บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Finding Happiness & Identity

blend in. 03:58 in every way possible. From what I wore, to what I ate, to how I lived, to the choices of friends I made, to how I conducted myself in the workplace. And it was always like two different individuals. One person at home, and then one completely different person at work. And living outside of your authentic self is hard. And it impacts happiness, it impacts wellbeing. 04:29 and it impacts mental health, totally. Oh, absolutely. So I just, when he asked me the question, but I was living through it without realizing all of these things happening underneath me, like underneath my being. Right. But when he asked me that, I didn't want him to be living a life unauthentically. 04:52 So when I started working with him, giving him stories, helping him with his own cultural identity, the very first thing that I realized was, how can I tell him stories and movies, show him movies about different identities? 05:07 And I realized that there was no books or stories that could help me tell the stories of to a child of first immigrants, right? And so I was so determined to tell them the story that a few months later I published a book with the stories that I told my kids that night when he asked me that question. And I'll just stop there. But that's kind of my journey. A part of my journey about... 05:37 the cultural identity. We're still in the process of learning who we are, learning through our lived experiences. 05:46 but it's an ongoing transformation. It's an ongoing thing. And I want to touch on a couple of things you said throughout that, which is, one, to take the initiative to be like, I'm just gonna write a book about this joint is so cool. But I want to say, I want to kind of respond to what you said, like, as you were trying to... 06:08 to assimilate to a different culture, you're doing something else. And I feel like a lot of people do that to fit in, but every time you maybe dress a way that you feel like it's more appropriate to fit in, you're taking away from yourself. And I felt that too. Like for the longest time in my mind, I'm like, I don't wanna wear this, but. 06:32 When I wear the polo and the slacks, people look at me differently, or they respond to me differently. So it's like, oh, I gotta dress this way, or speak this other way, or lighten my voice up, and every time I do something differently, I'm losing what makes me unique and what makes me... 06:53 like my superpower, like it makes me me. And it took me a while to understand like, yo, this is trash. Like I need to be more myself. And I've been slowly but surely doing that. But I would love to ask you, as you were writing that book for your son. 07:09 What did you learn about yourself? Were there questions that came up as you were reading it that you were like, oh, I didn't think about this either. What was that process like? Yeah, so I wrote two books. Two books, okay. Two books. So the first one was Happy in Your Skin is Rough or Different, and that was the book I wrote in response to when my son had the question about why he looked different. 07:39 be brown I want to be beige I mean that's what he meant. Well think about it yeah it is beige right? I love kids. I know you're so transparent right so he said I want to be beige so when I wrote the when I wrote the book I wrote about really driving into it's okay to have cultural curiosities and 08:08 I learned that when growing up, if I had cultural curiosities, it was mostly, the response I would get is, you're asking too many questions, just live with it. There was never a response I would get in addressing that curiosity. 08:36 you start asking those questions. And so for me when I was writing the book, for me it was like, okay, it's okay to ask questions. And only if you ask questions are we gonna learn, we're gonna open our minds to learning by asking. And so there were questions that he would ask me and I would say, this is my response because this is where I lived and this is how we grew up. 09:03 but it could be a different experience for somebody else, maybe growing up in India. Or growing up even in the city Mumbai, where I grew up. And so also giving him those type of perspectives was very important, so that he doesn't generalize it to everybody in Asia or in India. Right. You know what's so funny, even growing up in America and the States, trying to answer those questions for my children, because I grew up differently than they did. 09:33 they may do something or say something where I need to check myself before I respond. Cause I'm like, oh, you have no idea what it's like. You have no idea. So trying to get them to understand like, hey, this is how it was for me, this is how it is for you. And really breaking that down. Do you find that to be... 09:58 maybe a little hard to try to figure that out, to break that down? Or is it as you've done it more, is it easier to say to really kind of separate the two and to explain it better? Yeah, I so the biggest question that they are in this age now, it's kindergartners and first two boys, kindergarten and first grade. They're always asking me, so mom, did you grow up poor? Did you have money to buy a bunk bed? 10:28 And I would say, no, we didn't even have our own rooms, for example. So they would be like, oh, then where would everybody sleep? 10:38 And so that's an example of something that we, through our privileged lenses today, are unable to see something, a different reality that I grew up in. And for me to even like paint the picture of what I look like is hard. But I also want to make sure that I tell them that, okay, what's important is experience, your life and your education. And my parents gave me the best education. 11:08 give me the best experiences and whether or not we had any money or not, right? Right. And so shifting it away from like that money currency and all of that into more of experiences and education is what I found to be the, how I navigate these questions

about just money because that's how they're asking me right now. But they'd ask me about even like, did you go to Disney? When I went to Disney, I said this is the first time I went to Disney. 11:38 They were like, you never went to Disney when you were a child? I was like, no. And they're so confused, like, wait, what? I said, well, we could not afford a ticket. We never sat in an airplane. And that is, they can't see it. But what I feel like in these situations is, how can I show you that we have privileges? And what those privileges are, and what they mean, and how we need to see beyond that is very essential. 12:08 The things that I've done is during our Matanuda King Day we all went and we volunteered at our food pen at our Food packaging place. Oh right on the Meals from the heart meals from the heartland. We did that Oh cool as a family and and my young, you know boys like kindergarten and first grade they were the I think that the youngest they're packaging food and Before that we showed them videos of like why we do this and why we need to do 12:38 this and you know what privilege means. Yeah. That's just one example of just helping children see that there's something beyond just fighting for like your stuff. Right and I think I think there is a responsibility when it comes to having to privilege. You know what I mean? Like I think there is I think that's great that you did that with your kids and I do similar things with my children as well as far as making sure one it's not a punishment to 13:08 to have these responsibilities. You have a privilege that there are some kids your age, or even some adults my age that don't have, so we have to give back because that's what community is about. We have to give back, we gotta do what we have to do. And that is the responsibility of someone with the privileges that we have right now. My question for you, I'm curious, because I know you're a thought leader, but like, what... 13:37 When you think about happiness, what brings you happiness? That is a very good question. 13:46 I think for me, when we think about happiness, right? I think even defining happiness, what I found like, people just, it's very hard for people to even define happiness. But there's this book, Arthur Brooks and Oprah Winfrey. Arthur Brooks is a social scientist and he teaches I think in a university, I think Harvard. 14:12 I need to fact check that. But Arthur Brooks and Oprah Winfrey have written this book about how to design your life. And they talk about definition of happiness. But they talk in the way that it's not about happiness, but it's about happier. Oh, happier. Oh, talk about it. Happier. And it's about comparing yourself to yourself of yesterday. And do you feel happier? 14:41 And a lot of times when people, you know, and I did this all my life, when I get that thing, whether it's a car, the promotion, the house, the model American life, you know, I will be happy. When I get married and I get this so-and-so spouse, when I was not married, the spouse with all of these criteria, I'll be happy. That's the happiness. And then you get there. 15:07 And then you get happy, of course, you know, your wedding day and everything, and everything fizzles out and then you're back to a certain baseline. Right. Yes. You have these huge highs. Yes. But like, OK, now we're here again. Yeah. And then in order to get those highs, you want to keep doing things because you want to keep that high and you think that that's happiness. I didn't make me happy. But that's really it's between it's it's pleasure. 15:33 And you think that outwardly is pleasure. It takes you to that peak. It could be the consumption of a great coffee. It could be an experience. It could be walking on the beach with the wind flowing through my hair. All of that is pleasure, meaning that it's going to give me that moment of great joy and pleasure. And then it's going to come back to a certain baseline. 15:56 And every time you keep thinking about trying to do, get that promotion again, get to that whatever car, whatever. 16:05 whatever that is, you know, it's going to be, they call it the hedonic treadmill, where you're constantly running, running and running after something, and all it is causing you is anxiety, stress, stress and demotivation. Everything different and opposite from happiness. For trying to be happy. And you know what, I do something, and my family, my wife and my kids, they call me a sociopath. 16:35 You're like, you're a psychopath. Because what makes me happy is having a good cup of coffee, sitting in the dark, and just eating. 16:45 And they're like, why are the lights off? And I'm like, I don't need them on. I'm just sipping my coffee. I had the light from the outside, you know, it's five in the morning, 530. And they're like, what is wrong with you? Like, why? But it's the simplest thing, but it's quiet. It's just me and my dog sometimes. I'm just sitting looking outside drinking coffee and they just think it's so weird. I'm like, that's my happier. Like it's super simple. It's just a cup of coffee and me sitting. Yeah. 17:15 And I think, I believe a lot of people would be happier if they could find something simple that is they can just do every day or on the weekend or it's just something to just make it easier. So the way, so there's science to happiness, which unfortunately we don't teach in business schools, which we should. We teach about economics, but if happiness was supposed, if happiness became 17:45 you know, a stock, a ticker that traded on stock exchange, how would all these companies do when it comes to the happiness ticker? And there's research around from, about that from Indeed, that there are just few companies that consistently do that, the top 100. And the companies that do that, they have really crafted a way of belongingness for the employees and the workplace. So when I think about happiness 18:15 what I've researched, which is a

part of my thesis that I did for my PhD. That's why I kind of go back to research. And what it talks about is it's a science, it's a learned skill. And you have to work on it every single day to get happier. And it really comes down to three things. Something transcendent, like faith. It doesn't, nothing religious or anything, but just something greater than... Something to believe in. Yes, everything else, like something greater, something... 18:45 Hire and then friends and family. So faith, friends and family. And when you look at all the things you do in your day to day and the time you spend, if it does not align with serving any of these three components of your life. 19:06 which is what makes you happier. If I asked you what makes you happy, a lot of times it is spending time with my family, spending time with my friends, building the deep relationships, and then believing that there's something greater impact for what I do, or this transcendence, or this God, or whatever that faith is of yours. 19:28 And if there are time that we do does not have, you know, does not correlate to any of these three in terms of impact, then it's just busy work. We need to then think about, OK, how can we get away from doing these things? What are we doing that's not causing stress and does not align with me serving my family, me serving my friends or my community? And that greater transcendence aspect. So you're preaching to the choir. I am I am faith. 19:58 friends and family gang all day. But what about those people that say they find happiness in solitude or being by themselves? Yes. And I think there's something to that. Like again, coffee and quiet is sometimes a good place for me to be. Like reading. Yeah. Reading and things like that. But like something that, this is a conversation I have with my daughter a lot, because she's a creative, she's an artist, she likes to be in her room and paint and do things. And she's like, by my head, you need to be around friends and family too. 20:28 you know that's important but what would you say to that professional, someone you may work with or provide mentorship to, to encourage them to think more about what does your community look like for happiness? What would you say to that? Yeah, so I think there are two things here. One is that 20:55 individuals, some individuals prefer, like they call themselves introvert, they like to, they like their solo time. Yep. And also sometimes because of creativity and art, they prefer to be on their own. 21:09 And a lot of art, a lot of poets love to be in the sad phase because the greatest artist who written the best songs like Taylor Swift, best songs when she broke up. So when she had that breakup, you know. So we need that. We need that for our art and culture aspect of it, you know, from a creative aspect. 21:39 aspect of it. But I'd say that as human beings, when we think about like psychological safety, we're not created to be by ourselves all the time. We have

always seen dependency and connection that help us flourish and thrive. 22:00 And so I think taking moments like doing yoga or reflection or reading or by yourself is really good to like center your energy, your thoughts. And for some people it just needs to like cut off everything in order to learn and grow. For me I'm on the opposite. I learn from people. So if I can, if someone tells me, okay, you know, be by yourself, I can for maybe a small 22:30 But I love to network and learn from people and see what people are doing and how I can get better So for me, I would use most of that time to see where I can help by connecting with people Yeah, it energizes you it energize and for people like like you for example your daughter for example It energizes her to be in control of her thoughts and be creative because that's her flow And one of the parts about happiness or in positive psychology 23:00 Um, um, Marty Seligman. 23:04 has a positive psychology framework of what drives human happiness. And then that one aspect of that human happiness is flow. How can you create... in workplace when people are working, how can I say that I'm happy at work? What drives happiness at work? And that is, can you find flow? Meaning you're doing your work and you lose all aspects of how the time has flown by, 23:34 and someone has to like come knock your chair to leave the office. And you just love doing that presentation or you love to, uh, you know, helping writing that email because it's helping your client or your customer or, you know, things have just gotten off hand, but you like to jump in and help solve it for your customer. And you have absolutely, you know, the time has gone, you've lost, you know, you've forgotten to eat lunch, you know, like because you're just so engrossed. 24:04 in it but you're so happy doing it and once done you feel like a sense of accomplishment and so that's flow and how people can get to that flow when they have tasks is really drives from what really is when you are in control of your thoughts like for some people it is leave me alone so I can get to flow and do my work because that's what makes me happy and that improves my 24:34 has correlations to like improve quality of work, employee engagement. And while there's some people would love to like do problem solving, like it's my role in my organization, I do problem solving by collaboration. And I could do that by myself on an island, but I wouldn't enjoy it. The part of the job of problem solving that I enjoy because I like to collaborate with people and get everyone together, we use sticky notes, write ideas. 25:04 bring out ideas from people and and then try and create a different process for our customers and that for me Energizes me and for me that creates flow I can do full two days or three days of that process and Once I'm done. I was like, okay now I'm tired but when I'm in it my energy my that you know just my interest my passion and Everybody can feel it see

it and everybody in there 25:34 It spreads. That's the other part about happiness. If you have an employee who's happy, and you have just one person, you have a 15% chance of your entire team's happiness going up. And I think two weeks or something, that's what the research is. But it's just interesting that when you have people can find their flow. So I tell people, if you want to be happy at work, find what you like. And 26:01 It's a buffet you like, you take what you want, leave the rest. But what you want, what you like, take it and create. 26:08 that flow, create the moments where you forget the sun has risen and the sun has set. And you can just do it. And it's like artists who paint, poets who write, and in corporates or nonprofits, it's the work we do for our customers, clients, and our business. Right. So when you're in your flow, you go on this two or three day, almost like a rave, a work rager, right? Yes. It's like the Buddhist and the monk should go. 26:38 You know, it's the opposite of it, but it's like, it's the same thing. It's like they go for solitude, you know, for reflection. And then here in the workplace, you're working with the, like for me, I'm working with the people. So for me, the exact same energy I'm creating and I am delivering. And in return, it is helping boost my energy and my happiness. Yeah, well, that was my next question. So it sounds like these things. 27:07 energize you but what do you do to recharge like when you're like okay now I'm tired what does the recharge look like I think for me my recharge is my family and So my weekends are very very secret I will not give my time to things that don't serve my family or my community and It is 27:35 It is that time when I recharge. I learn a lot from my kids. And I think that's a part of parenting. I just never knew that it is a part of parenting. But I learned so much from them. And for me, that recharges. They keep me on my toes. They help. They point out when I mess up. 27:57 Oh yeah, they always know when you mess up. Yep, so, right. And so for me, those are the things where I want to do more and I try to find ways. I'm a reader. I read a lot of books. I think to be a writer, you need to be a reader first. I was never a reader growing up. I became a reader. 28:22 as an adult. You know, past 30, I started picking up a book. I had never read a book cover to cover before. I was really bad at reading. But when I signed up to do my PhD, the tons of reading that I had to do. Oh, you had no choice. I had no choice. So as a result of that reading, I put in so much hours reading because of my PhD, because I knew that... 28:48 I would not be able to succeed given where my peers were in my cohort. And this was my first American education system experience as well. And so I was like, okay, people here read, huh? Interesting. Like, people are reading all these big books, like these really thick books. 29:12 Today I can read. I have a log of all my reading. And now

I can read for fun, which is even better, because I finished my PhD and now I have lots of time to read. So reading is my biggest, biggest area that helps me energize. And then I love to travel. And I do a lot of traveling for fun, where I do solo trips as well, where I'll pack my bag and I'll leave. And 29:40 COVID really was the time during that time that really hit hard for me because of all the different roles as the changes in my career, education. I had started my PhD in 2020. My kids were very young. They were two and three and a half. I always say, oh, we were still potty training when I started my PhD. 30:05 And COVID, everything that came to COVID and being in the house. And so for me, I needed to be very intentional and purposeful about how I take breaks from everything I did. I love and so I started taking solo breaks. I did a couple in 2021 and I did a couple in 2022 and with very short trips. And I would tell my kids that I need to take a break. 30:35 Because when I come back, I will be a better mom. And that's why I need to take a break. And they didn't like it. They would cry about it. They would not let me go. I had a lot of mom guilt. But at one point I said, I am doing this for myself. So when I think about that... 30:53 Friends faith and family for happiness. I would add it's also self like start with yourself first And the good thing about happiness is you can Experiment about happiness on yourself what works for other people may not work for you Yeah, it might be just you know It you might be somebody who who needs to do a yoga every day who? Who wants to be that monk who just goes to the mountains for one full month? You know, right and I think those are the things it's very important to understand where you are at in your journey 31:23 and what fulfills you. And then I think I talked a lot about like yourself and outward, like how you can pour into like a community, your friends and your family, but it really starts with also the first circle, the inner circle is yourself. Man, that's the foundation. I think it's interesting, everybody that I ask that question to, it has been a whole lot of people, but whenever I ask that question, how do you recharge? 31:53 back to your, if you had a down, how do you get back to yourself? It's always never, like, you know, I just make sure I get enough sleep. It's always doing something that almost like, it feels like you gotta be doing something or being with people to get that recharge. And so I find that very interesting. That's the hedonic treadmill that I talked about. We want to keep doing the things and 32:23 But that's what human beings we are we operate at a baseline happiness like I can drink a cup of coffee It's not gonna take me right away up, right? It's gonna keep me in the base time, but it's gonna keep me. Yeah chill Mm-hmm. I'll make a trip I go to some other place travel in a national great But at the end of the day it always comes back to baseline and they're really thinking about Have it have I rested? Well, I think that's yeah, that's that's a no 32:52 brainer for me at the end of the day I put my kids to sleep and I'm in bed. We we have no electronics by like seven o'clock we're like done electronics done everything else is without electronics and then by the time my kids go to bed and by the time we unbind and stuff our electronics just wakes up straight away at seven in the morning we don't have anything between that so I think electronics is important and the other part is I think social media even if you 33:22 comparison aspect which is huge in why there's so much of mental health issues with younger individuals and teens and younger because the aspect of social comparison has become so much more easier now than it has ever been before. Yes. Oh my goodness. I did, I kind of spoke about this a couple weeks ago. I did what they're calling on the streets a digital detox. 33:52 I put the phone down and I turned it off. And during that time I had my phone off because for a lot of us, like for me, my phone is just not. 34:06 for fun is how I send emails, how I do a lot of my social media stuff, how I do my business, right? But like, I got to the point where I was constantly waiting for that ding, that notification, and like checking it and checking it and checking it and making sure I didn't miss an email. And I was like, this is becoming a problem. So I turned it off and it was a Friday and I sat outside by the fire with my family. 34:36 I listened to the wind, I watched fireflies, and I have not felt, that felt so good, it was so refreshing to get away from my phone and be present in the moment. That, like, it's just now a normal practice to me now. This is what I needed, I needed to get away from that, because you're right, I see it in kids all the time. Matter of fact, it was a training I did with kids, they're constantly like this, and they're trying to get that. It is, 35:06 rough out here. Yeah, and the adrenaline flow that you get from something like this, you don't want to put it back down because you want to be on that highest level of that pleasure, right? And it's causing a lot of these health issues. Even at workplace, there's research around if you keep your phone by your side, even if you're not looking at it, there's always going to be a tendency for you to say, oh, 35:36 came and just touch it. Where is this putting it away completely and then working. So ever since I read that research what I've done is I've kept my phone on my kitchen counter especially when I work from home and then I will go work in my office and I will. 35:57 once I'm done and I know that this is where I need flow. So we talk about flow, but if you have a phone that's pinging you with notifications, distracting you and it breaks your flow. So what happens as a result of that, now you're stressed, you're anxious and you have this to-do list and you're trying to get it done. And it's already lunchtime or

it's post lunchtime and you have a, you know, three or three hours maybe before you go pick your kids from school or whatever your evening activities are. 36:26 And you're like, okay, I got to get all of these things done. How do I get it done? And you're constantly moving from one app to the other. You have an email come up, you have a message come up. And I think there's just so much of distraction with that, which causes that anxiety during your workday. And even if you try to remove, one of the ways I do it is I will check my emails only during certain times of the day. 36:55 Thankfully my job doesn't, you know, I don't have to address major catastrophic stuff. So for me it is okay. I think for several jobs I think it should be okay. I think it is okay. I would make the assumption, but if you check it in the morning and then maybe midday and then not towards the end of your day, but just before your day so you have enough time to respond. 37:25 And on the last part of your day, I would say end high. End with something that's easy to do, you'll love to do on your to-do list. There's research if there's like in the restaurants when they give you a bill and then they'll give you a mint. 37:41 at the end, which is a lot of restaurants do that. They'll give you something nice. And the research behind that is that humans, when you end with something nice and high, they will remember it as a positive experience. And some restaurants, there was a research then further that went from there is like, oh, you know what, Corey, because you are such a great customer, I will actually give you two, whatever, candies or, you know. 38:11 and see it right away. You smile. That's psychology like you're saying because you felt important. You felt special. So even in a work day when we do a work when you have the list of things typically what people do is they'll say oh these are the two things I like to do. They're easy to do also. I'll knock them off my list and I'll get to the hard stuff later. And then later in the day you're anxious. You know you've gotten distracted so many times. 38:41 or tension is all going downwards. And then when you try to achieve the harder stuff, you end up, one, not doing justice to that stuff, and two, is equality is not there. And then you end up the day and you're like, oh, what a busy day. This day could not have gotten worse. Whereas when you finish the good stuff, you're like, oh, this is cool. I got this done. What a great day. Yeah, what a great day. You always remember the ending. You can have even presentation. 39:11 you're making a presentation and this is a tip, making a presentation to your leader and you feel like okay this messaging is not great or whatever it's not ending great, try something, keep two or three things at the back of your pocket in your back pocket to finish on a great note and when you finish it on a great note and everyone's motivated you are going to get kudos, you are going to be like oh that you know Corey your presentation is excellent and you'll get 39:41 So I think those are some of the things like the doing positive things and ending on the positive note makes such a huge impact to everything because people don't remember everything else. They just remember how it ended. Right. That's a good word. Thank you for that. Well, again, thank you so much for talking. I could talk to you forever. I know. I just admit. Me too. But thank you. But for those that are listening that... 40:07 Maybe you want to connect with you and learn more. Where can I find you? Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, which I don't use a lot, but I like LinkedIn. And that's where I am. And if you want to have coffee with me, just shoot me a DM. 40:25 That's where you'll find me. Awesome. Well again, thank you so much for being here. Everybody, thank you for listening. I'm not at, like I say every episode, I am not a mental health therapist, but I want you to get the support you need. There will be mental health resources in the description of this episode, on the audio platform and on YouTube. Coffee can't fix everything, but we will have the conversation one coffee cup at a time. I'll have at you next time.