บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ The Racers Roundtable: Slammin' Sammy Swindell!

it's grown over the 68 00:03:32,290 --> 00:03:36,250 last 50 years since the Williams Grove Alzheimer's was um, established. 69 00:03:36,310 --> 00:03:37,720 We've got some great pieces here. 70 00:03:37,779 --> 00:03:40,329 Speaking of great pieces, if you're looking for some of Sammy's 71 00:03:40,329 --> 00:03:43,510 cars, I think they're pretty well displayed out at the, uh, museum of 72 00:03:43,510 --> 00:03:45,370 America's speed in Lincoln, Nebraska. 73 00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:47,109 They still have that going on with them. 74 00:03:47,114 --> 00:03:47,529 Yeah, yeah. 75 00:03:47,529 --> 00:03:48,940 There's still a few cars out there. 76 00:03:49,029 --> 00:03:49,359 Yeah. 77 00:03:49,390 --> 00:03:52,420 Sometimes they move them to different places, but I think 78 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:53,440 there's three or four there. 79 00:03:53,649 --> 00:03:53,890 Yeah. 80 00:03:53,890 --> 00:03:56,320 Um, we're hoping to get some more out soon. 81 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:56,859 Good. 82 00:03:57,310 --> 00:03:57,700 Some of. 83 00:03:58,090 --> 00:03:59,290 Go in and out of there. 84 00:03:59,440 --> 00:03:59,710 Yeah. 85 00:03:59,740 --> 00:04:02,410 Well, Sammy, let's, uh, let's take a walk back in time. 86 00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:04,150 Talk about your early years, man. 87 00:04:04,150 --> 00:04:05,920 You've been at this so long now. 88 00:04:06,250 --> 00:04:09,670 Your dad was the guy that was involved in racing down in the Memphis area? 89 00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:13,360 Well, he started racing the same year I was born was at the racetrack, 90 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,040 like a few days after that. 91 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:16,660 He had done real well there. 92 00:04:16,660 --> 00:04:16,780 Mm-hmm. 93 00:04:17,230 --> 00:04:19,990 Once a lot of the championships right around there. 94 00:04:20,170 --> 00:04:24,610 Mostly in the, the sprint cars were the A class and the modifieds were the B and 95 00:04:24,610 --> 00:04:26,680 the late miles for a C called the C car. 96 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,160 So he ran, the ones he built were B cars that he ran most of the time, 97 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,050 but he ran all three of them at one point there for quite a few years. 98 00:04:35,050 --> 00:04:38,260 He ran the Memphis Race Car Club, was the president there. 99 00:04:38,260 --> 00:04:38,270 So. 100 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:42,090 Got to go to the racetrack and we'd go to the meetings and all the different things. 101 00:04:42,090 --> 00:04:46,500 So I got to see a lot about how everything works from him building 102 00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:50,460 the cars and building motors and stuff and through every part of it. 103 00:04:50,460 --> 00:04:52,920 And you know, and I was always interested in everything. 104 00:04:53,490 --> 00:04:55,650 You self described tinkerer, is that right? 105 00:04:55,860 --> 00:05:00,600 Yeah, and sometimes I too much, I spend too much time on details, 106 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,040 but I like it to be right. 107

00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:02,340 So. 108 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:08,159 By the time I was 15, you know, they, they had a little practice earlier and the year 109 00:05:08,159 --> 00:05:12,489 the track was open up in Milan, Tennessee, and we went up there and ran and, and 110 00:05:12,719 --> 00:05:14,250 everybody thought it did pretty good. 111 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:18,450 He was building another car, didn't get it finished till like the first part of July. 112 00:05:18,539 --> 00:05:18,870 Okay. 113 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:21,000 So that's when I started in 71. 114 00:05:21,179 --> 00:05:24,659 We went to Milan but he'd crashed the car and we got there late 115 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:26,280 'cause we were working on his car. 116 00:05:26,370 --> 00:05:30,065 I got in and expected it to be kinda like it was and it, and it wasn't. 117 00:05:30,065 --> 00:05:30,304 Yeah. 118 00:05:30,310 --> 00:05:34,349 And um, we found out the steering had a tooth broke in it, but mm-hmm. 119 00:05:34,365 --> 00:05:37,020 You know, we got there a little late, but they pushed us out and we both got 120 00:05:37,020 --> 00:05:39,719 to make some laps to qualify so, or time. 121 00:05:39,719 --> 00:05:43,770 So it kind of hit the fence over here and was over there and Yeah. 122 00:05:43,919 --> 00:05:45,210 It's like something's not right. 123 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,679 Something's not quite right. 124 00:05:46,679 --> 00:05:46,770 Yeah. 125 00:05:46,885 --> 00:05:50,039 So, so I didn't get to run the very first night I run second 126 00:05:50,039 --> 00:05:51,390 night out things went much better. 127 00:05:51,390 --> 00:05:51,539 Right. 128 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:52,020 Yeah. 129 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:54,810 The second night, 'cause it was fourth July weekend, they ran 130 00:05:54,810 --> 00:05:56,849 Friday and Saturday at West Memphis. 131 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,609 Friday night he ran third, not run fifth. 132 00:05:59,865 --> 00:05:59,945 Hmm. 133 00:06:00,330 --> 00:06:02,099 The next night I won. 134 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:04,590 Simple as that. 135 00:06:05,039 --> 00:06:05,370 Yeah. 136 00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:06,359 Get in the car and win. 137 00:06:06,659 --> 00:06:07,050 Yeah. 138 00:06:07,289 --> 00:06:09,479 You were sort of prepping for this though, for years. 139 00:06:09,479 --> 00:06:13,469 I mean, from an early age you were a sponge, you were absorbing this stuff. 140 00:06:13,474 --> 00:06:13,695 Yeah. 141 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:16,860 And before you even got in the car, if I remember correctly, you 142 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:19,440 were pretty well responsible for good portion of the maintenance 143 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,549 on your dad's car, weren't you? 144 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:20,940 Yeah. 145 00:06:20,940 --> 00:06:24,690 Well, I was doing a lot of the things, you know, because he worked, he was a 146 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:27,150 superintendent for commercial contractor. 147 00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:27,599 Okay. 148 00:06:27,755

--> 00:06:31,229 By the time I was 12, I was doing a lot of the maintenance on it, a lot of 149 00:06:31,229 --> 00:06:33,330 things, or I'd have things ready Yeah. 150 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:35,219 That I couldn't do for him to do. 151 00:06:35,219 --> 00:06:39,090 When he got there, started learning about how everything kind of went together. 152 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:43,469 You know, was able to build motors by the time I was probably 13. 153 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:44,039 Wow. 154 00:06:44,310 --> 00:06:47,549 Learned a lot of stuff from my uncle about the carburetors, about how to set 155 00:06:47,549 --> 00:06:51,810 those up and different things, and was with my dad working on his and doing 156 00:06:51,810 --> 00:06:54,090 the setup stuff and tire stuff for that. 157 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,650 But from the whole time since I've been around, I was always in the shop with him. 158 00:06:58,710 --> 00:06:58,890 Yeah. 159 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,620 And that's, you know, probably four or five years old. 160 00:07:01,620 --> 00:07:01,770 So. 161 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,770 He'd have me doing something that's certainly played to 162 00:07:04,770 --> 00:07:06,390 your favor over the years. 163 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:10,920 1973. Then you graduated from high school and drive a sprint car for the first time. 164 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,190 Yeah, we started running, well, I was running both the classes there. 165 00:07:14,195 --> 00:07:14,355 Mm-hmm. 166 00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:18,420 But we could run the B cars down at Greenville, Mississippi on Friday nights. 167 00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:18,900 Okay. 168 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,400 It was like the next week. 169 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:24,539 The second weekend I drove, uh, we went down and I won there and I won 170 00:07:24,539 --> 00:07:26,580 like every race down there that year. 171 00:07:26,789 --> 00:07:29,670 I don't know, it was just something that fell into my car thing. 172 00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:31,800 We were just, it was easy down there. 173 00:07:31,890 --> 00:07:35,670 But I mean, at, at at West Memphis, they, they started all the cars and 174 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:37,740 a lot of times they'd have 40 cars. 175 00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:38,340 Oh wow. 176 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:42,539 I remember starting on the front, taking off and I'd go down the back 177 00:07:42,539 --> 00:07:46,680 stretch and West Memphis isn't really big, but when you got 40 cars, there's 178 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,120 guys that still hadn't took off yet. 179 00:07:48,180 --> 00:07:48,480 Yeah. 180 00:07:48,485 --> 00:07:49,275 That could be probably that. 181 00:07:49,275 --> 00:07:51,719 So by the time I made a lap, we were in traffic. 182 00:07:51,780 --> 00:07:51,960 Yeah. 183 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:52,680 So, um. 184 00:07:52,969 --> 00:07:54,440 It was a good place to learn. 185 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,880 It was a sticky track pretty fast there with some banks, so it, it taught 186 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,719 me a lot about going to other places and, and, but I started driving the 187 00:08:02,719 --> 00:08:04,820 sprint car and it was a bit different. 188 00:08:05,150 --> 00:08:08,930 Won a few races, but we were always up near the front all the time. 189 00:08:09,050 --> 00:08:12,170 But they had a lot of really good guys there at that point. 190 00:08:12,570 --> 00:08:15,930 And some of the cars were better than one I had, but worked 191 00:08:15,930 --> 00:08:17,159 hard at it and got better. 192 00:08:17,340 --> 00:08:20,969 I think one of the common themes in your life story has been travel. 193 00:08:21,030 --> 00:08:21,810 You've been traveling. 194 00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:25,020 When you, when you started running, uh, I guess it was Bobby Sparks 195 00:08:25,020 --> 00:08:26,520 the first owner in the spring car. 196 00:08:26,525 --> 00:08:26,700 Yeah, yeah. 197 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,580 We started in, that's who ran four in 73. 198 00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:29,789 Yep. 199 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:32,610 In 74 we'd start going on Sundays. 200 00:08:32,610 --> 00:08:33,809 They ran up at Hobs spot. 201 00:08:33,929 --> 00:08:34,020 Mm-hmm. 202 00:08:34,289 --> 00:08:36,929 Which is about 300 miles north of us. 203 00:08:36,990 --> 00:08:38,429 And uh, we'd go up there. 204 00:08:38,549 --> 00:08:39,419 It didn't take long. 205 00:08:39,419 --> 00:08:43,470 We won some races there And you guys were going to Devil's Bowl in Florida? 206 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:46,980 Yeah, a lot of times we, in 74 we'd go to Devil's Bowl 'cause 207 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:48,180 they ran on Friday nights. 208 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:51,510 Go to West Memphis on Saturday and go to HubSpot on Sunday. 209 00:08:51,510 --> 00:08:52,740 So that's a few miles. 210 00:08:52,770 --> 00:08:56,050 Yeah, it is because I'm about 450 miles from. 211 00:08:56,590 --> 00:08:57,340 That was bowl. 212 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:57,700 Wow. 213 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,689 300 up there. 214 00:08:58,689 --> 00:09:01,300 So it, you're doing 6 1 1600 miles there in the weekend. 215 00:09:01,570 --> 00:09:02,080 Yeah. 216 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:07,660 Well, when you're 17, it's okay, but things got busy, uh, at West 217 00:09:07,660 --> 00:09:11,500 Memphis because as you mentioned, you're driving in a couple divisions 218 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,240 and at some stages of your career. 219 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,060 Early on, I believe you were running three divisions. 220 00:09:16,060 --> 00:09:21,430 Yeah, it was just like in probably 70, maybe the last part of 73 or 74, I 221 00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:23,740 was running the stock car late model. 222 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:24,970 There was quite a few times. 223 00:09:24,970 --> 00:09:25,840 I won all three. 224 00:09:25,930 --> 00:09:27,430 All three in the same night. 225 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:27,820 Yep. 226 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,420 So I was running a lot of laps and had to have two helmets for

that. 227 00:09:31,420 --> 00:09:34,120 Though we didn't have tear offs so much like we did then, but 228 00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:38,170 we had like two visors or pull one off and different times. 229 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:38,380 Yeah. 230 00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:39,460 A lot of times you're ducking. 231 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:40,690 It was pretty muddy down there. 232 00:09:40,690 --> 00:09:44,770 Sometimes here in this area, we're pretty Pennsylvania centric. 233 00:09:44,830 --> 00:09:47,920 There's a lot of talent, a lot happening down in that Memphis area. 234 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:50,980 Tell us about some of the folks you were racing against or maybe even some 235 00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:52,540 of the folks that you mentored with. 236 00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:53,345 They you looked up to. 237 00:09:53,845 --> 00:09:56,665 You know, when we first started traveling some there in 74, you 238 00:09:56,665 --> 00:09:58,585 know, Bubby Jones would come down. 239 00:09:58,705 --> 00:10:02,365 He drove for M Ma Brown and my dad used to race against him. 240 00:10:02,455 --> 00:10:02,545 Mm-hmm. 241 00:10:02,785 --> 00:10:06,415 Because, uh, he had a big car up there that they ran at Milam. 242 00:10:06,565 --> 00:10:06,865 Okay. 243 00:10:06,865 --> 00:10:10,975 They never really came down with that in Ma didn't, but then we had sprint cars. 244 00:10:10,975 --> 00:10:13,165 He would come down, you know, they were sponsored most of 245 00:10:13,165 --> 00:10:15,325 the time by Bruce Gel Ford. 246 00:10:15,325 --> 00:10:15,415 Mm-hmm. 247 00:10:15,685 --> 00:10:20,035 So, um, Mr. Gel come up from Alabama, got a relationship going 248 00:10:20,035 --> 00:10:21,505 there because he would come. 249 00:10:21,595 --> 00:10:23,875 That was when he was winning a lot of races with that car. 250 00:10:23,875 --> 00:10:26,995 But yeah, I was making it hard on him to win there at West Memphis. 251 00:10:26,995 --> 00:10:28,795 So, yeah, we had some pretty good races. 252 00:10:28,795 --> 00:10:31,195 He, he beat me some, but I think I beat him more. 253 00:10:31,665 --> 00:10:36,195 You know, that got me in a relationship to a ride down the road later on, 254 00:10:36,255 --> 00:10:37,695 and that was a, that was a big ride. 255 00:10:38,085 --> 00:10:40,905 I love a good quote, Sammy and I, and I'm gonna share one here with you. 256 00:10:41,115 --> 00:10:44,685 I think this is approach you've always taken, but probably it was more 257 00:10:44,685 --> 00:10:47,175 prevalent in your formidable years. 258 00:10:47,265 --> 00:10:50,415 You said people would ask, what's the best way for a young racer 259 00:10:50,415 --> 00:10:51,675 to get going in this sport? 260 00:10:51,885 --> 00:10:54,525 And your response, hang out with the best people. 261 00:10:54,585 --> 00:10:56,775 Go find the winners because you'll learn more. 262 00:10:56,895 --> 00:10:59,835 What are you gonna learn from the guys who run in the back if they 263 00:10:59,835 --> 00:11:01,305 knew enough to teach you anything? 264 00:11:01,635 --> 00:11:03,375 They wouldn't be back there in the first place. 265 00:11:03,380 --> 00:11:05,565 Yeah, it's just true. 266 00:11:08,410 --> 00:11:11,870 And, and that's why you sought out guys like Yeah, like Bubby and, and 267 00:11:11,985 --> 00:11:13,485 Hooker Hood was another guy down there. 268 00:11:13,485 --> 00:11:13,814 It was hot. 269 00:11:13,814 --> 00:11:13,875 Yeah. 270 00:11:13,875 --> 00:11:16,635 Well, Rick Kel would come down there, off and on. 271 00:11:16,935 --> 00:11:19,275 It was a lot of people that came down there because Birchville 272 00:11:19,275 --> 00:11:20,865 was pretty good for that time. 273 00:11:20,925 --> 00:11:23,834 You know, I think they were paying a thousand dollars to win, which 274 00:11:23,834 --> 00:11:24,870 most places might only been. 275 00:11:25,325 --> 00:11:26,345 Three or 500. 276 00:11:26,615 --> 00:11:29,855 It doesn't take long, you know, it's like you don't want to ask the guy 277 00:11:29,855 --> 00:11:33,695 that's running last how to go faster when you're already ahead of him. 278 00:11:33,695 --> 00:11:34,265 There you go. 279 00:11:35,015 --> 00:11:35,735 It's logical. 280 00:11:35,795 --> 00:11:40,805 Some people don't get my dry sense of humor sometimes, you know, and I'm kind 281 00:11:40,805 --> 00:11:42,605 of to the point, but I'm consistent. 282 00:11:42,725 --> 00:11:43,325 There you go. 283 00:11:44,195 --> 00:11:47,945 Looking at some of your stats in early on, one of the stats that really impressed 284 00:11:47,945 --> 00:11:52,895 me was by 1975, and here you're still very early in your career at that point. 285 00:11:52,895 --> 00:11:58,445 In 1975, you had 22 sprint car victories in five states and 286 00:11:58,445 --> 00:11:59,555 you were running Bob Guine. 287 00:11:59,975 --> 00:12:00,215 Gillett. 288 00:12:00,215 --> 00:12:01,355 Okay, thank you. 289 00:12:01,385 --> 00:12:04,745 One of those victories took place that in a little bull ring out in Stewart, Iowa. 290 00:12:04,805 --> 00:12:07,625 Yeah, you'd be the guy that was a pretty big name at the time. 291 00:12:07,655 --> 00:12:08,915 Yeah, I wasn't supposed to do that. 292 00:12:09,245 --> 00:12:12,065 We'd come up to Knoxville before with Bobby Sparks. 293 00:12:12,125 --> 00:12:15,665 So Bob took a little time off from his construction company, went, did 294 00:12:15,665 --> 00:12:20,075 some races, and we went up there and that place wasn't a lot different 295 00:12:20,075 --> 00:12:22,450 from West Memphis, Stewart Sort. 296 00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:23,290 It was kind. 297 00:12:23,765 --> 00:12:26,795 Maybe the same size, maybe not banked quite as much. 298 00:12:26,885 --> 00:12:30,635 I know we didn't really start up near the front, but we wound up winning there. 299 00:12:30,635 --> 00:12:33,365 And uh, was that the one that beat Reer or Opperman? 300 00:12:33,455 --> 00:12:34,385 Opperman, yeah. 301 00:12:34,385 --> 00:12:34,685 Okay. 302 00:12:34,685

--> 00:12:35,314 Pretty big deal. 303 00:12:35,375 --> 00:12:35,735 Yeah. 304 00:12:35,735 --> 00:12:36,485 That was a Wingless show. 305 00:12:36,485 --> 00:12:36,694 Yeah. 306 00:12:36,845 --> 00:12:37,055 Yeah. 307 00:12:37,055 --> 00:12:39,785 We were Wingless there and you had The Wing with you. 308 00:12:39,785 --> 00:12:42,845 You never know which you would go back and forth all the time. 309 00:12:42,905 --> 00:12:42,965 Yeah. 310 00:12:42,965 --> 00:12:44,135 'cause we run wings. 311 00:12:44,225 --> 00:12:46,865 Well they run both at West Memphis and then we'd run Wing. 312 00:12:46,895 --> 00:12:50,405 A lot of times we'd have a wing and then go run Stot and they did run wings. 313 00:12:50,435 --> 00:12:50,795 Okay. 314 00:12:50,975 --> 00:12:54,365 Or he'd go someplace and run one night with a wing one night without. 315 00:12:54,395 --> 00:12:56,015 But yeah, that was special. 316 00:12:56,165 --> 00:12:59,585 You know, we didn't have all the stuff we have now, the social media stuff, 317 00:12:59,615 --> 00:13:01,145 but I still knew about this guy. 318 00:13:01,295 --> 00:13:02,704 I don't think it went over too well. 319 00:13:04,685 --> 00:13:07,895 You said we didn't have everything then that we have now social media, but that 320 00:13:07,895 --> 00:13:10,145 also includes the comforts of travel. 321 00:13:10,355 --> 00:13:15,215 I mean, at that point you're hauling from Memphis Stewart is 45 minutes to an 322 00:13:15,215 --> 00:13:17,975 hour west of Des Moines off of Route 80. 323 00:13:18,189 --> 00:13:19,510 And so that's a pretty good hike. 324 00:13:19,569 --> 00:13:21,310 And you're doing that stuffed in a pickup. 325 00:13:21,460 --> 00:13:23,530 Well then with Bob it would just be me and the other one. 326 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:23,980 Okay. 327 00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:24,670 Just the two of you. 328 00:13:24,850 --> 00:13:25,510 Two of us really? 329 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:25,689 Okay. 330 00:13:25,780 --> 00:13:26,020 Yeah. 331 00:13:26,025 --> 00:13:26,255 Yeah. 332 00:13:26,439 --> 00:13:27,640 But that's still a pretty good home. 333 00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:28,210 Yeah. 334 00:13:28,450 --> 00:13:31,630 So you're making a name for yourself early, you talked about a ride that's 335 00:13:31,630 --> 00:13:34,960 on the horizon, but in between there, there was another ride that you 336 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,280 had from um, a Memphis based car, the Bobby Davis Electric number 71. 337 00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:41,740 Bobby had hired Bill Anderson. 338 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:43,270 Some of y'all might know that. 339 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:44,650 Been around for quite a bit. 340 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:45,130 Okay. 341 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:47,530 But you know, in the winter he would drive trucks for. 342 00:13:47,965 --> 00:13:52,435 Ma Brown and he worked on the race cars during the summer and he was, he was with 343 00:13:52,435 --> 00:13:54,775 Bobby anyway, he went to work for Bobby. 344 00:13:54,955 --> 00:13:58,045 It was Tommy Nolin that was driving the car at the time and I guess 345 00:13:58,045 --> 00:13:59,515 they kinda had a falling out. 346 00:13:59,515 --> 00:13:59,995 So, okay. 347 00:14:00,175 --> 00:14:02,035 Bill told me he sat down and he said, well if you wanna win the 348 00:14:02,035 --> 00:14:03,955 races, you need to call Sammy. 349 00:14:04,015 --> 00:14:06,055 He said, Bobby about spit out his coffee. 350 00:14:06,085 --> 00:14:08,725 You know, he was always wanting to beat me. 351 00:14:08,815 --> 00:14:09,415 Yeah, yeah. 352 00:14:09,445 --> 00:14:13,825 You know, but, and he had a B car before that so that Ricky Hood drove. 353 00:14:13,885 --> 00:14:19,945 So we had a lot of races together and we started that and it went pretty good. 354 00:14:20,125 --> 00:14:22,735 But to do a little more travel and a little more things 355 00:14:22,795 --> 00:14:23,815 that I haven't done yet. 356 00:14:23,875 --> 00:14:26,065 A lot more places that I haven't been to. 357 00:14:26,245 --> 00:14:29,395 And you guys ran Knoxville Nationals, I think you went to Skagit. 358 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:29,690 Yeah. 359 00:14:29,875 --> 00:14:32,695 That was a little bit later I think Bill Anderson wound up going back 360 00:14:32,695 --> 00:14:36,085 and I had, I got Tommy Sanders that worked for Bobby Allen up here. 361 00:14:36,115 --> 00:14:37,165 I'm glad you brought that up. 362 00:14:37,495 --> 00:14:40,165 We got the, and he was the one that brought me up here the first time. 363 00:14:40,215 --> 00:14:45,375 We got to do a lot more race in a lot, a lot of places, and all the way out to the 364 00:14:45,375 --> 00:14:48,405 very northwest corner of Washington state. 365 00:14:48,405 --> 00:14:48,765 Yeah. 366 00:14:48,855 --> 00:14:50,260 Got to go up and down the road quite a bit. 367 00:14:50,895 --> 00:14:53,265 And that's quite an experience, uh, for a young man. 368 00:14:53,385 --> 00:14:56,685 And to be able to explore the country like that and race as often as you 369 00:14:56,685 --> 00:14:58,665 are, that led you to a crossroads. 370 00:14:58,755 --> 00:15:00,555 You decided to enroll in college. 371 00:15:00,615 --> 00:15:02,745 I mean, you're a college student and you're racing. 372 00:15:02,925 --> 00:15:03,075 Mm-hmm. 373 00:15:03,525 --> 00:15:05,865 And at some point you said, I need to make a decision. 374 00:15:06,075 --> 00:15:06,345 Yeah. 375 00:15:06,345 --> 00:15:09,675 If we go, we go back to 73 or so. 376 00:15:09,795 --> 00:15:17,295 I'm in high school, living at home, and I'm making thousand, over $1,500 377 00:15:17,295 --> 00:15:19,785 a week in high school in 1973. 378 00:15:19,905 --> 00:15:20,535 Cash. 379 00:15:22,245 --> 00:15:23,925 They didn't give you checks back then, right? 380 00:15:23,925 --> 00:15:24,165 Right. 381 00:15:24,355 --> 00:15:26,935 So anybody has an inflation calculator, plug that in. 382 00:15:27,175 --> 00:15:28,855 A thousand, $1,500 a week. 383 00:15:28,855 --> 00:15:32,215 I

think most of us would take that in 1970 $3. 384 00:15:32,275 --> 00:15:33,445 Yeah, you're doing well. 385 00:15:33,745 --> 00:15:34,045 Yeah. 386 00:15:34,045 --> 00:15:36,295 There's a lot of people I had that I went to school with, they 387 00:15:36,295 --> 00:15:39,025 make, make 25 or $30 a week. 388 00:15:39,085 --> 00:15:39,445 Mm-hmm. 389 00:15:40,315 --> 00:15:44,065 But at the same time, uh, you know, when I go to West Memphis, it was $5 to 390 00:15:44,065 --> 00:15:46,915 get in and it cost me about $3 for gas. 391 00:15:47,095 --> 00:15:50,215 The B car stuff that went on a percentage of the gate, it 392 00:15:50,215 --> 00:15:53,155 would be from two 50 to $500. 393 00:15:53,495 --> 00:15:55,325 And I didn't have to split that with anybody. 394 00:15:55,685 --> 00:15:59,585 That always helps cost me seven or $8 to get in and race. 395 00:15:59,765 --> 00:15:59,885 Yeah. 396 00:15:59,885 --> 00:16:03,455 Your profit margin's pretty good at that point right after I got going, it's like, 397 00:16:03,455 --> 00:16:06,095 wh why do I want to do anything else? 398 00:16:06,125 --> 00:16:09,425 So tell the folks where you were attending college and what your interest, 399 00:16:09,425 --> 00:16:10,595 what your major was at that point. 400 00:16:10,805 --> 00:16:16,535 First of, I was going to, um, Memphis State then is what it was called, and 401 00:16:16,535 --> 00:16:18,275 I was doing mechanical engineering. 402 00:16:18,395 --> 00:16:21,125 They just wanted to make you do a lot of other things, English 403 00:16:21,125 --> 00:16:23,975 and other things there that, that I didn't have any interest in. 404 00:16:26,075 --> 00:16:28,325 And so I went there for. 405 00:16:28,515 --> 00:16:29,205 A year. 406 00:16:29,205 --> 00:16:31,725 Then I went over to the state technical college. 407 00:16:31,875 --> 00:16:35,385 You know, when I did the mechanical engineering, we were drawing gears or 408 00:16:35,385 --> 00:16:39,795 doing things, you know, just pieces and didn't make a lot of sense to me. 409 00:16:39,795 --> 00:16:44,385 But, and my granddad built some houses and stuff, so, um, I, when 410 00:16:44,385 --> 00:16:48,194 I moved over to State Tech, I just went into architectural engineering. 411 00:16:48,225 --> 00:16:48,765 Okay. 412 00:16:49,525 --> 00:16:52,945 You can build something there, design something, then you can see it, you know, 413 00:16:52,945 --> 00:16:55,375 when you're designing gears or something. 414 00:16:55,375 --> 00:16:57,625 Some people doesn't know, won't ever see that. 415 00:16:57,625 --> 00:16:57,805 Right. 416 00:16:57,865 --> 00:16:58,285 I gotcha. 417 00:16:58,465 --> 00:17:02,185 So you made the decision that college is not gonna be the course you're gonna take. 418 00:17:02,425 --> 00:17:03,595 Racing looks pretty good. 419 00:17:03,715 --> 00:17:03,925 Yeah. 420 00:17:03,925 --> 00:17:08,755 Well, I did try talk to all of my teachers and stuff there and like still want to 421 00:17:08,755 --> 00:17:13,375 do this, but I'm doing this and half of 'em was like, okay, we can do that. 422 00:17:13,435 --> 00:17:16,944 Then the other, there was some that said, no, you have to be in school. 423 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:18,325 And I said, well, you don't understand. 424 00:17:18,325 --> 00:17:21,714 I'm paying my way through school, uh, because my parents 425 00:17:21,714 --> 00:17:22,735 couldn't afford to do that. 426 00:17:22,974 --> 00:17:25,045 You know, it's like, well, I can always go back. 427 00:17:25,045 --> 00:17:26,665 This racing thing doesn't work out. 428 00:17:26,875 --> 00:17:27,025 Yeah. 429 00:17:27,025 --> 00:17:28,585 Well I think, uh, I think you've done okay. 430 00:17:28,585 --> 00:17:28,645 Yeah. 431 00:17:29,275 --> 00:17:30,805 Well I'm, I'm here today. 432 00:17:31,135 --> 00:17:31,705 There you go. 433 00:17:32,605 --> 00:17:34,435 You mentioned the name earlier, ma. 434 00:17:34,465 --> 00:17:35,845 Brown car owner. 435 00:17:35,935 --> 00:17:36,990 He had what Trucking company. 436 00:17:37,729 --> 00:17:38,330 Down that way. 437 00:17:38,419 --> 00:17:38,629 Yeah. 438 00:17:38,780 --> 00:17:43,010 He was a, uh, 2019 National Sprint Car Hall of Fame inductee. 439 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,040 And one of the great stats about Emmy Brown, I think over the course 440 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,360 of roughly 10 years or so, he had nine national Sprint car Hall of 441 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:55,610 Famers behind the wheel of his number 44 Bruce Kogel Ford sponsored car. 442 00:17:55,729 --> 00:18:00,020 And of course that was the ride that you eventually picked up in when it was like 443 00:18:00,020 --> 00:18:02,239 August of 77, somewhere around there. 444 00:18:02,445 --> 00:18:02,735 Yeah. 445 00:18:02,739 --> 00:18:03,020 Yeah. 446 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,830 It was just right after the nationals driving, before the FedEx car. 447 00:18:06,949 --> 00:18:08,149 They wanted to go racing. 448 00:18:08,449 --> 00:18:11,689 So they gave me a chance to go to a lot of places and do a lot of things. 449 00:18:11,689 --> 00:18:16,294 And it was like that one was different because, um, back then I don't think 450 00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:20,449 he had a motor that was under 400 cubic inches getting in that car. 451 00:18:20,449 --> 00:18:23,239 It showed me that, that when you've got everything you can 452 00:18:23,239 --> 00:18:25,100 have, how much easier it is. 453 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,270 We came to a lot of places and and did fairly well with it Might've 454 00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:32,720 been, we might've come up to Port Royal and I was, I think I was leading 455 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,440 the, I think the Eastern run, was it 75 lap race or something up there? 456 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:37,550 Where's my Port Royal people? 457 00:18:37,550 --> 00:18:37,910 Yeah. 458 00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:41,780 And we were up there running that and it was actually leading for 459 00:18:41,780 --> 00:18:43,130 quite a while and

had a flat. 460 00:18:43,185 --> 00:18:47,835 But that was a little scary 'cause the stands were so close and you'd have 461 00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:49,395 all the little kids waving the flags. 462 00:18:49,395 --> 00:18:51,044 I kept thinking I was gonna hit one of them. 463 00:18:52,905 --> 00:18:53,804 That's Pennsylvania. 464 00:18:55,155 --> 00:18:56,504 That was a high profile ride. 465 00:18:56,565 --> 00:18:58,425 I mean, you've had good rides up to this point. 466 00:18:58,665 --> 00:19:01,965 This one's taken you to another level, and you're fully prepared to 467 00:19:01,965 --> 00:19:03,495 take advantage of that opportunity. 468 00:19:03,495 --> 00:19:07,160 1978. Ted Johnson forms the world of Outlaws. 469 00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:10,910 And you're in the Ma Brown car on tour, so to speak, with the Outlaws. 470 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:11,270 Yeah. 471 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:16,280 I think we only ran maybe 10 races though Ma likes to see his car run stuff, so 472 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,290 we, he wanted to be around, we'd let us go different places, but uh, we'd always 473 00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:25,610 have to come back and run at West Memphis some and or, or places around there, or 474 00:19:25,670 --> 00:19:27,920 places he could go to be it hob stock. 475 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,340 But we did get to run a lot of the, like I said, we came up here. 476 00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:31,460 Mm-hmm. 477 00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:33,920 Cut to do a lot of, a lot more traveling. 478 00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:38,720 It's hard to remember all the races we went through back there, but I don't know. 479 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,580 We won a fair amount in that car. 480 00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:42,330 Mike Brown m ma son. 481 00:19:42,420 --> 00:19:42,570 Mm-hmm. 482 00:19:42,810 --> 00:19:44,310 You still in contact with him? 483 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:44,940 Yeah. 484 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,740 I'll see him every now and then. 485 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:47,040 Yeah. 486 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,070 And he'll come down to West Memphis or he'll show up someplace I'm at. 487 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,220 He's restored a few, a few of the cars. 488 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:53,520 Yeah. 489 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:54,750 The 44 is gorgeous. 490 00:19:54,810 --> 00:19:55,050 Yeah. 491 00:19:55,050 --> 00:19:55,710 And he did beautiful. 492 00:19:55,710 --> 00:19:57,570 I think he did the TMC car too. 493 00:19:57,690 --> 00:19:57,990 Did he? 494 00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:00,330 He did one of those, as one that he restored. 495 00:20:00,345 --> 00:20:01,380 Seems to do good work. 496 00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:03,930 He worked there with j and j with Jack. 497 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,550 He's a real good fabricator. 498 00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:09,150 You mentioned the FedEx car, 1979 inbound. 499 00:20:09,150 --> 00:20:13,410 There, you, you make the move and you're in with a guy by the name of AJ Jeffrey. 500 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,970 Tell us what the connection was there. 501 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:18,030 Well, that was the guy I started running his late model. 502 00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:18,570 His late model? 503 00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:19,590 Yeah, his late model. 504 00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:24,390 And so we, if we go back, he, he was one of the three or four guys 505 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:28,470 that started with Fred Smith when they were at and started FedEx 506 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:29,820 and he brought it to Memphis. 507 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,110 So we run his late model. 508 00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:34,770 We won a lot of races in that around locally there. 509 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,220 We just got together and he wound up getting Fred to give us a bunch of 510 00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:40,230 money or give him a bunch of money. 511 00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:40,240 Yeah. 512 00:20:40,625 --> 00:20:41,735 And that was big deal. 513 00:20:41,795 --> 00:20:47,195 'cause with a national tour forming to be able to bring in a company, and it 514 00:20:47,195 --> 00:20:48,995 wasn't as large as it is today, of course. 515 00:20:48,995 --> 00:20:49,265 No. 516 00:20:49,355 --> 00:20:52,380 But at that point, to be able to bring that type of company in, 517 00:20:52,415 --> 00:20:53,795 that was pretty significant move. 518 00:20:53,915 --> 00:20:54,155 Yeah. 519 00:20:54,155 --> 00:20:57,335 It was still a big company just getting started. 520 00:20:57,335 --> 00:20:57,425 Mm-hmm. 521 00:20:57,665 --> 00:21:00,635 But, uh, it just didn't, that one didn't last real long, 522 00:21:00,635 --> 00:21:02,225 but, but when it did, it did. 523 00:21:02,285 --> 00:21:02,525 Yeah. 524 00:21:02,525 --> 00:21:06,245 It was, I think, uh, you had quite a few, we won a lot of races for that too. 525 00:21:06,425 --> 00:21:09,275 79, I think you were third at the Knoxville. 526 00:21:09,275 --> 00:21:11,405 Nashvilles after coming through the b mm-hmm. 527 00:21:11,795 --> 00:21:14,045 Ran behind, uh, Ron Schumann and Randy Smith. 528 00:21:14,255 --> 00:21:14,795 Yeah. 529 00:21:14,795 --> 00:21:19,325 And we had, um, Carl Kinzer's 3 55 motor in there. 530 00:21:19,835 --> 00:21:20,825 It was a little slick track. 531 00:21:21,125 --> 00:21:24,515 Well, we had a problem blur motor, so he, he loaned us one that 532 00:21:24,515 --> 00:21:26,015 probably didn't make anybody's notes. 533 00:21:28,305 --> 00:21:32,175 1980, probably the car I first remember seeing you in when 534 00:21:32,175 --> 00:21:33,285 you came to Pennsylvania. 535 00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:36,735 And this was just another step in your career, another step up the 536 00:21:36,735 --> 00:21:39,105 ladder you ran for Laverne Dance. 537 00:21:39,195 --> 00:21:42,495 That was a high profile ride at the time it seemed, and I think you were a big 538 00:21:42,495 --> 00:21:44,175 part of making that a high profile ride. 539 00:21:44,355 --> 00:21:46,755 Yeah, that was a lot going on there. 540 00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:49,335 It was George

Gillespie calling me one day. 541 00:21:49,335 --> 00:21:52,845 He said, Hey, you need to go out there and see Laverne, so I did. 542 00:21:52,965 --> 00:21:56,445 So we went in there with him and his wife in his office and he said, and 543 00:21:56,445 --> 00:21:58,050 he, first thing he said to me, he says. 544 00:21:58,830 --> 00:22:00,570 I don't think I can afford to have you. 545 00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:02,880 I said, you can't afford not to have me. 546 00:22:04,890 --> 00:22:09,450 Then went on to explain the stuff I'd learned in the short period of time, just 547 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,530 the way I looked at doing things, or we can do this and do, I said, we need to 548 00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:18,180 build a car that a guy with a toolbox this big can put it together and go race. 549 00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:19,320 You're a machinist. 550 00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:20,010 He said, yeah. 551 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:22,740 I said, you could make fixtures where everything's the same. 552 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:24,570 Yeah, you could make the cars the same. 553 00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:27,210 You can make all this stuff exactly the same. 554 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,280 I said, well, I want to do this. 555 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,510 We build the cars and stand them up, build the sides and do it this other way. 556 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:38,970 But all the parts, you know, like the body or the, everything has to be the same. 557 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,620 So you can just take a part off. 558 00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:43,380 A guy can put it on, because that was the biggest thing back then. 559 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:45,660 You bought something while you had to work on it. 560 00:22:45,870 --> 00:22:49,110 You had to file on it or cut it or something, or fit. 561 00:22:49,170 --> 00:22:49,470 You know. 562 00:22:49,470 --> 00:22:51,090 Nothing was that close. 563 00:22:51,090 --> 00:22:55,200 So it was like always when you could get some parts or you got something 564 00:22:55,290 --> 00:22:56,290 that always you had to work on. 565 00:22:56,655 --> 00:22:56,945 Yeah. 566 00:22:57,060 --> 00:22:59,550 So you're looking for consistency of operation. 567 00:22:59,610 --> 00:22:59,760 Yeah. 568 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,910 You're looking at the the minute details to make sure that when 569 00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:05,520 you've got a car, it's what you had before and you know where you're 570 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,810 gonna go with your adjustments. 571 00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:07,020 Yeah. 572 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,710 I told 'em I wanna put everything on a schedule that we run so many laps 573 00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:12,070 on everything, so it doesn't break. 574 00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:16,650 That was brilliant because it's, I said, you, you're a manufacturer. 575 00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:21,420 You're the stuff you don't make, you buy at a discount and you make a profit on. 576 00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:24,930 So it's like it's gonna cost us too much to fall outta races, you know? 577 00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:28,590 'cause we were talking about going to run the whole world of outlaw series. 578 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:32,070 That's the biggest deal, is we've gotta finish every race, 579 00:23:32,145 --> 00:23:33,630 but we'll put it on a schedule. 580 00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:34,410 We'll do all this stuff. 581 00:23:34,410 --> 00:23:37,140 And I said, you won't have any problem selling my cars. 582 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,165 And we'll just say, we'll run 'em for a little bit and then get another one. 583 00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:44,710 That one kind of almost backfired on me because then he was wanting 584 00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:46,300 to, well, can I have another car? 585 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:46,870 Yeah. 586 00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:48,430 He didn't get much time in 'em then. 587 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,390 No, but on your parts deal, instead of just selling the guy radius 588 00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:56,230 rods and es, you know, make the fixture where all the cars are the 589 00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:58,150 same, we can just make fixtures. 590 00:23:58,150 --> 00:24:01,960 Your grandkids could go out and build radius rods and have 'em set. 591 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,440 Instead of selling a rear arm and this and that, you sell it with the pitch 592 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,390 bolt, the shark bolt, the rod in. 593 00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:08,350 It's all set up. 594 00:24:08,410 --> 00:24:10,900 All he has to do is slide it on the car. 595 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,200 When I drove for him right before that, his car, man, it's like you 596 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,550 could adjust everything on it. 597 00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:18,250 There was all kinds of things, and he was a little reluctant 598 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:20,050 to take a lot of that stuff off. 599 00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:24,010 So it's like we just bolt this one together and you can't really mess it up. 600 00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:26,950 But then I asked him, I said, well, how many cars did you sell last year? 601 00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:28,000 He said, 45. 602 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,790 I said, well, I bet you we can do over 200. 603 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:31,090 Wow. 604 00:24:31,150 --> 00:24:31,480 He's like. 605 00:24:31,905 --> 00:24:34,365 I said, well, you're gonna have to hire another welder. 606 00:24:34,515 --> 00:24:34,695 Mm-hmm. 607 00:24:35,025 --> 00:24:37,185 The one guy's not gonna be able to keep up. 608 00:24:37,335 --> 00:24:40,065 And so it, it started that year. 609 00:24:40,065 --> 00:24:44,925 We ran 136 nights and I felt a lot of two races. 610 00:24:45,015 --> 00:24:47,895 One was a flat tire and one, we got a hole in the oil filter. 611 00:24:48,135 --> 00:24:49,435 No, no mechanical failures. 612 00:24:49,435 --> 00:24:52,230 No mechanical failures at all in that many races. 613 00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:56,460 And we won 56 races and the world of Outlaw championship. 614 00:24:56,580 -->

00:25:00,150 And that became sort of a calling card for you, you being a driver, 615 00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:05,400 but with a business mindset, someone who knew how to run the entire team. 616 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,450 You saw the big picture. 617 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:06,690 Mm-hmm. 618 00:25:06,930 --> 00:25:08,250 What it took to be successful. 619 00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:10,675 The more I knew, the more I'd be worth. 620 00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:14,139 The more I could do, the more I was gonna be worth, you know, 621 00:25:14,139 --> 00:25:16,180 just being able to do everything. 622 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,210 You know, A lot of people probably wouldn't want to take that on, but 623 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,960 you know, I won a race and this was gonna gimme a chance to run 624 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,800 the whole world out all for all the races, all the big paying races. 625 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,879 We even got to run a lot of other races, you know, and all that comes with, 626 00:25:30,940 --> 00:25:33,340 well, every time you run it and you win. 627 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:35,920 Well that makes my bank account look a little better. 628 00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:38,565 That's what, it just all adds up. 629 00:25:38,565 --> 00:25:41,865 If I could control it all, I knew what I wanted to do and 630 00:25:41,865 --> 00:25:43,545 I could, was able to do that. 631 00:25:43,785 --> 00:25:47,625 Sam, I think one of the other areas where you were proved invaluable to the, not 632 00:25:47,625 --> 00:25:51,825 only Nance, uh, Laverne Nance, but other chassis companies down the road, is you 633 00:25:51,825 --> 00:25:56,415 formed relationships with these folks and then you were able to provide input to 634 00:25:56,415 --> 00:26:01,245 the design of their chassis and they would incorporate that input, make a better car. 635 00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:04,125 And to your point earlier, sell more cars. 636 00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,075 Well, if we back up to the FedEx car Sure. 637 00:26:06,225 --> 00:26:11,205 Went out to Phoenix a few times and was at some races and I got to know Gary Stanton. 638 00:26:11,205 --> 00:26:11,295 Mm-hmm. 639 00:26:11,535 --> 00:26:14,535 And so, uh, we got to be pretty good friends and stuff. 640 00:26:14,535 --> 00:26:16,995 So he said, well I want to build you cars. 641 00:26:16,995 --> 00:26:19,845 And I said, well, I want to make some changes from the car you got. 642 00:26:19,845 --> 00:26:22,275 So he said, well, I'll build you a couple cars however you want 'em. 643 00:26:22,275 --> 00:26:23,985 At the same time he made three cars. 644 00:26:23,985 --> 00:26:24,705 I said, what are you doing? 645 00:26:24,885 --> 00:26:26,025 Why are you doing three cars? 646 00:26:26,025 --> 00:26:28,035 And he said, well, I'm gonna have one here sitting here. 647 00:26:28,215 --> 00:26:31,275 You know, so it didn't take me about about three weeks of running that one. 648 00:26:31,275 --> 00:26:33,555 And he showed up with Ron Schumann with us. 649 00:26:33,555 --> 00:26:35,145 I said, oh, you got my other car out here. 650 00:26:37,135 --> 00:26:42,325 He said, well, it's been looking pretty good, but you know, there's just a lot of 651 00:26:42,504 --> 00:26:44,514 little stories down through everything. 652 00:26:44,514 --> 00:26:47,754 But you know, to get back, there wasn't a lot of corporate stuff in 653 00:26:47,754 --> 00:26:51,175 the race and it was just a guy had some owned a business or had to had a 654 00:26:51,175 --> 00:26:53,274 car, you know, or something like that. 655 00:26:53,274 --> 00:26:54,514 So when we went out. 656 00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:59,190 To, uh, Phoenix, if we go back to 74 the first time, well, you know, 657 00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:02,830 Bubby Jones showed me how to, well, we talked to this promoter and, 658 00:27:02,909 --> 00:27:04,080 and he'll give you this money. 659 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,260 You can get this money or you can get a hotel room or you can get, you know, 660 00:27:07,260 --> 00:27:09,510 money, show up money and okay, whatever. 661 00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:13,649 So we'll go out there, talk to Keith Hall and got this room for the whole 662 00:27:13,649 --> 00:27:16,260 week and had to spend time out there. 663 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:21,540 And, uh, that's when I was driving for Bobby Sparks and, and so Ben Foot 664 00:27:21,540 --> 00:27:24,540 for Mascot comes down to him and he says, we want you to come over to 665 00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:26,340 the Pacific Co sofa the next week. 666 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:28,139 And I said, well, it's really not up to me. 667 00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:30,300 Lemme see how the guys can come over there. 668 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:31,560 And he said, well, I got this. 669 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,129 I can give you this much money and I could give you a room for the week on the beach. 670 00:27:35,159 --> 00:27:37,110 And it's like, well go back and talk to Bobby. 671 00:27:37,475 --> 00:27:38,159 Oh, okay. 672 00:27:38,220 --> 00:27:39,179 Well he called his dad. 673 00:27:39,179 --> 00:27:39,450 Yep. 674 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,830 Yeah, we went over there and did that. 675 00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:44,220 So I got to go see a lot of the manufacturers that, that was out there. 676 00:27:44,220 --> 00:27:48,419 So I got started just building more and more acquaints, you know, stuff that 677 00:27:48,419 --> 00:27:50,399 we would have a problem with the car. 678 00:27:50,460 --> 00:27:52,530 This is what would break first or mm-hmm. 679 00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:54,210 This, we had issues with. 680 00:27:54,655 --> 00:27:58,915 I could deal with them while seeing how they made pieces and did the things. 681 00:27:58,975 --> 00:28:02,365 So I was able to help in making their parts better. 682 00:28:02,425 --> 00:28:05,274 So you provided feedback to the manufacturer sponsors, 683 00:28:05,304 --> 00:28:06,445 the folks that Yeah. 684 00:28:06,475 --> 00:28:07,975 You had developed

relationships with. 685 00:28:08,004 --> 00:28:08,095 Mm-hmm. 686 00:28:08,365 --> 00:28:10,945 They had enough trust in you to make that a reality, then they 687 00:28:10,945 --> 00:28:12,235 knew it would benefit them as well. 688 00:28:12,385 --> 00:28:12,655 Yeah. 689 00:28:12,655 --> 00:28:14,665 Even though I was 18, 19 years old. 690 00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:16,250 Wow. 691 00:28:16,889 --> 00:28:19,980 Sammy, one of the other things, uh, I thought was, was interesting. 692 00:28:20,129 --> 00:28:23,790 When we talk about your ability to manage a team, you're a guy that, let's say 693 00:28:23,790 --> 00:28:28,439 you're involved with a tour and the tour's going from Knoxville and they're gonna go 694 00:28:28,439 --> 00:28:33,570 out and run Chico and up through Skagit, you would sit down and do the numbers and 695 00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:38,550 say, financially, does this West Coast swing make sense for me, for our team, 696 00:28:38,790 --> 00:28:42,240 there was a lot of guys that I drove for that couldn't run the whole world 697 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,770 of outlaw schedule, and so we would just pick out things and see what made sense. 698 00:28:46,770 --> 00:28:47,490 Mm-hmm. 699 00:28:47,495 --> 00:28:51,270 Or we thought we could make the most money for what we were doing, and that was okay. 700 00:28:51,270 --> 00:28:53,070 There was plenty of races going around. 701 00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:55,980 The first part of the Outlaws, they went to a lot of different places 702 00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:59,520 and it was quite a bit of money to stay out on the road back then. 703 00:28:59,730 --> 00:29:01,560 But we would put a schedule together with. 704 00:29:01,630 --> 00:29:04,270 Kind of what owner was looking to spend. 705 00:29:04,390 --> 00:29:04,630 Yeah. 706 00:29:04,690 --> 00:29:05,800 And you had to stay within that. 707 00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:08,890 One of the things I wanted to touch on just briefly here, while you were with 708 00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:12,790 the Nance team, Tommy Sanders, still with you, I think, at that point, and there's 709 00:29:12,790 --> 00:29:16,270 another fellow whose name would reappear throughout the course of your career. 710 00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:17,080 Ken Jenkins. 711 00:29:17,135 --> 00:29:21,215 Ken was out there and that was another thing that he was trying 712 00:29:21,215 --> 00:29:22,385 to get me to go out there. 713 00:29:22,504 --> 00:29:28,385 At the same time too, you know, that he was over at Gambler and he had the his 714 00:29:28,385 --> 00:29:32,675 own deal out of Dodge City there for a bit, but we did a lot of things together 715 00:29:32,675 --> 00:29:34,355 over the years as different places. 716 00:29:34,415 --> 00:29:34,655 Yeah. 717 00:29:34,685 --> 00:29:36,245 Comes back to those relationships. 718 00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:36,300 Mm-hmm. 719 00:29:36,845 --> 00:29:37,115 Yeah. 720 00:29:37,325 --> 00:29:41,135 Well, after the Nance deal folds, your next move from there you

went met up 721 00:29:41,135 --> 00:29:43,395 with a guy named Raymond Bele, I believe. 722 00:29:43,395 --> 00:29:43,405 Yeah. 723 00:29:43,405 --> 00:29:43,955 That was just a deal. 724 00:29:43,955 --> 00:29:47,254 Like at the end of the year I got on a plane, I was just gonna go down 725 00:29:47,254 --> 00:29:49,504 to the Wins Cup race in Atlanta. 726 00:29:49,625 --> 00:29:49,955 Okay. 727 00:29:50,254 --> 00:29:53,225 I flew into Dallas and went from Dallas to Atlanta. 728 00:29:53,405 --> 00:29:56,495 I got on a plane and wound up sitting next to Raymond Beetle and so we 729 00:29:56,495 --> 00:29:59,765 start talking about stuff and he's, that's when he's telling me he's 730 00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:04,595 trying to put a cup team together and he's got his funny car, you know? 731 00:30:04,625 --> 00:30:07,625 He said, well, maybe we could add a sprint car deal and then put 732 00:30:07,625 --> 00:30:10,205 you in a few races over there. 733 00:30:10,545 --> 00:30:14,565 Part of the deal for me, leaving Nance, we were still gonna run his cars, but then 734 00:30:14,565 --> 00:30:19,395 he decided to let his son run the business and he wanted to go a different direction. 735 00:30:19,485 --> 00:30:19,575 Mm-hmm. 736 00:30:19,995 --> 00:30:22,665 So that's kind of where that split. 737 00:30:22,665 --> 00:30:26,355 But that brought me back to Ken Jenkins and gambler. 738 00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:28,250 We started running those cars. 739 00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:32,120 We didn't run the full schedule, but we ran quite a few races 740 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,810 and it gave me an opportunity to run some of the NASCAR stuff. 741 00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:38,660 Yeah, and we're gonna get into that a little bit more in the 742 00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:40,550 second half of today's round table. 743 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:44,510 And what, when we do, I want you to think back on everything that we've talked about 744 00:30:44,510 --> 00:30:48,530 here in the early portion and understand that while all this is happening over 745 00:30:48,530 --> 00:30:53,000 here, Sammy's also doing this over here that we're talking about right now. 746 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,590 It's, it's super impressive. 747 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,040 You're with Raymond Beetle, 1983 Knoxville Nationals. 748 00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,590 We should have won that one, or we did. 749 00:31:00,860 --> 00:31:01,730 Yeah, we did. 750 00:31:02,030 --> 00:31:02,270 Yeah. 751 00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:06,020 We had some pretty good runs and that brought me into, 752 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,700 he had Bob Westfall there. 753 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,030 Okay. 754 00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:08,900 Working at his shop. 755 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,950 He built the motors. 756 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,070 They were starting to build some motors there about the middle time 757 00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:17,879 of the year, a lot of guys had the aluminum, four 30 motors and we 758 00:31:17,879 --> 00:31:19,770 were still running a steel block. 759 00:31:19,889 --> 00:31:20,129 Okay. 760 00:31:20,129 --> 00:31:24,810 4 0 6. It was about just before the NA nationals that we got, the aluminum 761 00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:26,730 four 30 and it's like, put that in. 762 00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:29,370 It's like, oh my gosh, it is just so much better. 763 00:31:29,490 --> 00:31:34,350 And, uh, I think we won about six races in a row and counting the nationals. 764 00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:37,889 And uh, you know, then after we ran so many races on it, he had to take it 765 00:31:37,889 --> 00:31:41,160 back and wanted to look at it and it's like, man, you're gonna make me go back 766 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,810 to this other, I'm, I'm spoiled down. 767 00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:48,719 This, it's way easier to pass people with this, this lighter motor with way more, 768 00:31:48,989 --> 00:31:50,489 you know, another a hundred horsepower. 769 00:31:50,580 --> 00:31:50,879 Wow. 770 00:31:50,969 --> 00:31:51,840 That had to be huge. 771 00:31:51,929 --> 00:31:52,800 Yeah, that was huge. 772 00:31:53,189 --> 00:31:55,979 Was this the point Du Sterl came on board right about this time? 773 00:31:56,159 --> 00:31:56,429 Yeah. 774 00:31:56,429 --> 00:32:00,389 He, he was there and the one guy that was from Wichita that come 775 00:32:00,389 --> 00:32:05,100 over to nag me, Steve Cox, he followed me over to Beatles team. 776 00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:09,270 We'd been together a couple years and then Deuce comes down and it was all good. 777 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:11,370 We had some good runs, a lot of good times. 778 00:32:11,370 --> 00:32:15,030 We didn't get to run as much as we wanted to, but, you know, 779 00:32:15,030 --> 00:32:16,800 we had four years with Raymond. 780 00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:17,250 Oh. 781 00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:17,639 And all good. 782 00:32:17,639 --> 00:32:18,929 Learned a lot of other things too. 783 00:32:19,050 --> 00:32:20,699 You know, there's a lot of that. 784 00:32:20,699 --> 00:32:24,060 He, he owned Chaparral Trailers, which that was Oh yeah, that's right. 785 00:32:24,179 --> 00:32:26,370 Cadillac of the thing to have at the time. 786 00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:29,909 So we said, well, we just need to build a trailer for the sprint car. 787 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:30,810 And we did that. 788 00:32:30,810 --> 00:32:32,399 He sold a lot of those. 789 00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:33,330 Mm-hmm. 790 00:32:33,331 --> 00:32:33,341 Too. 791 00:32:33,675 --> 00:32:35,925 That gave me another project to work on. 792 00:32:36,014 --> 00:32:36,375 Yeah. 793 00:32:36,524 --> 00:32:36,795 Yeah. 794 00:32:37,215 --> 00:32:39,735 You were with Raymond's team 1984. 795 00:32:39,735 --> 00:32:41,264 You were second in world of outlaw points. 796 00:32:41,264 --> 00:32:42,375 You wanted Syracuse. 797 00:32:42,615 --> 00:32:44,745 Why were you so good at Syracuse? 798 00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:47,895 I think there's probably a couple factors, but I read

somewhere you 799 00:32:47,895 --> 00:32:51,105 won like half your starts there, like five out of 10 or something like that. 800 00:32:51,405 --> 00:32:51,690 I don't know. 801 00:32:51,975 --> 00:32:53,115 You might get upset here. 802 00:32:53,145 --> 00:32:54,254 No, have at it brother. 803 00:32:54,885 --> 00:32:56,774 But you know, somebody asked me about that. 804 00:32:56,774 --> 00:33:00,495 Well, how come you go so much better on the miles than most people? 805 00:33:00,495 --> 00:33:03,105 It's like, you know, I think these guys are used to running the half 806 00:33:03,105 --> 00:33:08,086 miles and they run 120 mile an hour like Syracuse and you run 185. 807 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:09,540 That's ridiculous. 808 00:33:09,570 --> 00:33:12,660 Well, they're hitting the chip at one 20, so it's like the rest of the way. 809 00:33:12,660 --> 00:33:14,160 It's like, oh shit, I ain't gonna make it. 810 00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:18,390 I was talking with Al on the way up here. 811 00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:20,850 He was asking me something about, about why, why are you 812 00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:22,050 so good on the bigger track? 813 00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:23,790 It's just like, I don't, I liked him. 814 00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:26,640 You know, you just, you get your card dialed in just right and you'd 815 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,130 just go around there and just like you're going down the freeway. 816 00:33:29,460 --> 00:33:30,420 I mean, speed's there. 817 00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:32,220 But if, you know, if you didn't want to go fast, you didn't 818 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:33,270 need to be in there anyway. 819 00:33:33,285 --> 00:33:33,575 Yeah. 820 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:34,020 Yeah. 821 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,370 Like to go fast. 822 00:33:36,685 --> 00:33:37,825 Just like Ricky Bobby. 823 00:33:37,945 --> 00:33:38,095 Yeah. 824 00:33:40,465 --> 00:33:41,274 Perfect. 825 00:33:42,175 --> 00:33:47,004 But I remember you said at one point speed has a way of weeding drivers and cars out. 826 00:33:47,004 --> 00:33:47,215 Yeah. 827 00:33:47,215 --> 00:33:51,115 Well that was, you know, there's some guys that just, I've seen been around enough 828 00:33:51,475 --> 00:33:54,715 people that run quarter miles where they have trouble going to the next step. 829 00:33:54,835 --> 00:33:54,925 Mm-hmm. 830 00:33:55,345 --> 00:33:55,495 Yeah. 831 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,635 I've seen guys go from three sixties to run four tens and they, they can 832 00:33:59,635 --> 00:34:04,105 win 360 races, but then they can't do any good four tens or so much quicker. 833 00:34:04,195 --> 00:34:06,294 And it's the same with the bigger tracks. 834 00:34:06,385 --> 00:34:10,705 Always liked the faster places because I had fewer people to compete with. 835 00:34:10,855 --> 00:34:12,444 It narrowed a lot of them out. 836 00:34:12,475 --> 00:34:12,745 Yeah. 837 00:34:12,804 --> 00:34:17,455 And some of it was just we had better cars or had better stuff, but still 838 00:34:17,455 --> 00:34:19,645 it's trying to get all that out of it. 839 00:34:19,795 --> 00:34:19,975 You know? 840 00:34:19,975 --> 00:34:21,864 I did win most of the mile tracks. 841 00:34:21,864 --> 00:34:23,395 I think that's why they quit going to them. 842 00:34:24,985 --> 00:34:26,094 It's a conspiracy. 843 00:34:26,215 --> 00:34:26,455 Yeah. 844 00:34:27,570 --> 00:34:31,260 At this point, you know, we look back, Sammy, you had those two back to back 845 00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:34,290 titles with Laverne Nance, 81 82. 846 00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:41,250 Between 1981 and 1989, you had one season where you were below the 20 win mark. 847 00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:45,090 So you're getting it done, and though you do like the fast tracks 848 00:34:45,150 --> 00:34:47,820 at another great quote here, and I want you to talk about this. 849 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,860 The strategy you developed was unique, but I certainly see where you're coming from. 850 00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:56,100 You once said I wanted to win, going as slowly as I could. 851 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,940 That's something, you know, I tell people if I can get my car 852 00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:02,310 where I can run 90% and win. 853 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:03,660 I'm not hard on it. 854 00:35:03,930 --> 00:35:05,700 I don't make very many mistakes. 855 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:05,910 Mm-hmm. 856 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:10,170 The thing is, if like somebody comes up to challenge me, I still got that 857 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,660 10% to go and that spoils their day. 858 00:35:15,090 --> 00:35:17,970 And meanwhile, on the flip side of that coin, some of your competitors. 859 00:35:18,740 --> 00:35:22,970 They might be running 110%, one lap, and then the next 860 00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:24,470 lap, they're in recovery mode. 861 00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:24,770 Yeah. 862 00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:28,700 Well, that's what I've told a lot of people though, helped and stuff. 863 00:35:28,705 --> 00:35:32,180 And you know, it's like you can't do a hundred percent every lap. 864 00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:35,510 90% is still hard to do if you just add it up. 865 00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:38,390 If you make half your laps a hundred percent and half of 866 00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:40,970 'em 50%, you're only at 75%. 867 00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:44,120 So my 90% wins every time. 868 00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:44,510 Yeah. 869 00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:49,370 At 90% it feels like I'm going slow until you get to Victory Lane. 870 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:49,850 Yeah. 871 00:35:49,850 --> 00:35:53,390 Well, that way I can, you know, at Syracuse I can go change the radio 872 00:35:53,390 --> 00:35:54,800 stations back and forth because 873 00:35:57,290 --> 00:36:01,670 you just relax and go, but I tell a lot of these kids and stuff, it's like. 874 00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:03,980 I just wanna go for a ride, you know? 875 00:36:03,980 --> 00:36:06,680 And if I can go for a ride, then I'm having a good time 876 00:36:07,640 -->

00:36:08,720 and I'm not stressed out. 877 00:36:08,810 --> 00:36:09,140 Yeah. 878 00:36:09,410 --> 00:36:12,350 You know, it's like, I don't know if some people play golf, but if you're 879 00:36:12,350 --> 00:36:14,959 tense, it is a long ways to that hole. 880 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:18,379 Love the perspective. 881 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:18,919 Sammy. 882 00:36:18,919 --> 00:36:23,540 1988, you partnered with another gentleman out the Des Moines area, an iconic ride. 883 00:36:23,569 --> 00:36:27,350 The TMC number one, that was another Ken Jenkins deal. 884 00:36:27,740 --> 00:36:28,100 Okay. 885 00:36:28,339 --> 00:36:31,580 He wound up that the Harold did bystanding out. 886 00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:31,819 Yep. 887 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,819 A couple years after, or a year or so after I was there. 888 00:36:35,089 --> 00:36:37,879 I guess me and the Harold got along pretty well, you know, 'cause he 889 00:36:37,879 --> 00:36:40,399 wanted his stuff clean with nice. 890 00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:42,740 And, uh, he, he liked to win. 891 00:36:42,919 --> 00:36:47,299 So they had me come down and I drove his car at Knoxville and we won. 892 00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:49,009 And they hadn't won all year. 893 00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:51,259 So it's just things go from there. 894 00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:54,060 So he bought Gary Stanton operation, moved it to Des 895 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:56,340 Moines and renamed it Challenger. 896 00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:56,880 Yeah. 897 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,810 1989. Is that when you, you went to run with USA, right? 898 00:37:00,990 --> 00:37:02,490 Probably, yeah, probably was. 899 00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:07,110 Um, so Larry Clark was the president and he had a what, a relationship with Harold. 900 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:07,560 Yeah. 901 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,950 If you ever look at the cars, the early ones, it's like on the fuel 902 00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:15,450 tank, he'll have Larry Clark, CPA, and that's what he did for Harold. 903 00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:16,020 Okay. 904 00:37:16,319 --> 00:37:20,069 Harold was wanting to make racing better of the sprint car stuff, and 905 00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:22,799 he had backing to do it at the time. 906 00:37:23,279 --> 00:37:28,020 He talked with Ted quite a bit, so he says that they'd come to terms on a 907 00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:31,815 deal and he'd write him a check, and Deb would push it back a lot more, you know? 908 00:37:31,815 --> 00:37:36,295 Mm. And so after about the third time, he wasn't very happy with that. 909 00:37:36,295 --> 00:37:39,205 So yeah, he thought he could start his own deal. 910 00:37:39,355 --> 00:37:42,565 I mean, he had the right intentions, but the problems they ran into 911 00:37:42,565 --> 00:37:45,925 with that was Ted wound up having all the tracks tied up. 912 00:37:46,075 --> 00:37:46,465 Okay. 913 00:37:46,765 --> 00:37:49,285 So there was a lot of places that we couldn't go to. 914 00:37:49,645 --> 00:37:51,895 'cause they were

committed to the world of outlaw store. 915 00:37:51,895 --> 00:37:51,985 Yes. 916 00:37:51,985 --> 00:37:51,995 Okay. 917 00:37:52,395 --> 00:37:56,235 Well, that season, um, I believe you had 12 feature wins with USA, 918 00:37:56,235 --> 00:38:00,345 another four with the World of Outlaws here in the area, Hagerstown 919 00:38:00,345 --> 00:38:03,645 Speedway seems like it's been a pretty good stop for you over the years. 920 00:38:03,645 --> 00:38:05,385 I keep seeing that name pop up. 921 00:38:05,445 --> 00:38:08,535 You won there in May with the Outlaws, and then you went back, I think 922 00:38:08,535 --> 00:38:10,905 August and September and won with USA. 923 00:38:11,025 --> 00:38:13,005 What about Hagerstown suits your style? 924 00:38:13,335 --> 00:38:15,165 You know, if we even go back to Hobbs stock. 925 00:38:15,165 --> 00:38:15,375 Sure. 926 00:38:15,375 --> 00:38:17,955 I'm, I'm running the bottom and everybody's at the top. 927 00:38:17,955 --> 00:38:19,875 It's like I could run the bottom pretty well. 928 00:38:20,025 --> 00:38:20,355 Okay. 929 00:38:20,475 --> 00:38:23,805 At Hagerstown I could run the top fine, but when there was something 930 00:38:23,805 --> 00:38:26,415 down there I could really go where a lot of people couldn't. 931 00:38:26,595 --> 00:38:26,865 Yeah. 932 00:38:27,015 --> 00:38:30,225 You know, and it's a fairly fast place, but there's some finesse to it. 933 00:38:30,225 --> 00:38:33,465 There's some finesse to it, you know, trying to run that inside wall. 934 00:38:33,585 --> 00:38:33,975 Okay. 935 00:38:34,095 --> 00:38:38,025 I was there some times back in the seventies and I watched a guy named 936 00:38:38,025 --> 00:38:39,555 Smokey Run down there quite a bit. 937 00:38:39,555 --> 00:38:39,615 Yeah. 938 00:38:39,645 --> 00:38:42,585 So it's like, there might be something to that also. 939 00:38:42,585 --> 00:38:47,055 Uh, 1989, Sammy, and this is, speaks to that whole tinkering mindset. 940 00:38:47,205 --> 00:38:51,435 You debuted a car with independent front suspension and rack and pinions steering. 941 00:38:51,779 --> 00:38:55,500 Well, after I took it down to Volusia, Ted called me and told me I couldn't run it. 942 00:38:57,089 --> 00:38:57,100 Why? 943 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:57,870 Why was that? 944 00:38:58,049 --> 00:38:59,850 There's not a rule in there that says you can't. 945 00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:01,080 He says, but there will be. 946 00:39:03,509 --> 00:39:06,750 So that was a lot of work for not much. 947 00:39:06,899 --> 00:39:10,500 I run an all star races, but there were some things I'd learned 948 00:39:10,529 --> 00:39:12,750 from being around the stock cars. 949 00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:13,200 Okay. 950 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,960 You know, and so I learned how to do the bumps here. 951 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,040 I could do my own stock car, how to set the front ends up and, and all 952 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,149 the different things you could make it, do, all the adjustments and, and 953 00:39:24,149 --> 00:39:29,189 things that you could change that you couldn't do with a regular B Maxwell. 954 00:39:29,279 --> 00:39:33,149 Every time I ran it, I was fast time, but we had a problem with the rack. 955 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:36,359 You know, after looking at it, I could, I could have went right back to the regular 956 00:39:36,359 --> 00:39:38,069 steering and it would've been really good. 957 00:39:38,399 --> 00:39:40,350 Uh, there was just a lag because. 958 00:39:40,415 --> 00:39:42,005 And there again, I learn something. 959 00:39:42,005 --> 00:39:45,575 You know, it's like the sprint cars, the pumps right there and the lines are real 960 00:39:45,575 --> 00:39:48,125 short, so it has to move really quick. 961 00:39:48,125 --> 00:39:50,340 So the, so it's very responsive in the traditional Yeah. 962 00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:51,725 So we had a little bit of a lag. 963 00:39:51,815 --> 00:39:51,875 Okay. 964 00:39:51,875 --> 00:39:53,495 You know, like qualifying, you're wide open. 965 00:39:53,495 --> 00:39:55,445 You don't hardly, you just nowhere to loose. 966 00:39:55,445 --> 00:39:57,305 You could just not much wheel. 967 00:39:57,365 --> 00:40:00,515 And so I could make it roll around there, but the thing was, I could 968 00:40:00,515 --> 00:40:02,585 run the car way softer in the back. 969 00:40:02,645 --> 00:40:05,795 I could run the car with less stagger because I could make the front end turn. 970 00:40:05,945 --> 00:40:09,605 It would've been a big advantage for I don't know how long, but we 971 00:40:09,605 --> 00:40:13,505 never got to deal with it because I wasn't gonna be able to run it. 972 00:40:13,565 --> 00:40:13,865 Right. 973 00:40:13,985 --> 00:40:17,435 Learned a lot of things from that, but, uh, it, it's still there. 974 00:40:17,735 --> 00:40:20,855 If we could ever get it back somewhere again, you still have it. 975 00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:23,530 Well, I've got all the blueprint, all the prints. 976 00:40:23,590 --> 00:40:23,945 Oh, okay, okay. 977 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:24,310 Yeah. 978 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,510 You know, it's all laid out. 979 00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:29,770 I there, so, but it, it's funny that that comes up because just yesterday 980 00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:33,400 a friend furnishes the motors from a chili bowl cars, Tim Bertand. 981 00:40:33,580 --> 00:40:36,670 He says, I want to do a independent frontend tq. 982 00:40:36,850 --> 00:40:39,160 I said, you can, it's, it's gonna be a little tight. 983 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,780 And then he said, this guy's got this. 984 00:40:40,990 --> 00:40:42,010 There's a guy that's got one. 985 00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:43,120 He looked at it and I said, yeah. 986 00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:45,880 It's like, well, it could probably be cleaned up on some 987 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,890 details, looking at some pictures. 988 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,100 But I could help him out with what it's going to do or how it's gonna 989

00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:52,990 change his car and what he can do. 990 00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:54,070 It was all fun. 991 00:40:54,130 --> 00:40:55,600 It was all learning experience. 992 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,650 It was just, you put your heart and soul in something and it's legal when 993 00:40:59,650 --> 00:41:03,820 you built it, but when you take it to the track, it's not, that's not fair. 994 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:04,745 No, I get it. 995 00:41:05,250 --> 00:41:09,210 But as I understand it, you had a computer program, this is 35 years ago. 996 00:41:09,330 --> 00:41:09,509 Mm-hmm. 997 00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:14,279 That would illustrate or give you some sort of visual as to what 998 00:41:14,279 --> 00:41:17,550 changes you made with the mounting positions, what that would do to 999 00:41:17,550 --> 00:41:18,660 the car and what it would look like. 1000 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:18,900 Yeah. 1001 00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:21,690 We gotta realize the computers and everything were a lot different. 1002 00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:21,840 Yeah. 1003 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,770 But I can put it in there and you could move the front end up and down and it 1004 00:41:25,770 --> 00:41:29,430 would tell you where the points, and you could see how it would all work 1005 00:41:29,580 --> 00:41:31,920 together with the everything moving. 1006 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,790 If you had to input all the dimensions and then it would tell you that 1007 00:41:35,790 --> 00:41:39,779 when you could move it or when it rolled either way, what was going on. 1008 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,300 And I would think for sprint car racing, that would be pretty 1009 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,500 cutting edge for the time. 1010 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,460 Oh yeah. 1011 00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:45,480 Even for me. 1012 00:41:47,695 --> 00:41:51,025 And so I wanna talk just for a minute, Sammy, about Sammy Swin, innovator. 1013 00:41:51,055 --> 00:41:53,965 You know, we've touched on a couple things, but there were some other areas 1014 00:41:54,025 --> 00:41:57,715 where you were doing some experimentation, where you saw maybe a shortcoming and 1015 00:41:57,715 --> 00:41:59,634 came up with a practical solution. 1016 00:41:59,755 --> 00:42:03,085 1987. Tell us about the Kodiak Big Tube car. 1017 00:42:03,205 --> 00:42:05,965 Well, it was just from the Indy cars, you know, they used to 1018 00:42:05,965 --> 00:42:07,915 build aluminum tubs and stuff. 1019 00:42:07,945 --> 00:42:08,215 Mm-hmm. 1020 00:42:08,605 --> 00:42:11,755 And being around some of the guys I've known, you know, and 1021 00:42:11,755 --> 00:42:16,134 spent some time with 'em, what little time I had extra to spend. 1022 00:42:16,134 --> 00:42:18,625 But you know, and then a guy comes out and builds a carbon 1023 00:42:18,625 --> 00:42:22,525 fiber tub that Johnny Rutherford's driving and he's like, way faster. 1024 00:42:22,615 --> 00:42:23,515 Well, it was stiffer. 1025 00:42:23,834 --> 00:42:25,095 I'd had some cars. 1026 00:42:25,154 --> 00:42:30,584 Even when we go back to MA Brown's car, the 44, he had two cars that 1027 00:42:30,584 --> 00:42:34,725 we were running and, but we would always say, this car is perfect. 1028 00:42:34,904 --> 00:42:38,564 One of the best cars he's had, that's when he used to have the top rail. 1029 00:42:38,805 --> 00:42:39,794 Jack EAM built it. 1030 00:42:39,794 --> 00:42:43,095 The rail went under the headers and then back up and over the car 1031 00:42:43,095 --> 00:42:47,415 that ran the vest, they put the bar back in above the headers. 1032 00:42:47,504 --> 00:42:48,944 The other car didn't have that. 1033 00:42:49,035 --> 00:42:51,524 And he says, you gotta run 1100 bar in the right front. 1034 00:42:51,524 --> 00:42:52,754 It's the only way it works. 1035 00:42:52,875 --> 00:42:56,865 Getting to run both of them, I could see what he was talking about, but you 1036 00:42:56,865 --> 00:43:01,035 had to run the other car different and so it would flex and the only way to 1037 00:43:01,035 --> 00:43:05,774 get it out was to put the bigger bar in and kinda like preload the car. 1038 00:43:05,865 --> 00:43:09,884 So from then on it's like the stiffer I can make the cars times it's, 1039 00:43:09,944 --> 00:43:13,875 I can make it a hundred percent by just using the shocks and the 1040 00:43:13,875 --> 00:43:19,035 bars and all the air pressures and stuff, or the car that flexes. 1041 00:43:19,290 --> 00:43:21,990 If you're on a little track, maybe that might be better. 1042 00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:26,100 But you go to a bank track, it's gonna flex too much and then you won't like it. 1043 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,880 So I was into building cars that were stiffer Okay. 1044 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,160 Or stronger when we designed some cars, and even if you look at the one on the 1045 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:40,440 back that we built in 77, I moved the Benzs in the frame where the top rail 1046 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,520 goes and made it a bigger space in between a lot of little things that made 1047 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:50,550 it stronger and it had X in the front, X in the bottom, and uh, that car won a 1048 00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:54,900 lot of races, but it wasn't all so much about what a design, but it was probably 1049 00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:59,040 about 250 pounds lighter than what everybody else was running at the time. 1050 00:43:59,045 --> 00:43:59,490 Oh, okay. 1051 00:43:59,610 --> 00:44:02,280 See, I pick up some things from Bobby Allen every now and then. 1052 00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:07,960 Because this stuff's always lighter than anybody else's, or it was, yeah. 1053 00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:10,120 One of the other things I thought was interesting. 1054 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,720 At one point, were you looking into Turbocharged v sixes? 1055 00:44:13,870 --> 00:44:14,350 Yeah. 1056 00:44:14,410 --> 00:44:14,620 Yeah. 1057 00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:18,460 I had a deal going, you know, back when we

were just starting to do that, the Indy 1058 00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:23,560 Clear stuff, they had the Buick V six Fine Engine and the Turbocharged at that time. 1059 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,350 It didn't, there wasn't anything there that said anything about 1060 00:44:26,350 --> 00:44:27,460 you couldn't have a turbo. 1061 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,569 How long did that last? 1062 00:44:28,810 --> 00:44:32,589 Well, we never got started this time. 1063 00:44:32,589 --> 00:44:34,779 I called Ted said, Hey, I got this corporate deal. 1064 00:44:34,779 --> 00:44:38,230 You know, maybe you could get some money from GM and I could get 1065 00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:41,200 these motors and, but I guess they didn't want to give him any money 1066 00:44:43,509 --> 00:44:46,930 because before we ever got it off the ground, you know, there was a rule. 1067 00:44:46,930 --> 00:44:47,950 No turbos. 1068 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:50,790 It was gonna be lighter. 1069 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,509 You know, there was a car that run up here that the Cook Brothers had 1070 00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:58,620 that they ran quite a bit, ran pretty good, and it was definitely lighter. 1071 00:44:58,740 --> 00:44:59,009 Yeah. 1072 00:44:59,339 --> 00:45:02,430 But with the turbo, we could, you know, they, they were telling me how much 1073 00:45:02,430 --> 00:45:05,939 boost they could make and, and make it live with a thousand horsepower. 1074 00:45:05,939 --> 00:45:08,850 Well, at that time, that was like, you know, and you just got the no, 1075 00:45:08,850 --> 00:45:10,529 you can turn a boost up and down. 1076 00:45:10,529 --> 00:45:13,859 It's like, okay, well this is qualifying mode or this past mode. 1077 00:45:13,859 --> 00:45:15,419 This is like race mode. 1078 00:45:15,450 --> 00:45:17,399 It is like, we could cut it up and down. 1079 00:45:17,609 --> 00:45:20,399 I mean, that would've thrown a big can of worms and stuff there. 1080 00:45:21,870 --> 00:45:24,000 But that's one that never got off the ground. 1081 00:45:24,029 --> 00:45:25,620 That never got off the end. 1082 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:26,850 Let's jump ahead here. 1083 00:45:26,850 --> 00:45:32,939 1990 and 91, combine those two seasons, 69 wins. 1084 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,359 And among them, I think we got here Seals Grove National Open, 1085 00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:38,189 that was 50,000 and a headdress. 1086 00:45:38,279 --> 00:45:39,720 That was kind of goofy, wasn't it? 1087 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:43,500 You got a $50,000 check, you don't care what you're wearing. 1088 00:45:44,370 --> 00:45:44,670 Yeah. 1089 00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:48,630 When they come out and it's like, what's the, okay. 1090 00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:52,560 Syracuse Nationals. 1091 00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:52,680 Yeah. 1092 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,759 Won them twice. 1093 00:45:53,820 --> 00:45:53,970 Yeah. 1094 00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:55,410 Ohio speed week twice. 1095 00:45:55,470 --> 00:45:57,630 There was a little thing called

the Fram dash at North Texas 1096 00:45:57,630 --> 00:45:59,550 Speedway paid 65,000 win. 1097 00:45:59,580 --> 00:46:00,690 You took their money and ran. 1098 00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:01,080 Yeah. 1099 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,325 That was the only two they had. 1100 00:46:04,020 --> 00:46:05,940 I guess they, they got tired of, uh. 1101 00:46:06,425 --> 00:46:07,355 Writing checks to you? 1102 00:46:07,355 --> 00:46:07,895 I don't know. 1103 00:46:08,195 --> 00:46:10,985 1990 of course was a big year here in Pennsylvania. 1104 00:46:11,015 --> 00:46:13,715 'cause Bobby Allen, the hometown boy wins the Knoxville nationals. 1105 00:46:13,715 --> 00:46:14,705 That was a dual with you. 1106 00:46:14,855 --> 00:46:18,905 Tell us the story behind the oil leak was the TMC car. 1107 00:46:18,965 --> 00:46:21,095 We were running Girdy motors back then. 1108 00:46:21,095 --> 00:46:24,635 We had those barroso valve coverage that were stamped out there were pretty thin. 1109 00:46:24,755 --> 00:46:27,215 You know, you had to be careful or you'd bend it too much, 1110 00:46:27,305 --> 00:46:28,925 you could tighten it down. 1111 00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:30,725 You know, you just had to be careful with it. 1112 00:46:30,875 --> 00:46:31,085 Okay. 1113 00:46:31,085 --> 00:46:33,995 And um, uh, they had some trouble with the gaskets. 1114 00:46:33,995 --> 00:46:38,045 You know, they would try to push out or push in, you know, and if they pushed in 1115 00:46:38,045 --> 00:46:42,215 a little bit, they'd hit the valve springs in the valve springs, like pull 'em on in. 1116 00:46:42,365 --> 00:46:42,695 Wow. 1117 00:46:43,055 --> 00:46:47,195 They decided they would make a gasket with a steel piece in the middle. 1118 00:46:47,345 --> 00:46:50,225 I got some that they used a different glue on. 1119 00:46:50,495 --> 00:46:51,755 Some run somewhere. 1120 00:46:51,755 --> 00:46:53,765 Somebody grabbed the wrong sauce. 1121 00:46:54,515 --> 00:46:54,935 Hmm. 1122 00:46:55,174 --> 00:46:59,884 It slid in the, on the right side, so it was making a big mess. 1123 00:46:59,975 --> 00:47:01,174 You were pretty well saturated. 1124 00:47:01,295 --> 00:47:04,145 You couldn't see, 'cause it would blow up in your face and then 1125 00:47:04,145 --> 00:47:08,075 it was just, uh, tear offs, so you're just wiping oil visor. 1126 00:47:08,105 --> 00:47:12,725 Well then, but your hands would get so wet that on one yellow, they, 1127 00:47:13,055 --> 00:47:16,505 I got 'em to get me some tear offs and then I threw my gloves out and 1128 00:47:16,505 --> 00:47:17,795 they threw me some more gloves. 1129 00:47:17,795 --> 00:47:19,384 I put them on under caution. 1130 00:47:19,505 --> 00:47:19,865 Yeah. 1131 00:47:20,105 --> 00:47:20,495 Wow. 1132 00:47:20,645 --> 00:47:22,205 Yeah, I had some talented guys. 1133 00:47:25,245 --> 00:47:27,045 That knew what I was talking about. 1134 00:47:27,075 --> 00:47:28,095 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1135 00:47:28,214 --> 00:47:29,265 Hand signals. 1136 00:47:29,625 --> 00:47:31,455 But that was another one up there. 1137 00:47:31,455 --> 00:47:35,565 I could've won fairly easily, but it got so bad and the steer one got 1138 00:47:35,565 --> 00:47:39,645 so slippery that I was having to drive it, holding onto the spokes. 1139 00:47:39,735 --> 00:47:42,134 I tried to run the bottom 'cause that's where Bobby was. 1140 00:47:42,134 --> 00:47:45,225 I knew if I could just run the bottom that, but I couldn't see it good 1141 00:47:45,225 --> 00:47:47,295 enough to hit it, you know, slid out. 1142 00:47:47,295 --> 00:47:50,235 But I guess the lighting wasn't, the track lighting wasn't as 1143 00:47:50,235 --> 00:47:51,705 good then as it as it is now. 1144 00:47:51,705 --> 00:47:55,140 So that's gonna play into it when you Yeah, but have lifted this, you 1145 00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:58,005 know, they, they paint their wall a lot up there, Knoxville, so I just 1146 00:47:58,005 --> 00:48:00,525 follow the white line up at the top. 1147 00:48:00,525 --> 00:48:03,795 But it was just a little more than I could, he was good enough 1148 00:48:03,795 --> 00:48:05,714 to be better than my off day. 1149 00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:06,339 Yeah. 1150 00:48:08,384 --> 00:48:11,775 It wasn't very easy to drive, but I sure wanted the wind. 1151 00:48:12,045 --> 00:48:12,795 I didn't crash. 1152 00:48:12,795 --> 00:48:13,665 Ran second. 1153 00:48:13,755 --> 00:48:13,875 Yeah. 1154 00:48:13,875 --> 00:48:17,205 I remember watching that event and the thing I didn't consider at the time 1155 00:48:17,205 --> 00:48:19,185 was, was how slick that steering wheel. 1156 00:48:19,390 --> 00:48:22,870 Would've been between not being able to see and not being able to, hold on. 1157 00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:23,230 Yeah. 1158 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:23,590 Yeah. 1159 00:48:23,830 --> 00:48:26,560 Generally, you like to have both of those things planted in your favor. 1160 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:26,830 Yeah. 1161 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,360 Well, I was in the car and it was pretty ugly, me driving and bouncing, hitting 1162 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,700 this and that, but kept my foot down. 1163 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:34,510 There you go. 1164 00:48:34,935 --> 00:48:38,775 1991. 92. World of Outlaws did a little experimenting. 1165 00:48:38,775 --> 00:48:41,775 They ran some pavement races that played to your strength. 1166 00:48:41,805 --> 00:48:43,035 You had three wins twice. 1167 00:48:43,035 --> 00:48:44,655 You were a runner up and a top five. 1168 00:48:44,805 --> 00:48:48,285 Was that partly because of, at the time you were doing some pavement racing? 1169 00:48:48,495 --> 00:48:49,065 I don't know. 1170 00:48:49,065 --> 00:48:54,045 I think that my take on running the tracks that get brokered up, you know, it's 1171 00:48:54,045 --> 00:48:57,915 like you'll see a lot of guys that, that when a track gets locked down mm-hmm. 1172 00:48:58,155 --> 00:49:01,035 You know, they're still wanting to gas it and have the back out a 1173

00:49:01,035 --> 00:49:04,935 little bit and they, you see 'em, it looks nice, they're tired smoking. 1174 00:49:04,935 --> 00:49:08,295 But I was always good at just finesse with the throttle and 1175 00:49:08,295 --> 00:49:10,815 stuff to keep everything straight. 1176 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:12,490 And carrying a lot of speed. 1177 00:49:12,730 --> 00:49:16,690 And so when we got the payment stuff that suited me, and I think 1178 00:49:16,690 --> 00:49:19,870 that was another reason they may have decided not to do that. 1179 00:49:19,930 --> 00:49:20,380 That, yeah. 1180 00:49:20,890 --> 00:49:24,609 Uh, the other guy was having a trouble with, didn't win a race on payment. 1181 00:49:24,819 --> 00:49:25,720 There was another guy. 1182 00:49:25,870 --> 00:49:27,160 Well, he should be on your list. 1183 00:49:27,220 --> 00:49:30,520 Yeah, no, I was just, I didn't know if you wanted to elaborate. 1184 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,600 We can come back to that later. 1185 00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:34,299 Um, yeah, let's come back to that later. 1186 00:49:34,930 --> 00:49:41,650 19, uh, 92 33 wins, including the King's Royal Silver Cup at Lerner V. 1187 00:49:42,130 --> 00:49:45,730 And incidentally, this is your third consecutive year with 30 or more wins. 1188 00:49:45,819 --> 00:49:49,000 And I'm gonna mention this one because I think our videographer, Steve 1189 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,370 Gigas, I think he has footage of this. 1190 00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:54,900 You won at the Suncoast Dome in Florida. 1191 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,060 That was uh, earlier indoor race. 1192 00:49:57,060 --> 00:49:57,270 Yeah. 1193 00:49:57,570 --> 00:49:57,930 Yeah. 1194 00:49:57,930 --> 00:49:58,740 That was different. 1195 00:49:58,740 --> 00:50:00,150 Running in a baseball field. 1196 00:50:00,210 --> 00:50:00,990 Is that what that was? 1197 00:50:01,140 --> 00:50:02,340 It didn't pay very good. 1198 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,490 No, we didn't get paid at all. 1199 00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:12,210 I'll go down in the Get us book Oral Records of whether the World 1200 00:50:12,210 --> 00:50:15,510 Outlaw Race that paid zero $0. 1201 00:50:16,535 --> 00:50:18,275 Another series I'd like you to talk about. 1202 00:50:18,275 --> 00:50:21,455 Sammy, winner of 92, 93 and then again 93 94. 1203 00:50:21,455 --> 00:50:25,085 And I remember when this hit television, diamond P Sports and Pat Patterson, 1204 00:50:25,085 --> 00:50:27,035 that slick 50 Sprint car World Series. 1205 00:50:27,035 --> 00:50:28,565 What did that do for the sport? 1206 00:50:28,805 --> 00:50:31,895 Uh, well, it brought some live TV in, you know, I think there 1207 00:50:31,895 --> 00:50:34,130 was some before with the TNN. 1208 00:50:34,505 --> 00:50:34,835 Right? 1209 00:50:34,955 --> 00:50:37,865 You know, it was just a deal that Pat Patterson put together. 1210 00:50:37,985 --> 00:50:41,884 He got some money from SL 50 and was able to promote those races alive. 1211 00:50:42,455 --> 00:50:45,005 It just gave another opportunity to do that. 1212 00:50:45,009 --> 00:50:49,715 And, and, you know, TV brings in, it's a lot easier to, to get the 1213 00:50:49,715 --> 00:50:51,904 corporate money when you're on tv. 1214 00:50:52,025 --> 00:50:52,265 Yeah. 1215 00:50:52,595 --> 00:50:56,705 I don't think that at the time it, the stuff they had or the way, you know, 1216 00:50:56,705 --> 00:51:00,815 they could really do a, a great job with it and some of it they wanted 1217 00:51:00,815 --> 00:51:04,985 to do it at a certain time so it wasn't the best time for a dirt track. 1218 00:51:05,075 --> 00:51:05,465 Okay. 1219 00:51:05,674 --> 00:51:07,384 Uh, 'cause a lot of what we were doing. 1220 00:51:07,854 --> 00:51:09,265 You know, before the sun went down. 1221 00:51:09,564 --> 00:51:13,825 But you know, it gave an opportunity to do sprint car races on live tv. 1222 00:51:13,884 --> 00:51:14,154 Yeah. 1223 00:51:14,185 --> 00:51:15,084 Was that January? 1224 00:51:15,205 --> 00:51:15,535 Yeah. 1225 00:51:16,165 --> 00:51:16,194 Okay. 1226 00:51:16,194 --> 00:51:18,384 I believe, I believe it was So first year it was a Manzanita. 1227 00:51:18,535 --> 00:51:19,794 You're in the TMC number one. 1228 00:51:19,794 --> 00:51:21,084 I think you had three wins that year. 1229 00:51:21,084 --> 00:51:22,915 Second season you had a victory. 1230 00:51:22,915 --> 00:51:25,884 It was hosted at Canyon Speedway and then you were in uh, I 1231 00:51:25,884 --> 00:51:27,115 think Jeff Gilliam's car. 1232 00:51:27,174 --> 00:51:27,444 Yep. 1233 00:51:27,805 --> 00:51:30,294 You talked about corporate money, you talked about exposure. 1234 00:51:30,384 --> 00:51:32,935 That's something you were acutely aware of from the beginning. 1235 00:51:32,964 --> 00:51:33,055 Mm-hmm. 1236 00:51:33,294 --> 00:51:35,035 Presentation is part of the game. 1237 00:51:35,095 --> 00:51:38,484 You gotta bring a quality product to the table, but a better look good as well. 1238 00:51:38,484 --> 00:51:40,285 You got a better chance of bringing some money in. 1239 00:51:40,404 --> 00:51:40,794 Yeah. 1240 00:51:40,975 --> 00:51:44,785 Well that was from probably me going up to the speedway there at Indy 1241 00:51:44,814 --> 00:51:48,895 and seeing Roger Penske stuff, and I decided I needed to be like that. 1242 00:51:49,194 --> 00:51:50,125 Not a bad model. 1243 00:51:50,185 --> 00:51:50,634 No. 1244 00:51:50,995 --> 00:51:54,654 1995 you established Swindell Motor Sports. 1245 00:51:54,685 --> 00:51:56,845 First off, it's the Hooters number one win. 1246 00:51:56,845 --> 00:52:01,555 10 out of 48 starts that year, including five straight with the world of outlaws. 1247 00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:03,020 Starting your own team. 1248 00:52:03,169 --> 00:52:04,220 That's a pretty strong effort. 1249 00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:05,660 Yeah, it was expensive too. 1250 00:52:07,310 --> 00:52:09,620 But yeah, we did that that whole year. 1251 00:52:09,620 --> 00:52:15,350 We had two

cars and, and uh, one motor didn't get to run like a whole season 1252 00:52:15,350 --> 00:52:19,879 with the Ls, but you know, I was able to run quite a few races following year. 1253 00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:24,290 Channellock comes on board, and then in 1997 you claim your 1254 00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:25,819 third world of Outlaws title. 1255 00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:28,490 And I think significantly, that's no longer an issue, but at the 1256 00:52:28,490 --> 00:52:31,549 time, people questioned whether you could do it at your age. 1257 00:52:31,609 --> 00:52:31,700 Yeah. 1258 00:52:31,939 --> 00:52:33,950 You were what, 41 going on 42? 1259 00:52:34,310 --> 00:52:34,640 Yeah. 1260 00:52:34,819 --> 00:52:39,500 And in the process became the first owner driver to win a World of Outlaws title. 1261 00:52:39,620 --> 00:52:40,549 I never thought of that. 1262 00:52:43,350 --> 00:52:47,520 You seem to take a great deal of pleasure in proving people wrong, proving that you 1263 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,900 can do what you set out to do, and I think that's, that's a great trait to have. 1264 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:52,170 Yeah. 1265 00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:55,560 Well, this past year I ran 18 races. 1266 00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,160 One six did I see you were out in Victor Lane pretty frequently. 1267 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:00,240 Were you out in Colorado? 1268 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,470 Am I remembering correctly? 1269 00:53:01,590 --> 00:53:01,890 Yes. 1270 00:53:01,890 --> 00:53:01,900 Mm-hmm. 1271 00:53:02,010 --> 00:53:02,340 Okay. 1272 00:53:02,670 --> 00:53:03,570 Whose car are you in there? 1273 00:53:03,690 --> 00:53:06,750 I've been in different guys' cars out there, but I've been there 1274 00:53:06,750 --> 00:53:09,000 five times and won four of 'em. 1275 00:53:09,330 --> 00:53:11,010 Shoulda have won the fifth time, but. 1276 00:53:13,335 --> 00:53:15,285 I started fifth and got a good run. 1277 00:53:15,285 --> 00:53:18,495 I went to the top, so I was behind the guy that started on the front. 1278 00:53:18,674 --> 00:53:19,815 Well, he spins out. 1279 00:53:20,055 --> 00:53:22,035 There's a guy right underneath me, so there's no place. 1280 00:53:22,035 --> 00:53:23,355 I just had to stop. 1281 00:53:23,685 --> 00:53:27,855 So started 23rd and I think I run fourth, but it got rubber 1282 00:53:28,005 --> 00:53:29,685 up, but it was hard to pass. 1283 00:53:29,685 --> 00:53:31,965 But I was doing it and did more of the same this year. 1284 00:53:32,205 --> 00:53:35,295 Well, no, haven't been out there since I've been 69. 1285 00:53:37,335 --> 00:53:38,535 Dude, you gotta keep it rolling. 1286 00:53:38,535 --> 00:53:39,674 You gotta keep your streak alive. 1287 00:53:39,674 --> 00:53:42,674 Yeah, it's like at some point I'm gonna be too old. 1288 00:53:43,634 --> 00:53:46,305 I don't think I've thought I'd ever hear you say that. 1289 00:53:46,935 --> 00:53:48,585 Well, that's what everybody else says. 1290 00:53:49,065 --> 00:53:49,365 Well, yeah. 1291 00:53:49,455 --> 00:53:49,965 Okay. 1292 00:53:50,504 --> 00:53:54,404 97, 7 straight winds on a West Coast swing. 1293 00:53:54,615 --> 00:53:55,875 That's almost unheard of anymore. 1294 00:53:56,174 --> 00:54:00,134 Well, that was right after losing another Knoxville National. 1295 00:54:00,194 --> 00:54:03,285 Was that the Mark incident or am I misremembering man? 1296 00:54:03,285 --> 00:54:04,125 It might've been. 1297 00:54:04,214 --> 00:54:04,694 I don't know. 1298 00:54:04,694 --> 00:54:05,415 There's a bunch of 'em. 1299 00:54:06,075 --> 00:54:06,615 Too many. 1300 00:54:06,855 --> 00:54:07,274 Yeah. 1301 00:54:07,335 --> 00:54:10,095 But you did win your first Williams Grove National Open. 1302 00:54:10,185 --> 00:54:11,145 Yeah, that was nice. 1303 00:54:11,145 --> 00:54:12,315 It was swept the weekend. 1304 00:54:12,375 --> 00:54:12,884 Oh, okay. 1305 00:54:13,365 --> 00:54:15,345 That was a sweep the weekend and, and Sammy's defense. 1306 00:54:15,345 --> 00:54:17,085 Let me share this and, and I think this is. 1307 00:54:17,155 --> 00:54:18,445 Perfectly logical. 1308 00:54:18,595 --> 00:54:21,625 He said, people will ask him from time to time about a certain 1309 00:54:21,625 --> 00:54:24,565 event, certain race, that type of thing, and it just escapes him. 1310 00:54:24,775 --> 00:54:29,065 But he has had so much success that sometimes it's difficult to remember 1311 00:54:29,155 --> 00:54:30,685 everything that you have accomplished. 1312 00:54:30,715 --> 00:54:35,215 Whereas if I'm a racer and I've got two big wins, I'm gonna be able to 1313 00:54:35,215 --> 00:54:39,685 tell you every lap and who I beat, you know, what I ate for dinner 1314 00:54:39,685 --> 00:54:40,945 that evening, that type of thing. 1315 00:54:40,945 --> 00:54:42,175 But, uh, swept the weekend. 1316 00:54:42,235 --> 00:54:43,345 Now let's jump ahead. 1317 00:54:43,345 --> 00:54:48,235 1999, another $50,000 check for winning your Second Kings Royal. 1318 00:54:48,355 --> 00:54:50,245 Well, I've always enjoyed running at Eldora. 1319 00:54:50,335 --> 00:54:52,645 What is it about Eldora that you, is it go back to that whole 1320 00:54:52,645 --> 00:54:56,875 Syracuse mindset, some of it, but that's where I got my nickname too. 1321 00:54:57,325 --> 00:54:57,775 I'm listening. 1322 00:54:58,045 --> 00:54:58,945 Well, you know what it is. 1323 00:54:59,905 --> 00:55:04,735 I know what one is, but I, I was under the impression that slamming Sammy came 1324 00:55:04,735 --> 00:55:08,035 from your father being swinging Sam and they started calling you, slamming 1325 00:55:08,035 --> 00:55:09,415 Sammy when you were really young. 1326 00:55:09,505 --> 00:55:10,555 No, no, no. 1327 00:55:11,365 --> 00:55:12,715 We're gonna have to talk to Bob Mayes then. 1328 00:55:12,745 --> 00:55:17,815 Yeah, well this was at El Dora and, um, Terry Bal I to announcer Earl son. 1329 00:55:18,505 --> 00:55:22,555 And uh, I was one of the first people to run wide

open around there. 1330 00:55:22,615 --> 00:55:22,975 Okay. 1331 00:55:23,125 --> 00:55:24,475 So that's where he was. 1332 00:55:24,535 --> 00:55:26,365 I was slamming the corner, so. 1333 00:55:26,425 --> 00:55:26,845 Okay. 1334 00:55:26,845 --> 00:55:28,225 The nickname went from there. 1335 00:55:28,285 --> 00:55:28,735 Okay. 1336 00:55:29,365 --> 00:55:30,745 Yeah, there's a lot of 'em that could fit. 1337 00:55:30,895 --> 00:55:31,135 So 1338 00:55:33,145 --> 00:55:37,945 going back to high speed events, Bristol Motor Speedway, 2000, 2001, and this 1339 00:55:37,945 --> 00:55:43,285 is ridiculous, you turned a qualifying lap of 1 38 0.44 and if I'm remembering 1340 00:55:43,285 --> 00:55:46,765 correctly, and I could be off here, but I think that was faster than the cup cars. 1341 00:55:46,915 --> 00:55:47,245 Yeah. 1342 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,240 Channellock wanted me to go up there since they were sponsoring event, asked 1343 00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:53,130 me to go up there and run on the pavement. 1344 00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:56,310 They had, it worked out where I could go out there right before the cup race 1345 00:55:56,310 --> 00:55:59,580 started and there was a lot of guys there that didn't want me to do that. 1346 00:55:59,670 --> 00:56:00,060 No. 1347 00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:04,110 And uh, we just put some pavement tires on our car and went out, ran 1348 00:56:04,170 --> 00:56:06,120 and, uh, on the pavement and it was. 1349 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,120 I might have run faster that day, but I wasn't the right gear in it. 1350 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,560 It's like, oh, it's like if I put a gear in, it'll run about 160. 1351 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:15,370 It should be okay. 1352 00:56:15,370 --> 00:56:15,945 But it wasn't. 1353 00:56:16,225 --> 00:56:21,490 It wasn't because it was about 8,600, about halfway down, so I was just 1354 00:56:21,490 --> 00:56:25,330 pedaling it, but I still ran a half a second faster than the cup cars. 1355 00:56:25,420 --> 00:56:25,750 Wow. 1356 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,310 A lot of guys came down there, officials and was looking at it because they were 1357 00:56:30,310 --> 00:56:34,660 worried that I would crash or something would happen because their race was gonna 1358 00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:36,700 go right out after I was on the track. 1359 00:56:36,820 --> 00:56:37,180 Oh, okay. 1360 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,810 But I was friends with Gary Nelson at the time that was running, so 1361 00:56:40,930 --> 00:56:42,220 he said, you're gonna be all right. 1362 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:43,210 I said, sure. 1363 00:56:44,795 --> 00:56:48,095 It was different running on that because you know, when they put the dirt on, it 1364 00:56:48,095 --> 00:56:49,925 went all the way down to the inside wall. 1365 00:56:49,925 --> 00:56:53,735 So it was maybe, you know, I think they said 24 degrees or 1366 00:56:54,005 --> 00:56:56,165 it's 36 up on the pavement. 1367 00:56:56,375 --> 00:56:56,885 I don't know. 1368

00:56:56,945 --> 00:57:01,325 Once I took off and kind of got rolling, it like can't see where the wall is 1369 00:57:01,325 --> 00:57:06,575 'cause the winds and like leaning down, geez, when I'm coming off the corner to 1370 00:57:06,575 --> 00:57:12,455 see, well it's coming up good to know when I come it's like, well I gotta 1371 00:57:12,455 --> 00:57:14,285 think about that when we come back. 1372 00:57:14,285 --> 00:57:18,665 But that was a blast just cruising around there and still going that fast. 1373 00:57:19,025 --> 00:57:21,695 I was a little worried 'cause the tires I got were some super 1374 00:57:21,695 --> 00:57:23,075 modified tires of Goodyear. 1375 00:57:23,075 --> 00:57:27,635 That's all they had that they used to run like up in the northeast and I think 1376 00:57:27,635 --> 00:57:30,635 they were probably 15 or 18 years old. 1377 00:57:30,815 --> 00:57:31,565 Well that's comforting. 1378 00:57:31,565 --> 00:57:34,145 So it's like, are we really gonna make it. 1379 00:57:35,390 --> 00:57:35,750 Yeah. 1380 00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:39,410 When we went there, we practiced the first Bristol Dirt event. 1381 00:57:39,620 --> 00:57:43,310 When I was walking out later, there was a state trooper up there and 1382 00:57:43,310 --> 00:57:44,930 he said, you're the fastest one. 1383 00:57:45,049 --> 00:57:46,279 I said, oh, yeah. 1384 00:57:46,339 --> 00:57:47,720 He said, got you on a deal. 1385 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:48,920 I said, how fast am I going? 1386 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:49,759 He said, 180 5. 1387 00:57:51,285 --> 00:57:52,035 That's cool. 1388 00:57:52,545 --> 00:57:53,055 That's cool. 1389 00:57:54,165 --> 00:57:55,515 You won both of those shows. 1390 00:57:55,605 --> 00:57:58,845 I remember the 2001 show I was there with SCN Radio. 1391 00:57:58,845 --> 00:57:59,595 We covered that. 1392 00:57:59,654 --> 00:58:00,674 Wayne Harper and I were there. 1393 00:58:00,734 --> 00:58:00,855 Mm-hmm. 1394 00:58:01,275 --> 00:58:03,194 Ridiculous Dual with Jeff Shepherd. 1395 00:58:03,435 --> 00:58:04,910 He was just a pest for a while. 1396 00:58:06,529 --> 00:58:07,109 For a while. 1397 00:58:07,725 --> 00:58:12,884 Well, I did win, but no, I just mean Jeff's the guy that likes to stir the pot. 1398 00:58:12,915 --> 00:58:13,185 That's all. 1399 00:58:13,185 --> 00:58:16,125 I mean, yeah, we'd been riding motorcycles earlier the day. 1400 00:58:16,214 --> 00:58:18,075 We were both friends with Les Stewart. 1401 00:58:18,255 --> 00:58:18,435 Yeah. 1402 00:58:18,435 --> 00:58:20,685 I didn't start him before I had start back, so I had to get 1403 00:58:20,685 --> 00:58:22,365 through a couple cars pretty quick. 1404 00:58:22,365 --> 00:58:26,265 But you know, I passed Jeff on one end and the other end he passed me back. 1405 00:58:26,295 --> 00:58:28,470 We did that about three times and I said, okay. 1406 00:58:29,149 --> 00:58:30,230 I'm gonna change this up. 1407 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,270 I'm gonna pass him at the end. 1408 00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:34,339 He passes me, then he disappeared. 1409 00:58:35,930 --> 00:58:37,549 He couldn't pass me back on the other. 1410 00:58:37,549 --> 00:58:39,890 End out a rhythm out nowhere. 1411 00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:40,640 Out of balance. 1412 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:42,350 Oh, let's go. 1413 00:58:42,350 --> 00:58:46,190 2010, your second stint with Todd Queering, you'd filled in before 1414 00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:50,299 for Terry MCC Carl, you win your second Williams Grove National Open. 1415 00:58:50,359 --> 00:58:51,799 You set fast time that night. 1416 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,450 Couple things worth mentioning here. 1417 00:58:54,035 --> 00:58:57,485 I was actually watching it last night on the vault on uh, dirt Vision 1418 00:58:57,755 --> 00:58:59,405 pass on the restart for the lead. 1419 00:58:59,525 --> 00:59:01,085 He went through the middle was brilliant. 1420 00:59:01,265 --> 00:59:06,365 And that win ended a streak of nine consecutive wins by the posse. 1421 00:59:06,515 --> 00:59:07,145 Sorry, Lee. 1422 00:59:07,175 --> 00:59:10,805 Lee style for, uh, Greg Knick's mechanic is uh, here and they had 1423 00:59:10,805 --> 00:59:12,245 won three or four straight I think. 1424 00:59:12,245 --> 00:59:13,445 But that was a strong effort. 1425 00:59:13,625 --> 00:59:15,305 I think Jason Myers was leading it. 1426 00:59:15,395 --> 00:59:17,135 Yeah, he seen me on the bottom. 1427 00:59:17,135 --> 00:59:18,575 So he moved over. 1428 00:59:18,665 --> 00:59:20,195 I think you came from seventh that night. 1429 00:59:20,375 --> 00:59:24,545 I know the night before it was like we had a late number, so we went out 1430 00:59:24,605 --> 00:59:27,725 and made the rates, but we started to way back and my guys were like, 1431 00:59:27,730 --> 00:59:29,075 what are we going do for tomorrow? 1432 00:59:29,075 --> 00:59:29,915 And I said, nothing. 1433 00:59:30,215 --> 00:59:31,655 We just gotta get a good number. 1434 00:59:31,805 --> 00:59:34,415 And it's like I got the first one first out. 1435 00:59:34,535 --> 00:59:34,955 That's right. 1436 00:59:34,955 --> 00:59:36,005 You were first out fastest car. 1437 00:59:36,035 --> 00:59:37,175 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. 1438 00:59:37,175 --> 00:59:37,745 I forgot that. 1439 00:59:37,925 --> 00:59:38,195 Yeah. 1440 00:59:38,195 --> 00:59:42,065 I took a car that qualified like 28th or something the night before. 1441 00:59:42,155 --> 00:59:42,695 Mm-hmm. 1442 00:59:43,055 --> 00:59:44,465 And didn't touch it. 1443 00:59:44,705 --> 00:59:48,214 Sometime you just need that little bit for everything to fall in place. 1444 00:59:48,305 --> 00:59:48,515 Yeah. 1445 00:59:48,725 --> 00:59:49,865 And you gotta take advantage of it. 1446 00:59:49,955 --> 00:59:50,975 Take advantage of it. 1447 00:59:51,125 --> 00:59:52,685 Let's talk about racing the posse. 1448 00:59:52,835 --> 00:59:56,464 The fans historically get juiced when the world of outlaws come to town. 1449 00:59:56,524 -->

00:59:58,325 Some of the drivers do likewise. 1450 00:59:58,415 --> 01:00:00,634 And you took a lot of money home to Tennessee over the years. 1451 01:00:00,634 --> 01:00:03,455 16 career wins at Williams Grove. 1452 01:00:03,515 --> 01:00:06,185 They never victories at Hagerstown in the region here. 1453 01:00:06,605 --> 01:00:11,404 S Grove, even out Lerner, uh, where you took the Silver Cup on numerous occasions. 1454 01:00:11,464 --> 01:00:12,424 You've done well up this way. 1455 01:00:12,785 --> 01:00:13,924 I've always enjoyed coming up. 1456 01:00:13,955 --> 01:00:17,105 It was different, you know, when I first come up here, these were tracks 1457 01:00:17,105 --> 01:00:18,515 like I've never been on before. 1458 01:00:18,845 --> 01:00:20,435 Just the guys I got to race with. 1459 01:00:20,524 --> 01:00:24,815 Think Lynn Paxton had a good relationship for a long time, you 1460 01:00:24,815 --> 01:00:27,274 know, and Bobby Allen, um, smokey. 1461 01:00:28,265 --> 01:00:28,475 Mm-hmm. 1462 01:00:28,475 --> 01:00:31,294 Those a lot of guys we'd race and then we'd come in and they're all 1463 01:00:31,475 --> 01:00:34,384 come down and we're talking, you know, it's like you didn't have that a lot 1464 01:00:34,384 --> 01:00:37,625 of places, but, uh, there was just a lot of guys that was real friendly 1465 01:00:37,625 --> 01:00:39,455 and they didn't like me beating them. 1466 01:00:39,455 --> 01:00:42,845 But yeah, I don't know if they were coming down to talk to me 1467 01:00:42,845 --> 01:00:43,720 or they coming down to just. 1468 01:00:44,190 --> 01:00:45,180 Check out my car. 1469 01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:49,680 Yeah, something that you would do, you would walk through the pits. 1470 01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:53,100 I think I read somewhere you said where, you know, some guys might go down through 1471 01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:56,490 the pits and they might look at tires, or they might look at this particular area. 1472 01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:59,430 You said there might be like 30 things you're looking at. 1473 01:00:59,490 --> 01:01:02,520 How do you take all that in just on a stroll through the pits? 1474 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,560 Well, you can't always see all that every time, but. 1475 01:01:06,020 --> 01:01:08,089 There's things that might make a difference. 1476 01:01:08,180 --> 01:01:12,350 You know, one thing that helped when I was running full-time or, or when I run 1477 01:01:12,350 --> 01:01:15,799 with some of these guys, some there, there's guys that like their cars a 1478 01:01:15,799 --> 01:01:19,670 certain way and there's guys that would run their cars other, you know, it's 1479 01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:24,500 like I just paid attention to who was going fast at that time and I figured 1480 01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:28,250 that if I could make my car like theirs, I had a 50% chance of beating them. 1481 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,690 It's always seemed to work, but you know, it's being able to race with guys 1482 01:01:32,690 --> 01:01:35,029 a lot and they have their tendencies. 1483 01:01:35,150 --> 01:01:38,990 One guy likes more right rear, one more guy likes more left rear. 1484 01:01:39,140 --> 01:01:42,620 And you know, when guys jacked their cars up and stuff, you can look at 1485 01:01:42,620 --> 01:01:46,430 it and see how it looks and it gives me an idea of which direction to go. 1486 01:01:46,580 --> 01:01:49,759 And so if I'm off a little bit, I'll try to see cards. 1487 01:01:49,759 --> 01:01:51,740 That's the fastest, not the slowest. 1488 01:01:51,799 --> 01:01:52,190 Yeah. 1489 01:01:52,190 --> 01:01:52,250 Yeah. 1490 01:01:52,940 --> 01:01:54,319 It gives me a direction to go. 1491 01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:54,740 Yeah. 1492 01:01:55,125 --> 01:01:57,555 2012 King's Royal Win. 1493 01:01:57,555 --> 01:02:00,105 That's your third and 13 world of outlaw wins. 1494 01:02:00,105 --> 01:02:02,174 And you're doing all this at age 56. 1495 01:02:02,174 --> 01:02:03,855 So the winning just continues. 1496 01:02:03,915 --> 01:02:07,064 2014, retirement 2015. 1497 01:02:07,154 --> 01:02:10,605 Unre Retirement didn't last long, huh? 1498 01:02:10,875 --> 01:02:14,115 No, that was just a time came back filled in for Jason 1499 01:02:14,115 --> 01:02:15,285 Johnson, I believe for a while. 1500 01:02:15,404 --> 01:02:15,734 Yeah. 1501 01:02:15,794 --> 01:02:17,685 I got the call for the second time. 1502 01:02:18,435 --> 01:02:19,154 I think you got a lot of calls. 1503 01:02:19,154 --> 01:02:20,270 Didn't I Filled in for, yeah. 1504 01:02:20,270 --> 01:02:20,280 Yeah. 1505 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,694 A lot of, I was on the list a lot. 1506 01:02:22,754 --> 01:02:24,825 When somebody couldn't make it, they called me. 1507 01:02:24,915 --> 01:02:26,355 I don't think that's a bad call is it? 1508 01:02:26,415 --> 01:02:26,865 For them? 1509 01:02:26,865 --> 01:02:27,345 It wasn't. 1510 01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:32,705 I. You filled in for Jason Johnson then, uh, got behind the wheel of the 1511 01:02:32,705 --> 01:02:37,025 Chad Clemens car, swept the Jackson Nationals, and that's CJB number five. 1512 01:02:37,115 --> 01:02:43,445 Following year 2016, you won the Knoxville 360 nationals with the ag and G range. 1513 01:02:43,445 --> 01:02:48,185 3G In doing so, became only the second driver ever to win both four 1514 01:02:48,185 --> 01:02:50,345 10 and 360 Knoxville nationals. 1515 01:02:50,405 --> 01:02:54,815 Well, that's pretty good, I would think, given the list of entries. 1516 01:02:54,905 --> 01:02:57,425 So, hey, I wanna talk about that other guy that we, that we 1517 01:02:57,425 --> 01:02:59,015 touched on here a while back. 1518 01:02:59,075 --> 01:03:03,425 2016 you won at Lebanon Valley in New York and what turned out 1519 01:03:03,425 --> 01:03:05,225 to be Steve Kinzer's final race. 1520 01:03:05,255 --> 01:03:06,335 Is that a legit rivalry? 1521 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,220 If he told me he was going to quit, I probably would've let him win. 1522

01:03:11,870 --> 01:03:12,230 Really? 1523 01:03:13,580 --> 01:03:16,100 But it's like we're out there and I won and he comes up and it's 1524 01:03:16,100 --> 01:03:19,310 like, didn't know what he would be mad about, but then he retired. 1525 01:03:20,450 --> 01:03:21,440 I was surprised. 1526 01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:21,800 Yeah. 1527 01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:26,000 There was a lot of stuff that we got along fine for a lot of things. 1528 01:03:26,060 --> 01:03:28,640 Just every now and then it, it didn't work out. 1529 01:03:28,670 --> 01:03:30,710 But you know, we were able to do a lot. 1530 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,770 The two of us being that young to be put in the spot that we were in for so long. 1531 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:37,010 Mm-hmm. 1532 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,500 We're sort of two different people Really. 1533 01:03:39,530 --> 01:03:39,770 Yeah. 1534 01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:42,290 And there's nothing wrong with that, but it worked out 1535 01:03:42,290 --> 01:03:44,000 perfect for both of us really. 1536 01:03:44,325 --> 01:03:48,165 There's a lot of things that we did together that people never believe 1537 01:03:48,165 --> 01:03:51,765 or understand that we did, but it was always good for both of us. 1538 01:03:51,794 --> 01:03:55,815 I think it was two guys whose passion to win was almost equal 1539 01:03:55,904 --> 01:03:57,495 and neither guy was backing down. 1540 01:03:57,645 --> 01:04:00,674 You know, I don't know what the percentage would be, but I think we got a real 1541 01:04:00,734 --> 01:04:05,325 good percentage that finishing races, you know, uh, people wanna look at 1542 01:04:05,325 --> 01:04:10,305 the part, well, this happened or this happened, but, uh, we, we did tank a 1543 01:04:10,305 --> 01:04:12,615 couple times, but we never had a radio. 1544 01:04:12,615 --> 01:04:13,754 We could talk to each other. 1545 01:04:13,875 --> 01:04:16,185 So there's a lot of times he didn't know where I was going and 1546 01:04:16,185 --> 01:04:16,885 I didn't know where he was going. 1547 01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:18,470 And we met in the middle. 1548 01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:20,720 Fair enough. 1549 01:04:20,750 --> 01:04:23,060 We ran a lot of races together. 1550 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,480 You know, if, if you go back and add all that up, it's like, it's probably 1551 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:27,950 gonna have some pretty good odds. 1552 01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:28,250 Yeah. 1553 01:04:28,340 --> 01:04:30,980 That we got a lot of races that we ran together. 1554 01:04:30,980 --> 01:04:33,860 I didn't get to run all these outlaw deals like he did. 1555 01:04:34,009 --> 01:04:37,490 So he had the opportunity to run more races than I did. 1556 01:04:37,490 --> 01:04:39,020 But it's the way it works out. 1557 01:04:39,020 --> 01:04:40,190 But it, it was good. 1558 01:04:40,250 --> 01:04:40,880 It was fun. 1559 01:04:41,060 --> 01:04:43,190 I probably wouldn't have had a book if it hadn't been for him. 1560 01:04:44,660 --> 01:04:45,515 And I hear he's got one. 1561 01:04:45,545 --> 01:04:47,870 Yeah, he's working on a book right now with Dave Aride. 1562 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,330 Lemme promote his, that's very kind of you. 1563 01:04:50,780 --> 01:04:56,300 2017, you become the first five time winner of the I 30 Short Track Nationals. 1564 01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:59,900 The following year, 2018, you're now 62 years of age and you 1565 01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:02,570 embark on the A SCS National tour. 1566 01:05:02,660 --> 01:05:04,520 You had eight wins that season. 1567 01:05:04,580 --> 01:05:07,370 48th consecutive year with a feature win. 1568 01:05:07,550 --> 01:05:09,320 Yeah, it's, it's all been good. 1569 01:05:09,625 --> 01:05:11,245 It's just some days are better than others. 1570 01:05:12,565 --> 01:05:13,585 Uh, let's see here. 1571 01:05:13,645 --> 01:05:17,545 You jumped into a car, uh, from a fellow in the upper Midwest, Brandon phone. 1572 01:05:17,725 --> 01:05:20,995 You won an all star circuit of Champions race at I 34. 1573 01:05:20,995 --> 01:05:22,105 You were 62. 1574 01:05:22,375 --> 01:05:26,065 And then, dude, I gotta tell you, I love this and I'm sure anybody 1575 01:05:26,065 --> 01:05:27,385 who was watching in home loved it. 1576 01:05:27,385 --> 01:05:32,395 2019, you sat on the pole for the King's Royal at 63 years of age 1577 01:05:32,485 --> 01:05:34,375 and they decided to interview you. 1578 01:05:34,375 --> 01:05:34,435 Yeah. 1579 01:05:34,435 --> 01:05:36,775 Before the race in the cockpit. 1580 01:05:36,955 --> 01:05:38,035 And your response. 1581 01:05:38,065 --> 01:05:39,625 I said, who is this? 1582 01:05:39,655 --> 01:05:40,675 I didn't see that coming. 1583 01:05:40,675 --> 01:05:41,215 That was great. 1584 01:05:41,305 --> 01:05:41,755 Yeah. 1585 01:05:41,815 --> 01:05:42,925 Tell the fans about that. 1586 01:05:43,075 --> 01:05:46,255 And for those who may not have seen that interview, what happened there? 1587 01:05:46,405 --> 01:05:47,275 I just got excited. 1588 01:05:49,945 --> 01:05:52,075 It was like WWE e in the cockpit. 1589 01:05:52,195 --> 01:05:52,375 Yeah. 1590 01:05:52,375 --> 01:05:54,595 What's the, what's the guy's, the wrestler's name? 1591 01:05:54,865 --> 01:05:55,555 Rick Flair. 1592 01:05:55,645 --> 01:05:55,945 Yeah. 1593 01:05:56,035 --> 01:05:56,965 Little Rick Flair. 1594 01:05:57,055 --> 01:05:57,535 Yeah. 1595 01:05:57,655 --> 01:05:57,985 Yeah. 1596 01:05:58,105 --> 01:05:58,885 Fans loved it. 1597 01:05:59,035 --> 01:05:59,395 Yeah. 1598 01:05:59,485 --> 01:06:00,925 Eldora fans, they went nuts. 1599 01:06:01,015 --> 01:06:01,195 Yeah. 1600 01:06:01,195 --> 01:06:01,255 Yeah. 1601 01:06:02,395 --> 01:06:05,785 I heard 'em and I don't hear good. 1602 01:06:05,785 --> 01:06:05,845 Yeah. 1603 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,710 Talk for a little bit, if you would, Sammy, about your 1604 01:06:09,710 --> 01:06:11,390 success at the Chili Bowl. 1605 01:06:11,570 --> 01:06:14,000 You don't spend a whole

lot of time wheeling a midget. 1606 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:15,650 You're the only five time winner. 1607 01:06:15,650 --> 01:06:22,010 19 89, 92, 96, 98. And again in 2009, you know, if we go back to, I think 1608 01:06:22,010 --> 01:06:25,250 it's 76, and I'm at Erie, Colorado. 1609 01:06:25,490 --> 01:06:28,550 We're out there running Overrates with the Bobby Davis car. 1610 01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,070 That's where they had the, they had the Rocky Mountain Midget 1611 01:06:31,070 --> 01:06:35,780 Association and the one guy who got there, he asked me to drive his car. 1612 01:06:35,900 --> 01:06:38,780 I said, I've never seen a midget, but I'll drive it. 1613 01:06:39,060 --> 01:06:42,420 First night I won that, but not to take anything away, but it's like, 1614 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,589 you know, the sprint car is like, you're like riding a rocket and then 1615 01:06:46,589 --> 01:06:48,660 you get in these lower class cars. 1616 01:06:48,660 --> 01:06:54,420 It's just like things seem so slow compared to what you're doing, that you've 1617 01:06:54,450 --> 01:06:56,735 got all this more time for me to think. 1618 01:06:57,444 --> 01:07:01,134 You know about what I'm doing or how I'm doing it or what I need to change. 1619 01:07:01,225 --> 01:07:03,924 I would think anybody would still say that, you know, if you get out 1620 01:07:03,924 --> 01:07:08,694 of this card that's like just hauling butt and you get in one that's half 1621 01:07:08,694 --> 01:07:13,495 as fast, it's gotta be easy because the things come at you so fast. 1622 01:07:13,495 --> 01:07:17,424 It's like your brain or your computer's like going overtime 1623 01:07:17,515 --> 01:07:21,115 and so when you get in something else, it's like just all goes down. 1624 01:07:21,295 --> 01:07:22,670 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1625 01:07:22,674 --> 01:07:24,234 It's, it's different. 1626 01:07:24,325 --> 01:07:27,654 And I can see that everything I drove away, you know, like when I 1627 01:07:27,654 --> 01:07:32,095 got that late model early, the first night I drove it, it was terrible. 1628 01:07:32,214 --> 01:07:35,875 There was a lot of things, I mean, you had to pump the brakes and, and 1629 01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:37,615 a lot of times I don't like that. 1630 01:07:37,615 --> 01:07:37,655 I don't like that. 1631 01:07:37,655 --> 01:07:42,085 We gotta change this and, and then we come back and did a few other things 1632 01:07:42,205 --> 01:07:45,325 and then like won ever race, you know? 1633 01:07:45,325 --> 01:07:48,475 But it's just, once you did this, the other stuff's easier. 1634 01:07:48,845 --> 01:07:49,175 Okay. 1635 01:07:49,415 --> 01:07:53,075 And it's not to take it away from anybody that does this or that, but 1636 01:07:53,285 --> 01:07:57,035 you know, like when we first went to Tilly bowling or, or first time 1637 01:07:57,035 --> 01:08:00,665 I even went to Ascot, it's like, these guys are backing in the corner. 1638 01:08:01,025 --> 01:08:03,395 It's like, I don't think I need to do that. 1639 01:08:03,815 --> 01:08:05,345 That's helped with doing some of these other things. 1640 01:08:06,010 --> 01:08:08,110 That's the deal to win no matter what you get in. 1641 01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:08,500 Yeah. 1642 01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,540 Every time we figure out how to do it. 1643 01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:15,310 But once you've run these super fast cars, the lower ones are a lot easier. 1644 01:08:15,370 --> 01:08:15,520 Yeah. 1645 01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,500 Everything else falls for me anyway. 1646 01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:19,779 It's uh, it just gives you a lot of time to think. 1647 01:08:19,930 --> 01:08:22,540 Well your success with the Chili Bowl historically now has 1648 01:08:22,540 --> 01:08:23,950 made you a bit of a marked man. 1649 01:08:23,950 --> 01:08:27,940 When you go down there, people see the swindell car and they get up on the wheel. 1650 01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:28,450 Yeah. 1651 01:08:28,450 --> 01:08:32,410 I think some of it is the people we race with have got a lot younger. 1652 01:08:33,250 --> 01:08:37,270 Maybe some of their dads push 'em on, but haven't had very good 1653 01:08:37,270 --> 01:08:38,830 luck there the last few years. 1654 01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:40,029 Going back next year. 1655 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:44,170 Yeah, I'm gonna do that because I'm going to at least run a race when I'm 70. 1656 01:08:44,440 --> 01:08:44,890 There you go. 1657 01:08:45,250 --> 01:08:46,990 It might be the only one, but love it. 1658 01:08:52,300 --> 01:08:55,180 I'm guessing you don't feel 70 some days. 1659 01:08:56,980 --> 01:09:01,390 A lot of times I feel like I'm 35 or 40 with old plumbing. 1660 01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:08,819 I feel like we've only scratched the surface of what Sammy's accomplished, 1661 01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,450 uh, in open wheel, dirt track stuff, but it gives you a pretty good sampling 1662 01:09:12,569 --> 01:09:15,719 of where the guy's been, what he's done in the remaining time we have, 1663 01:09:15,779 --> 01:09:19,710 I wanna run through what he was doing while he was doing all that. 1664 01:09:19,830 --> 01:09:23,370 1982, you passed your rookie test at Indianapolis. 1665 01:09:23,370 --> 01:09:27,354 I mean, uh, you're fresh off of, uh, a couple World of Outlaws titles 1666 01:09:27,415 --> 01:09:30,715 and you're dipping your toes into the Indianapolis swimming pool. 1667 01:09:30,865 --> 01:09:37,165 1984, your first Daytona run with the Bush series in a Pontiac Ventura finished 12th. 1668 01:09:37,224 --> 01:09:41,785 And I think, uh, your comments regarding your experience at Daytona were similar 1669 01:09:41,844 --> 01:09:43,615 to what you experienced with the midget. 1670 01:09:43,705 --> 01:09:44,514 You're wide open. 1671 01:09:44,514 --> 01:09:46,194 You felt like everything was slow motion. 1672 01:09:46,344 --> 01:09:50,365 Well, not that time, but, but then later on I went down and was asked 1673 01:09:50,365 --> 01:09:54,804 to come down to do

a test with, uh, Dick Mosos car, his cub car. 1674 01:09:55,014 --> 01:10:00,054 After Robbie had passed, one of the older crew chiefs, you know, and he's talking 1675 01:10:00,054 --> 01:10:04,375 to me and, uh, I come in, I took, well, the car's doing this, it's doing that. 1676 01:10:04,375 --> 01:10:07,675 And he says, how make up cars you drove down here? 1677 01:10:07,675 --> 01:10:09,085 I said, this is the first one. 1678 01:10:09,355 --> 01:10:10,915 He says, how do you know all that? 1679 01:10:11,245 --> 01:10:15,055 I said, well, when I get down to the corner, I just let go of the wheel 1680 01:10:15,175 --> 01:10:17,575 and see which way where it goes. 1681 01:10:17,695 --> 01:10:22,105 You know, whether it goes down or goes up, and then I can tell you exactly what it's 1682 01:10:22,105 --> 01:10:24,325 doing because I have no influence over. 1683 01:10:24,655 --> 01:10:25,375 He says. 1684 01:10:25,860 --> 01:10:26,940 You take your hands off. 1685 01:10:27,059 --> 01:10:29,460 I said, I don't put 'em behind my head. 1686 01:10:32,339 --> 01:10:36,570 You just release it and let the car, because the Daytona is like, 1687 01:10:36,570 --> 01:10:38,219 you don't wanna scrub any speed. 1688 01:10:38,309 --> 01:10:40,679 If you got a death grip on it, you can't tell. 1689 01:10:40,740 --> 01:10:45,059 But if you just relax and just track it so big, we're still going fast, 1690 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:46,950 but there's nobody else out there. 1691 01:10:47,210 --> 01:10:47,460 Yeah. 1692 01:10:47,639 --> 01:10:48,570 You got time to breathe. 1693 01:10:48,719 --> 01:10:49,139 Yeah. 1694 01:10:49,410 --> 01:10:52,740 But it's still really narrow when you get other guys out there. 1695 01:10:52,769 --> 01:10:53,309 Yeah, sure. 1696 01:10:53,490 --> 01:10:54,990 You just gotta let it flow. 1697 01:10:54,990 --> 01:10:57,089 But I guess he wasn't ready for that answer. 1698 01:10:58,889 --> 01:10:59,669 I wouldn't imagine So. 1699 01:11:00,030 --> 01:11:01,920 Following year, 1985. 1700 01:11:01,950 --> 01:11:03,035 You went back to Daytona. 1701 01:11:03,344 --> 01:11:03,634 Here. 1702 01:11:03,644 --> 01:11:07,559 Sammy Swindell, the innovator comes into play, I guess the year before. 1703 01:11:07,620 --> 01:11:09,000 You had problems with the, what? 1704 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,099 The transmission tunnel with some heat on your leg? 1705 01:11:11,219 --> 01:11:11,550 Yeah. 1706 01:11:11,639 --> 01:11:14,340 And so what did you do to, uh, solve that problem? 1707 01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,759 Uh, we just put the deals down to the Hold Your leg off? 1708 01:11:17,820 --> 01:11:17,940 Yeah. 1709 01:11:17,940 --> 01:11:19,080 An extension off the seat. 1710 01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,330 The extension went all the way to the front on both sides. 1711 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:22,259 Who else was doing that? 1712 01:11:22,530 --> 01:11:23,099 Nobody. 1713 01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,580 But there was a lot of guys come over there and looked at that. 1714 01:11:26,580 --> 01:11:29,099 And they had, they had 'em shortly thereafter? 1715 01:11:29,250 --> 01:11:29,490 Yep. 1716 01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:33,000 Because, um, I was in a car. 1717 01:11:33,090 --> 01:11:33,990 It was an old car. 1718 01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:38,370 It was one of the first front steers cars and, um, it wasn't quite right. 1719 01:11:38,370 --> 01:11:42,840 We, but I had a buddy par helping me, so he was pretty good. 1720 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,030 He'd worked for quite a few Good guys. 1721 01:11:45,490 --> 01:11:48,070 And we were having a little trouble figuring out, but 1722 01:11:48,340 --> 01:11:49,510 I mean, we got it better. 1723 01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,460 But you know, I was out running along. 1724 01:11:52,150 --> 01:11:56,440 I come up behind Dave Marcus and got within about two and a half 1725 01:11:56,440 --> 01:12:01,360 cars behind him and going into what's used to be turned three. 1726 01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:02,890 His starter fell off. 1727 01:12:02,950 --> 01:12:05,200 So this stuff just goes everywhere. 1728 01:12:05,290 --> 01:12:07,900 You can't miss 50 pieces of stuff going. 1729 01:12:08,020 --> 01:12:09,640 It just shrapnel everywhere. 1730 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:10,180 Ran over it. 1731 01:12:10,180 --> 01:12:14,080 Well, it blew out the right front tire, and so I'm just trying to let it go 1732 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:17,770 up the hill to beat off some speed. 1733 01:12:18,130 --> 01:12:22,870 And about that time, I guess Kyle Petty was coming while he hits me in the rear 1734 01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:24,790 corner and turned to be 90 degrees. 1735 01:12:25,315 --> 01:12:26,155 Into the wall. 1736 01:12:26,305 --> 01:12:30,415 The first thing was, it was, um, you know, when it hit the wall it was pretty hard. 1737 01:12:30,595 --> 01:12:34,015 And we had those goggles, you know, so I had You were open face helmet? 1738 01:12:34,135 --> 01:12:35,095 Yeah, it was open face. 1739 01:12:35,275 --> 01:12:35,605 Okay. 1740 01:12:35,695 --> 01:12:38,635 But I had a nice pair of Scott motocross goggles. 1741 01:12:38,755 --> 01:12:42,655 I think they hit the windshield, which is about three feet out. 1742 01:12:42,775 --> 01:12:46,255 It doesn't matter which way I turned my head, it's gonna come back. 1743 01:12:46,255 --> 01:12:46,345 Yeah. 1744 01:12:46,345 --> 01:12:47,005 This is gonna hurt. 1745 01:12:47,065 --> 01:12:47,335 Right. 1746 01:12:48,925 --> 01:12:53,905 But that it was like, yeah, my feet dangled around too in that, so it's 1747 01:12:53,905 --> 01:12:58,765 like when I ran, the next time we put those extensions in, I had a sprint car 1748 01:12:58,765 --> 01:13:01,075 seat in there that we had to insert in. 1749 01:13:01,225 --> 01:13:04,195 Had a lot of guys coming over looking at that stuff. 1750 01:13:04,255 --> 01:13:06,265 But they didn't like my aluminum steering wheel. 1751 01:13:06,865 --> 01:13:08,275 No, no inspector. 1752 01:13:08,275 --> 01:13:09,205 Throw that

one out. 1753 01:13:09,474 --> 01:13:09,834 Oh, okay. 1754 01:13:10,644 --> 01:13:12,775 I didn't know it wasn't working. 1755 01:13:12,775 --> 01:13:13,584 I didn't know all the roles. 1756 01:13:13,615 --> 01:13:14,125 Yeah. 1757 01:13:14,125 --> 01:13:14,135 Yeah. 1758 01:13:14,394 --> 01:13:17,485 That was your cup start in Atlanta, qualified 30th out of 50 1759 01:13:17,485 --> 01:13:20,785 plus cars that same year, 1985. 1760 01:13:20,844 --> 01:13:21,865 You drove Cliff Bar's. 1761 01:13:22,044 --> 01:13:24,415 Number 11, modified for the Shafer 200. 1762 01:13:24,594 --> 01:13:27,445 Anybody want to guess where he qualified on the pole? 1763 01:13:27,714 --> 01:13:29,065 113 miles an hour. 1764 01:13:29,365 --> 01:13:30,865 Never been in one before. 1765 01:13:31,644 --> 01:13:32,365 Unbelievable. 1766 01:13:32,514 --> 01:13:33,894 And they picked Syracuse. 1767 01:13:33,955 --> 01:13:35,995 That's their mistake. 1768 01:13:35,995 --> 01:13:36,205 Huh? 1769 01:13:36,474 --> 01:13:37,554 It wasn't their mistake. 1770 01:13:37,554 --> 01:13:38,334 I don't think so. 1771 01:13:38,964 --> 01:13:41,394 Then the guy that was second quick was a sprint car guy. 1772 01:13:41,605 --> 01:13:42,594 I can't think of his name. 1773 01:13:42,594 --> 01:13:45,625 But anyway, he said I seen me go in that corner and didn't lift, and 1774 01:13:45,625 --> 01:13:47,634 so I didn't go when he drove his. 1775 01:13:47,844 --> 01:13:49,735 Yeah, we were, it was kind of weird. 1776 01:13:49,735 --> 01:13:53,964 There's two sprint car guys on the front of the biggest modified race in the world. 1777 01:13:53,995 --> 01:13:54,985 Yeah, exactly. 1778 01:13:55,224 --> 01:13:56,605 1985 Also. 1779 01:13:56,900 --> 01:13:58,130 I think this was an eyeopener. 1780 01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,150 You qualified 12th for the Michigan 500 IndyCar race. 1781 01:14:02,210 --> 01:14:04,639 That was the race where you lost the right front wheel. 1782 01:14:04,820 --> 01:14:07,610 But I think there was a lesson here about politics of the game. 1783 01:14:07,700 --> 01:14:09,559 You had a teammate by the name of Fit Polty. 1784 01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:15,530 Yeah, he's South America's biggest orange producer or family was 1785 01:14:15,769 --> 01:14:18,590 Okay, so two time world champion. 1786 01:14:18,830 --> 01:14:23,330 Nice enough guy, but he doesn't like to have somebody go faster than him. 1787 01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:24,650 You out qualified him, right? 1788 01:14:24,889 --> 01:14:25,340 Yeah. 1789 01:14:25,610 --> 01:14:26,960 And then you passed him in the race. 1790 01:14:26,995 --> 01:14:27,085 Yep. 1791 01:14:27,684 --> 01:14:28,465 And then what happened? 1792 01:14:28,735 --> 01:14:29,695 I got a call. 1793 01:14:29,785 --> 01:14:30,055 Yeah. 1794 01:14:30,085 --> 01:14:30,865 What'd the call say? 1795 01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:32,934 I said I need to let him go back by. 1796 01:14:33,355 --> 01:14:34,015 Why is that? 1797 01:14:34,224 --> 01:14:38,095 Because he's racing for points and I'm not, probably didn't sit real well. 1798 01:14:38,365 --> 01:14:38,724 No, 1799 01:14:43,285 --> 01:14:46,825 we come down the front stretch and I told him to go ahead. 1800 01:14:56,755 --> 01:14:58,015 You know what happened next? 1801 01:14:58,135 --> 01:14:59,605 No, please tell me. 1802 01:15:01,434 --> 01:15:04,615 My right front tire took a guy's windshield out in the parking lot. 1803 01:15:04,974 --> 01:15:06,295 Oh, that happened right after that? 1804 01:15:06,445 --> 01:15:06,745 Yeah. 1805 01:15:07,495 --> 01:15:10,974 So you were going roughly how fast when the right front came off. 1806 01:15:11,035 --> 01:15:12,955 Two 30 at the end of the back stretch. 1807 01:15:13,275 --> 01:15:14,505 And the right front comes off. 1808 01:15:14,625 --> 01:15:16,605 I'm sitting, I start to turn in the corner. 1809 01:15:16,605 --> 01:15:20,475 It's like I'm gaining toe and it, you can see that you're 1810 01:15:20,475 --> 01:15:22,485 processing all this in the IndyCar. 1811 01:15:22,485 --> 01:15:24,105 The front tires are right here. 1812 01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:24,890 Yeah. 1813 01:15:24,895 --> 01:15:25,125 Yeah. 1814 01:15:25,155 --> 01:15:25,515 Okay. 1815 01:15:25,785 --> 01:15:28,425 And it's like, oh man, this is my first race. 1816 01:15:28,425 --> 01:15:31,215 And when these things crash, they tear up people's feet. 1817 01:15:31,365 --> 01:15:34,095 I just figured it out and drove it to my pit stall. 1818 01:15:34,275 --> 01:15:35,025 Never crashed. 1819 01:15:35,145 --> 01:15:35,985 Never crashed. 1820 01:15:36,045 --> 01:15:37,665 That wasn't the last time that happened to you? 1821 01:15:37,785 --> 01:15:43,155 No, when I was back, there was 86 when it drove John Bertera's IndyCar. 1822 01:15:43,305 --> 01:15:44,415 Oh, I think it was 87. 1823 01:15:44,625 --> 01:15:45,555 87. Yep. 1824 01:15:45,630 --> 01:15:46,455 Yep, that's right. 1825 01:15:46,815 --> 01:15:47,595 Go to Indy. 1826 01:15:47,685 --> 01:15:50,385 And of, first I'm going down the front stretch and thing 1827 01:15:50,385 --> 01:15:51,945 starts gaining toe again. 1828 01:15:51,945 --> 01:15:53,385 I said, I've been here before. 1829 01:15:54,885 --> 01:15:55,395 Geez. 1830 01:15:56,365 --> 01:16:00,655 I kind of figured out, I just slowed down a little bit and um, the wheel came off. 1831 01:16:00,685 --> 01:16:03,505 So we were trying to get the rookie deal done. 1832 01:16:03,565 --> 01:16:04,675 You had the retest? 1833 01:16:04,735 --> 01:16:06,025 Yeah, it was a retest. 1834 01:16:06,055 --> 01:16:06,325 Okay. 1835 01:16:06,415 --> 01:16:09,715 You know, since I didn't get the race the other time. 1836 01:16:09,865 --> 01:16:12,985 So they come there, they wrap up the bottom of the car, gotta pick it up, gotta 1837 01:16:12,985 --> 01:16:17,185 take it, takes about 45 minutes to get the car back and they put another wheel on it 1838 01:16:17,185 --> 01:16:19,435 and try to tighten it up a little tighter. 1839 01:16:19,525 -->

01:16:21,865 And then we go back out, we're run it again, run again. 1840 01:16:22,015 --> 01:16:23,605 And it's like, whoa, here it. 1841 01:16:23,665 --> 01:16:24,955 Goes again. 1842 01:16:25,315 --> 01:16:28,435 Every time going into one, I don't know, it must be downhill or something. 1843 01:16:28,705 --> 01:16:33,445 So the second time that tire comes off, I jump out, leave the motor 1844 01:16:33,445 --> 01:16:36,625 running and go gather all the parts up. 1845 01:16:36,745 --> 01:16:40,195 Then they get over there and I sit here, just pick this up and put it on. 1846 01:16:40,195 --> 01:16:41,845 I'll drive it back to the pits. 1847 01:16:42,265 --> 01:16:45,685 It got, gets on the radio and No, no, I can't do that. 1848 01:16:45,745 --> 01:16:47,305 I said, here he can hold my helmet. 1849 01:16:47,305 --> 01:16:48,535 I'm just gonna go slow. 1850 01:16:48,625 --> 01:16:49,315 No, they won't. 1851 01:16:49,315 --> 01:16:50,365 They had to pick it up and do. 1852 01:16:50,455 --> 01:16:52,465 It's like we're burning up a lot of time. 1853 01:16:52,525 --> 01:16:57,085 You know, my IndyCar experience is probably had the most right front 1854 01:16:57,085 --> 01:16:59,785 tires fall off and never crash. 1855 01:16:59,875 --> 01:17:00,715 It's pretty amazing. 1856 01:17:00,894 --> 01:17:02,455 Yeah, pretty amazing. 1857 01:17:02,635 --> 01:17:03,655 What else was going on? 1858 01:17:03,655 --> 01:17:07,405 1985 you ran the Poco Do IndyCar race. 1859 01:17:07,405 --> 01:17:09,175 That coincided with the Knoxville National. 1860 01:17:09,175 --> 01:17:10,675 So you're flying back and forth. 1861 01:17:10,735 --> 01:17:13,915 86 Cliff Barkum puts together a bush car. 1862 01:17:14,005 --> 01:17:19,405 You ran 17th at Daytona, also in 86 Indie Lights, American Racing Series. 1863 01:17:19,435 --> 01:17:20,875 You were fifth on two occasions. 1864 01:17:20,935 --> 01:17:22,310 And again, folks keep in mind. 1865 01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:26,210 He's still running sprint cars during this time and, and doing so successfully. 1866 01:17:26,210 --> 01:17:27,590 There's just so much going on. 1867 01:17:27,770 --> 01:17:27,920 Yeah. 1868 01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,795 Well we need to back up Pocono with aj. 1869 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:31,610 AJ Ford. 1870 01:17:31,610 --> 01:17:31,880 Yeah. 1871 01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:32,540 Talk about that. 1872 01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:32,930 Yeah. 1873 01:17:32,930 --> 01:17:37,400 Well, I had a friend, Cecil Taylor from Kansas City and he, he was at, came 1874 01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:41,240 to a lot of races, sprint car races, stuff, but, uh, he was always with, aj 1875 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:45,110 did all his tires for years and he was always trying to get me in the car. 1876 01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:49,100 So it's like, come down and he says, Hey, uh, AG wants to talk to you. 1877 01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:50,240 It's like, oh, okay. 1878 01:17:50,870 --> 01:17:51,530 And I go down. 1879 01:17:51,530 --> 01:17:52,580 He

says, you wanna run the car? 1880 01:17:52,580 --> 01:17:53,210 I said, sure. 1881 01:17:53,570 --> 01:17:54,230 Just like that. 1882 01:17:54,290 --> 01:17:54,650 Yeah. 1883 01:17:54,830 --> 01:17:55,550 You wanna run the car? 1884 01:17:55,790 --> 01:17:56,180 Yeah. 1885 01:17:56,480 --> 01:17:57,530 But he says, you got a seat. 1886 01:17:57,530 --> 01:17:58,760 And I said, I don't run these cars. 1887 01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:02,060 I don't have a seat that'll fit in their, um, so what'd they do? 1888 01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,810 We just put towels or blankets, corporate blankets and stuff in 1889 01:18:05,810 --> 01:18:07,490 there and filled it up the past tech. 1890 01:18:07,725 --> 01:18:09,165 Well, nobody ever checked. 1891 01:18:09,255 --> 01:18:09,645 Okay? 1892 01:18:10,905 --> 01:18:13,245 He comes there and he tells me to pull the car out. 1893 01:18:13,245 --> 01:18:16,695 We get, I get situated in there, take it out, and he says, okay, we'll go 1894 01:18:16,695 --> 01:18:21,195 out here, run it in this gear, go this one, then go up to this gear and warm 1895 01:18:21,195 --> 01:18:23,115 this up, make a lap and come around. 1896 01:18:23,205 --> 01:18:25,815 And then when you come back around the next time, pick the 1897 01:18:25,815 --> 01:18:27,255 throttle up there in three. 1898 01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:30,810 We didn't have a radio or anything, so we'll have on the board for you. 1899 01:18:30,930 --> 01:18:34,320 He asked his guys, gimme a timing sheet and he says like, look, uh, when 1900 01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:38,250 you get to a two 10 average, we're gonna put you in the qualifying line. 1901 01:18:38,490 --> 01:18:41,670 So it was like, I made my slow lap, went around and made the lap. 1902 01:18:41,670 --> 01:18:44,550 When I come back around, it's in and it's like, well, what's going on? 1903 01:18:44,580 --> 01:18:45,780 They're waving you in at this point? 1904 01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:46,260 Yeah. 1905 01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:46,650 Okay. 1906 01:18:46,710 --> 01:18:47,460 After one lab? 1907 01:18:47,580 --> 01:18:48,330 Yeah, I guess so. 1908 01:18:48,335 --> 01:18:50,280 But you know, I had to come all the way around. 1909 01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:52,950 So then I, then I had to run the threequarter lab, pull 1910 01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:54,690 in and say, what's wrong? 1911 01:18:54,750 --> 01:18:56,220 Oh, you just run two 13? 1912 01:18:58,260 --> 01:19:00,390 Okay, we're gonna put you in the qualifying line. 1913 01:19:00,390 --> 01:19:03,390 Well, what's it's like, well just stay here and, and we'll get over there and 1914 01:19:03,390 --> 01:19:05,880 we get, you get back in and you go out. 1915 01:19:06,030 --> 01:19:10,350 And so I go out and make my two laps qualifying. 1916 01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,110 It comes in and he says, what do you think of the car? 1917 01:19:13,110 --> 01:19:14,430 I said, well, it's a little tight. 1918 01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:15,540 The front's pushing. 1919 01:19:15,540 --> 01:19:17,460 He said, well, my car's not. 1920 01:19:17,730 --> 01:19:19,315 And I said, well, look at me and look at you. 1921 01:19:21,660 --> 01:19:23,190 And we're sitting on the front tires. 1922 01:19:23,460 --> 01:19:24,464 You know right up front. 1923 01:19:24,464 --> 01:19:24,825 Yeah. 1924 01:19:24,825 --> 01:19:27,915 It says, oh yeah, yeah, that might make a difference. 1925 01:19:29,205 --> 01:19:31,214 Jesus says, you're ready for the race. 1926 01:19:31,275 --> 01:19:35,625 So it's like, I've got three laps and I start a 500 mile race. 1927 01:19:35,775 --> 01:19:39,224 They only have one pit crew that for both teams, so they gotta run back and forth. 1928 01:19:39,405 --> 01:19:42,255 Well, our first stop, I come in to get some fuel and they 1929 01:19:42,255 --> 01:19:43,125 couldn't get the nozzle. 1930 01:19:43,125 --> 01:19:45,045 They're messing, and they'd send me back out. 1931 01:19:45,045 --> 01:19:45,974 Well, they had to change it. 1932 01:19:46,065 --> 01:19:49,304 And then I come back in and they thought it was gonna run out, but 1933 01:19:49,365 --> 01:19:50,745 they didn't tell me till later. 1934 01:19:51,105 --> 01:19:54,224 I didn't have a radio, so I had to watch for the So you're running 1935 01:19:54,224 --> 01:19:55,485 the whole show without a radio? 1936 01:19:55,785 --> 01:19:56,085 Yep. 1937 01:19:56,264 --> 01:19:59,894 And we can only do hand signals for the pit, you know, whatever. 1938 01:19:59,894 --> 01:20:01,545 It's like I just gotta drive the car. 1939 01:20:01,545 --> 01:20:03,195 Whatever it is, it's what it is. 1940 01:20:03,315 --> 01:20:06,105 I'm just trying to stay outta trouble, go as fast as I can. 1941 01:20:06,105 --> 01:20:09,764 And I didn't know until after the race, but they said Goodyear was gonna make 'em 1942 01:20:09,764 --> 01:20:15,945 stop because they'd never run a set of tires 250 miles before the halfway point 1943 01:20:15,945 --> 01:20:17,955 that I was gonna have to put tires on. 1944 01:20:17,955 --> 01:20:20,295 So they had to go get another set of tires. 1945 01:20:20,435 --> 01:20:21,395 Mounted up. 1946 01:20:21,455 --> 01:20:21,605 Mm-hmm. 1947 01:20:22,115 --> 01:20:26,945 And so I ran half the race on one set and half the race on another. 1948 01:20:26,945 --> 01:20:32,015 Or the other guys are using TID sets every time they come in they put new tires on. 1949 01:20:32,105 --> 01:20:32,165 Yeah. 1950 01:20:32,375 --> 01:20:33,905 I talked with Rick Meers earlier. 1951 01:20:33,905 --> 01:20:36,215 I said, well, I got three laps in. 1952 01:20:36,215 --> 01:20:37,205 What am I gonna expect? 1953 01:20:37,205 --> 01:20:42,485 He said, well, the tires fall off after about 30 laps, so, so it's like 200 laps. 1954 01:20:42,485 --> 01:20:44,615 I'm still going on the same ones. 1955 01:20:45,335 --> 01:20:46,985 Floyd says, well, that's the best he's ever had. 1956 01:20:46,985 --> 01:20:51,515 Two cars finish in probably 30 years where he finished fourth and I

finished ninth. 1957 01:20:51,775 --> 01:20:52,585 That was an adventure. 1958 01:20:52,765 --> 01:20:57,355 Uh, you mentioned little John John ERO in 1987, qualifying for the Indy 1959 01:20:57,355 --> 01:21:03,595 500 qualified four laps at 2 0 1 0.84, and got bumped about 25 minutes 1960 01:21:03,595 --> 01:21:06,175 remaining in qualifying same year. 1961 01:21:06,295 --> 01:21:10,375 Ran an SCCA race at Memphis International Qualified six. 1962 01:21:10,375 --> 01:21:12,625 You were third coming off the final corner and there was 1963 01:21:12,625 --> 01:21:14,215 some sort of mechanical issue. 1964 01:21:14,365 --> 01:21:15,295 It just turned off. 1965 01:21:15,325 --> 01:21:15,925 Is that what it was? 1966 01:21:15,985 --> 01:21:16,135 Yeah. 1967 01:21:16,165 --> 01:21:17,755 Coasted, but it was uphill. 1968 01:21:18,085 --> 01:21:18,865 Oh. 1969 01:21:19,345 --> 01:21:19,975 A little bit. 1970 01:21:20,335 --> 01:21:24,145 Uh, but that was, that was cool to drive a road race car, TransAm car, 1971 01:21:24,445 --> 01:21:28,465 and to get in and like we practiced and, and when I stopped, the guys 1972 01:21:28,465 --> 01:21:29,875 were, we're in the fast five. 1973 01:21:29,875 --> 01:21:30,925 We're in the fast five. 1974 01:21:30,925 --> 01:21:32,095 And I said, what is that? 1975 01:21:34,015 --> 01:21:35,755 We get to race for the bull fastest. 1976 01:21:35,755 --> 01:21:36,655 Five cars. 1977 01:21:37,015 --> 01:21:38,215 Must been all right. 1978 01:21:38,275 --> 01:21:38,575 Yeah. 1979 01:21:38,845 --> 01:21:40,825 Never been in one making it happen. 1980 01:21:41,005 --> 01:21:42,355 91. You ran. 1981 01:21:42,385 --> 01:21:47,965 Uh, Dick Mosos Olds in the Daytona 590 3-year-old buddy Harold Annette 1982 01:21:47,965 --> 01:21:51,475 from, uh, Des Moines puts together a NASCAR Bush team ran Darlington, Dover 1983 01:21:51,475 --> 01:21:57,565 Milwaukee, and IRP 95 NASCAR Truck series with Channel lock five top fives. 1984 01:21:57,565 --> 01:21:59,394 Best finish a fourth at Bristol. 1985 01:21:59,635 --> 01:22:01,105 Another good outing at Bristol. 1986 01:22:01,225 --> 01:22:02,515 Yeah, should have won that one. 1987 01:22:02,605 --> 01:22:05,125 Didn't have a very good motor, but the car was great. 1988 01:22:05,370 --> 01:22:09,780 They hired a guy that tested a lot there, Roland Bka, and 1989 01:22:09,780 --> 01:22:11,070 he said, we'll be on a pole. 1990 01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,410 And it's like, okay, that's fine with me. 1991 01:22:13,679 --> 01:22:18,240 But we were second, but we didn't get any practice because the oil tank was leaking. 1992 01:22:18,330 --> 01:22:20,519 That was when you, everybody ran the bottom. 1993 01:22:20,519 --> 01:22:23,910 But if I could get five laps in, then the front cross member quit 1994 01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:25,559 hitting, hitting, going in the corner. 1995 01:22:25,650 --> 01:22:26,879 It would hit scoot up. 1996 01:22:27,089 --> 01:22:27,794 You know about a foot? 1997 01:22:27,794 --> 01:22:29,849 Is that tire pressure thing front? 1998 01:22:29,849 --> 01:22:29,860 Yeah. 1999 01:22:29,860 --> 01:22:29,870 Okay. 2000 01:22:29,870 --> 01:22:30,570 Yeah, some of it. 2001 01:22:30,570 --> 01:22:33,960 So we had whatever the few laps to go, well, I could just pull 2002 01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:35,339 away when we get to the traffic. 2003 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:36,509 I didn't know any better. 2004 01:22:36,750 --> 01:22:37,980 They all stayed on the bottom. 2005 01:22:37,980 --> 01:22:39,340 I just go around the outside of the. 2006 01:22:39,575 --> 01:22:43,505 The lap cars and we'd get so far ahead, but then they'd line us back 2007 01:22:43,505 --> 01:22:44,945 up to put the guy right behind you. 2008 01:22:45,065 --> 01:22:48,335 So going in the first corner, he just drove in there and nailed me. 2009 01:22:48,365 --> 01:22:49,925 Mm. So I slid up. 2010 01:22:50,075 --> 01:22:51,575 It was all cup guys ahead of me. 2011 01:22:51,755 --> 01:22:56,224 If I could have got through them first 2, 3, 4 laps, I was gone again because 2012 01:22:56,224 --> 01:22:58,355 I, I was running almost wide open. 2013 01:22:58,505 --> 01:23:00,184 If you were down on power, that would make sense. 2014 01:23:00,184 --> 01:23:01,054 You could do that. 2015 01:23:01,054 --> 01:23:01,355 Good. 2016 01:23:01,415 --> 01:23:01,684 Yeah. 2017 01:23:01,745 --> 01:23:02,014 Yeah. 2018 01:23:02,764 --> 01:23:03,875 I know we're getting toward the end. 2019 01:23:03,875 --> 01:23:07,985 'cause see, I wanna wrap up with, tell you what, two things here. 2020 01:23:08,045 --> 01:23:08,705 Another quote. 2021 01:23:08,915 --> 01:23:12,905 To be completely secure, you've got to be the one who controls the money. 2022 01:23:12,995 --> 01:23:13,894 That's what I'm talking about. 2023 01:23:14,045 --> 01:23:17,525 You know, the IndyCar thing with the fedal worked pretty hard. 2024 01:23:17,585 --> 01:23:21,365 First I started, went to Patrick's 'cause there's a lot of guys that worked on the 2025 01:23:21,365 --> 01:23:23,075 sprint cards and stuff that worked there. 2026 01:23:23,075 --> 01:23:26,405 So I, I got him to first talk to him and then let me come there and 2027 01:23:26,405 --> 01:23:29,885 just leave my trailer and we'd come work, do some work at the shop. 2028 01:23:29,945 --> 01:23:30,215 Yeah. 2029 01:23:30,275 --> 01:23:30,455 Okay. 2030 01:23:30,455 --> 01:23:32,554 While we were up that way, team man or come by. 2031 01:23:32,554 --> 01:23:35,014 So he, he'd let me go test sometime. 2032 01:23:35,014 --> 01:23:37,355 Well finally we, we run into that. 2033 01:23:37,355 --> 01:23:38,885 But it was too an odd way. 2034 01:23:39,475 --> 01:23:43,165 Their new car coming from England from March chassis company over there. 2035 01:23:43,315 --> 01:23:45,865 They were trying to get it flown in so they could test it. 2036 01:23:46,135 --> 01:23:51,805 Midland, Texas and Chicago was like all froze up or the airport was closed. 2037

01:23:51,805 --> 01:23:54,535 So he asked me, he said, you got a shop down there? 2038 01:23:54,745 --> 01:23:55,375 And I said, yeah. 2039 01:23:55,375 --> 01:23:57,595 I said, I got a nice shop, big shop. 2040 01:23:57,775 --> 01:24:02,215 And so they flew the car in down there, assembled it at my shop. 2041 01:24:02,335 --> 01:24:02,425 Mm-hmm. 2042 01:24:02,725 --> 01:24:05,185 Their new car and let me go out. 2043 01:24:05,275 --> 01:24:09,505 Emerson started running, ran laps in the old car to get a base 2044 01:24:09,505 --> 01:24:11,755 deal and then he ran the new one. 2045 01:24:11,875 --> 01:24:14,635 And then when he left, they let me drive the old one. 2046 01:24:14,695 --> 01:24:15,325 What happened? 2047 01:24:15,535 --> 01:24:16,735 Well, I guess I did all right. 2048 01:24:16,735 --> 01:24:18,535 'cause they asked me to come to another test. 2049 01:24:20,005 --> 01:24:22,735 I'd never been in an Indy car, never been on a road course. 2050 01:24:22,735 --> 01:24:24,535 Never been at that place. 2051 01:24:24,565 --> 01:24:24,805 Yep. 2052 01:24:24,985 --> 01:24:26,005 And I was only. 2053 01:24:26,090 --> 01:24:27,980 Four tenths off what he ran in it. 2054 01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:28,400 Yeah. 2055 01:24:28,550 --> 01:24:29,750 And so they let me go there. 2056 01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:33,830 We went to Phoenix and I think Poncho Carter drove the car. 2057 01:24:34,220 --> 01:24:39,920 I got in it the next day and went faster than him, just like it was right off Then. 2058 01:24:39,950 --> 01:24:43,279 One world outlaw race, said Aberdeen, South Dakota. 2059 01:24:43,460 --> 01:24:43,760 Okay. 2060 01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,750 Team manager calls me up, Hey, can you come to Michigan and test 2061 01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:50,960 Emerson's been here for four days and uh, they had another guy, 2062 01:24:51,020 --> 01:24:53,690 Bruno Elli or something like that. 2063 01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:54,050 Okay. 2064 01:24:54,230 --> 01:24:58,040 He'd never run on an hole and the bumps and you know, can you come here and run? 2065 01:24:58,655 --> 01:24:59,315 Said, sure. 2066 01:24:59,315 --> 01:25:01,025 Just figure out a way to get me there. 2067 01:25:01,115 --> 01:25:01,385 Go out. 2068 01:25:01,385 --> 01:25:03,845 The first time they said, well, Emerson did this. 2069 01:25:03,845 --> 01:25:05,165 You can run it wide open. 2070 01:25:05,165 --> 01:25:09,095 You can do, you know, we put more wing on it, it'll be a little slower, you know? 2071 01:25:09,095 --> 01:25:12,005 But then I wound up running in five laps. 2072 01:25:12,005 --> 01:25:12,185 What? 2073 01:25:12,185 --> 01:25:14,345 He ran in one with a less wing. 2074 01:25:14,435 --> 01:25:16,025 Then they started talking, what do you think? 2075 01:25:16,025 --> 01:25:16,445 What do you think? 2076 01:25:16,445 --> 01:25:19,625 I said, well, if I was at Eldora, I would do this, or I would 2077 01:25:19,895 --> 01:25:21,275 change the weight this way. 2078 01:25:21,275 --> 01:25:22,985 Or change this pressure and stuff. 2079 01:25:22,985 --> 01:25:27,005 And even with still with more wing on it, we went, kept going faster. 2080 01:25:27,035 --> 01:25:27,365 Yeah. 2081 01:25:27,515 --> 01:25:31,685 So then they decided they would invite me back for the race, but I didn't 2082 01:25:31,685 --> 01:25:32,975 know they weren't gonna let me win. 2083 01:25:33,035 --> 01:25:34,085 Yeah, yeah. 2084 01:25:34,115 --> 01:25:34,925 No fun there. 2085 01:25:35,645 --> 01:25:36,935 Your tires have to stay on. 2086 01:25:39,305 --> 01:25:39,605 Yeah. 2087 01:25:39,755 --> 01:25:40,415 I don't know, man. 2088 01:25:40,415 --> 01:25:42,365 I thought about that after I read that a couple times. 2089 01:25:42,365 --> 01:25:44,015 I'm like, that's just amazing. 2090 01:25:44,195 --> 01:25:47,165 Being able to bring that car back in one piece, and not only once, 2091 01:25:47,165 --> 01:25:48,605 but a handful of times there. 2092 01:25:48,605 --> 01:25:48,725 Yeah. 2093 01:25:48,845 --> 01:25:49,985 Later on down the road. 2094 01:25:50,325 --> 01:25:53,445 Well, Sammy, uh, we certainly appreciate you coming by today. 2095 01:25:53,595 --> 01:25:55,005 I'm really looking forward to this. 2096 01:25:55,065 --> 01:25:58,845 I tell you what, to close things out earlier today, we dedicated to Kevin 2097 01:25:58,845 --> 01:26:01,185 Gore Gallery, gore Family's here. 2098 01:26:01,305 --> 01:26:03,675 There was a nice display in there dedicated to Kevin. 2099 01:26:03,855 --> 01:26:05,655 You had an opportunity to race with Kevin. 2100 01:26:05,715 --> 01:26:08,625 We lost him September 24th, 1999. 2101 01:26:08,745 --> 01:26:10,575 You ended up sweeping that weekend. 2102 01:26:10,815 --> 01:26:13,395 I think you provided a very nice tribute to him. 2103 01:26:13,395 --> 01:26:16,695 If I understand correctly, in Victory Lane on the, the second 2104 01:26:16,695 --> 01:26:20,055 night of the program, if you would, a couple remembrances of Kevin Gore. 2105 01:26:20,625 --> 01:26:22,185 Never had a problem racing with him. 2106 01:26:22,185 --> 01:26:26,655 Never had any problems and we always had some good talks the few that we had. 2107 01:26:26,715 --> 01:26:30,525 This is just a shame things happen, but sometimes things happen for a reason. 2108 01:26:30,645 --> 01:26:32,955 I think maybe the common ground for the two of you would be 2109 01:26:32,985 --> 01:26:34,725 the passion and the work ethic. 2110 01:26:34,815 --> 01:26:38,445 It, it seemed we were kind of the same, but I wasn't around him a lot. 2111 01:26:38,445 --> 01:26:38,685 Sure. 2112 01:26:38,685 --> 01:26:42,375 To really, really knowing him that that well, but kind of a lot on the same page. 2113 01:26:42,375 --> 01:26:43,695 Same deal, same thing. 2114 01:26:43,815 --> 01:26:45,675 You know, we could have got along for a long time. 2115 01:26:45,795 --> 01:26:46,065 Yeah. 2116 01:26:46,215 --> 01:26:48,135 Well, I appreciate the thoughts. 2117 01:26:48,150 -->

01:26:50,940 Victory lane's that second night of the program. 2118 01:26:51,059 --> 01:26:52,500 Did you put a special hat on that night? 2119 01:26:52,589 --> 01:26:55,514 I think somebody said you may have dawned an amaco cap in Victory Lane. 2120 01:26:55,514 --> 01:26:56,250 Does that sound right? 2121 01:26:56,304 --> 01:26:56,594 Yeah. 2122 01:26:56,599 --> 01:26:56,790 Yeah. 2123 01:26:56,879 --> 01:26:57,509 Nice tribute. 2124 01:26:57,719 --> 01:27:00,240 And then, uh, Sammy, I know you've got to get up the road here 2125 01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,210 soon, but you got time to sign some autographs Oh, and whatnot. 2126 01:27:03,480 --> 01:27:03,660 Yeah. 2127 01:27:03,660 --> 01:27:03,719 Yeah. 2128 01:27:08,759 --> 01:27:12,660 We hope you enjoyed this journey through racing history and the personal stories 2129 01:27:12,660 --> 01:27:14,820 that keep the spirit of motorsports alive. 2130 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:18,900 The Eastern Museum of Motor Racing is a premier destination for motor 2131 01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:22,679 racing enthusiasts, showcasing a vast collection of historic racing 2132 01:27:22,679 --> 01:27:24,960 cars, artifacts, and memorabilia. 2133 01:27:25,410 --> 01:27:29,879 To learn more about the EMMR or to be a part of the next in-person racers 2134 01:27:29,879 --> 01:27:33,780 round table, you can plan your visit or support the museum's mission to 2135 01:27:33,780 --> 01:27:40,679 preserve and celebrate the legacy of racing by heading to www dotr.org. 2136 01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,980 Follow them on social media for the latest news, upcoming 2137 01:27:43,980 --> 01:27:45,750 events, and exclusive content. 2138 01:27:46,290 --> 01:27:49,830 Until next time, keep the engines running and the memories alive. 2139 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:57,090 This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part 2140 01:27:57,090 --> 01:27:58,680 of our Motoring Podcast network. 2141 01:27:58,890 --> 01:28:02,730 For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational 2142 01:28:02,730 --> 01:28:06,420 content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring 2143 01:28:06,420 --> 01:28:08,880 Historian, break Fix, and many others. 2144 01:28:08,970 --> 01:28:11,490 If you'd like to support Grand Tour Motorsports and the Motoring 2145 01:28:11,490 --> 01:28:15,300 Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at 2146 01:28:15,300 --> 01:28:19,740 www.patreon.com/gt motorsports. 2147 01:28:20,100 --> 01:28:22,860 Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and 2148 01:28:22,890 --> 01:28:26,370 expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has 2149 01:28:26,370 --> 01:28:27,900 been published with their consent. 2150 01:28:28,050 --> 01:28:31,560 If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators 2151 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,640 of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the episode.