บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Networking Can Work! How Andre De Almeida built his freelance business on conversations

00:04:49.411 People recommend you. 00:04:49.447 --> 00:04:51.983 People compliment your work. 00:04:52.483 --> 00:04:56.158 So, that's how I got my first, was basically out of a networking event. 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:59.740 I was talking to someone, and I pretty much said,"I started my business. 00:04:59.769 --> 00:05:22.838 I'm a marketing manager, more a generalist marketing manager, if you like, because that's what I've been doing in corporate for the last 15 years." And then the person said, "Oh, okay, I know somebody that might need some help with day-to-day work." So, I said, "Okay, fine." So, I got that first client there, and then the second client happened. 00:05:23.576 --> 00:05:30.511 So, it was a very good beginning of my freelance life because I got two clients within a month. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:37.860 And I said, "Okay, this is good. This is promising. This can work." The second client was a friend of my partner. 00:05:37.911 --> 00:05:39.750 She had run her business, and she needed help. 00:05:39.762 --> 00:05:42.341 I said, "Great, let's do it." We'd done some work. 00:05:42.341 --> 00:05:54.959 We worked for three months, but then I stopped searching for new clients because I was so busy, A, starting the business and working on those two projects, and then everybody knows what happened next. 00:05:55.334 --> 00:06:03.651 Those two projects finish, and then I saw myself, "Okay, I have no clients again. What do I do?" How do I survive? 00:06:03.670 --> 00:06:05.202 Is this how we work, right? 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:07.581 The marketing manager stopped marketing himself. 00:06:07.612 --> 00:06:09.297 Honestly, yes. 00:06:10.192 --> 00:06:14.136 It's absolutely crazy, but I just didn't know how to run a business. 00:06:14.178 --> 00:06:16.086 I think that's the right way of saying it. 00:06:16.634 --> 00:06:18.934 I knew how to do marketing. 00:06:18.937 --> 00:06:25.108 I know how to do marketing, but all of those extra set of skills that you just don't learn when you corporate. 00:06:25.305 --> 00:06:37.038 You just don't know how to, yeah, account, and not that I don't now, I have an accountant, but how to sell, how to onboard, and how to assess if that client is good for you or not. 00:06:37.355 --> 00:06:42.077 That's something I had to learn, because not every client is my client. 00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:50.608 So, all those things that at the beginning, A, I didn't say no to anyone because it all felt like losing money. 00:06:51.250 --> 00:07:07.680 All projects, I said, "Okay, I can do this, and I can stretch myself a little bit on this area, and I can do it." Until you… Well, it took me, again, that was a hard probably six months after those two projects finished, because then I say,"Okay, I don't have clients. 00:07:07.884 --> 00:07:18.735 What do I do?" And then I start going back to networking events and meeting people and talking, and I've been vulnerable, telling people that it's okay to say it to you, you don't have no clients. 00:07:18.802 --> 00:07:19.610 It's okay to say that. 00:07:20.223 --> 00:07:24.257 You don't have to be successful all the time. 00:07:24.257 --> 00:07:24.976 That's how I learned. 00:07:24.985 --> 00:07:34.218 The more transparent you are, the more honest you are, you don't try to say that you are in a position that you're not, people connect with you, and they understand you. 00:07:34.908 --> 00:07:40.713 That was my experience mainly, but… What kind of networking events were these? 00:07:41.048 --> 00:07:42.208 It was a little bit of everything. 00:07:42.497 --> 00:07:46.206 I was going to, obviously joining the Being Freelance, that helped me. 00:07:46.209 --> 00:07:48.466 I met people there that recommend me to clients. 00:07:49.062 --> 00:07:51.324 Cat, we share a client until today. 00:07:52.002 --> 00:07:56.961 Catherine Saunders, she's a marketing manager as well, and yeah, we've been collaborating with this client for over two years now. 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:58.079 Oh my God. 00:07:58.240 --> 00:07:59.247 Sorry to interject. 00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:02.069 Right, okay, we'll put a pin in networking. 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:06.475 What's crazy about that is I remember when you two first met. 00:08:06.591 --> 00:08:06.807 Yeah. 00:08:06.913 --> 00:08:13.779 Because we went on a Being Freelance golf day, which was mini golf- Yes. 00:08:13.779 --> 00:08:23.187 It was a mini… in London, and it was your first time, and it was Cat's first time, and you were both marketers, and you hit it off. 00:08:23.607 --> 00:08:28.355 I didn't realise you'd been working together with the same client since, well, almost since then. 00:08:28.377 --> 00:08:29.362 Yeah, we have. 00:08:30.038 --> 00:08:30.591 Amazing. 00:08:30.619 --> 00:08:31.160 Yeah. 00:08:33.133 --> 00:08:41.735 It's incredible when you look back that we were in the same position at the same time, starting our businesses and- Yeah… going through the same type of thing, and yeah, it's really good. 00:08:41.735 --> 00:08:45.774 We've been sharing this client and looking forward to carry on for next year. 00:08:46.269 --> 00:08:54.996 Yeah, apart from the Being Freelance network and the co-working, I went to, Steve, every network event that I saw online. 00:08:54.998 --> 00:08:58.187 I said, "Okay, I'm going to go to this," because I had the time. 00:08:58.914 --> 00:09:04.130 I wasn't busy with work, and I did free work as well. 00:09:04.731 --> 00:09:14.235 I messaged people saying, "Hey, would you like a free marketing audit?" Because it was my way of, A, testing some process, but also keeping myself busy. 00:09:14.238 --> 00:09:16.966 I hated not having anything to do during the day. 00:09:17.376 --> 00:09:30.595 So, free work, and I was, like I said, anything in London, network-wise, I was going to breakfasts, I was going to dinner, catch-ups, IT, AI. 00:09:32.369 --> 00:09:35.422 Oh my God, every event that I could come across. 00:09:35.676 --> 00:09:43.121 Got invited to

some interesting ones that I never came back, but it felt like a cult. 00:09:43.153 --> 00:09:47.342 I'm not going to name and shame, but yeah, it felt like a cult that they want to convert me. 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:59.100 But, yeah, and then I found, I think from those networking events, I just found my voice, the way I want to present the business, the way I present myself, and that's what the clients get. 00:09:59.166 --> 00:10:02.868 The same Andre that they meet on the network events is the same Andre that worked with them. 00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:06.246 Networking became my main source of clients, really. 00:10:06.768 --> 00:10:12.548 So, does that mean when you first went to networking, you felt you were pretending to be something else? 00:10:13.163 --> 00:10:13.504 Yeah. 00:10:13.602 --> 00:10:15.104 And then event… Yeah, go on, what happened? 00:10:15.104 --> 00:10:16.174 Yeah, yeah, that exactly it. 00:10:16.182 --> 00:10:24.210 So, when I went for the first time, you meet people, and everybody is always… It felt like almost like an Instagram Live. 00:10:24.368 --> 00:10:29.970 Everybody had a perfect business, everybody was busy, everybody had inquiries coming, everybody had projects. 00:10:29.989 --> 00:10:32.495 And I was like, "Okay, I don't have any of those. 00:10:33.619 --> 00:10:39.395 So, do I have to just not tell people that I started a business now, or it's a recent business? 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:55.328 What is the right thing to say?" It wasn't until I said to people, "Oh, how's your work going?" Said, "Oh, actually, it's going really tough because I have no clients." So, that's when I felt I connect with people more, when I was being transparent. 00:10:55.352 --> 00:11:00.511 I wasn't trying to hide that I didn't have clients or that I had a successful business then. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.232 So, for me, it was a tipping point. 00:11:04.475 --> 00:11:06.035 Just, yeah, it's okay. 00:11:06.078 --> 00:11:07.255 It's okay to have no clients. 00:11:07.645 --> 00:11:11.642 Financially, it's not, but as a business, as a person, it happens. 00:11:11.924 --> 00:11:13.323 And it was all new to me. 00:11:13.828 --> 00:11:15.163 Yes, we're up and running. 00:11:15.173 --> 00:11:17.630 Thank you for joining us for another one, by the way. 00:11:17.881 --> 00:11:22.182 Don't forget, these podcasts are available in video as well, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. 00:11:22.259 --> 00:11:29.856 And this episode is supported by Gold Stag Accounts, specialists in freelancer finances. 00:11:30.148 --> 00:11:42.208 They're for your tax returns, ongoing support, making sense of making tax digital, when you need to start charging VAT, or ready to help make you a cup of tea, because they're lovely people to hang out with too. 00:11:42.626 --> 00:11:47.414 They take care of hundreds of freelancers' finances, mine included. 00:11:47.855 --> 00:11:54.782 Why not set up a chat today at goldstagaccounts.co.uk and say hello to Martin from me. 00:11:55.125 --> 00:11:57.317 All right, let's get back to Andre's story. 00:11:58.653 --> 00:12:05.019 So, is networking still today your main marketing channel? 00:12:05.245 --> 00:12:07.405 Yeah, it is, for two reasons. 00:12:07.437 --> 00:12:11.638 One, gives me a reason to get out of the house and get out of the office. 00:12:12.784 --> 00:12:15.589 And the second one, I just like to talk to people. 00:12:15.686 --> 00:12:24.442 I found out that I like to be out and understanding people and trying to learn what I can help them with on a marketing side. 00:12:24.442 --> 00:12:26.174 And sometimes I just give, yeah, free tips. 00:12:26.174 --> 00:12:35.113 And I was in a network event last month that I organized, the Business Buzz, that I help to organize every month. 00:12:35.163 --> 00:12:43.067 And I was talking to this guy, and he was telling me a few things, and I just said, "Oh, from my experience, I think you should do this and that," because he was asking me. 00:12:43.086 --> 00:13:00.875 I said, "Oh, but I don't want to pick your ears too much because I'm not your client." He said,"Listen, that's fine if you feel this is valuable to you and will help your business." Because a lot of people helped me when I started, so I just feel fine to give it back and help people in that way. 00:13:00.876 --> 00:13:04.032 And if they see the value and they can become a client, why not? 00:13:04.304 --> 00:13:05.599 I don't see that as a problem. 00:13:05.599 --> 00:13:09.428 But for me, it's getting out of the house and talking to people and meeting people. 00:13:09.552 --> 00:13:10.804 I really like that. 00:13:10.816 --> 00:13:13.109 And yeah, clients come from it. 00:13:13.905 --> 00:13:17.785 And did you say just now that you organise a networking event as well? 00:13:17.787 --> 00:13:18.479 Is that what you said? 00:13:18.581 --> 00:13:19.486 Yes, it is, yeah. 00:13:19.687 --> 00:13:25.023 So, there's a event or a company called Business Buzz. 00:13:25.861 --> 00:13:26.865 Not Business Bus. 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:29.356 My partner always corrects me because it sounds like the bus. 00:13:30.796 --> 00:13:31.264 Buzz. 00:13:31.288 --> 00:13:31.578 Buzz. 00:13:31.595 --> 00:13:32.220 Like a Bee. 00:13:32.239 --> 00:13:32.974 Bee, yeah. 00:13:33.236 --> 00:13:33.490 Yeah. 00:13:34.311 --> 00:13:40.999 So, probably one and a half years ago, I went to this network event, Central London. 00:13:41.293 --> 00:13:44.759 Again, small event for business, solopreneurs. 00:13:44.768 --> 00:13:46.953 It's a very diverse type of event. 00:13:47.436 --> 00:13:51.730 And I really liked because it didn't feel like a card swapping event. 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:57.626 So, people were actually wants to talk to you and wants to know you, and not just, "Hi, my name is Andre. Here's my card. 00:13:57.626 --> 00:13:59.129 Grab your card," and off you go. 00:13:59.808 --> 00:14:08.876 So, I went a few times, and then they were expanding to Canary Wharf, which is

literally one stop for me on the tube here. 00:14:09.096 --> 00:14:11.922 They were looking for somebody to help them to run the event in Canary Wharf. 00:14:11.923 --> 00:14:15.645 I said, "Oh, okay. Well, that sounds fun, sounds convenient. 00:14:15.884 --> 00:14:21.202 It's a good timing." So, I joined the host, and now we run these events in Canary Wharf. 00:14:21.203 --> 00:14:22.142 Yeah, network events. 00:14:22.615 --> 00:14:24.966 So, you've been doing that about a year, 18 months? 00:14:24.966 --> 00:14:25.623 18 months, yeah, with them. 00:14:25.640 --> 00:14:25.940 Yeah. 00:14:25.975 --> 00:14:26.260 Yeah. 00:14:26.666 --> 00:14:38.376 Since becoming an organiser, have you noticed a difference in the way people get to know you or maybe work that might come your way, or any, like a difference between attending to being an organiser? 00:14:38.967 --> 00:14:40.030 Well, there is, yes. 00:14:40.059 --> 00:14:44.572 I feel that organising, I have less time to network. 00:14:45.208 --> 00:14:45.453 Oh. 00:14:46.828 --> 00:14:57.807 Because I just want to make sure everybody's welcomed in the room and they feel introduced to people that they can collaborate, but also put me on the other side of the room, on the other side of the coin, rather. 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.695 People know me as the person that helps to organize the event. 00:15:02.119 --> 00:15:04.767 I don't feel I then have to network too hard when I'm there. 00:15:05.091 --> 00:15:10.313 But even so, when I attend a network event now, I have so much more to talk. 00:15:11.254 --> 00:15:13.308 I've been running the business for almost three years. 00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:23.557 I run a network event, and a few other things I've done on the business over the last couple of years, that it feels easier to go to a network event now. 00:15:24.168 --> 00:15:33.304 Now, that's not the only way that you have tried to market yourself, though, because I know you did a podcast, or maybe you still do do a podcast as well, right? 00:15:33.341 --> 00:15:33.952 Yeah, you're right. 00:15:33.952 --> 00:15:34.208 Yeah. 00:15:34.212 --> 00:15:37.291 So, I don't know if we still do. 00:15:37.398 --> 00:15:38.197 We paused it. 00:15:39.630 --> 00:15:41.268 We didn't stop it, we paused it. 00:15:41.288 --> 00:15:42.046 That's what we say. 00:15:42.702 --> 00:15:48.525 Because we did two seasons, so we have probably about 24 episodes live. 00:15:49.263 --> 00:15:56.743 But I got super busy with work, and my podcast partner decided to grow her family, which is incredible, amazing. 00:15:56.811 --> 00:16:01.361 So, yeah, managing both of us at the same time was quite hard. 00:16:01.368 --> 00:16:15.273 So, we stopped the podcast for probably two years, let's say, because we really enjoyed doing it quite a bit, because, A, it was our way to keep in touch with each other, collaborating and learning and researching, keeping us fresh, really. 00:16:15.743 --> 00:16:21.543 And then the other side of the podcast, obviously, was the conversations and the amount of people that we got to meet. 00:16:22.235 --> 00:16:29.000 So, it started again with immediate friends and colleagues from Brighton, because I did my master's in Brighton. 00:16:30.201 --> 00:16:37.052 So, we had the immediate teachers and coordinators from the course, and they introduced us to some people, and then their people. 00:16:37.249 --> 00:16:42.000 It was just like a domino effect of incredible people that came our way. 00:16:42.462 --> 00:16:45.014 I said, "You know what? Why not?" Again, I have the time. 00:16:46.013 --> 00:16:49.075 I was just trying. 00:16:49.087 --> 00:16:50.446 That's what I like about marketing. 00:16:50.446 --> 00:16:51.451 It's all about trying, isn't it? 00:16:51.471 --> 00:16:53.240 You can try, and it's my business. 00:16:53.296 --> 00:16:55.201 If it doesn't work, that's my problem. 00:16:56.743 --> 00:17:08.553 So, yeah, I was just trying just different ways of putting myself out there and getting to show my experience, and show people, in a way, what can I do to help them. 00:17:09.061 --> 00:17:10.173 What was the format of it? 00:17:10.409 --> 00:17:11.601 Similar to what we're having here. 00:17:12.373 --> 00:17:18.568 It was three people, because it was Prachi, myself, and the guest, talking about marketing. 00:17:18.570 --> 00:17:22.416 So, we always had a marketing person coming in, or a branding person, or a design. 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.585 Basically, a very friendly conversation about marketing. 00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:27.217 That's it. 00:17:28.096 --> 00:17:29.732 And that helped you on network as well? 00:17:32.051 --> 00:17:38.669 It helped me on getting comfortable with my English, getting comfortable being recorded, comfortable on camera. 00:17:40.002 --> 00:17:42.116 So, that really helped a lot. 00:17:42.146 --> 00:17:47.621 And then when you get the feedback from people, that's when, for me, I was like,"Okay, yes, we can do this. 00:17:47.974 --> 00:17:54.718 Prachi and I, we can carry on doing it." Because people were introducing, like I said, us to other people that they trust. 00:17:54.722 --> 00:18:00.287 So, it was just that kind of a social proof, personally and emotionally, I guess. 00:18:00.778 --> 00:18:02.961 So, you get to experiment with your own marketing. 00:18:03.066 --> 00:18:04.143 Have you tried anything else? 00:18:04.363 --> 00:18:06.638 I collaborated on a marketing book, if that counts. 00:18:07.246 --> 00:18:07.971 I should say so. 00:18:09.593 --> 00:18:12.781 So, it started because of the podcast. 00:18:12.788 --> 00:18:21.378 So we did one episode on Pret A Manger expanding to India, and the marketing strategy behind, and the pricing, and everything. 00:18:22.127 --> 00:18:39.280 One teacher, one lecturer from Brighton saw, watched the podcast, and she was writing a marketing case study book, and then she said, "Andre, would you like, and Prachi, would you like to write a case study on that to be

included in the book?" I said, "Oh, my God. 00:18:39.634 --> 00:18:43.596 Yes, why not?" So we did. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.268 It was a lot of work. 00:18:45.308 --> 00:18:53.627 If only I knew how much work and effort would have to be to write a official case study and get published in a book. 00:18:53.961 --> 00:18:54.440 But we did. 00:18:54.448 --> 00:19:02.723 So yeah, I can say that, if you buy a marketing book, on a marketing, obviously, library, you can find my name there. 00:19:02.868 --> 00:19:03.491 Come on. 00:19:03.528 --> 00:19:08.261 I mean, that underlines credentials and authority in what you're doing. 00:19:08.694 --> 00:19:15.108 There was a point in this when you were feeling like you had no idea how to run a business. 00:19:15.592 --> 00:19:16.765 How's that feeling now? 00:19:18.078 --> 00:19:19.236 It feels much better. 00:19:19.915 --> 00:19:21.268 Some days, I feel the same. 00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:24.856 I was like, "Oh my God, what's happening? What I'm doing here?" Panicking a little bit. 00:19:24.898 --> 00:19:28.282 But, I guess, I will keep learning. 00:19:28.474 --> 00:19:33.837 You keep facing challenges and you learn from it, and the next time it happens, it gets better. 00:19:34.348 --> 00:19:38.817 But now, yeah, I have processes of onboarding clients. 00:19:38.817 --> 00:19:45.317 So when a client comes to me, we have a talk, and then I think it's a joint decision. 00:19:45.683 --> 00:19:52.471 Does that client fit my work, and do I fit within their brand or their company, really? 00:19:52.934 --> 00:19:57.826 So, that kind of a process is that I had to go through the beginning. 00:19:57.847 --> 00:20:02.662 They don't know how does that going to look like in six months. 00:20:02.673 --> 00:20:08.823 I can sell the project, but what I'm delivering, how do I assess, how do I measure, what KPI they're going to implement? 00:20:08.865 --> 00:20:16.065 And now, I feel much more comfortable to talk to somebody and understanding,"Okay, I can help you," or, "No, sorry, I can't. 00:20:16.325 --> 00:20:23.659 No, I can recommend you to somebody else because it's not my expertise." So, in that sense of running the business, I feel I got much better. 00:20:24.946 --> 00:20:25.336 Yeah. 00:20:25.384 --> 00:20:27.951 As you put it earlier, not every client is your client. 00:20:28.383 --> 00:20:28.960 I love that. 00:20:29.013 --> 00:20:29.348 Yeah. 00:20:29.747 --> 00:20:30.894 Put that on a T-shirt. 00:20:30.972 --> 00:20:31.325 Yes. 00:20:32.307 --> 00:20:33.301 Yeah, and it's true. 00:20:33.310 --> 00:20:35.353 It's true because at some point, there will be a clash. 00:20:35.713 --> 00:20:41.356 There will be a clash on the client expectations or the way they communicate. 00:20:41.398 --> 00:20:44.503 I had to have some tough conversation with clients. 00:20:44.532 --> 00:21:01.673 "Listen, you need to respect me. That's not the way I will let you to talk to me. And, if that's going to carry on, we better part ways here." Some tough conversations I had to learn how to do, how to have, and stand up for myself, stand up for my business. 00:21:01.736 --> 00:21:09.011 And, I had clients asking the most crazy things, and I said, "That's not how my business operate." And it felt really good. 00:21:10.721 --> 00:21:12.928 Yes, Andre! Yeah. 00:21:13.256 --> 00:21:17.909 So what do you think does make a good sort of client relationship, sort of dealing with clients? 00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:20.628 Ooh, that's a really good question. 00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:28.037 I think, obviously, everybody's different, but for me, it's somebody that understands why I started the business. 00:21:28.348 --> 00:21:33.943 So for example, if I have to sell marketing to somebody, it is already a red flag for me. 00:21:33.943 --> 00:21:34.390 It's a no. 00:21:35.038 --> 00:21:37.336 Because it's hard enough selling myself. 00:21:37.988 --> 00:21:42.730 If I still have to convince you that your business needs marketing, then no. 00:21:44.372 --> 00:21:45.601 You better go somewhere else. 00:21:46.294 --> 00:21:50.291 Because I don't want to invest the energy and time try to convince, because it will be a everyday battle. 00:21:50.625 --> 00:21:57.809 So, that's for me- It's already a big indicator that, okay, we can work together or not. 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:04.727 Some values, some way of communicating, respect has to come both ways. 00:22:05.339 --> 00:22:11.503 You said that you go to a lot of networking, that that really worked and continues to work for you. 00:22:12.133 --> 00:22:15.884 What I didn't ask was, what does it actually look like? 00:22:15.903 --> 00:22:18.976 How many events are you going to a week or a month? 00:22:19.280 --> 00:22:20.025 Day, night? 00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:22.251 What's the- Oh, I can't do night events. 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:23.192 No. 00:22:24.695 --> 00:22:26.228 So, two things. 00:22:26.238 --> 00:22:29.278 If the events are too early in the day, I don't go anymore. 00:22:30.698 --> 00:22:34.550 So some events, they are quite good, but they start at 7:00 in the morning, so I'm sorry. 00:22:34.958 --> 00:22:35.270 No. 00:22:37.107 --> 00:22:43.929 00 p.m., it's like, no, that's my time to be home, watching my games, relaxing. 00:22:44.227 --> 00:22:48.159 So, any other events that fit in between 10:00 in 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.361 00 p.m., that works well for me. 00:22:53.709 --> 00:22:54.891 It's a good problem to have. 00:22:54.923 --> 00:23:02.112 I'm quite busy with work, so I'm literally just attending the events that I organize, so basically that one once a month. 00:23:03.172 --> 00:23:16.068 Over the last eight to 10 months, I had to really choose where I spend my time between working on my business or working on client projects, so now I have to really prioritize the clients. 00:23:16.888 --> 00:23:21.818 Yeah, as an independent business, there's only so many days a month that I can work. 00:23:21.824 --> 00:23:25.394 There's only so many

hours I can work, so there's only so many clients I can take in. 00:23:26.237 --> 00:23:27.859 So, I really need to be careful. 00:23:27.861 --> 00:23:29.126 But I still have a pipeline of clients. 00:23:29.134 --> 00:23:30.132 I learned that the hard way. 00:23:31.402 --> 00:23:32.000 Yes. 00:23:33.001 --> 00:23:37.997 Well, I like the fact that you're not working after 6:00 p.m. by the sounds of it. 00:23:38.009 --> 00:23:39.971 So your work/life balance is pretty good, is it? 00:23:40.036 --> 00:23:40.575 It is. 00:23:40.676 --> 00:23:50.566 It is because when I decided to start the business, I had this vision of, if I want to take a Friday off, I'll take a Friday off. 00:23:51.073 --> 00:23:57.346 If I want to, I don't know, work tomorrow from 10:00 in the morning, I will do that. 00:23:57.871 --> 00:24:13.750 I always try to fit in, and I think I heard that on another guest from the podcast, Steve, on your guest, fit your work calendar after your life calendar or something like… It was something on those lines, because it's true. 00:24:14.568 --> 00:24:17.606 I can sit here to work and spend 10 hours working. 00:24:18.132 --> 00:24:19.459 That's every day, I can. 00:24:19.816 --> 00:24:22.085 It's not that I don't have work, but I need to organize. 00:24:22.087 --> 00:24:23.049 You need to be organized. 00:24:23.435 --> 00:24:26.852 Otherwise, I'm just going to let the work take over my life. 00:24:27.634 --> 00:24:29.467 "Schedule life first". 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:30.318 That's it. 00:24:30.348 --> 00:24:31.234 That's this, yeah. 00:24:31.989 --> 00:24:37.550 It's one of my favorite quotes from Rachel Ramsey, and yeah, I try to cling to that as well. 00:24:37.907 --> 00:24:39.557 Put life in your calendar first. 00:24:39.557 --> 00:24:43.615 In fact, Helen said something similar on a few episodes ago. 00:24:44.324 --> 00:24:48.260 How about taking time off? 00:24:48.874 --> 00:24:51.373 It's an ongoing struggle. 00:24:52.642 --> 00:24:54.778 It always feels wrong for me. 00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.844 It's still weird. 00:24:56.493 --> 00:25:02.128 It feels wrong taking time off because I create this relationship with my clients so they can count on me. 00:25:02.974 --> 00:25:06.224 I'm always available on my phone or WhatsApp, or email. 00:25:07.094 --> 00:25:11.349 So taking time off from it, it's strange. 00:25:11.719 --> 00:25:15.601 It's probably been three years that I have not switched off completely. 00:25:16.163 --> 00:25:27.209 If I'm traveling, or I always have my laptop with me, so I go to Brazil for two weeks, I take my laptop, because if something happens, I need to be able to work and help my clients when the problem happens. 00:25:27.709 --> 00:25:35.273 But I always try to take a week, so say, I'm not working this week, but I'm available. 00:25:35.569 --> 00:25:41.507 So it's an interesting for me, and it's something that I probably still need to work on, is that it's okay to take time off. 00:25:42.407 --> 00:25:43.914 Take two weeks off, and it's okay. 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.818 The business will survive, both sides, clients and mine. 00:25:48.238 --> 00:25:48.893 You would hope. 00:25:49.365 --> 00:25:56.701 I have some trips coming, so looking forward to those as well, and I will have to take 10 days off for sure. 00:25:56.992 --> 00:25:57.428 Nice. 00:25:57.464 --> 00:25:58.650 Well, enjoy those days. 00:25:59.007 --> 00:26:04.561 And have you had any sort of business coach or mentoring or anything like that along the way? 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:05.625 Not officially. 00:26:07.617 --> 00:26:12.259 Like I said, I had this support networking group. 00:26:12.326 --> 00:26:19.123 So, for example, it was a friend of a friend that we had a good relationship, that I could always go and ask some questions. 00:26:20.643 --> 00:26:32.477 Again, tapping back on the freelance community, people that I met that had a business, and I could message them, say, "Hey, I'm struggling with this. What do you think?" So, I was never scared to ask. 00:26:33.969 --> 00:26:35.805 If you don't ask, you don't get, basically. 00:26:35.931 --> 00:26:50.979 So, never had an official coach, but had people that I trusted, and we created this really good work relationship that I could go and ask them questions about marketing, about running a business, and I have. 00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:51.664 I always have. 00:26:52.218 --> 00:26:56.763 Yeah, so as you heard, Andre is part of the Being Freelance Community. 00:26:56.845 --> 00:26:58.022 Such a lovely guy. 00:26:58.102 --> 00:27:00.584 It's been a pleasure to get to know him over the past few years. 00:27:01.012 --> 00:27:02.797 And you can come and hang out with us too. 00:27:02.829 --> 00:27:04.558 Go to beingfreelance.com. 00:27:04.627 --> 00:27:08.558 Seriously, it makes such a difference being surrounded by others who get it. 00:27:08.570 --> 00:27:14.390 We do weekly online co-working, plenty of other events as well, both online and in real life, as you heard. 00:27:15.174 --> 00:27:17.505 He came along to our mini golf day. 00:27:17.569 --> 00:27:24.480 He's also made friends in there and found work in there, and this happens again and again and again, especially when you join us and you get involved. 00:27:24.492 --> 00:27:32.238 So, if you want a place to ask questions, to celebrate your wins, and hang out with other freelancers, come find us at beingfreelance.com. 00:27:32.306 --> 00:27:34.318 Click on Community. 00:27:35.174 --> 00:27:38.463 Okay, speaking of Andre, let's get back to his story. 00:27:39.563 --> 00:27:46.647 Now, Andre, I always do this thing where I ask for three facts about yourself, make two true, one a lie, and let me figure out the lie. 00:27:46.813 --> 00:27:47.795 What have you got for me? 00:27:48.192 --> 00:27:52.738 I'm just pretending that I didn't have this written in my book for the last five years, but hey. 00:27:54.327 --> 00:27:54.568 No. 00:27:55.277 --> 00:27:56.364 So, first one. 00:27:56.872

--> 00:28:05.178 I got once booked to play a DJ set at Ministry of Sound in London, which is one of the most iconic clubs in the world. 00:28:06.561 --> 00:28:15.294 Second one is, I got lost once hiking in Kent and had to be rescued by the National Trust team. 00:28:17.303 --> 00:28:31.113 And the third one is, I was doing a skydiving course, and I had a problem with my parachute, and I never skydived again. 00:28:31.554 --> 00:28:31.980 All right. 00:28:32.041 --> 00:28:33.279 Okay, we're starting there. 00:28:33.329 --> 00:28:35.931 Where were you learning to skydive, and what the heck happened? 00:28:36.348 --> 00:28:43.864 That was back in Brazil, and my parachute didn't action, so I had to cut and use the emergency one. 00:28:44.402 --> 00:28:46.260 Oh my God. 00:28:47.344 --> 00:28:49.414 Were you by yourself or with somebody else? 00:28:49.513 --> 00:28:50.573 It was a solo jump. 00:28:51.140 --> 00:28:53.432 A solo jump, and your chute didn't open? 00:28:53.451 --> 00:28:53.980 Yes. 00:28:54.568 --> 00:28:55.794 So what do you mean you had to cut? 00:28:55.902 --> 00:28:56.750 Cut it off? 00:28:56.825 --> 00:29:05.587 Yeah, so you have a lever or a string that you pull, and- Yeah… it literally cuts the main parachute, and then you action the emergency one. 00:29:06.027 --> 00:29:08.625 So that the emergency one can't get caught up in the other one? 00:29:08.631 --> 00:29:09.788 Yeah, basically. 00:29:09.791 --> 00:29:10.080 Yeah. 00:29:10.893 --> 00:29:12.049 Oh my God. 00:29:14.219 --> 00:29:14.815 Okay. 00:29:14.961 --> 00:29:19.163 Now, dare I say it, that sounds a little bit more dramatic than getting lost in Kent. 00:29:19.833 --> 00:29:27.195 Kent, if you're listening around the world, is a very sedate part of England just south of London. 00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:31.022 It's where they grow apple trees and things like that. 00:29:33.003 --> 00:29:37.403 It's not like the Scottish Highlands or something like that, or the Brazilian jungle. 00:29:38.032 --> 00:29:41.451 So, how did you get lost hiking in Kent? 00:29:42.289 --> 00:29:52.846 Basically, I tried to be a bit more adventurous and not use Google Maps, so I print out the PDF with directions and where to turn and where to go. 00:29:54.215 --> 00:29:57.868 It was winter, so it got dark fairly quick. 00:29:59.326 --> 00:30:03.480 And my phone died, so I could not even ask for help. 00:30:03.482 --> 00:30:27.471 So, I was just following this track, and I got lost for about three hours, and eventually I found this castle, and-… and the team said, "Are you okay? Are you lost?" And I think they saw the state of me, and then they rescued me and drove me to the station. 00:30:28.529 --> 00:30:40.090 What doesn't quite ring true is, it would be very hard to be lost in Kent for three hours and not come across anything, i.e., houses, a pub, a road. 00:30:40.233 --> 00:30:41.795 This isn't the Grand Canyon. 00:30:42.500 --> 00:30:43.419 It's Kent. 00:30:44.423 --> 00:30:54.324 And then, for the first thing you stumble across to be a castle?! And yet, clearly, yes, they do have castles in Kent. 00:30:55.586 --> 00:30:57.328 That just sounds ridiculous. 00:30:59.672 --> 00:31:00.285 Okay. 00:31:00.575 --> 00:31:06.230 Now, the next one was, you DJ'd at the Ministry of Sound. 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:08.490 I got booked for it, yeah. 00:31:08.981 --> 00:31:09.163 Yeah. 00:31:09.163 --> 00:31:10.038 Oh, but you never did it? 00:31:10.117 --> 00:31:10.994 I didn't do, no. 00:31:10.994 --> 00:31:11.715 It didn't happen. 00:31:11.998 --> 00:31:13.480 What event were you booked for? 00:31:13.768 --> 00:31:17.865 The Ministry of Sound is booking, I don't know, David Guetta or something. 00:31:18.633 --> 00:31:22.910 No disrespect, but how did you get booked, and how did it not happen? 00:31:24.222 --> 00:31:26.073 It didn't happen because of COVID. 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:27.784 Oh. 00:31:27.820 --> 00:31:29.547 Yeah, which was a shame. 00:31:29.670 --> 00:31:40.534 And, it was through a DJ music production course in London that I got to meet people and, yeah, that's pretty much it. 00:31:40.903 --> 00:31:41.549 Oh, I don't know. 00:31:41.570 --> 00:31:48.327 This could be true, especially if you're saying COVID, because this kind of plays into your timeline. 00:31:49.248 --> 00:31:50.631 These are great stories. 00:31:52.192 --> 00:31:54.462 Each of them ridiculous in their own way. 00:31:56.307 --> 00:32:07.000 There is so much I don't believe about the castle story, like I have said, and yet, maybe your memory is embellishing it. 00:32:07.078 --> 00:32:11.250 Maybe you really did get lost, and you did come across a castle, and they did help you. 00:32:13.178 --> 00:32:15.022 I don't believe it was for three hours, though. 00:32:15.866 --> 00:32:19.083 Unless you're really good at going round in circles. 00:32:20.201 --> 00:32:21.398 I have hiked in Kent. 00:32:21.451 --> 00:32:23.198 I just don't think it's possible. 00:32:23.958 --> 00:32:28.887 But what a story to tell people back in Brazil, that it was a castle that you ended up in. 00:32:29.862 --> 00:32:30.904 And there are castles. 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.713 That is true. 00:32:31.746 --> 00:32:33.532 Okay, Ministry of Sound DJ. 00:32:33.538 --> 00:32:41.556 Yes, of course, that's possible, and not everybody who plays the Ministry of Sound is a big name DJ. 00:32:41.596 --> 00:32:44.067 They have other people on the lineups. 00:32:45.997 --> 00:32:49.105 And then the skydive one is terrifying. 00:32:49.595 --> 00:32:51.896 Kind of feels like that's probably true. 00:32:53.644 --> 00:32:54.080 No. 00:32:54.171 --> 00:32:54.849 Do you know what? 00:32:54.862 --> 00:32:59.929 The one I have poured the most scorn on is the one I really should say isn't true. 00:33:00.305 --> 00:33:02.750 So, I reckon the DJ is, the skydive is. 00:33:02.842 --> 00:33:07.799 I don't think he got lost in Kent and got rescued at a castle by the National Trust. 00:33:08.161 --> 00:33:08.862 That's the

lie. 00:33:09.028 --> 00:33:09.646 Okay. 00:33:10.442 --> 00:33:12.537 Yeah, you're wrong. 00:33:14.056 --> 00:33:15.434 That is absolutely true. 00:33:17.574 --> 00:33:19.942 I'm so ashamed of saying it, but yes. 00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.148 I got lost, and all the facts were true. 00:33:23.211 --> 00:33:26.972 I was lost for three hours in a wood, in these woods in Kent. 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:42.535 Couldn't find my bearings, couldn't find a way out of it, and I literally had to listen for any sound, and I was following the sounds of a motorway, apparently, and then I found this little country lane. 00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:44.839 It sounds ridiculous. 00:33:44.854 --> 00:33:46.083 And there was a castle, yes. 00:33:46.092 --> 00:33:47.939 There was a National Trust castle, yes. 00:33:49.244 --> 00:33:51.146 That is ridiculous. 00:33:51.555 --> 00:33:52.201 Yes. 00:33:52.278 --> 00:33:55.807 To come out of the wood lost- Honestly… and find a castle. 00:33:55.923 --> 00:33:58.320 Also, sorry, castles are quite big. 00:33:58.330 --> 00:34:01.063 You would have thought you would have seen it in the distance. 00:34:02.563 --> 00:34:03.478 It was terrifying. 00:34:04.749 --> 00:34:07.660 No phone, winter, and yeah, lost in the woods. 00:34:08.375 --> 00:34:09.097 Okay. 00:34:09.365 --> 00:34:10.608 The DJ is a lie. 00:34:12.036 --> 00:34:13.097 It's true as well. 00:34:13.188 --> 00:34:14.525 Oh my God. 00:34:14.938 --> 00:34:17.637 I'm so bad today. 00:34:17.641 --> 00:34:17.905 You've totally got me. 00:34:18.215 --> 00:34:24.385 In between the time of practicing my English, getting to know people, I did a music production course in Camden. 00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:32.864 And as part of the course, they book some students to play a Ministry of Sound, and it didn't happen because of COVID. 00:34:33.951 --> 00:34:38.505 So the skydive- Yeah… was… Have you even skydived? 00:34:38.521 --> 00:34:38.987 Never. 00:34:39.025 --> 00:34:40.351 I'm a… Never. 00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:45.559 Never. 00:34:45.913 --> 00:34:48.940 And I don't think I ever will, for the obvious reasons. 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:52.090 Wow. 00:34:52.128 --> 00:34:53.476 You well and truly win that one. 00:34:53.994 --> 00:34:59.326 Now, Andre, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be? 00:34:59.811 --> 00:35:00.610 Just do it. 00:35:01.177 --> 00:35:02.632 Just go for it. 00:35:03.010 --> 00:35:03.831 It will work out. 00:35:04.431 --> 00:35:05.023 Just go for it. 00:35:05.023 --> 00:35:06.981 You have everything that you need, so go for it. 00:35:07.659 --> 00:35:08.981 There is no coming back, Andre. 00:35:10.092 --> 00:35:10.952 One quick thing. 00:35:11.644 --> 00:35:18.010 I noticed on your LinkedIn that you have the word fractional mentioned. 00:35:18.452 --> 00:35:20.706 So I've tried quite a few things. 00:35:21.393 --> 00:35:23.483 I've tried part-time marketing manager. 00:35:23.815 --> 00:35:26.246 I've tried CMO. 00:35:27.034 -->

00:35:35.288 So I've tried part-time, I've tried CMO, I've tried freelancer marketing manager, and fractional marketing manager. 00:35:36.072 --> 00:35:43.902 And I did a few tests, a trial with those at network events and online events, and even marketing there on a blog, for example. 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:53.804 Fractional had the best… People were much more comfortable talking to me as a fractional marketing manager than a CMO. 00:35:53.965 --> 00:36:01.615 CMO, I've always had people telling me, "Okay, so you might be too expensive for me." That was the common- So CMO being chief marketing officer? 00:36:01.637 --> 00:36:01.994 Yeah. 00:36:02.403 --> 00:36:10.655 People quite often said,"Oh, okay, so you might be too expensive for me. Might be out of my budget." But it doesn't mean as a fractional marketing manager, I'm not. 00:36:10.896 --> 00:36:14.416 It's just that the feeling from the word. 00:36:15.369 --> 00:36:20.942 A freelance marketing manager, I didn't get much traction when I presented that. 00:36:22.567 --> 00:36:26.411 But yeah, fractional is just a word that worked for me, for my audience, if you like. 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:29.278 Yeah, I think that's important, isn't it? 00:36:30.099 --> 00:36:33.802 If that's the word that people are looking for and that they respond to. 00:36:34.291 --> 00:36:35.260 Yeah, they did, yeah. 00:36:35.293 --> 00:36:39.762 And I think fractional is quite clear, the interaction. 00:36:40.175 --> 00:36:43.070 They can have me for as many days as they want in a month. 00:36:43.572 --> 00:36:48.467 So it's quite clear within the title that that's what I do. 00:36:48.469 --> 00:36:50.813 So I'm not full-time, I'm not just theirs. 00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:55.418 I can do as much as long as they need me, really. 00:36:55.791 --> 00:36:57.275 Andre, it's been so good to talk to you. 00:36:57.275 --> 00:36:58.333 Thank you so much. 00:36:58.371 --> 00:36:59.601 Go to beingfreelance.com. 00:36:59.603 --> 00:37:05.757 There will be links through so we can find Andre online, both his website, go say hi on LinkedIn as well. 00:37:07.056 --> 00:37:08.664 That's something I didn't actually ask you, though. 00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:15.157 Do you do a lot on social media, or it feels like it's much more in person? 00:37:15.608 --> 00:37:16.454 Yes, you're right. 00:37:16.454 --> 00:37:16.682 Yeah. 00:37:16.711 --> 00:37:17.586 It is more in person. 00:37:18.824 --> 00:37:20.782 My social media is really horrible. 00:37:20.782 --> 00:37:24.471 I shouldn't say that, but I do more for my clients than for myself. 00:37:25.704 --> 00:37:26.463 That's interesting. 00:37:26.463 --> 00:37:29.833 Yeah, but it's, again, it's you paying attention to what works for you- Yeah… I guess. 00:37:29.902 --> 00:37:33.782 And what takes more effort from me and from my business. 00:37:33.797 --> 00:37:41.606 So for me to sit down and plan and strategize my LinkedIn, for example, takes me more effort than going to a network event and talking. 00:37:42.235 --> 00:37:45.106 It's just the way it works for me, I guess. 00:37:45.385 --> 00:37:48.563 But do you use LinkedIn to stay in touch with the people you might meet at the marketing event? 00:37:48.579 --> 00:37:49.456 100%, yeah. 00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:49.893 Build networking. 00:37:49.905 --> 00:37:50.204 Yeah. 00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:56.443 Because the magic is what happens after the network event, not so much on the day or the morning. 00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:58.655 It's how do you keep in touch with those people? 00:37:58.721 --> 00:38:01.887 So that's why I mainly use LinkedIn, for the messaging side. 00:38:02.382 --> 00:38:03.869 Anyway, listen, I've got to let you go. 00:38:04.494 --> 00:38:07.061 Andre, thank you so much. 00:38:07.074 --> 00:38:08.268 Real joy. 00:38:08.309 --> 00:38:11.784 We need to put another mini golf date in the diary, quite clearly. 00:38:11.784 --> 00:38:13.711 Let's do that in early 2027. 00:38:13.715 --> 00:38:16.648 But for now, thanks so much, and all the best being freelance. 00:38:16.713 --> 00:38:17.143 Brilliant. 00:38:17.202 --> 00:38:17.690 Thanks, Steve. 00:38:17.702 --> 00:38:18.516 Thank you for having me. 00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:19.085 It was a pleasure. 00:38:21.704 --> 00:38:22.163 That's it. 00:38:22.501 --> 00:38:23.306 How good is Andre? 00:38:23.367 --> 00:38:26.217 I knew you two would get on like a house on fire. 00:38:26.375 --> 00:38:27.119 Oh, I knew it. 00:38:27.121 --> 00:38:30.842 You should come join us in the Being Freelance Community and get to know him even better. 00:38:31.389 --> 00:38:37.239 That's where I'll be hanging out this week, as ever, as well as on Instagram@beingfreelance and on LinkedIn. 00:38:37.289 --> 00:38:38.833 Come connect with me there. 00:38:39.447 --> 00:38:41.918 Also, are you getting my freelancer emails? 00:38:42.027 --> 00:38:42.909 I'd love it if you did. 00:38:43.434 --> 00:38:49.833 Go to beingfreelance.com and put your email address in, and I'll be sending them your way in no time. 00:38:49.954 --> 00:38:52.047 Hey, if you don't like it, you can always unsubscribe. 00:38:52.222 --> 00:38:53.351 Like, don't tell me. 00:38:53.445 --> 00:38:54.253 I'll be injured. 00:38:54.344 --> 00:38:55.275 I don't check these things. 00:38:56.791 --> 00:38:58.278 It crushes me too much. 00:38:58.574 --> 00:39:01.246 All right, back with another one of these very soon indeed. 00:39:01.255 --> 00:39:04.333 You have a great week being freelance.