บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Episode 1 - Container Homes Are Revolutionizing Sustainable Living

is Etienne van Hursten. I'm an entrepreneur now for probably all my whole life, 30 years. I'm 59 years old. I started my career in construction, in facade buildings and from that time on I was always busy with searching for systems. And in my whole life that I worked for other entrepreneurs but myself It was always itching. I thought I could do it also on my own. So for about 20 years ago, I started with my own bureau. This is project managing management. And I also build for people, private people, traditional homes. Because then at that time it was not really In common that you would build Otherwise than traditional But it always Stayed in my head. So like 15 years ago about 2005 Lars Janowski: Hmm. Etienne: I thought it was time to make a change in building constructions and I got related to a German company that is called Containerwerk and they had innovative ways of insulating former shipping containers. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: And I took a visit there and I got also around there in the factory and I saw actually how they insulated their container shipings and their containers. And this is always something that stayed in my mind. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: I wasn't looking for a factory with a lot of people to make sure I could also do this specific way of insulation because you need a really big plant for that. I didn't want that. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: I started to create a small factory of my own to develop, to make progress in the total development of living, durable living in a formal shipping container. This is something that they... Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: for the government, they do this for students and for refugees. But this is something for the new future to live in a cube. And what is very interesting of that is when I could only engineer, modify and insulate these boxes, then other people Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. Etienne: private people mostly with two right hands, they could easily do their after building because that is the discipline that takes a lot of money normally and to make it cheap, to make living cheaper, you could say when I do all the construction, Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: so that it's permitted to locate a building. People can do always the after works, the after disciplines like a carpeting, like painting, Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Etienne: This is nothing constructional, so the government wouldn't have any problem with that. And you as consumer, you can do it in your own time, in your own rhythm. And you could do it because it's modified. You could do it now and some parts in the future. You can always add. This is what was very important for me. And so to make sure Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. Etienne: that everything I say is also correctly, physically correctly. I started to make my own house and make sure with every test that also every discipline that I would recommend is also durable. Lars Janowski: So at what point, hmm, when, well, come

to happy building in a minute, I love the name. So at what point did you, did you look at a shipping container and say, or made the decision to say, well, that's a good basis. That's something, that's something I can start building something with. Etienne: So this is how Happy Building started. A container and I was already interested in the time that I got familiar with these German manufacturers. A shipping container is not only a worldwide transport box. Constructly it's better than every building. You can easily staple several shipping containers on another. So I would say six, seven storages are doable. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: before the on the zero ground, the first one will collapse. So they are extremely structural, good based. They are. on roads, on sea, on train there are transportals. So transport is actually no issue if you keep your corner castings available. This was something that was really important not over Lars Janowski: Corrective. Etienne: cladding the total keep your four corner postings keep them always inside to connect with other boxes or to just do vertical transports like you also see in a harper this was very important that this box was engineered this way Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: that it easily could be taken as a basic box to do some prefabrication. And for the environment... Lars Janowski: Maybe for those listeners, you mentioned ContainerVec, ContainerVec One. I know the guys, it's Nico Sauerland and his partners and his team. If you go on the internet, they're rather successful now with their brand Tin Inn, which is the hotel that being built from Etienne: Yeah. Lars Janowski: 40 foot containers and they've been doing really really well which is what you refer to the insulation in their factory. I think they started out looking at how can they sort of scale turning shipping containers into modular homes in the way you're saying this. What's fascinating about them and I'm just saying this for the listeners, the guys have a little robot that does the inside insulation. So everything is of specked out. It's planned where the windows go, where the doors go, and then they start insulating with spray foam. So just as an input. So Happy Building 3.0, was there, is that currently your company name? I know you have the website, Happy Building. Etienne: Yes. Yeah. Yes, this is also my company name. This is also my brand. So happy building stands for happiness. my slogan is always happiness starts here right now. So people who are interested in building otherwise. I'm sure they will be happy from day one. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Hmm. Etienne: to the day that they will enter their living space. As you also mentioned with Container War, Container War was the basis. For me, it was very important because you mentioned it, they have a robot, so it took a lot of investment. Lars Janowski: I'll you. Etienne: to create the possibility to make the insulation work well. I said how can I do this by hand? so the idea of insulating on the inside was familiar and I was not confused but I was sure that this would be Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: right way for insulating a box because everyone says Insulation needs to be done on the outside Physically But you can do it also on the inside if you know what you are doing they have a robot I Said when I take some materials like for example a rigid foam plate when I use materials that you can buy in every store. And what if you do if you can insulate by hand? Only big problem by hand is that you don't need any robot to do your Lars Janowski: What do mean by hand? Of course, yeah, sure. Etienne: to do exactly the same result, creating the same result as for example ContainerWag does because ContainerWag is a firm that made a lot of investment from 2017. They are still very young, but... Nowadays they mainly only do insulation for the whole world. This is a part of the total and this is their business model, insulating. And my model is actually to make sure that people can start from a formal shipping container. with its own quality to a livable house. Lars Janowski: So let me ask you, what's your preference? So we do insulation, mainly inside as well. And you know, there is like, let's say there's three, four ways of doing it. Yes, one way is, know, you use inside cladding with rock wool, or you do spray foam. The other ones is the styrofoam insofaster. So what's your preference? Because every time you speak to someone, you get... You know, you get the either or it's like golf or tennis or Mercedes or BMW. I'm, not in any of the camps. I think it depends a little bit on, the situation, obviously on the investment. spray foam is, is, slightly more expensive than, you put rock wall inside, any, any insulation you do in a house, but what's, what's your, where do you come from? Etienne: I'm now doing a combination of rigid foam like Pyrr because Pyrr is not so vulnerable of moisture as for example rock wool or an EPS material but like the Americans do and say closed cell foam, spray foam Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: is actually the best for condensation and condensation is the big problem in a container with a temperature fall. What I now do is I put on the rigid pair or XPS foam. I glue it Lars Janowski: Yeah, absolutely. Etienne: to the inside of the corrugation steel plate and then you have canals left. These are the tops of the trapezium form steel plate of the corrugation. These canals have to be also filled out. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Etienne: So I'm not spray foaming because spray foaming gives a not a fine surface for putting later on the rigid foam. But I inject, I inject the closed cell foam into these candles. And we are, have tested that. And then what you actually get is a good insulation that is completely completely filled out and there's no possibility of air draft or something so also no problem with condensation. This is how we insulate the inner side and it's not

everything because when we have done this and you have your barrier Lars Janowski: . Etienne: with the aluminum layer that is on the beer. When you have your barrier, then we put another wall in front of it. And this one is actually made out of metal steel framing. and mineral wool so like rock wool because for the sound barrier this is actually the best insulation so we have like 40-50 millimeters of rock wool and then after that onto the steel plate we have also like 80 plus Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: four centimeters of spray foam. This is package of... Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. It's a rather thick wall. So one argument is that people on that side say, well, you're losing quite a lot of room to make it. Etienne: Yeah, that's true. But if you put two against each other, then there's no problem in the inner space. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Yeah. So how about the outside? Because I've seen you on LinkedIn sharing a lot of insights on outside insulation and then adding a facade. And you're doing what I would describe as, is that correct, pull tests, Newton meter tests, or for the... Etienne: Yeah. I do also pull tests but I do pull tests on when people say I want a brick so I take brick slips I'm not using a 10 centimeter thick brick Lars Janowski: Mm. No, not a full one, yeah. Etienne: but we do brick slips and these are glued on a mount plate but you can also say I do wood or you could do plaster work I call these sorts of exterior cladding I call these ferrions it doesn't matter what you use Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm? Etienne: It's what you want to pay for it. It's what the government asks you to do. But it has nothing to do with insulation because everything is on the inside. So if people say like in Belgium, for example, they say, we like steel. Then it it's steels, as I call it, a naked body. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Sure, yeah. I mean, you get a lot of requests where people say, look, I like to take the box for the actual shipping container. But in the end, they don't like the look of it. It's too industrial or people will say, well, you live in a metal box or something and this is where you come in. can essentially provide any facade or you can apply any facade. And that's the same thing we tell our clients as well, our customers that there's no... Etienne: Yes. Lars Janowski: There's absolutely no limit on what you can do and what you cannot do. You can leave it as it is. It's exposed. It's coroutine steel. there's no rust. I mean, there's rust, but it takes 100 years to essentially get through. Etienne: Yes. And what also is important, the cladding doesn't have to be watertight. It can also be ventilated because a container is already watertight of its own. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Absolutely, Absolutely. What's your view on... There's two ways. You have the ventilation holes that come with the container, so top left and top right. So you would... You prefer to close them. Etienne: We close them up. We close them up, but what

we always say, there's insulation, good insulation is one thing, but ventilation is another thing. So every unit... that is livable on the inside should go together with a climate closet as we call it. It has an airco on it. It has a heater on it and it has a ventilation box in it. So these three things, we put them in one box. It's connected to the outside and for power, Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm. Hmm? Etienne: It's less than one and half kilowatt hours in an hour. Lars Janowski: Yes. Etienne: So that's nothing. Lars Janowski: Absolutely not. look, I've been, you've been posting a lot on a, happy building, the renders you're publishing at the moment of a house that is destined for, I think the South or Andalusia or somewhere. And we've been talking about this before. Tell us a little bit more about that project. Etienne: Hmm. As you know I'm from the Netherlands and our Dutch government I say as an entrepreneur is too slow in their laws. You might agree with me. So I thought when I'm having a really good solution for the individuals, for the people. And the government is the traffic light that says this is red. We don't allow it. Then you go to other countries. And this is why I came to Spain. We like to go to Spain. And I thought... Lars Janowski: Hmm. Hmm. Etienne: We have lot of nowadays immigrated people from Dutch and German and Belgian and English nationality. They all go to the warmer climates. But they... It's in our culture. We are, as I always say, we are like 30 years ahead of the people in the South when it comes to technical things. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Construction you mean, yes, okay. Etienne: Yeah, so I am not dreaming that I would sell something like our product to a Spanish guy because they don't know how valuable it is to go on power. So installation... What's insulation? We don't have a problem with that. So I won't pay for that. But on the other hand, we like the north western people of Europe, we know how expensive energy can be in the future. I'm noticing that the Lars Janowski: Absolutely. Etienne: Dutch, English, German and Belgian people that were immigrated to like for example Spain. They start their living there in sort of B &B constructions. They buy a Finca with a lot of land and think, okay, I can rent some rooms to holiday people. And they immediately notice that this is not enough for living. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: there. So they want to expand and I said okay we can expand because with my container homes we can transport. You can also look for good constructors in the neighborhood. We have the right Lars Janowski: Hmm. Etienne: development of insulation and energy, whether it's off-grid or whatever, I can put a container home and in about a week you can start to make some rent money out of it. And these people, these entrepreneurs abroad are very, very interested and they are familiar with Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: the local governments so it's more easy for them to get a permit. This is why I said okay I'm a Dutch guy but I start my development in the Netherlands so engineering developing is something for us in the north but we deliver in the south. Lars Janowski: Absolutely. You mentioned, that's how you started, yes. Tell me, you do have on your website, obviously a bit of research, you have a range of products. So home cubes, cube complex, call pool cubes, I'm assuming these are pools, roof cubes, tegas, and then you have art cube, which is the one I'm referring to now. Etienne: That's how it stopped. Lars Janowski: Tell me a little bit about the configurations. What's the idea behind the different systems? Etienne: As we started to develop the R-Cube, we said to each other This is also a working space for small business people. This could be also a sporting space. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Etienne: like outdoor sports, have a small container that you easily could close up and you easily could put out all the gear to make sure that the group has everything to sport with. For events, like you said, a pool cube, a half container could be Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: fixed as a swimming pool and it has nothing to do with measurements because when you for example when you take a a jet stream you can easily swim on on place so you don't need a big swimming pool you don't need a big garden to create a swimming pool in your in your backyard so so you can you can do everything Lars Janowski: Of course, That is correct. there's tiny benefit in that as well. if it is an above ground pool, you don't need the permission, or at least not in all countries. So if you put it above ground, which you can do with a container pool. We've built pools in the past, but we did this for brand and pop-up brand activations. Etienne: Yeah. Lars Janowski: where we build a 40 or cut down a 40 foot container by well principally by half and put some windows or glass on the side so you could see people swimming and so on. And yeah, but there are a couple of companies out there, they started doing this. But you mentioned earlier that one of your homes can be standing in days or weeks and obviously I'm with you because we've got, you know. Etienne: Give me that! Lars Janowski: you do 80%, 85 % of pre-production in the factory and then essentially you deliver it like a fridge and you connect it. But that's obviously super wild if you compare this with traditional build times. So how, if you talk through one of your projects, how, if you had a call today from a customer saying, I want one in the south of Spain, how, well, what's sort of your turnaround you'd say? Etienne: As I started to publish what we can do, I also took notice of what's the term. Suppose somebody comes and says I want to have this or this. I don't have to call any amounts, but they make an order. then I on my own, I would have to say, oh, this would be taking for perhaps for a year. No, I searched for alliances. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: They exactly know how I think they are into that business.

And I could easily take the order out to another firm. And I have two firms in Germany. I have one in Poland. I have one in Belgium. I'm starting to do one in Spain, but Spain is... Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: What I already said is another story because they are not so familiar with colder climate zones. so they have no value yet on insulation. Lars Janowski: Sure, yeah. Etienne: And this is very important for us that we can not only deliver products to warmer countries, but also to colder countries with the same discipline. Lars Janowski: Absolutely, You describe the container homes as off-grid capable, or said somewhere, nearly energy neutral. What does that look like in practice? Are we talking solar and heat pumps, rainwater connection? How far off-grid can you actually go? Etienne: For power we take solar power from the sun. A 20 foot container can easily contain five solar panels on the roof. The R-Cube that I'm developing are two containers. So I have 10 solar panels on the roof and I can produce in a power amount of approximately like 18 kilowatts per day. This would be enough with a good installation. So I have... Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Okay. Etienne: actually almost no loss of heat from the inside to the outside. The power that I'm producing is enough to make sure that two persons in that container can easily do 24 hours. Like cooking, like showering. playing with their phones or laptops or whatever. Also a possible jacuzzi. When it comes to water, a connection with water, we have a alliance with a firm called AWG. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: they generate like 250 liters of water out of the atmosphere. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: Of course it needs minerals. Of course it needs to go through a ultraviolet source to make it drinkable. But it is healthier than the normal water that we tap. We can do this by generators that are like one and a half cubic meters in volume. Of course, they stay outside. They are not noisy, but can deliver us the needable amount of water also for showering. The only thing that we cannot provide is sewer. Lars Janowski: Mm. Mm-hmm. Join it Jim. Etienne: When we take, when we have permission to build in underground, to build in a sewer tank, then there's absolutely no problem and I can stay with my cube in the middle of nowhere. This is what we developed. Lars Janowski: And what about nights then? I get the day, the solar, 18kW, but you'd use battery storage? Etienne: Battery, battery supply. Yeah, so there's always needed battery storage. So during the day, we fill up a 10 kilowatts battery so that it can provide us for power over 24 hours. I don't say. Lars Janowski: Understood. Etienne: I don't say that when people would go into permanent in a home like this other than a holiday home, for example, for short stay and also in Spain it becomes winter. Okay, we have daylight. So the solar panels always make sure that you have power. But do you have enough power? Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: When you have these sorts of things, you need some extra supply from the infrastructure that is possible, that would be possible to connect there. But short stay, it's not necessary. And short stay, I mean like a long weekend. Lars Janowski: No. Interesting. So after 30 years in what I would call traditional construction, you seen how resistant the industry could be to change? has there been, you come across sort of what's the biggest pushback you see? You've mentioned regulation, of course we know Germany, people. Etienne: People. Yeah, people with knowledge. This is the main problem why traditional constructors say, this is nothing. Lars Janowski: As in, as in, as in it's nothing, why, what do mean? Etienne: date. They like, I say it wrong, like they need to stay fixed on their traditional work to earn their living. When they give in and they would say, okay, now we do it like this, then they will all fall. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: because the time that is needed to make a specialist of this modular building, this time is too long. That's also our problem when we have I also see pictures of you and your firm. You do this already a very long time and you do this with several more people. You are mainly manufacturing for events. would say Germany is like 18 times bigger. then Holland, then the Netherlands. so... Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: it's more possible for you to make sure that you could sell enough of your event products. Here in the Netherlands, we have a few big constructors and they are the rulers and they are mainly traditional. So I would say it takes a long while. to make sure that younger people who are more open-minded for these sorts of forms, because it's also necessary, it takes, I think, still several years to make a breakthrough here in Netherlands. So if you have a good plan, like for example ContainerWack had, and you would do this in the Netherlands, And I know these people, they all fall. They all fall. They have good plans. They are not. They have lots of people needed to build their products like a constructor. He has also people needed for construction. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: So this wouldn't be different with modular buildings but because we can't go with the flow we are constantly worked against us. How you say that in English? They constantly work against us. Lars Janowski: You mean, yes, regulations? Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of course, Yeah. Etienne: And if there's no go through also for government, because they only listen to the big constructors. If there's no go through, then we won't survive. So that is why I said I rather do development and make a good story. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: to make people more open-minded for these things that will come in the future because I'm very sure traditional buildings are done. Lars Janowski: Hmm. I'll agree with you there. is maybe not done in a way, but, you know, we have a European or global housing crisis, but Europe, let's stay

in Europe for a moment. And, and, we have a huge housing shortage. And on the other hand, we have on the traditional build times, not just times, but the investment necessary to build any of those. They, make them rather expensive. So obviously on the modular side of things, you can, you build more efficiently and, and effectively. So. two things quicker and cheaper on scale. And you'll see in the market, the market is it's booming. So we have lots of little players across Europe, have Eastern Europe is full of anything from steel frame construction, wooden frame construction. Everyone, know, 70, 50 %... No, it's happening. And I think you're right. Etienne: Yeah, I know, I know, I know. It's not stoppable anymore. Lars Janowski: One is regulations and we Germans are really good at regulating a hell of a of things and sounds like the Dutch government is very similar and I mean you have it across Europe. mean the Spaniards have similar regulations, mean there are European driven regulations etc. and it doesn't make it easier but things are changing. think one of the Etienne: the same. Lars Janowski: big things I've noticed is even, you know, not everyone can come and, you know, hand over the cash to a modular build. So a lot of people will need to finance their build, whether that is modular or traditional. Now, a modular build is essentially seen as a removable box. Yes, we have this, right? We have this, and I don't know how you say in Dutch. Etienne: Yeah, that's a big problem. Lars Janowski: but in Germany it's immobile and so the house is not mobile. And with that it comes, you you have the ground rights, you have to buy your plot and the plot and the house is indefinitely linked to each other. You have the certificate for the plot, you will have to have this to build a house on it, mean, obviously building regulations and all that stuff. If you put a box on it, it's essentially currently, and I'm not talking about the regulators, I'm talking actually about the banks. Etienne: Yeah, he will be there. Yeah, yeah. Lars Janowski: So the banks won't be able to finance this in the same way as they do with the traditional bill because it's not fixed. Which on the other side, if you think of it, we could now start leasing plots and say, I'll have that plot for 50 years and Germany has a lot of church ownership, there are these 99-year leases on specific land, pretty much in every country like this. Etienne: Yeah, the finance, yeah. Lars Janowski: essentially say well i don't really needed for thirty years because then i get all them retired and then i give hand over the house to my kids and they might want to live down somewhere in switzerland so you load the whole thing up on a on a trailer and and off you go right and then release the spot which is a benefit right you kids it's all reusable which is a huge huge benefit do you think when you speak to Etienne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lars Janowski: clients of yours or people who are interested in building

with you or ordering a house. What's their biggest concerns? I mean, I don't want to preempt this. I've got people coming to us and obviously there are concerns. What do you hear from them? Etienne: They are mostly sceptic. Sceptic in the way we do things, but more sceptic and more scared about what banks or governments will tell them. Lars Janowski: Hmm, hmm, hmm. Etienne: So it's not the consumer that says, okay, I don't want to live in a modular house. A customer looks at the costs and he sees several benefits, not only in creating the building, but also what are the costs, the monthly costs on, for example, energy. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: almost as expensive as a mortgage and is still rising rising rising and banks i talked to bank managers and they say we would like to finance these sorts of plans but we are limited limited by government we can't Lars Janowski: Absolutely, Mm-hmm. Etienne: finance for example, movable homes. You know how it was on water as people said I want to have a living boat. There were and I speak about approximately 15-20 years ago but also at that time there were Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Etienne: actually almost no banks that would finance a living boat because it was also movable and this is a very big problem that concerns most customers Lars Janowski: No, absolutely not. And you'd have a lot, thinking of Amsterdam, know, there's the barges, traditional, I know, from London houseboats. Etienne: When our government would change this regulation, that it skips the definition of movable home, I think the market was open. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So on that one, what would you think is if container housing or modular homes, how it is perceived and regulated in Europe at the moment, if there was anything you could change about this, what would be the first one you would change? Etienne: dysregulation. Lars Janowski: So the building regulation to ensure that it can be financed, right? Etienne: Because now... Yeah! Exactly. It should be, it has to be financed for like a regular mortgage for 30 years. And if not, then there will be no customer that says I want to buy your product. Because they are. Yeah. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I'm with you on that one. It's a big risk to take for customers and we do get a lot of requests for container homes. Mainly the idea of off-grid or somebody has a lake property or at least a plot with the container manufacturers in the east of Berlin, in Brandenburg. Etienne: Mm. Lars Janowski: you do still have from the old times, these lake properties or plots where, people bought them 20, 30 years ago. Um, I don't think you can afford one, uh, like the commoner, um, getting one of these plots, but we do get requests of people who own those. And they said that they'd love to have a, you know, a container style home, um, next to the lake, which is, I mean, me personally, I mean, that's why I'm running the, this podcast and. Etienne: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lars Janowski: We

live containers. Our building, our workshop is built from containers and it has a studio apartment up in the top, which is, you know, it's all, and it's incredible. And I do like the outside design of containers as well. Obviously you got to, you know, paint them up a little bit and make them look good. I don't personally like to work with old ones. Yeah. Yeah. But then like you do, can, you you Etienne: Mmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a taste, that's a taste, that's no problem, that's a taste. Lars Janowski: put any facade on it. It's plenty of options there. Did you say you had your own house built from containers or did I misunderstand that at the beginning? Etienne: No, no, no, not not my own, but but but I'm now working on my own home building for Spain. This is my second home for Spain. I have a very small dream loss and that is what if I could Lars Janowski: Hmm. Okay, alright. Mm-hmm. Etienne: Create a small community. Lars Janowski: Hmm? Etienne: for let's say the older people that are now selling their homes and because and with their leftover money they buy a second home like a holiday home in a abroad country Lars Janowski: Hmm. Etienne: What if I could create a small community but it also could be in the Netherlands? You could call it nursing homes. People who live small Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Etienne: who sell their houses to younger people with children that actually need homes. They go a little bit smaller, compact and take care for each other. And there's of course also professional help if this is needed. This is my dream that I would create and if it's a holiday place. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Etienne: or a structural place in the Netherlands, it doesn't matter. But a small community, let's say like five, six really good nursing homes where two senior people can live their life. Lars Janowski: On the smaller square meter. Etienne: This was always my dream to create this and I'm now building this for our own. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Etienne: as a holiday home to let people but also let responsible constructors of the government of city hall to let them see what we are building. So I'm not showing them a fully mounted picture. No, I'm showing them the technical part. How is the installation done? Lars Janowski: Hmm? Hmm. Etienne: How we do it with ventilation because what's in it only the customer likes What floor you take or what wall you take or or which kitchen you take? This is for me not interesting the people Lars Janowski: Hmm? Etienne: who have to think about this, who have to become open-minded are actually the government people. They have to make sure that the traffic light goes from red to green. And then... Lars Janowski: Hmm to agree. Tell me, me, tell me a bit. Um, you've mentioned the house in Spain and I've, I've seen, obviously this is a, is a, is a mostly podcast verbal recording. we will put some links in the description to your website, et cetera. But I've seen the, renders of your, um, the, happy building, uh, which you, which you're about to build in Spain. Etienne: Stage VIII. Lars Janowski: Can you give us a little bit of a visual description, so if somebody listens to this, how does it look, how did you build it, how big is it, what does it look like? Etienne: First of all as a naked body it looks like two formal shipping containers in the right color that are built together. If you want a particular roof on it you can get a particular roof that's no problem because I that like cladding also a Sorry, it has. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Yeah. No, I was more thinking of yours, like your little dream house. Not what I can order, but what you're building for Spain. Etienne: I'm building that one. My renders are exactly the Holiday Cube I'm building for my own. It has big windows in it. It has a good climate installation in it. It looks actually like a very good hotel boutique. Lars Janowski: Hmm? Hmm? Etienne: a sleeping room for two persons with a good bed, a good shower with a full option kitchen in it. These are the main things that are necessary. It has a porch on it on the front. So because Spain is outdoor living, so you can take a fold glass wall. You can put it all open and you have Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hehehe. Etienne: You are open with the nature. You have a porch in front of it, like four and a half meters wide. You have sunscreen above it. You have two lying beds and you can enjoy the whole environment. my view is actually a panoramic view to see the sea and some mountains. This is what is actually holiday for me. Lars Janowski: Mm-hmm. Hmm. It sounds really, really good. Hytien, thank you so, so much. It's been a genuinely fascinating conversation with you. I love the, as I said, I've seen the renders. I love what you built and also the inside in terms of the insulation. I love the philosophy, know, standardize the structure and then you can vary everything else you build inside when outside, whatever you like. And I think I've learned now it's a simple idea and we're both sort of on the same ship here, but it's hard to execute in a very regulatory environment. But you've already sort of cracked a lot of the solutions for that. And I wish you all the best for the Spain development. That sounds really, really interesting. Have you got times already and when you're, what's your time plan for that? Etienne: Thank you very much. Well, we already agreed with a BNB entrepreneur in the south of Spain. He would like to have my module as a demonstration cube. He has the land for it. So what we now agreed is that spring next year, my cube will go over there and he will start his agency with the cube. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Mm-hmm. super. Etienne: for the coming two years to make more B &B owners enthusiastic about this prototype. It's actually like the Tesla car has begun. It's actually the same. Lars Janowski: Hmm. Yes, well I wish you judging by the news that was rather successful what Mr. Musk has been doing is he's just entered the trillionaires club which is a club of one at the moment as far as I understand it. But yes, so for anyone who wants to learn more about Etienne and happy building there is obviously a in the website description etc. Etienne: I think. Lars Janowski: in the description of the podcast, but it's happybuilding.nl. That's correct. But I'll link everything in the show notes. Fantastic. And yeah, so if you're considering Container Home, we've sort of focused more on, as you said, Etienne, on the event and branding part of Container. So if you are interested in Container Homes, there's Etienne to be contacted. As I said, I'll leave all the details in the show notes. Etienne: Yes. www.happybuilding.nl. Lars Janowski: Etienne, thank you so much for coming on the show. Etienne: I thank you, Lars.