บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 79 Rebecca Murphy, Novelist

00:03:16,541 Sometimes I can see it as if I'm seeing it on stage. 78 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:19,208 And I can kind of see down to the deep. 79 00:03:19,208 --> 00:03:21,041 And I suppose I would have been an actor as well. 80 00:03:21,291 --> 00:03:23,916 And like I would have done a lot of acting as part of studying drama. 81 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:27,041 And sometimes when I'm writing a character doing something, 82 00:03:27,041 --> 00:03:30,041 I can almost imagine how I would perform it. 83 00:03:30,041 --> 00:03:32,458 And even the actions and hands, I'm a bit obsessed with hands. 84 00:03:32,625 --> 00:03:36,500 And so like I often see that in terms of in my mind's eye. 85 00:03:36,541 --> 00:03:38,750 And then the frustrating thing is that sometimes you're struggling 86 00:03:38,750 --> 00:03:39,833 to get that onto the paper. 87 00:03:39,916 --> 00:03:41,000 So I'm like, I could see it. 88 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,541 I can see it happening in front of me. 89 00:03:42,833 --> 00:03:45,375 And then it's just to get it out there in a way that does it justice. 90 00:03:45,666 --> 00:03:46,666 And so I definitely think the 91 00:03:46,666 --> 00:03:48,875 training that I would have got over the years 92 00:03:48,875 --> 00:03:52,291 in studying drama and studying theatre definitely adds to that. 93 00:03:52,291 --> 00:03:54,791 And I suppose as well, just even learning about structure, 94 00:03:54,791 --> 00:03:57,000 learning about storytelling again, you 95 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,583 know, knowing where you've come from, 96 00:03:59,625 --> 00:04:01,583 you know, and as a species in terms 97 00:04:01,583 --> 00:04:03,000 of I would have studied, you know, 98 00:04:03,083 --> 00:04:05,583 when I was in UCC, we would have studied the Greeks, you know, 99 00:04:05,583 --> 00:04:08,166 and the Greek theatre and, you know, how we've been telling 100 00:04:08,333 --> 00:04:11,333 similar stories for thousands of years as a species. 101 00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:14,041 And there aren't really any original stories, you know, 102 00:04:14,375 --> 00:04:16,000 that everything is kind of a variation 103 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,416 of something that has been told before. 104 00:04:18,583 --> 00:04:21,666 And that's great because it's brilliant to have different voices, 105 00:04:21,666 --> 00:04:23,125 bringing different realities in. 106 00:04:23,583 --> 00:04:25,625 So, yes, I think it has influenced my 107 00:04:25,625 --> 00:04:28,375 craft, really, the kind of the storytelling 108 00:04:28,375 --> 00:04:31,833 and the stage writing and the playwriting and the acting as well, 109 00:04:31,833 --> 00:04:33,666 I think definitely in a number of different ways. 110 00:04:33,958 --> 00:04:36,875 Okay. And you've spoken like before that 111 00:04:36,875 --> 00:04:40,708 you have a wide range of literary inferences. 112 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,833 How did these diverse voices come 113 00:04:43,833 --> 00:04:46,583 together to shape your own unique writing style? 114 00:04:47,625 --> 00:04:49,791 I wrote or said some recently that I 115 00:04:49,791 --> 00:04:52,250 think if I hadn't ever read Roald Dahl, 116 00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:53,708 I don't think I would have become a writer. 117 00:04:53,708 --> 00:04:55,500 And I know we have modern problems 118 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:57,500 with Roald Dahl, let's leave it at that. 119 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:01,000 But like, I think that when I read him as a child, 120 00:05:01,041 --> 00:05:04,875 it was one of the few writers that I felt really got me as a child, 121 00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:08,208 like in terms of, you know, the kind of kids are kind of weirdos, 122 00:05:08,208 --> 00:05:09,541 like in the best kind of way, you know, 123 00:05:09,541 --> 00:05:11,125 they love a bit of naughtiness and a bit of 124 00:05:11,125 --> 00:05:13,291 boldness and someone saying something a bit, 125 00:05:13,291 --> 00:05:15,416 you know, kind of outrageous and adults 126 00:05:15,416 --> 00:05:17,375 getting in trouble and children getting in trouble. 127 00:05:17,375 --> 00:05:19,875 And I think that for me is probably the first 128 00:05:19,875 --> 00:05:21,500 time that I probably read something and went, 129 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:23,041 "Oh my God, this is amazing." 130 00:05:23,041 --> 00:05:24,875 Like, and I genuinely, I don't know if I'd 131 00:05:24,875 --> 00:05:27,166 have become a writer because he was the person 132 00:05:27,166 --> 00:05:27,875 who got me reading. 133 00:05:27,875 --> 00:05:30,416 I turned me into an absolute reading monster. 134 00:05:30,791 --> 00:05:34,750 And I think he probably does, because blood and water isn't at all. 135 00:05:34,916 --> 00:05:36,083 There's no Roald Dahl in there. 136 00:05:36,458 --> 00:05:39,166 But I think probably in a lot of short stories that I would write, 137 00:05:39,166 --> 00:05:40,583 there'd be a little bit more of kind 138 00:05:40,583 --> 00:05:42,666 of the Roald Dahl sort of influence. 139 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,666 The Stephen King influence as well, because I love Stephen King. 140 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:47,375 And I think that, and then I know 141 00:05:47,375 --> 00:05:49,416 I've mentioned like, writers like so, 142 00:05:49,666 --> 00:05:52,750 there's Anne Enright, Donal Ryan would be another writer, 143 00:05:52,750 --> 00:05:56,291 an Irish writer that I absolutely love and Maeve Binchy then a classic. 144 00:05:56,291 --> 00:05:58,958 And I suppose one of the things I love, 145 00:05:58,958 --> 00:06:02,125 and I particularly think of Maeve Binchy when I'm kind of writing, 146 00:06:02,541 --> 00:06:04,833 a lot of my stuff is the kind of the 147 00:06:04,833 --> 00:06:08,041 ordinary lives kind of revealed and the mundane. 148 00:06:08,041 --> 00:06:09,708 And I don't mean that in an insulting way, but like, 149 00:06:10,041 --> 00:06:12,625 like ordinary people's lives are so full of 150 00:06:12,625 --> 00:06:17,416 richness and sadness and joy and heartache 151

00:06:17,416 --> 00:06:19,083 and love and loss. 152 00:06:19,083 --> 00:06:20,958 And I just think we don't need it. 153 00:06:21,375 --> 00:06:22,833 We could say in just an ordinary 154 00:06:22,833 --> 00:06:24,875 person's life and just write stories about them, 155 00:06:24,875 --> 00:06:26,916 we don't ever really have to bring in the supernatural. 156 00:06:26,916 --> 00:06:28,375 Sometimes I like doing that elsewhere. 157 00:06:28,625 --> 00:06:29,791 I think I just love that. 158 00:06:29,791 --> 00:06:31,583 And I love that we can elevate those stories. 159 00:06:31,583 --> 00:06:33,708 And I think Donal Ryan is very similar as well, 160 00:06:33,875 --> 00:06:35,958 ordinary Irish people and those stories. 161 00:06:36,250 --> 00:06:39,166 And I read kind of a lot of different stuff. 162 00:06:39,458 --> 00:06:42,916 And it was a challenge then, you're trying not to be anyone, 163 00:06:42,958 --> 00:06:44,166 but you're just sort of, you know, 164 00:06:44,166 --> 00:06:46,375 and you're hoping that you could maybe 165 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:50,041 emulate them in some ways, even in terms of the quality of it. 166 00:06:50,041 --> 00:06:52,083 But I think it comes in in lots of different ways. 167 00:06:52,083 --> 00:06:55,000 But I think definitely for me, I kind of love that sort of, 168 00:06:55,416 --> 00:06:58,208 that ordinary life kind of excavation, I guess. 169 00:06:58,541 --> 00:06:59,583 I mean, yeah. 170 00:07:00,666 --> 00:07:01,208 Yeah. 171 00:07:01,208 --> 00:07:01,625 Yeah. 172 00:07:01,625 --> 00:07:03,458 You know, I just think I think there's 173 00:07:03,458 --> 00:07:05,791 so much richness just in everyday things 174 00:07:05,791 --> 00:07:09,125 that can happen, you know, and you hear some stories and yeah, 175 00:07:09,166 --> 00:07:11,791 like I remember when I was campaigning for the referendum, 176 00:07:11,833 --> 00:07:14,500 the marriage referendum, like 11 years ago now. 177 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:16,500 And I was doing loads of canvassing 178 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:18,458 and I was talking to so many people 179 00:07:18,750 --> 00:07:20,666 and people just tell you their stories, you know, 180 00:07:21,291 --> 00:07:22,041 and I'm very chatty. 181 00:07:22,041 --> 00:07:23,291 So people just tell me things right. 182 00:07:23,291 --> 00:07:25,125 And I just remember coming away from 183 00:07:25,125 --> 00:07:27,916 going just like the things that are going on 184 00:07:27,916 --> 00:07:30,250 in people's lives and the things that have happened. 185 00:07:30,250 --> 00:07:31,000 I just I just find it. 186 00:07:31,041 --> 00:07:33,083 I just find people lives fascinating. 187 00:07:33,125 --> 00:07:34,291 So I think that's maybe what I have 188 00:07:34,291 --> 00:07:35,791 in common with a lot of the writers 189 00:07:35,791 --> 00:07:36,875 that I like as well, you know. 190 00:07:37,291 --> 00:07:38,208 Yeah. Yeah. Very good. 191 00:07:38,708 --> 00:07:41,000 And your debut novel, so Blood & Water. 192 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,333 Yes. 193 00:07:41,541 --> 00:07:42,250 It's out now. 194 00:07:42,458 --> 00:07:46,166 Like, does the core concept strike you in a single lightbulb moment 195 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:50,041 or did the story and its themes kind of build slowly over time? 196 00:07:50,541 --> 00:07:52,833 So I knew I wanted to write about infertility. 197 00:07:53,041 --> 00:07:56,666 I knew I didn't want to write about my own experience directly. 198 00:07:56,666 --> 00:07:58,208 I wanted to give it to someone else. 199 00:07:58,583 --> 00:08:02,125 And the idea of sending that person to an island came very quick. 200 00:08:02,125 --> 00:08:03,041 That was very early on. 201 00:08:03,041 --> 00:08:05,333 I was like, I'm sending her off to an island, seeing what happens. 202 00:08:05,375 --> 00:08:07,291 And then the rest kind of unfolded, you 203 00:08:07,291 --> 00:08:09,333 know, because something I love writing 204 00:08:09,333 --> 00:08:11,333 about something I love fiction writing 205 00:08:11,791 --> 00:08:13,958 is that you kind of get to create problems 206 00:08:13,958 --> 00:08:15,458 and then solve them yourself, you know. 207 00:08:15,458 --> 00:08:17,708 So like, what happens if Susan, 208 00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:19,500 who's the main character in Blood & Water 209 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:22,083 what if she meets this person and what if this is happening? 210 00:08:22,125 --> 00:08:23,708 And what if she's done this and what's this? 211 00:08:24,041 --> 00:08:26,125 And sometimes you explore it and then you're like, 212 00:08:26,125 --> 00:08:27,875 no, that's nothing, but it helps you. 213 00:08:27,916 --> 00:08:29,500 It helps you kind of form that character. 214 00:08:30,041 --> 00:08:31,375 So, yes, it took a little while for 215 00:08:31,375 --> 00:08:33,333 the kind of full story to take place, 216 00:08:33,333 --> 00:08:36,416 but the very basics of it kind of came around quite early. 217 00:08:36,458 --> 00:08:39,500 And then I disappeared into a, actually, a friend of mine 218 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:40,833 has a little cottage in West Cork. 219 00:08:40,833 --> 00:08:43,875 So I was there for a night or two with my post-its and the dog. 220 00:08:43,916 --> 00:08:45,083 I brought the dog with me as well. 221 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:47,291 I'm planning out kind of and finding, you know, 222 00:08:47,541 --> 00:08:50,333 I need something to happen here to make this happen over here. 223 00:08:50,375 --> 00:08:52,416 And so, yes, it kind of came together sort of. 224 00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:55,666 Sometimes really slowly and then sometimes all at once. 225 00:08:55,666 --> 00:08:57,583 And then sometimes something will just strike you. 226 00:08:57,583 --> 00:08:59,833 So like the dual timeline thing, for example. 227 00:08:59,833 --> 00:09:02,166 So we follow Susan mainly. 228 00:09:02,583 --> 00:09:07,000 And then we have Frank, the uncle, which is kind of the, I mean, 229 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:10,000

subplot is kind of, it's a different timeline. 230 00:09:10,208 --> 00:09:11,583 And the two timelines speak to each other. 231 00:09:11,708 --> 00:09:14,458 But actually his story, while it was always in the book, 232 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,708 through, say, his journals and that, the actual flashbacks, 233 00:09:17,708 --> 00:09:19,666 which are now a major part of the book, 234 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:21,500 they weren't really in the first draft. 235 00:09:21,875 --> 00:09:24,208 Yeah. And it was only kind of after the first draft, 236 00:09:24,208 --> 00:09:25,541 I was like, no, I need more here. 237 00:09:25,541 --> 00:09:26,666 There's something more here. 238 00:09:26,833 --> 00:09:28,083 And she knew everyone loves Frank. 239 00:09:28,083 --> 00:09:29,583 Like everyone's just, everyone talks to me 240 00:09:29,583 --> 00:09:31,625 at how much Frank broke their heart, you know? 241 00:09:31,625 --> 00:09:35,583 And so it's obviously, so it just came out of various 242 00:09:35,791 --> 00:09:36,791 and kind of feedback. 243 00:09:36,791 --> 00:09:38,625 And I remember I put more into the second draft 244 00:09:38,625 --> 00:09:40,750 and the feedback from someone who read it was like, 245 00:09:40,916 --> 00:09:41,541 you need more of that. 246 00:09:41,666 --> 00:09:43,083 You actually even need even more. 247 00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:45,083 So I'm glad I leaned in more to that. 248 00:09:45,083 --> 00:09:46,583 And that's the joy of working with people 249 00:09:46,583 --> 00:09:48,250 and showing your work to people as well, you know? 250 00:09:48,791 --> 00:09:52,000 Yeah. And just talking about that dual timeline stuff. 251 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:52,416 Yeah. 252 00:09:52,458 --> 00:09:52,916 Yeah. 253 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,458 And like, how did you balance the psychological insight 254 00:09:56,458 --> 00:09:59,000 of the present with the kind of buried stories of the past? 255 00:10:00,458 --> 00:10:03,916 So as I said, it kind of emerged sort of slowly. 256 00:10:03,958 --> 00:10:06,666 And I always knew Frank's story in my head. 257 00:10:08,041 --> 00:10:10,541 I had to change around a few things because again, 258 00:10:10,541 --> 00:10:12,208 it's this like, you create these problems 259 00:10:12,208 --> 00:10:13,208 and then you're trying to solve them. 260 00:10:14,125 --> 00:10:17,291 And I had kind of a couple of, I'm trying to remember the exact, 261 00:10:17,291 --> 00:10:18,750 but there was definitely a couple of details 262 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:21,041 that I changed towards the end because I was like, 263 00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:23,541 I need to make it make a little bit more sense. 264 00:10:23,541 --> 00:10:27,791 Because for me, I'm always like, I think it has to make sense. 265 00:10:27,791 --> 00:10:30,458 Even if people don't agree with decisions that characters make, 266 00:10:30,666 --> 00:10:33,208 I want people to be like, I understand why they did that. 267 00:10:33,208 --> 00:10:35,041 But I don't, you know, I don't agree with it. 268 00:10:35,333 --> 00:10:36,875 And so I did make some changes. 269 00:10:36,875 --> 00:10:38,208 But in terms of balancing it, 270 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:43,458 like, I think Susan and Frank are similar in lots of ways 271 00:10:43,458 --> 00:10:45,208 in terms of how they deal with their problems 272 00:10:45,208 --> 00:10:46,583 or don't deal with them, I guess. 273 00:10:46,625 --> 00:10:49,000 But I think Frank is probably a bit more of a blunt instrument 274 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,958 in terms of he doesn't have the language 275 00:10:50,958 --> 00:10:52,291 Susan might have about things. 276 00:10:52,291 --> 00:10:54,041 I think Susan has much more self-awareness, 277 00:10:54,041 --> 00:10:56,375 even though she doesn't necessarily do anything better with that. 278 00:10:56,458 --> 00:10:59,375 At first, anyway, but I think he's a bit more of a blunt instrument. 279 00:10:59,375 --> 00:11:02,041 And I think he got, he's a lot more trapped than she is. 280 00:11:02,041 --> 00:11:04,166 And I suppose balancing those two pieces 281 00:11:04,208 --> 00:11:06,166 and not letting them crowd each other out as well, 282 00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:08,958 while still kind of making each relevant to each other. 283 00:11:09,041 --> 00:11:09,916 It was fun. 284 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:12,083 And like, honestly, the practical thing of a dual timeline, 285 00:11:12,375 --> 00:11:14,666 like I have a timeline written somewhere in an note 286 00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:16,208 like I've so many notebooks. 287 00:11:16,208 --> 00:11:19,041 And I'm like, okay, if this happened in 1978, 288 00:11:19,666 --> 00:11:21,791 and this must have happened in 2000. 289 00:11:22,416 --> 00:11:25,083 And so, honestly, that was actually probably more difficult 290 00:11:25,083 --> 00:11:26,708 than even figuring out the emotional. 291 00:11:26,708 --> 00:11:28,416 And because I was like, and look, I'm sure, 292 00:11:28,541 --> 00:11:29,625 I don't want to know if it is, 293 00:11:29,666 --> 00:11:30,958 but I'm sure someone's going to read the book 294 00:11:30,958 --> 00:11:33,250 and say, actually, that doesn't, you're missing this, 295 00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:34,625 or you've got a gap here. 296 00:11:34,625 --> 00:11:38,583 But actually balancing the sort of chronological side of it 297 00:11:38,583 --> 00:11:40,083 and making sure everything made sense 298 00:11:40,083 --> 00:11:42,208 was a big part of the dual timeline. 299 00:11:42,250 --> 00:11:44,666 I don't know how people do more complex ones, 300 00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:46,208 because mine's relatively simple. 301 00:11:46,375 --> 00:11:47,333 But yeah, no, it was great. 302 00:11:47,333 --> 00:11:48,000 It was interesting. 303 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,750 It was really nice to kind of go back and even think about, 304 00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:53,500 okay, what would Dublin have looked like back in, 305 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:54,750 I think, this is the 90s. 306 00:11:54,791 -->

00:11:57,666 I have them very briefly in Dublin for one chapter. 307 00:11:57,875 --> 00:11:58,833 And so what would it be there? 308 00:11:58,833 --> 00:11:59,708 What about what would be like? 309 00:11:59,708 --> 00:12:00,875 What would they be doing? 310 00:12:01,291 --> 00:12:02,375 So yeah, no, I enjoyed that. 311 00:12:02,458 --> 00:12:05,916 It was a really nice kind of a little escape 312 00:12:05,916 --> 00:12:08,000 from the escape that was the island, I suppose, sometimes. 313 00:12:08,125 --> 00:12:08,833 Absolutely. 314 00:12:09,125 --> 00:12:11,875 And you mentioned there that it was inspired 315 00:12:11,916 --> 00:12:13,875 by your own personal experiences 316 00:12:13,916 --> 00:12:15,333 with infertility and all. 317 00:12:15,833 --> 00:12:19,458 How did you navigate the process of translating 318 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,958 such vulnerable real life experiences into a work of fiction, 319 00:12:22,958 --> 00:12:25,583 especially when delving into the complex themes 320 00:12:25,583 --> 00:12:26,916 like shame and sexuality? 321 00:12:27,791 --> 00:12:31,291 Yeah, so I mean, it took me four years to write the first draft. 322 00:12:31,291 --> 00:12:35,208 So that might tell you that there was times when it was easier 323 00:12:35,208 --> 00:12:36,666 and times when it was more difficult. 324 00:12:38,166 --> 00:12:40,625 And something I really tried to do 325 00:12:40,625 --> 00:12:42,250 was try to be very kind to myself. 326 00:12:42,250 --> 00:12:47,125 And I'm as good as the next person has beaten myself up, 327 00:12:47,125 --> 00:12:49,208 or I should be writing this, or I should be doing this. 328 00:12:49,625 --> 00:12:52,375 But there are times, and I'm really lucky, 329 00:12:52,375 --> 00:12:54,625 I've got a really nice kind of group of writer friends. 330 00:12:54,916 --> 00:12:56,541 And sometimes they'd say to me, Rebecca, 331 00:12:56,666 --> 00:12:58,625 maybe now isn't the time for you to be writing this book. 332 00:12:58,916 --> 00:13:01,625 So maybe you just need to step away and look after yourself. 333 00:13:01,625 --> 00:13:03,541 And there was definitely an element of that. 334 00:13:03,541 --> 00:13:05,541 And I suppose just being able to step away from it 335 00:13:05,541 --> 00:13:06,250 when I needed to. 336 00:13:06,333 --> 00:13:08,916 Knowing then actually when it would do me good to write it. 337 00:13:09,791 --> 00:13:11,500 And I suppose when I worked with-- 338 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:15,333 And so I did the Faber Academy, Finish Your Draft course. 339 00:13:15,333 --> 00:13:17,375 And the tutor on that, Natasha Bell, 340 00:13:18,166 --> 00:13:20,000 I actually worked with her afterwards as well, 341 00:13:20,041 --> 00:13:21,791 which as a kind of a private edit. 342 00:13:21,791 --> 00:13:25,291 So I worked with her, I paid for her to do a private edit 343 00:13:25,291 --> 00:13:26,541 on the manuscript. 344 00:13:26,541 --> 00:13:28,166 And there was certain chapters that she was like, 345 00:13:28,416 --> 00:13:30,666 look, I know this is difficult, but I really feel like 346 00:13:30,666 --> 00:13:32,250 you need to lean in a little bit more here. 347 00:13:32,583 --> 00:13:32,958 Wow. 348 00:13:33,166 --> 00:13:34,833 And it was done in the kindest way possible 349 00:13:34,833 --> 00:13:36,125 because she's absolutely lovely. 350 00:13:36,416 --> 00:13:38,166 And I think you need that as well. 351 00:13:39,125 --> 00:13:41,333 So yeah, so I think it was a real sort of balance 352 00:13:41,375 --> 00:13:43,541 between sort of self-compassion, 353 00:13:44,291 --> 00:13:46,750 knowing when to push myself, knowing when to put it away. 354 00:13:46,791 --> 00:13:50,291 And also it was quite cathartic, maybe a little dramatic, 355 00:13:50,291 --> 00:13:53,583 but it definitely helped I think in terms of moving through it. 356 00:13:53,583 --> 00:13:57,375 And as I said, it kind of, I like writing fiction 357 00:13:57,375 --> 00:13:58,750 and creating kind of new things. 358 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:01,000 And I suppose it just gave me a chance to do something 359 00:14:01,625 --> 00:14:04,083 kind of positive with something that had a place, 360 00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:05,750 it was coming from a place of, I suppose, 361 00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:07,291 a lot of pain and grief and that. 362 00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:08,083 Okay. 363 00:14:08,583 --> 00:14:10,500 And about the book now, it's like a set 364 00:14:10,833 --> 00:14:12,250 kind of like a fictional island. 365 00:14:12,416 --> 00:14:12,625 Yeah. 366 00:14:12,791 --> 00:14:15,333 The story really captures kind of the natural beauty 367 00:14:15,333 --> 00:14:15,875 of West Cork. 368 00:14:16,416 --> 00:14:18,333 How does that rugged environment 369 00:14:18,333 --> 00:14:20,041 influence the atmosphere of the story 370 00:14:20,166 --> 00:14:22,125 and the emotional landscape of your character? 371 00:14:22,750 --> 00:14:24,708 Like the weather and the environment 372 00:14:24,791 --> 00:14:26,708 are great fun to play around with, you know, 373 00:14:27,041 --> 00:14:30,583 because they can kind of, they can either totally reflect 374 00:14:30,583 --> 00:14:31,750 what's going on for the character 375 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:35,041 or they can offer this really annoying juxtaposition for them, 376 00:14:35,041 --> 00:14:37,291 you know, and we see that, we see both of those things 377 00:14:37,291 --> 00:14:39,625 kind of happening in "In Blood and Water." 378 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,916 But like, you know, when Susan arrives, 379 00:14:41,916 --> 00:14:43,958 there's so much turmoil inside in her 380 00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:46,000 and she's arriving to this beautiful island 381 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,708 full of life and air and, you know, 382 00:14:48,708 --> 00:14:51,333 the sea is shimmering and the sun is shining. 383 00:14:51,458 --> 00:14:53,291 I think I used the phrase, you know, 384 00:14:53,291 --> 00:14:56,541 like the Irish summer lasts a good fortnight, you

know, 385 00:14:56,541 --> 00:14:59,125 so she lands in that fortnight when summer is happening, you know, 386 00:14:59,208 --> 00:15:01,291 and I think it offers a real kind of a contrast 387 00:15:01,291 --> 00:15:05,833 to how she's feeling and how she's struggling with everything. 388 00:15:05,875 --> 00:15:07,833 Whereas then, as things ramp up, 389 00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:11,291 the kind of the weather breaks and we get the pathetic fallacy 390 00:15:11,291 --> 00:15:13,291 of the storm and the rain and the wind, 391 00:15:13,291 --> 00:15:15,041 and I think it's fun to play with that. 392 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:17,333 And yeah, like you say, like the West Cork landscape 393 00:15:17,541 --> 00:15:20,500 and the kind of island landscape particularly is so dramatic 394 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,708 and it can, you know, it can, when you're on, say, one of the islands 395 00:15:23,708 --> 00:15:26,125 and it is a fictional island, but like if you think of, 396 00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:28,250 I don't know if you're looking at the baskets or Cape Clear 397 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:30,166 or go up to Inish Turk or somewhere like that, 398 00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:33,041 even up on the West Coast and the kind of variations 399 00:15:33,041 --> 00:15:36,291 in that landscape and the kind of the walks you can go on 400 00:15:36,833 --> 00:15:39,125 the thinking time that you get when you're on that, 401 00:15:39,125 --> 00:15:41,833 I think there's nowhere like it in terms of the way the wind 402 00:15:41,833 --> 00:15:45,125 will go through you and up your nose and through your hair. 403 00:15:45,125 --> 00:15:48,041 And it just, I just, I'm always fascinated. 404 00:15:48,416 --> 00:15:51,875 I'm really into nature and birds and flowers and all of that, 405 00:15:51,875 --> 00:15:54,041 like, and I would do a lot of nature photography and things. 406 00:15:54,041 --> 00:15:56,791 So I think the chance to kind of, I don't know, 407 00:15:56,791 --> 00:15:59,250 sort of bring people into that world, you know, 408 00:15:59,250 --> 00:16:02,166 because I'd love, I'd love if someone who had never visited 409 00:16:02,208 --> 00:16:04,291 any of those places came away from the book and was like, 410 00:16:04,291 --> 00:16:06,958 "God, I'd love to head down now to West Cork and see that, 411 00:16:06,958 --> 00:16:08,708 "and I'd love to see the Heathers, 412 00:16:08,708 --> 00:16:12,041 "and I'd love to see all the Mount Brescia in the ditches." 413 00:16:12,041 --> 00:16:14,000 Because I think if we love the natural world, 414 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,666 maybe we'll try and actually do something 415 00:16:15,666 --> 00:16:16,791 about keeping it safe. 416 00:16:16,791 --> 00:16:20,583 So yeah, maybe, maybe, you know. 417 00:16:21,458 --> 00:16:24,958 And you spoke there briefly about the Faber Academy scholarship. 418 00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:25,291 Yes. 419 00:16:26,208 --> 00:16:27,708 Between receiving that scholarship 420 00:16:27,708 --> 00:16:29,375 and your own rights mastery, 421 00:16:29,666 --> 00:16:32,541 how has your approach to writing transformed? 422 00:16:33,875 --> 00:16:39,125 I suppose I don't, like, as soon as I started the novel, 423 00:16:39,125 --> 00:16:41,250 I started taking it much more seriously. 424 00:16:41,708 --> 00:16:44,833 But I think you're kind of making it up as you go along 425 00:16:44,875 --> 00:16:45,375 a lot of the time. 426 00:16:45,541 --> 00:16:46,583 I don't know other courses, 427 00:16:46,583 --> 00:16:50,000 so there's an organisation in the UK called Write Like A Girl, 428 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,083 which I mention as much as I can, 429 00:16:52,083 --> 00:16:53,791 because they're an amazing organisation. 430 00:16:53,791 --> 00:16:56,458 They do a lot of online courses as well as courses in the UK. 431 00:16:56,541 --> 00:16:58,791 Dr. Kerry Ryan is the kind of founder there, 432 00:16:58,791 --> 00:16:59,791 and she's wonderful. 433 00:16:59,875 --> 00:17:02,500 And it's very much about women in non-binary, 434 00:17:02,833 --> 00:17:04,250 kind of getting into writing, 435 00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:05,708 and literally people start off, 436 00:17:05,916 --> 00:17:07,375 and they're just like, "I kind of want to write," 437 00:17:07,666 --> 00:17:10,875 and then to people like myself who had done a few courses. 438 00:17:10,916 --> 00:17:12,666 I had some structure on my writing. 439 00:17:12,875 --> 00:17:14,791 I had some approaches on my writing. 440 00:17:15,125 --> 00:17:17,791 But I think once I started the novel, 441 00:17:17,833 --> 00:17:19,333 I was like, "Okay, I'm going to have to take this seriously, 442 00:17:19,333 --> 00:17:21,250 or I'm going to be writing this novel for 30 years." 443 00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:21,833 You know what I mean? 444 00:17:22,791 --> 00:17:25,000 And so I'd started to kind of hone my craft then. 445 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,375 So even I'm very lucky. 446 00:17:26,375 --> 00:17:28,833 So I have a full-time job outside of writing, 447 00:17:28,833 --> 00:17:32,375 so it's only kind of part of what I do. 448 00:17:32,416 --> 00:17:34,333 But I was able to restructure my hours, 449 00:17:34,333 --> 00:17:36,875 and I work four long days now, and then on Fridays, 450 00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:38,500 I tend to write. 451 00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,208 That tends to be my writing day. 452 00:17:40,583 --> 00:17:42,041 In theory, that's my writing day. 453 00:17:42,333 --> 00:17:44,125 And so I was able to kind of restructure 454 00:17:44,375 --> 00:17:45,708 my kind of hours around that. 455 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:48,958 And then once I started doing the Faber Academy course, 456 00:17:48,958 --> 00:17:52,083 so I think I'd just finished the first draft at that stage. 457 00:17:52,083 --> 00:17:53,375 So I did the first draft on my own. 458 00:17:53,791 --> 00:17:55,916 And then when I did the Faber Academy, 459 00:17:56,166 --> 00:17:57,500 I kind of learned so much, 460 00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,208 because

you don't know what you don't know. 461 00:18:00,375 --> 00:18:01,708 Do you know what I mean a lot of the time? 462 00:18:01,958 --> 00:18:04,250 And so then it just gave me so many tools 463 00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:06,333 around kind of analysis of that draft, 464 00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:07,708 looking at it, breaking it down, 465 00:18:08,041 --> 00:18:10,208 looking at characters, plot, structure. 466 00:18:10,666 --> 00:18:12,791 I do think rules are there to be broken 467 00:18:12,791 --> 00:18:13,750 in terms of this sort of stuff, 468 00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:15,750 but I do think you kind of need to know the rules 469 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:16,958 before you start breaking them 470 00:18:16,958 --> 00:18:18,291 and knowing what you're playing with. 471 00:18:18,666 --> 00:18:20,000 And so I think that's what it gave me, 472 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,458 a real structure around that. 473 00:18:21,875 --> 00:18:24,250 I suppose I do take my writing quite seriously, 474 00:18:24,458 --> 00:18:26,916 even though it's kind of part-time. 475 00:18:27,083 --> 00:18:29,208 I suppose I can't really call it a hobby anymore now, 476 00:18:29,250 --> 00:18:29,916 because I have a book. 477 00:18:30,416 --> 00:18:32,375 I don't think I can hide behind that anymore. 478 00:18:33,416 --> 00:18:35,333 It is something that's kind of a... 479 00:18:35,708 --> 00:18:36,791 It's a part of my life. 480 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:38,083 It's not my full-time job. 481 00:18:38,083 --> 00:18:39,125 Maybe it will be someday. 482 00:18:39,125 --> 00:18:40,833 Maybe I'll be lucky enough to do that, 483 00:18:40,833 --> 00:18:43,625 or maybe something really will happen like that. 484 00:18:43,625 --> 00:18:45,000 But I suppose at the moment, 485 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,208 it's just trying to find a way 486 00:18:46,208 --> 00:18:47,708 to take it as seriously as I can 487 00:18:47,708 --> 00:18:50,125 while still balancing all the rest of my life as well. 488 00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:52,000 So I've been lucky in lots of ways 489 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,375 in terms of work and that. 490 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:56,000 And the course was just so useful 491 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,750 for learning what I didn't know, really. 492 00:18:58,833 --> 00:19:00,250 Okay, so Fridays. 493 00:19:00,583 --> 00:19:02,708 A typical productive writing day. 494 00:19:02,708 --> 00:19:03,875 What does that look like for you? 495 00:19:04,291 --> 00:19:06,125 I like that you said the word productive, 496 00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:08,708 because there could be a stark contrast 497 00:19:08,708 --> 00:19:10,916 between a productive Friday writing day 498 00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:12,750 and the days that I had so productive. 499 00:19:12,958 --> 00:19:14,250 I suppose on a good day, 500 00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:16,791 like I said, I'm a great believer in self-compassion. 501 00:19:17,291 --> 00:19:18,458 So I would give myself... 502 00:19:18,666 --> 00:19:19,833 Like, I wouldn't be up at the dawn. 503 00:19:20,166 --> 00:19:21,375 I'd get up, I'd go down, 504 00:19:21,375 --> 00:19:22,708 I'd kind of potter about for a bit, 505 00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:24,791 and then I'd sit down, do an hour or two, 506 00:19:24,833 --> 00:19:27,291 take a break, have a cup of coffee, go back. 507 00:19:27,666 --> 00:19:29,750 It depends on what I'm working on, to be honest. 508 00:19:29,916 --> 00:19:32,666 So if we take, say, when I was writing the novel, 509 00:19:32,958 --> 00:19:35,500 and if I had a deadline for, say, the course or something, 510 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:36,333 I love a deadline. 511 00:19:36,333 --> 00:19:39,125 I love when someone is going to be screaming down at me, 512 00:19:39,291 --> 00:19:40,000 no one's screaming, 513 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,000 but someone's going to be looking 514 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,500 for five or ten thousand words. 515 00:19:43,416 --> 00:19:44,500 And then I would just sit down. 516 00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:45,666 I'm good at churning. 517 00:19:45,708 --> 00:19:48,375 Like, if I have a word count, I'm good at meeting it. 518 00:19:48,416 --> 00:19:50,375 And then I kind of would spend some time editing it 519 00:19:50,375 --> 00:19:51,083 and coming back to it. 520 00:19:51,083 --> 00:19:52,958 But I have to take plenty of breaks, 521 00:19:52,958 --> 00:19:53,958 because it's tiring, actually. 522 00:19:53,958 --> 00:19:54,791 It's really tiring. 523 00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:56,791 And then sometimes as well, 524 00:19:56,916 --> 00:19:59,708 we have a joke around with some of my writing friends, 525 00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:01,833 what's writing and what isn't writing. 526 00:20:02,041 --> 00:20:04,416 And so, like, because sometimes things can be writing, 527 00:20:04,416 --> 00:20:05,583 and you wouldn't think they're writing. 528 00:20:05,583 --> 00:20:07,750 So sitting, staring into space with a coffee 529 00:20:07,791 --> 00:20:08,375 could be writing. 530 00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:11,500 So there sometimes can be just sitting, staring into space. 531 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,000 Sometimes I might go out in the back yard 532 00:20:13,041 --> 00:20:14,916 with my notebook and just write some ideas. 533 00:20:15,125 --> 00:20:17,708 Sometimes it's the post-its, the post-its return. 534 00:20:17,791 --> 00:20:21,125 And so it just really depends on what I'm working on at the time. 535 00:20:21,666 --> 00:20:24,333 I suppose at the moment, obviously, the novel is out now. 536 00:20:24,791 --> 00:20:26,583 I'm hoping that my headspace for writing 537 00:20:26,583 --> 00:20:28,750 will kind of return a bit more. 538 00:20:28,750 --> 00:20:30,750 And I'm kind of brainstorming for the next one 539 00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:32,916 and starting to put a few words down. 540 00:20:32,916 --> 00:20:35,875 And it's written, but I've had to go back to the drawing board 541 00:20:35,875 --> 00:20:36,416 with some bits. 542 00:20:36,416 --> 00:20:39,166 So yeah, I'm hoping that productivity thing. 543

00:20:39,166 --> 00:20:40,416 But it's hard. 544 00:20:40,416 --> 00:20:42,250 It's very hard when no one's asking you to do it. 545 00:20:42,791 --> 00:20:45,208 And I had a few dark nights at the soul 546 00:20:45,208 --> 00:20:46,500 when I was writing that book, where I was like, 547 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:47,000 what am I doing? 548 00:20:48,875 --> 00:20:51,125 I'm there getting really upset about a chapter. 549 00:20:51,208 --> 00:20:52,666 And like, why, who's-- 550 00:20:53,708 --> 00:20:54,791 I'm doing this myself. 551 00:20:55,833 --> 00:20:59,166 But you need to have those moments as well, too. 552 00:20:59,458 --> 00:21:00,666 You have to. 553 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:01,958 All the good parts. 554 00:21:02,916 --> 00:21:03,458 Totally. 555 00:21:03,458 --> 00:21:06,333 And I mean, this is why AI can't write. 556 00:21:07,291 --> 00:21:07,666 OK? 557 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,291 Because you have to go through that to write. 558 00:21:10,291 --> 00:21:11,833 Otherwise, it's just, you know what? 559 00:21:11,833 --> 00:21:14,458 If I wanted to write a novel, I could plug in the back of this 560 00:21:14,458 --> 00:21:16,291 into chat GPT and ask them to tell me, 561 00:21:16,625 --> 00:21:17,166 and you know what? 562 00:21:17,166 --> 00:21:17,916 I won't have anything. 563 00:21:17,916 --> 00:21:20,291 And maybe it'll have some nice sentences in it. 564 00:21:20,291 --> 00:21:21,458 But it won't be art. 565 00:21:21,458 --> 00:21:22,208 And it won't be writing. 566 00:21:22,333 --> 00:21:23,125 And I think-- 567 00:21:23,625 --> 00:21:27,458 I know Mercier, my publisher, put out an article there recently. 568 00:21:27,458 --> 00:21:28,416 And I thought there was one line. 569 00:21:28,416 --> 00:21:30,041 And it was like, if you can't be bothered writing it, 570 00:21:30,041 --> 00:21:31,333 why should I be bothered reading it? 571 00:21:31,375 --> 00:21:34,083 And so I-- because writing, there 572 00:21:34,083 --> 00:21:37,541 is a lot of sitting and going and figuring things out 573 00:21:37,583 --> 00:21:38,333 and the dark night. 574 00:21:38,333 --> 00:21:40,750 And sometimes there's days when you're writing like a god. 575 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:42,458 You know, and you're just typing away. 576 00:21:42,458 --> 00:21:43,541 You're like, oh my god. 577 00:21:44,375 --> 00:21:44,916 This is it. 578 00:21:44,916 --> 00:21:45,625 This is it now. 579 00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:47,375 But then sometimes there's just like, 580 00:21:47,375 --> 00:21:48,958 it's like getting blood from a stone. 581 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,333 And that's all part of it, unfortunately. 582 00:21:51,458 --> 00:21:52,833 That is all part of it. 583 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,125 So it is effectively like a marathon. 584 00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:59,458 So what's the biggest hurdle you face during the drafting 585 00:21:59,458 --> 00:22:00,458 and editing process? 586 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,875 Think just-- like, I mean, everyone is short on time, 587 00:22:05,875 --> 00:22:06,041 right? 588 00:22:06,250 --> 00:22:07,708 Even though I did have my Fridays, 589 00:22:07,708 --> 00:22:10,541 like, you know, it's also Fridays, also, the day 590 00:22:10,541 --> 00:22:12,000 when you try and get your life admin done. 591 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:12,541 You know what I mean? 592 00:22:12,541 --> 00:22:14,208 And so it is finding time. 593 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:18,375 I think, for me, obviously, it was quite a personal subject 594 00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:18,666 matter. 595 00:22:18,666 --> 00:22:21,291 So as I said, I kind of just had to walk away from it. 596 00:22:21,708 --> 00:22:24,583 So they were kind of the big hurdles and the energy as well. 597 00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:28,000 Like, life is-- and so we were like moving house and stuff 598 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,791 like that and trying to do all of these life things in between. 599 00:22:31,125 --> 00:22:33,875 You know, I tried to balance a full-time job as well as then 600 00:22:33,875 --> 00:22:37,041 this kind of part-time job I decided to take on for myself. 601 00:22:37,083 --> 00:22:39,333 So yeah, I was just trying to find a balance between everything. 602 00:22:39,375 --> 00:22:40,833 And that-- it can be challenging. 603 00:22:40,958 --> 00:22:43,541 And then sometimes, you know, I would kind of be like, 604 00:22:43,541 --> 00:22:45,375 you know, Rebecca, you probably could make time now 605 00:22:45,375 --> 00:22:46,375 if you really wanted to. 606 00:22:46,375 --> 00:22:49,750 And I do think we can probably all find some bit of time 607 00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:52,416 if we need to, plus just then finding the energy as well. 608 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,041 And then sometimes the two don't always meet. 609 00:22:54,416 --> 00:22:55,083 You know, so-- 610 00:22:55,916 --> 00:22:56,583 Exactly. 611 00:22:56,833 --> 00:22:58,750 And what's the most surprising thing 612 00:22:58,750 --> 00:23:01,416 that you learned about yourself while getting the book over 613 00:23:01,416 --> 00:23:01,916 the finish line? 614 00:23:03,541 --> 00:23:05,375 And I could actually do it, to be honest. 615 00:23:05,375 --> 00:23:09,125 Like, I mean, that's-- it's very intimidating facing down 616 00:23:09,125 --> 00:23:10,416 the barrel of an novel. 617 00:23:10,458 --> 00:23:13,125 Because, like, I had written kind of short stories and stuff. 618 00:23:13,125 --> 00:23:14,416 And I love writing short stories. 619 00:23:14,416 --> 00:23:16,958 And they're really difficult to write, like short stories. 620 00:23:17,291 --> 00:23:18,625 I would argue in lots of ways they're 621 00:23:18,625 --> 00:23:19,791 more difficult than writing a novel 622 00:23:19,791 --> 00:23:22,875 because you're trying to capture so much in such little, like, 623 00:23:23,041 --> 00:23:24,041 real estate, you know? 624 00:23:24,166 --> 00:23:26,125 So I've written a lot of short stories and that. 625 00:23:26,125 --> 00:23:29,541 And I was like, oh, maybe that's just what my

speed is, you know? 626 00:23:29,875 --> 00:23:31,541 But then I was like, no, I want to write a novel. 627 00:23:31,541 --> 00:23:33,958 So that was probably the surprising thing I learned, 628 00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:35,291 is that I actually was able to do it. 629 00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:37,250 And honestly, if I can do it, anyone can do it. 630 00:23:38,125 --> 00:23:39,625 Because I love a project. 631 00:23:39,666 --> 00:23:41,000 And I love a hobby. 632 00:23:41,041 --> 00:23:45,166 So if I was able to get myself knuckled down to finish a novel, 633 00:23:45,208 --> 00:23:46,541 then I think anyone can do it. 634 00:23:46,625 --> 00:23:49,250 I think it's just-- you just have to do it. 635 00:23:49,833 --> 00:23:50,541 Absolutely. 636 00:23:50,958 --> 00:23:54,041 And you stood out from over 600 entries 637 00:23:54,041 --> 00:23:56,666 to win the RTE Today Show Novel Competition. 638 00:23:57,291 --> 00:23:59,208 What was it like getting that call? 639 00:23:59,291 --> 00:24:01,666 And how did it change your writing journey? 640 00:24:02,291 --> 00:24:03,708 It was bizarre, to be honest. 641 00:24:03,708 --> 00:24:06,333 Because I think as a writer or any kind of creative, 642 00:24:06,333 --> 00:24:08,291 you just kind of get used to being rejected, you know? 643 00:24:08,291 --> 00:24:09,666 So I'd started to-- 644 00:24:10,166 --> 00:24:14,666 so the manuscript, I think I'd started querying at that stage. 645 00:24:14,666 --> 00:24:15,875 Let me just-- and so, yeah. 646 00:24:15,916 --> 00:24:16,958 Obviously, I kind of worked-- 647 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,250 I think it was like the third or fourth draft 648 00:24:19,333 --> 00:24:21,208 that I'd actually ended up sending out 649 00:24:21,208 --> 00:24:25,125 to kind of publishers and the competition and agents 650 00:24:25,125 --> 00:24:25,833 and things like that. 651 00:24:26,208 --> 00:24:28,708 And you just get so used to-- you don't hear anything back. 652 00:24:28,708 --> 00:24:30,583 You just get a rejection back. 653 00:24:30,583 --> 00:24:33,666 And it's very nice, but it's just like not for me. 654 00:24:33,666 --> 00:24:35,625 And you don't really learn very much from it. 655 00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:36,583 And that's probably something else 656 00:24:36,583 --> 00:24:38,500 that I've learned as well, is how to take rejection. 657 00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:41,000 I've gotten so much better at just moving on. 658 00:24:41,208 --> 00:24:41,833 Just send it out. 659 00:24:41,875 --> 00:24:42,583 Forget about it. 660 00:24:42,750 --> 00:24:43,416 Get a rejection. 661 00:24:43,541 --> 00:24:43,958 Move on. 662 00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:44,625 What can you do? 663 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:50,541 And so when I got the phone call from Dee Collins in Mercier, 664 00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:51,958 I was like, really? 665 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:52,458 OK. 666 00:24:53,250 --> 00:24:54,916 It actually takes a while to settle in, 667 00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:56,708 in terms of actually the reality of

it. 668 00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:59,083 And then it just kind of all happened very quickly as well. 669 00:24:59,416 --> 00:25:01,791 So I was kind of saying, yeah, sure. 670 00:25:01,791 --> 00:25:03,166 And then I was signing a contract. 671 00:25:03,166 --> 00:25:04,125 And then I was on RTE. 672 00:25:05,041 --> 00:25:07,625 And then it all felt very surreal. 673 00:25:07,666 --> 00:25:08,541 But it was fantastic. 674 00:25:08,541 --> 00:25:09,291 It's amazing. 675 00:25:09,333 --> 00:25:12,375 And I have to say, people have just been so excited. 676 00:25:12,375 --> 00:25:14,416 Like, sometimes I feel like people are more excited about it 677 00:25:14,458 --> 00:25:16,666 than I am because I'm still processing that it's real. 678 00:25:16,875 --> 00:25:18,541 And everyone's going mental about it. 679 00:25:19,041 --> 00:25:20,916 And it was that when it was announced. 680 00:25:20,916 --> 00:25:22,208 It was now when we were doing the launch. 681 00:25:22,625 --> 00:25:25,166 So I suppose, as I said, it's kind of 682 00:25:25,166 --> 00:25:27,916 made me reevaluate in terms of, OK, I've always 683 00:25:27,916 --> 00:25:29,333 kind of thought of writing as a hobby. 684 00:25:29,375 --> 00:25:30,750 I can't call it that anymore now. 685 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:31,625 So what does that mean? 686 00:25:31,833 --> 00:25:32,458 You know what I mean? 687 00:25:32,458 --> 00:25:35,125 So what does that mean in terms of my future as a writer, 688 00:25:35,125 --> 00:25:35,958 as a creator? 689 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,916 And I think that that's probably the question I'm still answering. 690 00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:41,416 I am working on book two. 691 00:25:41,458 --> 00:25:44,000 But what that-- it's just interesting 692 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,916 to kind of shape-- 693 00:25:45,958 --> 00:25:48,458 like, could it just psychologically move from, 694 00:25:48,708 --> 00:25:50,333 oh, this is just a hobby I just do for fun. 695 00:25:50,333 --> 00:25:51,375 And then it's like, well, actually, no. 696 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:53,250 There's a real book now. 697 00:25:53,250 --> 00:25:54,250 And there's a publisher. 698 00:25:54,291 --> 00:25:57,791 They're putting their money where their mouth is. 699 00:25:57,791 --> 00:26:00,583 And there's people backing it and saying lovely things about it. 700 00:26:00,583 --> 00:26:02,541 And yeah, so it's really interesting. 701 00:26:02,916 --> 00:26:05,416 I think I'm at a very exciting kind of point, I think, 702 00:26:05,541 --> 00:26:08,041 in my writing career, whatever that ends up looking like. 703 00:26:08,666 --> 00:26:11,750 How are you navigating the transition 704 00:26:11,791 --> 00:26:15,583 from being a private writer working quietly at your desk 705 00:26:15,583 --> 00:26:20,000 to a public author actively promoting your debut novel? 706 00:26:20,416 --> 00:26:21,833 I'm just going first, Geraldine. 707 00:26:22,041 --> 00:26:23,833 I just kind of was like, you know what? 708 00:26:23,833 --> 00:26:27,166 This is an opportunity now that not everyone gets. 709 00:26:27,666 --> 00:26:32,708 I mean, even in terms of that, like as I said, 99% of writing 710 00:26:32,708 --> 00:26:32,958 is-- 711 00:26:33,708 --> 00:26:34,541 it's perseverance. 712 00:26:34,541 --> 00:26:37,333 But then 99% of submitting your writing is rejection. 713 00:26:38,833 --> 00:26:42,708 But like-- so a lot of people don't ever get that opportunity. 714 00:26:42,833 --> 00:26:46,541 And then the opportunity, like even partnering with RTE as well, 715 00:26:46,541 --> 00:26:49,041 I mean, that itself is such a massive opportunity. 716 00:26:49,333 --> 00:26:52,791 And so I just went for it and kind of promoting it 717 00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:53,666 on my socials. 718 00:26:53,875 --> 00:26:56,916 And it's very cringy, is what I will say. 719 00:26:56,958 --> 00:26:58,041 It's just-- it's not-- 720 00:26:58,041 --> 00:27:00,583 I'm not a natural self-promoter. 721 00:27:00,583 --> 00:27:01,625 I love chatting to people. 722 00:27:01,625 --> 00:27:02,958 And I love talking about my work. 723 00:27:02,958 --> 00:27:05,500 But like the idea of kind of being like, hey, guys, 724 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:06,625 you know, buy my book. 725 00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:10,583 It just not-- it wouldn't be my natural mode at all. 726 00:27:10,833 --> 00:27:12,708 So I've had to push through a lot of that, actually. 727 00:27:12,708 --> 00:27:13,875 And again, I think it's great. 728 00:27:13,875 --> 00:27:15,166 You know, I'm 40 years old. 729 00:27:15,166 --> 00:27:17,166 Isn't it brilliant to be kind of developing a new side 730 00:27:17,166 --> 00:27:18,208 of myself at this stage? 731 00:27:18,291 --> 00:27:20,833 Some people don't ever learn anything really once they 732 00:27:20,833 --> 00:27:21,791 go beyond a certain age. 733 00:27:21,791 --> 00:27:23,875 But I'm determined to keep going forever, 734 00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:25,250 learning and developing. 735 00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:27,291 So yeah, so I think there's been a lot of pushing 736 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:28,750 through the cringe of that. 737 00:27:29,083 --> 00:27:32,416 And just going for it, you know, I would be a user of social 738 00:27:32,416 --> 00:27:32,958 media anyway. 739 00:27:32,958 --> 00:27:34,666 So at least I wasn't learning how to use that. 740 00:27:34,666 --> 00:27:38,291 But I sometimes do feel like I need like a Generation Z person 741 00:27:38,291 --> 00:27:40,583 to help me a little bit more just to make them jazzed up, 742 00:27:40,583 --> 00:27:43,125 because I'm very millennial, I think, in my approach to things. 743 00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:44,208 But yeah, no, it's been brilliant. 744 00:27:44,208 --> 00:27:45,125 It's just been-- it's just-- 745 00:27:45,375 --> 00:27:46,791 I've just gone for it. 746 00:27:46,791 --> 00:27:48,416 I've just been like, let's promote this book. 747 00:27:48,666 --> 00:27:49,541 Let's do our best. 748 00:27:49,541 --> 00:27:50,250 And you know what? 749

00:27:50,291 --> 00:27:53,208 If you do your best and if 10 people buy it, 750 00:27:53,208 --> 00:27:54,375 then what can you say? 751 00:27:54,375 --> 00:27:55,166 You tried, right? 752 00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:58,041 But yeah, well, I think more than 10 people have bought it 753 00:27:58,041 --> 00:27:58,791 anyway, which is great. 754 00:27:58,791 --> 00:27:59,958 But like-- but just, you know, I just 755 00:27:59,958 --> 00:28:02,708 think if you do your best, you can be happy with yourself, 756 00:28:02,708 --> 00:28:03,208 then, you know? 757 00:28:03,333 --> 00:28:04,416 And some people will like it. 758 00:28:04,458 --> 00:28:06,250 Some people want that book, right? 759 00:28:07,875 --> 00:28:10,125 So as a result of that competition, 760 00:28:10,125 --> 00:28:13,208 like you're being championed by Cork's iconic Mercier Press. 761 00:28:13,541 --> 00:28:17,000 How special is it to have a local publisher backing your debut? 762 00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:17,625 It's great. 763 00:28:17,666 --> 00:28:20,291 And just D Collins was what he said last night at the launch. 764 00:28:20,291 --> 00:28:22,041 He was like, they didn't realise I was from Cork, actually, 765 00:28:22,041 --> 00:28:23,541 when they chose me as the winner, because they're like, 766 00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:24,791 everyone's going to think this is a fix, 767 00:28:24,791 --> 00:28:27,000 because I think my bio had said that I was living 768 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,958 in Wicklow, which is true. 769 00:28:28,708 --> 00:28:31,666 But yeah, so they hadn't realised I was from Cork. 770 00:28:31,708 --> 00:28:33,833 So the fact that I was from Cork was totally coincidental, 771 00:28:33,833 --> 00:28:34,666 which is gas. 772 00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:35,416 Yeah, right. 773 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,125 Yeah, right. 774 00:28:37,958 --> 00:28:40,166 We know what we're like down here, yeah, you know? 775 00:28:40,375 --> 00:28:42,916 But apparently, they didn't realise it. 776 00:28:43,458 --> 00:28:44,208 But no, it's brilliant. 777 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:46,166 And like, the thing is, obviously, as you say, 778 00:28:46,458 --> 00:28:47,708 like, Mercier Press is iconic. 779 00:28:47,708 --> 00:28:48,958 They're still producing amazing. 780 00:28:49,708 --> 00:28:52,291 They're the oldest independent publishing house in Ireland. 781 00:28:52,291 --> 00:28:56,208 And they're still churning out amazing writers and even 782 00:28:56,208 --> 00:28:58,000 things like Theo Dorgan's recent one there, 783 00:28:58,083 --> 00:29:00,708 Camrad was like nominated for the Dublin Literary Award 784 00:29:00,708 --> 00:29:01,541 and things like that. 785 00:29:01,541 --> 00:29:03,291 So there's amazing writers on the books, 786 00:29:03,291 --> 00:29:04,375 and it's brilliant to join them. 787 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:06,583 And I suppose what was really important to me as well, 788 00:29:06,583 --> 00:29:09,708 as much as Cork Press, it's a book set in Cork, all of that. 789 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,916 But when I worked with Dee and was chatting to her at first, 790 00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:14,541 I could tell she really got the book. 791 00:29:15,291 --> 00:29:17,708 And it just was a very collaborative relationship 792 00:29:17,708 --> 00:29:18,375 from the start. 793 00:29:18,416 --> 00:29:20,916 And I think it's just so important to have that 794 00:29:20,916 --> 00:29:22,541 and to have someone who actually understands 795 00:29:22,541 --> 00:29:24,416 what you're trying to do or understands 796 00:29:24,416 --> 00:29:27,041 where you're coming from with a book. 797 00:29:27,375 --> 00:29:30,666 When you maybe disagree on the smaller bits or on the details 798 00:29:30,916 --> 00:29:33,458 that you're able to come to some sort of solution 799 00:29:33,625 --> 00:29:37,250 or some sort of middle ground or something that works really well. 800 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:40,458 So no, it's been a very collaborative relationship from the start. 801 00:29:40,458 --> 00:29:42,583 So for me, that's been brilliant as well 802 00:29:42,583 --> 00:29:44,416 as them being this kind of iconic press. 803 00:29:44,416 --> 00:29:47,791 Actually, for me, it's the relationships as well is so important. 804 00:29:48,291 --> 00:29:49,458 Yeah, absolutely. 805 00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:54,333 And for an aspiring writer, what's the single piece of practical advice 806 00:29:54,375 --> 00:29:55,500 you give them to get started? 807 00:29:55,791 --> 00:29:57,041 I suppose going back to what I was 808 00:29:57,041 --> 00:29:59,250 saying about making time and finding time, 809 00:29:59,750 --> 00:30:02,416 even if it's just something that I learned, 810 00:30:02,416 --> 00:30:04,333 one of the things I learned very early on through the right 811 00:30:04,333 --> 00:30:07,500 like a girl things is that even if it's just 15 minutes a day, 812 00:30:08,875 --> 00:30:11,625 find your time and like I always 813 00:30:11,625 --> 00:30:14,333 like I have again back to my post-its. 814 00:30:14,625 --> 00:30:18,041 I have a post-it up in my office and it's like I'd rather write. 815 00:30:18,041 --> 00:30:19,708 I'd rather spend time writing than 816 00:30:19,708 --> 00:30:21,708 spend time being sad that I wasn't writing. 817 00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:23,208 You know what I mean? Or that I didn't write. 818 00:30:23,458 --> 00:30:24,291 Because that's what happens. 819 00:30:24,291 --> 00:30:26,083 You kind of end up going, oh, I should have been writing. 820 00:30:26,083 --> 00:30:29,125 And then you spend all this time like, well, I spend this time 821 00:30:29,166 --> 00:30:30,125 kind of giving out to myself. 822 00:30:30,125 --> 00:30:32,833 And actually, if I had just spent that time giving out to myself, 823 00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:37,291 writing for 10 minutes, just just even if it's 10, 15 minutes a day. 824 00:30:37,291 --> 00:30:38,083 And there was times when I was 825 00:30:38,083 --> 00:30:39,458 writing this book, that's all I could grab, 826 00:30:39,500

--> 00:30:43,333 you know, because I have a very busy job and quite a busy life 827 00:30:43,333 --> 00:30:44,208 in terms of other things. 828 00:30:44,291 --> 00:30:46,875 And so there was times when all I could manage maybe is 15 minutes 829 00:30:46,875 --> 00:30:48,791 first thing in the morning or first thing at night. 830 00:30:49,083 --> 00:30:52,000 And you know what? Maybe it was absolute crap, but it was done 831 00:30:52,041 --> 00:30:53,291 and it was writing and it was getting 832 00:30:53,291 --> 00:30:55,166 moving and it was keeping the brain going. 833 00:30:55,208 --> 00:30:59,750 So that's actually my tip that I think just write. 834 00:30:59,833 --> 00:31:01,416 I'm like, stop waiting for the perfect 835 00:31:01,416 --> 00:31:03,000 moment to write or the perfect office 836 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,791 or the perfect place, you know. 837 00:31:04,791 --> 00:31:07,250 I mean, yeah, we all want our cozy little nook, you know, 838 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:08,041 with our cup of tea. 839 00:31:08,041 --> 00:31:10,083 And sometimes you just don't have that, you know what I mean? 840 00:31:10,375 --> 00:31:11,791 So you just have to do it. 841 00:31:12,208 --> 00:31:15,708 And yeah, like, don't get AI to write if you just do it yourself. 842 00:31:15,708 --> 00:31:16,541 You have to do it. 843 00:31:16,708 --> 00:31:18,166 If you want to be a writer, you have to write. 844 00:31:19,666 --> 00:31:20,375 Very true. 845 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,291 And getting published can seem like 846 00:31:23,291 --> 00:31:25,291 a real daunting mountain to climb. 847 00:31:25,416 --> 00:31:25,750 Yeah. 848 00:31:25,875 --> 00:31:27,208 A lot of practical advice here for 849 00:31:27,208 --> 00:31:29,166 local writers looking just even to find 850 00:31:29,166 --> 00:31:30,833 a community, a supportive community 851 00:31:30,833 --> 00:31:33,166 and get their work noticed by publishing. 852 00:31:33,541 --> 00:31:36,125 Yeah, I think for me, getting the community is so important. 853 00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:37,791 A couple of us from the Write Like A Girl 854 00:31:38,416 --> 00:31:40,500 courses have kind of got together and we're all in the WhatsApp group 855 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:42,291 and we're spread out like there are a lot of them in the UK. 856 00:31:42,291 --> 00:31:43,875 I think I'm the only one in Ireland, actually. 857 00:31:44,666 --> 00:31:47,500 So a lot of them are in the UK, but it's just having people to go to. 858 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:49,041 And sometimes it's your sharing work, 859 00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:52,958 but sometimes it's actually just, oh, my God, like this can chapter. 860 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,250 And I feel like I'm never going to see the end of it. 861 00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,083 And then it's just people going, I know, I know this or even saying, 862 00:31:58,166 --> 00:32:01,208 have you tried this or what about this or have you tried this writing 863 00:32:01,750 --> 00:32:04,375 game or exercise or something that might help you figure it out? 864 00:32:04,375 --> 00:32:06,208 You know, so but yeah, find your community. 865 00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:09,166 So I think doing those courses, like even look at like your 866 00:32:09,416 --> 00:32:12,291 your local further education colleges or your local universities, 867 00:32:12,291 --> 00:32:13,666 there might be adult education courses. 868 00:32:13,666 --> 00:32:17,083 Like I actually did a creative writing course in the UCC 869 00:32:17,208 --> 00:32:20,333 at the Education Center was the first one that I did back in 2014 870 00:32:20,541 --> 00:32:23,875 or something like that, like and that was brilliant, too, like 871 00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:25,125 and just to set you on the road. 872 00:32:25,125 --> 00:32:28,041 So and it's a great way of meeting people who, you know, 873 00:32:28,083 --> 00:32:29,750 they're trying to do the same thing you are, you know. 874 00:32:30,541 --> 00:32:32,125 And so just exactly. 875 00:32:32,125 --> 00:32:35,125 Yeah, just find kind of the people that you can talk to and chat with 876 00:32:35,125 --> 00:32:37,500 because it's it's so important to be able to do that. 877 00:32:38,041 --> 00:32:41,500 And now that blood and water is officially out in the world. 878 00:32:42,166 --> 00:32:45,125 You mentioned there up to like, what's the next big creative 879 00:32:45,166 --> 00:32:46,375 problem on the rise in for you? 880 00:32:47,458 --> 00:32:52,041 I think now that I have this out and I can hopefully kind of find 881 00:32:52,041 --> 00:32:53,958 a bit more headspace, because honestly, I've just been 882 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,750 it's just been blood and water all day long for the last while. 883 00:32:58,125 --> 00:32:59,666 I'm going to work more on book two. 884 00:32:59,666 --> 00:33:01,291 It's going to be set in Cork. 885 00:33:01,333 --> 00:33:03,083 It's going to be kind of about friendship. 886 00:33:03,333 --> 00:33:05,666 It's going to be a bit of creepiness in there, I think. 887 00:33:06,083 --> 00:33:08,458 I'm kind of working on how much of it is going to be in there. 888 00:33:08,541 --> 00:33:09,958 But yeah, I think it's going to be. 889 00:33:09,958 --> 00:33:12,291 Yeah, it's going to be a little bit darker, but I'm kind of. 890 00:33:12,291 --> 00:33:13,416 Yeah, I don't want to say too much 891 00:33:13,416 --> 00:33:14,291 about it because I've had to go back 892 00:33:14,291 --> 00:33:15,750 to the drawing board a few times on it, 893 00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:17,833 so I'm still firming up a lot of bits. 894 00:33:17,833 --> 00:33:19,333 But yeah, I know I've kind of started working on that. 895 00:33:19,916 --> 00:33:20,750 Great. Right. 896 00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:23,541 Well, thanks for so much for chatting 897 00:33:23,541 --> 00:33:25,166 with us on the Cork Creative Podcast. 898 00:33:25,208 --> 00:33:29,000 You can like more about Rebecca and her book, Blood and Water. 899 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,916 You can find links to her website and socials on Cork Creative.ie 900 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:33,041 Thanks Rebecca. 901 00:33:33,291 --> 00:33:34,375 No, thanks a million, Geraldine. 902 00:33:34,375 --> 00:33:35,375 Thank you. Super.