บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Greg Lyons - When the Answers Are Already There

when you're like, "Ooh, this is a bit harder than I thought for this income and this work to come through." Yeah 00:04:55.007 --> 00:05:10.798 I had a similar experience with coach training and recognizing that unconsciously I was sometimes doing some things well, uh, but couldn't intentionally deploy them. 00:05:10.798 --> 00:05:31.007 And that's why when I hear people say,"Oh, I'm, I'm a natural coach." I'm like, "You probably are, and going to get some training will help you be a far more effective coach because you'll cognitively and academically understand what you're already doing intuitively." I just found it made it more likely to work. 00:05:31.048 --> 00:05:37.807 Like, sometimes I'd have conversations with people and it'd go really well, and then I'd have a similar conversation and nothing would happen. 00:05:37.826 --> 00:05:40.466 I'm like, "Oh." Did the coach training. 00:05:40.466 --> 00:05:44.826 I'm like, "Oh, that's because you're not coaching as well in the second one to the first one." 00:05:45.473 --> 00:05:45.903 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:46.204 --> 00:05:46.494 Yeah. 00:05:47.233 --> 00:05:50.774 Now I'm curious, like we've had pretty similar paths career-wise. 00:05:51.283 --> 00:05:54.954 I'd be pretty keen to hear like how you came about coaching too 00:05:56.970 --> 00:06:07.139 Uh, mm, similar, different, and, and hopefully the versions of this story remain consistent across the times that I've told them. 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:07.819 It's 00:06:07.922 --> 00:06:08.252 be checking. 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.839 like an origin story, and I'll have 10 different versions. 00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:12.209 But, 00:06:12.701 --> 00:06:12.982 Yeah 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:18.110 uh, I was an EL1 acting as an EL2 in a government department. 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:22.338 I went to my annual performance discussion with the band one. 00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:37.559 He asked me what development I was gonna do over the next 12 months, and I was working in an IT service management role doing stakeholder engagement type work and enjoying it, but didn't really know what I wanted to be when I grew up. 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:45.129 And so I said, "I'll go and do the next level of ITIL," which was the best practice framework for IT service management. 00:06:46.860 --> 00:07:03.149 And, uh, this band one said, "Well, you could do that, but there's more for you out there. Go and look at management leadership stuff." So I went and looked at MBAs, and my instant reaction to that was, I can see the value in doing that, and I can see why you would do that. 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:08.619 Uh, but I know that that's probably not gonna work really well for me. 00:07:08.848 --> 00:07:11.449 It's just not the right version of study for me. 00:07:12.278 --> 00:07:24.819 Uh, and then I found the master's in leadership and coaching, uh, through CSU, and I thought, "Well, if I do that, at least I'll get, you know, an industry qualification and a university qualification out of it." 00:07:25.581 --> 00:07:25.932 Yeah 00:07:25.999 --> 00:07:31.238 And then, uh, went along to the coach training and just was like, "Oh, this is it. 00:07:31.278 --> 00:07:39.829 How do I make this happen?" And then, you know, tried a few different roles to try and broaden skill sets and work in different organizations. 00:07:41.178 --> 00:07:49.639 Uh, and then was like, "No, I think it's, it's time to go and try and make this work externally," 'cause I couldn't find a way to make it work internally. 00:07:50.709 --> 00:07:53.848 And, and lots… I mean, I was lucky. 00:07:53.858 --> 00:07:59.199 At that stage, I was surrounded by coaches a lot, and so lots of probably free coaching conversations. 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:05.129 Um, and, uh, there were two, two questions in particular. 00:08:05.168 --> 00:08:07.000 Someone said, "When are you gonna do this? 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:08.019 Like, you obviously wanna do it. 00:08:08.048 --> 00:08:18.220 When are you gonna do it?" I said,"I'll do it when I retire." And they go, "So you're gonna wait 30, 40, 50 years to do this thing that you love? 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:22.319 Why are you gonna do that?" And I was like, "Oh, 'cause the super's good." And they're 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:22.509 Yeah. 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:22.910 "Yeah. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:24.329 Yeah 00:08:24.468 --> 00:08:27.290 sound quite as strong out loud as it does internally, does it?" 00:08:27.382 --> 00:08:27.882 Oh. 00:08:28.322 --> 00:08:30.221 But we were in that environment too. 00:08:30.512 --> 00:08:33.360 Well, I had that same… And I still get that question. 00:08:33.870 --> 00:08:39.870 Um, yeah, the sort of like the golden shackles of the public service, 'cause the conditions at Zebra are quite good. 00:08:40.438 --> 00:08:40.979 Mmm. 00:08:41.390 --> 00:08:44.480 It's really hard when you're in that environment to think differently. 00:08:44.581 --> 00:08:47.961 So yeah, that would've been quite challenging, I suspect 00:08:48.846 --> 00:09:04.035 Yeah, a, a good friend of mine stepped out of the public service probably 12 to 18 months before me, and he had young, a young child at the time, and I th- I re- we used to carpool, and I remember sitting in his driveway. 00:09:05.315 --> 00:09:23.515 It was like Friday afternoon, and I go,"Oh." Like we pulled into the dr- like into his driveway effectively, and I go,"What was kind of the highlight of today or what are you looking forward to?" He goes, "Oh, I quit my job." And I said,"Sorry, what?" Like 45 minutes later, I backed out of his driveway, but I just couldn't rationalize it, and then 12, 18 months later I did the same thing. 00:09:24.195 --> 00:09:29.634 And yeah, I'm like, I think I understand it now. 00:09:30.025 --> 00:09:42.447 Um, there's so many… You know, most days I look at my calendar and I go, "How good is this gonna be?" Admin day, not my favorite. 00:09:43.857 --> 00:09:45.967 E- end of month billing, not my favorite.

00:09:46.006 --> 00:09:50.197 But, you know, the rest of it I feel very lucky that that's the space I'm in 00:09:50.894 --> 00:09:51.293 Yeah. 00:09:51.803 --> 00:09:52.063 Yeah. 00:09:52.693 --> 00:09:55.403 Yeah, I kind of feel that, um, as well. 00:09:55.443 --> 00:09:58.344 And I feel lucky that my first career was graphic design. 00:09:58.354 --> 00:10:14.714 I think that's really come in handy right now because that's when I, I was not thinking of that when I was like,"Oh yeah, I'll be a coach. Oh, actually now I've got to market myself. I've got to branding and all that sort of stuff," which is exciting for me, but it was just really ex- you know, unexpected. 00:10:15.432 --> 00:10:15.712 Yeah. 00:10:17.214 --> 00:10:19.094 How are you going with your logo update? 00:10:19.124 --> 00:10:22.754 'Cause you were most of the way through that when I last spoke 00:10:23.294 --> 00:10:28.535 Yeah, yeah, so the great coaching submission with you, I gave you a bit of a sneak peek at the black and white version. 00:10:28.535 --> 00:10:32.235 The color one is up on the website, and yeah, so it's pretty cool. 00:10:32.245 --> 00:10:48.135 Now I'm going through a, uh, a similar branding with a, a coaching program that I'm working on, so, um, but yeah, trying to make sure I'm true to the original design, but still give me enough creativity for me to enjoy it, is the balance right? 00:10:49.085 --> 00:10:50.995 Um, but yeah, certainly, it's been fun. 00:10:51.075 --> 00:10:53.096 It's been fun part of it, yeah, to do that. 00:10:53.596 --> 00:11:00.414 And 'cause I feel like I've been on the other side where I'm being sort of creating designs for other people, not creating for myself. 00:11:00.575 --> 00:11:02.924 And I'm a pretty, pretty tough client to myself. 00:11:02.965 --> 00:11:06.745 So I can be… I'm like, "No, no, you can do better, Greg. 00:11:07.205 --> 00:11:08.085 No, sixth? 00:11:08.125 --> 00:11:09.235 No, do a seventh one." 00:11:09.937 --> 00:11:10.057 Ja. 00:11:10.856 --> 00:11:10.976 Ja. 00:11:11.034 --> 00:11:15.414 Yeah, so I try and work on that little bit of perfection as well, stepping back from that. 00:11:15.424 --> 00:11:17.215 80% is good enough. 00:11:17.495 --> 00:11:17.615 Yeah. 00:11:18.475 --> 00:11:21.264 Don't go for the 100% beautiful logo designs. 00:11:23.374 --> 00:11:23.714 Yeah. 00:11:24.043 --> 00:11:24.533 No, that's cool. 00:11:24.644 --> 00:11:25.203 Uh, that's cool. 00:11:25.203 --> 00:11:30.533 We'll have to include it in the show notes or something so people can have a look at it 00:11:30.830 --> 00:11:31.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:32.480 Great idea. 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:33.100 Yeah, love it 00:11:33.611 --> 00:11:34.081 Check it out. 00:11:34.111 --> 00:11:35.351 They'd give you some feedback maybe. 00:11:36.142 --> 00:11:37.011 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:37.011 --> 00:11:42.861 Um, I am, uh, spruiking to some, yeah, some clientele maybe in the public servant space. 00:11:42.861 --> 00:11:43.351 Like, what do you think? 00:11:43.361 --> 00:11:45.610 Any strong reactions negative or for? 00:11:46.292 --> 00:11:48.701 Um, the ones in the middle, that's all right, I can work with those. 00:11:48.831 --> 00:11:49.302 They're fine. 00:11:49.341 --> 00:11:50.611 But give me the strong ones. 00:11:51.121 --> 00:11:52.150 You, you hate it or you love it. 00:11:52.741 --> 00:11:55.481 So now I'm either on the right track or completely on the wrong track. 00:11:56.878 --> 00:11:56.988 Yeah, that's interesting. 00:11:56.988 --> 00:12:04.128 What kind of grabs us as we work through, 'cause I, I hear you. 00:12:04.128 --> 00:12:08.077 I've done-- See, I've just redone m- two of my websites 00:12:08.878 --> 00:12:09.278 Yep 00:12:09.918 --> 00:12:16.018 just to refresh them and update them and what so on and so forth and what have you, and it, yeah. 00:12:16.756 --> 00:12:27.527 Spend a lot of time like, "Oh, what is that? What if I change that?" Or,"Should it be that?" Or, "Is that, is that the right green? Should it be a slightly d-" Just let it, let it go 00:12:28.443 --> 00:12:28.813 Yeah. 00:12:29.163 --> 00:12:30.514 It'd be like painting the house, isn't it? 00:12:30.514 --> 00:12:32.614 The, uh, w- the shade of white that you need. 00:12:32.864 --> 00:12:34.024 There's so many options. 00:12:34.063 --> 00:12:36.293 When you say green, which green do you mean? 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:36.990 Yep. 00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:38.090 That's it. 00:12:38.389 --> 00:12:38.929 That's it. 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:42.090 What's your favorite thing that you're working on at the moment? 00:12:42.099 --> 00:12:44.568 You mentioned the program, but it might be that, it might be something else. 00:12:44.570 --> 00:12:45.969 What are you working on that you're enjoying? 00:12:46.509 --> 00:12:47.289 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:54.889 That's… I'm working on developing program and, and one thing I love about your book, Brendan, is I don't need to do that. 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:01.948 I don't need to do, do the APS recruitment game 'cause it's done, and that's really needed. 00:13:02.548 --> 00:13:13.688 So I'm working on something where I see a lot of, um, people struggling in that sort of APS6 to EL2, making that next step up, about positioning themselves before they get to play the APS recruitment game. 00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:15.999 So I'm quite enjoying developing that. 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.568 Uh, it's in, you know, probably in the middle stages, not quite ready for launch. 00:13:20.609 --> 00:13:37.350 But yeah, just designing something that just, uh, takes them, particularly, you know, if you've had a good career going up the APS levels pretty easily,'cause you can play the recruitment game quite well that way, and then just a little bit, little bit extra positioning is needed for the next step. 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.688 So yeah, I'm finding that really fascinating, really. 00:13:39.979 --> 00:13:45.899 Really loving it, um, sort of

designing that, um, beyond just the logo. 00:13:45.979 --> 00:13:46.999 I'm enjoying the logo bit. 00:13:47.589 --> 00:13:50.462 But also the program text, pretty cool. 00:13:50.462 --> 00:13:56.210 But yeah, and I find myself saying the same things over and over again, so I'm like, I'm getting the feedback that this is needed. 00:13:56.750 --> 00:13:56.769 Mm-hmm. 00:13:57.198 --> 00:13:59.599 Um, as well as the APS recruitment game. 00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:01.038 That's definitely needed as well. 00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:07.078 So I'm like, "All this can help." So, and that's what I'm in the game for, to help, help others. 00:14:07.214 --> 00:14:07.433 Yeah. 00:14:08.043 --> 00:14:08.293 Yeah. 00:14:09.092 --> 00:14:10.894 And thank you for mentioning the book. 00:14:11.918 --> 00:14:12.398 Price book 00:14:12.613 --> 00:14:16.083 That's an adventure in and of itself, getting one of them written and 00:14:16.318 --> 00:14:16.659 Oh 00:14:17.014 --> 00:14:17.624 thought about. 00:14:17.644 --> 00:14:29.413 But similar to you, I just wanna help-- I want more people to have access to things that I think, and thankfully others have agreed with me, will help get to interviews. 00:14:29.413 --> 00:14:39.744 Too many smart, capable, intelligent, you know, well-educated professionals that just can't get into the interview process. 00:14:40.505 --> 00:14:40.696 Yeah 00:14:41.413 --> 00:14:44.394 And I was like, "Let's, let's just find a way through that." 00:14:45.635 --> 00:14:45.655 Yeah. 00:14:46.505 --> 00:14:55.336 And full disclosure, I listened to your last pod episode, uh, and putting the question about whether is this good or bad for the recruiting process. 00:14:55.346 --> 00:15:02.914 I think it's brilliant 'cause the people that come to me are the people that are doing the job really well, and they're missing out because they haven't got the skills. 00:15:03.705 --> 00:15:12.865 And, you know, if they're not doing it, then the ones that can talk well and can interview well, but maybe necessarily not as strong as them doing the job are getting the job. 00:15:12.905 --> 00:15:14.835 So yeah, I'm right on board. 00:15:14.955 --> 00:15:15.914 I think it's a good thing, Brendan 00:15:17.261 --> 00:15:18.422 Yep, need both. 00:15:18.812 --> 00:15:19.631 Good at the job, 00:15:20.333 --> 00:15:20.683 Yeah 00:15:21.272 --> 00:15:24.011 good at presenting that at interview and talking about yourself. 00:15:25.461 --> 00:15:25.751 Yeah. 00:15:26.241 --> 00:15:27.552 Mm. Nice. 00:15:28.251 --> 00:15:31.350 And w- who, what are you coaching people on at the moment? 00:15:31.392 --> 00:15:33.221 Was there a theme across your practice? 00:15:38.153 --> 00:15:38.173 Yeah. 00:15:38.183 --> 00:15:42.433 Suppose, um, what's coming really strongly is just the, the speed of decisions are needed. 00:15:43.833 --> 00:15:48.442 Um, access to more data is a good thing. 00:15:49.173 --> 00:15:52.114 Um, but the reaction of people is getting quicker. 00:15:53.363 --> 00:16:02.413 So looking at things from a systems perspective, I suppose, and, and really being able to make quick decisions when the ambiguity is high. 00:16:03.972 --> 00:16:13.874 So I'm finding a lot of people coming into coaching at that sort of ex- mid-executive to senior executive, really struggling and grappling with the speed of decisions that need to be made. 00:16:15.163 --> 00:16:22.852 And I think part of that might be is there's not time to get the perfect amount of data, and there's a lot of it. 00:16:23.364 --> 00:16:24.503 Which one's the right data? 00:16:25.393 --> 00:16:34.163 Whether that's, you know, numbers and, you know, numbers and letters of things, or if it's, you know, a vibe of a thing or stakeholder feedback. 00:16:34.173 --> 00:16:35.722 How much do you consult? 00:16:35.734 --> 00:16:37.133 How much can you consult? 00:16:38.143 --> 00:16:47.263 Um, so I think that's what's a big trend that's coming through at the moment, and it's only gonna get more complex, I suspect, going forward. 00:16:47.283 --> 00:16:53.852 So that's the thing that is really relatively, um, new in the last year or so that's coming through. 00:16:54.323 --> 00:17:02.842 That could be just, you know, where I'm sitting and where I'm placed, or it could be more of a, a macro trend across, across the private and public sectors. 00:17:03.254 --> 00:17:03.533 Yeah. 00:17:07.903 --> 00:17:22.778 Just thinking through who I'm-- I'm, I mean, I'm seeing a lot of change and maybe that's Coupled with the decision-making, um Hmm. 00:17:22.998 --> 00:17:26.886 And then just a lot of how do I look after myself and others still 00:17:27.316 --> 00:17:27.625 Yeah. 00:17:28.195 --> 00:17:28.556 Yeah. 00:17:29.536 --> 00:17:29.766 Yeah. 00:17:30.296 --> 00:17:30.605 There's, 00:17:31.096 --> 00:17:31.465 a lot 00:17:32.395 --> 00:17:34.115 yeah, there's a lot of people. 00:17:34.135 --> 00:17:44.586 Like I'm, yeah, I, I'm finding the referencing the toolkit of the Eisenhower matrix is coming up again. 00:17:44.615 --> 00:17:45.415 Not just me. 00:17:46.145 --> 00:17:47.096 They're bringing it up too. 00:17:47.454 --> 00:17:48.705 I haven't said it yet, you know. 00:17:48.836 --> 00:17:57.184 I'm very conscious that that's a favorite of mine, so not a huge fan of models and tools and concepts, but that one is, you know, when there's so much going on, it's so handy. 00:17:57.194 --> 00:18:04.715 And then where to flip out the, you know, the urgent, not important with the not urgent but important. 00:18:05.095 --> 00:18:05.525 That's the, 00:18:06.015 --> 00:18:06.405 Mm-hmm 00:18:06.505 --> 00:18:07.346 big deal at the moment. 00:18:08.434 --> 00:18:10.575 And a bit like your theme of the year last year. 00:18:10.934 --> 00:18:11.115 Yeah. 00:18:11.405 --> 00:18:13.576 Yeah, the unbusy stuff 00:18:13.726 --> 00:18:14.096 The busy. 00:18:15.115 --> 00:18:21.825 How to get unbusy is, um, yeah, that's still coming strong, which then leads into the, you know, how many

hours have you got in the day? 00:18:22.845 --> 00:18:26.494 Um, well, that leads to burnout and need for self-care. 00:18:26.714 --> 00:18:28.865 So that's, yeah, that's pretty strong. 00:18:29.414 --> 00:18:33.066 It's something I grapple with myself, so I'm like totally, totally get it. 00:18:33.925 --> 00:18:34.246 Yeah 00:18:34.990 --> 00:18:35.329 Yeah. 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:55.009 It's, uh, I ask people regularly, um, more in workshops than coaching, but, um, if there was an- another 24 hours a week, another day, your d- your day is what it's called, in your calendar, what would you spend your day doing? 00:18:55.459 --> 00:18:59.378 And it fascinates me the questions I get back just about that. 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:03.509 So people are like, "Is it a work day or a…?" I'm like, "It's your day. 00:19:03.588 --> 00:19:24.959 Do with it what you want." Um, and they go, "Do I get, does my salary change?" I go, "Your salary doesn't change." And they go, "Is it just me that has your day, or does everyone get your day and their expectations?" And it's like,"I think you're overthinking this." But basically what I'm trying to get them to is the, um, not urgent but important stuff out of Eisenhower. 00:19:25.638 --> 00:19:26.089 Yeah. 00:19:26.099 --> 00:19:26.119 Yeah 00:19:27.138 --> 00:19:33.710 Whatever they kind of bubble out from that is quite ins- insightful obvious- sometimes. 00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:34.749 And then I do the opposite. 00:19:34.749 --> 00:19:36.589 I say, "Imagine you lost a day a week. 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:39.828 What, what do you stop doing? 00:19:39.838 --> 00:19:40.159 What do you start doing? 00:19:40.159 --> 00:19:49.398 What do you stop doing?" And they're like, "Is it a work day or a weekend?" Fuck, doesn't, doesn't ma- Le- less concerned about that one being a work day. 00:19:49.398 --> 00:19:50.348 You could lose a work day. 00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:51.160 Uh, 00:19:51.858 --> 00:19:54.009 But they talk about things that are really practical. 00:19:54.069 --> 00:20:06.538 I'd delegate more, I'd read less, I'd focus more on relationships, I'd set better boundaries, I'd… And it's like, well, you can do all that now without gaining or losing a day, so let's get it in the calendar 00:20:08.503 --> 00:20:11.413 I'm curious about what's underpinning that questioning back to you. 00:20:12.087 --> 00:20:12.548 Mmm. 00:20:12.782 --> 00:20:20.513 Have, is something come up or what's, what's happening that… You know, I'm big into finding the patterns of things, 00:20:20.718 --> 00:20:22.218 Yeah, I mean, I agree with 00:20:22.233 --> 00:20:25.353 If I see a pattern there, I'm like, I just wanna delve into what's that pattern. 00:20:26.601 --> 00:20:42.413 I mean, I had one participant years ago when I put it up almost have an existential crisis because he said, um I wouldn't do work. 00:20:42.423 --> 00:20:46.374 And he was in an organization where a lot of people said on your day they would work. 00:20:46.534 --> 00:20:49.243 And he's like, "Does that mean I'm in the wrong career? 00:20:49.713 --> 00:20:51.534 Does that mean I've made bad choices? 00:20:51.534 --> 00:21:03.854 Does that mean, does that mean, does that mean…?" And I'm like,"Well, it's not for me to decide any of that." Um, and it is just a little… I just want you thinking differently about time ultimately. 00:21:04.413 --> 00:21:20.121 Um, but yeah, it's, it, I almost want to just answer those questions straight up when I'm setting the activity up, but it's almost worthwhile just letting it run and seeing what, what they come back with. 00:21:20.121 --> 00:21:26.773 And they usually come back with, with those things, um Yeah. 00:21:26.824 --> 00:21:30.574 Is the, whose expectations is, are being placed upon us. 00:21:31.104 --> 00:21:35.834 And then I had a manager extend it further than I thought anyone would, and I think it was great. 00:21:35.854 --> 00:21:46.472 She went back to her team and said,"I'm gonna strongly encourage you to take a flex day," 'cause her team had heaps of flex, and they needed to, "and I want you to treat it like a your day. 00:21:46.532 --> 00:21:59.402 I want you to go and do all the things for you that you wouldn't normally do And I was like, "Oh, you can… That's cool. Like, make it real. Go and do it." 00:22:00.311 --> 00:22:00.761 Wow. 00:22:01.580 --> 00:22:02.621 That's impact, Brandon. 00:22:03.104 --> 00:22:06.374 Oh, it was, I was blown away for her and her team. 00:22:06.374 --> 00:22:10.074 I was like, "That's awesome." Go and do it. 00:22:10.114 --> 00:22:14.252 Go and make it an, an actual thing, an actual your day 00:22:16.023 --> 00:22:18.253 What a dopamine hit for you as coach as well. 00:22:18.273 --> 00:22:20.313 We don't see those aha moments usually, right? 00:22:20.535 --> 00:22:21.685 Yeah, that was a nice one 00:22:22.243 --> 00:22:23.394 But yeah, wow. 00:22:24.353 --> 00:22:26.113 Impact the whole team positively. 00:22:26.953 --> 00:22:27.273 Fantastic. 00:22:28.942 --> 00:22:29.382 Fun. 00:22:29.451 --> 00:22:29.872 Fun. 00:22:29.892 --> 00:22:36.291 Good, good little activity that one, just to get people thinking and hopefully not breaking them too much. 00:22:40.718 --> 00:22:46.907 Yeah, potentially a bit of comparison happening with the hu- with the, the questioning back at you. 00:22:47.097 --> 00:22:48.617 So that we might be underpinning that 00:22:49.998 --> 00:23:01.777 You know, I just think maybe there's also the, um, I mean, the desire to get things right and understanding of the rules, and the rules are intentionally pretty vague. 00:23:01.778 --> 00:23:03.257 Like, what would you do on your day? 00:23:03.748 --> 00:23:03.768 Y- 00:23:03.854 --> 00:23:04.193 Yeah 00:23:04.627 --> 00:23:07.836 you decide and like, oh, w- in what limitations? 00:23:07.837 --> 00:23:09.728 And I don't… Why are we limiting ourselves? 00:23:10.515 --> 00:23:12.365 Uh, it's interesting. 00:23:12.625 --> 00:23:18.775 Well, there's something

about clarity and as well, you know, something I've been focusing on is clarity for me and the people I coach too. 00:23:19.065 --> 00:23:22.145 But when you said that, my brain was, "I'm heading to the coast." 00:23:22.574 --> 00:23:22.743 Yeah. 00:23:23.484 --> 00:23:23.965 It was clear. 00:23:26.375 --> 00:23:27.445 The sun's out today. 00:23:27.455 --> 00:23:28.565 It's beautiful. 00:23:28.565 --> 00:23:29.826 It's a beach day, isn't it? 00:23:29.826 --> 00:23:30.035 Isn't the- 00:23:31.104 --> 00:23:31.163 I don't know. 00:23:32.483 --> 00:23:36.462 I mean, there's that, maybe that example of us putting limitations on ourselves. 00:23:36.462 --> 00:23:45.213 So like, there's the anecdote of if you ask adults what they'd change about their body, they, you know, less gray here, less of that there, more of that here. 00:23:45.213 --> 00:23:55.534 And you say to kids, "If you could change something about your body, what would you change?""Oh, I'd have wings, or I'd have X-ray vision, or I'd, I'd be able to run really fast." Or you're like, "Oh, okay." Like, yeah, that, fair enough. 00:23:55.913 --> 00:23:57.614 It's just a different way of thinking about it, right? 00:23:58.628 --> 00:24:01.128 Yeah, it's interpreted what's your superpower as kids, right? 00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:03.309 It's like, "Yeah, I wanna be invisible." 00:24:03.917 --> 00:24:04.307 Yeah. 00:24:04.407 --> 00:24:05.307 Why do you want that? 00:24:05.428 --> 00:24:07.377 "So I can sneak out to the cupboard at midnight." Yeah 00:24:08.387 --> 00:24:10.827 I want super strength so I can win the play wrestling. 00:24:11.246 --> 00:24:11.655 Yeah. 00:24:12.395 --> 00:24:13.986 Mm-hmm. 00:24:13.986 --> 00:24:14.391 There we go. 00:24:14.391 --> 00:24:17.766 So yeah, the beach is what recharges you then? 00:24:21.773 --> 00:24:21.794 Yeah. 00:24:21.794 --> 00:24:21.864 Doesn't have to necessarily be the beach. 00:24:21.864 --> 00:24:23.743 So I think the weather is probably tailoring that. 00:24:24.183 --> 00:24:29.503 Um, could be just, uh, simple things like just watching the cricket on the weekend. 00:24:29.503 --> 00:24:30.433 Well, it went a bit quick. 00:24:31.073 --> 00:24:34.442 The test match, it was recharging and going to the gym. 00:24:35.213 --> 00:24:39.114 Um, I'd like to say I'm a gym junkie, but that was the first time in quite a while. 00:24:41.583 --> 00:24:43.153 Good timing, I can say it right now. 00:24:43.713 --> 00:24:48.034 Um, yeah, just a walk or con- connecting with mates 00:24:49.230 --> 00:24:49.240 Hmm. 00:24:50.853 --> 00:24:51.653 or family. 00:24:51.653 --> 00:24:56.673 Um, family is a challenging one 'cause sometimes that also drains you, so you gotta find the right balance. 00:24:57.472 --> 00:24:59.192 Uh, but yeah, certainly. 00:24:59.692 --> 00:25:04.923 Um, the beach, yeah, at least once a year, I'd love to be at the beach to, to regenerate, refresh. 00:25:04.923 --> 00:25:05.792 Yeah 00:25:06.388 --> 00:25:11.089 I'm not I'm not the biggest

beach fan. 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:24.358 However, I recognize its restorative purposes, and every now and again, during a busy period, my wife will find me standing outside in our kids' sandpit, 'cause we've got Sydney beach sand in the sandpit kind of barefoot. 00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:34.490 And she'd just be like, "Is it time to go to the beach?" I'm like, "Yeah, it's time to go to the beach. Uh, let's, let's lock that in and get away, 'cause this is not cutting it. I mean, it's good, but it's not cutting it." 00:25:37.046 --> 00:25:39.326 That's a good sign to trigger in a holiday. 00:25:39.326 --> 00:25:39.536 That's 00:25:39.566 --> 00:25:39.895 Yeah. 00:25:40.175 --> 00:25:42.125 Just like, uh, it's 00:25:42.385 --> 00:25:45.865 the sand bu- sand-bitten sunscreen is a little bit ick for me. 00:25:46.253 --> 00:25:46.723 Yeah 00:25:47.115 --> 00:25:58.940 when you've got this fresh sunscreen on, so I'd be quite happy just up the hill on the grass in the bush as well. 00:25:59.309 --> 00:26:03.970 You know, doesn't have to dance is probably what gives me that recharge 00:26:04.824 --> 00:26:08.776 Nas Nice, nice, nice. 00:26:09.286 --> 00:26:09.935 I like it. 00:26:10.576 --> 00:26:15.596 And, uh, what are your hopes for the rest of the fi- like financial year? 00:26:15.655 --> 00:26:17.434 We're just over halfway. 00:26:17.435 --> 00:26:19.266 Well, we got a quarter left, let's say. 00:26:20.556 --> 00:26:22.875 For the calendar year, sorry, what do you hope to get done then? 00:26:24.905 --> 00:26:30.955 Um, oh, you know, from a work perspective, I'd love to be launching the coaching program. 00:26:30.955 --> 00:26:32.165 I think that's quite feasible. 00:26:32.974 --> 00:26:37.236 Um, got some things in the works with a new partnership with a coaching firm. 00:26:37.695 --> 00:26:39.505 You know, that'd be kind of cool if that paid off. 00:26:39.596 --> 00:26:43.194 I've learnt to be patient about that. 00:26:43.194 --> 00:26:50.566 A few years ago, I would've gone,"Great, we're gonna roll straight to, you know, as soon as the financial year starts, we're gonna be straight in." Yeah, be more patient about that. 00:26:51.625 --> 00:26:55.494 Um, but yeah, after, you know, oh, I've done a lot of retraining. 00:26:55.825 --> 00:27:01.625 Uh, so I've finished an executive MBA, gone through the whole, you know, coach training. 00:27:03.566 --> 00:27:18.596 Uh, I'm kind of landing now, going,"Yeah, what do you do after work when the kids are down?" When, when you're not cramming for an exam or… Uh, so I think it's a bit of me time, I think. 00:27:18.704 --> 00:27:30.694 Yeah, I think what I'd like to get is just a nice, you know, positive habits on, you know, on that sort of fitness, friendships, all that sort of nourishing stuff. 00:27:30.994 --> 00:27:32.295 That's where the focus will be. 00:27:32.424 --> 00:27:38.775 Before it gets into the busy, you know, end of calendar year rush, I think there's a nice opportunity at the moment just to bed

those habits in so I don't have to think about it. 00:27:38.775 --> 00:27:39.684 I go for a walk or a run without thinking about it rather than going,"Yeah, is now a good time? Maybe a bit later." Those habits in, 00:27:45.823 --> 00:27:46.173 Mm-hmm. 00:27:46.923 --> 00:27:47.363 Yep 00:27:48.384 --> 00:27:49.705 I think that's probably gonna be the focus 00:27:50.667 --> 00:27:51.137 Nice. 00:27:52.028 --> 00:27:56.957 Yeah, getting easier as it warms up during fake spring for us to get 00:27:56.980 --> 00:27:56.990 Oh. 00:27:57.049 --> 00:27:58.679 Yeah, that's right. 00:27:58.679 --> 00:28:09.939 It's been quite a mild winter here in Canberra, so I've been waiting for it to hit, and kind of hit a little bit, but I'm still not, I'm still not ready to say it's over 00:28:10.484 --> 00:28:10.915 No. 00:28:11.409 --> 00:28:13.489 From past experience, it can come. 00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:13.519 So, 00:28:13.535 --> 00:28:14.165 not over. 00:28:14.285 --> 00:28:15.244 It'll be back. 00:28:20.147 --> 00:28:21.957 Uh, funny old climate out there, isn't it? 00:28:22.903 --> 00:28:23.503 And what about you? 00:28:23.513 --> 00:28:24.523 What's coming up for you, Brendan? 00:28:26.221 --> 00:28:29.821 Uh, I mean, so part of writing the book, people say that's not the end, that's the start, 'cause then you have to, um, advertise and promote the book. 00:28:36.991 --> 00:29:02.939 So I'm just thinking through different ways of doing that and trying to get it in front of as many people that would be interested and get value from it as I can Uh, and then, yeah, seeing what changes with the updates to website and offering and approach and so forth. 00:29:02.949 --> 00:29:04.859 So fingers crossed there's some stuff there. 00:29:05.490 --> 00:29:15.079 And then I've got a reasonably good platform already, thankfully, of interesting and different and exciting work to do with cool clients and great partners and 00:29:16.046 --> 00:29:16.445 Yeah 00:29:16.589 --> 00:29:17.189 all of that. 00:29:17.199 --> 00:29:18.898 So, you know, again, pinch yourself. 00:29:18.898 --> 00:29:20.259 How grateful are you? 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:20.919 Very. 00:29:21.298 --> 00:29:21.969 Um 00:29:22.611 --> 00:29:24.942 And pat on the back for cultivating that too, Brendan 00:29:25.548 --> 00:29:26.127 Thank you. 00:29:26.978 --> 00:29:38.237 And then, yeah, similar around, um, just reestablishing some foundations, I think would be wise. 00:29:38.317 --> 00:29:57.027 Um, I'm doing better this year, but in previous years, not every previous, but a couple of previous years, in about a month, I'd traditionally get quite sick with a cold or something and, and kind of stumble to the end of the year, um, without much energy in the tank. 00:29:58.386 --> 00:30:00.357 But I don't feel like that at the moment, so that's good 00:30:02.061 --> 00:30:06.061 The coach in me is like itching me to ask, what does foundation mean for you, Brendan? 00:30:10.111 --> 00:30:12.741 You could take that

as a comment or a question if you like 00:30:14.249 --> 00:30:17.710 Something for the structure to stand on, Greg, without falling over. 00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:18.858 That's what we want. 00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:22.848 Yeah, good boundaries, solid, all of that. 00:30:23.089 --> 00:30:24.729 Can I walk you around my foundation? 00:30:28.398 --> 00:30:29.640 But yeah, that's good. 00:30:29.648 --> 00:30:32.148 I like those questions where you just pick a word. 00:30:32.148 --> 00:30:33.338 You know, what does that actually mean? 00:30:33.479 --> 00:30:34.210 Like, oh. 00:30:36.089 --> 00:30:37.278 Really nice coaching approach 00:30:37.921 --> 00:30:54.980 uh, pretty, pretty early on it was like, "I don't know what that means." I'm like, "Oh, am I ca- am I allowed to ask what that means?" So now I ask and like, yeah, so much can come out of just different interpretations of something that is quite general but can be feel quite specific when you're sharing it yourself 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:56.638 Mm-hmm. 00:30:56.648 --> 00:30:57.220 It's fun. 00:30:59.109 --> 00:30:59.648 I like it. 00:30:59.849 --> 00:31:00.429 Well done. 00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:01.159 Good question 00:31:02.422 --> 00:31:02.821 Thank you. 00:31:02.862 --> 00:31:03.942 I love it when someone says, "Good 00:31:04.288 --> 00:31:05.238 Oh, good question's 00:31:05.432 --> 00:31:05.912 I love it. 00:31:05.991 --> 00:31:07.662 I love hearing it and be like, "Oh, that's my job." 00:31:09.758 --> 00:31:10.147 Yeah. 00:31:11.877 --> 00:31:12.228 Yep. 00:31:12.827 --> 00:31:31.317 I did some co-facilitation of a program that had a coaching component in it, and I said to the, uh, when I was setting the activity up, like, "If you don't know what to ask, just ask, 'And what else?' And you can just ask it and ask and ask and ask and ask it." And they were… Didn't believe me. 00:31:31.606 --> 00:31:37.987 And then the way the numbers worked, uh, there was, um, uneven numbers, and so I'm like, "I'll jump in. 00:31:37.988 --> 00:31:39.527 I'm, I'll have a free coaching session. 00:31:39.528 --> 00:31:47.147 Sign me up." And, and the lady asked me, "And what else?" And I was like, "Oh, that's a good question. 00:31:47.468 --> 00:31:52.116 Well done." And, and she was kind of, like, cheekily smiling about it. 00:31:52.116 --> 00:32:00.998 "Yeah, and what else do you…?" And I'm like, "You've got about eight more of them before you can ask another question." And just keep firing it. 00:32:01.897 --> 00:32:02.057 Yeah. 00:32:02.537 --> 00:32:03.346 And they were all good. 00:32:03.406 --> 00:32:05.498 Like, it's such, such a good question. 00:32:06.017 --> 00:32:06.446 Just keep 00:32:09.069 --> 00:32:09.369 Yeah. 00:32:09.369 --> 00:32:10.619 Yeah. 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:14.549 And it's sometimes you gotta warm up your person for what else. 00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:17.898 I got some feedback that they felt I was griddling them. 00:32:18.862 --> 00:32:18.872 Mm-hmm. 00:32:18.898 --> 00:32:21.819 So I suspect I probably went too quick with the what else's. 00:32:23.849 --> 00:32:24.819 So I don't know. 00:32:24.849 --> 00:32:27.480 Or it could've been just the dynamic that was at play. 00:32:28.569 --> 00:32:30.109 But a good what else. 00:32:30.868 --> 00:32:32.179 And then you do that a couple of times. 00:32:32.189 --> 00:32:35.589 You don't need to say what else anymore, 'cause they're adding the, they're adding the else 00:32:35.981 --> 00:32:39.311 Yeah, I like it when they start, and you're just gonna ask me and what else, so. 00:32:40.821 --> 00:32:41.172 I thought 00:32:41.173 --> 00:32:44.874 Well, what I love, I always love that stretch of the what else. 00:32:45.334 --> 00:32:50.693 You know, it gets done, but as a coach you're like, "Is there something else?" And sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. 00:32:51.213 --> 00:32:51.223 Hmm 00:32:52.313 --> 00:32:53.854 The stretch is the value, I think 00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:40.549 So I've just finished the online ACC, PCC marker training, um, through the ICF, and it was quite interesting to engage with the competencies again at depth, 'cause, I mean, they're subtly taught to me in early coach training, but I didn't really know what I was looking at, and then go back to them, uh, and look at them through that kind of marker lens around, um, making sure you ask, um, questions around why the topic of the session is important to them and, um, not only noticing, but noticing and commenting on changes in energy and so forth. 00:33:40.549 --> 00:33:45.689 I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's really useful to dive back into." So, mm-hmm. 00:33:46.125 --> 00:33:46.546 Yeah. 00:33:47.215 --> 00:33:56.385 Yeah, I found the… I don't know whether it's my learning style, but I just couldn't latch on to the markers and all that sort of stuff. 00:33:56.724 --> 00:34:03.955 And then, you know, when I was going through the PCC, I was evaluated as being at least one point probably higher. 00:34:03.965 --> 00:34:06.154 I still don't know what the markers are. 00:34:06.244 --> 00:34:13.855 Like, I couldn't list them for you, but just the act of doing them just seem, seem to be ingrained in the training and in my practice. 00:34:13.905 --> 00:34:15.105 But yeah, it's just coming out. 00:34:15.585 --> 00:34:19.585 But I couldn't tell you what, you know, 3.2.1 or 00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:21.920 Don't ask me 'cause 00:34:21.978 --> 00:34:22.177 Using 00:34:22.269 --> 00:34:22.840 tell you either. 00:34:23.358 --> 00:34:23.418 or? 00:34:26.369 --> 00:34:26.929 Nice. 00:34:27.099 --> 00:34:41.619 But yeah, it's use- I mean, and one of the other benefits is you get to hear other coaches coach, uh, as part of that training and then be like, "Ooh, that's a good question," or, "I wouldn't have asked that that way," or I, I might have tell you, I would've picked up a different thread. 00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:52.059 Um, doesn't mean that any is better or worse, it was just interesting how many decisions we're making in

the, in the moment as coaches. 00:34:54.438 --> 00:34:54.768 Cool. 00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:55.880 Let's jump 00:34:56.297 --> 00:34:58.856 as a, as a group of the, uh… I 00:34:58.985 --> 00:34:59.315 no, you go 00:34:59.456 --> 00:34:59.996 was gonna add it. 00:35:00.447 --> 00:35:05.277 I was gonna say, when you're coaching a group of coaches, that's where the value is. 00:35:05.277 --> 00:35:06.626 Like, you asked that question. 00:35:06.697 --> 00:35:07.967 Why did you ask that question? 00:35:08.817 --> 00:35:11.597 And then you're like, "Okay, cool. 00:35:08.817 --> 00:35:16.117 Okay, remember that question. I'm gonna use that one." But first you wanna know why, why it was asked. 00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:16.860 How did you get to 00:35:16.927 --> 00:35:18.677 Not what the question was, why it was asked. 00:35:18.757 --> 00:35:21.387 What made you trigger, what, what triggered a decision 00:35:21.532 --> 00:35:22.692 Yep, that's it. 00:35:23.217 --> 00:35:23.367 Yeah 00:35:24.431 --> 00:35:27.211 Bit more coaching in front of coaches required, I think. 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.001 Le 00:35:30.572 --> 00:35:33.811 We'll jump into the short, sharp answers, shall we? 00:35:34.961 --> 00:35:38.711 For all these questions, and I will flag as, uh, at the top. 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:44.141 I, I wanna double-click on all your answers to these ones here, but I'm just gonna roll to the next one, just so we're aware of that 00:35:44.438 --> 00:35:46.317 We can always do a part two later down the 00:35:46.318 --> 00:35:46.947 Part two. 00:35:47.708 --> 00:35:47.847 if need be. 00:35:48.148 --> 00:35:48.407 Yeah. 00:35:49.617 --> 00:35:53.248 Uh, so Greg, uh, first one is what fulfills you? 00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:59.010 What fulfills me, I think, is making positive impact for others 00:35:59.644 --> 00:36:02.106 Mm. 00:35:59.644 --> 00:36:02.106 And what frustrates you? 00:36:03.327 --> 00:36:06.916 I've done a lot of work on myself through psychology. 00:36:07.876 --> 00:36:08.916 Nothing frustrates me 00:36:09.237 --> 00:36:10.657 Nothing frustrates you 00:36:12.364 --> 00:36:13.282 A lot of work to get there. 00:36:16.846 --> 00:36:20.704 If you could recommend one book that everyone should read, what would you recommend? 00:36:21.514 --> 00:36:27.943 Oh, you know, as, you know, I am a longtime listener, I thought of recontracting this question, but I found a way around it. 00:36:30.253 --> 00:36:35.014 It's, uh, 10 Things I Wish I, Uh, You Knew About Your Child's Mental Health 00:36:35.342 --> 00:36:35.351 Mm-hmm. 00:36:36.164 --> 00:36:37.612 by Dr. Billy Garvey. 00:36:37.884 --> 00:36:39.143 Now, I'm more into podcasts. 00:36:39.262 --> 00:36:40.583 What a podcast, right? 00:36:40.905 --> 00:36:41.175 Yeah 00:36:41.454 --> 00:36:46.503 Um, his podcast, Pop Culture Parenting, is great for anyone who deals with children. 00:36:46.672 --> 00:36:47.523 Doesn't have to be your own. 00:36:48.753 --> 00:36:56.532 Um, really developing a community where we're just getting it right with cultivating the n- the next generation of our leaders, right? 00:37:00.085 --> 00:37:02.735 What do you… I told you I wanted to double-click, but I won't. 00:37:02.795 --> 00:37:05.295 Uh, what do you most admire in your counterparts? 00:37:06.655 --> 00:37:09.606 Um, what do I worry about them? 00:37:13.405 --> 00:37:16.744 The ambition that they've got and they hold onto and, and progress 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:22.230 What's your favorite coaching question besides "And what else?" 00:37:22.922 --> 00:37:23.581 yeah. 00:37:25.711 --> 00:37:28.711 A bit of a love-hate relationship with what else, so I'll put that up there. 00:37:29.322 --> 00:37:34.351 Um, my favorite question is usually around purpose. 00:37:34.391 --> 00:37:40.742 That's my leaning, but I've learnt to not lean into that, and I double-check, double-check before I answer. 00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:46.681 The most effective question I think comes into the double barrel in the mid-session review. 00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:48.661 How are we going? 00:37:49.422 --> 00:37:49.431 Mm-hmm. 00:37:49.762 --> 00:37:51.101 And where would you like to go next? 00:37:52.992 --> 00:37:53.472 Nice. 00:37:54.431 --> 00:37:56.001 If you weren't a coach, what would you be? 00:37:57.527 --> 00:38:05.068 Well, I looked into it when I was deciding whether I'd be a coach or something else, and it was the user training that, that took me to coach was, um, a pediatrician. 00:38:05.347 --> 00:38:11.586 And I think that comes from personal experience with a lack of access to top quality specialists. 00:38:11.597 --> 00:38:15.327 I think that's where I would make an, a probably even more impact than a coach. 00:38:17.853 --> 00:38:22.793 And final one is, if you could tell your younger self anything, what would you tell them? 00:38:27.405 --> 00:38:32.436 I would probably say the way you've grown up is not ideal. 00:38:33.106 --> 00:38:34.445 Go and get some psychology. 00:38:36.496 --> 00:38:37.465 Go and see a psychologist 00:38:40.556 --> 00:38:41.175 Thank you. 00:38:41.865 --> 00:38:42.644 Good answers. 00:38:43.255 --> 00:38:43.885 Appreciate it. 00:38:43.945 --> 00:38:50.065 And yeah, part two definitely required, but thanks for joining me for our conversation today, Greg. 00:38:50.065 --> 00:38:54.664 It's lovely to connect and hear about all of that, and good luck with launching the program 00:38:55.181 --> 00:38:55.510 Yeah. 00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:56.001 Thank you. 00:38:56.001 --> 00:39:01.110 It's been a pleasure being here, and I find a bit of a, bit of a, you know, a milestone moment in my career. 00:39:01.561 --> 00:39:05.280 Is that from, gone from listening to the pod to be on the pod. 00:39:05.536 --> 00:39:06.204 On the pod. 00:39:06.474 --> 00:39:07.434 That'll be exciting. 00:39:09.405 --> 00:39:09.914 Thanks, Craig 00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:10.202 for having me