บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Clutter, Curiosity and Collaboration

true. And and and just making sure that everything has earned earned its place and that It looks like if you're gonna do a bit of work, are you gonna wanna do it on a scrap of paper? Ginny Bootman: I know, I know. And also it then comes back to everything being accessible. Now have I told you that I've got a label maker? Yeah. Dr Sarah Moseley: Yeah, I love a label maker. Ginny Bootman: So, you know, I label boxes in cupboards so that anyone in the house can get them, which means I don't have to get everything. In the classroom, I've talked about this a lot, having the see-through plastic goldfish bowls with things on shelves so the children go to get things. If you want to do an audit, audit, audit, sounds like audit, if you want to do an audit of a classroom, all you need to do Sarah is you go into the classroom and you say to a child, can you please go and get me a piece of plain paper? Right? And if they do not know where there is a piece of plain paper, A4 plain paper in that classroom, then you are like, well, what else can't they, what else can't they access? Honestly, if you go in or even worse, the A4 plain paper draw has got the scrap paper in it. It's like to make things easier for everybody. Dr Sarah Moseley: Yeah. I I I yeah, I think that's that's a good I think we've already had a discussion as well about selling things and when we do get rid of things trying to sell them and and all of the joys that that can bring as well. And and and actually I think that's also that whole thing about your time being precious and Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: actually being aware of what do I want to spend my time on, what should I spend my time on. Do I keep wanting to have to try and close the wet play cupboard or should I just one day minimize it to the key things that people are gonna that I know that my learners of a class like or I can rotate five different things that they can have in the wet play cupboard that they choose between. Yeah. Ginny Bootman: Sarah, I am so with this or don't have a cupboard have drawers because they are far more easily accessible than one Dr Sarah Moseley: I like. Ginny Bootman: cupboard that opens and everything falls out or another I mean I used to like do a kind of a kind of you know, I'd say right Everyone these are the rules in the classroom for you know, who wants to play? You know, I will play you know with you and then suddenly it just became People just like that. it's about how we store things. About how we store things. If things are broken, why are we keeping them in the classroom? Because that bit of jigsaw ain't gonna... We're not in Toy Story, Sarah. It's not gonna find its way back in the middle of the night, I don't think. Dr Sarah Moseley: I no, I don't think so either. I like the idea of clear clear containers actually, because I think Ginny Bootman: Yeah. Yeah. Dr Sarah Moseley: about all those boxes that you would have in cupboards and how actually know that and labels, Ginny. I think

I want you to come and label all my things in my house. Ginny Bootman: Okay. Dr Sarah Moseley: but it is, it's that understanding about, you know, we're at the beginning of a year, we've got a fresh start, we're Ginny Bootman: Yeah. Dr Sarah Moseley: we've got time to we haven't got time, which is what we think. But again, it's sometimes stopped doing there was a great thing on the radio. Yeah, is it like this week? On Sunday maybe, and I was listening to it, I was driving, and it was saying that autumn is kind of one of those times of years when you're s you're, as I think I said from the last show was about, you know, you're assaulted by so many changes. You've got changes in everything, plus the weather changes, the light changes, all of that stuff. And so your body's like full of change. And it said rather than like at the start of a new year in terms of January, adding something new. It was talking about taking something away. So it said it encouraged you and interesting because I actually had a conversation. I was sat in the car with a family and I was like, what are we going to take away then for autumn? What could we stop doing that we've been doing before? Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: But like thinking your classroom, what is it that causes some of those difficult things that we could change? Yeah. Ginny Bootman: Yes, and bottlenecks. The whole idea of bottlenecks, I mean, in my book, I talk about, imagine that you are the child who has got their tray at the very bottom and you're all told to get something at the same time and it becomes like a rugby scrum and you are at the bottom and you've got six other children trying to get to their trays at the same time. It's just, I think it's... Like I say, have someone else looking in or try to look with fresh eyes and actually less is more often, isn't it? Dr Sarah Moseley: Yeah. And I think I I'm on my thing was I'm gonna try like I'm gonna gonna try to when we have family time and games times or whatever, I'm not even gonna have my phone in the room. So I'm gonna just like I'm gonna take away some Ginny Bootman: Yeah. Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: of the ability to be contacted continuously or Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: to have things constantly vying for my attention, which Ginny Bootman: Thanks. Dr Sarah Moseley: you know, really, really interesting. And I was talking about this with with with another family just because I was saying, you know, actually the idea of taking something away at the start of a new year, not adding something else. Because actually we do, we say, well, we're gonna get ourselves fit now for the, you know, we're gonna actually Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: eat better or we're gonna which of course we don't 'cause we're heading to Christmas. and they said actually when they had the conversation with their one of their children, that the child said, you know, actually what I'd like to sort out is how I feel about school. So I'd like to change that. So I want to stop having the worry about that. And then that led to a whole nother conversation. Ginny Bootman: Wow. Dr Sarah Moseley: So it's actually that understanding that what can I take away? I can take away a worry, or I could take away something that I do, or I could take away a chore that I have, which is something which I feel I'm just doing for the sake of it. So that was kind of yeah, off yeah, off tangent really. But Ginny Bootman: Well, it wasn't because it became a full-blown it became a full-blown well more than a conversation Dr Sarah Moseley: Blown conversation. And and and yeah, yeah, no. And I and I think I was just going to kind of add around my well moment was about I had I went to see Michael Rosen. and he was Ginny Bootman: Yeah. Dr Sarah Moseley: giving a performance or a reading of his books and really, really good. It was it was really lovely to hear some of the kind of classic chocolate cake and some of the kind of like things around why he'd written certain things about the cat, the the story about the cat, kind of what what that was, where that's come from. and the wow moment there, we went for a book signing, and I think it goes back to yours there as well, Jeannie. Went to a book signing, which is the local library, and they had got all the books they could find by Michael Rosen, and they put them on a display. And some of them were tatty, kind of quite battered books, but it said, Can you guess who's coming in today? And I thought, I love that. You know, can you guess what we're thinking about this week? Can you guess what we're our topic is this half term? Can you guess what the weather's gonna be like? as we're you know, so just having your things or your books or your things themed for a little bit. Yeah. Ginny Bootman: Love, yeah. You see, it's really interesting because we went through an iteration of doing that so much. It'd be 10 odd years ago when we did the work of Ernest Shackleton and the children were all people on board the ship and we recreated where they were all in the original. picture and we did it another photo in sepia and we had all the we we put tents out and they were all sent a letter through the post during the Christmas holidays to tell them which crew member they were going to be and you know I think there's a big conversation around that about the why is that not happening as much and I I don't know if it goes back to the conveyor beltness made that word up Dr Sarah Moseley: Sometimes well. Ginny Bootman: the conveyor beltness of education that that that we've gone back onto the treadmill, which isn't allowing the time or the space for these amazing things to happen to engage children with their learning. I think it's a really, I just think it's a really interesting kind of... something to consider in these times of ours. We've got so many things flying in, haven't we? Dr Sarah Moseley: But again, it was that understanding of kind of yes, take something else away maybe, but then

remember that just those little things that made the learners curious when they came in in the morning, and not a Ginny Bootman: Blah! Dr Sarah Moseley: big but not a big thing. You know, you've either Ginny Bootman: Yes! Dr Sarah Moseley: got a book or you've got an object on your desk or you've got something Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: and just that kind of getting everyone that connection again of of just connecting back to, ooh, what we're doing today, what we're doing this week. Ginny Bootman: And Dr Sarah Moseley: Your fat. Ginny Bootman: I I love it when people talk about glimmers. Dr Sarah Moseley: Yeah. Ginny Bootman: The glimmer, or it's a shiny thing. I love that, Sarah, bringing it back to what is manageable, you know, what will bring joy. We'll go back to this again, don't we? What will bring joy and will engage all of us. It's not just the children, it's all of us. We all need to be engaged and enjoy what we're doing, don't we? So I'm gonna throw a song at you. Dr Sarah Moseley: Go on. Ginny Bootman: And I may have done this one before, but I just love it so much. It's called Ordinary by Alex Warren. And Dr Sarah Moseley: stop it. Makes me cry. Ginny Bootman: the lyrics are just so profound. We'll make the mundane our masterpiece. I think in education, in special needs, we must never ever forget what we see as potentially mundane, isn't mundane, that is our masterpiece. We need to keep going with those things that are working. And I know when we were at Nathan Live, Anne-Marie Hussle was saying, you are all doing so, so much now. We need to keep those bits. And obviously, from my point of view, that all comes back to relationships, relationships with the children, relationships with the parents, relationships with the staff and It isn't mundane, it's integral. And then the other lyrics that I love are, you're the sculptor, sorry, you're the sculpture, I'm the clay. It must be, you're the sculptor, I'm the clay. In education, wow, that's quite profound, isn't it? That we have got these children, let's say they are the clay, and we are the people. who together, education and school, we are helping them become their best person. And actually, how can we all work together? When I say sculpt, I don't mean sculpt, but just allow them to thrive by working together. That was all very deep, Sarah, wasn't it? Dr Sarah Moseley: It was all very deep, but I think it's a really relevant, which is really interesting because the song that I was going to throw at you was with a little help from my friends by the Beatles. And it's the same, and again, Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: because it's this coming back to we all need that connection, we all need each other. We don't have to do any of this alone. But the way that the kind of, and I guess again, you were saying the treadmill, the the way that we're being kind of slightly Forced into maybe silos and and and sort of just doing things in a certain way on our own makes us forget that actually families, you know, schools, professionals, we're all there to do the same thing and to support each other. And actually it's like, you know, everything is possible with a little help from my friends. We don't Ginny Bootman: Love it. Dr Sarah Moseley: see each other. As friend, you know, we as friends, and often in schools, the parents and the carers become on the other side of almost the opposite of that, not as enemies, but as certainly Ginny Bootman: No. Dr Sarah Moseley: not as friends. And it's like actually, we are all trying to do the same thing. I had a wonderful meeting with brilliant a professional who's working around tribunals and EHCPs and everything, and she's working with families, and she said, one of the things is that. too often the fight becomes within send the fight becomes that we're on opposite sides of the kind of like of the cause but we're not we're both on this we both want the same thing it's just my opinion and your opinion are different and that's okay and so what we need Ginny Bootman: Well, yeah. Dr Sarah Moseley: to do is find how the bits from my opinion might be changed or I might be supported to understand bits that would work better. or work together or we we basically pull bits of each of them and come to a workable package for the young person. Ginny Bootman: Yeah, because, ultimately, people see things through different lenses. They are, it's, yeah, Dr Sarah Moseley: Come back to that, yeah. Ginny Bootman: and people are seeing things differently. They are not consciously being difficult, but there becomes a, a kind of misalignment. And I often say that really, we, we often could do with somebody being that mediator, that person just to, as my wonderful Yorkshire father would say, calm the job down, but to go, you're seeing it this way, and you're seeing it this way. And actually there is a, there is a, Dr Sarah Moseley: Middle. Ginny Bootman: a, well, there is a middle, but, but there can be, I talk about people putting their armour on because people are ready for a metaphoric fight. But everyone's trying to do their best. So no, I completely agree about just joining together, isn't it? And well, I talk all the time, don't I, about the Spider's Web of Trust. But yeah, they're brilliant. So have you got a book for me, Sarah? Dr Sarah Moseley: I have got a book. I think I've talked about this before about the Vox block. So I'm a lover of audiobooks. I don't know if I've talked about, I'm sure I have talked about the Vox Block. Ginny Bootman: yeah. Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: and so I love so obviously when we're looking at the ways that young people can access an audiobook, you've got some brilliant free audio libraries. You've got Calibra, you've got listening books, you've got these kind of charities that do the great. You've got your borrow box from your local library that you just get. you know, audiobooks borrowed and and and it's not an alternative, it's not a instead of. but so so my book, so it was one, so it's Howls Moving Castle. Now I don't know if you'd so Studio Ghibli, always say it wrong. So my son is particularly into kind of its anime, these films. Ginny Bootman: Well, Dr Sarah Moseley: So it's Totoro. Again, I don't quite say it right, but and it's this kind of type of film. And we've just discovered that one of them, the films, which is particularly kind of quite bizarre actually, is has been made into has obviously has a there was a book before the film. and so because we've watched the film, I say this we, the entire family, including the cat, probably 40 times. Now listening to the book and listening to it as well, also it's the whole thing, and I talked about this before with audiobooks. with whether the child likes the voice of this audiobook. And and what I love about these Vox blocks as well, they're great. And if you're listening to this, you you're I've got the kind of a player which is very robust, screen free. and then you've got like a little book, which I love because it's like a tape. And it's got a magnet Ginny Bootman: Yes. Dr Sarah Moseley: on the back and it just goes into the player and then it's really easy to start and stop. And I like the selections of voices that they have. Before you buy the book you can hear a little bit of sample. But How's Moving Castle, it's got lots of kind of hope and possibility and and changes, but it was more around engaging people in reading. Because these films are a bit and the anime, it's kind of a bit trendy and a bit slightly something that upper Key Stage 2, particularly boys maybe, are more into. Actually getting the books relating to this is another way in. for them to be exposed to that vocabulary, hearing the story, maybe having the book at the same time. So that's mine. That's mine. Ginny Bootman: Love it! thank you Sarah, what are they called? Voxbox? Vox-Block? brilliant! Dr Sarah Moseley: Box block. So like a block. And they've got so many different books and I've just managed to get ten tokens, which means I've got a free book. So and I'm getting Madison Wonderland. There you go. Ginny Bootman: brilliant, there you go. Well, thank you. Thank you again so much to so much to think about as always. And I think, you know, it's a case of go into your classrooms or go into each other's classrooms and kind of have a look at that, that wet play cupboard. You know, yeah, yeah, I find it fascinating what we end up speaking about, Sarah, I really do. But as we say, it's always a pleasure. Dr Sarah Moseley: Never a chore, Ginny. Thank you. See you next time. Bye. Ginny Bootman: on it's own.