บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #63 Why Clients Ghost Your Proposals (And How to Fix It) with Jamie Brindle

00:04:38.149 --> 00:04:39.899 Choose what they thought they wanted. 00:04:41.125 --> 00:04:42.168 Go with their gut yeah. 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:44.021 Yeah, Don't go with their gut. 00:04:44.021 --> 00:04:46.483 So I do the proposal, my proposals. 00:04:46.483 --> 00:04:50.005 This is the part that takes a little bit of extra time. 00:04:50.005 --> 00:04:52.767 I never spend more than half an hour putting that proposal together. 00:04:52.767 --> 00:04:56.471 And it's laid out, it's pretty, it's in their branding colors. 00:04:56.471 --> 00:05:02.134 If it's a project, that's more than a certain dollar amount because effort scales with money, right, Jamie? 00:05:02.134 --> 00:05:14.413 And then I record a quick walkthrough of that proposal on a Loom video and I include the link to that in the email I send them at the top of the proposal. 00:05:14.413 --> 00:05:25.507 And then I have already, on my discovery call, scheduled a call with them to go over the proposal in person and answer any questions they have. 00:05:25.507 --> 00:05:32.440 And then the proposal has an expiration date seven days, 14 days, whatever they thought it would take to get approvals. 00:05:32.440 --> 00:05:37.512 If they go past that date, we reevaluate pricing, we reevaluate availability. 00:05:37.512 --> 00:05:44.160 I do not hold space in my schedule until they have signed off on the proposal agreed to the contract. 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.865 So all of the agreements are in place and I've received my deposit. 00:05:48.286 --> 00:05:59.867 When you put those deadlines in place and stack them up, your clients are going to respond faster and you have a process then that led from I've qualified them as a potential client to. 00:05:59.867 --> 00:06:05.666 We now have a starting date for the project and if you go through that every time, you don't have to think about it. 00:06:05.666 --> 00:06:07.810 You don't have to do any second guessing. 00:06:07.810 --> 00:06:28.954 The only thing you have to do is look at your calendar, see if you have availability, translate the answers to their questions onto the proposal, come up with the options that you're going to give them and I'm telling you my success rate since I started that proposal process has I calculated the other day because someone asked me to, and I'm at 95% success rate on converting proposals. 00:06:28.954 --> 00:06:30.843 Clients like it. 00:06:30.843 --> 00:06:35.805 When you have a straightforward, easy to follow system, what do you do, Jamie? 00:06:36.980 --> 00:06:39.625 Well, first of all, damn damn on that 95. 00:06:39.625 --> 00:06:40.928 Nice, nicely done. 00:06:41.149 --> 00:06:42.752 It's amazing, but I pre-qualify. 00:06:42.752 --> 00:06:43.814 That's important. 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:44.281 That's. 00:06:44.281 --> 00:06:45.425 That's important, for sure. 00:06:45.425 --> 00:06:49.428 Okay, every industry is a little different. 00:06:49.428 --> 00:07:05.084 On the proposal side of things and on what's expected and what's not, I will say that in my Over 15 years of doing this, I personally have made maybe three proposals. 00:07:05.084 --> 00:07:24.423 It's something that I don't participate in that often and I find isn't necessarily required for the way that I like to acquire or convert leads into clients, which I think this is pretty beneficial to see two very different ways to do it. 00:07:24.884 --> 00:07:32.598 For me, it all happens in real time, on the call, and it's me walking them through all the questions. 00:07:32.598 --> 00:07:34.310 How are you going to measure success for this? 00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:35.473 Have you ever done this before? 00:07:35.473 --> 00:07:39.872 If so, what are some things you want to replicate, some things you want to avoid? 00:07:39.872 --> 00:07:42.798 If not, what are some anxieties you might have about this process? 00:07:42.798 --> 00:07:44.062 What are the things you're looking forward to? 00:07:44.062 --> 00:07:45.773 Who are our decision makers? 00:07:45.773 --> 00:07:47.336 What's our schedule looking like? 00:07:47.336 --> 00:07:51.899 Okay, here's my recommendation on a budget range something big to give us to talk to. 00:07:51.899 --> 00:07:54.490 We're from X to Y to give us a conversation starter. 00:07:54.490 --> 00:07:55.572 Now let's talk about budget. 00:07:55.572 --> 00:07:57.375 Okay, you walk them through the whole thing. 00:07:57.375 --> 00:08:06.194 At the end of it, you've got a game plan and a pretty rough budget established and you say are we ready to do this or not? 00:08:06.194 --> 00:08:10.632 It's like we're right then and there because I want to have that conversation with them. 00:08:11.173 --> 00:08:19.055 I think that any time that I've sent a number and I've sent a game plan, it does encourage ghosting. 00:08:19.055 --> 00:08:21.742 But also, you don't know if you're being ghosted. 00:08:21.742 --> 00:08:29.300 And putting a timeline on it helps for sure, but I would catch myself negotiating against myself. 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:31.994 Five days after sending it I'd send another email. 00:08:31.994 --> 00:08:33.458 Hey, just check it in. 00:08:34.211 --> 00:08:36.460 Also, if the number was wrong, let's talk it over. 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:48.697 I can come up with a way to get us down to a lower number, xyz when really they'd already decided that they were going to do it and they were just waiting on approval from the boss, or there are any number of things could be happening when you think you're being ghosted. 00:08:48.697 --> 00:08:50.912 So I want to be in the room for that conversation. 00:08:50.912 --> 00:09:01.898 So I like to present the plan and the number then and there on that call, get everybody signed off to it and then most that will happen afterwards is the scope of work will get sent over for final sign off. 00:09:01.898 --> 00:09:07.664 Yeah, but that's the way that we do it, because there is no, they can't ghost you on the call, right? 00:09:07.664 -->

00:09:08.826 They can't just. 00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:10.095 Oh, they can, but. 00:09:12.010 --> 00:09:12.974 Oops, oops. 00:09:13.274 --> 00:09:14.500 I lost my internet connection. 00:09:15.811 --> 00:09:31.296 But it is something that is just something that I remember we were consulting on a production for a very, very large brand, top five brand in the world size company, and they asked me can you put together a deck of everything that we just talked about? 00:09:31.296 --> 00:09:40.937 My inner monologue is going why, like we just talked, like we just talked about it, and then they say you put together a deck and we'll have another call and go go through your proposal? 00:09:41.238 --> 00:09:42.400 Bureaucracy man. 00:09:43.110 --> 00:09:44.196 I said, okay, all right. 00:09:44.196 --> 00:09:48.322 And the morning of that call again huge company. 00:09:48.322 --> 00:10:09.488 I opened up Keynote and just made my deck and they all get on the call and it's two slides the first slide is the problem and the second slide is the solution, with the budget on it, and we hashed it out and I guess they just needed that to feel like they needed the visual. 00:10:09.488 --> 00:10:12.580 But that's probably as close to a proposal as I've gotten in a long time. 00:10:13.121 --> 00:10:13.744 That's lovely. 00:10:13.744 --> 00:10:15.230 So I do want to clarify. 00:10:15.230 --> 00:10:20.802 I do high value work like perceived and actual. 00:10:20.802 --> 00:10:28.922 So ghostwriting a book, there are a lot of details that need to be agreed on in writing to make sure that there's accountability on both sides. 00:10:28.922 --> 00:10:39.780 And with content strategies there are a lot of moving pieces, a lot of deadlines, a lot of requirements for things that need done on both sides for success. 00:10:39.780 --> 00:10:47.998 So I do proposals because it clearly outlines that and it provides that level of accountability on both sides from the get-go. 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:53.115 And now ghostwriting I'm usually talking to the person who's going to sign off on it. 00:10:53.115 --> 00:10:56.860 So my proposal is my contract with ghostwriting. 00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:58.817 Everything is in there that they need. 00:10:58.817 --> 00:11:00.957 I have a brief thing on payments. 00:11:00.957 --> 00:11:08.788 I don't go into a lot of clauses because it freaks them out If they need a content strategy. 00:11:09.711 --> 00:11:23.567 My initial point of contact on the discovery call is very rarely the decision maker and they need something in writing to take to the decision maker to actually say this is what we're going to do. 00:11:23.567 --> 00:11:26.475 Now do I do full-on proposals for blog posts? 00:11:26.475 --> 00:11:30.576 Never that I give them pricing on the phone because I know ahead of time what I'm willing to do that for. 00:11:30.576 --> 00:11:34.346 Or that I give them pricing on the phone, because I know ahead of time what I'm willing to do that for and we just do the thing. 00:11:34.346 --> 00:11:36.570 But yeah, for more complex projects. 00:11:36.570 --> 00:11:43.559 The primary point of a proposal is so they can see everything clearly outlined. 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:59.235 The biggest thing and this is why I send the Loom video is because the decision maker was not in the room, yeah, is because the decision maker was not in the room, yeah, and this gives them the opportunity to see my face, to understand that this is an important process and to do the thing. 00:11:59.556 --> 00:12:03.599 My success rate on blogs probably isn't as high, but I don't write blogs for people much anymore. 00:12:03.599 --> 00:12:05.701 It's just not what I enjoy doing. 00:12:05.701 --> 00:12:16.349 I like doing the ghostwriting and the content strategy, so I love what you do when you just do it on the phone. 00:12:16.349 --> 00:12:33.825 Let's talk for a second, though, about the level of confidence that that takes and the fact that your sales process and you are incredibly sure of what you're going to charge and you're able to figure that up really quickly on the call, because that's where a lot of people really struggle. 00:12:33.825 --> 00:12:37.972 In my conversations with them, I feel like the client put me on the spot. 00:12:37.972 --> 00:12:40.825 So how do you prevent that feeling? 00:12:40.825 --> 00:12:41.668 How do you? 00:12:41.668 --> 00:12:51.312 Do you have like a pricing guide that's yours and yours alone, or do you just know at this point, this is the value, this is what I'm bringing to the table. 00:12:51.875 --> 00:12:55.004 Yeah well, here is the value, this is what I'm bringing to the table. 00:12:55.004 --> 00:12:59.687 Yeah Well, here's the secret. 00:12:59.687 --> 00:13:08.231 Guys, Even 15 years into this thing, I still have a cheat sheet that is up on my computer before I call, like this and it makes you look awesome because it's written in kind of a choose your own adventure style. 00:13:08.231 --> 00:13:10.496 If they say this, here's where you're going. 00:13:10.496 --> 00:13:12.690 If they say this, this is what you're going to say. 00:13:12.690 --> 00:13:15.499 It's not a script, because that's you immediately. 00:13:15.499 --> 00:13:19.193 People figure that one out real quick and that's just a weird conversation. 00:13:19.193 --> 00:13:20.035 It's not that. 00:13:20.035 --> 00:13:20.397 It's. 00:13:20.946 --> 00:13:24.500 Here are the questions I'm asking to determine their budget. 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:32.369 Here are the questions I'm asking to determine what they're really going to respond to, essentially, what their goals are, what their magic wand experiment. 00:13:32.369 --> 00:13:33.852 Everything goes according to plan. 00:13:33.852 --> 00:13:36.827 Everything works out better than you would ever imagine it would. 00:13:36.827 --> 00:13:38.152 What is the result here? 00:13:38.152 --> 00:13:39.033 What are we aiming for? 00:13:39.033 --> 00:13:39.885 It's things like that.

00:13:39.885 --> 00:13:43.035 We're trying to get them, trying to get an understanding of their objectives. 00:13:43.035 --> 00:13:48.736 But yeah, there is a definite cheat sheet up on my computer that I've just gotten very good at using. 00:13:48.736 --> 00:13:50.760 Oh, that is it's practice. 00:13:50.760 --> 00:13:55.676 Once you have a very similar conversation a number of times, it gets a lot easier. 00:13:55.676 --> 00:14:08.015 But yeah, it's very rare that I go into a call like that, especially with a significant project, without having planned out exactly how you know the eight different ways this conversation could go. 00:14:08.884 --> 00:14:08.965 Yeah. 00:14:08.965 --> 00:14:15.832 So that's why he doesn't have to send a proposal, because he's already done all of the thinking work before the call. 00:14:15.832 --> 00:14:33.826 If you need to weigh everything and do it after the call, or if you're not good being put on the spot, so if you're not good ad-libbing and being really confident and saying to a client to their face, I'm going to charge you $25,000 for this project, or the investment for this project would be $25,000. 00:14:33.826 --> 00:14:43.951 That either takes an incredible amount of moxie or you just have to be a sociopath and you're able to lie with a straight face every single time. 00:14:43.951 --> 00:14:49.307 Whichever it works, but you have to Whatever gets it done Whatever gets it done. 00:14:50.109 --> 00:15:02.894 But you just you do have to practice, and if you're, you can either practice on potential clients or you could find a person you could join a group, you could do a thing where you're actually practicing discovery calls. 00:15:02.894 --> 00:15:19.051 And if you get paired up with a partner who throws curve balls at you, all the better, because that simple act of responding to one of those really stupid things in real time means you can do it on a client call and not have a problem. 00:15:19.051 --> 00:15:29.818 One other thing I would add for Sophia, and this is why my success rate's 95% I do not send proposals to clients I don't want to work with. 00:15:29.818 --> 00:15:31.807 I do not send proposals to clients I don't want to work with. 00:15:31.807 --> 00:15:37.833 I send them a very nice email saying I'm not a fit for this project and it doesn't fit in my schedule. 00:15:37.833 --> 00:15:39.836 I'm happy to refer you to someone else. 00:15:39.836 --> 00:15:43.299 Let me know if that is something that you're interested in. 00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:44.581 It was lovely talking to you. 00:15:44.581 --> 00:15:46.326 All the best with your project. 00:15:46.346 --> 00:15:50.472 And if they were a red flag discovery call? 00:15:50.472 --> 00:16:01.105 They slipped through the pre-qualification process and then they threw up all kinds of red flags the man who does the verbal equivalent of smacking you on the ass when you walk by. 00:16:01.105 --> 00:16:04.474 You just send them a one-line email. 00:16:04.474 --> 00:16:06.418 Sorry, I almost made Jamie spit out his drink. 00:16:06.418 --> 00:16:12.836 You send them a one-line email and say I'm not a good fit for this project. 00:16:12.836 --> 00:16:14.139 I wish you all the best, that's all. 00:16:14.139 --> 00:16:16.671 You don't have to offer reasons and excuses. 00:16:16.671 --> 00:16:18.956 Read the room. 00:16:18.956 --> 00:16:23.797 You might be sending proposals for clients who really weren't even interested on the discovery call. 00:16:23.797 --> 00:16:25.610 That's a possibility. 00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:37.197 Jamie's way weeds them out really quickly because Jamie gives them a price and they say that doesn't work for us and then the call's over and you're done with it, and I'm sure you also pre-qualify your clients. 00:16:38.346 --> 00:16:47.130 Oh yeah, you hit on that so I figured I wouldn't tread that ground again, but that is another big part of it is that you don't want to waste anybody's time, theirs or yours. 00:16:47.130 --> 00:16:49.754 If you know how this one's going to end, don't even bother. 00:16:49.754 --> 00:16:52.499 But if they're qualified, then we're all in on it. 00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:53.200 Yeah. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:08.376 So, sophia, whichever way you go, come up with a system, even if it's Jamie's cheat sheet system or a full on onboarding process, whatever it is, have a process of some kind, because that's what gives you the confidence, I think, to really move forward with that. 00:17:09.278 --> 00:17:09.700 Absolutely. 00:17:09.700 --> 00:17:18.809 It gives you the confidence and it gives the client the confidence to move forward with you, because it says, okay, this person has a game plan here, this person has a way to get it done. 00:17:19.511 --> 00:17:20.736 Yep, and it works. 00:17:20.736 --> 00:17:44.009 I think one of the things that makes it even more powerful is when you're honestly in the relationship with the goal of making life easier for your client in some way, rather than I'm going to charge them the big bucks because they know, they absolutely know if you're in it for the money or if you're in it to partner with them and solve a problem and that's been our theme of the week but partner with them rather than doing the thing. 00:17:44.009 --> 00:17:55.609 And if proposals are not working for you, try Jamie's method or just do a verbal proposal, say, let me come up with all of the details on the project and we can jump back on another call and I can share those with you. 00:17:55.609 --> 00:17:58.912 Nobody ever said a proposal has to be a written document. 00:17:59.554 --> 00:18:00.616 Yeah, absolutely. 00:18:00.924 --> 00:18:04.990 And then you can ask them to bring the decision maker to that second call. 00:18:05.692 --> 00:18:06.193 Definitely. 00:18:06.674 --> 00:18:08.057 That works All right. 00:18:08.057 --> 00:18:10.653 That is the end of day four with Jamie. 00:18:10.653 --> 00:18:12.769 Tomorrow we're going to do a bit of