บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Exclusive Interview: RJ Christian and Cassidy Sledge of 'Dungeons & Dragons: The Twenty-Sided Tavern'

00:04:19.398 --> 00:04:22.678 up and like pick them up or we'll have two people like lifting them and like 00:04:22.678 --> 00:04:29.138 spinning them around the stage it's very silly and it's very it's very creative I. 00:04:29.138 --> 00:04:32.078 Feel like that fits so well into the tone of like when you're playing with your 00:04:32.078 --> 00:04:36.138 friends you know Just having fun on stage, playing a game. 00:04:36.398 --> 00:04:37.318 Yeah. Absolutely. 00:04:38.318 --> 00:04:43.118 I think, yeah, we're really able to capture the experience of what it feels 00:04:43.118 --> 00:04:45.698 like to be playing with just an intimate group of people. 00:04:45.898 --> 00:04:51.158 And yet, in some way, you do have a couple hundred people watching with you, 00:04:51.218 --> 00:04:53.198 but we still maintain that intimacy. 00:04:53.398 --> 00:04:56.418 And it does feel like you're playing along as an audience member. 00:04:58.140 --> 00:05:01.220 So, RJ, there actually is a lot of audience interaction, it sounds like, then. 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:05.620 Oh, my God. It is. I think it's what makes this show so great. 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:10.540 I think that's why I enjoy being in this show so much. 00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:15.240 Because for all of our, like, we're going to be the best improvisers and we're 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.360 going to be so dropped in, there's still moments we can look out. 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:20.840 You know, someone yells out a suggestion. It's like, I saw you say that. 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:22.140 You know, like, that was really cool. 00:05:22.140 --> 00:05:25.060 Or, like, that was really stupid. it and you know and i 00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:28.040 think that's the thing of like we are all 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.080 at the same table you know we're all playing and 00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:36.000 we're all like interfacing and interacting and in community with each other 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:41.980 um so there's not like this artifice of like we are the actors and you are you 00:05:41.980 --> 00:05:47.360 you must take in our beauty like it really does feel like we are in conversation 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:49.080 with the audience they're literally 00:05:49.780 --> 00:05:52.840 you know helping us succeed things or if 00:05:52.840 --> 00:05:57.520 they're feeling really naughty they're helping us fail things um so it really 00:05:57.520 --> 00:06:01.640 that we we say at the beginning of the show the fourth wall has been shattered 00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:05.820 i think that's completely true um we're looking them in the eyes we're talking 00:06:05.820 --> 00:06:10.780 to them the whole time um and i i love that aspect of the show like 00:06:10.780 --> 00:06:14.120 What an interesting concept because i feel like with so many shows you know 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.860 the audience is the audience the actors are the actors and there's not a lot 00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:20.600 of and every once in a while when you get a show where there is that interaction 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:26.380 um it does change the experience i think it it makes it even more for lack of 00:06:26.380 --> 00:06:28.880 a better term like fun like for the audience and i hope it makes it for the 00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:31.640 uh for the actors too absolutely 00:06:31.640 --> 00:06:35.960 I mean when we in the in the context of the show we have you know the three 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:39.780 players and then we have the dungeon master and the tavern keeper and so the 00:06:39.780 --> 00:06:42.820 dungeon master and tavern keeper are running the story but we have you know 00:06:42.820 --> 00:06:46.880 the three players but we usually refer to the audience as the fourth player. 00:06:47.180 --> 00:06:52.380 And one thing that is like really heavily stressed whenever we bring a new person 00:06:52.380 --> 00:06:58.420 into the community and we start, you know, rehearsing, it always feels... 00:07:01.132 --> 00:07:03.832 Not great when you're rehearsing a show and it's like 00:07:03.832 --> 00:07:06.732 we say hey buddy wait until you get an audience 00:07:06.732 --> 00:07:09.672 once the audience is there then it becomes fun 00:07:09.672 --> 00:07:12.732 because rehearsing the show with no one there 00:07:12.732 --> 00:07:19.052 to interact it's just it's it's brutal it's like it's i don't know it's like 00:07:19.052 --> 00:07:22.652 trying to do a scene with yourself in the mirror it's just like what am i doing 00:07:22.652 --> 00:07:27.252 what's happening here so it's really genuinely the success and the enjoyment 00:07:27.252 --> 00:07:30.272 of the show completely depends on the audience i. 00:07:30.272 --> 00:07:34.332 Mean not even to plus one that there's 00:07:34.332 --> 00:07:37.432 so many times where the show has been reared into 00:07:37.432 --> 00:07:40.632 a different direction because of like the first name 00:07:40.632 --> 00:07:44.712 that an audience shouts out you know it's like we're gonna name the bartender 00:07:44.712 --> 00:07:49.712 santa claus okay now we're in a christmas story and then another audience member 00:07:49.712 --> 00:07:53.872 is like that's a great idea and then the wizard comes in and he's rudolph and 00:07:53.872 --> 00:07:58.092 so now the suddenly the show is christmas because they've said it so and i think 00:07:58.092 --> 00:08:00.552 that what makes you know turns a good show from a great show 00:08:00.552 --> 00:08:01.032 Is 00:08:01.032 --> 00:08:05.112 When they're really like we are gonna we're gonna help you craft this story 00:08:05.112 --> 00:08:10.572 but by what names we throw out or by what curveballs we throw at you to make you slip up 00:08:10.572 --> 00:08:12.392 Yeah you. 00:08:12.392 --> 00:08:15.192 Know when you're talking about the rehearsal process and you know you're kind 00:08:15.192 --> 00:08:19.232 of missing that person you can feel that when you do dnd as well like when one 00:08:19.232 --> 00:08:21.692 of your

people aren't there and you almost have to turn them into an npc like 00:08:21.692 --> 00:08:25.252 it doesn't feel right like there isn't that same interaction so i could i could 00:08:25.252 --> 00:08:28.412 assume like how difficult it would feel to somebody who's just coming in to 00:08:28.412 --> 00:08:31.112 rehearse being like what do i do with this you know 00:08:31.112 --> 00:08:34.012 Oh absolutely and you know we have several moments where 00:08:34.012 --> 00:08:37.172 we actually have full-on conversations with individual 00:08:37.172 --> 00:08:40.732 audience members where we pull audience members on stage at 00:08:40.732 --> 00:08:44.232 one point like we have oh i don't want to spoil too much because i know you 00:08:44.232 --> 00:08:49.172 haven't seen it yet but there is there is a moment where an audience member 00:08:49.172 --> 00:08:54.852 is a very important pivotal role in the show and doing Rehearsing it without 00:08:54.852 --> 00:08:59.812 the fourth player is a challenge. Yeah. 00:09:01.597 --> 00:09:06.077 RJ, what is it kind of like? Because it sounds like you mentioned the word improv. 00:09:07.397 --> 00:09:11.097 Maybe that was for our entry because now we've been talking so much, 00:09:11.177 --> 00:09:12.957 I kind of forget. But it sounds like there's a little bit of improv. 00:09:13.097 --> 00:09:15.077 There's a little bit there. How do you rehearse for something like that? 00:09:15.217 --> 00:09:18.677 How do you prepare for a show that can change on the fly so much? 00:09:19.337 --> 00:09:24.257 That's a very interesting question. I feel like we really just started doing 00:09:24.257 --> 00:09:29.817 a couple of improv exercises and then we looked at our characters and then it 00:09:29.817 --> 00:09:31.297 felt like we started doing the show. 00:09:31.597 --> 00:09:37.777 Like, it really was this assumption of, like, the things you are going to improvise are going to be funny. 00:09:37.837 --> 00:09:41.057 We assume that we're not going to teach you how to do improv. 00:09:41.477 --> 00:09:45.157 We're going to teach you how this show best works structurally, 00:09:45.597 --> 00:09:50.857 best practices, and how to make sure you don't go over time. 00:09:51.097 --> 00:09:54.477 And we trust you're going to be funny. And, of course, we've gotten shaped in 00:09:54.477 --> 00:09:59.317 terms of, like, what the best way to feed into a story that's already going on is. 00:10:00.297 --> 00:10:04.037 And what sort of like themes will hit deeper. 00:10:04.277 --> 00:10:08.017 But I think there was this assumption of like, you all are funny. 00:10:08.017 --> 00:10:10.837 We saw that. We are not going to worry about that. 00:10:11.077 --> 00:10:15.377 We just want to get this show to be structurally sound and be a game that can 00:10:15.377 --> 00:10:16.957 be easily played by everyone. 00:10:18.359 --> 00:10:21.319 So really, they're just kind of giving you the framework and they say, have fun within it. 00:10:22.479

--> 00:10:25.519 Essentially, yeah. And sometimes we've had too much fun. I've gotten an email 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:29.979 about it. But, you know, we have a reasonable amount of fun. 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:37.939 So, Cassidy, within that framework, then, is there like, do you know where the show should end? 00:10:37.999 --> 00:10:42.059 Or like, it could depend on what happens within the confines of who's talking. 00:10:42.719 --> 00:10:48.779 So what's really interesting is, had you asked us this question a year ago, 00:10:48.899 --> 00:10:51.139 I would have said, yeah, we always know where the show is going to end. 00:10:51.139 --> 00:10:55.959 But we started toying around with having guest stars come in, 00:10:56.219 --> 00:11:01.299 and we had Felicia Day and Abrea Eingart and Erica Ishii and Anjali Bimani and 00:11:01.299 --> 00:11:05.599 Jack Zewhipper and Travis McElroy and Samantha Bayard. 00:11:05.779 --> 00:11:07.339 And I'm going to try and get everyone. 00:11:08.059 --> 00:11:12.359 Neil Newborn and Debra Wilde. Damn, am I missing someone? 00:11:12.619 --> 00:11:14.639 If you miss someone, they're going to be real mad at you. 00:11:14.839 --> 00:11:18.319 I sincerely apologize if I skipped someone. but 00:11:18.319 --> 00:11:21.379 the thrilling thing about it specifically with felicia because 00:11:21.379 --> 00:11:24.199 she was the very first guest star we had there was 00:11:24.199 --> 00:11:27.619 a moment where we had you know just like a really standard 00:11:27.619 --> 00:11:33.339 basic like i think it was a carpenter uh just an npc trying to help the heroes 00:11:33.339 --> 00:11:36.899 out in their quest and felicia just goes yeah can i i want to shoot a fireball 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:42.359 at him and we were like oh oh no sorry this is the part sorry you you're new 00:11:42.359 --> 00:11:47.199 this is where we do improv in the scene and she's like no no i want to i just want I kill him. 00:11:47.999 --> 00:11:53.439 And we were like, can, can we even, is that thing that, is that something we 00:11:53.439 --> 00:11:58.059 can technically make happen? And so we tried the fireball effect and it worked. And we were like, 00:11:59.230 --> 00:12:02.770 okay, yep, I guess you can kill this NBC. 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:07.110 And so like every guest star has come in and said, I want to do this thing. 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:10.270 And it's like everyone on stage, it's like record scratch, freeze frame. 00:12:11.510 --> 00:12:15.650 Like, can you do that? And then the answer's always been yes. 00:12:15.970 --> 00:12:23.930 And so what used to be this pretty, pretty solid story arc has now become characters 00:12:23.930 --> 00:12:27.450 will die, characters will come back to life, Characters will sabotage each other. 00:12:27.590 --> 00:12:29.550 Sometimes the party will turn on themselves. 00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:35.010 And it's things that, like, maybe in a regular D&D campaign would occur to you. 00:12:35.130 --> 00:12:38.950

But, like, on this stage, in this context, we never thought of before. 00:12:40.410 --> 00:12:46.690 Like, even, like, you know, we have this wizard. And I'm going to try to speak in veiled terms. 00:12:47.730 --> 00:12:52.290 Essentially, like, you know, you need this thing in order to complete the ritual. 00:12:52.290 --> 00:12:55.750 And for some of these shows we were like we need these things to complete the 00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:57.190 ritual but at some point we were like 00:12:57.810 --> 00:13:01.050 what if we're not right, what if we're wrong what if we don't, 00:13:01.150 --> 00:13:06.170 what if we can do it our own way what if I can do that part what if I can make 00:13:06.170 --> 00:13:08.250 this magical item and it's sort of like 00:13:09.050 --> 00:13:13.850 it's as true as the dungeon master wants it to be on that day 00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:21.470 the show is so broken open and so different I mean we've had people come and saw it Like 50, 00:13:22.130 --> 00:13:28.570 60, I don't know what the max number is, but like we've managed to like keep 00:13:28.570 --> 00:13:31.490 it growing and expanding as we've gone on it. 00:13:31.570 --> 00:13:35.150 And I think it's made everyone the more satisfied for it. 00:13:36.247 --> 00:13:39.047 And it's kind of cool when you have a show that you can go back to every time. 00:13:39.047 --> 00:13:41.627 I had a friend who actually lived in Chicago and saw it multiple times. 00:13:42.027 --> 00:13:45.127 And she said, you're going to have so much fun because it's not the same show. 00:13:45.347 --> 00:13:49.087 Every time you go in there, it's something different. And that's what makes it so unique. 00:13:49.687 --> 00:13:55.127 Yeah. I also think part of what's very exciting is, like, if you just get a 00:13:55.127 --> 00:13:59.807 show that's, like, just the core cast, we kind of sort of have this, like, 00:14:00.607 --> 00:14:05.307 internal language and, like, this rhythm that's just really fun and works really well for the story. 00:14:05.307 --> 00:14:08.927 But if you get a guest star like, for example, Jack Lepiars, 00:14:09.067 --> 00:14:12.507 Jack's the Whipper, a lot of his internet presence is like dealing with hecklers. 00:14:12.787 --> 00:14:16.127 And so a lot of audience members will take it upon themselves to heckle. 00:14:16.287 --> 00:14:21.747 And so then that show will be so much more like about the interactions between 00:14:21.747 --> 00:14:22.927 the cast and the audience. 00:14:23.327 --> 00:14:25.727 Whereas, oh, Damien Haas, that's where I skipped. I'm sorry, 00:14:25.847 --> 00:14:31.587 Damien. If you have a show with Damien, Damien was a really, 00:14:31.767 --> 00:14:35.967 really strong improviser because much of his content is about creating these short form narratives. 00:14:36.247 --> 00:14:39.907 So his audience members were like, I don't want to say reserved, 00:14:40.147 --> 00:14:44.587 but just very, very locked in and very there for the narrative. 00:14:44.587 --> 00:14:49.267 Like D&D, the actual mechanics, when we were getting creative with those, 00:14:49.467 --> 00:14:50.967 they weren't super excited about it. 00:14:51.067 --> 00:14:55.427 But any time there was like rich world building, character relationship building, 00:14:55.687 --> 00:14:57.667 they were like so sat for it. 00:14:57.727 --> 00:15:00.427 And it's it just depends on also the audience. 00:15:00.707 --> 00:15:03.867 It's oh, it's very it's a very fun. This is a fun gig. 00:15:05.627 --> 00:15:09.427 Speaking of all of those different like guest stars and stuff, 00:15:09.607 --> 00:15:12.567 you like obviously you see him on TikTok. You see people talking about them. 00:15:12.567 --> 00:15:15.807 And there's all of the ones that you could tell there's a different feel, 00:15:15.947 --> 00:15:17.167 like you said, to each one of them. 00:15:17.347 --> 00:15:20.067 And I was sending them to my business partner and being like, 00:15:20.227 --> 00:15:24.787 this is going to be a great show because of this kind of comedy that they have. 00:15:24.847 --> 00:15:26.307 And it's over his head. He doesn't do D&D. 00:15:26.447 --> 00:15:30.167 So he's just like, what does this mean? I was like, well, Jack's the Whipper, he's so... 00:15:31.206 --> 00:15:36.566 He thinks on the fly very quickly. So that fits really well into a structure such as this. 00:15:37.126 --> 00:15:42.186 Yeah, absolutely. It's really interesting. You know, I think every guest star 00:15:42.186 --> 00:15:43.906 has their own flavor of comedy. 00:15:44.186 --> 00:15:50.546 So like Jax is very meta and Travis McElroy's was very, very dry, 00:15:50.546 --> 00:15:55.206 but it was almost always in character. It was very rarely like for the audience. 00:15:55.766 --> 00:15:56.346 Sure. 00:15:56.646 --> 00:15:57.366 I think, yeah. 00:15:58.626 --> 00:16:06.246 Um so you know archie you had mentioned kind of this this idea that um you it's 00:16:06.246 --> 00:16:10.366 the story changes and that things happen and stuff like that does that keep 00:16:10.366 --> 00:16:14.086 you on your toes more than as as an actor on stage because it's not like you're 00:16:14.086 --> 00:16:17.426 playing like a role all the way through every single night it's exactly the same 00:16:17.426 --> 00:16:20.806 It it really really does um 00:16:20.806 --> 00:16:23.746 the biggest skill i think i've 00:16:23.746 --> 00:16:26.786 had to learn is is really how to to listen 00:16:26.786 --> 00:16:30.746 and be interested in 00:16:30.746 --> 00:16:33.826 what this other person is giving 00:16:33.826 --> 00:16:37.026 me and not assuming that it's like the show we did you 00:16:37.026 --> 00:16:43.386 know two weeks ago you know to really be like oh today chester wants to start 00:16:43.386 --> 00:16:48.886 a business you know and like listening to and not assuming that it's like oh 00:16:48.886 --> 00:16:52.146 he wants he's done this three weeks ago blah blah blah this time it could be,

00:16:52.306 --> 00:16:54.346 I want to start a business to make my father proud. 00:16:55.359 --> 00:16:58.399 You know, I want to start a business to raise money to help you guys out. 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.059 I want to start a business so I can become the richest man in the world. 00:17:01.239 --> 00:17:05.579 And really getting interested in the specifics and what these other people are 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:10.759 throwing at you is it is sometimes very difficult. 00:17:10.879 --> 00:17:14.739 And sometimes, well, every time it gives you the best dividends. 00:17:14.739 --> 00:17:20.979 Um, and I think that's what makes it, what makes it awesome about us being together 00:17:20.979 --> 00:17:28.659 for so long is that I think that we can hear that, like that request in the words, you know, 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:34.199 we do these things often with, with spells like, um, conjure animals, for instance, 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:40.439 where some will be like, and I wave my magic wand around and I conjure a sea 00:17:40.439 --> 00:17:42.779 of rats to come and strike you. 00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:46.379 And it's like the pace of which they're saying it you know they might make eye 00:17:46.379 --> 00:17:51.499 contact it's like oh you want us to play the rats oh i got i i understand what 00:17:51.499 --> 00:17:57.139 you're saying you know it's like i'm in my spectral horse it's like oh you want me to be the horse 00:17:58.919 --> 00:18:02.039 And it's because we've been together for so long we know like okay 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:05.019 this is i'm waiting for the request there it is i 00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:08.059 know what you need i got you um and those 00:18:08.059 --> 00:18:11.639 are the moments that i think can really feel like almost like a sport of like 00:18:11.639 --> 00:18:14.899 how are we going to construct this thing with the things we have on stage and 00:18:14.899 --> 00:18:20.319 these bodies and go uh and that's i think those are the most electric like on 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:25.279 my toes moments it's like how what are you going to ask for in code and how 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.079 i'm going to give it to you so 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.719 It's a little bit like mind reading you have to be like you have to be able 00:18:29.719 --> 00:18:32.079 to pick up on all the body language all the eye contact 00:18:38.159 --> 00:18:44.899 yes um so with this being a show based off dnd cassidy do you feel like they're 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:48.699 like for audiences i think like i have some people that i've even i've talked 00:18:48.699 --> 00:18:51.579 to have said like oh i don't know much about dnd so i don't know if there's 00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:54.239 a show for me do you feel like you need to have this base knowledge of dnd or 00:18:54.239 --> 00:18:56.099 do you feel like it's accessible to all audiences yeah 00:18:56.809 --> 00:19:01.589 I think that it is accessible to all audiences specifically because we do have 00:19:01.589 --> 00:19:05.549 a like a five, 10 minute section at the top of the show where we kind of sort 00:19:05.549 --> 00:19:10.209 of have like a really quick crash course about, hey, this is how D&D is played. 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:14.389 It all just kind of boils down to you're going to roll a 20 sided die. 00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:17.049 And the higher the number is, the better you do on the thing. 00:19:17.329 --> 00:19:19.769 If you roll low, bad stuff happens. 00:19:20.169 --> 00:19:27.389 Oh, OK, start the show. And so, like, beyond that, I think very rarely we will get, like, 00:19:27.949 --> 00:19:31.029 super in the weeds about mechanics, but more often than not, 00:19:31.189 --> 00:19:36.249 we have, the language we use is TST-ified Dungeons and Dragons. 00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:40.449 So we have, like, roles for everything, first and foremost. 00:19:40.669 --> 00:19:45.689 So, for example, Magic Missile is a spell that automatically hits in D&D. 00:19:46.009 --> 00:19:49.509 But on stage, we need to make it a little exciting. 00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.389 We need to have uh you know some kind of stakes so we 00:19:52.389 --> 00:19:55.129 do have our players roll for magic missile as well to see 00:19:55.129 --> 00:19:58.049 if it can hit so it's like we we 00:19:58.049 --> 00:20:05.089 simplify things we we make mechanics just kind of sort of um like bite-sized 00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:09.749 easy chunks to just you know and like keep the story going because the worst 00:20:09.749 --> 00:20:15.089 part personal opinion the worst part of any dnd session is always combat because 00:20:15.089 --> 00:20:17.109 you always get bogged down in everything. 00:20:17.709 --> 00:20:21.789 And so I think one thing we do really, really well is the simplification of 00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:26.529 the rules in order to prioritize the narrative and the plot. 00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:30.889 And so as an audience member, the most important thing is if you like watching 00:20:30.889 --> 00:20:34.489 a story being told, then you will enjoy TSD. 00:20:36.149 --> 00:20:41.269 I think, RJ, that's super important because, you know, I have friends who have, 00:20:41.409 --> 00:20:44.149 you know, their kids or, you know, they're taking their nephews or nieces and 00:20:44.149 --> 00:20:46.009 they're like, I've never rolled the dice before in my life. 00:20:46.129 --> 00:20:50.329 So to be able to say, like, they can still go and enjoy this is it opens it 00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:53.829 up to everybody and makes it more, you know, enjoyable. 00:20:54.369 --> 00:21:00.189 I mean, I think that at the core of it is like, this is a story we're going to tell you. 00:21:00.909 --> 00:21:04.249 We don't know if we're going to succeed or fail. we we 00:21:04.249 --> 00:21:10.089 have no idea that all comes down to us rolling these like you know little pieces 00:21:10.089 --> 00:21:14.469 of resin that have numbers on them and we're gonna and us listening to them

00:21:14.469 --> 00:21:21.009 in with intrigue and authority like that really is like you know if we didn't 00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:22.749 have the dice i think this would be 00:21:23.989 --> 00:21:28.509 dare i say a less interesting show because then it's like oh i go and talk to 00:21:28.509 --> 00:21:32.369 him and he likes me But what if I, you know, what if I am the most charming 00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:33.649 person and I still fail that? 00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:38.449 How electric, right? Like, there was a show where I was playing this character, 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:45.129 Tamberlane, who his whole thing is he's a sexy bard and has a silver tongue. 00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:49.909 And from the start, I was like, I've got this. I'll convince the ball attendant to let us off on Tam. 00:21:50.189 --> 00:21:53.929 And I failed it. And the next thing I did, I failed that too. 00:21:54.129 --> 00:21:57.269 And then the story became about Tamberlane losing his touch. 00:21:57.269 --> 00:22:00.349 Because what he could do before was failing. 00:22:00.669 --> 00:22:02.969 And that was all from the dykes. 00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:06.289 That was not from my brain. It was like, you were failing today. 00:22:07.729 --> 00:22:15.189 And that is true. And away we go. And that's at the heart of Dungeons & Dragons, right? 00:22:15.809 --> 00:22:19.789 How do we make this failure into the best story we can tell? 00:22:20.109 --> 00:22:26.709 How do we justify that in this grand epic that we are inventing on the spot? 00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:32.210 I, you know, I, again, played years and years of D&D, and some of the best moments 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:33.910 are when things just happen unexpectedly. 00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:36.710 I mean, to this day, I was at a wedding this weekend, and my friend was like, 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:39.170 I remember years ago, we had a battle. 00:22:39.370 --> 00:22:42.130 We were battling a bear, and we ended up killing it. 00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:44.830 And then he was like, yep, and there was a baby bear watching and stuff. 00:22:44.910 --> 00:22:46.210 And I said, I'm going to take it as my pet. 00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:48.510 And he goes, you have to get a nat 20 to do that. And I did. 00:22:48.610 --> 00:22:50.710 And so for the rest of the game, I just had a bear. 00:22:51.990 --> 00:22:56.030 We still talk about that because it's just something so unexpected because those 00:22:56.030 --> 00:22:58.370 dice, they do the game for you. 00:22:59.070 --> 00:23:05.150 Yeah, we there are some we actually had like a little whiteboard backstage when we were off Broadway. 00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:10.870 And any time a player would like roll something crazy, we would like nickname 00:23:10.870 --> 00:23:15.170 whatever the role was after like the person's last name, something like that. 00:23:15.170 --> 00:23:17.870 And so like uh i'm trying to think 00:23:17.870 --> 00:23:20.790 i know that mine uh was nicknamed the sledgehammer and 00:23:20.790 --> 00:23:23.950 it was rolling two nat 20s on disadvantage because that 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:27.050 happened like one time in front of an audience and i was like this is the sickest 00:23:27.050 --> 00:23:32.730 thing that's ever happened like we each have like a like a cast member role 00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:36.950 that's like this crazy unlikely thing that happens but for whatever reason this 00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:41.090 person has done it like three or four times yep um. 00:23:41.090 --> 00:23:45.110 That's really awesome like so everybody can get their own individual like this 00:23:45.110 --> 00:23:47.070 is my special role if it happens i guess 00:23:47.070 --> 00:23:50.070 Yeah absolutely um. 00:23:50.070 --> 00:23:54.730 With the you know you said sometimes we win sometimes we fail which one's more 00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:58.710 fun for you guys you know on stage is it better to like have a story that fails 00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:02.450 or like or a mission that fails or to have something that succeeds 00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:05.410 You want to go first i. 00:24:05.410 --> 00:24:14.650 Know what you're gonna say you dirty dirty dog you I think for me rather than 00:24:14.650 --> 00:24:18.050 it being a dichotomy of succeeding and failing I think it is 00:24:19.405 --> 00:24:25.125 How do we make like if it's satisfying at the end, like if these characters 00:24:25.125 --> 00:24:28.325 have completed an arc, even if that 00:24:28.325 --> 00:24:33.845 arc ends in like we I die at the final chamber and I don't make it home. 00:24:34.165 --> 00:24:39.025 Like, I think the greatest shows have that, you know, that perfect. 00:24:39.185 --> 00:24:43.445 We somehow set this up in the beginning that this would be like, 00:24:43.645 --> 00:24:44.465 you know, which is impossible. 00:24:44.485 --> 00:24:48.425 We don't know what's going to happen. And yet sometimes it does that. It's super electric. 00:24:49.925 --> 00:24:53.025 And so I think a failure can be just as good. 00:24:53.285 --> 00:24:57.825 I think part of it's like, on the other hand, it's a game, and I want to win the game. 00:24:58.085 --> 00:25:06.505 Sure. I'm trying fairly hard to not die and get good items and use my best skills. 00:25:07.645 --> 00:25:15.025 So part of me is like, I want to win. But I think that either way can be satisfying if we, you know, 00:25:15.125 --> 00:25:23.225 use our spider sense and try to craft a story that can end in failure in a satisfying way. 00:25:24.798 --> 00:25:27.918 That's a beautiful answer. I love that. It's all, you know, it's all kind of 00:25:27.918 --> 00:25:29.638 about the narrative and what fits it. 00:25:30.338 --> 00:25:32.118 And Cassidy's a sadist. 00:25:32.758 --> 00:25:37.298 I was going to say, she's over there like, um, I like a failure. Me? 00:25:38.758 --> 00:25:44.038 I love it when I'm able to make a TPK happen. It's only happened two or three 00:25:44.038 --> 00:25:47.538 times, I think, for me when

I've been the dungeon master. 00:25:47.538 --> 00:25:50.658 I also i think there's just something about 00:25:50.658 --> 00:25:53.638 like my little like goblin brain of 00:25:53.638 --> 00:25:56.678 just like wanting the rare thing to happen more 00:25:56.678 --> 00:25:59.678 often and the truly the rarest 00:25:59.678 --> 00:26:02.638 ending we have is a full failure there are 00:26:02.638 --> 00:26:05.458 like ultimately with all of 00:26:05.458 --> 00:26:08.538 the options of uh you know as an audience member you play along 00:26:08.538 --> 00:26:11.538 you decide where we go who we meet and literally 00:26:11.538 --> 00:26:15.038 how the story ends and through all of those decisions 00:26:15.038 --> 00:26:18.418 we have uh uh the script like it branches and 00:26:18.418 --> 00:26:21.378 it branches and it branches depending on do we go this way or this way okay this 00:26:21.378 --> 00:26:26.858 way this way this way so there's like something around like 400 000 possible 00:26:26.858 --> 00:26:30.338 combinations of things you can see on stage and that's before you even bring 00:26:30.338 --> 00:26:33.438 any of the improv into it before you even bring any of the characters into it 00:26:33.438 --> 00:26:37.298 before you bring into who is playing what character like it's truly there are 00:26:37.298 --> 00:26:40.498 an infinite number of possibilities but that being said. 00:26:41.533 --> 00:26:48.273 The show can sort of be really, really simplified into four different types of endings. 00:26:48.533 --> 00:26:53.413 Either perfect, full success, mixed success, mixed failure, or full failure. 00:26:53.653 --> 00:26:58.693 And the rarest by far is full failure because a lot of people have to die. 00:26:58.693 --> 00:27:00.313 You have to fail a lot of things. 00:27:00.453 --> 00:27:03.393 People have to take a lot of damage. And the audience has to do really poorly 00:27:03.393 --> 00:27:04.713 on their challenges as well. 00:27:04.713 --> 00:27:12.073 So that i think it's only happened like 30 or 40 times out of the 450 shows we've had so far, 00:27:12.853 --> 00:27:15.833 and so just for the the sake of 00:27:15.833 --> 00:27:18.813 the text that i get to read as a dungeon master at 00:27:18.813 --> 00:27:21.833 the very very end of the full failure it's 00:27:21.833 --> 00:27:25.073 like there's so much gravitas there and it's just like man 00:27:25.073 --> 00:27:28.193 faerun is going to be changed and not for the better like you 00:27:28.193 --> 00:27:30.993 failed this horrible energy is 00:27:30.993 --> 00:27:34.113 going to continue to seep out and other heroes 00:27:34.113 --> 00:27:37.373 are going to have to work a hell of a lot harder tomorrow to overcome this 00:27:37.373 --> 00:27:40.253 obstacle and i think that just kind of sort of being 00:27:40.253 --> 00:27:43.033 able to say like hey guys the story we 00:27:43.033 --> 00:27:48.673 told has consequences and it's just it's very exciting because the ending of 00:27:48.673 --> 00:27:53.053 the show affects how difficult the show is the next day so if we get a full 00:27:53.053 --> 00:27:56.793 failure then the next show is going to be like the dcs and everything are going 00:27:56.793 --> 00:28:00.273 to be much higher it's it's very it's It's a fun mechanic, yeah. 00:28:01.536 --> 00:28:07.396 That's super awesome. I, you know, I, I, I love that you got excited about that 00:28:07.396 --> 00:28:10.436 because there is some, there a little bit, there has to be some energy for that. 00:28:10.796 --> 00:28:12.296 And Audrey's like, what are they on over here? 00:28:14.616 --> 00:28:19.876 This person is crazy. They want us to die. I do. 00:28:20.096 --> 00:28:20.756 I really do. 00:28:22.216 --> 00:28:25.536 So with that, I just want to thank you so much for both of you being here. 00:28:25.636 --> 00:28:26.876 It's been a pleasure chatting with you. 00:28:27.856 --> 00:28:30.356 And again, we're looking forward to seeing the show. So thank you for your time. 00:28:30.896 --> 00:28:32.576 Thank you so much. We had so much fun. 00:28:33.376 --> 00:28:37.116 So Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided Tavern arrives at the Fisher Theater on November 00:28:37.116 --> 00:28:40.256 1st for two performances. So get your tickets now and we'll see you at the show. 00:28:40.996 --> 00:28:41.856 Bye, friends. 00:28:42.216 --> 00:28:42.636 Bye.