บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Making the Blueprint - Season Finale!

insourcing, I got involved in all sorts. 00:02:27.693 --> 00:02:36.033 and it was probably my, the primary education I've had working in organisations, both as a functional leader. 00:02:37.264 --> 00:02:48.229 And someone who's driving performance and doing all the things I've just said, but also, development as a human being and being a leader and understanding organisational culture and the impact of it. 00:02:48.484 --> 00:02:50.133 it was just, incredible. 00:02:50.463 --> 00:02:53.403 and then I spent, was up until 2006. 00:02:54.123 --> 00:02:58.834 done a couple of other roles in between, with tele performance and Britannic Assurance. 00:02:59.313 --> 00:03:03.813 And then I started to freelance, consult in 2006. 00:03:05.253 --> 00:03:06.364 needed a bit of a fresh start. 00:03:06.364 --> 00:03:07.954 A couple of things had happened in our lives. 00:03:08.824 --> 00:03:10.653 my wife and my, my life. 00:03:10.713 --> 00:03:13.683 And then, yeah, I started consulting. 00:03:13.984 --> 00:03:20.943 worked with different companies, a mix of associate work, direct work, works with lots of different companies, but all very much in that customer experience leadership. 00:03:22.623 --> 00:03:23.313 type work. 00:03:24.033 --> 00:03:41.373 and then in 2015, after partnering with customer whisperers, who set the business up and I met back in 2013, 14, I think it was, did a project with UK Power Networks, Boohoo, red Row, and a couple of others that I cannot remember at this stage. 00:03:41.554 --> 00:03:50.104 And then we partnered on National Express and I went in there with the intention of we were just doing a customer experience session for two hours at the conference. 00:03:50.463 --> 00:03:52.324 And I really liked what we were talking about. 00:03:52.324 --> 00:03:54.394 We got invited back in to talk about a project. 00:03:54.873 --> 00:04:04.593 I ended up doing an interim gig there that was only supposed to be a few months, and it turned into an eight year career where I ended up being customer office chief customer officer by the end of it. 00:04:04.984 --> 00:04:19.653 And there I got involved in, again, organisational change driving, driving a more customer centric culture, so bringing customer from the app, from the sidelines to the center of the organisation, transforming customer contact and customer service. 00:04:20.434 --> 00:04:21.694 Digital transformation. 00:04:21.694 --> 00:04:26.434 So I led the whole insourcing of digital product design and development. 00:04:26.434 --> 00:04:29.463 So we went all agile and we brought teams in. 00:04:29.524 --> 00:04:31.593 I started an innovation center. 00:04:31.983 --> 00:04:40.293 I was in MD for a couple of years, and then in 2003 I left after we had big reorg and it was time to go. 00:04:40.293 --> 00:04:44.673 Anyway, I'd been there eight years, seven years longer than I planned on being there. 00:04:46.233 --> 00:04:57.363 and, looked at the market thought, I want another exact role or I, had a bit of unfinished business to do from the last stint of being, self-employed. 00:04:57.369 --> 00:05:04.129 So I set up then Dhruva star, When you and I first worked together, and I'm sure we'll talk about that in a little while. 00:05:04.968 --> 00:05:15.798 then April this year, I acquired a majority staking customer whisperers and rebranded, after Nick and I had, who had, we'd always joked over the years about working together at some point. 00:05:17.209 --> 00:05:18.168 the timing was right. 00:05:18.499 --> 00:05:19.759 Nick's off doing something else. 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:24.079 She's still involved in the business in the background, but I run the business day to day now. 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:28.218 customer whispers is my, consultancy business. 00:05:28.218 --> 00:05:35.088 And I do loads of public speaking as well, so people have probably seen me at events and conferences and stuff speaking from the stage. 00:05:36.139 --> 00:05:41.028 my whole gambit is all about how do you get customers to come back, tell their friends and spend again. 00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:47.389 and predicated on the idea that the product to customer experience is memory and it's memories 00:05:47.449 --> 00:05:47.668 Yep. 00:05:47.778 --> 00:05:48.619 our future decision. 00:05:48.619 --> 00:05:51.199 So I'm very much approaching this from a more. 00:05:51.649 --> 00:05:59.329 Psychological neuro neuroscience, neurobiology kind of leadership and culture perspective. 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:07.249 then during that journey, there was a guy who was running a company called Evolve CX, who asked me to be on his podcast. 00:06:08.538 --> 00:06:09.288 and so I did. 00:06:10.098 --> 00:06:16.908 so we met, and then I'll hand you over to who was that guy to talk about his journey. 00:06:16.908 --> 00:06:19.189 And then we can tell you a little bit about how this all came about. 00:06:20.572 --> 00:06:23.452 thanks Vinay and nicely, transitioned across. 00:06:24.202 --> 00:06:26.283 so, my background, very similar to Vinay. 00:06:26.302 --> 00:06:26.812 Actually. 00:06:26.843 --> 00:06:34.463 My very first job was working in a call center, for a, an up and coming telecoms company based in London Docklands. 00:06:34.463 --> 00:06:37.163 And my job was to handle customer complaints. 00:06:37.377 --> 00:06:41.812 Imagine that coming into your first job and your first job is to handle complaints. 00:06:41.812 --> 00:06:49.973 And, much, it shaped me in terms of, how I then progressed on in my career later on. 00:06:49.973 --> 00:06:54.233 But being able to help solve their problems is where it all began for me. 00:06:55.192 --> 00:06:57.773 in terms of my kind of working career standpoint. 00:06:58.192 --> 00:07:11.778 Outside of that, my love for technology has been there since I was a little kid, graduated, where with a computer science degree and that kind of went on to lots of different types of tech, technology, jobs, my kind of passion. 00:07:12.713 -->

00:07:24.802 Kind of what I realised when working within that call center and other jobs that I did, I, obsessed by experience and I know our focus is about customer experience, but actually it's about everybody's experience. 00:07:24.802 --> 00:07:35.773 It's your experience as a user when using any technology to actually a customer, then being exposed to the technology that you are exposing to you, to your customers as an organisation. 00:07:36.427 --> 00:07:42.637 That to me became a bit of an obsession around how can we use technology to really make lives better for people. 00:07:42.788 --> 00:07:43.747 that's the ultimate goal. 00:07:44.197 --> 00:07:49.538 And regardless of what I've done throughout my career, that's, always been a big focus. 00:07:50.468 --> 00:07:56.108 it just happens to be that I've, leaned towards customer experience as a technology. 00:07:56.108 --> 00:08:03.608 That, that's because I, love the impact that, that, that actually has on, the bottom line from an organisation standpoint. 00:08:03.817 --> 00:08:11.737 but more importantly, I just feel like the, we are so behind as, civilisation when it comes to handling. 00:08:12.947 --> 00:08:16.848 things in life when it comes to solving your customer's problems. 00:08:18.137 --> 00:08:29.028 so, now over the years, my most recent role at, Zoom, which where I was for about four, four and a half to five years, I built out as a lead, within the leadership team there. 00:08:29.028 --> 00:08:38.148 I built out, a team of CX solution engineers where actually we, our ethos and culture was all about, let's put technology aside. 00:08:38.148 --> 00:08:43.998 Let's really understand the problems we're trying to solve here, and genuinely try and figure out how the technology can help. 00:08:43.998 --> 00:08:50.298 And, again, late last year, I decided to, make a decision similar to what VIN A did. 00:08:51.317 --> 00:08:53.658 gone, have gone on alone. 00:08:53.707 --> 00:08:56.138 So that's paved the way for evolved cx. 00:08:56.888 --> 00:08:59.977 ultimately the goal for this is I'm building out e. 00:09:00.927 --> 00:09:15.207 A technology focused consultancy to help organisations get, big maximum value out of, investment in technology when it comes to making the right decisions, it comes to figuring out, direction they wanna go in. 00:09:15.508 --> 00:09:19.738 I think the market at the moment is full of choice. 00:09:19.977 --> 00:09:24.957 there's so much choice you can, nobody really knows which direction to go in. 00:09:25.738 --> 00:09:28.378 tend to go with what you know, generally speaking. 00:09:29.097 --> 00:09:42.357 but wouldn't it be great to just work with somebody who has experience across lots of different technologies and and somebody who takes the time to actually understand what you're trying to achieve first, rather than shove technology down your throat. 00:09:42.357 --> 00:09:44.187 And I think that's what we are seeing a lot of. 00:09:45.118 --> 00:09:51.927 something that I'm seeing coming from, working in vendors, working with partners who are selling this technology. 00:09:52.227 --> 00:09:53.727 The focus is more around. 00:09:54.182 --> 00:09:56.222 How do we hit our quarter number? 00:09:56.552 --> 00:09:58.173 How do we sell more licenses? 00:09:58.263 --> 00:09:59.972 That's the focus naturally, right? 00:10:00.003 --> 00:10:00.932 With any business. 00:10:00.932 --> 00:10:02.373 That's got to be the driver. 00:10:03.363 --> 00:10:04.442 we've got to flip it. 00:10:04.893 --> 00:10:06.062 this is what I'm trying to do. 00:10:06.062 --> 00:10:07.653 It is easier said than done. 00:10:08.038 --> 00:10:08.552 Actually. 00:10:08.732 --> 00:10:11.133 I don't want it to be about selling more software. 00:10:12.212 --> 00:10:14.253 let's see if I can fix your problems. 00:10:14.523 --> 00:10:28.982 And if it means that, we as a business can make money by selling you technology that actually solves your problem, drives revenues, delivers great experiences to your users and customers, that's a huge win for us, here at Evolved. 00:10:30.323 --> 00:10:30.744 Awesome. 00:10:32.333 --> 00:10:33.114 It is a, it's a. 00:10:33.653 --> 00:10:39.413 I suppose that leads us nicely onto, I suppose you were gonna ask, how did the, podcast come about? 00:10:39.413 --> 00:10:40.313 This idea come about? 00:10:40.583 --> 00:10:55.193 So in a similar way to Iqbal's Drive being about solving problems through technology and completely right about flipping that model in its head of solving problems rather than just banking revenue based upon seats, which of course, businesses have gotta make money. 00:10:55.494 --> 00:10:56.244 what's not wrong with that? 00:10:57.024 --> 00:11:00.744 My thing has always been about enriching human experience. 00:11:01.043 --> 00:11:07.134 And the reason I say that is, is that, things happen in all of our lives, but I had a couple of things in life, it just made me look in the mirror and. 00:11:07.989 --> 00:11:09.849 life's a one time opportunity, right? 00:11:09.938 --> 00:11:14.769 And experience that we have and the way that we touch people's lives is what they remember us for. 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:15.428 They don't remember us. 00:11:15.428 --> 00:11:18.399 For all the trinkets and things that we had and the bank account we had, that's what we remember. 00:11:19.149 --> 00:11:19.869 And the, same. 00:11:20.678 --> 00:11:24.818 a lot of our time we spend dealing with organisations and companies in our daily lives. 00:11:25.208 --> 00:11:29.139 And those moments are so poor and they have an impact on people's lives. 00:11:29.229 --> 00:11:33.609 And I'm just like, if you can improve those moments that people have with the organisations, two things happens. 00:11:33.609 --> 00:11:36.849 One, you enrich the, life of the individual. 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:39.879 You give them a better quality of life'cause they have better experiences and live better. 00:11:40.359 -->

00:11:48.849 But you also, the businesses do better'cause they're delivering greater experiences and people talk about them in a more positive way, and, come back and refer them. 00:11:48.849 --> 00:11:55.538 And we've all had those moments around dining room tables, around pub tables, around, tables, any kind of table or anything. 00:11:55.538 --> 00:12:01.359 When we gather together that we share those experiences about movies, books, we shop with, places that we go. 00:12:01.658 --> 00:12:02.379 They're all that. 00:12:02.828 --> 00:12:10.839 And what I found over my career was, is that in many cases that thing that we wrap up as customer experience, two things had happened. 00:12:10.839 --> 00:12:20.349 One, the term had got hijacked by tech vendors and some, people that were just rebadging customer service and contact centers as customer experience. 00:12:20.889 --> 00:12:26.889 And secondly, it was being undervalued as a thing that you did on the side that was just about being nice and the fluff that you put on top. 00:12:27.188 --> 00:12:32.288 And it wasn't really seen the valuable commercial lever that it is in a business. 00:12:32.469 --> 00:12:33.999 it's part of your growth strategy. 00:12:34.719 --> 00:12:41.798 do all the hard work of attracting customers through the door in the first place, but then if you don't deliver an experience that brings them back. 00:12:41.859 --> 00:12:49.239 And, I was saying to somebody the other day, the worst kind of experience that you can deliver is one that you just describe as, okay. 00:12:50.078 --> 00:12:55.178 I'd rather have one that was shit that somebody writes to me and tells me was really poor that I can learn from and fix. 00:12:55.903 --> 00:12:56.649 a really great one. 00:12:56.649 --> 00:13:00.668 But all that effort to just get an okay, that's that's the worst crime. 00:13:00.908 --> 00:13:08.979 But yet companies are delivering between a five and out, five out of 10 and a seven and a half outta 10 experience every single day. 00:13:08.979 --> 00:13:12.158 And they're thinking it's okay, but all the effort to get the customer through the door. 00:13:13.149 --> 00:13:15.099 the kind of the of the backdrop. 00:13:15.099 --> 00:13:21.639 And then, so where Iqbal and I connected on his podcast, we, had a really great conversation and off the back of it I was like, these are really good. 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:22.629 We should do this more. 00:13:22.629 --> 00:13:27.668 Because we had really good conversation and he brought real good tech angle to it and, I brought what I bring to it. 00:13:28.058 --> 00:13:37.328 And then the idea of breaking the blueprint was born because we wanted to break out the typical conversation of NPS csat, do this, don't do that. 00:13:37.328 --> 00:13:39.879 The stuff that we were just seeing, flying up and down LinkedIn. 00:13:40.764 --> 00:13:45.774 a much more broader, nuanced conversation to bring customer experience into the center. 00:13:45.774 --> 00:13:51.894 And this idea of customer loyalty to the center, which is, this is much more about the, entire end-to-end journey. 00:13:51.894 --> 00:13:58.734 This is about, front end backend, the inside, the outside technology people, all of those kind of things. 00:13:58.734 --> 00:14:10.403 So we just wanted to bring an interesting set of conversations and those people that aren't normally associated with CX and customer loyalty and those to give them a window in and a. 00:14:10.403 --> 00:14:12.744 way of connecting with the kind of things that we talk about. 00:14:13.464 --> 00:14:20.234 and hopefully, the profile and raise the value of what customer experience really represents in organisations. 00:14:21.283 --> 00:14:21.974 I love that. 00:14:22.033 --> 00:14:25.033 I love all that, and there are so many. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.899 Connections between all of us. 00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:31.678 Iqbal you mentioned your journey starting in computer science. 00:14:31.979 --> 00:14:33.089 I'm a tech person. 00:14:33.178 --> 00:14:34.828 I started out in software engineering. 00:14:35.278 --> 00:14:39.208 I've never, actually, never actually programmed, coded in anger. 00:14:40.053 --> 00:14:48.208 So I'm a failed software engineer because the irony is when I left, university, I decided that I didn't want to sit behind a desk the rest of my life. 00:14:48.208 --> 00:14:49.558 That sounds incredibly boring. 00:14:49.798 --> 00:14:52.948 I wanna go and work with people and to be a people person. 00:14:53.249 --> 00:14:55.198 And I went out and worked in a call center. 00:14:55.708 --> 00:14:57.538 I did 11 months in a call center. 00:14:57.538 --> 00:15:01.759 I worked on Yorkshire Electric right in the middle of their super complaint 00:15:02.423 --> 00:15:02.484 Oh 00:15:03.928 --> 00:15:05.009 that was fun. 00:15:05.099 --> 00:15:10.469 I can tell you, working on pre-pay meters that, that we going through was super compliant. 00:15:12.149 --> 00:15:19.769 and so yeah, that was a baptism of fire and I left that role, because my, I met my wife there, right? 00:15:20.099 --> 00:15:24.298 I met my wife and she's the reason I left that role because we can't work together in that way. 00:15:24.688 --> 00:15:28.828 I was not at a level of ethics and morals that lived to her standards. 00:15:28.828 --> 00:15:33.389 At that point, it was okay for us to be together, but not for the working part, right? 00:15:33.688 --> 00:15:35.519 So I left and I went into retail. 00:15:35.969 --> 00:15:48.688 And much the same as what you guys have said is I found that I was leagues above everybody else in my capabilities because I dealt with all of these customer service and I'd been trained how to talk to people. 00:15:48.869 --> 00:15:53.788 I knew what good and bad was in terms of a customer experience. 00:15:54.119 --> 00:15:59.219 And although I'd only been there 11 months, you take a lot in, you have to absorb, you'd sink or swim in that environment.

00:15:59.578 --> 00:16:02.158 And then I find retail's very much a similar environment. 00:16:02.158 --> 00:16:06.808 It's very high stress, very much dealing with things that there's nobody else coming to your rescue, right? 00:16:06.808 --> 00:16:08.634 You have to be able to deal with it there and then, 00:16:08.933 --> 00:16:09.224 Yeah. 00:16:09.658 --> 00:16:17.308 but you're also in a leadership capacity then responsible for the customer experience within your environment, whatever that looks like. 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:24.359 So it's, ironic that we've all ended up on the same path together in and then been joined together. 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:27.208 And I love the fact that you guys got thrown together through a podcast. 00:16:27.658 --> 00:16:29.278 And I see this so often. 00:16:29.339 --> 00:16:35.458 I love podcasts for their ability to connect, personalities. 00:16:36.418 --> 00:16:43.798 Paths, experiences and, bring those to the boil so you can see what it is that, that everybody's made of. 00:16:44.489 --> 00:16:44.969 And time. 00:16:44.969 --> 00:16:58.469 And I see this time and time again, people connect either because they're a guest on a host podcast, and actually they realise afterwards that, oh, we're really aligned and I didn't realise how close we were until we just had that brilliant conversation. 00:16:59.068 --> 00:17:12.118 Or you are a member of the audience and you see the, guests or the hosts talking about things and it just sparks your curiosity or your imagination, or it speaks to the real challenges that you have. 00:17:13.318 --> 00:17:23.278 But what really aligned with me for you guys and the podcast that you have is I, spent, what, four years as sales slash marketing. 00:17:23.338 --> 00:17:27.628 I was, a, senior solutions consultant straight out of retail. 00:17:28.378 --> 00:17:33.148 I, dunno how that works, but I was, I was, selling conversation analytics, right? 00:17:33.929 --> 00:17:34.798 That was, my, role. 00:17:35.368 --> 00:17:39.419 And it brings together everything that you guys talk about. 00:17:39.419 --> 00:17:47.578 So the fact that we were all introduced, it's not, it wasn't, look, it was certainly engineered, but it was very serendipitous. 00:17:47.999 --> 00:17:52.078 is what I'd see is'cause we all get each other and I love the content that you guys create. 00:17:52.078 --> 00:17:52.558 I get it. 00:17:52.558 --> 00:18:03.239 And I love the angle that you bring to it because I know, there's a lot of my audience, and when I say the word AHT, a lot of my audience would be like, what? 00:18:05.189 --> 00:18:07.618 but we've all done the customer service scores, right? 00:18:07.618 --> 00:18:11.638 We've all had the email, Hey, you've just had your, MOT from us. 00:18:11.939 --> 00:18:13.663 How would you rate the service that you received? 00:18:13.963 --> 00:18:14.253 Yeah. 00:18:16.439 --> 00:18:19.739 I, my car was okay and it didn't need anything fixing. 00:18:19.828 --> 00:18:20.398 Thanks. 00:18:20.772 --> 00:18:21.192 Yeah. 00:18:22.378 --> 00:18:22.709 great. 00:18:23.669 --> 00:18:24.058 okay. 00:18:24.058 --> 00:18:24.689 Six. 00:18:27.298 --> 00:18:27.598 what's. 00:18:28.903 --> 00:18:31.993 if, you could see, and I'll throw this open to both of you, right? 00:18:33.163 --> 00:18:45.193 if, you could see an impact from the, breaking the blueprint in a real life example, what sort of things would you hope to be achieving on behalf of your, audience? 00:18:46.157 --> 00:18:50.623 I, I think a couple of things for me may, maybe as an unexpected answer. 00:18:50.623 --> 00:19:01.153 It's, for me, it's helped, it's helped me build confidence actually in my ability to, talk about subjects which are perhaps out of my comfort zone. 00:19:01.153 --> 00:19:06.673 Sometimes, I get the technology stuff, you give me a problem, I'll find the technology to fix that problem. 00:19:07.303 --> 00:19:09.492 Like that, stuff I can talk about all day long. 00:19:09.823 --> 00:19:14.413 But when it comes to going outside the, that, that. 00:19:15.178 --> 00:19:21.718 the boundaries of seeing what impact technology really has on the stuff that Vinay talks about. 00:19:22.647 --> 00:19:29.067 for me personally, I've learned hell of a lot, through stuff that, Vinay shared and the guests that have come on. 00:19:29.067 --> 00:19:31.647 So it's been a personal journey for me, if nothing else. 00:19:32.337 --> 00:19:34.468 that's been a great positive for me on that front. 00:19:35.597 --> 00:19:50.038 on, another point, always, I'm coming across people all the time and they're saying, yeah, saw your podcast, like every, everybody's been very supportive in what we're trying to do as well in terms of trying to being brave enough. 00:19:50.038 --> 00:19:57.387 And I think that's the one thing that I get the feedback that I always get is, wow, you know what, what you guys are doing is pretty amazing. 00:19:57.508 --> 00:19:59.337 and obviously to me it doesn't feel that way to me. 00:19:59.337 --> 00:20:03.748 It's We're just having a conversation and we just happen to put it on, online. 00:20:04.018 --> 00:20:05.817 If people wanna listen to us, great. 00:20:05.817 --> 00:20:07.048 If not, no problem. 00:20:07.077 --> 00:20:12.238 But more importantly, as you said, we'd like people to get value from what we're trying to share. 00:20:13.077 --> 00:20:17.397 I think we're still trying to shape what this is we're into the first tier. 00:20:17.397 --> 00:20:20.008 It's not, it's, a little bit imperfect at times. 00:20:20.008 --> 00:20:30.298 And I think, where I guess Paul, your support's been very useful in being able to us in the right direction as to what we can do really well, what we're not doing so well. 00:20:31.167 --> 00:20:33.597 some of the technology mishaps we've had along the way. 00:20:33.897 --> 00:20:38.188 So I think we, we've learned ahead of a lot, like in all honesty to, I dunno, what, do you think 00:20:38.659 -->

00:20:39.648 Yeah, loads. 00:20:39.949 --> 00:20:41.209 technology mishaps. 00:20:41.239 --> 00:20:46.608 It's normally me that, puts my camera on, what was it that I did when I recorded a 00:20:46.769 --> 00:20:47.398 lapse. 00:20:47.749 --> 00:20:50.358 time lapse and then recorded the whole keynote in Time lapse. 00:20:50.358 --> 00:20:51.469 and it's one of the best I've done. 00:20:51.469 --> 00:20:51.858 I was like, damn. 00:20:52.638 --> 00:20:55.003 And then, fails and all those kind of things. 00:20:55.003 --> 00:20:55.459 So Yeah. 00:20:55.459 --> 00:20:56.388 learn absolute loads. 00:20:56.388 --> 00:20:58.398 I think for me, a couple of things. 00:21:00.138 --> 00:21:06.679 ever since I was a kid, I've been looked at as somebody that is just never short of ideas come to me. 00:21:06.979 --> 00:21:09.348 somebody once said to me, you have more ideas in a minute. 00:21:10.013 --> 00:21:11.513 Than people were having their lifetime. 00:21:11.544 --> 00:21:20.365 Like you're just, you're full of just great ideas, so many of those ideas get written down on a page, put in a book, and they sit on the shelf here in a notebook and never come to life. 00:21:21.203 --> 00:21:26.933 So for me, the fact that we got this off paper into something was huge. 00:21:27.233 --> 00:21:37.134 And I was listening to Brene Brown this morning on a drive down, and she was on a podcast with Steven, ironically, on a podcast with Steven Barlett, and they were talking about, vulnerability and courage. 00:21:37.614 --> 00:21:40.973 And vulnerability is the emotion that we feel when something's uncertain. 00:21:42.263 --> 00:21:48.294 we have anxiety and it's, and, it's, we feel an emotion about it, right? 00:21:48.594 --> 00:21:53.544 it's the feeling we get from uncertainty, anxiety, and the unknown, right? 00:21:54.203 --> 00:22:00.263 And I think part of the process of this was getting comfortable with putting content out there that you then can't control. 00:22:00.653 --> 00:22:01.973 You can't control how people look at it. 00:22:01.973 --> 00:22:03.773 You can't control how people respond to it. 00:22:04.134 --> 00:22:05.364 You are putting your stuff out there. 00:22:05.364 --> 00:22:08.903 So when you hit the launch button and you send it out there, there is that level of. 00:22:09.848 --> 00:22:10.449 what have I done? 00:22:10.453 --> 00:22:11.183 What have I said? 00:22:11.423 --> 00:22:12.878 What have I, what's gonna happen? 00:22:12.878 --> 00:22:24.219 So I think for me, the development of being comfortable with that and using that courage or vulnerability as a strength, has been really, key. 00:22:24.249 --> 00:22:26.588 I think, in terms of what I want the podcast. 00:22:26.588 --> 00:22:42.939 So what I, would love the post to do is to move the conversation from CX that I see every year, every January when a report comes out, 65% of executives say CX is a priority, 72% of, and then the buying free is never there. 00:22:43.028 --> 00:22:47.499 And,

CX departments live as a function in the corner of the room away. 00:22:47.528 --> 00:22:55.808 And I really wanna bring more people to the conversation so that they embrace it and understand that it's a role that everybody fulfills in an organisation. 00:22:55.868 --> 00:23:00.939 Everyone has an input, a role can get into it, whether you're front office, back office, like I said, it doesn't really matter. 00:23:01.719 --> 00:23:03.699 But it, becomes part of the thing. 00:23:03.699 --> 00:23:07.028 'cause for me, CX isn't a function, it's cult, it's your organisational culture. 00:23:07.509 --> 00:23:10.148 that's what it's, the, it flows all the way through. 00:23:10.598 --> 00:23:14.588 So it's changing the conversation, bringing it more to the middle. 00:23:14.919 --> 00:23:27.818 Helping people like me who were CX leaders or like us who are CX leaders in organisations with ideas and ways of framing stuff that help them to get stuff done is the key thing for me. 00:23:27.828 --> 00:23:28.028 Yeah. 00:23:28.328 --> 00:23:38.679 value and viewpoints, helping them to connect the dots between, we've improved satisfaction, but actually it's got revenue impact and how do I express that And how do I talk about it? 00:23:39.398 --> 00:23:48.459 how, do I get cybersecurity team involved and interested in why they should be thinking about CX and, space and all those things and, elements of it. 00:23:48.459 --> 00:23:55.239 So bringing that variety of guests different viewpoints together, has been amazing for me. 00:23:55.239 --> 00:23:57.669 And then the third bit, just as for me. 00:23:58.163 --> 00:23:58.943 It's the learning. 00:24:01.104 --> 00:24:06.354 when I once had a friend who was a coach who said, when I'm coaching customers or co coaching clients, I'm often coaching myself. 00:24:06.683 --> 00:24:14.513 And in this process I'm interviewing guests and asking questions and I have a view and whatever, but I'm learning so much all the time from other people. 00:24:15.443 --> 00:24:18.624 and it creates new ideas and content stuff. 00:24:18.624 --> 00:24:21.564 So it's a great process and I love it. 00:24:21.564 --> 00:24:33.384 It's one of my favorite days in the calendar is when we get into the studio, hit record on those cameras, get the guests sat down, make a cup of tea, and just, have a great conversation. 00:24:33.743 --> 00:24:34.163 I love it. 00:24:35.144 --> 00:24:38.864 And I think it's, you, talk about the tech failures a bit, right? 00:24:39.644 --> 00:24:41.263 oh, you guys keep me busy. 00:24:41.294 --> 00:24:44.983 You guys are always finding ways to, to give me a new challenge. 00:24:44.983 --> 00:24:45.493 And I love it. 00:24:45.584 --> 00:24:46.034 I love it. 00:24:46.903 --> 00:24:55.753 there's, always a surprise, but I think it's been incredibly brave of you guys to, attempt to do as many episodes as you have in person, right? 00:24:56.233 --> 00:25:03.374 There's a lot of podcasters out there who will settle for the remote version of what they're doing, and there's nothing wrong with that. 00:25:03.433 --> 00:25:09.824 Absolutely nothing wrong with that remote version, but I do believe you get a higher quality of conversation. 00:25:10.334 --> 00:25:13.634 Higher quality of output from doing it in person. 00:25:14.683 --> 00:25:24.284 but I also think there's a misconception out there that a lot of people think, if you go to a professional podcasting studio, there's no tech problems, then it'll be nice and easy and simple. 00:25:24.824 --> 00:25:26.003 And actually, 00:25:26.304 --> 00:25:26.423 case. 00:25:27.584 --> 00:25:29.354 yeah, a hundred percent. 00:25:29.354 --> 00:25:44.173 So the irony of all of this is I've helped you guys through doing your in-person podcast, for the majority of these episodes, which I've never run an in-person podcast, so I'm making things up as I go along, things that I know, things that I've learned. 00:25:45.044 --> 00:25:54.104 And then the irony is for one of my current clients is I've, actually agreed to horse, I was telling you guys before the episode, I've agreed to host on the client's behalf as a one-off. 00:25:54.104 --> 00:25:56.413 It's a passion project as well as a client. 00:25:57.584 --> 00:26:00.223 And so I'm going in and, setting up. 00:26:00.554 --> 00:26:03.074 I don't even have the luxury of a, podcast studio, right? 00:26:03.074 --> 00:26:10.963 I'm having to set up kit and equipment myself for the recording and everything that's going through my mind is, don't do that. 00:26:10.993 --> 00:26:11.773 'cause that didn't work. 00:26:11.834 --> 00:26:13.693 Don't do that m'cause that fell apart. 00:26:13.753 --> 00:26:15.163 Make sure you've got some redundancy. 00:26:15.163 --> 00:26:16.614 I'm going in with five cameras. 00:26:16.913 --> 00:26:17.203 Yeah. 00:26:17.273 --> 00:26:17.564 Yeah. 00:26:17.683 --> 00:26:26.054 I'm aligning five cameras, three different audio sources, and I'm like, yeah, this is, I've got one opportunity to record this and I'm gonna make sure it happens. 00:26:26.324 --> 00:26:33.013 So I think it's a learning curve for all of us and I've thoroughly enjoyed being a small part behind the scenes for you guys. 00:26:34.193 --> 00:26:35.334 what you said just reminded me. 00:26:35.334 --> 00:26:38.153 I was telling my nephew this story, who's, my nephew just died, DJing. 00:26:38.574 --> 00:26:45.713 I used to DJ back in the day, and I was telling him about the fact that I used to carry a box of spares fuses, like speaker parts. 00:26:45.864 --> 00:26:58.824 I remember at one gig we were playing and the speaker blew, and my, mate used still playing and I've got the speaker on its side, opened it up, got a soldiering eye in and trying to fix this speaker in the moment at this party in the back end. 00:26:59.219 --> 00:26:59.804 I love it. 00:26:59.993 --> 00:27:01.463 just, yeah, and you just, yeah. 00:27:01.463 --> 00:27:02.693 Things like that happen, don't they? 00:27:02.723 -->

00:27:03.804 You just how you deal with it. 00:27:04.828 --> 00:27:10.169 But it's even just down to little things like saying, like you would in a normal conversation. 00:27:10.378 --> 00:27:13.378 Now I get to see the transcript on the back end when we're all edited, right? 00:27:13.739 --> 00:27:18.611 And the amount of ums I have to take out, so that the words don't have the word, in the middle. 00:27:18.898 --> 00:27:20.939 It's just those tiny little things sometimes as well. 00:27:20.939 --> 00:27:21.358 All those. 00:27:21.611 --> 00:27:28.469 So you'll see when I sit doing my podcast, I put myself on mute or I don't say, I keep my mouth shut. 00:27:28.919 --> 00:27:32.368 and I still say, and I've had to train myself to do that as much as I can. 00:27:32.578 --> 00:27:34.078 'cause it makes my life easier on the end. 00:27:35.428 --> 00:27:36.657 Yeah, that's a good tip actually. 00:27:37.018 --> 00:27:40.948 because it, it's very easy to fall into that track, especially when you're in person. 00:27:40.948 --> 00:27:58.438 I think it because you, forget the cameras are on and we're, recording a conversation where we're so into the conversation that when you just gotta remind yourself not to do the s and I'm sure I'm one of the culprits, Paul, that you're having to constantly, the ums from. 00:27:58.438 --> 00:28:06.807 But it's, yeah, it's those kind of habits you wanna ideally remove then, you're not having to, interrupt the audio. 00:28:07.258 --> 00:28:13.587 for those that are listening, I think it's, these kind of tips, like this are so useful, to adopt and learn. 00:28:13.587 --> 00:28:18.208 And then, ultimately we want to try and deliver a high quality. 00:28:18.538 --> 00:28:19.198 Podcast. 00:28:19.198 --> 00:28:21.718 And that's the reason why we've done the in-person thing. 00:28:22.377 --> 00:28:30.897 actually it's been in some ways because of the tech problems we've had with mics and, the phone stop recording and things like that. 00:28:31.587 --> 00:28:34.048 had all sorts of things happen pretty much every episode. 00:28:34.048 --> 00:28:36.387 I'm sure there's been something that's gone wrong. 00:28:37.228 --> 00:28:38.488 but that wasn't expected. 00:28:38.488 --> 00:28:43.347 Like when we went into this, we were thinking, yes, as you've said, in person, we're in control of it. 00:28:43.678 --> 00:28:46.258 It's gonna be more reliable, the audio's gonna be better. 00:28:46.738 --> 00:28:51.387 But actually you could argue that doing a video call like this, it's consistent. 00:28:52.258 --> 00:28:58.317 but you miss out on the, kind of, the engagement you have with the person that you are speaking with. 00:28:58.317 --> 00:28:58.574 I think 00:28:58.874 --> 00:28:59.084 Yeah, 00:28:59.157 --> 00:29:00.238 bit that you miss out on. 00:29:00.238 --> 00:29:01.407 So it's 00:29:01.544 --> 00:29:01.933 agree. 00:29:02.248 --> 00:29:03.597 that we've been able to do it in person. 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:04.419 Yeah, definitely. 00:29:04.419 --> 00:29:08.259 And I think the other thing that I've enjoyed is the guest preparation side. 00:29:09.398 --> 00:29:11.108 we don't script the podcast. 00:29:11.108 --> 00:29:14.378 It's never about, here are the questions we're gonna ask you, give us these answers. 00:29:14.828 --> 00:29:19.388 We start with an idea and an angle and two questions, and then we roll from there. 00:29:19.423 --> 00:29:26.288 So it's, all very, natural conversation, which is what we wanted to, but actually what the, the. 00:29:26.288 --> 00:29:34.509 bit about the in-person that really works is because we've done that upfront preparation with our guest email or a Zoom call or whatever. 00:29:34.659 --> 00:29:38.169 When we get into the room, there's chemistry already there, and 00:29:38.249 --> 00:29:38.489 Yeah, 00:29:38.788 --> 00:29:40.868 carries on through to the rest of the podcast. 00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:45.608 So you're not like warming the car up in the cold, on the podcast. 00:29:45.608 --> 00:29:47.409 It's already warm and you're, ready to flow. 00:29:47.409 --> 00:29:49.148 So yeah, I think that works really good. 00:29:50.338 --> 00:30:05.068 I think it's, I think it's a nice balance for you guys, but I also wonder how hard is it to manage, customer workload, driving a pipeline as you run your own business, right? 00:30:05.068 --> 00:30:10.229 Like you drive your own pipeline, your market and your sales, all the stuff that comes with all of that personal life. 00:30:10.979 --> 00:30:15.223 And then managing to get there in person, along with managing two other diaries. 00:30:15.328 --> 00:30:16.949 'cause there's three people involved in this. 00:30:16.949 --> 00:30:20.459 It's not even just two, it's, there's a third complication there as well. 00:30:20.939 --> 00:30:22.469 It's, been tough at moments, right? 00:30:23.667 --> 00:30:32.877 yeah, I think from a, it's, we've been quite fortunate actually, because I think, obviously because we're doing our own thing, there's flexibility there. 00:30:33.778 --> 00:30:38.518 when you're in full-time employment, it's very, it's, difficult make that time during the day. 00:30:38.518 --> 00:30:40.228 So I think that flexibility's helped. 00:30:40.498 --> 00:30:41.248 We've always tried. 00:30:41.397 --> 00:30:44.938 As flexible as we can with our guests, much as we can. 00:30:45.897 --> 00:30:50.248 v a's come down to London when I've not been able to go up and vice versa. 00:30:51.057 --> 00:30:54.688 I've coincided that podcast with a customer meeting. 00:30:54.688 --> 00:31:00.117 So we just kind of balance things off and as Vinay said, it's for us, it's one one day a month. 00:31:00.478 --> 00:31:02.667 We try and plan it a couple of weeks in advance. 00:31:02.877 --> 00:31:07.978 so generally, so far we've not had any cancellations or anything ever even over, I think we've 00:31:08.183 --> 00:31:08.423 no. 00:31:09.864 --> 00:31:14.189 what it does do for me is I think I might,

I've shared this story, I might have even said it on the podcast, if I have. 00:31:14.874 --> 00:31:17.513 I'm sorry, I'm gonna repeat it again, but I'm sure I've spent it. 00:31:17.544 --> 00:31:18.294 Said it to you too. 00:31:19.403 --> 00:31:22.584 My daughter, once looked at me and said she went, dad, I figured it out. 00:31:23.003 --> 00:31:25.284 She said, you're like a Chrome browser. 00:31:25.673 --> 00:31:27.384 You keep opening up all these tabs. 00:31:27.773 --> 00:31:31.523 And some of them are still circling and loading'cause I'm constantly everything. 00:31:31.921 --> 00:31:38.124 cause I kept saying to her, every time you interrupt me and ask me something, it's now another thing on Milia goes, I just open, I keep opening new tabs. 00:31:38.513 --> 00:31:43.703 So I feel like I have this, when we first started it was like another tab that was open that was called podcast. 00:31:44.423 --> 00:31:50.124 And so I'm continually thinking about do we get on to talk, what's the angle, what's the idea? 00:31:50.124 --> 00:31:52.673 And there's always a, thing that worrying around in the background. 00:31:53.064 --> 00:32:05.019 But I think the nature of running a business is just that you are like a Chrome browser with a bunch of tabs open, director, finance director, your director, your sales director, you're all of those things. 00:32:05.409 --> 00:32:06.969 So I think it's, it forms part of that. 00:32:07.868 --> 00:32:10.298 but, doing our own thing has been helpful. 00:32:10.749 --> 00:32:21.459 I think our flexibility towards each other, I think, and this is where partnership really comes in, that understanding of each other, flexibility to travel up and down, work things out between us. 00:32:22.148 --> 00:32:40.298 we have a quite a relaxed attitude towards, to that, to, between the two of us, we know, even when it comes to paying invoices, we, we work that out between us and, we've not really, we've not really had to tackle anything too sticky or a bit of a problem. 00:32:40.388 --> 00:32:45.669 But yeah, I think from the offset, what was really important is we set out from the beginning. 00:32:46.239 --> 00:32:47.588 Here's how we're gonna approach it. 00:32:47.679 --> 00:32:48.878 Here's the style that we want to have. 00:32:48.878 --> 00:33:00.848 And we just set, I guess if we look back on it now, I don't, I didn't, don't think we knew this at the time, but if we look back on it now, what we probably set out was a set of design principles that we've just stuck to and said, this is how we'll approach it. 00:33:01.209 --> 00:33:10.479 And if I was gonna do this again, and if anyone was looking about doing a podcast again, I would say to them, take the time to just get your, what's the objective of the podcast? 00:33:11.469 --> 00:33:13.568 what do you want your audience to get from it? 00:33:13.568 --> 00:33:15.038 What are your design principles? 00:33:15.038 --> 00:33:17.679 And no non-negotiables about what you want it to be

like. 00:33:18.068 --> 00:33:23.888 And if you don't have that, if you don't have that documented down, then it's, then you're gonna be all over the place. 00:33:23.888 --> 00:33:27.608 I think getting that documented down at the beginning is really, important. 00:33:27.608 --> 00:33:38.229 And we spent time backward and forth on a shared Google Doc, just Writing ideas and we'd do this and we'd do that, and then we went, no, we, we always wanted to make it in person. 00:33:38.709 --> 00:33:42.759 For all the reasons we've described, we're quite happy to be London or Birmingham. 00:33:43.778 --> 00:33:47.108 it doesn't always have to have a guest, but we'd love to have a guest most of the time. 00:33:48.548 --> 00:33:48.848 Yeah. 00:33:48.848 --> 00:33:52.358 and I think we've just split the responsibility of finding guests and stuff. 00:33:52.689 --> 00:33:59.138 I think I'm, now constantly just looking and listening out for interesting people and conversations and go love them on my podcast. 00:33:59.348 --> 00:34:00.818 I'd love them to get on my podcast. 00:34:01.058 --> 00:34:04.118 I've got a list of people who I want to get on. 00:34:04.989 --> 00:34:10.389 some of them a dream shoot that, I won't never, ever get. 00:34:11.228 --> 00:34:14.798 but I think a lot of them will be able to get on and I really enjoy talking to them. 00:34:15.768 --> 00:34:19.309 I think once you've been running a podcast for a while, that does naturally come. 00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:21.349 I think it's a big worry for a lot of people at the beginning. 00:34:21.349 --> 00:34:22.608 If you can have guests on the podcast. 00:34:22.969 --> 00:34:24.228 I remember worrying about it. 00:34:24.648 --> 00:34:30.108 and I remember having to do a lot of called outreach to people so I could, mine's weekly, right? 00:34:30.978 --> 00:34:33.918 so it's imagine, what you guys are doing times four. 00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:36.688 And that's, where I was at. 00:34:36.688 --> 00:34:39.478 And it was, I, wanted to be like five, six weeks ahead. 00:34:39.478 --> 00:34:42.719 So I needed to get half a dozen in the bank before I start to release. 00:34:43.048 --> 00:34:46.498 And I think at one point I was seven months ahead on my release schedule. 00:34:46.918 --> 00:34:47.909 That's calmed down a bit. 00:34:47.909 --> 00:34:51.239 Now I'm, probably back to about six or seven weeks again, thank goodness. 00:34:51.389 --> 00:35:04.918 But, I think what was originally a lot of called emails called LinkedIn messages to the right people has now turned into, oh, I know someone who'd be a great guest on the Show, or You should meet this person over here. 00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:08.344 Or, my podcast is not, it's not well known. 00:35:08.458 --> 00:35:10.139 Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna blow my own trumpet. 00:35:11.068 --> 00:35:11.818 it's, pretty niche. 00:35:12.034 --> 00:35:17.608 But like the people who do enjoy it are big champions of it and will actively go and find me guests. 00:35:17.608 --> 00:35:25.858 So I find them dropping into me and it, I think after a little while, you guys have what, 10 episodes deep now coming up this month, gone. 00:35:27.938 --> 00:35:28.358 11. 00:35:31.693 --> 00:35:31.873 if 00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:33.668 There you go. 00:35:34.664 --> 00:35:42.074 I think, it's now probably for you guys, reached a bit of a perpetual motion, right? 00:35:42.074 --> 00:35:49.244 Like it, it'll self sustain with the guests a little bit and you'll find people come to you as opposed to having to go and hunt everybody down. 00:35:49.244 --> 00:35:51.673 But your reputation starts to precede you a bit as well. 00:35:51.673 --> 00:35:53.114 And there's substance there. 00:35:53.114 --> 00:35:55.123 You people can go away and go, oh, Yeah. 00:35:55.123 --> 00:35:56.594 These guys have been going for a while now. 00:35:56.623 --> 00:35:56.833 Yeah. 00:35:56.833 --> 00:36:01.853 Oh, actually, whereas some before that there might have been a bit I dunno. 00:36:02.153 --> 00:36:10.898 been, it's actually been also a really great I do a lot of speaking, a lot of speakers talk about having a book as a big business card, and it's a way to get stuff in front of clients. 00:36:11.289 --> 00:36:11.978 This has been great. 00:36:12.188 --> 00:36:18.518 if I share nothing else with a client or prospective your prospect, or even just somebody I meet at a networking event, I'm like, oh, by the way, I run a podcast. 00:36:18.518 --> 00:36:19.239 Oh, what do you run it on? 00:36:19.389 --> 00:36:20.108 Here it is. 00:36:20.108 --> 00:36:20.798 Take a look at it. 00:36:20.978 --> 00:36:35.918 And it's a great way of people getting a feel me and for Rick be, and what we talk about a bit of exposure ideas that we have in a really non-intrusive way that they can just get that. 00:36:36.197 --> 00:36:36.487 Yeah. 00:36:37.449 --> 00:36:50.289 I think different to a book, like the limitations of a book is when you read text stuff a page, you read it in your own voice, or you imagine the author's voice words can mean different things and different pronunciations, the different way you past it and stuff. 00:36:51.068 --> 00:36:55.086 a podcast, you've got the full thing, you've got the visual auditory, and you've got the kinesthetic. 00:36:55.358 --> 00:36:59.708 You've got all three, forms of, emotional connection. 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:09.954 And get much more of the, essence what people are talking about and the message, and you're not left down to interpreting what somebody may have written or 00:37:09.974 --> 00:37:10.094 Yeah. 00:37:10.164 --> 00:37:10.434 written. 00:37:11.112 --> 00:37:12.702 I think it's the rawness of it, right? 00:37:12.702 --> 00:37:14.262 As you've just pointed out. 00:37:14.262 --> 00:37:20.202 What people get to see is, unedited most parts. 00:37:21.552 --> 00:37:24.807 but ultimately they're getting to see the real you in terms, 00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:25.639 Yeah. 00:37:25.722 --> 00:37:30.943 is

edited, it's been reviewed, there's a ghost writer, most likely they're not really getting to see 00:37:31.014 --> 00:37:31.313 Yeah. 00:37:31.614 --> 00:37:31.842 about. 00:37:32.112 --> 00:37:36.943 Yes, it, they get your view on whatever topic you are on. 00:37:37.273 --> 00:37:42.822 But in this kind of conversation, I think it's quite, for me, I feel quite exposed, like in all honesty. 00:37:43.032 --> 00:37:52.663 that's how I feel like, know Vinay, you are more accustomed to, and being able to speak in front of a, bigger audience. 00:37:53.112 --> 00:37:54.882 That's, still quite alien to me. 00:37:55.753 --> 00:37:57.043 I don't do that as often. 00:37:58.182 --> 00:38:04.693 stepping into this, honestly, it is outta my comfort zone, but I'm pushing myself because I think you've got to. 00:38:05.103 --> 00:38:06.362 First of all, try different things. 00:38:06.362 --> 00:38:10.233 As you've said, it's one thing, having great ideas, execution is another. 00:38:10.233 --> 00:38:12.242 And that's what I think we've been trying to do. 00:38:12.902 --> 00:38:15.663 the other thing I wanted to mention actually is the guest thing. 00:38:15.992 --> 00:38:24.512 I, find this really interesting because I, feel like we've approached a lot of people and pretty much everybody's always said yes because everybody loves to be on a podcast. 00:38:25.233 --> 00:38:36.152 I find, and the most interesting one for me was, I dunno if you know a guy called Mark Sumner who's a, he's a technology recruitment guy. 00:38:37.262 --> 00:38:39.333 he's got a decent following on LinkedIn. 00:38:40.052 --> 00:38:47.282 anyway, he met Steven Bartlett at an event and he just said to him, look, would you mind Jo joining me for my podcast? 00:38:47.342 --> 00:38:48.632 This was last year, by the way. 00:38:48.632 --> 00:38:50.583 So this was, he was still pretty big back then. 00:38:50.972 --> 00:38:51.572 And he said, yes. 00:38:52.768 --> 00:38:53.367 And he said yes. 00:38:53.367 --> 00:38:57.757 And he is now got a conversation that he's got content around and he's spoken to Steven Bartlett. 00:38:57.777 --> 00:39:04.797 So I think going back to your point, Vinay, think we can try and aim as high as we'd like because actually most people are open to it. 00:39:04.827 --> 00:39:07.248 'cause it's, kind of exposure for them as well, isn't it, in a 00:39:08.403 --> 00:39:09.634 I'd wholeheartedly agree. 00:39:09.693 --> 00:39:10.653 I'd wholeheartedly agree. 00:39:10.653 --> 00:39:17.164 There are a couple of guests I've had on my Show who I fanboyed over massively, not, as big as Stephen Bartlett, I must say. 00:39:18.543 --> 00:39:22.864 but one, one of which was Bob Berg, who Vinay will know definitely. 00:39:24.429 --> 00:39:28.143 the, instigator of the, famous phrase, all things being equal. 00:39:28.204 --> 00:39:30.304 And I have to get that bit in'cause that's the bit everybody misses. 00:39:30.304 --> 00:39:31.534 He gets really annoyed with that. 00:39:31.713 -->

00:39:33.543 Bob, if you're listening, I got your buddy. 00:39:34.324 --> 00:39:35.434 all things being equal. 00:39:35.759 --> 00:39:39.449 People will buy from other people that they know, and trust. 00:39:39.838 --> 00:39:46.588 And I lived by that for so many years and somebody tagged Bob in my comments on LinkedIn and I thought I was being really cheeky. 00:39:46.588 --> 00:39:48.478 I was like, Bob, would you like to be on my podcast? 00:39:48.478 --> 00:39:50.789 And when he responded and he went, yeah, I'd love to. 00:39:51.329 --> 00:39:53.039 And he was a phenomenal guest. 00:39:53.128 --> 00:39:54.599 And I've done that a couple of times. 00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:05.518 I've had people who I never thought, Sarah Templeton, who's now my charity partner for my podcast and we're working together came because I was blown away by the book that, that I was listening to. 00:40:05.969 --> 00:40:11.099 And I had the audacity to send her an email and thank her for it and ask if she'd be on my podcast. 00:40:11.248 --> 00:40:12.059 And she said, yeah. 00:40:12.568 --> 00:40:14.849 And so they're just people like us. 00:40:14.878 --> 00:40:17.878 They're all, publicity is good publicity. 00:40:17.878 --> 00:40:19.498 And I think that's, fair game. 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.438 But I think this leads into a really interesting point. 00:40:22.438 --> 00:40:31.168 So Vinay, we were discussing before, getting prepared for your podcast and what to have in mind before you get going. 00:40:31.168 --> 00:40:35.219 And question I ask a lot of people is, what do you wanna get outta your podcast? 00:40:35.713 --> 00:40:42.974 And for a lot of people the stock answer tends to be, we're gonna get a lot of views and we're gonna get sponsored now. 00:40:43.844 --> 00:40:46.184 I know you guys started off with a sponsor as well, right? 00:40:46.393 --> 00:40:48.164 and I know it's great to have a sponsor. 00:40:49.423 --> 00:40:53.833 it's, it obviously any, revenue that helps pay for the podcast is brilliant. 00:40:54.494 --> 00:41:03.764 Not to say that you shouldn't aim to get a sponsor at some point, but I, always push people away from that a little bit at the beginning because it's not realistic for most people. 00:41:04.873 --> 00:41:09.704 you probably, especially if it's a B2B podcast, you're not gonna get thousands and thousands of downloads. 00:41:09.704 --> 00:41:11.773 You're probably gonna get a couple of hundred eventually. 00:41:12.614 --> 00:41:15.884 But, that's gonna preclude a lot of sponsorship. 00:41:16.483 --> 00:41:27.914 So I always encourage people to have a, good understanding of what it is that they want to get out of their podcast for their business and for themselves, as well as just, giving good content. 00:41:28.994 --> 00:41:32.143 and, I'd like both of you to have a viewpoint on that'cause I would like to know what. 00:41:32.503 --> 00:41:36.043 What is it that you guys feel like you've gotten out of running your own podcast? 00:41:36.494 --> 00:41:39.168 From a business perspective and ROI personally, I dunno. 00:41:40.023 --> 00:41:40.293 yeah. 00:41:40.534 --> 00:41:42.543 so for me, it's dead simple. 00:41:42.903 --> 00:41:47.639 a mentor that I had early in my speaking career, one said to me, Vinay it's not about you. 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:48.079 It's about them. 00:41:49.523 --> 00:41:55.554 And so I've had this mantra since my mid twenties of it's about them. 00:41:55.824 --> 00:41:56.844 what's the value? 00:41:56.963 --> 00:41:59.123 What am I, it's not about the views I get. 00:41:59.123 --> 00:42:00.534 It's not about the applause I get. 00:42:00.534 --> 00:42:01.373 It's not about the feedback. 00:42:01.373 --> 00:42:02.244 It's not about me. 00:42:02.664 --> 00:42:07.233 It's how do I, get these amazing ideas out of this person's head? 00:42:08.378 --> 00:42:13.869 In a way that adds value to the people that are watching, like questions, the diet, the conversation. 00:42:13.869 --> 00:42:19.989 What would be an interesting thing, it's never about, oh, this would be a really good clip if we could clip it and then we could put it on social media. 00:42:19.989 --> 00:42:21.068 'cause I'll get loads of views. 00:42:21.489 --> 00:42:22.478 that's not the point. 00:42:22.929 --> 00:42:24.938 So it's always about the audience. 00:42:24.998 --> 00:42:30.039 When I speak, it's the same thing when I'm constructed a keynote, it's what do I want the audience to feel? 00:42:30.097 --> 00:42:31.449 Where do I want'em to go next? 00:42:31.628 --> 00:42:33.608 What value do I want them to walk away from? 00:42:33.608 --> 00:42:35.918 So that's my overarching design principle. 00:42:36.338 --> 00:42:39.489 And the second thing is it's about progression, not perfection. 00:42:40.659 --> 00:42:42.548 in everything we design, Yeah. 00:42:42.608 --> 00:42:48.969 look, we've talked about the fun, the funny things about tech going wrong, but it's never about having the perfect conversation either. 00:42:48.998 --> 00:42:59.139 It is just about having a, good natural conversation that people at the end of the conversation feel like it's been a 10 minute podcast, not a 45 minute one. 00:42:59.469 --> 00:43:03.188 They come away with one or two great ideas and they can actually do something with it. 00:43:04.179 --> 00:43:06.818 that for me the important thing. 00:43:07.284 --> 00:43:17.469 And as I said before, the, kind of the, benefit to me or the business benefit is, I just use it as a big business card to me being able to say, I've got a podcast, 00:43:17.768 --> 00:43:18.059 Yeah. 00:43:18.083 --> 00:43:18.983 look at what we do. 00:43:20.003 --> 00:43:20.963 you don't, know me yet. 00:43:20.963 --> 00:43:35.364 It's about building trust, you jump onto, answer, in, in, my work, I talk a lot about the, trust equation from David Maister, credibility, reliability plus intimacy over self-orientation. 00:43:35.634 --> 00:43:39.204 And I think people focus really hard on

credibility and reliability. 00:43:39.864 --> 00:43:41.393 do I believe you can say what you can do? 00:43:41.393 --> 00:43:42.443 So here are my credentials. 00:43:42.443 --> 00:43:47.724 Here's the clients I've worked with, here's the experience I've had, And then, demonstrating reliability. 00:43:47.724 --> 00:43:48.623 'cause they can do the thing. 00:43:49.733 --> 00:43:57.954 that they often miss out and what organisations also miss or don't spend enough energy on is intimacy, which is, do you really understand me? 00:43:57.954 --> 00:44:02.123 How do you make the customer the viewer feel like you, I see you, I understand you. 00:44:02.918 --> 00:44:05.798 I know that you ma I might wanna make you feel like you matter. 00:44:06.728 --> 00:44:09.878 and the self-orientation piece is, it's never on our agenda. 00:44:10.869 --> 00:44:14.409 this is not about what we get out of it, and it's not just about purely what you get out of it. 00:44:14.469 --> 00:44:18.009 There's, we're in that balance between this is a, win-win. 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:20.679 that's the framing of the whole thing. 00:44:22.233 --> 00:44:22.503 Yeah. 00:44:22.833 --> 00:44:24.512 to be honest, I couldn't put it any better. 00:44:24.842 --> 00:44:27.452 I think just on the sponsorship side, that's an interesting one. 00:44:27.452 --> 00:44:34.353 When we, as you've said, we into this, we had novel VX who supported us, for the first few episodes. 00:44:35.702 --> 00:44:37.443 Clearly we were still very new. 00:44:37.443 --> 00:44:40.713 So I was trying to, still trying to build a bit of an audience around that. 00:44:41.072 --> 00:44:53.762 And I think we, realised actually what we probably perhaps wanna revisit this once we've we're a little bit better established and also think you can have sponsorship that aligns to the message too, right? 00:44:53.762 --> 00:44:57.932 So it doesn't, it's not necessarily about advertising for advertising's sake. 00:44:58.652 --> 00:45:05.432 if we started, being sponsored by, Gillette, not really gonna work for us, is it? 00:45:06.152 --> 00:45:09.393 not gonna be promote that's not, doesn't really tie in our, 00:45:10.398 --> 00:45:10.619 Huh. 00:45:11.103 --> 00:45:11.793 yeah, exactly. 00:45:11.793 --> 00:45:17.253 So it's, so I, think there's, I'm not against sponsorship. 00:45:17.253 --> 00:45:18.992 I think sponsorship can really help. 00:45:19.012 --> 00:45:29.572 Take the podcast to that next level because funding can genuinely help maybe, bringing in those, that, that, may cost money to bring on. 00:45:30.802 --> 00:45:39.353 definitely something for the future that we'll continue to look at, but it shouldn't really shape the message or the vision as Vinay, articulated there. 00:45:39.713 --> 00:45:47.483 I think that the fact that we're trying to deliver value through this, continues to be the, key driver for what we're trying to do. 00:45:48.994 --> 00:46:06.833 the other parallel that I'll draw off just on what you've said

there b, is that, social media platforms first launched, when Facebook Wears first came out, when Instagram, it was organic, it was authentic and people loved using it, and the moment that the, those platforms tried to monetise it, it started to lose some of what it is. 00:46:06.833 --> 00:46:12.414 And I see some of these podcasts where, there's an advert every 15 minutes. 00:46:13.554 --> 00:46:14.423 the rest is politic. 00:46:14.423 --> 00:46:15.233 No, nothing wrong with it. 00:46:15.474 --> 00:46:21.023 obviously it's a business, but you've got Fuse mentioned, hue on clothing, you've got all these different. 00:46:21.789 --> 00:46:26.889 Things mentioned and, it, just feels a bit forced and unnatural almost. 00:46:27.909 --> 00:46:34.998 if you had, the TV, and I dunno about you, on Spotify, I just hit the 15 second forward thing and never listened to the advert anyway because it just, it, 00:46:35.157 --> 00:46:36.057 that's the thing, isn't it? 00:46:36.597 --> 00:46:41.757 if you, even if you've got a, if you got a sponsor, have the option to forward this bet. 00:46:41.788 --> 00:46:47.878 Like you, you almost ha pre-war them on the, on YouTube that this is actually an advert and then they can just forward it through. 00:46:48.838 --> 00:46:49.527 I totally get it. 00:46:49.527 --> 00:46:59.603 But I think genuinely though, if your sponsor can, be linked to the overall conversation, then, it just feels more organic, more 00:46:59.903 --> 00:47:00.193 yeah. 00:47:00.568 --> 00:47:00.838 Yeah, 00:47:01.378 --> 00:47:04.737 to a point where you are, to sell a Rubik's cube or whatever. 00:47:04.737 --> 00:47:07.827 It just doesn't, that doesn't hit well with the audience. 00:47:08.038 --> 00:47:09.807 there's gotta, there's gotta be a link somewhere 00:47:09.849 --> 00:47:10.659 Gotta be a purpose. 00:47:10.659 --> 00:47:11.199 It's got a link 00:47:11.219 --> 00:47:19.168 and I think that's why I went the route of getting a charity partner as opposed to a sponsor for my podcast, is because it's something that I'm deeply aligned with. 00:47:21.268 --> 00:47:22.798 it's a, great initiative. 00:47:23.518 --> 00:47:25.528 it's a nice thing to do, which is brilliant. 00:47:25.528 --> 00:47:27.958 I love doing nice things for change now and again. 00:47:28.889 --> 00:47:38.309 but also because I'm ADHD and my charity partner is ADHD, Liberty, my son's ADHD, a lot of my clients are neurodiverse in some way, shape, or form. 00:47:38.518 --> 00:47:43.079 So it, absolutely, and I think, so you've gotta apply that to your sponsor, right? 00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.688 It's gotta be the same cut from the same cloth. 00:47:47.159 --> 00:48:06.659 but to be controversial, to be really controversial, and I say this to all of my, clients and prospective clients and on all of my network, I don't think the real values in the episode itself, I don't think that's where the value is, because 95% of your audience are never gonna listen to your episode unless you're Stephen Bartlett. 00:48:07.684 --> 00:48:13.978 I think the value is in the moments within that episode that people would never otherwise see, and that's why. 00:48:14.489 --> 00:48:17.818 I don't advertise myself as being a, podcast editor. 00:48:17.909 --> 00:48:19.498 I hate the phrase podcast editor. 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:23.369 I do edit podcasts, but it's about repurposing the content. 00:48:23.998 --> 00:48:28.378 For me, it's about, how can I take that two minutes? 00:48:28.864 --> 00:48:31.869 The, Vinay and Iqbal were discussing this tiny, this moment. 00:48:32.338 --> 00:48:33.449 That's genius. 00:48:33.628 --> 00:48:35.998 And people will never see it if it's hidden in that episode. 00:48:35.998 --> 00:48:38.159 Or even if they do watch the episode, do you know what? 00:48:38.369 --> 00:48:41.789 They're probably answering emails at the same time and they've miss it. 00:48:42.208 --> 00:48:47.009 So for me it's that, that, I'm scrolling because I'm bored. 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:53.489 I've just gotten home and we're waiting for the kids to arrive home from school, and I'm gonna have a flick through LinkedIn and, oh, what's this? 00:48:54.088 --> 00:48:56.938 And I've captured your attention for 90 seconds. 00:48:56.938 --> 00:49:03.599 Even that, that for me is the real benefit to a lot of people and being able to tag. 00:49:05.068 --> 00:49:12.028 Other businesses, organisations, and guests in that to rent their audience and merge your audience with theirs temporarily. 00:49:12.418 --> 00:49:19.588 I think that's beautiful and the amount of great conversations I've seen come out of that practice is just next level. 00:49:20.188 --> 00:49:24.719 I don't think there's much else out there that, that has the ability to bring people together like that. 00:49:27.034 --> 00:49:27.324 Yeah. 00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:27.998 Yeah. 00:49:27.998 --> 00:49:31.478 I think, it, it is funny as you were saying that. 00:49:31.478 --> 00:49:34.898 because I was, again, listening to a podcast, ironically, and we were, they were 00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:35.728 What now? 00:49:36.248 --> 00:49:37.268 yeah, no, not right now? 00:49:38.969 --> 00:49:39.389 Geez. 00:49:39.398 --> 00:49:44.108 I think, yeah, it's Gottman's Trust, trust Revival method. 00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:48.608 And, about trust happens slowly in small moments. 00:49:48.969 --> 00:49:54.909 And I think what you described there is, exactly in the same way as if I delivered a 45 minute keynote. 00:49:54.909 --> 00:49:59.918 Somebody might not remember all of it, but they remember a moment within it that really resonated with them. 00:50:00.309 --> 00:50:03.248 And it's the collection of those little moments that build the trust. 00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:05.317 With your audience over time. 00:50:05.409 --> 00:50:06.579 So you're spot on. 00:50:07.208 --> 00:50:15.789 that's the gift, that's the skill and the gift that you have of helping us find those small moments because we're just in the

moment having the conversation, right? 00:50:16.449 --> 00:50:31.599 are helping us chop it up and distribute little moments, those micro moments in a way that people can consume then they consume them, and I do it again and again and they build up a picture these little moments rather than listening to one to end episode. 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:33.398 So yeah, that's a really nice way of putting it. 00:50:33.943 --> 00:50:36.733 On the short form, I think you're, you are completely spot on. 00:50:37.693 --> 00:50:44.054 of, that's, those are the bits that people actually see when they talk to us about our podcast. 00:50:44.054 --> 00:50:53.594 It's because they've seen, a, snippet of a conversation, and then we've seen our guests, replay those back or share those across to their network. 00:50:54.313 --> 00:51:00.943 because the, listening to an hour long or 40 to 60 minutes isn't gonna be for everybody. 00:51:01.123 --> 00:51:02.264 we completely get that. 00:51:02.744 --> 00:51:10.333 it's really trying to fi we're trying to figure out whether there, there's gonna be those moments of spark where, we know that. 00:51:10.338 --> 00:51:12.378 That's the content that we wanna get across. 00:51:12.829 --> 00:51:19.849 And, Paul, of course, you, are, you're helping us uncover this because we've done one episode, we're moving on and planning on the next, while you are 00:51:19.909 --> 00:51:20.199 Yeah. 00:51:20.204 --> 00:51:20.434 Yeah. 00:51:20.735 --> 00:51:23.059 on, getting the content done. 00:51:23.809 --> 00:51:28.398 for the one,'cause the one we did recently with Xa, I think there was some really good content there. 00:51:28.398 --> 00:51:32.898 I've not had a chance yet to look back at that, but you've already made the content. 00:51:33.349 --> 00:51:34.759 Those short form videos are there. 00:51:35.478 --> 00:51:38.239 we've just gotta just make sure that we get those distributed. 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:45.498 And I think that's probably the one thing that for me personally, that I think we could probably improve on when it comes to looking ahead. 00:51:46.278 --> 00:51:48.378 starting to build a lot of content now. 00:51:48.739 --> 00:52:02.050 It's how we can repurpose that and reuse it and then, and make sure we take those golden nuggets and really, use those to our, collective advantage, 00:52:02.349 --> 00:52:02.829 Yeah, 00:52:02.969 --> 00:52:03.090 I, 00:52:03.730 --> 00:52:08.139 it's moved from just content creation to distribution now. 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:08.440 Like 00:52:08.619 --> 00:52:08.909 yeah. 00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:11.619 got, we've, and that, our, next journey. 00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:13.000 And it was got, it was Dr. 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:14.949 John Gottman's trust that I was talking about. 00:52:14.949 --> 00:52:16.780 Not Gotham, not as in Batman, Gottman. 00:52:18.340 --> 00:52:18.969 Don't, confuse that with 00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:19.360 Oh, 00:52:19.570 --> 00:52:19.750 right? 00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:21.655 gonna love the transcription on this, aren't I? 00:52:22.434 --> 00:52:23.215 Fantastic. 00:52:23.215 --> 00:52:23.815 Thanks. 00:52:24.114 --> 00:52:24.280 Dr. 00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:24.849 John Gottman. 00:52:25.809 --> 00:52:30.610 but yeah, I think that's the next challenge, or the next evolution is distribution. 00:52:31.539 --> 00:52:33.579 it out to more people, different platforms. 00:52:33.579 --> 00:52:46.719 So currently it's YouTube, apple, Spotify, YouTube, even platforms like TikTok and Instagram and working out how this, this content works or doesn't work, on those particular platforms. 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:47.980 But, certainly. 00:52:48.864 --> 00:52:52.405 Short form been the real game changer. 00:52:52.704 --> 00:52:59.184 we were just talking about the views the other day and, you look at the amount of views we have on short form content versus rest, and I think even LinkedIn. 00:53:00.295 --> 00:53:03.474 tends to like videos that are 45 seconds or less. 00:53:04.344 --> 00:53:11.065 so real short, sharp of video seems to be the trend, that gets people in. 00:53:11.065 --> 00:53:13.179 And then if they want the long stuff, they'll go find you. 00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:18.500 I feel like there's, there was a rant gonna, there was a rant about explored there. 00:53:18.500 --> 00:53:22.519 Vinay when we talk about algorithms and trends, and I'm not gonna get into that. 00:53:23.269 --> 00:53:27.860 this is not the, this is not the space for that, but I really reel against algorithms. 00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:28.880 I, struggle with them. 00:53:29.485 --> 00:53:29.635 you 00:53:29.784 --> 00:53:29.905 I, 00:53:29.994 --> 00:53:33.985 on this really great podcast called Breaking the Blueprint to talk about that'cause they'd love you on there. 00:53:35.750 --> 00:53:37.309 but I think that's relevant, right? 00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:38.389 because there's a lot of. 00:53:39.224 --> 00:53:42.824 This is about customer experience, and your customer in this case is the audience. 00:53:43.184 --> 00:53:45.315 And it's about meeting them where they're at. 00:53:45.735 --> 00:53:50.445 So most people aren't ready to consume your podcast at the moment they find your podcast. 00:53:50.894 --> 00:53:58.215 What they need to be able to do is to be able to save it for later and find it easily when they're at a point where they're ready to listen or watch. 00:53:58.605 --> 00:54:00.525 And some people listen while they're in the gym. 00:54:00.795 --> 00:54:05.085 Some people like listening whilst they're driving on long distance road trips. 00:54:05.264 --> 00:54:11.295 Some people get the time to sit in front of their laptop on a train and they wanna watch a podcast episode, so they'll watch it there. 00:54:11.625 --> 00:54:13.664 They might be scrolling before bedtime. 00:54:14.925 --> 00:54:31.500 wherever they find you, it's got to be easy for them to, Find your podcast later to, to be able to know where that's gonna fit into

their routine and to be consistent with when it's, when it's there. 00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:33.119 So they know when it's gonna be about. 00:54:33.329 --> 00:54:40.320 I know that on a Friday night, I can listen to you in the gym on Saturday because it's the end of the month and you drop your podcast on Friday morning. 00:54:40.769 --> 00:54:41.460 I know that. 00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:43.230 And then I can use that to my advantage. 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.559 But people absorb content in lots of different ways. 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:53.820 And I, the irony is I edit video for a living, but I don't consume video content much, very much at all. 00:54:54.690 --> 00:54:57.869 I have to suffer through my son's Minecraft, YouTube videos. 00:55:00.449 --> 00:55:03.210 I'm trying not to have a breakdown while I process that. 00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:08.280 But my preferred medium is audio books or text. 00:55:09.059 --> 00:55:15.690 And actually, I even struggle with podcasts now because I find, I get so many good ideas from podcasts that I actually, I almost avoid. 00:55:16.394 --> 00:55:20.954 Business podcasts because I'll come away with a row of shiny objects that I need to immediately implement. 00:55:21.375 --> 00:55:26.744 Then I, can't possibly do, Stephen Bartlett's the worst culprit for this, all of his podcast episodes. 00:55:26.744 --> 00:55:28.875 I'm like, oh yeah, I could do all of this and 00:55:29.244 --> 00:55:30.070 don't talk to me about that. 00:55:30.445 --> 00:55:38.905 I wish somebody would create a way, like I'll be listening to an or Audible in the car and then I want to say to Siri, open notes, write this idea down. 00:55:38.905 --> 00:55:44.034 I wish there was a way, because when you have that idea in the moment, and if you don't write it down that second, you know that 00:55:44.204 --> 00:55:44.594 Yeah. 00:55:44.815 --> 00:55:48.474 in its freshest form, like, just capture a voice note or do something. 00:55:48.474 --> 00:55:52.105 I don't wanna let go of the steering wheel and hit a button and try and do something that I'm not supposed to do. 00:55:52.494 --> 00:55:52.855 But if there 00:55:52.965 --> 00:55:53.235 Yeah. 00:55:53.965 --> 00:55:56.784 that I could just do that,'cause it, the same thing happens to me. 00:55:56.784 --> 00:56:02.244 I'll listen to an audio podcast and there'll be like a bonfire night fireworks display going off in my head. 00:56:02.244 --> 00:56:05.094 'cause I'll go that connects to that and that connects to that and this does that. 00:56:05.094 --> 00:56:06.594 And that has a really good angle with that. 00:56:07.235 --> 00:56:10.974 And, if I don't get it right there and then it's, gone. 00:56:11.034 --> 00:56:12.235 And then I'm onto the next one. 00:56:12.974 --> 00:56:13.184 Yeah. 00:56:13.485 --> 00:56:13.704 Yeah. 00:56:13.795 --> 00:56:20.425 So if anyone's listening, who's got a, who can invent a product, I'd love to hear from you that can do that for me. 00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:25.440

I'm gonna, I think we can post that outright as a separate clip and we can, see what comes back. 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:26.969 I'm sure there must be something out there. 00:56:27.269 --> 00:56:28.949 There's gotta be, there's gotta be. 00:56:29.635 --> 00:56:30.375 also tm the 00:56:30.675 --> 00:56:30.795 I, 00:56:31.045 --> 00:56:33.985 we've PAtent Pended it now just by talking about it in this podcast. 00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:34.889 I think he might, 00:56:35.190 --> 00:56:39.418 We'll get the and have chatGPT embedded underneath it. 00:56:42.474 --> 00:56:42.804 Yeah, 00:56:44.369 --> 00:56:50.820 there's, one more, one more story I'd like to leave, you all with, and it comes Stephen Bartlett. 00:56:50.849 --> 00:56:52.500 I feel like he sponsored this show, right? 00:56:53.460 --> 00:56:54.239 But it's true. 00:56:54.780 --> 00:57:11.820 I, listened to the diary of a CEO book and the one thing that really transformed how I, oh, transformed is the right word, underlined what I do and what we all do to an extent, as he talked about, people believe in. 00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:14.460 In something that they didn't before. 00:57:14.730 --> 00:57:28.739 Now what he discusses is, and I'm paraphrasing heavily, if you hold a gun to someone's head and ask them to believe in, something fictional, they can't, still can't believe in that thing because it's impossible. 00:57:28.739 --> 00:57:29.909 'cause they know it's not true. 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:33.750 They can tell you they believe in it, but they won't actually believe in it. 00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:38.250 The gun doesn't make any difference, even no matter how much they want to believe in it. 00:57:39.179 --> 00:57:46.409 And the way the human brain's set up to work is that we need to believe in ourselves, that somebody is an expert before we'll trust them. 00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:53.309 And we do that predominantly through aligning what they see with what we believe to be true. 00:57:53.369 --> 00:57:59.400 So Viner, if I'm listening to you and Iqbala and say 90% of the things that you see, I agree with. 00:57:59.925 --> 00:58:04.184 I will start to see you guys as experts because I believe myself to be an expert. 00:58:04.485 --> 00:58:05.894 I don't, but you know what I'm saying. 00:58:07.215 --> 00:58:15.704 I start to believe you guys to be an expert because you align with what I believe, and I've evidenced this through my life and my experiences, and I've come to know that this is the truth. 00:58:16.454 --> 00:58:18.585 But then there's this 10% where we disagree. 00:58:19.784 --> 00:58:34.755 Now, from a behavioral science perspective, that does a really interesting thing'cause it causes cognitive dissonance and it, basically, it makes my brain hurt that you believe something different to me, yet I believe you are an expert and the two can't be aligned. 00:58:35.144 --> 00:58:35.985 It can't be true. 00:58:36.465 --> 00:58:38.144 One has to be false. 00:58:38.684 --> 00:58:56.085 And if I then come to question my own beliefs and start to believe what you believe, because I go and look and realise that actually what I believe was wrong because these things here weren't true, and that's what I built my belief on, then I can now believe you are the expert and believe the same thing as you. 00:58:56.085 --> 00:58:57.255 And we completely align. 00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:04.469 And where that aligns to everybody who's listening to this is that's true of every business. 00:59:04.829 --> 00:59:11.579 If you want someone to come and buy from your services, your products, whatever you do, doesn't matter what you do. 00:59:11.789 --> 00:59:13.500 You need your customer to believe you. 00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:15.420 You guys are the experts. 00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:19.650 Forcing them to believe you're an expert doesn't work. 00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.760 Lowering your prices, for example, is not way for them to believe you're an expert. 00:59:24.570 --> 00:59:27.630 What you've got to do is chip away at them all the time. 00:59:28.230 --> 00:59:36.449 Gradually build that trust so that when the moment arises, they know that you are the person that can solve, or the business that can solve their problem entirely. 00:59:37.059 --> 00:59:37.449 Yeah. 00:59:37.469 --> 00:59:43.889 And I think that links very nicely into why you guys started bricking the blueprint in the first place, because that's where we're at. 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:46.119 Yeah, completely agree. 00:59:46.150 --> 00:59:47.349 Really nice way to frame it. 00:59:47.829 --> 00:59:48.340 Love that. 00:59:48.778 --> 00:59:50.548 Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. 00:59:50.548 --> 01:00:10.108 I think that's definitely, that's gotta be the end goal here, us to work towards and, hopefully we're delivering that level of value to our audience and, hopefully in the future we're gonna start to see this kind of grow into something bigger and better, in the next year. 01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:11.429 I'm sure it will. 01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:11.940 I'm sure it will. 01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:20.429 You guys deliver incredible value and it's been a genuine pleasure being a part of the journey that you're on so far, and I'm sure we'll have more conversations for the future as well. 01:00:20.489 --> 01:00:21.030 No doubt. 01:00:22.949 --> 01:00:24.840 congratulations on passing episode 10. 01:00:24.869 --> 01:00:28.800 'cause 95% of our podcasts don't get there, so well done. 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:30.059 It's a huge milestone. 01:00:30.420 --> 01:00:30.869 Technically. 01:00:30.869 --> 01:00:32.820 This is episode 11, bonus episode. 01:00:34.710 --> 01:00:39.360 guys, we've got anything else to leave people with before we drop off for, the seasonal holidays. 01:00:40.510 --> 01:00:41.349 just one thing from me. 01:00:41.710 --> 01:00:46.570 you've talked really kindly about working with us, but we really love working with you, and this genuinely, Paul. 01:00:46.570 --> 01:00:52.840 This is not because,

this is Ray McDiarmid's fault for introducing me and you in the first place. 01:00:54.460 --> 01:00:57.789 and I have genuinely look, I'm a tinkerer. 01:00:57.789 --> 01:01:02.320 I like technology and stuff as well, so I downloaded software and tried to do this myself. 01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:06.489 And I probably could if I had the time, do some of this myself. 01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:11.559 Not to the same level as you, but absolutely not like giving it to an expert. 01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:26.019 you're giving your baby and your idea to somebody else to help you with, but when that person gets you and gets you where you are going and understands what you're trying to do, and makes a process so easy that it just takes a headache away, that it's just oh, just Paul, just deal with it. 01:01:26.349 --> 01:01:27.130 that's magical. 01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:33.280 don't know the quarter to midnight conversations we're having on WhatsApp where you've gone, 01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:34.210 It's true. 01:01:34.539 --> 01:01:35.619 not working right. 01:01:35.650 --> 01:01:38.349 I've just synchronised this, I've changed this, I've done this. 01:01:38.829 --> 01:01:41.860 And then the next morning we'll have an email with, these are all the videos. 01:01:42.190 --> 01:01:43.000 that's just. 01:01:43.945 --> 01:01:45.894 Way beyond anything we'd expect. 01:01:45.894 --> 01:01:48.025 And you've not paid me to say any of that. 01:01:48.054 --> 01:01:57.445 This is genuinely, I really love that our, WhatsApp group about this podcast is so funny just because if anyone looked at the timestamps, It would crack them up. 01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:00.284 It is true. 01:02:00.759 --> 01:02:11.619 I think just to reiterate that point, I think for us, ha having Paul su supporting us, for me it's there, there's no big or small problem. 01:02:11.708 --> 01:02:13.208 It's have an issue. 01:02:13.653 --> 01:02:16.414 Paul's got a solution to it, and he'll just go and deal with it. 01:02:17.065 --> 01:02:17.335 Yeah. 01:02:17.403 --> 01:02:18.724 tell us exactly what he'll do. 01:02:18.998 --> 01:02:22.623 so I think, for, me, it's not having to think about it. 01:02:23.434 --> 01:02:29.719 sometimes I know that probably comes across as well, Paul, because, just got so much going on with, everything else in 01:02:30.019 --> 01:02:30.309 Yeah. 01:02:30.934 --> 01:02:39.213 and I think you appreciate that, Paul, and we, appreciate you for giving us the ti giving us that time, to solve the. 01:02:39.628 --> 01:02:46.139 The issues that we've had around, editing or technical problems or whatever, you've always found a solution by hook or crook. 01:02:46.168 --> 01:02:47.518 There's always a solution at the end of it. 01:02:47.518 --> 01:02:58.648 So that's been, I think for, me, I'll obviously, I, didn't realise that would be one of the benefits of actually bringing somebody in because Vinay, we thought, we can edit video. 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:01.588 the big deal with that? 01:03:01.588 --> 01:03:03.719 But I think it's, more than just editing video. 01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:05.128 It's, there's so much more to it. 01:03:05.188 --> 01:03:08.489 And if you don't follow through on it, it's just pointless content. 01:03:08.489 --> 01:03:13.199 You're creating content that can't be distributed properly, people that people aren't gonna see. 01:03:14.458 --> 01:03:22.228 and, having your expertise, around everything around delivering this podcast has been really valuable. 01:03:22.860 --> 01:03:22.980 I. 01:03:23.369 --> 01:03:24.688 you can pay me later, Paul. 01:03:26.579 --> 01:03:27.150 With what? 01:03:29.369 --> 01:03:31.260 but I think that's the, fun for me, right? 01:03:31.445 --> 01:03:36.119 is I, the challenges that would have you guys cry in is the bits that I really enjoy. 01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.420 Just like you guys do that for your clients in turn, right? 01:03:39.690 --> 01:03:43.619 And I think we've all got our zone of genius that we enjoy working in and, being part of. 01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:53.789 And for me, look, there's nothing beats seeing the smile on, on your faces when I send that video over and I get, I get the message in the WhatsApp group, oh, Paul, that, that highlight reel is on fire. 01:03:53.849 --> 01:03:54.239 Brilliant. 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:54.690 I love it. 01:03:55.079 --> 01:03:56.460 Like that for me is everything. 01:03:56.489 --> 01:04:00.690 Like the money is it's a nice to have, but that's not why I do what I do. 01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:07.170 It's, I really want to help people share their journeys and their stories in a way that's accessible to everyone else. 01:04:08.250 --> 01:04:10.110 there's so much wasted content out there. 01:04:10.110 --> 01:04:19.710 There's so many good, valuable nuggets of knowledge that people have that will never see the light of day I love working with you guys. 01:04:19.710 --> 01:04:21.239 Thank you very much for your time today. 01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:23.190 Really enjoyed the conversation. 01:04:23.715 --> 01:04:29.505 And, we'll, all, I won't see you in the new year'cause this is my only episode for the time being. 01:04:31.155 --> 01:04:33.135 but Vinay and Iqbal will see you in the new year. 01:04:33.525 --> 01:04:35.715 have a fantastic holiday wherever you are. 01:04:36.135 --> 01:04:37.335 And, we'll see you soon. 01:04:37.914 --> 01:04:38.215 Yeah. 01:04:38.215 --> 01:04:38.644 Take care. 01:04:38.744 --> 01:04:39.213 Thank You. 01:04:39.409 --> 01:04:39.798 Take care.