บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ep. 42 - Enhancing Therapy Skills: TMJ, Myofascial Work, and Pelvis Alignment with Marnie Matyus

pick ourselves up by the seat of our pants. And, what they say, put the big girl panties on and let's get going. Right. Absolutely. whenever I'm in a rut, and I've been doing this for what, how long? 16 years now, I, get in a rut and the first thing I do is start shopping for continuing education classes, yeah. I mean, is that something that you would recommend people do if they're in a rut? Marni Matyus: 100%. Every time I go and learn something new, it reinvigorates my passion for the work. Absolutely. Well, I take a class, get some work, get worked on, learn something new that you can bring to your clients. It makes a huge difference.  Julie Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and that's another thing you just [00:08:00] mentioned, which is get worked on. I mean, what a great way to continue to learn by putting some having someone else work on you.  TMJ Dysfunction Class OverviewJulie Alexander: I think we've set ourselves up pretty good to talk about the classes this year. Are you ready to talk about this year's classes? Sure. The first one on the agenda I'm really excited about and I'm, going to take it. It is your TMJ class, your famous TMJ class.. Yeah. Let's talk about the class. It is on Sunday, April 27th, from 10 to five. And what are we going to learn about TMJ dysfunction, Marnie? Marni Matyus: The most exciting part of that class for me is learning to gently and almost pain free in an almost pain free way to do intraoral work. So we do a lot of anatomy and a lot of understanding about where those muscles are, what the structures are that we'll be working on. I teach how to work on them externally, [00:09:00] but really what you really, the money part of that class is learning to work inside the mouth. safely, effectively and gently. I had experiences with other practitioners with more training and more licenses than me that used a lot of pressure and a very aggressive techniques to release, say, lateral pterygoid, which is a super sensitive muscle. And. I don't believe in that, I'm not gonna lie. It's a very sensitive area. Sometimes just touching it will elicit a pain response because it's so sensitive and it's never been touched before the spot behind your ear. If you follow the gum line all the way back, the top gum line all the way to the back, that's where lateral is and it's spelled like a P like pterodactyl. And we'll, learn all about that and what all the connection, where that connects to, but it [00:10:00] connects to your sphenoid, to the maxilla, to the disc inside the TMJ joint itself. And it's a super sensitive place, but my approach is to work with it, to have a conversation with it, and to be super, super gentle to facilitate unwinding. And when we approach the body. In this way, we're holding space for a full body fascial release, as well as emotional release if it's, needed, if the body is ready to go there, but I'm really proud of the way that I'm able to teach students to gently release those structures. So it's

not a trauma for the client. And then in the last class, we actually had time at the last, at the end of the class to do some buckle massage to get the smile lines to start working on unwinding some of these other, I guess it's more cosmetic, but truly [00:11:00] where we hold tension in our faces reflects the emotions that we carry. So by releasing these other, maybe what you might have put into a cosmetic kind of massage in the past. I'm approaching it from a fascial reflexology and an emotional standpoint. I think the, what you see in the face reflects whatever else is going on. So we'll, hopefully have time to do that too.  Julie Alexander: I have a couple of questions. I am not comfortable working inside the mouth. I have, I've I've been doing this a long time, and I've kind of avoided it on purpose. I don't want to do any. I have avoided doing any intro oral work. I don't like to go inside the ear. I don't want to go inside mouth, nose I'm just not that comfortable with that. What would you say to me if I want to take your TMJ class and have the most effective divacy [00:12:00] of your, techniques, how do I do that and get past this mental block? I have, what do you think is the mental block is about? I think I'm terrified. Somebody's going to bite me.  Marni Matyus: Good call. So I would say for the techniques that we're going to learn in class, there's only one that they have an opportunity to bite you. Most of it is between the cheek and the gum.  Julie Alexander: Okay. So we're kind of on the outside of the teeth. So we're between the gums and the, cheek. So really most of the opportunity is not there to bite me. That's correct. Good. And I'm assuming that you teach with rubber gloves on. We use  Marni Matyus: nitrile gloves, yes. Julie Alexander: Okay perfect,  Marni Matyus: And, we'll teach glove hygiene. We'll teach how to talk, how to approach your client, how to talk to your client about this work, and why they would want to let you work inside the mouth.  Julie Alexander: Yeah, those are all great [00:13:00] things to discuss, and all things that we need to all learn and know how to do if we're gonna stick that rubber glove in their mouth.  So I know that there's a lot of really beautiful releases that happen in the masseter and the other muscles around the jaw when you work inside. So I'm really excited about taking that class You mentioned emotional somatic release with TMJ. Another thing that maybe our listeners can relate to this kind of fear as well is that I'm not really a big fan of people crying on my table. I know it's a part of massage and I know it's a part of what we want to deal with because there's Emotions that kind of linger in our body. And we release those as we do massage and body work. Can you talk a little bit about that?  Marni Matyus: Thank you, Julie. I think over the [00:14:00] last five years or so, especially since I've been at Kikino, my practice has shifted from a more orthopedic and medical massage practice to really somatic body work. So my specialty nowadays is helping clients to, to feel. So many people in our world are disassociated and chronically anxious and chronically trying to avoid those uncomfortable feelings that they're having inside. So most of my work is helping people to have those feelings. Now I also say that spirit gives us what we're ready to handle. And I think that somehow the inner physician to use John up ledgers terms or the higher self somehow knows this practitioner in front of me can help me with this thing today. And if that's not an emotional release, it's unlikely to happen. Does that make sense?  Julie Alexander: Yeah.  was perfect, Marnie. I love the way you [00:15:00] described that.  Marni Matyus: Thank  Julie Alexander: you.  Marni Matyus: And, for me, the most profit I've finally been able to get to root cause. To finally be able to get some permanent relief from pain syndromes that I was approaching week after week when we finally notice the holding patterns and can actually go inside and allow ourselves to feel those uncomfortable emotions, then miraculously the pain diminishes or evaporates completely. So it's been a really powerful practice.  Julie Alexander: I've been reading this book called The Obstacle Is Your Path, The Obstacle Is Your Path. And basically it means that the problem is your solution, like facing your problem head on is your, solution. And it's so uncomfortable, but it's so important. Because to get through the pain of what you're going through in your physical body, sometimes it does take a little bit of [00:16:00] discomfort. I mean, one thing I think you're really good at Marnie is that light touch, and backing off and really finding, some resolution without that pain. So I'm very thankful for that. Thank you. All right. So the next class will be in May. And that's a perfect intro into this conversation, isn't it? Yes, ma'am. What do you know that was not planned out, but perfectly timed into somatic body work.  Somatic Body Work ExplainedJulie Alexander: So can you describe for us what somatic body work  Marni Matyus: is? Absolutely. So somatic body work for me is a container. To allow, to invite clients to actually feel, to feel physical sensations, but also emotional sensations. in our world, most people live in fight or flight. It's not uncommon to [00:17:00] live in a disassociated state. We have become very. Practiced at pushing away uncomfortable feelings so that we can survive. It's a survival skill, but we've forgotten how to actually go inside and allow ourselves to feel sadness, pain, shame, anger, any of those maybe negative emotions and with body work, I'm teaching people to feel. Do you know what it means to be disassociated?  Julie Alexander: Yes.  Marni Matyus: Can I give an example? Most people don't understand. Yes, please do. When you go to the gynecologist, you get on the table, and you're undressed, your feet are in the stirrups, you give consent for the

doctor to do what she needs to do, and then you go somewhere else in your mind. So you're not, so most people, me included, are very disassociated. We don't really want to know what's going on. That's kind of an extreme example, but [00:18:00] the opposite of that is to actually be very focused and very feeling with whatever is happening in our bodies. So I'm not doing that in my session, but I might just place my hands on a place where there's restriction, where the energy is not flowing, where the inner physician has called me and invite the client to actually feel what's happening there. I might invite them to feel a fascial release that's happening. I might be working on their neck and unwinding their thoracic spine or their diaphragm. And I'm inviting them to feel into those places. And sometimes when they go there, it's hard to, it's hard to feel that, but when they do, they might feel sadness or another emotion underneath that. So somatic body work I use in that class, it's only one day class, but we'll really talk about holding space for that, using whatever modalities. your toolbox. If [00:19:00] I had the ability to do a longer class, like an intensive, it would be including myofascial techniques and cranial sacral techniques and some energy medicine kind of work in the way that I do it. But truthfully, we can hold that container and use any technique that we have. Especially Swedish, especially cranial sacral, but even deeper work, even really deep myofascial work. If you can go slow and keep the sensation, the pain level at a level that the clients can actually feel some, in my opinion, when we do really deep, hard, fast orthopedic techniques, we may get a result in that localized area. But if we really want clients to be able to feel it, we have to go a little slower, a little more gently, but the result of that is that we can get unwinding, not just [00:20:00] in that spot, but throughout the whole body. So I'll talk about that and how to hold space for that. We'll start to get into some therapeutic dialogue, how to walk your clients through that. How to stay grounded in your own body so that when clients start to cry, I don't freak out. I say, thank you. I want them to know that they're safe and they're held and they can experience whatever they need to experience. They can say anything, they can sing, they can chant, they can speak in tongues, they can yell. Thank you. So we'll hold space for all of that. And sometimes they're flail. It doesn't happen often, but sometimes people will move around on the table. Sometimes I need to cast at their ex husband. Whatever comes up, but a lot of times it's just tears. There's something really miraculous that happens that when that inner child, when that hurt place feels seen, it's almost a relief. It's [00:21:00] often tears of relief.  Julie Alexander: So what is your advice when, a client starts crying and it becomes a little uncomfortable in the room.  Marni Matyus: Really, my goal is for them to feel comfortable, for them to just feel safe, to be whatever they need to be. In our world, it's not uncommon in relationships when I start to cry, somebody will tell me to stop crying. Because they think that's helpful. Right. And really most often what I need is permission to cry to go all the way into it. And as a practitioner, I try to look at them through the eyes of the divine. If there was a mother, God, what would mother God do? She would just hold her child and let her cry. And that's what I try to be like, whatever I can do to help them feel safe.  Julie Alexander: I've taken on a very motherly attitude in my practice as well. And it has [00:22:00] really like done me good, to take on a, caring motherly role, even to people who are way older than me. Cause they need moms too. Marni Matyus: And it's that energy of nurturing and safety and acceptance. I want them to know they can say anything and I, I don't judge them.  Julie Alexander: I don't judge them. That's really an important thing to do as a therapist, I think. And, as, leaders in our industry, you and I, and the other people that I interview on my podcast and the people that we work with at Kikino and, Eric Dalton, may he rest in peace. I wanted to mention him today we just lost him and so I want to say, gosh, I'm trying not to cry. I want to say how important he was to our industry and I didn't know I was going to, I was going to react like this. I'm just passionate about our industry and I'm really happy when someone [00:23:00] like him changes our. Frequency,  Marni Matyus: He really did. His work has been pivotal in my practice, especially in the early years. And he's a great, I'm grateful that he's left such a legacy, with his institute and his coursework that'll go on forever.  Remembering Eric DaltonJulie Alexander: . our listeners if you're still listening and, go out there and look at Eric Dalton's work on YouTube and catch the fire that he put out into the world. What a great light he had. And we got to carry it, carry on the torch. I mean we, are here on this planet as massage therapists to continue keeping that torch lit. I mean, cause this is the circle of life friends I mean. Gosh, if you're out there listening to this podcast and wondering how I'm going to be in the next Eric Dalton, I mean, there's a spot open, like continue [00:24:00] practicing, continue working your way up the tracks, continue having hands on bodies. Continue learning, keeping your mind open and malleable and pliable for news information. All right.  Upcoming Somatic Bodywork ClassJulie Alexander: So we talked about the intro to somatic body work, and it's going to be at Handcrafted Therapy at Parker and 75 in Plano, Texas. on May 25th. We're just, I'm really excited about these classes and I hope that if you're listening out there and you're not real sure about emotional body work, not real sure about like what happens if you trigger something that makes a client cry and you

don't know what to do about it, this is a great class to take for that. I mean, We're all in a state of, I don't know what to do with this person most of the time, right? Right.  The Importance of Emotional BodyworkJulie Alexander: I mean, and [00:25:00] what a, valuable resource to have in knowing what to do when a client is their most vulnerable and their most, fragile in your arms. Literally, just. A weak little bird looking for a safe, trusting therapist. and what a blessing it is when people actually trust you and give you their emotional heart by the tears that they cry I mean, what a gift we have. All right. You have  Marni Matyus: to be that safe space.  Julie Alexander: Yes. And, I mean, you mentioned this earlier, and I think it's worth mentioning again, which is. Not being judgmental we're all human beings and we sometimes forget to drink all the water we, we forget to, do all the things that we're supposed to do as humans.  Marni Matyus: I think for many of us, [00:26:00] we're really hard on ourselves for the thing. We might be able to forgive somebody else, but it's hard to forgive ourselves. You know what I mean? I talked to people that have had abortions that have cheated on their husbands, that have, they feel guilty because their child is. And it's really helpful to be able to hold that space and to help them learn to forgive themselves. And I think as a therapist, the most important thing I can do is to not be judgmental. People do what they do for reasons that I don't understand, but we've all done things that we regret or we resent or we feel ashamed of and being able to just like, allow them to really be. And to recognize that and finally release it is really a gift.  Julie Alexander: Well, how special. I mean, you're teaching people how to be a friend, honestly, how to have a heart and show empathy to someone else.[00:27:00]  And I just think we need to do that more often in our world. Amen. Okay, the next class. Thank you Introduction to myofascial work, and that will be in September.  Marni Matyus: I am so excited about that. Like I've talked to you before, my approach to fascial work is to stay under the pain threshold, to work at a pace and at a depth that clients can stay present. They can actually feel what's happening in their body and my approach to that allows for that full body fascial release as well as the emotional release and I'm super excited about this class. Typically, the way I approach it is this most gentle fascial release 5 grams of pressure. The same, the weight of a nickel, the amount of pressure that you would put on your eyeball if you were to poke at it and then something magic happens when the therapist is focused and focused on that [00:28:00] place where they're working and the client also brings their attention to it. There is like an energy or a vibration. And that's when we start to feel these releases all throughout the body. I might be working on the spine and start to feel releases all the way into the legs and feet or up into the cranium. And it takes a little while to get that level of intuition. But just knowing that When you're there and the clients there, we teach them how to stay focused and present and open and listening that these miraculous unwinds occur. And then I've, scheduled this to be a two day class this time so that we can go a little deeper and also include some of the heavier handed fascial releases because we can use any pressure. From the lightest touch, this barely touching the skin all the way down to the bone, but the idea is the same to stay under the pain threshold, [00:29:00] stay focused and present and to invite those full body unwinds. So I'm really excited about that one. And if you take the introduction to somatic body work, then the myofascial class will give you some more tools to really hold space and encourage those somatic releases.  Julie Alexander: I'm excited about this too. I mean we cover a little bit of myofascial work in regular massage school. I think a lot of people may come out of massage school with some knowledge on at least what fascia tissue is. But I'm assuming with this class, you're going to know what fascial what, fascial tissue is and what myofascial work is and what how it benefits. What what it can do for your client. So that's awesome. That's awesome. Cause in massage school, you focus on muscles [00:30:00] usually. I mean, that's a general generality statement, right? Of cause most massage schools are all different, but a lot of people will come out of massage school with some basic, at least some basic fascia. knowledge. So yeah, two days, September 13th and 14th from nine to one, we will be at Handcrafted Therapy doing some myofascial work and we hope that you guys can join us with that class.  Pelvis Alignment TechniquesJulie Alexander: the next class we want to talk about is a pelvis class and I'm really excited to hear Marnie's description of this class because She's described it to me two or three times and it just, it makes me excited to think about other therapists out there working from the hips. From the pelvis out. So go ahead and describe it before I mess it up. [00:31:00]  Marni Matyus: I would say that the hardest part of the class is understanding the different the 3d model of the pelvis. So, if the. One ileum is rotated forward, then it's going to have the effect of shortening that leg. So now that people are walking around with a functional leg length discrepancy and the spine will be twisted and curved to compensate, the head will be tilted, the eyes will be tilted, the cranial bones, the sphenoid will be tilted. So in almost every session, one of the first things I do is to assess the pelvis. When it's out of alignment, everything is out of alignment and we have the tools as body workers, as massage therapists to encourage the pelvis to go back into alignment. You don't need high velocity adjustments. You don't need to tug on the leg. It's I have a

2 or 3 different techniques to put the [00:32:00] pelvis back into alignment. And when I've had sacroiliac pain, these techniques are pain. It's immediate pain relief. Now you still have to go in and fix the muscles and the contributing factors, but just to release that gnarly joint of the sacrum and the ilium is profound. So these are techniques from the osteopathic world. One of them was developed by A. T. Still, the founder of Osteopathy. They're very quick, very gentle. In fact, to make this class work, we are inviting members of the public, which can be other massage therapists. They can be your clients, your students, your family members, random people off the street. Almost everybody will have some kind of hip imbalance. And by the time I get finished teaching the first half of the class, everybody's been fixed. The the technique only takes a couple of minutes. So we'll invite people from the public to come in [00:33:00] and practice on them, realign their pelvis. And then we'll talk about what kind of things you might do after that. What muscle groups you might want to address, but really the focus of this class is just to balance the pelvis. And then we'll talk about some corrective, very simple exercises that you can do at home to stabilize your pelvis. I'll tell you all the funny stories about me getting my pelvis out of alignment and trying to fix it. And it's been a journey, but these, this is simple techniques that you can use with anybody.  Julie Alexander: That's exciting. I love it. I can't wait. I mean, I'll be fine. I can see where like problems with the low back pain and so as, and, sciatic problems, I mean, can all be fixed with working on the pelvis. Marni Matyus: I think it's a critical part of it, right?  Julie Alexander: Yeah. If we  Marni Matyus: don't address it, we're leaving that imbalance and I would love to teach this class [00:34:00] for chiropractors.  Julie Alexander: Yeah. Well, let's call all the chiropractors in and, talk to them. Take this class from Marnie. She's got,  Marni Matyus: no, it's really, simple. It's, kind of frustrating to me when people will come for their chiropractor. I'm like, but your pelvis is still out of alignment. Yep. No judgment. We all have our specialty in our, toolbox, but it's. It's really, it's a cool, some cool, easy techniques to add.  Julie Alexander: Well, it would be totally, it would be really helpful if our, clients came from chiropractors that And a lot of them were  Marni Matyus: excellent practitioners. Julie Alexander: Absolutely. Absolutely. But like, there's a few things that I think if, we kind of shared information a little better we, I think I would be willing to learn from chiropractors as well if [00:35:00] the other side of that street. So.  Marni Matyus: Yeah. Don't get me on. I have a whole dream about having a new medical model where we collaborate and work together and teach each other rather than living in our silos. Julie Alexander: I mean, maybe one day

it would be so awesome if we had like a chiropractor to work with, like literally in the room with us as a massage therapist. One thing that I've noticed in my work is that I have the luxury of time on my side because I have clients that are there for an hour or more. And I might feel exactly when they're ready to have that adjustment, but it's not, I'm not doing that because it's beyond my scope of practice. But wouldn't it be great if I could just grab a chiropractor and say, okay, she's ready to roll, right? She's in the right spot and [00:36:00] she's ready to be adjusted. I mean, I just feel like we're not utilizing that skill as best we can for our patients. If anyway, someday, our dreams will come true, Marnie. The pelvis class is in October, 26th, and it's a one day class. And I think it's really cool to start at the pelvis and then move your way out. Cause I mean, it seems like it's the middle of our body, basically. It seems like a smart thing to do. The, myofascial class is in September, the 13th and 14th. Cervical Spine Class OverviewJulie Alexander: it will be a prerequisite for the November class, which will be the cervical spine class. Which I think we all can agree is probably the most important part of this, but absolutely everything's important. But, cervical [00:37:00] spine, people love us to work on that. Let's talk about that class.  Marni Matyus: That feels like the pinnacle of my life's work, Julie. I got into massage therapy because I had chronic neck pain, and I went to an osteopath who would help me with gentle releases, a little bit of fascial work, and some muscle relaxers, and I would go back to my corporate job. And I'd be good for a month or so. And then I'd go back to her and get it adjusted again. And when I got ready to change careers, I wanted to be her, but I was 40 years old with a degree in finance.  Julie Alexander: You're a long way off.  Marni Matyus: She actually suggested that I go to massage school. And I thought she was crazy until she explained that I can do most of the body work that she does as a massage therapist. So without doing high velocity adjustments, I have made my career about, releasing the fascial [00:38:00] restrictions and using gentle techniques like muscle energy techniques, which uses your own muscles to, release the vertebrae all is like all of the techniques that I have are so that I can get that person's neck moving comfortably out of pain and I don't send people to chiropractors. I don't need to, I don't do high velocity adjustments ever. Sometimes I will turn somebody's head into a position that a chiropractor would, and every time I tell them, I'm not gonna crack your neck, just let me just trust me.  And we'll turn it to that position and have them do a little resistance movement. And sometimes they'll act, they'll feel a crack as they move around, but that's the body. Just naturally moving and creaking and cracking. I never. Do never do anything sharp or fast. It's always slow, mindful and respectful to the body and incorporating that [00:39:00] with the myofascial techniques. I'm able to get some really significant relief for clients. I went to a chiropractic conference. One day by accident, and they were showing a video that shows what happens when the occipital and the atlanteal joints are not moving properly. It restricts the movement of the cerebral spinal fluid, and the cerebral spinal fluid just kind of rotates in those, what do you call them? Sinuses inside the cranium and creates like anxiety symptoms. blew me away to see what happens in this chaotic function of the cerebral spinal fluid when this cervical spines not moving properly. So that just reinforced how important it is above and beyond regular pain management. So I take all the techniques that I've ever learned. Most of them, the fascial work, the muscle energy techniques that I learned from an [00:40:00] osteopath and learning to feel, learning to have a dialogue. With this, with the vertebrae and, that's all, of these techniques are mine. So early in my career, I would learn something and then teach it the way I was taught it. It took me a long time to offer this class because it's all mine. So I'm excited about it.  Julie Alexander: That's exciting. I'm happy to be a part of that for you. I, want it to be successful. I hope that, Our listenership have, found something in our list that excites them and they want to learn more, even if it's not Marnie's class if you're in California or New Zealand or, wherever you're at, pick up a book, go to YouTube, learn something today, new, please, and make the world a better place, right? Marni Matyus: There is always more to learn in our field, Julie. It's  Julie Alexander: so exciting. I mean, you're never going to get bored as a [00:41:00] therapist. And if you do it's your own fault, cause there's so much to learn in, the healthcare industry in general I mean, you can sprout out into any field. You can, go down sports, gosh, there's just so many options and the world is your oyster. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for hosting me today, Julie. Yeah, of course. I'm so happy that you joined us today and you shared your knowledge. Okay. Well, please join us at Handicrafted Therapy for Marnie's Continuing Education Classes 2025. We're really excited about it, and we look forward to having you this year, teaching TMJ. I'm going to go through them one more time. The TMJ class, TMJ Disorder class, is April 27th. These are all on Sunday. April 27th from 10am to 5pm. Intro to Somatic [00:42:00] Bodywork is Sunday, May 25th from 10 to 5. They entered a myofascial work is the two day class, September 13th and 14th from nine to one pelvis class, October 26th from 10 to five and cervical spine class, November 9th. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, November 9th. The prerequisite for this class is the myofascial work. And November 9th, it's 10 to five for the cervical spine. So, Yeah, Marty's an incredible

instructor. And I think if you haven't taken her class, misjustice, an injustice, did you mention  Marni Matyus: Kikino? Yes, please.  Kikino Massage School and Continuing EducationMarni Matyus: Kikino is a massage school and clinic where I work in the master clinic and the types of classes. Especially the somatic body work is something that we're holding space for, even from the [00:43:00] beginning with our students. So there's something really unique about what's happening at that massage school, as far as from the beginning. We help our students to learn to do their inner work and to hold space for those. And I'm just really excited to be a part of that organization and because of the way that we're focusing our advanced training, we have a whole six months, I believe, a training program after graduation where we mentor and train students and some of these advanced modalities. We've chosen to move all of our content one day continuing education courses to handcrafted. So if I could speak for Kikino, I would really like to say how much we appreciate Julie for holding space and having this beautiful education facility. I think it's really going to be a win for both of us and I'm excited to be able to work with you To do to offer these [00:44:00] kind of classes to the public. So thank you for creating this with us Julie. Thanks,  Julie Alexander: Marnie Thank you. I am so blessed to have what such a wonderful relationship with the Massage School Kikino and Plano If you're not a therapist yet and haven't gone to school, that's Definitely this school. I would choose if I was redoing this whole life thing, I would go to Kikino for sure. There's, just go to massage school if you don't know what you want to be when you grow up and you have a little bit of empathy in life and you might have a little bit of a, natural ability to massage people, I think you should go to massage school and go to Bikino. We need more therapists. There  Marni Matyus: is so much ability to, work with people and help people and, it's, six months, it's easier than my business degree. Yeah.  Julie Alexander: much easier than it  Marni Matyus: did .  Julie Alexander: It's so much more fulfilling. [00:45:00] It's so much more fulfilling. And one thing that I love about Kaino is that, it's not like you're just gonna go to school and then never see them again. You go to school and they help you find a job. And if you have questions about your career, you can come back and go, I don't know what I'm doing. What do I, how do I navigate this world of massage therapy? You guys have such a great team of people to, to help navigate that. I  Marni Matyus: think it's  Julie Alexander: awesome. Marni Matyus: I'm so grateful for John James creating that space. I call it a laboratory for personal growth. And yeah, it's, a lot. It's a lot for him to hold all of that. And he is so committed to helping therapists to be successful in business, in their personal lives, in their practice. Like, that's what this postgraduate You know, [00:46:00] internship that he's offering is about is really making therapists successful because it's a hard industry to get started in if you don't have those, that skillset. So I'm just so grateful that he's created that for us to be a part of.  Julie Alexander: I agree.  Final Thoughts and GratitudeJulie Alexander: Marnie is part of you like piss that this didn't exist when we were graduating. I mean I hear my, parents say that about stuff all the time. Like, Oh, you kids have it easy. You have this and you have that. And now I'm saying that because this bridge program is. Pretty awesome. And I really wish that it was available to us 15 years ago. So if you're listening and you're a new therapist in Dallas or Plano area, and you're thinking you want maybe a master's level program in massage therapy. I would really highly recommend reaching out to Kikino. [00:47:00] I'm sure, I know Amy Miller is the director. She'll be able to help you and answer any questions you have about that program. So, thanks for bringing that up. Thank you, Julie. Okay, well, thank you, Marnie. Thank you, Julie.  Thank you so much for joining me on the handcrafted therapy podcast. I would love to hear from you. You can email us at podcast at handcrafted therapy. com, or you can come by the store. It's at 3303 North central expressway, suite number two 40 in Plano, Texas, 75023. Or you can connect with me on social Instagram, Facebook, hashtag can practice therapy. I'm Julie Alexander, and I wish you a very happy and healthy day.