บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Men, Vulnerability & Sovereignty w/ Kevin McNee | EP20

I've seen that with every single person that's gone through the process and you're you're saying you're singing the song now. You know exactly what we're talking about now, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, one of the one of the guys ⁓ in the brainstorming ⁓ portion of before we even got into like the first draft phase, he wrote eleven thousand words. And the these chapters are are 2,500 words. So it's a small it's a small fragment of of what you know our our life journey. So, you know, trying to fit whatever it is that you want to share in there in in that small piece. But Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. ⁓ she is. Kevin McNee: What I re recognized in that, and and a lot of the guys had like big ⁓ brain dumps into these ⁓ into this brainstorming session and even the first drafts too, and they're like, I don't know where I'm gonna cut down. Like, I don't know where I can cut down and condense. But you know, the more that we did that and worked through it together, is it's this unlayering process. It's like, ⁓ all of those words that I had actually just helped me get to the root. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Mm. Kevin McNee: Of the story that needs to be told. And and when when we kind of like took all of that layer off, those layers off and got down to it, the stories that that came exposed and like the hearts that ⁓ that these guys have, I'm telling you, man, I got the chills thinking about it. And you know, the cover, the cover speaks to that, right? When when I was talking to the design team about it, I'm like, I see. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Kevin McNee: That when what a sovereign man is, is to take off this suit of armor that he's been wearing that's been weighing him down for his whole life and allowing himself to be fully seen for the first time and just the sense of freedom and peace and and not only that he feels, but that everyone else around him gets to experience him in his full essence. I'm like, that's that's what I see. And then they came out with this cover, and I was just like. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's such embodied strength too. Like what everything you just said, like what was coming for me too is like that's the real strength. Right? Like there's so much strength in that, in being and as especially as a man, allowing yourself to take off all the armor and the masks or however you want to kind of label it. And just that's where the real strength lies because you're vul more vulnerable than. Kevin McNee: Holy shit. That's it. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: arguably any other time, but in that it shows like the the the sh like this true strength, I suppose, is, you know. Kevin McNee: Yeah. You know, and I think about that is too, is like when we can stand in our own vulnerability and stand out there with like our skin off and being so raw and being like, This is me and I'm staying. No matter how much it hurts and it stings, and you know, there's I feel so raw and other people can potentially hurt me, but I'm staying anyways. It's like Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: That's it. Like that's the power and and being able to stay in that helps build, you know, build those new muscles and and new connections and and new way of being. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah, I just want to actually just shout out you and the authors for stepping into this as men doing because you know what? And like the Sovereign Acres, ⁓ you know, there's been several pub there's been some several publications that they've run. And there has that's been kind of where the waiting has been ⁓ not equally distributed. Is we've seen a lot of women come through and share, but to see a book. dedicated to men, written by men. ⁓ it just speaks to like the fact that you probably had to work a little bit harder to get maybe even get them to to sign up for the process to begin with, but like how important that is because those are the voices that have been you could say arguably missing a bit, right? Yeah. Kevin McNee: Right. Yeah. You know, it's ⁓ it's interesting you bring that up too because when I first started talking to to guys about that there's a there's a potential for this book and I've been invited to be the lead author and and you know there's we can have our stories be told and and guys were like, Yeah, I'm I'm in. I totally want to do that. I'm like absolutely like I've been wanting to tell my story for a long time and I'm like, here's the link. Here's the link. Sign up, like apply here, like go in and then all of a sudden it's just like crickets. Right? Or it's like, ⁓ you know, it's not really good time or it's you know, it's this or, you know, maybe that I you know, the investment's a little bit too much, or I kinda wanna write my own book is like, okay. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: And and then what? Right? So it was it was really interesting to see how many people faded away from that first original burst of like, ⁓ man, I can't wait to do something like this, or I'd love to be a part of it. And then, you know, what I recognized in that too, and we saw it even with the guys that fine that did pull the trigger and and you know, write in the book is there's this not enoughness that shows up. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Kevin McNee: Right, it's like, is my story gonna be good enough? Am I gonna be good enough? Or what happens when I tell it to the world? What's everyone else gonna think? And I mean, I'm telling you, this book comes out in like what four more days? And all of that is still so true right now. So I'm I'm like, ⁓ man, like, what's my family gonna think? What are people gonna think? Like, like all of this. And, you know, that is part of the process. And, you know, the Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It is. Kevin McNee: I got to I got to write the foreword and the back cover. And you know, one of the pieces that that kept coming up as I was writing, I'm

like, the sovereign man isn't perfect. Sovereignty isn't perfect, but we all can be sovereign in our own way. And it starts by by leading with that vulnerability and allowing our hell hearts to be seen and potentially hurt and bruised, but doing it anyways. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And and even when you like, I think there's this notion that like you have to have arrived somewhere to have the story or to be able to share part of it. Nah. That's that's just f fallacy. It's fake. It's not real because there is no arrival. So it's like there's always something you can pull from what you've walked in, experienced that's going to either help you in your healing process or help someone else. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And this is one of the things too is like, since I first started my own, like my own healing journey and started sharing a bit about my story and got into like men's coaching and mentorship. The one of the most important pieces was we don't share enough what's working for us or what we've been through or like what's supported us along the way. And when I first started my men's group on Facebook, like six years ago, I was like, let's just have this space to be like, Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Share a book that you read. Share a YouTube video that you watched or a podcast you listened to or a quote that you really like. Right? Just something is like, let's start opening ourselves up because why would we hold all of this stuff that's really helped us along the way? When we could just literally say, hey, this is what I did, and that might change someone else's life. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Yeah. This is I think about this far too often because I I on my own journey, I didn't always draw I haven't dropped all the things, but there's been so many things, right? And they can be such fleeting moments in our day, in our week, in the implementation, and we're just like kind of moving through and trying different things or whatever. But like that's where the real value is. So if you're able to connect that to like Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: turning that into something that could be a value for someone. Like you said, just dropping a link, dropping the video, dropping a thing you tried, like that's where the the real gold is, honestly. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Because, you know, everyone's on their own journey. And I'll I'll say too, like when I first was was going through this process, I actually in twenty thirteen, I went and saw a lady that did Reiki and energy healing and and ⁓ psychic mediumship. And she told she said to me, She's like, Kevin, you're gonna write a book someday. She's like she told me a couple of a whole bunch of things that was like mind blowing, but was like Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. ⁓ damn. Kevin McNee: You're gonna stand and you're gonna stand in front of people and you're gonna be serving, you're gonna be helping, you're gonna be helping others and I and men. but you're gonna write a book someday. She's like, I can actually see you sitting down by candlelight, just like back in the old days, like, you know, Mark Twain style writing with feather pen and a candle. I can see you writing this book. And I'm like, about what? She's like, about your story. And people are gonna wanna read it. And I'm like, I don't get it, but. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Okay. Right. And that was ⁓ that was in twenty thirteen and here we are thirteen years ago and ⁓ it's happening. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Well Yeah. So tell me who were you in twenty thirteen? Where were you at in twenty thirteen? Kevin McNee: ⁓ man, it was ⁓ I was searching. I was searching. I was empty and I had you know, I had I had a lot to be grateful for, right? I had just started a new job. ⁓ making I was working in oil and gas at the time and I just moved to I had just moved to northern BC, mile three hundred on the Alaska Highway, Fort Nelson, and ⁓ took over a role. I was working in oil and gas and and ⁓ I just lost my my ex wife and I had just lost a son. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Okay. Kevin McNee: He was born born stillborn at five and a half months. And and ⁓ yeah, I was searching. I'm like, what is what is this all about? Like here I am, I'm making a ton of money. I've got a house, I've got a family, I've got got all of this stuff, but I'm like, I don't believe in anything. I didn't believe in, you know, God or church or Jesus or the Bible or the universe or or anything. I just believe that, you know, once we were once we were dead, we're gone. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: ⁓ wow. Right. Mm. Wow. Kevin McNee: And ⁓ I was like, if that's the meaning of life, then what's the point? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: So you there was would it be fair to say there was like a hopelessness that was present? Kevin McNee: Yeah, I was ⁓ I'm not sure if I'm on delay here or not, but ⁓ Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Think it's slightly delayed. Kevin McNee: Okay. ⁓ yeah, I was I was looking for some answers and I had some friends that that went and saw this the they called her an energy healer and and ⁓ Reiki practitioner and and my my ex wife had actually gone to her and I was like, Well what'd she say? And who came through and and what did you know, what did she tell you to do and like what like all what did it feel like? And ⁓ she's like, Why don't you just go? And I'm like, Okay. So I went. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: And I'm telling you, within the first five minutes my life was changed. Yeah. She didn't know me. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Really? Wait No, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. Kevin McNee: She ⁓ she didn't know me or any of any of my story. And one of the things she said to me, she kind of like she shook her rattles and and you know, cleared the energy of the space and you know, burned some incense and stuff. And she just said, Kevin, I just gotta say that

there's a little boy here. There's an energy of a little boy here, and he says he's your son and he loves you. And I was just like, I mean, I can feel it right now, but like. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: My God. Kevin McNee: my I just started bawling my eyes out and I'm like from that moment on, I'm like, I know that there's something, there's gotta be something more than just this day to day life that I'm living where it's just going through the motions. So I'm gonna do whatever I can to be a better person. You know? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. So just to kind of state the obvious, but the little boy was this the stillborn son that you and your wife had. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that cracked something open for you in the energetics that of behind the scenes, essentially, that there's something that you can tap into that's beyond this physical realm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. And you know, there was so much that came from that. It was that same reading that she told me that she saw me like helping people and and you know, ⁓ speaking on stages and and something that I've always wanted to do. I always felt like I always felt as a kid that I was meant for something more, like something bigger. Like I felt like I was meant for to be big. And here I was living what felt like such a small life. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Kevin McNee: You know, I was like I was I was I had had a lot of success in my life on an outward level. You know, I I was a golf pro for a for seven years and and had some success in that and then transitioned into oil and gas to start making more money and really climbed the ladder quite a bit. But I was like, it still doesn't feel like I'm being who I'm meant to be. I'm still lim limited in my marriage and limited in my in my job and I'm afraid to speak up for myself and I'm like, is this ever gonna happen? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: ⁓ really? Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: And that started to open things up for me, you know. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: So that was a definitive turning point. And then so what are you able to go back and remember like some of the things that shifted after that reading, like distinctly? Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. One of the things that she told me is she's like, she said, Kevin, the signs are just about smacking you in the face and you gotta start noticing them. So if you take anything from this, just start noticing the signs. I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and do that. Right. So I ⁓ I started noticing things and and I, you know, different smells and different sounds and just like connecting and being more present. And it would just Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Kevin McNee: It really opened me up to a, you know, a new way of being. Like I started, you know, I started to like pick up little pieces of garbage or putting an extra shopping cart away or, you know, like helping someone with their groceries. Like I was like, I wanted to be a better person. And it showed up in in in a number of ways

where I I wasn't in integrity in a lot of ways with that. But, you know, one of the things that showed up right away is I left that session. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Kevin McNee: And I was playing in the oilmen's golf tournament in Fort St. John, BC. And I said, if I'm gonna start noticing the signs, I'm gonna start noticing right away. So I was playing with ⁓ with a bunch of my friends and and you know, oil and gas, it's a it's a bunch of drinks and having fun and things like that. And I hit my ball into the into the left side of the the eighth hole. And it was longer grass, and right beside my ball, buried Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Sure. Kevin McNee: Into the grass, there was this little nest. It looked like a little nest, and there were three Robin's eggs in there. And I'm like, ⁓ man, I said, I've never seen anything like that before. So I called my buddy over and I said, Hey, check that out. Look at there's some robin's eggs in there. He's ⁓ man, that's so cool. Like I haven't seen like anything like that. And I said, Well, if you I said, if ⁓ if I'm supposed to notice the signs, I guess that means I'm gonna make a birdie. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: No way. Yeah. Mm. Okay. Kevin McNee: And if if you for those that are golfers, a birdie is is ⁓ is one under the par for the hole. But ⁓ well I hit I ⁓ hit my shot up and it went up into the air and went bang this far from the hole. And and my buddy Jeff is like, no shit, like that's no way. And I'm like, I have a feeling that you're gonna get one too. And he's like, Yeah, I don't think so, man. I'm not that good or whatever. So he he steps up, hits his shot. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. No way. Kevin McNee: And his ball goes up, bang, lands right beside my. Yeah, it was pretty cool. And they was just like, he was shocked and I was shocked, but just the energy of it felt so cool. So, you know, it was just it was that kind of it was that experience that started to to help me open up and and just start start believing more and and ⁓ you know it it it really opened things up for me in a big way and I I continued to see her for for a number of years, ⁓ a few times ⁓ a few times a year and and just really start to navigate that on my own. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Okay. Kevin McNee: and having more faith in in something and and that's really what it was. I didn't I was had this resistance to, you know, the Bible or to religion and but it but it really opened me up to ⁓ to something more. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. So what has your journey well where are you at with faith in God now? How would you describe it today for yourself? Kevin McNee: Well, you know what, I really appreciate that you asked that because ⁓ for a long time I still rejected like the my faith journey with you know, with God and religion and the Bible. And over the last few months I've really felt called to learn more and recognize if I'm gonna have a resistance, then I'm actually not able to welcome in the fullest power of my own faith and belief and and God, right? So, ⁓ Darrel-Lynne Thieson: I think. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: Yeah, I started reading the Bible. I went and bought I went to a Christian bookstore and and bought my own Bible 'cause I wanted to learn more about it and and ⁓ you know, read the stories and and interpret it in my own way. And then and then started going to church and I've been going to church that I went to church for the very first time in my life, like like eight weeks ago. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. ⁓ wow. Okay. ⁓ wow. Okay. Kevin McNee: Yeah. And ⁓ yeah, it was great. There's a there's a church called the Trinity in in Kelowna that's it's very new and it's like going to it's like going to a workshop every Sunday. You know, they're talking to things that are all very relevant and you know, it's it's interesting even as I I went there the they just started a workshop like ⁓ like a series ⁓ like a weekly series. So when ⁓ when I went there last week, ⁓ for those of Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: people who don't know, like I one of part of my brand was called the ripple effect. Right. And ⁓ that's what my website was for a time. And and I do believe that and the concept of that is I I believe when we start working on ourselves that we create a ripple, not only the does it affect ourselves, but it it supports everyone else around us and and impacts everyone in a powerful way. Well I walked into I walked into the church and the Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: The theme of their series is called the Ripple Effect. And I'm like, Okay, I'm listening, right? But yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: ⁓ damn. I love that. So you started eight weeks ago and then they literally started this workshop within the last eight weeks with the called the Ripple Effect. Or like not a workshop, but like a see a teaching series. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah, totally. That's a yeah, like a sermon series or, you know, basically ⁓ taking pieces pieces and out of the scripts and and ⁓ and sharing them and you know, ⁓ all around the ripple effect. And I'm like, you just can't make that stuff up. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, so I'm curious when I ask about faith in God and you, you know, for you it's the Bible and some ⁓ like Christianity is essentially what we're talking about, right? Was there a reason that you gravitated to that or was ⁓ have you explored other religions at all prior to that? Kevin McNee: Yeah, so like I actually, you know, and and even with Christianity too, ⁓ mine is right now is is reading the Bible and and learning the the stories and and you know what Jesus meant to the world and and it's it even showed up for me just this last little while is like what if I just showed up more like Jesus with that servant's heart and and love and kindness and and just like being of service. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm, mm. Kevin McNee: But also standing up for myself and standing up for what's right and and really just just being that

sovereign being, even if it does cause chaos in other people. Right? ⁓ so that really landed for me. And, you know, but I've I would say that for the majority of my my path, I would I gravitated towards more of like Buddhist teachings, you know, the Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Kevin McNee: you know, multiple lives and past lives and and reincarnation and and I still I still follow that and and I'm not saying say follow it, but believe in it. You know, I I took ⁓ I took training on how to work within the Akashic Records and and open the Akashic Records and and do intuitive readings and it's something that ⁓ that I really it made a big difference in my life and made some big shifts. So, you know, to be able to to bring that that spirituality into my life too and Darrel-Lynne Thieson: ⁓ cool. Mm. Kevin McNee: And now that it's it's shifting, I feel like it's actually getting even deeper. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm, mm. Yeah, I think there's something to being able to expand the the field of vision and understanding and like see what all sorts of I don't know and I feel like we'll even the term religion is kind of limitat limiting like ⁓ modalities, beliefs, like these these cultural stories that we have over, you know, millennia and like Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: seeing the through lines and like and also deriving your own inner belief of what feels the most resonant and true too, which doesn't necessarily mean that will be the case for someone else either, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. And that's where I say too is like, you know, I I actually like re I'm not I'll say rejected religion and and church for a long time and the Bible. Like even when I was doing ⁓ the program with my teacher on how to like work within the Akashic Records and tune into my own intuition, when I would hear people talk about biblical references, I was just like, ⁓ man, I can feel this like resistance in my body. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Mm. Kevin McNee: And I even shared that within the group saying, like, like I recognize this and I and I'm like, it's a block. And that's, you know, for for what I've what I've learned through this is like anytime there's resistance or there's fear, for me, it's a block. And that's also the direction that I should probably look. Because if it's a Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, right. Right. That's where you gotta get the most curious and see what's like behind there for you. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Yeah, because if that's blocking me here, what else is blocking me elsewhere? Right. So is my faith journey mean that I'm going to like go and get baptized into in and become a Christian? I don't know. But right now, I really enjoy reading the Bible and I don't feel like a need to attach to any sort of ⁓ religion or belief because I'm walking this path myself and and that's enough for me. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Totally. No, that doesn't I resonate with that. And I actually get a lot of joy reading

the Bible. ⁓ I'm I don't claim to be Christian. I've never been baptized, but there's there's a there's obviously a reason that this book has the has captured, let's say, or like I want to say captured the imaginations. I I feel like that's kind of limiting, but like we're talking about the Bible. Kevin McNee: Right. But no. Mm-hmm. Right. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Like there's a reason that it's endured the way that it has. So I mean, and I've I've found that and felt that for myself as I read its pages. And I mean, it's just like any good book. You'll come back to it and find multiple layers of meaning every time you return to it too, which makes it fun and interesting. And I mean, yeah. So I yeah, I hear that. It's it's I'm always here interested to hear the faith in God. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: journeys of people because there's so many it really does kind of like reveal the ⁓ the texture of where a person's at in their lives and like what they're exploring and like what those beliefs like are present for them or just I mean just where their mind might go when there's lots of quiet, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. You know, it's ⁓ it's interesting you say that too. And and I had a I've been having some deeper conversations around this too, because you know faith, what I've recognized now is what so many people that are struggling are missing. Especially for men. And it's like, you know, I've I've come to this this this term, and it's not my term, but it's like there's a God sized hole. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: And many people and many men right now, and there's no faith that there is something greater than than just what's right in front of them. You know, the going through the motions, going to work, go making money. It's like gotta provide for the kids and and be there and all the activities and the busyness and and all of that of life. It's really hard to see outside of that, especially when you don't have a faith or belief in something. And I'm not saying it has to be God, it has to be the Buddha or whatever, but something greater. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: that you're here to serve something more than yourself. A belief in the magic. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Belief in the magic that's orchestrating all everything we get to experience. Yeah. It's not rand ⁓ to me at least, it's not random. This isn't coincidence. There's so many wonderful threads connecting it all. And if you want to call that God, then call it God, right? But it's just the energetics of this incredible theater that we're part of. Kevin McNee: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, call it Bob, right? Yeah. Yeah, whatever. It's could be, yeah, Mary too, right? But it's like it's like that's that's what I see right now is a lot of people have lost that or they've never had the connection to it. And you know, a conversation that I had with a with a a good friend of mine who's navigating his his faith journey from more of like the new age spiritual lens. And that's where that's where I went too as well. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Call it Bob or Mary, I don't know. Does it have to be? Yeah. Okay. Kevin McNee: And we've both had this conversation about how we're really grateful that we came through that from like nothing to like opening up to something more, like the universe, the creator, the divine light, the you know, navigating like ⁓ plant medicine and breath work and ceremony and ritual and and the full moon and new moon and all of that, which I also still love by the way. But navigating that. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Realm and then coming back and going like, ⁓ God was there the whole time. And there's a the, you know, God or Bob, what the the creator is the one that created it all, and there's room for all of it. So even the fact that there's like fighting over the interpretations of something that we will actually never know a hundred percent for sure, that's at least not in this realm. Yeah. That's the Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. At least not in this realm. Maybe when yeah. Kevin McNee: That's the craziest part. Like, you know, all of these different religions and beliefs fighting each other over their interpretation of the same book. I'm like, it really doesn't make sense when there's room for all of it and and God or or Bob or the universe or whatever you want to call it is the one that created it all. So it's actually meant to be here. You know? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, Hundy. It's it's all the same sub it's all the same fabric. It's just different colors and different places. Ca dunno, like there's a million analogies you could throw on it, but it's all it's all the same stuff. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, just to kind of like to to wrap that part up, ⁓ I'm really I'm really glad that I went through the journey that I went to as opposed to being like being raised through the church and forced forced through it and then like and then and then deprogramming that. Whereas like now I've got to navigate this journey on my own and take and pick and choose what what's aligned and what isn't, and finding this place where I'm like, ⁓ Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Right. The deprogramming. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: I've really found it like organically and it really feels good and it feels right for me. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. And you know, I've actually considered that just an incredible an incredible luxury in a sense that my parents were able to give that to me, where like they made the conscious decision not to baptize me because is because they weren't actually like practicing Christians or whatever, but they also in that conscious decision it was let her find her own way. Like what a gift. Because the more that I've been Kevin McNee: I love that. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: understanding people that have the

deprogramming that they may need to go through with being released raised in a religious household is ⁓ there's a lot of trauma there. And it was like I think I've had like a general understanding that like there is a lot of trauma when it comes to ⁓ being rela raised religiously potentially, but like to see it in the granular in individuals going through that, I'm like Ooh, that's a heavy thing to have to carry and then understand as you're growing through the years and interpret it for yourself, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah, yeah. You know, I think even just like to to touch on, you know, what we talked about too at the beginning here is ⁓ there's a lack of vulnerability. Right. In in in religion, at least, you know, from what I've seen too, is is like there's and it creates shame. Right. So there's there's this way that you're you know, you're supposed to be. And when you're not, then there you then you're a problem or there's something wrong with you. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: And it's just not true because as we're seeing with with so many of these, a lot of the churches being exposed or or people within the church being exposed, it's like, what if they didn't have the shame to deal with? Or what if what if they could just be like open and vulnerable and being like, you know what? I'm actually struggling with with trying to hold up this this version of myself when, you know, I I I don't really know what to do and and I can't really say anything because, you know. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: I'll be ostracized or or kicked out or not accepted by the people that are supposed to be the ones that love me the most. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah, what's coming up for me is it like it's an incr it creates these incredibly large and long shadows. Right. And then it's like you're like it's shameful that you have this, but there is an impulse to act on having it in in that too. Like, yeah. As soon as we create these pr boxes and parameters for people and tell them that's how you're supposed to that that's what you're supposed to live in, like inevitably. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: you're going to wanna bust out of it consciously or subconsciously, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. But then telling and then telling those those people or our kids or or whomever that if you do go outside that box then then we're not gonna love you. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, you're not we're not gonna love you and your soul may end up in hell for eternity. Just a caveat, you know, like ⁓ This isn't to shit on things. But it's ⁓ it's I love I love chatting about this. ⁓ I I wanna challenge you on something because I've been playing with this a bit, but the term new new age. The term new age, like does it ever feel like a bit of a hang up for you? Because I feel like it's it's Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. Just the the icing on the cake, right? Yeah. Mm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: It's ⁓ it's a misnomer. Like when

we talk when somebody says meditation or breath work or I mean even tarot, if we really want to get ⁓ spicy, no, isn't that kind of like it's not new age, but do you know why we're calling it new age or why people do? Kevin McNee: Yeah. You know what? I don't I I don't know why that's it's called that, because you know, some of these practices are ancient farther, you know, before the Bible was written. Right? You know, like ⁓ breath work, like pranayama breathwork. I teach pranayama breathwork. I'm an instructor, which that was is from India from thousands of years ago. Right? So Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Like Aervedic medicine goes back like millennia as well. And it predates yeah, so it's just like w I feel like it's it's being you it's being weaponized somehow. Like Kevin McNee: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so Well, then there's also too, like, there are are a lot of people that are practicing, you know, what call them the new age practices or, you know, shamanism in a way that is hurtful and it's harmful. Right. And they're using, you know, ⁓ there's a there is a piece for people that want to believe and they want to follow something. Right. Like this this unknown neutrality is really a it's a it's a dangerous place for a lot of people and they don't know where they're Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Kevin McNee: Where they're meant to go or who they're supposed to be. So they'll just attach to something and and we've seen it. There's there's leaders and there's there's people that are that are practicing in ways that that are hurtful and harmful. And ⁓ you know, that's it's it's bringing like that, I'm gonna say like let's say that realm, ⁓ a a bad name. When there's when there's a that's right, when you know I've got to experience Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. The watch for the snake oil salesman. Kevin McNee: so many incredible people that are doing amazing things and it's not exactly how the Bible would do it or how you know a faith christian christianity or or or and you know any sort of religion would would welcome right i still have i carry around in my backpack i have two decks two oracle card decks i have my spirit animal book and and and all of that and i i carry it around with me everywhere i go Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: All all of my sessions have my spirit animal book, the Louise Hey, you can heal your life book about the emotional meaning of how things show up in your body, like those those are all real, right? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Love it. ⁓ cool. Yeah. They're all very viable tools if you use if if I feel like if you are using them ⁓ pro let's say properly, but they're all it's all they're it's all just we're just talking about tools, really, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I've been on ⁓ I've been on psilocybin journeys, I've done ayahuasca, I've opened myself up to like the deepest openings that that we can access. And I would I'm very fortunate for that. And I would recommend that. But I would also say make sure that you're doing it in in a in a safe practice with someone that actually knows what they're doing and and practicing whatever lineage. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: that ⁓ that the tools that they're using come from. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. Okay, so I wanna talk about I've seen you showing up on social media in really incredible ways. And I feel like this probably speaks to the what you were spe talking about earlier with being in service and how you can best serve, but you're also and and that's been cracking open more in the last few weeks and months, you said. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: It's clearly visible because you're speaking from such a centered point of truth within yourself. It's an it's a vulnerable place. Like I feel the vulnerability of it when I see that those shares, but I see what stands out to me even more is the strength that is within that. And then also how that is that it's so rawly authentic that it's speaking to people that. are ⁓ in their own like preparing or that know that they they have their that own that truth within them that's ready to also be expressed and that you're creating a crack or a doorway for someone else to like open that in themselves. So incredible what you're doing but like can we talk about that? Like what's going on? Like Kevin McNee: Yeah. I ⁓ you know, I think one of the things that just ⁓ just comes up for me as you're talking is like, you know, oftentimes I think we get tired of our own shit and we don't allow ourselves to to get out of that. You know, it's I've referred to it too as like ⁓ sometimes when you're stuck in your own shit long enough it starts to smell okay. Right? And then you finally like you go out and and and Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin McNee: Do something different, and then you come back, and it's holy fuck, it stinks in here. You know? And not that I was so tired of my own stuff, but I was like, I'm I wanna get real. There's people that are going through real stuff, and I've been through real stuff as well, and it does and it wasn't talked about. And I wanna I wanna help people understand that it's like what they're going through is actually okay. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: And that that there's another side. Right. And I mean, we've talked about that too, even on here, is like, is it the other side, or is it just like, how can we navigate to get through where it's like, ⁓ I feel fulfilled. I feel like my life has meaning. I feel like, you know, my relationship has depth and connection and and passion that it that we used to have, but now we don't. Or I want to create that and I want to attract that and I don't know how to. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: And a big part of that is is just being open and real and vulnerable to the deepest level that we can do. And that

allows us to be seen fully. And I feel like, you know, maybe for the first time in my life, I'm actually allowing myself to be fully seen. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah, the truth that you're willing to share openly is so powerful. ⁓ and not to I don't and not just for your male audience, for females, because we all have these truths that we first of all need to learn how to get honest with ourselves about. Somebody said something incredible the other day, and I I don't know if they ⁓ somebody I was chatting with or something like that, but they said a true artist is someone that ⁓ is able to tell themselves the truth. Like and I'm paraphrasing badly, but it's just this ability to tell ourselves the truth first. Like you said, like if we sit in the bullshit enough, it it starts to smell good, or we just don't smell it anymore. So like that practice of getting honest with ourselves first, but then being able to get so ⁓ I don't want to say comfortable because that's not the right word, but like being Kevin McNee: I know. Yeah. Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay with the truth and realizing it's just it's a component of us. I mean the let's say the ugly truths, maybe the harder truths. Once we can get past the the expression of it to ourselves and go and being able to express it outwards, there's something so powerful about that. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And you know, it's ⁓ one of the things that I've learned too is like I can I can access it a pretty deep truth within myself, but there's such power when I ask other people. Like, what do you see in me? And that's where I think like having mentorship or having a support system around us, ones that are that want that that that they can see where we can be, they can see the potential in us. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: And actually want us to get there and will challenge us to do that. But then having the courage to like, yes, okay, I'm I'm being as honest as I can with myself. But there's limitations that we can do for ourselves. There's only so many qu right? There's always blind spots, but it's also too, is like, am I actually gonna be fully honest with myself or ask like the the deepest of the deep question? Because when when I asked ⁓ when I asked the people around me or, you know, the the mentors that I've worked with. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's always blind spots. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Like tell me what's what. Like tell me what tell me what I'm not seeing. And being open to hear that is that that's the next level. And going like, ⁓ okay. All right. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. When you can get in rooms or have those relationships with with where people are able to tell you the hard truths, that's pretty much invaluable. Cause it's it's a lot it's really easy to have relationships and friendships and whatever where they just tell you what they think you need wanna hear. But that's not where the gr that's not really where the true growth comes from. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No. And I think being able to being able to hold that, you know, having especially like let's just talk about like our intimate partnerships, like our our, you know, our husbands or our wives or you know, our our partners. ⁓ when they can come to us and say, This is what I need from you, or this is what I'm not getting from you, or this is what I see that's happening, and we can just receive that and not react. Know that it's like, hey, ⁓ yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: It's probably it's it's likely true. That's why it's there's stuff coming up, but we can hold that and go, you know, okay, I hear you and and I wanna be better. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Kevin McNee: It's the ultimate. Right? To be able to like, yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: It is. I'm very thankful for my husband Joel because I can like go to anything for with him. Like and I'm I do kind of like have like the tough love approach sometimes, admittedly. I'm a little ⁓ but he's got like the patience of a freaking saint. But like I know I can literally go to him with for any like anything and he'll hear me and like find those growth points. But like it's not Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: It's not simple even in in that dynamic. Like it's very ⁓ it's a it's a it's a deli it it can be a very delicate thing, you know, depending on the situation. No. Kevin McNee: No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you ever ⁓ do you ever try and soften the blow? It's like, you know, I really I really love you a lot and I love how you show up for me. And Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, I do. Yeah. I tr I'm learn it's it's a learning curve. I've I've only been married five years, but this is all the marriage and r just long term relationship long term healthy relationships are just like a it's just an it's just a lur learning after learning after lesson. It's not simple. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Yeah. You know, and there was a there was a time where I journeyed with ⁓ you know, non monogamy. And and trying to like see if that if that fit and, you know, my partner at the time we we had that as part of as like kind of like one of our one of our agreements. And I always you know, I was nervous with that, right? It brought up a lot for me to even like commit to something like that because of my own insecurities and everything. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: And ⁓ I recognized that I was like, I said yes because I wanted to believe that I had the capacity to navigate that. I was like, here I am, this like this awakened being and so open and and I could navigate something like that. I have the capacity for it. And you know, as we kind of navigated our transition and and ended up, you know, going our separate ways, I recognized that that there is such a power in monogamy. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: And in monogamous relationships. And this is coming from someone who

like, like I cheated on my wife and left our marriage and and got into, you know, into another relationship. And and that was the that was a big part of my awakening journey, going like, why do I do this? Why am I afraid to speak up for myself? Why can't I actually communicate what it is that I want and need instead of just like bailing and going outside of it? Right. So I wanted to face that. I wanted to heal that. And that's been the depth of Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. Kevin McNee: Of my journey is like wanting to have these answers because I didn't like how I was showing up. But I do believe now that the the depth that we can create in monogamous relationships when we just like commit fully, wholeheartedly, both feed in. We can renew and deepen this intimacy and connection every single day in our relationship if we continue to do that. Right. You know, that's where it's like long-term relationships is like. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Kevin McNee: That's the best. Now we have someone that we know loves us, know trusts us when we can depth deepen our communication and ask them for what they need and let them know, ask, let them say, tell me how I can be there for you in the way that you need me to. Man, I got goosebumps thinking about it. It's like it can go deeper every single day. Like, there's nothing better than that. It just keeps pouring into each other and the relationship and and ourselves is like, man, I'm like. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. I know. Kevin McNee: I had it wrong for a time. And thankfully I I kind of got through that. But I wouldn't have known what I know now unless I did that. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. You tried to try it, like that was the experience you needed to get to hear, right? I mean, so cliche, but like you you needed to kind of see the other side of the coin essentially too and experience that. There's Kevin McNee: Yeah. That's that's right. Yeah. And sometimes it's like it's like you don't know until you know. And I'm gonna say for us as guys, and I'll speak for myself. I'm not putting any anyone in there, but it's like I needed to touch the hot stove. Right? It's like you can tell me how hot it is till you're blue in the face, but I'm like, how hot? How hot is it really? It's like, ⁓ fuck, that's really that's really hot. Okay, yeah, I I get it. I'm not gonna touch that. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah, let's just see first, sure. Yeah. So yeah, and you mentioned the the cheating that like that was something that you've opened up about online, which I was just like astounded how of your honesty again. But just so for context for anyone that like we're we're sharing what I've been witnessing, those were some of the things you've been opening up about publicly, which I mean some people would go their whole lives without even like being able to say it out loud, let alone Create a commentary around it and awareness, right? so I just wanted to acknowledge that. But, you know, there's there's something you said, because when I was in my 20s, I would have never been married previously. I got married in like ⁓ 2021. And then in my 20s, I was in some relationships, and I I have also been the cheater because in my mind at the time. And I mean, we can also say there was like some subconscious things happening. It wasn't all totally consciously mapped out and all that. But the harder conversation was leaving the relationship I knew I wasn't supposed to be in. That was the for me, in my mind somehow, that was harder than Kevin McNee: Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Going and cheating and creating an absolute mess of pain and like things that just didn't need to happen. But like I feel like there was kind of something in that that also that that you were sharing in your mechanism. Like when you you cheated on your wife essentially, there was like yeah. Kevin McNee: Hundred hundred percent. Yeah, it's like, you know, it was it was easier to do that and have that as the way out than for me to to try and believe that I was worthy of just walking away. Or asking for what I wanted. It was just such a deep sense of low self-worth that was like, you know what, I'll take this on. I'll Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. ⁓ Mm, mm. Yeah. And strangely, cheating can create a sense of worth too. Kevin McNee: That's it. And you know, it's like here I am. And I mean, even as it as it was as it happened, I'm like, ⁓ man, like this feels like this is what I want. Like I don't want to be a cheater. I don't want I I want to feel like I'm wanted. I want to feel like I'm loved and and this why is this person seeing me, but the one who's dedicated their life to me and committed and is supposed to love me the most in the world doesn't. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: And I mean, I definitely know it's not all on her. It's a hundred percent how I showed up in our relationship and and created this this type of dynamic. but you're right, like that's that's ultimately what I wanted, but I didn't know how to ask for it. I didn't know want to want to say like I have needs or I, you know, I just didn't know how to do that. Right. And and di really didn't believe that I was worthy of them because I had all of this proof. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Saying that that it was true, right? So, yeah, it's a big one. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. And then to go to the last part, which you were sharing, is like the beauty and depth that comes from the healthy, long term, monogamous relationship. Like a hundred percent. And admittedly, I was never in a long term healthy relationship before I got married. Like my husband now is my first long term healthy relationship ever. ⁓ yeah. But it and I I ⁓ When if you look at if you think of like a DNA strand, like if you're just looking at it not 3D like but flat and you know how they like the strands come up

and then they have like these intersection points, that's kind of how I've related my like my relationship to my husband. Like that's how I see it in real time, where we have these like ⁓ intersection points, but then like our journeys are like always continuing and then sometimes they might bow out and then we come back in and then like Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: We bow out. So like the growth is always happening. ⁓ but we're living our own journeys in that. So like if we're on like the far, like if things are really like far out, like our stories are kind of like ⁓ diverged for my like converged. ⁓ my gosh. But they're, you know, like our s our paths have kind of like split a little bit. In the early days, I didn't know like what to make of that or what to think. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: But then when you see when you're in the longer term relationship and that deepening happens, when those points return and we can meet and have the stories and the exchange. And then like there's like these incredible depth moments where we're like, ⁓ our stories just met up again, but we're doing this like together, but like seeing it as like as still as an individual is so powerful. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, do you do you understand that? Kevin McNee: Mm. Mm-hmm. I don't I know exactly what yeah, I totally know what you're saying. And I think that there's that that commitment of knowing that it's like, hey, when we're on our on our big gap right here, I know I know that you're coming back to me. So you can trust that he's he's doing his mission because you know, whether you guys have had that conversation or not, and I think that that is a big part of it is like, here's where I'm at, here's where you're at, and that's okay. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Kevin McNee: We're just let's get through this together because this might be exactly what you need to be able to come back and converge in that way. And that's one of the things too is like when I when I went through my divorce, ⁓ I said, I'm never getting married again. Ever. Like that's it. I I believe in like a sacred union and and a commitment to each other, but like a marriage with, you know, the vows and the the government and all of that, I'm like, fuck that. Like I Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yes. Mm, okay. Yeah. Kevin McNee: I went through the deepest, the deepest depths of hell through my divorce, and I'm now on the other side of it and and I'm not going through that again. But I mean, since I've met Alana and you know, our relationship is like one that I've never experienced before, in large part from how I started to show up from the work that I've done and and how I didn't show up in relationships in the past. And she recognized that and everything that she's done and been through. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: And how we show up for each other, I'm like, man, I could easily see myself getting married again. And it's for like what you said is like knowing that we have that commitment. So like we're all we're we're we're on our same tracks. But knowing that that we're always kind of like doing this, and you know, when when we do converge, it's like so powerful. But you know, and sometimes, you know, you might be you might be way ahead, and he's like, Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. There's a dance. Yeah. Or it may feel that way. And then when you converge, it's like, ⁓ you were just kind of like doing your own thing over here, but you the growth was still happening in, you know, there is that aspect too. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and sometimes too. Well, and sometimes too, it just might mean that that one partner needs to hold the ground. Needs to be that anchor and be that lighthouse where it's like, hey, you know what? I'm still the beacons going around. You still know where I am. I'm here solid. You go do what you need to do. Right. And I love you no matter what. You know, like there's there's just such depth in that. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: And I lost that. I never had that in my marriage. I never knew how to commit to it fully. There was I'll say there was always a part of me that was like I didn't know how to do that. You know, it was always like what if what if, you know, there's there's something more out there for me because I didn't really ⁓ didn't really have that belief and and that worth in myself. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, yeah, it's not simple. Kevin McNee: No Darrel-Lynne Thieson: It's not simple, but there when you can find the joy in the chal in in the dynamic of like the challenge and then like the beauty, like it's it makes it a f for me, I like a good challenge. I like a fun challenge. So like it it makes it more playful that way. And it doesn't have to feel even though it relationships in general, ⁓ at least for me and I think like a lot of people are relationships are hard. Kevin McNee: ⁓ Yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: in general friendships, family relationships, any kind, there's there's so much that comes with it. But like especially in my marriage is we that we it's we make it fun. The challenge the it's there's a f such an element of fun to the challenge because it's like okay we just signed up for this for life. How are we gonna do this? Right. Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's it's I love that you brought that up because you know, I think a lot of people lose that play. That play and fun and joy in their life. And it's like life gets serious and it gets heavy and there's all of the stuff and we there's the endless to do list and whatever. And it's like, where's the play and joy and adventure and just like laughter in your life? And this is something that, you know, I lost that. And it's something that I, you know, I've put that as as one of my core values now. It's a Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: adventure and in that

is like play, laughing, and just having some fun with it. And you know what as you were talking to, I was just thinking like, what if what if this was the best that it could ever be? Like if if this was the best that your relationship would ever get. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: What fun would that be? That's where it's like when you're going through the hardships or you're navigating some challenges and stuff like that. It's inviting all of us into showing up in a new way, in a better way. And and that's where I'm like, how can I serve more? And not to give myself away, but how can I actually feed our relationship? What can I do? Right? Hey, I I noticed that Alana's, you know, she's struggling or Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Uh-huh. Mm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: Or she's busy and she's got the kids and her business and stuff like that. You know what? They have this cool thing now called DoorDash. And I can literally phone or I can like type into my phone and order her dinner and have it delivered directly to her house so she doesn't have to cook. And I'll just say, Hey, listen, let's have dinner together. ⁓ it's gonna be there in 25 minutes, and we'll do a FaceTime. You know, but Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Pretty Yeah. ⁓ I love that. Cause yeah, you have that additional ⁓ challenge, I suppose, of the long distance factor too. So how can I ask like how often do are you able to be in person with each other? Kevin McNee: Yeah. We've intentionally made it so that we're we're going to see each other once a month for like, you know, anywhere from three to five days. So there's been times where there's been a couple of months where I saw her three times in one month. Right, just the way that it worked out. But but yeah, so you know, she's got her kids and and has them, you know, ⁓ at least fifty percent of the time. My kids are live live up north in in northern BC, so I don't have them as much. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: But ⁓ my daughter was living with me full time for seven months and is planning on moving down again in September. So that will shift things again. But you know, just being very intentional with that and having the long distancing has really allowed us to connect on such a deeper level. And our c my ⁓ I'll just I won't speak for her, but my communication skills have skyrocketed to where they used to be. To where now it's like, yeah. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay. Yeah. I imagine so you you're kind of it's four like I would is forest reasonable? Like you have to adjust because of the distance that much more, right? Kevin McNee: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. And it's like little things like, ⁓ is everything okay? I haven't heard from you today. I'm like, ⁓ everything's great. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm busy doing my thing or whatever. She's like, ⁓ okay, well, would it be okay if you just like checked in with me and just let me know? And even if it's like an emoji. So now I'm like, ⁓ okay. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Totally. Kevin McNee: She's asking for me to connect. This is what she needs to know that that we're the everything's okay. And just like acknowledge that, right? And I'm like, okay. So, you know, as as I'm going through the day, or it's like it's been a little bit. And we always have time. There's always a moment. I'm on my phone like a lot too, just like everybody else. It's like, you know what? I can just be like, hey, send her a little heart emoji. Or, you know, I'm thinking about you. You know. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Yeah. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so also for anyone listening, Alana was on the podcast previously. And at the time, when I interviewed Alana, I said, tell us about your best kept secret, which was Kevin. Cause I I like I explained it on the other episode, but go listen because it's such a beautiful conversation that I had with Alana, because she's the lead author of Living with Grief. Kevin McNee: Things like that. Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha Darrel-Lynne Thieson: also which is a publication, a sovereign acres publication that's coming out. I think she said Kevin McNee: Which they just they just changed they changed the name. It's called the Tapestry of Grief. Living with Yeah. A tapestry with grief living with loss and love. I believe is the yeah, it's really beautiful. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Tapestry okay, that's good to know. Tapestry of grief. Okay. It's a book about it's a book about grief though. Yeah? Okay. They've they've of yeah, that's the central theme. Okay, I love it though. But we're just so you guys have been lead authors of two publications at the same time. Like it's just awesome. I love it. And Alana is such a beautiful human. Kevin McNee: It is, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, she really is. Yeah. I'm ⁓ I'm very lucky and I there's ⁓ and I say this to her too, and and it jokingly, right? But you know, there's there's times where I'm I'm like, I'm not really sure what I did to attract someone like her into my life. Like, you know, it's ⁓ it was interesting as I as I was going out of my my previous relationship and and navigating the grief of that and and I really went through it and I allowed myself to feel it and go through it maybe for the first time. And I would say I was probably still grieving Darrel-Lynne Thieson: So grounded. Mm. Kevin McNee: you know, the my marriage as well. Right. But when I finally got through to a point where I started to feel better and and ready to to to really like lean into this new this next stage, I wrote down what I wanted in a new partner. And I was pretty detailed. Like I'm like, I want them to be this age. I want them to have kids that are my kids' age or older. I they need to have done some work on themselves because I don't want to be in a relationship where we're Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Kevin McNee: smashing our traumas against each other like I had in the past and you know and then like down the

line and I and ⁓ and then I met I met Ilana and I we met in person. We had met through like a coaching container we ended up being a part of ⁓ first so like seeing her seeing her face online and and on Instagram. But then when we met in person for the first time I was like, there's something here, right? Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Yeah. ⁓ wow. Kevin McNee: So technically it wasn't the first time, but it was the first time we actually just hung out one on one. I happened to be down in Vancouver at a at a family reunion and and she was close by. So we went for coffee and and ⁓ I was like, ⁓ man, there's there's something here. I feel this. And then I was like, She literally had everything on the checklist and then like so much more, except she didn't live in the same town as me and I forgot that on my list. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay. Mm. Right. ⁓ yeah. But you're gonna make it work. You make it work. I mean, checking off all the boxes but happens to be a little long distance, ⁓ worth it. Kevin McNee: Yeah, it's ⁓ pretty special. Totally. And you know what? It's actually been a blessing for us, right? You know, we're both navigating like the business journey. She's she runs her own business. She's a psychotherapist and and ⁓ you know and coach and and I'm and I'm doing the same thing. So trying to, you know, grow and maintain stability and consistency. And also, you know, she's got her kids too. And and we we've we said that we likely wouldn't have even lived together if we lived in the same town anyway. So Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: This gives us an opportunity for our own freedom. But then when we get together, it's so connected and so intimate. It's just like and so present in a way that I've never experienced before. And it's like, ⁓ yeah. And and it does make it hard, right? Like when every time I leave, like there's a grief. There's a grief that comes up with it. And the next day I'm like, I I feel that too. We both do. So, but ⁓ we've ⁓ we've been talking about like Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: You know, long distance, there's a whole stigma around it. It's like, ⁓ it never works and it's so hard and all of this stuff. And I'm like, it also I think it also limits people from from seeing who who they can truly connect with because the dating world is a pretty crazy place right now. And if we're only looking at our little sphere of like what's around us, you know, we might be living our limiting ourselves from from the love of our lives. And and I did that for for too long. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Okay, so are we gonna see a merger happening anytime? Is someone gonna relocate? I mean, okay, you don't have to no spoilers, no spoilers, but Kevin McNee: We've been and we've been talking about that too and and that it's ⁓ it's a bit that's a bit of a challenge, but you know, we've ⁓ we've been making it work and and it's ⁓ it's been really beautiful and it's something

that ⁓ you know, it's one of the greatest things that I have going on in my life right now. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Sure. I love that. I love it. Okay, so lastly here, and I can't believe we've like blown through an hour already, but like do you want to share a little bit about your coaching and your the men that you're working with and how that works? Cause I've even reached out to you on a personal level level inquiring and I'm hoping the timing can align here at some point. But like let's I want to hear it, like give us the inside glimpse into like men's coaching and especially your container. Kevin McNee: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So I do ⁓ I started out doing men's coaching ⁓ one on one and that's where that's what I did for the you know for the first few years I started in twenty twenty one and ⁓ yeah one on one coaching is it holds a special place in my heart and I think that that that is where a lot of guys ⁓ find find an opportunity to to be in a safe space with someone that can actually hold that, a man that's been there, been through it, and I've just seen such powerful Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: transformations just in creating a space like that. So the men, the men that I work with, ⁓ the ones that the ones that have been showing up for me, and when people ask me who my avatar is, I'm like, it's me. You know, men that are that are successful, high performers, they have a lot to be grateful for. They have a what's like a pretty damn good life, but they're just missing that depth. There's something, there's something that's missing Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Right. Mm, mm-hmm. Right. Kevin McNee: Whether it's, you know, a belief in something more, whether it's like intimacy and and deepened connection with their relationships, which is the that's kind of the the that's the piece that I love working on the most because I see most successful guys, they've felt like they needed to focus on their business so much and that provide that provision and providing that now they don't know how to connect deeper with their partner. And they've got they have that level of success where Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Okay. Mm, mm-hmm. Kevin McNee: Like that's where they want. Especially men in and around like forty years old. There's like this transition and you know, we call it midlife crisis or whatever, but it's this midlife I call it the midlife questioning. It's like, is this how I want to live my life going forward? 'Cause I've already I've already been through a lot, right? So so that's a little bit the the one on one container that I have. I work with guys three months, six months, twelve months, whatever term feels aligned for them. And we really ⁓ Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Mm. Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin McNee: We really just go deep and and create some some real transformation by asking deep questions and being open and honest and real and holding their feet to the fire. It's like this is this is who you say that you want to be. I'm gonna help you and I'm gonna be there alongside you to get there because you deserve it. Your wife deserves it, your partner deserves it, and so does the people around you. So that's ⁓ that's a bit about the one on one work. And then I have the men for more mastermind, which is is really Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Kevin McNee: It's a special place. Right. It's it's a lot of these guys that, you know, like I say, successful guys, but want depth and connection with other men that are on, you know, on the same path or a similar path, you know, to connect with and have real conversations with. And we get together in person and I host in-person events as well. But this Men for More Mastermind is something that's really special. And you get to see what it's like when men drop the walls, open up. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Mm. Kevin McNee: and share what's on their heart and also to receive wisdom and and gifts from the other men that that are sharing as well. So it's really a container that ⁓ that's super special and every day it it just gets better. So we gather we gather every week and multiple times a month in our in our Men for More Mastermind. And ⁓ yeah it's ⁓ it's making some big shifts and a in a powerful way. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Wow. Amazing or do I have the link for your can they just go to your Instagram to find no more info? Okay, I'm gonna link it in ⁓ the show notes. Kevin McNee: Yeah. think gourmet yeah it's ⁓ it Okay, yeah, the the underscore Kevin underscore McNe. So the Kevin McNee. And then ⁓ yeah, www.menformore.com. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: ⁓ amazing. Okay, so thank you so much for the service that you've already been in, like delivering wholeheartedly. But I know there's just like so much more for you to come from you, Kevin. So grateful to just even be in you the network, ⁓ the same network, the same ⁓ community, let's say, because you're just your energy is so felt. You are creating the ripple. So thank you so much. And I'm very excited to see your book come out next week. Kevin McNee: Mm. Thank you. Amazing. Thanks. ⁓ thank you for that, Dee. And you know, I love ⁓ I love your energy too and and seeing you showing up so vulnerably and and sharing your story has been been really special. So, you know, keep shining your light on the world as well. Darrel-Lynne Thieson: Yeah. Thank you. I will. Thank you so much. And congratulations in advance on your launch on Tuesday. Crush it. Woohoo! All right. Kevin McNee: Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited.