บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Golden Thread: Why Unreasonable Hospitality Needs a Story First with Sonya & Julie

--> 00:03:37.802 'cause like we met in, oh my God, is it like six years ago or five years ago? 00:03:37.902 --> 00:03:38.122 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:03:38.222 --> 00:03:38.732 Yes. 00:03:38.832 --> 00:03:39.522 In Nashville. 00:03:39.572 --> 00:03:42.872 Speaker: Nashville doing StoryBrand guide training and, you know, we just 00:03:42.872 --> 00:03:44.372 like followed each other ever since. 00:03:44.432 --> 00:03:47.812 And I, I, when I'm Reasonable hospitality came out I love that book. 00:03:47.812 --> 00:03:49.072 I think everyone should read. 00:03:49.172 --> 00:03:49.802 I dunno. 00:03:49.902 --> 00:03:51.012 I just think everyone should read it. 00:03:51.012 --> 00:03:53.542 I haven't got a why they should read it, but you know, I'm reasonable. 00:03:53.542 --> 00:03:58.072 Hospitality and Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain and I always like to 00:03:58.072 --> 00:04:02.472 tell the, I grew up in five star hotels and served Roger Moore, but actually I 00:04:02.472 --> 00:04:07.422 spent most of my careers in middle of the road casual dining restaurants serving 00:04:07.522 --> 00:04:11.002 mediocre for heaters and cheeseburgers to people drinking too much tequila. 00:04:11.062 --> 00:04:14.492 But there was always this like, human interaction, and I think those two 00:04:14.492 --> 00:04:18.337 books are like, as, as someone who worked in catering, we used to call 00:04:18.337 --> 00:04:20.237 it, they're, they're like, really? 00:04:20.337 --> 00:04:22.617 They're really enjoyable to read and you feel like you are at that. 00:04:22.717 --> 00:04:26.387 That is something I wish I'd read in the last century when I worked in catering. 00:04:26.487 --> 00:04:29.307 And there's this matching of, like you said just now, Julie, 00:04:29.367 --> 00:04:31.687 of the story and the delivery. 00:04:31.787 --> 00:04:33.917 And that's what I want to kind of unpick for people here. 00:04:33.917 --> 00:04:38.037 And that Unreasonable hospitality book is all over the coworking industry. 00:04:38.137 --> 00:04:39.977 And I feel that people. 00:04:40.077 --> 00:04:43.517 I know someone who owns a, owns a coworking space goes, I've 00:04:43.517 --> 00:04:45.137 read this book, let's do this. 00:04:45.197 --> 00:04:46.847 And there's a massive disconnect. 00:04:46.947 --> 00:04:49.327 Which I hope you have the answer to the disconnect 'cause 00:04:49.327 --> 00:04:50.137 I dunno where I'm going now. 00:04:50.237 --> 00:04:50.997 But yeah. 00:04:50.997 --> 00:04:51.417 What do you think? 00:04:51.417 --> 00:04:52.137 What do you think happens? 00:04:52.237 --> 00:04:56.377 Speaker 3: Well, I, I think one of the, the challenges there is if you think 00:04:56.377 --> 00:05:00.337 about if you're familiar with Unreasonable Hospitality, you'll, you'll know that some 00:05:00.337 --> 00:05:05.237 of the work that Bill Gadara did was to really, he had, he worked with his team. 00:05:05.237 --> 00:05:06.797 He knew he couldn't get them on his own. 00:05:06.797 -->

00:05:08.477 He had to bring the team on board with that. 00:05:08.577 --> 00:05:13.387 And, part of the process was to empower them to be able to react in the moment 00:05:13.487 --> 00:05:15.827 to create these incredible experiences. 00:05:15.927 --> 00:05:21.277 Now, the challenge with that is unless you have this kind of golden thread 00:05:21.377 --> 00:05:24.647 running through everything that you do about what you stand for, who you 00:05:24.647 --> 00:05:28.677 are as a business, what you want to be known for, without really drilling 00:05:28.677 --> 00:05:33.077 down into that first, people are at risk of going into a million different 00:05:33.077 --> 00:05:37.207 directions is one of the things we see from the workshops we deliver, is that. 00:05:37.307 --> 00:05:41.517 You get a group of people around the table and you get 'em to start thinking 00:05:41.517 --> 00:05:44.307 in a different way about, about the experience they could deliver. 00:05:44.407 --> 00:05:47.437 And the the great thing is, is they are full of excitement. 00:05:47.437 --> 00:05:49.687 They're full of 1,000,001 different ideas. 00:05:49.687 --> 00:05:51.637 All of a sudden they're really fired up. 00:05:51.737 --> 00:05:53.027 But without something that. 00:05:53.127 --> 00:05:57.877 Kind of gives you the not control, but the guardrails, I suppose, 00:05:57.877 --> 00:06:01.927 to kind of, stick within that gives you a, what's your purpose? 00:06:01.927 --> 00:06:04.717 What's the purpose of doing this amazing thing for that person? 00:06:04.717 --> 00:06:07.817 Does it fit with our values and what we stand for and how we 00:06:07.817 --> 00:06:11.622 wanna project ourselves to our, to our customers or our members? 00:06:11.722 --> 00:06:14.277 Without that in place first, then I. 00:06:14.377 --> 00:06:18.152 Think that is one of the areas where unreasonable hospitality 00:06:18.152 --> 00:06:19.772 can quickly trip you up. 00:06:19.802 --> 00:06:22.452 There are others, and I think we'll go into those when we start 00:06:22.452 --> 00:06:24.282 to talk about process as well. 00:06:24.382 --> 00:06:29.292 But that, that for me, I think you have to know what your story is first to then be 00:06:29.292 --> 00:06:33.462 able to deliver on that story through the unreasonable hospitality side of things. 00:06:33.562 --> 00:06:37.282 Speaker: So with that story thing, Sonya, like, I mean ideally everyone 00:06:37.282 --> 00:06:40.752 would sit down and do a story brand, whatever it is, brand script, but 00:06:40.752 --> 00:06:42.862 like it is working out who you are. 00:06:42.862 --> 00:06:45.757 Is that like a little bit at a time over a year or is that like. 00:06:45.857 --> 00:06:47.387 Right on a napkin and a cafe. 00:06:47.387 --> 00:06:50.667 Like how does, because I hear and I say things like that too, you really need 00:06:50.667 --> 00:06:52.507 to find out your, what you're about. 00:06:52.567 --> 00:06:54.357 But what is that in reality? 00:06:54.357 -->

00:06:55.257 How do, how do you do that? 00:06:55.357 --> 00:06:59.637 Especially if you're like a, you know, a one, one or two person business in 00:06:59.697 --> 00:07:01.867 Rochester running a coworking space. 00:07:01.927 --> 00:07:04.537 Like how, what is the process and time to get that done? 00:07:04.637 --> 00:07:06.917 Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, and actually, it's a really interesting question that 00:07:06.917 --> 00:07:10.127 you say, 'cause it's something that we you know, we work with our customers 00:07:10.127 --> 00:07:12.802 quite a lot on, and, you know, one of the big, I thought you're gonna 00:07:12.802 --> 00:07:15.702 say that's something we struggle with ourselves, but actually I do, I do think 00:07:15.702 --> 00:07:17.262 it's difficult to do it for yourself. 00:07:17.322 --> 00:07:21.732 And I think the, you know, the, you go back to, you know, don Miller saying 00:07:21.832 --> 00:07:25.232 that, you know, that you are so close to it, you can't see the wood for the tree. 00:07:25.232 --> 00:07:28.262 So it's def, you know, definitely it's, it's far more difficult 00:07:28.262 --> 00:07:31.272 to do it for yourself because you get that curse of knowledge. 00:07:31.322 --> 00:07:32.432 You know, you know everything. 00:07:32.432 --> 00:07:34.682 So it's difficult for you to be able to work that out. 00:07:34.782 --> 00:07:37.832 And I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, 00:07:37.832 --> 00:07:41.952 people do go to guides, to, to help with that, to kind of work out. 00:07:42.012 --> 00:07:42.852 Y you know, that. 00:07:42.952 --> 00:07:45.982 Ability to be able to see as your customer sees you not as you know, 00:07:45.982 --> 00:07:48.532 everything, you know, you know the ins and outs of your business. 00:07:48.532 --> 00:07:51.202 It's difficult to think about how your customer might see you there. 00:07:51.302 --> 00:07:55.142 But I do think that position, and we'd call it positioning, so you know, that 00:07:55.142 --> 00:08:00.702 positioning of understanding what you stand for needs to come before you even 00:08:00.702 --> 00:08:04.732 start getting into your messaging and should come before you get into, you 00:08:04.732 --> 00:08:06.142 know, kind of thinking about the service. 00:08:06.242 --> 00:08:08.952 You know, elements of that and getting into, you know, where 00:08:08.952 --> 00:08:10.272 your touch points might be. 00:08:10.372 --> 00:08:15.357 So they, you know, it very much is cyclical, but it, you, you have to be 00:08:15.357 --> 00:08:19.567 thinking about what you stand for, who you are, what experience you want your 00:08:19.567 --> 00:08:23.147 customers to have before you can even get into that marketing of the message. 00:08:23.147 --> 00:08:25.947 So, you know, they kind of fit really well hand in glove. 00:08:25.997 --> 00:08:26.747 Speaker: Can I jump in there? 00:08:26.777 --> 00:08:28.607 'cause I see I, and I've been in these sessions. 00:08:28.707 --> 00:08:31.527 People

say like what you said what triggered my excitement there 00:08:31.527 --> 00:08:34.667 was when you said, stand for, and people will say something like 00:08:34.717 --> 00:08:36.097 oh yeah, we're a coworking space. 00:08:36.097 --> 00:08:38.947 We, we stand for quality, service and value. 00:08:39.047 --> 00:08:41.387 And that's like Marks and Spencer's in 1994. 00:08:41.387 --> 00:08:43.037 Like, what do you actually believe in? 00:08:43.127 --> 00:08:45.822 Like, you know, and how do you get that bit out of, if, if 00:08:45.822 --> 00:08:46.932 you can't go to a workshop? 00:08:46.932 --> 00:08:48.522 Like how, how do you find that bit? 00:08:48.582 --> 00:08:49.612 Because I think. 00:08:49.712 --> 00:08:50.882 People, we've all done it. 00:08:50.882 --> 00:08:52.892 You know, we've all like looked at everyone else's website 00:08:52.892 --> 00:08:53.972 and copied the best bits. 00:08:54.032 --> 00:08:56.832 And I think that works less than it ever has nowadays. 00:08:56.832 --> 00:08:58.892 But how do you work out who you are? 00:08:58.982 --> 00:08:59.972 That's a big question, isn't it? 00:08:59.972 --> 00:09:00.272 Sorry, 00:09:00.372 --> 00:09:01.482 Speaker 2: Julie, do you wanna pick that up? 00:09:01.582 --> 00:09:01.942 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:09:01.942 --> 00:09:04.672 Well, I, I, I think actually this comes back to who your 00:09:04.672 --> 00:09:06.842 customers are first and foremost. 00:09:06.842 --> 00:09:10.822 So, when we were chatting before earlier Bernie, we were, we 00:09:10.822 --> 00:09:14.342 were talking about the different personalities that different coworking 00:09:14.342 --> 00:09:17.372 faces might have and the different people they're trying to attract. 00:09:17.472 --> 00:09:19.757 And you could have one that is trying to be a home. 00:09:19.857 --> 00:09:26.257 From home and they want this to feel cosy and that people are feel looked after. 00:09:26.257 --> 00:09:30.317 And that could have a very different personality to one that was very tech 00:09:30.317 --> 00:09:33.607 focused where people needed efficiency. 00:09:33.667 --> 00:09:38.617 And once you know, once you understand who your customers are and what they 00:09:38.617 --> 00:09:41.327 value, then that's how you understand. 00:09:41.427 --> 00:09:43.857 How to prioritise your values. 00:09:43.857 --> 00:09:47.707 So you could have you could have a set of values internally, 00:09:47.707 --> 00:09:49.847 personally if you are the founder. 00:09:49.947 --> 00:09:55.647 And then it's how you how you refine those values to be, understood by your 00:09:55.647 --> 00:10:00.067 customers and, and be relatable to your, your ideal customer profile, I suppose. 00:10:00.167 --> 00:10:03.447 So there's there's no point in having say. 00:10:03.547 --> 00:10:07.177 Say efficiency was one of your your values. 00:10:07.277 --> 00:10:11.327 If efficiency wasn't something that chimed with your people that liked that 00:10:11.327 --> 00:10:15.937 home from home co-working

space, then that's, it's, there's a disconnect. 00:10:15.937 --> 00:10:18.877 There you are, you are not aligning yourself with your customers. 00:10:18.877 --> 00:10:21.882 So I, I think it, it always goes back to the customers. 00:10:21.982 --> 00:10:23.332 What is it your customers need? 00:10:23.332 --> 00:10:27.142 And one of the coworker spaces we worked with, they recognise that 00:10:27.242 --> 00:10:29.192 actually who their target audience was. 00:10:29.292 --> 00:10:33.592 Businesses that weren't quite big enough to have their own premises, 00:10:33.692 --> 00:10:37.752 or perhaps it wasn't cost efficient for them to have their own premises, 00:10:37.852 --> 00:10:43.152 but they were pitching to customers themselves that they needed to appear. 00:10:43.252 --> 00:10:47.752 Sometimes perhaps larger than they actually were, but definitely impressive. 00:10:47.852 --> 00:10:51.252 And be able to kind of sit comfortably in that market space. 00:10:51.352 --> 00:10:55.232 Now, they wouldn't be the right customers for the home from home. 00:10:55.332 --> 00:11:00.332 Coworking space so it can see suddenly how the values then need to kind of shift 00:11:00.332 --> 00:11:03.992 and adapt according to who the customers are and what they're looking for. 00:11:04.052 --> 00:11:05.342 Does that make sense? 00:11:05.442 --> 00:11:06.922 Speaker: How, how can I say no at that point? 00:11:06.922 --> 00:11:07.862 But it does make sense. 00:11:07.962 --> 00:11:09.632 Hopefully awkward as you were talking. 00:11:09.722 --> 00:11:12.762 'cause I, I, you know, I've read that book like 50,000 times now, 00:11:12.822 --> 00:11:16.812 and the way he, instead of going into, he just, does he say something 00:11:16.812 --> 00:11:18.652 about non-negotiables in the book? 00:11:18.752 --> 00:11:22.592 That it, it's like operating like with intentionality and 00:11:22.592 --> 00:11:23.462 knowing what you're trying to do. 00:11:23.552 --> 00:11:26.542 And I'm, and the thing is nearly coming into my head as I'm thinking, and then he 00:11:26.542 --> 00:11:28.642 goes, what are your non, non-negotiables? 00:11:28.742 --> 00:11:32.612 And it's about somewhere along where he is just taken over 11 00:11:32.612 --> 00:11:35.952 Madison Park and he's saying, this is what, this is what we stand for. 00:11:36.052 --> 00:11:37.812 And he, he's, it's in the book. 00:11:37.812 --> 00:11:38.982 It's when he's talking about. 00:11:39.082 --> 00:11:42.712 The speech he gives to the team and he doesn't give the speech to the team 00:11:42.812 --> 00:11:45.932 like he wants to first off, but then months later he gives the speech to 00:11:45.932 --> 00:11:49.232 the team, but he's like worked out with the team what the non-negotiables are. 00:11:49.332 --> 00:11:50.232 That was like a book review. 00:11:50.232 --> 00:11:50.592 Sorry. 00:11:50.692 --> 00:11:52.432 I like the way he said that is what I'm trying to say. 00:11:52.532 --> 00:11:52.862 Certainly. 00:11:52.862 --> 00:11:53.402 What do you think? 00:11:53.502 --> 00:11:56.422 Speaker 2: What's the, what do I think to want, what about the non-negotiables? 00:11:56.522 --> 00:11:57.482 Speaker: Yes, let's go with that. 00:11:57.482 --> 00:11:57.782 Because 00:11:57.882 --> 00:11:58.272 Speaker 2: pay for the question. 00:11:58.322 --> 00:11:59.352 I actually, I, I think. 00:11:59.452 --> 00:12:00.652 You know that that is right. 00:12:00.652 --> 00:12:03.082 And actually one of the things that, you know, we kind of talked about 00:12:03.082 --> 00:12:06.292 before we came on here, which I think is linked to what you've said there 00:12:06.392 --> 00:12:10.302 is about your culture internally. 00:12:10.302 --> 00:12:15.382 Your, your team has to want to deliver those things for your customers. 00:12:15.382 --> 00:12:19.482 The non-negotiables that you agree with, your, you know, with, with your team. 00:12:19.582 --> 00:12:21.112 They have to be brought onto that. 00:12:21.212 --> 00:12:22.772 And, you know, very often. 00:12:22.872 --> 00:12:27.162 You know, when we go to places that we have a poor, you know, poor customer 00:12:27.162 --> 00:12:30.482 service, we have a poor customer poor customer service at every 00:12:30.482 --> 00:12:34.362 touch point, it's because the team culture internally and not brought 00:12:34.362 --> 00:12:36.132 in to delivering that great service. 00:12:36.232 --> 00:12:39.512 And you know, on the flip side of that, we were, you know, we went to 00:12:39.562 --> 00:12:43.522 Barcelona recently and we had some food at a place called olive Greens. 00:12:43.622 --> 00:12:46.682 And you could tell the team culture. 00:12:46.782 --> 00:12:50.782 The, the non-negotiables were that, that customers had to feel valued in there. 00:12:50.812 --> 00:12:53.132 And we, you know, we had sort of four or five different 00:12:53.132 --> 00:12:54.392 touch points as we walked in. 00:12:54.392 --> 00:12:57.502 They gave us a menu, you know, as we ordered the food. 00:12:57.602 --> 00:13:00.362 When they brought the food over to us, when they came over to check the food. 00:13:00.462 --> 00:13:03.162 Every single touch point was exceptional. 00:13:03.222 --> 00:13:07.682 And it's because they're brought into where we value our customers here. 00:13:07.682 --> 00:13:09.182 We want 'em to have a good experience. 00:13:09.182 --> 00:13:10.952 And, you know, we'd never been to this restaurant before. 00:13:10.952 --> 00:13:13.142 It's kind of a fast food, healthy place. 00:13:13.242 --> 00:13:16.792 But you go and stand at the till and order and the, you know, the lady, 00:13:16.792 --> 00:13:19.772 the Maury at the front, if you like, kind of, you know, walked us up to the 00:13:19.772 --> 00:13:23.042 counter to explain how to order the type of different food that we could 00:13:23.042 --> 00:13:24.792 have, you know, what was best to have. 00:13:24.892 --> 00:13:27.912 And it was that, you know, she took time you know, to 00:13:27.912 -->

00:13:28.882 really go through that with us. 00:13:28.882 --> 00:13:32.267 And I think when you talk about those kind of non-negotiables, they do start 00:13:32.297 --> 00:13:35.277 with the culture internally at the team. 00:13:35.377 --> 00:13:38.657 Speaker: There's there's a taco place here in Vigo, which is 20 minutes walk 00:13:38.657 --> 00:13:42.587 from our house, and there are more taco places nearer and which are nice too. 00:13:42.647 --> 00:13:46.167 But when you go in there, they, there's like three people working 00:13:46.167 --> 00:13:49.277 in there and they cook all the food nearly in front of you. 00:13:49.377 --> 00:13:51.907 And it is the real deal and it's real. 00:13:51.937 --> 00:13:55.977 It's like real Mexican food, not like Taco Bell kind of stuff. 00:13:56.077 --> 00:13:57.737 And it's further to walk. 00:13:57.837 --> 00:13:59.247 It's mayhem in there. 00:13:59.347 --> 00:14:00.547 The food is amazing. 00:14:00.647 --> 00:14:04.347 The two, the three people running it like know what everybody's doing and 00:14:04.397 --> 00:14:06.727 it's very small and I just love it. 00:14:06.817 --> 00:14:09.127 You know, there's something about, it's not like they, what, where 00:14:09.127 --> 00:14:11.907 I'm going with this is, it's not like they design the experience. 00:14:11.937 --> 00:14:13.827 I don't think they sit down and have a crew meeting. 00:14:13.857 --> 00:14:14.067 Yeah. 00:14:14.097 --> 00:14:15.297 Let's go rah, rah, rah. 00:14:15.297 --> 00:14:15.507 Yeah. 00:14:15.507 --> 00:14:17.917 Today we're focused on ultimate guest service. 00:14:17.917 --> 00:14:20.807 They're just like, really, really love what they do, and. 00:14:20.907 --> 00:14:22.557 They just managed to drop in. 00:14:22.647 --> 00:14:26.907 Like as you leave they kind of throw you a little Mexican suite and it, it's the, 00:14:26.907 --> 00:14:28.357 it's the, oh god, dunno what to say. 00:14:28.457 --> 00:14:29.507 They just, they just love it. 00:14:29.537 --> 00:14:30.137 They love it. 00:14:30.137 --> 00:14:30.737 So, you love it? 00:14:30.837 --> 00:14:31.227 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:14:31.277 --> 00:14:35.597 Speaker 3: They might have non-negotiables that are almost un unspoken. 00:14:35.697 --> 00:14:38.217 That is just a given that this is who we are. 00:14:38.247 --> 00:14:42.477 This is, maybe that is around the food, around the energy that's in there. 00:14:42.577 --> 00:14:43.987 That just brings that to life. 00:14:43.987 --> 00:14:47.627 But I think, I think going back to those values and the what your story 00:14:47.627 --> 00:14:50.997 is and what your non-negotiables are, that goes back to hiring the 00:14:50.997 --> 00:14:52.497 people that you are hiring as well. 00:14:52.497 --> 00:14:53.137 It's not about just. 00:14:53.237 --> 00:14:57.177 Hiring someone that can be well organised and manage the bookings. 00:14:57.177 --> 00:14:59.067 It's how do they fit into that? 00:14:59.167 --> 00:15:02.297 To that culture, like Sun was saying, that you, you have to have that all 00:15:02.297 --> 00:15:07.207 aligned for that, to get that buy-in for people to really understand 00:15:07.307 --> 00:15:08.597 that you're on a journey together. 00:15:08.597 --> 00:15:11.327 This isn't just about coming into work every day. 00:15:11.357 --> 00:15:13.097 It's so much more than that. 00:15:13.197 --> 00:15:17.627 And that's what we see in the workshops is we've so lucky to be, have worked 00:15:17.627 --> 00:15:19.797 with groups of people that clearly. 00:15:19.897 --> 00:15:21.497 Get, get the non-negotiables. 00:15:21.497 --> 00:15:23.057 That's not even really discussed. 00:15:23.057 --> 00:15:25.417 It's kind of very it's hinted at at the beginning. 00:15:25.417 --> 00:15:26.467 Yes, that's what we do. 00:15:26.467 --> 00:15:28.537 Of course, we're always trying to deliver the very best. 00:15:28.537 --> 00:15:30.457 How do we take it one step further? 00:15:30.557 --> 00:15:34.047 And that's where it really then starts to get super exciting. 00:15:34.147 --> 00:15:37.487 Speaker: So with it, with both these frameworks or these book, I'm gonna 00:15:37.487 --> 00:15:40.127 say books 'cause it's, you know, that's what most people will know. 00:15:40.227 --> 00:15:42.797 It's like, you know, I've, I've done StoryBrand everywhere. 00:15:42.897 --> 00:15:47.217 And, I worked in hospitality and I really loved the book and appreciate it. 00:15:47.217 --> 00:15:51.607 And I, and in both books I see I've met people in real life putting them into 00:15:51.707 --> 00:15:55.077 into action, like practically applying them rather than just sitting around 00:15:55.177 --> 00:15:56.647 doing a podcast like this about them. 00:15:56.747 --> 00:15:57.617 How do you. 00:15:57.717 --> 00:15:58.047 When? 00:15:58.047 --> 00:16:01.427 When you see, when you meet people, all those, I'm gonna say like micro 00:16:01.427 --> 00:16:04.647 businesses, 'cause most people that listen to this are one or two 00:16:04.647 --> 00:16:08.767 person businesses with two or 3, 1, 2 or three coworking spaces. 00:16:08.767 --> 00:16:12.527 Like where do people get in their own way as they try to tell their own 00:16:12.527 --> 00:16:15.267 story and then apply their hospitality? 00:16:15.367 --> 00:16:16.207 In their business. 00:16:16.267 --> 00:16:20.347 Is it, is there like a, a few reoccurring things that people do and like, no, just, 00:16:20.407 --> 00:16:22.117 just skip that bit and get to this bit? 00:16:22.117 --> 00:16:25.317 Or you don't need to meditate for three years on it. 00:16:25.377 --> 00:16:27.667 Just like, write a blog post and get going. 00:16:27.667 --> 00:16:30.902 Like, are there, there things that come up that stop people 00:16:31.002 --> 00:16:33.072 adopting these simple philosophies? 00:16:33.132 --> 00:16:34.632 Speaker 3: Shall I pick up the story side? 00:16:34.732 --> 00:16:35.152 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:16:35.252 --> 00:16:36.012 Speaker 3: So on. 00:16:36.072 --> 00:16:42.002 I think

one of the biggest pitfalls is in, in trying to work out what your story 00:16:42.002 --> 00:16:46.972 is and how to implement that is, is not thinking about who your customer is first. 00:16:47.072 --> 00:16:47.172 And. 00:16:47.272 --> 00:16:52.172 And how, and not re and thinking about this as a marketing tool 00:16:52.202 --> 00:16:56.292 rather than a mindset shift in, in everything that you do. 00:16:56.392 --> 00:16:58.372 We are really lucky that like, I think. 00:16:58.472 --> 00:17:02.972 99% of our clients have already been familiar with StoryBrand 00:17:02.972 --> 00:17:04.032 before they come to us. 00:17:04.032 --> 00:17:08.162 But the ones that perhaps have not been so aware, I think there 00:17:08.162 --> 00:17:12.192 is an, a natural tendency because of like marketing gone by. 00:17:12.292 --> 00:17:15.292 There's a natural tendency to think that we have to talk about our business 00:17:15.292 --> 00:17:17.332 and we have to put the business first. 00:17:17.432 --> 00:17:20.442 And actually when you put your customer first. 00:17:20.542 --> 00:17:25.602 So long as you understand why you are doing those things and how you are 00:17:25.702 --> 00:17:29.452 making yourself relevant, everything else just falls into place anyway. 00:17:29.452 --> 00:17:33.252 You don't have to sell because you naturally become the right solution 00:17:33.252 --> 00:17:34.542 for what they're looking for. 00:17:34.642 --> 00:17:38.252 So I think doing your own messaging is really tough because you're 00:17:38.252 --> 00:17:39.877 too close to it and you have. 00:17:39.977 --> 00:17:42.257 Put blood, sweat, and tears into it yourself. 00:17:42.357 --> 00:17:46.257 And you, it's almost impossible for you to stand in your customer's shoes. 00:17:46.357 --> 00:17:50.257 Having somebody else kind of hold a mirror up to why is that relevant? 00:17:50.257 --> 00:17:51.277 Why are you saying that? 00:17:51.337 --> 00:17:54.477 Why does that matter is priceless. 00:17:54.577 --> 00:17:55.417 And then. 00:17:55.517 --> 00:17:59.867 Then how you deliver that, that should be across everything in, you 00:17:59.867 --> 00:18:03.847 know, from the, from a marketing perspective, you should be able to 00:18:03.877 --> 00:18:06.127 detect that message across everything. 00:18:06.132 --> 00:18:10.337 And, and often people forget, they stop talking about the problem that they solve. 00:18:10.437 --> 00:18:11.957 They it just kind of. 00:18:12.057 --> 00:18:15.667 Sometimes it, people don't understand how to implement that. 00:18:15.667 --> 00:18:19.487 I think that's the biggest challenge is the how to, what does that look like in 00:18:19.487 --> 00:18:23.637 the day to day and in the communication in the emails that we send out, how 00:18:23.637 --> 00:18:25.767 do we continue that on from there? 00:18:25.867 --> 00:18:29.557 Sonya, do you want to pick up what that looks like and challenges with 00:18:29.557 --> 00:18:31.687 implementing unreasonable hospitality? 00:18:31.787 --> 00:18:34.927 Speaker 2: Yeah, and, well, I think one you know, one of the biggest challenges 00:18:34.927 --> 00:18:38.487 that I think people, and typically it's leaders of businesses, right, who 00:18:38.487 --> 00:18:41.467 read this book and then are like, oh, great, we're gonna implement that in. 00:18:41.567 --> 00:18:44.427 But you know, one of, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, 00:18:44.427 --> 00:18:48.847 Bernie, that you have to empower your team to be able to make. 00:18:48.947 --> 00:18:52.497 On the spot decisions because you know, will Guara says, you know, it 00:18:52.497 --> 00:18:57.707 is, it's, you are, you are creating an experience that is for individuals. 00:18:57.767 --> 00:19:00.317 So you're not trying to create an experience that you can. 00:19:00.417 --> 00:19:03.067 Yes, you want that experience to be, you know, to be able to be 00:19:03.067 --> 00:19:09.127 replicated, but you want to empower your team to be able to solve those. 00:19:09.227 --> 00:19:12.857 Problems individually for customers or, or, or see something that customer's 00:19:12.857 --> 00:19:15.357 going through and tailor it for them. 00:19:15.357 --> 00:19:19.972 So, you know, he kind of talks about one size fits one, and I, I think, you know, 00:19:19.972 --> 00:19:24.002 goes back to that culture thing we were talking about earlier, but also, you know, 00:19:24.002 --> 00:19:26.167 your ability for your team to be able to. 00:19:26.267 --> 00:19:30.777 View each customer and each experience that they have as kind of this new thing, 00:19:30.777 --> 00:19:34.317 not something that they've done a hundred times, you know, that day or that week. 00:19:34.417 --> 00:19:38.347 And, you know, if you think about the book, you know, Wil talks about these 00:19:38.347 --> 00:19:42.427 kind of touch points that you go through and how you can elevate each of those. 00:19:42.427 --> 00:19:43.847 And you know, one of them is. 00:19:43.947 --> 00:19:47.737 You know, if you notice someone lefthand, they'll change the play settings and 00:19:47.837 --> 00:19:52.927 you know, that really makes people feel something, you know, that there. 00:19:53.027 --> 00:19:55.997 These experiences are designed and not left to chance. 00:19:55.997 --> 00:19:58.817 So everything's intentionally done, and you know, each touch 00:19:58.817 --> 00:20:02.967 point is thought through, but it is thought through in a way that c you 00:20:02.967 --> 00:20:07.057 know, your team are empowered to personalise it for those customers. 00:20:07.157 --> 00:20:09.897 So, you know, they're, they're trusted to make decisions and there's 00:20:09.897 --> 00:20:12.247 no rigid structure or scripts. 00:20:12.347 --> 00:20:13.857 It's not over controlled. 00:20:13.957 --> 00:20:14.657 You know, if you are. 00:20:14.757 --> 00:20:18.747 If your team aren't free to act, they can't deliver the promises 00:20:18.747 --> 00:20:20.497 that you make, if that makes sense. 00:20:20.597

--> 00:20:21.372 Of course it makes sense. 00:20:21.472 --> 00:20:22.262 Sonya, well 00:20:22.262 --> 00:20:22.652 Speaker: done. 00:20:22.742 --> 00:20:23.012 That was 00:20:23.012 --> 00:20:23.462 Speaker 2: a lovely 00:20:23.462 --> 00:20:24.152 Speaker: explanation. 00:20:24.252 --> 00:20:25.352 See that, that, that's really true. 00:20:25.382 --> 00:20:28.522 I've, I've worked in horrible places where no one knew what they were doing, 00:20:28.622 --> 00:20:31.752 and I worked in places with there was one restaurant I worked in, in London 00:20:31.852 --> 00:20:35.192 and we pulled the tips and the manager. 00:20:35.292 --> 00:20:38.972 The power hungry manager would be like, if you guys don't speed up 00:20:39.072 --> 00:20:41.832 I'm gonna employ someone else and everyone would like work a bit harder. 00:20:41.922 --> 00:20:45.022 And it, that might make it sound like the boiler room or something, but 00:20:45.122 --> 00:20:49.872 everybody just like had their shit together so much and it moved so fast. 00:20:49.872 --> 00:20:55.302 And sometimes at lunchtime we'd turn the restaurant three times and the just the. 00:20:55.402 --> 00:20:57.922 This and, and every, it was up to everybody on the floor. 00:20:58.022 --> 00:21:02.152 Like the manager would run food and like write our paychecks, but it was 00:21:02.152 --> 00:21:03.952 like kind of up to us to self organise. 00:21:03.952 --> 00:21:06.832 I didn't know what self organising was in those days, but that's what we did. 00:21:06.932 --> 00:21:08.282 It was an amazing experience. 00:21:08.382 --> 00:21:12.512 One thing before we go, is there, I think there's, and you can push back on this, 00:21:12.512 --> 00:21:17.562 but I, I think people sometimes do things to, in the hope that it looks like, i'm 00:21:17.562 --> 00:21:19.512 gonna give you a cupcake to say thank you. 00:21:19.612 --> 00:21:21.962 And it's not really a spontaneous actor. 00:21:21.992 --> 00:21:26.272 It's not like that thing with moving the place, setting for a left-handed person. 00:21:26.332 --> 00:21:29.682 It's like a, it's like a gimmick versus like genuine, you know, 00:21:29.782 --> 00:21:31.072 observation and connection. 00:21:31.172 --> 00:21:34.892 And how do you make sure you are not pretending to be 00:21:34.892 --> 00:21:36.512 hospitable, that you actually are. 00:21:36.612 --> 00:21:40.207 Speaker 3: I, I think that there is a misunderstanding between. 00:21:40.307 --> 00:21:46.537 The staff and the, the behaviour that matters personally, I think thinking that 00:21:46.537 --> 00:21:52.347 Sonya and I are very lucky to travel a lot and we see lots of different examples 00:21:52.347 --> 00:21:57.092 of service can genuinely say the ones where that we have talked to about. 00:21:57.192 --> 00:21:59.202 To other people and that's what we want. 00:21:59.302 --> 00:22:03.032 So what we want from Unreasonable Hospitality is these magical stories 00:22:03.032 --> 00:22:06.452 that we will share with other people that inspire them, that they remember. 00:22:06.552 --> 00:22:08.142 ' cause we remember stories. 00:22:08.242 --> 00:22:10.192 And we want them to refer back to us. 00:22:10.192 --> 00:22:14.472 That again, the stories that we've shared are probably of things that have happened 00:22:14.472 --> 00:22:19.202 to us that have either cost nothing at all, or you know, a couple of quid. 00:22:19.302 --> 00:22:23.082 You know, like a coffee or something like that's happened where someone has 00:22:23.082 --> 00:22:28.752 kind of, gone outta their way to help you or to greet you or to remember 00:22:28.752 --> 00:22:34.082 something or to note your situation that you are in or something like that. 00:22:34.182 --> 00:22:39.112 It's almost never about the stuff that we sit on and, and 00:22:39.112 --> 00:22:41.132 I know I think that there is. 00:22:41.232 --> 00:22:47.327 Within the coworking industry that there can be like an a, an emphasis or an 00:22:47.327 --> 00:22:50.947 imbalance perhaps on the environment. 00:22:50.947 --> 00:22:52.177 Focus on the environment. 00:22:52.177 --> 00:22:55.867 And I've got a great coffee machine, I've got great sofas, I've got, you know, cool 00:22:55.867 --> 00:22:58.727 lighting or you know, the, whatever it is. 00:22:58.727 --> 00:22:58.737 And. 00:22:58.837 --> 00:23:04.577 If you don't have the experience of, you don't have that hospitality that matches 00:23:04.577 --> 00:23:08.837 that, then it's, it's, I think you used the expression earlier, Bernie, being 00:23:08.837 --> 00:23:14.227 soulless that you can have this fantastic space, but it's not gonna be fantastic. 00:23:14.227 --> 00:23:15.307 It's just gonna be a shell. 00:23:15.307 --> 00:23:18.487 It's just gonna be things that people sit on and they will remember the. 00:23:18.587 --> 00:23:22.947 Experience that they had perhaps somewhere else where someone remembered their name, 00:23:22.947 --> 00:23:27.067 they remembered their birthday, they saw that they were drenched that morning 00:23:27.067 --> 00:23:31.377 in the rain and like brought them a hot chocolate or something to warm them up, 00:23:31.377 --> 00:23:35.547 or, you know, whatever that is, that's, they're the moments that get remembered. 00:23:35.607 --> 00:23:39.917 Not the fact that there's a, a cool saver in the corner or whatever it is. 00:23:40.017 --> 00:23:42.997 Speaker: Yeah, there's a guy called, there's a guy called James who in 00:23:42.997 --> 00:23:47.472 Manchester who runs Clockwise and he is on Substack and he, I, I don't know if he 00:23:47.472 --> 00:23:49.392 actually does, but I, I would do this too. 00:23:49.452 --> 00:23:51.892 He, like, I know you're not supposed to make people do things, but he 00:23:51.892 --> 00:23:56.592 makes all his staff watch at Bear and reads Anthony Bourdain and 00:23:56.692 --> 00:23:58.402 Practise Unreasonable Hospitality. 00:23:58.502 --> 00:24:01.662 And I feel if I went in there which is just a coworking space,

00:24:01.762 --> 00:24:03.112 like it would all, all that. 00:24:03.212 --> 00:24:04.652 All the real deal will be happening. 00:24:04.752 --> 00:24:08.542 Whereas if I go somewhere else, there'd be the same things happening, but it would be 00:24:08.542 --> 00:24:13.242 like a probably ticking off on a clipboard somewhere to remember they had to do them. 00:24:13.342 --> 00:24:16.232 Do you wanna, is there anything you wanna add before we head for the Hills, Sonya? 00:24:16.332 --> 00:24:16.992 Speaker 5: Thanks Bernie. 00:24:16.992 --> 00:24:18.012 Yeah, I do actually. 00:24:18.012 --> 00:24:22.302 We are running, a two day event in Central London just outside of 00:24:22.302 --> 00:24:24.802 Holburn on the 10th and 11th of June. 00:24:24.802 --> 00:24:26.572 And we've got our friend Dr. 00:24:26.572 --> 00:24:29.652 JJ Peterson coming over to run the two day workshop with us. 00:24:29.652 --> 00:24:33.082 Day one is around StoryBrand, so we are gonna be working on brand scripts. 00:24:33.092 --> 00:24:37.392 For the attendees and they're gonna leave with a Brown script at the end of day one. 00:24:37.492 --> 00:24:40.942 And then day two we've got an unreasonable hospitality day. 00:24:40.942 --> 00:24:43.792 And you know, Bernie, you've been along from one of those training sessions. 00:24:43.792 --> 00:24:47.742 We delivered at Urban MBA last year and it was a taster session there. 00:24:47.742 --> 00:24:51.007 We've got a full day session, so we are working through each of those touch 00:24:51.007 --> 00:24:54.697 points, looking for some audacious ideas for people to be able to put into their 00:24:54.697 --> 00:24:57.787 business as well as kind of focusing on the low hanging fruit and ways that they 00:24:57.787 --> 00:24:59.947 can elevate each of those experiences. 00:25:00.047 --> 00:25:04.507 And both workshops are brilliant for us to deliver the Unreasonable 00:25:04.507 --> 00:25:06.977 Hospitality Day is really exciting. 00:25:07.057 --> 00:25:10.327 As far as I'm know, this is the first one to be delivered in the uk and 00:25:10.327 --> 00:25:14.827 certainly the first one with JJ who wrote the training course with Wil Guera. 00:25:14.927 --> 00:25:17.537 And we are really super excited about delivering this. 00:25:17.537 --> 00:25:19.697 It's a fantastic two day experience. 00:25:19.797 --> 00:25:23.987 And I think that coworking spaces are gonna be able to get a lot out 00:25:24.047 --> 00:25:26.337 of both days or one of the days. 00:25:26.337 --> 00:25:27.987 You know, they could come to the story brand day or they 00:25:27.987 --> 00:25:30.507 could come to the Unreasonable Hospitality Day gonna be snacks. 00:25:30.607 --> 00:25:32.197 Julie, are there gonna be snacks? 00:25:32.297 --> 00:25:33.167 Speaker 6: Definitely. 00:25:33.227 --> 00:25:33.767 Definitely. 00:25:33.767 --> 00:25:35.897 It's about unreasonable hospitality, isn't it? 00:25:35.927 --> 00:25:36.167 Yeah. 00:25:36.167 --> 00:25:40.137 There's snacks, there's teas, there's coffees, there's even a hot lunch. 00:25:40.237 --> 00:25:42.667 And I thi I think actually one you think I, 00:25:42.667 --> 00:25:45.552 Speaker 4: A hot lunch could be a whole variety of like, you know, 00:25:45.652 --> 00:25:47.702 like, is that a Greg sausage roll or a 00:25:47.802 --> 00:25:48.702 Speaker 6: Oh no, no, this 00:25:48.802 --> 00:25:49.642 Speaker 5: come and see. 00:25:49.672 --> 00:25:50.787 Speaker 6: Sit down Hot lunch. 00:25:50.887 --> 00:25:54.977 Full sit, land hot lunch in the DeVere restaurant on site. 00:25:55.077 --> 00:25:58.467 One of the most valuable things about doing these workshops is so you get 00:25:58.467 --> 00:26:02.167 to sit around the table with half a dozen other people in your small 00:26:02.167 --> 00:26:04.447 group and bounce ideas off of them. 00:26:04.547 --> 00:26:08.937 And that's the beauty of, of being in the room, networking with other people coming 00:26:08.937 --> 00:26:10.537 out with, what do you think to this? 00:26:10.537 --> 00:26:11.377 Do you think this will work? 00:26:11.377 --> 00:26:12.612 And you've got your own little kind of. 00:26:12.712 --> 00:26:14.452 Focus group ready made there. 00:26:14.552 --> 00:26:15.837 And that's, that's where you see the real. 00:26:15.937 --> 00:26:19.442 Kind of magic happen that by the end of the day end of day one, you leave 00:26:19.442 --> 00:26:22.322 with a really clear message about what you're doing for your business. 00:26:22.422 --> 00:26:27.132 And by day the end of day two, you know how to put that message into 00:26:27.132 --> 00:26:31.122 action through what you're delivering through your customer experience. 00:26:31.212 --> 00:26:33.067 So, can't wait to welcome you with that. 00:26:33.167 --> 00:26:35.887 Speaker 4: Who, if I run a business, who are the best people? 00:26:35.987 --> 00:26:38.997 Who are the best people from my business to send to this event? 00:26:39.097 --> 00:26:43.027 Is it the finance controller or is it the, I've run out words, but like who's, 00:26:43.087 --> 00:26:44.357 Speaker 6: who's, it's a good question. 00:26:44.457 --> 00:26:44.817 Yeah. 00:26:44.917 --> 00:26:47.057 I think anyone that has customer touchpoint. 00:26:47.157 --> 00:26:48.087 Is the answer. 00:26:48.117 --> 00:26:52.487 And that's, you know, can't all down, down tools and shut up shop for the day. 00:26:52.587 --> 00:26:55.797 But I think it really does help to have a variety of different people. 00:26:55.797 --> 00:26:58.377 We've worked with one business before where they had a 00:26:58.377 --> 00:27:00.547 barista, they had the founder. 00:27:00.647 --> 00:27:05.807 They had the ops manager, they had their HR manager and a couple 00:27:05.807 --> 00:27:07.007 of other people in there as well. 00:27:07.007 --> 00:27:10.587 So it was quite big coworking business with multiple sites, so 00:27:10.587 --> 00:27:12.567 they had that at their disposal. 00:27:12.667 --> 00:27:17.017 But I think if the more of a

mix of different perspectives you have in 00:27:17.017 --> 00:27:18.937 there that the more valuable it is 00:27:19.037 --> 00:27:19.787 Speaker 5: and actually. 00:27:19.887 --> 00:27:22.527 I was gonna say Ben you mentioned, you know, the financial controller 00:27:22.527 --> 00:27:25.657 and I thinking that was a little bit tongue in cheek, but genuinely 00:27:25.757 --> 00:27:30.257 we have had a, we've delivered this workshop to a team of people where 00:27:30.317 --> 00:27:34.427 if you know someone from finance and someone from Com compliance was there. 00:27:34.527 --> 00:27:38.547 And actually it was so fascinating 'cause the experience that they had. 00:27:38.647 --> 00:27:41.557 You know, was a very different experience to the people who were 00:27:41.557 --> 00:27:43.177 on the, on the front end of things. 00:27:43.177 --> 00:27:46.057 But actually when we went through the kind of customer journey mapping and 00:27:46.057 --> 00:27:50.547 looking at all the touch points for the customers, the finance side of things 00:27:50.547 --> 00:27:53.977 tended to be very you know, kind of a negative experience for the customer. 00:27:54.077 --> 00:27:57.557 And so actually in some ways, having someone from your finance department. 00:27:57.657 --> 00:28:02.607 You know, is absolutely a good place to start because you can elevate those 00:28:02.607 --> 00:28:06.177 negative touch points really well by ha by including those people from the team. 00:28:06.177 --> 00:28:09.582 So I, you know, I think definitely front of house people, definitely 00:28:09.582 --> 00:28:14.252 management, but actually there is value in having as Julie said, anybody 00:28:14.252 --> 00:28:18.412 who has a point with the customer could add value to the experience 00:28:18.412 --> 00:28:19.842 that you have in in your business. 00:28:19.942 --> 00:28:20.332 Speaker 4: I agree. 00:28:20.432 --> 00:28:23.717 And there's, there's other times where I've been to events or 00:28:23.747 --> 00:28:25.097 workshops and I've come back. 00:28:25.097 --> 00:28:29.047 There's like me and one other person and we've had to like sell the whole idea 00:28:29.047 --> 00:28:32.747 of the workshop to 50 people who don't really know what we're talking about. 00:28:32.747 --> 00:28:34.557 They just know we were not in the building for the day. 00:28:34.657 --> 00:28:36.227 So, the more people in there, the better. 00:28:36.327 --> 00:28:36.717 Okay. 00:28:36.817 --> 00:28:39.827 Where we can put a link in the show notes to all of that. 00:28:39.927 --> 00:28:41.577 Where can we find you folks online? 00:28:41.677 --> 00:28:47.727 Speaker 5: You can find us on our website at www dot story 20 co do uk. 00:28:47.827 --> 00:28:51.677 Speaker 4: So folks there's a link in the show notes to the workshop and we'll also 00:28:51.677 --> 00:28:55.277 put that in the London Coworking Assembly Newsletter and the Coworking Values 00:28:55.377 --> 00:29:00.317 podcast newsletter and we'll keep updating the details there and wherever we are in 00:29:00.317 --> 00:29:02.097 the world, folks, be careful out there. 00:29:02.127 --> 00:29:03.327 It is a jungle. 00:29:03.327 --> 00:29:04.677 Thanks for your time and attention today. 00:29:04.777 --> 00:29:05.467 Say goodbye. 00:29:05.567 --> 00:29:06.737 Speaker 5: Goodbye. 00:29:06.837 --> 00:29:07.647 Speaker 14: And we're back in the room. 00:29:07.647 --> 00:29:11.277 So as ever, go to the show notes and there's links to everything 00:29:11.277 --> 00:29:15.007 we spoke about in this podcast and even more so, there's a link to the 00:29:15.007 --> 00:29:17.047 workshop with Sonya, Julie and Dr. 00:29:17.047 --> 00:29:19.537 JJ Peterson, which is in June in London. 00:29:19.537 --> 00:29:23.817 And if you put in the Code Coworking values you'll get a mate 00:29:23.847 --> 00:29:25.957 rate for attending that workshop. 00:29:26.057 --> 00:29:29.307 Honestly, StoryBrand is one of the best in-person workshops 00:29:29.307 --> 00:29:30.597 I've ever done in my life. 00:29:30.697 --> 00:29:33.667 And also a lot of you reading this will know how important that 00:29:33.727 --> 00:29:36.937 Unreasonable Hospitality book is to any business, but especially people 00:29:36.937 --> 00:29:41.167 trying to figure out how to make their co-working space more hospitable. 00:29:41.227 --> 00:29:44.707 So also, I'm reading through my list here and I've really lost my thread. 00:29:44.807 --> 00:29:48.797 There is European Coworking Day, which is on May the sixth, and it's 00:29:48.857 --> 00:29:51.107 an annual event this year, 2026. 00:29:51.107 --> 00:29:51.917 It's May the sixth. 00:29:51.947 --> 00:29:55.107 And that's the opportunity for you to invite people from your 00:29:55.107 --> 00:29:56.817 neighbourhood into the building. 00:29:56.847 --> 00:30:00.357 There's a link in the show notes to a post that says the six things you 00:30:00.357 --> 00:30:02.037 can Do, which are really, really easy. 00:30:02.037 --> 00:30:03.597 People always overthink it. 00:30:03.597 --> 00:30:07.477 But as an industry, we need to articulate the value of our co-working 00:30:07.477 --> 00:30:10.697 spaces or our neighbourhood spaces or our work clubs, whatever you wanna 00:30:10.697 --> 00:30:12.117 call them, to our neighbourhood. 00:30:12.117 --> 00:30:16.357 It's a really, really important part of the role we play in a neighbourhood. 00:30:16.387 --> 00:30:20.107 And we'll be talking about that at the Flexor conference the 12th of May, 00:30:20.207 --> 00:30:24.327 which is in London, where there's a panel which will explore that very same 00:30:24.327 --> 00:30:25.887 thing with podcast guests from here. 00:30:25.987 --> 00:30:29.107 Last of all, there is the LinkedIn Coworking group and a lot of stuff we 00:30:29.107 --> 00:30:32.737 talk about in here, the link to the event I just spoke about is in there. 00:30:32.837 --> 00:30:37.287 And also people are always posting threads and other people post their podcasts in 00:30:37.287 --> 00:30:39.657 there and it's a great place to connect. 00:30:39.657 --> 00:30:42.657 So the more people that take part in that, as you know, community builders, 00:30:42.757 --> 00:30:45.577 the more people that take part in a community, the more valuable it is. 00:30:45.677 --> 00:30:46.637 I'm gonna leave you there. 00:30:46.737 --> 00:30:48.447 Wherever you're in the world, be careful out there. 00:30:48.507 --> 00:30:49.677 It is a jungle.