy talking with you and hearing especially a lot about James Joyce. 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:26.639 And we've talked a bit about Irish and Celtic culture. 00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:35.920 You're going to not only read us but sing us out with a semi-traditional Scottish Irish song. 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.360 Perhaps you can tell us about it, Mick. 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.280 I think it it's it's appropriate. 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:40.880 It's called The Parting Glass. 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.159 It's a song of farewell. 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:49.440 Originally it's a traditional Scottish ballad, but it's been part of the Irish folk repertoire for years and years and years. 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:57.599 Apparently, it used to be the most popular ballad before Robert Burns produced Old Lang's Eine in Scotland, anyway. 00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.760 So I crave your indulgence. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.679 I really need to be in the shower, to be honest. 00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:04.320 It'd be best, but I'm a shower singer more than anything else. 00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.400 Before we get the song, let's say thank you so much. 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:11.760 Thank you for your time, your energy, your stories. 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.719 It's been great for me meeting you for the first time. 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.440 And I imagine for Adrienne remeeting. 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:18.960 Absolutely been great. 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.800 But I quite like to dedicate this song to absent friends. 00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:23.920 Yes, absolutely. 00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:24.480 Me too. 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:25.039 Me too. 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:25.440 Yeah. 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.000 And I think this project is wonderful. 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:29.679 And I look forward to hearing more. 00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:31.760 I mean, the ones I've heard have been super. 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.119 So congratulations and uh more power to your elbow. 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:36.159 Fantastic. 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:37.599 Keep up the good work. 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:38.480 It's real a pleasure. 00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:39.119 Thank you so much. 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:40.159 Thank you so much. 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:40.960 Thanks, Nick. 00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:43.679 So this is Professor Mick Rear. 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.239 Professing to be a singer, but don't mm hmm. 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.840 I think it's going to be lovely with the parting glass. 00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:01.760 Of all the money that ever I had, I spent it in good company. 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:20.639 And all the harm that ever I've done, a less it was to none but me, and all I've done for want of wit, to memory now I can't recall. 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.440 So fill to me the parting glass. 00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:30.239 Good night and joy be with you all. 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:52.559 If I had money enough to spend and leisure time to sit awhile, there is a fair maid in this town who sorely has my heart beguiled, her rosy cheeks and ruby lips. 00:43:53.440 --> 00:44:01.679 I swear she has my heart enthrall, so fill to me the parting glass. 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:06.079 Good night and joy be with you all. 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:23.920 Of all the comrades that ever I had, they are sorry for my going away, and all the sweethearts that ever I kissed, they would wish me one more day to stay. 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:33.360 But since it falls unto my lot, that I should go and you should not. 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:44.239 I'll gently rise and I'll softly call good night and joy be with you all. 00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:58.320 Creativity, if you think you're too old to be creative, or too creative to be old, tune in to the Creativity Podcast.