บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Finding Your Voice: Creativity, Calling & Using the Gifts God Gave You

01:40.733 [SPEAKER_00]: I would create a process, this is what happened to him. 01:41.233 --> 01:46.855 [SPEAKER_00]: So just, you know, we, we were in, I think you like Max had room to think of it. 01:46.895 --> 01:49.836 [SPEAKER_00]: Wake up last night and got home about one this morning. 01:49.856 --> 01:50.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 01:50.396 --> 01:52.457 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's been a full full day for both of us. 01:52.497 --> 01:54.818 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this might be wheels off. 01:54.878 --> 01:56.419 [SPEAKER_00]: We might get in a huge fight here. 01:57.239 --> 01:57.979 [SPEAKER_00]: you need a nap. 01:58.580 --> 02:00.560 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we'll see how it goes. 02:00.940 --> 02:01.841 [SPEAKER_02]: As if you don't. 02:01.981 --> 02:03.081 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I would love one. 02:03.321 --> 02:04.081 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you look. 02:04.122 --> 02:11.724 [SPEAKER_00]: The plan is just talk about both of us kind of have creative gifts, but they play out in different spaces. 02:11.784 --> 02:13.525 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we'll talk a little bit about 02:14.085 --> 02:15.907 [SPEAKER_00]: Sermon series and writing sermons. 02:15.927 --> 02:29.658 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about songwriting and making spaces beautiful and writing and notice that like I've just got this one lane and Miss super freeway over there's got about six. 02:29.898 --> 02:34.262 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like we're going to talk about my preaching and then you're creative and other you write books. 02:34.482 --> 02:34.982 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's true. 02:35.002 --> 02:35.483 [SPEAKER_00]: I do write. 02:35.790 --> 02:42.817 [SPEAKER_02]: I would love for you to first talk about creativity as Christians and then what creativity. 02:43.517 --> 02:45.639 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what it shows us about God. 02:45.699 --> 02:49.082 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, kind of give it the knowledge of creativity. 02:49.443 --> 02:50.003 [SPEAKER_02]: Could you do that? 02:50.103 --> 02:50.604 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I can. 02:50.644 --> 02:52.025 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel on this part, but kind of. 02:55.088 --> 03:17.357 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think creativity is a gift given to those made in the image of God alone like God's creativity is on display in horses and dogs and sunsets and mountain ranges, but what he's given to us is image bears if we go back to the cultural mandate in Genesis chapter 2, fill the earth 03:24.320 --> 03:40.611 [SPEAKER_00]: and to order it in such a way that civilizations are built, beauty is gazed upon, got us seen in the beauty of the creative process, and so creativity belongs to image bears, and we use our creativity. 03:40.631 --> 03:42.072 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever lane it's in, 03:43.772 --> 03:46.673 [SPEAKER_00]: to point out the beauty and goodness of God. 03:46.733 --> 04:01.757 [SPEAKER_00]: So chefs do that, and their combination of flavors, and tastes, and textures, and even the way, maybe something's plated, which is something I didn't know existed growing up, oh, plated, what does that mean? 04:02.237 --> 04:03.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. 04:03.778 --> 04:06.879 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't know, that's just where they make it look really good on the way. 04:06.919 --> 04:08.799 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they make it pretty much the way you 04:12.657 --> 04:15.599 [SPEAKER_02]: It's basically like a sauce or something. 04:15.639 --> 04:15.840 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 04:15.860 --> 04:16.000 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 04:16.020 --> 04:20.343 [SPEAKER_00]: So they smudge the sauce versus just lock the sauce on there. 04:20.363 --> 04:22.264 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's how I grew up. 04:22.445 --> 04:34.414 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think of course painters and singers and people who are in design and people who use words to convey the beauty and goodness of God to the world. 04:34.754 --> 04:37.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether those are explicitly Christian or not, 04:37.867 --> 04:45.057 [SPEAKER_00]: beauty is a Christian virtue that we put on display for the glory of God because we're made in his image. 04:45.558 --> 04:50.806 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be kind of a high level theology of creativity and what it's been given for. 04:51.106 --> 04:53.490 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think everyone is creative? 04:54.298 --> 05:01.080 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a spectrum of creativity and you can get into like left brain right brain all of that. 05:01.140 --> 05:13.945 [SPEAKER_00]: There are people who both in their wiring, something in Psalm 139, and in their spiritual gifts are going to be more what I would call trellis. 05:14.745 --> 05:16.746 [SPEAKER_00]: people then vying people. 05:17.466 --> 05:21.969 [SPEAKER_00]: And so trellis would be the support mechanism for a vying to grow on. 05:22.649 --> 05:32.454 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would put creatives in that vying category where it can grow in all kinds of different ways, but it will need the support of the trellis. 05:32.734 --> 05:33.875 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't 05:34.975 --> 05:43.240 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to take someone, I guess, administration and organization can be creative in and of itself. 05:43.400 --> 05:44.200 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it. 05:44.301 --> 05:52.385 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to be creative to take something super complex and create a trellis on it for the vine to grow. 05:52.465 --> 05:57.288 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think you can say we all have some aspect of creating it. 05:57.828 --> 06:01.711 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there are domains that people don't think, oh, that's a creative process. 06:04.543 --> 06:04.843 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 06:05.004 --> 06:17.275 [SPEAKER_02]: So I have another podcast that I'm going to call make sure it and it's about creativity and we would say that because we're made in the image of God and we image him in his creativity we are all creators. 06:17.295 --> 06:18.376 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 06:18.456 --> 06:23.040 [SPEAKER_02]: And we are made to create something and share it to make it and

share it. 06:23.921 --> 06:32.390 [SPEAKER_02]: for the good of others, for the glory of God, and I would say there's a beauty to a good looking spreadsheet or order. 06:32.470 --> 06:34.312 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like God is God. 06:34.332 --> 06:35.914 [SPEAKER_02]: And I order not came on. 06:35.954 --> 06:40.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm rejoicing and have gladness in my heart for those who have that gift. 06:40.699 --> 06:40.959 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 06:41.279 --> 06:43.602 [SPEAKER_00]: So I go a little cross-eyed with spreadsheets. 06:43.962 --> 06:46.786 [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, it's one of those where I can do it for a little bit. 06:47.066 --> 06:49.149 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you ask me do that, if that's my job. 06:49.169 --> 06:51.272 [SPEAKER_02]: Every day, all day, could not. 06:51.292 --> 06:54.976 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to, I'm going to be a little crusty if that's my job. 06:55.016 --> 06:57.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but clearly, that's not your job. 06:57.660 --> 06:59.742 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I praise God for those with that gift. 06:59.782 --> 07:00.203 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 07:00.343 --> 07:01.524 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it takes all of us. 07:01.584 --> 07:02.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Mutual submission. 07:02.444 --> 07:07.407 [SPEAKER_00]: And so happy to let them use their creativity to serve my creative. 07:07.487 --> 07:08.448 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get a picture. 07:08.508 --> 07:08.708 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:09.148 --> 07:15.432 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe the trellis and the vine are both creative, but they're kind of in two different realms of creativity. 07:15.632 --> 07:16.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's fair. 07:16.752 --> 07:17.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:17.053 --> 07:17.833 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fair. 07:18.313 --> 07:27.939 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about the main place that you work your creativity out is the oil painting that you do. 07:30.241 --> 07:31.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, see, she's trying to start a fight. 07:32.286 --> 07:34.771 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I am, can we tell the read story? 07:35.882 --> 07:36.963 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 07:37.123 --> 07:37.523 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yes. 07:37.543 --> 07:50.154 [SPEAKER_00]: When Reed was a little boy, I mean, little like five years old, six years old, he would always want to sit by Lauren at dinner and Lauren would take a napkin and she would draw this truck with the dog in the back. 07:50.334 --> 07:50.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right? 07:51.215 --> 07:51.435 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 07:51.495 --> 07:56.420 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was actually, it was a Chinese restaurant and they had those little magnadudos. 07:56.740 --> 07:57.320 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's right. 07:57.340 --> 07:58.001 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's right. 07:58.021 --> 08:00.283 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like the kind of, you can have to do that. 08:00.463 --> 08:01.444 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a magnadudos. 08:01.484 --> 08:02.385 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a magnadudos. 08:03.293 --> 08:13.276 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a magnadoodle, and it just became a thing that when we were at dinner, Reed would want you to draw the dog in the back of the truck. 08:14.116 --> 08:16.177 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we were all out at a family dinner. 08:16.217 --> 08:17.177 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a hubbachi. 08:17.217 --> 08:21.798 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we were celebrating somebody's birthday, but it just so happened he got set next to me. 08:22.799 --> 08:27.440 [SPEAKER_00]: And he wanted Lauren to draw that picture and she was like, have your dad draw it. 08:28.560 --> 08:29.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, wait, what? 08:30.381 --> 08:32.341 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not in my wheelhouse, but I'm not in my straight. 08:32.361 --> 08:34.442 [SPEAKER_00]: He needs to know his daddy is strong and capable. 08:34.802 --> 08:36.362 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have set me up for failure. 08:37.243 --> 08:39.363 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was believing in you. 08:39.383 --> 08:43.624 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, and I, and you should know, and you shouldn't of. 08:43.944 --> 08:49.886 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I, I start trying to draw this truck and this little dog and he's kind of trying to peek and I'm like shielding it. 08:50.646 --> 08:52.086 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go to show it to him. 08:52.727 --> 08:53.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And he just, 08:54.148 --> 08:57.866 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a little lip starts quivering and he just... 08:58.908 --> 09:25.608 [SPEAKER_00]: or read cries like tears streaming out his face at how terrible my picture is really hurt and so that her little oil painting joke i think said jab at my lack of what i just was like let's throw a oh like you like wait oil bad it's like you're like George double yes it's out so channel might be able to know yeah um yeah i can't draw i can't i want to i want to but it doesn't feel like 09:26.669 --> 09:30.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a good use of my time in the season on my life to learn how to draw? 09:30.975 --> 09:31.796 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, draw. 09:32.056 --> 09:35.061 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait till you're like retired or, Or whatever. 09:35.081 --> 09:36.102 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what that is. 09:36.282 --> 09:36.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that is. 09:36.823 --> 09:38.986 [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe you take up oil painting portraits. 09:39.246 --> 09:40.228 [SPEAKER_00]: We could do that together. 09:40.728 --> 09:41.189 [SPEAKER_01]: I could do it. 09:41.389 --> 09:42.871 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, no seriously though. 09:43.892 --> 09:52.176 [SPEAKER_02]: uh, sermon writing and book writing, uh, shed a little light into your creative process and writing sermons. 09:52.196 --> 09:53.337 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 09:53.357 --> 09:55.057 [SPEAKER_02]: And I would love to hear too. 09:55.077 --> 09:57.298 [SPEAKER_02]: Has that changed over the years? 09:57.318 --> 09:57.618 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:57.959 --> 09:58.399 [SPEAKER_02]: How is it 10:01.648 --> 10:06.635 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, a good friend of mine always says, and you should never

teach preaching. 10:06.655 --> 10:06.936 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 10:08.057 --> 10:16.510 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and it's because I think the way I've gone about it over the years, it is pretty different than um. 10:17.688 --> 10:24.331 [SPEAKER_00]: It is slightly different than I think some of the better books and teaching on sermon writing. 10:25.391 --> 10:35.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I need a good amount of time to just, I would use the language steep with the Lord in the text. 10:36.395 --> 10:48.919 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, before I'm going to go to a commentary, before I'm going to, you know, read anything about, I just want to read the text over and over and over again, and then I want to put myself in it. 10:49.559 --> 10:54.280 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to look around in my sanctified imagination. 10:54.300 --> 10:56.161 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to feel the weather. 10:56.181 --> 10:59.902 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to smell anything that might be in the air. 11:01.442 --> 11:07.805 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to pay attention to this person's face in the story. 11:07.865 --> 11:20.270 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to imagine what it would have been like to hear those words or to have those words read over me for the first time in that context and steep in that. 11:20.290 --> 11:27.673 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm just taking notes as I'm thinking about that. 11:28.553 --> 11:36.183 [SPEAKER_00]: and then I'll start doing language work and some commentary work. 11:36.263 --> 11:43.493 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever do a ton of commentary work, I prefer language work and then from there, 11:46.336 --> 12:06.733 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll start trying to put things together, the flow and feel of the text and then I'm looking to pull you in to that moment and scripture in a way that provokes a response towards the goodness and beauty of God in Jesus. 12:07.935 --> 12:15.326 [SPEAKER_00]: and from there, I want to move to contextual application to the people that I'm shepherding. 12:15.927 --> 12:18.951 [SPEAKER_00]: The majority of my preaching takes place at the village church. 12:19.011 --> 12:22.376 [SPEAKER_00]: I do quite a bit of preaching outside the village church, but 12:23.136 --> 12:29.400 [SPEAKER_00]: 90% of it is to this group of people, and I live in the same community and have for over two decades. 12:29.700 --> 12:31.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Our kids go to the same schools. 12:31.742 --> 12:33.083 [SPEAKER_00]: We all go to the same target. 12:33.403 --> 12:40.147 [SPEAKER_00]: We all, and so there's some contextual realities here that I want to speak to when we get to application. 12:41.047 --> 12:43.149 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to try to undermine 12:43.789 --> 12:47.891 [SPEAKER_00]: the predominant idols of the suburbs that we live in. 12:47.951 --> 12:48.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:48.732 --> 12:51.473 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to call people to gospel intensity. 12:52.013 --> 12:54.154 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that's why the village isn't for everybody. 12:54.695 --> 12:56.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we burn hot. 12:56.316 --> 13:00.518 [SPEAKER_00]: There's an intensity at our church that you can feel. 13:01.438 --> 13:24.057 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... and that's been cultivated over two decades so so that's the process uh... and then sometimes that comes together really quickly sometimes uh... i i don't do well block writing sermons yeah like it i i've got a good friend i mean he goes out and he spends like two weeks by himself and he comes back with like a year worth a man used to have man used to get yes 13:24.818 --> 13:26.761 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just can't, I can't get my head around. 13:26.781 --> 13:27.402 [SPEAKER_02]: Basically a book. 13:27.522 --> 13:28.743 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it basically is. 13:29.424 --> 13:37.134 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he'll, I don't know, I think he does some team work first and then goes off by himself and knocks it out. 13:37.395 --> 13:38.476 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not built like that. 13:39.785 --> 13:54.193 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to have my heart provoked in the process of writing that sermon and so that when I'm preaching it's what the good doctor called logic on fire. 13:54.233 --> 13:55.154 [SPEAKER_00]: That's Martin Luther Jones. 13:55.374 --> 13:55.854 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:55.874 --> 13:57.555 [SPEAKER_00]: He called preaching logic on fire. 13:58.116 --> 13:59.997 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to know the text. 14:00.857 --> 14:09.004 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want the Lord to catch it on fire, like in my guts, so that I think, well, Wesley said, I'm no velvet mouth to preacher. 14:09.745 --> 14:10.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel that way. 14:10.946 --> 14:14.729 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I'm not lecturing up there. 14:14.969 --> 14:19.193 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even call what I'm doing up there teaching per se, although teaching is a part of it. 14:22.097 --> 14:32.199 [SPEAKER_00]: wanting the fire of God to burst forth in your heart and lead to legitimate repentance and obedience. 14:33.620 --> 14:36.700 [SPEAKER_02]: And has that, has that process always been the same? 14:36.740 --> 14:37.641 [SPEAKER_02]: How has it changed? 14:37.701 --> 14:42.462 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and I've written about this in other places, preaching books. 14:45.312 --> 14:59.851 [SPEAKER_00]: created some problems for me and some of my heroes created some problems for me and so like in the overcomers I wrote about this time where I read a book from one of my heroes and he was just dogmatic. 15:00.472 --> 15:14.561 [SPEAKER_00]: about manuscript, about the, you know, there, there shouldn't be humor in it, you know, the more their humor in it, the more you're making it about you, the, you know, it, it were just these things and I had so much respect for him. 15:14.581 --> 15:16.161 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I must be doing this wrong. 15:17.282 --> 15:23.823 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I had always used humor as a way to make you put your hands down, so I could hit you harder with the truth of the text. 15:24.163 --> 15:34.485

[SPEAKER_00]: So literally how I thought about it, and I can feel the room and the room might need, okay, I can feel the intensity in here in a way that I'm afraid I might lose some people. 15:34.805 --> 15:41.927 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me relieve that for a second so that I can hit even harder, and that in my head was how 15:43.547 --> 15:54.718 [SPEAKER_00]: humor intuitively as a young man, but so man I had a couple of year period where I tried to run somebody else's playbook and it was terrible. 15:55.799 --> 16:01.384 [SPEAKER_00]: Terrible for me, I think terrible for the years and I just felt like I was wearing, I felt like I was wearing Saul's armor. 16:01.578 --> 16:02.940 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 16:03.100 --> 16:13.032 [SPEAKER_02]: What would you tell someone maybe a young person who feels like they have a teaching preaching, speaking gift? 16:13.352 --> 16:16.977 [SPEAKER_02]: What would you encourage them if they're in that the middle of that process? 16:17.077 --> 16:20.980 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it takes a while to find your voice, and that's okay. 16:21.680 --> 16:26.163 [SPEAKER_00]: Like usually with young preachers, let me listen to two of their sermons, and I can tell you who they listen to. 16:26.463 --> 16:26.764 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 16:26.984 --> 16:35.069 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm listening to two sermons, they're like, oh, you love you some Joby Martin and Josh Howard and oh, bro, you are Jonathan Piccuita, Philippe Anthony Mitchell. 16:35.109 --> 16:35.970 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:36.350 --> 16:43.695 [SPEAKER_00]: You listen to a lot of Tim Keller, like which is funny because you're in South Alabama and you're preaching like you're even Manhattan. 16:44.596 --> 16:44.836 [SPEAKER_00]: And, 16:46.157 --> 16:53.142 [SPEAKER_00]: So it takes a while for a guy to find his own voice and so you need to be patient and you need to honor how God built you. 16:54.183 --> 16:55.524 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm not an intellect. 16:56.164 --> 16:57.405 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can read the intellect. 16:57.465 --> 17:00.027 [SPEAKER_00]: I can understand what those guys write. 17:00.667 --> 17:02.568 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't preach like one. 17:02.669 --> 17:03.649 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think like one. 17:03.669 --> 17:06.611 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so grateful for those double PhD nerds. 17:06.791 --> 17:08.553 [SPEAKER_00]: I need them to do that work. 17:09.233 --> 17:22.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't have that gift set to dig that deep, but they can, and so man, I'll devour what they wrote, and then let it kind of percolate in me. 17:22.558 --> 17:32.802 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I want to communicate it in such a way that the man or woman who lives in this part of the world with this level of education can understand and apply it. 17:33.843 --> 17:38.208 [SPEAKER_00]: And so to the young man be patient and work to find your own voice. 17:38.749 --> 17:40.250 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be a manuscript person. 17:40.291 --> 17:41.212 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's beautiful. 17:41.572 --> 17:43.094 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be some hybrid. 17:43.114 --> 17:43.975 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm a hybrid. 17:43.995 --> 17:47.680 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got manuscript and bullet points in mind. 17:49.001 --> 17:51.384 [SPEAKER_00]: But find how God's built you. 17:52.386 --> 17:58.556 [SPEAKER_00]: in how you put a sermon together, and I'd be really tentative with your AI usage right now. 17:58.777 --> 17:59.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:59.458 --> 18:04.186 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that's such an easy thing to hop on, but I don't think. 18:05.325 --> 18:10.889 [SPEAKER_00]: you can feel in your guts the beauty of the text if A.I.' 18:10.869 --> 18:12.329 [SPEAKER_00]: 's giving you answers. 18:12.349 --> 18:13.850 [SPEAKER_00]: They can answer for you, yeah. 18:14.031 --> 18:19.434 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're not wrestling and wrangling in the prayer with the text, with the Holy Spirit. 18:20.154 --> 18:23.497 [SPEAKER_00]: That's gonna come out of you different than just good content. 18:23.837 --> 18:26.038 [SPEAKER_00]: And good content doesn't transform anyone. 18:26.478 --> 18:27.579 [SPEAKER_00]: The Spirit of God does. 18:28.300 --> 18:33.263 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as easy as that tool is, I've got legitimate fears. 18:33.843 --> 18:35.904 [SPEAKER_00]: for where that might be taking us in preaching. 18:37.345 --> 18:39.165 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you better be very careful with it. 18:40.526 --> 18:46.328 [SPEAKER_00]: But find your voice, your God's big plan for where you are, so you don't need to be someone else. 18:47.129 --> 18:51.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if God wanted Joby Martin in your church, Joby Martin would be in your church. 18:51.931 --> 18:54.612 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got you there and you're enough. 18:55.032 --> 18:57.553 [SPEAKER_00]: And the gifts he's given you are enough. 18:58.113 --> 19:08.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, growing your preaching gift, but man, I think communion with God in the text is the birthplace of that creativity for me. 19:08.699 --> 19:09.800 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to wrangle it with the Lord there. 19:12.363 --> 19:26.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I know you said young man and I because I know you're coming on it as a pastor or lead pastor, but I think it's also applicable to women who are given the teaching exhorting speaking and sometimes preaching gift, you know, in their spaces. 19:26.660 --> 19:28.222 [SPEAKER_02]: You teach that talk about yours. 19:28.482 --> 19:47.287 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, I just wanted to expand just for our listeners like I know he said young man he's talking about being at a local church and leading it, but also when encouraged those women who might be listening to have a heart for and have opportunity to speak and to just to take notes as well. 19:47.887 --> 19:51.368 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's interesting is when you are sharing, I thought more about 19:57.632 --> 20:07.760 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember if it's called like the performance gap where you

start to follow someone that you something about their style, their way resonates with you. 20:07.780 --> 20:10.823 [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, whatever that is, I like that. 20:10.923 --> 20:18.949 [SPEAKER_02]: And I am aiming towards that, but you realize where you are is not where they're like, you've got to grow in nature. 20:19.850 --> 20:30.855 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but also there's a danger of starting to sound like them versus sounding like you with a with a heavy influence of whoever that is. 20:30.955 --> 20:38.258 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was definitely part of my story was I I love Christy knockles and she knows this and I love her. 20:38.998 --> 20:44.581 [SPEAKER_02]: I loved her so much, I was just like, oh, there's something about her voice, where it's just rich and beautiful. 20:44.661 --> 20:50.024 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was listening at study, like even just the little runs she would do. 20:50.044 --> 20:59.189 [SPEAKER_02]: But then I had to make a choice, or I was like, as much as I love her voice, I don't have her anatomy. 20:59.329 --> 21:03.751 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have, like, God's gifted me differently. 21:03.811 --> 21:06.733 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have my own voice that I need to figure out. 21:07.373 --> 21:08.614 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, what does it sound like? 21:08.694 --> 21:08.874 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:09.494 --> 21:14.556 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's interesting because I think it's applicable to both. 21:14.576 --> 21:21.238 [SPEAKER_02]: Because the sermon writing, to the singer, to the songwriter of, have your heroes have your influence. 21:21.258 --> 21:21.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're important. 21:22.239 --> 21:27.801 [SPEAKER_02]: But be very careful in trying to imitate them because God made you. 21:27.821 --> 21:28.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:28.541 --> 21:30.182 [SPEAKER_02]: And he is so creative. 21:30.242 --> 21:30.442 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:31.102 --> 21:35.365 [SPEAKER_02]: And if he wanted a hundred-matte Chandler, then he would do that. 21:35.425 --> 21:36.446 [SPEAKER_02]: If he wanted a hundred. 21:36.826 --> 21:37.586 [SPEAKER_02]: And he didn't. 21:37.606 --> 21:39.908 [SPEAKER_02]: He's like so much more creative than we are. 21:39.928 --> 21:40.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 21:40.888 --> 21:50.734 [SPEAKER_02]: And I've shared in different spaces where, you know, we're a poor man's copy of someone else, like being original. 21:50.915 --> 21:52.436 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like that Walmart version. 21:52.456 --> 21:53.596 [SPEAKER_00]: Walmart version. 21:53.696 --> 21:54.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. 21:54.397 --> 21:55.157 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 21:55.678 --> 21:57.439 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't know the story, there was, 21:58.299 --> 22:00.803 [SPEAKER_02]: Just, you know, mean teenage girl thing. 22:00.843 --> 22:01.244 [SPEAKER_02]: We won. 22:01.264 --> 22:01.945 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 22:02.385 --> 22:06.591 [SPEAKER_02]: Someone had said that Audrey was the Walmart version of another

girl. 22:06.732 --> 22:08.154 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, no. 22:08.174 --> 22:08.855 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get it. 22:09.520 --> 22:12.382 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, which it just needs an off-brain. 22:13.003 --> 22:16.486 [SPEAKER_02]: But an Audrey is nothing but rich at all. 22:16.626 --> 22:17.947 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the ones. 22:17.967 --> 22:18.968 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll learn soon enough. 22:19.088 --> 22:19.648 [SPEAKER_02]: They will. 22:20.129 --> 22:24.713 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, but yeah, I don't want to be the off-brain version of another person. 22:24.773 --> 22:27.195 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be who God has made me. 22:27.255 --> 22:32.739 [SPEAKER_02]: But there is a time in your creative process you're figuring out your voice where 22:33.520 --> 22:40.926 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a tight that you look at and you aim for, but then there's a place where you kind of grow past that. 22:41.406 --> 22:42.507 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, into yourself. 22:42.928 --> 22:43.788 [SPEAKER_02]: Into yourself. 22:43.808 --> 22:44.629 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's a process. 22:44.749 --> 22:45.209 [SPEAKER_02]: It is. 22:45.450 --> 22:50.013 [SPEAKER_02]: Very rarely do you find someone who just kind of knows who they are. 22:50.113 --> 22:52.135 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they exist for sure. 22:52.155 --> 22:53.216 [SPEAKER_02]: They're very rare. 22:53.716 --> 23:03.652 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wonder what you would say about the importance of reps in that, like it. 23:04.928 --> 23:13.694 [SPEAKER_00]: It took me years of preaching to find what I would now call my voice years of preaching. 23:14.354 --> 23:20.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And so even talking to young guys, I'm like, look, you're probably not going to find your voice in your first 30 seconds. 23:20.418 --> 23:21.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:21.519 --> 23:25.742 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to emulate what you've heard, what you've read, what you've watched. 23:26.122 --> 23:37.348 [SPEAKER_00]: what you, and so be careful about what you're reading, watching and emulating, but you're right, there's usually some sort of resonance with who you're drawn to. 23:37.728 --> 23:48.294 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably somewhat tied to how God's wired you or gifted you, or if you're, if you're not careful how he hasn't gifted you, but you wish he had. 23:48.534 --> 23:50.596 [SPEAKER_00]: And that I think can be a huge problem. 23:51.316 --> 23:51.536 [SPEAKER_00]: I know 23:55.578 --> 24:15.312 [SPEAKER_00]: They wish they were a little bit more like Philopanthani Mitchell or they wish they were a little bit more like Josh Howardton or they wish they were a little bit more fill in the blank, but they're they're not they're not they don't have that personality they don't have that intensity and then it's it's even worse. 24:16.173 --> 24:43.025 [SPEAKER_00]: when you're now emulating someone who's maybe their spiritual gifts and the personality got gave them are so far removed from you that now you better be careful to

pull what's good from that but not adopt their methodology tone style and the temptation to become a lesser copy 24:46.627 --> 25:05.675 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be made worse when you have maybe gift envy and so I don't know if that resonates with you or being a preacher teacher, the imposter or even just anyone up in front of people or making something that you're sharing with people for others. 25:14.966 --> 25:15.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Imposter syndrome? 25:16.006 --> 25:23.529 [SPEAKER_02]: I know, but I'm trying to, how do you, I'm trying to change that into a verb, like, pretending to be someone else on top of that. 25:24.530 --> 25:38.735 [SPEAKER_02]: How much more are you doubling down on that feeling of, okay, I already don't feel like I can do this and now I'm trying to do it in a way that is is pretending to be someone else. 25:38.895 --> 25:42.657 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's what I was thinking was like, it's already a struggle. 25:43.637 --> 25:44.658 [SPEAKER_02]: in that scenario. 25:44.698 --> 25:48.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Like here's a, here's a funny story when I was like, I need to stop listening to him. 25:49.944 --> 25:53.868 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is probably 12, 15 years ago. 25:55.770 --> 25:58.412 [SPEAKER_00]: We had partnered with Epiphany in Philadelphia. 25:58.432 --> 26:06.601 [SPEAKER_00]: We were helping them do some outreach stuff and we're helping them kind of build and Eric Mason was a good friend and 26:07.381 --> 26:14.286 [SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to him a lot, and he stylistically wildly different than me. 26:14.466 --> 26:22.271 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, true kind of black church preaching, and which is always that story telling thing they do. 26:23.472 --> 26:28.275 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I try to listen to that stuff, there's something about black preaching to me. 26:28.915 --> 26:42.565 [SPEAKER_00]: that, and just give me grace here, sounds a bit more like Jesus taught, where he's like parable of the sort, like think of Jesus's lessons, and he's weaving into what he sees in front of him. 26:42.605 --> 26:44.346 [SPEAKER_00]: It's super narrative heavy. 26:44.987 --> 26:53.033 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, and Eric would do this thing where he would make a point, and if the crowd didn't respond to him, he'd say, I wish I had some help. 26:54.033 --> 26:56.994 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was preaching, I was preaching. 26:57.234 --> 27:00.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not remember the village and you did not see that. 27:00.956 --> 27:04.417 [SPEAKER_00]: I just thought I was killing it on this one point. 27:04.697 --> 27:11.819 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just looking out, just a bunch of white people taking notes and I was like, I wish I had some help and like, live time in my head. 27:11.839 --> 27:13.920 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, gonna stop listening to Eric for a while. 27:14.320 --> 27:15.922 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stop listening to Eric for a while. 27:16.142 --> 27:17.123 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's like, what do you say? 27:17.223 --> 27:18.545 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're told Eric this. 27:18.765 --> 27:19.426 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to. 27:19.446 --> 27:23.951 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't sweat quite like that. 27:23.971 --> 27:25.453 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't sweat quite like that. 27:25.473 --> 27:26.915 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't sweat quite like that. 27:28.977 --> 27:30.299 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I can't believe that. 27:30.319 --> 27:32.281 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be an example of. 27:32.541 --> 27:32.882 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish I'd. 27:33.983 --> 27:37.465 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're, I mean, we're probably doing six services back friends. 27:37.626 --> 27:39.387 [SPEAKER_00]: We're coming to all of them and we're seeing on. 27:39.427 --> 27:42.409 [SPEAKER_00]: And even when you were singing, you weren't sitting through my sermon. 27:42.469 --> 27:44.250 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was your great preacher. 27:44.290 --> 27:44.971 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't need that. 27:45.011 --> 27:45.351 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 27:45.371 --> 27:48.133 [SPEAKER_02]: To all the pastors who I was in the final team, miss them. 27:48.713 --> 27:49.394 [SPEAKER_00]: That is true. 27:49.434 --> 27:49.974 [SPEAKER_00]: It is fun. 27:50.194 --> 27:50.615 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun. 27:51.395 --> 27:53.837 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that would be an example of 27:55.258 --> 28:04.043 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not necessarily trying to emulate his style, but I'd listen to him so much that there were his idiosyncrasies started to come out in the late night. 28:04.543 --> 28:10.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like, I'm not in a culture where I'm yelling out, I wish I had some help. 28:10.726 --> 28:11.106 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 28:11.266 --> 28:12.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Sean Drickham. 28:12.387 --> 28:13.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Sean Drickham. 28:13.467 --> 28:16.649 [SPEAKER_00]: She would, she'd stand up at Holler and Sean Drickham. 28:16.689 --> 28:17.449 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:17.489 --> 28:18.430 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:18.670 --> 28:20.011 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be an example of even 28:20.631 --> 28:20.871 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:20.971 --> 28:24.174 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't want to start imitating somebody else's idiocincrecies. 28:24.494 --> 28:24.794 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 28:24.854 --> 28:26.075 [SPEAKER_02]: You have your own. 28:26.776 --> 28:33.501 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be contextual and cultural and so yeah, that's another thought I had just on this process. 28:33.521 --> 28:34.602 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's good. 28:35.142 --> 28:38.705 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you pull this into your eye for design? 28:38.725 --> 28:40.807 [SPEAKER_02]: But I did for design. 28:40.827 --> 28:43.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you, you make spaces 28:50.800 --> 29:00.524 [SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to my home, I feel like it's easier for me to get inspiration from others, but still be okay with how it's translate to my home. 29:01.205 --> 29:02.445 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know what that is. 29:02.645 --> 29:04.486 [SPEAKER_02]: Where I

love it. 29:04.526 --> 29:05.947 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I get inspired. 29:06.127 --> 29:10.909 [SPEAKER_02]: I will get on Instagram and like I'll like one picture of 29:11.569 --> 29:19.997 [SPEAKER_02]: I love the eclectic look right now where it's not super polished, it's got lots of character and then it'll just feed me all those accounts. 29:20.017 --> 29:28.404 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like follow follow follow but what's interesting but if that I do not feel that when it comes to music. 29:28.504 --> 29:28.865 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 29:29.365 --> 29:35.410 [SPEAKER_02]: And so when it comes to music, man, I am just, I have to guard my heart more. 29:35.910 --> 29:37.852 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to, I will compare. 29:38.332 --> 29:39.533 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of take what? 29:39.553 --> 29:42.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Closer to think that must be what it is. 29:42.375 --> 29:44.257 [SPEAKER_00]: Like your maybe spiritual gifts. 29:44.297 --> 29:47.719 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it might be where it's just like forever. 29:49.551 --> 29:53.133 [SPEAKER_02]: I could probably watch it now, but American Idol, I would not watch. 29:53.793 --> 29:58.997 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I was like, something in my heart would be like, I could have done that. 29:59.057 --> 30:00.838 [SPEAKER_02]: I could have done it. 30:01.138 --> 30:01.819 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't do that. 30:01.839 --> 30:02.820 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't seem like that. 30:02.980 --> 30:04.000 [SPEAKER_02]: I would compare myself. 30:04.020 --> 30:06.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, all you need to do is watch week one. 30:06.362 --> 30:07.903 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you feel great about yourself. 30:08.003 --> 30:08.303 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 30:08.724 --> 30:10.645 [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, I just think it's very interesting. 30:10.665 --> 30:12.927 [SPEAKER_02]: I have all these other creative pursuits. 30:13.805 --> 30:19.729 [SPEAKER_02]: that I can see other people do it, celebrate them, have my place and be fine with where I am. 30:20.129 --> 30:39.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, when it comes to design in our home and just, I just like how it feels for our story, or even writing, but when it comes to music and using my voice that I am so hard on myself, it's been something I've really had to struggle 30:40.741 --> 30:45.583 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think part of that is, yes, I think it's part of my spiritual gift. 30:45.643 --> 30:50.446 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's also a place where the enemy loves to play. 30:50.606 --> 30:50.806 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 30:51.006 --> 30:52.227 [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to discourage. 30:52.267 --> 30:58.490 [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to shut it down because if he can just get me discouraged enough, then I just won't use it anymore. 30:58.710 --> 31:00.411 [SPEAKER_00]: So where's the line for? 31:04.202 --> 31:25.080 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's the line for or where do you get then inspiration musically because what I've watched you do is like in songwriting in particular is it lays latent for a while and then all of a sudden you're playing with something. 31:25.906 --> 31:31.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a melody or it's a little, like, if I think of praise him, it's just this little lullaby. 31:31.492 --> 31:44.828 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, like, that's where I'm, I don't know where that inspiration kind of burst forth in you that really has been in our nearly 30 years together, hot and cold. 31:45.348 --> 31:46.088 [SPEAKER_02]: Very happy. 31:46.189 --> 31:48.810 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, let me get you a piano. 31:48.850 --> 31:49.550 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me get you a journal. 31:49.590 --> 31:51.271 [SPEAKER_00]: You should, you should write more. 31:51.571 --> 31:51.911 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:51.951 --> 31:53.092 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's just not there. 31:53.512 --> 31:53.792 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:54.173 --> 32:03.757 [SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden if I think back on the songs that you've written that have been incorporated and sung and recorded, it's like all of a sudden like, and I don't know a triggered it. 32:03.777 --> 32:04.358 [SPEAKER_00]: We could just like, 32:04.998 --> 32:31.244 [SPEAKER_00]: come home from a movie or come home from dinner and all of a sudden you're like I I want to go play with this and so where if it's been hard to get inspiration was the word you used from other singers because they because it it jossles maybe parts of you in comparison what what has inspired then in those moments for you to go 32:35.045 --> 32:41.707 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, usually it is like a, it is a overwhelming feeling and that's what it is. 32:41.807 --> 32:46.009 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I, I, I feel compelled to do it. 32:46.029 --> 32:47.249 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 32:47.550 --> 32:53.052 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe compelled to write a song for specific purpose or, um, 32:56.168 --> 33:10.415 [SPEAKER_02]: be around some, so when I wrote praise him, it was part of it was it was a assignment, a songwriting class that I was in, but I just haven't felt that compulsion to write. 33:10.495 --> 33:18.158 [SPEAKER_02]: It really like my creative, my creative process is a little different because I feel like it is something I do with the Lord and He 33:22.580 --> 33:30.222 [SPEAKER_02]: a pregnancy in birth, where I feel pregnant with an idea, and it's going to take shape. 33:30.902 --> 33:34.743 [SPEAKER_02]: It's how it's birth, like he's in charge of it. 33:34.903 --> 33:41.745 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a song or it's a book or it's like when I wrote goodbye to goodbye. 33:41.885 --> 33:45.226 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'd written steadfast love, which was a trade book. 33:45.886 --> 33:48.367 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd written the Bible study steadfast love. 33:49.427 --> 34:05.055 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I remember I had no point like I met with this publisher and I was like the only thing that would tempt me is a children's book and that's what they they said as like would you and there's something that resonated with me I was like yeah I 34:05.775 --> 34:21.449

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I do want to write a children's book or when I was reading through the Bible and I got into numbers and I was fascinated by numbers and then someone came to me and was like, hey do you have any ideas on a Bible study? 34:21.469 --> 34:23.451 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like actually I've been thinking about numbers. 34:23.671 --> 34:30.577 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very, I think where you are and this is, this is us in our personality and our 34:31.898 --> 34:37.320 [SPEAKER_02]: you are like gonna cause a stir, like you are going to be, what's the word, the instigator? 34:37.420 --> 34:37.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:38.441 --> 34:39.361 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm responsive. 34:39.761 --> 34:41.842 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm more of a responsive person. 34:41.882 --> 34:42.022 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:42.583 --> 34:49.165 [SPEAKER_02]: So I will respond to, I will feel like I've got something, but then it takes like someone say, what if you this? 34:49.205 --> 34:49.325 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:49.345 --> 34:52.707 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yes, and that it just clicks. 34:52.767 --> 34:52.987 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:54.088 --> 34:56.449 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's how it's been for me. 34:56.509 --> 34:58.491 [SPEAKER_02]: That's all my creative processes. 34:59.151 --> 35:09.018 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything that I've made has been there's some kind of feeling like a, I feel pregnant is the best way that I can describe it. 35:09.399 --> 35:13.322 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like an opportunity, and I'm like, that's what that's for. 35:14.362 --> 35:22.710 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's been story, that's been every Bible study I've written, book I've written, children's book, songs I've written. 35:22.730 --> 35:28.675 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that has been how the Lord works with me. 35:30.428 --> 35:33.129 [SPEAKER_00]: And do you think that's why I have two thoughts? 35:33.529 --> 35:34.989 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's do this one first. 35:36.430 --> 35:53.755 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious, like when you get asked to teach and I know you hate it and you hate the process of it and yet the fruit of the deliverable of it has always been, I would say significant. 35:54.315 --> 35:54.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:54.995 --> 35:56.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Talk a little bit about 35:57.705 --> 36:09.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Like why that seems to like, yeah, jam you up is how I experience you when you have to like fretting. 36:10.090 --> 36:11.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 36:11.971 --> 36:25.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Like feeling out of your depth despite what's been a long history of the Lord inviting you into that space, you reluctantly stepping in and the Lord coming through and power. 36:25.956 --> 36:26.317 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 36:26.337 --> 36:27.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you been able to sift through that? 36:27.939 --> 36:34.566 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, what is it about that in particular, where, like, so talented, so creative? 36:34.666 --> 36:35.748 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're there. 36:36.569 --> 36:41.735 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can feel paralyzed or stuck in that space. 36:41.775 --> 36:42.115 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you? 36:42.255 --> 36:45.399 [SPEAKER_02]: I think some of it is so pride. 36:45.419 --> 36:46.020 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 36:47.050 --> 36:56.094 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm a firstborn who don't want to do anything unless I'm good the first time that yes, it is true. 36:56.174 --> 37:07.479 [SPEAKER_02]: If it doesn't come somewhat easy to me or at least in like, you know, I've got yes, I can grow, but like where I'm starting is a little higher. 37:07.780 --> 37:08.600 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense? 37:08.620 --> 37:13.562 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm a little further along and where I start and I can see who I can close that gap. 37:13.922 --> 37:14.223 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:15.343 --> 37:22.907 [SPEAKER_02]: and when it comes to speaking, teaching, and I don't know if it's honestly being married to you. 37:23.087 --> 37:26.089 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, I'm not blowing smoke. 37:26.209 --> 37:29.911 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the way God's gifted you is profound in that. 37:30.291 --> 37:38.736 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I can, it's not fair to me, but also I think it's my pride, so I'll own that part of it. 37:39.416 --> 37:43.358 [SPEAKER_02]: Where I want to be better than average to begin. 37:46.074 --> 37:47.958 [SPEAKER_02]: I know, no good, you. 37:48.910 --> 37:49.851 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm good. 37:50.011 --> 37:53.452 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be better than you, but like, yeah, no. 37:54.153 --> 37:55.814 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and then you do like to win. 37:55.994 --> 37:57.134 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I was asking you to. 37:57.274 --> 37:57.975 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate to lose. 37:58.295 --> 37:59.295 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true, it's different. 37:59.335 --> 38:00.116 [SPEAKER_00]: You do hate to lose. 38:00.176 --> 38:00.936 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah. 38:00.996 --> 38:04.318 [SPEAKER_00]: I play a lot of competitive games in the Chandler House. 38:04.378 --> 38:06.559 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got a couple of ladies that hate to lose. 38:06.639 --> 38:09.100 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we all lose if they lose. 38:09.460 --> 38:10.741 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's another podcast. 38:10.761 --> 38:11.702 [SPEAKER_02]: It's another podcast. 38:12.182 --> 38:15.804 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that's part of it is probably a pride. 38:16.708 --> 38:22.824 [SPEAKER_02]: Where I feel very clunky, I feel very awkward in it. 38:25.883 --> 38:32.988 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't, and then I haven't stuck with it long enough to find my voice. 38:33.008 --> 38:33.229 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 38:34.049 --> 38:37.532 [SPEAKER_02]: I've done, I've spoken every way that you can. 38:37.752 --> 38:41.715 [SPEAKER_02]: I've done where I just have the Bible passage in front of me. 38:41.795 --> 38:41.935 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 38:42.195 --> 38:44.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I've soaked in it for so long. 38:44.617 --> 38:47.900 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's ministered to me personally for so

long. 38:48.120 --> 38:49.180 [SPEAKER_02]: I can just go off of that. 38:49.221 --> 38:49.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 38:50.275 --> 38:52.816 [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, that's my preferred way. 38:52.836 --> 38:53.896 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's you at your best. 38:54.356 --> 39:01.979 [SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't always match well when people are like, okay, tell it, what we want you to speak about is this. 39:02.119 --> 39:02.899 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 39:02.919 --> 39:09.161 [SPEAKER_02]: I, because I want the A, I want, did I, you know, fill out, do I get the 10 points for the intro? 39:09.181 --> 39:12.883 [SPEAKER_02]: Do I get the 20 points for the, you know, is it all up to 100? 39:12.943 --> 39:13.643 [SPEAKER_00]: I can grade you. 39:14.003 --> 39:14.583 [SPEAKER_02]: And no. 39:15.204 --> 39:16.544 [SPEAKER_02]: And so. 39:16.684 --> 39:22.907 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a manuscript where I'm read from it because I am writing easier for me than speaking. 39:23.708 --> 39:28.510 [SPEAKER_02]: I've done the hybrid and none of it fills great. 39:31.565 --> 39:33.848 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the second thought I had. 39:33.948 --> 39:39.434 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always been curious about this because of God's call in my life. 39:40.255 --> 39:42.417 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm having to do this every week. 39:43.138 --> 39:50.586 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is never over for it's like the, as the adage goes, Sundays come in. 39:50.826 --> 39:51.366 [SPEAKER_02]: Good for you. 39:51.466 --> 39:52.988 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad you're the one called it. 39:53.268 --> 40:05.836 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying is, yeah, what I'm saying is I wonder where your creative gifts would be if the, you know, and maybe you'd be miserable in this. 40:05.916 --> 40:07.097 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be miserable. 40:07.237 --> 40:07.978 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's 40:09.368 --> 40:18.011 [SPEAKER_02]: The Lord is just not let me, I just have too many interests and pursuits if I had to do the one thing. 40:18.031 --> 40:18.451 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:18.691 --> 40:20.512 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I would dribble up and die. 40:20.612 --> 40:20.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:21.172 --> 40:25.353 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I need to do a lot of different things. 40:25.393 --> 40:25.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:25.973 --> 40:27.814 [SPEAKER_00]: That's been true of you since I met you. 40:28.094 --> 40:28.314 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 40:28.494 --> 40:30.975 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't quite understand the burden of it until read. 40:31.775 --> 40:56.150 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where I used to, you know, a joke used to be like I'm I've got in all honesty I'm like really good at three or four things and And then her family good and then man, it's it gets pretty average below average once we're outside of those three or four things Except oil painting there it is again drawing a truck in a dog, but Lauren 40:57.310 --> 41:10.916 [SPEAKER_00]: Like in, in my son, it just on the surface it just looks like you guys

can choose to be good at things and almost immediately be better than most. 41:11.736 --> 41:17.119 [SPEAKER_00]: And that used to be, you know, be like, oh, you poor thing, but then watching read, try to figure out. 41:18.119 --> 41:35.264 [SPEAKER_00]: direction in life, career, where he fits, what he should be doing with his time and really watching him get melancholy overwhelmed with that gave me a deeper appreciation for especially early 41:39.815 --> 41:54.148 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's what was so hard was like to see you very gifted in this one thing and doing it and finding a lot of satisfaction and then so then I'm trying to do this one thing, which was lead worship and it just was it. 41:55.169 --> 41:55.750 [SPEAKER_02]: enough. 41:56.110 --> 42:03.096 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, the Lord was like, man, if I could go back and talk to Lauren back then, I'd be like, this is great. 42:03.516 --> 42:10.062 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, growing this, you are going to enjoy this, but don't put all your bags in this basket, all your bags in this exit, exit. 42:10.522 --> 42:11.784 [SPEAKER_02]: You could say that. 42:12.504 --> 42:16.167 [SPEAKER_02]: In this basket, like, the Lord has so much more for you. 42:17.869 --> 42:23.114 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you do all those things, it doesn't mean you don't get to do this one thing. 42:23.234 --> 42:26.416 [SPEAKER_02]: But don't just make it all about this. 42:26.457 --> 42:27.397 [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be miserable. 42:27.417 --> 42:27.878 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. 42:28.538 --> 42:31.521 [SPEAKER_00]: So, there are people watching this. 42:31.561 --> 42:36.225 [SPEAKER_00]: We've just said, like, everybody's created in their way. 42:37.286 --> 42:41.310 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you hoping they pull from this conversation between you and me? 42:42.070 --> 43:04.577 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, encouragement, that there is something, I hope, if you're someone like me who, you know, you see someone that you know that's profoundly gifted in this one area and you see them, they have so much joy while they're doing it and you're like, man, I wish there was something like that for me to be curious, like, okay, maybe there is something but maybe it's a few things. 43:05.677 --> 43:17.341 [SPEAKER_02]: and be curious with the Lord, ask Him what it is, try some things, and don't give up, and be okay if it just looks a little bit different. 43:17.701 --> 43:27.645 [SPEAKER_00]: How would you, how would you tie this, how close do you think the creative gift and our spiritual gifts are? 43:27.765 --> 43:29.886 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking about acquired skills, 43:34.110 --> 43:43.557 [SPEAKER_00]: the gift that's been promised to every believer for the common good, for the manifestation of unity, unto the fullness of Christ. 43:43.577 --> 43:48.940 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking when the Holy Spirit saves you, he didn't come into your soul empty handed. 43:49.340 --> 43:51.422 [SPEAKER_00]: He brought spiritual gifts. 43:51.922 --> 43:55.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see a correlation between our creativity and our spiritual gifts? 44:04.123 --> 44:11.727 [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you pursue creatively more than likely your spiritual gifts are going to be attached to that. 44:11.767 --> 44:22.293 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I think about my spiritual gifts what I can tell, faith, mercy, maybe discernment, yeah, certainly discernment. 44:24.721 --> 44:27.944 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it colors my creativity. 44:28.184 --> 44:28.704 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 44:28.764 --> 44:29.765 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you, what do you say? 44:29.785 --> 44:34.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was asking because I've just been my heads been in that space so much lately. 44:34.549 --> 44:35.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. 44:36.071 --> 44:50.963 [SPEAKER_00]: Been devouring a lot of John Thompson stuff and just got my head around and you said something like that reminded me of like one of the ways like you, you discern what your gift is. 44:51.063 --> 44:51.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 44:52.925 --> 44:56.408 [SPEAKER_00]: What comes easy to me and brings me a great deal of joy? 44:56.428 --> 44:57.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 44:58.090 --> 45:05.737 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if I think about my gifts, they come easy to me and they bring me joy. 45:05.757 --> 45:07.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:07.339 --> 45:09.721 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't feel like work. 45:10.942 --> 45:11.922 [SPEAKER_00]: the majority of the time. 45:11.982 --> 45:15.963 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, a phrase we use all the time at the billages, everybody's got to do the laundry. 45:16.503 --> 45:19.304 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are certainly parts of this process. 45:19.824 --> 45:22.164 [SPEAKER_00]: The feel like doing the laundry just needs to get done. 45:22.204 --> 45:23.305 [SPEAKER_02]: The things it just need to get done. 45:23.325 --> 45:33.287 [SPEAKER_00]: But by and large, steeping with the Lord, wrangling with text, letting it catch my soul of fire and then getting it out of me. 45:33.307 --> 45:33.867 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 45:34.587 --> 45:44.662 [SPEAKER_00]: is like I feel the pleasure of God in that and I always have, I always feel so near to the Lord in the process and in the proclamation so that if I go, 45:45.879 --> 45:52.243 [SPEAKER_00]: a long period of time without doing it, I start to feel very pregnant. 45:53.063 --> 45:54.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've got to get this out of me. 45:54.844 --> 45:56.445 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I'm about to burst. 45:57.425 --> 46:04.029 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, maybe we're not gonna be able to answer that question, but I'd love to keep talking about how those might hold hands. 46:04.109 --> 46:08.231 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can see that and, you know, your gift is clearly exhortation. 46:09.392 --> 46:22.835 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think for me, it's, I think probably the strong, the gift that I've gotten to exercise the most is faith and I think about faith is usually accompanying something. 46:22.855 --> 46:29.416 [SPEAKER_02]: So I can see it being a response gift, where it's like you have faith for something like you see it. 46:37.223 --> 46:41.606 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the writing the book or that's, it's like I can see it. 46:41.826 --> 46:42.706 [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's happening. 46:42.726 --> 46:45.508 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know the timeline of it, but it's, it's going to happen. 46:45.588 --> 46:48.029 [SPEAKER_00]: So you are a different person. 46:48.149 --> 46:53.853 [SPEAKER_00]: I experience you as a different person, if you feel like you've got marching orders from the Lord. 46:54.393 --> 46:54.673 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 46:55.334 --> 47:03.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there is a drive and a precision in you that increases. 47:03.560 --> 47:08.203 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that you lack drive or precision, it's when that assignment comes. 47:08.784 --> 47:13.067 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it is that gift of faith that you're like this is going to go the way it's supposed to. 47:13.487 --> 47:14.988 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all grind for this. 47:15.188 --> 47:16.129 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get this done. 47:16.689 --> 47:21.753 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll sacrifice this for this because I really believe this is an assignment for the Lord. 47:23.454 --> 47:24.374 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this has been fun. 47:24.394 --> 47:25.275 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see. 47:25.315 --> 47:25.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 47:25.695 --> 47:27.235 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just bunch of creatives here. 47:27.255 --> 47:28.255 [SPEAKER_02]: We are all of that. 47:28.335 --> 47:28.775 [SPEAKER_02]: All of that. 47:28.835 --> 47:29.215 [SPEAKER_00]: All of that. 47:29.316 --> 47:30.376 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, make it share it. 47:30.896 --> 47:31.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, make it share it. 47:31.816 --> 47:32.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Make it share it. 47:32.396 --> 47:32.776 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 47:33.096 --> 47:34.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys for tuning in. 47:34.437 --> 47:39.098 [SPEAKER_00]: Hope this has been helpful for you as you as an image bearer. 47:40.418 --> 47:46.320 [SPEAKER_00]: Use the good gifts that God has given you for the beauty, glory, and renown of Jesus Christ. 47:46.720 --> 47:47.480 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next time.