บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Collaborative Commons: Building Capacity with Scott Winter

um, I really kind of uh was just applying a lot of uh the you know neuroscience and performance science in working with individuals, working with teams, working with organs. 00:06:08.790 --> 00:06:13.270 I mean, I want people to understand that it's not about psychology as much as it is biology. 00:06:13.509 --> 00:06:17.270 Um you know, our our biology scales, but our personalities don't. 00:06:17.350 --> 00:06:23.270 And so getting people to understand how they work and how um and how I can help you work better. 00:06:23.509 --> 00:06:30.550 So again, if you feel good in your skin when you're working with me and I'm it's good in my skin when I'm working with you, then we just kind of just compound our potential. 00:06:30.710 --> 00:06:44.069 So um just getting people to understand what's kind of behind the curtain so they can uh better uh adjust their strategies to show up when they need to show up in in in the appropriate way, the appropriate time, uh, to make the most make the most difference, I guess. 00:06:44.150 --> 00:06:44.550 Yeah. 00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:45.270 Yeah. 00:06:45.430 --> 00:07:06.389 And and I think a way that people can show up as their best selves and their authentic selves is that um organizations need to have be able to put out a sense of that they have safety there, that they have psychological safety, as you would say, and certainty and perhaps trust and connection and autonomy as you talked about, like a sense of control. 00:07:07.110 --> 00:07:25.750 Um right off the bat, like would you have like if I was the if I was the leader of an organization and I'm tuning into this podcast right now, like what is one thing that I might be able to do within my organization to start to breed that environment where people feel safe and feel some certainty and some trust? 00:07:26.069 --> 00:07:29.750 Well, I I think you know, pardon me, I'm a huge champion of collaboration, right? 00:07:29.830 --> 00:07:31.430 That's what I call the collaborative comments. 00:07:31.670 --> 00:07:37.830 And there's, you know, one of the mantras that I grew up with was, you know, people support what they create, right? 00:07:37.990 --> 00:07:42.150 And so a lot of people are working in environments that they weren't a part of creating, right? 00:07:42.230 --> 00:07:46.310 They're they were kind of they've walked into a process or a system or a culture. 00:07:46.389 --> 00:07:53.110 Uh, they want to see change, they they can see opportunities for change, and then people say, no, no, that's not what we do here. 00:07:53.350 --> 00:08:01.509 Um, and so in in the process work we do organizations, I always say, look, if you're if you're at least if you're 50 feet from the problem, you shouldn't be solving it. 00:08:01.750 --> 00:08:07.509 You should bring the people who are dealing with the problem and ask them what could be better, what could make it better? 00:08:07.670 --> 00:08:11.030 And and you know, again, getting people to come up with their own solutions. 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:12.150 And I've seen it. 00:08:12.230 --> 00:08:25.270 Um, I was working with a copper refinery uh group years ago, and they it was originally where the management was saying to folks, like, these guys are messy, they're slobs, and da-da-da-da-da. 00:08:25.509 --> 00:08:27.110 And and there's all this contention. 00:08:27.189 --> 00:08:29.910 And we just went in there and said, What would it take to clean up the place? 00:08:29.990 --> 00:08:31.750 So they said we need more trash cans. 00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:33.110 Where would you put them? 00:08:33.350 --> 00:08:35.110 Well, we put them here, here, here, and here. 00:08:35.269 --> 00:08:35.990 Great, let's do it. 00:08:36.309 --> 00:08:40.629 We bought some hefty trash cans, they put them where they needed to go or they wanted them to go. 00:08:40.789 --> 00:08:42.629 And within a couple of weeks, it was spotless. 00:08:42.710 --> 00:08:43.909 The refinery was spotless. 00:08:44.069 --> 00:08:46.389 And then the management's like, hey, they have some good ideas. 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:48.230 It's like, yeah, freaking listen to them. 00:08:48.389 --> 00:08:50.309 So, you know, it's not hard. 00:08:50.470 --> 00:08:53.509 I think people, you know, we have to hold people as able. 00:08:53.669 --> 00:09:03.350 And and again, if people are frustrated, just kind of understand where that's frustrating, because frustration is misguided passion and complaints are just commitments hidden, you know. 00:09:03.429 --> 00:09:07.029 So we just got to tap in to really listen to what's really going on. 00:09:07.189 --> 00:09:17.750 And I think a lot of leaders out there think that they have to have all the answers, but hopefully you've done a good job of hiring the right people who want to do the work because they've come to you because they they like your company. 00:09:17.830 --> 00:09:20.230 So get out of the way and let them do their job. 00:09:20.309 --> 00:09:21.269 So nice. 00:09:21.430 --> 00:09:22.310 Yeah, I love that. 00:09:22.470 --> 00:09:34.070 I think um I remember I'm reflecting back to my time working with uh in naval special operations, and and one of the most dangerous phrases that gets thrown around was like, we've always done it that way, but we've always done it that way. 00:09:34.230 --> 00:09:48.070 And I remember there was a time of like the old guard that was in charge, and then the young bucks coming in, and we had a point where we where we took all the standard operating procedures and really looked at them and said, Hey, is there a better way to be doing this? 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:51.430 Is there a way for us to work smarter rather than harder? 00:09:51.669 --> 00:09:56.629 And we designed some things that are still in play to this day of like really simple stuff. 00:09:56.789 --> 00:10:07.830 Like we had, like, I don't know, one of the examples like you had this giant fuel blivet that we used to like fuel the boats from, and it oh, and then we

had to recover it, and it was such a pain in the ass to get this thing up onto the boat. 00:10:07.909 --> 00:10:09.190 It was so heavy and such. 00:10:09.350 --> 00:10:13.350 And and then someone was like, Hey, why don't we inflate it? 00:10:14.389 --> 00:10:16.470 Like, we sucked all the fuel out of it. 00:10:16.550 --> 00:10:19.509 Do we have a way that we could put air back into it? 00:10:19.830 --> 00:10:24.710 And we're like, Yeah, actually, we have these tanks, but the tanks are meant for this thing. 00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:34.629 You're like, Whoa, maybe we could use the tanks also for this, and then people were like, Yeah, but we've always done it this other way, and then it was like, that was I was like, that's dangerous. 00:10:34.789 --> 00:10:39.110 That term of we've always done it this way is one of the most dangerous terms, I think, out there. 00:10:39.430 --> 00:10:46.230 So I was glad to be in a position where naval special warfare, they're more open-minded and thinking outside the box and taking on ideas. 00:10:46.310 --> 00:10:52.310 And you're right, like once we came up with that stuff, we were passionate about it because we owned it, we had ownership of it, you know. 00:10:52.550 --> 00:11:00.310 And not only that, because you were probably at a level where your influence and your peers, they they're like, hey, if they're doing it, we should do it. 00:11:00.389 --> 00:11:03.909 And they're not hearing it from their boss, they're hearing it from you know their their colleagues. 00:11:04.070 --> 00:11:05.750 So um it makes a difference. 00:11:05.909 --> 00:11:08.550 I mean, I mean, I study that was part of my study. 00:11:08.629 --> 00:11:15.909 I studied social cognitive neuroscience, and you know, our are we are social creatures, and I think we underestimate the power of social. 00:11:16.149 --> 00:11:20.389 So if if if a team is working together on a problem and they solve together, they're committed. 00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:22.070 Um, I mean, you can move mountains. 00:11:22.149 --> 00:11:25.350 I mean, that's when I mean the I mean you know, we talk about flow and things like that. 00:11:25.509 --> 00:11:28.389 The most most potent state of flow is group flow, right? 00:11:28.550 --> 00:11:38.310 So why aren't we really tapping into getting people to be focused on where they want to go and then give them the reins to figure out how to get there? 00:11:38.389 --> 00:11:44.789 I mean, you can create criteria, like it without this, you know, it can't exceed this budget, it has to think about these are the constraints. 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:48.230 Uh, and within the constraints that we're given, how can we make this happen? 00:11:48.310 --> 00:11:50.710 And miracles start to happen pretty quickly. 00:11:50.950 --> 00:11:57.430 Yeah, yeah, innovation is not creating new things, it's just repurposing what we have for you know, new things. 00:11:57.509 --> 00:11:58.389 So it's I don't know. 00:11:58.470 --> 00:12:00.870 I I get really fired up when people say that can't be done. 00:12:00.950 --> 00:12:03.029 And I'm like, Yeah, let's figure it out. 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:05.350 So love it, yeah. 00:12:05.669 --> 00:12:17.110 Something we talked about that really stayed with me too was as you were talking about with group flow, is that energy, that energy that people tap into um in the wake of disasters? 00:12:17.590 --> 00:12:20.870 And I know you've been involved in a lot of that type of stuff. 00:12:21.029 --> 00:12:33.110 But when we have this like shared sense of humanity and we and we drop our egos drop down and we drop down roles and we just show up for each other and we have this group purpose that we're driving towards. 00:12:33.430 --> 00:12:40.950 But how can teams access that same type of energy without having to have a disaster? 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.269 Like, do we need the disaster to tap into that? 00:12:43.430 --> 00:12:45.669 Do we need that disaster to happen and then we tap into it? 00:12:45.830 --> 00:12:49.269 Or can how can we find that without the disaster? 00:12:49.590 --> 00:12:51.269 But I mean, I think it's a great question. 00:12:51.430 --> 00:12:55.830 I mean, that's part of as you and I were talking a few weeks back, you know, the work I do here. 00:12:55.990 --> 00:13:02.149 Uh so for those of you who don't know me, which is probably all of you, um, you know, I live in Chico, California. 00:13:02.310 --> 00:13:07.669 Uh back in 2018, we had the campfire, which destroyed the town of paradise. 00:13:07.750 --> 00:13:10.789 Uh, 30,000 people were displaced literally overnight. 00:13:10.950 --> 00:13:20.629 Um, and something magical happened, you know, after that, that when that fire, when the start started to come out, people just started to figure out like, what can we do to help, right? 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:24.470 First of all, there's just an influx of people wanting to figure something out. 00:13:24.550 --> 00:13:27.830 And I know for me, it was the next day I just felt helpless. 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:30.950 And then I just gave everything that I owned away because we just sold our house. 00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:33.190 But I wanted to be of service, right? 00:13:34.230 --> 00:13:43.110 But I think part of what happens, and you know, the more I've done research in disasters, that you know, 95% of the people who are saved in a disaster are saved from a stranger. 00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:45.590 Like it's not EMS that comes to the rescue first. 00:13:45.669 --> 00:13:47.110 They're not first people on scene. 00:13:47.590 --> 00:13:50.789 First people on scene are the people around you when the disaster occurs. 00:13:50.950 --> 00:13:54.629 And then it once they get out of the shock, they realize something needs to be done. 00:13:54.710 --> 00:14:02.389 And I think this is where the biological stuff kicks in, neurobiological is like my survival is predicated in my ability to make you survive. 00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:03.669 You know, my odds

go up. 00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:12.230 So it's very, I think it's very uh um, you know, innate in our in our in our beings to show up for people in a in a crisis. 00:14:12.470 --> 00:14:23.350 Um and so that sense of uh you know, the brain and being social and needing to connect and having that ability to cope better together with people definitely shows up after disasters. 00:14:23.509 --> 00:14:44.310 Um I was just down in Southern California uh yesterday doing a uh convening for people from who've been impacted by the uh uh Altadena and the um uh Palisades fires down there and and working with a lot of community groups that work with the most vulnerable populations and really getting them to think about how do we show up before a disaster at the same level. 00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:54.149 And and what my focus was, it was really about trust, like building trusted neighbors, getting to know your neighbor, um, you know, getting to know other people that you may not communicate. 00:14:54.310 --> 00:14:58.230 So we're like hosting block parties, getting people to connect again socially. 00:14:58.389 --> 00:15:00.149 And and the findings are really fascinating. 00:15:00.310 --> 00:15:08.789 When you connect socially, when you have those strong connections, again, you respond to and recover more quickly from disasters because of relationship. 00:15:08.950 --> 00:15:11.430 And so um I I don't know. 00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:28.070 I that's so that's my mission is to figure out how to tap into the humanity before the disasters, and it's it's one conversation at a time, it's one relationship at a time, it's uh you know, one cup of coffee with another person at a time, uh, but then that person is inspired, and maybe they bring more people under the tent. 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:31.350 Um, because that's I mean, there's just more and more disasters happening. 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:37.830 The the last slide that I showed my presentation is I I look at the trends and disasters rate. 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:45.029 Um, like it from 1980, 89, um, we had average what 3.7 disasters, you know, a year. 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:49.110 Um, last year we had 27 multi, you know, billion dollar disasters. 00:15:49.269 --> 00:15:53.590 Um, and just this year, you know, LA fires, you know, ton of money. 00:15:53.750 --> 00:15:56.070 What just happened in Texas a few weeks ago. 00:15:56.230 --> 00:16:00.230 Um, it's just we have to get our shit together in that space. 00:16:00.389 --> 00:16:07.110 Um, and and we do that through community and we do that through, you know, trust and and that's that moving towards thing. 00:16:07.190 --> 00:16:11.509 You know, I don't want to create, I keep saying it's not about creating a fear based, it's creating a focus. 00:16:11.669 --> 00:16:13.430 Like we we can really persevere. 00:16:13.509 --> 00:16:22.550 We're very resilient as human beings, and so we need to focus on the future state that we want to create, knowing that it's gonna still gonna be hard, it's gonna be challenging. 00:16:22.789 --> 00:16:34.789 So, how I show up um as a person in those rooms to kind of engage people that may be a little bit a little trepidation or maybe not even have the resources, but get them to believe again in themselves. 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:36.950 Um, they've demonstrated resilience. 00:16:37.110 --> 00:16:40.149 Uh their communities have demonstrated resilience. 00:16:40.230 --> 00:16:42.789 Um, so let's not lose sight of it, let's just keep building upon it. 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:44.950 So that's that's been kind of the work I've been doing. 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:46.070 Um, yeah. 00:16:46.310 --> 00:16:47.029 It's my mission. 00:16:47.110 --> 00:16:48.550 I don't want to have to work anymore. 00:16:48.629 --> 00:16:50.870 I just want to volunteer and and do this kind of stuff. 00:16:51.430 --> 00:16:52.470 That's my that's my dream. 00:16:52.550 --> 00:16:56.230 So yeah, and and we were talking a little bit about it. 00:16:56.310 --> 00:17:02.550 Um, the work you're doing with paradise and the aura rings and resilience and such uh prior to hitting record. 00:17:02.710 --> 00:17:04.789 Uh, would you like to share some about that? 00:17:04.950 --> 00:17:07.190 Like how we're bringing resilience up? 00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:08.149 Sure, sure. 00:17:08.389 --> 00:17:23.190 So um so after the campfire, I I I got involved doing um this community resiliency program, and it was a group of us that would sit down with people who were uh survivors of the of the of the fire. 00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:35.269 And we had two women, for example, they're actually making a movie with Matthew McConaughey is coming out where he's a bus driver on a it was, you know, that was these two women in that story, uh really harrowing, terrible. 00:17:35.349 --> 00:17:36.710 They had 22 kids on a bus. 00:17:36.869 --> 00:17:45.589 So they were in one of my classes, they were talking about their experience, you know, just everyone shared, but we're teaching them how to kind of um, you know, that trauma-informed type of coaching. 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:55.109 Um, but but the people themselves that have been in the city or the town of paradise rebuilding are, you know, they've just been going on and all the social workers were burning out. 00:17:55.189 --> 00:18:02.309 I mean, just everyone just got full into it, but it's it's kind of one of the things that they they weren't putting the oxygen mask on themselves, right? 00:18:02.469 --> 00:18:04.469 So burning out and all this other stuff. 00:18:04.629 --> 00:18:08.869 So a few weeks ago, a few months ago, actually, I was called and to to work with them. 00:18:09.109 --> 00:18:12.949 And um we uh I've been working with the Resiliency Institute. 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:16.389 We have this assessment I was sharing with you um to get a kind of baseline. 00:18:16.469 --> 00:18:20.389 And so they get their own scores, but we get an uh aggregate of what the team score looks like.

00:18:20.549 --> 00:18:25.589 And then uh the town manager invested in giving them aura rings to do biofeedback. 00:18:25.829 --> 00:18:32.949 And um and so from just a three-month period, their team resiliency score increased pretty, pretty significantly. 00:18:33.029 --> 00:18:50.549 Uh, and the and the beautiful thing about that is that you know they're noticing that they have a little bit more control, they feel like they have the ability to recover through the course of their day, you know, they're they're building new rituals into their into their lives so that they can um bounce back uh and and be more re more resilient. 00:18:50.629 --> 00:18:55.029 We call it, they don't really like the word resilient because it was like paradise resilient, paradise strong. 00:18:55.189 --> 00:18:59.429 Um, I'm finding resiliency as a trigger word for people, so it's about well-being now. 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:10.069 Um but it I think what it's given them is that the oar rings and being aware of the baseline of where they are, they have a clear set of where they want to be and how they want to be. 00:19:10.229 --> 00:19:26.549 Um, and then the tools that we give them are just basic practices, like you know, uh do a two-minute breath practice, you know, go out and walk, do a shift and stay, do you know, do some resourcing, go to your happy place, simple things to get on board so they could get back into the arena and get back into the game. 00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:41.829 Um and one of the employees was talking about how how different it is engaging with the community, the community members, that because he's more aware, he's better prepared to deal with people who may not be as aware so he can calm them down, right? 00:19:41.990 --> 00:19:44.709 And that's some of you know Ellen Langer's work about mindfulness. 00:19:44.789 --> 00:19:56.949 Like the more mindful I am, um I probably am demonstrating uh out to you that I'm not a threat to you, and you come in threatened, I can help you down regulate just by the state that I hold. 00:19:57.029 --> 00:20:02.469 And so um there's some cool stuff happening, and I think there's there's more potential in that. 00:20:02.709 --> 00:20:15.990 Um, but I think we're at a right now with everything going on like in LA, you know, with all the stuff happening with migrant the immigrants, and uh there's a lot of fear and a lot of anger and a lot of eat with the fire, the trauma. 00:20:16.149 --> 00:20:27.829 Um, it's been just fascinating to be down there for a couple days and um hearing their experiences, you know, but because we still got to be prepared for disasters, we still work in communities, but there's a lot of people that are now just too afraid to reach out. 00:20:27.909 --> 00:20:29.909 So there's some there's some definite obstacles in the way. 00:20:29.990 --> 00:20:33.909 Um, but we cannot survive without connecting and and working together. 00:20:34.069 --> 00:20:37.029 I don't care, like I don't care where

you come from, man. 00:20:37.109 --> 00:20:39.509 If you're there to help me, I'm I'm I'm all for it. 00:20:39.589 --> 00:20:43.509 So it's like I better set those bridges earlier rather than later. 00:20:43.829 --> 00:20:44.069 Right. 00:20:44.229 --> 00:20:45.829 I agree 110. 00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:57.750 And you know, something that I did when I came into my new neighborhood here where I currently live that I've never done before, and I'm so grateful for my wife for encouraging me to do it. 00:20:58.069 --> 00:21:03.509 Was we bought little like just little tokens of like little gifts and such. 00:21:03.669 --> 00:21:12.709 And we went down up and down our street and we visited every house and we and we got brave and we rang the doorbell, ding dong, and they're like, What do you want? 00:21:13.029 --> 00:21:15.269 We're like, Oh, we're we live down the road now. 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:19.509 We moved in, we just want to introduce ourselves and present you with a little little gift. 00:21:19.750 --> 00:21:26.149 And now that's turned into all of my all of the neighbors on this street. 00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:30.709 We all exchange uh presents around uh Christmas and New Year's. 00:21:31.029 --> 00:21:43.189 And I actually have a it's not here, but I have a little like one of my favorite ones was this little wooden stool that somebody made that is like the perfect height to sit and meditate on, and it's handcrafted. 00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:45.029 Uh yeah, that they gave me. 00:21:45.189 --> 00:21:48.309 And they own a they own a shop where they make wooden furniture. 00:21:48.469 --> 00:21:48.709 Yeah. 00:21:48.949 --> 00:21:56.309 So I you so one of the things I I back in the day I used to used to do a lot of ropes courses and team building events and stuff, right? 00:21:56.629 --> 00:22:02.149 And um what was interesting about those experiences that we we we do an exercise called you go first. 00:22:02.389 --> 00:22:07.589 And and and it what you your story just reminded me of that sense of not playing you go first. 00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:08.789 You're actually playing going first. 00:22:08.949 --> 00:22:16.469 And so when we talk about you go first, it's like you know, you and me are sitting facing each other, and then I say you go first, and then you say no, you go first. 00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:18.629 We just keep pointing to each other, saying, You go first. 00:22:18.869 --> 00:22:19.990 No, we're literally yelling at each other. 00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:21.349 It only takes a few seconds, really. 00:22:21.429 --> 00:22:22.869 People start yelling really quick. 00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:24.549 You can't touch, you can't spit. 00:22:24.629 --> 00:22:26.309 Um, and then we have them pause, they stop. 00:22:26.469 --> 00:22:27.990 I'm thinking now, how does you go show? 00:22:28.149 --> 00:22:30.149 How does you how does you go first show up? 00:22:30.389 --> 00:22:34.069 And um, people are like, uh, they don't they're not really kind of getting it,

right? 00:22:34.229 --> 00:22:37.990 And I and then I'll I'll say, okay, Chris, walk by me as you would a stranger on the street. 00:22:38.149 --> 00:22:39.829 We walk by each other, we don't say anything, right? 00:22:39.909 --> 00:22:41.109 I'm like, we just played it. 00:22:41.189 --> 00:22:47.589 We just played you go first, and then we slow it down and go, okay, at the point where our shoulders are crossing. 00:22:47.669 --> 00:22:50.469 That's that choice point where am I gonna say hi to you? 00:22:50.629 --> 00:22:53.509 Or am I gonna say, no, you guys hired me before I say hi to you, right? 00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:55.109 Or am I gonna trust you? 00:22:55.349 --> 00:22:57.109 You know, I'm not gonna trust you until you trust me. 00:22:57.189 --> 00:23:01.750 I'm not gonna work harder until you give me recognition, I'm not gonna put myself out there and tell it safe. 00:23:01.829 --> 00:23:04.469 You know, it's like we play this game called you go first, right? 00:23:04.629 --> 00:23:11.750 And and what demonstrated is the power of going first, which is exactly, I think that's part of the formula of humanity. 00:23:11.909 --> 00:23:16.789 Like you see somebody, I see I see unhoused people all the time, and I see them and I say, I see you. 00:23:16.869 --> 00:23:20.869 Even if they ask for money and I don't give anything, I say, Hey, I don't have any, but how are you doing? 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:24.389 I see you, you know, and it's like we know that they're human, right? 00:23:24.469 --> 00:23:37.669 And and so um I there's just something to it, and I I'm I'm definitely maybe it's because I'm getting older and closer, closer to the to heaven, but I'm I'm much more um attuned to just noticing just the power of what it takes. 00:23:37.750 --> 00:23:40.549 Just a good morning could be huge for somebody right now, you know. 00:23:40.629 --> 00:23:43.429 So absolutely, yeah, yeah, really cool, man. 00:23:43.750 --> 00:23:44.309 Going first. 00:23:44.469 --> 00:23:45.109 That was awesome. 00:23:45.269 --> 00:23:46.469 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:23:46.629 --> 00:23:48.789 Yeah, it's it's made a big difference. 00:23:48.949 --> 00:23:57.509 And uh yeah, I I consistently go first when I think about I've even like put it on my like list of like intentions, like when I'm leaving the house. 00:23:57.669 --> 00:24:03.829 I'm like, I'm going to like try to connect in some way to everyone I run into today in my travels. 00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:06.709 And like you said, like that of like, how are you doing? 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:10.869 And to me, it's not just like this casual phrase of like hello or what's up or anything. 00:24:10.949 --> 00:24:12.869 I'm like, no, like really, like, how are you doing? 00:24:12.949 --> 00:24:14.149 Or are you are you good? 00:24:14.309 --> 00:24:14.949 You know, yeah. 00:24:15.109 --> 00:24:25.509 Like I used to um practice going to the grocery store, and when I'm looking at the checkout lines, I'm not actually looking at

like what is the shortest line and my quickest way out of here. 00:24:25.669 --> 00:24:28.869 I'm looking to see which cashier looks the most miserable. 00:24:29.029 --> 00:24:39.189 And I'm gonna go to them and I'm gonna try to express some loving kindness toward them because they're like my uh, how did it how does it resonate? 00:24:39.269 --> 00:24:43.589 Because again, that you doing that for that person, all of a sudden now they're kinder to the next 20 people, right? 00:24:43.750 --> 00:24:47.669 And then and then there was that movie that was built years ago. 00:24:47.909 --> 00:24:56.229 It was like based in Austin, Texas, where it just followed a person from one person to another person, and it just kind of shifted the impact of how we could have on each other. 00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:58.709 I forget the name of it, but it was really brilliantly done. 00:24:58.869 --> 00:25:07.269 And so I I just wonder like, do you ever think about it's not not that you're doing it for any reason other than just being kind, right? 00:25:07.429 --> 00:25:10.549 But you I think it's like what's the ripple effect of that, right? 00:25:10.709 --> 00:25:12.389 Yeah, the reverberations. 00:25:12.629 --> 00:25:13.349 Yeah, yeah. 00:25:13.589 --> 00:25:36.709 I had a meditation that um I produced and put out to the world that talked about that, that talked about like um being grateful for our mentors and what they did for us and and how they influenced our actions and our decisions in life, and and then how those actions and decisions reverberated to the next person and what that may have done to reverberate to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next. 00:25:37.109 --> 00:25:54.389 And next thing you know, like you know, your the your favorite teacher in middle school has like influenced you, and your that influence has gone around the world through one person's belief in you or one person's kind action when it seemed like nobody was there for you, or something of that nature, you know. 00:25:55.189 --> 00:25:55.349 Yeah. 00:25:55.909 --> 00:26:04.789 Well, that I mean that that story resonates because I mean, it was I I think I was on a trajectory at a very young age where I got in a fight my freshman year of high school, right? 00:26:05.189 --> 00:26:07.269 Um smoking pot in fifth grade. 00:26:07.349 --> 00:26:08.389 I was doing stupid shit. 00:26:08.789 --> 00:26:16.469 And um I went to a small school and my vice principal, I so the principal came around as I'm slamming this kid's head in the locker, right? 00:26:16.789 --> 00:26:20.229 And uh I was small, I was like mean and angry. 00:26:20.469 --> 00:26:25.429 And uh I get sent to the vice principal's office, and uh his name was Mr. 00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:29.829 Beckett, and he basically gave me one of those speeches, like, Mr. 00:26:29.990 --> 00:26:34.389 Winter, I see more than you and you than you see in yourself, and blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:26:34.549 --> 00:26:41.509 So my punishment was I had to get 50 signatures to get into this student leadership class that was just getting started, right? 00:26:41.669 --> 00:26:46.629 One of the commissioner of boys' activities quit, and he's like, Hey, here's your punishment. 00:26:46.709 --> 00:26:54.789 Oh, and by the way, you gotta you're I'm gonna take you out of school um for a couple in a couple days, we're gonna go to a leadership conference in in you know, in a city a couple hours away. 00:26:54.949 --> 00:26:56.069 I'm like, Yeah, whatever. 00:26:56.229 --> 00:26:58.149 Um, it was better than being expelled. 00:26:58.309 --> 00:27:12.389 But that that moment, that that that moment in time was a defining moment for my entire life because I I go to this leadership conference, and when you were young, the girl to guy ratio in leadership conferences was like 40 to one. 00:27:12.469 --> 00:27:13.269 So it was like awesome. 00:27:13.349 --> 00:27:18.069 I was like, it was beautiful girls, and I was young and just a just a stupid high school kid. 00:27:18.229 --> 00:27:26.629 But I got to go to all these leadership conferences, and so I met my wife, you know, I've traveled the world, um, all from that one intervention, right? 00:27:26.709 --> 00:27:27.829 Just that one thing. 00:27:28.069 --> 00:27:30.069 And I I don't know where I'd be. 00:27:30.149 --> 00:27:35.589 He actually was killed my sophomore year of high school, and um and so I still think to this day, like, what would Mr. 00:27:35.669 --> 00:27:36.549 Beckett think? 00:27:36.629 --> 00:27:37.750 You know, what would Mr. 00:27:37.909 --> 00:27:38.949 Beckett want me to do? 00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:45.189 So that to your point, that legacy of that one intervention that you did for that that you know, that cashier. 00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:59.990 You you just never know that you might you might have saved her life or his life, or she was having a bad day, and you just and all of a sudden they made a different choice, and there's a result of that different choice, you know, it goes back to that that one degree could be the the the shift in the universe, you know. 00:28:00.069 --> 00:28:01.189 So I don't know right. 00:28:01.669 --> 00:28:02.629 Yeah, I love it. 00:28:02.709 --> 00:28:03.990 What would Beckett do? 00:28:04.149 --> 00:28:05.990 I don't want to be a bracelet. 00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:17.349 I well, it's so interesting because when he when he passed, he had a he had three young kids, one was uh just a relatively like six month-old, and we all wrote letters, wrote letters about the impact their dad had on our lives. 00:28:17.509 --> 00:28:19.990 And his youngest son reached out to me a few weeks ago. 00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:26.149 Um, hey, I want to talk to you because they read our they read our notes and uh yeah, I want to talk to you, I want to get to know you. 00:28:26.309 --> 00:28:28.549 So it was it's it circles back, you know. 00:28:28.629 --> 00:28:29.829 So that's amazing. 00:28:30.149 --> 00:28:32.229 It's huge, but

that's that's I think that's why I'm here. 00:28:32.309 --> 00:28:33.829 It's what I do, why I do. 00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:44.149 Um, and it's all because of that that one sliver moment of getting caught in a fight, sexy vice president officer, and going into my punishment was investing in me. 00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:45.109 So it was huge. 00:28:46.149 --> 00:28:47.429 That's amazing, man. 00:28:47.589 --> 00:28:49.269 What a great story that is. 00:28:49.509 --> 00:28:54.469 And uh, I can't help but I keep reflecting back that you said you were smoking dope in fifth grade. 00:28:54.869 --> 00:28:55.269 Oh, yeah. 00:28:55.990 --> 00:28:58.069 Yeah, and I'm like, I can relate to that. 00:28:58.229 --> 00:29:10.869 I I I started drinking and smoking dope when I was like 11 years old, and now I have a a a 12-year-old daughter, and I can't imagine that she's like, how the hell did that happen? 00:29:11.109 --> 00:29:25.189 Um, but you know, everything happens for a reason, and although I'm not exactly proud of my two and a half decades of of substance and alcohol use disorder, you know, it it set the foundation for where I am today. 00:29:25.269 --> 00:29:26.469 So exactly. 00:29:26.549 --> 00:29:27.909 I mean, I I'm not looking back. 00:29:28.069 --> 00:29:32.949 I mean, I definitely use the lessons um from those experiences. 00:29:33.109 --> 00:29:39.429 You know, I I I had a, you know, because of the journey I've been on, I've been uh exposed to really amazing people. 00:29:39.589 --> 00:29:43.509 And there is uh there's a guy, uh, what's his name? 00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:52.069 He he um he does a lot of stuff out there now, or he used to, he's an older gentleman now, but um, he's just talking about uh he wrote a book called Unpack Your Bags, right? 00:29:52.229 --> 00:29:58.229 And and it kind of struck me time kind of the metaphor is like, you know, how many of us have baggage in our life, right? 00:29:58.469 --> 00:30:00.469 We and everyone can say I have some baggage. 00:30:00.629 --> 00:30:10.389 And and and and so the the metaphor that at least what rung in my mind is like how often do you go on a trip where you pack your bags with shit you never need? 00:30:10.469 --> 00:30:11.829 Like, I'll read War and Peace, you know. 00:30:11.990 --> 00:30:21.509 So you carry extra 20 pounds on your fucking luggage, and um and all of a sudden I realized, Jesus man, I I'm I'm carrying a lot of weight from my past. 00:30:22.229 --> 00:30:28.389 And and so instead of like carrying it, it's like, how can I rearrange my luggage, my baggage so that it's of service to me, right? 00:30:28.549 --> 00:30:32.549 So, you know, that the 20 years that you went through, like, how is that of service to you now? 00:30:32.869 --> 00:30:34.949 Because you got you got through it, right? 00:30:35.109 --> 00:30:40.789 And and so that's and that's what I when I'm working with folks who have been, you know, in a traumatic experience. 00:30:40.869 --> 00:30:43.750 I mean, it really depends because it doesn't work for everybody. 00:30:43.829 --> 00:30:48.949 I mean, people have different degrees of um, you know, disorders and challenges, and it's chemical and it. 00:30:49.429 --> 00:30:50.389 Could be some brain damage. 00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:51.909 I mean, who knows, right? 00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:52.229 Right. 00:30:52.389 --> 00:30:54.549 But to hold space for people, right? 00:30:54.629 --> 00:30:58.229 Just to hold space for them and hear stories. 00:30:58.469 --> 00:31:02.309 And I I remember one person I that was complaining. 00:31:02.389 --> 00:31:09.109 I said, sounds like you have had an amazing life, and you've demonstrated just how tough you are. 00:31:09.669 --> 00:31:17.029 And they paused because they never thought that what they were describing was showing their own character of being tough and resilient. 00:31:17.109 --> 00:31:19.990 They just thought it was a you know a scarlet letter. 00:31:20.149 --> 00:31:27.109 It's like demonstrated perseverance of being abused and this and this and this, and you're still here. 00:31:27.589 --> 00:31:28.469 Right, right. 00:31:28.869 --> 00:31:36.069 Yeah, for me, I I I'm able to look back on and accept it and know that everything happened the way it had to happen. 00:31:36.309 --> 00:31:43.829 And it and it even the pain and such, like it's very unfortunate, but pain is the touchstone of growth, you know? 00:31:44.149 --> 00:31:53.429 And I had to go through what I had to go through in order to become softened up enough that I was now moldable because I was very strong-willed. 00:31:53.750 --> 00:32:01.509 And I was also as miserable as my life was for 20 about 25 years of alcohol use disorder. 00:32:01.750 --> 00:32:03.909 Um it was still comfortable. 00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:07.189 Like there was comfortable in as it was familiar. 00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:10.149 It was familiar, it was miserable, but it was familiar. 00:32:10.309 --> 00:32:17.750 So I was more frightened by like what's on the other side of sobering up and what's on the on the other side of people who be like, oh, you could be happy, joyous, and free. 00:32:17.829 --> 00:32:19.509 I'm like, that terrifies me. 00:32:19.589 --> 00:32:22.149 I've I've never felt happy, joyous, and free. 00:32:22.469 --> 00:32:27.909 Only oh, when only when you're using, or at least the the the perception of it, right? 00:32:27.990 --> 00:32:30.229 Because they're you know, I totally relate to that. 00:32:30.709 --> 00:32:37.669 Yeah, it's not it's not really it's uh to me, it's always been about the anticipation of what it was gonna do for me. 00:32:37.750 --> 00:33:13.129 Like I thought, like, because and it never really worked. 00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:27.450 It it and I think I I credit this to I believe it's Dave Smith who said this with Dave Smith Dharma, and he's in recovery and he and he any and he and he practices uh Buddhism and he and he talks about the Dharma. 00:33:27.609 --> 00:33:41.690 Um, but he said,

you know, the problem with um drugs and alcohol is that it never worked to do what I needed it to do, but it almost worked every single time. 00:33:43.049 --> 00:33:44.169 That's why it kept coming back. 00:33:44.569 --> 00:33:45.930 I was so close, man. 00:33:48.329 --> 00:33:58.490 I remember when I so it's I it's interesting because when I was in college, I worked for alcohol and drug services and I was doing youth prevention work and I worked in Juki helping kids, doing genograms and stuff like that. 00:33:58.649 --> 00:34:03.210 And um and I I I would always kind of reflect on this idea. 00:34:03.289 --> 00:34:20.569 And I I went to a workshop, I don't know if it was um you know research-based, but it was some guy's theory that you know, just like we have the need for sex and to eat, we and you know, all these drives that we have, we also have a need for a higher state of consciousness, like that was his thing, right? 00:34:20.730 --> 00:34:25.929 This pursuit of like getting high, like you see it in dolphins in the wild when they're eating some of that stuff. 00:34:26.169 --> 00:34:33.529 There's something there that we want to pursue to tap into something, you know, like the the the Kool-Aid experiment, all those kind of things. 00:34:33.609 --> 00:34:41.369 But I I I wonder, but that but that's you know, I honestly, because I started from you know, in my own transition, I started doing endurance running. 00:34:41.450 --> 00:34:42.809 I started, I was a distance runner. 00:34:42.889 --> 00:34:45.369 I went to the junior mile and eight eighty. 00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:53.210 So I went from you know, doing chemicals from the outside into the the the you know, the runners high inside out. 00:34:53.289 --> 00:35:00.010 I mean, I I have been just loaded um after a good 20-mile run and be like, man, there's nothing that can beat this. 00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:07.130 Um, I still drink once in a while, but I I really moved away from um the harder stuff when I found running. 00:35:07.289 --> 00:35:13.289 Yeah, part of it I ran young too because I didn't like to be home, and so I would just run all the time to be not going to the house. 00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:17.130 Um, and so I loved running. 00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:18.409 That was my thing. 00:35:18.490 --> 00:35:23.369 And anything distance, endurance was was like my that was it was an insight. 00:35:23.450 --> 00:35:27.130 It was like that was my I tapped into my own medicine cabinet doing that kind of stuff, you know. 00:35:27.210 --> 00:35:29.370 And it was getting high on your own supply. 00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:30.010 Exactly. 00:35:30.090 --> 00:35:30.650 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:30.970 --> 00:35:34.490 And then of course, you know, you have a challenge like, okay, how can I how can I get through this? 00:35:34.570 --> 00:35:44.490 And we were doing everything from like ultra runs to riding ties to endurance rides on bicycles and endurance swims and starting into traplons, and this is when traplons started to build out of stuff. 00:35:44.570 --> 00:36:04.650 So uh I just wish I knew all the training tools that we know now because it used to be just carbo load and Draco Sierra Nevada and go run, you know, a marathon the next day, and it's like all the worst things you we used to do, thinking it was you know, carbo load before the big big race and big run, and and you're just like, oh anyway. 00:36:04.970 --> 00:36:05.690 Yeah, yeah. 00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:16.090 I relate to that, like um running saves my bacon as well, like it it helps me um stay in sobriety and stay in recovery. 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:23.530 Um, so I started long distance running a decade ago, and I was eight years sober at the time. 00:36:23.769 --> 00:36:33.690 I was still in the Navy, and I was on a deployment, but my deployment was off the coast of California, so I was on a little island called San Clemente Island. 00:36:33.850 --> 00:36:34.810 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:36:34.970 --> 00:36:35.210 Yeah. 00:36:35.370 --> 00:36:44.570 So on San Clemente is um, I'm pretty sure it's a still this is the only active quarry in the United States military, and it's run by U.S. 00:36:44.650 --> 00:36:45.769 Navy seabees. 00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:51.690 And we literally take big rocks and make them into little rocks, and that's what we do out there. 00:36:51.769 --> 00:37:03.130 And San Clemente, probably two-thirds of the island is also an active bombing range where they would go uh ship to shore, bombs off the big ships, landing, boom, boom, boom. 00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:07.930 So like literally the island would shake, you know, as you're trying to sleep in the barracks. 00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:14.410 And uh, I was out there for seven months, and I was the only one out there that didn't drink. 00:37:14.570 --> 00:37:19.850 And everybody would work hard all day, and then they would get done with work and they would drink and they would fish. 00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:24.810 And I had no interest in either one of those, and I was like, I've got to do something, man. 00:37:24.970 --> 00:37:28.650 Or I'm like a drink started looking a lot better. 00:37:28.890 --> 00:37:30.410 So I said, nope. 00:37:30.810 --> 00:37:47.210 I watched a film, excuse me, called Western Time by Billy Yang, and it was about the Western States 100 and Sally McCrae, and I was intrigued, like, oh my god, people run a hundred miles like at once, like in one stretch. 00:37:47.370 --> 00:37:48.330 Like, this is amazing. 00:37:48.570 --> 00:37:53.530 So I ordered some running shoes, I ordered a water bottle and a little bit of nutrition, and I didn't know what I was doing either. 00:37:53.690 --> 00:38:07.450 And I trained like for like seven months, I trained for a marathon, and then I got off that island and I went up to um San Francisco and in the Marin Headlands, there was a race called the Golden Gate Marathon. 00:38:07.530 --> 00:38:09.130 It was my first trail marathon. 00:38:09.289 --> 00:38:10.890 I ran it and I got

fourth place. 00:38:11.130 --> 00:38:13.690 I was like, holy cow, I might be actually pretty good at this. 00:38:13.930 --> 00:38:16.330 And then I was just intrigued and I loved it. 00:38:16.410 --> 00:38:18.570 I like I loved the training leading up to it. 00:38:18.650 --> 00:38:24.330 I love the discipline, I loved having some fun, something to focus on, and then I loved going out to the race. 00:38:24.410 --> 00:38:26.570 Like the race was like the big mission to me. 00:38:26.650 --> 00:38:40.490 And and then afterwards there was the recovery, and it just it reminded of my days working in uh special operations where there was like a training blocks up to deployment, big mission, and come back and have time to settle and such. 00:38:40.570 --> 00:38:43.450 So I stayed out in 10 10 years now. 00:38:43.690 --> 00:38:45.690 Yeah, I mean that well, that structure is really good. 00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:48.650 I mean, that's the part for me is like having a routine. 00:38:48.810 --> 00:38:54.570 I don't run anymore because my feet are thrashed, but I still swim as my thing. 00:38:54.810 --> 00:39:00.730 Um, I put in a lot of yards, so I but I have to have to myself, um, and I know how I feel. 00:39:00.810 --> 00:39:03.289 And I and I gave up drinking a few years ago. 00:39:03.370 --> 00:39:07.769 I I never, I mean, who knows if I was, but I didn't really drink. 00:39:08.170 --> 00:39:16.170 I got I I had I would have wine periodically, but then I'd go on a ride, you know, and I'd feel shitty like the next day, and like feeling shitty. 00:39:16.250 --> 00:39:18.330 So I just thought it I don't need anymore. 00:39:18.410 --> 00:39:19.130 I just stopped. 00:39:19.289 --> 00:39:24.090 Um, and then I I was telling my daughter the other day, I was like, man, even water is starting to taste like lemonade. 00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:27.370 She goes, No, it doesn't, you know, she's 25 and she's still young and dumb. 00:39:27.450 --> 00:39:35.130 And um, it's fun, but I I just I don't really have a problem going to social events and being stupid and and having fun. 00:39:35.210 --> 00:39:37.050 And I realized I don't need any of that stuff. 00:39:37.130 --> 00:39:38.810 So it's been a but it's been a journey. 00:39:38.890 --> 00:39:44.250 I mean, it's to kind of get comfortable in your skin is is and which is uh which I think drives my work. 00:39:44.330 --> 00:39:52.650 It's like I think I've shared with you, it's like, you know, when someone's complaining about anything or anyone, I just simply ask them anymore, do you like who you are in those situations? 00:39:52.810 --> 00:39:53.130 Right. 00:39:53.370 --> 00:40:01.210 Um, and it's really being able to like uh you know, understand, hey, what is it that I don't like about myself in this situation, right? 00:40:01.370 --> 00:40:04.730 And then what choices do I have to make it right? 00:40:04.890 --> 00:40:05.210 Right. 00:40:05.289 --> 00:40:14.170 If you're being you know inappropriate or saying things that

I don't appreciate, hey Chris, I don't really appreciate that, you know, and it's just me, it's not you, it's just this is the impact. 00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:17.530 But you're I'm not gonna blame you, I'm just gonna say I don't I don't appreciate that, you know. 00:40:17.690 --> 00:40:19.370 You know, can we focus on something different? 00:40:19.450 --> 00:40:26.410 You know, it's like that ability to be uh courageous enough to say what you need um or ask for what you need from others. 00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:31.690 I mean, that's kind of the basis of psychological safety, you know, because if you judge me, that's that's really more about you. 00:40:31.769 --> 00:40:33.610 I'm not gonna let you get into my chili anymore. 00:40:33.690 --> 00:40:36.330 So but I'm also not gonna be self-righteous either. 00:40:36.410 --> 00:40:37.769 I'm like, hey, that's just you. 00:40:38.170 --> 00:40:43.370 But this is what I want in our relationship, which is I want to be talking about these things because you're important to me. 00:40:43.450 --> 00:40:44.330 And you know, what's going on? 00:40:44.410 --> 00:40:45.210 Why are you up? 00:40:45.370 --> 00:40:46.570 You know, so that kind of stuff. 00:40:47.289 --> 00:40:53.850 Yeah, and that takes a lot of courage to to establish those boundaries and and and make those statements and ask those questions and such. 00:40:54.570 --> 00:40:57.130 It took me it took me 60 years to get here though, buddy. 00:40:58.650 --> 00:40:59.050 Cool. 00:40:59.130 --> 00:41:02.890 Well, I got nine to catch up, then I got nine more years to get where you're at. 00:41:03.130 --> 00:41:05.130 Well, hey, let's switch gears a little bit. 00:41:05.289 --> 00:41:15.130 Um, when we had a conversation and you were talking about your world travels and things you've done and people you've met, um, you've had some time to sit with uh Wim Hoff. 00:41:15.370 --> 00:41:16.730 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:16.890 --> 00:41:17.930 What was that like? 00:41:18.250 --> 00:41:26.010 So it was part of the after the campfire, I really was committed to like finding alternative ways for people to get unstuck. 00:41:26.490 --> 00:41:41.850 And so um I flew out to Poland and or I went to it was I went into uh it was the Czech Republic, and then we took a bus ride to his place and um spent a week with him out there and had an amazing experience. 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:47.370 I'd seen his uh documentary of the on the vice documentary they did on him, and I checked it out. 00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:55.610 I was at that point, I was kind of stepping into uh Stephen Cotler's world and the flow research collective with Jamie Wheel, and um they had mentioned the Wim Hof. 00:41:55.930 --> 00:41:57.450 Wim Hoff kept coming up in a lot of our meetings. 00:41:57.530 --> 00:41:58.650 I'm like, what's Wim Hof? 00:41:58.810 --> 00:42:01.850 So I looked it up and I actually did it at home. 00:42:01.930 --> 00:42:05.769 I practiced it and I had this really emotional release just doing

the breath work. 00:42:06.250 --> 00:42:10.970 Um started doing the cold immersion, and I just wasn't sure if I was doing it right. 00:42:11.130 --> 00:42:13.769 So I signed up to spend a week with him. 00:42:13.930 --> 00:42:16.570 Um, and it was insane. 00:42:16.730 --> 00:42:28.570 It was it was a couple things that I really took away from that experience was um one one of the things he said, he he said he said that he goes, to feel is to understand. 00:42:28.730 --> 00:42:38.490 And that has really resonated me because it's like again, when I'm feeling something, and it's tied to the resiliency work that I do is to say if I know where I am, I should know what to, I should know what to do, right? 00:42:38.570 --> 00:42:41.530 So what is what I'm feeling saying to me? 00:42:41.850 --> 00:42:43.370 It means something, right? 00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:47.130 And it's not a judgment, it's I want to make sense of the feeling, right? 00:42:47.289 --> 00:42:48.570 To feel is to understand. 00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:53.050 So, what can I understand about myself and how I'm coping in this moment without judgment? 00:42:53.130 --> 00:42:56.730 Because I think that's that's like the silent um killer in a lot of ways. 00:42:56.890 --> 00:42:58.890 Like we judge it as bad, good, indifferent. 00:42:58.970 --> 00:43:01.850 It's like I don't want to put a judge, I just want to know why it's there. 00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:04.570 And so that was one of the key takeaways. 00:43:04.650 --> 00:43:09.530 And and then on the second night we were there, we he was doing the power breathing exercise. 00:43:09.690 --> 00:43:15.210 So you do the, you know, when you're breathing and then you you hold and then you need to breathe again. 00:43:15.289 --> 00:43:21.050 Well, when you breathe in, you breathe in really high and then you squeeze, and you're like pretending like the air is going above your head. 00:43:21.289 --> 00:43:24.490 And I had I lit up like a bloody Christmas tree. 00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:27.769 Mike, I I felt this electrical charge of my nose, right? 00:43:27.850 --> 00:43:33.850 And it went to the side of my face, and I literally felt like I was looking through, like I'd walk through this wall, right? 00:43:33.930 --> 00:43:37.610 I mean, it was better than any sort of hallucinogenic I'd probably ever taken in my life. 00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:38.330 It was insane. 00:43:38.410 --> 00:43:43.050 And so I walked through this thing, and I'm I just had this huge emotional release. 00:43:43.210 --> 00:43:46.730 I just started, I just started bawling like a like a baby. 00:43:46.810 --> 00:43:49.050 And I was like, damn, where's this coming from? 00:43:49.450 --> 00:43:52.410 And it was like it was a huge release for me. 00:43:52.570 --> 00:44:01.930 And so go on, we do the cold immersion, we spend like 10 minutes in 32 degree water, we hike up the mountain in our boots and just shorts and um just all this. 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:04.170 But and then the community that

I was part of was amazing. 00:44:04.250 --> 00:44:14.570 And then on the last night, we're in his place and we're doing the breathing and we do the power breathing again as a we're all holding hands with the people we'd been with, and similar phenomenon, electrical charge, electrical charge. 00:44:14.650 --> 00:44:25.690 And I actually walked through this whatever veneer it was between reality and the new reality I stepped into, and um fractals, uh this incredibly light, bright light. 00:44:25.769 --> 00:44:33.210 And I I think it has something to do with maybe the pineal gland in our brain, but it was something something was lighting up again, not a huge emotional release. 00:44:33.289 --> 00:44:34.730 I mean, it was insane. 00:44:35.450 --> 00:44:38.170 I mean, I got back from that and I would cry at a commercial. 00:44:38.330 --> 00:44:47.530 Man, I was just like on board for a little bit, but it I it just I felt like I was reborn in such a way that I'm like, wow, that's pretty awesome. 00:44:47.690 --> 00:44:54.170 You know, it was really, I mean, I felt grounded and centered for, you know, really insane. 00:44:54.330 --> 00:45:06.970 Um, and so I actually brought one of the first instructors to Chico and um to do some stuff with some of the fiery foot fire, you know, people who've been dealing with the Rick Fire stuff and had a couple uh vets there as well. 00:45:07.210 --> 00:45:12.250 Nice similar experiences, you know, a lot of emotion, a lot of tears, a lot of just releases. 00:45:12.330 --> 00:45:17.130 And now one guy who owns a gym in town, he he continues to practice it as much as he can. 00:45:17.210 --> 00:45:19.850 Um, but it really helps keep his his perspective. 00:45:20.010 --> 00:45:28.890 But um, yeah, I was trying to find alternative ways because I think you know, we could do there's any number of types of therapies, but not all therapies work for everyone. 00:45:28.970 --> 00:45:34.810 So there's any number of ways that we can access um the better part of ourselves, and and so it it helped. 00:45:34.890 --> 00:45:42.090 But I I still practice the breast dwarf and um the cold stuff, and yeah, yeah, it was crazy. 00:45:42.650 --> 00:45:43.130 Yeah. 00:45:43.370 --> 00:45:44.330 Yeah, me too. 00:45:44.490 --> 00:45:46.010 Uh I still practice as well. 00:45:46.090 --> 00:45:55.450 Um, I actually did a breath work practice before I hopped on this call with you, and um, I'm still a big fan of cold showers, uh, as cold as I can get them here. 00:45:55.610 --> 00:46:01.930 Um, I put a shade structure over my water tent out or water tank out back to try to keep it as cool as possible. 00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:05.530 Um, and then we have uh it's become pretty popular in town. 00:46:05.690 --> 00:46:14.250 I want to say there's maybe a dozen places that are doing saunas and ice baths now and uh red light therapy and and all these different things. 00:46:14.410 --> 00:46:22.970 And and something that keeps coming up in this call that that that's important to me too is just that connection that you get with people when you're going through those modalities together. 00:46:23.130 --> 00:46:29.850 Um because I thought to myself, like, you know, I could put an ice bath right here at the house and I could get a sauna and put it out back. 00:46:29.930 --> 00:46:41.289 I'm like, but if I do that, then I I don't leave the house and I don't I don't go have that community uh that that exists at the the saunas around town. 00:46:41.370 --> 00:46:54.170 So I keep going to the saunas and uh yeah and I mean it goes back to the part of that whole process is you know what I'm keep learning too, it's it's more about recovery than it is about effort, in my view now. 00:46:54.330 --> 00:47:07.769 You know, it's like I'm much more into you know sitting in the saunas and doing the meditation as a method and a ritual of recovery uh and renewal rather than of you know trying to be high performance, right? 00:47:07.850 --> 00:47:09.050 Because that's not sustainable. 00:47:09.610 --> 00:47:24.570 So I I think that you know, as we continue to evolve in our understanding of what we're capable of, and that's why the capacity, it's like just think of your capacity because you you invested that 10 minutes and that the the the tail effect of that throughout the course of your day is now that much better. 00:47:24.730 --> 00:47:26.730 So I I yeah, it's awesome. 00:47:26.890 --> 00:47:29.610 And doing a setting is great too. 00:47:29.930 --> 00:47:31.050 Yeah, yeah. 00:47:31.530 --> 00:47:36.410 So let's let's bring something practical to to this conversation. 00:47:36.490 --> 00:47:41.050 Not that the things we're talking about aren't practical, but what if someone is like listening right now? 00:47:41.210 --> 00:47:57.130 It's like, you know, I wish they could just give me like one thing, like one small thing that I could do because I'm here, I'm feeling stuck, maybe it's it's just stuck in my relationships, or I'm just feel stuck in my career, or I just feel stuck in life. 00:47:57.530 --> 00:48:03.450 Like, do you have any advice for someone that could be like one small but powerful thing that someone could do? 00:48:04.330 --> 00:48:10.170 Um yeah, I mean, there's as you're talking, there's a couple things. 00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:17.769 One of the pieces that I I what I practice a lot of times is if I'm feeling stuck, the question is, what am I focusing on? 00:48:17.850 --> 00:48:18.090 Right. 00:48:18.250 --> 00:48:26.410 So it's like I talk about, well, uh some of this work comes from David Emerald stuff that I use, but he talks about, you know, what's your orientation? 00:48:26.570 --> 00:48:28.090 Do you have a problem or an outcome? 00:48:28.250 --> 00:48:29.610 Like, what am I focusing on? 00:48:29.769 --> 00:48:29.930 Right. 00:48:30.090 --> 00:48:38.650 And I struggled that the last few this last year with everything going on in DC, I, you know, I've lost a ton of work, a lot of money and work

contracts that I had. 00:48:38.810 --> 00:48:40.970 And so I've had to completely pivot. 00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:47.050 Um and and and I had I was kind of going through a rediscovery of like, okay, what do I want? 00:48:47.210 --> 00:48:54.010 You know, I'm I could easily focus on what I don't want and feel stuck and trapped and pissed off, and and I don't want to be there. 00:48:54.170 --> 00:48:55.690 And so I said, Well, what do I want? 00:48:55.769 --> 00:48:58.250 And so I just asked him that question, well, what do I really want? 00:48:58.490 --> 00:49:01.930 And even if it's I don't know, but then I said, Well, what do I want to be? 00:49:02.090 --> 00:49:03.690 Like, how do I want to feel? 00:49:04.010 --> 00:49:05.289 And that's what I'm shooting. 00:49:05.450 --> 00:49:06.570 And so I think I shared with you. 00:49:06.650 --> 00:49:10.170 It's like I started working on my to be list rather than my to-do list, right? 00:49:10.250 --> 00:49:12.090 I want to be calm, I want to be alert. 00:49:12.250 --> 00:49:16.250 I've actually been doing a lot of uh reading James Dody's work, if you're familiar with his stuff. 00:49:16.490 --> 00:49:23.850 Um, he's he's uh he's a he's a neurosurgeon, and um he does he something called the alphabet of the heart. 00:49:24.010 --> 00:49:31.530 And so I do my he he he talks about it's compassion, dignity, equanimity, forgiveness, gratitude, humility, integrity, justice, kindness, and love. 00:49:31.690 --> 00:49:34.410 And so that's my my my my mantra in the morning. 00:49:34.570 --> 00:49:36.410 I'll focus on that, set the intention. 00:49:36.570 --> 00:49:40.650 But I think for people who are stuck, is first of all, you're not stuck throughout the whole day. 00:49:40.810 --> 00:49:45.050 You know, you might be stuck in moments and you might be aware in those moments, but then you get distracted. 00:49:45.210 --> 00:49:49.850 But it's in those moments when I sometimes find darkness uh or darkness is creeping in. 00:49:49.930 --> 00:50:02.810 I'll say, you know, uh, and part of this is I had cancer back in 2012, and um the the the the trap that I got into, I I was like my little voice was going off, right? 00:50:02.890 --> 00:50:07.530 And and and uh I I go to my physician, I said, How do I stop the internal chatter? 00:50:07.690 --> 00:50:09.530 And he goes, just tell it to stop. 00:50:10.090 --> 00:50:13.370 And I'm like, Oh fuck, that's so easy, but it's so fucking hard. 00:50:13.530 --> 00:50:16.810 And so I but I really worked on just practicing that, right? 00:50:16.970 --> 00:50:17.769 Just stop. 00:50:18.730 --> 00:50:19.530 What do I want? 00:50:19.690 --> 00:50:21.370 Well, I want to be here for my kids. 00:50:21.530 --> 00:50:24.330 I want to be here, I want to, you know, so what do I want to focus on? 00:50:24.490 --> 00:50:27.769 And I changed my focus on what I wanted to be doing. 00:50:28.010 --> 00:50:32.250 Um, and so because I would literally go, I'm feeling those are tumor, those are tumor. 00:50:32.330 --> 00:50:33.610 I'm freaking my fucking self out. 00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:37.050 And I just like I don't want to be in this head space. 00:50:37.450 --> 00:50:40.650 Um, and so I just you know, I changed my focus. 00:50:40.810 --> 00:50:47.530 I I would, you know, if I started feeling darkness, I'd go outside and and go in the park and I would do things to change my state. 00:50:47.690 --> 00:50:53.930 Um and and I and yeah, so that's a very practical thing, is just I'd go to my happy place. 00:50:54.010 --> 00:50:58.970 I mean, that's one of the we call it resourcing in the community resiliency model, but you literally can. 00:50:59.289 --> 00:51:00.970 I would just okay, I don't want to be here. 00:51:01.050 --> 00:51:01.690 Where do I want to be? 00:51:01.769 --> 00:51:02.650 I want to be here. 00:51:03.370 --> 00:51:04.810 And I would settle into that. 00:51:04.970 --> 00:51:08.410 Um, and actually now I use it as part of my thinking exercises. 00:51:08.650 --> 00:51:12.490 I have a, I think I showed you, I have a drone that you can fly with your thoughts, right? 00:51:12.570 --> 00:51:15.050 So the calmer you get, the higher this thing flies. 00:51:15.130 --> 00:51:23.370 And then all and all I ask people is like, go to your happy place, go to a place that when you go there, you go into a calm, you know, calm state, and all of a sudden this thing starts to fly. 00:51:23.530 --> 00:51:26.570 And so that's the practice is just go to your happy place. 00:51:26.810 --> 00:51:33.930 Quickest way to un is going because your brain's 60% of your brain's pro 60% of your brain's processing is visual. 00:51:34.090 --> 00:51:44.090 And so use the tools you have, just like running BKMR high or kind of our our our our our cabinet for our uh our drugs, because you can't buy the level of drugs that we can get internally. 00:51:44.170 --> 00:51:49.530 Like if we were to buy the level of you know drugs on the street that are in our bodies, you you would die. 00:51:49.769 --> 00:51:55.769 So we have the access to that, and so just same with our brain, like you change that neurochemistry, you change your state. 00:51:55.930 --> 00:52:02.330 Um, yeah, so just yeah, I would I go to my happy place quite a bit because it can get pretty sometimes. 00:52:02.650 --> 00:52:06.250 Yeah, because I uh yeah, I have this magic magnifying mind, right? 00:52:06.330 --> 00:52:08.490 That what I think of gets bigger and bigger. 00:52:08.650 --> 00:52:14.810 So if I think of the solutions and I think of where I want to be heading towards rather than what I want to avoid. 00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:23.370 And also a lot of times I find that uh the analogy I've used was something uh I was super lucky when I was working with special operations. 00:52:23.450 --> 00:52:26.250 They sent me to rally car racing school twice. 00:52:26.410 --> 00:52:28.010 I got to drive rally cars through. 00:52:28.410 --> 00:52:30.490 Where you focus the car is where you go. 00:52:30.810

--> 00:52:45.769 Yeah, so they they told me they said a really great rally car uh driver will see the road before they hit the trees because they'll never look at the trees, they'll only look at the road, and they'll never give up on that. 00:52:45.850 --> 00:52:47.530 They think they're gonna pull it out, right? 00:52:47.610 --> 00:52:57.289 So even if they're like backwards sliding, they're gonna look out the rear window towards the road and be driving towards that road the entire time because where you where you go. 00:52:57.530 --> 00:52:59.610 Yeah, I mean, you hear that with motorcycle riders. 00:52:59.850 --> 00:53:11.930 I mean, I we used when we used to do team building uh events, we took people high high performance race car driving, and you you go around the track with a race car driver, or you drive around the track at like 85 miles an hour, you're like, I'm hauling ass, and then you get in there going 185 miles an hour. 00:53:12.010 --> 00:53:12.970 It's like, oh, I suck. 00:53:13.289 --> 00:53:16.410 And and what they tell you is like you aim the car where you want it to go, right? 00:53:16.490 --> 00:53:26.810 Yeah, and so I want to aim and and it and I think I want to be really cautious around this because to me it's it's it's not about that toxic positivity because I do think it's okay to feel shitty too. 00:53:26.890 --> 00:53:30.170 I don't mind feeling shitty, I don't judge my shitty feelings. 00:53:30.250 --> 00:53:31.690 I'm like, huh, I feel shitty. 00:53:31.930 --> 00:53:32.810 This will pass. 00:53:32.970 --> 00:53:36.730 Um I'm still stuck in that place and it they're in a different place. 00:53:36.810 --> 00:53:44.810 But I I found that for me personally, um, I'm okay with struggle, I'm okay with um disappointment, I'm okay. 00:53:44.890 --> 00:53:56.090 You know, when my brother passed a few years ago and I got to be as doula, I helped him transition and I just fucking cried my eyes out and I felt grief, and and in that grief became peace. 00:53:56.330 --> 00:54:02.570 And um and so I I just I think that to feel is to understand, it's like it's okay to feel shitty. 00:54:02.650 --> 00:54:11.289 It's okay to it's okay to be these things, and that's why reaching out to people and and having you in my circle now is like, man, I have some another person to reach out to. 00:54:11.370 --> 00:54:14.890 So if if so-and-so can't pick up the fall, well, Chris, it's 11 p.m. 00:54:14.970 --> 00:54:17.610 And I know it's probably you know, maybe somewhere in the morning your time. 00:54:17.690 --> 00:54:18.890 So you got a minute? 00:54:19.769 --> 00:54:21.690 Absolutely, I absolutely do. 00:54:22.090 --> 00:54:23.769 Yeah, that that's powerful, man. 00:54:23.850 --> 00:54:44.250 Is is is recog as uh one of my favorite meditators, uh teachers of all time is Tara Brock, and she talks about in her rain, rain meditation, where she talks about just recognizing what's going on inside of us, recognizing, recognizing the feelings that are

present, recognizing the emotions that are present, and we can recognize, recognize, recognize, right? 00:54:44.410 --> 00:54:46.010 And then she says, allow. 00:54:46.170 --> 00:54:48.250 And then people are like, Whoa, wait, allow? 00:54:48.570 --> 00:54:50.890 Allow it, yeah, allow it to be here. 00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:53.370 Oh, hello, anxiety, welcome. 00:54:53.530 --> 00:54:58.490 Come in, have a seat, let's have some tea, allow it to be here, investigate. 00:54:58.810 --> 00:55:13.370 Her next thing is investigate, investigate where you feel in your body, investigate where you, you know, what sensations are present, investigate what thoughts are present, you know, and then the last part of rain is to nurture, to ask ourselves, like, well, what do I need right now? 00:55:13.610 --> 00:55:14.890 What do I need right now? 00:55:15.050 --> 00:55:29.930 And and and and that's part of also um you know, uh mindfulness, self-compassion of asking ourselves and recognizing that this is a moment of suffering, also recognizing that I'm not the only one in the world that's ever felt this way. 00:55:30.090 --> 00:55:32.890 Many people are feeling this way right now, all around the globe. 00:55:33.130 --> 00:55:35.370 And then ask myself, like, what do I need? 00:55:35.530 --> 00:55:36.410 What do I need right now? 00:55:36.490 --> 00:55:46.490 Maybe it's a soft touch, a hand on the heart, maybe it's a walk in the park, maybe it's a nice deep breath, maybe it's a sip of cool water with my my lime here. 00:55:47.690 --> 00:55:48.650 Whatever it might be. 00:55:49.050 --> 00:55:52.970 Well, and I think it's so important to again give ourselves permission. 00:55:53.050 --> 00:55:57.130 I mean, I think we talked too like the first stage of flow is struggle, right? 00:55:57.210 --> 00:55:59.769 You can't get to a high-performance state until you struggle. 00:55:59.930 --> 00:56:09.530 And so, you know, during COVID, we were doing a lot around helping people understand flow and and we just focus on the bookends of flow, like struggle more effectively, recover more efficiently. 00:56:09.690 --> 00:56:13.450 If you just did those two things, you would definitely navigate the crazy, you know? 00:56:13.610 --> 00:56:16.810 And it so, first of all, but I just found that people had a hard time struggling. 00:56:16.890 --> 00:56:25.690 They they put so much negativity on the struggle, but at the same time, it's like you know in order to learn, agitation is the first sign that you're learning, right? 00:56:25.930 --> 00:56:30.250 So all it means is you don't know, you don't have the tools yet, right? 00:56:30.410 --> 00:56:35.850 Or you or the right whatever to get past what you're currently stuck in, but you have the potential. 00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:40.650 And so I just if I don't know, then it means I have an opportunity to learn something. 00:56:40.810 --> 00:56:44.330 So I like the most annoying people in my life, I've turned them into my teachers. 00:56:44.410 --> 00:56:45.530 That's how I frame it, right? 00:56:45.690 --> 00:56:47.289 Because I still haven't learned the lesson. 00:56:47.370 --> 00:56:48.570 Like, what is it about this person? 00:56:48.650 --> 00:56:50.890 It's making me feel what I feel about myself right now. 00:56:51.050 --> 00:56:52.010 Oh, it's not about them. 00:56:52.090 --> 00:56:53.530 It's just it reminds me of Mrs. 00:56:53.690 --> 00:56:55.610 So-and-so when I was in seventh grade, right? 00:56:55.690 --> 00:56:57.930 And so now I'm triggered because my nervous system takes over. 00:56:58.090 --> 00:57:12.250 So um, yeah, that practice is it, it's just it's like just going inwards in a way, not to get self-absorbed, but just to be self-aware enough to know that um, you know, I want to be, I want to be in a place where I can add value. 00:57:12.410 --> 00:57:14.890 I want to be in a calm alert. 00:57:14.970 --> 00:57:20.490 Uh, there's a neuroscientist, her name's Heidi Hannah, that I've uh worked with, and she calls it a GPS. 00:57:20.570 --> 00:57:23.130 So the goal is the state I want to hold, right? 00:57:23.210 --> 00:57:29.289 So I want to be calm and alert, and the purpose is because I have anxiety or whatever. 00:57:29.450 --> 00:57:31.769 And so, and then the S is strategies. 00:57:31.930 --> 00:57:36.410 So, how do I what are the strategies I do to get into calm and alert? 00:57:36.490 --> 00:57:40.330 Um, going back to like the to be list rather than a to-do list kind of thing. 00:57:40.410 --> 00:57:43.370 So, how do I be as I stepped into this space? 00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:47.289 Um, if I'm ruminating on something I have to step into, how do I want to be as I step into? 00:57:47.530 --> 00:57:55.210 Like I had to work in front of like 200, you know, four fifty people last couple days, and you know, I used, I mean, I used to sweat profusely. 00:57:55.289 --> 00:57:56.810 My body would just react. 00:57:56.970 --> 00:58:10.570 I just so anxious, and I could totally pull it off because I'm the facilitator, whatever, but I would still be just just weathing inside of just anxiety, and and now I'm like, I'm not sweating anymore, I'm totally at peace. 00:58:11.210 --> 00:58:11.850 I want to be prone. 00:58:12.890 --> 00:58:30.810 So I was um, I was not at that level, like it was only 24 people, but I was an instructor for like three years at a schoolhouse in the Navy, and I never got used to getting up on stage and having the podium and having the clicker and standing in front of the PowerPoint and teaching eight hours a day. 00:58:31.130 --> 00:58:35.769 So um, I think her name is perhaps Amy Cuddy, I want to say. 00:58:36.010 --> 00:58:36.810 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:58:36.890 --> 00:58:41.530 She does the active posturing, taking all that. 00:58:41.769 --> 00:58:42.810 Yeah, I used to do that. 00:58:42.970 --> 00:58:44.970 I used to do that in the restroom. 00:58:45.450 --> 00:58:55.210 Before I would go out on the podium, I'd be like getting big and taking up

space, and I'd be putting my hands on my hips and do like power posing and like, oh, you can do this, you can do this. 00:58:55.370 --> 00:58:56.730 And one time, like somebody walked in. 00:58:56.810 --> 00:59:03.130 I've got like my hands in the air, standing in the restroom on this military schoolhouse. 00:59:03.289 --> 00:59:04.730 I'm like, what the hell are you doing? 00:59:04.810 --> 00:59:05.850 I'm like, I'm taking this work. 00:59:07.610 --> 00:59:09.930 You go back into class, everyone's like, That's him. 00:59:12.410 --> 00:59:13.610 It's the crazy guy. 00:59:13.930 --> 00:59:22.410 But yeah, I was like, fake it, I was faking it until I became it, you know, and then by the end, like I was uh still not a hundred percent comfortable. 00:59:22.490 --> 00:59:36.410 I mean, I still get those jitters, but I reframe them as like uh, like you'll if I'm ever presenting, you may hear me when I hop on the call, like, I'm so excited to do this thing, I'm so excited to be here, which means like I'm scared shitless. 00:59:36.570 --> 00:59:36.970 Exactly. 00:59:37.130 --> 00:59:38.890 What's the point's anxiety? 00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:49.610 Well, so again, I I I have such a cool gig in my life because like I get to work with the Olympics, you know, I get to do and and so it's interesting, like you hear an Olympic athlete being interviewed by someone like were you nervous? 00:59:49.690 --> 00:59:54.250 Like, no, I was excited, like so where we process nervous anxiety is the same part of the brain that does excitement. 00:59:54.410 --> 00:59:56.890 So it's like reframe it so it's of service to me. 00:59:57.050 --> 00:59:59.210 Goes back to pat repack the bag, right? 00:59:59.370 --> 01:00:02.330 Under to feel is to understand, I'm feeling this. 01:00:02.490 --> 01:00:04.330 How else can I use it for good? 01:00:04.490 --> 01:00:04.810 Right. 01:00:04.970 --> 01:00:14.410 So again, but that's a practice, it's not an easy thing to do, but just to notice, like, ah, name it, tame it, use it, you know. 01:00:14.490 --> 01:00:17.289 So it's it's different, but it's it's but it's work. 01:00:17.370 --> 01:00:19.769 I mean, again, this has been a long journey for me. 01:00:19.930 --> 01:00:26.810 Um, I've had a lot of great mentors, I've had a lot of great um bad experiences that allowed me to practice this stuff. 01:00:26.970 --> 01:00:29.050 So uh, you know, it's like it takes work. 01:00:29.130 --> 01:00:39.530 I mean, I I always think of like um like P90X, and you see those people that they they look really fat and and ugly in the beginning, and then they leave you know sick 12 weeks later and they're just rock stars, right? 01:00:39.690 --> 01:00:42.970 They don't tell you that they're on a like a 500 calorie diet, right? 01:00:43.050 --> 01:00:46.490 They're they're not they're not showing you all the behind the scenes. 01:00:47.850 --> 01:00:56.010 No magic bullet, it's effort, you know, it's so much effort to put into but I think going back to if I'm

stuck, it's like, how do I want to be? 01:00:56.170 --> 01:01:05.690 And and then am I in pursuit of that versus all my time to your point moving away from what I don't want because that's a huge energy stock, in my view. 01:01:05.930 --> 01:01:19.370 Um, and again, it doesn't mean that getting to what I want to be is going to be easy, it's gonna take you know, it's discipline to stay sober, you know, it's discipline to say your truth, it's discipline to um, because again, social. 01:01:19.769 --> 01:01:20.890 I mean, I our again. 01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:24.170 Our brains are social, and I think we underestimate the power of it. 01:01:24.490 --> 01:01:27.690 But you get rejected, that's like getting punched in the face, right? 01:01:27.850 --> 01:01:30.650 So, why would I ever say that to you again? 01:01:30.810 --> 01:01:32.970 Or why would I ever say what I'm feeling to somebody? 01:01:33.050 --> 01:01:37.130 Because last time I said I was feeling to somebody, they laughed at me, and I'm never gonna go through that again. 01:01:37.370 --> 01:01:41.850 My brain, I mean, I mean, who puts their hand on a freaking hot stove more than hot stove more than once? 01:01:41.930 --> 01:01:47.210 Like, so yeah, so again, it's like putting it into practice. 01:01:47.450 --> 01:01:48.490 That's the work. 01:01:48.650 --> 01:01:56.570 It's the the work isn't the work is making the choice and and then also giving yourself the the baby steps to get there. 01:01:56.650 --> 01:02:00.410 We well, I'll share we used to do these ropes courses. 01:02:00.570 --> 01:02:05.289 Um and one of the clients we had was uh cancer, breast cancer survivors, right? 01:02:05.850 --> 01:02:09.130 And uh it was a it's called the Healing Odyssey program. 01:02:09.450 --> 01:02:15.850 It was really intense where all these women who were either had cancer or were recovering, coming out of it. 01:02:16.010 --> 01:02:19.210 Um, and so one of the events we did was called the the pole. 01:02:19.450 --> 01:02:23.289 They had to climb up this 40-foot pole, stand on top of it, catch a trap peas, right? 01:02:23.450 --> 01:02:25.769 And those events are all challenged by choice, right? 01:02:25.850 --> 01:02:27.530 So everything's about choice. 01:02:27.769 --> 01:02:31.769 And this one woman is off to the side and she's just crying, like, I can't do it. 01:02:31.850 --> 01:02:33.450 She's just sobbing the whole time. 01:02:33.610 --> 01:02:37.930 And all the women are, you know, they're choosing to put on the gear, they're choosing to come to the ladder, make a choice. 01:02:38.090 --> 01:02:39.769 They make a choice whether to climb or not climb. 01:02:39.930 --> 01:02:42.330 But the key is be clear on the choice you need to make. 01:02:42.490 --> 01:02:46.970 And so this woman finally, I said, you know, we're running, you know, you, you know, we're coming to last. 01:02:47.050 --> 01:02:48.170 I go, do you do you want to do it? 01:02:48.250 --> 01:02:49.850 She goes, Yeah, but I just don't think I can. 01:02:50.010 --> 01:02:52.090 I'm like, okay, I understand that. 01:02:52.330 --> 01:02:54.090 I go, but do you want to? 01:02:54.410 --> 01:02:54.810 I want to. 01:02:54.890 --> 01:02:56.170 I said, so do me a favor. 01:02:56.250 --> 01:02:58.010 I said, stand on the ground. 01:02:58.170 --> 01:02:59.530 Like you where you're standing right now. 01:02:59.610 --> 01:03:03.370 I want you to show me what it would feel like for you if you're standing on top of that pole. 01:03:03.769 --> 01:03:05.850 And man, her physiology just went, boom, man. 01:03:05.930 --> 01:03:07.450 She just got nailed. 01:03:07.530 --> 01:03:10.810 She was like, like, like just like almost instantaneously. 01:03:10.890 --> 01:03:13.450 She just put herself on top of that pole on the ground, right? 01:03:13.610 --> 01:03:16.810 And I said, So the question I have is that feeling worth going for? 01:03:17.050 --> 01:03:17.850 And she goes, I guess. 01:03:17.930 --> 01:03:19.210 So I'm like, and I go, You guess? 01:03:19.289 --> 01:03:19.530 I know. 01:03:19.610 --> 01:03:21.769 You know, she's still kind of sobbing, and I'm like, great. 01:03:21.850 --> 01:03:31.050 So now the first thing, if you if that's what you want to go for, that feeling, then the first question I have is, can you go over to the gear area and get it put on you? 01:03:31.289 --> 01:03:31.930 Yes, I can. 01:03:32.090 --> 01:03:32.330 Okay. 01:03:32.490 --> 01:03:34.090 More importantly, do you choose to do that? 01:03:34.250 --> 01:03:34.890 Yes, I choose. 01:03:34.970 --> 01:03:38.890 So she goes over there, puts on the gear, and then after you do that, you can come to the ladder. 01:03:38.970 --> 01:03:40.810 We'll put the carabiners on you and stuff. 01:03:40.890 --> 01:03:43.370 And um, then you have to make a choice whether you want to climb or not. 01:03:43.530 --> 01:03:44.170 Can you do that? 01:03:44.250 --> 01:03:44.730 I can. 01:03:44.890 --> 01:03:45.690 Do you choose to? 01:03:45.850 --> 01:03:46.410 I choose to. 01:03:46.570 --> 01:03:48.170 So she goes, gets there, I go now. 01:03:48.490 --> 01:03:49.850 You have to make the choice to climb. 01:03:50.010 --> 01:03:50.650 You choose to climb. 01:03:50.810 --> 01:03:51.530 Or can you climb? 01:03:51.610 --> 01:03:52.090 Yes, I can. 01:03:52.170 --> 01:03:52.730 Do you choose to? 01:03:52.810 --> 01:03:53.050 Yes. 01:03:53.130 --> 01:03:56.010 Okay, now you got to put that first foot on that first rung. 01:03:56.090 --> 01:03:56.650 Can you do that? 01:03:56.810 --> 01:03:57.210 I can. 01:03:57.289 --> 01:03:57.930 Do you choose to? 01:03:58.090 --> 01:03:58.570 I choose to. 01:03:58.650 --> 01:03:58.970 Boom. 01:03:59.050 --> 01:04:00.410 Puts her first feet on the rung. 01:04:00.490 --> 01:04:02.330 And next thing you know, she's on top of this thing. 01:04:02.410 --> 01:04:05.690 And everyone's just going crazy because they've seen and witnessed this person. 01:04:05.850 --> 01:04:07.690 It's like, I can't, I can't, I can't.

01:04:08.010 --> 01:04:10.730 And finally she she gets it, she's successful. 01:04:10.810 --> 01:04:11.610 She comes down. 01:04:11.769 --> 01:04:13.289 Everyone's just going crazy. 01:04:13.450 --> 01:04:19.289 She gives me a big hug, and I go, now you got to think of all the said things you said to yourself that you said you couldn't do. 01:04:19.690 --> 01:04:20.890 And it's about choice. 01:04:20.970 --> 01:04:22.010 It's really about choice. 01:04:22.090 --> 01:04:33.610 And and I think that's the thing that I guess part of that capacity building is recognizing the power of choice in something of this because, like, you know, can I run a marathon? 01:04:33.769 --> 01:04:34.090 Sure. 01:04:34.330 --> 01:04:35.210 Do I choose to? 01:04:35.530 --> 01:04:35.850 No. 01:04:36.330 --> 01:04:36.810 Right? 01:04:37.210 --> 01:04:39.210 A lot of people say I can't run a marathon. 01:04:39.450 --> 01:04:39.610 Right. 01:04:39.850 --> 01:04:41.050 They just say I can't. 01:04:41.289 --> 01:04:42.170 But they can. 01:04:42.570 --> 01:04:45.210 They can walk it, you know, they can trot it, they could do it. 01:04:45.289 --> 01:04:46.410 Anyone can do it mostly. 01:04:46.490 --> 01:04:48.410 I mean, I've seen people with no legs do a marathon. 01:04:48.490 --> 01:04:51.690 So don't tell me an able-bodied person can't do a marathon. 01:04:51.930 --> 01:04:53.370 But it's a matter of choice. 01:04:53.450 --> 01:05:02.570 And I think the number one cause of hypertension for people in stress is feeling like they don't, they can't do things, that they they have no agency. 01:05:02.730 --> 01:05:06.890 And so that capacity is getting people to see that they have agency in themselves. 01:05:07.050 --> 01:05:10.890 And then if we could count that within a team, our capacity goes up. 01:05:11.130 --> 01:05:16.570 And if we can do that, and all the teams are doing that, then the organization's capacity grows up or the community's capacity grows up. 01:05:16.730 --> 01:05:28.330 And I think maybe that's going back to our original thing around building humanity is just showing the power of that we have a lot more power in choosing to go towards things together and heal together. 01:05:28.490 --> 01:05:37.769 And yeah, so uh but it's about choice because I I can I can do a lot of things, and I'm also clear if it's not a hell yes, I'm not gonna do it. 01:05:37.850 --> 01:05:41.130 You know, I learned that from one of the podcasts other many years ago, it's changed my life. 01:05:41.210 --> 01:05:46.170 Like I choose not to, and I'm playing with the choice so I can be folks what I want to be doing, right? 01:05:46.250 --> 01:05:49.050 So yeah, that's amazing, man. 01:05:49.210 --> 01:05:50.410 Yeah, I love it. 01:05:50.490 --> 01:05:52.090 What a great conversation, Scott. 01:05:52.490 --> 01:06:05.210 Um let's let's bring this thing into a close with um I asked this is the final question I do with this podcast, and um it's the billboard question. 01:06:05.530 --> 01:06:10.810 So let's say you have a billboard, and a billion people are gonna see this billboard. 01:06:11.130 --> 01:06:13.289 It can anything can be on the billboard. 01:06:13.370 --> 01:06:17.289 It could be a picture, it could be a quote from you, it could be a quote from someone else. 01:06:17.690 --> 01:06:21.370 Anything can be on this billboard, but a billion people are gonna see it. 01:06:21.690 --> 01:06:23.610 What's gonna be on your billboard? 01:06:28.410 --> 01:06:30.810 I would say it would be the infinity sign. 01:06:39.450 --> 01:06:42.250 Anyone and anyone can make up what that means, but that's fine. 01:06:42.810 --> 01:06:43.930 All right, cool. 01:06:44.330 --> 01:06:46.090 It's not the infinity par symbol either. 01:06:46.170 --> 01:06:52.250 I don't I don't those cars suck, but I I this is always I love it. 01:06:52.410 --> 01:06:56.330 Dude, this has been a great conversation that I'm gonna continue to come back to. 01:06:56.490 --> 01:07:04.490 Um, I love how you are able to blend science with heart and systems in a way that that really clicks for me. 01:07:04.570 --> 01:07:12.970 And um well, Chris, listen, I I want to have the people hear this because I think this is one of the things that it's been the gift getting to know you and I think I shared with you. 01:07:13.050 --> 01:07:17.450 But I I really do honor and I love myself in your presence because you create that space for me. 01:07:17.610 --> 01:07:25.210 And um, I think that's also the the secret sauce to all of this is just being in a place where we create space for each other so that they show up who they want to be. 01:07:25.289 --> 01:07:26.570 And and I I appreciate that. 01:07:26.650 --> 01:07:28.890 And I I was really honored for this invitation. 01:07:29.050 --> 01:07:32.090 So wow man, dude, you're making me tear up. 01:07:32.170 --> 01:07:32.730 I love it. 01:07:33.289 --> 01:07:35.610 This is a great, it's a great podcast. 01:07:35.769 --> 01:07:42.010 Whenever I uh whenever I have tears in my eyes, like that's a sign to me that what a great, what a great podcast. 01:07:42.250 --> 01:07:43.450 Oh man, I love it. 01:07:43.530 --> 01:07:44.810 What a great compliment, you know. 01:07:44.890 --> 01:07:47.769 What a great thing that I love myself in your presence. 01:07:47.930 --> 01:07:51.289 Like that I'm holding on to that one. 01:07:51.370 --> 01:07:52.730 That is gold, dude. 01:07:52.970 --> 01:07:58.730 So hey, if people want to find out more about uh Scott Winters, where can they um where can they find you? 01:07:58.810 --> 01:08:00.650 What's uh check you out? 01:08:01.690 --> 01:08:03.690 Yep, the first thing is my last name is Winter. 01:08:03.930 --> 01:08:04.410 There's no S. 01:08:04.810 --> 01:08:05.130 Sorry. 01:08:05.289 --> 01:08:07.130 Uh no worries, no worries. 01:08:07.370 --> 01:08:13.370 And it's because when I was in high school, we had two boys with the with it, we had the Winters boys, and I'd go to school on Monday and like, hey, where did you get a resident? 01:08:13.610 --> 01:08:14.570 Like, no, no, that was someone else. 01:08:14.650 --> 01:08:15.289 That was the Winters. 01:08:15.530 --> 01:08:18.010 Uh so anyway, I have a little bit of scar tissue around that one. 01:08:18.170 --> 01:08:23.769 Um, second thing is so, in order to reach me, I'm at uh I have a LinkedIn Scott Winter. 01:08:23.930 --> 01:08:27.289 I don't do a lot of social media because I don't like adding to the noise, I just do a Sunday reflection. 01:08:27.449 --> 01:08:31.449 And then uh the Collaborative Commons, we're redoing the website right now. 01:08:31.609 --> 01:08:34.810 Uh, like again, it's going to be focusing on that capacity building. 01:08:34.890 --> 01:08:37.130 But the other part of the commons is not just about me. 01:08:37.289 --> 01:08:40.649 We're really building a community of people like me, so you could be a member. 01:08:40.810 --> 01:09:00.009 Um, and it's so we have an outs outward facing thing for customers, but a back end for people like yourself who want to be of service to grow capacity so that we could promote you through our website to say, hey, if you need a coach, we got Chris, you know, like I want to be building that capacity because again, it takes takes a village, and rising tide raises all boats. 01:09:00.089 --> 01:09:07.769 And I want to I want to be a part of raising the tide, and I want you to be one of the one of the boats in in the in the in the fleet so we can keep making a difference. 01:09:07.929 --> 01:09:09.849 So awesome, man. 01:09:10.009 --> 01:09:10.889 All right, folks. 01:09:11.049 --> 01:09:12.329 What a great conversation. 01:09:12.489 --> 01:09:16.329 That's a wrap on this episode of Cognitive Fitness Coach. 01:09:16.489 --> 01:09:23.129 Is something in this conversation sparked a question, a reflection, or maybe a next step for you? 01:09:23.369 --> 01:09:35.049 Follow it, journal it, move with it, and then ask yourself maybe this week is like, how can I move toward the solution in my life? 01:09:35.209 --> 01:09:39.929 How can I move more towards the person I want to become? 01:09:41.209 --> 01:09:49.529 Until next time, I encourage you to keep training your mind, take good care of your nervous system, peace, be well. 01:09:50.089 --> 01:09:52.969 Thanks again, it's gonna be a good idea.