บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ BPS 340: Oscar® Winner Russell Carpenter A.S.C. - Shooting Blockbusters, Avatar, Titanic & James Cameron

constantly rerunning into anybody you ever met. You're right, Absolutely everybody 57 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.399 in the business kind of walks in there and you're they're walking around like crazy. 58 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.720 No, So I wanted to ask you this first start off, at 59 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:44.000 the very beginning, when you were born no, I'm joking. When how 60 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.519 did you get into the film industry in the first place? Right? What 61 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:53.720 made you want to become a cinematographer? At first, it was just playing 62 00:04:53.879 --> 00:05:00.360 something to do with my friends. I grew up in the Orange County area, 63 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.040 that the deepest, darkest, very Republican Orange County. This was about 64 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:08.680 two nice ages ago. So we were when we were playing, we were 65 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.240 we were working with super super eight millimeter cameras and it was just us dumb 66 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.959 things to do to keep ourselves occupied. With my friend's eye and in fact, 67 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:25.759 I uh uh. My sister Maureen, who was the sanest of the 68 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:30.839 four as children, uh for raising these ugly animals wouldn't say that, called 69 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:36.120 chuck their desert lizards to me. And they looked like road killed when they're 70 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:44.680 alive. God, and but there, because I grew up watching things like 71 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.720 the original King Kong over and over and over again because it was on the 72 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:56.480 local station so much, we decided we would make a monster movie. So 73 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.040 we tied. We took one of her lizards called a Chuck Waller, and 74 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.399 incidentally, my my best friend in the world with its named Chuck Waller. 75 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:13.240 That's hilarious and uh so we tied strings to the lizard, I mean the 76 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.360 thread to the lizard, put plastic I mean paper paper wings on the lizard, 77 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:24.319 and fluent endlessly back and forth in front of a landscape painting. That 78 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:28.040 was our That was our first movie called It came from the pet shop, 79 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.240 okay, and we worked, we worked our way up from there. So, 80 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:36.199 uh, I was afraid at the time. I eventually got out of 81 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:45.519 high school, dodge tracked by doing a v TV the audio visual television kind 82 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:50.480 of stuff. And I at that time, you know, I didn't have 83 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:56.120 the money to go to uh you know what, uh USC or U c 84 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:01.399 l A. And I was terrified of those places. They were right, 85 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:06.040 I mean, with God by me when I went to instead went to San 86 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:13.160 Diego State, the state college. San Diego State College at the time became 87 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:18.439 San Diego State University, and I had the supreme luck to get a job 88 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:26.600 at a at a public television station, very slow one, and that's where 89 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:30.600 I really actually got to work with a sixteen millimeter film and they made every 90 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:33.279 mistake in the world. But at least, you know, I learned these 91 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:42.920 mistakes by doing and it really gave me an opportunity to instead of just learn 92 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:47.240 about it, learn about film in the classroom, learned about it by just 93 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:54.800 going out there and doing it. And I stayed in. I did that 94 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:59.279 for a while until I was offering a job there. I quickly discovered that 95 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:05.279 I really I had a trouble just going every day the same job and sitting 96 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.720 in a little desk, and I couldn't do it, So, okay, 97 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:15.279 I quit. I went to Hawaii for a while. I lived on uh 98 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:22.600 tuna, fish and peanut butter best best served together. I found out and 99 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.920 slept on beaches and I was I was on a beach the north end of 100 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:35.200 Hawaii at Kalalau Valley, and one morning I woke up and there were these 101 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.240 helicopters was setting in from the sky and they were landing on the beach around 102 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:46.240 me. And these guys got out wearing T shirts shorts, and they had 103 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:50.440 these cases and they said Panavision on the side of it. You know, 104 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.039 this was out of the middle of nowhere. And it turned out that they 105 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:58.000 were there to film the the the gosh, what year was Hawaii? Is 106 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.320 this not Hawaii? O? No, it was not. It was the 107 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:11.480 Jessica Lang Kong And I stayed I watched this happen and it just kind of 108 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.080 it was literally a side of in the heavens, and maybe I should get 109 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:20.960 back and get back to California and do something. And I got a job 110 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.919 at another public television station, and after working there for a couple of years, 111 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:33.519 hooked up with a director, Tom Everheart, who we were both tired 112 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:39.960 of edifying people, and he wanted to make a low budget horror picture. 113 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:48.159 So he convinced this, I would guess call it an oppose burtisuer Czar. 114 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.480 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to 115 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:07.799 the show to fund our little

movie. If this fellow's life could be like 116 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:15.399 the most prominent zombie in the movie, obviously obviously and uh uh we we 117 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.039 had to have a plane crash or the remnants of a plane crash in the 118 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:28.600 in the movie. So we we almost burned down somebody's backyard reading that, 119 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:37.519 and uh and and then miraculously this little movie was uh was released, you 120 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.000 know, not like for like four days or something like sure. Sure, 121 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.080 that gave me false hope. And I I'm not far but moved north to 122 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:52.759 l A. And uh and that's where the I would call it the starvation 123 00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:00.600 started. But I think my false hope was just that false hope. And 124 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:05.440 uh and I I was afraid. My problem was I was just afraid to 125 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.000 make phone calls just were just people. And I realized that there are lots 126 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.360 of other people had had. Well. At that time, we had sixteen 127 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:20.440 millimeters demo reels that we had to you know, shure to show to people 128 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.399 and we would just you know, put them in their hands and then we 129 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.399 would wait for two to three weeks it would take them to actually look at 130 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.919 the reel, right, and it was it was a good experience for me. 131 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:39.600 I uh, I just learned that not to be so afraid. I 132 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:45.960 was still more defied. Eventually, what happened was that friends of mine that 133 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.480 I've been working with the documentaries and working and they moved up to LA and 134 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:54.120 they were starting to do things and they would get me in on interviews with 135 00:11:54.320 --> 00:12:00.480 things. And from there it was really uh uh, you know, well, 136 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:07.679 I would call it it was like a lightning fast fifteen years overnight success. 137 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.919 Yeah, overnight success. Fifteen years of you know, just waiting and 138 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:16.799 waiting and waiting for the for the very next thing that came in. But 139 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:22.200 in the meantime when I was real I was I at that time. Again, 140 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.480 it was like VHS tapes or video tapes that I would watch the work 141 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:31.159 of cinematographers that I really admired, and I watched these things backwards and quarrowers 142 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.799 backwards and quarwards and and learn learn from that. That was kind of how 143 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.879 I learned. Plus the little time I would have on the on the set, 144 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:48.759 and I was starting to do the dramatic form stoff if you call it 145 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:56.200 that, because it wasn't really dramatic. It was kind of shlock, right, 146 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.080 let's just call up like it was, sure, but it got more 147 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:07.039 on a set, and that was the best experience I could have. And 148 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.000 I just moved from zero budget to no budget to you know, slightly you 149 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.759 budget movies, and it was very much harder to get into the Union. 150 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:22.279 So I just it just doing this as I worked my way along. So 151 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.879 basically you were just grinding it for fifteen or twenty years until you started really 152 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.279 getting some momentum build up for yourself. Yeah, And I would say, 153 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:39.759 I mean to people who are who are in the same position, I just 154 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:46.159 said, if there was one thing besides learning as I went and really going 155 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:52.240 to as many seminars as I could and all that. For me, it 156 00:13:52.919 --> 00:14:01.240 became just a matter of resistence. And in one way it was miserable but 157 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.120 I'm waiting. But in the other way, I did have anything else I 158 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.440 knew how to do, so I kind of had to stick with this, 159 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:13.480 you know, even when it just seemed like rimmerling grim and so so I 160 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.519 but eventually I got to a point where I said, I think I can 161 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:28.080 make a living at least doing the the independent films. And the other thing 162 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.080 that happened was that sometimes things would happen that were like sheer seemed like sheer 163 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.360 disaster, you know, and they actually led to something where to a break 164 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:46.320 like for instance, I did four episodes of The Wonder years before I was 165 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:52.159 fired. And okay, why were we fired? Well, a couple of 166 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.840 reasons. One I would walk, you know, with that I would walk 167 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.039 into somebody's office so they say, oh, Russell, you know I I 168 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:01.879 want to talk to you about one thing. You know, the dailies, 169 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:09.480 you know that the film it's it's just too bright. You've got to darken 170 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.799 it down. This we don't want this to play gets purely broad comedy. 171 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.639 And I, you know, I'm thinking, wow, that's not the way 172 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:20.039 they lit it. I don't know quite know what they're talking about. Then 173 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:26.279 and then literally like ten minutes later, somebody said, hey, Russell, 174 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.879 I will want to talk

to you about something. They take me into the 175 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.440 room, the room and look, I looked at their TV sent and they 176 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:37.039 say this, this is this is the wonder year. It's supposed to be 177 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.120 brighter. You're lighting it too dark. And I mean, oh my god. 178 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.720 And I'm just saying, oh, I don't think I'm long for this 179 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.200 this job. And also at that time, and I didn't really understand it 180 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:58.799 that well. The people ran the show. It's called showrunners. They they 181 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.840 really wanted the DP to try to tell the director what to do, because 182 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:10.480 the directors would come in and they were at that time TV I like TV 183 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:14.080 traffic cops. And the person who really ran the show was the showrunner. 184 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:21.879 And and I was coming from the space of the director's the boss. I 185 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:26.879 want whoever he or she is, I'm serving that person. And that and 186 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:32.279 that didn't really kind of for that show made me the wrong for a person 187 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:36.679 for the job. So I got I got fired from that. I didn't 188 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:42.519 know what to do. I was, you know, I was doing in 189 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:48.679 between. I was doing like these odd job things for They had this thing 190 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:56.320 called man Like. It was a temporary employment agency pulled manpower and that was 191 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.039 and and I would do jobs like one of the worst jobs I ever had. 192 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:06.359 But it wasn't lightening. Was was I worked. I lasted half a 193 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.599 day. I worked at this place. It was like this, Mom and 194 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:21.640 pop a vegetable liquid, vegetable vitamins for your plants. Okay. It sat 195 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.400 with about twenty other people in a room and we went by hand. We 196 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.440 put labels on these Oh I'm like, oh gee. A guy who would 197 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.640 walk around and tell us yeah, no, no, that's down a little 198 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.920 to the right, you know, or speeded up or whatever. And it 199 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:42.000 was the most mindless thing. And I asked the guy next to me, 200 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.079 he said, how long have you been here? And he said five years? 201 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:52.559 Oh my god. And that was epiphany. And the epiphany was wow, 202 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:57.519 you know, there were probably millions of people in the world who have 203 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:06.880 job and and however miserable time. At least I have a job. At 204 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.160 least when I'm doing it, I really love it, you know, And 205 00:18:12.599 -->

00:18:18.759 it just made me I don't know, it didn't really get me over anything 206 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:25.119 except at least having appreciation for the for the job, for the job. 207 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:32.480 And but what happened was I did like after that show I had was really 208 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.759 running out of money. I took it, so I was trying to get 209 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:41.079 out of doing I was doing a lot of I know, the year Z 210 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.160 level horror movies. That's something I really didn't want to do. It was 211 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:52.559 petitary too, and it was but I had the greatest time when the people 212 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.559 were great, the director was great. And one of the people who was 213 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:03.079 in that was Eddie Furlong and he had just he had just not too long 214 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:08.720 ago done Terminator too, and yeah, he was very young and so and 215 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.559 the people who were kind of his on sake Gertie and said, oh, 216 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:18.160 you know, there's something about you get along really well with Jim Cameron. 217 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.200 So before we get to Jim, because I have a bunch of questions about 218 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.359 Titanic and your relationship with Jim, I want to take you back a little 219 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.559 bit too, one of your first films, and I'm just dying to hear 220 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.200 what experience was like and what lessons you learned from shooting Critters to the main 221 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:41.279 course, Uh, well, let's see what I heard, because I mean, 222 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.160 that's the thing that a lot of people only see the oscar. They 223 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.319 only see not from you, but generally when they see someone successful in the 224 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.920 business, they only see the end result of twenty thirty years of grind. 225 00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:02.680 Will be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the 226 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.160 show. Uh yeah, and I I I That's what I have to say, 227 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.680 is that for all of that, I mean, they're either there are 228 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:18.400 a few cinematographers in the business who seem to you know, like rise out 229 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:26.759 out of the depths of the ocean, I mean fourth own cinematographers, right, 230 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.519 uh, you know, and the Irish convinced you are or or Chievo 231 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.680 o Chieva, yeah, Chievo or Ville Mos or one of these guys films. 232 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.319 So you go, oh my god, they're fully formed, you know, 233 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.799 and they're they're like fourteen years old. They're shooting, you know, 234 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:48.160 these these masters, he says. And I'm and why am I still on 235 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.279 the bunny slopes of life? You know, just you know, briand in 236 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.519 and out. You know, that's scooting alone. I don't know how the 237 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:03.000 world works, but I do know that if you keep putting out the energy 238 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:11.920 eventually, I mean, thing things, things happen, and I I I 239 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:17.240 had a great time with with Critters too, and I and and you're just 240 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:22.240 trying to you know, even though even though you're looking at your heroes and 241 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.440 and at that time I was looking at people like Victoria Gerrarro when I and 242 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:37.480 I'm shooting Critters too, And yet something from from my hero that I can 243 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:44.000 apply to this an additor or trying to make the light a little more interesting. 244 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:55.720 And uh so, each each thing that you do is somehow putting a 245 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.039 part of your personal camera together, because we are I'll talk about the gear 246 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:07.119 and stuff like that, but the real gear is the real camera, is 247 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.359 the camera inside the one that you're putting together, that that you'll be putting 248 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:18.039 together for your whole life. Is that And and anytime you get on the 249 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:25.640 set on anything, it's just just the most excellent opportunity to not only develop 250 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:30.359 the vision, but to learn how to develop the vision while things are falling 251 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:36.519 apart, because in a way, on film sets, they always are because 252 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.160 there's usually never enough time. Uh there's usually I wouldn't call it the daily 253 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:48.839 emergency, but but a lot of things just don't happen the way you imagine 254 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.200 they might, especially when you're starting out, because people that you're working with 255 00:22:52.240 --> 00:23:00.359 are have usually have about the same experience level that when Wood as a young 256 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:08.799 cinematographer. So, uh, I would just take these these little things that 257 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.640 I could do, and maybe it certainly wasn't every shot, but I would 258 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.039 say, Okay, at the end of the day, I could say, 259 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.480 oh, but I did some terrific stuff with that shot or that shot and 260 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:30.519 that shot and and uh so it was It was never a situation where oh, 261 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.240 I felt that I'm a good good enough to wait for a script. 262 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.640 That was not the idea. That idea never happened. It was I've got 263 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:42.240 to eat, you know, I've got to pay the mortgage. What

gave 264 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:47.519 you to get experience? And I think that that was one of the best 265 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:52.480 uh uh. A person that I know who worked in a lab he said, 266 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.599 you just said do everything you can do, you know, just do 267 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:02.680 every everything you can do. And that turned out the the way that that 268 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.759 worked for me and people I have and I have talked to cinematographers. No, 269 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:14.000 I will wait until I have a script that I think was worthy of 270 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.559 being of shooting, and that worked that worked for them. That I the 271 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.240 I just I picked the path that I needed to pay out of necessity basically. 272 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.240 Now, you so during that time, during the time, you were 273 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.519 doing a lot of horror movies like Nightmare before Nabaron, Elm Street and the 274 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.680 legendary puppet Master, which was one of my favorite. I loved. That 275 00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:40.680 must have been such fun shooting puppet Master. Well, I that I only 276 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:47.440 did I did, uh like additional sure, additional stuff photography At that time. 277 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.759 I would do anything that I could work it on Nightmare and Elm Street. 278 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.799 That I mean, those those stuff were actually a lot. They were 279 00:24:55.960 --> 00:25:00.599 really a lot of foot and they were done in basically warehouse us out in 280 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:06.960 the Santa Clarita Valley kind of they say, lay off the grid and they 281 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:11.559 were at gosh, I figure up what years there was this question? Have 282 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.519 been the eighty years? Oh that was eighty nine. Yeah, it was 283 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:22.000 again it was much much harder. Uh. Well, let's just say the 284 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.519 Union has really changed, uh a lot. And now now I see the 285 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:34.480 Union as as as much we're realistic in terms of uh, their their educational 286 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:41.000 programs and it's not like it's it's not kind of like life and death just 287 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.960 to get into the union. But at that time, it was it was, 288 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.960 it was tougher. So those of us we needed a place to paint, 289 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:55.440 to do something. We were we were that was what we worked on, 290 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.240 things like the new line, the company that did not cary. Now 291 00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:04.119 we were a relatively new uh company, and this this was a place that 292 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.839 we could work. And then we also you know, and I also met 293 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:15.599 other other cinematographers and filmmakers who I've known forever. My I uh by gaffer 294 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:21.920 Leon Levin. We we met in the in the eighties and on we've been 295 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:26.200 working part it up together ever since. So that's a long that's a long 296 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.039 relationship now. And then you also during that time you started getting some more 297 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.279 action work, and you actually worked on some of my favorite action movies of 298 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:40.440 the late eighties and early nineties, like the classic Death Warrant by John clavondm 299 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.160 uh per perfect perfect weapon, our target. Yeah. When when I when 300 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.960 I look back on the tarp in your open here, uh, that's where 301 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:55.519 we'll be right right up there. Because you never had uh more than three 302 00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:02.680 word sentences. Can they started to say, you know, yeah, it 303 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:08.519 was action, it was action. Yeah, And the have it and about 304 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:14.799 as mindless as they come. But you know again, I you're working. 305 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:19.440 And that was the thing that one is one thing leading to another. The 306 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:29.799 director of Death word uh oh. Just like on Darien's Ring, his father, 307 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.599 his father was going to do with this film, a Japanese sci fi 308 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.960 movie that had at the time that phenomenal budget. I think of fifty five 309 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.000 million bucks I have. I'm looking at it right now. It's a monster 310 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.599 budget for its day. It was Solar Crisis, right it was that called 311 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:51.039 Solar Crisis, and and it turned out to be an unwatchable movie. But 312 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.400 I did good work on that. I was really happy with what I did. 313 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:59.240 And so I went back and I collected bits and pieces. I got 314 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:03.640 this and that, and then I went in and I basically retimed the thing 315 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:08.559 myself that uses my show reel. So here I have my whatever it is, 316 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:14.200 Okay, let's say fifty five million dollars show reel show. And I 317 00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:18.279 didn't know what to do with it, but so I had that I had 318 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.039 something to show. And as you go along, you just have to because 319 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:27.279 because as a cinematographer, you can be the potential cinematographer that you want to 320 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:33.279 be, but you have to show people that you are, in fact, 321 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:40.440 validly a real cinematographer. So that's why it's even if something that you do 322 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:47.960 is the acting's bad or this or that stories, but somehow you can cobble 323 00:28:48.000

--> 00:28:52.880 it together skillfully, either yourself or whether you get the help of an editor, 324 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.559 and you can use that to show people. But showing people something that 325 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:06.160 you've done is that's absolutely pyramidical that you have that. So yeah, I 326 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.119 would. Yeah. Now, as far as there was one movie in that 327 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.680 time period in the early nineties, Hard Target, which was a big deal 328 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:19.039 back in the day because it was John Wu's first American film. What was 329 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.480 it like working with John and how did that that change? Because I know 330 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.680 he was used to live I mean, I think Hard Boiled and The Killer 331 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.599 they shot in like two hundred and fifty days or something like he just sat 332 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.319 and just shot. You didn't have that on Hard Target? How was that 333 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:40.480 that relationship to work with that on that movie that it was amazing? But 334 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:47.880 when John is one of the nicest people you could ever meet, and you 335 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:56.519 do We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back 336 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:03.799 to the show. How is it that this guy is shooting the most violent 337 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:11.240 movies ever. That are are our guests there. They're clever, they're very 338 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:18.160 but you know there's a lot of blood lying around and and and dove doves, 339 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.799 doves stuffs. Yeah, of course we even, Yeah, we had 340 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:30.559 our obligatory jobs. Yes you did. And ye uh it was. I 341 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:38.079 know. It's hard on John in the sense that in a in America, 342 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:42.440 he said, and he said this to me after the film, he says, 343 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:48.000 one thing I've learned is that in America, celebrity is everything. So 344 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:52.799 he said, celebrities and at that time, you know, John claud he 345 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:59.039 was huge, He was huge. And he said, and therefore they have 346 00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:03.640 they have a lot more or input, not only into how things are shot 347 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.640 sometimes, but especially how things are cut afterwards. And and he said, 348 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:15.519 he said that that was probably one of the reasons he eventually went back and 349 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:19.200 did some of these really great films back in China was that he was not 350 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:29.160 used to dealing with the political culture in Hollywood, and he was not used 351 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:37.400 to I mean, really being the god on the set. Not that I'm 352 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:44.680 not saying that in an egotistic saying

it in the sense that it's the vision 353 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:52.680 record vision, and he said, if he wanted to do a big action 354 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:59.119 scene with you know, amazing action, he literally have hundreds of people who 355 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:05.960 would want to do this crazy ass stop that would be very hard pull off 356 00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:15.640 in the United States given the regulations that they they have. But the experience 357 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.160 of working with him was great, but also learning that the way that he 358 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:24.720 shot was very different in terms of how action his states in the United States. 359 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.279 In the United States, you'll take your action, and you'll take your 360 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.920 moments, and you'll shoot in pieces at this piece and here, and then 361 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.440 we moved this piece, and it doesn't necessarily have to be shot In order. 362 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:45.440 John would arrange his shots action as though it was a kind of a 363 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:52.799 putting all the springs into a fine Swiss watch. Interesting, every little piece 364 00:32:53.079 --> 00:33:01.680 of action would lead to another piece and flow in. And so instead of 365 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:07.599 doing all these little pieces, says he would do, he would make it 366 00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.000 more of a ballet. And it makes sense as a whole. But in 367 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:17.039 order to do that, and this is where it falls on the cinematographer was 368 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:22.039 working with with John, is that you'll want to do it with seven or 369 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.799 eight camera of course, and and how you get the one, how you 370 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:34.759 light for that and and then one how you how it's almost impossible to keep 371 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.599 the other camera out of the shot, but somehow you do it. And 372 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:43.680 so we would do these takes, and we do them once or twice, 373 00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:45.920 and and and he would have it. It might it might take us them, 374 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:51.119 you know, several hours to set these things up. Well, once 375 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.960 it happened, you just go, oh my god, this shot took us 376 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:00.279 to this camera and and he he then he knows that okay, he want 377 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:04.039 me use two thirds of a second of this shot which is going to take 378 00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:08.960 us to the other angle. And that may last three seconds which will take 379 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:13.360 us to the other angle. You know, it was really a name. 380 00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.840 So then basically instead of instead of doing seven or eight different setups, you 381 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:22.519 would work really hard to get everything in one setup, but you basically have 382

00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:25.599 done your done the scene or done that that sequence. Yeah, and it's 383 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:31.679 a it's also it's harder on it to stun people in the actor because you 384 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:39.800 have to make it look like every pit connected mhm. And uh but uh 385 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.320 it these things had an energy though when they will cut together. That was 386 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:52.119 really right. Yeah, So I learned not only a lot about how to 387 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:57.719 choose for multiple cameras, but I also learned something about you know, stage 388 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.679 tune, editing, and and flow. I mean even Hard Target after you 389 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.320 i mean you watch Hard Boil. Do you watch the Killer and then you 390 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.119 watch Hard Target. You can tell he's handcuffed a bit, but but but 391 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:14.480 you can see the wu come out. Yeah. Yeah, you know, 392 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.519 yes, and some of the signature things that that you'd like to do. 393 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:23.079 We certainly you'd certainly did those. But but but then you can also I 394 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:29.840 mean, so here this is a John Yes, but it is. And 395 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.760 then you go back and you look at Hard Boil and they have a lot 396 00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:37.239 I mean, there's a lot more going on than those bills. Yeah, 397 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.719 I mean, they're they're amazing. You know, they're master they're masterpieces of 398 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:47.239 action. I mean yeah, yeah, you go back and look at the 399 00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.000 bird cage scene, the opening of Hard Boiled. Oh my god, so 400 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.440 yeah, just oh my god, where what playing that did this come from? 401 00:35:54.599 --> 00:36:00.639 I mean, it's they're they're really amazing films. Uh. Yeah. 402 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.159 So that was a great experience. So, so you were starting to talk 403 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.800 about how you and mister Cameron got together. You were saying that you met 404 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.559 you worked with Eddie for long after Terminator two, and his people said, 405 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.760 hey, you would work well with Jim. Yeah. At the time, 406 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:22.199 he was Jim wanted to do a he wanted to do an independent film. 407 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:27.280 Yes, a drama, Yeah, that drama that he wanted to do, 408 00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:29.280 A thriller or something like that. He wanted to do. I heard about 409 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.800 that. It's at room This This is a famous film that's never been made 410 00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:38.440 about the life of a person who had like fifteen or six flower personalities. 411 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.920 And it's been around Hollywood for I don't know, he on and somehow it's 412 00:36:45.960

--> 00:36:53.400 never gotten made. But he wanted to do that, and so Eddie's people 413 00:36:53.480 --> 00:37:00.440 and also some other people who knew me, I guess, suggested Jim that 414 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:07.079 he should meet me. I got wet. There was a party at the 415 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.840 end of at the end of that cemetery too, and I think he came 416 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.559 to that. We talked a little while, and I, you know, 417 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.960 I was I probably had the life force at the time, like a of 418 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:29.519 a piece of wood or something personal, you know, just and then it 419 00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:34.239 was weird because because after that I was I was in Louisiana, New Orleans 420 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:39.880 with John Woo because that film well, that film fell apart. But what 421 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:44.679 I did do was I did show my fifty five million dollar sample. Real 422 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.000 amazing, real amazing example real. Yeah, and he liked it, and 423 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:59.039 but the film fell apart that well that's okay, So I didn't you know, 424 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:06.559 I just go back to while doing the John Wuffield and it's really weird. 425 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:10.400 I got this phone call from his producer while I was there, and 426 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:15.639 he said, she said, when you get back to town, I want 427 00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:20.920 you to have lunch with Jim Cameron. He has this project he'd like to 428 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:27.000 talk to you about. So and this is before the internet. So my 429 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:31.039 crew and I start to get every copy of Variety that we can possibly get, 430 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:36.360 and I'm in through of these varieties trying to see what he has because 431 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.960 in my mind, I'm thinking he's got a little documentary or he's got something 432 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:45.079 something little project that he needs to save it. This is and this is 433 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:49.679 the converse. This is that's the phone call that at that point in Hollywood 434 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.440 history and to this point as well, you get that calls like, hey, 435 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:53.880 Jim Cameron wants to meet you about a project. I'm assuming that's a 436 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:58.320 really big deal. Well it was a big deal, but I couldn't put 437 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:02.960 my I couldn't put my own I couldn't put the Russell I knew up to 438 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:09.400 that point in the same room of uh oh, and it's a it's a 439 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:14.559 big feature. So I'm looking through these things and all I can see is, 440 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.199 Oh, he's doing something with Arnold Forest called True Lives. And I 441 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:22.920 go right past that, because of course that's not what we're talking about here. 442 00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:27.679 That couldn't be. But you couldn't even believe that you would be even 443 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.880 up for that situation. Yeah, but when I got back, uh exactly. 444 00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:37.719 And then then when we got back and called called his producer up there, 445 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.199 and lunch was sent up, and again it was surreal. We were 446 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:47.039 near his house in u in Malibu and we're sitting down at Tony's taberno. 447 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.679 Yeah, I guess that's what it was called. We'll be right back after 448 00:39:53.719 --> 00:40:02.440 a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show, and he 449 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:07.360 starts talking about this film and it's it's this, Barno. You know, 450 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:13.719 my head is kind of exploding it. I can't believe he's talking about this 451 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.920 film, right, and this is this is how Jim hires somebody. So 452 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.920 we're you know, so he's starting to talk about the film, and he's 453 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.480 talking about this and it's and like halfway through the conversation he says, he 454 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:30.519 starts using the word we, and it's says, and then when we get 455 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:35.320 to Washington or these kinds of problems, you know, and then after that, 456 00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.920 you got to go there and we've got to be ready to do that. 457 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:42.079 And I'm and I'm sitting there, you know, like a dog. 458 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.960 You know. I can't I can't even understand. I'm looking at him, 459 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.440 but I can't understand. Surreal, completely surreal. It was totally surreal. 460 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.679 And so we have lunch and I leave and I call him my agent and 461 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.320 I say, because by that time I had an agent. I I said, 462 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:04.800 I think I was just hired to do this big picture. And she 463 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.840 called me back two days later and she says, yeah, you knuckle ahead, 464 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:14.039 Yes, you were hired to do the film. And uh. And 465 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.800 then it was that, I guess, of course that opened the gym cameray. 466 00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:27.480 Uh. And it was very interesting because uh, the pre production went 467 00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.679 really really well, uh, you know, and I just felt like, 468 00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:36.519 yuh, of course, I felt like I had a lot to prove and 469 00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:40.599 airing stuff like that, and and then uh, and then we started filming, 470 00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.880 and uh, and that that that went really well too. It was 471 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:50.840 going, oh my god, and uh, just never let this happen yourself, 472 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.760 because this is what I did. I said,

Well, I don't 473 00:41:52.760 --> 00:42:00.159 know what, because I had heard stories about other cinematographers that did work with 474 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:06.440 him, and they weren't good stories. Well, I don't know. Maybe 475 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:15.280 maybe I'm the person who cracked the coons covering so well. And so all 476 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.599 those legendary Jim's Cameron stories, at least on true lies didn't happen. They 477 00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:27.079 didn't have that up until about the fourth weekend. And this story I tell 478 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:31.679 a lot because it's it's it. It has something to do with persiscols, 479 00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:37.159 I guess, and also something to do with the fact that that sometimes you've 480 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:43.239 got to develop his skin, a tough enough skin that you know that you 481 00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:45.599 realize that it's not about you when it because I went out on plenty of 482 00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:50.360 interviews, turned down plenty of times, and you know, you're you're kind 483 00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:52.639 of in the same boat that an actorate is well, and you're going to 484 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.000 meet with a lot of reject it and you just cannot take that person. 485 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.800 Just go back and just keep doing your thing and hoping the next thing covers 486 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:06.079 along and it eventually it will maybe not as fast as he will want it, 487 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:14.400 but there it is. But so we we were he had been watching 488 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:20.840 everything on the on the at that time, on the camera video. Yeah. 489 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.599 And so now we're in a we have a screening one night. It's 490 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:30.960 the first time we're in a theater and the gym's screening room is there are 491 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:37.199 about forty people in there. They're all harving heads and we're doing we're The 492 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:42.360 film starts to roll and we're watching the scene and it's a scene where Arnold 493 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.719 Forrzenegger has has just returned from his first mission that he was up in the 494 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:52.000 snow, and he returns home and he goes over into the room where Jamie 495 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:59.039 Lee Curtis is sleeping, goes over looks at himself in a mirror as he 496 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.719 takes up is ready or you know, or something like that. And so 497 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.199 that shot comes on and it's it's a little dark, and I think, 498 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:12.320 oh, I'm going to have to have them to reprint on this printed up 499 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.639 of people. And all of a sudden I look over at Jim, who's 500 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:21.000 who's sitting beside me, and he's just sitting there shaking his head. I 501 00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:24.519 go, Jim, Jim, what's wrong? And now

he says, loud 502 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:29.920 enough, so you share everybody in the room, he says, he says, 503 00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:37.119 I have the highest paid actor in this or any parallel universe. Won't 504 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:42.440 see his eyes. Kim, Jim, Well, I'll just print it up 505 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.800 three points. I think everything is okay. So no, you print this 506 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.800 scene up three points and you've ruined the mood of the scene. And that 507 00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.719 loud enough for everybody to look here. Oh so, I you know, 508 00:44:54.400 --> 00:45:00.280 from then on, I just want to die because because you wait a couple 509 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:04.360 more minutes, and then he'd says something about, you know, as shot 510 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:08.559 had come up but was maybe a little overexposed, and you see, where 511 00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:15.039 on earth do you learn to read the light theater? Oh woud you know? 512 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:21.519 And and so I endured like three more comments like this, and literally, 513 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.159 before you know, they turned on the lights, and you know, 514 00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.039 but before the light was all the way up, I think I was out 515 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:31.039 of that room. I just ran out, you know, And I was 516 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:34.639 out. I went out to the parking lot. I called my wife and 517 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.519 said, well, you know, I had my run with Jim Cameron, 518 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:42.800 and I'm sure, this was my last day at least were horrible blah blah 519 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:47.079 blah. And I look up and there's the first assistant director and the and 520 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:52.840 then one of the producers and they're just smiling at me and they're laughing at 521 00:45:53.039 --> 00:46:00.559 me, right, and I go, what what? And and they just 522 00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.079 say, you know, he does that to everyone. And I said no 523 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.599 and no, they said, just call you know, they said, we 524 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.480 gave the name of a couple of the other said, is it just called 525 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:15.880 there when listen, you know, talk to them about this. I did. 526 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:21.960 I talked to Michael Solomon had in the ABYSS and he said, well, 527 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.960 did he use the line about, uh, you know, where on 528 00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:30.760 earth did you learn to And did he did he say his grandmother could shoot 529 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:39.079 better than this or you know? And I said yeah and that I said, 530 00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:45.480 okay, you know, I really have to have this credit and I'm 531 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.679 going to stick it out. And uh there were days that would go fly, 532 00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.199 and there were days that just felt like somebody hooked me

up to two 533 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:57.960 high voltage wires and I was being electrocuted to the entire day, you know, 534 00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:02.559 until they called wrap And uh that was that was true? Lies, 535 00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.800 That was true? Lies, And that that was If there was ever a 536 00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:12.840 trial by fire picture, that was that was it for sure. I mean 537 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.559 you hear I mean, I mean I studied Jim's career fairly closely in the 538 00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:20.519 Abyss. I mean, one of the one of the craziest experiences of all 539 00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:23.000 time. And you hear all these stories about him and I and you know, 540 00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:28.079 I actually knew some people who worked on Avatar and how he's changed over 541 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:32.079 time but yet still very very Jim. But so I wanted to ask you 542 00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:38.559 about working with work. He has changed. I've heard he's I heard and 543 00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:43.719 this is just again from secondhand. I've heard he softened a bit. He's 544 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:49.559 not as like he would be back in the prior before Titanic stage, but 545 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:55.199 he's still Jim. Yeah. The thing about well, wasn't the thing about 546 00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:01.960 Jim whenever he gets opportunity work with him or maybe somebody will like him who's 547 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:12.480 come along, is that there's a singularity of vision and almost a lazier like 548 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:19.599 concentration on the scene that he's doing. I mean, I've never seen anybody 549 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:25.239 concentrate like him, and I've never seen anybody working harder than he does on 550 00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.360 the set. I mean, it's it's amazing. I mean, how can 551 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:34.880 somebody be that and invested second after second, you know, because the the 552 00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.679 rest of us mortals seem to say, Okay, I just did that. 553 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:39.960 Now I've got a chance to take a breath. Maybe I'll just go over 554 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:45.639 to the craft service table and do this. That doesn't seem to be Jim 555 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:51.679 to me. He is. I mean, there's in terms of pure devotion 556 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:57.000 to what he's doing, I've never seen another person like him, you know, 557 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:04.280 in my experience. And that's that's really suddle thing. And he and 558 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.920 my sense about him is that every time he does a project, he goes 559 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.840 out and says, there's something I don't know how to do. There's something 560 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:14.920 I've never done, you know with true lines. That's well, I've never 561 00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:19.280 really shot, you know, a comedy, you know. So I'm going 562 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:27.039 to do a comedy or you know, or now Here's Titanic and I'm going 563 00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:30.559 to make I need to make a film that not only succeeds as an attuo 564 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.119 film, but I've got to make a film that totally succeeds as a love 565 00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.440 story. Or the action is not going to mean very much. And so 566 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:44.360 he's he said, he says well, I don't know how to do this 567 00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:52.559 film net and finished. That's his attitude. We'll be right back after a 568 00:49:52.639 --> 00:50:02.280 word from our sponsor and now back to the show. And uh, and 569 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:07.800 you know, I don't think he expects everybody to be perfect, but I 570 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.880 think I know he expects everybody be doing the absolute best job they can, 571 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:16.880 but they know how to do no. And and that's that's saying a lot. 572 00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:22.920 And I mean, I think for the storms that come up, when 573 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.639 they do come up, if you learn not to take them personally and know 574 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.519 this is this is, this is going to last another minute and then it's 575 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:37.599 back to work, then then then you have a chance of not having a 576 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:40.159 nervous right down and some people and some people just can't handle that. Some 577 00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:43.760 people take it too personally. And then this business, I think is one 578 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.480 thing I've learned over the years is you can't take it personally. A lot 579 00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:51.519 of times you just can't. You got to move on. You can't take 580 00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:54.280 it personally. And then the other and especially as a director of photography, 581 00:50:54.599 --> 00:51:01.320 you need to so if there's angst almost set also need to develop the skills 582 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:08.800 that you're not the main source with that a or you're doing something too. 583 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.400 You know, Okay, we all know that things have to be done, 584 00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:17.199 they have to try to do them in a certain time. But I think 585 00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:25.280 I would really starting out, I would mistake my passion when I say, 586 00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.639 oh, this is just passion. But you know, in some ways I 587 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:32.159 look back at it and say, oh, that wasn't passion. You were 588 00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:38.400 just being an asshole. There's that, yeah, And you can learn to 589 00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:43.760 have that passion and this took a long time to learn. You can learn 590 00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:47.119 to have that passion and also have a roaring good time because you're doing all 591 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:50.960 of the best. You know, you're in the position having one of the 592 00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.320

best jobs at least any think that anything have Now when when working with a 593 00:51:55.519 --> 00:52:01.000 director that's so hands on, like what advice would you give? What best 594 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:05.199 would you give you? A cinematographer who has a very hands on director, 595 00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:08.440 meaning that he's very involved with the visual look of the film and how is 596 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:12.920 shooting it might even tell you a little bit of like I want this year 597 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.719 because because a lot of times, you you know, with Jim and I 598 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:21.840 talked to mister Cameron. He's obviously a very technical director and he really knows 599 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:24.199 a lot about what you're doing and pretty much about what everybody else is doing 600 00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:30.440 on the set. And as he's probably often quoted, he'll he'll he'll tell 601 00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.000 people that that he knows that and that and that, and the whole miserable 602 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.840 aspect of that is that he's probably right. When you're working with the genius, 603 00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:45.480 it's it's like here. And I went with Jim in that category. 604 00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:50.960 I do. I think he I think because you at one point you go, 605 00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:59.559 how can somebody who's so technical you do a movie that's also has so 606 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:05.719 much imagination? And and the way he paints and how he how with his 607 00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:09.800 camera angles and the structure, the structure of his script, he sets up 608 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:16.159 a totally immersive experience, you know. And that is that that they have 609 00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:23.280 that technical side and that that that artistic side, all firing, you know, 610 00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:29.039 on on all all cylinders. You know, they're they're all work all 611 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:34.320 the Uh. You know that doesn't happen with Jim, you you know, 612 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:40.760 And I I guess in my personality make up, I'm a pleaser, and 613 00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:44.760 I do I am a person who says, this is the director's vision. 614 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:50.760 How can I help this director with his or her vision? What you want? 615 00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:55.360 Uh? And so you go in. So there's Jim on one end 616 00:53:55.360 --> 00:54:00.760 of the spectrum who is just happy to set up and and frame every every 617 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:07.480 camera you know, uh huh and uh you know what, I'm like a 618 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:16.760 Titanic. H It's interesting like as a cinematographer I had, I had the 619 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:22.000 freedom to do things the way that I thought they should be done. But 620 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:25.559 if I wasn't doing what you wanted, you would definitely let me le so 621 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.760 right. You would say no, no, I want that's not it, 622 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:36.280 I want this, or or I think the light year should be harder or 623 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.519 something like that. So he literally would get that detailed, like no, 624 00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:43.079 this needs to be It's like almost like a Kubrick in that sense that has 625 00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:46.519 such a complete control of the vision that if he doesn't see you doing what 626 00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:52.760 he wants, he will push you or nudge you in the proper direction according 627 00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:59.880 to this vision. But I also tell directors that I know don't have those 628 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:04.000 chops. You know, they're wonderful people who come from writing or some other 629 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:09.039 they say. And especially now it's much much easier with digital. Really, 630 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:15.760 look, if you see something like that that for some reason doesn't work for 631 00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:21.559 you, just just tell me and I and you know and unless it's something 632 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:28.199 really we really don't agree with. But I am, I am. I 633 00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.480 just said, okay, well, yes, I can uh do this a 634 00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:35.679 little different and let's let's see if you're and then you know, in a 635 00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:40.559 second, I'll come back and say that that's right, that it's it's it's 636 00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:45.400 not so much technical, it's just something. It's it's story driven to most 637 00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:49.320 people. So as a cinematographer, you go okay on films. There are 638 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.800 lots of things that have the same but I've always found every single film to 639 00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:58.000 be different, and a lot of that has to do with how you work 640 00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:01.880 with the with the director. I did a lovely film in India called Part 641 00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:07.599 the Very Low, and the director was fantastical. But we we never really 642 00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:12.840 after she told me what where she felt the heart of the story was or 643 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:22.159 or or this particular scene. We didn't really talk about uh lighting we uh 644 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:28.000 and she and in this situation I was I would suggest blocking. I would 645 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:30.719 say, okay, given what I just saw, we could do it this 646 00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:32.079 way, this way and this way, and because we're on a budget and 647 00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:35.440 know if we do it, we'll do it this way. We tell the 648 00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:43.639 story and we just shaved a couple of shots off the scene because we're doing 649 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:46.840 it more efficiently. So as a cinematographer, you can be a service in 650 00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:52.920 to any kind of director that you're you're working with. But again, if 651

00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:59.519 if it's a Jim Cameron, we know that they're going to have lots that 652 00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:05.440 have been point about things that other directors may not care a bit about. 653 00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:09.760 It's very very flexible boes that way. So let's talk a little bit about 654 00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:16.079 that little film Titanic. That is, you know, we've heard legendary stories 655 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:19.920 about, you know, stories from the set. I knew a few actors 656 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.840 on the on the set that have told me a lot of stories. I 657 00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:30.000 mean, at the time it was the biggest budget film in filmmaking history, 658 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:34.039 in Hollywood history. I mean, you basically had every toy you ever wanted 659 00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:37.639 as a cinematographer on set. I'm imagining, can you can you tell me 660 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:43.480 what it was like working on a film of that size and also that magnitude 661 00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:47.320 of me because everybody in the world was looking at that movie and looking how 662 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:52.920 it would finish and how it would end uh or or a lot of the 663 00:57:53.400 --> 00:58:00.840 well, well, we'll say your younger listeners or cure for reading that tip. 664 00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:07.079 The film was such a phenomenon when it would be made, there was 665 00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:12.840 actually on the front of Variety, I think there there was a there was 666 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:20.320 an outline box with its called Titanic Watch because every I thought this thing was 667 00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:29.719 going to be uh just just ghastly flop, because it was the most expensive 668 00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:35.199 movie at the time, and there there were occasionally there would be set backs 669 00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:40.880 because things were being tried that had never been tried before. And also it 670 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:49.280 was it was what I call, uh a very special movie in that it 671 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.800 was a hybrid movie in the sense that a lot of its heart and soul 672 00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:59.840 was where the David Lean epics, you know, Ryan Sun or Doctor shuvag 673 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:07.000 Go or you know the UH, the those big films that it had had 674 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:13.840 a beating heart like that. And yet it was it was it was using 675 00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:20.719 technically, it was using some very very old techniques and at the same time 676 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:27.159 it had UH the out their foot was distinctly in the future in terms of 677 00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:31.760 being done with computer totally cutting edge at that time. You know, when 678 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:37.239 the when then the film was in pre production, they hadn't really worked out 679 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:45.920 a really viable way to make realistic ocean water we'll

be right back after a 680 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:57.239 word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. But there were 681 00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:00.920 two two things that I would read in the paper, uh you know, 682 01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:04.679 because now it's good. It wasn't just the trades, it was the la 683 01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:09.519 times. Well. One was that things were unsafe on the set, and 684 01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:16.480 that is not true. That there was a week We had sometimes uh safety 685 01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:22.599 meetings that would last up to an hour because we had an international crew, 686 01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.639 so you had to you had to do all the safety notes in English and 687 01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.639 then in Spanish because we were in Mexico, and then we had a lot 688 01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:37.119 of home gearyan stent people. Uh so so. But but safety was was 689 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:44.800 really really at top of everybody agenda, and Jim, really, it is 690 01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:46.800 definitely not a well, you know, people are expendable kind of thing. 691 01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:52.480 So whatever somebody cracks of rip breaks leg, that wasn't it. I didn't. 692 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.800 And the other thing was, well, they're just they're just down there 693 01:00:54.880 --> 01:01:00.280 every day figuring out how to throw gold bullion into the the water. This 694 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:05.599 thing is so expensive, you know. And that wasn't the case either. 695 01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:09.440 You know, people would come down from the studios and try and figure out 696 01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:15.760 how to make things be less expensive. And they weren't coming up where eating 697 01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:20.719 solutions either, in fact in fact. But the thing was, the film 698 01:01:20.840 --> 01:01:23.639 was so big it was hard for anybody to get a get a handle on 699 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:27.840 it. And when I came down the first time I went down there, 700 01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:36.159 it was before the rose Rido Beach. The studio hadn't really been built. 701 01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:38.239 It was a work in progress, and there was an ex compliment about it. 702 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.920 It was it was like, well, this is how the gold Rush 703 01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:47.440 was being you know, buildings coming up like you know, crazy in days. 704 01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:52.760 I would go, I was actually working on another movie at the time 705 01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:55.519 this was happening, So I'd come down on the weekends and and it's like 706 01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:00.840 every weekend, gosh, there's another big building just came up, and there's 707 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:05.800 a there's the tanks are being built. And it was really quite a sense 708 01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:09.880 of excitement about it. And then, uh, but what happened was, 709 01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:15.840 you know, on a on a regular film, you have a sense of 710 01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:21.079 where everything fits in and here are the pieces, and you can look at 711 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:25.960 the film as a totality. This film is just so big, you just 712 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:35.840 had to look at it. I did. It's weak, and it was 713 01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:38.800 you're constantly being at one fire after another well, this says it, this 714 01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:44.679 said, it isn't ready. You know, it's like and I'll just just 715 01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:49.599 for example, my John bud Lee was my gap around that that picture. 716 01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:52.599 He went out as a ship was being built and he was trying to figure 717 01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:59.840 out what how to table something as a Titanic, because basically the whole thing 718 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:05.159 is just a huge piece of scaffolding. I mean a huge piece of scaffold 719 01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:10.159 on water. Uh yeah, well but yeah, but not much of the 720 01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:15.599 ship was ever in water. I mean that's part of the illusion that they 721 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:19.800 the tank parts. Most of the tank was just three feet deep, just 722 01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:24.639 just deep enough so a lifeboat could be in the water and you'd have like 723 01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:30.119 three inches of clearance at the bottom of the water. You know. It's 724 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:34.159 kind of like being at Disneyland that way. And I saw it was easy 725 01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:40.440 to move the lifeboats around and then much closer to the ship. Then the 726 01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:45.079 tank was dug much deeper, so people could jump off the side of the 727 01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.760 ship and not land in three feet of water. They had to, you 728 01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:53.039 know, have these twenty twenty feet deep there. And I mean it was 729 01:03:53.440 --> 01:04:00.760 this crazy logistic, you know, and there was this this castor going way 730 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:02.000 too long no, no, no, please don't. We're fine, we're 731 01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:08.000 fine. How people figure this out, I mean how things were scheduled. 732 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:15.400 The ship itself and a lot of the sets were basically engineered the same way. 733 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:24.639 Uh uh cemeteries engineer letting a coffin into the hole. You have cables 734 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.400 under the let's say you have roles under the coffin, and then the winches 735 01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:35.280 you unwine the winches and the cable or straps loosened and they start to take 736 01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:40.320 the weight of the coffin and it drops into the hole. That is the 737 01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:45.079 same thing. That was the same thing as how that huge ship was was 738 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:53.679 dropped. And also we had sets that had to be dry in her one 739 01:04:53.719 --> 01:04:58.199 seem

less say say take that giant dining room with those lights in there. 740 01:04:59.199 --> 01:05:02.800 Uh, we shot are dry scenes, and then a month or two later 741 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:09.639 came back and shot the wet scenes and we were in that dry set was 742 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:16.559 actually built inside a tank. So now filled up with water, and we 743 01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:23.480 have to change all of the lights out because they're going to go under water 744 01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:26.719 and they have to stay lit because that's what happened with the lights on the 745 01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:31.079 Titanic. So so now you're into all kinds of logistical things, so to 746 01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:36.719 make it look like the water is rising, which one end of the set 747 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:44.199 would be lowered on straps until the water started to creep in, and then 748 01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:46.239 the rest of the set would be lowered to make it look like the water 749 01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.920 where rising at a pretty fast rate. And then then you end the take 750 01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:55.199 and you go back to one. But going back to one, can we 751 01:05:55.239 --> 01:05:59.880 set everything? Gree said everything. And there were times that the set would 752 01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:04.159 go into the water and there's chaos happening. You've got hundreds of people and 753 01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:09.800 and all that all the soul were all the table cloths. Uh, they 754 01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:13.280 start to float around and we're talking, you know, about one hundred tables 755 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:16.800 or something like that. They're floating everywhere. So resetting is not an easy 756 01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:23.360 thing. And that was kind of the story of all the amazing takes at 757 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:26.800 the end of the at the end of the movie where the ship's going down 758 01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:34.159 and hundreds of people are running up and download the ship. That was probably 759 01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:41.599 the last film We're real when you saw three hundred people running up and down 760 01:06:42.079 --> 01:06:46.920 that way, because four years later you'd have one not even that long. 761 01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:56.960 Along comes Peter Jackson with Lord of the Rings and he's got thousands of orks 762 01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:02.559 or whatever running around and they're all they're all computer driven and so so Titanic 763 01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:09.280 is really that that movie that made the push out of out of what we 764 01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:14.159 called more classic kind of filmmaking. So how how did you shoot? Like, 765 01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:17.239 how do you shoot a film of that size? Like just on a 766 01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:24.199 technical standpoint that the massive amount, how big was your camera department? That 767 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:28.440 would depend on what we're shooting. We started off

with the smaller fill u 768 01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:33.960 uh, smaller scenes uh, and we'd have one or two cameras and that 769 01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:38.960 was it. And we'd go along that way for a while. And then 770 01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:45.960 when we got to the really big stuff, that's well for the cinematographer before 771 01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:51.599 everybody, that's when the crazy thos happens. You've got Jim would say, 772 01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:55.320 hey, you know what, let's go outside tonight. I want to see 773 01:07:55.360 --> 01:08:01.159 the whole ship and uh, and we're going we weren't even scheduled to do 774 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.840 this for like three more days, and we're not even sure that we can 775 01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:10.800 get everything up and running because just going back to how when you talk about 776 01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:16.640 the immensity, we wound up with something like forty miles of cable inside the 777 01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:19.960 ship and the ship when you go around when you look together side, all 778 01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:27.279 it is is it's scopoli scalfolding, and one set of it has what looks 779 01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:30.279 like a ship blind it and only the two top decks of the ship are 780 01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:39.479 built along the real ship. They and the smoke stacks and stuff like that. 781 01:08:40.479 --> 01:08:44.920 And so we're guarding. Back to my daffort when we're talking about the 782 01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:48.039 immensity of things, he says, he comes back one day and he said, 783 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:54.199 well, we're going to start out with we need we need fifteen hundred 784 01:08:54.319 --> 01:09:00.319 lights. And I, yeah, that's what I What kind of lights are 785 01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:04.520 we talking about? Like lights? Lights? Like film lights? He said, 786 01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:09.279 well, I counted, we counted the portholes, and we've got seven 787 01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:15.520 hundred and fifty portholes. We need. We need what we call a visible 788 01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:19.119 light that the camera can see that looks like it should belong there. And 789 01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:25.359 then we want a ever. We should have at least a one k pointed 790 01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:30.039 out of every porthole. Okay, and so so we've done, we've done 791 01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:33.720 the portholes, and we're up to fifteen hundred lights. So he starts to 792 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:45.119 put his list together and he goes to twentieth century Fox. We'll be right 793 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:51.920 back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. 794 01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:00.199 And John gets a little letter back, a little note that the it's very 795 01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:04.600 it's a very nice note, but the subtext is, you were insane. 796 01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:09.720 You don't know what you're doing. We're going to send down some people who 797 01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:13.039 are going to help you figure out how many lights you need. Okay, 798 01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:16.720 they do that, So they go up, so they go out with John. 799 01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:23.039 This is in pre production. They come back at the end of the 800 01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:28.800 day and these guys say, you don't have enough lights. You need more 801 01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:34.960 light. And they were right, and I have to handle twentieth century box. 802 01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:39.800 They found lights, They went to warehouses, they found you know, 803 01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:44.960 and they refurbished a bunch of of lights. Because at the end of the 804 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.600 day you have just you have those fifteen hundred lights just for the portholes you 805 01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:57.520 have and a lot of them have to be sealed because we go underwater, 806 01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.439 right, and then you have all the lights in all the sets for the 807 01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:06.680 whole movie. And now the number is slipping my mind. But we had 808 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:15.039 a phenomenal amount of light, not only decorative lights, but lights that we 809 01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:18.439 had to use ringing from everything from the huge lights that kind of light the 810 01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:26.479 ship at night to everything we needed to make the movie because because you can't 811 01:11:27.039 --> 01:11:31.159 you have to have your lights hidden, clustered, because you can't just say, 812 01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:34.359 oh, I need a five K and move it from the stern to 813 01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:38.720 the bow which is eight hundred feet away. You know that's not going to 814 01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:45.359 work. So it to John Buckley's credit. I mean, it was just 815 01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:51.159 an enormous undertaking to do this. And the number of lights was in the 816 01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:58.520 thousands of cable the cabling for this thing which looked like I call it like 817 01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:01.840 if you ever saw that movie Brazil by Terry Gillia. Sure it looked like 818 01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:08.359 a Terry Gilliam version of the company in the fifties. I mean it was 819 01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:15.399 a complete cluster whatever of cabling. And how it all stayed on I'll never 820 01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:27.000 know. And and and it was it was a constant battle because because lights, 821 01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:30.960 you know, they're lights, lights, and they go off, you 822 01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:34.720 know, right, God's fifteen hundred. My mind hurts. My brain is 823 01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:39.680 hurting thinking about trying to keep track of a shot because there was no high 824 01:12:39.720 --> 01:12:42.880 end visual I guess they could have done something visual effects, but like you 825 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.680 want fifteen hundred l seven hundred something portals, you're in the

middle of a 826 01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.399 shot, one of the lights goes out, like, oh my god. 827 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:55.279 Yeah. And we learned our lesson in the first way because we I mean, 828 01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:59.439 we had a lot of people back there, you know, in the 829 01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:01.199 scaffold area, but because it was the first man and I think we were 830 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.920 shooting a couple of days earlier, we like John would see some lights going 831 01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:09.800 out, or worse, Jim would see some lights out and it says, 832 01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:12.640 one of those lights doing that, and you've looked over and you had to 833 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:15.560 notice. I mean, oh my god, yeah, and so John would 834 01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:18.079 say, get somebody down to so and so and so and so and this 835 01:13:18.279 --> 01:13:27.159 is god on It's truth. So somebody would run back there and eventually you 836 01:13:27.279 --> 01:13:31.760 see the lights go on. And then about three minutes later we'd hear, 837 01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:38.039 you know, this is so and so. I'm down here. I don't 838 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:41.359 know where I am. I can't find my way out, you know, 839 01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:45.039 when somebody get me because I'm you know, I'm really starting to get nervous, 840 01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:51.720 you know, who eyes that. We would have to play a zone 841 01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:57.199 system and then I'm the same person. We put everything in quadrants, so 842 01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:03.000 like going up, you had level you you have level, you know ABCD, 843 01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:08.239 you know, all the way to whatever it was, and then and 844 01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:13.359 then horizontally you'd have a number so every every quadrant and we have the same 845 01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:18.079 person befooring as this says, worked the same fairly small quadrant night after way, 846 01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:24.760 because that is uh, that was the only way we could do this 847 01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:30.479 efficiently. But that h looking back now, it seems funny, but when 848 01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:34.039 you're waiting, when the director is waiting, it wasn't. I mean, 849 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:39.319 it's it's it's honestly, it's a miracle that no one got hurt. Yeah, 850 01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:45.479 I think in construction some that stunt really Yeah, And we did have 851 01:14:47.279 --> 01:14:51.560 let's see, some somebody else got hit by a car walking along the road 852 01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:57.600 down there that that wasn't on the set. And then that we had one 853 01:14:57.760 --> 01:15:02.359 big night that had and rehearsed for weeks where they at the end of the 854 01:15:03.199 --> 01:15:09.279 at the end of the movie that the stern of the ship goes near near 855 01:15:09.479 --> 01:15:15.640 vertical. Yes, people start falling down and this was they were. What 856 01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:21.000 they were falling down into was a bunch of stunt pads covered in green so 857 01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:28.840 we could extend they make it look longer. And they hadn't all worked out, 858 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:32.560 so the timing, so one person would fall and they were when I 859 01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:38.159 say fall, they were all on these things. Uh these descender rick descender 860 01:15:38.279 --> 01:15:42.079 fan rigs would slow the fall down if it still looked real that it would 861 01:15:42.560 --> 01:15:45.800 be you know, they weren't literally falling more under control. But they had 862 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:50.640 to get out of the harness and then jump out of the pad, you 863 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:57.359 know, not get out of the harness, but disconnect. But on the 864 01:15:57.439 --> 01:16:03.399 first two takes in the in the excitement of it all, like some people 865 01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:06.520 weren't getting it out of the way. So the next person down like somebody 866 01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:12.479 cracked or rebb the land and Jim just said, hey, we're not doing 867 01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:16.800 this anymore, so somebody's going to really get hurt. And uh uh So 868 01:16:16.960 --> 01:16:25.319 we came back later and the really significant falls they were done by uh CG 869 01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:30.520 CG. Yeah, base based on a real person doing a fall that then 870 01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:34.720 became a CG person. Yeah, he was cutting edge because there was nothing 871 01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:38.399 like that at that point. There was nothing like that at that point. 872 01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:43.039 And if you look back at it now, you know you could, Yeah, 873 01:16:43.119 --> 01:16:45.000 you can pick certain things apart and go, but that person is not 874 01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:49.079 quite rocky, right, that must be Yeah, my favorite, My favorite 875 01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:53.880 spoof or the biggest mistake I've saw in Titanic, if I could be so 876 01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:58.840 bold as it called something out, was when Jack's running down the hall while 877 01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.439 the water's rushing behind them him and grows and you see the face that they 878 01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:06.279 plant. They face replaced the stunt people, and you could that's the only 879 01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:12.279 really like blaring visual effect shot that was like, ah, yeah, that 880 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:15.039 that that was the one where you know, he really tried to make that 881 01:17:15.199 --> 01:17:23.079 work, and I guess he pushed the technology too far. Yeah, and 882 01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:30.880 now place well is common lights, but at that time, now there's one 883 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:33.720 there's one more question about Titanic I had, and this is a I've read 884 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:40.520 an American Cinematographer magazine article years ago that I think you gave about the wide 885

01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:45.880 shot of the ship sinking into the water. That the bulbs, because they 886 01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:49.760 were hot, the bulbs on the actual deck, not like film movie movies 887 01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:55.039 lights, but actual lights practicals would hit the water and they would pop, 888 01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:57.920 so that after you would reset, you would have someone go in there and 889 01:17:58.039 --> 01:18:00.880 have to re unscrew and screw back in new light. Is that true or 890 01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:05.520 is that something is true here? The timing on all of the scenes where 891 01:18:06.319 --> 01:18:13.880 that started out basically looking dry and then sinking into the water. Timing was 892 01:18:14.359 --> 01:18:20.239 of the essence because uh, let's just take the dining room. Dining room. 893 01:18:21.279 --> 01:18:26.720 When we shot all the dry the drive drive seems like dinners and stuff 894 01:18:26.800 --> 01:18:33.720 like that, basically normal lights. But when that same set was going to 895 01:18:33.800 --> 01:18:41.239 sink into the water, all the bulbs had to be uh enclosed in a 896 01:18:41.319 --> 01:18:45.920 glass fitting. They had to be water tight because as soon as water hit 897 01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:53.439 any of these bulbs, uh uh, they would explode. Yeah, oh 898 01:18:53.560 --> 01:19:01.960 God. Also if they just stayed on, eventually the heat would build up 899 01:19:02.119 --> 01:19:09.159 inside that air tight by container and it would explode because of the heat. 900 01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:13.560 Jesus. So what we had to do was, I mean, and again, 901 01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:17.880 because we had so many people in these scenes, we would work and 902 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:23.800 work and work and rehearse and rehearse and rehearse, get our whole camera set 903 01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:26.760 up. Then you would do and this is this is just common thing, 904 01:19:27.079 --> 01:19:34.680 especially with sinking things. You'd have to do a set search with divers showing 905 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:43.079 set and make sure that it's nothing or and there was nobody down there who 906 01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:46.279 had been left behind, somebody who hadn't heard the we're gonna shoot you got 907 01:19:46.399 --> 01:19:50.199 it, so that would be time consuming too, so awesome, So you're 908 01:19:50.239 --> 01:19:58.119 looking at another twenty minutes just to do that. Will be right back after 909 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:08.880 a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. Then the 910 01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:15.279 real action, once you call action, the real action has to happen within 911 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:21.800 minute and a half because as soon as you roll cameras well, the lights 912 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:26.520 come on, you roll cameras and then you know that about a minute and 913 01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:30.800 a half from now, these lights have to be underwater where they're

going to 914 01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:36.600 flow. So that's the tiny issue of it all because there was this kind 915 01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:41.840 of this one and a half or two minute drill. That thing had to 916 01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:48.319 happen so that the lights would go into water. But inevitably, if you 917 01:20:48.920 --> 01:20:54.319 say let's just say let's just say a hundred lights, okay, you go 918 01:20:54.479 --> 01:20:59.600 for take two, seven of those lights have gone out. So we had 919 01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:03.840 a team would running grab those lights and then replace them nip lights they were 920 01:21:03.880 --> 01:21:08.800 working. That part didn't take us because we were prepared for that. That 921 01:21:09.199 --> 01:21:14.600 didn't take us long as that you know they might have. Now what h 922 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.039 and I know you've given me so much of your time today, Russell, 923 01:21:17.039 --> 01:21:19.079 thank you so much. I have a few more questions, if your if 924 01:21:19.119 --> 01:21:24.079 your game? Sure, all right, what is the biggest lesson you learned 925 01:21:24.119 --> 01:21:30.119 from shooting Titanic, because that is it was unlike an experience that most cinematographers 926 01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:35.840 will ever have. Yes, In fact, right through we're thinking for a 927 01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:40.479 long we said, yeah, gee, Russ, when are we ever going 928 01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:45.800 to do the big movie and be careful what you wish for? Yeah? 929 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:51.079 Yeah, that's right after titles at the end of the day, the last 930 01:21:51.319 --> 01:21:58.399 the last day called wrap and instead of a big wet yeah, people like 931 01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:01.680 zombies just wandered to the parking lot, got into their cars and rove away 932 01:22:02.680 --> 01:22:09.439 broke broken, broken souls, broken spirits. Yeah, yeah, that's the 933 01:22:09.560 --> 01:22:18.760 biggest lesson, was uh on a film like that that, Hey, you 934 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:26.479 can't be overwhelmed by trying to gobble up the whole experience all at once, 935 01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:31.239 if then you'd never start. You just for me, it was Okay, 936 01:22:31.279 --> 01:22:34.159 I've got the scene. I'm going to do the best I can on this 937 01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:39.399 scene this day, and I know I've got a group of really good people 938 01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:42.119 who are working on the sets that we're going to shoot, you know, 939 01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:45.920 a week from an hour, two weeks from that. Just to really just 940 01:22:46.079 --> 01:22:55.840 hang in there and and do your very best that you can with what's in 941 01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:59.079 front of you. And that was the only way I got through it. 942 01:22:59.319 --> 01:23:00.319 Yeah, because if you try to eat right, if you try to eat 943 01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:03.399 the entire cake, you'll never get through. You have to take it bite 944 01:23:03.439 --> 01:23:09.199 by bite, slice by slice, day by day. Now, what's the 945 01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:18.640 biggest mistake you see young cinematographers make? Uh? Well, because because I've 946 01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:23.960 seen a lot of really great young cinematographers and I don't know what what what 947 01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:29.359 else is happening after I think, gosh, the the only thing I think 948 01:23:29.479 --> 01:23:33.199 is that there was there was a value in shooting film that you really had 949 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:41.039 to know you're stop what what you can do with exposure? And uh, 950 01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:48.079 the only thing that I'm hearing from the lab is that that that sometimes people 951 01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:55.479 shoot thinking that they can fix everything, and when they when they get into 952 01:23:55.520 --> 01:24:00.920 the you know, the post production process, and they you know, and 953 01:24:01.039 --> 01:24:04.760 I can't say that I've seen because I've never seen that, but the labs 954 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:11.640 have, and they'd say, don't these people know that their film could look 955 01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:16.640 so much better if they really paid attention to the lighting this actress for this 956 01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:25.920 actor and and try to do as much of the work on the day while 957 01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:30.560 while you're shooting. And then also, I know, also because you have 958 01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:33.439 a very good then if you have a very good sense of what can be 959 01:24:33.560 --> 01:24:36.039 done and should be done in post, you can say, you know what 960 01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:41.840 that wall over there is too right right now, but I know it's going 961 01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.000 to take me fifteen minutes to fix that now, and I can do it 962 01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:50.279 in thirty seconds in the post. You can just in that kind of knowledge 963 01:24:50.319 --> 01:24:58.159 that oil oil would be a big, big help. All right, very 964 01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:02.359 very good advice. Now, what would you on a business standpoint, the 965 01:25:02.399 --> 01:25:06.279 film business standpoint, what advice would you give a cinematographer wanting to break into 966 01:25:06.319 --> 01:25:15.039 the business. Uh, well, besides the thick skin and and knowing, 967 01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:20.079 hey, you've got to be in this long way, the first two things. 968 01:25:21.079 --> 01:25:26.800 I god, there's so many things. Just learning to work with people. 969 01:25:28.119 --> 01:25:31.520 That's such a because lots of people are really good at what they do 970 01:25:32.159 --> 01:25:39.520 and they're not good at the people end of it. I would, I 971 01:25:39.560 --> 01:25:43.399 would say the cinematographer, even though you just want to be an artist, 972 01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:47.520 the cinematographer has to be an artist, of course, but a scientist

enough 973 01:25:48.039 --> 01:25:54.000 enough to know what the camera that he or she's working with can do what 974 01:25:54.119 --> 01:25:58.680 it's capable of. You also have to be a manager because as you go 975 01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:04.239 along you you're going to have to start to manage how how that your your 976 01:26:04.319 --> 01:26:10.399 we, your people, your weapons are, how their positioned, you know, 977 01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:15.239 in terms of who's who's doing what so you're getting the most efficient use 978 01:26:15.319 --> 01:26:23.000 of them. And then uh and then a politician a politician and I mean 979 01:26:23.079 --> 01:26:28.159 not not so mentioned the smarmy sense of every offering thinking, but it is 980 01:26:28.279 --> 01:26:32.560 a political business. When when I shoot a test with an actor or an 981 01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:36.239 actress, part of what I'm doing there I mean at the screen test is 982 01:26:36.279 --> 01:26:41.720 not only not only is learning what I need to know, but really imparting 983 01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:45.600 to that actor and actress that I will have their best interests at heart. 984 01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:51.920 I want to make politically, I want them to be comfortable to know that 985 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:58.199 uh uh was set for them as way to be a safe place where they 986 01:26:58.199 --> 01:27:02.119 can live the best work. So there's that politic uh political in the sense 987 01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:06.399 that somebody did a bone hitt thing. We did a bone hand thing, 988 01:27:06.439 --> 01:27:12.760 and instead of yelling at them, no, people make mistakes, this person 989 01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:15.439 was trying to do their best job. Mile Agrieven with people. Is that 990 01:27:15.880 --> 01:27:20.800 if the biggest issue I have is that I know somebody is very competent and 991 01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:28.640 they're just not trying. That that's the big issue. Better. So So 992 01:27:29.159 --> 01:27:31.319 anyway, there are so many things you've got to be able to do and 993 01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:38.560 make make art well while catastrophe is happening around you. Well that's the other 994 01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:42.800 thing. Well one who in a nutshell? Those are the things that I 995 01:27:44.920 --> 01:27:46.920 do. Now, I'll ask you the last few questions. I ask all 996 01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:51.880 my guests, Can you tell me what book had the biggest impact on your 997 01:27:51.960 --> 01:28:00.079 life or career? Oh? There, these are heavy questions. Yeah, 998 01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:04.680 I know they will know if I have an answer to right now. Look, 999 01:28:05.439 --> 01:28:12.319 yeah, I didn't know. I don't have an answer to. All 1000 01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:14.399 right, well, then we'll move on to the next question. It's okay, 1001 01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:17.840 what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in 1002 01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:27.840 life or in the film business? Uh? In life and the film business, 1003 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.520 because it seems like whatever whatever we choose to do in life, there 1004 01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:34.640 are other lessons that were here. It seems to me we have to learn. 1005 01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:43.079 And uh, what is who say as passionate as I am, or 1006 01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:45.159 as fast as I want to go or whatever as good as I want. 1007 01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:51.800 When I have picture to look, I have to have empathy for what anybody 1008 01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:57.760 on the set is going through. I mean, I think developing empathy that 1009 01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:02.239 that that somebody might be at work and they might be coming up a very 1010 01:29:02.479 --> 01:29:12.359 very tumultuous home life, or or they're working. Uh and uh, you 1011 01:29:12.439 --> 01:29:16.720 know, maybe they're they're they're working with a with some injury that's healing, 1012 01:29:17.119 --> 01:29:23.920 or or just that I could say something. I don't think it happened much 1013 01:29:24.279 --> 01:29:28.680 now, but I could certainly see it happening early on. You say something 1014 01:29:28.760 --> 01:29:32.000 that's meant to be a joke, and yet it cuts to the quick with 1015 01:29:32.199 --> 01:29:38.800 somebody, and and you just have to have just trying to again have the 1016 01:29:38.880 --> 01:29:44.279 empathy of what it's like to be another person on the set or to be 1017 01:29:45.039 --> 01:29:49.560 you know, happy having to work. Make me what what does that experience 1018 01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:59.399 like? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now 1019 01:29:59.600 --> 01:30:05.600 back to the show. The excellent, excellent answer, And what are three 1020 01:30:05.640 --> 01:30:11.159 of your favorite films of all time? Oh my god, and pick anything 1021 01:30:11.199 --> 01:30:14.319 that comes to mind. Okay, yes, for the look of it, 1022 01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:20.159 rent Uh searching for Bobby Fisher because I love the story. I love the 1023 01:30:20.199 --> 01:30:30.000 way it would. Oh god, there's so many searching searching for Bobby Fisher. 1024 01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:32.000 Such a that is like a dp's movie, isn't it? What he 1025 01:30:32.119 --> 01:30:36.079 did? And the name I'm sorry, please forgive me the name. Oh 1026 01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:40.439 yes, Conrad Hall. What he did with like he was shooting with mirrors 1027 01:30:40.640 --> 01:30:45.279 and he was what he did in that movie for cinema on a cinematography standpoint 1028 01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:49.680 is remarkable, right yeah, yeah, And just just the got it took 1029 01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:55.960 some things when he did. But how beautiful that blub looks, and how 1030 01:30:56.159 --> 01:31:00.760 was shot the camera was placed because a lot of that, I mean, 1031 01:31:00.760 --> 01:31:04.600 you really are putting yourself in the place of this very

young young I guess 1032 01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:11.840 eleven years old. M hm. And and that was a great Oh god, 1033 01:31:11.880 --> 01:31:15.680 there's there's so many more films and oh, you know Red Shoes, 1034 01:31:15.720 --> 01:31:19.800 which a lot of people, yes, Red Shoes is just I to me, 1035 01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:26.079 I thought that was a stunning a stunning film and a marvel of the 1036 01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:31.800 technical process. And I probably got hunter more, probably right now right here. 1037 01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:36.119 That that's what coppens to mind. And last question, what was it 1038 01:31:36.439 --> 01:31:43.720 like winning the Oscar? I have been asked that, and I think it's 1039 01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:47.119 a for for me it was really weird. But when I found out it's 1040 01:31:47.119 --> 01:31:51.760 all about the dress, you know, but if my wife's dress, but 1041 01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:59.439 she was going to wear. But uh, it was at that point I 1042 01:31:59.640 --> 01:32:03.880 was not uh. I think I was so serious. I didn't really allow 1043 01:32:04.039 --> 01:32:09.920 myself to feel the joy, the kind of kick in the pants that that 1044 01:32:10.159 --> 01:32:17.399 must be. I uh uh the And what happened was I won the Oscar 1045 01:32:18.159 --> 01:32:24.720 and then within uh eight hours later, I was in the hospital. I 1046 01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:29.920 the very night I passed a kidneys and I didn't pass, but I had 1047 01:32:29.960 --> 01:32:35.039 a kidney stone. And that's such agony. So you really couldn't you could 1048 01:32:35.079 --> 01:32:41.640 have relish in the achievement. Yeah yeah, So everyone's like, uh yeah, 1049 01:32:42.119 --> 01:32:45.159 but uh, it's really weird. Like right now, I feel like 1050 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:50.079 I'm enjoying uh uh what passes for a career and is much much more. 1051 01:32:50.319 --> 01:32:55.760 I'm having much much more to find on the set, appreciating a lot more 1052 01:32:55.960 --> 01:33:01.359 and and and I have I would say a little bit or maybe maybe a 1053 01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:10.840 considerable about more of tranquility because early on I was just so nervous about, 1054 01:33:11.239 --> 01:33:14.880 you know, how things are going or not going in there. Now I 1055 01:33:15.640 --> 01:33:17.880 look back and I say, yeah, well, like right now, I'm 1056 01:33:17.960 --> 01:33:20.960 going through a period where a little bit is seems to be calling, and 1057 01:33:21.880 --> 01:33:27.479 now I'm going through a period where too many people have called and I or 1058 01:33:28.039 --> 01:33:31.880 whatever. Yeah, you know right, I just say I can take what's 1059 01:33:32.680 --> 01:33:39.680 kind of on the plate where the more ease than I than I did before. 1060 01:33:40.279 --> 01:33:43.880 Russell, I want to thank you so so much for your time and 1061 01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:48.039 amazing stories and amazing advice you're giving our listeners. Thank you again so much 1062 01:33:48.119 --> 01:33:53.720 for being here. Okay, well, thank you very much. That interview 1063 01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:58.720 does not disappoint Russell again is so amazing, and thank you Russell so much 1064 01:33:58.760 --> 01:34:01.279 for taking the time out. I know. So you literally just got back 1065 01:34:01.319 --> 01:34:04.800 from Bali and heading over to Vancouver, and you had two days to rest, 1066 01:34:04.880 --> 01:34:08.239 and you took an hour and a half of that time to speak to 1067 01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:10.720 me. So thank you again, and I hope you guys got a lot 1068 01:34:10.760 --> 01:34:14.199 out of that interview. You know, it was just such a thrill for 1069 01:34:14.319 --> 01:34:17.199 me to sit down and talk to Russell and to pick his brain about his 1070 01:34:17.359 --> 01:34:21.680 process and his first hand experience of working on some of the biggest movies of 1071 01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:28.039 all time, working with the biggest directors and filmmakers of our generation. So 1072 01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:31.800 it was such a pleasure and humbling experience doing this, so I hope you 1073 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:34.840 guys got a lot out of it. I know I did. I got 1074 01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:40.479 really jacked up and really inspired and kind of start shooting again. But there'll 1075 01:34:40.520 --> 01:34:44.119 be more on that later. But anyway, guys, thanks again for listening. 1076 01:34:44.600 --> 01:34:45.960 You want to see anything we talked about in the show, head over 1077 01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:50.439 to our show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot TV. Forward slash three for Thank 1078 01:34:50.479 --> 01:34:54.439 you so much for listening. Guys. As always, keep on writing no 1079 01:34:54.640 --> 01:34:58.199 matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof 1080 01:34:58.279 --> 01:35:06.479 Screenwriting podcast full of group screenwriting dot tv. Mm hmm