บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Andra Douglas

ESPN. 00:03:11 Speaker 1: Well, how big is the league? How many teams? 00:03:15 Speaker 2: Well, there's actually two leagues. And combined, it's, gosh, probably close to 70 teams. And it's just, it's a huge underground movement, even though no one knows about it. It's pretty big, you know. 00:03:30 Speaker 1: And is it professional? Do the girls get paid? 00:03:33 Speaker 2: No, no, that's a bad part about it. In fact, we all put money in. We equate it to joining a sports club. You know, you put money in and then it's, you get out of it what you put into it. 00:03:47 Speaker 1: So it's kind of- With all the equipment, it surely would be expensive. 00:03:53 Speaker 2: Very expensive. 00:03:55 Speaker 1: It is. 00:03:56 Speaker 2: And I, as an owner, along with the other owners, we put in what we can, but it's hard to field 40 women and travel a lot of plane flights. Even the buses are extremely expensive. Even a home game, it's a lot. It's a lot. 00:04:12 Speaker 1: Where do you play? On which fields do you play? 00:04:15 Speaker 2: We used to play, our home field was Aviator Sports Complex out in Brooklyn. That was our home field. 00:04:22 Speaker 1: Can we go back to the start? You've got so many facets to your life. I mean, I've seen some of your art. It really is amazing, the art, particularly your Black and Blue series. You've been an executive in Time Warner. But the thing that really intrigued me was your induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Can you explain that? I mean, how many women are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame? 00:04:48 Speaker 2: Not many. Not many. Well, let's see. There's probably, I'm going to guess, seven or eight women who are in it. Not all players. There's a ref. There's actually, I think, two referees, women referees. And then there's some other players, one from the Boston team, one from the Cleveland team. So there are a couple of other players, but I'm very... flattered and fortunate that they display my helmet pants and jersey as well as my all-star jersey in in the same case um as the other so i'm i'm really. 00:05:29 Speaker 1: Happy what sort of ceremony is conducted when you're in when you are inducted is there. 00:05:35 Speaker 2: Like a dinner there's not one for the women don't you know uh no and we have um approached them several times and they are um, trying to expand. Well, they will expand the women's section right now. It's, it's a, it's a little spot. Uh, we have a big case and then one wall and it's really wonderful, but I know they're trying to make it bigger. And, uh, eventually they will have, uh, an induction ceremony. I, I, it'll be probably similar to the men's, but on a much scaled back level. 00:06:12 Speaker 1: Interesting. I'm comparing it all the time with our Australian game, because Australian football is big, particularly in the southern states and the western states here in Australia. And our Australian Football Hall of Fame was all men, obviously. But just recently, since the

Women's League started, maybe 10 years ago, there's been three women inducted into that. And they share the same privileges as the guys do, the same dinner, the same presentation. So You should suggest that those people at Canton and Ohio have a look at what we're doing in Australia. 00:06:47 Speaker 2: I will. I will put that right up their nose and see what happens. 00:06:50 Speaker 1: Well, you should. We were talking off air about Erin Phillips, one of our stars here, who went off to play basketball in America and came back and was a legend here in Australian football towards the end. So she has been inducted after only three or four years, maybe five years of playing because of the pioneering side of it, I guess. But look, can we go back to your beginnings? Tell us about Zephyr Hills. Is that the place you grew up in Florida? 00:07:20 Speaker 2: Yes, yes. A tiny little, well, it's not so tiny now, but when I grew up, there was, I don't know, four or 5,000 people. Everybody knew everybody. It's very different today, but I just had this idyllic childhood growing up there. And I have two older sisters and my mom and dad. And we just had a really wonderful life there. Same high school. You know, you go to the same kindergarten, the same, you know, junior high and high school. And so it was just kind of fun where everyone knows everyone. And it was a nice way to. 00:07:58 Speaker 1: When you say idyllic, what was the countryside like? 00:08:03 Speaker 2: Well, it was beautiful. It was rural Florida, central Florida. And, you know, most people think of Florida as palm trees and beaches. That's right. 00:08:13 Speaker 1: Everglades. 00:08:16 Speaker 2: Everglades. 00:08:17 Speaker 1: Exactly. 00:08:18 Speaker 2: Florida has so many cattle ranches. We were Florida was third behind, I think, is Texas and Montana in cattle ranching. Also cattle ranching. began in Florida when the Spaniards brought over these little tiny, the cutest little cows. You don't find them much anymore, but they're cute little cows. And that's where cattle ranching began in Florida, and it's still pretty big there. 00:08:42 Speaker 1: So your dad was a farmer or a rancher? 00:08:45 Speaker 2: Rancher. 00:08:46 Speaker 1: A rancher. Yes. And you're one of three girls? Yes. Well, how did you spread from this little town in Zephyr Hills to this big wide world in which you now inhabit? 00:08:59 Speaker 2: Well, once I realized that I couldn't play quarterback for the Miami Dolphins, it was a huge shock and a horrible disappointment. But I went to my second passion, which is art. And so I ended up getting my, I did my undergraduate at Florida State. And then I went to grad school here in New York City. And I just, I never went home. I fell in love with the city, still in love with the city. I go home a lot, though. I love going home. So It's a great dual life. 00:09:32 Speaker 1: My guest on Conversations is Andrew Douglas. Andrew is a– well, she used to own a football team in America. She played over there, but she's done all sorts of other interesting things. She's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and her book is called Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football, and the Art of Transition. Back after the break, folks. My guest on Conversations today is a New Yorker. who was born in Florida. Her name is Andrea Douglas, and she's had an amazing... always having an amazing life. There's a transition and she's written about the transition from being an elite sports person and someone who owns a sporting team and someone who's worked in media and high-powered position. Her book is called Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football and the Art of Transition. But I'm really more interested in Florida at this stage, Kevin. So, Does it not strike you as astounding that you can move so comfortably from country Florida to New York? What was the transition like when you were young? 00:10:31 Speaker 2: Well, you know, when I first got here, I had never been to New York City. And, you know, coming off of these, I went to Florida State University. Tallahassee is a much larger city. Nonetheless, it was only, you know, four years there. And so when I moved to New York, I was too naive to know any different. You know, it's like I didn't realize any of the dangers or and I didn't submit myself or put myself in dangerous places. But yeah, several people told me I remember the super in my building. I have blonde hair and blue eyes. And he said, do not. go over in the letter streets, do not with your blonde hair and blue eyes. I was like, okay. You know, I just, and I grew up with, with shooting guns. We hunted, we did this and that. So, you know, guns, probably if I'd seen a robbery, I would have said, Hey, what is that? A Beretta? Let's let me see that thing. 00:11:32 Speaker 1: But where did the art come from? Is there, is there artistic talent in your family? 00:11:37 Speaker 2: My great-grandmother actually was an artist. We still have several of her paintings, which are just beautiful. So I think that's where a lot of it came from, yeah. 00:11:47 Speaker 1: So growing up in Florida, you're bowing for the Dolphins, wanting to play for the Dolphins. They had a pretty good year. Was it 84? 00:11:57 Speaker 2: Well, 84 was pretty good too. That's when they had Dan Marino. But the years that I love were the early 70s with Bob Greasy– And to this day, they are the only team in the NFL that's ever gone undefeated through the whole season, winning the Super Bowl as well. So they still hold that record, which I'm so proud of. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: Anyway, you land in New York. What are your ambitions when you get to New York? 00:12:21 Speaker 2: Well, I was in grad school at Pratt Institute. So I wanted to get my degree in commercial design, which I did, got my master's. And, you know, it's not easy to make friends in new york you know people are very busy they're they're there for a purpose so they're not you know hanging out socializing and this and

that but um i did make some friends one of them was from singapore and she and i hung out uh you know all through school and like i said i just fell in love with the city i i love the there's just there's always something to do you don't have to have money um you know but there's always something wonderful to do in new york. 00:13:04 Speaker 1: City You better explain that. You don't have to have money. It seems to me that that's a really expensive city. 00:13:10 Speaker 2: It's very expensive. But, well, actually, when I moved here in the 80s, it was not as expensive as it is now. It's becoming so gentrified. It's hard to find a place in Manhattan that's affordable. But what I meant, though, was, you know, they have so many programs that are free. And there's, oh, I decided I was going to learn how to dance dance. months ago. And so, you know, I just Googled, where do I learn to dance? Well, it turns out right down on the pier here, I live by the Hudson River, they have dance classes in the evening, and they're free, you just show up. And there's things like that everywhere, whether it's dance or art or sculpture or reading poetry, it's everything's here in New York, everything. 00:14:00 Speaker 1: How do you decide which career to follow though? Because you're, you're primarily an artist, but you become a vice president at Atlantic records and time warning. How did that diverge? 00:14:12 Speaker 2: Well, you know, everyone said that there, you know, there's no money being a, an artist as in painting oils and, you know, a fine artist. Um, so I shifted towards, um, commercial art and that's how I ended up at Atlantic records. My division, um, I actually grew my division to about a staff of 30, I think there was. And we did a lot of VHS packaging because VHS was very popular back then. We did work with bands as well, doing CD packaging. We did some movies. So we would do one sheets and posters for movies, all the packaging. It was really the best job that I ever had, really. 00:14:57 Speaker 1: Was it hands-on with the artists, the performers? 00:15:00 Speaker 2: Sometimes, yes. Yeah, I would schedule all the photo shoots and, you know, do the direction. And sometimes, yeah, it was fun when that happened. Sometimes we would just get a bunch of slides and say, okay, create something from this. They've all been approved by the band. But a lot of times we'd have to do the photo shoot, which was really fun. 00:15:19 Speaker 1: Who was your favorite? 00:15:22 Speaker 2: The person that stands out the most to me because I didn't expect her to be so nice was Jane Fonda. Really? We did all of her... Remember the Jane Fonda workout videos? 00:15:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember them. Jane Fonda, unfortunately, as much as I like her, she did get a lot of criticism from Vietnam veterans because of her stance during the Vietnam War. So you probably may not be aware of that. She went to Hanoi in the midst of the Vietnam War and... a lot of veterans still remember that, but it's really interesting to hear you say how nice she was. 00:15:57 Speaker 2: She was just lovely, very professional. And I remember the first shoot I did with her, she was 50 and I was in my thirties. And I remember she, her limousine drove into the back alley so she could come in the back door and I had never met her before. So I'm in the front waiting for her and she comes in the door and comes across the stage there where we were going to shoot. And I thought, oh my God, this woman looks better at 50 than I do in my 30s. And she's just a beautiful, beautiful woman. But she was so professional, kind, considerate. I just really enjoyed her. And I did several shoots with her and she was the same every time. Very, very nice. 00:16:39 Speaker 1: It's really nice to hear that, isn't it? You have this image of people who you don't know and you form an opinion without really knowing them. So when did football... Because you assume such an important part of your life that you felt you should buy the team. 00:16:54 Speaker 2: Well, of course, I love to tackle football. And that's what I played when I was young because I was out with the boys. But what I found at Florida State University and also when I moved to New York was that flag football for women was pretty popular. So I came across this flag league and joined and played for years until... In 1999, these guys out in Minnesota decided they were going to start a women's tackle league. And they had heard about our flag team. So they contacted us and said, hey, if you want to do this, get a team together and we will take our Minnesota team and challenge you. And so they, you know, we got, we all got together and thought, oh my God, yes, we're going to do this. And they sent us pads, helmets, the whole thing. And they drove from Minnesota to New York City on a cold day in December 1999. And we ended up beating them, which was pretty amazing. And then the next year, they formed the league. And there were 11 franchises for sale. And the New York Sharks were one of them. But in order to be in the league, you had to have an owner. And I didn't want to be an owner. I just wanted to play football. And it came down to the nth hour and no one had purchased the New York Shark. So I dipped into my savings and said, here, let's go. 00:18:24 Speaker 1: How much did it cost? 00:18:28 Speaker 2: $ 20, 000. $ 20, 000. 00:18:29 Speaker 1: Yeah. That's not chicken feed, is it? 00:18:33 Speaker 2: It's not. I mean, for me back then, it was a lot. But I saw my dream slipping away once again. And I thought, oh, no. Oh, no, not this time. So I got it. I played for five years, and then I owned them for 20. So it was a fine investment. 00:18:50 Speaker 1: The guys who played since they were kids at primary school, basically, getting used to the pads, how hard was that? Pads and helmet, how uncomfortable was that? 00:19:02 Speaker 2: It was not uncomfortable, but it took something to get used to. The main

thing I remember is... you'd have on the shoulder pads and the helmet. And usually like when I played flag, you just turn your head to look, but in tackle, you had to lift your head up and then turn your head sideways. And it took a while for little things like that. It did take a while. 00:19:25 Speaker 1: My guest in conversations today is Andrew Douglas, um, living in New York. And we're speaking to her from New York, done all sorts of interesting things. Um, Her book is called Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football and the Art of Transition, basically about how life changes when you probably can't play anymore. So an interesting sort of a autobiography and we'll talk about that after the break back shortly you're welcome back to conversations folks if you just tuned in it's a really interesting chat with andrea douglas andrea is living in new york and she's done all sorts of incredible things she's walked for time warner she's owned a a women's tackle football team she's played women's tackle football for five odd years She's been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which is an enormous honour. I mean, you'd probably have to live in America to really appreciate that. But life changes a little bit, and she's written about that. The book's called Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football and the Art of Transition. So you've retired, you concentrate on being the owner, you have great success as an owner, you win two championships... Is it a full-time position? I mean, does it occupy your, or did it occupy most of your waking hours? 00:20:39 Speaker 2: Well, yes, it probably shouldn't have, but yes, it did. You know, I was fortunate because I was able to work as a freelancer so that I didn't have a nine to five. And I put a lot, a lot of those hours into the team. And a lot of the people who own the teams did not have that privilege. So, you know, I consider myself lucky. But yeah, it was far more work than I ever imagined. 00:21:10 Speaker 1: So were you self-funded? Were you able to make a living from your art or from your profession? Or how were you able to fund the football league or the football team? 00:21:21 Speaker 2: Well, it was from my art. not from the football team. That's, that's a money pit. Kind of like owning a boat, you know, all you do is put money into it. And so I did that, but I made my money from, from my commercial art. So, and then when I went freelance, I was able to earn a living doing that and still maintaining the football team and putting a lot of time into it. 00:21:45 Speaker 1: And do you do well from your, your The normal art? You talk about commercial art. I guess that's what you do. 00:21:51 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm talking about commercial art. Yeah, I have sold paintings, but that wasn't my focus at the time. So I was making money from my commercial art. 00:22:02 Speaker 1: Your paintings are amazing. I go to the website, Andrew Douglas Art, and you see there's a couple of series that you've done. They really

are, as much as I know about art, I mean, I'm not a connoisseur at all, but what sort of success do you have selling them? 00:22:19 Speaker 2: Well, I still don't focus entirely on my art because I wrote the two books and, you know, just other odds and ends that I do. So I don't focus full time on it still to this day. But it's something that I really enjoy. I've been in several large shows, Art Miami, which is huge. I've been in also several. I've done my own private shows in New York and Florida and out west. So, you know, I've been fortunate enough to have some shows, but I don't earn a living like that. 00:22:56 Speaker 1: Now, let's talk a little bit more specifically about the book, Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football, and the Art of Transition. Now, it seems to me it's a merging of your life as it develops in New York and you transition from playing and you then reconnect with– your mother and her friends back in Florida. I mean, is that a simplistic way of describing it? 00:23:20 Speaker 2: Well, kind of, I mean, my mom, we've always been very, very cool. My mom passed in 2018 and my dad, I was very close with too. But, um, what happened during this in 2018, I announced before the season started that this was the last year for the New York sharks, you know, so win or lose, I I'm, I'm done. So I, So many things happened for the Sharks. A lot of people came back just to celebrate and be a part of the last year. And we had a great coaching staff. You know, it was Walt Disney couldn't have made up the Shark story. Well, meanwhile, down in rural Florida, where I come from, my mom had decided to move into assisted living. And because it's such this tiny little town, we all knew each other. Like I said, a lot of the people that mom knew from the town move into the assisted living at the same time. So it's like seventh grade all over again. And when they hear that I'm selling the team, which they had followed along the way, they said, well, we're really going to follow this year. So they decided that they were going to watch on streaming devices and, you know, just follow as best they can. So what happened was, uh, through the streaming devices and then also, uh, we would place, I would place FaceTime calls and the people in Florida and the team could see each other and these unlikely friendships that formed through these chats and watching the game and them being, you know, so bored that was like, Oh, thank God there's a game today, you know? Um, It was just, it's a sweet story. And transitions, we go through transitions at any age, any age, you know, kindergarten to first grade, there's a transition. So it was kind of a mirror of, I was aging out of, well, my athleticism, I'd aged out of quite a time ago, but there was, you know, I was giving up the team and mom was giving up her freedom, so to speak. So it was just kind of a transition that we both went through. And like I said, Disney couldn't make this up. 00:25:39 Speaker 1: How hard was

it for your mom to move from the farm into assisted living, though? 00:25:44 Speaker 2: Well, it was her choice. She was perfectly capable of living alone. She had a friend for over 70 years. Her name was Raybell. And my mom's name was Christine. The person in the book was named after my mom. So Christine and Ray Bell lived next to each other for over 70 years. They moved from one house to the next, and then the other would follow. Then mom moved into assisted living. Ray Bell moved in next door. So these stories are just so poignant and wonderful. Yeah, it's just, and then the Sharks ended up, spoiler alert, they ended up winning the title, and then went on to Europe to win the first ever international tournament. 00:26:31 Speaker 1: Really? 00:26:32 Speaker 2: We went out with a bang. 00:26:34 Speaker 1: Who plays in Europe? 00:26:36 Speaker 2: Oh, you'd be amazed how many teams there are over there. We played, I believe it was England, Finland, and Germany were in the first tournament ever. But there's teams all over in Europe. It's crazy. 00:26:50 Speaker 1: It sort of reminds me of that movie about a league of their own, the women's baseball players. Yeah. Was there elements of that? 00:27:00 Speaker 2: Well, yes, yes. 00:27:03 Speaker 1: In terms of resistance, I guess. 00:27:06 Speaker 2: Oh, well, definitely in terms of resistance. It was like beating our head on brick walls trying to get good coaches, good fields. We always got the scraps. So that was difficult and very irritating. 00:27:22 Speaker 1: Tell me about the coaches and the background of the history of the coaches and all that. What sort of money would they earn? 00:27:30 Speaker 2: Oh, nominal. I mean, like probably didn't even cover their gas to and from practices all the time. So no one was making money. This was all love of the game, every single. 00:27:40 Speaker 1: One of us. 00:27:42 Speaker 2: But the coaches, so many of them didn't take us seriously. 00:27:45 Speaker 1: If he doesn't take you seriously, you sack him. 00:27:49 Speaker 2: Well, then we don't have anyone. 00:27:50 Speaker 1: Oh. 00:27:52 Speaker 2: We took coaches that really weren't qualified, weren't nice people, didn't have the demeanor. We just took what we could get. 00:28:05 Speaker 1: Were there female coaches? Not at the time. Are there now? 00:28:10 Speaker 2: There are now, yes. We have female coaches in the NFL at this point. But back then, tackle football for women was just starting. So we were just learning ourselves, really. to truly play the 11-on-11 tackle football game. 00:28:25 Speaker 1: So can you just set the picture scene for me? So you've got this new coach who comes in as a dyed-in-the-wool male chauvinist who's going to teach the girls how to play football. What sort of reception did he get and what sort of reaction was there to those methods? 00:28:43 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of them, I remember came in and the way they taught, and maybe they still teach the men, the male coaches, they're, you know, they're just ugly to the, to the boys, you know, you stupid son of a, you know, you can't do anything. And they came in, one guy came in and he began yelling at the women. Now these are grown women. These aren't high school kids. And they were, some of them were very offended and, Some of them shot back at him, you know, same length, worse. And it's just, it's hard to find someone who could manage all that. And then I remember one time he grabbed one of them by the face mask and started around the field and yelling her, I mean, not on the ground, but, you know, just pulling her along and yelling at her, you need to stand here. And I finally, went over and said, no, that's not going to happen here. But it wasn't easy. I'll put it that way. 00:29:48 Speaker 1: We might explore that after the break a little bit more. It's sort of amusing. It probably wasn't funny at the time, but it's sort of amusing to reflect on it. Andrew Douglas is my guest, and her book is called Changing Cadence, Friendship, Football and the Art of Transition, transitioning from playing sport into not being able to play sport, I guess, back shortly. Thanks for joining us on Conversations today. It's a great chat. We're speaking to Andrew Douglas, who lives in New York. She used to own the New York Sharks, which is a women's tackle football team. You can draw the comparison between our AFLW here and the AFL where You know, they start from a low base with no real promotion and a little input and a lot of criticism. But I was intrigued when you started, Andrew, talking about how you employ coaches, old school male coaches who yell and scream. But surely it's transitioned from that now. 00:30:46 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:30:47 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:30:47 Speaker 2: And in the last, I'd want to say 10 years of our existence, we had the most wonderful coach. And what a difference, you know, what a difference. And I think a lot of teams now have, speaking of transitions, they've transitioned from, you know, real chauvinistic jerks into people who enjoy coaching the women. 00:31:09 Speaker 1: Sounds like you're talking about a lot of the people I know. Yeah. 00:31:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. there's a lot of them out there well old. 00:31:17 Speaker 1: School football coaches were chauvinistic jerks to be quite frank but but we love them nevertheless we love them you have several philanthropic pursuits can you explain them for us. 00:31:30 Speaker 2: Please um yes i started one a foundation 501c3 foundation um called the fins up foundation and a few years ago we um we changed the name to Women's Gridiron Foundation, which you can find, womensgridironfoundation.org. And what it does, it helps, let's just say you came to New York and wanted to start a team. We would help you do that in terms of the procedures. We support tournaments. We'll show up and help any of the women that have any questions or It's basically teaching life skills along with the game of football. We put on

camps where we teach girls and women how to play tackle football. And we're also getting into the flag. Flag is getting huge over here. 00:32:26 Speaker 1: Flag football, that's where they just grab the ribbon out of the shorts instead of tackling. Do they wear helmets for that? 00:32:35 Speaker 2: No, they do wear mouthguards, but not helmets, no. 00:32:38 Speaker 1: Have you been able to get women's tackle football into the colleges? 00:32:44 Speaker 2: No, but flag has just been brought into the NCAA, National Collegiate Athletic Association, has just brought in women's flag, and they're going to have a national title very soon. As well, the Olympics in 2028 will have flag football for men and women in it. So flag is on fire. 00:33:07 Speaker 1: Tell us a bit more about New York and where you live, and you've got a passion for parrots, and parrots appear in the book. 00:33:16 Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes, and I have one sitting next to me right now. She's a three-and-a-half-year-old Cape parrot. Her name is Joy. Yes, parrots are fascinating to me. 00:33:27 Speaker 1: Why are they fascinating to you? 00:33:30 Speaker 2: Can talk it never gets old and this one talks her head off she's the funniest thing ever so uh plus they're just so beautiful and they're just comical i i love the animals i love all animals but birds are just my. 00:33:49 Speaker 1: My parents are one of the most intelligent of birds and i've interviewed a gentleman who wrote about the iq of birds and how intelligent they are and parrots right up there with crows and the like. 00:34:02 Speaker 2: Corvids are genius. Yeah, they are. 00:34:04 Speaker 1: You spend a bit of time in the book, at the end of the book, in remembering some of your parrots. 00:34:11 Speaker 2: Well, during that time period, I had a Senegal parrot whose name was Pi. And Pi lived to be 28 years old. And the bird spent half my life with me. So, yes, Pi, she passed away in 2020. But she was there to see the end of the sharks, the beginning and the end of the sharks. And she was just a very special, special little bird. 00:34:37 Speaker 1: So the transition that you describe in the book, has it been hard for you? 00:34:45 Speaker 2: Yes and no, Graham. You know, as you, I don't know, as you get older, I think, I remember telling my mom when I was younger, maybe college age, you know, I will never stop running or playing football or shooting basket. I will never stop. And she goes, oh, you'll probably, you know, things will change. I'm like, absolutely not. They're never going to change. They changed. 00:35:08 Speaker 1: I know exactly what that feels like. I used to watch this guy every day run past and he was in his 90s. And I thought, well, you know, I'll never stop running. But eventually the knees and the ankles probably give up. 00:35:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the desire too. I just, I don't know, things just change. 00:35:31 Speaker 1: I still have the desire. I'm still so envious when I see people running. I

still wish I could do that. 00:35:38 Speaker 2: I'm not saying I don't wish I could do it, but I don't have that deep yearning that I used to. I just had to get out and, you know, run five miles. I just had to. Now it's like, eh, it's okay. I'll go have a glass of wine instead. 00:35:53 Speaker 1: You say about the title, Changing Cadence, comes from football, but it's really about life, a shift in rhythm, a disruption, a moment where you have to adjust on the fly and hope it works out, preferably without jumping offside. Did you find yourself offside at all? 00:36:13 Speaker 2: No. 00:36:13 Speaker 1: No. 00:36:15 Speaker 2: It was hard in the beginning to leave the field. Now I'm talking about retiring from the field. I think it was harder. Listen, I started seeing the ground coming at me and it wasn't pretty. I was like, oh boy, here we go. And to that point, I was, you know, well, you change, you just change. It was harder for me to give up the team. I think leave the field. a lot of nostalgic moments. I spent 20 years with this team and it was also a way of life. So yes, it was harder, I think, to do that for me. 00:36:51 Speaker 1: You're playing as quarterback and the quarterback is there to be crunched. 00:36:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, fortunately I could run my, I had a, I was very much a running quarterback player. my dad used to call my, my getaway sticks, uh, you know, get those getaway sticks going. Um, so I could outrun a lot of them, which saved my life. I'm sure several times. 00:37:21 Speaker 1: There's, there's obviously in the, in a book, like you've written this sadness, you, you, I mean, you talk about losing a teammate, how that affects you. Can you explore that for us? 00:37:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, we lost a very dear teammate. Um, we'd also, her name was Sharon, and we had known Sharon for years and years because she played flag with us long before the tackle came along, so she was, you know, a very good friend, and she was killed in a car accident on Christmas Eve of 2000, 2001, and, oh, just so needless. She got tired. She threw the keys to her boyfriend, said, will you please drive? He went to sleep and hit a tree, and He was okay, but we lost our Sharon. And it really, I have to say, it almost ended the team because we went into such a spiral. And she was our linebacker. So, you know, and she was one of those people, just light, just pure light. She was a special ed teacher. She had three masters. She was the best dancer on the team. She was just... You know, life. She just embodied life. And it was a huge loss. We did pull through it, but it wasn't easy. 00:38:40 Speaker 1: Is there ways that you honor her or remember her? 00:38:44 Speaker 2: Well, if you remember when I said I started the Fins Up Foundation, that was in honor of Sharon. Because she was a teacher, we began giving camps to kids in the tri-state area and teaching them the game of football and life skills. And it evolved into football. far more than that. But it began because of Sharon and her honor. 00:39:06 Speaker 1: And how popular is the foundation? How busy is it? 00:39:13 Speaker 2: We do a lot. We do now, honestly, more with flag because, like I said, I think flag is the fastest growing sport in our country. It's just insane how it's catching on on at every age uh every age every level it's just crazy so we do more with flag now than we do with tackle. 00:39:34 Speaker 1: Um a couple of i've got to go back um that intrigued me what happened to the farm what happened to the ranch what happened to the ranch The ranch, yes, yes. 00:39:44 Speaker 2: The ranch. Because it was cattle and horses, not pigs and sheep. We still have a portion of it. My father passed in 2010, but we still have a portion of it. And in fact, I leave New York City in the winters now, and I have a little tiny cabin out in the middle of Florida ranch land that I go and spend the winters there. So yeah, I love it. 00:40:12 Speaker 1: Isn't that what New Yorkers do, though? They go south to Florida? 00:40:16 Speaker 2: They do, but not to where I go. They go to the palms of the sandy beaches. I go to the wilderness, which is nice. 00:40:25 Speaker 1: It intrigues me. The whole story intrigues me. This little girl who grew up wanting to play football goes to New York and ends up playing the sport she loves, the full-on tackle football, owns the club, and then gets inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. That... I mean, I just didn't realise that they had women footballers who had been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So it's an amazing story. 00:40:49 Speaker 2: It's very recent. It was only a couple of years ago. 00:40:52 Speaker 1: Oh, congratulations. Well done. The book is called Changing Cadence, Friendship Football and the Art of Transition. Andra, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a delight chatting. 00:41:03 Speaker 2: I appreciate your interest. 00:41:06 Speaker 1: Andra Douglas was my guest, folks. Thank you so much for joining us.