บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Node2Shell Exploit Hits OpenAI Stack - Gold Drops as Iran War Fears Escalate

for normal users to allow this 79 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:12.380 kind of behavior because they just don't know 80 00:04:12.380 --> 00:04:14.240 what's going on. In fact, I think it's 81 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.940 possible that bank users are becoming more sophisticated 82 00:04:17.940 --> 00:04:20.940 and these banks fear that if there's a 83 00:04:20.940 --> 00:04:23.880 simple way for users to move their funds 84 00:04:23.880 --> 00:04:25.700 and that removes some of these points of 85 00:04:25.700 --> 00:04:29.040 friction, they will see deposit flight and they'll 86 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.840 be forced to compete, heaven forbid. We'll talk 87 00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:33.920 about that a little bit. And then this 88 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.120 other story about the PHP 2 Shell and 89 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.960 Node 2 Shell, another critical bug found by 90 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:43.540 Open AI's Codex that can unlock these issues 91 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:44.960 that have been present for a long time. 92 00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:47.340 We kind of discussed this on Wednesday, but 93 00:04:47.340 --> 00:04:49.980 it bears repeating that the model that found 94 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:53.940 these problems was not six, not six point 95 00:04:53.940 --> 00:04:57.440 one, but five. 5 .6 .6. So we're 96 00:04:57.440 --> 00:05:01.040 talking models from, you know, six months ago, 97 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.100 five months ago, something like that, a long 98 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:06.340 while back. And I don't know, boys, Joe, 99 00:05:06.340 --> 00:05:08.880 I'll start with you. You know, obviously there's 100 00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:11.820 a bank angle here. There's a cybersecurity angle. 101 00:05:11.820 --> 00:05:13.200 And I think there's also probably a Bitcoin 102 00:05:13.200 --> 00:05:15.560 angle. Where's your money really safe these days? 103 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.640 A lot of people saying Bitcoin, not the 104 00:05:17.640 --> 00:05:19.000 safest way to store your money, too much 105 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.260 responsibility. No way to call customer service if 106 00:05:22.260 --> 00:05:24.640 something goes wrong. But man, it's starting to 107 00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:27.500 feel like the opposite is true. Yeah, I 108 00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:31.780 mean, it's interesting, you know, Chimov at the 109 00:05:31.780 --> 00:05:33.580 exact same time he's rallying against the fact 110 00:05:33.580 --> 00:05:34.980 that Bitcoin's going to go to zero for 111 00:05:34.980 --> 00:05:36.720 whatever reason he gave this time. It's all 112 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.680 cope. You're seeing, I think, 3 % of 113 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:41.780 all of what is considered to be critical 114 00:05:41.780 --> 00:05:44.520 infrastructure hacks on the internet to have occurred 115 00:05:44.520 --> 00:05:46.820 in the last week, right? And lo -mhold, 116 00:05:46.820 --> 00:05:48.120 none of them have to do with Bitcoin, 117 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.260 right? So it's kind of hilarious and really 118 00:05:51.260 --> 00:05:53.540 unsettling and kind of troubling at the exact 119 00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:54.720 same time that all of this is coming 120 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:56.860 to ahead. And it took a model that 121 00:05:56.860 --> 00:05:59.100 wasn't even all that powerful to do it. 122 00:05:59.100 --> 00:06:00.660 Yeah, Dave, where do you come down on 123 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:02.580 this? You got any thoughts on this big 124 00:06:02.580 --> 00:06:05.980 cybersecurity issue? You know, continuing to expand here 125 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:07.900 while you're giving your thoughts. I'll pull up 126 00:06:07.900 --> 00:06:10.300 the latest from AWS as well. Yeah, I 127 00:06:10.300 --> 00:06:12.240 mean, Bitcoin was kind of like the canary 128 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.660 and the coal mine, right? It made sense 129 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:17.780 that the moment that this sort of level 130 00:06:17.780 --> 00:06:21.220 of cybersecurity attack was possible with AI, that 131 00:06:21.220 --> 00:06:23.840 they would go after Bitcoin first. You know, 132 00:06:23.840 --> 00:06:26.020 it's the most direct way to steal. money 133 00:06:26.020 --> 00:06:28.660 is to go after Bitcoin companies and products. 134 00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:30.320 And we saw that obviously with the cold 135 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:32.940 card and another subsequent hacks that we've seen. 136 00:06:32.940 --> 00:06:35.620 And I think what we're going to see 137 00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:38.720 in the broader sort of like tech and 138 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.240 finance ecosystems is very similar to what we've 139 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:43.020 seen in Bitcoin, where you know, you had 140 00:06:43.020 --> 00:06:45.460 the Bitcoin Red team out there, hardening everything, 141 00:06:45.460 --> 00:06:48.560 scanning everything. And ultimately, that's the only thing 142 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.540 that's going to get us through this risk 143 00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:54.780 is using the same AI to scan and 144 00:06:54.780 --> 00:06:58.460 plug those holes. because eventually there will be, 145 00:06:58.460 --> 00:07:00.160 you know, they'll run out of holes. There's 146 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.960 only so many iterations to the AI that 147 00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:06.480 can find new holes. And so I think 148 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.880 the rest of the world is just like 149 00:07:08.880 --> 00:07:11.440 a couple months behind. And, you know, the 150 00:07:11.440 --> 00:07:14.100 silver lining might be that this will probably 151 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:16.580 force a lot of companies to start rethinking, 152 00:07:16.580 --> 00:07:19.440 you know, what software they use and why. 153 00:07:19.440 --> 00:07:22.960 There's this epidemic across, you know, government especially, 154 00:07:22.960 --> 00:07:25.040 but any kind of large -scale enterprise where 155 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.980 they're just using like old and

stupid software 156 00:07:27.980 --> 00:07:30.880 because no one wants to bother to upgrade. 157 00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:33.140 And, you know, now we're in this spot 158 00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:36.660 where they're going to be forced to upgrade. 159 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:40.040 And, you know, that hopefully will lead to 160 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.420 fewer things like dealing with government systems that 161 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:46.940 were probably started in the 90s. You know, 162 00:07:46.940 --> 00:07:50.600 those will all have to be modernized and 163 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:53.420 AI -proofed. Yeah, at minimum. And speaking of 164 00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:55.080 government, it's, you know, sort of. is worth 165 00:07:55.080 --> 00:07:57.720 mentioning here that Wikipedia Steam and some government 166 00:07:57.720 --> 00:07:59.800 websites, including here in Canada. Canada took down 167 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:01.400 a number of websites are AI and tech 168 00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:04.880 minister Evan Solomon, the art dealer, as he's 169 00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:06.640 known, talking about how we had to pull 170 00:08:06.640 --> 00:08:08.640 down a bunch of websites for security reasons 171 00:08:08.640 --> 00:08:11.660 and vulnerability reasons. I want to ask you 172 00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:14.120 guys, because we talk a lot about, you 173 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:15.600 know, sort of the difference between keeping your 174 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.400 coins on exchange and self -custody and some 175 00:08:17.400 --> 00:08:20.280 of the pros and cons and tradeoffs. We 176 00:08:20.280 --> 00:08:22.380 also talked not long ago about the AriPol 177 00:08:22.380 --> 00:08:25.460 claims that Coinbase was subject to a hack 178 00:08:25.460 --> 00:08:26.920 and lost something in the neighborhood of $25 179 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:29.520 million that, you know, and some of that 180 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:31.440 belonged to his firm and his, whatever, his 181 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:34.900 outfit there. They denied it, obviously, as any 182 00:08:34.900 --> 00:08:37.720 competent company would, I think. But it makes 183 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:39.020 you wonder, and I, you know, I want 184 00:08:39.020 --> 00:08:41.620 to get your thoughts, Joe, on this first. 185 00:08:41.620 --> 00:08:43.800 You know, you see all these hacks landing 186 00:08:43.800 --> 00:08:46.860 over and over and over again on, I 187 00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:48.820 mean, government is one thing. But to have, 188 00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:53.380 like, Steam, Wikipedia, a few other sort of 189 00:08:53.380 --> 00:08:56.000 outfits you would consider to be. be, if 190 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.160 not on the cutting edge of tech and 191 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:00.580 security a little bit, at least closer than 192 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:04.040 governments are. These guys are getting hit. And 193 00:09:04.040 --> 00:09:07.500 Coinbase, obviously, would be a super honeypot. As 194 00:09:07.500

--> 00:09:11.060 both you guys mentioned, Bitcoin and Crypto broadly 195 00:09:11.060 --> 00:09:13.800 are a nice place to really try some 196 00:09:13.800 --> 00:09:15.220 of the horsepower you have with some of 197 00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:18.240 these open -weight, open source models as far 198 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.880 as attacking and trying to find holes. Is 199 00:09:21.880 --> 00:09:26.680 it reasonable, you think, to assume? that Coinbase, 200 00:09:26.680 --> 00:09:29.020 Cracken, some of these other exchanges have actually 201 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:31.720 been compromised and they're just either not talking 202 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.500 about it. They're telling, they're telling, maybe not 203 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:37.980 market participants, but news outlets to not cover 204 00:09:37.980 --> 00:09:39.640 it, stuff like this. It's hard for me 205 00:09:39.640 --> 00:09:41.740 to imagine that they're not getting hit when 206 00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:43.880 they would be the most obvious honeypots for 207 00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:47.180 this kind of, this kind of offensive effort. 208 00:09:47.180 --> 00:09:50.000 Right. I would imagine you might start seeing 209 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.060 news about it in the coming days or, 210 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:54.340 I mean, you got to, you got to, 211 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:55.700 I don't think. that they would be paying 212 00:09:55.700 --> 00:09:57.120 a news outlet to not cover it. And 213 00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:58.600 I think if they were, then the news 214 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.100 outlet would go for it because consider the 215 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:04.240 public zeitgeist toward Bitcoin right now is largely 216 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:06.500 bundled in with the crypto garbage, especially from 217 00:10:06.500 --> 00:10:09.420 FTX. It's super popular to talk about this 218 00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:10.580 stuff. And I think it would be major 219 00:10:10.580 --> 00:10:13.200 mainstream headline news. Like Coffeyzilla made most of 220 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.040 his entire brand talking about this stuff. So 221 00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:17.640 I think if this did happen and when 222 00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:20.200 it does happen, inevitably, I think that it's 223 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.600 going to be national news. Everybody wants to 224 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.780 catch the next FTX to report on it. 225 00:10:24.780 --> 00:10:27.060 So it seems for now, at least I 226 00:10:27.060 --> 00:10:30.640 would surmise that all systems are go. But 227 00:10:30.640 --> 00:10:32.920 given what happened with the Coinbase hack and 228 00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:34.460 the fact that that wasn't really widely reported 229 00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:37.100 at the time, you know, it might already 230 00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:39.240 be occurring. So that's kind of disconcerting. I 231 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:42.300 also saw somebody tweet today. Dana, who is 232 00:10:42.300 --> 00:10:44.060 a regular on

the Bitcoin Today show, she 233 00:10:44.060 --> 00:10:46.660 tweeted out that her uncle, his Charles Schwab 234 00:10:46.660 --> 00:10:48.780 account was hacked into. And they tried moving 235 00:10:48.780 --> 00:10:52.540 a few million dollars in funds only for 236 00:10:52.540 --> 00:10:56.060 him to notice it. put a stop to 237 00:10:56.060 --> 00:10:58.960 it by contacting Charles Schwab. So internet security, 238 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:00.620 as we know it, it seems is kind 239 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:02.020 of going out the window. And I think, 240 00:11:02.020 --> 00:11:04.440 yeah, you know, crypto exchanges or I think, 241 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.180 I think the first vector will be individual 242 00:11:06.180 --> 00:11:09.040 accounts because as far as security is concerned, 243 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:11.980 that's much more low -hanging fruit, right? So 244 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:13.700 that's that's kind of what I would, what 245 00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:15.860 I would observe, expect a lot more of 246 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:18.200 those different stories to be cropping up. I'm 247 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:23.440 curious, you know, about this, this idea that, 248 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.480 I mean, if you think about coins, base. 249 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:27.340 Coinbase is, I don't want to say too 250 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:29.280 big to fail, but I'll, you know, I'll 251 00:11:29.280 --> 00:11:31.280 put it to you guys. It feels to 252 00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:33.380 me like with the number of Bitcoin they 253 00:11:33.380 --> 00:11:36.100 hold for ETFs, for MSTR, for all these 254 00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:40.660 other different, you know, the suit and tie 255 00:11:40.660 --> 00:11:44.520 type investment vehicles that are Bitcoin adjacent or 256 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:47.440 Bitcoin related, I do really feel like maybe 257 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.340 you're right, Joe, they wouldn't be paying news 258 00:11:49.340 --> 00:11:51.200 orgs to not report on this, but the 259 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.920 government instead would be stepping in and saying, 260 00:11:52.920 --> 00:11:54.660 hey, this is a trillion dollar, trillion and 261 00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:56.540 a half, dollar asset class even more, I 262 00:11:56.540 --> 00:11:58.260 think if you include like all the garbage 263 00:11:58.260 --> 00:12:00.900 those guys have on their platform. Is it 264 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:03.860 possible that these guys are saying to themselves, 265 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:06.160 look, we need to upgrade our security for 266 00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:10.940 sure, but we are unwilling to have any 267 00:12:10.940 --> 00:12:12.820 downtime to do it, which means the technical 268 00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:14.980 deficits will persist on the network, right? The 269 00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:16.840 same way that your doctor's office is, you 270 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:19.000 know, they're, the hospitals, whatever, that you go 271 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:23.000 to, the reason their software and their internal 272 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:25.400 sort of machinations are so slum, because they 273 00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:27.620 can never go offline to tear down and 274 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:29.060 rebuild, right? They have to be online all 275 00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:30.680 the time. It feels to me like Coinbase 276 00:12:30.680 --> 00:12:32.460 is almost in the same boat now. And 277 00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:35.120 they got there very suddenly, unlike hospitals and 278 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:38.840 schools or electrical grids or whatever, you know, 279 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.800 who have decades of technical deficit from a 280 00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:45.060 totally bygone era. These guys have recent software, 281 00:12:45.060 --> 00:12:48.140 recent security measures, and now find themselves, I 282 00:12:48.140 --> 00:12:49.760 think I'm prepared to update as quickly as 283 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:51.780 they need to. Dave, I'll pass to you 284 00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:54.240 here. is there something to be said for 285 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.780 the coinbase and the other big exchanges being 286 00:12:57.780 --> 00:12:59.280 characterized as too big to fail by the 287 00:12:59.280 --> 00:13:01.340 White House, too big to fail by other 288 00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:04.320 governments even, who knows? And this idea of 289 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.320 technical deficits that they just weren't ready to 290 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.980 put a pause on to tear down and 291 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:13.700 rebuild, given that probably a lot of them, 292 00:13:13.700 --> 00:13:15.160 especially like you're kind of, I don't want 293 00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:16.060 to say it, but you're kind of in 294 00:13:16.060 --> 00:13:18.140 the middle of a run in price, right? 295 00:13:18.140 --> 00:13:19.880 People are interested. They're buying. There's probably a 296 00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:21.760 little more volume than if there was a 297 00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:24.760 bare, market in front of us. You know, 298 00:13:24.760 --> 00:13:26.040 give me, give me your thoughts there. Don't 299 00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:28.600 let me, don't let me change your smoking 300 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.580 cadence, but give me your thoughts when you're 301 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:34.080 ready. Yeah, so technical deficit is less of 302 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.120 an issue than it used to be. Like, 303 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.320 in the days of AI, you can rebuild 304 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:41.200 something quite quickly in a new language or 305 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:43.900 on a new dependency or something like that. 306 00:13:43.900 --> 00:13:47.140 So I don't think that's the issue. All 307 00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:50.020 of these companies, Coinbeast Cracken Included, will have 308 00:13:50.020 --> 00:13:53.240 been getting hit with the full, force of 309 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.620 whatever the Chinese own weight models can do 310

00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:58.520 wielded by the best North Korean hackers in 311 00:13:58.520 --> 00:14:01.700 the world. And, you know, so the last 312 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:05.240 couple months, that's been happening undoubtedly. And there 313 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.220 is a bigger risk. There's a different risk 314 00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:10.100 here with Coinbase than there is with the 315 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:13.340 attacks happening on the current financial system. I 316 00:14:13.340 --> 00:14:15.780 agree right now, like, those individual accounts are 317 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:17.300 probably what they're going to be going after. 318 00:14:17.300 --> 00:14:19.980 But like, if North Korea were to get 319 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:22.860 full route access to bank account. of America, 320 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.020 for example. It's not like they can just 321 00:14:25.020 --> 00:14:29.420 send themselves all the money, right? There's no, 322 00:14:29.420 --> 00:14:31.120 there's no account for them to land in. 323 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.720 There's, there's a series of trusted intermediaries in 324 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.840 between to even send a wire to Asia 325 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.620 at all. So it's, it's not quite the 326 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:41.720 same custody risk that it is with Bitcoin, 327 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:43.300 whereas, you know, if they were able to 328 00:14:43.300 --> 00:14:45.840 get into Coinbase in its entirety and get 329 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.880 into the cold storage, they could take all 330 00:14:47.880 --> 00:14:50.320 of the money. And I think the cold 331 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.800 card hack just showed us like we're we're 332 00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:55.920 now in an era where just being offline 333 00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:59.320 having your cold storage offline does not necessarily 334 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.760 make you safe right so how are those 335 00:15:02.760 --> 00:15:04.960 keys generated who is involved in the generation 336 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.040 of those keys what other factors could put 337 00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:10.600 those coins at risk and any corners that 338 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:13.060 have been cut in all of those processes 339 00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:16.160 they will uh you know they'll be found 340 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:18.100 and so we're about to find out i 341 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:20.960 guess is how good is Coinbase security? And, 342 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.360 you know, if they get hacked for $20 343 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.700 million, that's not going to, it's not going 344 00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:27.640 to compromise customer funds. It's not going to 345 00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:30.440 break the bank for a giant crypto casino 346 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.080 like that, but it will potentially shake the 347 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.860 faith of those who have their, you know, 348 00:15:36.860 --> 00:15:38.980 multi hundreds of billions of dollars in the 349 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:42.640 Coinbase custody. But, you know, I'm not all 350 00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:44.880 that worried about that as a final outcome 351 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:48.320 because my view on Coinbase and the ETFs 352 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.400 and, and micro strategy and everything, is that 353 00:15:50.400 --> 00:15:52.740 they're essentially just, they're lining up the coins 354 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:54.820 for the next 6102, right? They're getting as 355 00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:57.200 many coins into the effect of custody of 356 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.420 the U .S. government before they take them. 357 00:15:59.420 --> 00:16:01.180 And it'd be pretty funny if North Korea 358 00:16:01.180 --> 00:16:05.020 took them first, right? Okay, let me ask 359 00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:08.860 you this. The goal, I think, from a 360 00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:10.980 government, for example, let's go, we'll say North 361 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.520 Korea, just to keep the example fresh here. 362 00:16:13.520 --> 00:16:14.860 I don't think the goal would necessarily be 363 00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:16.120 to take the funds. The goal would be 364 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:17.560 to show the funds aren't safe and force 365 00:16:17.560 --> 00:16:19.700 a modern system. society into a bit of 366 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:21.620 chaos, which let's face it, we're not equipped 367 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.840 for, okay? We just don't have that sort 368 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.900 of build over here in most of Canada, 369 00:16:26.900 --> 00:16:29.380 most of the United States. I kind of 370 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:31.620 think that it's starting to work a little 371 00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:32.780 bit, and I hate to say it, but 372 00:16:32.780 --> 00:16:34.900 I look at like the messaging from the 373 00:16:34.900 --> 00:16:36.680 big AI firms. And I think if there 374 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:41.700 was a foreign government trying to use these 375 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:44.560 big AI firms to pass messaging that would 376 00:16:44.560 --> 00:16:48.540 be destabilizing to society, what would they ask? 377 00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:50.340 the big AI firms to say. They're saying 378 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.220 it. The guy from Anthropic yesterday talking about 379 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:54.400 things are going to get so much worse 380 00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:56.680 before they get better. Altman's saying that they 381 00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:58.940 have capabilities that no one is ready for. 382 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:00.620 And if they get out, it's a problem. 383 00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:02.340 They're announcing today, they're training all their models 384 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:04.420 offline. And I just think to myself, like, 385 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:07.080 if I was a guy in Asia or 386 00:17:07.080 --> 00:17:08.460 the Middle East or some other place that 387 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.140 didn't want America specifically to be successful

and 388 00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:13.200 remain sort of this like bastion of freedom 389 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.600 and democracy and capitalism -ish, this is the 390 00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:18.940 things I, these are things I'd be telling 391 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:21.460 the CEOs to say. And I don't know 392 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.940 what, what responsibility any of these guys have 393 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:27.200 to society, quote unquote. Like, I don't necessarily 394 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.000 think that any corporate CEO has responsibility to 395 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:33.500 keep people happy, fed, you know, bread and 396 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:36.060 circuses, all that stuff. But they do, I 397 00:17:36.060 --> 00:17:38.500 think, have a responsibility to do things like 398 00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:43.320 responsibly disclose new capabilities, to responsibly disclose new 399 00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:47.680 vulnerabilities, to responsibly keep people informed without alarming 400 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.900 them. Dave, do you think they've done that 401 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:51.560 or do you think that this is the 402 00:17:51.560 --> 00:17:53.440 opposite of what's going on or somewhere in 403 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.280 between? I think alarm is an appropriate response 404 00:17:57.280 --> 00:17:59.340 at the moment. Like, this is the last 405 00:17:59.340 --> 00:18:00.960 two days have been the worst two days 406 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.600 in history for cybersecurity. And if you are 407 00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:07.400 managing a system of any kind and you're 408 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.260 not spending significant time looking at your security 409 00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:13.480 of your systems, then you're negligent right now. 410 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:15.900 And so it is like an all hands 411 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.060 -on deck type of thing. More and more, 412 00:18:20.060 --> 00:18:22.300 you know, we kind of saw the American 413 00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:27.180 labs race to make the smartest possible model 414 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.480 until early June when Fable came out and 415 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.460 they were like, oh, shit, we can't let 416 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:35.160 normal people have shit this smart. And they 417 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:37.780 all kind of pulled back. But at the 418 00:18:37.780 --> 00:18:39.680 same time, like, do you think the Chinese 419 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:41.800 are slowing down? Do you think the Chinese 420 00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:44.400 have released their best stuff? Do you think 421 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.100 the North Koreans have stopped trying to train 422 00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:52.880 a smarter model? Like, the only defense against 423 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.440 the frontier models is a frontier model. Yeah, 424 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:57.820 I agree with that big time. I said 425 00:18:57.820 --> 00:19:00.220 as much to the anthropic guy on Twitter, 426 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:01.700 which is weird. He liked the tweet and 427 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:02.880 then didn't reply. Joe, where do you come 428 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.380 down on the responsibilities of these people who, 429 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:07.220 by the way, none of whom, the entire 430 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:09.360 board, the entire C -suite, no one benching 431 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:12.420 225. it's very shameful and I think we'd 432 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:13.880 be a lot better off if we forced 433 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:15.720 that as a requirement but anyway go ahead 434 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:17.860 yeah make me the combine all of them 435 00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:19.020 in the one entity and make me the 436 00:19:19.020 --> 00:19:21.380 CEO now what we'll do is we'll get 437 00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:23.400 up there we'll do we'll have Dario Altman 438 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:24.880 I know all they can't do it he's 439 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.340 a homosexual vegan but he will we'll have 440 00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:30.360 it I don't want to get the channel 441 00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:33.580 banned while the boys are right we'll do 442 00:19:33.580 --> 00:19:35.580 a bench press context like the NFL combine 443 00:19:35.580 --> 00:19:36.920 that's what we can do I was it 444 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:38.760 on TVPN it'll be great that's how we 445 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:40.820 figure out that's how we ensure proper security 446 00:19:40.820 --> 00:19:43.200 no i think that um for for anthropropic 447 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.920 mostly it's kind of a marketing tactic i 448 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.800 think that's i i would believe it a 449 00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:48.300 little bit more had there not been that 450 00:19:48.300 --> 00:19:50.300 hilarious clip outside of the white house south 451 00:19:50.300 --> 00:19:52.400 lawn of all of the press asking them 452 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.080 about it and dario having a hissy fit 453 00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:55.940 saying like oh it's gonna end humanity and 454 00:19:55.940 --> 00:19:57.160 then all the other guys were like looking 455 00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:58.480 at each other and kind of giggling they're 456 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.120 laughing so i think it's primarily a marketing 457 00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:04.500 tactic for now um which which does sell 458 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:07.940 quite well i mean uh however they're getting 459 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.700 scarily good scarily really quickly, right? Their ability 460 00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.500 to do things and analyze things and to 461 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.220 figure things out, it's getting a little bit, 462 00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:17.320 a little bit terrifying. So there are two 463 00:20:17.320 --> 00:20:19.120 things we can do, to your point. Like, 464 00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:20.160 number one, we can sort of say, all 465 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.380 right, halt all development. Let's slow the frontier. 466

00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:24.380 Let's pace this thing. Or we can say, 467 00:20:24.380 --> 00:20:26.280 let's lean full tilt into this. Let's take 468 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:28.100 a ton of federal resources and pour it 469 00:20:28.100 --> 00:20:30.040 into figuring out how to secure our country 470 00:20:30.040 --> 00:20:31.520 at a federal level from this, not like 471 00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:33.660 Patriot Act level stuff. But I mean, like 472 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.760 figuring out how we can do all of 473 00:20:36.760 --> 00:20:39.080 these things and secure ourselves as a nation. 474 00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.620 at the federal level and at the individual 475 00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:43.660 level, at private level, rather, before North Korea 476 00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.900 does, right? They're not paced in the frontier. 477 00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:48.300 China isn't pacing the frontier. China is still, 478 00:20:48.300 --> 00:20:50.480 you know, it hasn't slowed down its major 479 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.020 export of intellectual property theft. And so they're 480 00:20:53.020 --> 00:20:55.380 stealing everything we're building. They're building the models 481 00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:57.900 as fast as they can. They're obviously, you 482 00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:00.420 know, they're the only benefactor of North Korea. 483 00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:02.160 They're the reason North Koreans have any food 484 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.400 at all. And so they're helping them out 485 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.640 too. Now it's not the time to pace 486 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.320 the frontier. Now is the time to accelerate, 487 00:21:08.320 --> 00:21:09.560 right? If this is the future, we're heading 488 00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:11.760 into Pandora's box has already been opened, but 489 00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:13.040 you got a lean full tilt into this 490 00:21:13.040 --> 00:21:16.060 thing. Yeah, looking forward to that. If you 491 00:21:16.060 --> 00:21:17.980 wanted to make a case that you want 492 00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:21.300 to increase the overall safety of AI, it's 493 00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:22.980 very similar to the gun argument, right? It's 494 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:26.800 the, the safest thing that can happen for 495 00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:29.560 the largest number of people is to put 496 00:21:29.560 --> 00:21:32.680 the capabilities in the hands of the individual. 497 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:34.840 And then that individual can decide how they 498 00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:37.220 use those capabilities to protect themselves, their home, 499 00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:40.780 their business. and that's very opposite of what 500 00:21:40.780 --> 00:21:42.840 the governments want, right? They're not actually worried 501 00:21:42.840 --> 00:21:48.740 about, you know, Fable as a cybersecurity tool 502 00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:51.900 for the individual. They're worried that if this 503 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.300 AI gets smart enough, it's going to start 504 00:21:54.300 --> 00:21:57.260 challenging those structures of power that keep them 505 00:21:57.260 --> 00:22:00.220 in place. And, you know, I don't see 506 00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:04.400 any likelihood that the machine powering the United 507 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.340 States economy just suddenly decides to say, we're 508 00:22:07.340 --> 00:22:09.720 going to open source our golden goose. But 509 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.260 if you were actually worried about the safety 510 00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:14.980 as your top priority, that would be the 511 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.900 move, is to give the best of what 512 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:19.680 you have to everyone and let them defend 513 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.660 themselves. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's a lot 514 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.000 to be said for the likelihood that the 515 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.840 U .S. gives up any advantage that they 516 00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:31.460 have, including, by the way, telling the AI 517 00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:33.260 companies to stop with this pacing the frontier 518 00:22:33.260 --> 00:22:35.540 thing. I look forward to Sam Altman's Gaytriot 519 00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:40.660 Act personally. Let's look at the most recent 520 00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:43.900 hype cycle in gold is not what you 521 00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:46.480 think. Okay? It's not shiny rock go up. 522 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.340 It's not the debasement trade. It is alchemy. 523 00:22:50.340 --> 00:22:54.040 I mean, there's word from people, again, nobody 524 00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:57.760 in these videos benching or squatting 225, talking 525 00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:00.280 about how they have achieved some level of 526 00:23:00.280 --> 00:23:02.860 alchemy related to turning mercury into gold. I 527 00:23:02.860 --> 00:23:03.880 think I have that right. I got to 528 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:05.160 be honest, I didn't look at it. It's 529 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.780 not in the notes. Surprisingly, none of it. 530 00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:09.340 of us put in the notes, but amidst 531 00:23:09.340 --> 00:23:12.960 all this other chaos, gold falling below $4 532 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.080 ,000 an ounce for the first time in 533 00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:18.080 a while, down 15 % from the August 534 00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:22.980 25th high. Meanwhile, obviously, or maybe not so 535 00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.000 much, oil pushing up past $117 .17 bucks 536 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.580 a barrel. The Albertans love that. There's obviously 537 00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:33.340 more conflict starting in Iran between the U 538 00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:35.580 .S. and the boys in the Middle East. 539 00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:40.060 There's just a net. never ending sort of 540 00:23:40.060 --> 00:23:42.780 like conflict cycle that is driving now, I 541 00:23:42.780 --> 00:23:45.600 think, commodity prices, dare I say, more than 542 00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:49.120 the debasement trade.

Without reading all these tweets, 543 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:50.180 you know, you guys have seen these, I'm 544 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:51.680 sure, and people listening and watching have seen 545 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.080 this, so I won't bore them with the 546 00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:55.060 details, but they're out there for you. U 547 00:23:55.060 --> 00:23:58.340 .S. saying there might be a strike. I 548 00:23:58.340 --> 00:23:59.880 understand there's going to be a meeting between 549 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:01.580 Trump and Putin that Zelensky's not going to 550 00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:03.100 be invited to in the next little while. 551 00:24:03.100 --> 00:24:04.500 I think China is also going to be 552 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.240 evolved in that. There's quite a bit going 553 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.640 on. terms of the K -Fabe of sort 554 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.920 of day -to -day conflict theater, who are 555 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.280 we fighting, how are we fighting them, what's 556 00:24:15.280 --> 00:24:17.080 the most important thing about the fight, and 557 00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:19.600 maybe on the side of that, although not 558 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:22.820 for us, obviously as retail investors, what is 559 00:24:22.820 --> 00:24:25.560 the market doing as a result? And when 560 00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:28.960 I look at stuff like gold alchemy, not 561 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.240 really moving the price that much, is it 562 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:33.840 lower? Yes. But did I expect it to 563 00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:37.440 be a hit a little harder? maybe uh 564 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:38.620 i don't know joe you're kind of like 565 00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:40.460 smirking there i don't i don't understand i 566 00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.580 don't i don't purport to understand the properties 567 00:24:42.580 --> 00:24:44.480 of alchemy and these types of things i 568 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.160 mean we've been curious about this for millennia 569 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:50.220 at this point so far unsuccessfully but is 570 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.440 opus 5 .5 can help me turn my 571 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:53.960 you know the cold of my barbecues of 572 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.180 gold is that what i'm hearing yeah is 573 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:58.600 is opus 5 .5 going to fix my 574 00:24:58.600 --> 00:25:01.740 marriage i'm kidding i'm happily married i'm joking 575 00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:04.120 um i just i just wanted to say 576 00:25:04.120 --> 00:25:05.780 that joke for really like kai was like 577 00:25:05.780 --> 00:25:08.800 Hey, Grock, help me, you know. Anyway, yeah, 578 00:25:08.800 --> 00:25:11.020 no, it's not surprising, look, like the announcement, 579 00:25:11.020 --> 00:25:12.660 it's no, like, it obviously is sell off 580 00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:14.400 in the announcement. Like, hey, guys, we used 581 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.220 Frontier AM models to make more gold. I 582 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:19.760 wasn't expecting that. And so, like, obviously, there's 583 00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:20.540 going to be a tiny bit of a 584 00:25:20.540 --> 00:25:22.040 sell -off. The fact that it's not a 585 00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:24.040 huge sell -off is no surprise because they 586 00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:26.500 haven't figured out how to do it yet 587 00:25:26.500 --> 00:25:28.800 or how to do it reliably or quickly, 588 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:30.540 but like we're getting there, which is kind 589 00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:32.160 of crazy. I mean, you know, a decade 590 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.080 ago, um, electric vehicles were still relatively expensive 591 00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:37.940 the model three hadn't released yet you know 592 00:25:37.940 --> 00:25:39.320 you had to buy a sports car or 593 00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.600 like a really high luxury SUV in order 594 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:43.560 to get an electric vehicle and now you 595 00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:45.060 can buy a used tassel for like 18 596 00:25:45.060 --> 00:25:46.820 grand and it's pretty good and it can 597 00:25:46.820 --> 00:25:49.020 drive itself you know and also they fly 598 00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:51.920 too so these things happen quickly and that 599 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.640 was before sort of the the rise of 600 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:56.880 these these LLMs that have become these frontier 601 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.140 AI models uh so now that we're in 602 00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.460 that era things can accelerate quickly and so 603 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:03.300 you know I thought that the gold supply 604 00:26:03.300 --> 00:26:06.080 disruption would come from us landing on asteroids 605 00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:08.880 and mining gold there that's also happening in 606 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.540 tandem with gold alchemy being able to derive 607 00:26:11.540 --> 00:26:15.120 it from other other other other molecules so 608 00:26:15.120 --> 00:26:17.120 look these things are accelerating they're happening quickly 609 00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:18.560 and so yeah you want to own an 610 00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:20.080 asset they can't be printed and i guess 611 00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:23.580 gold can be printed now not quite yet 612 00:26:23.580 --> 00:26:25.320 right own what they can't print i guess 613 00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:26.460 peter schiff has to come up with a 614 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.060 new slogan um hey maybe peter shiff is 615 00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:30.300 going to buy these companies and shut them 616 00:26:30.300 --> 00:26:32.200 down who knows but the reality is these 617 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.620 technologies are being developed but as far as 618 00:26:34.620 --> 00:26:36.440 i know there isn't a technology that's being 619 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.500 developed to disrupt the supply of Bitcoin. There's 620 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.660 a technology being developed to try to, that 621 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:43.980 will inevitably lead to some, you

know, unsecure 622 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:46.740 wallets being being drained, but not one that 623 00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:48.480 can disrupt the supply of Bitcoin, to my 624 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.180 knowledge. Until we invent, you know, a sort 625 00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:53.940 of like a reverse EMP where someone will 626 00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:55.840 be able to hover above the earth and 627 00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:57.360 gain access to all the Bitcoin nodes and 628 00:26:57.360 --> 00:27:00.140 unilaterally control the rules, Bitcoin supply isn't going 629 00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:03.280 to get disrupted. So another, another feather in 630 00:27:03.280 --> 00:27:05.800 the cap of Camp Bitcoin, I suppose. down 631 00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:08.120 on that and do you need some sunglasses? 632 00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:10.240 It looks like you're being completely absorbed there 633 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.700 by the Alberta sunset. It's great now, though. 634 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:15.960 It's very good for you. I took my 635 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.160 glasses off because it's, it's good to take 636 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:20.260 direct sunlight into the eyes. It's the best 637 00:27:20.260 --> 00:27:24.480 way to absorb vitamin D. But yeah, I 638 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.560 mean, the thing that they didn't tell you 639 00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:30.460 about that hypothetical experiment is the input cost, 640 00:27:30.460 --> 00:27:32.900 right? And that's the part that's relevant. Like 641 00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:35.040 there's, there's way more gold that we can 642 00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:38.700 find, on asteroids that we can't get because 643 00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.200 it's too expensive. And so if it ends 644 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.740 up costing a massive amount to convert this 645 00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.800 mercury into gold, then it's basically irrelevant. But 646 00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:49.140 in the bigger picture in the long term, 647 00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:50.760 it could actually make gold a much better 648 00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:54.360 form of money. If, like, the input cost 649 00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:55.820 of gold is a little bit random right 650 00:27:55.820 --> 00:28:01.320 now, right? It's exploration, operations, execution, political stability, 651 00:28:01.320 --> 00:28:04.280 all these things go into the production cost 652 00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:06.420 of gold. And that's part of what makes 653 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.220 it a bad form of money, right? Is 654 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.200 because at the end of the day, the 655 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.900 supply of gold can respond to the demand 656 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:14.980 of gold. When the price goes up, more 657 00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:17.800 mines open up, you know, and more gold 658 00:28:17.800 --> 00:28:21.160 gets produced. Whereas if gold and the supply 659 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.560 of gold became a function of energy, which 660 00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.380 is likely to be the limiting input on 661 00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:29.360 some form of alchemy like they're describing, gold 662 00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:31.820 would actually become a lot closer to Bitcoin 663 00:28:31.820 --> 00:28:33.200 and would be a better form of money. 664 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.980 So that I think is a positive, but 665 00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:38.000 at this point, it's kind of science fiction. 666 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:39.740 You know what I mean? It's like, I'll 667 00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.260 believe it when I see a gold bar. 668 00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:44.300 It's like, what's that Star Trek? I don't 669 00:28:44.300 --> 00:28:46.280 want Star Trek, but what's the thing where 670 00:28:46.280 --> 00:28:48.000 you can make anything out of it? You 671 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.540 know, I don't know. Yeah, and you know 672 00:28:50.540 --> 00:28:54.760 what? That technology, the ability to essentially input 673 00:28:54.760 --> 00:28:57.880 energy into matter and get a new form 674 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.760 of matter, like the replicators or whatever they 675 00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:04.140 are on Star Trek. Replicator, that's it. Yeah, 676 00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:08.880 that is ultimately, you know, it would reduce 677 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.240 scarcity on humans. It would make energy the 678 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.820 scarce thing and matter would no longer be 679 00:29:13.820 --> 00:29:17.020 scarce. I mean, energy is a scarce thing 680 00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:19.500 already. People don't all realize that, but there's 681 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.420 a number of people, I think, are slowly 682 00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:25.300 coming to that conclusion. In the world of 683 00:29:25.300 --> 00:29:30.460 international espionage and adjacent topics here, we have 684 00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:34.200 a report from OSINT, that the Pentagon has 685 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.220 spent months building a new agency to covertly 686 00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:41.600 disrupt and sabotage foreign technology programs seen as 687 00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:44.920 threats to U .S. military superiority, according to 688 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:46.700 a dozen current and former U .S. national 689 00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:49.420 security officials who spoke to Politico. I am 690 00:29:49.420 --> 00:29:50.840 interested in this story for one reason and 691 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:53.660 one reason only. And it's because I think 692 00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:56.340 a lot of, I don't want to say 693 00:29:56.340 --> 00:29:57.320 a lot of people, but I think that 694 00:29:57.320 --> 00:30:00.420 there's a number of prominent political thinkers in 695 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:02.940 the U .S. and abroad that view the 696 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:07.100 Trump. Trump, Vance, Rubio, admin, you know, the 697 00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:09.840 sort of like hive mind, as returning to 698 00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:13.440 tradition, like returning to

traditional U .S. values, 699 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.860 I actually think the opposite is happening. They 700 00:30:14.860 --> 00:30:17.440 may be reconsidering some of these ideas about 701 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.900 how to influence foreign operations, but I think 702 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:22.340 they're actually modernizing in a way that they 703 00:30:22.340 --> 00:30:24.340 have not modernized in a long time. We 704 00:30:24.340 --> 00:30:27.320 talked a few weeks ago about Palmer Lucky 705 00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:29.260 and Elon and a few other people being 706 00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:34.180 responsible for this new generation of military. vehicles, 707 00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:36.740 military tech, military weapons, and I think like 708 00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:39.600 expedition strategy maybe of some kind. And, you 709 00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:44.240 know, in that same vein, Palmer, genetically modifying 710 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:49.400 dogs for a military startup called Warhound. I 711 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.460 love this idea. I think this is great. 712 00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:55.780 These dogs, by the way, you know, a 713 00:30:55.780 --> 00:30:57.080 lot of people will be mad about this, 714 00:30:57.080 --> 00:30:59.520 but what they don't realize is military dogs, 715 00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:02.280 especially like purebred shepherds, purebred, uh, sort of 716 00:31:02.280 --> 00:31:05.220 attack dogs have problems. Anyone who owns a 717 00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:06.460 dog knows this. If you have a purebred 718 00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:08.080 dog, you're more likely to get stuff like 719 00:31:08.080 --> 00:31:10.560 carcinoma, you're more likely to get stuff like 720 00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:13.800 bone issues, degenerative issues. You're more likely to 721 00:31:13.800 --> 00:31:15.640 have early death from all sorts of different 722 00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.060 stuff, you know, different cancers and whatnot. And 723 00:31:18.060 --> 00:31:21.020 if you can actually sort of, quote unquote, 724 00:31:21.020 --> 00:31:23.400 manufacture a dog to be not only like 725 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.540 a hunter killer, but also be healthy, smart, 726 00:31:26.540 --> 00:31:29.040 loyal. And, you know, I would guess that 727 00:31:29.040 --> 00:31:32.180 there's at least some thought on the periphery, 728 00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:33.820 of what these dogs are going to do 729 00:31:33.820 --> 00:31:35.600 once they're past their useful military life, you 730 00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:38.180 know, family dogs or whatever, police dogs. I 731 00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:39.760 love this idea. I'm a big fan of 732 00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:41.400 this. I'm curious, what do you guys make 733 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.760 of the current U .S. military sort of 734 00:31:45.760 --> 00:31:49.540 research arm here doing drones and dogs now 735 00:31:49.540 --> 00:31:50.780 for the first time. As far as I 736 00:31:50.780 --> 00:31:51.940 can tell, I don't think there's

ever been 737 00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:54.400 an initiative like this. I personally love it. 738 00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:57.320 But, Joe, what do you think? Based, based 739 00:31:57.320 --> 00:32:01.700 gamer autists. Just so awesome. Like, Palmer Lucky's 740 00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.080 whole arc is incredible, right? Like, he was 741 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.400 just a guy who loved video games and 742 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.000 loved tech and was tinkering in his garage 743 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.060 and he builds this company, extremely valuable, gets 744 00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:13.060 acquired by meta, gets fired. If Zuck didn't, 745 00:32:13.060 --> 00:32:15.020 back, low T, Zuck, back before he was 746 00:32:15.020 --> 00:32:17.060 cool, that's true, his hair cut and stuff. 747 00:32:17.060 --> 00:32:20.480 If, if, if Zuck didn't fire him, we 748 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.860 would not have Andrew, probably. We probably would 749 00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:25.000 not have this awesome startup. And we wouldn't 750 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.980 have. lucky going around saying like, hey, we 751 00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:31.700 should make it so that we create like 752 00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:33.760 an oxytocin drug to give to people who 753 00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:35.420 want to divorce each other to fix the 754 00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:37.300 birth grade. Like, you would never hear him 755 00:32:37.300 --> 00:32:38.600 saying that stuff if he was still like 756 00:32:38.600 --> 00:32:40.540 the Game Boy guy over at Meta, you 757 00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:43.020 know? So special thanks to Mark Zuckerberg, kudos 758 00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:46.040 to you. But I mean, I think ultimately 759 00:32:46.040 --> 00:32:49.020 this technology exists, again, to the point we're 760 00:32:49.020 --> 00:32:52.340 making earlier, other countries are doing this. Other 761 00:32:52.340 --> 00:32:54.660 countries are doing this. And also for like 762 00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:56.340 all of the pearl clutches who are like, 763 00:32:56.340 --> 00:32:59.580 oh my gosh, genetically modifying dogs, guys, how 764 00:32:59.580 --> 00:33:01.640 do you think every dog breed today came 765 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.940 into existence? Everybody's got a fucking doodle and 766 00:33:03.940 --> 00:33:07.580 is opposed to genetically modifying dogs. We just 767 00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:09.920 had them, you know, screw different pooches, you 768 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:12.000 know, in order to make these dogs. We 769 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.200 weren't genetically, but we weren't gene altering them. 770 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.020 But now, like, it's sort of just the 771 00:33:17.020 --> 00:33:18.800 next logical thing. It's just the 21st century 772 00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:21.080 version of what everybody in England was doing 773 00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:22.200 to make it so that they could catch 774 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.040 ducks properly. So like to all of the 775 00:33:25.040 -->

00:33:26.800 people who are pearl clutching, it's just kind 776 00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:28.260 of the next evolution of that. And I 777 00:33:28.260 --> 00:33:30.080 really have, I see no problem with it. 778 00:33:30.080 --> 00:33:31.380 Like, I want killer dogs. I don't want 779 00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:33.040 a dog that will kill me, but then 780 00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:35.840 kill other people. Dave, what kind of dog 781 00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:36.700 are you going to get from the war 782 00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:39.200 machine? Yeah, I'm like a little bit more 783 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.840 creeped out by it. I don't think it's 784 00:33:40.840 --> 00:33:43.540 going to be that relevant, honestly. In if 785 00:33:43.540 --> 00:33:46.280 you, if you add in the advances in 786 00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:49.920 robotics, the like the killing ability of a 787 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.000 robotic dog five years from now is going 788 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.740 to vastly exceed anything. that you can breed, 789 00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:57.440 I think. And so if you're looking about 790 00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.320 making machines to kill, I think that the, 791 00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:03.560 you know, the metal tech is going to 792 00:34:03.560 --> 00:34:08.300 exceed the biological tech pretty easily. And, you 793 00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:12.880 know, I don't like, I don't like the 794 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.540 idea, but I get the point of like, 795 00:34:14.540 --> 00:34:16.340 they're all genetically modified one way or the 796 00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:19.540 other, but there is a certain element that 797 00:34:19.540 --> 00:34:22.140 extends from dogs to humanity and everything else 798 00:34:22.140 --> 00:34:25.280 where we're in like the imperfections that the 799 00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.760 limitations of the world have put upon us 800 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.940 are part of what makes the world great 801 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.800 and even though these dogs have all these 802 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.920 issues you know the fact that they were 803 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:39.240 achieved through natural means i think makes them 804 00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:42.560 a little bit more uh something that you 805 00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:45.280 can identify with a little bit more than 806 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.520 uh you know the the the next killer 807 00:34:48.520 --> 00:34:50.960 german shepherd but the thing that it makes 808 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:52.200 me think of is if you can make 809 00:34:52.200 --> 00:34:54.140 you know if you can make german shepherds 810 00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:56.140 or your malnoy or whatever you want to 811 00:34:56.140 --> 00:34:58.160 be a better killer can you go the 812 00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:00.000 opposite direction can you be like yeah i 813 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.380 i need a grizzly that's like domesticated like 814 00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:06.520 a pug oh you know what i mean 815 00:35:06.520 --> 00:35:08.260 yeah pretty cool i mean hey in the 816 00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:10.920 same way that uh the the new roads 817 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.460 through that jumps off the the ground is 818 00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:15.540 sort of just the way of getting the 819 00:35:15.540 --> 00:35:19.780 uber wealthy to subsidize the development of uh 820 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:22.880 SpaceX's Lunar lander technology. This is like getting 821 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.280 the government to subsidize an eventual human gene 822 00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.880 editing company. So that way, like I can 823 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.900 give myself wings or whatever. Listen, we're going 824 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:33.080 to go to break before this gets out 825 00:35:33.080 --> 00:35:34.920 of control. When we get back, someone else 826 00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.440 is joining the show, number one, and we're 827 00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.400 going to talk about Chamoth and this coin 828 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.080 kite lawsuit, if you can believe it, uh, 829 00:35:43.080 --> 00:35:46.020 coming to fruition in Ontario. We'll be right 830 00:35:46.020 --> 00:35:50.400 back. Don't go anywhere.! to stop printing and 831 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.560 stop borrowing, you know exactly where Bitcoin is 832 00:35:52.560 --> 00:35:53.960 going. And whether your stack is already at 833 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:55.080 the size, where you know you should do 834 00:35:55.080 --> 00:35:56.580 something about it, or it's headed there, it's 835 00:35:56.580 --> 00:35:58.420 time your security caught up. That's why you 836 00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:01.320 need CASA premium. Your Bitcoin's secured across five 837 00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.640 keys. Three on hardware, from different vendors, one 838 00:36:03.640 --> 00:36:05.660 on your phone, and one held by CASA. 839 00:36:05.660 --> 00:36:07.060 Use any three to sign, which means if 840 00:36:07.060 --> 00:36:08.460 you lose one key, you don't lose your 841 00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:10.440 stack. It also means that CASA can't move 842 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:12.360 it without you. The kit, devices and everything 843 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:13.780 goes with it, ships right to your door, 844 00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:15.160 and their advisory team walks you through the 845 00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:16.660 full setup. And for those of you who 846 00:36:16.660 --> 00:36:18.240 care about privacy as much as I do, 847 00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:20.020 there's no KYC on the vault. Use any 848 00:36:20.020 --> 00:36:21.720 email you like, use any address you like. 849 00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:23.700 No one has to know your personal details. 850 00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:24.580 I know what you're thinking, what if something 851 00:36:24.580 --> 00:36:26.580 happens to CASA? What about my family? Well, 852 00:36:26.580 --> 00:36:28.200 sovereign recover means that you can always rebuild 853 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:30.200 using open source tools like Sparrow. And as

854 00:36:30.200 --> 00:36:32.260 for your family, CASA inheritance means you're not 855 00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:33.820 leaving them a locked box with no key. 856 00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:35.180 You invite them with an email and their 857 00:36:35.180 --> 00:36:36.700 key lies dormant while you're still alive, and 858 00:36:36.700 --> 00:36:38.620 should that day ever come, you don't have 859 00:36:38.620 --> 00:36:39.960 to worry about them having to figure it 860 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.500 out when you're not around to ask. You've 861 00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:43.140 already taken care of it. So head to 862 00:36:43.140 --> 00:36:45.680 CASA .io slash Sessions promo code sessions to 863 00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:47.920 receive 10 % off your first year. That's 864 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.740 casa .io slash sessions. code sessions. Click the 865 00:36:50.740 --> 00:36:52.080 link in the description down below or scan 866 00:36:52.080 --> 00:36:54.680 the QR code on the screen. One company 867 00:36:54.680 --> 00:36:56.780 I like pointing people to when they ask 868 00:36:56.780 --> 00:36:59.820 about Bitcoin mining is abundant mines. They were 869 00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:02.540 founded by Bo and Christine Turner after losing 870 00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:05.060 over half a million dollars to broken promises 871 00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:07.280 in the mining industry, and they built their 872 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.100 hosting model to remove the usual headaches. With 873 00:37:10.100 --> 00:37:12.840 abundant mines, you own your machines and keep 874 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:15.480 100 % of the Bitcoin you mine. There's 875 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:18.560 no revenue share, no hidden skims. Pricing is 876 00:37:18.560 --> 00:37:22.100 simple. One flat monthly fee covers power, parts, 877 00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:25.580 labor, and repairs. They also guarantee uptime. The 878 00:37:25.580 --> 00:37:28.120 machine goes down, their hash rate redirect system 879 00:37:28.120 --> 00:37:30.800 routes hash power from their fleet, so earnings 880 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.660 don't just stop, and every machine is insured 881 00:37:33.660 --> 00:37:36.980 at full replacement value. Everything is hosted in 882 00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:39.600 the U .S., powered by hydro, and mining 883 00:37:39.600 --> 00:37:42.640 equipment may qualify for 100 % year -one 884 00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:47.540 bonus depreciation. Learn more at abundantmines .com slash 885 00:37:47.540 --> 00:37:53.440 sessions. Welcome back. Adam Livingston is joining us. 886 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.100 I don't know where Dave is. There he 887 00:37:55.100 --> 00:37:56.200 is. I got to put him back on 888 00:37:56.200 --> 00:37:58.060 the screen here. Okay, here we go. Adam, 889 00:37:58.060 --> 00:38:00.000 thanks for coming. I know this was very 890 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.800 short notice, but it's good to see you. 891 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:05.920 I appreciate that unlike other Treasury company employees, 892 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.040 you don't have a fake gym in your 893 00:38:07.040 --> 00:38:09.360 garage that clearly has never been used as 894 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.380 a backdrop for the podcast. That's good. We 895 00:38:11.380 --> 00:38:12.180 like that on the show. Hey, that's his 896 00:38:12.180 --> 00:38:17.680 boss. Come on, back. I think you're muted. 897 00:38:17.680 --> 00:38:18.560 I don't know if you're muted or if 898 00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:19.680 it's just us that can't hear you. but 899 00:38:19.680 --> 00:38:22.260 some combination to do there. As you figure 900 00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.520 that out, we will bring up our... I 901 00:38:24.520 --> 00:38:26.100 think we're good now. Sorry. There we go. 902 00:38:26.100 --> 00:38:27.420 Yeah, I can hear you. As you figure 903 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.380 that out, we're going to bring up our 904 00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:34.100 next story from Bitcoin Archive, the Chamoth, Poly 905 00:38:34.100 --> 00:38:37.540 Hopatia hour here on BitCast. The most obvious 906 00:38:37.540 --> 00:38:40.320 thing for cryptographic hacks is to break shot 907 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.760 256 in Satoshi's wallet. I mean, I don't 908 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:44.340 know what I'm supposed to think about this 909 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.380 anymore. I see it over and over again. 910 00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:49.380 We've all seen it a million times. Adam, 911 00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:51.380 you. you're, you know, first on stream here. 912 00:38:51.380 --> 00:38:53.740 You may as well chime in. You know, 913 00:38:53.740 --> 00:38:56.400 I don't personally think that this deserves any 914 00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.220 error, but no matter what, especially when Chamath 915 00:38:59.220 --> 00:39:01.080 or someone of his stature says something stupid 916 00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:02.840 like this, I got to hear about it 917 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:04.560 in my text, my family chats. I got 918 00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:05.600 to hear about it. When I go to 919 00:39:05.600 --> 00:39:06.900 football, I got to hear about it at 920 00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:09.020 the gym. What do you tell people when 921 00:39:09.020 --> 00:39:11.560 they tell you this? That's a great question. 922 00:39:11.560 --> 00:39:12.760 And number one, thanks for having me. I'm 923 00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:14.940 a giant fan of the show, regular listener, 924 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:16.880 like pretty much almost every single episode because 925 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.940 the timing works well of my work day. 926 00:39:18.940 --> 00:39:21.500 So thanks for having me. My opinion on 927 00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:22.700 this is that it's just a bunch of 928 00:39:22.700 --> 00:39:25.800 fud nonsense. I think that I often have 929 00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.260 this conversation with normies, probably more than any 930 00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:31.120 other topic, people who are not orange -pilled. 931 00:39:31.120 --> 00:39:32.060 I don't

know if you guys are the 932 00:39:32.060 --> 00:39:33.360 same way, but it's like this is the 933 00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:35.620 number one fud topic. And I just think 934 00:39:35.620 --> 00:39:38.900 it's nonsensical because if shot 256 is broken, 935 00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:42.280 like literally what else in the entire traditional 936 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:45.800 finance ecosystem is broken first? Like, it's just 937 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.740 totally lunacy insane that like, for some reason, 938 00:39:49.740 --> 00:39:52.060 this is priority one in terms of what 939 00:39:52.060 --> 00:39:54.660 gets broken. Like, this is the main disaster. 940 00:39:54.660 --> 00:39:56.400 It's kind of like the argument about like, 941 00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.800 oh, you think Bitcoin's valuable? Well, what if 942 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.420 the world exploded? If the world exploded, I 943 00:40:02.420 --> 00:40:04.320 think would be concerned with different stuff, you 944 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.160 know? Yeah. It's like, what if the sun 945 00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:08.520 explodes, guys? It's like for some reason people 946 00:40:08.520 --> 00:40:11.260 think that there are investments out there where 947 00:40:11.260 --> 00:40:14.220 you can get away from the omnipotence of 948 00:40:14.220 --> 00:40:16.120 risk as if like you can walk into 949 00:40:16.120 --> 00:40:18.820 some domain where no risk is an existence 950 00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:22.540 anywhere. I think it's totally nonsensical, but happy 951 00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:24.260 to hear your guys' opinion. I don't know, 952 00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:25.920 Joe, you tell me, what do you think? 953 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.800 Give me the rundown here. Yeah, so I 954 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:29.600 agree. I mean, Chimoth, and I said this 955 00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:31.620 before you run the show, Adam, but, you 956 00:40:31.620 --> 00:40:33.660 know, Chimoth is basically just coming from the 957 00:40:33.660 --> 00:40:35.840 perspective of someone who's extremely salt. We've got 958 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.660 Dave back. It's just a great background for 959 00:40:37.660 --> 00:40:41.160 now. But, you know, it's, Chamaath, this is 960 00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:42.380 just coming from the perspective as someone who's 961 00:40:42.380 --> 00:40:44.220 extremely salty about selling a ton of Bitcoin 962 00:40:44.220 --> 00:40:46.140 for a company that didn't do as well 963 00:40:46.140 --> 00:40:48.440 over a decade ago. That's basically it. That's 964 00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:49.660 all. all that it is. You know, as 965 00:40:49.660 --> 00:40:51.480 early as three years ago, Chimov was saying 966 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.980 that Bitcoin will displace gold. And now Chimov 967 00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:56.360 is suddenly saying after he is invested in 968 00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.600 a ton of quantum companies that quantum will 969 00:40:59.600 --> 00:41:02.320 break Bitcoin, right? It's no coincidence at all. 970 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:04.000 You know, same exact thing with Nick Carter. 971 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.340 Nick Carter, great Bitcoin are largely. Great stuff. 972 00:41:06.340 --> 00:41:07.720 He's done for the space, but now he's 973 00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:10.420 pivoted toward the quantum foot. Don't you dare 974 00:41:10.420 --> 00:41:12.840 talk negatively about Nick? Don't you, not on 975 00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:15.100 this program. No, no, just on this on 976 00:41:15.100 --> 00:41:17.180 this one point, right? Very similar thing, right? 977 00:41:17.180 --> 00:41:19.180 He has a quantum, uh, company that he 978 00:41:19.180 --> 00:41:20.480 started or at the very least like a 979 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.700 Bitcoin quantum security company that he started and 980 00:41:22.700 --> 00:41:23.940 now all of a sudden He's talking about 981 00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.640 how existential this is, you know, for all 982 00:41:26.640 --> 00:41:27.720 the money, right? I don't mean to be 983 00:41:27.720 --> 00:41:29.760 some kind of tinfoil hack guy, but I 984 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.280 mean as far as Schumath is concerned, this 985 00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.640 guy invests in companies, right? He invested in 986 00:41:33.640 --> 00:41:34.660 a company and didn't perform as well as 987 00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.540 Bitcoin now he's salty about Bitcoin, right? It's 988 00:41:36.540 --> 00:41:39.580 and he was on a show called moonshot, 989 00:41:39.580 --> 00:41:41.820 right? When he said this, it's probably not 990 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:45.200 the most unbiased character despite his incredible track 991 00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:47.860 record, probably not the most unbiased character to 992 00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:49.400 be talking about this. Dave, what do you 993 00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.380 think about Chimoth saying Bitcoin is in jeopardy, 994 00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:54.280 the security Algo is in jeopardy, all these 995 00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:58.780 things from our favorite Canadian. What's he, what's 996 00:41:58.780 --> 00:42:03.920 he saying? Oh, he's on mute. Dave, Dave, 997 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:05.260 Dave, Dave, he's on mute. I can't believe 998 00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:07.460 this. I've done, I've done like a myriad 999 00:42:07.460 --> 00:42:09.460 of shows with Dave, guest shows. He's been 1000 00:42:09.460 --> 00:42:10.680 on my show. He's been on my show. 1001 00:42:10.680 --> 00:42:13.240 And still, he's got the outfit. But the 1002 00:42:13.240 --> 00:42:15.460 mic, the mic and the camera, we can't 1003 00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:17.620 figure this out. No, I can't hear you. 1004 00:42:17.620 --> 00:42:20.040 You're on mute. This is crazy. You'll figure 1005 00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:22.040 it. I love the Daniel Blue hat. That's 1006 00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:25.300 a solid look.! He's a Canadian, Adam. Because 1007 00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:28.580 the look is fantastic. He's a Canadian. I'm 1008 00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:30.100 going

to wear my Davey Crockettit hat next 1009 00:42:30.100 --> 00:42:34.540 year. I love it. Adam, since you're here, 1010 00:42:34.540 --> 00:42:37.020 we should, you know, I'd be remiss if 1011 00:42:37.020 --> 00:42:39.760 I didn't ask you about things going on 1012 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.480 between Bitcoin and stonks, given that you represent 1013 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.900 at least one stonk and probably feel highly 1014 00:42:44.900 --> 00:42:48.220 about a few stonks. decoupling from the NASDAQ, 1015 00:42:48.220 --> 00:42:50.820 maybe a little bit. But I got to 1016 00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:53.680 ask, you know, I've been saying for many 1017 00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:56.620 months. And Joe probably felt the same way, 1018 00:42:56.620 --> 00:42:59.580 even if you didn't say it, that, you 1019 00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:02.260 know, if I look at Strives' daily dividend 1020 00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:04.720 thing that they came out with, I don't 1021 00:43:04.720 --> 00:43:05.960 know, was that, you know, a few months 1022 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.140 ago at this point, that MSTR was going 1023 00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:10.720 to match it. They did. And now you 1024 00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:14.340 guys obviously are using the SATS ticker. I 1025 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:17.100 cannot believe in the. of our Lord 2026 1026 00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:18.820 people are not picking these things up if 1027 00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:20.420 for no other reason than to sell them 1028 00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:22.220 under the table back to you guys but 1029 00:43:22.220 --> 00:43:25.040 a story for another time tell me a 1030 00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:27.620 bit about number one you know what are 1031 00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:30.880 you guys thinking when you look at bitcoin 1032 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.920 versus nasdaq bitcoin versus stocks uh that's the 1033 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:36.300 first thing and then also if you can 1034 00:43:36.300 --> 00:43:38.140 i mean don't um don't blow up your 1035 00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:40.100 boardroom there but tell me a bit about 1036 00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:42.800 their rationale around going to dailies and what 1037 00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:44.880 you guys think of uh mike doing the 1038 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.320 same thing a few months later Yeah, I 1039 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.080 think it's great for the space. I do 1040 00:43:49.080 --> 00:43:52.200 want to touch on the Bitcoin correlations that 1041 00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:53.940 are happening lately because I think that they 1042 00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:56.920 are very bullish. Obviously, a strive. I don't 1043 00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:57.820 know if you guys have seen, but we 1044 00:43:57.820 --> 00:44:00.780 are coming public with essentially underwriting a 50 1045 00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:03.400 % Bitcoin Kager through the end of 2030. 1046 00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:05.220 And a lot of what plays into our 1047 00:44:05.220 --> 00:44:07.840 thesis is about, you know, Bitcoin is really 1048 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:11.680 seemingly kind of becoming a debasement asset for 1049 00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:14.480 maybe not exactly the first time in the 1050 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.560 assets history, but I would was just looking 1051 00:44:16.560 --> 00:44:18.140 at this. If you look since the beginning 1052 00:44:18.140 --> 00:44:20.600 of 2016 and you look at the 90 1053 00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:23.880 day correlation with gold, with equities, you can 1054 00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:25.800 look at the QQQ or the VTI, the 1055 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.200 S &P 500 versus like, you know, gold 1056 00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:30.720 and silver even. You can bundle them as 1057 00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:33.680 precious metals. Right now, gold is in the, 1058 00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:36.680 sorry, Bitcoin is in the 99th percentile of 1059 00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:39.320 90 day correlation with precious metals, which is 1060 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.140 very interesting that we're seeing this regime emerge 1061 00:44:42.140 --> 00:44:44.940 ever since June 30th to Bitcoin bottom. So 1062 00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:47.880 right now, our thesis is, you know, it 1063 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.740 seems like Bitcoin being this correlated to gold. 1064 00:44:50.740 --> 00:44:53.220 It doesn't help that gold also isn't performing 1065 00:44:53.220 --> 00:44:55.060 well right now, but it's interesting that more 1066 00:44:55.060 --> 00:44:57.320 so than any other time in its history, 1067 00:44:57.320 --> 00:44:59.280 Bitcoin and gold seem to be moving together, 1068 00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.140 which is very interesting. And that coupled with, 1069 00:45:02.140 --> 00:45:03.880 you know, as Bitcoiners, what we all think 1070 00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:06.480 is going to happen. Just monetary debasement, the 1071 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.640 sovereign debt crisis, you look at like a 1072 00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:12.380 falling DXY. If you put the DXY overlaid 1073 00:45:12.380 --> 00:45:14.360 with Bitcoin's price through the last 10 years, 1074 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.240 every single bull market is coincided. it with 1075 00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:18.440 a decline in the US dollar relative to 1076 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.200 other Fiat currencies. So we look at the 1077 00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:24.600 correlations very closely in terms of a risk 1078 00:45:24.600 --> 00:45:27.280 calculus. When do you decide to heavily amplify 1079 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:28.860 your balance sheet to help with those common 1080 00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:31.700 stock returns based on where we're at relative 1081 00:45:31.700 --> 00:45:33.920 to Bitcoin price and gold and the correlations, 1082 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.900 et cetera. But I think that the daily 1083 00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:38.340 dividends from strategy are a really positive development 1084 00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:40.660 for the sector. I think that it's definitely 1085 00:45:40.660 --> 00:45:42.160 going to help with

the volatility. You're not 1086 00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.960 going to have those, obviously the volatility, arbitrators, 1087 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.400 coming in before X dividend dates as much. 1088 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.640 It should help with the volatility smoothing. And 1089 00:45:50.640 --> 00:45:52.160 I think it will make the other preps 1090 00:45:52.160 --> 00:45:54.960 a lot more ideal. I don't think people 1091 00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.440 like waiting three months for a dividend. I 1092 00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.860 think that we are increasingly going into a 1093 00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:04.960 more casino gamified market with prediction markets and 1094 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.980 24 -7 stock trading, tokenized stocks. And I 1095 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.240 think that in terms of an infrastructure that 1096 00:46:10.240 --> 00:46:12.920 can be built on top of daily dividends, 1097 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:14.320 that's going to be a big boon for 1098 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.420 strategy. So I think it's overall. for the 1099 00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:19.620 sector and competition is great. So happy to 1100 00:46:19.620 --> 00:46:21.560 see it. I love it. Are you concerned 1101 00:46:21.560 --> 00:46:23.160 that Sailor seems to be getting his suits 1102 00:46:23.160 --> 00:46:24.760 tailored at a strip mall? You don't have 1103 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:26.580 to answer that. Dave, where do you come 1104 00:46:26.580 --> 00:46:29.860 down on the daily dividends and the stocks 1105 00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:34.580 and the relationship between, I guess, like, I 1106 00:46:34.580 --> 00:46:35.800 think, I think Adam is right. This is 1107 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:37.440 good for the space. I think Adam is 1108 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.740 right that there's a lot of Bitcoiners now 1109 00:46:39.740 --> 00:46:41.840 sort of looking at the inevitable, you know, 1110 00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:43.100 I think we all agree on that. I 1111 00:46:43.100 --> 00:46:44.820 would guess there's, you know, many of us 1112 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.440 think that this is an inevitable outcome. You 1113 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.780 know, people are still buying MSTR. I said 1114 00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:51.960 on this show a little while ago that 1115 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:53.980 I started buying MSTR again, and I know 1116 00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:56.660 Walker, who's not here, is an ASST plus 1117 00:46:56.660 --> 00:46:59.020 MSTR, and I know there's many of those 1118 00:46:59.020 --> 00:47:01.180 investors out there too. Dave, you've been maybe 1119 00:47:01.180 --> 00:47:06.940 more bearish than most on the Treasury equities, 1120 00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:08.460 the Bitcoin equities, where do you come down 1121 00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:10.300 on stuff like the daily dividend, on stuff 1122 00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:12.980 like the MSTR, recent move? Like, what do 1123 00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:15.620 you think? Yeah, I'm not bearish to be. 1124 00:47:15.620

--> 00:47:20.760 clearer. The, the, my criticisms of the Treasury 1125 00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.160 companies and the ETFs are the same, it's 1126 00:47:23.160 --> 00:47:25.500 that you're putting the coins in the, in 1127 00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:26.860 the custody of the U .S. government for 1128 00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:30.440 that eventual 60102. But in terms of, you 1129 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:33.800 know, assuming that these companies exist, more products 1130 00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:38.440 means more surface for price discovery. So ultimately, 1131 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.280 it's a good thing. It's going to, you 1132 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:43.240 know, further the fact that Bitcoin is really 1133 00:47:43.240 --> 00:47:45.720 the the most robust market in the world 1134 00:47:45.720 --> 00:47:47.240 in a lot of ways. You know, it's 1135 00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:49.620 the only thing that trades 24 hours a 1136 00:47:49.620 --> 00:47:51.940 day in every country in the world. And 1137 00:47:51.940 --> 00:47:54.220 the more price discovery that we get, the 1138 00:47:54.220 --> 00:47:58.180 better. And the more that the mind virus 1139 00:47:58.180 --> 00:48:01.780 of Bitcoin infects Wall Street, the more Bitcoin 1140 00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:05.860 moves to becoming considered a pristine form of 1141 00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:08.060 collateral, which I think that's the endgame, is 1142 00:48:08.060 --> 00:48:10.620 that everything that all of the suits are 1143 00:48:10.620 --> 00:48:13.440 building is going to use Bitcoin as collateral, 1144 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.880 And ultimately, we're going to see that with 1145 00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:18.300 nation states as well. And that's kind of 1146 00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:21.040 the steps that I see this leading towards 1147 00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:25.060 is, you know, it's, and circling back, whether 1148 00:48:25.060 --> 00:48:27.760 it's Chamath talking about gold or about Bitcoin 1149 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.900 or the guys coming out with their alchemy, 1150 00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:34.300 you know, news about gold, in all these 1151 00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:37.020 cases, it's somebody talking their book, right? It's, 1152 00:48:37.020 --> 00:48:39.760 it's much more likely that Chamath is wanting 1153 00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:41.560 to tank the price of Bitcoin as much 1154 00:48:41.560 --> 00:48:43.740 as he can because he wants to acquire 1155 00:48:43.740 --> 00:48:45.180 as much as he can at as low 1156 00:48:45.180 --> 00:48:49.240 as possible a price he can. So, yeah, 1157 00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:51.880 I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a, 1158 00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:53.900 I'm not a, I'm not a huge fan 1159 00:48:53.900 --> 00:48:55.640 at the end of the day of every 1160 00:48:55.640 --> 00:49:00.280 Wall Street product tying themselves into Bitcoin. But 1161 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.380 if Wall Street's going to be there, more 1162 00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:06.400 products is better. Okay, understood.

Adam, there's a 1163 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.320 question in the chat here about the, hold 1164 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:11.900 on, someone's typing here. Got the wrong one 1165 00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:14.860 there. about calling a 15 % yield versus 1166 00:49:14.860 --> 00:49:17.220 calling a 15 % percent, excuse me, per 1167 00:49:17.220 --> 00:49:20.100 share. Do you have a comment on that? 1168 00:49:20.100 --> 00:49:21.560 I mean, again, like, I realize there's things 1169 00:49:21.560 --> 00:49:23.380 you can and can't say, but I'd be 1170 00:49:23.380 --> 00:49:25.080 unfair to leave some of these questions behind 1171 00:49:25.080 --> 00:49:27.580 if the chat's like, you know, embracing asking 1172 00:49:27.580 --> 00:49:30.660 you. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. First, I'll touch 1173 00:49:30.660 --> 00:49:32.200 on what Dave said. I agree. I think 1174 00:49:32.200 --> 00:49:34.000 that I'm one of the people in the 1175 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.980 space that sees the risk of giving up 1176 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:38.920 your Bitcoin and self -custody. That's why I'm 1177 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.080 pretty stridently anti -EF, actually, because you're a 1178 00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:43.340 lot of. you're paying a fee for another 1179 00:49:43.340 --> 00:49:45.360 entity to hold your Bitcoin. And I don't 1180 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.100 like that. I don't like the idea of 1181 00:49:47.100 --> 00:49:50.240 taking on additional risk to underperform Bitcoin itself. 1182 00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:52.000 I think that's nonsensical. So I think we 1183 00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.440 can find some common ground there. But yeah, 1184 00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:56.080 the 15 % fixed rate is just a 1185 00:49:56.080 --> 00:49:59.140 15 % on a $100 stated amount. So 1186 00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:01.380 if you were able to buy the equity 1187 00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:03.540 when it's trading it cheaper than $100, then 1188 00:50:03.540 --> 00:50:05.540 your effective yield would be higher. So think 1189 00:50:05.540 --> 00:50:08.900 of it as 15 % out of $100. 1190 00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:11.200 But if the stock is at discount, like 1191 00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:13.620 if it's at $90, for example, then the 1192 00:50:13.620 --> 00:50:17.180 effective yield would be higher. So obviously, that 1193 00:50:17.180 --> 00:50:19.560 can invite in some people looking for that 1194 00:50:19.560 --> 00:50:21.440 arbitrage. Maybe they would want to sell after 1195 00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:24.760 some capital appreciation. But we are intentional with 1196 00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:28.200 SATs where we're not necessarily coming out with 1197 00:50:28.200 --> 00:50:30.100 making it try to trade at a certain 1198 00:50:30.100 --> 00:50:32.520 trading range. That's where it's differentiated with SETA. 1199 00:50:32.520 --> 00:50:34.620 We're actually not coming out saying this is 1200 00:50:34.620 --> 00:50:36.800 a variable dividend. We're not going to change 1201 00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:40.020 it. It's 15 % on that $100 state. 1202 00:50:40.020 --> 00:50:42.480 amount forever. Now, depending on when you buy 1203 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.120 it, if it's above 100 or below 100, 1204 00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:47.760 your effective yield might be different. Love it. 1205 00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.880 Great answer. Maybe one last question on this 1206 00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:51.060 topic, and then we'll move on to the 1207 00:50:51.060 --> 00:50:54.720 cold card issue, obviously still somehow marinating in 1208 00:50:54.720 --> 00:50:58.580 the ether there. This bit about U .S. 1209 00:50:58.580 --> 00:51:01.460 inflation, obviously, being higher, which will lead eventually 1210 00:51:01.460 --> 00:51:03.380 to higher bond rates. And, you know, we've 1211 00:51:03.380 --> 00:51:04.460 talked a little bit about the five year 1212 00:51:04.460 --> 00:51:05.520 and 10 year. Joe, I don't know if 1213 00:51:05.520 --> 00:51:07.100 you know what those rates are right now. 1214 00:51:07.100 --> 00:51:09.820 But my guess is they're creeping toward this 1215 00:51:09.820 --> 00:51:12.480 kind of 6, 7 % range on the 1216 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.280 longer end. 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7 1217 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:17.520 on the longer end. And so, like, what 1218 00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:20.300 is the likelihood you think, Adam, that whether 1219 00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:23.380 it's you guys or Sailor or whoever, you 1220 00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:25.100 know, are you guys thinking about this? You're 1221 00:51:25.100 --> 00:51:28.980 competing with, like, U .S. government bond yields 1222 00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:30.960 a little bit? Like, the money market is 1223 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.700 actually thinking, okay, so I want to invest 1224 00:51:33.700 --> 00:51:36.840 in Adam and Matt and punter. Do I 1225 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:38.840 want to invest in Mike and, you know, 1226 00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.320 Big Dong Fong, or do I want to 1227 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.560 go to the 10 year or the 30 1228 00:51:43.560 --> 00:51:45.220 year? Like, is this something you guys consider? 1229 00:51:45.220 --> 00:51:46.740 Is this something that comes up at your 1230 00:51:46.740 --> 00:51:51.860 mahogany table? Yeah, the mahogany table. I wish 1231 00:51:51.860 --> 00:51:53.400 we had that, but we're all remote. That'd 1232 00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:56.200 be nice. Yeah, it's something that we talk 1233 00:51:56.200 --> 00:51:57.780 about very often. It was actually part of 1234 00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:01.260 our investor presentation where we are expecting there 1235 00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:04.100 to be a policy response zone, which is 1236 00:52:04.100 --> 00:52:06.460 funny. we started talking about this kind of 1237 00:52:06.460 --> 00:52:08.340 through the end of this decade. We expect 1238 00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:10.620 bond yields to rise. And what was really 1239 00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:12.220 funny is over the past three weeks, we've 1240 00:52:12.220 -->

00:52:14.300 had to update that slide with those bond 1241 00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:16.560 yields rising. It's like, oh, well, maybe the 1242 00:52:16.560 --> 00:52:19.240 policy response zone is at a 5 .3 1243 00:52:19.240 --> 00:52:21.260 % on the 10 year right now. And 1244 00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:23.880 what's funny is that clearly this week, we've 1245 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.540 seen a flight to treasuries. And we're seeing 1246 00:52:26.540 --> 00:52:30.140 this essentially, you know, this tech stock selloff 1247 00:52:30.140 --> 00:52:32.280 where people are actually going back into treasuries. 1248 00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.680 And I think it's totally insane. saying. I'm 1249 00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:37.440 shocked that people are buying treasuries right now. 1250 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.600 I think by now, it's like if you 1251 00:52:39.600 --> 00:52:42.000 don't understand that, you know, you're going to 1252 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.600 get absolutely eviscerated by inflation by buying these 1253 00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.720 things. I don't know what will save people. 1254 00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:48.460 Joe, I know that you're the macro expert, 1255 00:52:48.460 --> 00:52:50.720 but what do you think about this flight 1256 00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:52.400 to treasuries this week a little bit where 1257 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.820 the yield dropped like, I don't know, 30 1258 00:52:54.820 --> 00:52:57.640 basis points or so. Yeah, so it's, you 1259 00:52:57.640 --> 00:52:59.160 know, I had filmed a live call for 1260 00:52:59.160 --> 00:53:01.760 my group. Settle plug, by the way, if 1261 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:03.420 you want the Bitcoin terminal, what you're seeing 1262 00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:06.080 right now. Basically, the reason I made this 1263 00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:07.840 was because I lost access to my free 1264 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.700 Bloomberg terminal after five years, and so I 1265 00:53:09.700 --> 00:53:12.000 just had, I went in and recreated the 1266 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:13.480 whole thing. So this is basically all the 1267 00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:15.740 function of a normal Bloomberg terminal, but with 1268 00:53:15.740 --> 00:53:17.540 a ton of other Bitcoin stuff. You can 1269 00:53:17.540 --> 00:53:20.180 see it like massive flight to safety bid, 1270 00:53:20.180 --> 00:53:22.420 you know, equity is selling off, obviously selling 1271 00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:23.900 off harder than Bitcoin is interesting. You go 1272 00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:25.600 over the last week, Bitcoin is down about 1273 00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:29.040 0 .8%. Gold is down 4%. So really 1274 00:53:29.040 --> 00:53:31.520 interesting stuff, but you, to Adam's point, you 1275 00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:33.300 are starting to see gold and Bitcoin become 1276 00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:35.740 a little bit more correlated. as debasement becomes 1277 00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:37.820 a bit of a fear. Also, my contention 1278 00:53:37.820 --> 00:53:38.940 at the start of this year was that 1279 00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:40.160 it was going to be a risk off 1280 00:53:40.160 --> 00:53:43.100 year, but equities didn't really get the memo. 1281 00:53:43.100 --> 00:53:44.940 And so now, you know, the reason Bitcoin 1282 00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:47.220 is selling off to a lesser degree than 1283 00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:48.800 equities is because most of the air has 1284 00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.620 already been let out of Bitcoin, but not 1285 00:53:50.620 --> 00:53:52.660 from the equity trade yet. And so you 1286 00:53:52.660 --> 00:53:53.800 start to see a little bit of weakness 1287 00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:55.540 in equities, which is long overdue. You're starting 1288 00:53:55.540 --> 00:53:58.040 to see a bit in the Treasury market. 1289 00:53:58.040 --> 00:54:00.100 Ten years is falling off the face of 1290 00:54:00.100 --> 00:54:02.920 the earth, you know, down to sub 5%, 1291 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.820 30 year down to 5%. 3%, the reason 1292 00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:07.780 you're seeing this is a massive deceleration in 1293 00:54:07.780 --> 00:54:10.340 growth expectations. Oil and the 10 -year are 1294 00:54:10.340 --> 00:54:12.820 sort of diverging a little bit, which doesn't 1295 00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:16.800 typically happen. Basically, what I'm reading this as 1296 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.920 is the 10 -year obviously represents growth and 1297 00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:22.760 inflation expectations with oil now challenging this year's 1298 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:24.740 highs. In my mind, that's sort of the 1299 00:54:24.740 --> 00:54:27.760 market pricing in, okay, massive growth slowdown as 1300 00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:31.500 a result of inflation, therefore, in all likelihood 1301 00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:32.620 rates are going to come down. They're going 1302 00:54:32.620 --> 00:54:34.340 to print a ton of money. might as 1303 00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:36.060 well buy treasuries now while the going is 1304 00:54:36.060 --> 00:54:38.100 good. And so that's generally what you're seeing. 1305 00:54:38.100 --> 00:54:39.740 We're sort of late cycle where all of 1306 00:54:39.740 --> 00:54:41.520 these fears are coming to a boiling point 1307 00:54:41.520 --> 00:54:45.780 and everything are absolutely terrified. Everybody's absolutely terrified. 1308 00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:47.400 And people are saying, all right, time to 1309 00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:49.640 pile into treasuries. And who could blame them, 1310 00:54:49.640 --> 00:54:51.800 right? I mean, for an asset that has 1311 00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:53.360 had in the last several years being near 1312 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:55.680 zero, offering five and a half percent for 1313 00:54:55.680 --> 00:54:57.540 30 years, yes, please, if you're a moron, 1314 00:54:57.540 --> 00:55:01.540 I take that too. Sad, sad. I want 1315 00:55:01.540 --> 00:55:04.100 to bring up the cold card. thing so 1316 00:55:04.100 --> 00:55:05.480 i'm gonna try and figure out how

to 1317 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.180 like take joe's screen off and put mine 1318 00:55:07.180 --> 00:55:09.920 back on there it is Dave you are 1319 00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.020 canadian like me good canadian boys obviously our 1320 00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:16.660 guy former guy i guess and bk i 1321 00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:18.380 don't know what to say about this redolfo 1322 00:55:18.380 --> 00:55:22.560 um now in a involved in legal proceeding 1323 00:55:22.560 --> 00:55:26.320 in Toronto about the coin kite hack vulnerability 1324 00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:30.140 exposure whatever um you know you mentioned earlier 1325 00:55:30.140 --> 00:55:32.420 keeping your coins offline no longer fair game 1326 00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:33.980 no longer the be all end all of 1327 00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:37.180 security. I haven't reviewed the specifics of the 1328 00:55:37.180 --> 00:55:41.240 case, but I am curious about what, um, 1329 00:55:41.240 --> 00:55:43.840 what you guys are thinking about this. Dave, 1330 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.400 I'll start with you obviously. To me, I 1331 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:48.620 don't, I don't think cold card, I'll be 1332 00:55:48.620 --> 00:55:51.000 honest, like hold your tomatoes. I don't think 1333 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.980 they have any liability here. Uh, their, their 1334 00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:58.180 terms are pretty clear, number one. And I 1335 00:55:58.180 --> 00:56:00.640 would also suggest people go look at the 1336 00:56:00.640 --> 00:56:04.940 expectation of, you know, open source software and 1337 00:56:04.940 --> 00:56:08.140 stuff like this in their legal documents. They 1338 00:56:08.140 --> 00:56:11.740 haven't changed surprisingly in many years, even after 1339 00:56:11.740 --> 00:56:13.120 the hack, so they didn't make an attempt 1340 00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:17.660 to wash some of that stuff away. Dave, 1341 00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:18.780 is there a case here, is there not 1342 00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:20.340 a case here? What are you hearing? Tell 1343 00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.480 me something about this. Yeah, I mean, I 1344 00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.400 haven't dug into the specifics of what they're 1345 00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:28.920 filing either, but there was negligence here, for 1346 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:32.120 sure. They're, you know, the, the, the, the 1347 00:56:32.120 --> 00:56:36.400 hubris that led to the split and the 1348 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.480 whole foundation devices thing and, you know, they 1349 00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:43.460 changed all their dependencies based on that. Like, 1350 00:56:43.460 --> 00:56:45.600 there was a choice that was made that 1351 00:56:45.600 --> 00:56:47.980 lost a lot of people money. And so 1352 00:56:47.980 --> 00:56:50.100 in that sense, I can see a reason 1353 00:56:50.100 --> 00:56:52.160 that they're, you know, they could find some 1354 00:56:52.160 --> 00:56:54.500 liability. But at the same time, I can 1355 00:56:54.500 --> 00:56:56.300 also see the flip side where it's like, 1356 00:56:56.300 --> 00:56:58.680 you know, there are a million posts out 1357 00:56:58.680 --> 00:57:00.940 there of Rodolfo telling people don't generate your 1358 00:57:00.940 --> 00:57:03.800 keys using the cold card, right? Like, that 1359 00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:08.540 that was a feature of convenience that they 1360 00:57:08.540 --> 00:57:11.600 didn't really see how much of a risk 1361 00:57:11.600 --> 00:57:14.520 it was going to bring into the product. 1362 00:57:14.520 --> 00:57:16.580 And, yeah, so I don't know what the, 1363 00:57:16.580 --> 00:57:18.500 what they'll find. You know, the Canadian courts 1364 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.380 are such a crapshoot anyway, right? Like, it's 1365 00:57:20.380 --> 00:57:22.160 not really going to be about a search 1366 00:57:22.160 --> 00:57:24.640 for truth or whatnot. It's, it's going to 1367 00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:27.580 be a liberal judge put there serving an 1368 00:57:27.580 --> 00:57:29.900 agenda of some kind. And it really may 1369 00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:33.780 depend more on who's actually suing him. than 1370 00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:35.680 the facts of the case at the end 1371 00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.180 of the day. But the one thing that 1372 00:57:37.180 --> 00:57:39.080 I wanted to point out that I've kind 1373 00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:41.820 of realized after the fact, like, Gold Card 1374 00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:43.900 was like, it was like our pinnacle of 1375 00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:46.780 safety, right? It was like what every hardcore 1376 00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:49.800 Bitcoiner recommended to other hardcore bitcorner. It was 1377 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:53.160 kind of the largest target in terms of 1378 00:57:53.160 --> 00:57:57.280 taking down something from within the Bitcoin ecosystem. 1379 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.700 And I think the fallout from that was 1380 00:58:01.700 --> 00:58:03.340 actually kind of a policy. positive thing because 1381 00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:04.980 you had this Bitcoin Red team spring up 1382 00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:07.860 and really check everything else and thousands of 1383 00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:10.180 vulnerabilities were found. It was going to be 1384 00:58:10.180 --> 00:58:12.740 something, right? They were going to catch somebody's 1385 00:58:12.740 --> 00:58:17.360 wallet doing something lazy. And it just so 1386 00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:19.440 happened to be that one. And, you know, 1387 00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:24.340 the idea that they might need to pay 1388 00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:26.140 someone for mistakes that they made doesn't seem 1389 00:58:26.140 --> 00:58:28.720 crazy to me, but, you know, I don't 1390 00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:32.300 even, I, based on how disconnected from reality, 1391 00:58:32.300 --> 00:58:33.840 the Canadian courts are i can't even make 1392 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.000 like a reasonable prediction on how that will 1393 00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:40.900 go Adam where do you come

down yeah 1394 00:58:40.900 --> 00:58:42.840 honestly i'm pretty unfamiliar with the court case 1395 00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.000 in particular even more unfamiliar with the canadian 1396 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.600 courts i'm like picturing a a a canadian 1397 00:58:47.600 --> 00:58:49.800 a few good men it looks like they 1398 00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:51.900 all look like the judges look like dave 1399 00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:54.000 so they all wear man if we had 1400 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.660 if we had uh you you must own 1401 00:58:56.660 --> 00:58:59.140 a fur hat and you must be able 1402 00:58:59.140 --> 00:59:01.820 to bench 225 as the requirements to sit 1403 00:59:01.820 --> 00:59:03.080 on the bench, we would have a very 1404 00:59:03.080 --> 00:59:06.520 reasonable court system. and side point on the 1405 00:59:06.520 --> 00:59:07.300 half. I think physical strength would be a 1406 00:59:07.300 --> 00:59:11.160 great prerequisite for a more just justice system. 1407 00:59:11.160 --> 00:59:15.580 I think that would. Absolutely. Yeah, it's if 1408 00:59:15.580 --> 00:59:17.520 it was, if you were required to have 1409 00:59:17.520 --> 00:59:21.600 some way to demonstrate low time preference, then 1410 00:59:21.600 --> 00:59:23.960 it would validate your decision making for sure. 1411 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:25.780 But I have to point out on the 1412 00:59:25.780 --> 00:59:28.680 fur hat that the the day that Canada 1413 00:59:28.680 --> 00:59:31.280 died is one of two, things. There's two 1414 00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.320 moments in history. One is when they got 1415 00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.800 rid of Don Cherry, when they canceled him 1416 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.780 for being himself, and the other was the 1417 00:59:40.780 --> 00:59:43.240 day that the Hudson Bay Company stopped selling 1418 00:59:43.240 --> 00:59:47.420 fur. They went for 350 years. The oldest 1419 00:59:47.420 --> 00:59:50.880 company in North America founded on fur trading, 1420 00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.360 and in 2022, they stopped selling fur, and 1421 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:57.140 by 2025 they were bankrupt. 2026, the Eaton 1422 00:59:57.140 --> 00:59:59.560 Center Hudson Bay Company is now a storage 1423 00:59:59.560 --> 01:00:01.180 unit. I don't know if you know that. 1424 01:00:01.180 --> 01:00:02.800 I live, you know, about 45 minutes from 1425 01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:04.500 Toronto, so I can confirm that for you. 1426 01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:07.880 Anyway, Adam, the coin kite cold card, and 1427 01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:11.040 maybe like your broader thoughts on custody for 1428 01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:14.600 Bitcoiners. You guys are not necessarily, I don't 1429 01:00:14.600 --> 01:00:15.700 want for words in your mouth, but you're 1430 01:00:15.700 --> 01:00:17.760 not necessarily a replacement in a lot of 1431 01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:19.720 people's minds for self -custody Bitcoin in the 1432 01:00:19.720 --> 01:00:23.980 way like MSTR, Ibit, whatever are. Like, talk 1433 01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:25.160 to me about this. You guys obviously talk 1434 01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:26.400 to investors, as you said there. What is 1435 01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:28.500 the, what is the thinking out there for 1436 01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:31.380 corporates, for boards, and, terms of custody these 1437 01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:34.120 days. That's a great question. And I definitely 1438 01:00:34.120 --> 01:00:35.760 agree with you that there is no replacement 1439 01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.800 for Bitcoin and self -custody. Risk is omnipotent, 1440 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.780 like I just said earlier. And you are 1441 01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:44.160 taking additional counterparty risk by buying equities and 1442 01:00:44.160 --> 01:00:46.160 even like banking with a traditional bank or 1443 01:00:46.160 --> 01:00:48.040 having a broker, these are these things that 1444 01:00:48.040 --> 01:00:51.420 just you can't get. I mean, sorry, it's 1445 01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:53.360 just reality. Like, you can't replace that. Bitcoin 1446 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:55.640 is a bearer asset. We all know this. 1447 01:00:55.640 --> 01:00:57.580 Like, there is no true replacement. But in 1448 01:00:57.580 --> 01:01:00.500 terms of overall risk, this definitely is. something 1449 01:01:00.500 --> 01:01:02.980 that we talk a lot about with institutions 1450 01:01:02.980 --> 01:01:05.060 and right now like we are vetting all 1451 01:01:05.060 --> 01:01:07.460 of our custodians where we actually just had 1452 01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:09.240 a call recently I think it was two 1453 01:01:09.240 --> 01:01:11.900 days ago with a variety of custodians where 1454 01:01:11.900 --> 01:01:14.480 we're actually having them walk through how do 1455 01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:17.540 you guys generate entropy for your wallets because 1456 01:01:17.540 --> 01:01:19.980 we obviously saw this happen over the summer 1457 01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:22.220 and we want to essentially dot our eyes 1458 01:01:22.220 --> 01:01:24.180 cross or T's regarding the entire safety thing 1459 01:01:24.180 --> 01:01:26.460 so it's something that's top of mind and 1460 01:01:26.460 --> 01:01:28.760 uh yeah it's a real shame that this 1461 01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.680 happened over the summer. Regarding the court case, 1462 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:33.160 I just wonder to the degree that there 1463 01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.880 is liability there. I think that's the biggest 1464 01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.260 question mark. But I'm excited to hear more 1465 01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:40.960 because watching this play out some interesting drama, 1466 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.980 that's for sure. Couldn't happen to a nicer 1467 01:01:42.980 --> 01:01:45.060 guy. Joe, do you have any comments on 1468 01:01:45.060 --> 01:01:50.580 self -custody versus the ETFs versus the likelihood 1469 01:01:50.580 --> 01:01:52.740 that a new participant may be top of 1470 01:01:52.740 -->

01:01:57.020 funnel type goes toward a ticker symbol rather 1471 01:01:57.020 --> 01:02:00.520 than a hard. hardware wallet. Yeah, I mean, 1472 01:02:00.520 --> 01:02:03.360 I'd say that the ETS are useful in 1473 01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:05.500 my mind, as far as adoption is concerned, 1474 01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:06.980 they hold a ton of Bitcoin. And I 1475 01:02:06.980 --> 01:02:10.000 think that over the last couple of shows 1476 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:11.080 that I've done over the last couple of 1477 01:02:11.080 --> 01:02:12.440 weeks have kind of railed against the paper 1478 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:15.740 Bitcoin argument quite a bit because of just 1479 01:02:15.740 --> 01:02:20.380 the rigorous auditing involved with these vehicles. But 1480 01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:22.700 as far as like sovereign entities are concerned, 1481 01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:24.680 I've long said that ETSs are going to 1482 01:02:24.680 --> 01:02:26.720 naturally push people to holding spot Bitcoin because 1483 01:02:26.720 --> 01:02:27.800 you sort of come for the money, go 1484 01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:29.980 up, you for the sovereignty that it provides 1485 01:02:29.980 --> 01:02:31.300 you. I mean, certainly that was the case 1486 01:02:31.300 --> 01:02:33.660 for me. I was just a stupid 17 1487 01:02:33.660 --> 01:02:35.280 -year -old, but way too much money. And, 1488 01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:37.060 you know, I bought for a number to 1489 01:02:37.060 --> 01:02:38.440 go up and I stayed for everything else. 1490 01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:40.800 And so that seems to be the case 1491 01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:42.720 elsewhere as well. Charles Schwab and others are 1492 01:02:42.720 --> 01:02:45.100 now launching the ability to redeem your ETF, 1493 01:02:45.100 --> 01:02:46.380 four -spot Bitcoin, and then also move it 1494 01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:48.380 off platform. It's quite cool. So I think 1495 01:02:48.380 --> 01:02:50.160 we'll see a similar path. And sovereigns that 1496 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:53.020 are very serious, in my mind, will be 1497 01:02:53.020 --> 01:02:57.260 taking self -custody to some degree. Obviously, it 1498 01:02:57.260 --> 01:03:01.600 gets more complicated. the larger you are as 1499 01:03:01.600 --> 01:03:02.800 an entity, but I tend to think that 1500 01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:05.740 that's the path, at least long term, for 1501 01:03:05.740 --> 01:03:07.420 these entities. Whether or not they go the 1502 01:03:07.420 --> 01:03:09.400 ETF route first remains to be seen anything. 1503 01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:11.260 That's very likely, but I think self -custody 1504 01:03:11.260 --> 01:03:13.400 is the ultimate destination. I like that a 1505 01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:15.460 lot. Joe, you got to go because you 1506 01:03:15.460 --> 01:03:17.160 have family obligations. Do you want to tell 1507 01:03:17.160 --> 01:03:19.440 people anything before you leave? Maybe another shameless 1508 01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:23.180 plug for that dashboard there or like tell 1509 01:03:23.180 --> 01:03:25.240 people what you bench, whatever. You can do 1510 01:03:25.240 --> 01:03:27.860 whatever you want. Okay, so I bench 285 1511 01:03:27.860 --> 01:03:30.200 on incline now because I'm big and fat. 1512 01:03:30.200 --> 01:03:33.340 Inclined 285 is, yeah. So, well, the thing 1513 01:03:33.340 --> 01:03:34.940 is, yeah, well, thank you. Well, the thing 1514 01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:36.360 is what I just do! Inclined because it 1515 01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:37.740 hits the rest of the chest as well, 1516 01:03:37.740 --> 01:03:39.120 and it looks like a really nice shelf. 1517 01:03:39.120 --> 01:03:40.520 But at the expense, I no longer have 1518 01:03:40.520 --> 01:03:43.640 visible abs and I'm very fat. You could 1519 01:03:43.640 --> 01:03:46.100 find me before the winter Joe, before the 1520 01:03:46.100 --> 01:03:48.900 winter. We'll call it the winter ball. He's 1521 01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:50.320 got his Adam, he just had his first 1522 01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:51.400 kid. He's going to be, he's going to 1523 01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:53.160 find that things get much more difficult from 1524 01:03:53.160 --> 01:03:54.800 here. He's like in his mid -20s, just 1525 01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:56.780 at his first kid. This is nothing. Just 1526 01:03:56.780 --> 01:03:57.640 waiting a couple of I just had my 1527 01:03:57.640 --> 01:03:59.700 first one. I think a couple of years. 1528 01:03:59.700 --> 01:04:02.040 Adam didn't gain a pound. No, no, no, 1529 01:04:02.040 --> 01:04:03.580 I have. I have. It's bad. I haven't 1530 01:04:03.580 --> 01:04:05.060 been in good shape like in four years, 1531 01:04:05.060 --> 01:04:06.000 Joe. I know what it was like when 1532 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:08.420 I was your age, man. It's rough. Yeah, 1533 01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:09.900 well, you know, you can find my YouTube 1534 01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:12.480 channel, uh, Joe Consortium everywhere at Joe Consortium. 1535 01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.960 Pleasuredier. Pleasure speaking with you boys as always. 1536 01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:15.100 And Adam, you got to come on more 1537 01:04:15.100 --> 01:04:16.920 often. This is fun. Yeah. Yeah, I love 1538 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.440 the show. So if I'm open as a 1539 01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:20.180 guest, then by all means, I'd love to. 1540 01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:21.680 Okay, we're going to break. We'll be right 1541 01:04:21.680 --> 01:04:23.740 back. We got one more segment, which includes 1542 01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:25.760 a video that Ben and Nathan just sent 1543 01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:27.220 me about what they're doing instead of being 1544 01:04:27.220 --> 01:04:28.640 here with you guys, make it that what 1545 01:04:28.640 --> 01:04:31.420 you will. See in a couple minutes. You 1546 01:04:31.420 --> 01:04:32.700 already know that you can't leave your seed 1547 01:04:32.700 --> 01:04:34.060 phrase on paper. It needs to be on 1548 01:04:34.060 --> 01:04:35.340 metal. What you might

not know is that 1549 01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:36.800 more Bitcoin has actually been lost and been 1550 01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:38.700 stolen. More than 10 times the amount ever 1551 01:04:38.700 --> 01:04:40.500 hacked, gone because someone lost their keys. Your 1552 01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:42.900 biggest risk isn't some shadowy supercoder, it's time 1553 01:04:42.900 --> 01:04:45.440 in the elements. That's why Stampseed uses titanium. 1554 01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:47.280 Titanium never rusts. Doesn't matter if it's a 1555 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:48.620 raging housefire at the bottom of the ocean 1556 01:04:48.620 --> 01:04:50.320 or sitting at store for 50 years, titanium 1557 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:52.300 doesn't care. One salt piece, nothing to come 1558 01:04:52.300 --> 01:04:54.060 apart that you hammer in. By the stamp 1559 01:04:54.060 --> 01:04:55.200 seed kit and as your set of evolves, 1560 01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:56.800 you just grab more plates. Stamp it once 1561 01:04:56.800 --> 01:04:58.520 and never worry about your backup again. And 1562 01:04:58.520 --> 01:05:00.160 for the advanced users, there's the clear code 1563 01:05:00.160 --> 01:05:01.960 set. Every letter, number, and symbol of your 1564 01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.340 full keyboard, no two characters alike, your passphrase, 1565 01:05:04.340 --> 01:05:06.340 your descriptor backed up on titanium. This is 1566 01:05:06.340 --> 01:05:08.120 what I personally use and have for years, 1567 01:05:08.120 --> 01:05:09.860 so stop leaving yourself exposed. They're giving you 1568 01:05:09.860 --> 01:05:12.080 15 % off with promo code Bitcast so 1569 01:05:12.080 --> 01:05:13.760 that you finally get this done today. Click 1570 01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:15.120 the link in the description down below or 1571 01:05:15.120 --> 01:05:17.260 scan the QR code on the screen. 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We should talk about the, there's some 1598 01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:12.200 other stuff on the docket, obviously, but we 1599 01:06:12.200 --> 01:06:14.380 may as well talk about like Alberta separation. 1600 01:06:14.380 --> 01:06:15.220 Adam, I don't know how much you know 1601 01:06:15.220 --> 01:06:17.980 about this or care about this, but we 1602 01:06:17.980 --> 01:06:19.840 just had a vote. vote up here earlier 1603 01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.420 in the week where allegedly, allegedly we have 1604 01:06:23.420 --> 01:06:24.800 the same problem with mail -ins that you 1605 01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:28.480 guys do. Only 20 or something percent, Dave, 1606 01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:29.660 you can correct me on the number, voted 1607 01:06:29.660 --> 01:06:34.060 to secede or at least begin the begin 1608 01:06:34.060 --> 01:06:38.380 the process for secession from Canada and start 1609 01:06:38.380 --> 01:06:40.820 thinking about becoming independent. I'm necessarily joining the 1610 01:06:40.820 --> 01:06:43.480 United States, but becoming an independent province, independent 1611 01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:47.360 state, whatever. Dave, I'll go to you first, 1612 01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:50.640 since you're obviously, among other things, like, what 1613 01:06:50.640 --> 01:06:53.220 do you think happen with that vote? Let's 1614 01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:55.120 assume the number's correct. And it very well 1615 01:06:55.120 --> 01:06:56.820 may be. I think you guys got about, 1616 01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:59.880 it sounds like, about 25 or 35 % 1617 01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:04.880 turnout. Like, how do you square that circle 1618 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.460 with what's been going on between Alberta and 1619 01:07:07.460 --> 01:07:11.520 Ottawa, Alberta and the U .S.? Obviously, the 1620 01:07:11.520 --> 01:07:14.220 Trump administration is taking a keen interest in 1621 01:07:14.220 --> 01:07:16.920 Alberta, and maybe specifically, I should say, the 1622 01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:21.100 resources. doesn't seem to have landed with enough 1623 01:07:21.100 --> 01:07:24.440 of the population there. What's the

deal? Yeah, 1624 01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:29.800 so brief background. Alberta has more oil than 1625 01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:31.820 anywhere in the world. We have the largest 1626 01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:34.380 resource of oil. We have more oil than 1627 01:07:34.380 --> 01:07:39.120 Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia combined. And, you 1628 01:07:39.120 --> 01:07:41.940 know, we've been stifled from developing that for 1629 01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:45.860 decades. And we're now in this spot where 1630 01:07:45.860 --> 01:07:49.440 as a Canadian, you pay taxes to the 1631 01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:51.580 federal government and the federal government distributes them 1632 01:07:51.580 --> 01:07:53.740 to the provinces and they have something called 1633 01:07:53.740 --> 01:07:57.340 equalization payments wherein the provinces that make more 1634 01:07:57.340 --> 01:08:00.980 money get less back and the result of 1635 01:08:00.980 --> 01:08:02.800 that has been that every single year since 1636 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:04.820 this has happened Alberta has been a half 1637 01:08:04.820 --> 01:08:07.200 province as they described them and we pay 1638 01:08:07.200 --> 01:08:08.920 into this pool that goes out to the 1639 01:08:08.920 --> 01:08:13.240 other provinces and you know overall it's almost 1640 01:08:13.240 --> 01:08:16.060 exclusively Alberta paying in it's you know the 1641 01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:18.560 vast majority of the money sent to the 1642 01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:19.940 rest of the country has been paid in 1643 01:08:19.940 --> 01:08:21.820 by Alberta and the vast majority of that 1644 01:08:21.820 --> 01:08:26.500 money goes to Ontario and Quebec. And we've 1645 01:08:26.500 --> 01:08:29.080 kind of just been railing against this system 1646 01:08:29.080 --> 01:08:31.260 where, you know, not only are we paying 1647 01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:33.120 for the whole of Confederation, but we are 1648 01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:36.240 underrepresented. You know what I mean? We've, we've 1649 01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:42.160 never had a proportional representation on our legislature, 1650 01:08:42.160 --> 01:08:44.280 which is like our Congress, and we've never 1651 01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:47.800 had, we have a Senate in Canada as 1652 01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:49.760 well that is is kind of a real 1653 01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:53.080 thing, but not really. It's an appointed Senate, 1654 01:08:53.080 --> 01:08:56.500 and they're more of a rubber stamp entity 1655 01:08:56.500 --> 01:08:59.020 than anything. There's never really been a case 1656 01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:01.240 where the Senate weighs in in a meaningful 1657 01:09:01.240 --> 01:09:04.180 way into the creation of law. And so 1658 01:09:04.180 --> 01:09:06.480 we're, you know, it's kind of like the 1659 01:09:06.480 --> 01:09:09.700 basis of the American Revolution. It's taxation without 1660 01:09:09.700 --> 01:09:12.380 representation. And at this point, there's a lot 1661 01:09:12.380 --> 01:09:15.120 of

people who just want out of this 1662 01:09:15.120 --> 01:09:19.740 point. bargaining. And so we, you know, we've 1663 01:09:19.740 --> 01:09:23.880 had this growing Alberta separatist movement. I became 1664 01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.920 a separatist when Trudeau was reelected in 2019. 1665 01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:29.360 They've been talking about it nonstop since then. 1666 01:09:29.360 --> 01:09:31.800 And we finally got to the point after 1667 01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:36.720 many, many decades of abuse. The abuse of 1668 01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:39.020 Alberta really started in the 70s with the 1669 01:09:39.020 --> 01:09:41.980 original Pierre Trudeau. And since then, we just 1670 01:09:41.980 --> 01:09:45.880 haven't gotten a fair shaking confederation and you 1671 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:47.640 know we just finally got to the point 1672 01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:50.440 where enough of this sentiment had had created 1673 01:09:50.440 --> 01:09:53.560 a groundswell that we got um we got 1674 01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:55.460 a referendum you know we had a we 1675 01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:58.280 have a provincial law that requires a referendum 1676 01:09:58.280 --> 01:10:00.020 if you get enough signatures you can force 1677 01:10:00.020 --> 01:10:03.300 a referendum on anything and uh we had 1678 01:10:03.300 --> 01:10:05.080 a group that got enough signatures to force 1679 01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:09.640 a referendum on alberta independence and the the 1680 01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:11.640 response from the daniel smith government was not 1681 01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:14.200 to hold a referendum on independent as the 1682 01:10:14.200 --> 01:10:17.440 law required and the vote showed and the 1683 01:10:17.440 --> 01:10:20.380 signature showed, the response was to say that 1684 01:10:20.380 --> 01:10:22.900 instead of holding a referendum on Albert Independence, 1685 01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:23.820 what we're going to do is hold a 1686 01:10:23.820 --> 01:10:27.300 referendum to decide whether we should hold a 1687 01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:29.720 referendum. There was like eight other questions alongside 1688 01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:31.720 it, right? Like that ballot was, you know, 1689 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.380 it was on full scale. Yeah, exactly. There 1690 01:10:34.380 --> 01:10:37.980 was nine other questions and the questions touched 1691 01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:42.280 pretty much all on the issue in one 1692 01:10:42.280 --> 01:10:45.060 way or another. of provincial powers versus federal 1693 01:10:45.060 --> 01:10:48.180 powers, and many of them focused on immigration. 1694 01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:50.060 And so that's the part that's kind of 1695 01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.520 up in the air. You know, the separatist 1696 01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:55.060 movement I don't think was going to win 1697 01:10:55.060 --> 01:10:56.960 one way or the other on this election 1698 01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.260 because there was really no leadership. There was 1699 01:10:59.260 --> 01:11:02.500 nobody telling Albertans, hey, you know what, you're 1700 01:11:02.500 --> 01:11:04.240 going to save $20 ,000 a year on 1701 01:11:04.240 --> 01:11:07.900 your taxes if we separate from Canada, which 1702 01:11:07.900 --> 01:11:10.020 is the math. That's the reality of the 1703 01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:14.200 situation. and the full force of the globalist 1704 01:11:14.200 --> 01:11:20.700 machine and their election manipulation, election rigging was 1705 01:11:20.700 --> 01:11:23.020 in force here, and we saw things like 1706 01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:24.560 the global and mail, which is the, you 1707 01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:26.860 know, one of the biggest newspapers in Canada, 1708 01:11:26.860 --> 01:11:28.880 came out with a story like three or 1709 01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:30.460 four days before the election saying that the 1710 01:11:30.460 --> 01:11:32.900 majority of the doctors in Alberta would leave 1711 01:11:32.900 --> 01:11:36.100 if we separate, for example. And it, like, 1712 01:11:36.100 --> 01:11:37.860 those kind of things are, it's so absurd, 1713 01:11:37.860 --> 01:11:41.140 right? It's like, and frankly, we probably would 1714 01:11:41.140 --> 01:11:43.500 be great if the majority of our doctors 1715 01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:45.320 left at this point because the majority of 1716 01:11:45.320 --> 01:11:47.760 our doctors are not real doctors. They're not 1717 01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:49.960 Canadians who are trained in a Canadian system 1718 01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:51.640 or or people who are trained in any 1719 01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:56.540 medical system in the West whatsoever. And, you 1720 01:11:56.540 --> 01:12:00.820 know, so we've been bombarded with the results 1721 01:12:00.820 --> 01:12:03.620 of this machine that they apply to every 1722 01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:06.000 election. And now we're sort of in in 1723 01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.440 the spot where we've got these nine extra 1724 01:12:09.440 --> 01:12:12.580 questions that, you know, most of them voted 1725 01:12:12.580 --> 01:12:15.200 yes because they're absolutely, you'd have to be 1726 01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:16.760 absolutely insane to vote no on some of 1727 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:18.640 these things. One of the questions, for example, 1728 01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:22.460 was should we require proof of Canadian citizenship 1729 01:12:22.460 --> 01:12:25.700 to vote in elections? And like, that's already 1730 01:12:25.700 --> 01:12:27.260 in the law. Well, there was a few, 1731 01:12:27.260 --> 01:12:28.900 few easy ones, right? Like, it was access 1732 01:12:28.900 --> 01:12:31.640 to elections, access to health care and social 1733 01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:35.860 services. Should we restrict illegal immigration into the 1734 01:12:35.860 --> 01:12:38.780 province? Easy ones, right? Sorry, continue. Yeah, exactly. 1735 01:12:38.780 --> 01:12:40.780 Yeah, exactly. The kind of things that you. 1736 01:12:40.780 --> 01:12:44.980 No one

rational and informed would ever say, 1737 01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:47.680 no, we don't want that. And so Daniel 1738 01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:50.580 Smith, the Premier of Alberta, like our governor, 1739 01:12:50.580 --> 01:12:53.540 her response, instead of saying, yes, you know 1740 01:12:53.540 --> 01:12:56.180 what, you've got enough signatures to hold a 1741 01:12:56.180 --> 01:12:59.200 referendum on this, was to say, we're going 1742 01:12:59.200 --> 01:13:01.100 to kind of hold a referendum on this, 1743 01:13:01.100 --> 01:13:03.320 but also hold all these other small referendums. 1744 01:13:03.320 --> 01:13:05.940 And the theory was that she would come 1745 01:13:05.940 --> 01:13:08.260 out of this with a mandate to challenge 1746 01:13:08.260 --> 01:13:10.600 the federal government on our provincial sovereignty and 1747 01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:11.800 on the. the rights that we're supposed to 1748 01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:15.460 have that other provinces like Quebec already have, 1749 01:13:15.460 --> 01:13:19.800 but now we're seeing these somewhat questionable results 1750 01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:22.320 come in and sort of skew some of 1751 01:13:22.320 --> 01:13:25.280 those extra questions as well, wherein, you know, 1752 01:13:25.280 --> 01:13:27.820 you had a massive, massive increase. I think 1753 01:13:27.820 --> 01:13:30.660 our last election that we had was something 1754 01:13:30.660 --> 01:13:36.880 like 50 ,000 advance and mail -in ballots. 1755 01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:39.140 And we're, I think we're at, you know, 1756 01:13:39.140 --> 01:13:42.440 six or 700 ,000. It's an enormous number. 1757 01:13:42.440 --> 01:13:44.500 The bar chart is like, it's unerving to 1758 01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:48.100 see it. Yeah. And so, um, I don't 1759 01:13:48.100 --> 01:13:51.900 know if that mandate exists. A mandate isn't 1760 01:13:51.900 --> 01:13:53.480 a real thing that you can measure or 1761 01:13:53.480 --> 01:13:56.780 not. So it's hard to say. But if 1762 01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:58.640 you look at the, if you look at 1763 01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.160 the results in what actual Albertan said, it's 1764 01:14:01.160 --> 01:14:02.880 that we have had enough of this. You 1765 01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:04.860 know, we've had enough of the federal government 1766 01:14:04.860 --> 01:14:08.540 dumping an unlimited number of immigrants who don't 1767 01:14:08.540 --> 01:14:10.960 fit into our society on us. We've, had 1768 01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:14.560 enough of the federal government overreaching on their 1769 01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:17.920 powers as defined in the Constitution. And the 1770 01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:21.780 best thing that came out of this is 1771 01:14:21.780 --> 01:14:25.140 that we're able to start challenging the federal 1772 01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:27.540 government and get similar rights to the province 1773 01:14:27.540 --> 01:14:32.220 of Quebec. And I think we, like I 1774 01:14:32.220 --> 01:14:33.960 mentioned before, I think we've seen the death 1775 01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:36.220 of Canada. I think Canada is over as 1776 01:14:36.220 --> 01:14:38.100 a country. I'm sure you guys have both 1777 01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:40.580 read the sovereign individual, which in the middle 1778 01:14:40.580 --> 01:14:43.580 of the book predicts that Alberta will separate, 1779 01:14:43.580 --> 01:14:46.720 causing Canada to be the first large -scale 1780 01:14:46.720 --> 01:14:48.440 nation -state to fall in the way that 1781 01:14:48.440 --> 01:14:51.780 the book predicts. And, you know, I still 1782 01:14:51.780 --> 01:14:54.640 think that's coming. I still think Alberta will 1783 01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.280 be one of the first places to be 1784 01:14:56.280 --> 01:14:59.040 truly sovereign in the world from this globalist 1785 01:14:59.040 --> 01:15:01.920 agenda. But, you know, they're making a good, 1786 01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:04.140 they're making a good play of it. They're 1787 01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:06.180 pulling out all the stops because there's just, 1788 01:15:06.180 --> 01:15:08.020 you know, there's too much oil for them 1789 01:15:08.020 --> 01:15:10.780 to ignore this and allow us to separate. 1790 01:15:10.780 --> 01:15:13.260 Adam, I don't want to unfairly characterize you 1791 01:15:13.260 --> 01:15:15.780 as a former content guy, but you're a 1792 01:15:15.780 --> 01:15:17.900 C -suite guy now, okay? And I don't 1793 01:15:17.900 --> 01:15:19.000 want to put you in a box with 1794 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:20.520 a difficult answer here. But you've got to 1795 01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:25.320 tell me what is the thinking around Canadian 1796 01:15:25.320 --> 01:15:27.460 provinces joining the U .S. You guys obviously 1797 01:15:27.460 --> 01:15:29.240 have, I don't want to say a similar 1798 01:15:29.240 --> 01:15:32.420 situation, but it's akin to Alberta and Texas. 1799 01:15:32.420 --> 01:15:34.060 There's obviously been discussions about, you know, this 1800 01:15:34.060 --> 01:15:35.840 sort of Texas secession movement over the last 1801 01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:38.480 three, four, or five years. Let's say it's 1802 01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:40.420 ramped up a bit. How do you guys 1803 01:15:40.420 --> 01:15:42.020 think about it? this in the U .S. 1804 01:15:42.020 --> 01:15:44.300 And maybe like, you know, what is the, 1805 01:15:44.300 --> 01:15:47.480 what is the thinking around the strength of 1806 01:15:47.480 --> 01:15:49.980 the union as far as, you know, you 1807 01:15:49.980 --> 01:15:53.460 kind of want provinces, in my opinion anyway, 1808 01:15:53.460 --> 01:15:55.020 you kind of, I'm thinking about the Canadian 1809 01:15:55.020 --> 01:15:57.380 example, you want provinces that are strong enough 1810 01:15:57.380 --> 01:15:59.640 that they can go out on their own, 1811 01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:01.980 because that makes the country stronger if you 1812 01:16:01.980 --> 01:16:03.920 can rein them in and sort of like 1813 01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:06.980

harness that power. You don't want all provinces, 1814 01:16:06.980 --> 01:16:08.940 all states to be, you know, bending the 1815 01:16:08.940 --> 01:16:11.280 knee at all times. How does the US 1816 01:16:11.280 --> 01:16:13.620 think about that in their borders and how 1817 01:16:13.620 --> 01:16:14.720 do they think about what's going on in 1818 01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:17.580 Alberta? That's a great question. And honestly, guys, 1819 01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:20.160 I wasn't familiar with this movement, but I 1820 01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:22.980 am diet Canadian. So I am pretty close 1821 01:16:22.980 --> 01:16:25.240 to you guys. I'm Minnesotan. So we have 1822 01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:30.360 very polarizing political things happening in the last 1823 01:16:30.360 --> 01:16:32.380 year in this state where you mentioned a 1824 01:16:32.380 --> 01:16:34.620 lot of interesting things like the things that 1825 01:16:34.620 --> 01:16:36.360 you would think are non -starters in terms 1826 01:16:36.360 --> 01:16:39.560 of allowing illegal immigrants to have certain civil 1827 01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:41.640 services. Like, for example, in the state of 1828 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:44.880 Minnesota, we give illegal immigrants driver's licenses, which 1829 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:47.140 is very interesting. So there is a lot 1830 01:16:47.140 --> 01:16:50.200 of political polarization. And the big question I've 1831 01:16:50.200 --> 01:16:51.840 been asking in the United States over the 1832 01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:55.160 last few years is, when is balkanization going 1833 01:16:55.160 --> 01:16:57.320 to happen? Because ever since Trump got elected 1834 01:16:57.320 --> 01:17:00.320 in 16, like, the country is like twice 1835 01:17:00.320 --> 01:17:01.840 as polarized. And I thought it was bad 1836 01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:04.540 back then. And, you know, from the outsider's 1837 01:17:04.540 --> 01:17:07.700 perspective, looking at Canada, I've seen just tremendous 1838 01:17:07.700 --> 01:17:10.480 debate over the long -term, trend of the 1839 01:17:10.480 --> 01:17:12.840 country, like it seems like the dialogue has 1840 01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.360 become overwhelmingly negative from Canada over the last 1841 01:17:16.360 --> 01:17:18.460 five years or so. And obviously you saw 1842 01:17:18.460 --> 01:17:20.800 the Canadian trucker protests, but now that there's 1843 01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:24.260 actual separatist movements being talked about and being 1844 01:17:24.260 --> 01:17:27.240 like even considered by a solid portion of 1845 01:17:27.240 --> 01:17:28.980 the populace thing. Had a real vote the 1846 01:17:28.980 --> 01:17:31.680 other day. A 25 % turnout is what 1847 01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:34.480 I'm reading, which is interesting. So, um, you 1848 01:17:34.480 --> 01:17:36.180 know, I look at the broader thing. I 1849 01:17:36.180 --> 01:17:38.120 think that states do need to be competitive 1850 01:17:38.120 --> 01:17:42.080 to, you know, obviously bring in productive citizens. 1851 01:17:42.080 --> 01:17:43.420 There's a lapper curve. You don't want to 1852 01:17:43.420 --> 01:17:46.040 tax productive people too much. So you drive 1853 01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:48.180 out productivity in your state. But I look 1854 01:17:48.180 --> 01:17:50.060 at the state of a Western civilization with 1855 01:17:50.060 --> 01:17:52.220 the U .S., with Canada, with even what's 1856 01:17:52.220 --> 01:17:54.080 happening in France right now. It seems like 1857 01:17:54.080 --> 01:17:57.800 there is increasingly civil disobedience happening. And I 1858 01:17:57.800 --> 01:18:00.360 don't think that they're from the taxpayers necessarily. 1859 01:18:00.360 --> 01:18:02.880 So it's getting ugly and I pray that 1860 01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:05.780 things get better. But yeah, I do think 1861 01:18:05.780 --> 01:18:07.000 that I can relate to a lot of 1862 01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:08.040 the stuff that you guys were just saying 1863 01:18:08.040 --> 01:18:13.060 about Alberta. I love that you're from Minnesota. 1864 01:18:13.060 --> 01:18:14.280 I mean, do you have a Leering Center 1865 01:18:14.280 --> 01:18:17.800 hoodie? I don't have the swag. I don't 1866 01:18:17.800 --> 01:18:19.300 have the leering center swag, but I need 1867 01:18:19.300 --> 01:18:21.000 to get it. I love it. I love 1868 01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:24.300 it. Okay. In the interest of allowing you 1869 01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:25.500 guys to talk a bit about what you're 1870 01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:27.500 both doing, obviously, you guys are both first 1871 01:18:27.500 --> 01:18:29.040 timers on the show. I'm going to give 1872 01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:31.180 you the platform here each for a little 1873 01:18:31.180 --> 01:18:32.340 bit of time, tell people where they can 1874 01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:33.980 find you, learn more about you. And then 1875 01:18:33.980 --> 01:18:35.560 I'm going to play this video, Nathan just 1876 01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:37.180 sent me of him and Ben. It looks 1877 01:18:37.180 --> 01:18:38.740 like, I don't want to spoil the, but 1878 01:18:38.740 --> 01:18:41.900 on stage doing some kind of rock concert. 1879 01:18:41.900 --> 01:18:43.900 So, Dave, I'll start with you. Then we'll 1880 01:18:43.900 --> 01:18:45.620 pass to Adam. We'll go to the concert 1881 01:18:45.620 --> 01:18:46.780 and we'll get out of here. We can 1882 01:18:46.780 --> 01:18:49.700 enjoy our weekend. David, tell people where they 1883 01:18:49.700 --> 01:18:51.400 can find out more about you. And maybe, 1884 01:18:51.400 --> 01:18:54.200 like, a link to the hat, I guess. 1885 01:18:54.200 --> 01:18:57.240 Is that still available? I don't know. Well, 1886 01:18:57.240 --> 01:18:58.820 I have a few hats. This is my 1887 01:18:58.820 --> 01:19:02.420 small fur hat. So, like, because it's warm 1888 01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:04.520 today, right? So when it gets cold, I'll 1889 01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:05.920 be out here in a big fur hat. 1890 01:19:05.920 -->

01:19:09.040 And that's something to behold. and my big 1891 01:19:09.040 --> 01:19:12.260 fur hat came from furhatworld .com, which I'm 1892 01:19:12.260 --> 01:19:14.680 not sponsored by, which is a travesty. Great 1893 01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.180 URL, by the way. SEO on a hundred 1894 01:19:17.180 --> 01:19:19.220 there. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to 1895 01:19:19.220 --> 01:19:21.600 email them. I should get a sponsorship, honestly. 1896 01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.440 But, yeah, I mean, you can find me 1897 01:19:23.440 --> 01:19:26.240 as Bitcoin Brains on Twitter. I'm not, I 1898 01:19:26.240 --> 01:19:29.080 don't have anything to pump at the moment. 1899 01:19:29.080 --> 01:19:31.460 But, you know, that's, if you want to 1900 01:19:31.460 --> 01:19:34.560 find me ranting about how much the government 1901 01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:36.660 sucks, that's probably the place to find it. 1902 01:19:36.660 --> 01:19:39.280 A great follow. a show with Nolan Bowerly 1903 01:19:39.280 --> 01:19:42.020 every day too, right? The Canadians sort of, 1904 01:19:42.020 --> 01:19:45.540 yeah. Yeah, we do that every, every Friday. 1905 01:19:45.540 --> 01:19:48.400 So if you want to look that up, 1906 01:19:48.400 --> 01:19:51.200 it's on Nolan's YouTube and Rumble at Count 1907 01:19:51.200 --> 01:19:56.360 BTC. Yeah. Very strong. Lots of anti -government 1908 01:19:56.360 --> 01:19:58.340 ranting to be found there as well. Highly 1909 01:19:58.340 --> 01:20:00.420 recommend that. Adam, tell people to let you, 1910 01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:02.760 buddy. Yeah, I am the vice president of 1911 01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:04.740 investments at Strive. We are trying to buy 1912 01:20:04.740 --> 01:20:06.300 a bunch of Bitcoin, hopefully in the number 1913 01:20:06.300 --> 01:20:08.980 two spot soon, behind strategy. We're trying to 1914 01:20:08.980 --> 01:20:10.720 come for you, Michael. I mean, you clearly 1915 01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:14.120 have a solid moat there, but we're going 1916 01:20:14.120 --> 01:20:15.220 to try as hard as we can. You 1917 01:20:15.220 --> 01:20:17.640 can find me on YouTube at Adam Livingston, 1918 01:20:17.640 --> 01:20:20.580 BTC. I am a hardcore Bitcoin maxi, always 1919 01:20:20.580 --> 01:20:22.920 breaking down macro in Bitcoin because I love 1920 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.420 the orange coin. I am an orange coin 1921 01:20:25.420 --> 01:20:27.760 Bitcoin cultists. So you can find me on 1922 01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:29.740 exit Adam B. Live as well. I want 1923 01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:31.340 to give a plug to a show you 1924 01:20:31.340 --> 01:20:33.400 did with a friend of mine, Ben Schmidt 1925 01:20:33.400 --> 01:20:36.800 a little while ago. I love that. Ben's 1926 01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:39.400 a great guy. great bit coiner sneaky tall 1927 01:20:39.400 --> 01:20:40.840 in person he's got to be six two 1928 01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:43.020 or six three and his parents are very 1929 01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:45.420 nice as well so i know the whole 1930 01:20:45.420 --> 01:20:47.400 family don't ask me how that happened but 1931 01:20:47.400 --> 01:20:49.060 uh very nice people we're going to go 1932 01:20:49.060 --> 01:20:52.080 now to what i think might be the 1933 01:20:52.080 --> 01:20:54.420 most important part of the show here at 1934 01:20:54.420 --> 01:20:56.580 this i mean whatever this is i'm going 1935 01:20:56.580 --> 01:20:58.740 to play this and then we're going to 1936 01:20:58.740 --> 01:21:11.600 leave i guess here we go Is that 1937 01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:15.320 Nate on the guitar maybe? The real part 1938 01:21:15.320 --> 01:21:16.820 of the show is the guy standing on 1939 01:21:16.820 --> 01:21:21.000 the speakers doing the fucking windmill and I 1940 01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:27.940 have no idea. Not sure, not sure. Listen, 1941 01:21:27.940 --> 01:21:30.120 boys, boys and girls listening, boys on the 1942 01:21:30.120 --> 01:21:32.000 street here. Take care of yourselves, enjoy with 1943 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:33.400 you guys. My name is Joey, that's Dave 1944 01:21:33.400 --> 01:21:34.960 Dad, and this was Big Cass. We'll see 1945 01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:38.900 you one day. You know the world is 1946 01:21:38.900 --> 01:21:42.580 heading down a dark path. Online censorship, central 1947 01:21:42.580 --> 01:21:45.840 bank digital currencies, a complete loss of privacy, 1948 01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:48.380 and it's only accelerator. Most people are falling 1949 01:21:48.380 --> 01:21:50.940 behind with the latest technology, and those that 1950 01:21:50.940 --> 01:21:53.820 aren't are sacrificing their data, their control, and 1951 01:21:53.820 --> 01:21:57.820 their dignity just to keep up. That doesn't 1952 01:21:57.820 --> 01:22:00.120 have to be you. Here, you'll have everything 1953 01:22:00.120 --> 01:22:02.440 you need to break free. Over the past 1954 01:22:02.440 --> 01:22:05.360 decade, I've helped 20 million people take control 1955 01:22:05.360 --> 01:22:07.320 of their money, their data, and their digital. 1956 01:22:07.320 --> 01:22:10.100 digital lives. Now I'm bringing everything I've learned 1957 01:22:10.100 --> 01:22:12.940 to one place. Sovereign Sessions is your home 1958 01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:17.000 to learn, master, and live freedom tech, Bitcoin, 1959 01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:21.260 AI, private communications, self -hosted tools, everything. Each 1960 01:22:21.260 --> 01:22:23.140 week, I'll walk you through step by step 1961 01:22:23.140 --> 01:22:25.960 with the most critical tools that put you 1962 01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:29.520 back in charge. Don't ask permission, take control. 1963 01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:32.980 Welcome to the Sovereign Sessions.