บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Unlocking Hidden Opportunities: R&D Tax Credits for Manufacturers

oftentimes the day-to-day things that could potentially qualify. 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:34.240 So if you're developing a product, a process, a technique, or a formula, um, and there is really any uncertainty, there's a as part of that development, there's a high chance that it could qualify for the RD tax credit. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.319 Um, there's actually what we call the four-part test for RD credit qualifications. 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:44.000 So part of that also, I can go through that in detail if you want, but I if you like a little bit. 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:45.759 Oh, if you can sprinkle a little bit in. 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:46.960 Okay, yeah, sure. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.960 So in order to be eligible, I already talked about developing the product or process. 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:54.719 The second part requires your activity has to be based in a hard science. 00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:04.719 So for our manufacturing clients, that could be engineering, but it could also be on like the software side, it could be computer science, computer engineering, physics, really anything along those lines. 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:09.439 The third and fourth part of the test are really where the heart of the RD study is. 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:14.800 So that third part requires that there has to be some sort of technical uncertainty at the outset of your project. 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:20.000 So whether you can develop this brand new product, how to develop this brand new product. 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:29.039 And a great way to tell if you're meeting that level of uncertainty is if you're going through the fourth part of the test, which is that you're going through a process of experimentation to eliminate that uncertainty. 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:33.280 So that's oftentimes trial and error, their iterative process of development. 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:37.360 For our manufacturing clients, it can be prototype development, trial runs. 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:47.280 Um, I can go into various examples, but there's so much there that people don't realize that they're doing and that would oftentimes qualify, especially in the manufacturing area. 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:53.039 Um, of course, the work has to be done in the US, you know, have to maintain the IP rights and it can't be funded. 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:59.280 But um, high level, there's a lot of a lot of work that our manufacturing clients are doing on a day-to-day basis. 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.680 They they don't even realize qualifies for the credit. 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:08.639 Yeah, and to add to that, um, you mentioned product development, but also process improvements is a big thing for manufacturing companies. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:14.960 And I like how you said the day-to-day because a lot of our subject matter experts they say, Oh, but I just do this every day. 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:16.399 Like this isn't technical. 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:22.800 And we're like, Well, it sounds technical to me, and I don't normally run a million trial runs. 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:24.160 So exactly. 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:31.040 Yeah, that's oftentimes, and I think recently Julie and I both were actually at a client's office or their manufacturing facility. 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:38.160 They walked us through the floor, and it was through walking that manufacturing plant that we were like, RD, RD, RD. 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:48.319 And in this case, obviously, we're not going to share what the client was doing, but they were creating new processes, they were developing new product lines, they were creating or enhancing existing product lines. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:54.560 So it's amazing what they're doing on a day-to-day basis and how many people are touching that development effort. 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.519 And we could probably qualify a portion of those employees' expenses, the supply expenses. 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:04.160 So it can be the credit can be very valuable and lucrative. 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:16.560 And we always say this is that if you are engaging in development work, these credits were enacted to help companies like like our manufacturing companies recoup some of that investment. 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.319 So why not claim the credit? 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:19.519 Why not? 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:20.240 Okay. 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:26.800 So once companies realize the credit may apply, the next question is usually what actually counts. 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:34.879 So what types of manufacturing activities or projects most commonly qualify for the RD tax credit that business owners typically overlook? 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.600 I I may have gotten ahead of myself with the last question and gone through that, but let's see. 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.079 Obviously, we talked about product development and Julie talked about process improvement. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:53.279 So if you're developing anything better, faster, or cheaper, there's a very high chance that those process improvements could potentially qualify for the credit. 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.319 So an example would be you're trying to, I always use widgets. 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.079 I know it's kind of an old school example, but it's helpful. 00:05:58.560 --> 00:05:59.439 It's helpful sometimes. 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.319 So let's say you're trying to go from developing five widgets in an hour to ten widgets in an hour. 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.560 That would be an example of a process improvement. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:06.959 Okay. 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:24.079 Maybe you're trying to um change the material of this product that you've developed to make it um more durable, or you're trying to develop it where it still maintains all of its features, but you can develop it at scale or maybe in a um more cost-efficient manner. 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:27.120 Those are examples of things that would qualify for the credit. 00:06:27.279

--> 00:06:29.040 Um, I always like to say this, right? 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:33.519 A lot of clients, they don't, they they always say, Oh, I developed this years ago. 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.680 But most people aren't aren't doing the exact same thing day-to-day. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:49.279 They are constantly innovating, they're having to change their business model or their business product line or their product line in general, just a bit in order to stay up, I guess stay current or keep up with demand. 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:56.480 So the fact that you're constantly making those changes, a lot of times those changes could potentially qualify for the RD tax credit. 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.399 I guess one thing that is important to know is that doesn't necessarily have to be successful. 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:06.079 Like maybe you're trying to increase your your um how many widgets you can produce in an hour. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:12.079 But if if you try all these things and it doesn't work, you can still claim a credit on that so you can recoup some of the costs that were lost. 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:13.439 Oh, that was a good tip. 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:14.160 Thank you. 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:15.360 That's a really good point. 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:23.759 Because sometimes people don't want to talk about what didn't work, but those are the best examples for the RD credit, is the things that you tried that ultimately did not work. 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.560 Because that really shows that you've gone through the process of RD for credit qualification. 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.120 It really shows the technical uncertainty. 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.079 Like it you weren't sure if it was gonna work and it actually didn't. 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:38.800 And I guess maybe one thing we can also cover too is the type of expenses that could qualify for the credit. 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:43.199 I know I briefly touched on it in the last question, but we could qualify employee time. 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:50.480 So anyone that's directly involved in the RD effort, anyone that's directly supervising the RD effort, or anyone directly supporting it. 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.480 So there's lots of layers of individuals that could potentially qualify there. 00:07:54.639 --> 00:08:03.199 We talked about supplies, but any supplies that are used and consumed in development or that are used for developing a prototype could potentially be eligible for the credit. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:10.319 And the third category of expenses that I think about when I think of my manufacturing clients would be uh contract research. 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:23.920 So if you are hiring another company or you're using a vendor to test out something that you're developing, or maybe they're engaged in testing, or maybe they're helping you develop a specific component of your product, that's a potential area that we could qualify as well. 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.959 Yeah, they could even have a contractor developing a specific part of the manufacturing line itself. 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:33.440 Like maybe you need a specific machine or equipment for that product development. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:40.240 And depending on how who owns the IP right to that piece of equipment, like you could very much claim credits on that too. 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:42.000 I love this collaboration. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:42.879 Right, right. 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.279 I mean, like the discovery is awesome. 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:45.919 Yes. 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:53.360 Okay, so many manufacturers focus on the products they make, but some of the biggest opportunities happen behind the scenes. 00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:02.080 How can improving a manufacturing process, whether it's reducing scrap, increasing thought put, or improving precision qualify for the credit? 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:08.559 Yeah, um, so pro especially with manufacturing, sometimes the product isn't even what we're claiming the credit for at all. 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:10.720 It's just the actual process itself. 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:17.360 Um so you think about it, you if you want to make, I don't know, uh like this a cup, you want to make a cup. 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:19.440 So someone designed the cup and that's done. 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:20.720 Like the design of the cup is done. 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.039 So then the question is how do you produce this cup? 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:28.080 Um, so then they have to they have to build the entire manufacturing line. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:33.279 On top of that, they have to make sure that manufacturing works with the material that you designed the cup for. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:35.120 Like can can it melt this plastic? 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.519 Can it keep this plastic from um breaking when it cools? 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.240 Like you can't cool it too fast, you want to cool it slowly. 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.200 You um there's just so many little pieces to it. 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:55.759 Um so it definitely is not just the product itself, but is that product manufacturable and how do you manufacture it and how do you manufacture it quickly while maintaining quality? 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.399 There's just so much, so many questions there. 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:10.080 Um, you know, and again, reducing scrap rates, increasing yield, um, improving throughput, um, precision, all of those things um are just critical for for manufacturing. 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:11.360 You covered it. 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:12.000 I honestly don't know. 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:12.879 I'm just like, I got it. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.000 I'm like, I have nothing else to cover. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:14.720 No, we didn't. 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:16.080 That was a nice little deep dive. 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:17.120 Thank you, Julia. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:21.279 If you want deep dives, just hey, we can keep

going. 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:27.039 Okay, so today's manufacturing environment looks very different than it did, of course, a decade ago. 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:37.679 How are investments in automation, robotics, AI, machine vision, and other advanced manufacturing technologies create new RD opportunities for manufacturers? 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.360 Yeah, the automations especially have been something that we've seen. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:56.320 So they're um, you know, getting AI involved, they're enhancing their the computer, even the computer systems within, you know, the machines are changing, and that has a lot of RD as well, and it kind of gets into the you know software development component too. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.399 Um so all of that has I mean, there's so much RD there. 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:08.480 Anytime there's new technology in the world, it usually impacts all of our clients and they're all trying to keep up with the next the newest thing. 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:11.759 So there's a lot of opportunities for RD credits there. 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:12.240 Okay. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:19.759 And then when you obviously you mentioned software development too, sometimes that can be a portion of effort that's also involved in our manufacturing client. 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:26.799 So if they are engaged in software development or they are developing something internally, there's a chance that we could qualify some of that time. 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:37.600 We just have to be mindful that we're not picking up time for like um routine configuration, or they're buying, let's say they're purchasing off-the-shelf software and they're trying to configure it with their um manufacturing line. 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.080 That would just be something we need to get a little bit more detail in. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:49.360 But we do have clients that seems to be all the, I don't want to say all the rage, but it seems to be where companies are trending towards is trying to figure out how they can integrate AI. 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:58.320 Or oftentimes their um manufacturing process is so unique that they can't just purchase software from another company or they can't license existing software. 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.519 They oftentimes have to develop something in-house for themselves. 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:09.279 So there's additional criteria to keep in mind for qualification there, but it's always worth having the conversation to see if there's eligibility for that effort. 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.840 Yeah, and robotics has been a big thing recently. 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:12.559 Really? 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:13.440 Okay, why? 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:22.559 Well, just automating um the manufacturing line so they don't need people, especially parts that maybe are dangerous, like putting a sheet metal inside of a scary-looking machine. 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.240 Clamps down. 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:25.039 Right. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:30.240 And oftentimes it can be hard to find individuals to help in that part of the assembly. 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.879 So that's where robotics really come into place, too, right? 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.159 If it's not just a safety issue, but they just can't find labor. 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.240 So now they don't have to worry about that. 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:39.120 Okay. 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:45.360 So not every improvement qualifies, but that's where many businesses become uncertain. 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:53.200 How do you distinguish between routine manufacturing activities and true technological experimentation that meets the IRS requirements? 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.960 Yeah, so I know we talked about the four-part test for credit eligibility. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:02.080 Obviously, we would walk through that with any client as we're trying to look at the various projects that they're engaged in. 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:08.080 But I think Julie and I can always say the one area that we spend a lot of our time honing in on is technical uncertainty. 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.960 We really try to figure out what is a technical uncertainty. 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.120 Is there one at the outset of your project? 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:17.360 And then are they going through that process of experimentation to eliminate that uncertainty? 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.720 Oftentimes we will have clients say, like, no, we knew exactly what to do. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:25.039 It was a simple fix, in which case, if it's simple, there's not really much experimentation. 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.120 We wouldn't want to qualify that time or effort. 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:27.440 Okay. 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:48.320 But for some of the time that they spend, it maybe I guess I would I also want to add, it might be that you can't qualify the whole project, but maybe there's a portion of the project that we need to dig into where there is some uncertainty related to the best material to use for developing a product or um again the process, how to develop like manufacture the whole product line. 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.159 That's oftentimes the questions that we get. 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:58.960 Um, so a lot of our job too is investigating and digging in and making sure that we're asking the right questions because we work with some very, very smart people. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:08.240 So sometimes they'll even say, Well, of course I knew how to develop it, or of course I knew how to do this, or I wouldn't have signed this contract, or I wouldn't have, you know, started this project. 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:11.600 So a lot of times it's like, okay, so you knew how to do exactly what to do. 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:14.799 There was no trials, there was no iteration. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:16.960 You literally just did everything in a sequence. 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:22.480 And then once you dig in and you ask those

questions, you oftentimes realize, okay, maybe it wasn't as simple or as straightforward. 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.480 So a lot of time it's digging into the details. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:33.279 So many manufacturers produce custom parts or build products to consumers' specifications, which often raises questions about eligibility. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:41.679 When manufacturers are developing solutions for a customer's unique needs, how do you determine whether that work still qualifies for the RD credit? 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.799 Yeah, I think that goes a little back to my example about the cup. 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:54.320 Like, say a manufacturer orders like a certain t-shirt or something, or a customer orders a certain t-shirt, and then it's up to the manufacturer to figure out how do I produce it? 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.480 How do I produce enough at that quantity with this color, with this quality? 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:00.559 And so there's a lot of RD there. 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:05.600 The material they have to consider the material that the the customer wants and and all of that. 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:19.039 And every time there's a change, every time they maybe have new um requirements, like, oh, actually, we don't like this part of the we need to enhance this, or we need to change this material because this material is cheaper to produce, but we want to keep the same quality. 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:23.360 Yeah, so please do it with this cheaper material, but I want it to be perfect. 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.320 I want it to perform this way with the most expensive things, but the cheapest route. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:28.720 Yeah. 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.559 So then the manufacturing company has to figure out how to do that. 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:32.799 Yeah. 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:34.960 So that's a great example. 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:40.159 A few other things to keep in mind too is we always want to make sure that um you have the IP rights, right? 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:51.600 So sometimes if you're doing work under contract, we have to dig into the contract to make sure that you have even the IP rights of the process, which doesn't come up too often, but it does come honestly, it comes up pretty 50-50, I would say. 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:53.519 So that's always something to evaluate. 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:59.360 And then we have to also look at how the payment is structured between the manufacturer and whoever their client is, too. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.279 So that will oftentimes dictate eligibility, but usually we ask those questions up front so that there's no surprises later. 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:05.840 Okay. 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.679 Even when companies are performing qualifying work, documentation can make or break a successful claim. 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:18.559 What documentation and internal processes should manufacturers have in place to confidently support an RD tax credit? 00:16:18.879

--> 00:16:22.960 Well, the good news is most of our clients already have the documentation in place. 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.480 They usually gather information on you know their trial runs. 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:34.240 They're like, okay, we manufactured this many items in this trial run, and this next time we manufactured this many in that amount of time. 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.159 And a lot they have a lot of that on hand. 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.360 They have ERP systems that are tracking information. 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.279 Um, they have different prototype design documents. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.679 They'll have like this is the first prototype, and then we made these changes, and we have this one. 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:58.639 And usually they have all of that on hand, and then if they ever need to go back and get it, um, I guess our main goal is just to make sure that it's available for them to retrieve it if they ever need it. 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.720 Um knock on wood. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.679 Well, and to that point, right, we just want to make sure that it's easily accessible. 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:04.079 Right. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:11.440 We're hoping that they never have to reference this in the future, but should they have to, at least they can easily retrieve it and have a system in place. 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:16.160 So we always recommend our clients retain their documentation for at least seven years, should they ever need it. 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:26.079 And a lot of our clients, they've retained it indefinitely, and a lot of that goes to they also want to see how their product development cycle has been or the various iterations that they've gone through that way. 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:33.599 Should they ever come across a project that's similar or come across a different development need, they also already have that documentation to reference and research. 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.640 And thanks to technological advancements, it's all on the computer. 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.799 They don't have files. 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.480 If you have a good program, I guess a good process is in place. 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.039 Yes. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.960 I would say the one area where it gets a little hairy is sometimes when they have transactions, right? 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:52.720 Or for client is acquired or um or maybe the company is shut down. 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:59.359 Obviously, those are instances where it might come up where okay, now you don't have the documentation, but we don't fortunately we don't see that as often. 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:00.240 Oh good. 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:00.559 Okay. 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:02.000 Yeah, I know. 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.440 So the value of these credits extends far beyond reducing a tax bill. 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:16.720 How have you seen manufacturers use the savings from RD tax credits to reinvest in growth, innovation, and future competitiveness? 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.039 I think the the RD credit is a great benefit for companies. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:28.319 Um so they spent all this money trying to enhance their product and maybe it didn't even work, but they can get some money back for that. 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:35.359 Or uh if it did work, they're able to hire more employees or able to get a dollar for dollar off it on their taxes. 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:41.680 That's very good um just opportunities for them to reinvest in their companies, reinvest in development. 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.680 The whole purpose of the RD credit is to spur development in the United States. 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.640 And so I think it really does that for our clients. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.640 It frees up cash flow and helps them to continue to grow and innovate. 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:54.640 That was very well said. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.759 I was like perfection. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:04.960 Well, and if you also think about it too, the federal credit usually ends up being about anywhere from four to seven percent of your qualified spend, and that's just federal. 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:10.240 And then if you couple that with state credits, about 40 of the 50 states have some sort of state level incentive. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:18.640 So their credit can really be very lucrative, depending, especially depending on where your spend is, like which state the company's located and where their employees are. 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:35.839 Um and then another thing I wanted to add is obviously it's a dollar for dollar offset off of your income tax liability, but if you're a startup, which we don't see many manufacturing startups, but if you let's say you are a you're starting a brand new manufacturing company, um, you could potentially utilize the credit to offset payroll withholding taxes. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:46.559 So let's say you can't, you don't necessarily have taxable income, you can't utilize the credit, the federal credit can be carried forward for up to 20 years, or you could potentially use it to offset payroll withholding taxes. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.839 So it can be very beneficial. 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:48.559 Yeah, it can. 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:50.160 Thank you. 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:58.480 For manufacturers listening who may have dismissed the RD tax credit in the past, today's conversation may have changed their perspective, hopefully. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:06.000 If there's one message you'd both like every manufacturer to walk away with and one first step they should take, what would it be? 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.559 Mine would be go reach out to your tax advisor. 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:10.319 Absolutely or come talk to Julie and I. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.240 We'd be happy to have a conversation. 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:17.759 A lot of what you probably do on a day-to-day basis could potentially be qualified for the RD tax credit. 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.720 So if you haven't already evaluated, have a conversation. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:28.799 Usually it can be like an initial 30-minute to one hour call where we you can we can really quickly vet out whether a company would be eligible for the credit or not. 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:30.240 So I think it's worth exploring. 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.480 If you're spending that money, put it back in the company. 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.039 Yeah. 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:34.480 Yeah, don't miss out. 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:36.160 It's it's there for you to take. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.240 So you should should at least check it out. 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.400 Utilize every possible way. 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.240 Don't leave money on the table. 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:42.799 Right. 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.039 But also have a great advisor that helps you lead through that process as well. 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:48.400 So thank you, Nina. 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.480 Thank you, Julie, for being on and providing insights into this conversation. 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:53.519 And I hope to see you back. 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:54.480 Thank you, Sheridan. 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:55.839 You're welcome. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.400 That wraps up today's conversation with Nina Desai and Julie Haken. 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.640 Today's conversation highlights that innovation in manufacturing isn't limited to breakthrough inventions. 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:12.960 It's happening every day through smarter processes, better products, automation, and continuous improvement. 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:19.759 And when companies recognize those efforts, they may also unlock valuable opportunities to reinvest in future growth. 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.000 Thanks for tuning in to Beyond the Ledger. 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:28.319 For more insights and expert perspectives, visit btcpa.net and explore our latest resources. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.920 And don't forget to like, follow, share, and subscribe. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.240 Until next time, I'm Sarday Lake Hill, and we'll see you for the next conversation.