บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Godzilla Minus Zero: Hollywood Has Monster Competition

course, I mentioned Godzilla Minus One as well, the first one in this series, is it really takes Godzilla, I think, back to its roots. It really makes the connection clear between the trauma of the Second World War, the fact that the Japanese lost the war. There were also two nuclear bombs. They were a traumatized population after World War II. And Godzilla really rose from that nuclear trauma. The idea of this monster created for the first time in the 1950s was a direct link to that shame and humiliation of the war and nuclear trauma. Now, I think that the film really cleverly mixes that with great live-action special effects. It is a spectacle. Now, three quarters of the people who are going to see Godzilla Minus Zero might be just real monster fans, might be real Godzilla fans. They love the scale of the special effects. Kaleem Aftab (04:10) And also it's interesting it's had such success in America because if we remember back in the Second World War, all of these unfortunate Japanese civilians who were locked up just for being Japanese within the States as part of the war effort. And it's kind of fitting for me that this has arrived in the same week that we had spectacular election results, surprising in many ways in the US that seems to indicate that we might be moving in a new direction, in American politics. So it seems to be a good week for diversity in that way. Emma (04:49) Are you drawing a direct connection between Godzilla and Trump? Kaleem Aftab (04:54) I wasn’t gonna go so on the nose, but what I was gonna say is I think there's a connection between people wanting to embrace different cultures, different ways of thinking, also to acknowledge some of the historical perspectives that you've mentioned. And I think that's the same with Ramayana in UK. There's always been successful films — Hindi language or Indian language films, whichever part of the country they've come from in the UK. But this is the first one that's ended the week at number one. I think it took something like 2.8 million dollars and 2.2 million pounds in the first weekend. Extraordinary numbers. I think what we’re seeing is a real embrace in a year of so many huge American hits that also foreign-language films are benefiting from the twenty twenty six box office comeback. Emma (05:52) Well, we also know, of course, that subtitles are no longer the barrier that it was before. But I think that I really do think it is the scale of the monsters that Takashi Yamazaki does to such great effect in this Godzilla series that is getting the audiences rather than noble aims about diversity. Sorry, I'm going to disagree with you on that one. I think both these films are threaded through with the idea that in order to achieve the greater good in society, sometimes you have to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. Now, I'm not sure that that's a popular message, but it's a compelling one. Kaleem Aftab (06:30) In terms of Japanese cinema, we've seen a real boom in manga. Now we're seeing a boom in their fantasy stories. It's interesting as well that Ramayana is a fantasy epic. But— Emma (06:44) Mm. Kaleem Aftab (06:45) What is it that has made the world make better blockbusters that are matching Hollywood for their special effects now? Emma (06:53) I wonder if Godzilla Minus One made so much money worldwide that they were able to go to town with the budgets for Godzilla Minus Zero. But I know that with Ramayana, isn't this India's most expensive international film ever? And hasn't it purposely and ambitiously decided to try and get international audiences by having the film dubbed into various languages, including English? Kaleem Aftab (07:19) I was very surprised. Yesterday a friend of mine came out and he called me, “Kaleem, I just saw Ramayana. It was amazing. But it was in English.” And I was like, “What do you mean it was in English?” He was like, “For some reason they’ve dubbed it. I wanted to watch the subtitled version.” But I think maybe the fact there's a choice between watching the original language or being dubbed, which there is on a lot of streaming platforms as well, is actually helping people to sit in front of these screens. Emma (07:47) In France, for example, you can watch the version originale or you can watch the dubbed version as well. But I think that Ramayana — it’s also divided critics. And I believe the last time there was any kind of series about the Ramayana in India 40 years ago, apparently the streets were deserted on a Sunday morning when they used to put it on. Absolutely extraordinary. So it's such a big deal for India and it is a big deal to try and attempt to have this blockbuster that crosses over to become an international hit. Kaleem Aftab (08:24) Yeah, and I think that's the secret of this film is it features a story that touches across the nation the historical sense of who they are, and that has been tapped into and I feel that that is just part of the story, but they have been marketing this film for a solid year. And the trailers have worked and they've built it up. And everybody's watching it, but people are loving it. And I think, yes, it's divided some critics, but everyone else that I've known who've seen it is just loving it, loving the message. Emma (08:59) Not us. Kaleem Aftab (09:02) It's only because I've been so busy — when you hear later on in the episode what I've been up to. Ramayana's top of my list for this weekend. Emma (09:09) There's been mention that they wanted to be an entire cinematic universe, like funfairs, theme parks, like Harry Potter and other various hits. Kaleem Aftab (09:18) Yeah, and in the UK it's being released by Sony. I think in the US it's another big firm behind it. So it's definitely something that even the big distributors have seen the potential of and they're going for it. Anyway, let's move on, Emma. Cairo International Film Festival. There is the furore over censorship. Ferit Kılıç believes that the programmers announced his film

Dancing Angels and then for some reason they've decided to pull it. Emma (09:49) And then they reinstated it, but he refused to come. Kaleem Aftab (09:54) Yeah, I was gonna get to that and then— Emma (09:56) Okay, sorry. Kaleem Aftab (09:57) That's okay. But I think what this deals with is the very tricky nature of programming a film at an international film festival in the Middle East where there is a drive for showing the most modern, progressive and challenging films in the environment by programmers and sometimes these films — we didn't have to do this at the Red Sea when I was there, but I know in Cairo they do, they still have to show the films to the censors. And then someone's made the decision to pull it, hoping it will be fine. And Ferit Kılıç has said, no, that's not fine, because, quite rightly, he's probably very excited to go to Cairo International Film Festival to show his film in the Critics Week competition. Emma (10:44) Well, also, I think that the problem is something really strange, which is that the Turkish producers, they also co-produced the political thriller Eagles of the Republic, which you may remember from Cannes a year ago. That's by director Tarik Saleh. And that was seen as critical of the Egyptian regime — is the reason why the film was pulled and the director disinvited. It's not a good look. Kaleem Aftab (11:12) Yeah, and I think there’s probably a good chance that is a reason. Eagles of the Republic, Tarik Saleh is based in Sweden. He's often made films critical of the Egyptian regime. His films often appear in competition at Cannes, so they're very high profile, they're noticed, and he has no bones about what he thinks of the dictatorship in Egypt. And I can definitely see there was that influence and the talk of why have you programmed a film from these producers? Pressure being put on, someone's gone, let's just get rid of the film. And then, you know, these producers are wise to what's happening, and they know that by creating press about it, it will create interest. And the fact that the festival caved in, and then they've decided not to go anyway suggests that even they may acknowledge that it's too hot now to take to the festival. Emma (12:13) It just goes to show that film festivals in authoritarian, totalitarian countries can be sometimes slightly problematic. They do love the idea of having a film festival, but not the actual reality of artistic freedom, let's say. That is the quintessential issue here, isn't it? Even though you and I have also spoken about the thorny issue of programming either Israeli or Palestinian movies right now and how artistic directors of film festivals are tying themselves into knots over that. That is quite a different topic, it seems to me, because they have the artistic freedom to program whatever movies they want to. In Cairo, possibly not so much. Kaleem Aftab (13:01) It's true what you say and it's a definite difficulty. It's interesting that the film got reinstated. So

someone's obviously gone, well, it's a Turkish film that if you hadn't made any furore about, probably like thirty people might have gone to the cinema to watch it, plus everyone from the Turkish embassy. And so I can see that being an issue and they thought, “Why have we created something out of nothing?” Producers very wisely have created a story, and it shows just how difficult, as you mentioned, any festival has with certain films, but particularly in the Middle East or China or anywhere where the state is worried about what people are saying and dissidents. And that is a very thorny issue, and it's good that his film highlights it. Emma (13:58) Right, well, he's never going to come on our show, is he? You said only 30 people would turn up to see his movie. Kaleem Aftab (14:06) I mean these films are tough. These films are tough sell, I know that in the Middle East. Emma (14:11) Well, thank goodness Fatih Akin has no such qualms and he is going to turn up, although maybe he's going to change his mind after listening to this week's episode. We haven't got time to talk about you in Thessaloniki, Kaleem. Sorry, this segment is going to have to wait for another time. Kaleem Aftab (14:25) Okay, let’s do — let’s do hypnosis, because I know you want to hypnotize me. There’s this wonderful— Emma (14:30) Yeah. Kaleem Aftab (14:30) Story — I think it’s called Film Rewind. It’s a Pathé chain in Holland. They're hypnotizing people so that you can experience your favourite film for the first time. I just think, oh, I would just have them have them hypnotize me for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Just because it's so fitting for the movie. Emma (14:51) Well, you just love that double irony, don't you? Come on. There must be other films that you'd love to rewatch for the first time. Can I just say that as always, my touchstone is Point Break. What would— Kaleem Aftab (15:02) Ha ha. Emma (15:03) I give to rewatch Point Break as if for the first time, experiencing all that surf culture and the tortured brotherhood of Keanu Reeves and Patrick Swayze just for the first time? I would love that. I can see why they want to do it. Kaleem Aftab (15:20) Yeah, I would also, if I'm gonna be a bit more serious, one of my best ever experiences when I was young was going to see Terminator 2 for the first time and my jaw dropping when the cop turned into the floor. I would love to see some of those sequences again for the first time. My worry would be something that's dear to me because I've watched it so often when I was young, say a film like Francis Ford Coppola's The Outsiders. I forget about it a hundred times and all those wonderful experiences. And then I watch it with adult eyes and I don't like it as much. That would kill me. Emma (15:55) My goodness, yeah, that is true. Like films that we loved when we were kids, possibly we wouldn't love as much if we were re-watching for the first time. My God, maybe it's better never to tamper with Point Break ever. Does it actually work, do we think? Kaleem Aftab (16:10) I'm sure hypnosis works. There are lots of people that once smoked a cigarette and now smoke vapes. Emma (16:17) OK, you're on fire, literally. Kaleem Aftab (16:24) So, Emma, I have two minutes to tell you. I'm not letting you off. Thessaloniki went there. Great film festival. But it leads in because this is what films we watched this week. And that I— Emma (16:29) Okay. Okay. Kaleem Aftab (16:34) Watched my films in Thessaloniki. I watched two movies. One is one of my favorite films of all time. Zabriskie Point by Antonioni. And this was a real pleasure to watch it because it was part of Óliver Laxe’s — who made Sirât — programming of Welcome— Emma (16:54) Mmm. Kaleem Aftab (16:55) —to the Desert. This was a key film and packed audience. I was very excited. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it in the cinema before. But for me, I find this film really funny. And maybe that's why I put it in my top 10 in the Sight and Sound list in 2022. Because it's a movie that doesn't have much story, much plot, but it does have revolutionaries at the beginning saying white guys, white women, white people cannot be real revolutionaries 'cause they don't suffer. And the rest of the movie is kind of a pastiche of flower power, people stealing planes pointlessly, and ends with one of the greatest sequences in history. I had a brilliant time, but afterwards a guy cornered me and he said, he said, “Do you think life is funny?” And I was like, “Well, it is a bit funny.” He’s like, “I agree with you, life is funny, but you were laughing the whole way through this movie. And Antonioni is very serious.” And I was like, “I disagree with you.” And then he said, “You must know a lot about cinema.” And that made me laugh. Emma (18:04) Because how wrong he was! Kaleem Aftab (18:06) Because — it just — I wanted to — I wish I had a card right then. And then I could have just — I could have just given him my card. Emma (18:18) And just said, [Unclear phrase about cinema.] That's what… Kaleem Aftab (18:23) Exactly. Emma (18:24) That was what you could have said. I know everything about it. All right, briefly, because we mentioned Fjord is out in the UK. So that's my pick of the week for what I've watched. A little bit of a recap of this Palme d'Or winning film, which is about a couple. She's Norwegian, played by Renate Reinsve. He’s Romanian played by Sebastian Stan, they’re evangelical Christians. They moved to Norway with their five children. The five children are removed from their custody because of allegations of abuse, and it’s really a film that's totally divided critics in the sense that Cristian Mungiu, the director, seems to be asking us whose side are we on? He wants us to switch sides almost throughout the film, and ask the question whether so-called liberal democracies can actually be incredibly illiberal towards some minorities, depending upon what they believe, and also indeed, unconsciously perhaps, to migrants. I think we both really like this film, Kaleem, didn't we? But I'm just so curious as to you being in Norway, this so-called liberal society, what do you make of it? Kaleem Aftab (19:38) I love Fjord. Maybe it's my film of the year. I wrote a Substack about it, about all the angles, and why I think it's so well made, deserving of the Palme d'Or. I think it's so challenging to people's central beliefs, is that it's why some critics have turned their noses up at it, which I love. I think the best films divide people. Being in Norway in this society that people do feel — I was talking about this with a Norwegian guy yesterday — that people in Norway kind of do feel superior. There's a lot of reasons to feel superior if we're in Norway. Whether it's… Emma (20:17) They're a lot richer than us. Kaleem Aftab (20:18) Whether it's the very clever way the state has used the oil money, whether it's the disgusting way they fish for salmon, that's not something that's praiseworthy. But there's also a lot of good in society. There’s a lot of complications that come with that. And I think Cristian Mungiu really points that out really well. One last film I want to mention is Until the Day Ends, which is a new Serbian film. And it's very relevant because of the — the elections in Serbia, where the student list, which started as a protest, have overthrown what many considered a dictatorship government, but clearly not. There was elections that knocked them off. And this film is set against the backdrop of the start of the student protest, and it starts off super interesting the way it brings that about. Doesn't quite end the way I would want it, but there's a lot of Zabriskie Point in it, so I can't really criticize it too much. And it's definitely one that has been playing a lot of film festivals. And if you're interested in East European lives and what's happening in Serbia, which I think a lot of people should be, this is a must-watch film. By Jelena Maksimović. She’s very well known as one of the best editors in Serbia. Emma (21:41) That’s superb. Thank you for that recommendation. I really appreciate it. Right. Well, I'm off to see an unnamed movie, which I hope is not so terrifically bad that I might end up getting hypnotized to forget all about it and then having to watch it all over again for the first time. Let's see. Kaleem Aftab (21:56) Yeah, and lucky for you, I'm gonna be on duty of hypnotising myself to put out this episode. And next week we’ll have watched Ramayana and [unclear film title] and we can talk more about me. Emma (22:12) Well, plus ça change, but Fatih Akin is supposed to be coming on. So let's look out for that. Kaleem Aftab (22:18) Yeah. Perfect. Speak to you later. Thank you, Emma. Enjoy the movie. Emma (22:20) Bye.