บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ John Greene

Okay, you can stop now. 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:40.719 No, not helpful. 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:41.520 Put it down. 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:46.080 Chris, um what uh do you have use for the rocks in the meetings? 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.560 Yeah, uh when it gets really stressful, I just take it and I just start doing this. 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.599 Petting the top of the rock. 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:54.639 Like a thumbing stone. 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:56.560 It's like a thumbing stone. 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.800 It is, and it really actually relaxes the other people in the in the meeting. 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:01.759 It's cutting edge. 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:02.560 This is new. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:09.680 Um, I'm gonna start uh selling these uh if it's not breaking copyright, but I will start selling these. 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.599 So big day today at the Ostranders. 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:15.439 We gave Ted Teddy the dog a bath. 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:16.240 Big day. 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.719 Oh does he fight that or like that? 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:19.840 Loves it. 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:20.960 Loves the bath. 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.080 Read interesting. 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:25.599 Okay, it's the golden in them. 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:30.000 Warm water, people scratching me, and all that kind of good stuff. 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:31.360 Loves it. 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:32.240 Loves it. 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:33.599 But how about the dog? 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:34.560 Me too. 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:36.000 I was just gonna say. 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.680 Um I just want to close the loop on the rocks there, Chris. 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:45.599 If the rocks ever start talking to you during the meetings, it's time to go on that bike ride again. 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:46.400 It's time to get out. 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:48.240 Yeah, that's a good point. 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:52.560 Yeah, I haven't gotten there yet, but uh it's been a lot of petting in the rocks. 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:53.840 Um, yeah, that's good. 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.800 Who's uh who's taking a bath at your place, Peter? 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:57.759 Not me. 00:03:57.919 --> 00:03:58.560 That's for sure. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:03:59.520 Look at that hair. 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:00.960 Oh my gosh. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:06.000 We have had like almost zero rain since June 13th. 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:06.960 Zero. 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:07.680 Really? 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:08.719 At our house. 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.039 Southern Moorhead pours rain. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:12.479 North of us pours rain. 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:20.079 Today, literally all of North Dakota had a cell and it broke apart, skipped our house, and came back together on the other side. 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.399 We were supposed to get inches of rain today. 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:23.360 Bupkus. 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.720 Like my grass is literally still brown, dry, dead. 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:38.319 And everybody around here has stopped even using their watering systems because it's just they have like little putting greens around each head, and they it can't keep up. 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:39.839 It's so dry. 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.240 So, anyway, um, I don't know why I had to bring that up, but it's just exhausting. 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:45.600 I'm getting bored here. 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:46.240 Anything else? 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:46.639 It's good. 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:48.160 Hey, wait, uh wait a second. 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:48.959 It's Green Bay. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.000 Football season is getting dangerously close to starting, Chris. 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.759 What if do you have your finger on the pulse uh in Green Bay? 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:57.040 What give us the update? 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.600 Uh uh Okay, the update is uh currently at time of recording. 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:06.560 Uh the Badgers are playing right now in Notre Dame at Lambeau Field. 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:14.000 And so I just want you to know that people know that I sell seat cushions, the rentals, you know, and they're asking me now. 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.040 They're like, Were you are you there tonight selling seat cushions? 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.279 And I'm like, you know, I'm glad that I'm known for this now. 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.639 But no, I'm not. 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:28.079 My uh when you go to sell my organization doesn't go out until it's really cold. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.000 Like this is way too warm for us. 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:30.800 Oh, okay. 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:31.199 I see. 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:35.920 Well, speaking of the Packers, we have a uh Packers fan on tonight as a guest. 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:38.000 Oh, you do. 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:39.360 Green screen. 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.079 We got a green screen. 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:40.560 Yes, right. 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:43.600 Um you're in for real treat. 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.240 Now, here's the secret, and this person won't doesn't know I'm gonna say this, but that's okay. 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:49.519 They can't stop me. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:57.839 Um this person for sure tonight is the smartest and most talented guy on the screen, but often is the most smartest. 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.120 No, no, tonight, but he's just you know, this isn't as little. 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:09.759 Yeah, but he's usually the smartest and most talented guy in the room, but works really hard to blend in, so you'll never know. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.439 Reads the room well, builds up the people around him. 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:18.079 He loves to learn by listening to others talk, he loves to encourage and prop people up. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:22.720 He's super humble, unbelievably creative, and has a great sense of humor. 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:28.079 All of these markers make him better than he should not be on

this podcast, like just straight away. 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:40.319 This guest uh had a career of teaching around Wisconsin and Minnesota and spent the majority of his time teaching in the 196th school district. 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:42.319 Uh knows Phil? 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:49.680 Kind of knows Chris uh from Humble Musical Beginnings and Adams Friendship and starting college as a PE major. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.959 He holds degrees from the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point in Minnesota State University. 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:02.639 Um we have to ask him about um when he switched to be a music major in his undergrad. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:08.079 He was right at the time that there was a Schoenberg and Ives music festival, and you gotta hear this story. 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:09.279 It's hilarious. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:10.160 Okay, anyway. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:14.240 Um he was the 2013 music educator of the year for Minnesota. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:24.319 Also a Packers fan, as we mentioned, he's taught for 37 years and is now happily enjoying time as a passionate, nearly daily golfer and a guitarist in his retirement. 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.519 He's lauded for his work with concert bands, jazz bands, marching arts. 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:36.319 He's been awarded numerous honors at jazz festivals, appeared at MMEA multiple times, served as the jazz chair for MMEA. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:36.959 I think I know. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:39.680 He's a middle school level director for the Minnesota Youth Jazz. 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:42.480 I know about the reason for the green screen. 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:44.240 It is a green screen. 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:46.399 There is a member of the green screen. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:48.720 There is a reason it's a green screen. 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.240 Active arranger for culture band, jazz band, marching band, percussion, chamber groups. 00:07:52.399 --> 00:08:00.639 His role as adjudicator, he adjudges over 25 events a year and goes 14 states plus Canada international adjudicator. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:09.279 Serves in leadership roles as a judge administrator for the Mint American Competing Band Directors Association and the Minnesota Percussion Association. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:10.319 Hot shot. 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:10.639 Phil. 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:11.680 Definitely a hot shot. 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:12.399 Hotshot. 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:15.120 Our guest tonight is Is this John Green? 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:16.399 It's John Green. 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.360 Good job, Phil. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.120 Look at this. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:23.040 How'd you figure it out? 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:24.800 So what was it that tipped you off? 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:28.319 I mean the smartest guy in the room, not Phil. 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:38.480 You were reading this like list of you know uh honors and recently we retired and uh and I I just put it all I put it together. 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:39.200 I don't know why. 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:40.399 Like I I don't know why. 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.080 Well, you spend a lot of time with the Middle Eclair Jazz Festival every year, I'm assuming, yes? 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.720 I think, yeah, John, we we meet up there typically, don't we? 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.440 Oh yeah. 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.559 I've I've been going there since 1976. 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:51.120 Yeah. 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:58.000 In some fashion, as a participant or as a judge or as just a spectator. 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:00.240 Anyway, John Green, welcome to the show. 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:01.919 We're really glad to have you here. 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.159 Um John, this is fantastic. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:04.639 Welcome. 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:05.440 Thank you for doing this. 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:06.000 Thank you. 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.360 John, you gotta start with a story about your humble beginnings. 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:12.159 So John said to me, Oh my gosh, I just wasn't ready. 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.679 Like the first time I saw Marimba was when I got to college, right? 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:16.000 Yeah. 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.480 So you gotta tell them this story because it's just hilarious. 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.559 All of us music geeks will think it's all. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:26.720 Well, I had I was one of those kids in high school who did everything, and band was just one of the things. 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:28.000 I knew I wanted to be a teacher. 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.440 So I so I went to Stevens Point because it was the closest college. 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:33.039 That's why I went there. 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.120 And um I started as a Fayette major, and while I was a Fayette major, I was in percussion ensemble. 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:50.000 I was the third drummer in the third jazz ensemble because that was the first time I ever was in a jazz ensemble, because we didn't have one, and I was in a concert band. 00:09:50.480 --> 00:10:00.399 And uh anyway, uh so I switched over, started taking lessons to a music major, and I had to start going to recitals. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:10.799 And the first recital I went to that wasn't our actual Wednesday recital was part of our Schoenberg Eyes Festival that week. 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:27.440 Um and I went to a solo unaccompanied violin recital of the music of Schoenberg, and I was crawling out of my skin because this kid from Adam's friendship was not ready for what that was gonna do. 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:37.600 And I marched into my advisor's office the next day after two and a half grueling hours, and I said, I can't be a music major if this is what I have to do. 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:39.919 I cannot listen to this stuff. 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:44.320 Two and a half hours of unaccompanied Schoenberg violin. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.279 Can you imagine? 00:10:47.840 -->

00:10:49.600 Not good, not good. 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:56.960 And we were playing Schoenberg in um uh in band, we're playing the variations uh in orchestra. 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:08.159 We were doing the 4th of July, and I was a cymbal player, and I couldn't follow the orchestra director for anything, trying to be two marching bands playing the cymbals converging upon each other, you know. 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.960 So, and many people were struggling, so I thought I think I was okay. 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:14.799 I love it, I love it. 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.519 Uh, well, John, thanks for being here. 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:22.240 And uh I know we brought this up, and in fact, you're even an adjudicator at the Eau Claire Jazz Festival now, too. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:23.840 So I wanted to start off. 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:35.440 Um, I mean, how many days last year do you think you were in somebody's band room, either clinicking them in their school or acting as an adjudicator at a festival? 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:37.440 Like how many days last year do you think? 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:38.639 Oh, I don't know. 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:39.840 Maybe 30. 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:43.919 So um some have called you the band whisperer. 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:55.600 Um tell me why you think that is and what a band director could learn from somebody who spends so much time listening to so many different groups. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.480 Well, when I when I work with bands, I I first of all try to find out what they're doing well. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:19.279 And even if it's just a smidgen of doing something well, especially if it's artistic or if it's expressive or musical, and I hop on that right away, just trying to encourage them to do more of that kind of thing and take those risks um with with their kids and and trust their kids to be able to do that stuff. 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:28.080 And then the comments I make, um, I'm not there to clean anyone when I go like help a band prepare for MMEA or anything like that. 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:32.480 Um, yeah, with my drum core background, believe me, I know how to clean. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:39.120 I mean, that's what you learn, but I don't get a lot of I don't get a lot of uh gratification from cleaning. 00:12:39.440 --> 00:13:03.679 So I try to give the say things to them that maybe wouldn't be obvious, and things that they can work on that are just a little bit more sometimes they're understated things, sometimes they're you know artistic things, but just get them thinking that little little bit that way, all the time, affirming that they have the skills to do this, because I I believe they do. 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:13.759 And I don't care if it's high school, I don't care if it's middle school, you gotta believe the kids can play musically at any level if you're giving them music that they can achieve. 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:14.879 I love it. 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:15.919 Yeah, that's cool.

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.039 Yeah, John. 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:25.679 I I uh know you through Bernie Powers and Mark Davison, and I mean, because you have a long history. 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:38.080 Uh Macbeth, you know, I mean, uh has gone through a ton of transformation, and I think the marching arts alone has gone through a ton of stuff over the last like 30 years. 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:38.639 Oh, yeah. 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.840 Um what do you see uh through your perspective? 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:50.399 What have you seen uh as far as that transformation, both good and maybe even some concerning things? 00:13:50.720 --> 00:14:01.840 Well, I you know, when I started in the whole thing, I was a rare breed because I got out of drum core and I graduated from college about the same time I aged out of drum core. 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:09.759 And let me tell you, you could count on one hand how many people there were with music degrees that marched snare drum in a drum corps. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.720 That was very, very unusual. 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.639 And um, but that gave me a huge advantage in terms of what I could bring to my to my job. 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.559 And what I saw at the beginning, there were definite camps. 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:35.759 There was like drumcor's bad camp, where band people, we do band a certain way, and um the drum corps people will say that the band don't know doesn't know how to do it right, and it's just a clash of egos. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:45.440 And I was this person that lived in both worlds, and really I enjoyed my college marching band experience a lot, and I the same with my drumcore experience. 00:14:45.679 --> 00:15:08.080 And what I've seen happen is is these worlds have all converged, and now they're they really commingle so so well, and I don't I don't hear people badmouth like march college marching bands hardly at all anymore, or drum chords, right? 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.799 And I gotta believe people may be kind of getting it, you know. 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:14.720 We all need each other. 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:17.200 We all need each other in the arts. 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:22.799 We don't want to be turning on each other and putting down our and letting our egos take over and stuff like that. 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:27.679 We need each other because together we're more powerful, we have a greater impact. 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:32.000 Um, and the kids who do both, they're gonna they're gonna really benefit from it all. 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.679 And they're gonna be those people that are gonna be advocating the same way. 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:36.639 I love that. 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:38.960 That's extremely well said. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:49.440 I I I don't know if Peter mentioned it in the introduction, I probably should have, but John, I mean, you made you had a career uh working with a young instrumentalist, middle school kids, you know. 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:55.600 Um, but I know that you're a very capable high school band director, and you offer you could offer plenty to college groups. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.279 I mean, you're a great musician. 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:04.799 It doesn't really matter, but uh somewhere along the lines, the middle school age bracket it must have become your thing. 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.159 Did was there a specific time where that happened or not really? 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:10.159 It was a little by accident. 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:21.039 I was at Rosemont High School in 1996 in the spring, and I was a band coordinator and I was helping do interviews for this new middle school in Apple Valley called Falcon Ridge. 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.960 It was going to open up that fall. 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:35.360 And um at time at the time we were you know having some challenges at home because our our daughter had was a sixth grader or fifth grader, and she was just diagnosed with autism. 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:45.679 And our our home life was really challenging because of that, especially mornings and going to school and just all that. 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.240 And I was kind of feeling guilty about being a high school band director. 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:56.320 And so at the interview I told the principal, I said, Hey, you know, I think I'd like to teach at Falcon Ridge. 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.960 And he said, You got a week to decide. 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:07.599 And I unbe unbeknownst to anyone, and the surprise of the world, I I left Rosemont High School and it worked out. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:08.880 That's great. 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:14.480 I mean, okay, so let's talk about those young musicians. 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:22.480 What are some myths about young musicians and middle school musicians that we should dissolve and get rid of as band directors? 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.559 Um, you can't have high expectations is a myth myth. 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:33.759 You can have high expectations, they just have to be the expectations that are suited for where that group is at. 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:34.480 That's all. 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.680 You can't there is no middle school palette. 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:43.359 You have to know you know your kids and know what they're capable of. 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:47.680 Um at Falcon Ridge, we tried to offer something for everyone. 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:56.960 We had things that, you know, you kind of get known for the things that are out and about and sound really well and do are successful. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:02.799 But I mean, we had remediation programs for kids who needed more time. 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:08.240 My mornings before school oftentimes were with kids that were struggling. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:16.480 Um, and you know, we we just tried to reach everyone and have groups for every different kind of kid. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:21.119 Uh and our number one goal in middle school

was to try to keep them in band. 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:22.720 Yeah, that's right. 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.400 Just keep them there longer. 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:49.359 Um I think the reason, no, this is just me projecting, but I think the reason you're the band whisperer and why you were so successful with those younger musicians is it's pretty easy to tell you care about them, and you also have this way to like wiggle your way into their minds and their hearts and build that trust and relationship with them, and then they can kind of hear what you're saying. 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:56.400 Um is there it's all about connections, it's all about connections, it really is. 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:07.359 And when I have a kid that's that is just not into it, won't bring their horn up in time, whatever, won't has trouble getting to class on times, I make it a point to to make connection with that kid. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:21.920 I meet them at the door, I talk to them, I find out what else is going on in their life, and I don't even talk about the band stuff that want them to do better until I think that that trust is there and I've got some stuff in the bank, and it's sincere, you know. 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:28.799 I mean, we all care about the kids, and I know the product is going to be so gratifying for them. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:35.440 And sometimes those kids, you see them three years later or something in high school, they're some of the best members there are. 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:36.400 Oh my god. 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:36.880 Yeah. 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:54.319 I mean, we had a kid, I remember in seventh, it was a seventh grader who really had a tough time attending, wanted to switch to percussion, and uh he had trouble sitting in his chair, and I didn't think percussion was the best thing for him because he couldn't sit in the chair with his horn. 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.519 Well, we let him switch in eighth grade. 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:04.960 Long story short, he went to UMass, majored in percussion performance and composition. 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:08.079 He marched snare with Carolina Crown. 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.799 He's a DCI judge, and he makes his living writing music for video games. 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:14.640 I love that. 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.720 I mean, you just never know. 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:17.680 You never know. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:24.559 I mean, yeah, you don't even know in high school or college what our lives are going to be like later, well, let alone 12. 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.240 Um, John, tell me about some of your other students you're the most proud of. 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:34.079 Who are some students that you've had in the past that are super successful and whatever they are that you're really proud of? 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.519 That's really hard. 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:37.839 I mean, because there's so many of them. 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:44.960 Um most of our kids, at like most places, you know, they didn't go into music. 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:57.039 Um because they were they had lots of different gifts and lots of different and so much support from their parents and so much support from each other's and stuff like that. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:03.839 So, you know, I I have kids who are college music directors. 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:09.839 I have uh uh former piano player who leads the Lawrence Jazz ensemble. 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.839 I mean, uh heart surgeons, uh you name it. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:30.319 Um it's uh we had a young man who uh was a heart surgeon, and his father was our superintendent, and we were at the O'Claire Jazz Festival, and uh John Fattis, I don't know if you remember that. 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.440 Were you there then when John Fattus was the uh clinician? 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:35.519 Before the time, but maybe Chris. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:37.519 Into the fattisphere, yeah. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:47.519 Well, anyway, we're at the big thing in Gatner, the big clinic, and and this young man's got his hand up, and he says, Oh, I'm going, oh no, what's he gonna do? 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:54.720 He was a seventh grader, he played, he was a really, really good player, but he was just a little guy and hadn't gone through his changes to make him stronger. 00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:01.920 But anyway, he raises that his question and he asks the question that you ask at Trumpet workshop. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:03.759 And he said, Mr. 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.400 Fattis, how high can you play? 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.599 And the place erupted. 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.960 And John was so masterful. 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.839 He said, He said, I'm not sure. 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.440 How high can you play? 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:20.240 And the kid said, Well, I can play a D. 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.480 Well, get up here and show us. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.920 And the guy, the kid's like four foot nothing. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.720 And he squeaks out something. 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:34.240 And the place went crazy, you know, because this little kid did what he did. 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:39.200 And his dad, the superintendent of 196, was there. 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:48.400 And I tell you, that did more for support of instrumental music in 196 than anything I can think of. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.319 Nice work, John Fattis. 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:51.039 Nice work. 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:52.160 Right? 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:53.839 That's a great story. 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.319 I love your stories. 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:57.680 Love your stories. 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:02.240 Let's talk about since it's the beginning of the year for so many folks. 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:11.279 What is a strategy or something that you recall, just something you love doing at the beginning of every year? 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:16.000 Um, I love training my band how to rehearse effectively.

00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.599 And it was a training, and we went through kind of a training. 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:26.160 And I had some sayings, like one of my sayings was, don't be that kid, when they would do knucklehead stuff. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.039 And they would they all knew what that meant meant. 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.359 And we talked, um, but we had a lot of laughs in my band. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.160 But when I bring my arms up, they their horns always came up. 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:41.039 And when we ended a tune, they left their horns up until my horns came, my hands came down. 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.000 And I didn't have to get mean about it at all. 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.079 If their horns didn't come up, I would just say, Hey, let's try that again. 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:49.440 Maybe six times. 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:50.400 Hey, let's try it. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:55.920 And then the kids would say, Hey, he means you, you know, and just trying to get them to commute. 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:01.039 And then, and I would say things like, you know, we need everyone to play on that first note. 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.160 There's none of you that are born to beat three. 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.799 I mean, you can all come in on count one and making sure they're breathing through there. 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.960 The whole breathing thing we work on at the beginning of the year. 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:19.119 I would not let them play their horns independently until we did it together, until about October. 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:25.839 And by that time, we had talked a lot about it and said, here's the kind of things I want to hear you playing. 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:33.519 Not blasting in someone's ears, not having a high note contest, not seeing what kind of bodily function noises you can make on your instrument. 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.000 Those all have their time and place, but not when we're together, okay? 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.799 And uh and just like you're laughing, they would laugh too. 00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.319 And then you start to hear kids playing. 00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.480 We okay, I'm gonna give you one minute to play the kinds of things you should play. 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.240 And then I would take that. 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:55.039 I have a thing in rehearsals called alone time. 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.599 And this comes from talking to some of my better players. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.440 And a kid says to me one time, Mr. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:16.079 Green, you know, when we were working on something, we work all together, or you work just on the clarinets, if you would just give us 30 seconds or a minute, a lot of us could could work it out because we just need to do it alone, just to work out our own individual problems. 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:28.240 Now, they didn't say it that eloquently, but anyway, I would say, okay, guys, uh rehearsal or at rehearsal 33, I'm gonna give you 30 seconds of alone time, and let's see what you can do with this. 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:33.200 And they would try to work it out, and you would start hearing those little snippets. 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.160 We call them uh at our school, we call them drill boxes. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:43.599 In their concert music were boxes around the music that were parts that they needed to work on. 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:53.359 And sometimes we would go start a rehearsal, say we're gonna work on this piece, we're gonna start a drill box number seven, and we're gonna do it four times in a row with four beats in between, and we'd rep it. 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:58.799 So you did the boxes before they got the music, you know, they do it, they write them in. 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.720 They all had a pencil in middle school. 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:01.839 You have to do it like this. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.400 Okay, everyone, pick up your pencil. 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:06.079 That's how you start. 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:08.640 You would tell you college isn't much different, John. 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:09.599 Nothing. 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:30.000 We're just older middle schoolers, and we do these drill boxes and we just make and I said now, and you see them in their lesson books too, because in their lesson books, they they're working on just you know stuff that's for their instrument, and you see drill boxes all the time because this kid will say, Well, I like to start at the beginning of a song and play to the end. 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:38.319 And I said, you know, you the beginning's gonna be great, the end's gonna be terrible, and there's gonna be some rough spots. 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:44.480 So we we had this whole drill box concept, and everyone at our school knew what drill boxes were, and they work really well. 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.119 John, you're a huge mentor to so many teachers now that you're retired. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:57.440 You're like a rehearsal junkie, you're out there all the time uh helping anybody that um will let you volunteer in their classroom. 00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:06.799 Um and just listening to you talk about all these examples, um, what are some of the great things you're seeing from younger teachers today? 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:15.119 And if you could talk to all of them collectively and give them one or two things that you see being the biggest thing they could grow at, what would that be? 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:22.240 Well, what I see, first of all, is I, you know, a lot of my concert band judging is done in smaller schools. 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:32.720 And I kind of concentrate mostly south of the Twin Cities simply because I don't like to have to drive through the cities to go somewhere for a seven o'clock report. 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:43.519 So, but anyway, I I'm working and I see so much fabulous teaching that being in my district, I I didn't know existed. 00:27:43.680 -->

00:27:55.599 I had no idea there were so many fine teachers out there that are doing a great job and they they're all by themselves, and you know, it's just first of all, I'm amazed by that. 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:11.920 Um, the thing that I would say is to young teachers is the most important thing you do when you don't have your kids is spend time selecting music that they can be successful at. 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:17.039 I spent more time in my prep selecting music than anything else. 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.119 I was crazy about it. 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.000 Um, I'm doing a jazz chart. 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.359 What's the first thing I look at? 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:25.920 I look at the bass part, I look at the changes. 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.640 If we can't improvise in those changes and I'm a bass player can't play it, it's out. 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:32.960 I don't care how much I like the tune. 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.559 And when I was a younger teacher, oh, I've always wanted to play this tune. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.960 I can't wait for my band to play it. 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.519 You know, well, that that everyone learns that lesson. 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.319 But I would just say spend some time. 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:53.839 Um, really spend some time, you know, preparing and making sure you play things that are gonna be good for your kids. 00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:58.880 There's no one cares if you play grade three or four music. 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:06.079 Your audience certainly doesn't, but they do care and they're gonna feel good if they play it successfully. 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.200 And now a message from our sponsors. 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.519 Anyone can sell you an instrument. 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.960 A true music partner helps you build something bigger. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:21.440 At Hyde Music, they support the educators, families, performers, and advocates who keep music thriving. 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:36.799 For nearly 80 years, their family-owned, musician-operated team has provided instruments, rentals, repairs, educational resources, and creative solutions with personal service every step of the way. 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:39.200 Expect more than a transaction. 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:40.480 Expect a partner. 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:50.000 Learn more at hidemusic.com or visit Hyde Music in Appleton, Green Bay, Madison, Oshkosh, and Stevens Point. 00:29:51.119 --> 00:30:02.000 Grand Tours Incorporated is a trusted leader in designing custom international group concert tours for student and adult music ensembles, setting the standard for traveling with purpose. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:07.200 I know because we use them at Concordia all the time, and when I was a high school teacher as well. 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:15.200 Because they provide authentic music performance opportunities at distinctive venues, and they engage local musicians, conductors, and composers. 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:24.960 Grand Tours! They aim to inspire artistic growth and enable transformative cultural connections through music while creating a sense of family throughout the journey. 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:28.319 Visit Grand Tours online at Grand Tours Inc.com. 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.440 That's Grand ToursInc.com. 00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:37.119 To learn more about their services and request an international tour design specifically for your ensemble. 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:41.759 Can't get enough of me? 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:43.119 Not sick of me yet? 00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:47.519 Come get your master's degree in music education with me at Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota. 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:57.039 We offer a hybrid degree plan so you can keep teaching and getting paid and still have an in-person cohort in the summers to enrich your experience and learn a lot from others as well. 00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:58.640 Already have your masters? 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.519 Prank your less educated colleagues by sending them my way. 00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.559 You got students? 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:04.799 Ship those beautiful children off to Moorhead. 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:09.680 We want your music majors, your non-majors, good kids, bad kids, smart kids, and everything in between. 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:15.839 Music scholarships here are available for all students with an annual deadline of February 1st. 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:21.119 Info about all these options and more can be found at Concordiacollege.edu slash music. 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.720 That's Concordiacollege.edu slash music. 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.599 Or just contact me and I'll take care of it. 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:36.319 So, John, one of my favorite things about you is that you're just a kind person and that you're so easy to spend time with. 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:40.000 And I think that endeared you to your students and to everybody around you. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:48.319 Um, but I'm not sure that I know plenty of teachers that are are great people and I like them, but that doesn't always spell success. 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.359 Um you know, with students. 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:59.200 Um and so one of the things I've noticed when I've seen you give clinics and when I see you work with groups is that you you're a quick study. 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:15.440 Um in other words, as soon as you hear something, there's about it there's a plan that's formulating um and also along with that plan a willingness to pivot or be flexible and change courses quickly if need be. 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.720 I'm wondering if that was something that came instinctive for you when you started teaching, or you had to develop that skill. 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:22.640 I developed that skill. 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.359 I had to I had to develop that skill. 00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:27.680 I had some fabulous mentors. 00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:29.519 I mean, holy cow. 00:32:29.759

--> 00:32:40.319 I mean, the places I've taught, we're we got to many times we had people coming into our our school as clinicians, and I just soaked that up. 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:55.440 And um, in the jazz world, um I got to be friends with Fred Sturm back in the late 70s, and Fred would come over and work with my kids at Manitowac um for dinner. 00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.279 I just had to give him dinner. 00:32:57.599 --> 00:32:58.880 He just had to feed them. 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:00.079 We'll work for food. 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:00.960 He's like a drummer. 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.759 Which was which was hard because he was a vegetarian. 00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:09.039 And if you know John, he's not a vegetarian, so I had to figure something out a lot of macaroni and cheese. 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:19.440 But anyway, I mean, and I always I always think Fred's one of those was one of the kindest persons, made everyone in the room feel fabulous. 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.079 And boy, I I wanted to do that. 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:32.000 I wanted to be like I know I couldn't be like him, but I had to have my own version of Fred Sturm, and he was pretty powerful uh mentor in my life. 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:34.559 Who are some other mentors like that for you? 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:39.200 Well, along that same line, see, I was a huge Matrix fan growing up in Wisconsin. 00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.279 I don't know if you guys know the band Matrix. 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:42.720 Yeah, I'm sure Phil does. 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:52.079 And um I was I I got called at the last minute in my second year teaching to be a teacher at the Green Bay Jazz Camp. 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.519 And I was thrilled. 00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:04.079 I was so thrilled, but not as thrilled as I was when I got to got there, and I get to share like one of those student condo area uh things I had, those fourplexes. 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:11.679 And um my roommate were my roommates were Tex, who's the lead player for Matrix, and John Harmon. 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.159 Oh wow, you know, every summer I do the Red Lodge Music Festival with John Harmon. 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:16.719 Oh my god. 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:17.760 It still goes out there. 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.320 It's still he's made anyway early. 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.280 Yeah. 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:22.079 Anyway, keep going. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.719 And so they were in my head and in my ears, and and John was my piano players were studying with John. 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.480 Because uh from Manitowak to Winnick County, it wasn't that far. 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.199 And so, you know, that was fabulous. 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:39.360 And it's then my last year there, we had John write a suite for the band. 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.119 And the funny story is we're having we're gonna have our dress rehearsal in this. 00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:50.000 We had a big, big rehearsal hall at uh our uh auditorium, at 1600 seat auditorium at Manitowoc. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.039 And I'm getting ready in my office, and some kids come in. 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:53.840 Hey, Mr. 00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:01.840 Green, one of the custodians is playing the piano in the in the PAC, but but he's really good. 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.519 It was John, he's got his jeans on and his jean jacket and stuff with a Packer jersey underneath, of course. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.239 You know, I love it. 00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:13.280 That's great. 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:16.480 Uh, did you ever tell John that they thought he was a custodian? 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.079 Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. 00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:19.360 I love that too. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:23.440 He did uh he did an artist in residence in at St. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:33.360 Olaf a couple uh years ago, and I got to reconnect with him, which was was really, really fun because yeah, I mean he's amazing to do an arrangement. 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:41.360 Oh, and what huge ears, so humble, and he sounds like no other piano player. 00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:42.320 It's true. 00:35:42.559 --> 00:36:03.599 And it this summer camp in um he teaches basic improv classes to these kids, and then he also coaches there's uh kids can audition to be part of the the top high school jazz combo, and they just get to work with John for an hour and a half a day for a whole week and then go out, and it's just magnificent how much at what is he 94? 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:09.599 He's like 94, and he still shows up there with his wife, and his son comes, of course. 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:22.719 And yeah, um, and I'm just like, there's so many things you could be doing, John, at 94 in Montana right now, other than working with this kid playing the bass clarinet that can't find their way out of a 12-bar blues if and you've been trying to help him all week. 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.199 And he is just helpful. 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.639 Oh, it's just amazing to watch the power of relationship and music. 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:29.199 It's great. 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:36.719 I mean, that that whole the whole thing that he started Lawrence with the jazz program, I mean, it's it's just amazing. 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:57.440 And the students did, and then I was gonna talk about and i in in the concert band world, um um being a Manitowoc in summers I would go down to the the conducting workshop at Northwestern Um University with John Painter, which was very humbling. 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:10.000 And is like me, and then sitting next to me is Mallory Thompson, and because she was a student, you know, and um I had a good friend, uh one of my college roommates, uh Don Schleicher, who went through that program. 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:11.280 Oh wow, yeah, yeah. 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.000 Yeah. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.639 Yeah, Don Schleicher is a point guy. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:15.599 Yeah. 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.079

Look at you just growing for everybody. 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:19.840 That's just crazy. 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.480 So I'm just a little, I'm a little bit of a lot of people. 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:26.639 I don't know how original I am in anything, but I've had some pretty amazing people. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.280 Phil, Phil is a mentor of mine. 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:55.280 When I would go to Eau Claire Jazz Festival and I was not participating as a judge or as a participant, I would find out whatever room Phil Alstrander was in, and I would go there and I would listen to his comments because he was filling my bag of tricks and my whole philosophy about making rich comments. 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:57.760 I would go listen to Phil work with bands. 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.960 And that means I mean you're blowing me up here, buddy. 00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:03.599 Uh that's okay. 00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.199 Peter Chris will bring me back to Earth. 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:05.840 It's all right. 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:06.159 We bought it. 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:14.000 I watched him do this with the uh middle school band festival every year, and he he uh he writes that ship from whatever he's doing at the jazz festival. 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.360 He like brings that back in the club. 00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:24.719 Even Steven, yeah, he uses it all up in uh in early April, and by the time it gets to late May, it's over. 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:25.280 Nothing. 00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:28.719 Yeah, the college kids that usually go watch him are like, really? 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:29.840 Is that how it's done? 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.599 I'm like, no, no, it's not. 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:43.599 Um John, uh uh you spend a lot of time, like Peter mentioned, mentoring oh, teachers of all ages at this point. 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.840 Um and I know when you taught, it's not all roses. 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:56.719 You know, you've got struggles with parents, with certain students, with budgets, with um enrollment, with I mean, all sorts of struggles. 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:01.519 How did you keep from letting all of those struggles sort of like take over? 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:08.639 Uh and instead of you know, uh seeing all the positives, how did you avoid sort of getting uh quagmired with the negatives? 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.599 It's because my favorite thing to do every day was rehearse my groups and teach lessons. 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:26.159 That's I mean, I'm a rehearsal guy, I love rehearsals, I love lessons, I love small group sectionals, I love any of that kind of stuff way more than concert and performances. 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:34.960 Um, and in middle school, honestly, your best moments, and Chris might agree with this, your best musical moments probably happened in a rehearsal. 00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:38.559 Um it's just kind of the nature of the beast. 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:44.320 And if a middle school teacher isn't saying that, I think they're they're not being honest with themselves. 00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:56.000 Um, so that other stuff, no matter what was going on, I always got to go rehearse someone that day, or I always got to go do a sectional or or do a midday group or something like that. 00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:57.920 And that that always fed me. 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.599 So it's just the other stuff was just yeah, part of the job, everyone's got to do it. 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:03.440 And yeah. 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:06.320 John, uh let me ask you this. 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.360 Uh just one more here, Peter Peter, real quick. 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:34.400 We just finished writing the new Wisconsin music standards, and part of the thing that just changed when it came to uh the concept of performance or expression is that there is an emphasis on individual growth, just as there is an emphasis on larger ensemble, and that there is a distinction there, that we have to hold that friction. 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:43.840 Um, because and I hear you talking about there's large ensemble, full classroom learning and exploration, but then you also talk about the concept of lessons. 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:48.400 And I understand fully that not every program has a lesson program. 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:58.159 However, there is a reality in which kids have to grow as musicians in their own way, on their own instrument, their own pedagogy. 00:40:58.400 --> 00:40:59.920 And can you speak to that a little bit? 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.679 Like how did you see that play out in your career? 00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:12.559 Well, you know, that's especially hard in middle school because a middle schooler's number one goal every day at school is not to be embarrassed. 00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:26.559 So if you are asking them to take risks, especially like Chris says, as an individual, and maybe be expressive or artistic, um, boy, that's that's a huge one. 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:36.000 But I think that as long at that age age level that we're planting seeds, we're giving them an example of how to, we got to give them tools. 00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:40.880 I mean, how many times have people written like on a solo ensemble form be more expressive? 00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:42.960 Well, that's silly. 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:45.199 How should I be more expressive? 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:47.679 Do you want me to use contour dynamics? 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:49.840 Should I be more rubato at times? 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.519 Should I stress notes? 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:53.920 Um, should you want me to do things more rhythmically? 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.840 You want to be me to do more directional things with my rhythms and how I group things? 00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.360 Give them some tools. 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.960 Don't just say be more expressive, because that's just like like telling an artist to paint better. 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:06.960 Oh my god, write that down.

00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:08.880 This is so good. 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:15.119 Everything you even say to us is like, I'm gonna be better, I'm gonna be better on Wednesday and rehearsal because of this, John. 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:15.920 I love that. 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:17.440 That's just silly. 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:31.039 Um, okay, I just wanted to get this up because I we're our time's running low, but I know that we talked about the superintendent dad earlier, and we just talked a little bit about um administration as well and meetings. 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:43.920 And I know that you had a big role, though probably behind the scenes more at 196, that's really molded and helped to maintain that program and with lessons and numbers and all that stuff. 00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.360 Um it's so you've always been a teacher. 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.559 Obviously, the teaching feeds your soul, that's what I hear you saying. 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:56.800 But you are a not just a band whisperer, you're also like an administrator whisperer. 00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:13.280 Like, how did you learn that skill, or how if you could tell your younger self what you know now about administrators and how to work with administrators for the benefit of the students, how how would you coach your younger self? 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:21.519 Just like with your kids and you communicate and you try to get things in the bank, you have to do that in a sincere way with your administrator. 00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:23.119 You gotta get them in your room. 00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:27.440 You just gotta get them in your room so because you're they're gonna see the great things you can do. 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:35.119 Um, I would tell my my administrators, I please don't evaluate me by how my concert goes. 00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:39.599 The real meat and potatoes of what we do as teachers happens in the classroom every day. 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:46.719 Watch me greet kids as they come in the door, watch me as I as the kids leave my classroom, watch me out in the hallway with kids. 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.400 All these things is what puts it together. 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:56.239 And then as teachers, we're gonna get some yeses and some no's from our administrator. 00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.760 And we can't get five yeses in a row. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:06.559 And then get a no, and then all of a sudden we're sitting there and we're saying how bad an administrator this is. 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:13.440 It's like I think sometimes as teachers, we are like the charter members of the what have you done for me lately club? 00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:16.639 And there's a history there. 00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:17.280 Yeah. 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:29.360 I mean, you know, so build the administrators, you just gotta be you gotta keep building that and you gotta kind of, you know, subtly educating them on what you do, why it's important, why it's valuable. 00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:40.239

And they may not get the musical stuff, but they'll get the thing the stuff that's gonna make their kids better citizens, better citizens in their school, leaders in their school. 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:46.559 Um, and the smart administrators, they realize this, and Chris can talk about this. 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:57.039 When you need parent support as a principal, the band parents are about the first place you go because they've already, you know, they're already there for you. 00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:59.119 Yeah, that and chess club. 00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:00.960 Chess club's big, that's a huge one. 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:04.000 But uh yeah, band's up there, maybe number two. 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.119 Oh my gosh. 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:07.920 Okay, John. 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:12.960 So uh gentlemen, uh, other you want, I mean, we can make this go three hours with John Green. 00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:14.320 It's easy, as you can see. 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.400 I've got myself uh a speed run here. 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:17.199 Are we ready for that? 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:19.519 Or do we have some more burning questions? 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:21.119 Yeah, no, I think that's fine. 00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.920 Go speed run, but you try to make it speedy. 00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:26.239 You're usually kind of okay. 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:32.800 This is from the guy that had the three and a half minute question that almost wasn't a question, and then you ended up saying what do you have to say about that? 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:43.920 Okay, um, so uh John had told me that he stopped listening to rock and roll in the late 70s because he got really got really stopped petting that rock. 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:49.599 Um he got really into listening to jazz and classical music, you know, and and uh once he started teaching. 00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.079 So, but he's a big fan of classic rock, and as you can see, the guitars behind him, he loves to play. 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:57.519 So I have the label, I put the label lamp on for you guys. 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:00.480 It's a 70s film, yeah. 00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.400 So we got a speed round here, 70s rock tune speed round. 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.199 Are you ready? 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:06.079 Here we go. 00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.360 Yeah, John, Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd? 00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:13.760 Um, it's a hard one, but but uh Led Zeppelin. 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:14.639 Led Zeppelin. 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:14.880 Okay. 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.760 Jimmy Jimmy Page is Jimmy Page is the reason why. 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:18.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:20.239 The really guitar player. 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:24.880 Uh best album opening riff of the 1970s. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:27.920 Boy, I like so many of them. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:34.719 Um right now I'm working on one from Heart, uh, the opening riff to Crazy on You. 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:35.440 Oh, yeah. 00:46:35.599

--> 00:46:44.960 It's it's an acoustic guitar riff, and uh the woman who plays it, I can't remember her name because I'm really bad with people and bands' names, but man, unbelievable. 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:48.800 Most underrated 70s rock guitarist. 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.440 Easy Terry Kath, Chicago. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:00.960 Terry Kat, Chicago was basically got their big break when they got to be the front band for Jimi Hendrix. 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:07.760 Jimi Hendrix hung out with Terry Kath, and Jimi Hendrix said, He's better than me. 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.800 Cool. 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:11.119 Uh okay, just a few more. 00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:16.159 Vinyl, cassette, or eight-track preferred 70s medium. 00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:22.639 Vinyl, unless you have a popsicle stick to stick in the side of the eight-track to make sure it's tracking correctly. 00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:27.119 This is what we did. 00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:28.320 Wow. 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:33.519 Exactly. 00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:39.519 Uh, best live album, Frampton Comes Alive or Alive by KISS. 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.440 Oh, Frampton Comes Alive. 00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:45.360 Okay, yeah, it's um KISS KISS is more production. 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:51.119 I mean, you know, um, you know, I don't I'm not sure how much authentic soul. 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:56.559 I hope I'm not gonna, you know, alienate your KISS audience out there, but yeah. 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.159 Yeah, we're gonna get a lot of things. 00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:05.599 Which band defined the decade more for you, Queen or Fleetwood Mac? 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:17.280 You know, I would have said Queen um probably 10 years ago, but I've really gotten to appreciate Fleetwood Mac um since I play guitar. 00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:31.599 And um some pretty incredible stuff is going on there that's it's it's kind of understated, but there's a complexity to the understatement that's actually pretty amazing. 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:39.440 And um and the the way they work the layers and stuff, it's I I would again Queen's more highly produced. 00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:40.000 Sure. 00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.039 Can you tell that John doesn't like highly produced stuff? 00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:46.639 Yeah, and you like you like the you like the singer-songwriter stuff. 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:48.239 It's gotta be real art behind it. 00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:52.880 If it's not real art behind it, you smell it coming and kind of broadcast. 00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:53.599 Three more. 00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:57.280 It's just like okay, highly produced, not this podcast. 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:58.239 Uh, three more. 00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:02.400 If you could steal one front man's voice for a day, who would it be? 00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:04.000 Robert Plant. 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:06.480 Shastakovich or Mahler? 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:08.079 Shostakovich. 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:18.320 And the last I I got to play, I got to play the Tippany part to Shosti V in uh Central Wisconsin Symphony. 00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:25.760 My progression teacher let me do that, and that was like, oh my god, it's just hard to play because your body's just so consumed by goosebumps. 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:27.039 And yeah. 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:43.679 And then in the finale of the fifth movement, that that resolution um that what before it goes into D mate, it's just like the that right before the Maestoso, oh, how can you not have goosebumps when that happens? 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:47.039 That's just my that's one of my favorite moments in classical music. 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:55.039 Uh well, or concordia orchestra is doing Shosti Five right now, and uh there's a lot of great moments coming out of that over trying to get work done. 00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:58.639 And that would usually be our last one, but I have one more because of our earlier conversation. 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:00.719 Schurnberg or Ives? 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.760 Jeez. 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.920 I think Ives is much more accessible, that's true, and not overproduced. 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.840 And you know, and maybe I don't understand. 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:19.840 All I remember about Schoenberg's theme and variations is I'm a freshman, and this is pieces, too long. 00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:22.480 Yeah. 00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:24.079 I love it. 00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:25.679 Uh John. 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:27.599 I got one more serious question, Peter. 00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:28.719 You can relax, just take it easy. 00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:30.320 You did a great job with the speed round. 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:31.760 It was pretty speedy for you. 00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:55.840 Um uh, John, we've been, it's not a theme for our season or anything, but almost all of our guests we've been asking them about um how we're going to have to evolve as um music teachers in um sort of spreading our gospel and so that the people know what's going on, why it's good, um, so that uh music education survives um into the future. 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:02.719 And I'm wondering if you have a thought about how how we can do that as teachers, you know, better publicize and share what it is that we do. 00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:04.239 Okay, a couple things. 00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.039 First of all, like what I said before, we all need each other. 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:12.400 That thing about whole the margin arts would look at each other cross-eyed years ago. 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:14.960 That goes across a whole music spectrum. 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:16.559 We need each other. 00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:24.559 And to that end, many times we'll have budget cuts threatened or something in a school district. 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:30.159 And what do the animals do when their water hole starts to dry up? 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.360 They look at each other differently, and that can't happen. 00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:36.559 That can't happen.

00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:52.400 That's not to say, well, you band guys always got this, or you you've got to come together and it's gotta be a unified one because if the people making decisions can get the vocal against the instrumental, against the general music, and divide you, they can just sit back and watch it all. 00:51:52.719 --> 00:52:06.559 But if they're all united together, they're gonna be so much more powerful, and they might get closer as a result and realize they're not as different as they may seem, and it could be a really good thing for the kids too. 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:06.960 Great. 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.360 See, there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.199 And right there is wisdom, people. 00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:11.840 Write that down. 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.480 John Green, great to to reconnect and just uh get to chat. 00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:18.480 You are uh fantastic. 00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:20.480 You are I knew your dad. 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.400 I knew your dad you knew my dad. 00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.320 Yeah, when I taught in Ellsworth, yeah. 00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:27.440 John, what was your what was your first gig out of the gate? 00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:29.119 Was it middle school or was it high school? 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.119 Um Manswonk Lincoln, uh assistant band director. 00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:33.679 Okay. 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:34.079 Wow. 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:41.679 So it was a large high school with a an amazing head guy, Dean Turkleson, who taught me so much. 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:52.320 John, you must feel that your time spent in small town teaching in probably helped when you were sort of in a large suburban, you know, uh kind of bigger city kind of environment. 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:53.360 It did. 00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:53.840 Yeah. 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.440 Um, but I wasn't really a small town guy. 00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.880 And I'll tell you why. 00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:00.559 I was born in Chicago. 00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:07.119 We moved to Wisconsin when I was six, because Wisconsin was beautiful, and we lived on the south side of Chicago. 00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:09.840 That's not an exaggeration, that's where we live. 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:22.800 And um even though the environment of where I went to school and grew up had a big effect on me, I don't think it had as big effect as having two parents who were born and raised in Chicago did. 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:29.280 Because I always thought there had to be something else. 00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:30.480 Yeah, something more. 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:30.960 I don't know. 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:32.320 And not a good or bad thing. 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:36.159 I loved heck, I got to do everything in high school. 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:41.039 Um, you know, I played football, I was a basketball player, I was a golfer, I was in the plays, I was in band. 00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:45.679 I mean, you know, I would never have gotten to do that in some of the places I've taught. 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.440 Um, but having parents that were city folks gave me kind of some balance there. 00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:53.199 Awesome. 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:56.639 Man, every time you speak, I learn something. 00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:57.199 It's crazy. 00:53:58.079 --> 00:53:58.400 I know. 00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:00.639 I want to keep John up for the next hour. 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:01.440 No. 00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:06.159 And the cool thing is when he's in a room, he always gets the other people to start speaking. 00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:08.159 They don't realize how much he's moving them. 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:09.760 You're just absolutely amazing. 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:19.119 And um it's you're a gift to the our community and anybody that is lucky enough to ask you, and you can go to their room. 00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:21.519 I don't know why everybody's not calling. 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:23.280 It's probably because they don't have your number. 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:25.440 But if they do, they should be calling. 00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:36.320 You uh I just also have to I have to thank John because so many of the great students that I've taught in my career um at Eau Claire have been former students of John's. 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:44.239 Uh and they are they all are marvelous players, wonderful individuals, and now many of them are great teachers in their own right. 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:50.559 Um and uh every one of them just uh can't say enough good things about you, John Green. 00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:52.239 Well, I appreciate that. 00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.760 I mean, it's it's was the right choice. 00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.000 I mean, it's been it's been a fun career. 00:54:58.880 --> 00:54:59.599 That guy. 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:00.159 Yeah. 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:00.719 That guy. 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:01.679 Yeah, it's a get. 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:02.960 And it was a good get. 00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:04.320 Last job, Peter. 00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.199 I mean, we just spent what, 15 minutes? 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:21.679 He he's telling not only just stories, but we're laughing, and everything that comes out of his mouth is like you could spend a week just thinking about that phrase and how truthful it is. 00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.639 And it's just love that guy. 00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:25.840 Super job, Peter. 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:28.239 I'm embarrassed that I didn't think to get him on here sooner. 00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.199 Yeah, well, I'm better than you are, but that's okay. 00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:32.719 That was a good one. 00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:36.480 There's that Peter Hobberman humility that I've been craving all weekend. 00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:37.920 Unlike John Green. 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.280 Unlike John Green. 00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:40.559 Oh man. 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:43.360 But think about all the amazing.

00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:48.000 I mean, just start with music educators that came out of his 196 middle school. 00:55:48.159 --> 00:55:51.199 You know, and he taught with just some amazing teachers. 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.079 And uh everybody's better for spending time with John. 00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:58.159 Well, and so much history connected to so many people and so many places. 00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.159 I mean, that's the Kevin Bacon thing again, too. 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:00.400 You can't. 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.239 But you know, he'd never been in a jazz band. 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:09.039 I mean, he's such a quick study, never been in a jazz band, third drummer in jazz three at stout at Stevens Point. 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:13.039 Um, but has his great programs, connects with Fred, right? 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:17.519 He's going off to things in the summer to learn to be a better conductor at Northwestern. 00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:27.599 Like he's a lifelong learner, and he's just soaking up the room and not just what people say, he's reading people in the room. 00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:32.320 And I mean, I think that's why everybody connects so well with him. 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:40.639 Is he's already, I mean, I don't want to say manipulated, that's it has a name, but he's already understands how he needs to say it so you'll get it. 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:41.519 You know what I mean? 00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:44.800 He's just such a yeah, a guru. 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:46.480 Just such a guru. 00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:48.079 Anyway. 00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:50.880 There's the XL. 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:51.199 Good. 00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:52.159 All right, nice job, though. 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:54.320 Um, hey, we have a boozler. 00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:57.039 Bamboozler. 00:56:57.920 --> 00:56:59.039 Bamboozler. 00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.159 Uh this is a beginning of the year band boozler. 00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:06.800 Uh it says the letter is Dear Artless, which I think is really profound. 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:08.159 Actually, it started that way. 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.039 I've got a question for you, uh, the hosts. 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:15.440 In those early days of rehearsing a new piece, what do you start with? 00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:16.800 Notes or rhythms? 00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:26.159 I mean, do you focus on first getting the right pitches in the right places, or do you establish the rhythmic foundation before worrying too much about whether everyone's on the correct notes? 00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:31.440 And of course, I'm fully prepared for you all to disagree with each other. 00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:35.119 I love that idea. 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:36.159 I'm not starting. 00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:37.360 Who wants to start? 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:38.480 Christopher, how about you? 00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:39.119 What do you do in the street? 00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:40.159 Of course, you never start. 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:40.559 Come on. 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:41.199 That's right. 00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:42.880 I asked, I answered the questions. 00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:47.039 I would say that there are a number of charts and people that would say rhythm. 00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:52.400 Um, and I know that's difficult, especially for especially for me. 00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:57.199 I would say, well, it's it's tough because I want kind of, I'm greedy. 00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:58.159 I want it all. 00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.920 The thing I would say is this though. 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:09.599 What I've learned through teaching is I when I first started, I would just play a recording and then I'd just say start at the top, and we'd just collapse and fall apart. 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:16.960 Later in the years, I got more strategic with it, where I would pull the melody out and have everyone learn the melody. 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:18.000 Absolutely. 00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:30.880 And in a way, uh well, right, and getting kids to actually uh argue, well, not purposely argue, but to really make value judgments about how the melody was created, where they think the peak is. 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:36.400 Like we're already shaping and making music out of this long before we sight read the piece. 00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:42.159 So in that essence, I guess we're kind of doing both, but I guess I would say rhythm if I had to be pinned down. 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:45.760 Yeah, it's the only time that the Tremon players will play the melody. 00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:55.679 If I was a if I was back teaching in younger, I would have, I would make my own lead sheet with melodies, the the rhythms that everybody should be ready to play. 00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:57.039 I don't care what part they're in. 00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:59.360 It's a great way to warm up. 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:08.880 Uh, the bigger meta for me is before I answer that question, nobody should see something in the music for the first time that they don't already know. 00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:17.199 You shouldn't see notes that you haven't seen before, you shouldn't see rhythms you don't already understand, you shouldn't see articulations or anything. 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:21.360 Otherwise, you're asking them to decode instead of create. 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:23.840 Decode instead of create. 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:36.079 And I just that's such a huge thing that if you're setting your kids up by like putting something in front of them that they haven't seen before and they don't understand the key signature or they don't understand the rhythms, you it that's over. 00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:41.440 And the other thing is like Chris said, I I used to start at the beginning and now I don't. 00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:52.400 The younger the group, the more we start where everybody's playing whatever, measure 21, and we all go through maybe it's eight or sixteen bars together, and we get the style and the feel. 00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.960 I

do think rhythm is more important than the right notes. 00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:59.679 Because you can get wrong notes with the right rhythm and go back and fix it. 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:03.519 But if you're all playing at the wrong time with the right notes, it's sounds like sure. 01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:21.039 Sorry, I got on my hobby horse because I got my young conductors starting our third concert band, and they just wanna, you know, and as you get older, you can start at the beginning, right? 01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:26.000 My college kids and even our third band can start at the beginning and go to the end. 01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:32.639 And then we go back and work in sections where we all play because they're mature enough to get the context. 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:41.280 My issue with it isn't it is about rhythm, but it's how we approach rhythm that is the problem for me. 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:46.079 And that yes, you could clap the rhythm, you could say it, you could play it on one note. 01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:53.840 There's all these great ways of doing it, but that has still not uh to date for me in the last 20 years solved the problem. 01:00:54.079 --> 01:01:09.760 And so for me, the true grasp on why the piece is hard rhythmically comes from when you ask them to either say or play the rhythm on one note while tapping their foot, or say or play it play the rhythm while conducting in 4-4. 01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:17.599 And then they realize just yeah, the concept of how a steady pulse relates to the rhythm is really the crux issue. 01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:21.920 It's not that the rhythm is too hard, because anybody can sort of you can parrot back a rhythm. 01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:33.199 I think anybody can fake it, fake it through the rhythm, but can't can you feel it, feel the pulse in your body somewhere, and also feel that rhythm that's inside the music. 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:46.400 I mean, in a big man, you'd say if you could feel the time or play in the pocket or in the groove, but even uh if we're I just said this on Friday, I was like, you need to create time with your fingers and tongue with how you're playing. 01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:53.519 You're so in the pulse that you're creating time on each 16th note, not just on the down beats and smooshy smushy. 01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:54.400 That's good. 01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:55.119 I like that. 01:01:55.280 --> 01:02:03.119 Um, commuter, wherever you are right now, I want you to respond to uh this podcast uh if you agree with this. 01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:14.480 And that is how many of you who uh teach middle school or who have seen said middle school marching band have seen a percussionist playing directly on the pulse, but marching completely off the pulse. 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:15.360 Oh God. 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:16.239 Oh god. 01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:17.679 It's the best. 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:18.880 I they're just wandering. 01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:21.119 They're not marching, they're wandering. 01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:22.800 They're playing so complex. 01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:28.320 Like I think kids like they're marching in 3-8 and they're playing the perfect. 01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:30.320 I'm like, how are you doing this? 01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:31.360 How is it possible? 01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:33.119 It's just not in their body, yeah. 01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:33.599 Right? 01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:34.880 I got a hot take. 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:37.519 I think we should bring back sight reading at festival. 01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:39.119 That's a hot take. 01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.119 I mean, the reason I think that is we're too much. 01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:46.400 You know what I would like to is I'd like Peter to judge it every time it happens in every festival everywhere. 01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:48.000 I think most festivals they asked. 01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:49.599 If that's what it takes, I would do it. 01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:51.280 If that's what it takes, I would do it. 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.639 Most often we're sight reading at festivals. 01:02:56.159 --> 01:02:59.920 Even though we had been rehearsing for three months, it was still sight reading. 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:10.400 I just I just think right now, talking about cleaning with John Green, we're what gets the score is the clean, not creating musicians. 01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:12.719 And I think we should be creating musicians. 01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:20.079 Man, when he started talking about how much he loves re rehearsal, man, I was just like, that's my guy right there. 01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:22.480 You know, he likes the journey. 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:24.159 He's all in for the journey. 01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.880 Love it. 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:26.320 He's all in on the people. 01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:28.719 It's about the people and the growth. 01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.519 He's just God, he's a better human than we are. 01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:32.159 That's right. 01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:36.400 Uh, gentlemen, the only way you get out of this podcast tonight is another exit ticket. 01:03:36.559 --> 01:03:36.960 That's right. 01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.320 Tell me one thing that you learned from John Green that you're taking with you. 01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:43.199 Well, some of the best things he said, we weren't recording what he said. 01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:45.679 I'm gonna take those. 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:46.559 I've got one. 01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:47.360 I've got one. 01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:50.239 One is middle school kids don't care what's on TV. 01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:52.639 They're only concerned about what else is on TV. 01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.199 That was one where it was that while we were recording, though. 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:58.320 Did he say middle school kids don't do Schoenberg? 01:03:58.400 --> 01:03:59.119 Was that no? 01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:00.880 No, no, they do Sternberg. 01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:02.639 Without trying. 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.800 That's the best Schoenberg there is. 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:08.559 Or Ives, I guess, probably, to be honest. 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:11.360 Oh, Peter, your exit ticket sucks. 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.800 Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:23.679 Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:27.679 Visit BTN MusicFestival dot com to learn more.