บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode Three: Justin Warfield (She Wants Revenge, Forever Never Changes, WARFIELD)

and then eventually 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.510 that toy might sit on the Shelf right or 00:04:30.520 --> 00:04:32.189 it could be a relationship that's really 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:33.790 important to you and you lose sight of 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.749 how crucial that is and uh how much you 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:38.469 value it and so you start stop putting 00:04:38.479 --> 00:04:40.790 in the work for it I think that's what 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:42.710 it comes down to right is the work it's 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.950 like if you're in a romantic or a 00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:47.590 business or creative or like just 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.749 platonic friend relationship like those 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:51.350 take work you have to text you have to 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.550 call you have to make efforts and so I 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:56.430 think that like when I have lost um 00:04:56.440 --> 00:04:58.110 touch with my relationship with my 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:00.150 recovery right going with 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.070 metaphor um I've definitely done so over 00:05:03.080 --> 00:05:06.270 the years um and the one thing that 00:05:06.280 --> 00:05:08.830 keeps me plugged in is I've never lost 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:12.710 touch with my fellowship my sober 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.870 Community because then they can hold me 00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:18.430 accountable and if I can't see the 00:05:18.440 --> 00:05:20.870 distance between me and my program or me 00:05:20.880 --> 00:05:26.309 and uh or my my program and I or 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.790 meetings they'll be like hey dude like 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.390 uh haven't seen you on Tuesdays or you 00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:33.909 know whatever that thing is so I don't 00:05:33.919 --> 00:05:36.029 think that we're the always the best 00:05:36.039 --> 00:05:38.350 Arbiters of where we are and taking our 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.790 temperature um let me say this we know 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:43.830 when we're in a great place with it with 00:05:43.840 --> 00:05:46.350 our program and our and our um spiritual 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:48.350 condition and our recovery but we don't 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:49.870 always know when we're in a bad place 00:05:49.880 --> 00:05:51.710 with it and so luckily for me it's been 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.029 other people that sort of like reel me 00:05:54.039 --> 00:05:55.870 in and you 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:59.270 know but it's interesting because it be 00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:00.909 I became became aware 00:06:00.919 --> 00:06:03.710 about four or five days ago and having 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:05.150 conversation with somebody that I'm more 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:06.909 active in my recovery now than any point 00:06:06.919 --> 00:06:09.950 in my life which is pretty wild because 00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:12.029 I've been doing this for a little minute 00:06:12.039 --> 00:06:15.189 wow yeah that's amazing how do you get 00:06:15.199

--> 00:06:19.230 in the middle of the pack so to speak 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:20.870 for me it's saying yes is the first 00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:25.230 thing yeah it's like in life like I can 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.749 like when one has a tendency to isolate 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:29.189 someone's like Hey we're doing a get 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.270 together do you want come over it's easy 00:06:30.280 --> 00:06:32.430 to be like h no I'm good thank you it 00:06:32.440 --> 00:06:34.110 feels good to be wanted but we also want 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.749 to isolate sometimes and separate 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.230 ourselves um I've spoken 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:44.390 at I think I spoke at a meeting last 00:06:44.400 --> 00:06:48.070 night I spoke at a meeting um last 00:06:48.080 --> 00:06:51.150 Thursday I spoke at a meeting about two 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:52.950 and a half weeks 00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:55.909 ago um that 00:06:55.919 --> 00:06:59.950 helps um you know meeting Friday night 00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:02.909 that I had to bring snacks to because uh 00:07:02.919 --> 00:07:05.550 you know I I raised my hand so that I'll 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:07.830 I'll be sure to be at that meeting and I 00:07:07.840 --> 00:07:09.270 think it's saying yes and taking 00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:10.909 commitments and being accountable to 00:07:10.919 --> 00:07:11.790 other 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.070 people um you know someone said it 00:07:14.080 --> 00:07:18.909 meeting the other night 00:07:18.919 --> 00:07:23.230 um um you know that they had said in the 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:24.710 past well that meeting sucks and their 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:26.070 sponsor said well what are you bringing 00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:28.309 to it so like I try and come from a 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.029 place of like 00:07:30.039 --> 00:07:31.909 if I'm going in there like it's a pit 00:07:31.919 --> 00:07:33.990 stop or like to fill my tank and then 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:35.710 get back on the highway I'm approaching 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:37.909 it the wrong way and I have to say like 00:07:37.919 --> 00:07:41.029 what can I bring to this how can I be of 00:07:41.039 --> 00:07:43.350 service and it and it I'm not doing that 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.830 because like I'm like a spiritual giant 00:07:44.840 --> 00:07:47.270 or like such a virtuous person it's just 00:07:47.280 --> 00:07:49.749 I know that like that's where the 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:52.510 results will come that'll make me feel 00:07:52.520 --> 00:07:53.990 more 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.589 comfortable H selfishly you know what I 00:07:57.599 --> 00:08:00.469 mean the byproduct is you get to other 00:08:00.479 --> 00:08:03.749 people right right so you stay in that 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:05.710 role of service I stay in the role of 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:07.990 service as much as possible and I stay 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.830 in the middle I'm not the best at like 00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:12.070 picking up the phone calling my sponsor 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:16.589 um I'm I will I I have 00:08:16.599 --> 00:08:20.390 a I mean to be honest like I just love 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:23.189 it that's how I stay in the middle I 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.710 just I love it like I'm totally aware 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.350 that like everything good in my life 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:32.430 came as a result of of recovery and 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.829 so at this point in my 00:08:35.839 --> 00:08:39.110 life I firmly believe that if I want the 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.389 outside of my life to change I have to 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.990 start with the inside and I F that for a 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.470 long time even though everything I have 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.750 in my life is a result of my recovery I 00:08:48.760 --> 00:08:51.630 remember very clearly one time driving 00:08:51.640 --> 00:08:53.230 down the street I remember exactly where 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:56.110 I was like driving through Silver Lake 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:57.910 and I was thinking about how I wanted my 00:08:57.920 --> 00:08:59.829 life to change and I was struck with 00:08:59.839 --> 00:09:01.630 this thought and this is like not a 00:09:01.640 --> 00:09:03.750 voice literally but something said to me 00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:06.310 like if you want those things on the 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:07.910 outside to change you have to actually 00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:10.470 do the work on the inside and it was so 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:13.190 upsetting because I wanted somebody just 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:14.630 to sort of life coach me and go oh if 00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:15.829 you want to do this and this this will 00:09:15.839 --> 00:09:18.269 happen in your career or whatever and so 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:19.870 like now I don't even think about what 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:22.470 to do on the outside and it's become 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.350 like a muscle that I've exercised enough 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.949 so if I know that I want circumstances 00:09:27.959 --> 00:09:29.710 and uh conditions of my life or 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:31.870 relationships or things to change I just 00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:33.910 have to like do the work and the work is 00:09:33.920 --> 00:09:36.069 not just going to meetings being of 00:09:36.079 --> 00:09:38.269 service but also like step work and so 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:40.470 for me like I'm just really active in it 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.949 right now but there's been periods where 00:09:41.959 --> 00:09:44.590 I haven't for like weeks months but I'm 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:45.829 always 00:09:45.839 --> 00:09:47.710 connected and like the last thing I'll 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.509 say about that is like because you know 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:52.750 you and I are people who have like 00:09:52.760 --> 00:09:54.630 toured and traveled and not always like 00:09:54.640 --> 00:09:56.710 had one specific

home base and or moving 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.870 a lot when I'm not I plug getting even 00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:02.030 harder and when I came back from 00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:04.350 tour about a year ago I found that there 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.550 was all these new people in my um 00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:09.430 community of recovery and it was so 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:10.670 exciting because they wanted it they 00:10:10.680 --> 00:10:13.069 were passionate and I was like an 00:10:13.079 --> 00:10:14.470 outsider and they didn't know me because 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:16.150 I hadn't been around some of these 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:18.310 meetings in a long time and so I was 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.790 like I want to be a part of this and so 00:10:20.800 --> 00:10:23.389 like I put out my hand and made sure 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.190 people knew me and ingratiated myself 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.550 and and and threw myself into the center 00:10:28.560 --> 00:10:30.870 with the people I knew knew and loved 00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:33.750 and then uh that spread outwards and now 00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:37.389 I am in the center of that so it's wow 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:40.910 yeah that's it's inspiring to hear I'm 00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:42.710 an outgoing person too like it's not 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:44.550 like I'm not a shy person so it's like 00:10:44.560 --> 00:10:46.829 it's not big deal for 00:10:46.839 --> 00:10:48.870 me what are your thoughts about being a 00:10:48.880 --> 00:10:51.550 shy person trying to get in the 00:10:51.560 --> 00:10:54.470 middle well I think that um it's that 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:57.310 contrary action right of 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:00.430 like we do I mean like think about it 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:02.269 like in terms of like when you go to a 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:04.230 party 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.430 like most of 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.310 us would go to a party and be like okay 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:10.750 like if you don't know anybody or if 00:11:10.760 --> 00:11:12.150 you're only there with one person your 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:13.550 person gets in a conversation with 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:15.710 somebody else like if you're like me 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:16.829 you're probably standing up against the 00:11:16.839 --> 00:11:18.350 wall just being like okay like who do I 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.790 talk to and like if you want to have a 00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:22.230 good time sometimes you have to force 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:23.829 yourself in like uncomfortable 00:11:23.839 --> 00:11:26.190 situations or take that contrary action 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:27.590 but I also think the difference between 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.509 like going to a party and going to like 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.389 program of recovery 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:33.710 is at the party that people might just 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:35.350 stay in their Clicks in groups and not 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:37.030 welcome you but I think it's really 00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:39.750 incumbent upon people that aren't shy or 00:11:39.760 --> 00:11:41.590 that are getting past their shyness in 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.670 order to help themselves or others that 00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:45.430 they put out their hand so it's like for 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.590 me if I see somebody who's shy like I 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.350 reach out and I'm like hey what's up you 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:51.509 know and 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.790 like I think that's important I'm also 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:56.230 like pretty old school and the way that 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.069 I was taught 00:11:58.079 --> 00:12:01.949 was um um that like if there is somebody 00:12:01.959 --> 00:12:03.910 like that that like I should go up to a 00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:06.990 guy or someone identifies as a male and 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:08.590 like approach them and that if it's 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:11.150 somebody who's fam or female or female 00:12:11.160 --> 00:12:12.949 identifying that like rather than me 00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:16.750 approach them grab somebody who I love 00:12:16.760 --> 00:12:19.069 and Trust who I know could be helpful 00:12:19.079 --> 00:12:21.509 and like throw them at them or walk over 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:23.389 to that person and go hey like do you 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.670 know her like you should talk to her I 00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:27.189 just think that it's important just like 00:12:27.199 --> 00:12:28.710 make sure people feel safe in those 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:30.389 situations and they don't think that 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:32.790 there's anything other than like yeah 00:12:32.800 --> 00:12:35.189 the intention there yeah that's great 00:12:35.199 --> 00:12:37.189 cuz it's not always like that which 00:12:37.199 --> 00:12:39.470 blows my mind and like I've I haven't 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.990 seen that since I F first got uh clean 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.949 sober like but it's crazy that that I've 00:12:44.959 --> 00:12:48.949 seen it that's so creepy yeah yeah um 00:12:48.959 --> 00:12:51.670 you guys were really young I was 00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:54.670 thinking about that yeah how did 00:12:54.680 --> 00:13:01.150 that like how did you first come in 00:13:01.160 --> 00:13:02.670 you know it's so funny it's like now I 00:13:02.680 --> 00:13:07.269 look at it and I feel 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.069 like most days I feel like I got sober 00:13:10.079 --> 00:13:13.310 like older but that's ridiculous like 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.069 because I was a kid but at the time it 00:13:16.079 --> 00:13:19.829 felt like just like a long slog of like 00:13:19.839 --> 00:13:21.710 being loaded that was like beating me 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:27.069 down so I I came in it 00:13:27.079 --> 00:13:32.829 um just shy of my 26th birthday so I was 00:13:32.839 --> 00:13:36.870 25 and so getting clean at 25 was crazy 00:13:36.880 -->

00:13:39.870 because you know things only really got 00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:41.790 like really really 00:13:41.800 --> 00:13:46.509 gnarly probably around 20 you know 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.670 things were rolling before maybe 19 mhm 00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:52.509 I started kind of late like a lot of 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.990 people like you know start 13 14 or 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.230 whatever that wasn't my story like my 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.710 first drug of choice was like adrenaline 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.350 and um you know doing graffiti running 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.790 from the police like um going out at 00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:11.430 night like dangerous situations like 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.990 which later in life is triggering and I 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.829 have to be careful with adrenaline if 00:14:15.839 --> 00:14:17.829 whether it's like 00:14:17.839 --> 00:14:21.230 anger you know somebody attacking me on 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:23.749 social media like anything that can like 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.230 traffic CU that stuff's super triggering 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.350 but for me I started kind of late but I 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.629 hit the ground running at like 20 and by 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.990 25 it was awful and 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.870 so coming in and 00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:41.670 surrendering I don't know I don't know 00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:43.110 that I could say what it was like it's 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.069 just that was just my experience like at 00:14:45.079 --> 00:14:46.829 25 when I came 00:14:46.839 --> 00:14:49.870 in I was totally beaten down and for me 00:14:49.880 --> 00:14:51.790 what it looked like was picking up the I 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:54.030 was living in London and there was a lot 00:14:54.040 --> 00:14:55.749 of isolation there cuz even though I had 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.150 a community and 00:14:57.160 --> 00:15:00.150 friends and people I worked with with at 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:01.710 the end of the night it was just me 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.230 alone in my flat like alone with my 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:09.350 thoughts and it was dark and I started 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.550 picking up the phone and calling 00:15:11.560 --> 00:15:14.509 people and uh and trying to get a 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:16.030 reflection cuz I had started to have 00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:18.550 these real questions like the behavior 00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:20.030 that I was exhibiting was clear that I 00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:22.670 was like a drug addict who was going to 00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:24.550 die but I started reaching out and just 00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:26.030 doing that very simple thing of like do 00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:27.230 you think I'm an 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.550 addict which is like a crazy thing to do 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:32.590 um when you're doing something so 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.870 clearly is addiction but I did that I 00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:35.749 just started picking up the phone and 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.430 going do you think I'm an addict like um 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.629 some people that I was using with back 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.790 in Los Angeles before I went to live in 00:15:42.800 --> 00:15:44.629 London that time some people that were 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.910 not addicts or alcoholics some people 00:15:46.920 --> 00:15:48.790 that have known me before my active 00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:50.629 addiction and 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.749 alcoholism some people that I I 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:54.790 remembered I thought got clean or like 00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:56.269 we in a 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.590 program and I got the answers some I 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.710 wanted some I didn't and I kept picking 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:02.949 up probably looking for a different 00:16:02.959 --> 00:16:04.670 answer right and the answer kind of 00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:07.470 stayed the same right and so I followed 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:09.870 up that information with action which 00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:12.030 was like called like a a general service 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:14.470 line like a help line and nobody picked 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.829 up and I for some reason left a message 00:16:17.839 --> 00:16:21.110 voicemail wow and I went to bed like 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.269 many other times before where I was like 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:25.910 if you let me get through this I promise 00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:28.910 like you know yeah fill in the blanks 00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:30.870 and I woke up I don't even know how I 00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:33.430 went to bed passed out but I woke up 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.309 with a ringing phone that wouldn't 00:16:35.319 --> 00:16:37.790 stop cuz I don't think I had a hamstr 00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:39.710 machine it just the phone kept ringing 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.389 like a landline ringing and 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.350 ringing and uh I had a loft my bed was 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:48.509 literally up like in the rafters of and 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.949 I climbed down the ladder and which made 00:16:51.959 --> 00:16:56.509 it easier to uh be willing cuz I'd like 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.710 okay like picked up the phone I'm like 00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:59.030 hello and they're like hi you called I 00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:01.790 was like oh 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:04.350 no is that action followed up it was 00:17:04.360 --> 00:17:05.949 that willingness followed up with action 00:17:05.959 --> 00:17:07.350 they're like you called and I was like 00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:09.909 yeah I'm okay and they're like nope 00:17:09.919 --> 00:17:11.669 why'd you call you called for a reason 00:17:11.679 --> 00:17:14.029 where are you I told them where I was 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:15.510 they looked at a list they said there's 00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:18.069 this meeting you should go there and my

00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:19.470 life was completely different afterwards 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:21.829 and I honestly I could get super emo 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.270 about it I have no idea what my life 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:24.630 would have looked like if that person 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.510 didn't pick up the phone if that 00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:28.510 specific person wasn't the one answering 00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:32.630 the the messages who wouldn't um Let Me 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.669 wiggle out of it if they would have told 00:17:34.679 --> 00:17:36.510 me a different meeting cuz I met people 00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:38.110 that I've have relationships with to 00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:41.230 this day at that meeting yeah so it 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.110 completely changed my life and I think 00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:45.549 that being 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.590 25 was good because I was young enough 00:17:48.600 --> 00:17:50.590 to where I had lived a life that I was 00:17:50.600 --> 00:17:52.510 sick and tired of living but young 00:17:52.520 --> 00:17:53.950 enough to where I felt like there was 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.669 hope too and I know that I've spoken to 00:17:56.679 --> 00:17:58.630 people I spoke to somebody last night 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.510 and meeting who's my exact age who's new 00:18:02.520 --> 00:18:03.789 and I was like it doesn't matter it's 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:05.549 not a race it's quality of life and like 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:07.909 you deserve to give yourself this life 00:18:07.919 --> 00:18:10.230 but I can see that it's harder when you 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.870 get older 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:14.390 because um there's more to beat yourself 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:15.590 up over 00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:17.470 probably do you think there's something 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.950 about being young and I know I've 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:21.390 struggled with this because I came in at 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:24.630 21 that's 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.430 amazing I've definitely struggled 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:31.750 with being young oh I have more time to 00:18:31.760 --> 00:18:35.310 kind of go out right and [ __ ] around and 00:18:35.320 --> 00:18:37.870 see what happens and you know it's not a 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.909 big deal I'm under 30 that kind of 00:18:41.919 --> 00:18:45.390 mentality can take you 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.390 out I think the danger of that 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.990 is that thinking works on the under the 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.750 assumption that we have a choice when we 00:18:52.760 --> 00:18:55.549 come back yeah and what's been my 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.870 experience not personally because 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.710 relapse isn't a part of my story it's a 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.909 part of people around me story and so I 00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:04.950 I've seen it 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.549 intimately and I've seen it where people 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:08.830 come back and they make it and they 00:19:08.840 --> 00:19:10.190 build great lives and I've seen it where 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.310 they die a lot of a lot more death than 00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:16.750 making it back and nowadays with what it 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:19.870 looks like to be um somebody who has to 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:23.110 test the drugs and travel around with 00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:24.110 you 00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:26.470 know additional drugs that will revive 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:27.710 them in case of 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.590 overdose I just think that like the 00:19:29.600 --> 00:19:31.990 assumption that like even with a handful 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.230 of uh program or recovery that you can 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.430 like choose when you come back because I 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.950 truly believe that sort of old timey 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:44.029 thing of like you 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.029 like like you you pick you you choose 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.390 the first drink or the first drug and 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:50.789 then after that it's no longer your 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.070 choice so like to me it's like if you 00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:55.070 believe that you're an addict or an 00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:57.710 alcoholic um the lie that like it'll be 00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.909 different and also like I have friends 00:19:59.919 --> 00:20:03.590 that got clean and sober like very young 00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:06.029 like your your age and younger and they 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.510 were like I just want to like like I I I 00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:09.990 know the speech so well because they 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.630 come to you and they say hey like I just 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:14.430 want to let you know since we're friends 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:18.070 like I just feel like look I my life is 00:20:18.080 --> 00:20:19.870 so much better because I did this and I 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:21.430 don't regret and the speech is always 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.789 the same it's like my life is like I 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:25.510 completely have this life because of 00:20:25.520 --> 00:20:29.470 recovery um and I know that but I did 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.870 get clean or sober young and I just feel 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:33.149 like there might be something out there 00:20:33.159 --> 00:20:35.029 and like maybe I'm not I just have to 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.350 test and like this this that that speech 00:20:38.360 --> 00:20:39.669 is always the 00:20:39.679 --> 00:20:41.549 same 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.549 and once or twice have I seen that 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.950 person actually live a life that seems 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:52.190 like aign me and that's with like I 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.909 can't even count how many people that it 00:20:53.919 --> 00:20:57.669 didn't make it back right and so I just 00:20:57.679 --> 00:20:59.789 think

it's based on it's like listening 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:00.789 to a 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.350 lie and a very dangerous one and so like 00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:06.750 I think with you or other people who get 00:21:06.760 --> 00:21:10.390 it young the wh ifs of what you might be 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.789 missing out there there's nothing out 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:16.510 there like if you really 00:21:16.520 --> 00:21:19.230 believe and also like we don't make it 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:22.909 to like church basements and like you 00:21:22.919 --> 00:21:26.310 know Senior Citizen Center and like 00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:29.870 sitting in weird rooms in circles with 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:34.750 each other or or doing you 00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:37.430 know things that are against our Nature 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:42.269 by accident like we don't fall into 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.870 recovery as tourists we come because our 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.549 lives depend on 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.070 it so when we forget we probably are 00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:54.029 like I don't know like maybe that was a 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.789 phase maybe that was just like based on 00:21:57.799 --> 00:21:59.590 the circumstance I was going through in 00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.789 my life at that time and so I think that 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.029 the most important thing that I can do 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:05.750 is remember what it was like at its 00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:08.190 worst not at its 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:09.950 best 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:11.830 right 00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:14.789 yeah I think coming in young can be hard 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:16.549 for that 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.789 reason yeah yeah I mean there's also the 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.110 like wait like that was never around 00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:25.390 when I was using like oh my go that one 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:27.789 looks fun like I could go down the list 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.470 of like I never had a Mojito like I 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:35.630 never did you know like whatever like 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.310 you know I was never around for legal 00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:40.549 weed you know what I mean I never had 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.230 that funky new drink they came up with I 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.029 never did that weird new drug that was 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:45.310 cooked 00:22:45.320 --> 00:22:48.070 up whiteclaw is not one that I felt bad 00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:50.230 about for Loco and whiteclaw were like 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.070 phases where I was like I'm good like 00:22:53.080 --> 00:22:54.830 but whenever those things come up you're 00:22:54.840 --> 00:22:57.549 like there's always an answer there's 00:22:57.559 --> 00:22:59.789 always an answer why do I want a Mojito 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:02.310 I don't I like limes cool somebody like 00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:04.470 put lime in like a like a weird mason 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.750 jar slam it down with like some club 00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:08.149 soda and I'll drink it and I'll be like 00:23:08.159 --> 00:23:10.269 this is fantastic right and then like I 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:13.950 don't end up in jail 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:15.909 right 00:23:15.919 --> 00:23:18.510 um were there times when you came really 00:23:18.520 --> 00:23:21.110 close to relapse and how did you prevent 00:23:21.120 --> 00:23:25.470 it for me no they weren't 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:28.110 um I don't know why some people get it 00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:29.909 and some people don't like I had this 00:23:29.919 --> 00:23:31.430 conversation with a friend of 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:36.149 mine who's an amazing woman and uh we 00:23:36.159 --> 00:23:37.909 grew we grew up together we went to high 00:23:37.919 --> 00:23:39.830 school together we're in recovery 00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:42.149 together and we were talking about 00:23:42.159 --> 00:23:43.870 someone else who we went to school with 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:45.310 who just 00:23:45.320 --> 00:23:49.630 died and I said and I I saw them I said 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.590 hey like what why oh no actually wasn't 00:23:52.600 --> 00:23:55.190 in person it was just it was um texting 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:59.510 and I was like why us and and not him 00:23:59.520 --> 00:24:02.230 and I was like I went down to like my 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.149 belief was that he couldn't be like 00:24:05.159 --> 00:24:07.549 constitutionally honest with himself and 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:09.789 others but like that's not my place to 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.789 judge that's just like we're not Saints 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:14.230 like sometimes we like have judgments 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.390 and I like you know like sometimes we 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.710 look we're like I don't know they kind 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:19.190 of seem like they're still holding on to 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:21.390 something right yeah holding on to an 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.029 old idea of themselves holding on to an 00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.269 idea of what their life or career is 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:26.990 supposed to look like holding on to the 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.750 cash and prizes I don't know and she was 00:24:28.760 --> 00:24:31.470 like no man it's Grace that's why we got 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.590 it and I just kind of shut me up cuz I 00:24:33.600 --> 00:24:35.389 was like I think that's what it is 00:24:35.399 --> 00:24:37.909 honestly like I am not a religious 00:24:37.919 --> 00:24:41.029 person I push back against certain 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.789 prayers certain language and there's 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.029 still that contrary part of myself but I 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.630 have 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.830 100% I I believe to my core that like a 00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:55.549 window of opportunity opened one night 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.029 in like a very very very cold

February 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:00.070 like when I was living in London and I 00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:02.310 saw the window open like a portal in a 00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:04.750 Sci-Fi movie right like when it's like 00:25:04.760 --> 00:25:06.269 that like thing and it's like you got 00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:07.389 like you know what I mean it's like a 00:25:07.399 --> 00:25:08.630 movie like Back to the Future like you 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.110 got to get back like you're erasing from 00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:12.549 the picture whatever it is I saw this 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.230 thing closing and there were many times 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.789 before where I saw that and I didn't go 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:18.630 through it and that time I was like I'm 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:24.070 going to jump through that because I'm 00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:26.510 scared to say I'm uncomfortable would be 00:25:26.520 --> 00:25:29.029 an understatement 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.630 but I was like scared of dying not but 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:34.070 also like oh my God like this is the 00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:37.190 closest I've been to dying but like I'm 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.190 not behaving like someone who's afraid 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:39.830 of 00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:43.029 it so once I just jumped inside that 00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:45.470 window and and became willing to do 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:47.590 whatever it took to stay in that place I 00:25:47.600 --> 00:25:50.389 believe that to be a moment of Grace and 00:25:50.399 --> 00:25:53.110 like a 00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:57.230 um I've never gotten close to relapsing 00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.870 because I stay in that 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.870 place and it's my belief that that 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:05.830 window isn't going to happen again if I 00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:07.510 do 00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:10.110 like maybe that's what I told myself in 00:26:10.120 --> 00:26:12.190 the beginning so that I wouldn't I don't 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.190 care what it is I just know that like 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.269 I've never been close to picking up a 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:17.669 drink or a 00:26:17.679 --> 00:26:20.470 drug 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.789 because I I work so hard to have what I 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:25.830 have that I didn't want to throw it away 00:26:25.840 --> 00:26:27.950 sometimes it could just be pride and it 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.149 could just be like I don't want to give 00:26:29.159 --> 00:26:31.389 up my time or I don't want to raise my 00:26:31.399 --> 00:26:34.710 hand or or I don't want to start over 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.630 and lose the 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.990 stuff sometimes it's 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.870 just others around you but I've never 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.269 been close and even somebody who's been 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.389 traveling for the last you know couple 00:26:48.399 --> 00:26:50.990 of decades like even when I'm

far from 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.909 my group or my people or my even when 00:26:53.919 --> 00:26:58.470 I'm far from my my recovery like you 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:00.830 said at the top where I'm like not doing 00:27:00.840 --> 00:27:02.350 the 00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:05.310 stuff I just built a 00:27:05.320 --> 00:27:07.990 life of 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.750 being clean and sober and I never want 00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:13.230 to give that up and I also think about 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:14.789 it like if someone tried to take that 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.710 from 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.750 me how I would protect myself like I was 00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:22.630 defending like the life of someone I 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:24.590 love and 00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:27.470 so I guard it in the same way I guess 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:28.909 how long has it been 00:27:28.919 --> 00:27:31.190 25 years a little like over 25 years 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.070 amazing it's crazy it's crazy that's 00:27:34.080 --> 00:27:35.750 amazing it 00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:38.190 really you know I really struggle with 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.149 certain things in recovery at this point 00:27:41.159 --> 00:27:42.509 they're different 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:46.029 things I try and look at like I've been 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:47.310 thinking a lot recently because I've 00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:48.990 been speaking a lot at meetings I've 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:50.750 been thinking about like I'm not the 00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:53.549 best person to tell my story I can tell 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:55.549 the circumstances of what happened but I 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:56.990 think the more we tell our story The 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.350 more like you think that the more you 00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:00.630 told it the more you remembered it and 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.789 the more clearer it got but I actually 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.350 think the more we tell our stories in 00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:07.350 life as storytellers the more that they 00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:09.190 become copies of a copy of a copy of a 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.430 copy sure and so I try not to tell my 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.310 story so much when I share in meetings 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:15.830 and I try just to talk about very 00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:17.630 specific things that are indisputable 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.590 facts without me coloring it or 00:28:19.600 --> 00:28:21.470 dramatizing or making it cooler more 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:24.029 exciting or sexier or funnier and then 00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:25.909 talk about where I'm at now because I 00:28:25.919 --> 00:28:27.830 don't always trust my perception of 00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:28.750 things 00:28:28.760 --> 00:28:30.710 not just as an alcoholic an addict but 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.830 also just as a person with an ego 00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:35.950 right but lately I've been struggling 00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.990 with like humility false humility and 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.110 like sharing at a meeting last night I 00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:44.029 said you know I don't come in here to be 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.029 a good person I came in here blah and I 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:48.310 I'm like it's not that I'm a good person 00:28:48.320 --> 00:28:50.509 or that I'm virtuous it's that I want to 00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:51.630 put out my hand in the newcomer I want 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:53.110 to do this and then I was talking to 00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:55.470 someone afterwards and I was like maybe 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:56.870 that's the wrong information to say that 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.549 I'm not a good person maybe I'm telling 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.430 myself the bad information maybe by 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.549 doing right actions and the right things 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:05.990 we become good people and I'm working 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.630 with accepting the fact that I am a good 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.190 person 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:14.909 and that's where I'm at today so like 00:29:14.919 --> 00:29:17.389 it's not a struggle to stay clean sober 00:29:17.399 --> 00:29:20.029 it's been quarter of a century which is 00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:22.710 insane and by the way coming in at 25 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:24.549 I've been sober half my life that's 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:26.990 crazy I know that but the reason why I 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.070 talked about that other stuff is because 00:29:29.080 --> 00:29:30.870 it's okay just to say that and be proud 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:33.310 of it but like I want to be like oh no 00:29:33.320 --> 00:29:35.350 like because I don't want to seem like 00:29:35.360 --> 00:29:36.870 the person who's like pounding my chest 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.950 like I'm I'm an old-timer but like it is 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.269 a big deal and I think it needs to be 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.990 shown to the newcomer that it's possible 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.630 that like you can have a big fun wild 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.549 insane 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:53.190 amazing exciting life and do whatever 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:55.669 you want in recovery because my life was 00:29:55.679 --> 00:29:58.269 none of those things in the end of my 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:00.230 drinking and using there were times that 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.549 were sexy there were times that were 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.269 exciting there were times that were fun 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:04.750 there were times where I achieved High 00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:06.190 there was also times where I burned it 00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.230 all down and I completely [ __ ] 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:13.389 everything up and to be 51 years old 25 00:30:13.399 --> 00:30:15.830 years sober and have like a really big 00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:17.630 life there's some days where my life is 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:21.389 so overwhelming and

I'm 00:30:21.399 --> 00:30:23.950 just I the only thing I could do is pick 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:24.710 up the 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:28.269 phone be of service ask someone for help 00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:30.990 or run to a meeting and that hasn't 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.950 changed so like in that 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.830 way I can be just as raw as a newcomer 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:38.110 sometimes the only different is 00:30:38.120 --> 00:30:40.990 difference is I've exercised that muscle 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.070 so many times so I'm not going to be 00:30:43.080 --> 00:30:44.630 uncomfortable and just like reach for a 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.870 drink you know what I mean totally 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.669 hopefully 00:30:49.679 --> 00:30:51.350 yeah 00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:54.230 um you did the most beautiful thing for 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.110 me about a year and a half ago which is 00:30:58.120 --> 00:31:00.350 my manager Brett Raiden passed away and 00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:03.110 you really showed up for me and you came 00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:04.990 to the funeral 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.190 and it is something I will never 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.029 forget how does your sobriety enable you 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.389 to show up for 00:31:13.399 --> 00:31:15.389 others I was hoping you weren't going to 00:31:15.399 --> 00:31:16.870 talk about this because I was like we're 00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.389 g to end up 00:31:19.399 --> 00:31:23.990 crying 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:28.590 um it's not me is all I can say it's not 00:31:28.600 --> 00:31:30.190 I want to be careful here because this 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.110 is that thing I talked about about 00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:35.509 like 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.149 accepting truths or compliments without 00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:42.350 deflecting which is um not fair and it's 00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:46.590 also not cool um and it's another weird 00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:48.629 form of ego I think but the other night 00:31:48.639 --> 00:31:51.430 I was at a I was in a meeting was like a 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.990 men Stag and I was sharing about 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.430 um a friend who died 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:03.269 last week and how I had a show and I had 00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.509 to go play a show and I left sound check 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:08.990 and I went over to the memorial just so 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.310 I could um see my friends son and 00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:14.750 daughter and give them a 00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:17.629 hug and um and then I came back and I 00:32:17.639 --> 00:32:18.509 played the 00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.870 show 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.750 and I told this and my friend said 00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:26.870 well well yeah of course that's what you 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.269 do that's what you did for me when my 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:29.269 brother 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.350 died and that's just like what people 00:32:32.360 --> 00:32:34.310 showed me what to do you know what I 00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:36.710 mean it's not because I'm so smart or 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.070 I'm such a good person or I'm so I think 00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:41.389 that people showed me things to 00:32:41.399 --> 00:32:43.350 do in 00:32:43.360 --> 00:32:46.149 situations and I think what we do as 00:32:46.159 --> 00:32:48.990 people who spend a lot of time hurting 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.669 ourselves and others is we come into 00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:54.110 recovery and people teach us simple 00:32:54.120 --> 00:32:56.590 actions that build our self-esteem and 00:32:56.600 --> 00:32:58.350 make us feel self-esteemed 00:32:58.360 --> 00:33:00.350 that then make us capable of taking 00:33:00.360 --> 00:33:01.909 those simple actions that make other 00:33:01.919 --> 00:33:04.190 people feel better and by doing that we 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.789 become the people that we are either 00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:07.909 supposed to be or want to be right and 00:33:07.919 --> 00:33:09.430 then we become good 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.870 people um and so when that 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.990 happened it was just the next right 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.310 action or intuitive thought because 00:33:19.320 --> 00:33:21.230 those muscles have been exercised so 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.190 many times that when I saw what you were 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:25.830 going 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:28.350 through I was like this is just what we 00:33:28.360 --> 00:33:33.310 do like this is just no question like um 00:33:33.320 --> 00:33:36.350 so I'm uncomfortable talking about it 00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:38.070 because it makes me feel like I'm 00:33:38.080 --> 00:33:40.269 drawing attention 00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:43.269 to actions which are POS like if I'm 00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.310 going to like if I'm going to be like at 00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:47.830 a freeway exit and somebody is there and 00:33:47.840 --> 00:33:49.750 they're like asking for money and I give 00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:51.509 them $5 I'm not going to tell somebody 00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:56.549 about that you know what I mean yeah 00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:00.590 um what is super funny cuz the other day 00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:03.269 I was like wow I used to do that all the 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.269 time and give money to people in need 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.669 and like I I started exercising this 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.750 muscle in the wrong way where like I'd 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.950 be busy with people and I'd see someone 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.069 I'd be like no I'm sorry I don't have it 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.430 or like though I'm sorry know whether 00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:17.869 it's somebody wanting me to sign up 00:34:17.879 --> 00:34:19.750 about an environmental issue or 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.950 political issue or money I've been I've 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:23.470 been flexing the wrong muscle

for like 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:25.230 the last few years of like I'm sorry no 00:34:25.240 --> 00:34:27.510 like and I was like whoa when did that 00:34:27.520 --> 00:34:29.230 happen happened cuz I used to be like of 00:34:29.240 --> 00:34:33.349 course or yes and so again when that 00:34:33.359 --> 00:34:36.149 happened with you I was just like it's 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:40.310 just it's a reflex and it's easy to do 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.230 when you're crazy about somebody you 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:44.589 think they're amazing you you really 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.430 care about them and they're in immense 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.030 pain it's like of course you're going to 00:34:50.040 --> 00:34:53.349 do that you know I wanted to make sure 00:34:53.359 --> 00:34:55.550 that 00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:58.430 um I mean we we we traveled together and 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.829 we had experiences and so being able to 00:35:00.839 --> 00:35:02.870 go to that thing and listen to the songs 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.270 and hear the people speak and you speak 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.790 was like it made me feel good to show up 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.829 for you 00:35:11.839 --> 00:35:14.870 and it's um it's only because somebody 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:16.150 showed me how to do that the same as 00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:17.430 somebody said like hey you got to make 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.910 your bed when you like wake up and I'm 00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:20.270 like but why like I'm going to get back 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:21.430 in it later they're like well that's 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.790 just what you do M and I think that the 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:26.150 way that people like us who are like 00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:28.310 gnarly drug addicts and alcoholic 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.470 the way that we build lives that are 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.589 like creating things rather than 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:33.510 destroying it is because somebody goes 00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:35.710 that's just what you do and like we put 00:35:35.720 --> 00:35:37.030 enough of those little that's just what 00:35:37.040 --> 00:35:38.670 you do together and then you learn how 00:35:38.680 --> 00:35:40.510 to like live 00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:42.230 right 00:35:42.240 --> 00:35:45.349 totally 00:35:45.359 --> 00:35:47.589 um I'm going to say something CU I feel 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:51.109 like we're we're going there okay I'm 60 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.910 days back okay yeah I had six years and 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.030 60 days back and that's amazing 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:00.670 that's everyone's reaction and it 00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:04.470 stunned me 00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:09.790 why because I can't let go of 00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.630 the the grief of of losing of feeling 00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:16.910 like I lost what I had but you didn't 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.670 you're you're like it's not a race right 00:36:20.680 --> 00:36:22.990 yeah it's been coming back has been the 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.150 most beautiful thing because everyone 00:36:25.160 --> 00:36:28.309 said welcome that's amazing saying so 00:36:28.319 --> 00:36:30.390 happy you're here just positivity 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.430 positivity positivity yeah and it was 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:37.550 not what I expected really yeah well 00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:38.430 okay 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:40.790 like see to it that your experience 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:44.750 could benefit you and others yeah my 25 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.190 years does not help me it's not going to 00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:50.550 get me a job it's not going to walk into 00:36:50.560 --> 00:36:52.349 a restaurant and get me friends and 00:36:52.359 --> 00:36:54.030 family discount it's not going to make a 00:36:54.040 --> 00:36:57.030 red rope open and get me in a club uh 00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:59.910 and especially room or the the the VIP 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.990 thing that I want as somebody who has 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:04.910 wants and needs and desires and ego and 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.430 thinks he's still special and fights at 00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.750 all the time it's not going to make my 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:11.390 wife think that I'm a good husband it's 00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.190 not going to make my son think I'm a 00:37:13.200 --> 00:37:16.870 good dad it's going to benefit others my 00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:19.829 25 years is only useful if I can help 00:37:19.839 --> 00:37:23.870 somebody else and you're having had six 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:25.870 years and now having 60 days and 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:27.790 building that sober time you your 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.309 experience is going to help others and 00:37:30.319 --> 00:37:32.349 so like what I would say to you since I 00:37:32.359 --> 00:37:35.349 don't personally have um experience with 00:37:35.359 --> 00:37:37.630 the feelings surrounding uh relapse 00:37:37.640 --> 00:37:39.030 unless they've been relayed to me 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:41.510 communicated to me from 00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:45.470 friends if our sole purpose is to stay 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.390 clean and sober and help somebody else 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.230 with the same Affliction then that part 00:37:52.240 --> 00:37:54.829 of your story now is probably going to 00:37:54.839 --> 00:37:56.630 help others and may save somebody else's 00:37:56.640 --> 00:37:58.470 life 00:37:58.480 --> 00:37:59.790 and so I think that the thing that I 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:01.550 would say to you as a friend and like 00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:03.030 somebody who's like trudging the road 00:38:03.040 --> 00:38:04.349 with you is 00:38:04.359 --> 00:38:06.790 like that thing that you're talking 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.829 about of loss or um You didn't say loss 00:38:10.839 --> 00:38:13.829 what did you say you said um grief 00:38:13.839 --> 00:38:18.589 grief um I think

that's connected to 00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:22.190 Ego totally and there's good ego and 00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:23.990 there's bad ego 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.550 right and 00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:30.870 you're if you just focus on how can the 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.829 story of what 00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:37.190 happened and and and what it's like 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:39.829 now you're going to it'll take the focus 00:38:39.839 --> 00:38:42.349 off of you it'll take the grief will go 00:38:42.359 --> 00:38:46.349 away I bet and I bet it'll become like 00:38:46.359 --> 00:38:47.990 how you can help 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.750 others and also like I truly believe 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.150 it's not a race I just said that there 00:38:53.160 --> 00:38:54.470 were times where the only thing keeping 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:56.910 me from well it's not the only thing 00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:58.069 keeping but one of the things that made 00:38:58.079 --> 00:38:59.550 me think about like what would happen if 00:38:59.560 --> 00:39:01.109 I went out was I'd have to raise my hand 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.589 again like yeah that would that would 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.589 not be comfortable that would affect my 00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:08.990 ego but at the same 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.870 time that doesn't really 00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:17.630 matter like I feel like for 00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:20.710 me I just I'm proud of you and I love 00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.309 you and the fact that you're doing this 00:39:23.319 --> 00:39:26.349 is amazing because here's the thing 00:39:26.359 --> 00:39:28.630 like and with the platform that you have 00:39:28.640 --> 00:39:30.910 with this to do it the way you're doing 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.910 it is the realest and most amazing thing 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.750 because there's somebody that I know who 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.870 is a friend who had a very large 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.910 platform about 00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:46.430 recovery and they relapsed this is my 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:47.510 understanding of it because I wasn't 00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:48.670 spending a lot of time with him at the 00:39:48.680 --> 00:39:52.870 time but my understanding is that he was 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.349 self-medicating so it was like a 00:39:55.359 --> 00:39:57.030 slippery slope kind of thing and not 00:39:57.040 --> 00:39:58.470 like you 00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.510 know not like picked up a drink or 00:40:00.520 --> 00:40:02.109 started shooting dope or like it was but 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:03.870 it was like self-medicating for a 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:06.430 legitimate reason and then it slipped 00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:08.550 into something else and he didn't tell 00:40:08.560 --> 00:40:10.750 people and he wasn't honest about it and 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:14.270 because he had the platform that was big 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.790 to talk about recovery I think that the 00:40:16.800 -->

00:40:18.430 guilt and the shame ate away at him and 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:20.270 he ended up dying of an 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.829 overdose and that's what I would say to 00:40:22.839 --> 00:40:25.190 you is the fact you can sit here and be 00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:26.950 honest about it and talk about it and 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.950 say yo 60 days and still have the 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.069 Curiosity to talk about what we suffer 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.190 from and what we recover from and to 00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:39.150 share it with others is amazing and 00:40:39.160 --> 00:40:41.630 that's why I said it's amazing 00:40:41.640 --> 00:40:44.430 because we suffer in silence we die in 00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:46.870 silence we're sick in silence but like 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.990 when we get honest and get real and get 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.150 vulnerable not only do our lives get 00:40:54.160 --> 00:40:56.150 better but someone else is going to have 00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:59.550 their life change for the positive yeah 00:40:59.560 --> 00:41:02.630 thank you 00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:07.589 absolutely and I I judge that zero zero 00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:09.150 everybody comes in with their own 00:41:09.160 --> 00:41:10.870 emotions with their own trauma with 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:12.309 their own history with their own family 00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:15.670 of origin with their own outside stuff 00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:19.069 and you know everyone has some version 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.069 of anxiety or depression or all these 00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:22.950 things and like I don't know what it's 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.470 like to like live in your skin let alone 00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:28.069 my wife or my son or my parents like I 00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.390 just know this and this is uncomfortable 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:33.710 sometimes and some days it's the best 00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:35.390 the last 5 months of my life have been 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.030 the best and also the most 00:41:38.040 --> 00:41:40.150 painful I'm just going to like suit up 00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:41.750 and show up and I just have to do more 00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.150 work in order to get through it you know 00:41:45.160 --> 00:41:46.950 um so I don't know what your 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:48.990 circumstances or situations are or the 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:50.710 feelings surrounding them so I can't 00:41:50.720 --> 00:41:53.829 judge you picking up like that's part of 00:41:53.839 --> 00:41:55.349 your story and that's part of your 00:41:55.359 --> 00:41:58.069 origin story of how you're going to 00:41:58.079 --> 00:41:59.030 help 00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:01.829 others thank 00:42:01.839 --> 00:42:05.589 you one more question okay what does 00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.589 being a comeback kid mean to you and in 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:12.430 what ways are you a comeback kid wow 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:16.430 um what does it mean to me so like

when 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:19.349 I realized that was the name of the Pod 00:42:19.359 --> 00:42:21.309 I was like I don't know am I Come Back 00:42:21.319 --> 00:42:24.750 Kid and then I thought about it and I 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:29.069 was like I got clean pretty 00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:35.950 young 00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:40.030 and I think 00:42:40.040 --> 00:42:42.990 that I think fit like my whole 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:48.390 story exists to show people 00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:51.630 that the lie that I was told growing up 00:42:51.640 --> 00:42:53.349 it to 00:42:53.359 --> 00:42:57.630 be a musician or a poet or an actor or 00:42:57.640 --> 00:43:01.510 painter or writer of 00:43:01.520 --> 00:43:06.309 Great Value importance creativity 00:43:06.319 --> 00:43:09.790 Mystique Legend was you had to be loaded 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:13.630 and you had to like sort of play with 00:43:13.640 --> 00:43:16.069 death up until the very end and either 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:19.390 Escape it or succumb to it and I think 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:21.589 that that's a lie and I think like the 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.190 greatest people that I admired of book 00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:28.990 print film song 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.390 poem and art when I was young those 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.510 people were great and amazing despite 00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:39.390 their addiction not because of it and so 00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:42.750 for me I guess Comeback Kid means that 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:46.549 when I was 16 I got a record deal and I 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.870 was like a really high achieving like oh 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.750 my God this dude's going to like going 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.390 to blow up and all this stuff and I 00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:57.270 didn't really 00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.710 the tools to handle it and I wouldn't 00:43:59.720 --> 00:44:02.349 listen to anybody in a lot of ways I did 00:44:02.359 --> 00:44:03.510 that's how I got there but then I 00:44:03.520 --> 00:44:05.510 stopped listening to people you kind of 00:44:05.520 --> 00:44:08.589 couldn't tell me [ __ ] and my life 00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:12.030 crashed and burned and then the comeback 00:44:12.040 --> 00:44:16.069 is like getting clean and sober at 25 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.390 building a life 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:21.270 inside that was completely different 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.109 than the one I had in my addiction it's 00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:27.430 closer to who I was before I picked up 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:29.309 so the comeback isn't just the fact that 00:44:29.319 --> 00:44:31.790 I built a big life with a family and a 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:34.710 career and helping other people in my in 00:44:34.720 --> 00:44:37.230 career helping other people in recovery 00:44:37.240 --> 00:44:39.270 The Comeback is 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.829 probably while I started to talk about 00:44:41.839 --> 00:44:44.950 it as like The Comeback is like and then 00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:48.030 had another life after that's outside 00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:49.910 [ __ ] the real comeback is that I got to 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.670 be the person that I was before I picked 00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:57.349 up but just with more tools to handle 00:44:57.359 --> 00:45:00.870 life because like getting and staying 00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:05.670 sober and clean isn't hard life is hard 00:45:05.680 --> 00:45:07.790 right I think that life is what makes us 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.190 relapse I think life is what makes us go 00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:12.589 into depressions life is what makes us 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:14.109 isolate 00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:17.670 or for some people check out you know 00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:20.109 like but 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:22.549 like I just I don't know I guess the 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.270 comeback is like twofold it's like one 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.270 that like 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:30.230 I thought that my life was over when I 00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:31.190 was 00:45:31.200 --> 00:45:34.190 25 and it really just started when I was 00:45:34.200 --> 00:45:37.030 20 like when I surrendered to all this 00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:39.309 you know and like I built a life that's 00:45:39.319 --> 00:45:42.630 way more impressive than I had at 16 or 00:45:42.640 --> 00:45:46.270 that I imagined it could be and um sort 00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:48.470 of coming back to like whatever it is 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:49.870 I'm supposed to be and I'm still 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:51.190 figuring that 00:45:51.200 --> 00:45:54.069 out yeah beautiful Justin thank you so 00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:57.230 much thank you yeah this was amazing 00:45:57.240 --> 00:46:00.839 you're the best thank you for having me