บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 306: Steve Nance, Founder of Tungco

00:03:48.800 I think the waitress donated it, and then we got 80 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.680 the scrap bucket where you put your shells. 81 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.960 Then it was Cajun. It was in New Orleans. 82 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.560 And as a matter of fact, the day's specially day 83 00:03:56.599 --> 00:04:00.560 for me because I remember today is April. 84 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.919 Fifteenth, tax day, tax day, and. 85 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:06.560 In two thousand and five it was a Friday, and 86 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:10.360 I met my current wife Nan that day, coming by 87 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.319 our booth and playing our game. 88 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.279 And guess that many balls I had we had in 89 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:19.480 the jar in the wine glass. 90 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.600 Okay, so do you want to tell the real story 91 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:24.360 of how you met Nan or do you want to 92 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:27.040 romanticize it a little bit? Uh? 93 00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:31.040 Well, that's the outline of the real story. She come 94 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:32.720 by and I stopped her. 95 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:37.120 H You guys were sitting down and I saw her 96 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:40.439 coming by, and I said, hey, boys, I got this one, 97 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:45.279 and so I stopped her and told her about what 98 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.920 we were doing. And I think there was three hundred 99 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:53.040 and something thousand pellets that we had to waitcounted. So 100 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:54.040 what we were doing. 101 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.319 A wine glass in the one wine glass that was 102 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.439 smaller than this glass, right, it was six ounds glass. 103 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:03.279 Yes, and uh and uh. 104 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:05.160 Three hundred and something thousand yes. 105 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.439 And so the idea was for us to get their 106 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:13.600 contact information. They wrote their guests on their business card. 107 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:15.560 Everybody had business cards at the time, didn't have all 108 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.720 this phone stuff, and they put them in a little 109 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.839 bucket for us. And uh, that's how we got their 110 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:24.040 contact and it got a lot of attention. 111 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.680 We have away three dozen pro V golf balls. 112 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.800 Uh, we had gotten a big time baby. Oh yeah, 113 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:30.319 big time. 114 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.120 We're not giving away no top flight golf balls. We 115 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:37.600 had some giving away pro V one. We had some einsteins, 116 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:39.399 even counting the rows and doing. 117 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.240 The math out. Uh. 118 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.759 But anyway, so when miss Nan made her guss and 119

00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.480 threw it in the bucket, sorry, but she didn't have 120 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.600 a chance to win because I fished out of there 121 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:52.839 and I told you guys, I said, hey, I got 122 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:54.759 to go to the bathroom. I'll see you later. So 123 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:56.959 I hoofed it, gonna try to find her track her down. 124 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.920 Never did see her, but we did make contact. Right, 125 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:02.879 that was twenty six years ago. 126 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.959 Yeah, so one of my fond memories from that is. 127 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.000 I remember there was a couple other people in the 128 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.480 booth with us, and one of the persons who was 129 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.680 with us, they nudged me and he was like, hey, 130 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:19.480 what's your dad right here? And we'll say it was 131 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:24.519 NaN's business card, but he pinpointed you grabbing that card 132 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:27.199 out and he was like, that person might not win 133 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.319 the golf balls, but she's getting a call from Steve. 134 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:33.439 That's true. That's true. 135 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.120 And a couple of weeks later we had some contacts 136 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.279 we had got at the show. We're out in California 137 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.839 where she lived in Irvine at the time, and so 138 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.120 I hustled on out there and did a little business. 139 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.360 Rest is his history, yep. So how many years have 140 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.199 you been married now? 141 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:54.079 Twenty five? 142 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:56.000 Yep, yep. 143 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.000 We met in April and got married September at pretty 144 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.759 quick a little bit. 145 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:04.759 It's a very special day. Then it's going to be 146 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:05.560 celebrating it. 147 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:05.920 It is. 148 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.439 But the show, this show, somebody said earlier, is over 149 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:10.560 six thousand people here. 150 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:11.879 Okay, I hadn't heard the attendance. 151 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:17.399 They were kicking around sixty three or sixty eight, and 152 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:19.480 I recall, like I said, it's been a few years 153 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:22.279 since I've attended, but you know, three four thousand was 154 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:23.959 the number. 155 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:25.639 Yeah, so that's. 156 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:29.439 Great, and we've had good, just great response with the 157 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:32.439 with the cars and stuff there. 158 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.199 I think somebody mentioned they felt like the crowd was 159 00:07:35.240 -->

00:07:37.120 a little bit light, and I said, well, you also 160 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.439 have to remember we used to have a much smaller 161 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:42.879 footprint of the show haul like it was. 162 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.360 It was probably at least. 163 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.879 Half, if not a third of the size was the 164 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.360 footprint of what we're taking up at the convention center. 165 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:51.759 Right. 166 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:53.720 So I'm like, we you know, you're going to have 167 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.560 more people, but we have so much more open space now. 168 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:58.639 I mean I remember like how they would do the 169 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.639 food areas. I mean back whenever you go back a 170 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.040 decade ago, if you were going to on the opening 171 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.160 night when they do open bar, you'd have to wait 172 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.639 in line exactly just to get a drink. Well, they've 173 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.360 got so much square feet now that they get more coverage, 174 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:14.480 and I think it feels like it's less, but I 175 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:18.160 think the number is more just because it's better distributed 176 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.600 and you just don't feel like you're sardines in a can. 177 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.800 Yeah, I think there's more exhibits, but definitely, like you're 178 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:29.519 saying it's spreading. I've walked about twice now and definitely 179 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:30.680 bigger footprint. 180 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.039 Yeah. Well, let's talk business a little bit. 181 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:36.399 I know, one thing that we've got going on that's 182 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:40.919 exciting for you is the zinc project. Yes, you came 183 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.399 to me back in two thousand, probably two thousand and seven, 184 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:48.120 two thousand and eight, and you were thinking about it then, yep. 185 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.440 And I was a hard no. I wanted to go. 186 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.960 More of the sludge route, and that's when we started 187 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:59.039 TPP right in two thousand and nine. So that dream 188 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.279 of yours that you've ad for a few decades now 189 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.759 is finally coming to fruition. So let's talk about that 190 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:07.919 a little bit. How that, how you feel about that, 191 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:09.679 and okay, how it's going. 192 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.840 So yeah, I think that call back then was probably 193 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:14.399 the right move. I think you were right. 194 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:19.440 We definitely were right to concentrate on the sludges. You 195 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:24.399 and Ryan just quadrupled the amount of sludges

we were 196 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.799 getting and I don't know a year or two, maybe 197 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.600 a year, and the zinking at the time and the 198 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.399 way we were laid out, I'm just I just let 199 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.360 me just say this, so I can't really express enough. 200 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.440 How happy and proud I am with you and the 201 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:44.919 job you're doing with the company and your whole team. 202 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.320 I could not manage a team like you do. I'm 203 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.480 the entrepreneur, shoot from the hip kind of guy. 204 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:54.879 Uh just kind of like throw the kid in the 205 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:58.039 pool and say there go get it. You know. But 206 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.480 you're a good coach. But you guys are doing right. 207 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:06.120 And you've kind of structured the company with our I 208 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:11.519 guess customers, uh where I think if we'd done it 209 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.759 back at that time, we would have been viewed definitely 210 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:17.759 as a competitor. 211 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.000 And uh, competitor to our customers, people that. 212 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.320 We sell the scrap, which is our primary business. 213 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:25.759 It's still our core business. 214 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.879 And although we've I say, we've stretched out different legs 215 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.519 of the business like the crushing and the lineage and 216 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:36.720 stuff like that, but at that time, I think we 217 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:39.440 definitely would have been viewed as a competition and it 218 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:42.399 would have hurt our core business. And I think now 219 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.240 the relationships that you guys have built, you have built 220 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:49.240 uh you've done it in such a way and in 221 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:55.559 market timing. It's the supplies, so it's never been this type. 222 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.480 It's uh, it's. 223 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:00.720 It's a good time, good time. I think it's worked 224 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.360 out great now. I'm excited about it. 225 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:04.799 And it's pretty cool that your grandson's kind of the 226 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:06.000 project manager on it. 227 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:09.200 Oh, that's part of my being proud third generation. 228 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:15.480 You know, if you look at the stats, they sink 229 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.840 after second and third generation don't have much of a chance. 230 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:20.879 They thought it baby in the water. He just sinks. 231 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:23.399 Yeah. 232 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:27.000 The third generation tends to be more willing to spend 233 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.120 it than keep it. So yeah, I'm super proud of him, 234 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.159 and thank you. Thank you for the compliments as well. 235 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:37.799 Thank you for the opportunity and let me let me 236 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.720 be part of the business. 237 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:39.039 Family. 238 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:42.519 Businesses don't always work out well, so I'm glad that 239 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.159 it's been working for us. 240 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:45.320 We've all worked hard. 241 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.720 You've worked since she was twelve, I guess, and we 242 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.679 turned sixteen. Through the keys and you'll out and put 243 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:56.679 you in a flatbed truck, go get those road tools. 244 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.559 But we've worked hard, but we've been blessed. Yeah, been 245 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:02.919 very blessed. Yeah, definitely. 246 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.039 Well, let's talk about the market a little bit, all right. 247 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:13.320 So I remember hearing you talk about the oil and 248 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:19.600 gas crisis in the Silver boom of the late seventies, 249 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.960 early eighties. Yep, I'd hear you tell all these stories, 250 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:28.720 hear about meteoric price rises double digit dollars, and I'm like, 251 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.720 you know, I take over as president in twenty fourteen, 252 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.320 work my way up as CEO, and there's been a 253 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.559 fair bit of headwinds that have come in the last decade, 254 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:43.879 and I think I really had just kind of settled 255 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:48.559 into Okay, this is a very mature the very mature 256 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.320 industry now, the recycling business is mature, and maybe we 257 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.960 just won't you know, maybe Evan will get to see 258 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.000 that at some point, maybe something goes crazy, but I 259 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.279 don't think I'll get to see it. And then all 260 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:03.080 of a sudden, we've got this crazy parabolic rise where 261 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.799 you know, a couple of years ago APT was being quoted, 262 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.639 you know, in the low three hundreds, and now if 263 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.399 you look at what it's being quoted in Europe, you're 264 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.480 up over three thousand. So number one, what the heck 265 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.360 did you you know? Did your crystal ball see that coming? 266 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.960 And and what do you think about it? 267 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.879 No way, what I ever suspected that that would go 268 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:37.559 this high. I don't think any anybody did I have 269 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:38.360 seen it. 270 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:39.559

Rise and fall. 271 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.559 In fact, I told somebody recently that during the seventies 272 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.679 I started in high. 273 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.240 School, y'all know old story. 274 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.919 At price, I was selling scrap carbot for about two 275 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:56.440 to two fifty a pounds, and the seventies was inflationary period. 276 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:00.320 We ended up having stagflation. I didn't know where having 277 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.799 the stag part of it, because I ended up dropping 278 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.279 out of school and college and say, I think I 279 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:08.200 can make a living out of this. But by the 280 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.720 end of the seventies I was getting ten dollars a pound, 281 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:17.480 So if in relation to today's price, it wasn't as much, 282 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:22.440 but that's four to five times increase. Oil went from 283 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.000 about buck and a half to two dollars a barrel 284 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.159 to I think about ten. So again we had to 285 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.360 embargo in seventy three, and then in seventy eight to 286 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:37.919 seventy nine, another bump in it. But no, I never 287 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:44.120 would have predicted this skyrocket, and it won't last. It'll 288 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.320 come back, but I really don't see it coming back. 289 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.240 I think I heard somebody yesterday say they thought it 290 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.919 had been undervalued for a long time, and I tend 291 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:58.840 to agree with that. 292 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:04.279 Yeah, it's I heard that said this week as well, 293 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:09.159 And I'm just curious, you know, thinking through, Well, then 294 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.879 what is the real value? Because we've seen it go 295 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:16.960 up let's say six to seven X. We know that 296 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:21.240 the US government is working on creating We know they 297 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.320 have they've had defense reserves for a long time, but 298 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.440 we know through the vault now they're creating industrial reserves. 299 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.440 We also know that they're wanting to create a floor 300 00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:36.159 for the price. So that's been a challenge because in 301 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:43.440 your time in the industry, you've probably seen more minds 302 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:49.039 close tungsten minds close than ever even opened. Because you 303 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.720 saw a bunch open, they all closed, and then minds 304 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.519 that were opened before you started your career they're now 305 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.440 closed exactly. So how do you feel like the floor 306 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.320 if they can pull it off, if the US government 307 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.320 can pull that off and have a regulated floor, Because 308 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.120 just to clear it up, we know that eighty percent 309 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:13.080 of the world's concentrates are controlled by China. So if 310 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.759 they do that and that prevents China from dumping, do 311 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:19.879 you feel like we've got a real chance at standing 312 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.279 minds up in the West finally? 313 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.559 Or yes? 314 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.559 Because historically that's what they've done, I mean years and 315 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:31.000 years ago, Like I said, had my bishop mine in California, 316 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.639 you had some Utah, Nevada. Just more recently, there's a 317 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.600 two minds in Canada that have tried to get financing. 318 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.960 And I don't know if it's intentional. 319 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.200 That Chinese lowered the price or but if they dump 320 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.919 the price and it's not feasible because we've got so 321 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:58.159 many more regulations and cost associated with it, but it's. 322 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:58.799 Mainly the price. 323 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:00.879 And so I think if if they could pull it 324 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:06.319 off and get a stable price where they could make 325 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:11.880 money and be stable, Yeah, I think it's doable. 326 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.480 Do you feel like, I know you have some close 327 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:20.440 ties to China. Yeah, do you feel like the Chinese 328 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.680 government has changed their position to where if we go 329 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:28.759 back in the seventies and eighties, they were nowhere near 330 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.240 where they're at today. I actually heard a guy say 331 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.279 Chimath Polyptilla on the all in. He brought up an 332 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:39.079 interesting statement. He said, from if you go all the 333 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:44.759 way back to fifteen hundred, the world's superpower economically has 334 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:46.319 always been China. 335 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.359 Well, they call themself the center of the world. 336 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.960 From a revenue perspective. 337 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:55.799 So he actually had like what would have been the 338 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.000 calculated GDP of China from those days. 339 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:02.160 So he's like, you know, we talk. 340 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.920 About whether China would be the world superpower economically, and 341 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.640 he's like, really, what they're looking at doing is actually 342 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:14.880 returning to where they were. We

weren't even considered financially 343 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.160 in the ballpark of being the world superpower until post 344 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:23.839 World War Two, right, So what I'm wondering is, are 345 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:28.720 we seeing a shift to where they're like, okayoreally theoretically, 346 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.480 depending on how you calculate the math, we're dead nuts 347 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.279 China to us on GDP, or they're kind of just 348 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.640 ahead a little bit. So I almost feel like today 349 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.599 what we see them doing is being more strategic. So 350 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.960 some of this predatory dumping that they would do of 351 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:54.000 actual metal or the concentrate or an intermediate or the 352 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.119 other thing they would do, I think more what it 353 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.200 was with the minds is we'd say predatory pricing. Yep, 354 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.720 not necessarily the material coming back in, but just the 355 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.440 predatory price would basically collapse the market. 356 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.160 Do you feel like with. 357 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.519 She and how that administration is moving, I mean, can 358 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.400 you be the world's superpower economically and behave like they 359 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.400 did in the nineties, Do you see that changing or 360 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.079 do you feel like they're just going to do whatever 361 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:23.640 they want to do. 362 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:30.240 Well, I'll back up just a little bit. I've read 363 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.400 quite a bit, been to China a lot. In two 364 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.279 thousand and eight, I read a book calling China Rules 365 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:42.319 the World, and that was for Sudiumping got into power 366 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.000 I think it was twenty twelve. But when Dunkshaping took 367 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.400 over after mal died, and he kind of opened up 368 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:53.920 starting out with Sinjin and going what do they call it, 369 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.480 Chinese communism. 370 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:01.200 With Western characteristics or something like capitalist characteristic. Yes, and 371 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:02.920 and and then. 372 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.359 We had Sam Walton and all the big box stores. 373 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.119 We started to order everything. So another book of red 374 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:10.599 it was called Wealth and Power. So the wealth has 375 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.759 come first in the world. We have given them the wealth, 376 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:19.000 like you said, there's just neck and neck, uh, and 377 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.279 now they want the power. 378 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:20.640 You know. 379 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.599 They have not been a country to go out and 380 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:29.200 dominate with tanks and wars, but they have been doing 381 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:36.279 it South America, Africa, going out financially and becoming uh 382 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.160 dominant that way. 383 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:46.279 So uh, I believe that they that they're going to 384 00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:47.240 continue that course. 385 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.000 Do you do you feel like we've lost the race? Like, 386 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:54.519 is there still a chance for the US or is 387 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:58.039 it Is it already in the cards that they're going 388 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:00.160 to be number one economically and we're going to be 389 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.680 number two. 390 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.079 Well, we're in Vegas. 391 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.119 I hate to say this, and I don't want to 392 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:10.680 say something seed Jumpede might cut off my visa Chinese visa. 393 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:16.279 But if we continue both courses with our thirty nine 394 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:24.599 trillion in debt, and we continue that course just and 395 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:31.319 China continues their course, they will be the next superpower. 396 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:35.000 Yeah, yeah, I think I would have to agree, both 397 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:40.799 economically and militarily potentially. Now right now, what we're seeing, 398 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.640 we're seeing the raw strength and power of the United 399 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:46.640 States military. 400 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:48.480 They will take Taiwan. 401 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.880 And it is fanta and it is probably the most 402 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.200 powerful military in the world. But I think what we're 403 00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:00.319 seeing in the metals industry is the twenty first entry 404 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.519 version of Cold War. Uh, not having to fire a shot, 405 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.839 nobody's dying, and there's no real threat of nuclear war. 406 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.599 But the new Cold War is on these critical metals. 407 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.680 And the reason why they call them critical is because 408 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.359 it's critical to life of how we live today exactly. 409 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:25.599 And then there's also a criticality of whether we have 410 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.240 it or we don't have it, and they control a 411 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:31.039 lot of it, so I think they position themselves well. 412 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:33.880 And we've went to sleep on a lot of it. 413 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.559 We've let them have it cheaper. You know, you put 414 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.960 all your eggs in one basket and make steal that basket. 415 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.680 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's the cost. The going 416 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.880 to sleep is the cost of h We say this 417 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:53.720 on the Misfit Pod, a little bit of affluence. It's 418 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:57.559 like affluenza, that's you know, you you start to make 419 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.680 your decisions on well, how does that impact how I live, 420 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:05.119 based more on that than well how are my kids 421 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.440 or my grandkids going to live? And then we end 422 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.160 up with some of the ship that we're dealing with today. 423 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.079 And I agree with you. We kind of went to 424 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.559 sleep and in the comforts of life and gave the 425 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:20.359 wealth to other parts of the world. 426 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:21.680 Yeah. 427 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:27.640 Well, we'll end it with celebratory note congratulations on not 428 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:29.920 that it's tax Day, but that's the day that you 429 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.799 and Nan met, So it's good to have you on 430 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:36.319 the pod on that day. And thanks for coming, and 431 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.240 thanks for thanks for giving me an opportunity when I 432 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.640 was twelve or thirteen years old and being willing to 433 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.039 put up with my stubbornness and keep coaching me all 434 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:46.680 along the way. 435 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.359 Well, hey, we all have to learn, and I hope 436 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.480 we've done it. I always say, my mom used to 437 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.160 tell me this, I wish that, And I said, my Mama, 438 00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:58.720 you know like the way I've done that. 439 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:04.599 I said, Well, if you take something about you know, Cliff, 440 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.359 Proud of you, cliffs Now, cliffs Now, I couldn't be. 441 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:13.680 Hecker all right, Love you Pops, thanks for being on 442 00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:14.400 cliffs notes. 443 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:14.960 Thank you. 444 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.400 I