บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Customers remember the break up, not the journey

00:04:05.917 --> 00:04:07.597 and, they don't pay enough attention to it. 00:04:08.662 --> 00:04:13.162 because a good breakup can leave a good story, and there's always the possibility of. 00:04:13.806 --> 00:04:14.377 Coming back. 00:04:14.377 --> 00:04:21.367 But even when people break up with your organisation it's what they tell their friends, family, loved ones, et cetera, about how the experience was. 00:04:21.367 --> 00:04:29.677 So anyway, look, before we go off into a tangent about relationships and all that kinda stuff, let's, let's introduce our guest for today. 00:04:30.367 --> 00:04:32.497 Mel, welcome to the podcast. 00:04:32.497 --> 00:04:38.766 Would you like to tell our viewers, listeners, who you are, what you do, a bit about your background, and then we'll dive into the topic. 00:04:39.536 --> 00:04:39.987 thank you. 00:04:39.987 --> 00:04:40.807 Thank you, Vinay. 00:04:40.826 --> 00:04:41.416 Thank you Iqbal. 00:04:41.416 --> 00:04:42.387 Thanks for me having me. 00:04:43.137 --> 00:04:43.976 my name's Mel. 00:04:44.007 --> 00:04:46.377 I am the director of Agentic Consulting. 00:04:46.646 --> 00:04:50.937 we're a brand new consulting firm, but we work specifically with the membership sector. 00:04:51.896 --> 00:05:03.297 I've done 30 years in membership from leisure memberships to professionals, charities, all kinds of experience, and have seen all these problems, challenges and opportunities at the membership, et cetera. 00:05:03.622 --> 00:05:04.101 Firsthand. 00:05:05.091 --> 00:05:12.742 so we are looking at seeing how we can help organisations to, to bring this customer experience to life with them and look at their whole journey. 00:05:13.341 --> 00:05:23.692 but using things like AI and new technologies, there's lots of opportunities to, to take this technology and make it work for the membership organisations we are hoping to be the translators. 00:05:24.007 --> 00:05:27.247 We're hoping to help the membership organisations'cause we speak membership. 00:05:27.427 --> 00:05:27.757 Yeah. 00:05:27.877 --> 00:05:30.187 But help the tech companies to make that connection. 00:05:30.427 --> 00:05:30.666 Yeah. 00:05:30.726 --> 00:05:30.937 Yeah. 00:05:31.086 --> 00:05:31.297 great. 00:05:31.297 --> 00:05:44.797 Look, I'm sure we'll get into some really interesting conversations, but I think we'll start off with the first question is, because a lot of people will be familiar with customer experience in a traditional B2C organisation or a B2B, but just help us paint a picture of the membership landscape. 00:05:44.887 --> 00:05:54.262 What do we mean by membership organisation A little bit about some of the organisations that work in there and, yeah, just give us a bit of a whistle stop tour of the landscape, if that's okay. 00:05:54.322 --> 00:05:56.122 So the land landscape is broad. 00:05:56.122 --> 00:05:59.271 You've been talking about HelloFresh and subscriptions from the commercial side. 00:05:59.752 --> 00:06:04.581 you

can go right through to your gym Memberships, you, most people have a membership of some sort. 00:06:05.317 --> 00:06:10.086 you may be a member of your professional body by the Charter, charter Institute, marketing, or the accountants. 00:06:10.086 --> 00:06:10.146 Yeah. 00:06:10.987 --> 00:06:16.057 you may be a member of a medical charity, the BMA or a, an organisation like that. 00:06:16.057 --> 00:06:18.307 You, lots of people are members of National Trust. 00:06:18.547 --> 00:06:21.697 There's 6 million members in the uk or you are a member of a union. 00:06:22.192 --> 00:06:24.052 Huge number of people are members of unions. 00:06:24.081 --> 00:06:31.101 These are all organisations where you have, a relationship with them and it's normally a paid subscription relationship. 00:06:31.281 --> 00:06:32.721 So either annual or monthly. 00:06:33.562 --> 00:06:44.482 and you expect to have some services back in response for that membership, or you're doing it altruistically, but you still wanna make feel, you want to know that you're making a difference if that's a charity membership, like the Wooden Trust. 00:06:44.752 --> 00:06:44.901 Yeah. 00:06:44.901 --> 00:06:49.851 So if you are giving, for example, I think other memberships I've had in my lifetime are things like the national trust. 00:06:50.826 --> 00:06:53.586 I'm a member of the local Chamber of Commerce here in Birmingham. 00:06:54.516 --> 00:06:58.807 Institute of Directors I've been a member of, and people like that, as well as gym memberships and services. 00:06:58.807 --> 00:07:08.286 So this is really, I'm paying a regular outlay to an organisation to be part of something in exchange for a value that they're driving. 00:07:08.812 --> 00:07:09.982 or they're delivering for me. 00:07:10.072 --> 00:07:11.331 is that's the basis. 00:07:11.331 --> 00:07:11.901 Absolutely. 00:07:11.901 --> 00:07:15.021 And the, idea around membership, it, it is gold dust. 00:07:15.172 --> 00:07:20.062 It is the golden goose because you have a recurring membership or recurring payment happening all the time. 00:07:20.721 --> 00:07:27.591 so for organisations that's just gold dust compared to other organisations who have to have a transaction every time. 00:07:27.651 --> 00:07:27.922 Yeah. 00:07:27.922 --> 00:07:30.622 You've committed to that for a year or longer. 00:07:30.891 --> 00:07:34.492 So just on that then, like you, you talk about paid membership. 00:07:35.122 --> 00:07:37.161 If we start off perhaps with. 00:07:38.091 --> 00:07:41.091 your kind of basic free membership, there's a lot of that, right? 00:07:41.362 --> 00:07:46.911 you're aware members of loads of things that we probably don't remember, but they don't really add much value to us. 00:07:46.911 --> 00:07:49.612 The question is, why are organisations doing that? 00:07:50.002 --> 00:07:55.012 What benefits is there in having somebody be a member when actually they're not? 00:07:55.041 --> 00:08:04.596 There's no real commitment on either side to, in all honesty, but I see more of that then, perhaps before we delve into the paid membership,'cause that's quite obvious. 00:08:05.107 --> 00:08:07.747 if I'm paying for something, I expect something, back. 00:08:08.677 --> 00:08:16.387 but if it's just like a, I dunno, Tesco club card, you know what you're getting without a real commitment there. 00:08:16.387 --> 00:08:18.396 But it doesn't cost me anything as a customer. 00:08:18.396 --> 00:08:18.726 Yeah. 00:08:18.997 --> 00:08:21.966 and the benefits for the organisations are that you have a relationship. 00:08:22.166 --> 00:08:33.596 You, you get a brand and loyalty to that organisation You,'cause you feel part of that organisation You feel that they're listening to you, you feel that they are, they're doing something slightly different and you are getting a benefit in another kind from them. 00:08:34.256 --> 00:08:37.736 and so quite a lot of organisations will start off with a free type subscription. 00:08:38.096 --> 00:08:39.596 And the idea is then they take you. 00:08:39.996 --> 00:08:41.346 Maybe onto that first level. 00:08:41.407 --> 00:08:44.586 Maybe not a loyalty scheme, but another one and they will take you on that area. 00:08:44.826 --> 00:08:49.236 It's a good hook in for an organisation to make you feel that you're part of a community, 00:08:49.687 --> 00:08:50.407 you're part of something. 00:08:50.407 --> 00:08:52.537 There's a feeling of, I guess a bit of exclusivity. 00:08:52.657 --> 00:08:52.777 Yeah. 00:08:53.106 --> 00:08:55.057 Costco for example, I'm a member of Costco. 00:08:55.147 --> 00:08:55.447 Yeah. 00:08:56.586 --> 00:09:03.517 and I don't shop there that regularly, but I shop there frequently enough that I feel I can gain in value for the membership. 00:09:03.532 --> 00:09:06.231 Yeah, but It is, you're a bit, there's a bit of an exclusive club. 00:09:06.231 --> 00:09:08.211 You're getting, a good deal and some stuff, and this 00:09:08.211 --> 00:09:12.201 friction as well, I find with Costco as an example to become a member. 00:09:12.201 --> 00:09:15.442 It's not as you gotta go in and you gotta queue up and 00:09:15.647 --> 00:09:15.937 it's, 00:09:16.461 --> 00:09:20.152 it's crazy that in this day and age they still, but yet people still do it. 00:09:20.152 --> 00:09:21.201 It doesn't stop them from. 00:09:21.562 --> 00:09:22.282 From becoming a member. 00:09:22.307 --> 00:09:22.596 Yeah. 00:09:22.731 --> 00:09:23.062 Yeah. 00:09:23.121 --> 00:09:30.322 But presumably they think they're getting that value, they're getting that community, or they're getting an extra discount or a value that something that somebody else can't have. 00:09:30.326 --> 00:09:30.437 Yeah. 00:09:30.652 --> 00:09:30.741 Yeah. 00:09:31.251 --> 00:09:32.302 and that's where it's going. 00:09:32.302 --> 00:09:36.741 But lots of organisations have got to the stage where they just take that, they take the money at the beginning. 00:09:37.131 --> 00:09:40.432 And then

don't think of that as a membership or as a relationship. 00:09:40.881 --> 00:09:42.351 They just think it's transactional. 00:09:42.562 --> 00:09:42.831 Yeah. 00:09:42.922 --> 00:09:49.282 And a good membership is both transactional, that you get a, benefit, saving money or saving time. 00:09:49.461 --> 00:09:49.581 Yeah. 00:09:49.611 --> 00:09:51.802 But you also feel like, ah, I've got my community. 00:09:51.831 --> 00:09:53.692 Yeah, I know where I'm going to be. 00:09:53.692 --> 00:09:54.892 I can talk to these people. 00:09:54.892 --> 00:09:56.032 They are my people. 00:09:57.682 --> 00:09:59.721 it makes people feel part of something. 00:09:59.721 --> 00:10:03.322 and if you've got a problem, you can go back to That organisation Yeah. 00:10:03.381 --> 00:10:05.692 Or that community and talk about it. 00:10:05.692 --> 00:10:11.841 Yeah, So that's where they, are losing a lot of that relationship at the moment because they are, oh, I've just gotta give transactional value. 00:10:12.682 --> 00:10:13.822 And they don't always achieve that. 00:10:13.866 --> 00:10:14.157 Yeah. 00:10:14.331 --> 00:10:14.601 Yeah. 00:10:14.601 --> 00:10:19.912 I guess it's that part of being taken for granted that once the direct debit or the regular. 00:10:20.662 --> 00:10:30.412 Transactions being collected by the organisation and so I clearly the experience, whether you wanna translate as I feel the value that I'm getting or whatever is important. 00:10:30.412 --> 00:10:33.922 So what are the what does organisations get wrong from your perspective? 00:10:34.162 --> 00:10:36.322 you've spent a long time in that sector. 00:10:36.351 --> 00:10:36.471 Yeah. 00:10:38.272 --> 00:10:45.172 what would you say are the top three or four key guess mistakes or missteps, whatever you wanna call them. 00:10:46.581 --> 00:10:47.211 what would they be? 00:10:47.706 --> 00:10:53.797 I think the first one really steps where you take the money and then you don't think about that journey, that customer experience journey. 00:10:53.797 --> 00:10:55.147 You don't onboard them well. 00:10:56.047 --> 00:10:59.106 quite often an organisation will take the money and then send you a welcome pack. 00:10:59.106 --> 00:11:02.376 You might get one on time, you might get one late, you might not get anything at all. 00:11:03.187 --> 00:11:04.777 and then they'll bombard you. 00:11:05.076 --> 00:11:09.246 With communications, they'll then stick to you on, your mailing list and you just get everything. 00:11:10.297 --> 00:11:14.947 and quite often the organisations will send you the same email whether you've been there 25 years. 00:11:14.947 --> 00:11:15.996 yeah, Or whether you've just joined. 00:11:16.267 --> 00:11:16.537 Yeah. 00:11:16.777 --> 00:11:21.907 Whether you've, you are, you're a student, or whether you are a retired member, you get the same information. 00:11:22.506 --> 00:11:24.636 We are time, short people time short. 00:11:24.697 --> 00:11:26.797 One of the benefits of being in

a membership. 00:11:27.187 --> 00:11:33.336 Of an organisation is that you, you save that person time or money or you, you, make their life easier. 00:11:33.636 --> 00:11:33.907 Yeah. 00:11:33.907 --> 00:11:35.586 And they don't make your life easier. 00:11:36.246 --> 00:11:51.876 And, I guess, being a member of an organisation means that I've exchanged some data that gives you some information about me in a way that if I've just walked into your store, paid via contactless and not exchange any data, you could forgive the organisation for not knowing enough about me. 00:11:52.611 --> 00:12:12.292 as you were saying that, I was thinking about a couple of, there's an organisation I won't say who they are, but I've been a member of for two years, and they sent me a welcome letter two years into my membership with my card that I'd never received before, saying, welcome to X organisation a, month before my membership was about to expire. 00:12:12.351 --> 00:12:14.422 Now I was already thinking about not renewing. 00:12:15.037 --> 00:12:22.956 But what do you think I did when I received a letter saying I've been a member for two years and welcome to my welcome to ship. 00:12:23.136 --> 00:12:23.826 no apology 00:12:23.826 --> 00:12:24.397 for forgetting 00:12:25.631 --> 00:12:25.851 it. 00:12:26.346 --> 00:12:26.407 it. 00:12:26.407 --> 00:12:30.576 is that they are, a lot of all these organisations have got stuck in the systems. 00:12:31.027 --> 00:12:40.116 They, the system is running them and they're not thinking about the member, but that's what the system says I need to do and I can't change the system, so I'm just gonna send it out regardless of what's gonna happen. 00:12:40.506 --> 00:12:43.506 and they'll just not, they're not joined up. 00:12:43.506 --> 00:12:44.197 They're not thinking it. 00:12:44.197 --> 00:12:44.466 through. 00:12:44.586 --> 00:12:45.277 Yeah. 00:12:45.547 --> 00:12:46.236 and I think that. 00:12:46.537 --> 00:12:51.096 that, we talk often in CX about this drive for personalisation Yeah. 00:12:51.576 --> 00:13:15.412 For doing that And as you were saying, the comms as well, I noticed that the newsletter that will come out from said organisations will be exactly the same to me as to anyone else, they'll make no, basic Curation or personalisation to make it feel different for a member that's two years in or one year in, or maybe the kind of business that I run versus the, kind of business that somebody else runs. 00:13:15.621 --> 00:13:17.751 It's all very standard and generic. 00:13:17.991 --> 00:13:25.761 I think generally marketing or marketing campaigns for lots of organisations is just a male blast of the same email. 00:13:26.466 --> 00:13:27.067 to everyone. 00:13:27.067 --> 00:13:28.417 A lot of the time that happens, it's, 00:13:28.822 --> 00:13:33.157 but, I think just going back to your point, it's, you've gotta differentiate between members and non-members first of all. 00:13:33.157 --> 00:13:34.057 Like sure. 00:13:34.057 --> 00:13:40.716 Use the generic marketing strategy against those that aren't, a member, but a member that's shown you loyalty. 00:13:40.716 --> 00:13:44.647 You've got data on these people, you can see what they're buying behaviors been like. 00:13:45.726 --> 00:14:01.581 maybe what they're doing on social platforms to do a bit of social listening and really Build a picture of what your, what this member looks like, and then build a personalised offer that really meets that person's kind of concurrent needs. 00:14:02.121 --> 00:14:07.011 and surely, like I, I, feel like the data's there for us to, figure out. 00:14:07.011 --> 00:14:08.211 But it just goes back to systems. 00:14:08.211 --> 00:14:09.802 I think that's a hundred percent true. 00:14:09.922 --> 00:14:10.162 Yeah. 00:14:11.062 --> 00:14:15.522 So, the first one you shared was, The lack of personalisation treating everyone the same. 00:14:15.761 --> 00:14:17.412 What, are other mistakes do you, feel that they make 00:14:17.412 --> 00:14:20.951 So I think they are complacent quite a lot of the time. 00:14:21.282 --> 00:14:23.532 this is what we've always done, this is what you've had. 00:14:23.981 --> 00:14:31.331 and I, think expectations are changing what young people want versus somebody that was there who's been there for a long time, is very different. 00:14:31.542 --> 00:14:34.211 And so they're still pushing out the same sort of benefits. 00:14:34.961 --> 00:14:38.682 in the same way they say, oh, but we do email now or we do a podcast. 00:14:39.027 --> 00:14:43.287 and you, they're still using the same content and they're still not thinking that content through. 00:14:43.586 --> 00:14:46.647 They're making it hard for people to access the services. 00:14:47.096 --> 00:14:51.027 if you go onto their website, finding content, can be a mire. 00:14:51.267 --> 00:14:52.317 You can't find it. 00:14:53.336 --> 00:14:59.412 when the internet came in many years ago, lots of membership organisers said, oh, that's the end of us. 00:14:59.807 --> 00:15:00.677 That's the end of what we do. 00:15:00.677 --> 00:15:01.907 I said, no, it's not. 00:15:02.147 --> 00:15:05.206 Because people want you to create the best content. 00:15:05.746 --> 00:15:12.407 You want to be able to go to your professional body or to the national trust or to any other organisation and know that they give you what you need. 00:15:13.126 --> 00:15:13.187 Yeah. 00:15:13.187 --> 00:15:14.537 That you know it's right and it's good. 00:15:14.777 --> 00:15:14.836 Yeah. 00:15:14.836 --> 00:15:19.157 So content curation and, making sure that they surface really good content. 00:15:19.157 --> 00:15:19.336 Yeah. 00:15:19.336 --> 00:15:19.961 That's relevant. 00:15:20.662 --> 00:15:22.251 Is something that they really struggle with. 00:15:22.611 --> 00:15:24.022 Again, partly down to systems. 00:15:24.922 --> 00:15:32.211 but again, using their, the behaviors, their con their data to understand what are people

looking at, what are they look interested in? 00:15:32.211 --> 00:15:33.381 Can we do some active listening? 00:15:33.442 --> 00:15:34.371 Oh, that's coming up. 00:15:34.701 --> 00:15:36.591 They don't, they get into this mire. 00:15:37.581 --> 00:15:42.652 and that's partly driven by a lot of these organisations in this sort of not-for-profit sector are. 00:15:42.981 --> 00:15:46.162 Managed by boards and, quite heavy governance. 00:15:46.642 --> 00:15:56.631 So you may be a brilliant engineer and you may have a brilliant marketer, or you might be a brilliant accountant or you might be a really interesting camping caravan, member. 00:15:57.711 --> 00:16:03.922 but you don't know how to necessarily run A membership organisation and, they quite often will drive the agenda. 00:16:04.341 --> 00:16:07.971 Because they are quite often the skew, they have the 10% on the end. 00:16:07.971 --> 00:16:09.591 They're not the 90% the middle. 00:16:09.772 --> 00:16:10.101 Yeah. 00:16:10.131 --> 00:16:15.022 So you get stuck in that rut of just the same thing and not moving the times. 00:16:15.027 --> 00:16:15.106 Yeah. 00:16:15.106 --> 00:16:15.386 Okay. 00:16:16.576 --> 00:16:16.866 yeah. 00:16:16.897 --> 00:16:17.187 Okay. 00:16:17.871 --> 00:16:18.501 Anything, else? 00:16:18.682 --> 00:16:21.741 Maybe a, third one just to, to wrap this bit up and then we can Yeah. 00:16:21.741 --> 00:16:26.932 I think they, they aren't doing enough with their data. 00:16:27.142 --> 00:16:29.211 You, started off this podcast thinking about data. 00:16:29.662 --> 00:16:33.922 They have a lot of data, but it's in systems and they're not joining it together. 00:16:34.282 --> 00:16:34.461 Yeah. 00:16:34.491 --> 00:16:36.081 So that's one of the biggest challenge. 00:16:36.081 --> 00:16:39.591 Maybe from them, it's a challenge for them, for the members. 00:16:39.621 --> 00:16:42.392 They're not using the knowledge they have to personalise 00:16:42.711 --> 00:16:42.892 Yeah. 00:16:43.206 --> 00:16:53.136 what's interesting about what Mel's saying here is, actually if you take membership out of it and, you look at organisations personalisation Listening to your customers and understanding them, it's the 00:16:53.136 --> 00:16:54.006 same rule to apply 00:16:54.216 --> 00:16:56.047 and using that data Yeah. 00:16:56.076 --> 00:16:57.486 To build stronger connection. 00:16:57.486 --> 00:17:00.576 Relationship the same, yeah, the same challenges apply, right? 00:17:00.581 --> 00:17:00.751 Yeah. 00:17:00.756 --> 00:17:00.907 Yeah. 00:17:01.356 --> 00:17:11.017 and actually your observation about boards and maybe, in organisations similarly, you have people that, think they have a typical customer or typical segment. 00:17:12.096 --> 00:17:23.646 you see a lot of these memes going round, in marketing posts where they have, marketing segment and they talk about, born, both born in 1945, both this, both that it looks exactly the same. 00:17:23.646 --> 00:17:29.166 And one's I know, one's Hitler and one's somebody else. 00:17:29.166 --> 00:17:31.567 so it's only when you show the picture that you see that they're different. 00:17:31.807 --> 00:17:53.571 But actually the demographic things, and I think there's a, there's this, without going off on a tangent, that's why we're moving to Beyond those typical market segmentations of just social economic indicators to other behavioral segmentation as well, which is an important, I wouldn't say it's emerging'cause it's been ran, but that kind of that behavior or psych, is it psychographic? 00:17:53.662 --> 00:17:55.162 Yeah, I think so. 00:17:55.162 --> 00:17:55.163 Psycho, yeah. 00:17:55.221 --> 00:17:57.142 Those kind of things that that kind of come into it. 00:17:57.172 --> 00:17:58.132 Okay, great. 00:17:58.971 --> 00:18:01.251 So they're The kind of key problems. 00:18:01.852 --> 00:18:05.182 So what's the route to solution here? 00:18:06.412 --> 00:18:13.162 I'm, your consultancy, works with these organisations and is focused on ai. 00:18:13.821 --> 00:18:15.622 So what is the role of ai? 00:18:15.622 --> 00:18:22.642 What's the potential that AI has for these membership organisations in solving some of these issues and problems that you've set out? 00:18:23.001 --> 00:18:27.832 I think, one of the biggest, potential is, that data, that insight. 00:18:28.041 --> 00:18:30.201 So they've got lots of systems, lots of insight. 00:18:30.321 --> 00:18:44.362 AI can bring that data together and it can start to look for patterns and it can start to preempt to one of the things that's really exciting from the a for the membership sector board is wouldn't it be great if we could take that data and we see where somebody does lapse. 00:18:44.781 --> 00:18:47.991 And we go back and look at the data and we go, ah, those are the trigger points. 00:18:48.172 --> 00:18:48.981 That's interesting. 00:18:49.011 --> 00:18:50.662 And you can map that against other data. 00:18:50.662 --> 00:18:50.961 So you. 00:18:50.961 --> 00:18:53.061 can actually preempt somebody that's likely to lap. 00:18:53.602 --> 00:18:59.662 So if you're with HelloFresh, you suddenly start to order slightly less, or you extend your period. 00:18:59.692 --> 00:19:02.662 Or it could be with a national trust. 00:19:03.112 --> 00:19:05.362 You can see they're not visiting the sites anymore. 00:19:05.362 --> 00:19:06.951 They're not opening the emails. 00:19:07.041 --> 00:19:07.132 Yeah. 00:19:07.132 --> 00:19:08.241 They're not engaging. 00:19:08.541 --> 00:19:11.332 Wouldn't that be fantastic that I could actually red flag those members? 00:19:11.362 --> 00:19:11.511 Yeah. 00:19:11.602 --> 00:19:12.352 Before it happens. 00:19:12.352 --> 00:19:13.102 you go, ah. 00:19:13.416 --> 00:19:14.467 This person's at risk. 00:19:14.586 --> 00:19:20.467 Can I do something about it So data and preemptive, action is brilliant. 00:19:20.567 --> 00:19:22.576 data is a key, part of the whole thing. 00:19:22.606 --> 00:19:22.997 Okay.

00:19:23.807 --> 00:19:29.596 but then one of the challenges that organisations will often flag up is the data sits in legacy systems. 00:19:29.656 --> 00:19:31.037 It doesn't talk to anything else. 00:19:31.037 --> 00:19:32.416 It's not connected in any way. 00:19:33.436 --> 00:19:37.142 how do you Think about that in this, context. 00:19:37.892 --> 00:19:38.612 You're absolutely right. 00:19:38.912 --> 00:19:44.132 that's one of the critical problems that the membership organisations and I'm sure other businesses have as well. 00:19:44.731 --> 00:19:52.801 So historically they would've had a membership database, which is really used to transact, would've, given you your, make sure the renewals went out. 00:19:53.192 --> 00:19:55.471 But now they've got an email database. 00:19:56.521 --> 00:20:00.842 and so the email information is held there and the events database is somewhere else. 00:20:00.872 --> 00:20:02.761 And webinar could be somewhere else. 00:20:03.061 --> 00:20:03.902 Social listening. 00:20:04.166 --> 00:20:05.547 You've got lots of different platforms. 00:20:05.906 --> 00:20:11.366 The real exciting thing around AI and the way data's working now is you don't have to have everything in one place. 00:20:11.666 --> 00:20:11.876 That's true. 00:20:12.237 --> 00:20:17.122 I worked for one organisation that had one database for everything, whether it was a mug. 00:20:17.791 --> 00:20:22.412 Or a woodland or a member, everything was in one database and It ended up imploding. 00:20:22.412 --> 00:20:23.461 It just doesn't work. 00:20:23.971 --> 00:20:25.832 You don't have to use one system. 00:20:26.071 --> 00:20:28.261 What you need is some clever tech underneath. 00:20:28.261 --> 00:20:29.731 So either a data layer. 00:20:30.092 --> 00:20:30.811 So a data layer. 00:20:30.811 --> 00:20:35.162 is really good, that it's the brain, it will transact and it will move the information around what needs it. 00:20:36.241 --> 00:20:39.061 and lots of organisations now putting data warehousing behind that. 00:20:39.561 --> 00:20:42.771 So as long as you've got a connection with a membership you have that connection. 00:20:42.771 --> 00:20:45.771 you have a membership number where they've logged in to do something. 00:20:46.071 --> 00:20:46.162 Yeah. 00:20:46.192 --> 00:20:50.902 Or you've got an email address, you can then start to track that information right across. 00:20:51.172 --> 00:20:51.412 Yeah. 00:20:51.412 --> 00:20:57.491 It's like that gold, the golden record of, I think I referred to it as a A golden record as a key ident. 00:20:57.491 --> 00:20:58.721 A unique identifier. 00:20:58.721 --> 00:20:58.961 Yeah. 00:20:59.112 --> 00:20:59.352 Yeah. 00:20:59.352 --> 00:21:02.321 That means that if this is my member, everything that happens connects to this number. 00:21:02.321 --> 00:21:02.471 Ex 00:21:02.561 --> 00:21:03.372 Exactly that. 00:21:03.521 --> 00:21:10.122 and I think you, are spot on in terms of, there is a massive desire to consolidate a lot of the, data. 00:21:10.122 --> 00:21:13.092 But that's gonna take time because you've got different systems in place. 00:21:13.692 --> 00:21:26.886 that's why you do what, I'm seeing this with a lot of organisations They have a strategy around looking at Snowflake or Tableau to try and consolidate and, Create that layer of data that can be tapped into in any, which way. 00:21:27.156 --> 00:21:33.906 I think what's really exciting is, how we can start to build agents essentially that can go and access data from wherever. 00:21:33.906 --> 00:21:41.826 It doesn't matter where it is anymore, and that's why it's changing the landscape for some new software vendors out there, because you've got the ability to just drop an agent in. 00:21:42.422 --> 00:21:43.981 And it will just go and find that data. 00:21:44.071 --> 00:21:44.402 Yeah. 00:21:44.402 --> 00:21:46.082 And then it will trigger some follow up. 00:21:46.231 --> 00:22:05.942 So just before we delve into the world of AI agents, because again, we've got a range of listeners and people that view that are super into AI and understand it, but just for everybody to get us sort on the same page, can you just very quickly explain the difference between what we call generative AI and an AI agent? 00:22:05.971 --> 00:22:07.531 What's, what are we talking about here? 00:22:08.086 --> 00:22:12.662 So this is an area where it's, understanding what your outcome is that you want to get to. 00:22:13.037 --> 00:22:15.257 So generative AI is getting information together. 00:22:15.527 --> 00:22:23.416 it's creating that knowledge base that you need, whereas you have an agent who's actually interpreting it and then connecting with your member itself. 00:22:24.856 --> 00:22:31.517 we have, we've been looking at, using AI to, to surface data, to learn, to insight, fantastic. 00:22:31.547 --> 00:22:33.047 the speed, the things can happen now. 00:22:33.826 --> 00:22:41.416 we talked about, you talk about Tableau, worked with an organisation gave'em some information on the Friday, they created a membership dashboard, was fully integrated. 00:22:41.606 --> 00:22:44.186 By the Monday, I was like, wow, it's amazing. 00:22:45.057 --> 00:22:58.436 but what's really interesting now is that you, can use an agent now to actually interpret that data and feed it back to the customer or the member in real time, so they don't have to wait for somebody to go look up something. 00:22:58.436 --> 00:22:59.307 It's immediate. 00:22:59.307 --> 00:23:05.416 So instead of having to ring between nine and five, you can ring it, 10 past midnight and go, I need to renew. 00:23:05.416 --> 00:23:06.676 'cause that's what I remembered how to do it. 00:23:06.946 --> 00:23:12.047 I remembered then, and actually I can't figure my way around the website, but somebody would just lead me through it. 00:23:12.406 --> 00:23:15.886 that's the exciting thing about how natural language Yeah. 00:23:16.517 --> 00:23:17.866 AI is now

working as well. 00:23:17.926 --> 00:23:18.166 Yeah. 00:23:18.166 --> 00:23:20.326 'cause they both use LLMs. 00:23:21.106 --> 00:23:21.436 Yes. 00:23:21.467 --> 00:23:25.366 But generative is input in, in, output out. 00:23:25.366 --> 00:23:27.676 So it's an instruction to do this for me, do that. 00:23:27.797 --> 00:23:28.007 Yeah. 00:23:28.067 --> 00:23:31.186 Whereas Agentic is starting to think and reason. 00:23:31.606 --> 00:23:37.186 and do some decision making within what it's, what, it's, what it's capability is to, be able to go. 00:23:37.936 --> 00:23:40.126 I saw a really, a good example on stage. 00:23:40.636 --> 00:23:47.537 the other day I was at a conference and this guy, was demonstrating, said, who is, it was, Chris Hay, this, a chap called Chris Hay. 00:23:47.807 --> 00:23:48.916 And he put, who is Chris Hay? 00:23:48.916 --> 00:23:55.247 And he showed if he did that with a generative ai, the output that you would get, and then he did an agent and then the agent. 00:23:56.221 --> 00:23:58.832 talk through, this is the methodology I'm going To use. 00:23:59.342 --> 00:23:59.402 Yeah. 00:23:59.402 --> 00:24:00.511 To explore who Chris is. 00:24:00.511 --> 00:24:03.902 I'm gonna search this I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna a suggested methodology. 00:24:04.231 --> 00:24:05.251 Then it went and did it. 00:24:05.551 --> 00:24:12.541 Then it came back with the data, and then it analyzed that data and then came back and it just refined it through a process, which I thought was, really interesting. 00:24:12.541 --> 00:24:29.267 I know this, podcast is not necessarily about ai, that link into how can AI help these organisations In that data space, it feels like taking them beyond the, just giving me some insights from what's driven to take the insights and do something with it. 00:24:30.136 --> 00:24:31.981 Yeah, you're absolutely right and I think it's really interesting. 00:24:31.981 --> 00:24:38.176 I worked for an organisation years ago and we had a slightly, disruptive implementation of a CRM system. 00:24:38.267 --> 00:24:38.507 We had. 00:24:39.317 --> 00:24:41.596 Hundreds of complaints, hundreds and hundreds of complaints. 00:24:41.987 --> 00:24:46.336 and I looked back on it and I said to them, I need a, report on this. 00:24:46.336 --> 00:24:48.017 I need to know what, was going wrong? 00:24:48.047 --> 00:24:49.037 How would we fix it? 00:24:49.426 --> 00:24:51.257 And they came back with 42 complaints. 00:24:51.257 --> 00:24:53.176 I went, I've done more of That myself. 00:24:53.596 --> 00:24:55.967 And we, they weren't learning, they weren't doing that feedback. 00:24:55.967 --> 00:24:59.866 So you've still got organisations who are not taking feedback at all. 00:25:00.707 --> 00:25:02.686 they're not even using the feedback that's in their hands. 00:25:02.747 --> 00:25:09.826 The AI interpretive agents will now say, actually, I did that last time when somebody tried to join and they didn't work. 00:25:09.826 --> 00:25:11.176 Let me try this approach. 00:25:11.507 --> 00:25:13.007 Ah, if I do that approach. 00:25:13.007 --> 00:25:14.267 I get more recruitment. 00:25:14.507 --> 00:25:21.017 So you get, you can, they literally will learn on the job just like a human, but they're taking all that information in. 00:25:22.547 --> 00:25:29.656 it's classic, membership or call center stuff where you get a similar complaint or niggle that's coming in. 00:25:29.656 --> 00:25:29.717 Yeah. 00:25:29.717 --> 00:25:31.307 They don't quite record it anywhere. 00:25:31.547 --> 00:25:31.666 Yeah. 00:25:31.967 --> 00:25:35.057 And then you have a meeting when it all blows up. 00:25:35.086 --> 00:25:37.906 Oh, I knew about that and I knew about that, but they don't. 00:25:38.777 --> 00:25:41.207 Our human nature, we don't share the same problem. 00:25:41.297 --> 00:25:41.567 Yeah. 00:25:41.567 --> 00:25:43.156 And our AI will do that. 00:25:43.156 --> 00:25:44.207 They'll figure that out. 00:25:44.477 --> 00:25:44.987 Exactly. 00:25:45.227 --> 00:25:47.656 and I think it's what it leads to then, isn't it? 00:25:47.807 --> 00:25:54.977 It's you've, got this agent in there that's, potentially detected a trend or something that's going on, across. 00:25:55.576 --> 00:25:56.807 different conversations. 00:25:57.646 --> 00:26:07.217 and then it's, and I think this is where people are failing, organisations are failing, is They might still be deploying AI and then they're uncovering stuff, but they're not actioning it. 00:26:07.247 --> 00:26:09.916 They're not triggering it in the right way, because that takes a lot of. 00:26:10.471 --> 00:26:19.321 Thought design and obviously execution to ensure that yes, the agents can self-learn and do stuff, but you've still got to guide them in the right way. 00:26:19.561 --> 00:26:21.961 You still need human in the loop at some point, potentially. 00:26:21.967 --> 00:26:22.196 Yeah. 00:26:22.231 --> 00:26:22.442 Yeah. 00:26:22.622 --> 00:26:30.662 and I think this kind of gets us to the next stage of the conversation, which is that practical implementation because there's lots of talk about what AI can do. 00:26:31.201 --> 00:26:38.491 everybody's, I think I heard, civil service have implemented, Microsoft co copilot and a 20% saving. 00:26:39.122 --> 00:26:40.142 And time, right? 00:26:40.412 --> 00:26:44.132 But the question is, what are you doing with that time that you're getting back? 00:26:44.132 --> 00:26:47.251 If it's just filling up with the same stuff, what happens to it? 00:26:47.791 --> 00:26:54.662 so you hear all these cases around productivity, but really the application of AI is not just app. 00:26:54.662 --> 00:27:07.741 It is not just implementing the technology, but it's implementing the culture surrounding the technology that people use, the time, space, and outputs from that technology in a different way to what they. 00:27:08.192 --> 00:27:08.821 Do today. 00:27:09.092 --> 00:27:10.682 That's part of the implementation.

00:27:10.682 --> 00:27:16.112 It's not just a, we're gonna put some tech in and then leave everyone to it and hey presto, it will all work. 00:27:16.592 --> 00:27:17.102 Exactly. 00:27:17.102 --> 00:27:24.122 And I think a lot of organisations will still be thinking, oh, we'll put tech in 20% saving, or that's, is that 20% staff saving? 00:27:24.122 --> 00:27:25.142 Shall I get rid of staff? 00:27:25.501 --> 00:27:26.791 That isn't what this is about. 00:27:26.852 --> 00:27:31.051 This is about releasing time to actually take the learning and do something with it. 00:27:31.442 --> 00:27:33.842 Because a lot of organisations are stuck with faf. 00:27:34.576 --> 00:27:35.866 It's my favorite term, faff. 00:27:37.037 --> 00:27:49.366 and it faff is just those things that are inefficient and people are doing them spend, and you get some bright people, bright young people are just spending time doing tasks that we could get, AI and other organ, other tech to do better. 00:27:49.876 --> 00:27:52.037 But that doesn't mean you lose those people. 00:27:52.037 --> 00:27:52.096 Yeah. 00:27:52.096 --> 00:27:55.696 You say, actually wouldn't it be great if they spent some time just with those members? 00:27:55.846 --> 00:27:56.086 Yeah. 00:27:56.356 --> 00:28:03.707 spending some time talking to them, getting to know them, spending time, creating great products, great solutions for their, for what they need. 00:28:04.757 --> 00:28:05.686 that's what it's about. 00:28:05.686 --> 00:28:09.737 It's about renegotiating how we use, resource. 00:28:09.836 --> 00:28:13.227 It's really important that culture change happens in the membership sector. 00:28:13.616 --> 00:28:15.807 'cause at the moment, they will see it as a cost saving. 00:28:16.152 --> 00:28:17.623 Yeah, they need to, not, nothing 00:28:18.281 --> 00:28:18.432 that way. 00:28:18.432 --> 00:28:19.842 I think it's, being seen as a cost saving everywhere right now. 00:28:19.902 --> 00:28:25.152 But I think the reality is, whilst we go through this transition, people are seeing some quick wins. 00:28:25.932 --> 00:28:30.402 oh look, I don't need as many people here, so I don't need to replace certain roles. 00:28:30.402 --> 00:28:35.951 But I'm seeing a lot of that in the past kind of year or so, and I think we'll continue to see that over the next couple of years. 00:28:35.951 --> 00:28:39.461 But there's gonna come a time where it'll be a level playing field. 00:28:39.701 --> 00:28:40.991 Everybody's efficient now. 00:28:41.457 --> 00:28:42.446 So what comes next? 00:28:42.717 --> 00:28:43.017 Yeah. 00:28:43.557 --> 00:28:46.616 Now, we can start focusing on actually being creative. 00:28:46.646 --> 00:28:48.596 'cause that's the bit that's missing from ai. 00:28:48.807 --> 00:28:51.717 And really start focusing on producing stuff. 00:28:51.747 --> 00:28:51.807 Yeah. 00:28:51.836 --> 00:28:56.606 Rather than being efficient, it's actually being productive and deli delivering actual outcomes. 00:28:56.666

--> 00:28:56.846 Yeah. 00:28:57.416 --> 00:29:06.386 but I think whilst we go through this, there, there is a lot of noise around, cost saving and getting rid of humans and all of that good stuff. 00:29:06.386 --> 00:29:09.146 and I think that we'll settle down I think in the next couple of years. 00:29:09.596 --> 00:29:15.717 so it just Talking about the implementation of AI and what AI can do in that membership space. 00:29:15.747 --> 00:29:23.366 What kind of use cases, what kind of, improvements or, changes are you talking to? 00:29:23.366 --> 00:29:24.237 clients about? 00:29:25.076 --> 00:29:28.196 experimenting with what can, if somebody was to go, yeah. 00:29:28.196 --> 00:29:29.576 All right, we'll, take a look at agen. 00:29:30.807 --> 00:29:32.126 we will put some AI in. 00:29:32.126 --> 00:29:36.866 What kind of things would you be deploying this technology to do? 00:29:37.346 --> 00:29:38.037 Yeah, absolutely. 00:29:38.037 --> 00:29:42.596 I've got a few sort of ideas in terms of things that I would've loved to be able to do when I was at. 00:29:43.737 --> 00:29:45.747 I'm developing Mary, the library bot. 00:29:46.166 --> 00:29:54.896 So at the moment if you go into an organisation and you want to get some data or get some articles or content from there,'cause you've got a report to do and you just need this. 00:29:55.196 --> 00:29:58.616 These stats or you need, to write up some information, wouldn't it? 00:29:58.616 --> 00:29:58.797 Great. 00:29:58.797 --> 00:29:59.696 You can chat to Mary. 00:29:59.727 --> 00:30:06.686 Now that came back to me that I remember in my very early days as a student at the Charting Charted Institute of Marketing Cookham Hall. 00:30:06.686 --> 00:30:13.196 I could ring up the library there and I go, Mary, I need an article and such, and she'd go off, she'd find it, photocopy And send it to me. 00:30:14.336 --> 00:30:15.686 why can't we have that today? 00:30:15.926 --> 00:30:19.317 Why can't we have Mary going in looking at all The contents? 00:30:19.317 --> 00:30:25.856 And here's five great articles and actually specifically this paragraph, and this paragraph, I think is really relevant to what you're trying to do. 00:30:26.457 --> 00:30:27.086 That's brilliant. 00:30:27.237 --> 00:30:29.696 People say, I can do that on chat GPT. 00:30:29.997 --> 00:30:31.886 You can, but you go back to Worldwide web. 00:30:32.426 --> 00:30:36.957 You want to still go into your organisation and know that content's been. 00:30:37.362 --> 00:30:37.721 It's been. 00:30:37.721 --> 00:30:38.352 curated. 00:30:38.412 --> 00:30:39.251 it's correct. 00:30:39.311 --> 00:30:49.211 And that's where the actual expertise comes from the membership organisations But a accessing articles is really hard now, in, mo in a lot of cases. 00:30:50.967 --> 00:31:03.477 I think one of the big challenges that some of the charities and the sort of B2C memberships, national Trust, wooden Trust, wildlife Trust have is quite often that their recruitment is very much based on a one-to-one conversation. 00:31:03.656 --> 00:31:05.096 You've all seen them at shows. 00:31:05.096 --> 00:31:05.156 Yeah. 00:31:05.156 --> 00:31:05.787 Little tents. 00:31:05.817 --> 00:31:06.656 Somebody comes up to you with a. 00:31:06.656 --> 00:31:09.836 clipboard, that's really expensive recruitment for them. 00:31:10.701 --> 00:31:13.582 wouldn't it be great That you could go on the website and it go, oh, hi. 00:31:13.912 --> 00:31:14.602 Are you interested? 00:31:14.902 --> 00:31:15.531 Where do you, live? 00:31:15.561 --> 00:31:16.432 Oh, you live in Bristol. 00:31:16.432 --> 00:31:16.942 Brilliant. 00:31:17.721 --> 00:31:24.082 what you into, I'm really interested in, finding out how to volunteer and suddenly it would then have the, conversation. 00:31:24.082 --> 00:31:25.521 It would produce some stuff for you. 00:31:25.521 --> 00:31:27.682 Would you like to know how to sign up? 00:31:27.682 --> 00:31:28.461 Would you like to sign up now? 00:31:29.156 --> 00:31:30.686 And you can have that dialogue. 00:31:30.686 --> 00:31:32.247 Now with ai you couldn't. 00:31:32.307 --> 00:31:36.176 Other than that, yeah, you'd have to go to a page, wouldn't you, on a website And find your way through it. 00:31:36.297 --> 00:31:36.477 Yeah. 00:31:36.477 --> 00:31:37.406 You're almost curating it. 00:31:37.517 --> 00:31:43.467 I just remember when I, first joined the, when my daughter was little, we joined the National Trust, to have some extra days out. 00:31:43.497 --> 00:31:46.707 it's never something I'd ever thought about doing in my life, but I signed up for this thing. 00:31:47.247 --> 00:31:56.007 But what I found was I got this really thick book that came through the post, And then I, had to thumb through to figure out what ones are closest to me if I was going somewhere. 00:31:56.471 --> 00:31:59.021 Go and figure out where there might be a, particular property. 00:31:59.051 --> 00:32:03.402 And I, sat there thinking, wouldn't it be great if it would just curate for me? 00:32:03.942 --> 00:32:07.362 In a really simple way, here are the ones that are closest to you. 00:32:07.872 --> 00:32:15.852 We recommend starting with this one, and this one and then, if I was traveling somewhere, I could refer to the site and go what's closest to where I'm traveling? 00:32:15.852 --> 00:32:17.711 And it goes, oh, actually there's one on the way here. 00:32:18.041 --> 00:32:18.491 So I, I. 00:32:19.132 --> 00:32:22.521 I can, see where that would have a really strong application. 00:32:23.182 --> 00:32:28.487 Wouldn't, it be great then that your children are really into Henry VIII and they produce a worksheet on the fly for you Yeah. 00:32:28.491 --> 00:32:28.501 Yeah. 00:32:28.501 --> 00:32:33.051 that they could take around the property and that's the sort of area that this AI can start to do. 00:32:33.652 --> 00:32:35.902 it can be a one-to-one advisor. 00:32:36.082 --> 00:32:36.412 Yeah. 00:32:36.412 --> 00:32:38.811

Actually, take it stage further the whole. 00:32:39.326 --> 00:32:48.297 And then when you've got young kids in The summer, holidays come up, you're like, God, what do I do with them during the summer to be able to do that And then it, it curates that kind of, here are three places to go visit. 00:32:48.297 --> 00:32:49.826 Here's three worksheets to go with it. 00:32:49.826 --> 00:32:54.116 Here's some activities and you get that is really great. 00:32:54.596 --> 00:32:58.317 what else are you, what else is AI helping with or GenAI helping? 00:32:58.317 --> 00:32:58.586 So it's 00:32:58.586 --> 00:32:59.487 definitely helping the data. 00:32:59.487 --> 00:33:04.646 We've mentioned that, the insight to be able to do that and hyper personalised communication. 00:33:05.517 --> 00:33:08.336 knowing what's gonna happen, and knowing what they're interested in. 00:33:08.336 --> 00:33:14.517 'cause as you collect that data together, you then go, oh, I know next time they go, they will want the next sheet on. 00:33:15.656 --> 00:33:18.116 Elizabeth first,'cause they've done it in the eighth, they're gone to Elizabeth first. 00:33:18.326 --> 00:33:21.836 So knowing that and preempting that is really, important. 00:33:21.836 --> 00:33:35.517 So not only can data help with your insight for predictive modeling to know where your growth trends gonna come, where potentially gonna lose people, but you can use that to then create those really personalised communications from your journey. 00:33:36.267 --> 00:33:38.217 that's really critical around ai. 00:33:38.241 --> 00:33:38.531 Yeah. 00:33:39.201 --> 00:33:39.491 Yeah. 00:33:39.497 --> 00:33:39.896 Yeah. 00:33:39.896 --> 00:33:43.047 And just linking back, I, you just reminded me of an example. 00:33:44.741 --> 00:33:44.981 Yeah. 00:33:47.501 --> 00:33:59.112 And so thinking, I was just thinking about an example, the other day, and I wrote about this on LinkedIn in the Post, there's a difference between knowing that somebody's traveled on your airplane, your bus, your coach, or whatever. 00:34:00.701 --> 00:34:04.662 and then knowing that they've had a good or poor experience. 00:34:05.217 --> 00:34:10.737 Because sometimes you see these things don't you when, okay, I know you, I know your birthday, so I'll send you a happy birthday card or something. 00:34:10.737 --> 00:34:24.552 That's personalisation People in the cost of living crisis, when people are going through their budgets, looking at where their money's going, if they don't see the value from a regular contribution that goes out, they're the ones that are gonna be prime for, let's cut that. 00:34:24.552 --> 00:34:24.554 Yeah. 00:34:26.007 --> 00:34:27.327 and, move on to something else. 00:34:27.686 --> 00:34:33.027 But if you've got value there, the stickiness, the reluctance to go, oh, I don't really want to get rid of that. 00:34:33.027 --> 00:34:34.137 'cause we get value from it. 00:34:35.367 --> 00:34:35.996 is important. 00:34:36.117 --> 00:34:38.007 It's really interesting cause you're absolutely right. 00:34:38.007 --> 00:34:41.067 So many, members, I told them about that when they joined. 00:34:41.472 --> 00:34:43.512 Yeah, but we've all got very short memories. 00:34:43.512 --> 00:34:44.442 We're never gonna remember that. 00:34:44.802 --> 00:34:48.342 So please keep reminding members that you are, that you, what value you offer. 00:34:48.972 --> 00:34:51.731 and also remind them about things that are relevant to them. 00:34:52.422 --> 00:34:55.152 lots of organisations I worked with one organisation many years ago, he said. 00:34:55.152 --> 00:34:57.882 I said tell me about your, what, you offer members. 00:34:58.001 --> 00:34:59.141 Oh, really excited. 00:34:59.262 --> 00:35:04.601 He went off and got me an a four page, two columns on both sides of all the benefits I read the first five and my. 00:35:04.862 --> 00:35:05.402 I ticked off. 00:35:05.942 --> 00:35:11.762 So there was a lot of benefits, but sometimes there's too many and you've gotta find the, right ones for the right people. 00:35:12.331 --> 00:35:13.411 So that's really important. 00:35:13.411 --> 00:35:14.552 That's, that's a great point. 00:35:14.552 --> 00:35:19.922 I was just looking at, memberships for the, Oval Cricket ground recently, and they've got literally. 00:35:20.371 --> 00:35:27.902 12 to 15 different memberships and each one's got like a long list of features and capable offers that you get with each membership. 00:35:28.081 --> 00:35:29.822 And, I, lost interest halfway through. 00:35:29.911 --> 00:35:31.112 I was like this is too much. 00:35:31.172 --> 00:35:32.641 Yeah, just keep it simple. 00:35:32.641 --> 00:35:33.751 it should just be three tiers. 00:35:33.751 --> 00:35:35.521 Like it shouldn't be any more than that in, in my 00:35:35.521 --> 00:35:35.762 view. 00:35:35.942 --> 00:35:36.992 Or there should be a way that. 00:35:38.072 --> 00:35:43.592 you can input some information about yourself and it tailors the benefits to what's important to you, right? 00:35:43.592 --> 00:35:44.402 Yeah, because, okay. 00:35:44.402 --> 00:35:47.731 Look, you can have the longest list you like of all the benefits. 00:35:48.686 --> 00:35:52.077 But the best of times, probably only two or three are gonna be relevant to you. 00:35:52.106 --> 00:36:04.197 And maybe at the time of joining, like for example, if you had lots of, some health companies now include as part of their membership scheme, include a virtual GP appointment, right? 00:36:04.556 --> 00:36:08.936 So during COVID ID that was brilliant because you couldn't get to see a gp, you could do that. 00:36:09.266 --> 00:36:13.436 Or if you've got young children, that might be more of a benefit as you see, you can get into see the doctor quickly, but. 00:36:14.186 --> 00:36:22.469 For some of us, it might not be that big a benefit because We might not be in a position where we need to have access to a GP at the a drop of a hat or something.

00:36:23.369 --> 00:36:31.588 so within those benefits it's again, personalising and learning about your database and learning about your members to go, okay, they haven't visited. 00:36:31.588 --> 00:36:32.548 We know this about them. 00:36:32.668 --> 00:36:35.548 Let's talk to them about this that seems relevant. 00:36:36.068 --> 00:36:42.728 To their lifestyle or this that seems, that might nudge them into, to using said membership or whatever. 00:36:43.748 --> 00:36:54.728 Yeah, The, it's absolutely that, and I think we're going back to that agent advisor, if you were talking to a one-to-one sales person, they, talk to you and say, yeah, so what's, interesting to you? 00:36:54.728 --> 00:36:55.509 what do you need? 00:36:55.628 --> 00:36:57.938 And then they personalise that conversation back to them. 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:01.768 So why not use an agentic bot to do that conversation? 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:03.869 That could have that same conversation with you? 00:37:03.929 --> 00:37:04.409 Yeah. 00:37:04.414 --> 00:37:04.434 Yeah. 00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:06.628 Online rather than you having to go to the website. 00:37:07.213 --> 00:37:08.983 With your 15 different categories. 00:37:09.103 --> 00:37:09.164 Yeah. 00:37:09.193 --> 00:37:10.693 Why don't they say, what are you interested? 00:37:10.693 --> 00:37:13.753 Actually, we'd recommend this is the best one for you. 00:37:15.204 --> 00:37:16.304 and help you to Do it. 00:37:16.514 --> 00:37:21.614 So there's so much we can get technology to help with it, but it does need humans. 00:37:21.614 --> 00:37:25.664 It needs us to think this through and understand what those are, and then use some. 00:37:25.664 --> 00:37:28.123 of that data to, ah, that's really interesting. 00:37:28.184 --> 00:37:29.324 We thought that was right. 00:37:29.353 --> 00:37:32.083 But now looking at it, those, that data's selling us something different. 00:37:32.804 --> 00:37:33.974 let's tweak, let's change. 00:37:34.164 --> 00:37:34.704 Nots all. 00:37:35.003 --> 00:37:35.693 that's the membership. 00:37:35.693 --> 00:37:37.824 We have that like that 25 years ago. 00:37:37.824 --> 00:37:40.284 and that's what gold membership is We're not changing it. 00:37:40.284 --> 00:37:41.244 Yeah, they don't. 00:37:41.244 --> 00:37:41.603 They're not. 00:37:41.603 --> 00:37:41.994 They're not. 00:37:42.148 --> 00:37:44.483 And they're, they find moving like the Titanic. 00:37:44.844 --> 00:37:45.864 It's very hard to move. 00:37:45.864 --> 00:37:47.753 Sometimes we need to be more flexible. 00:37:47.903 --> 00:37:50.063 So Mel people might be listening to, yeah, okay. 00:37:50.184 --> 00:37:52.164 We get the te we get that we gotta use technology. 00:37:52.164 --> 00:37:57.293 We get that AI is a thing, but there's a fear isn't there, of how do we do that? 00:37:57.594 --> 00:38:00.893 Is there like, I don't know, a step by step guide or some. 00:38:01.829 --> 00:38:14.699 Some key tips that you would give membership organisations or other organisations listening to this thinking, yeah, we've seen Agentic ai, our CTOs spoken about it, or someone went to a conference and came back all excited about it. 00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:16.143 But how 00:38:17.248 --> 00:38:18.059 AI's huge. 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:22.409 You know when people say, oh yeah, we are using ai, we are using chatGPT as a virtual assistant. 00:38:22.469 --> 00:38:22.949 Oh, great. 00:38:23.369 --> 00:38:34.829 And they, that's what they can't see the potential of it, because AI is a bit like, I can't even describe anything that's in the world that we've had like this, but the web, but it's, huge that it, there's lots of applications for using ai. 00:38:35.608 --> 00:38:36.298 and I think. 00:38:36.643 --> 00:38:40.873 At the moment, it's so big and it's so nebulous that people go, oh, I just, I'll just move around it. 00:38:41.023 --> 00:38:41.804 I'll just avoid it. 00:38:42.373 --> 00:38:46.063 but we've actually got enough problem with our data, so I can't do anything because I've gotta get data sorted. 00:38:47.023 --> 00:38:51.793 I can help with that So I think what happens is it's going back to my f list. 00:38:51.793 --> 00:38:56.114 It's going back and just spending time viewing and exploring what you're already doing. 00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:58.349 And just saying, where are your pain points? 00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.278 Where's your pain points? 00:38:59.278 --> 00:39:00.208 Where you got trouble? 00:39:00.418 --> 00:39:05.548 is it the renewals or is it that you can't, that you've got members that you can't understand what they want And they don't need? 00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:06.929 What are those challenges? 00:39:06.929 --> 00:39:09.478 It doesn't matter if it's a or tech that's solving the problem. 00:39:09.748 --> 00:39:11.608 You should do a really good review. 00:39:12.208 --> 00:39:12.509 good. 00:39:13.018 --> 00:39:13.768 where are we now? 00:39:14.188 --> 00:39:15.809 Where are, where, what's happening in the business? 00:39:15.809 --> 00:39:16.798 What's good what's bad? 00:39:17.548 --> 00:39:18.778 What's, a pain point for us? 00:39:19.228 --> 00:39:22.498 And then take that pain point and then consider a small bit of tech. 00:39:22.498 --> 00:39:25.648 If there is, or it might not be tech, it could be something else, and. 00:39:26.338 --> 00:39:30.838 Look at that individually, because at the moment everybody's trying to get AI that it's so big. 00:39:30.869 --> 00:39:37.438 Just take off one little challenge, one pro, pain point that you have and see if you can, apply it. 00:39:37.438 --> 00:39:42.539 So it could be that actually, joining online on your website is a real pain. 00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:44.068 Nobody can find the right pages. 00:39:44.068 --> 00:39:45.179 We get a lot of attrition. 00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:48.509 Nobody really gets in there and we are not converting people online. 00:39:49.213 --> 00:40:09.134 sit back and see if there's a way of using an

advisor that can start to have a dialogue with your members, or if it's people going, we always getting calls and, people can't renew and they want to renew at 10 o'clock at night and they can't, can you make it easy to renew online by using some AI technology that we'll send a, little advisor to the phone? 00:40:09.494 --> 00:40:13.844 One of the biggest pain points that membership organisations have is, obviously retention. 00:40:14.264 --> 00:40:16.213 Biggest reason why people don't renew. 00:40:17.369 --> 00:40:18.389 They didn't get round to it. 00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:19.679 They forgot. 00:40:20.278 --> 00:40:25.648 So if you are not on direct debit, and we'll, talk about some of the issues about automatic renewals in the middle, I'm sure. 00:40:25.648 --> 00:40:31.559 But if you're not on direct debit you, which automatically renews when you don't realize, oh, okay. 00:40:31.648 --> 00:40:32.338 That's gone through. 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.208 Which is good for membership organisations not great for engagement. 00:40:37.048 --> 00:40:40.349 But if you're not and you are relying on somebody to fill that paper form. 00:40:41.579 --> 00:40:44.818 or to actually go on and do something, people forget. 00:40:45.688 --> 00:40:46.739 They don't get round to it. 00:40:46.889 --> 00:40:47.369 Yeah. 00:40:47.878 --> 00:40:48.809 and It's interesting. 00:40:49.648 --> 00:40:53.759 It is gonna be my next point actually, because there is some change coming to the industry. 00:40:54.838 --> 00:40:59.159 that's going to force a lot of membership organisations to think differently. 00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:00.389 it's. 00:41:00.793 --> 00:41:02.594 Potentially their GDPR moment. 00:41:03.344 --> 00:41:05.233 just tell us a bit more about what's coming down the track. 00:41:07.393 --> 00:41:15.253 this, year there's been a, new act in, engaged called the D the DMCC act, the Digital Marketing Competition and Consumers Act. 00:41:16.123 --> 00:41:23.773 this has been developed over the last few years and, it's been initiated by some bad practice, within. 00:41:24.329 --> 00:41:26.429 Maybe membership made more often. 00:41:26.429 --> 00:41:38.909 The subscription market, those organisations that have caught you into subscription and you get stuck in it and you can't get out of It and that's created, a great deal of angst, around consumers. 00:41:38.909 --> 00:41:43.858 And so that has got to, government and they are, introducing this new a it was passed this year. 00:41:43.858 --> 00:41:45.509 it will be implemented next year. 00:41:46.378 --> 00:41:50.128 the critical things around that are, is that auto renewal payments. 00:41:50.534 --> 00:41:59.324 So whether you're a membership organisation or a subscription business, you will have to have much clearer, transparent, renewal and joining processes. 00:41:59.713 --> 00:42:05.414 You'll have to let people know much, much in a much clearer way that your renewals are coming. 00:42:05.744 --> 00:42:09.793 and

making sure you give people a very easy opportunity to opt out. 00:42:10.528 --> 00:42:18.748 So you must have optout very, you can online, if you joined online, you need to be able to cancel online without having to ring fight through different systems. 00:42:18.809 --> 00:42:19.829 So there's that coming. 00:42:20.818 --> 00:42:26.489 you'll need to do all kinds of things in terms of the way you produce your offers and making sure they're very much more clearer. 00:42:26.909 --> 00:42:27.929 Now the membership is. 00:42:28.784 --> 00:42:31.514 sector predominantly does do a regular renewals. 00:42:32.744 --> 00:42:34.693 and so I think that's less of worries. 00:42:34.844 --> 00:42:37.664 But there's also, more cooling off periods. 00:42:37.724 --> 00:42:45.943 So there'll be cooling off periods right at the beginning, which you get with direct debit anyway, but every year you renew, you allow the renewal, cooling off period. 00:42:46.333 --> 00:42:47.414 Which isn't currently. 00:42:47.414 --> 00:42:48.704 That's new, isn't it That's new. 00:42:48.704 --> 00:42:48.914 Yeah. 00:42:50.324 --> 00:42:55.543 a lot of the bad practices, bad marketing that's been going on will, will come under micro microscope. 00:42:55.934 --> 00:42:56.923 and there's big fines. 00:42:56.923 --> 00:42:58.514 They're bigger than GDPR fines. 00:42:58.574 --> 00:42:58.873 Yeah. 00:42:59.293 --> 00:43:02.744 So there is a lot, but nobody in the membership sector knows about this. 00:43:03.463 --> 00:43:05.204 I only heard about it a few months ago. 00:43:06.764 --> 00:43:13.929 some of the big charities are very worried because they're worried that people will then join, use their services for a couple of weeks and then cancel them. 00:43:13.929 --> 00:43:14.329 Cancel, yeah. 00:43:14.688 --> 00:43:14.849 Yeah. 00:43:15.313 --> 00:43:18.673 which it could happen now, but it's the raising the awareness of that. 00:43:18.704 --> 00:43:18.764 Yeah. 00:43:19.514 --> 00:43:22.034 lots of them, you can't, or to cancel 00:43:22.393 --> 00:43:24.914 this may, this will surely make it more difficult then, isn't it? 00:43:24.914 --> 00:43:30.373 Just going back to your point around, losing customers because they've forgotten to renew. 00:43:30.778 --> 00:43:38.159 Now there's more of an excuse to get out of that membership because we've got these policies and regulations that protects our consumer. 00:43:38.398 --> 00:43:45.119 Which is great for the consumer standpoint, but that's gonna have to change the way these organisations behave, the way they sell their services. 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:55.199 the way they are more proactive in making sure that they're engaged to, to a level that, Guarantees That renewal, that retention, for, that particular customer. 00:43:55.378 --> 00:43:56.248 yeah, it's interesting to see. 00:43:56.579 --> 00:44:01.438 I guess with this now, is this, regulation in place? 00:44:01.858 --> 00:44:02.963 Is it, why it, 00:44:03.128 --> 00:44:08.489 it, so

they've finished the consult consultation in February, although it's already been passed. 00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:15.148 and some of the big organisations like the English Heritage and National Trust are hoping there's gonna be some exemptions for them. 00:44:15.884 --> 00:44:19.273 on some of the, on some of the areas in the at, they've heard nothing. 00:44:19.333 --> 00:44:23.143 So as far as they're concerned at the moment, it's going ahead and it will be implemented by you. 00:44:23.143 --> 00:44:25.909 You'll need to be compliant by next spring 22, 25. 00:44:25.914 --> 00:44:26.264 Okay. 00:44:27.583 --> 00:44:29.804 at this point we haven't got any more, it's a bit like GDPR. 00:44:29.804 --> 00:44:30.764 It's all a bit vague. 00:44:30.764 --> 00:44:33.463 You're not really quite sure, but you're absolutely right. 00:44:33.494 --> 00:44:35.353 It's all about engagement. 00:44:35.353 --> 00:44:39.583 It's all about you being much more proactive and valuing your membership relationship. 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.489 You need to give that benefit. 00:44:41.489 --> 00:44:41.668 Yeah, 00:44:42.268 --> 00:44:43.048 it, makes it important. 00:44:43.349 --> 00:44:47.188 we always talk about, there, are two motivators for change, pleasure, and pain. 00:44:47.188 --> 00:44:50.728 It's either to move away from some pain or move toward, towards pleasure. 00:44:50.728 --> 00:44:56.789 And I guess if there isn't a motivation yet for organisations to do this, it's coming down the track. 00:44:56.789 --> 00:45:02.639 So they're gonna have to convey value more strongly, understand more about their customers, work harder. 00:45:03.193 --> 00:45:19.543 Because if customers have now got an easier way to get out, it's, when you think about mobile phones, you went back in the day when you first had your mobile phone, you get signed into a 12 month contract or a 18 month contract, and then sim only deals have come along and now it's become easy to just move from provider to provider. 00:45:20.833 --> 00:45:25.634 So organisations have to work harder to keep, people locked in. 00:45:25.634 --> 00:45:25.693 Yeah. 00:45:26.744 --> 00:45:28.634 to want to get'em to want to stay. 00:45:28.934 --> 00:45:32.293 I guess they have to try harder to capture them. 00:45:32.938 --> 00:45:34.318 Instead of having captive. 00:45:35.114 --> 00:45:37.213 Trapped customers who can't get out of stuff. 00:45:37.244 --> 00:45:38.114 'cause that's not loyalty. 00:45:38.114 --> 00:45:42.103 I, think sometimes people mistake the Oh, they're still with us as loyalty. 00:45:42.284 --> 00:45:42.344 Yeah. 00:45:43.333 --> 00:45:45.914 customers are with you because they haven't found a better option yet. 00:45:46.063 --> 00:45:46.213 Yeah. 00:45:46.244 --> 00:45:49.454 Or you don't have a way for them to get out and move to somebody else yet. 00:45:49.634 --> 00:45:49.873 Yeah. 00:45:49.873 --> 00:45:50.804 And they take advantage. 00:45:51.014 --> 00:45:59.264 and you understand like just on the mobile example, like there's this huge shift to eims for instance now, there, there's no physical sim required anymore. 00:45:59.264 --> 00:46:03.704 So that that means there's, less friction to be able to move between different Yeah. 00:46:03.744 --> 00:46:04.523 Different providers. 00:46:04.583 --> 00:46:07.284 And that's why, again, goes back to that value point. 00:46:07.284 --> 00:46:10.884 It's how, do you provide more and more value? 00:46:10.884 --> 00:46:21.414 And it puts pressure on these organisations I feel for, I'll feel for'em because it's very competitive, when you're trying to, particularly when you're a business trying to sell a service, it's you have to think on your toes now. 00:46:21.414 --> 00:46:25.463 And, because the technology is just changing things for everybody. 00:46:25.463 --> 00:46:30.443 The way we consume information and services has completely changed the game, hasn't it? 00:46:30.443 --> 00:46:36.289 I, I guess the good ones will keep doing great stuff and already complete, have things in place. 00:46:36.648 --> 00:46:43.998 But I think it calls out those that have been a bit less resting on the laurels have just taken the fact that people just pay out of a direct debit. 00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:51.108 That's, it's gonna bring into sharp focus and hopefully they will start looking at their data more to understand if there's a certain drop off or whatever. 00:46:51.349 --> 00:46:53.208 start thinking about what can you do now? 00:46:53.208 --> 00:46:53.268 Yeah. 00:46:53.268 --> 00:46:57.648 to start to really activate your membership base and deliver more value. 00:46:57.708 --> 00:46:59.298 'cause that's what people are looking for. 00:47:01.048 --> 00:47:02.548 and That then that creates a stickiness. 00:47:02.548 --> 00:47:07.588 So just to, to wrap us off,'cause we are, we're almost out time. 00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:08.728 Really quickly. 00:47:08.728 --> 00:47:13.018 What does the ideal membership experience look like in the next five to 10 years? 00:47:13.018 --> 00:47:15.659 I know we've covered bits of it now, but is there anything that you see that you? 00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:20.248 go here's another thing that we haven't quite talked about there. 00:47:20.248 --> 00:47:20.278 I 00:47:20.278 --> 00:47:26.248 think, nothing specific, but I think what's really interesting, a membership experience should be, twofold. 00:47:26.278 --> 00:47:28.289 It should be providing good value. 00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:29.579 Tangible value. 00:47:29.579 --> 00:47:34.798 You can say, this is this, I get what I need from this, organisation But you should also create that sense of loyalty. 00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:35.338 Yeah. 00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:39.809 You want to stay with an organisation It's not always about everything transactional. 00:47:39.989 --> 00:47:43.954 It is about you feeling part of that organisation felt, listened, felt. 00:47:44.898 --> 00:47:46.759 Part of a community that you liked. 00:47:47.028

--> 00:47:54.949 I'm proud to have my National Trust sticker on the back, or I'm really proud to be a member of this organisation And I will tell other people about it. 00:47:55.309 --> 00:47:58.429 That is where we want the ideal relationship to go with. 00:47:58.608 --> 00:48:00.679 Not that it's, oh, I get this much back. 00:48:01.248 --> 00:48:10.248 there was a big period in time where people, were offering, discount programs, oh, join us and you get 20% off here, 30% off here and whatever. 00:48:10.668 --> 00:48:12.318 Everybody can get that anywhere now. 00:48:12.838 --> 00:48:21.869 that isn't why you join an organisation You join an organisation because you want it to feel it's part of you and you're proud to be part of it, not just for a transactional. 00:48:21.869 --> 00:48:23.818 I think that's where it's got to move to. 00:48:24.059 --> 00:48:32.369 You've got to feel that it's something that I go and you'd be proud to go and tell a friend about That would be the best, relationship You could have with, a member. 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:33.418 great. 00:48:35.699 --> 00:48:36.268 so just. 00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:40.889 Key takeaways and if there's one thing, that you could share. 00:48:41.068 --> 00:48:43.318 we've talked about data, we've talked about dialogue, all these kind of things. 00:48:43.318 --> 00:48:52.139 If there's one key thing you could share that somebody come, could come off this podcast and do something immediately, what would that one thing be? 00:48:52.498 --> 00:48:55.679 I think that one thing would be just map your membership journey. 00:48:56.023 --> 00:48:59.804 Just look at who your members are and what they're doing with you and what they're not doing with you. 00:49:00.434 --> 00:49:04.304 take, there'll be a number of different sort of personas in that, or different members doing different things. 00:49:04.304 --> 00:49:05.114 Just take one. 00:49:05.353 --> 00:49:11.653 Just take one with, as a student or a new joiner, somebody, and just look at everything they are getting through that journey. 00:49:12.373 --> 00:49:15.643 whether it's tech or not, what is that experience like? 00:49:15.643 --> 00:49:23.893 You know when you start looking down and, say, ah, they've received 322 emails from us this year, and generally they don't engage with us and, oh. 00:49:24.958 --> 00:49:28.648 They, rang, they had to give for 10 minutes to get hold of somebody to be able to cancel. 00:49:29.309 --> 00:49:32.248 going back to that, just every touch point needs to be good. 00:49:32.248 --> 00:49:36.268 and even if you have a member that wants to leave, let them leave in good terms. 00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:39.239 Make them feel that they, that, we're gonna miss you. 00:49:39.268 --> 00:49:41.009 Let's, we are gonna miss you, but we're always here. 00:49:41.009 --> 00:49:41.909 The door's open. 00:49:42.179 --> 00:49:43.409 We'd love you to come back. 00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:45.958 They will tell other people about a good experience. 00:49:46.009 --> 00:49:46.338 That's true. 00:49:46.338 --> 00:49:47.248 Even it's when they leave. 00:49:47.248 --> 00:49:47.818 That is true. 00:49:47.824 --> 00:49:47.929 Yeah. 00:49:48.559 --> 00:50:00.619 and I think for me, in terms of what I've learned is one of the key things where I think organisations can make a difference is just going back to your point around dialogue, is having an established dialogue with your member. 00:50:01.789 --> 00:50:03.018 that's, something I'm yet to see. 00:50:03.108 --> 00:50:07.998 Like sporadic communications, as you say, emails get stuck in junk, but actually have a. 00:50:09.284 --> 00:50:15.403 I know people don't have time, but you've got all these digital channels in a way that you can engage Yeah. 00:50:15.403 --> 00:50:17.893 Your members through social media. 00:50:18.224 --> 00:50:28.903 Of course, email is one of those, maybe even a phone call now and then, if they, if they're opt in, that is it's, I think if you do listen. 00:50:29.338 --> 00:50:35.009 And have that two-way conversation, then I think that can then, deliver the outcomes that you've just mentioned there. 00:50:35.608 --> 00:50:36.028 Absolutely. 00:50:36.268 --> 00:50:36.568 Totally. 00:50:36.809 --> 00:50:37.108 Great. 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:38.969 Mel, thank you so much for coming today. 00:50:39.208 --> 00:50:43.023 If people would like to get in touch, how can they find you Where should they go? 00:50:43.704 --> 00:50:43.824 I. 00:50:44.353 --> 00:50:45.494 tell our listeners where to find you. 00:50:45.793 --> 00:50:51.643 Yeah, so please visit us@ww.agenticconsulting.co uk. 00:50:52.123 --> 00:50:54.943 that's our web address and you'll find some really useful resources on there. 00:50:54.943 --> 00:50:59.893 We've got some templates, we've got some great, articles and stuff around the DMCC Act specifically. 00:51:00.103 --> 00:51:03.014 So if you've not heard of that, that please go and visit that resource. 00:51:03.614 --> 00:51:06.403 and we've got any questions, it's easy to get on touch with us there. 00:51:06.704 --> 00:51:07.003 Great. 00:51:07.213 --> 00:51:09.853 we'll include the links on the description to this podcast. 00:51:10.514 --> 00:51:11.684 Mel, thank you very much. 00:51:11.684 --> 00:51:17.054 Once again, thank you for, for joining us, for another great episode of Breaking a Blueprint. 00:51:18.014 --> 00:51:20.474 And, yeah, next up, what do we have? 00:51:20.474 --> 00:51:28.393 We've got a couple of exciting things in the pipeline, won't revealed that just yet'cause we're working on some, some really interesting conversations. 00:51:28.903 --> 00:51:29.804 but until the next time. 00:51:30.903 --> 00:51:31.063 subscribe. 00:51:31.063 --> 00:51:31.465 Don't forget, subscribe. 00:51:31.824 --> 00:51:32.143 Sorry. 00:51:32.153 --> 00:51:33.143 Don't forget, subscribe. 00:51:33.929 --> 00:51:35.338 I need to get this game, get together. 00:51:35.969 --> 00:51:37.259 Need to be a pro podcaster. 00:51:37.648 --> 00:51:39.838 yeah, don't forget to subscribe, share, tell your friends. 00:51:39.838 --> 00:51:46.079 If you've enjoyed this podcast, please send us your questions, comments, and until the next time, we'll speak to you soon. 00:51:46.949 --> 00:51:47.248 Thank you.