บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ How Tim Blake Nelson Mentors the Next Generation of Filmmakers

echo back to your experience with me in a very funny way. So Lisa, my wife and I, decided when Lisa opted to semi-retire which meant she was no longer going to work full-time as a professor, that the combination of the fact that she wasn't working as much and that my business was growing, my company, Red Barn Films, in a quite serious way, that the next assistant was going to work solely for me. And I wanted two things from that assistant. I wanted somebody who was going to help me out with my schedule and not every menial task, but a host of menial tasks, especially when I was going to be on set playing a lead role or even more seriously when I was directing, which is such an all-consuming process, which means just doing everything and everything from interfacing with department heads, uh, and, uh, and dealing with my schedule to getting me a coffee or something from craft services. So it's, um, it's a, a very, uh, it's a tough job and it's usually 12 to 14 hour days also driving. Um, But I wanted somebody who was going to be able to do all of that, but also have ambitions to get into producing. And eventually, ideally, if my company was going to grow the way I wanted it to grow and still want it to grow, maybe then she would or he would ascend into more of a producer role, producing partner role. And then we would hire a new assistant who would work for both of us. I wanted somebody really overqualified. And this is common in the movie business because so many people want to be involved in film and television. So as an example, you'll meet the new assistant of your age and the person will have a law degree or an MBA. And they will have gone to some extraordinary school and graduated magna cum laude. So we, I talked to my manager and she said, okay, I'll handle getting applications and then I'll whittle it down to about a dozen. And then you can winnow that dozen down to a final five. And within a couple of days, she had over 400 applications. 00:06:40 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 00:06:42 Speaker 2: So we winnowed it down to a I went down to five or six after she presented me with the final 12, but it really was down to two people. One was Hannah Blake, my present assistant, who had worked in a chem lab in Boston for two years after graduating with honors in chemistry from Middlebury College. And the other person had worked in VC for two years after having graduated from Harvard with a degree in English. And I chose this other person, but it was very close. It was a really tough decision, because I really liked them both very much. And they both were obviously incredibly accomplished and smart, and brainworked in fields that were outside of the movie business, but their abiding interest in doing movies had attracted them to this job and had also gnawed at them in their previous jobs in their 20s and really were chewing away at their desire to work in any field except for the creative arts and particularly film entertainment they just thought in their

ways I'm wasting my life and I'm going to get caught in a world that isn't what I really want to be doing I want to work in movies so I chose the one in Gondop of Harvard and it had been an English major because I thought well English major, it's probably she's going to be better at reading the scripts, and VC, she'll be better at helping me raise money. Uh, for movies, she's the one that kind of makes sense, even though I really love this Hannah Blake person. She just, there's something about her that just felt even-tempered and cool and unflappable. That STEM background, you know. Uh, But I went with the English major. And the idea was, and I followed through on this, that she listened in on every phone call, be on every meeting, and be by my side whenever I was working. And really learn from the ground up every aspect of how the business works. And it was great for six months. things went really, really well. And then here's where there's an echo with you, because I will share with your audience that you also worked with us for about six months, and you were extraordinary, a complete game changer for my wife and me and for our family. And you were absent, sick for a couple of days at the end of one week. 00:10:10 Speaker 1: It was one day. And I was so nervous. And whoever's listening, I was so nervous because I'm not one to call in sick or anything. And the one day I thought I was going to, you know, not get away with it, but get out kind of unscathed with my sick day. But I'll let you finish. 00:10:31 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:10:31 Speaker 2: I thought it was two, that is. Maybe it was one. It might have been two. 00:10:35 Speaker 1: I think it was one. 00:10:36 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was a Thursday and a Friday. Oh, no. You came in Monday, and I was at the kitchen table, and you said, I have to talk to you, and there were tears already in your eyes. And I said, you're fucking leaving. And you said, yes, I am. I wasn't sick last week. I was doing two trial days with Madai. Help me. And I'm going to... to be Madonna's fish that this entailed that, you know, you were going to travel the world and probably make, I'm guessing two to three times as much money also. And so I couldn't blame you for that. And that was all good. And I'm incredibly fond of you and grateful for the six months that we have with you. And there was no animosity whatsoever. And I was happy for you. Well, this person, And spent six months with me. And it was the same damn thing. She came in on a Monday. I don't think she had done a trial day. She just came in and she said, well, I'm leaving. I'm going to go and be the executive assistant to one of the heads of A24. Oh, wow. Which is a very, very a high-end independent film distribution company. And I think one issue with her was when you work with me, and I know you experienced this, but it's even more the case now, you're just alone at your desk. It's not an office environment here. You're alone at your desk, and you interact with people on the phone, and you interact with me. But unless we're in production, you're just by yourself a lot. She didn't like that. She wanted to be in an office environment and be able to socialize with people. And that was perfectly fair. I also think, I know that she probably didn't get a pay raise going to work for A24 because I pay well. You do. But I think she went to a better situation for her. And so I just called Hannah right up. And Hannah had moved to New York. So I will also say, because I know this podcast is meant to help people both hiring and being assistants. When I didn't give Hannah the job, I wrote her and said, It was a very difficult choice. I went with somebody else for reasons that had nothing to do with your quality as a candidate. And I'll do anything I can if you ever need help. And if you ever need advice, it was a very, I just felt I had said no to a really wonderful person and a wonderfully qualified person. And I think that made a difference when I went back to her. And I wasn't doing it for cynical reasons. I didn't think, well, this other person may leave me and I might want to go back to... I just did it because I liked her. And I hated telling such a cool person and capable person that she didn't get a job she'd wanted. That was... manifestly important to her. She wanted a way to get the hell out of a life that had begun to frighten her like a kind of quicksand. And so what Hannah had done is she said, well, I'm not going to let not having gotten this job deter me from jumping into a completely different profession for which I'm not even in the least bit trained. And so she quit her job and moved to New York. So she flew without a net under her. And she did get a job with, I think it was a foreign sales company. And she was working for them when I called to say, I'd like you to take this job. And she thought that she would give it a trot. And so now she's working with me and it's, it's, it's been fantastic. And I, I shouldn't chosen her in the first place. I stand by my reasons for having went with the other woman in terms of the VC background and the English major, but Hannah is just full and surprised. I mean, she, She does what's called coverage to me. She never trained for it. Nobody ever taught her to do it. I just explained. 00:16:13 Speaker 1: No mailroom experience, and that's very impressive. I feel like a lot of people would not be able to dive in and really thrive in that type of environment having had no industry experience before. 00:16:25 Speaker 2: Right. And I'll tell you what coverage is for people who don't know that. So I'll get a script, and... A script takes about three hours to read, minimum, if you're, you know, maybe two and a half, if you read it carefully and really pay attention to it. And I get several scripts a week, either to consider directing or to help produce or in which somebody wants me to act. And I... And so coverage is you give the script to somebody and they

give it a first read and then summarize it for you and recommend whether or not you should consider it. So it's sort of like what they taught you to do in high school, but a very high-end version of it, when they would say, okay, just give a summary of this book. And she's great at it. And she saves me hours and hours and hours of time. And I've never, initially I checked up on her coverage. So meaning if she said, no, don't do this and here's why, take a look at it. And I always agreed with her. And when she did recommend that I look at something, I agree with her reasons, so she's very good at it. 00:18:02 Speaker 1: That's putting a lot of trust in your assistant, too, for her to say, I think this script is garbage, or I think this script is something worth reading. That's putting a lot of trust in someone for also having had no industry experience, so clearly she's a very smart girl. 00:18:20 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:18:21 Speaker 1: How many years has Anna been working with you? 00:18:24 Speaker 2: We're coming up on two, maybe. 00:18:25 Speaker 1: That's incredible. 00:18:27 Speaker 2: She's now... done almost every part of the business with me. So she's been on set with me as an actor plenty of times. She's been on set with me as a director now. She's been in the editing room. She's been on the mix stage. She's been with me when I color find. So she slowly And she's been with me through all of pre-production and casting. So she has now seen almost everything. And now we're putting the final piece in, which is I'm just going out with a new script to try to put some actors in it and then raise a lot of money for it. And so she's going to help me do that. 00:19:22 Speaker 3: And.... 00:19:25 Speaker 2: We'll get a really good look at how difficult it is to raise money for a movie. 00:19:33 Speaker 1: Sure is. Well, Tim, I admire you so much for empowering your assistant so much because I work with a lot of clients who are directors and who are going on set and they really try to keep it separate. They want their assistant to do their schedule and and their coverage, but they don't bring them into every room or every meeting. And when I meet someone who does and who really wants to better the career of their assistant and help them find their way in the industry, I just really admire it. So it sounds like you guys have a wonderful relationship. 00:20:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too bad Hannah didn't want to be part of the... I mean, actually, just case in point, I wanted her to be a part of this. 00:20:19 Speaker 1: Well, she'll get to listen and hear us talking about her. 00:20:24 Speaker 2: I also... I mean, I wouldn't have it any other way because it, as strange as it sounds, I... I would feel, I wouldn't feel too good about myself if I were to sequester an assistant away from the stuff that's fun and engaging. And that of course is the very reason that an assistant would take a job like this. Because an assistant doesn't take a job, uh, just, just

for the, um, you know, babying the, the diva. Um, and, uh, It's because they have an interest in the field. And A, I don't like to be a diva. And I don't think I am. Although one of the irritating things that Hannah has to do is I play guitar or mandolin on set in my downtime. And I have it in a case and she has to stand there with the damn instrument. And I feel bad for her. That's as bad as it gets though. 00:21:46 Speaker 1: It could be worse. It could be worse. I'm sure she's very happy to do it. So Tim, was there anyone who you assisted or worked closely with that maybe inspired your early career and helps you get to where you are today? 00:22:01 Speaker 2: Yes, but I never had assisted anyone. I had many menial jobs actually further down way further down the run from working in a meatpacking company to the Chuck E. Cheese at making sandwiches and, you know, in a sandwich counter, lots of different, different jobs. But I have learned from everyone. I look at every job as a, as a learning experience, particularly as an actor, because I, uh, the, the industry is changing so much in terms of image capture. When I started acting, uh, there were, I suppose, video cameras, but you would never shoot a movie with a video camera unless you wanted to make a, an aesthetic point. You always shot with film cameras, but then everything became digital and, um, people rarely shoot with film anymore. Um, And the technology of sound is completely different now. We used to, they used to record on magnetic tape. Now it's digital. For a while it was both digital and on tape. And you had a, you're recording digitally with a tape backup called Nagra. And then they dispensed with the backup and it's just all digitally recorded now. And, of course, the image is recorded with digital sensors, as I said. But also the lights are completely different. You have LED rather than incandescent lights. And you used to have these lights called Kino flows, and they're not used anymore. We use these Astera lights. 00:24:08 Speaker 1: And. 00:24:09 Speaker 2: So when I walk onto a set, there's always something new to learn. And so I'll ask people. I mean, I'm a gearhead and I'm a knowledge fiend. And so I just am constantly wanting to learn, watching what the DP is up to and how that impacts the director's work. 00:24:31 Speaker 3: And. 00:24:35 Speaker 2: Obviously, when I work with somebody like Steven Spielberg or the Coens or Terrence Malick, I'll learn from their decades of experience and their approaches that are specific to them and gather everything I can that feels like it might be useful to me in terms of framing and staging and talking to actors. Uh, and that's obvious, but then when I'll work with a first time director, who's wide eyed and naive, but because of that strangely fearless, uh, and is trying stuff that I never could have imagined because he or she is just completely uninhibited in their choices. because they've been jaded by bad experiences, you know, I learn a great deal from that as well. And so, in a sense, I guess I try to take a learner's approach to everything that I pursue. And that, to me, is the soul of part of the soul, anyway, of a great assistant, that there's a zeal that renders even the most irksome task worth it. You know, poor Hannah. I have a, I have a, I'm shooting on a show in Philadelphia right now, At the same time, I have this new movie out called The Life and Deaths of Wilson Shedd that is doing the festival circuit. So I'm going to be in Philadelphia. I'm going to wrap at around 7. And I have a Q & A in Montclair, New Jersey at 9. And she's going to go to the outskirts of Philadelphia and pick me up, drive me to Montclair for me to do this Q & A and then drive me back to Philadelphia. I have a two-bedroom apartment there. She's going to stay in the other room and be with me while I'm shooting in Philadelphia because I have some other events that I'm doing in Philadelphia. I mean, what a pain in the ass to have to drive to Philadelphia and and my minivan that, you know, my wife and I had, cause we, we still have, cause we have these three kids and we haven't gotten rid of this minivan yet. 00:27:36 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I drove that car at one point. 00:27:38 Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. 00:27:40 Speaker 1: It's a rite of passage. 00:27:42 Speaker 2: But she just has like, you know, she just says, look, this is, I also get to be on the set with, you know, you and, and, uh, Mark Ruffalo and, and, uh, and, Watch what that's all about. And, you know, she just has a great attitude about it. And, you know, so what? I got to drive to New Jersey. It's okay. I'll listen to music. 00:28:04 Speaker 1: I think when you're working for someone who you really respect and think highly of, you're always happy to do all of the tasks from the driving to being on set to holding your instrument. I don't think it's a bother when you really are excited to be working with the person. when you're not motivated to be working for your boss, that's when you are not happy to do it. 00:28:26 Speaker 2: But that's okay. That's, that's, that's very nice of you to say, I will say to anybody who's listening to this, who, uh, is going to be a boss or, you know, have somebody assist them. Um, I am so appreciative of Hannah that, um, I do everything I can to let her in on the stuff that's, that's fun. I mean, and she said, I think she's had a really good time, uh, you know, and she's gotten to be on the, the, in the inner circle, as it were, um, on a lot of interesting projects and has met a lot of interesting people. And I think this, is living one of the more intriguing lives of her co-war and not because of me, but because of the world in which I'm getting to operate and my eagerness to include her and all that. And she makes that very easy because she's just a really hardworking, decent, diligent person. 00:29:47 Speaker 1: I hope I get to meet her one day. She's been very lovely over email and the way

you speak about her is so respectable. So Hannah, if you're listening, keep it up. You're doing a great job. Tim, what do you think is something that assistants learn but maybe not learn from the outside? What is something that they've learned from being an assistant that's really different than having worked maybe a corporate job? 00:30:12 Speaker 2: Well, there's an intimacy to being an assistant that is really specific to the job itself. Hannah knows so much about me, not only professionally, but as a father to our three boys. She knows the three boys and their eccentricities, their strengths, their fears. And then she's around because she works in the house. She's around my marriage. And she really knows how I, not only how I relate to my wife and how my wife relates to me, but she's gotten to know my wife really, really well and and helps my wife out with stuff when that's necessary and she can be of use. And she's really, really wrapped up in my professional life and my family life in a way that's just not, it's just, the boundaries are really blurry and that can be bad. I don't think it's bad in this case, but it can be bad if you're not careful as the assistant in your... the person who's being assisted. Obviously, Matthew Perry, you know, that kind of situation where you're... Yes. You're enabling destructive behavior or, you know, those assistants for Harvey Weinstein. I mean... So my relationship with Hannah is an open book. She reads every, I don't have two email addresses. I have one email address and she reads every email that comes through. She has my phone for much of the day and she reads every text. So I have no skeletons in the closet. And I have no secrets. I live a very clean and structured life. And she's a part of every aspect of it. And there's intimacy in that. And if you're not careful, that can be dangerous. Because again, I'm not talking about uh the obvious stuff like all these um guys who end up you know leaving the wife for the assistant i mean it's i'm not talking about that kind of danger which is its own horrible thing um but i'm talking about when like with harvey weinstein when there's bad behavior being enabled Because one person is being paid by the other. Or somebody doesn't want to lose the job. Or the power dynamic is such that the assistant doesn't feel they can do or say anything. And so, you know... for it to work, it has to be a really, really clean situation is, I guess, what I'm saying. 00:34:28 Speaker 1: I think, I'm actually curious, what is your opinion on the Matthew Perry situation from, as a whole, with assistants and bosses? Do you think that was an isolated incident or do you think that stuff, do you think that a lot of assistants would enable that behavior? 00:34:45 Speaker 2: So, I think it's probably more common than not, not as egregious as that. I think that a lot of secrets exist and a lot of bad behavior is enabled, but actually in a kind of weird way. The relationship that I have with my assistants, and this has been true with every single one of them, is really, I go in the opposite direction, and I think that's been very, very good for me. I like the fact that Hannah can read every email. I really do. It's just in every text. It just, it really works for me because I'm doing a lot of stuff and I don't have time for distractions, secrets, and bad behavior. And so the open book policy is great. 00:36:20 Speaker 1: I really respect that. I also think with Matthew and his assistant, from my understanding, they were friends for a while and then decided to work together. And you obviously started off on a professional note with all of your employees. So there are no boundary issues, even though Hannah sees you at home and is around your family. I could argue that if you know someone so well personally and watch them at home and know what their favorite foods are and know how to support them personally, it makes you a better executive assistant because it's important to know all the things about who you work for. I think being a PA and an EA go really hand in hand. And when you start off on a professional note, those other boundaries won't get crossed. I think that's why people really don't like to work with friends because that's when it gets a little messy. 00:37:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I will say Hannah is incredibly professional. And she's also self-protective. So Hannah, she is always early. But she works. She works until 6 o'clock. And she comes in and says, I'm out of here. I mean, she's on schedule. And she protects her own schedule. she has a phone tracker on me. She always knows where I am. I don't have a phone tracker on her. It's like the lines are very clear. 00:37:57 Speaker 1: Yes, that's wonderful. So your new book, Superhero, was Hannah involved in helping you prep for the book? Are you doing a book tour? Do you want to talk about that for a bit? 00:38:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I have a novel superhero that's about to I guess it's going to go into paperback, which is credit. And anybody who's listening, please get... There's a section in there about an assistant. 00:38:23 Speaker 1: No way. What do you talk... Or I guess without saying too much. 00:38:28 Speaker 2: She's also a... It's funny. She's inspired by my experiences with overqualified assistants such as yourself. And it's an interesting... I think worth reading. I just realized that there's a whole assistant character in there. And she has interesting things to say, and she's in her 20s. So... I would recommend it to anybody who's listening to this podcast. No, I had pretty much... written the book by the time Hannah came around. But Hannah did read an advanced copy of it. And she read my first novel as well. Uh, and in part, the, the two novels are set in the movie industry. And so I basically said, you should read them because they're going to very much give you a lot of my experiences. Um, because it's informed by my decades of doing this.

And since you're interested in it, uh, give them a look. And I think she's glad she did. 00:39:52 Speaker 1: I'm sure she is. When will the public be able to purchase the book? When is it coming out? 00:39:58 Speaker 2: Oh, it's out. Oh. So buy it now. It's called Superhero. 00:40:02 Speaker 1: Okay, great. We will link it after, we'll link it on our Clyde account for anyone who's listening. So you can all purchase Tim's book. And I need to read it as well. 00:40:12 Speaker 2: Yes, please. You'll like the section about Theasistic. She comes in, I think about maybe two-thirds the way in. Okay, great. 00:40:22 Speaker 1: I can't wait. So you've done so much in this industry, Tim, from acting in movies to directing them to producing them to writing scripts and writing books. What still excites you about all of the various things that you're doing and the industry in general? 00:40:38 Speaker 2: Oh, I love being on set still as an actor. I love writing and directing movies. I'm excited to do my next one and start figuring out how in the hell to get it made. And I guess I now am really enjoying, uh, pushing this company forward. And something happened, um, about the time when you were working for sure. Us, uh, right before, I mean, a right actor, I guess. I started, I don't know why this happened, but I started to get offered lead roles in independent films instead of supporting roles. And it just, they started just coming. I don't know what, I guess since you hang around long enough, maybe that will happen for you. I feel very, I felt, almost blindsided by it in a really good way. And when that started happening, it was usually with young filmmakers who wanted me not only to play the lead, but help them get their movies made, and in many cases, help with the scripts. And so that involved becoming a producer. And that's been the last 10 years of my life, I guess, by and large. This has been as much as I'm acting in bigger budget fare, in which I'm not playing the lead, because you can't finance a big budget movie with me in the lead. Okay. unless it's a Cullen Brothers movie, I guess, and then it's being financed as it's Joel and Ethan, not so much the cast. But with these little movies, I've become engaged in a much more significant way that has involved this company. And That's been terrifically rewarding for me and also the people who work for me and with me because I bring anyone I can along when I am a producer and the director agrees that the person can be of use to them. One of the fundamentals of our company is that when we come on as a producing entity and when I come on as a producer, it's in support of the director and the director has the final word, final cut, final word on set, final word choosing the department heads, all of that. So, but when I can, I'll put somebody in front of the director and it If the director likes them, it's great. And so that's been really, really rewarding to me as I, you know, my 60s to have this new aspect of

my career as a producer enabling directors to pursue their vision. 00:44:26 Speaker 1: Well, that's very telling of you as a human because I think staffing for films is very stressful and very high touch. So obviously all the directors and folks that you're working with really trust your judgment and your character and your relationships. 00:44:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes they say, you know, I'm going to go with somebody else and that's a okay. 00:44:46 Speaker 1: So what are some of your goals for Red Barn Films? 00:44:50 Speaker 2: To continue, uh, supporting independent movies and push them forward with directors who have, uh, bold vision for what movies can be on movie screens, not TV screens, but movie screens. And then of course I have my own projects that I'm pushing forward and Red Barn Films is the lead producer on those. Amazing. 00:45:23 Speaker 1: So excited for you. And I love that Hannah's along for the whole ride. I'm sure she's very excited too. 00:45:30 Speaker 2: Unless she, you know, goes and works for Madonna or A24. 00:45:35 Speaker 1: I don't think she will. She won't. 00:45:37 Speaker 2: Or the, what is it? The crown princess of Greece. We work for her too. 00:45:42 Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm actually, I'm in London right now and I'm leaving for Malawi tomorrow in Africa because I'm going with Madonna's nonprofit. So four of her children were adopted from Malawi and I've been wanting to go on this trip since 2017. And now finally that I'm not an assistant, I have more free time. I'm working for myself. So I am leaving the country tomorrow to go to Malawi for a week. 00:46:08 Speaker 2: And I'm very excited. 00:46:11 Speaker 1: I'm very excited. So we'll just close off by, I guess I'm really curious. What is the best advice that you could give someone who wants to be a director, producer, writer one day and make it in this industry that is very tough to make it in? 00:46:29 Speaker 2: Read and write. Read as many scripts and novels and plays and pieces of nonfiction as you possibly can and read the paper every day. And write, write, write until as an autodidact you've taught yourself to do it or if you want to take a class, take a good class. and just keep writing and keep producing material. Writing is the foundational piece for this industry still. I don't know how AI is going to impact that, but writing or being associated with a good writer is essential because it all starts with a good script. That's how you attract an actor or actors, and that's how you raise money, that's key. So it's through reading and writing. 00:47:31 Speaker 1: That's great. And how do you think younger folks can get their foot in the door when they graduate college and they're entering the workforce for the first time? What would you go tell them to do? 00:47:43 Speaker 2: Well, if you're not an actor, and actors, I urge everyone to go to grad school, which is what I did. And, and so take it with a grain of salt because everybody thinks that the way they did it is the way to do it. And there are plenty of actors who succeeded and didn't even go to college. So it doesn't mean I'm necessarily right, but it's what I advocate. But yeah, I would say get on a crew. get on a crew by hook or by crook. And there are people, being a PA is always possible. You just have to keep making phone calls and pursue it doggedly. Don't take no for an answer. And once you get on a movie as a PA or a TV show as a PA or in a casting office as If you prove yourself indispensable, you'll get the next job. 00:48:54 Speaker 1: Well, Tim, thank you so much for coming on. It is such a pleasure to have you on this podcast. You inspired so much of my career and I will always cherish the days that I supported you and your family. You guys are so lovely. And it really was such a defining time for me in my 20s and not to age myself, but I'm just so happy to still be in touch with you. So very, very grateful always. 00:49:18 Speaker 2: Well, it was, I'm, I'm, I'm happy for everything you've accomplished. And it was my pleasure to be on your podcast. 00:49:24 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Well, thank you guys for listening in and please go order Tim's book superhero and look out for all the various things that he's doing. He is so talented. So thank you everyone who's tuning in and thank you, Tim and Hannah.