บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 78 Stanley Notte, Creative Director

know, and the freedom. 74 00:03:36,041 --> 00:03:38,791 I mean, I can't describe to the difference between the freedom in Cork 75 00:03:38,958 --> 00:03:40,500 and the lack of freedom in London. 76 00:03:41,333 --> 00:03:43,375 We had like a 500 metre radius around the house 77 00:03:43,375 --> 00:03:47,125 that we were allowed to explore in London and anything beyond that. 78 00:03:47,125 --> 00:03:48,291 And it was panic stations. 79 00:03:48,875 --> 00:03:50,833 We'd come home here, get out of bed at nine o'clock in the morning, 80 00:03:50,958 --> 00:03:54,625 go to the door, you know, to get where you were back at 10 o'clock at night 81 00:03:54,625 --> 00:03:56,625 or before that, only if you were hungry. 82 00:03:57,250 --> 00:04:00,958 And like like slogging apples and going collecting blackberries 83 00:04:01,083 --> 00:04:02,833 and chopping trees. 84 00:04:03,916 --> 00:04:06,500 There's things you just never, ever had. 85 00:04:06,791 --> 00:04:10,375 And I don't even think it was on the on the radar in London. 86 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:10,916 Do you know what I mean? 87 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:12,791 It's just a completely different way of life. 88 00:04:12,791 --> 00:04:16,250 I mean, look, but I've a brother and a sister went back to London 89 00:04:16,333 --> 00:04:18,000 fairly quickly after they left school. 90 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:18,916 My younger brother and sister. 91 00:04:19,791 --> 00:04:21,041 And they've made their lives there. 92 00:04:21,958 --> 00:04:23,416 I had children very young. 93 00:04:23,416 --> 00:04:26,166 I was 20 when we had our first girl, Eileen and I. 94 00:04:26,708 --> 00:04:28,833 And I always knew I wasn't going to bring children up in London. 95 00:04:29,125 --> 00:04:32,166 I always know just from my own experience of the of the two. 96 00:04:32,166 --> 00:04:35,708 You know, so yeah, I suppose the connections. 97 00:04:36,083 --> 00:04:37,291 It's such an interesting question. 98 00:04:37,291 --> 00:04:38,625 I've never really thought about that. 99 00:04:39,333 --> 00:04:40,333 Certainly friendship is one. 100 00:04:41,291 --> 00:04:42,583 Language is definitely another. 101 00:04:42,583 --> 00:04:44,291 And freedom would be the other one. 102 00:04:45,291 --> 00:04:48,125 So talking about the creation, like from writing fiction 103 00:04:48,541 --> 00:04:51,583 and performing slam poetry to creating visual art, 104 00:04:52,208 --> 00:04:54,250 you're incredibly multi-talented. 105 00:04:54,583 --> 00:04:58,375 What first sparked your passion for such diverse creative outlets? 106 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:00,791 It's been an interesting journey. 107 00:05:00,791 --> 00:05:04,083 So I have a brother who is and I'm not exaggerating, 108 00:05:04,083 --> 00:05:07,333 a world famous artist within a certain, you know, he's a street artist. 109 00:05:07,875 --> 00:05:10,541 I don't know if you remember the Asian girl that was on the Kino 110 00:05:10,541 --> 00:05:12,791 a few years ago, Big Long Mural. 111 00:05:12,791 --> 00:05:14,750 He did that. I curated, but he did it. 112 00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:15,833 He's incredibly talented. 113 00:05:16,333 --> 00:05:18,708 He could draw recognisable portraits when he was 10. 114 00:05:19,833 --> 00:05:20,916 I was the logical one. 115 00:05:21,375 --> 00:05:24,541 I was good at maths and problem solving. 116 00:05:25,291 --> 00:05:28,333 And, you know, for a very, very long time, I didn't believe I was creative. 117 00:05:28,333 --> 00:05:30,416 But then when you so there was something happened around. 118 00:05:30,791 --> 00:05:33,208 I started writing when I was around 40 or two years 119 00:05:33,208 --> 00:05:34,583 before I was diagnosed with depression. 120 00:05:35,291 --> 00:05:39,250 And I don't know that that was it was part of that was the need 121 00:05:39,250 --> 00:05:41,708 to express what was going on with me that was causing depression. 122 00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:45,708 But also it was a kind of suppressed creativity coming to life. 123 00:05:46,333 --> 00:05:49,333 My mother has said she hadn't said to me after she passed. 124 00:05:49,333 --> 00:05:52,333 Somebody said to me that my mom was always I often said to her 125 00:05:52,625 --> 00:05:55,250 that I drew a lot in my teenagers. I have no recollection. 126 00:05:56,208 --> 00:05:58,166 I do remember doing lots of jigsaw puzzles. 127 00:05:58,166 --> 00:06:03,041 And I do remember creating a building, a castle out of cardboard 128 00:06:03,666 --> 00:06:05,750 when we were in the place called Dade Street in London. 129 00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:08,208 But the only reason remember that is that I left it out and it got saturated. 130 00:06:08,208 --> 00:06:11,875 I remember looking out the window at it being literally collapsing before my eyes. 131 00:06:12,541 --> 00:06:14,083 So I think it was more of a suppressed 132 00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:20,333 because I said, you know, Finbarr was so talented, I think we kind of thought 133 00:06:20,333 --> 00:06:24,791 there's no point. And then I started writing. And then. 134 00:06:26,750 --> 00:06:29,166 So I know this is not that it's a tough one. 135 00:06:29,166 --> 00:06:30,791 I just get a bit more when I think about it. 136 00:06:31,375 --> 00:06:34,583 My life changed. I don't know the date, but I was I was up 137 00:06:34,583 --> 00:06:36,208 down to Dublin with the defence force. 138 00:06:36,208 --> 00:06:38,458 I was involved with the Defence Force Association. 139 00:06:39,958 --> 00:06:43,000 And I was leaving the office one day a quarter to three to get the three o'clock 140 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,625 train down to the old days when the next one wasn't until half five. 141 00:06:47,166 --> 00:06:49,416 And somebody said, oh, I was home to have a wheelchair. 142 00:06:49,416 --> 00:06:52,416 And I know 99 999 times over thousand. 143 00:06:52,416 --> 00:06:53,708 I said, no, I need to get the train. 144 00:06:53,708 --> 00:06:55,541 But for whatever I said, I said,

OK. 145 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,166 And I was in the train station at 25 past three, but two hours to kill. 146 00:06:59,625 --> 00:07:02,041 And I'd been going up down to Dublin for three years at that stage. 147 00:07:02,041 --> 00:07:05,166 And I noticed the nieces in the train station for the first time ever. 148 00:07:05,833 --> 00:07:08,958 And I went in and I had a rambler out of a big read, a big, big book lover. 149 00:07:09,583 --> 00:07:11,041 And I bought a book on the title. 150 00:07:11,291 --> 00:07:14,875 It's called The Sound of Paper by an American girl called Julia Cameron. 151 00:07:15,416 --> 00:07:18,166 And I read the bulk of it on the way home or a good chunk of it. 152 00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:21,958 And I finished by the following Monday and my life changed with that one book. 153 00:07:22,833 --> 00:07:27,416 It's a book about so it's a kind of a tangent of her foundational work, 154 00:07:27,416 --> 00:07:29,041 which is called The Artist Way, which is 155 00:07:29,041 --> 00:07:31,250 about getting in touch with or reconnecting 156 00:07:31,250 --> 00:07:33,916 with your artist, your creative self and how 157 00:07:33,916 --> 00:07:36,333 you can get tasks and things to do with that. 158 00:07:36,333 --> 00:07:37,375 It's a 12 week course. 159 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:40,750 And I bought the book and I did the course on my own. 160 00:07:41,708 --> 00:07:44,041 And it just had a huge impact on me. 161 00:07:44,875 --> 00:07:48,250 And then when I finished the book, I left 162 00:07:48,250 --> 00:07:50,125 the navy not long after and I spent nine months 163 00:07:50,125 --> 00:07:51,958 writing a novel, which never went anywhere in 164 00:07:51,958 --> 00:07:54,958 the end, mainly because of my lack of belief. 165 00:07:56,041 --> 00:07:59,416 And then I had to start to struggle with the creative stuff again. 166 00:07:59,625 --> 00:08:03,125 And I went back to do The Artist Way again and I was struggling to do it again. 167 00:08:03,666 --> 00:08:07,041 And I came into the kitchen one day and I said to my wife, you know, 168 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:10,833 she talks to the back of this book about what she calls artists way clusters, 169 00:08:10,833 --> 00:08:12,291 which is people working as a group. 170 00:08:13,083 --> 00:08:15,083 Do you know, right now, I feel that would be good 171 00:08:15,083 --> 00:08:17,333 for me because I'm really struggling to it on my own. 172 00:08:17,708 --> 00:08:19,708 And my wife left the house, went into Bandon Road 173 00:08:19,708 --> 00:08:21,833 and there was a flyer on the wall from Artist Way. 174 00:08:23,083 --> 00:08:25,333 You couldn't make it up. You couldn't make it up. 175 00:08:25,333 --> 00:08:28,916 So I went to yeah, I went to I went and did that with Carston Walsh. 176 00:08:30,083 --> 00:08:31,791 She's still a friend of mine and it was amazing. 177 00:08:32,416 --> 00:08:35,333 And as it turns out, she was teaching people how to draw 178 00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:37,458 from a book called Drawing From the Right Side of the Brain. 179 00:08:37,458 --> 00:08:41,833 And I went to that bar and within six weeks was was drawing. 180 00:08:42,833 --> 00:08:44,833 Yeah, nuts. Yeah. 181 00:08:45,625 --> 00:08:48,125 And then they all and then they just all feed in together. 182 00:08:48,125 --> 00:08:50,500 Eventually, you know, the writing, my love of 183 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,041 music, I started to write poems using song titles. 184 00:08:53,041 --> 00:08:55,958 And then because I am such a music fan, you know, I spent 185 00:08:55,958 --> 00:08:59,000 years looking at record sleeves and I'm not looking at them. 186 00:08:59,458 --> 00:09:00,750 Gazing at them, you know. 187 00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:04,000 And then I started developing art for the poems. 188 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,833 I look back and they were crap, but I did an 189 00:09:05,833 --> 00:09:07,416 exhibition because I thought it was so amazing. 190 00:09:08,791 --> 00:09:11,291 And then they eventually just turned into all sorts of things. 191 00:09:11,333 --> 00:09:14,375 And then all those things you've done as a as a 192 00:09:14,375 --> 00:09:17,416 younger person comes back, come back, come out of you. 193 00:09:17,875 --> 00:09:23,000 So I know design record sleeves for pieces of poems that I do. 194 00:09:23,916 --> 00:09:27,250 And a friend of mine said to me one time, you know, you have been your starts up. 195 00:09:27,250 --> 00:09:28,916 No, I'm not sure what this and he said to me. 196 00:09:28,916 --> 00:09:31,416 Listen, he said, what you're doing is incredibly sad. 197 00:09:31,416 --> 00:09:35,250 And what I think is that all those years of buying and 198 00:09:35,250 --> 00:09:38,375 studying and immersing yourself in the music and the art 199 00:09:38,916 --> 00:09:41,708 and the fashion is just that's been your college. 200 00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:46,250 And it just I mean, you know, I don't it is easy for me. 201 00:09:46,416 --> 00:09:49,625 Right. It's not easy to create the stuff because it takes time and effort. 202 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:56,416 But the ideas side of it is easy for me and doing it is easy because I'm just 203 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,250 it's like diving into the deep end of your favourite game. 204 00:10:01,125 --> 00:10:01,750 Do you know what I mean? 205 00:10:02,583 --> 00:10:04,750 And I suppose you just opened that door and 206 00:10:04,750 --> 00:10:07,000 you just walked through it and it just it was 207 00:10:07,875 --> 00:10:08,958 all revealed itself. 208 00:10:09,416 --> 00:10:11,916 Exactly. And the cork stuff has been exactly the same. 209 00:10:12,083 --> 00:10:13,541 I mean, I started doing this for fun. 210 00:10:13,541 --> 00:10:17,000 I used to get T-shirts printed for myself with one word on them. 211 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,416 So I remember getting a T-shirt printed with 212 00:10:18,416 --> 00:10:20,791 defenestration on it just for the sake of it. 213 00:10:21,166 -->

00:10:23,208 And then I started doing cork stuff just because I 214 00:10:23,208 --> 00:10:25,375 love the language, just because I love the language. 215 00:10:26,041 --> 00:10:27,791 And then people say, you know, so I had one at 216 00:10:27,791 --> 00:10:30,625 one stage with a red this T-shirt, this red T-shirt. 217 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,791 And it just had how can I exist on it? 218 00:10:33,208 --> 00:10:34,750 And I remember going into open mics and people 219 00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:36,500 go, is that a reference to the Frank and Walter? 220 00:10:36,541 --> 00:10:37,250 And I go, yeah. 221 00:10:37,791 --> 00:10:39,333 And so people get it. You know what I mean? 222 00:10:39,875 --> 00:10:41,125 And then people started saying, oh, I'd 223 00:10:41,125 --> 00:10:42,750 love one of them or you should be selling them. 224 00:10:43,083 --> 00:10:46,833 And and over long, over quite a period of time, I realised that they were right. 225 00:10:47,416 --> 00:10:48,541 They were absolutely right. 226 00:10:49,708 --> 00:10:52,875 You put a T-shirt like this in front of people with notions on it or I will. 227 00:10:53,166 --> 00:10:54,291 Yeah. And they're just wow. 228 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,083 You know, I love it. Where did you get the idea? 229 00:10:57,083 --> 00:10:59,541 Where did you get the idea of taking a cork phrase and sticking on a T-shirt? 230 00:11:00,041 --> 00:11:01,750 I can't believe nobody else ever thought of it. 231 00:11:02,166 --> 00:11:03,083 I literally can't believe. 232 00:11:03,083 --> 00:11:04,416 It's a simple thing, like, isn't it? 233 00:11:04,458 --> 00:11:06,833 But it's it makes like when you if you're a 234 00:11:06,833 --> 00:11:08,500 Cork person, you're a singer, you're like, oh, 235 00:11:08,875 --> 00:11:09,833 yeah, exactly. 236 00:11:10,083 --> 00:11:10,291 Yeah. 237 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:11,708 Like years are often the best. 238 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,750 And then I suppose the thing with my brain. 239 00:11:14,958 --> 00:11:18,416 And the way I work is I always think big. 240 00:11:18,791 --> 00:11:19,875 That can be a drawback. 241 00:11:19,875 --> 00:11:22,291 And for many years it was because I get my idea 242 00:11:22,291 --> 00:11:24,916 and then I'm immediately imagining I'm on the Graham 243 00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:26,666 Norton show, the late late show or whatever. 244 00:11:27,125 --> 00:11:29,250 And I realised when I was doing the artist's way, 245 00:11:29,708 --> 00:11:33,375 that's a huge barrier because you're jumping too far ahead. 246 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:36,125 And you're not giving it time to progress. 247 00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:38,250 And for somebody like me with a traumatic background 248 00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:41,000 and lack of self-esteem, it becomes a huge barrier. 249 00:11:41,833 --> 00:11:43,958 But the magic with the Cork thing is, you know, I've done a 250 00:11:43,958 --> 00:11:46,125 lot of therapy and I'm in a really good place around myself. 251 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:50,500 And then I can see just endless opportunities. 252 00:11:51,375 --> 00:11:53,958 And then I can also find and again, it's one of my gifts. 253 00:11:53,958 --> 00:11:57,958 I can find ways to create things that are funny and quirky. 254 00:11:58,833 --> 00:12:00,416 And that was a drawback for a while. 255 00:12:00,416 --> 00:12:01,625 I thought, oh, it's only a niche market. 256 00:12:01,708 --> 00:12:04,500 But actually, when you sit down and think about it, it's not a niche market. 257 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,791 It is Cork. And you can say that's niche. 258 00:12:06,791 --> 00:12:10,500 But there's Cork people all over the world and there's millions of them. 259 00:12:10,791 --> 00:12:16,166 And I think one of the amazing things about Cork is like this thing is you could 260 00:12:16,166 --> 00:12:17,958 replicate this for every county in the country. 261 00:12:18,208 --> 00:12:19,250 I've no doubt over that. 262 00:12:19,583 --> 00:12:22,958 But I don't know of another county that has the same breadth of language. 263 00:12:23,708 --> 00:12:26,208 I don't know of another county that has the same type of humour. 264 00:12:26,791 --> 00:12:28,458 I don't know if there's another county that are as 265 00:12:28,458 --> 00:12:30,875 good as I've taken the mick out of themselves as we are. 266 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:34,166 I don't know of another county where the north so divide in 267 00:12:34,166 --> 00:12:39,750 the main city is huge, but it's huge in in such a fun way. 268 00:12:40,291 --> 00:12:40,875 Do you know what I mean? 269 00:12:41,541 --> 00:12:43,833 So I mean, yeah, you could replicate it for other places, 270 00:12:43,833 --> 00:12:46,791 but there's something about the way cork people go at it. 271 00:12:47,208 --> 00:12:48,291 That is completely unique. 272 00:12:49,166 --> 00:12:51,666 And I've been very fortunate that I'm able to put 273 00:12:51,666 --> 00:12:56,833 that in in in in play on things in ways that people get. 274 00:12:56,833 --> 00:12:57,458 Do you know what I mean? 275 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:03,416 And you touched there about your mental health, like you're a prominent advocate 276 00:13:03,416 --> 00:13:06,166 for mental health awareness and that thread runs 277 00:13:06,166 --> 00:13:08,833 through a lot of your poetry and your speaking work. 278 00:13:09,291 --> 00:13:13,083 How did you first decide to make that part of your creative identity? 279 00:13:13,291 --> 00:13:14,666 And was it ever a difficult choice? 280 00:13:15,208 --> 00:13:16,375 It wasn't a choice at all. 281 00:13:17,333 --> 00:13:18,041 It was part of. 282 00:13:18,041 --> 00:13:19,375 It was part of getting one. 283 00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:23,791 So I have a series of books here on the on a that I did a couple of years ago. 284 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:28,833 And the six short stories in in the books, five 285 00:13:28,833 --> 00:13:31,416 of them as bleak as anything you will have read. 286 00:13:32,416 -->

00:13:37,166 And they were all written when I was writing for us prior to my diagnosis. 287 00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:42,500 I had no idea. And I would have said and I would have put a lot of money on the 288 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,416 fact that they were not autobiographical when I when I wrote them. 289 00:13:46,083 --> 00:13:48,625 And then when I went back and looked at them a few years later, they're not 290 00:13:48,625 --> 00:13:53,125 completely autobiographical, but the themes and the darkness and the fear. 291 00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:55,125 Is completely autobiographical. 292 00:13:55,958 --> 00:13:59,541 And I believe that it was if it was decided, it was 293 00:13:59,541 --> 00:14:02,375 decided by something inside me that I can't do this anymore. 294 00:14:02,583 --> 00:14:03,875 I need to get this out into the world. 295 00:14:04,375 --> 00:14:06,000 So it was never a decision for me. 296 00:14:06,541 --> 00:14:11,458 And then when I was diagnosed with depression, I turns out I'm a freak of nature 297 00:14:11,458 --> 00:14:14,666 because I just told everybody I I didn't 298 00:14:14,666 --> 00:14:17,000 actually understand that most people don't do that. 299 00:14:17,208 --> 00:14:18,125 You know, yeah, yeah. 300 00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:21,375 You just I suppose a lot of people find it difficult. 301 00:14:21,916 --> 00:14:26,041 They would prefer almost to just let's just avoid the elephant in the room. 302 00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:29,375 But it's it's it's quite a nice feeling then 303 00:14:29,375 --> 00:14:31,250 for someone to actually engage with someone like. 304 00:14:31,625 --> 00:14:34,833 Yeah, 100 percent. And I'm not being I'm not being critical for other people. 305 00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:37,625 I just don't understand that because that's not how I work. 306 00:14:38,291 --> 00:14:39,625 It's just your way. It's just my way. 307 00:14:40,041 --> 00:14:42,208 And and I suppose, you know, in lots of ways, I just 308 00:14:42,208 --> 00:14:44,750 don't have that fear of things that other people have. 309 00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:45,291 Do you know what I mean? 310 00:14:46,416 --> 00:14:48,250 And it's a blessing and it's a gift to my mom. 311 00:14:48,750 --> 00:14:51,583 I mean, my mom had this gift for people to stop on the street, complete strangers 312 00:14:51,583 --> 00:14:55,583 and tell her all tell her tell her all their problems and we'd be with them. 313 00:14:55,791 --> 00:14:56,916 And we're like, what's going on here? 314 00:14:57,083 --> 00:14:58,791 You know, so I don't know. 315 00:14:58,791 --> 00:15:00,500 Somehow that trans and interesting. 316 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,958 My dad is is completely different, completely closed in that area. 317 00:15:05,208 --> 00:15:08,625 But that's just the way I've always been as far as I can remember. 318 00:15:09,833 --> 00:15:13,083 And has your mental health journey impacted your area? 319 00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:16,916 And how does your kind of creativity help you navigate those challenges? 320 00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:20,750 Is it just that it makes you just not give a crap like her? 321 00:15:21,416 --> 00:15:24,041 Well, it's helped me to consolidate that position. 322 00:15:25,208 --> 00:15:29,250 There was it was always about, I mean, I just didn't give a crap. 323 00:15:30,750 --> 00:15:34,291 The creativity helped me get well, that's the first thing that was the huge outlet. 324 00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:38,166 Writing those stories, writing the poems. 325 00:15:38,875 --> 00:15:42,125 And it was huge amount of themes about mental health. 326 00:15:42,166 --> 00:15:43,541 And that all helped me. 327 00:15:43,541 --> 00:15:46,166 And even it was helped me before I even knew it. 328 00:15:47,208 --> 00:15:53,041 That's so that's, you know, an incredible gift to be given because I'm I mean, I'm 329 00:15:53,041 --> 00:15:54,708 not 100 percent well, I'm not sure if 330 00:15:54,708 --> 00:15:57,375 anybody who has a mental health issue like I do is 331 00:15:57,375 --> 00:15:59,166 ever 100 percent well, but I'm very, very 332 00:15:59,166 --> 00:16:01,416 well known in comparison to what I used to be. 333 00:16:01,791 --> 00:16:03,625 And what it also did was allowed me to start 334 00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:06,583 expressing myself even more accurately if you 335 00:16:06,583 --> 00:16:10,208 want. And then you find people say you find your tribe and you find your family. 336 00:16:10,833 --> 00:16:13,083 You just find all these other creative people. 337 00:16:13,083 --> 00:16:15,125 And it was amazing for me to be in rooms of 338 00:16:15,125 --> 00:16:17,708 people where we said, oh, I think I might put 339 00:16:17,708 --> 00:16:19,041 some music to that poem and all. 340 00:16:19,041 --> 00:16:19,750 That's a great idea. 341 00:16:20,333 --> 00:16:22,791 Whereas, you know, in school, I played an 342 00:16:22,791 --> 00:16:24,666 awful lot of football and I love the game. 343 00:16:25,291 --> 00:16:26,416 But there's not many people in that 344 00:16:26,416 --> 00:16:28,875 environment are saying, oh, I'm writing songs or maybe 345 00:16:28,875 --> 00:16:32,833 no, it's different. So that's and that's another thing. 346 00:16:32,833 --> 00:16:33,833 Cork is incredible for. 347 00:16:34,208 --> 00:16:36,875 There are so many creative people who are, 348 00:16:37,375 --> 00:16:41,500 you know, were so open to working with other 349 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,083 creative people and so willing to give you a 350 00:16:44,083 --> 00:16:45,958 leg up or say to you, well, why don't you do 351 00:16:45,958 --> 00:16:48,250 this or I give you a hand with this or, you 352 00:16:48,250 --> 00:16:49,541 know, so I mean, the only reason I recorded 353 00:16:49,625 --> 00:16:51,583 music with my poetry was because I met a guy 354 00:16:51,583 --> 00:16:53,875 called Malcolm Hookhart from The Last Gecko. 355 00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:56,500 And the first night he played with me, I'd 356 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,541 asked

him that he did an improv thing with it. 357 00:16:59,416 --> 00:17:02,916 And that very first night he said to me, you should do more than really. 358 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:04,916 And then within a month, he said he should 359 00:17:04,916 --> 00:17:07,333 be recording that stuff in the studio and we 360 00:17:07,333 --> 00:17:08,625 went down and recorded the studio and then 361 00:17:08,625 --> 00:17:09,833 we started doing gigs together and he just 362 00:17:09,833 --> 00:17:11,208 started bringing other people with him. 363 00:17:11,375 --> 00:17:14,291 Before I knew it, I was working with The Last Gecko, which is a three piece band. 364 00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:17,458 But that's what Cork people do. 365 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,500 You know, I've worked with Eileen Healy, who's an incredible musician. 366 00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:23,041 I've worked with Megan Ali Maguire. 367 00:17:23,791 --> 00:17:27,791 We have an album coming out shortly and there's a track with each of them on it. 368 00:17:28,375 --> 00:17:29,333 I've worked with them. 369 00:17:29,333 --> 00:17:32,125 I can't think what they call themselves as a band, as a group of musicians down in 370 00:17:32,166 --> 00:17:33,291 Clonacilty. They're incredible. 371 00:17:33,916 --> 00:17:34,958 And I've worked with them. 372 00:17:34,958 --> 00:17:35,958 They've improved behind me. 373 00:17:36,666 --> 00:17:39,000 It's almost like they'd be queuing up to work with you. 374 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:39,500 You know what I mean? 375 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:42,041 It's just and it's the same the other way around for me. 376 00:17:42,041 --> 00:17:43,583 You know, if I'm at something and there's 377 00:17:43,583 --> 00:17:47,291 other poets there, you know, it's just and I'm 378 00:17:47,291 --> 00:17:50,833 sure that's replicated in other places, but it's incredibly strong in Cork. 379 00:17:50,833 --> 00:17:52,125 It's incredibly strong. 380 00:17:52,666 --> 00:17:55,625 OK. And transitioning from your career in 381 00:17:55,625 --> 00:17:58,333 the naval service to the unpredictable world of 382 00:17:58,333 --> 00:18:00,000 air and business must have been daunting. 383 00:18:00,416 --> 00:18:02,583 What's the biggest hurdle you faced during that shift? 384 00:18:03,791 --> 00:18:05,833 The biggest hurdle was going from having a 385 00:18:05,833 --> 00:18:07,750 regular income to not having a regular income. 386 00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:11,375 I mean, like I have a small pension from the Defence Forces, which is a help. 387 00:18:11,375 --> 00:18:13,625 It makes it a little bit easier to do the kind of things I did. 388 00:18:13,625 --> 00:18:15,208 I'm not sure I would be doing what I did if 389 00:18:15,208 --> 00:18:17,500 I had to go, you know, actually really earn a 390 00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,041 living. I get a full time job. 391 00:18:19,958 --> 00:18:22,166 But the shift from a regular income to a lack 392 00:18:22,166 --> 00:18:24,541 of a regular income was that was challenging. 393 00:18:24,916 --> 00:18:27,750 And, you know, I and obviously we've had 394 00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:30,250 the artist payment scheme and it's going to be 395 00:18:30,250 --> 00:18:32,291 reinvigorated and the feedback from that has 396 00:18:32,291 --> 00:18:34,500 been incredible about the stability is given. 397 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:36,958 It's given us some, you know, the fact that 398 00:18:36,958 --> 00:18:38,583 they're creating more because they're not worried 399 00:18:38,583 --> 00:18:41,333 about paying the rent. I mean, I have absolutely 400 00:18:41,333 --> 00:18:44,791 massive admiration for anybody who commits to a 401 00:18:44,791 --> 00:18:51,291 career in the arts full time with no backup whatsoever, because it is it's like a. 402 00:18:52,333 --> 00:18:56,833 It must feel like a yawning chasm underneath you the whole time. 403 00:18:57,125 --> 00:18:58,833 Do you know what I mean? And yet they do. 404 00:18:59,291 --> 00:19:02,083 Yeah. And yet, you know, thousands of people in Ireland do it. 405 00:19:02,083 --> 00:19:03,500 And, you know, one of my bug bearers about 406 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,625 Ireland is that, you know, we love our artists. 407 00:19:07,583 --> 00:19:08,708 We particularly love them when they've 408 00:19:08,708 --> 00:19:10,250 been successful because we're not particularly 409 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:13,750 fond of giving them money on the way up or support on the way up. 410 00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:15,833 That would be a bug bearer of mine. 411 00:19:15,833 --> 00:19:17,625 It's a particular bug bearer now because 412 00:19:17,625 --> 00:19:19,833 we've come out of the pandemic and everybody knows 413 00:19:19,875 --> 00:19:23,041 that in the pandemic, people appreciate artists more than they ever did. 414 00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:25,541 You know, our lives would have been much, much more eroded. 415 00:19:25,833 --> 00:19:29,166 And yet we're still in a place where, you know, 416 00:19:29,166 --> 00:19:31,250 most poets do most of their readings for free. 417 00:19:32,208 --> 00:19:34,958 But all, you know, for me, all I can do and I keep 418 00:19:34,958 --> 00:19:36,916 saying this, all I can do is keep doing what I do 419 00:19:37,416 --> 00:19:39,666 and do it to the best of my ability, enjoy 420 00:19:39,666 --> 00:19:42,291 it and, you know, believe that it will work. 421 00:19:42,291 --> 00:19:44,333 And it will work. I know that it will work. 422 00:19:45,583 --> 00:19:47,833 But it's a hugely challenging world. We live in at the same time. 423 00:19:47,875 --> 00:19:50,125 And I'm so glad that I did the artist's way and 424 00:19:50,125 --> 00:19:51,833 I'm so glad I've done years and years of therapy 425 00:19:52,333 --> 00:19:55,458 because I can maintain a positive attitude most of the time throughout this. 426 00:19:55,458 --> 00:19:59,875 I mean, turn on the news right now and yeah, man, it's the world. 427 00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:04,958 It's a very, very I mean, I haven't

put this on a T-shirt yet, Geraldine, 428 00:20:04,958 --> 00:20:06,416 but I'm going to put it on a T-shirt. 429 00:20:06,666 --> 00:20:08,333 Right. Jim Morrison was right. 430 00:20:08,958 --> 00:20:09,833 People are strange. 431 00:20:13,583 --> 00:20:14,375 That is so true. 432 00:20:14,875 --> 00:20:15,208 So true. 433 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,375 I'm speaking about your everyday products, like with the featuring the phrases like 434 00:20:21,375 --> 00:20:23,750 "I will you and what you're wearing now" notions. 435 00:20:24,166 --> 00:20:28,000 How do you decide which things capture the right energy to immortalize? 436 00:20:29,166 --> 00:20:30,541 Well, I think initially that it was, you 437 00:20:30,541 --> 00:20:32,375 know, there's a number of them are just classics. 438 00:20:32,625 --> 00:20:35,333 I will, you know, some like a chalk it down. 439 00:20:35,333 --> 00:20:36,166 They're just classics. 440 00:20:36,416 --> 00:20:39,208 I actually didn't do notions for a long time with somebody else, 441 00:20:39,625 --> 00:20:41,166 reminded me that you need to do it. 442 00:20:41,791 --> 00:20:45,000 So I kind of got on it, but then I'm always open to suggestions. 443 00:20:45,083 --> 00:20:47,666 And then, you know, a little bit like creating anything. 444 00:20:47,708 --> 00:20:50,666 The final call has to be or somebody would say to you, you've written a story, 445 00:20:51,333 --> 00:20:53,125 you know, that part there I think would be improved. 446 00:20:53,125 --> 00:20:55,083 I don't like that part, but it's my decision as well. 447 00:20:55,083 --> 00:20:57,625 It stays in on the problem for me initially. 448 00:20:57,875 --> 00:21:00,875 And I mean, believe it or not, I've cut back on the amount of products I have, 449 00:21:01,375 --> 00:21:02,791 especially the amount of phrase at one 450 00:21:02,791 --> 00:21:05,375 stage, I had about 25 different phrases on books. 451 00:21:05,375 --> 00:21:07,333 I used to write conversations with them. 452 00:21:07,625 --> 00:21:11,291 Daldobahle way, flake on the kettle, Barry's tea. 453 00:21:11,958 --> 00:21:14,916 I will, you know, some language, like as an actual conversation. 454 00:21:15,958 --> 00:21:18,708 And, you know, down the road, I'm certainly 455 00:21:18,708 --> 00:21:20,375 I'm going to expand back into all of them. 456 00:21:20,958 --> 00:21:23,875 But at the moment, I'm just trying to keep it a little bit more contained. 457 00:21:25,208 --> 00:21:27,333 I mean, I love language because I see things in my head. 458 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,291 I remember when I did my first ever Toastmaster speech, 459 00:21:30,916 --> 00:21:35,458 I talked about my love of language because the speech was what brought you here. 460 00:21:36,166 --> 00:21:38,833 And I remember quoting an R.E.M. lyric that says, 461 00:21:38,833 --> 00:21:41,208 at my most beautiful, I count your eyelashes. 462 00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,791 And I see that in my head. 463 00:21:43,791 --> 00:21:49,416 And I don't see it like a visual close up, but I see it and I feel it in my head. 464 00:21:49,875 --> 00:21:51,541 And that's what language has always done to me. 465 00:21:52,041 --> 00:21:56,333 Always, whether it's Cork language or particularly music, lyrics, poetry, 466 00:21:57,541 --> 00:21:59,375 writers are all the time doing that word play thing. 467 00:21:59,375 --> 00:22:00,291 I was doing that as a child. 468 00:22:00,625 --> 00:22:01,083 Do you know what I mean? 469 00:22:01,458 --> 00:22:03,875 Somebody would say something, you're thinking of another word straight away. 470 00:22:04,333 --> 00:22:06,666 So yeah, that's the madness. 471 00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:08,833 Madness. Madness, that's it. 472 00:22:08,833 --> 00:22:11,500 And your visual artist depicts like 473 00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,416 cherished places like Sir Henry's and Patrick's Hill. 474 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:19,458 What makes these specific locations so vital to the rebel spirit for you? 475 00:22:20,916 --> 00:22:22,166 Henry's because it's so iconic. 476 00:22:22,875 --> 00:22:23,958 It was an easy pick. 477 00:22:24,416 --> 00:22:26,166 I mean, I was never a Henry's clubber. 478 00:22:26,166 --> 00:22:27,166 I was an indie kid. 479 00:22:27,166 --> 00:22:29,875 I was in the front bar and I was going to see bands like the Super furry animals. 480 00:22:31,541 --> 00:22:33,000 But the vibe of the place. 481 00:22:33,416 --> 00:22:35,833 I mean, Henry's was known all over Europe. 482 00:22:35,833 --> 00:22:37,958 People forget that all over York. 483 00:22:38,208 --> 00:22:39,833 I remember when people played in Millstreet 484 00:22:39,833 --> 00:22:41,875 and Mike Pickering had DJ'd on Henry's. 485 00:22:42,291 --> 00:22:46,083 And he bought the lads Fish Goes Doop and maybe Stevie G. 486 00:22:46,083 --> 00:22:50,958 Bought a few of them up and actually gave an oration about what Henry's had done. 487 00:22:50,958 --> 00:22:51,916 Like the place is iconic. 488 00:22:52,208 --> 00:22:54,291 And not just from a clubland point of view. 489 00:22:54,291 --> 00:22:56,041 All the bands that play there on the way up. 490 00:22:56,708 --> 00:22:57,000 Incredible. 491 00:22:57,291 --> 00:22:58,250 Nancy Spain's the same. 492 00:22:58,250 --> 00:22:59,041 I love Nancy's. 493 00:22:59,041 --> 00:22:59,916 I used to go to Nancy's regular. 494 00:22:59,916 --> 00:23:01,250 I was at loads of gigs upstairs. 495 00:23:01,875 --> 00:23:02,750 But that's what you're doing. 496 00:23:02,750 --> 00:23:03,833 You're reconnecting people with it. 497 00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:09,208 Patricks Hill was done just because of the beauty of that stretch of houses. 498 00:23:10,625 --> 00:23:12,083 It's just I think it's an iconic. 499 00:23:12,416 --> 00:23:15,166 And you'll be amazed how many people recognise it immediately. 500 00:23:15,916 --> 00:23:16,416 Immediately. 501 00:23:16,708 --> 00:23:17,541 And then you have people saying, oh, I 502 00:23:17,541 --> 00:23:20,458 went to school

up there and blah, blah, blah. 503 00:23:20,458 --> 00:23:21,750 And the little signs on it. 504 00:23:22,625 --> 00:23:23,916 Posh Gaffs. 505 00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:25,666 Obviously heading towards the soul side. 506 00:23:26,583 --> 00:23:27,625 96 FM. 507 00:23:28,916 --> 00:23:29,916 What's the other one on that? 508 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:33,333 You know, for me, I think what I do is 509 00:23:33,333 --> 00:23:36,000 it's the details that you can do a picture of 510 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,375 Patricks Hill and I don't want to say anyone can do that. 511 00:23:38,583 --> 00:23:39,166 That's incorrect. 512 00:23:39,166 --> 00:23:43,041 And there are amazing images of that scene out there as well. 513 00:23:43,708 --> 00:23:46,583 But what I do is I add this little extra little thing, this little 514 00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:49,708 like hundreds and thousands, you know what I mean? 515 00:23:49,708 --> 00:23:51,208 With the phrases and the signs. 516 00:23:51,583 --> 00:23:55,250 And so, yeah, that was done just because it's just so beautiful. 517 00:23:55,583 --> 00:23:56,500 Quirkiness isn't it? 518 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:57,458 It's just so beautiful. 519 00:23:58,416 --> 00:23:59,791 And again, there's loads of options. 520 00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:00,916 I haven't done Shannon. 521 00:24:01,833 --> 00:24:04,791 You know, I mean, there's just you can do Black Rock Castle. 522 00:24:04,791 --> 00:24:05,375 I haven't done that. 523 00:24:05,375 --> 00:24:07,708 I've used that in other ways, as you know, in the North side, South side, 524 00:24:07,708 --> 00:24:08,083 lower goals. 525 00:24:08,541 --> 00:24:09,458 There's loads of options. 526 00:24:09,791 --> 00:24:11,000 And I'm not the only one. 527 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,458 There's a whole list of artists out there doing 528 00:24:12,458 --> 00:24:14,250 this, a whole list of them out there doing this. 529 00:24:15,333 --> 00:24:17,708 Speaking about the like the North side and South 530 00:24:17,708 --> 00:24:21,625 side divide, it's a legendary part of our culture. 531 00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:23,875 Like how do people react to you playfully 532 00:24:23,875 --> 00:24:26,625 navigating and celebrating the Thrive rate 533 00:24:26,625 --> 00:24:27,708 through your own products? 534 00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:30,916 Ninety nine point nine percent of them absolutely love it. 535 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:34,875 They come up and they literally say to you, oh, my God, I love it. 536 00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:36,958 You get the odd one. 537 00:24:37,416 --> 00:24:38,416 You'll get the odd one. 538 00:24:38,416 --> 00:24:40,541 Somebody said to me a while back and I don't think it's a bit funny. 539 00:24:41,166 --> 00:24:42,583 And I said, well, you know, it's not for you. 540 00:24:42,583 --> 00:24:43,666 It's not for you. 541 00:24:45,083 --> 00:24:48,208 But ninety nine point and not only do they love it, they will then have the crack. 542 00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:49,333 You know what I mean? 543 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:51,958 So when I started doing the social media and 544 00:24:51,958 --> 00:24:55,833 videos, what we do is we shoot it like a half a day. 545 00:24:56,208 --> 00:25:00,791 And the first day we went north and we did the Lord's stuff on the North side. 546 00:25:00,791 --> 00:25:03,291 And people still say to me, I'm from the South side. 547 00:25:03,291 --> 00:25:04,208 No, we're sorry about that. 548 00:25:04,208 --> 00:25:06,666 And I'm going, I'm from talk from the South side myself. 549 00:25:07,208 --> 00:25:08,875 And I didn't know that blabla. 550 00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:10,125 But it's all fun. 551 00:25:10,583 --> 00:25:11,708 It's literally all one. 552 00:25:11,708 --> 00:25:13,625 And a lot of people have said to me, they love 553 00:25:13,625 --> 00:25:16,875 the fact that I celebrate because I'm not trying to 554 00:25:17,458 --> 00:25:21,916 in any shape of, you know, slag people off or make it a big deal. 555 00:25:22,125 --> 00:25:26,250 I'll say I don't like Northsiders or Northsiders don't like. 556 00:25:26,250 --> 00:25:28,416 So I celebrate the fact that we can slag each 557 00:25:28,416 --> 00:25:31,125 other about it because I think that is such a gift 558 00:25:31,458 --> 00:25:33,250 and it is literally such a gift. 559 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:36,166 You know, so this year we're going to run a couple of events. 560 00:25:36,833 --> 00:25:38,000 Can't tell you anything about them. 561 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,666 They're top secret, but they're genuinely top secret, right? 562 00:25:41,666 --> 00:25:47,500 Because we're going to run a couple of events that I think will really spark some 563 00:25:49,375 --> 00:25:50,291 not just interest. 564 00:25:50,291 --> 00:25:50,875 So and this is the other thing. 565 00:25:50,916 --> 00:25:52,250 I mean, it's great fun. 566 00:25:53,416 --> 00:25:56,041 But people are people are incredibly proud of where they're from. 567 00:25:56,041 --> 00:25:57,208 And I think rightly so. 568 00:25:57,208 --> 00:25:58,500 People should be proud of where they're from. 569 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,458 And then you're tapping into that as well. 570 00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:01,291 Do you know what I mean? 571 00:26:03,375 --> 00:26:05,333 No, I again, I would have to say that my 572 00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:07,833 view on being proud away from everyone should be 573 00:26:07,833 --> 00:26:08,583 proud of where they're from. 574 00:26:08,583 --> 00:26:10,041 But there's a way of expressing it as well. 575 00:26:11,083 --> 00:26:13,791 And unfortunately, in certain areas, we lose touch with that. 576 00:26:14,416 --> 00:26:16,375 But if you're doing it in the right way, I 577 00:26:16,375 --> 00:26:18,666 think you'll always get some decent feedback 578 00:26:18,666 --> 00:26:20,250 and connection with people. 579 00:26:20,416 --> 00:26:21,416 And that's what I'm trying to do. 580 00:26:21,791 --> 00:26:22,750 That's what I'm trying to do. 581 00:26:24,416 --> 00:26:26,625 And

speaking about your poetry, how does the 582 00:26:26,625 --> 00:26:29,291 visceral energy of a live spoken word audience 583 00:26:29,291 --> 00:26:33,041 influence the visual arts or influence the visual arts you create? 584 00:26:35,333 --> 00:26:38,500 So I'm like an awful lot of people. I didn't really like poetry in school. 585 00:26:40,083 --> 00:26:42,166 There's an amazing teacher, John O'Shea, 586 00:26:42,541 --> 00:26:45,750 he was so passionate, he was involved in the 587 00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:47,208 Everyman, I remember him acting out lMach Beth 588 00:26:47,208 --> 00:26:51,291 for us, him on his own. But they tell you what the 589 00:26:51,291 --> 00:26:53,083 poem was about, so it was you know underlying 590 00:26:53,083 --> 00:26:54,750 that and red underline that and green double 591 00:26:54,750 --> 00:26:58,291 underlying blah blah blah. And there's always an 592 00:26:58,291 --> 00:26:59,958 element to me that I never like being told what 593 00:26:59,958 --> 00:27:04,833 to do anyway, but also would it be language? 594 00:27:05,458 --> 00:27:10,625 It just felt wrong. So I remember reading Sylvia 595 00:27:10,750 --> 00:27:13,208 Plath's The Mirror, what a piece of writing, 596 00:27:13,958 --> 00:27:16,000 and them explaining to us what it represented. 597 00:27:16,208 --> 00:27:17,416 And I was thinking you didn't need that to 598 00:27:17,416 --> 00:27:19,291 explain that to me. You didn't, do you know what I mean? 599 00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:21,333 But what they never talked about was how does it 600 00:27:21,333 --> 00:27:23,541 make your feel? No, I wouldn't have been thinking 601 00:27:23,541 --> 00:27:26,375 back then you didn't ask me how it feels. But 602 00:27:26,375 --> 00:27:29,500 when I look back into things, you know, the language 603 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:33,458 that I interacted with in books and poetry, it was 604 00:27:33,458 --> 00:27:35,416 always about the feeling, do you know what I mean? 605 00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:39,208 So it was kind of a sterile way of educating. And 606 00:27:39,208 --> 00:27:41,291 like an awful lot of people who are active in the 607 00:27:41,291 --> 00:27:43,125 poetry world, they will tell you that they 608 00:27:43,125 --> 00:27:44,916 left school in the same place and then we'll say, 609 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,291 apology, give me a break, like what did I want 610 00:27:47,291 --> 00:27:50,083 to be listening to that crap. And then I started 611 00:27:50,083 --> 00:27:51,500 attending or very the first time I started 612 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:53,625 attending or very little went for six weeks and I stopped 613 00:27:53,625 --> 00:27:55,666 because I just couldn't cope with how good they 614 00:27:55,666 --> 00:27:59,291 were. The second time went back, I stuck at it. 615 00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:02,666 And then there was two epiphany moments with 616 00:28:02,666 --> 00:28:06,208 spoken word, I saw Julie Gue perform at a kind of 617 00:28:06,208 --> 00:28:08,416 cabernet, which is a fundraiser. And I literally 618 00:28:08,416 --> 00:28:10,375 thought I've never seen anything like this in my 619 00:28:10,583 --> 00:28:14,875 life. I mean, she is unbelievably brilliant. She 620 00:28:14,875 --> 00:28:17,708 has a piece called Dear Society, when you do also 621 00:28:17,708 --> 00:28:20,291 saw your dream. And it's about coming out and 622 00:28:20,291 --> 00:28:23,583 it's just magic, like, you know what I mean? And that 623 00:28:23,583 --> 00:28:26,125 was a huge moment. And one of the things I was 624 00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:28,458 always really good at was, so I remember talking 625 00:28:28,458 --> 00:28:30,083 to her and saying, Oh, my God, you blew my 626 00:28:30,083 --> 00:28:32,500 mind. And I've always been good at that. Never would 627 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,875 bother me going up to anybody and saying, I 628 00:28:33,875 --> 00:28:37,875 thought you were amazing. And that was a shift. 629 00:28:38,416 --> 00:28:40,166 You know, suddenly I realised, well, there's all 630 00:28:40,166 --> 00:28:42,208 this stuff going on here that I wasn't aware of. 631 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:44,625 And then I saw a guy called John Cummons from 632 00:28:44,625 --> 00:28:47,208 Dublin, Perform at a Winter Warmer Festival for 633 00:28:47,208 --> 00:28:50,583 Auvert. And I mean, yeah, he blew my mind. And 634 00:28:50,583 --> 00:28:53,791 I can remember coming over there thinking that's 635 00:28:53,791 --> 00:28:58,083 what I want to do. And it's and again, he's rooted 636 00:28:58,083 --> 00:29:01,666 and Julie Gu is the same. She's rooted in Ireland, 637 00:29:02,375 --> 00:29:05,000 rooted in Cork. John is obviously rooted in 638 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,666 Dublin. And there's this way of coming out of it, 639 00:29:07,875 --> 00:29:10,250 and this way of talking and expressing what 640 00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:13,166 Irishness and Corkness means and what's happening 641 00:29:13,166 --> 00:29:15,208 in the country means to you. So Julie's got 642 00:29:15,208 --> 00:29:17,875 this amazing poem about the Magdalene Sisters. 643 00:29:18,833 --> 00:29:21,916 Again, it just touches you, you know what I 644 00:29:21,916 --> 00:29:26,416 mean? Yeah, that was a serious moment for me. 645 00:29:26,416 --> 00:29:29,000 And then I started performing, which is really 646 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,583 is, you know, in some ways you can describe it as a 647 00:29:31,583 --> 00:29:33,500 matter of just taking the poem off the page 648 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:35,750 because you learn the poem and you recite it. 649 00:29:36,666 --> 00:29:39,708 But then they just took on a whole leaf of life and you take away the reading, 650 00:29:40,083 --> 00:29:42,791 they come into you. And then it's like this part 651 00:29:42,791 --> 00:29:44,625 of you start coming up because what you've written 652 00:29:44,625 --> 00:29:48,291 is in some shape or form autobiographical. And 653 00:29:48,291 --> 00:29:50,791 those parts of you

that felt what you were writing 654 00:29:51,125 --> 00:29:53,916 suddenly come to the fore and you find 655 00:29:53,916 --> 00:29:57,041 you're expressing the poem for me in a completely 656 00:29:57,041 --> 00:29:59,416 different way, in a completely different way. 657 00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:02,166 And then obviously that feeling translates into 658 00:30:02,583 --> 00:30:06,416 your art, your visual art, whatever, because it all influences everything. 659 00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:09,750 And speaking about like say, collaborating 660 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:12,958 with various other creatives and musicians, 661 00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:15,750 like including the experience of supporting 662 00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:18,916 Minton Klesky-Johnson, how do you approach 663 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:22,750 integrating your lyrical and artistic perspective with the vision of others? 664 00:30:24,583 --> 00:30:27,833 Well, see, I don't think about art like that. This is the thing for me. 665 00:30:27,875 --> 00:30:29,916 That's natural. 666 00:30:30,291 --> 00:30:32,791 I just do it. That's literally, I just do 667 00:30:32,791 --> 00:30:36,083 it. So when we did that, I mean, you know, 668 00:30:36,458 --> 00:30:39,666 I remember Cormac Laley rang me and I was like, one of those of you go, 669 00:30:39,666 --> 00:30:42,208 is this really happening? Like, do you know 670 00:30:42,208 --> 00:30:43,750 what I mean? This guy has been around forever. 671 00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:47,541 I was amazed. He was still alive. And he was 672 00:30:47,541 --> 00:30:50,000 amazing on the night. And there was five of us, 673 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,208 I think, that were under support. Actually, Gue, actually couldn't make it. 674 00:30:53,875 --> 00:30:58,208 And it was an incredible experience. Like, I 675 00:30:58,208 --> 00:31:01,416 mean, I have a picture somewhere, it might be on my 676 00:31:01,416 --> 00:31:03,708 website, actually, that somebody took from the 677 00:31:03,708 --> 00:31:06,250 audience and you look at it and go, oh my God. 678 00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:14,500 Yeah. So like, the way I work is, if I'm 679 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,541 asked to do something, my only thought process is, 680 00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:18,791 do I want to do it? And there could be reasons 681 00:31:18,791 --> 00:31:19,916 why you don't want to do it. It might be that 682 00:31:19,958 --> 00:31:23,541 they don't have any money. That wouldn't have been an issue in the early days. 683 00:31:24,750 --> 00:31:26,583 It's possible for me, because I'm quite 684 00:31:26,583 --> 00:31:30,625 strong in my political views. It hasn't happened. 685 00:31:30,625 --> 00:31:31,833 Like, if you asked to do something, I would 686 00:31:31,833 --> 00:31:33,916 say no on the strength of a political view. 687 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:36,458 And the only thing that happens after I say yes, 688 00:31:36,458 --> 00:31:38,500 is I start thinking about the set list and what 689 00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:40,375

I'm going to put together. And for me, 690 00:31:40,375 --> 00:31:43,250 then it's really about what story am I telling 691 00:31:44,083 --> 00:31:47,208 within those problems, because you can put them together in different ways. 692 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,333 But it's never really about anything else. 693 00:31:53,625 --> 00:31:58,166 And I think that's to my benefit. I was actually 694 00:31:58,666 --> 00:32:00,333 talking to somebody about this recently. I 695 00:32:00,333 --> 00:32:02,416 mean, I get nervous before I go on stage, 696 00:32:03,416 --> 00:32:05,375 or I used to know I get nervous when I'm on 697 00:32:05,375 --> 00:32:07,041 the stage, when I start something happens, 698 00:32:07,291 --> 00:32:08,958 sometimes I don't get nervous at all, and sometimes 699 00:32:08,958 --> 00:32:12,083 it's a little bit nervous. But throughout my life, 700 00:32:12,416 --> 00:32:17,666 it's a bit like that idea of not being overly impressed by being asked to meet the 701 00:32:18,666 --> 00:32:20,833 Taoiseach or the president. And I played 702 00:32:20,833 --> 00:32:22,750 football and we went down to Torrance Cross to play 703 00:32:22,833 --> 00:32:24,416 finals, because I was lucky enough to go down 704 00:32:24,416 --> 00:32:27,166 there as a kid. And I went down there as an adult. 705 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:29,416 That was never any nerves. It was just, I'm 706 00:32:29,416 --> 00:32:32,500 here, this is what I do. And I would be going 707 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,041 on stage when I did, Cormac Laley 708 00:32:35,041 --> 00:32:37,625 asked me to do that gig live in St. Luke's, 709 00:32:37,625 --> 00:32:41,041 also asked me to be involved in a show that they, three of them had written, him, 710 00:32:41,083 --> 00:32:43,208 Julie Gue, another guy had written for the 711 00:32:43,208 --> 00:32:48,250 Centenary anniversary, which was about writing 712 00:32:48,250 --> 00:32:53,166 a poem about Ireland in 1916, 2016 and 3016. And I 713 00:32:53,166 --> 00:32:55,750 didn't want to do it initially. But once I decide 714 00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:57,000 then I'm committed, and then it's really 715 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,416 about what am I bringing. And I don't tend not to 716 00:33:00,416 --> 00:33:02,625 overthink it from that point of view. It's just 717 00:33:02,625 --> 00:33:05,458 this, yeah. And again, no, looking back in it, 718 00:33:06,041 --> 00:33:08,583 you know, that was there long before I had 719 00:33:08,583 --> 00:33:10,166 any value on what I did when I was in the place, 720 00:33:10,208 --> 00:33:11,500 but I thought what I'm doing is a complete 721 00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:13,750 waste of time. And I don't think people will get it. 722 00:33:13,958 --> 00:33:15,458 And even when people come up to me saying, 723 00:33:15,458 --> 00:33:17,250 oh, I really like that, I love that poem, 724 00:33:17,250 --> 00:33:20,375 and that one touched me or whatever. It was 725 00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:24,083 difficult to hear that stuff.

But I think that 726 00:33:24,083 --> 00:33:26,583 idea of not overthinking it before had served me 727 00:33:26,583 --> 00:33:28,458 well, because if I'd started to think about it, 728 00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:31,125 I might never have gone and done this, you know 729 00:33:31,125 --> 00:33:33,625 what I mean? It's hard to explain what a lack of 730 00:33:33,625 --> 00:33:35,583 self-esteem does to like, it's really hard to 731 00:33:35,583 --> 00:33:39,500 explain. And then you know that old idea of fake 732 00:33:39,541 --> 00:33:41,750 it, and you make it, man, I was on stages, and 733 00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:46,125 was I fake. I mean, literally, as you're reciting a 734 00:33:46,125 --> 00:33:48,875 poem, thinking there's nobody gets this poetry. 735 00:33:49,583 --> 00:33:50,916 Do you know what I mean? Literally those thoughts 736 00:33:50,916 --> 00:33:53,250 go on through my head as I'm reciting poems. 737 00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,666 And those thoughts go on through my head as people 738 00:33:56,666 --> 00:33:58,583 are coming after me after and saying, oh my God, 739 00:33:58,583 --> 00:34:01,500 I thought that was amazing. You know, it's a weird 740 00:34:01,541 --> 00:34:05,125 thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, to be fair, like, 741 00:34:05,125 --> 00:34:08,708 it's worked out for you, you know, despite all that 742 00:34:08,833 --> 00:34:11,791 maybe negativity that's going on, and still 743 00:34:11,791 --> 00:34:14,625 you've been able to bring us. Yeah. And I mean, 744 00:34:14,625 --> 00:34:15,875 you know, that I said to you all along, there's 745 00:34:15,875 --> 00:34:17,708 a little bit of a, like, it's a little bit of a 746 00:34:17,708 --> 00:34:18,958 miracle in some ways. 747 00:34:20,291 --> 00:34:23,375 And you learn as you go and you just take steps in different directions. 748 00:34:23,375 --> 00:34:24,291 And I was always brave. 749 00:34:24,916 --> 00:34:27,208 Julie Gue said that to me a long time ago about herself, 750 00:34:27,208 --> 00:34:30,875 that she was always brave in the sense she was prepared to try new things 751 00:34:30,875 --> 00:34:34,000 and put herself in what could be an uncomfortable situation. 752 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,041 Because it's kind of easy to sit on your laurels, you know what I mean? 753 00:34:37,208 --> 00:34:39,541 I write this type of poem, it's done quite well. 754 00:34:40,708 --> 00:34:44,500 Or whatever it is, I do this type of art or I'm in this type of band. 755 00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:47,416 But it's harder to be. 756 00:34:48,916 --> 00:34:50,041 Shifting and shaping. 757 00:34:51,583 --> 00:34:52,250 For yourself. 758 00:34:53,041 --> 00:34:56,708 But then I look at all the artists that I've loved over the years through music 759 00:34:56,708 --> 00:35:00,708 and they've all done that Bowie, Paul Simon, The Beatles. 760 00:35:01,375 --> 00:35:04,125 They've all shifted and shaped and gone and done different things. 761 00:35:04,750 --> 00:35:06,000 You know, even Suade who now have a 762 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,500 second career, which I haven't really followed. 763 00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:12,458 Even you look at their and they get tarnished as being, 764 00:35:12,791 --> 00:35:14,500 you know, sound in the same, but they don't. 765 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,625 If you listen, if you listen to the first, second and third albums, 766 00:35:16,625 --> 00:35:17,750 they're all completely different. 767 00:35:18,291 --> 00:35:19,541 And I've always liked that. 768 00:35:19,916 --> 00:35:21,916 I've never liked that idea of repetitiveness. 769 00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:22,750 Do you know what I mean? 770 00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:24,125 I've never. 771 00:35:24,750 --> 00:35:26,791 And, you know, look, everyone's into their own thing. 772 00:35:28,875 --> 00:35:32,375 You're just I just think if you're an artist, if you're a creator, 773 00:35:33,166 --> 00:35:37,625 then everything you digest is looking to be re re regurgitated in some way. 774 00:35:38,291 --> 00:35:42,583 Mainly, I think certainly from my point of view, like anything that I'm creating, 775 00:35:42,583 --> 00:35:47,541 the Cork stuff, the poetry with some titles, the art about the music, 776 00:35:47,833 --> 00:35:52,125 they're all for me, homages to these things that I've loved 777 00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:56,041 and have given me so much and continue to give me so much. 778 00:35:56,708 --> 00:35:57,750 It's all about tribute. 779 00:35:58,041 --> 00:36:01,208 Like for me, it's all about tribute, I don't I did for a while. 780 00:36:01,208 --> 00:36:04,500 Do some of the art for people besides me, or would you do one for, 781 00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:06,000 you know, pick a name, Britney Spears? 782 00:36:06,583 --> 00:36:10,708 And I did. And I'd written a Britney Spears poem, actually, almost out of piggery. 783 00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:14,250 But nowadays, I tend to just do the things that I want to do 784 00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:15,208 and the people that I admire. 785 00:36:15,791 --> 00:36:19,333 So if I'm going to generate art, it's about artists that I either know 786 00:36:19,375 --> 00:36:23,791 really well through the music or I've visually been impressed 787 00:36:23,791 --> 00:36:25,333 by over a long period of time. 788 00:36:26,208 --> 00:36:30,041 And again, as you get old, you start to realise things, music and words 789 00:36:30,166 --> 00:36:33,833 and visuals were always as equally as important to me. 790 00:36:34,416 --> 00:36:37,125 Like I could listen to a band, but if they weren't saying something, 791 00:36:37,583 --> 00:36:38,375 I had no interest. 792 00:36:38,916 --> 00:36:39,958 And I could listen to a band. 793 00:36:39,958 --> 00:36:42,250 And if they were saying something in interest, but if I didn't like the way 794 00:36:42,250 --> 00:36:44,625 they looked, then I wasn't listening. 795 00:36:45,083 --> 00:36:48,625 So, you know, I look at and, you know, maybe that's to my detriment. 796 00:36:49,083 --> 00:36:51,750

But like, you know, when you went to like at the time when I was a kid 797 00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:54,416 and you're White Snake and all these bands, one look and I'm gone, I'm already 798 00:36:54,416 --> 00:36:55,500 like, that's not for me. 799 00:36:56,541 --> 00:36:58,416 But then you look at somebody like 800 00:36:59,041 --> 00:37:02,583 OMD, who who visually weren't that impressive, 801 00:37:03,458 --> 00:37:05,625 but they weren't deterring me. 802 00:37:06,083 --> 00:37:09,291 So I've only learned quite recently that they decided to look like office workers 803 00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:13,875 deliberately as like a kickback against all the new romantic stuff 804 00:37:13,916 --> 00:37:14,666 that was going on. 805 00:37:15,083 --> 00:37:18,208 But then I would have looked at bands like Spandau Ballet and Duran Duran 806 00:37:18,208 --> 00:37:21,916 and would love their early music work, but visually they were just incredible. 807 00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,625 Now, I didn't you know, I didn't want to go dressed up with all the frills on me, 808 00:37:25,625 --> 00:37:26,875 but I just thought this is amazing. 809 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:30,958 And then you realise that you get older, that all that's influenced by Steve 810 00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:32,375 Strager was a huge influence. 811 00:37:32,958 --> 00:37:36,875 He was hugely influenced by David Bowie and Roxy Music were influenced by Bowie. 812 00:37:36,875 --> 00:37:41,000 And then you realise that it's all just a part of paying homage to people. 813 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:41,583 You know what I mean? 814 00:37:42,166 --> 00:37:44,458 And then I'm always trying to find a balance in that 815 00:37:45,416 --> 00:37:47,666 in the sense that I don't want to be like everybody else. 816 00:37:47,958 --> 00:37:49,416 So one of my favourite quotes is 817 00:37:50,416 --> 00:37:53,166 Kirk Cobain, one where he say's, "they laugh 818 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:54,833 They laugh at me because I'm different. 819 00:37:54,833 --> 00:37:56,125 I laugh at them because they're all the same. 820 00:37:56,125 --> 00:38:00,166 No, I don't laugh at people anymore, but I understand what he's saying completely. 821 00:38:00,875 --> 00:38:02,750 And so you're trying to find the balance between. 822 00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:04,916 Yeah, you know, I love Bowie. 823 00:38:05,166 --> 00:38:07,833 I love the Beatles, but I don't want to necessarily look like them 824 00:38:08,041 --> 00:38:10,375 and sound like them because what they did was unique 825 00:38:10,458 --> 00:38:12,333 and they're encouraging you to be unique. 826 00:38:12,333 --> 00:38:16,541 You know, so one of my favourite interviews about that is Mark 827 00:38:16,541 --> 00:38:21,500 Almond from Soft Cell saying that when he started Soft Cell, he was an art student. 828 00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:24,958 I'm sure you know that they were both art students. 829 00:38:24,958 --> 00:38:28,625 And he said, you know, a huge thrust of it was just be entirely who

you are. 830 00:38:28,625 --> 00:38:29,625 And they were completely different. 831 00:38:30,125 --> 00:38:33,083 And he said six months later, I'm standing in front of thousands of people 832 00:38:33,416 --> 00:38:37,833 who look exactly like me and figure out thinking, how did this happen? 833 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,708 I'm telling them I'm telling them to be yourself and different. 834 00:38:42,333 --> 00:38:43,958 And they're all turning up dressed like me. 835 00:38:45,208 --> 00:38:46,750 What do you like? What do you do? 836 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:49,666 What do you do? 837 00:38:50,166 --> 00:38:52,750 I mean, the idea that somebody would appear in front of me 838 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,708 dressed the same as me would actually horrify me. 839 00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:59,041 No, I'm not saying I'm not, you know, 840 00:38:59,708 --> 00:39:02,083 you know, I love seeing people wearing the T-shirts and the hats. 841 00:39:02,375 --> 00:39:03,666 Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? 842 00:39:03,666 --> 00:39:06,000 There's a there's always this 843 00:39:07,083 --> 00:39:08,666 kind of balancing act going on. 844 00:39:08,666 --> 00:39:09,375 Yeah, I love that. 845 00:39:10,333 --> 00:39:13,250 I want to go and, you know, get as close to as I can. 846 00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:15,666 But there's no way I'm going to mimic it completely. 847 00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:18,166 You are such like everyone needs to be. 848 00:39:18,333 --> 00:39:20,916 So exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 849 00:39:21,041 --> 00:39:22,625 Yeah. What's that? 850 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,375 Go on. What's your favourite piece of Cork slang? 851 00:39:28,666 --> 00:39:31,666 Is that like saying like, well, how do I choose? 852 00:39:32,291 --> 00:39:34,916 Oh, my God. That's like asking me what, you know, what one song 853 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,958 I take to a desert island couldn't cope with that pressure. No. Yeah. 854 00:39:40,208 --> 00:39:41,000 And this is the thing. 855 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,916 I mean, for me, they've all got this depth to them. 856 00:39:43,916 --> 00:39:45,750 And that's the way it's so hard to pick one. 857 00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:47,500 So I will. Yeah. The fact that it means no. 858 00:39:48,250 --> 00:39:52,041 But it's said in a way that you're not sure is just, you know, 859 00:39:52,041 --> 00:39:54,541 the fact that Langer has developed as a word. 860 00:39:54,541 --> 00:39:57,458 It was like when I was a kid, a Langer, that was a major insult. 861 00:39:58,208 --> 00:40:00,250 No, it's a time of endearment. 862 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:01,333 You know what I mean? 863 00:40:01,708 --> 00:40:06,625 And then and then it's the fact that Langer becomes Langer loads and Langer Dan. 864 00:40:06,625 --> 00:40:08,708 And, you know, we used to take language under. 865 00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:10,916 I don't know if you remember that jumping on the back of a row. 866 00:40:11,166 --> 00:40:14,000 You know, it's it's this debt that goes on in a

round. 867 00:40:14,541 --> 00:40:16,541 But if I had to pick one, I'd probably say chalk. 868 00:40:17,166 --> 00:40:17,791 I love chalk it down. 869 00:40:18,166 --> 00:40:19,625 Chalk it down Boi! Chalk it down 870 00:40:20,375 --> 00:40:21,916 I love. I just love it. 871 00:40:21,916 --> 00:40:23,958 And, you know, Dout ya boy is magic as well. 872 00:40:24,708 --> 00:40:28,500 And the more I do this, the more I'm thinking about how these things 873 00:40:29,583 --> 00:40:33,041 are stitched into our into our culture and our city. 874 00:40:33,333 --> 00:40:33,791 Do you know what I mean? 875 00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:38,291 And wouldn't it be fascinating to be able to go back and look at things 876 00:40:38,291 --> 00:40:40,416 that were written in Cork language 50 877 00:40:40,416 --> 00:40:42,875 years ago and compare them to where we are now? 878 00:40:44,083 --> 00:40:48,916 And in some little way, I think I'm playing a role in it because I think, 879 00:40:48,916 --> 00:40:52,666 you know, somewhere down the road, people can pick up an old Christmas card 880 00:40:52,666 --> 00:40:54,666 that I've written or I love me a mountain card or whatever. 881 00:40:54,916 --> 00:40:56,666 And some of that language will be obsolete 882 00:40:57,875 --> 00:41:01,333 or maybe not as in use as much or may like Langer I have changed 883 00:41:01,333 --> 00:41:03,875 this definition in some shape or form. 884 00:41:05,041 --> 00:41:09,375 You know, for me, if I have any if I play any role in that, I'd be absolutely, 885 00:41:09,583 --> 00:41:10,916 absolutely chuffed. 886 00:41:11,875 --> 00:41:14,625 You know, I'm thinking about people like Frank O'Connor and Colman 887 00:41:14,625 --> 00:41:18,958 Creadon and Jerry Murphy have contributed enormously in that in that area. 888 00:41:18,958 --> 00:41:21,708 And more like if I had just a little piece of that 889 00:41:22,291 --> 00:41:24,041 and having as much fun doing it as I am. 890 00:41:24,958 --> 00:41:26,666 That would be I'd be happy with that. 891 00:41:27,416 --> 00:41:28,333 I guess I guess. 892 00:41:29,333 --> 00:41:32,500 And you've performed in like vastly different venues, 893 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:35,500 like from major festivals like Body and Souls to Cork prison. 894 00:41:36,208 --> 00:41:39,333 What performance environment has kind of surprised you the most? 895 00:41:41,166 --> 00:41:43,625 Man, I should have read these questions, shouldn't I? 896 00:41:44,666 --> 00:41:46,208 I like to put them in the spot, don't think. 897 00:41:46,208 --> 00:41:49,166 But funny enough, I prefer that I'm doing the 898 00:41:49,166 --> 00:41:51,125 thinking now rather than having thought through 899 00:41:51,125 --> 00:41:54,958 beforehand. Court prison was a serious eye 900 00:41:54,958 --> 00:42:00,250 opener. Just entering the prison. You've seen 901 00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:04,583 around the Telly. And then they were so 902 00:42:04,583 --> 00:42:06,750 interesting. Because you think they're kind of, 903 00:42:06,791 --> 00:42:09,750 it felt like being a teacher. You're doing 904 00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:12,916 this thing and they're sitting there. And 905 00:42:12,916 --> 00:42:14,916 teachers must look down the classrooms every day 906 00:42:14,916 --> 00:42:17,250 of the evening. They have absolutely no interest 907 00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:20,708 whatsoever. And yet they were taking it in. And 908 00:42:20,708 --> 00:42:23,333 it was an amazing conversation, came out of it, 909 00:42:23,333 --> 00:42:26,208 about journaling and them writing to try and 910 00:42:26,208 --> 00:42:28,125 understand what their experience is. And one guy 911 00:42:28,125 --> 00:42:30,875 was saying he writes letters, but he doesn't send 912 00:42:30,875 --> 00:42:33,083 them to anybody, he just writes them. And it's his 913 00:42:33,083 --> 00:42:35,125 way of getting it out. And then other people talk 914 00:42:35,125 --> 00:42:40,083 about their journal as part of a recovery. And it 915 00:42:40,083 --> 00:42:46,208 was just, I had no idea what I was expecting, but 916 00:42:46,208 --> 00:42:49,208 I definitely was not expecting what we got in them. 917 00:42:50,041 --> 00:42:53,666 Definitely not. And they were so welcoming. I 918 00:42:53,666 --> 00:42:56,750 mean, I'm a huge believer in people. And I watch a 919 00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:59,833 lot of things about criminal justice, 920 00:42:59,833 --> 00:43:02,250 particularly in America, just because they've got so much of 921 00:43:02,375 --> 00:43:07,333 an available. And I say to people, we have 2000 922 00:43:07,333 --> 00:43:10,541 years of evidence that the prison system doesn't 923 00:43:10,541 --> 00:43:14,208 work. Why aren't we fucking changing? And there 924 00:43:14,208 --> 00:43:17,375 is loads of evidence out there now in other parts 925 00:43:17,375 --> 00:43:20,458 of the world, and America included, where there 926 00:43:20,458 --> 00:43:22,791 is a different way to do this. And there is better 927 00:43:22,791 --> 00:43:24,666 ways of doing this. And there are ways that stop 928 00:43:24,666 --> 00:43:27,625 people reoffending. And they're cheaper than keeping 929 00:43:27,666 --> 00:43:30,375 an image. I mean, I could go on and on and 930 00:43:30,375 --> 00:43:33,208 on. Ian Wright, the footballer, has a piece of 931 00:43:33,208 --> 00:43:34,583 television that he did years ago, where he went 932 00:43:34,583 --> 00:43:39,791 into a kids and young boys, I don't know what you 933 00:43:39,791 --> 00:43:43,125 call it, a borstel or something. And he set up a 934 00:43:43,125 --> 00:43:45,541 football academy. And through the football academy, 935 00:43:45,541 --> 00:43:47,416 he developed their personalities and 936 00:43:47,416 --> 00:43:50,166 improved their confidence. And I'm telling you, 937 00:43:50,916 --> 00:43:53,291 life changing television. So then it was 938 00:43:53,291 --> 00:43:55,333 life changing. But it's life changing watching, 939 00:43:56,125 --> 00:43:57,833

because you're watching kids who you realise 940 00:43:57,833 --> 00:44:00,416 have gone down that road, because of influences 941 00:44:00,416 --> 00:44:04,208 or decisions that were influenced by, you know, the 942 00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,458 wrong people and given an opportunity, most of them 943 00:44:06,458 --> 00:44:08,541 grabbed it with two hands, most of them 944 00:44:08,541 --> 00:44:11,708 grabbed it with two hands. And what I tell you now, 945 00:44:12,875 --> 00:44:15,041 one of the things I will never forget this, he had 946 00:44:15,041 --> 00:44:19,291 them. He arranged a game, a five or side game for 947 00:44:19,291 --> 00:44:23,125 his panel against the five or side blind football 948 00:44:23,125 --> 00:44:25,708 team that represented me. I'd never heard a blind 949 00:44:25,791 --> 00:44:28,375 football. The way blind football works is the 950 00:44:28,375 --> 00:44:30,375 outfield players are blind and the goalkeeper 951 00:44:30,458 --> 00:44:32,625 can see and they've got these like little 952 00:44:32,625 --> 00:44:35,041 marbles in the balls, what makes noises, right. So he 953 00:44:35,041 --> 00:44:39,041 blindfolded his team to play the interviews with 954 00:44:39,041 --> 00:44:42,291 them afterwards, you could literally see the pennies 955 00:44:42,291 --> 00:44:45,125 dropping in there, this little kid, 17 years 956 00:44:45,125 --> 00:44:46,833 of age, who had been in trouble since he was 12, 957 00:44:47,416 --> 00:44:50,166 came to the camera and he said, I am never 958 00:44:50,166 --> 00:44:53,083 complaining about anything again in my life. 959 00:44:53,666 --> 00:44:56,000 It doesn't matter what my dad did, what my mum 960 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,541 didn't do. He said they have, like the most of 961 00:44:58,541 --> 00:45:00,041 my veterans, he said they've been to war, 962 00:45:00,416 --> 00:45:04,166 they've been blinded and looking and he's like, you can 963 00:45:04,166 --> 00:45:06,541 see him thinking, what am I doing with my life? 964 00:45:07,125 --> 00:45:09,666 It's all like all these things I'm telling myself 965 00:45:09,958 --> 00:45:12,750 are the reasons that I'm in prison. It's all 966 00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:16,041 nonsense. And that's like, that's for me is the 967 00:45:16,041 --> 00:45:17,541 trick you have to make people think 968 00:45:17,541 --> 00:45:20,250 differently. Like I taught the live centre for number years 969 00:45:20,291 --> 00:45:21,916 and that's the battle. The battle is make them 970 00:45:21,916 --> 00:45:24,208 think differently and it's predominantly make 971 00:45:24,208 --> 00:45:28,125 them think differently about themselves. I was 972 00:45:28,125 --> 00:45:30,916 that kid who was 16, 17, was completely lost because 973 00:45:31,791 --> 00:45:35,500 there was people who believed me but I couldn't hear it. Do you know what I mean? 974 00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:39,416 Yeah, so I mean all that feeds into what I do as 975 00:45:39,416 --> 00:45:43,083 well, all that passion and anger and frustration 976 00:45:43,666 --> 00:45:47,583 and belief. Looking at everything you do like 977 00:45:47,583 --> 00:45:49,541 from your pop-up shops and your visual arts, 978 00:45:49,583 --> 00:45:51,875 your poetry and fiction. What exciting 979 00:45:51,875 --> 00:45:54,333 project is next? You mentioned about a little secret 980 00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:56,750 events that you can't talk about but is 981 00:45:56,750 --> 00:45:58,291 there anything else you can talk to us about? 982 00:45:58,708 --> 00:46:00,958 Yeah, so I mean look, they're really exciting and 983 00:46:00,958 --> 00:46:02,833 I have to say that I'm really excited about where 984 00:46:02,833 --> 00:46:05,250 the business is going. I have a vision in my head 985 00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:08,708 of it being a, what I call a proper business with 986 00:46:08,708 --> 00:46:10,833 a premise and I see the premise as having 987 00:46:10,833 --> 00:46:13,291 everything I do in it. I see a premise with a section for the 988 00:46:13,291 --> 00:46:16,041 Cork stuff, a section for the art that I do, a 989 00:46:16,041 --> 00:46:18,541 section for the poetry, I do all those things. 990 00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:26,583 And I think, you know, like the amount of work I 991 00:46:26,583 --> 00:46:28,625 do myself in the development has really allowed me 992 00:46:28,625 --> 00:46:31,708 to go into business and to really start 993 00:46:31,708 --> 00:46:34,416 exploring those creative things and now it's kind of gone 994 00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:38,916 slightly full circle in the sense that all the 995 00:46:38,916 --> 00:46:41,458 creative stuff is feeding where I want to go with 996 00:46:41,458 --> 00:46:44,916 the business. So, you know, I've plans to get 997 00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:47,458 my music out into the world much more, you know, 998 00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:50,458 I might do an exhibition, another exhibition 999 00:46:50,458 --> 00:46:53,958 I've done one before. You know, I launched a, I 1000 00:46:54,041 --> 00:46:57,958 produced a poetry book four years ago and I did 1001 00:46:57,958 --> 00:46:59,916 a GoFundMe at the same, mine's been joined the 1002 00:46:59,916 --> 00:47:02,875 pandemic actually and the GoFundMe was about, you 1003 00:47:02,875 --> 00:47:04,708 know, the rewards, one of the rewards was a copy 1004 00:47:04,708 --> 00:47:07,250 of the album when it was completed and it hasn't 1005 00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:09,625 been completed but I'm going to get that done this 1006 00:47:09,625 --> 00:47:12,000 year and I fact pretty soon and I'm going to be 1007 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,125 wrote on vinyl. That's really exciting because 1008 00:47:15,166 --> 00:47:17,708 it's music. Like I have an album now by a girl 1009 00:47:17,708 --> 00:47:20,958 called Megan Ali McGuire, she's a global musician, 1010 00:47:21,208 --> 00:47:24,083 I think she's amazing and I keep this as short as 1011 00:47:24,083 --> 00:47:26,166 I can. I'm on one of the tracks and

she asked me to 1012 00:47:26,166 --> 00:47:28,833 do the spoken word piece on it and I tell you 1013 00:47:28,833 --> 00:47:31,625 know when I got the copy of that record and I saw my 1014 00:47:31,625 --> 00:47:34,500 name on the sleeve in tiny little writings, you 1015 00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:38,166 know what I mean? What a buzz. So it's just, you 1016 00:47:38,166 --> 00:47:40,541 know, it's all those things that when you were 1017 00:47:40,541 --> 00:47:42,916 growing up you're looking at and, you know, to 1018 00:47:42,958 --> 00:47:44,791 have the poetry collection out was amazing. I 1019 00:47:44,791 --> 00:47:46,875 had a kids book that I really want to get back to 1020 00:47:47,708 --> 00:47:52,875 10 years, like and I'm not exaggerating, 10 years at it, maybe long enough, Jesus. 1021 00:47:54,541 --> 00:47:58,166 It's a novel, like it's a huge, it's a whole 1022 00:47:58,166 --> 00:48:01,541 world and I've gone at it in whole loads of different 1023 00:48:01,541 --> 00:48:04,041 ways, you know, trying to create as an online 1024 00:48:04,041 --> 00:48:06,125 game. All these were just distractions, I don't know. 1025 00:48:06,625 --> 00:48:08,333 So I'd love to get back to that and I'd love 1026 00:48:08,333 --> 00:48:10,666 to get that out there and I want to perform more 1027 00:48:10,750 --> 00:48:13,125 this year. I spoke to Owen Jordan yesterday, 1028 00:48:13,125 --> 00:48:15,333 the day before about going, trying to get together 1029 00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:16,833 this week and having a chat, going out and 1030 00:48:16,833 --> 00:48:17,875 doing some more shows. 1031 00:48:17,875 --> 00:48:19,500 We're going to chalk them all down 1032 00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:22,458 We're going to keep an eye out for it 1033 00:48:22,458 --> 00:48:23,833 Well, you know, I wouldn't want to be getting 1034 00:48:23,833 --> 00:48:27,291 notions, now like. I mean, the next thing you 1035 00:48:27,291 --> 00:48:29,250 know, I'd be getting oceans about going to live in 1036 00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:31,875 Douglas. The smell of no oceans in Douglas is 1037 00:48:31,875 --> 00:48:34,875 is unreal boy. People think it's the smell of the ocean, 1038 00:48:34,875 --> 00:48:36,583 but it's not the smell of notions. You go 1039 00:48:36,583 --> 00:48:38,416 down Rochestown road,, oh my god, you knocked out 1040 00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:45,625 the smell of notions is only pure, pure, lethal down boy. Brutal it is! 1041 00:48:46,666 --> 00:48:48,708 Now, I've got to ask you for a bit of advice 1042 00:48:48,708 --> 00:48:50,875 now, like drawing from your own experience, 1043 00:48:51,166 --> 00:48:54,041 which is a wealth of experience to be fair. What 1044 00:48:54,041 --> 00:48:56,666 advice did you give to a young creative looking 1045 00:48:56,666 --> 00:49:00,833 to find their own authentic voice in Cork? Well, 1046 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,458 I'd say two things to them, right? One is I'd say, 1047 00:49:03,458 --> 00:49:05,708 just do what you want to do, right? That's the 1048 00:49:05,708 --> 00:49:08,250 first thing. Don't worry about what anybody else 1049 00:49:08,291 --> 00:49:10,958 is thinking in regards to, oh, you know, 1050 00:49:11,125 --> 00:49:13,083 maybe he's decided he's going to, I don't know. 1051 00:49:14,875 --> 00:49:16,541 I'm trying to think of something, or maybe 1052 00:49:16,541 --> 00:49:18,666 he's going to produce a hip hop album with only a 1053 00:49:18,666 --> 00:49:20,708 heart player behind him. I don't know. I say 1054 00:49:20,708 --> 00:49:23,375 that now because Hazel O'Connor was on tour a couple 1055 00:49:23,375 --> 00:49:25,750 of years ago with just a harp player. Whatever it 1056 00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:28,250 is you want to do, then, you know, just go and do it. 1057 00:49:28,583 --> 00:49:31,291 And if you want some help to go and do it, 1058 00:49:31,458 --> 00:49:35,000 to stay on that path, read The Artist's Way. 1059 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:42,000 A life-changing book. If you commit to it, it is literally a life-changing book. 1060 00:49:43,625 --> 00:49:45,416 You know, your art is your art, and your art 1061 00:49:45,416 --> 00:49:47,291 is part of you, and your art will help you stay. 1062 00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:49,500 Well, if you're not doing it, you will be 1063 00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:52,000 really unwell. And if you're not doing it in a way that 1064 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,250 you want to do it, you're still going to be unwell.. 1065 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,416 Do you know what I mean? There's no, I mean, look, 1066 00:49:57,416 --> 00:49:58,666 you know, you have to make, you want to try and 1067 00:49:58,666 --> 00:50:00,875 make a living out of it, and you can make a living 1068 00:50:00,875 --> 00:50:02,541 in lots of different ways, and you can certainly 1069 00:50:02,541 --> 00:50:04,416 make a living by reproducing the same thing over 1070 00:50:04,458 --> 00:50:08,000 and over again. That's without doubt is a 1071 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,500 recipe for success, but for lots of people. But for most 1072 00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:16,166 creative people, you need to be moving. So you 1073 00:50:16,166 --> 00:50:19,041 just need to do what you need to do. And whatever that 1074 00:50:19,041 --> 00:50:21,041 is, there's somebody out there that will help you 1075 00:50:21,041 --> 00:50:24,666 with it without doubt. Without absolute doubt. So what 1076 00:50:24,666 --> 00:50:27,000 I'm telling them is, you know, what I didn't 1077 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,333 believe myself when I was that age, just believe in 1078 00:50:30,458 --> 00:50:33,000 yourself and just do it. And if you really, 1079 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,791 really want to do it, then you will do it. There's no 1080 00:50:35,791 --> 00:50:40,333 doubt about it. And don't get notions. Well, 1081 00:50:40,708 --> 00:50:42,625 yeah, when you wouldn't want to end up now like me, 1082 00:50:42,625 --> 00:50:44,083 you know what I mean? Sitting in front of a 1083 00:50:44,083 --> 00:50:49,000 camera talking shite, as if you knew for a split second 1084 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,958 what you were doing with your life. Like, I 1085 00:50:50,958 --> 00:50:53,625 mean, come on now boy. I barely passed me leaving cert. 1086 00:50:53,625 --> 00:50:55,375 like, I never saw it inside of a college. Well, 1087 00:50:55,375 --> 00:50:57,000 I did, but I dropped out like, do you know what I mean? 1088 00:50:57,666 --> 00:51:00,416 You know, I'm like, I'm from Togher boy. 1089 00:51:00,833 --> 00:51:02,916 Togher. Jeez, if I went over there only round the corner 1090 00:51:02,916 --> 00:51:04,833 now, I'm only five minutes away 1091 00:51:04,833 --> 00:51:06,083 If I went over there now to Togher 1092 00:51:06,083 --> 00:51:07,083 I'd beat the head of me 1093 00:51:07,083 --> 00:51:08,625 Poetry, they'd be saying 1094 00:51:08,916 --> 00:51:10,791 I beat you good looking, boy. If I had three 1095 00:51:10,791 --> 00:51:11,708 weeks to spare. 1096 00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:18,708 It's not good for me Stan. Oh, I had to go back to work after this. 1097 00:51:20,166 --> 00:51:21,791 Laughter's always good for you, Geraldine. 1098 00:51:21,791 --> 00:51:25,208 I'm telling ya. That's it. Thanks so much, Stan, 1099 00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:27,916 for chatting to me and making me laugh on the 1100 00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:30,000 Cork Creative podcast. If you want to find more 1101 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,250 about Stan in his work, you can find links to 1102 00:51:32,250 --> 00:51:34,041 his various socials and website at 1103 00:51:34,041 --> 00:51:35,208 corkcreative.ie. 1104 00:51:35,958 --> 00:51:37,958 Thank you so much. Really, really enjoyed it.