บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Katla Carbon

00:01:45.880 --> 00:01:46.990 first of all, thank you both for 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:48.950 inviting me to this podcast. I'm always 00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:51.590 so excited to talk about what I'm 00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:55.030 attempting to solve. Um actually, we we 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.550 at Katla Carbon were attempting to solve 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.430 two problems at the same time. So, there 00:02:00.440 --> 00:02:03.830 is a a huge problem, climate change, 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.270 and we need multiple solutions to that. 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.070 But, then there's another uh solution 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:11.310 through which I came to this, 00:02:11.320 --> 00:02:13.670 um which is the lack of education we 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:14.790 have 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:18.070 around 122 million girls out of school 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:19.910 around the world. 00:02:19.920 --> 00:02:22.390 And the reason is basically 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.350 uh we're not putting enough funding. I 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.990 think the annual funding gap in 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.550 low-income countries for their education 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:32.070 sectors is something like 97 billion 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:33.390 dollars. 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.630 And there's just a need to get more 00:02:36.640 --> 00:02:39.630 funding into education to get all 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:41.390 children into school. 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.150 And then, surprise, surprise, 00:02:44.160 --> 00:02:46.350 educating girls turns out to be one of 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.350 the most uh impactful climate solutions 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:50.510 that we have. 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:52.070 >> Well, two of my three kids are girls, so 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.550 I'm all, you know, 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:57.510 I'm all about that. 00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:58.350 You know, with your extensive 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:00.870 experience, especially on the ground, 00:03:00.880 --> 00:03:03.590 first-hand experience, you know, 00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:07.630 why hasn't that money historically found 00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:10.670 its way to girls' education? 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:12.470 >> Um I think 00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:14.949 historically, the money isn't finding 00:03:14.959 --> 00:03:17.830 its way to education. The reason why 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:20.630 we're focusing on girls, um is because 00:03:20.640 --> 00:03:22.550 we're um 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.390 tackling this climate problem. And 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:30.070 the reduction in emissions is linked 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.550 with increases in girls' education. The 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:35.430 same is not with boys. That's why we're 00:03:35.440 --> 00:03:37.670 we're linking this to girls' education. 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:39.590 There's a need to get all children into 00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:42.590 education, and the reason is that we are 00:03:42.600 --> 00:03:44.830 simply not funding it.

00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.710 Um the the countries where you have the 00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:51.070 lowest education rates for children tend 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.070 to be highly indebted countries. Their 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.710 annual debt payments 00:03:56.720 --> 00:03:59.350 even outweigh 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.910 their payments to the education sector. 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.430 So, if you know, that relief would be a 00:04:05.440 --> 00:04:08.870 vastly bigger solution than what we at 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:10.750 Catholic Relief Services are doing. If 00:04:10.760 --> 00:04:12.750 these low-income countries would be 00:04:12.760 --> 00:04:14.830 relieved of their debt, they could put 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:16.949 much more funding towards their own 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:18.349 development. 00:04:18.359 --> 00:04:19.590 >> Mhm. 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.390 I remember Bono from U2 was really 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:23.670 involved in that debt relief 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.070 you know, these countries. 00:04:25.080 --> 00:04:27.190 >> still we haven't we haven't forgiven any 00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:28.270 debt. 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:30.350 >> Oh, they have Oh, okay. That was his one 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.150 platform and he was so vocal about it, 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:33.950 right? And they haven't done it. Nothing 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:36.310 has has come that way. 00:04:36.320 --> 00:04:37.870 >> I'm sure some of them have been 00:04:37.880 --> 00:04:40.150 forgiven, but but no, no, we need to do 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:41.710 on you know, 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:43.790 a complete debt relief. 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:45.310 >> Yeah. Yeah, to allow them to have the 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:46.590 dollars to apply to other things that 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:48.470 can actually develop their society. 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.790 Yeah. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:49.310 >> Definitely. 00:04:49.320 --> 00:04:50.350 >> I was 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.190 wanting to understand sort of your your 00:04:52.200 --> 00:04:54.070 origin story a little bit cuz you did 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:55.750 all this work with the with the Red 00:04:55.760 --> 00:04:58.390 Cross and then you you came to this and 00:04:58.400 --> 00:04:59.550 I think 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.590 that'd be a helpful understanding like 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.030 how did you come to this insight like 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:04.670 this is the work we need to be doing and 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.750 and what did you learn 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:08.270 working with the Red Cross because you 00:05:08.280 --> 00:05:10.190 spent a lot of years there? 00:05:10.200 --> 00:05:13.470 >> Mhm. Mhm. Well, when I started working 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:14.870 with the Red Cross, I'm I'm an 00:05:14.880 --> 00:05:17.110 industrial engineer by education, so I 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.110 look at you know, structures and and 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:23.390 processes and and you

know, it kind of 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:26.710 black and white for me. So, coming into 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.190 my work with the Red Cross 00:05:29.200 --> 00:05:31.830 really just starting to notice where the 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:34.550 gaps were. The gaps were never when we 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.030 went into the communities with our local 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.470 Red Cross Red Crescent partners 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.110 having a dialogue with you know, the the 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.270 the chiefs of the community or the 00:05:45.280 --> 00:05:47.750 village committees or even the parents, 00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:49.550 or the children, 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:51.950 uh everyone agreed that education was 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:55.670 important for boys and girls. However, 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:56.830 um 00:05:56.840 --> 00:05:59.230 when the funding was so limited, and 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:03.430 they needed water points, they needed um 00:06:03.440 --> 00:06:06.470 fuel for their cook stoves, they needed, 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.230 you know, wash sanitation, and and 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:13.110 buildings, and all of these things, um 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:18.030 survive it it's it's the poverty is so 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.270 it's such a big factor that you just 00:06:20.280 --> 00:06:23.270 prioritize things to survive and for 00:06:23.280 --> 00:06:25.430 your family to survive. 00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:27.230 And for girls, 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.670 especially girls once they finished 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.790 primary education, they'll go into their 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:36.670 teenage years, um they are often 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:38.310 I mean, they I don't want to say they're 00:06:38.320 --> 00:06:41.230 a financial burden, but really they are 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:43.950 often age where, you know, nice men 00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:45.550 might 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.030 bring proposals to the village, and and 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.070 so families and the girls themselves 00:06:51.080 --> 00:06:53.750 might be more likely to accept the 00:06:53.760 --> 00:06:57.470 proposal than to go to school, where you 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.470 would have to pay for books and 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.590 uniforms, sometimes even school fees, 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:07.310 and the opportunities to make use of 00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:10.270 this education might not be very big. 00:07:10.280 --> 00:07:12.110 They don't see it in their communities, 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:13.909 because very unlikely are they going to 00:07:13.919 --> 00:07:16.909 go to university and become, you know, 00:07:16.919 --> 00:07:19.790 doctors or lawyers or something. 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:21.270 Um 00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:22.990 I forget what the question was, but I'm 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.710 hope I hope I'm getting to the answer. 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:26.750 >> No, no, it's Well, no, it's just it was 00:07:26.760 -->

00:07:28.670 interesting cuz you've you've worked in 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.950 the community, so it's like coming to an 00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:34.750 understanding of uh after working in 00:07:34.760 --> 00:07:37.190 within these communities, 00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:38.670 that hey, there's a climate question 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.030 here, because obviously in some ways 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:44.270 you're trying to solve this problem of 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:46.030 how do we educate more girls, seeing the 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:47.310 impact of that. 00:07:47.320 --> 00:07:47.670 >> Yeah. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:48.790 >> Um 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.150 and fighting for for funding, fighting 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.270 for resources for these communities 00:07:54.280 --> 00:07:54.670 >> Mhm. 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.950 >> so that they can they can develop and um 00:07:57.960 --> 00:07:59.470 but how did that translate into hey, 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:01.750 this is a climate solution? Was there a 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:02.590 >> Yeah. Yeah. 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:03.430 >> an aha moment? 00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:07.750 >> for you? Yeah. So so education is 00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:10.990 the strongest tool in our toolbox to 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:14.230 bring down rates of child marriage uh 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.190 and early teen pregnancies because when 00:08:16.200 --> 00:08:18.630 girls are in school, they're way less 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:21.030 likely to be married young. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.909 Um and back in 2000 and you know, this 00:08:23.919 --> 00:08:25.990 is what everyone knows, you know, in in 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.710 in this field uh that I was working in 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.630 but we didn't really 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:32.469 take it further to connect it with the 00:08:32.479 --> 00:08:35.510 climate. Um what happened back in I 00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:37.589 think it was 2017, there was a book 00:08:37.599 --> 00:08:39.589 called Drawdown. 00:08:39.599 --> 00:08:43.310 Um that I and I recommend everyone goes 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.470 to drawdown.org. 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:47.670 Um it's a it's a group of scientists, 00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:50.510 climate scientists, activists who who 00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:54.670 keep a a very thorough list and 00:08:54.680 --> 00:08:57.550 information on the science behind all 00:08:57.560 --> 00:08:59.470 the many different climate solutions 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.230 that the world has today. 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.870 When the book came out back in 2017, 00:09:03.880 --> 00:09:06.230 they ranked the solutions 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.230 in terms of impact, I think impact per 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:12.030 dollar or impact possible. Uh and girls' 00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:14.870 education was named I think number five 00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:16.430 or six. 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.990 And here I was frustrated that we never 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.630

had enough funding for our programs and 00:09:21.640 --> 00:09:24.230 we had to like select girls for the 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.270 programs. We couldn't really get every 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:28.910 girl that needed in school and here we 00:09:28.920 --> 00:09:30.030 had 00:09:30.040 --> 00:09:31.670 the fact that this was a climate 00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:34.070 solution because of course when we when 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.390 we lower rates of child marriage and 00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:38.790 teenage pregnancy. This affects how the 00:09:38.800 --> 00:09:41.430 population grows in the future because 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.270 women start having children later in 00:09:43.280 --> 00:09:45.310 life. Um they're more empowered when 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:46.990 they have a specifically when they have 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.110 secondary education, they're way more 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:51.670 likely to have more knowledge on sexual 00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:54.390 and reproductive health, to know about 00:09:54.400 --> 00:09:55.430 you know, s- 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.870 the importance of family planning and so 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:00.470 on and so forth. So, this all translates 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:05.030 into basically smaller families, which 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:07.270 lessens the demand for resources and 00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:10.830 housing and food and energy and so on. 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:12.070 So, 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:15.710 when the book came out back in 2017, 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.390 and I remember discussing it with people 00:10:18.400 --> 00:10:21.430 and naively thinking, "Wow, now climate 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:23.230 finance is going to come flowing in to 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.310 girls' education around the world and 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:27.750 this gap can be filled and we can, you 00:10:27.760 --> 00:10:30.070 know, check and move on to the solving 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:31.750 the next problem." 00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:34.990 And I think it was something like 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.270 three almost four years that I waited 00:10:38.280 --> 00:10:40.510 for for this to happen. 00:10:40.520 --> 00:10:42.350 And no one seemed to be paying any 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.190 attention to it. Although there were 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:45.950 more books written 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.750 uh on the topic, there were articles, 00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:50.510 you know, being published on the 00:10:50.520 --> 00:10:52.030 importance of increasing girls' 00:10:52.040 --> 00:10:55.750 education um for the climate. The IPCC 00:10:55.760 --> 00:10:57.470 in their I think it was their fifth 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:59.790 assessment report, they specifically 00:10:59.800 --> 00:11:01.829 talk about female educational 00:11:01.839 --> 00:11:04.230 attainment. So, all of the scientists 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.110 were pointing to this. 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.030 Yet, no one was using it to say, "Okay, 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:12.550 let's channel just some climate finance 00:11:12.560 --> 00:11:14.590 to raising girls' education levels." And 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:18.310 I eventually just my patience ran out. I 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:19.510 thought, 00:11:19.520 --> 00:11:21.430 "I have this degree in engineering and 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:23.510 I'm, you know, 00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:25.390 I could try to gather a team and and see 00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:27.390 if we can do something." And now, what, 00:11:27.400 --> 00:11:30.070 five years later, six years later, 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:32.110 um we're we're doing that. 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.470 >> We're we're huge friends of um, you 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.310 know, fans of Project Drawdown. I mean, 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:38.550 phenomenal 00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:40.590 phenomenal program, lots of great stuff 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:42.390 that they're doing, you know, 00:11:42.400 --> 00:11:44.190 and uh we're I I have their book on my 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.070 shelf right there, you know, all the 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:48.590 things that they've done to give, you 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:51.470 know, um visibility to, you know, all 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.430 these things that we can be doing, you 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.670 know, to to attack on this problem, you 00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:59.430 know, and and I think, you know, and I'd 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.030 like to touch on this deeper, although 00:12:01.040 --> 00:12:02.710 you just skimmed it, you know, we have 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:04.150 girls' education, we have climate 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:06.310 change, right? And the catalyst is 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.990 financing, right? And money moves in 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:10.950 these things. So, you came up with an 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:13.030 idea of how to connect all of those 00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:15.350 dots, you know, to create a funding 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.510 source, you know, that you can then 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:19.350 leverage to do these things. Why don't 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.950 we talk a little bit about, you know, 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.750 that side uh of the work you're doing? 00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:28.870 >> Yeah, so so what what we developed, so 00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:30.630 we we gathered a small team of 00:12:30.640 --> 00:12:33.110 scientists who work because the people 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.230 working on girls' education and climate 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.990 don't tend to often be, you know, 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.070 working together, although, you know, 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.350 maybe more in terms of adapting to 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.150 climate change or, you know, risk 00:12:45.160 --> 00:12:47.270 minimizing risk, but but we brought 00:12:47.280 --> 00:12:49.510 these scientists together. 00:12:49.520 --> 00:12:51.430 Um, we found 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.670 I was introduced to my colleague, Dr.

00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:59.350 Camille Bellman, um and we gathered a 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.750 group of, you know, we had a wonderful 00:13:01.760 --> 00:13:04.110 scientific advisory board, 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.910 uh people who were just as frustrated as 00:13:06.920 --> 00:13:09.350 we were that all of these scientific 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.190 reports were just collecting dust. And 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.870 so, we it took us a few years and we got 00:13:14.880 --> 00:13:16.870 some uh development grant funding from 00:13:16.880 --> 00:13:19.310 the Icelandic Tech Development Fund and 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.950 the Icelandic Climate Fund to develop a 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:23.790 methodology 00:13:23.800 --> 00:13:28.470 and a quantification model to measure 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.870 um the climate impact of raising girls 00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:33.310 education level. So basically, what we 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:36.230 do I mean this is all we use the models 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.710 that are being used 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.550 to 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:43.350 make projections about global 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.110 emissions 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.830 and we use it 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.790 working with population growth curves, 00:13:49.800 --> 00:13:51.710 how they are estimated to change in the 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.390 coming years and then we change the 00:13:54.400 --> 00:13:56.870 factors of girls education because girls 00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:58.870 education like I said before it's one of 00:13:58.880 --> 00:14:01.790 the most impactful thing to lower child 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:03.270 pregnancy rates and 00:14:03.280 --> 00:14:05.310 child marriage rates. So this all 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:06.950 impacts how 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:11.510 the the global population curves act. So 00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:14.230 we developed this model to quantify this 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:18.230 per girl over a long-term intense CO2. 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.190 So basically, by ensuring one more girl 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.390 is educated that did not have an 00:14:23.400 --> 00:14:26.510 opportunity to be educated, how many 00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:30.230 tons CO2 that can potentially prevent in 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.829 the future and then of course we run 00:14:31.839 --> 00:14:33.230 this on 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.550 you know, this is large a large model 00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:37.670 run on you know, high-performance 00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:40.550 computing. We run it multiple times to 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:43.190 get the you know, as accurate results as 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.550 possible. We have you know, ranges and 00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:49.070 we we always pick the lowest range. We 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:52.790 always pick the most conservative 00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:57.510 factors for everything because um 00:14:57.520 --> 00:14:59.590 to be able to measure in tons CO2, what 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:01.950 you definitely don't want to do is to 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.630 overestimate because we're all you know, 00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:06.470 trying to solve this problem of lowering 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.990 emissions and 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.950 really the the worst thing you can do 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.150 here is to overestimate. So once we have 00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:16.550 we have developed this model, what we do 00:15:16.560 --> 00:15:19.150 is we work with local education actors. 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:21.990 So we work with civil society actors who 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.670 are experts at getting the girls who are 00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:28.590 the most vulnerable, most marginalized, 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.070 that have absolutely no chance 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.230 of going to secondary education. Our 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.430 focus is secondary education. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:38.030 Um mainly due to poverty, their parents 00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:40.270 cannot pay school fees, they cannot pay 00:15:40.280 --> 00:15:43.630 for the books, the uniforms. Um 00:15:43.640 --> 00:15:45.670 very often these girls, the most 00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:47.750 marginalized girls, often tend to live 00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:50.630 in very rural areas and there simply 00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:52.870 aren't enough uh schools in the rural 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:55.030 area. So, they always have to if they 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:56.630 want to go to school, they they have to 00:15:56.640 --> 00:15:59.870 go to boarding and those costs are just 00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:02.630 you know, impossible for for people who 00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:05.670 live in such such poverty. So, these 00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:07.430 civil society actors, they're the 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.510 experts on the ground. 00:16:09.520 --> 00:16:11.150 They have been working within the 00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:12.750 communities 00:16:12.760 --> 00:16:14.710 um for decades. 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:15.590 Um 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.350 they speak the same language, they're of 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.710 the same culture, they understand the 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:22.990 problems and they are the experts at 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.230 getting these girls and bringing them to 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.710 school and what they need is what we can 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.670 bring, which is funding. So, we do the 00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:31.910 quantifications, they do what they are 00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:34.270 experts at, we do what we are experts at 00:16:34.280 --> 00:16:37.510 and we uh open up really a channel to 00:16:37.520 --> 00:16:39.950 climate funding um and what we've been 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.230 doing so far for the past 5 years is to 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.270 use corporate climate funding because 00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:45.790 corporations 00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:47.470 uh around the world, of course, they're

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.390 becoming more and more ambitious with 00:16:50.400 --> 00:16:52.070 their climate goals and their 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.390 sustainability goals. Um 00:16:55.400 --> 00:16:57.310 and there's there's so many different 00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.470 things that you can do, you know, within 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.110 a company, but one thing is certain, you 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.230 can never ever completely avoid any 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:06.790 emission. There's always going to be 00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:09.910 some emissions. So, what we are focusing 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:15.030 on is to get these companies to um 00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:17.630 agree to Many of them want to ahead of 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.390 time, but to agree to kind of compensate 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.949 for their, you know, decades worth of 00:17:22.959 --> 00:17:25.590 historical emissions and their current 00:17:25.600 --> 00:17:27.829 emissions because they cannot go to to 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.750 zero overnight. So, to compensate for 00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:33.950 these emissions by investing in climate 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.790 action elsewhere, 00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:37.710 what these companies tend to do, what we 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:39.950 all know, it they they participate in 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.270 some tree planting initiatives, 00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:43.990 um, 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.630 or, you know, forestation, to protecting 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.550 forests, wetland restorations, and of 00:17:49.560 --> 00:17:51.270 course there's more and more, you know, 00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:54.110 green technology coming. But, what is 00:17:54.120 --> 00:17:56.950 definitely needed uh, in this carbon 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.310 market are climate solutions that first 00:18:01.320 --> 00:18:05.070 and foremost benefit the communities 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:06.430 that are on the frontlines of the 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:09.350 climate crisis, the communities that had 00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.670 nothing to do with causing climate 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:12.870 change. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.190 And the carbon market wasn't designed 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.310 for that. So, we're really trying to 00:18:17.320 --> 00:18:20.350 push, you know, really push this 00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:22.590 solution into the climate into the 00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:24.550 carbon market so that we can channel 00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:27.390 climate finance for girls' education. 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:28.990 >> It's a big idea. 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.150 >> Yeah, there's so much, you know, on the 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:32.590 uh, on the webs, your website, 00:18:32.600 --> 00:18:34.230 kailacarbon.com, 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.750 and then if under impact, I mean, 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:38.110 one of the things that's that's 00:18:38.120 --> 00:18:40.670 interesting is the the impact is 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.510 exponential on the education piece. So, 00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:46.590 um, it's, you know, health and 00:18:46.600 --> 00:18:49.910 well-being, it's it's education. It's as 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.870 we move into a hotter, drying planet in 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.430 many of these places where these uh, 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.910 women and girls are, there's resilience 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.150 to climate change, right? Like, people's 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.830 livelihoods are changing and so the 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:07.230 education piece also feeds into 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.350 adaptability to 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:09.950 uh, 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:10.990 you know, 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.430 where we're going. But, I was wondering 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.030 if you could um 00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:17.150 you know, I feel like in the climate 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.710 space or even with like carbon credits 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:21.550 and different things like 00:19:21.560 --> 00:19:23.390 there's a lot of numbers and data that 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:26.550 get thrown around. But what's really um 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:28.350 sort of meaningful about the work that 00:19:28.360 --> 00:19:30.350 you're doing is it's really it's 00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:32.310 people's lives. Immediately people's 00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:34.550 lives are impacted and I just was 00:19:34.560 --> 00:19:36.790 wondering if you had any stories 00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:37.390 um 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.590 from the work that you've done, from the 00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:41.110 folks that you're working with in these 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:43.790 communities that were impactful to you, 00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:45.070 that you're like, all right, I'm going 00:19:45.080 --> 00:19:47.230 to keep on I'm going. 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.270 Um stories that have happened over the 00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:51.790 the years of your work that really 00:19:51.800 --> 00:19:53.350 inspire you and that 00:19:53.360 --> 00:19:54.830 would be uh 00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:55.310 >> Mhm. 00:19:55.320 --> 00:19:58.670 >> interesting for people to to know about. 00:19:58.680 --> 00:19:59.830 >> I mean 00:19:59.840 --> 00:20:01.590 I I think we all agree. I mean, there's 00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:05.110 really no need to explain why education 00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:07.830 is important for for any child, right? 00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:10.550 It it's fundamental. 00:20:10.560 --> 00:20:13.390 And without education 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:15.710 uh in these communities that I have, you 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:16.790 know, 00:20:16.800 --> 00:20:19.190 been with for the past more than a 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.950 decade now, um you can really just see 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:24.950 what education does 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.710 um 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.510 just in in you know, pride and dignity, 00:20:29.520 --> 00:20:32.030 um just knowledge. And And if you just

00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:34.950 imagine a girl that is not going to 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.950 school, she is not just going to be at 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:39.790 home helping her mother with the 00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:43.350 housework. Like I said, she is I mean, 00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:46.150 she is another mouth to feed. She can't 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.510 work really. So, she will be married. 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:54.230 Um a girl who is married at say 14, 15 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.070 doesn't have, you know, of course enough 00:20:57.080 --> 00:20:58.830 life experience, of course, but she 00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:01.630 doesn't also she doesn't have knowledge 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:04.150 to be kind of an equal partner 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.590 in any marriage, in any relationship. 00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:09.430 And I mean, these can be perfectly nice 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.550 gentlemen that they're marrying. I I I 00:21:11.560 --> 00:21:13.910 don't like to think about I mean 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.630 I don't like to kind of promote the myth 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.750 that, you know, of course there are 00:21:18.760 --> 00:21:21.470 forced marriages. But but 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.030 vastly 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:26.030 this is pushed because of poverty. 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:27.870 And, you know, just uh 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:28.510 um 00:21:28.520 --> 00:21:30.550 desperation, I guess. 00:21:30.560 --> 00:21:33.030 Um and often the girls and the boys are 00:21:33.040 --> 00:21:34.590 of the same age. 00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:37.150 Right? And they're put out to kind of be 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:39.470 married and and be on their own, start 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.190 their own household. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:43.710 Um but just seeing girls visiting 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.190 schools where you're supporting girls in 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.710 school and you can just see how how they 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.670 are so much more 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.550 uh able to speak and and and be open and 00:21:56.560 --> 00:22:02.390 proud and um kind of accepting 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.470 Uh I don't even know how to explain it. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.430 Just speaking with girls who are not in 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:07.990 school in the communities who have been 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.350 married since 14, maybe have, you know, 00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:13.470 three children already by the time 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:15.150 they're 19. 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.230 Um 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:17.750 their life is 00:22:17.760 --> 00:22:19.350 is it's hard. 00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:21.150 Their life is 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.110 taking care of their children, often 00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:26.070 taking care of their husband's parents 00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:28.710 or grandparents, even fetching water, 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:30.230 fetching 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.750 firewood. This is what their days 00:22:32.760 --> 00:22:35.350 consist of. While the girls 00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:37.310 at the same age 00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:39.550 are in school without any other 00:22:39.560 --> 00:22:42.190 responsibility than just to kind of 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:44.350 feed their mind and their brain and and 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:46.030 and learning that there are 00:22:46.040 --> 00:22:47.550 opportunities 00:22:47.560 --> 00:22:52.710 beyond what they see in their village. 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.390 >> Yeah, that's so inspiring, seriously, 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:57.190 you know, cuz what I hear is, you know, 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.110 you have a situation where there are 00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:03.430 basically no options other than this. 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.550 Right? Cuz the family in their situation 00:23:05.560 --> 00:23:07.110 isn't going to be able to send you to 00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:09.070 school. Right? Even though we all know 00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:10.870 why that's so important. So, you know, 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.550 you're creating 00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:14.910 a bridge to another option. And the 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.750 option is that you know, we can provide 00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:20.630 these resources to help you get a better 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.230 path, a different path. So, now, you 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.750 know, your only option isn't marriage. 00:23:25.760 --> 00:23:27.510 It's education. And it opens up 00:23:27.520 --> 00:23:29.470 pathways. You know, pathways that 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:30.910 wouldn't have been available to you. And 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:32.070 then when you come out of the other side 00:23:32.080 --> 00:23:34.150 of that education process, you know, 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.990 like you talked about previously, you're 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.790 more educated about the ways of the 00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:41.030 world, about yourself, you know, about 00:23:41.040 --> 00:23:43.870 these things. So, you're more than just, 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:46.910 you know, hanging on to your mom's apron 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.830 strings waiting for the husband to come 00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:50.870 along. What an exactly 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.950 What an opportunity that represents. 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:54.750 You know? 00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:56.670 >> Yeah. 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:57.910 >> Yeah, go ahead. 00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:59.990 >> It is an opportunity. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.990 Um, but I I always feel um 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.990 a 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.590 This is a right that the girls should 00:24:07.600 --> 00:24:08.470 have. 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:08.790 >> Yes. 00:24:08.800 --> 00:24:11.750 >> It's not a right to be given to them. It 00:24:11.760 --> 00:24:13.750 is a right that is being taken away from 00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:14.870 them 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.590 by us, by the world through not ensuring 00:24:18.600 --> 00:24:20.910 that they have

their basic rights 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.470 fulfilled, right? So, I feel like And 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.110 and so often when you visit these 00:24:25.120 --> 00:24:26.750 communities or these girls, they're so 00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.910 appreciative and thankful. And it I 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.150 mean, there's a big cultural difference. 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.270 And I always try to instill in them like 00:24:34.280 --> 00:24:36.750 more of an anger, like, you know, we 00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:38.950 should have this education. Why are not 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.430 all of the girls in our community 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:41.750 educated? 00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:42.110 >> Right. 00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:44.110 >> Um, often they don't understand what the 00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:46.070 hell I'm talking about. But but because 00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.230 they're so used to this being kind of a 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.910 charitable thing, which is so 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:52.910 upsetting to me. I you know. 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:55.670 >> Can you talk about the the triple impact 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.070 of the current credit a little bit or 00:24:58.080 --> 00:24:59.830 cuz this is this is a big part of it, 00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:00.750 right? Is 00:25:00.760 --> 00:25:03.270 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, normally in the in the 00:25:03.280 --> 00:25:04.910 carbon market, like I said, I mean, you 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:06.510 have tree planting, you have wetland 00:25:06.520 --> 00:25:08.430 restoration, you have all, I mean, these 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.350 big tech technological things. Um 00:25:12.360 --> 00:25:14.470 and and what they all have in common is 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.830 that they count in tons CO2, how much 00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:19.910 they can either prevent from being 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.950 emitted or sucked out of the atmosphere, 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.830 you know, a tree or a machine. Um 00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:29.230 But what And and and very often, I mean, 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:32.430 the carbon market has been criticized 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:33.710 for 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:35.710 similar to what I was saying before. I 00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:38.270 mean, this is not designed for the the 00:25:38.280 --> 00:25:40.070 marginalized, you know, climate 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:41.950 vulnerable communities. This is designed 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:44.150 for like tangible, 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.190 um you know, well-known solutions that 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.910 fit nicely within the the um 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.310 the worksheet of the sustainability 00:25:53.320 --> 00:25:56.270 officer in a a corporation, you know, in 00:25:56.280 --> 00:25:59.590 a western city. It's not designed to 00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:01.230 kind of 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:05.510 benefit social development, right? 00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:07.550 Um so, what 00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:09.550 And it's been criticized,

the carbon 00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:12.190 market, for not doing this. Um so, what 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.150 what many projects on the carbon market, 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:17.470 they're trying to kind of evolve them to 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:21.150 include more kind of social impact, I'd 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.950 say. They they, you know, they 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:27.310 are documenting which SDG they they are 00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:29.190 supporting. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:31.870 Very often, I I I kind of 00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:33.110 you know, 00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:35.870 I wonder how in the world does your tree 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.670 planting project, you know, 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.510 support, for example, SDG 5, 00:26:42.520 --> 00:26:44.830 gender equality. Okay, maybe there are 00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:46.710 some women planting trees. This is an 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.950 opportunity for them. Great. That's 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.310 wonderful. Um but then you have all 00:26:51.320 --> 00:26:53.070 these tech solutions and and and 00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:55.390 different things that really happen in 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:57.790 the wealthier nations. What is different 00:26:57.800 --> 00:26:59.630 with Catholic Carbon is that we're I 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.590 mean we're approaching this not from the 00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:04.550 carbon perspective. We're approaching 00:27:04.560 --> 00:27:07.550 this from a development perspective. And 00:27:07.560 --> 00:27:10.830 when you educate girls, you 00:27:10.840 --> 00:27:13.670 improve I think education really touches 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.910 upon every single sustainable 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.390 development goal that there is. Um, 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.630 health for example, 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:22.990 children of literate mothers are 50% 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.710 more likely to live to the age of five. 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:27.830 Um, their children are better nourished. 00:27:27.840 --> 00:27:31.070 That comes into SDG two. 00:27:31.080 --> 00:27:33.950 Um, you have quality education for, you 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:38.470 know, inclusive um, and more 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.990 equitable education. You have gender 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.630 equality, 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.710 uh, SDG eight, which is all about, you 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.110 know, um, one of the targets that you 00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:51.030 measure there is the, you know, the 00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:53.710 proportion of youth that is out of work, 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:54.710 out of 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.990 vocational training, out of education. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.390 All of these different SDGs. So So 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.830 that's one part of the impact. Human 00:28:02.840 --> 00:28:05.070 rights is another huge impact. When you 00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:07.230 When you ensure that girls are educated, 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.070 you're fighting child marriage. Like I 00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:13.270 said, it's the fastest way that the the 00:28:13.280 --> 00:28:15.430 most powerful way to to fight child 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.950 marriage. Um, which is a human right 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.190 violation and you can find in almost 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.470 every 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:27.030 uh, low-income country in the world. Um, 00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:30.630 then you have, of course, the what many 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:32.470 climate solutions need to do, which is 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:33.630 this kind of 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.590 um, to have both an adaptability 00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:41.430 focus and um, mitigation focus. And And 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.670 this is a very unique climate solution 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.550 in that way, that by bringing educating 00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:50.150 girls you know, increasing the education 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:53.550 level of girls in vulnerable communities 00:28:53.560 --> 00:28:55.990 you both lead to an emission reduction, 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.430 but you also raise the education levels 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.470 of communities, which is also a strong 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.710 indicator and factor in how well how 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.350 knowledgeable they are about the climate 00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:10.550 crisis and what to do um 00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:12.950 with their own in their own communities 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.830 to to be better prepared for and lower 00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:20.150 the risk of of of climate change you 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:21.350 know 00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:25.510 wreaking havoc in their communities. 00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:28.910 >> And and for listeners, SDG is uh the 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.070 Sustainable Development Goals set forth 00:29:31.080 --> 00:29:32.390 by the the UN. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.750 >> UN, yes, the UN, yeah. 00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:37.790 And they're they're now until 2030. 00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:40.070 Yeah, so it's a set of 17 goals 00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:40.510 >> Mhm. 00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:44.030 >> um that have to do with no poverty, um 00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:48.190 better health um education 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.430 um 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.950 life in water, life on land, so you 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.670 know, flora, fauna, the oceans, it's all 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.990 of the very, very many different things 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.070 that 00:29:59.080 --> 00:30:00.790 um 00:30:00.800 --> 00:30:02.350 really 00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:05.150 in 2026 we should not still be trying to 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.070 fix these things and it's the 00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:08.870 governments or the countries coming 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.350 together to work together to make sure 00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:15.710 that every single country has um reached 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.910 specific targets under each of these

00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.910 goals. Yeah, it's to we could do a whole 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:22.510 show about that, but there's you know, 00:30:22.520 --> 00:30:26.230 there's many different ways also to to 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.790 um measure these, which is what all of 00:30:28.800 --> 00:30:30.510 the world's, you know, civil society 00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:33.030 organizations, NGOs, governments, 00:30:33.040 --> 00:30:34.710 they're you know, there's one matrix 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.070 that you you really track to 00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:39.110 to make sure that you're 00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:41.310 fulfilling these goals or at least, you 00:30:41.320 --> 00:30:43.230 know, going in the direction of of 00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.510 accomplishing them. 00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:46.310 >> This conversation is so different. We 00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:49.070 usually are talking about, you know, the 00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:50.910 the carbon impact and stuff, and here 00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:52.430 we're really talking about the human 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:55.190 impact, right? And it's such a different 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.910 conversation 00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:59.390 um as it relates to, you know, a show 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:01.830 like ours related to sustainability and, 00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:03.190 you know, renewable energy, you know, 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.750 and it's really 00:31:04.760 --> 00:31:06.390 it's [clears throat] showing how you've, 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:08.430 you know, uh 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.350 you know, developed a solution that 00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:11.790 wraps in 00:31:11.800 --> 00:31:13.830 the uh you know, the climate and the 00:31:13.840 --> 00:31:16.430 climate issues, you know, as a mechanism 00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:20.030 to fund and fuel education, which is a 00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:23.270 bigger impact. And to me, that's just so 00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:24.910 fascinating. You know, you're a person 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:26.590 who's been on the ground, you know, 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:28.390 you've seen this 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:30.630 I haven't been, right? So, I don't have 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.950 that benefit, you know, 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:35.710 um of ever having been on the ground in 00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:37.710 a place like that where, you know, the 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:39.550 norm is at 14, you're looking for a 00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:41.150 husband. Not 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:42.270 looking, but, you know, a husband's 00:31:42.280 --> 00:31:44.150 coming looking for you versus going to 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:46.430 school. So, this is all just washing 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:48.590 over me cuz it's it's 00:31:48.600 --> 00:31:49.830 it's so 00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:51.950 new to me in so many ways. 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:52.670 >> Mhm. 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.030 >> I think also being on the ground, you 00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:57.910 know, when you go for the like 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.350 here in our wealthy, luxurious, 00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:03.030 easy lives, 00:32:03.040 --> 00:32:03.430 >> Right. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.470 >> we we, you know, we know maybe 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.950 we know that there's a lack of education 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.470 in the world. But I think many of us are 00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:13.350 kind of, you know, we have this 00:32:13.360 --> 00:32:15.670 misconception that, you know, it has to 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:17.430 do more with culture. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:17.790 >> Mhm. 00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:19.470 >> That, you know, there's going to be 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.510 cultures where they don't want girls to 00:32:21.520 --> 00:32:23.270 be educated. 00:32:23.280 --> 00:32:25.030 I'm not saying you cannot find these 00:32:25.040 --> 00:32:27.350 types of 00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:31.830 communities, uh but in my over a decade 00:32:31.840 --> 00:32:35.510 working in this, I have never met uh a 00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:39.070 parent, a father, or a mother, a girl, 00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:41.750 or, you know, a village chief that has 00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:43.230 says, 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.470 "Thank you, but no, thank you." 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.750 You know? 00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:49.510 And and and you'll see in these when you 00:32:49.520 --> 00:32:51.510 drive around, 00:32:51.520 --> 00:32:54.990 um, many of these low-income countries, 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:57.230 I mostly have been in in the African 00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.070 Eastern Southern Africa. You'll you'll 00:32:59.080 --> 00:33:01.110 even see these, you know, advertisements 00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:03.630 and billboards from, you know, the 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.870 president of the country or the prime 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.630 minister talking about, you know, rights 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:11.310 of the girl child. And, you know, big 00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:14.310 like education for girls. And and 00:33:14.320 --> 00:33:17.750 there's been a lot of work in the recent 00:33:17.760 --> 00:33:19.390 decades to kind of, 00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.310 um, make sure that everyone in the 00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:24.150 country understands that education is 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.550 for everyone. 00:33:25.560 --> 00:33:27.510 And maybe 00:33:27.520 --> 00:33:29.670 decades and decades ago, 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.270 like in our own countries, I mean, my 00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:35.230 grandmothers were not educated. My 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.790 great-grandmother, I mean, it's just 00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:38.630 it's very very different also in our 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:39.790 countries. 00:33:39.800 --> 00:33:40.910 But, 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.950 I just want to say like that this is not 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.830 the cultural problem. This is a money 00:33:45.840 --> 00:33:46.950 problem. 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.110 We are not financing this $97 billion 00:33:51.120

--> 00:33:54.710 annual gap for education. 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.790 If we would, 00:33:56.800 --> 00:33:58.430 we'd have it's not rocket science. 00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.910 Getting children into school is the 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:02.270 easiest problem to solve, and I wish 00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:05.030 we'd just do it, and then we could 00:34:05.040 --> 00:34:07.190 get on with solving some more complex 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.909 problems to the climate crisis. 00:34:09.919 --> 00:34:11.310 But, um, 00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:14.950 well, here I am trying to trying to get 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:16.669 climate funding into girls' education 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:17.830 because 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.590 we don't have enough. 00:34:20.600 --> 00:34:23.510 >> Well, and I mean, it is it's like sort 00:34:23.520 --> 00:34:25.629 of central, I mean, 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:27.590 what this is is central to the to the 00:34:27.600 --> 00:34:29.430 solution. I mean, we talk what bubbles 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:31.550 up on our show often is also like 00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:33.270 behavioral science, right? Like, how do 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:34.510 you get people to change their minds 00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:35.830 about things? How do we get people to 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.389 change their behavior? How do we change 00:34:37.399 --> 00:34:39.590 our own behaviors, you know, just on on 00:34:39.600 --> 00:34:41.430 fundamental levels in terms of how we're 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:42.869 relating to an understanding of the 00:34:42.879 --> 00:34:45.230 world around us and being more proactive 00:34:45.240 --> 00:34:47.149 around climate solutions, right? So, 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:48.310 this is 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:51.110 the same I mean the there's behaviors on 00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:52.990 many different levels. Who's going to 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.470 finance it? They're going to understand 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.310 why it's important to finance it. Um 00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:58.630 you know, 00:34:58.640 --> 00:35:00.750 one thing that also keeps coming to the 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:01.870 forefront of my mind, you know, I've 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.590 worked with some some young people in 00:35:04.600 --> 00:35:06.550 inner city. 00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:08.270 And one thing that happens is this 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.710 question of hope and optimism versus 00:35:11.720 --> 00:35:14.430 pessimism and and non-hope. So, what 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.430 happens is when kids see like, "Hey, 00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.510 there's a possibility." And when young 00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:21.630 girls say, "Hey, there's a possibility 00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:23.630 you can learn some things, your mind 00:35:23.640 --> 00:35:25.150 expands. 00:35:25.160 --> 00:35:28.470 What you think is possible becomes, you 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.950 know, infinitely uh profound and then 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:34.070 your action that follows that, how you 00:35:34.080 --> 00:35:35.990 self-self identify as who you are. I'm a 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.310 person that's educated and then what 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:39.830 allows you to do and so it has like 00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.630 these rippling impacts. I mean, you were 00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:44.710 speaking about like over even over 00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:48.110 generations where, you know, 00:35:48.120 --> 00:35:50.750 what you uh might see as possible in one 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:52.190 extent 00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:53.950 is can be very limited, right? Like, it 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:55.150 can be very I'm this is what I'm going 00:35:55.160 --> 00:35:56.430 to do. This is my lot in life. I'm going 00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:57.990 to go get married early. I'm going to do 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.830 this. This is my thing versus I'm going 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.950 to solve some of the problems of the 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.910 world. Our community's drying out. I'm 00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:04.030 going to figure out how to make the 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:06.190 soil, you know, more rich. And then it 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:08.430 just creates this whole other dynamic. 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.950 But I I wanted to ask you um 00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:13.950 Goodney, like what does it look like at 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.230 scale? Like, what you know, like let's 00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:18.710 say suppose Katline, your work 00:36:18.720 --> 00:36:21.390 really exceeds. What does this look like 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:22.990 at scale? 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:24.910 And then as a as a second part of that 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:26.430 question, 00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:28.990 I just I'm also thinking about like 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.110 return on investment. I know that's kind 00:36:31.120 --> 00:36:33.150 of a weird thing to think about, but 00:36:33.160 --> 00:36:34.710 Mike and I have talked, you know, 00:36:34.720 --> 00:36:37.190 offline a lot about like, you know, 00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:40.230 people need a like a hand up, not a 00:36:40.240 --> 00:36:42.790 handout, right? And I think sometimes 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:44.910 when money we need money for this, 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.230 there's not a good enough understanding 00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.510 of how this is actually not a handout. 00:36:48.520 --> 00:36:50.230 This is a hand up like this is actually 00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:52.590 creating foundation for other things to 00:36:52.600 --> 00:36:54.030 happen. So, 00:36:54.040 --> 00:36:55.150 I just wondered if you could speak a 00:36:55.160 --> 00:36:56.350 little bit about that. 00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:58.950 >> Well, I mean, I of course I'm coming 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:00.750 from the field of, you know, development 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:02.950 cooperation. I look at the return on 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.110 investment in terms of health, uh 00:37:06.120 --> 00:37:10.670 in terms of livelihoods, in terms of um

00:37:10.680 --> 00:37:12.750 you know, 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.790 welfare, better welfare, right? So, but 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.630 I I know that I mean, there's been 00:37:17.640 --> 00:37:19.150 extensive 00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:20.150 uh 00:37:20.160 --> 00:37:23.310 research and and peer-reviewed reports. 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:26.750 I think Malala Fund and the World Bank 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:30.070 did an incredible study and research on 00:37:30.080 --> 00:37:31.310 this. 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:32.750 I want to say 00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:35.750 maybe 2019 they published a book which I 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.190 I know a a report that I think the name 00:37:38.200 --> 00:37:43.710 was um the cost of not educating girls. 00:37:43.720 --> 00:37:46.230 Um I don't remember the numbers, but but 00:37:46.240 --> 00:37:48.950 this report was all about the missed 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.990 opportunities 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.310 for 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.950 um countries, for for communities when 00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:58.390 they do not educate their girls because 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.710 just having, you know, more girls in 00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:04.190 your let's say your village um educated 00:38:04.200 --> 00:38:07.030 means that they are they have much more 00:38:07.040 --> 00:38:09.590 opportunities laying in front of them. 00:38:09.600 --> 00:38:11.390 They can bring in more money to your 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.710 community. They can help 00:38:13.720 --> 00:38:16.110 increase the health and well-being of 00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:17.670 the community. 00:38:17.680 --> 00:38:20.590 Um but this is in a way education is so 00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:24.830 foundational for this specifically. 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.310 Um 00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.550 I mean I 00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:29.510 I encourage everyone to look at this 00:38:29.520 --> 00:38:31.830 report because it was quite um 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.670 interesting, but again, it's not 00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:36.870 this money return on investment is not 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:38.430 what I'm looking at. 00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:38.830 >> Mhm. 00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:41.550 >> Um but I guess it could be an angle for 00:38:41.560 --> 00:38:43.750 investors to invest in girls' education 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.510 because because of this maybe, but it's 00:38:46.520 --> 00:38:49.870 not what I focus on. But one thing when 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:50.910 you were talking about this 00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.030 opportunities, um 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:55.590 the girls 00:38:55.600 --> 00:38:56.870 girls 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.390 I mean children everywhere, they believe 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:01.190 that they can be something when they 00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:03.630 when they see it, right? When I was a 00:39:03.640 --> 00:39:04.910 child, 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.470 um Iceland had the first demographic 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:10.270 democratically elected female president 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:11.830 in the world. 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.590 And she was a president for 16 years, 00:39:15.600 --> 00:39:17.550 all of my childhood. 00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:20.910 And I remember still the moment I 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:24.070 realized, "Oh, a boy can also be 00:39:24.080 --> 00:39:25.877 president?" 00:39:25.887 --> 00:39:29.070 >> [laughter] 00:39:29.080 --> 00:39:31.990 >> And and we've we have now our second 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.790 female president. Um 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.030 and and so I'm just saying for for 00:39:37.040 --> 00:39:39.270 children, if you don't see it, it's much 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.470 more difficult to believe it. And 00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:44.390 whenever I whenever I visit a school and 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.750 speak with girls, um inevitably 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.270 they'll want to tell me what they want 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.270 to become when they're older. And and 00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:55.830 you know, they'll say teacher, doctor, 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:56.550 um 00:39:56.560 --> 00:39:59.470 police officer, you know, all of these 00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.470 if if they live in rural areas, they'll 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.070 they'll mention the vocations that they 00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:06.830 have actually seen. 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:07.230 >> Mhm. 00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:11.230 >> And one time I was traveling in southern 00:40:11.240 --> 00:40:12.590 Malawi. 00:40:12.600 --> 00:40:14.990 And 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.750 A girl said she wanted to be a 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:18.270 journalist, and this was the first time 00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:19.830 I had heard this, and I was like, "Oh, 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:21.830 how exciting." And and I was asking her 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.470 about it, like, really trying to 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:25.390 understand why, and she was just like, 00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:27.630 "I just wanted to be a journalist." Then 00:40:27.640 --> 00:40:29.470 we continued traveling, and and then 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.230 more girls said they wanted to be a 00:40:31.240 --> 00:40:33.390 journalist. And by the end of the day, 00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:36.150 every girl there, they had wanted to be 00:40:36.160 --> 00:40:37.870 a journalist, and I was what is 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.350 happening? And then I spoke with my 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:44.070 colleague at the Malawian cross, um who 00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:46.030 was working with this community, and she 00:40:46.040 --> 00:40:48.590 said that they had brought in 00:40:48.600 --> 00:40:51.990 a journalist, a female journalist from 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.110 the this community, from this area, as 00:40:55.120 --> 00:40:57.310 a, you know, for the girls to see what 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.590 they could become. So, I mean, 00:41:00.600 --> 00:41:03.230 obviously, it was impactful, and she 00:41:03.240 --> 00:41:06.430 probably had wonderful charisma

and and 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:09.750 and inspired these girls. Um and I'm 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:12.510 hoping with time it's going to become 00:41:12.520 --> 00:41:15.830 less difficult to find women who are 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:17.870 from these communities, who have gone on 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.030 to study something and become, you know, 00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.270 a doctor or teacher or something, 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.070 because this really, really helps the 00:41:27.080 --> 00:41:29.950 girls, and it helps children to realize, 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:31.990 "Oh, I can be something else than what I 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:33.910 see around me here." 00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.750 >> Wow. Is that right? I mean, that 00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:38.910 that shows that multi-generational 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.670 reorientation, right? A girl that got 00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:43.710 that education will have a completely 00:41:43.720 --> 00:41:45.790 different worldview, that she will in 00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.270 turn teach to her children, right? And 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:49.830 it starts to lift everything. I mean, my 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:52.470 grandmother was born in 1908, you know, 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.150 and I was close to her, and she told me 00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:56.670 in the 1930s, when she was sort of, you 00:41:56.680 --> 00:41:58.350 know, starting out, right? There were 00:41:58.360 --> 00:41:59.790 three options for women. You could be a 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:01.110 nurse, you could be a teacher, you could 00:42:01.120 --> 00:42:02.830 be a secretary. 00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:04.830 Cuz that was what was available to you, 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.150 you know? That was it. She lived in New 00:42:07.160 --> 00:42:09.470 York City. Those were the options. 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:10.750 People wanted to go to school, and that 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.310 would be, you know, and now look at what 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.590 those opportunities are. And that's 00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:17.630 multi-generational lifting, right? 00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:17.990 >> Mhm. 00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.150 >> It's so clear what you're saying. I 00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:22.070 mean, you're you're you're giving 00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:24.390 illustrations of that in terms of 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:26.230 you know, one girl gets lifted out, it 00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:28.590 changes the trajectory of all that are 00:42:28.600 --> 00:42:30.270 hurt downstream. 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:31.150 >> Mhm. 00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:32.430 >> Yeah, and I I think that's the 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:34.470 multi-generational impact you guys are 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.230 looking to develop. You know. 00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:38.870 >> Yeah. And it's been it's been I mean, 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.470 research shows this very clearly. The 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:44.110 more education a woman has, the more 00:42:44.120 --> 00:42:47.110 likely she is to ensure that her 00:42:47.120 --> 00:42:49.830 children are also educated. If a mother 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.110 is not educated, that's unfortunately a 00:42:53.120 --> 00:42:55.990 very very strong predictor that her 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.910 children will not be educated. So, even 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.590 though and and and what we do with our 00:43:01.600 --> 00:43:04.630 with our quantification model is I mean, 00:43:04.640 --> 00:43:06.150 we're quantifying this so 00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:08.870 conservatively, we leave out factors 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.110 like this that once these girls are 00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:15.070 educated, they are so much more likely 00:43:15.080 --> 00:43:16.550 to ensure that their children are 00:43:16.560 --> 00:43:19.390 educated, their daughters are educated, 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:23.470 which again will have an impact on on 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:24.830 the climate. 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:26.270 Um 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.230 so, it's 00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.550 I mean, I already said the the thing 00:43:30.560 --> 00:43:33.070 about, you know, just literate mothers 00:43:33.080 --> 00:43:35.710 who are who are able to read 00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:37.990 and understand, you know, the the 00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.270 medicine that may be the the doctor 00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.750 prescribed to them for their children, 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:46.070 right? I mean, there's a clear link to 00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:49.390 to ex you know, health and and survival 00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:50.750 rates. 00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:52.350 Just by educating women. 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:54.350 >> Your previous point about like the sort 00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.110 of, you know, human right, it's it's a 00:43:56.120 --> 00:43:58.470 right that um 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:00.670 not a privilege. You know, education is 00:44:00.680 --> 00:44:02.510 a is a right, not a privilege. And and 00:44:02.520 --> 00:44:04.750 also like, you know, just 00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.550 I to completely agree with your 00:44:07.560 --> 00:44:09.150 return on investment is not just a 00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:11.190 financial number, right? Like and that's 00:44:11.200 --> 00:44:12.830 a problem if it's looked at that way. 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.710 Like I mean, it's it's a question of 00:44:15.720 --> 00:44:17.630 it's it's a return on the investment for 00:44:17.640 --> 00:44:20.110 our society. Like what kind of societies 00:44:20.120 --> 00:44:22.430 do we have? Are do we have a you know, 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:24.630 thoughtful, you know, 00:44:24.640 --> 00:44:25.870 copacetic, 00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:26.190 >> [laughter] 00:44:26.200 --> 00:44:27.550 >> you know, societies where people are 00:44:27.560 --> 00:44:28.710 actually having the opportunity to 00:44:28.720 --> 00:44:32.310 really blossom as as people. And uh 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:33.710 I just have to tell this really quick 00:44:33.720 --> 00:44:35.110 story.

I'm going to edit this out, but I 00:44:35.120 --> 00:44:36.750 have to tell this quick story. So I used 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:38.630 to work in um 00:44:38.640 --> 00:44:40.830 South Los Angeles when I was in my 20s. 00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:42.710 I worked with kids in the inner city. 00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:45.470 And I had a little drum corps of of 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:46.990 junior high school girls and stuff from 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:49.830 the projects and and kids. 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.030 And so there was this there was this kid 00:44:52.040 --> 00:44:54.030 I worked with. He was little boy, but he 00:44:54.040 --> 00:44:55.310 was like 00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.510 10. 00:44:56.520 --> 00:44:57.830 And I always used to ask the kids like 00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:59.070 what what do you want to be? Like what 00:44:59.080 --> 00:45:00.270 do you dream? Like if you could be 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.150 anything you want, anything you wanted 00:45:02.160 --> 00:45:03.630 to be, what would you be? 00:45:03.640 --> 00:45:05.470 And this kid was like, 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:07.750 "I would be a butler 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.470 cuz then I would be able to live in this 00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:09.756 beautiful 00:45:09.766 --> 00:45:10.150 >> [laughter] 00:45:10.160 --> 00:45:11.150 >> house." 00:45:11.160 --> 00:45:13.990 And I just like it imprinted on my brain 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.750 and I was like, "A butler, bro? Like 00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:18.270 that's that's it." I was like, "We got 00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:20.870 some work to do." Like you know, but it 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.430 was the the the cap. It was the ceiling 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.470 on imagination of what you could aspire 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:29.190 to be was a butler. It was to be 00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:31.070 cleaning somebody else's stuff up, 00:45:31.080 --> 00:45:32.630 right? And it's like, "No, we're going 00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:35.350 to we got to bust I really just I see 00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:37.270 you as really busting, you know, the 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.790 work that you're doing is you're 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:40.470 contributing obviously to the work we 00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:42.030 need to do on climate, but you're 00:45:42.040 --> 00:45:43.870 busting these 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:45.350 ceilings 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.470 through educating girls and women that 00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:48.870 that exist 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.150 increasing this optimism and then all 00:45:51.160 --> 00:45:52.830 these other good things 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:54.350 really flow from it. It's very 00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.790 inspiring. 00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:58.070 >> Thank you. I just Google this World Bank 00:45:58.080 --> 00:45:59.150 report. 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:00.190 >> Oh, okay. 00:46:00.200 --> 00:46:01.350 >> So 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.990 I think the this fantastic report that 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.150 was done by the World Bank

and I think 00:46:07.160 --> 00:46:08.310 Malala 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.750 Malala fund, they they say that women 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:14.990 with a secondary education, which is 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.310 again the the just this 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:19.910 this five or six year 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.710 education period that we are focusing 00:46:21.720 --> 00:46:22.910 on, 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:24.630 women with a secondary education earn 00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:26.950 nearly twice as much as women with no 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:28.310 education. 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.070 Um for every dollar invested in girls' 00:46:31.080 --> 00:46:34.150 education globally, yields an average 00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:37.070 return of $2.80, 00:46:37.080 --> 00:46:41.350 $2.8. Um and also if all girls worldwide 00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:43.230 completed the full 12 years, so 00:46:43.240 --> 00:46:46.270 secondary education also, um global 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:47.790 lifetime earnings for women could 00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:50.630 increase by 15 trillion to 00:46:50.640 --> 00:46:53.350 uh 30 trillion dollars. 00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:56.390 So, it's a huge It's a huge I mean, for 00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:58.310 those who want to do this for the money, 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.870 go ahead. What are you waiting for? Huh? 00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:01.950 >> Yeah. Yeah. 00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.310 >> And and also this is this, you know, I 00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.830 mean, this is also what we take into 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.790 account when we're doing our modeling 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.430 um because associated with each step of 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.470 increased education also comes more 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:18.110 opportunity for earning, which also of 00:47:18.120 --> 00:47:20.510 course will translate into 00:47:20.520 --> 00:47:23.550 um increased um spending on, you know, 00:47:23.560 --> 00:47:26.390 commodities, more um 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.790 demand for things, and so increased 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.230 emissions, right? So, we incorporate 00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:34.590 these emissions into our model, but 00:47:34.600 --> 00:47:37.230 because of the the I can't stress how 00:47:37.240 --> 00:47:39.670 important it is to educate girls to 00:47:39.680 --> 00:47:42.390 prevent child marriage because that has 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.390 such a big impact even the the per 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:48.310 person more, you know, 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:50.550 consumption and emissions, it's 00:47:50.560 --> 00:47:53.310 outweighed vastly outweighed by the 00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.390 impact that this has on the, you know, 00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.310 the demographic transition on how 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.310 populations evolve over time. Um and I'm 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.030 hoping that we can get more people 00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:07.430 uh to join us. I mean, 122 million girls 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.830 I alone and Katla Carbon cannot, you 00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.350 know, close this gap. So, I'm hoping 00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:15.150 um a lot more people will copy us. 00:48:15.160 --> 00:48:17.230 And then, like I said, we can just 00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:19.790 finish this, close this gap, and tackle 00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.390 the next problem. 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:22.910 >> How do people get involved if they want 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:24.030 to get involved with the work you're 00:48:24.040 --> 00:48:26.390 doing? What What do you recommend? 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:29.550 >> Um I mean, I I I love speaking with 00:48:29.560 --> 00:48:31.670 anyone and everyone about this. So, they 00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:33.790 could email me at 00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.790 katlacarbon@katlacarbon.com. 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.030 Our website is katlacarbon.com. 00:48:40.040 --> 00:48:41.710 Um 00:48:41.720 --> 00:48:44.590 yeah, and I'm also on LinkedIn. 00:48:44.600 --> 00:48:45.910 Maybe you can share a 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.430 >> Yeah, I just wanted to thank you, you 00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:51.150 know, so much for coming on the show. Um 00:48:51.160 --> 00:48:52.630 I think it was a lot of education for 00:48:52.640 --> 00:48:55.270 us. It gave us a lot, you know, to spin 00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:57.150 around and we're like, "Man, this is a 00:48:57.160 --> 00:48:59.510 subject we have not talked about." And 00:48:59.520 --> 00:49:01.550 really refreshing conversation to to 00:49:01.560 --> 00:49:04.590 think about things in this way. So, 00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:05.790 >> Excellent. 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.833 >> so much. I had fun. 00:49:08.843 --> 00:49:15.383 >> [music] 00:49:15.393 --> 00:49:17.710 [music] 00:49:17.720 --> 00:49:22.589 >> Ooh. 00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:27.950 >> [music] 00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.160 >> Ooh.