บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ #42 - How Physics Explains Traditional Chinese Medicine with Becky Rubright, AP

--> 00:02:17.840 I know. 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.560 So um where can I where shall we begin? 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:20.879 Yeah. 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:22.400 How did you guys meet? 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:23.520 Oh, how did we meet? 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.639 Uh we met through our mutual friends, Jill and Jeff. 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:27.120 Yes. 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:28.400 And I don't remember how you met them. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:29.680 I think something about USF. 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:30.240 Oh, yeah. 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.039 I met them at the bull market uh at USF. 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.759 They had a little uh weekly market on Wednesdays, and they were selling hemp clothes. 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:38.560 Of course they were. 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.639 And I I made a beeline straight for the people selling the hemp clothes. 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:43.280 Of course you did. 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:44.719 In my barking stacks. 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.479 In this desert, hippie desert you lived in. 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:49.680 Yeah, totally. 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:50.560 Totally. 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.360 And yeah, I got on their um email list. 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.199 Yeah, I got on their email list. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:56.240 They sent on an email. 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:05.759 They were gonna have a they were gonna have a hemp party at their house on uh Fern Street over there by um the school. 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:12.000 And I said, Hey mom, there's this, you know, this cool couple, they have a hemp, they're gonna have a hemp party. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:12.639 You want to go? 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:14.639 And she was like, I was living at home at the time. 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:16.319 She was like, Yeah, so we drive down there. 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:18.319 We're the only two people that show up. 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.639 So we're basically just hanging out with them. 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:21.120 Right, right. 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:37.439 Jeff played records, you know, it was made he made uh uh garlic, roasted garlic hummus, the chef that he is, and um yeah, and then I met um their friend Penny, your friend Penny. 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:45.439 And I remember we met, they had a party Christmas that year, and you and Penny had gone to the performing arts center. 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:49.840 Y'all were dressed up, you had just gone to the performing arts center for, I don't know, the nutcracker or something. 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:50.639 I don't remember. 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:55.280 And y'all came and we hung out and they had that singing bowl, and I was obsessed with that singing bowl. 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.560 And you were like, You've never had an acupuncture needle? 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:02.639 And on their couch, you gave me my first, you're like, it's fine, it's thinner than a hair. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:04.159 Like, here, give me your hand. 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:05.840 Boom, boom, boom. 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.960 And then voila, I had my first acupuncture treatment. 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:09.520 Very nice. 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:10.800 Does she cry like a baby? 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:11.520 I don't remember. 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:12.719 No, I only do that for you. 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:13.599 I know. 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:15.840 She does have much chat. 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:17.199 She does. 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.920 And I also worked at Becky's place for years. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.000 So if you saw me back in the early parts of my career. 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:26.720 And I lived at Becky's history. 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:28.160 Okay, so there's a long history. 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:30.000 There's a long history. 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:35.199 Exactly. 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:37.360 And also it's full transparency. 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.040 And here we sit in a house that you bought from Jeff and Joe. 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:41.920 Yeah, that's right. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:42.319 Yep. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:52.720 Pen Penny and Becky and I came to their house blessing after they bought this house, and I rolled up to this house, and I was like, dang, I want to get a house like that someday. 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:54.079 Literally, I had that thought. 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:57.920 And and now we are in the living room. 00:04:58.160 --> 00:04:58.959 It's always been a great house. 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:00.480 Where we did a house blessing right there. 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:02.560 Even when I pulled up, I was like, oh, this house. 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:03.279 Yeah. 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:03.680 Yeah. 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:04.800 It's a good house. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:05.279 It is. 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:05.680 Yeah. 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:06.800 It's cottage. 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:08.000 Totally. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:18.639 All right, but this podcast is not about our the riveting history of our friendship, although we could totally do a podcast on ours and synchronicities and all of that. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.199 Um I do feel like that's been a big part of it. 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:22.800 But we are here to talk about. 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:24.560 What are we here to talk about? 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.360 You want to give us like a basic introduction? 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:36.639 Sh well, I mean, this came about because I am going to Paris for the first time ever in uh just less than two weeks to talk at the Constructail Law Conference. 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.519 Um and so the Construct Law Conference. 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:49.199 Uh it's the 16th year of it, but the Constructable Law was articulated 30 years ago this year by a professor at Duke, Dr. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:54.240 Adrian Bijan, who actually escaped communist Romania and went to MIT. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:04.319 Actually, he escaped communist Romania through the basketball team and then uh then like went to MIT and

like has numbers named after him. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:05.519 Like this is a real scientist. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:06.480 Numbers. 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:07.040 Yes. 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.279 Like he's written so many books about thermodynamics. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:11.120 So he's he's a professor of thermodynamics. 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:11.680 Okay. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:17.199 Um which I suspect is part of why uh I mean, I don't know. 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:24.319 I wonder it's I wonder how many like scientific, you know, some scientific breakthroughs take a long time to become established and accepted. 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.839 And so 30 years isn't that long in that context. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:28.560 Got it. 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:39.199 But because he's not a physicist or if you know, that's not he doesn't come from that field, posture uh articulating a new law of physics is like they're like, yeah, sure. 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:45.680 But um it's because he comes from the world of thermodynamics, and so that's where oh that's why I got there. 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.000 He's written tons of books about thermodynamics. 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:53.040 He's incredibly um cited because that field is very specific. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.480 Um, how did you get involved? 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:01.120 So I feel like it was like you you stumbled across this idea. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:17.759 So, well, speaking about flow, so uh really quickly for your audience, I guess I'll say what the construct a law is, which and I'm gonna paraphrase, I think, uh, that the idea is that any system that persists through time must find greater and greater access for what flows within it or through it. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:19.120 Um my goodness. 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:24.879 And so it's a law because that's just stated simply, and obviously it can get complicated really quickly when you do the math. 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:31.120 Um I actually have this in here, if I may, read that. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.079 It took me a couple times to be like, okay, wait, what is this saying? 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:55.439 So you write in this paper that the constructural constructal law states for a finite size system to persist in time, meaning to live, its configuration must evolve in such a way that provides easier access to the currents that flow through it. 00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:07.839 And you later go on to say that this design this design features that design features morph and evolve to allow for greater access to its currents. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:08.480 Correct. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:09.279 Okay. 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:10.959 What does that mean? 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:28.319 You know, like well it's I mean, uh without getting into like the the math, because that's not what I do, but the the concept is part of it's why um it's really the first scientific reason we have for what people originally want to call intelligent design. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:51.600 Because it is because of the nature of physics, the things that flow, and this the the law um applies to uh animate and inanimate systems uh because both of those things have flow, but it's why um a river delta looks like a circulatory system, looks like a tree branching, looks like you know what I mean, like the whole fractal nature of the universe is that what you're doing. 00:08:51.840 --> 00:09:01.039 And not just that, but the the literal constraints of physics force things to flow in such a way that it finds the easiest path. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:11.120 And for the greater and like when you think about like a river delta, again, that is not a static thing, it's not a series of poured concrete canals. 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.200 It's constantly flowing to find the best way to flow. 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.000 And so it's that design is always evolving. 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.320 And the same is true with like so urban planning, right? 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:41.519 Those designs are always evolving, and yeah, ideally you're doing this with intentionality, and um but yeah, so it's so right, it's broadly applied, and that's kind of what's interesting with the conference because it started within the realm of thermodynamics, the those are the first people that adopted it. 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.519 And that's a very science-heavy field. 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:54.399 But as but because it is universal, more and more fields like the conference has grown every year as more and more fields are like, oh, you could look at my thing from this point of view. 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:55.039 Uh-huh. 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:59.519 And so now you've got people looking at like planning, but I mean there's still plenty of the thermodynamic stuff. 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.000 I'm taking all of Tuesday off the conference because I don't need any of that. 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:03.840 But yeah, shout out to your day. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.960 Well, like I don't need anything about like cooling chips and you know, real real thermodynamic engineering. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.919 I call that day for you, the Red Beret Day. 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:17.120 I actually already have an appointment to get my hair blown out the day before my presentation. 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:18.960 So nice. 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:19.279 Yeah. 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:27.039 But anyway, my point is is like people are there from economics and urban planning and education and even historical things. 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:33.759 Like at one of the one of the so in my presentation, uh, I talk about the three different ways to construct. 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:34.639 That blew my mind. 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:37.279 Well, and so historical development is one of them. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:38.159 You can look at anything. 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:49.279 Last year at the conference I went to, um, somebody presented a paper about the flow of the Jewish

diaspora as you know, and so right, so it it continues to grow. 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:51.519 So geo geographically. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:11:00.799 Well, and the forces that like also different constraints that force different things to flow in different ways, and there are consequences to that everywhere. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:01.759 Yeah. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.759 It's it's really interesting stuff. 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:10.320 So what was the moment when when you were like, holy shit, this is tr this is traditional Chinese medicine? 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.159 That's right how I first started about the flow thing. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:20.720 And yeah, and how traditional Chinese like how did you Well, so funny enough, and that is why I was like, speaking of flow, um I had had brain surgery. 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:21.759 That's right. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.639 So I was literally having a flow issue in my brain that was fixed with surgery. 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:34.559 And I was laying on my mom's, I spent a month at my mom's recovering, and I have tons of science books or science magazines, and I was reading one of them. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:39.039 I read a review for his book at the time, which was The Physics of Life that had just come out. 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.440 And um was like, oh my god. 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.519 I think I read an interview with him about the book. 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.440 And it was just like, oh my god, this is what I've been talking about, with you know, everything's connected with the flow. 00:11:47.519 --> 00:12:01.840 And for to me, because this is the first real Western science to hang what we do on, what you can hang Chinese medicine on, um, but but only partly because obviously it's about flow. 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.480 Like there's no question this is a parallel thing. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:25.039 Uh and at the time I got really excited about, and this part I'll just really briefly because you know some of the story, but I got super excited about this idea after my brain surgery because when we talked about like re-establishing flow, I was just like brimming with like ideas and excitement after having been very suppressed for a couple of years through creativity. 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:26.240 I remember that time. 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:27.519 That was terrible. 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:37.120 Um but and then also in the process of like getting deeper into the idea of like I was like, I'm gonna write a book and I'm gonna do all this thing. 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:43.519 And um, but then realized like, oh no, I need to really actually get more of my body. 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:45.120 I've been in my head long enough. 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:47.279 I do not need to be more in my head right now. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:49.759 Let's get, you know, we'll put this aside. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.279 Even though I had reached out to Dr. 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:59.519 Bajan and like we had

had, I'd even gone up to do to spend a day with him talking about his ideas, and he was very encouraging to he should write and all this sort of stuff. 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:06.399 Um so when I decided not to do it, I not to write the book not write the book. 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:12.399 I kind of had that moment of like, is this gonna nag my, like nag me in the back of my head why I should like should I should do this? 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:14.320 There's there's some flow that needs to happen. 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:16.639 At the time I was like, no, I'm I'm okay with that. 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:18.159 That's fine, like I'll let it go. 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:26.000 But nevertheless, I had left a little inbox in my uh email that had that was called Book Stuff where all of the exchanges I had had with Dr. 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:42.000 Bichan were um and so this passed set like a year ago in September when I got back from Belize after deciding I was gonna move there, I got into real declutter mode and was like going through everything and that included my inbox. 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.159 And so I opened this this file and I'm looking through these emails. 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:52.240 And um back in 2018, he had sent me this link to the conference at the time, but it was in Boogrest. 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:54.080 So I was like, I'm not going to that. 00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:00.879 But I clicked on it last September to just piped and like, oh, you know, am I gonna do anything with this anymore? 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.919 Should I look at this? 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:05.840 And the link to the cop was like, What where's the conference this year? 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.360 I clicked on the link, and it was in Miami in like a month. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:10.639 Right, yes. 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.799 Like, oh shit, obviously I'm supposed to go to that talking about synchronicities. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:15.279 Uh-huh. 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:22.639 So I go and just as a private citizen, even filling out the registration form was funny because they're like, What who are you with? 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:23.840 I'm like, me. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.039 And um and just went and listened. 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.600 But that's where um Dr. 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.840 Miller introduced the biogenic principle for the very first time. 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:43.919 And that made me feel like without this piece, like the last 10 years were not for nothing. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.080 I couldn't have done this without this piece. 00:14:46.799 --> 00:15:00.879 Because before this, the construct a law, while and uh in my paper and in my presentation, it's always it conforms to or it adheres to or it reflects because it's all a metaphor and analogy because we don't know how to measure qi yet. 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.559 But just because you don't know how to measure qi doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.360 Do you think qi and flow are synonymous in this model? 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.639 Uh yes. 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.879 Uh in this model, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing either one of them are. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.879 So then do you think do you think that you had a flow established that was associated with the the energy of this paper, for example? 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.279 Like if we were to just sort of like analyze that. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:23.679 Yeah. 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:24.000 Sure. 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:25.360 Oh, interesting, yeah. 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.759 The energy of the paper that was within you. 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:29.840 This is part of why I'm here. 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:30.399 Right. 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:30.879 Yes. 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:31.919 Like what is it? 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:32.320 Yes. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:38.639 Yeah, and how and how then somehow you get this idea just to clean out your inbox. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.879 It's like the flow didn't stop, right? 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.039 So it reminds me of the thing. 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.799 Well, and actually to me, it's more like dormant, because it wasn't like pushing at me. 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:53.759 It was just waiting for that moment to Well, and like if the inbox is full, then you wouldn't you might not have seen the thing. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.159 So it's like you had to clear out the inbox to see that. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:58.159 I know. 00:15:58.399 --> 00:15:59.279 I'm talking about myself. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:00.080 Yes, yes, yes. 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:05.120 I'm I'm giving myself a pep talk to clean out my inbox, which I literally put on my list this morning. 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.720 But just as a as a like, it's like things were cleared out. 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.360 I feel like sometimes when we clearly, yeah. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:19.279 Yeah, it's it's kind of like uh what we've been doing in the house with moving sh the great stuff shuffle, as I call it. 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:29.600 But I guess what I was wondering is is it possible that the energy, like let's just say the energy of the paper, the qi of the paper, was lying dormant, gathering strength. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:30.320 Absolutely. 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:31.679 Like, you know what I mean? 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:33.440 Yeah, yeah, building totally. 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.039 I mean, it's just it's just an obvious way my brain thinks, right? 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:45.919 Like kind of like like um when I was in TCM school, um, my teachers were all from China, and they'd love to use the word carbuncle. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:46.720 Carbuncle. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.039 Carbuncle instead of pimple or whatever. 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.639 They use the word carbuncle. 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.039 And so it makes it sound much harder. 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:54.000 It does. 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:55.919 It's not just

a zit, right, right. 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.440 It's a carbuncle. 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:04.079 But anyway, you know that whole process where like that is blocked, and then the body creates this pressure behind it. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.640 Or like if you have a splinter and it's blocked, you know. 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.920 I've had a splinter in the bottom of my foot, it my my body will push it out. 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:11.920 It can literally create material to push it out. 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:12.319 Sure. 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:17.519 I mean, when I eat things that upset my stomach, I have mechanism. 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:18.880 Nothing is not flow. 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:19.599 Everything is flowing. 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:20.400 Everything is flow. 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:25.759 So it's like, you know, when you have uh upside-down qi, you you qi qi reversed and you vomit, right? 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:26.000 Right. 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:31.519 That is because your qi's supposed to go down, but there's something that's blocking that, that's poison or the Rebellious chi. 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:32.559 Rebellious qi. 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:32.799 Yeah. 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:33.039 Yeah. 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.680 Your chi's like, fuck you, I'm coming out of your nose now. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:41.279 Well, but it's actually not even so much fuck you, it's that something has disrupted the popper way of that chi's flow. 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.640 And so it's like, mm-hmm, I'm building up. 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.160 More like fuck this. 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.480 It's like fuck this, I'm going out the other way. 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.839 I don't know if it's choice. 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.880 I have to move somewhere. 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:55.680 So maybe it's not personal, which is which is a which is a really interesting sort of statement immediately about like. 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:58.640 Don't take your chi personally. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.039 Well, right, about like not self and how it ends up. 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:05.039 Well Yeah. 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:05.680 Yeah. 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:07.839 So then so then the pressure builds up. 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:14.480 You look in the inbox, and then and then it the and then it's in Miami. 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:15.279 Right, right. 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.559 And so the the energy's like, that's where we're going. 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.079 Just it's all flowing together. 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:34.559 As long as I keep listening and sh to what shows up, then so that synchronicity then is uh is a is an exp is a is a moment where the the energy of the flow is manifest in the physical world. 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.079 Yeah, but it also takes you have to be receptive to it too. 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:38.559 Yeah. 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:39.680 It's only meaningful to you. 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.119 It wouldn't have been meaningful to somebody

else. 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:41.759 It would have been. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.599 Well not only that, but I also had to respond to it. 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:43.920 Yeah. 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.079 Like I could have been like, eh, I can I don't have time. 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.279 Is that part of that two-way thing that you talk about on the bio? 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:55.920 Well, so this is what's fun about this idea to me is that especially in Dr. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.720 Miller's The Biogeneric Principle, this is strongly scientific. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.519 Like there is this is not a metaphor in any way, shape, or form. 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:07.279 But it certainly could be the way we can make this a metaphor across the board, sure. 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:20.000 Well, this is why this really fits with the series that we're doing currently with the body, where we're talking about different parts of the body and you know, certain certainly physical parts of those, but then also the metaphor symp symbolic parts of them. 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:20.720 Sure. 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:26.559 Um so just to just to like circle back and make sure our listeners are are following along. 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:31.279 We've got these two it from what I can tell, it's like first you have two ideas, yes. 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.519 Yeah, the constructal law, and you're like, huh. 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:34.319 This is a big idea. 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.960 This sounds really similar to Chinese medicine. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:46.240 And also um we're still in a phase with Chinese medicine in the West where like we're trying to figure out how it works. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.960 Well, I mean if you're trying to look yes, I'll just say it's a good idea. 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:56.640 And there are some you point out some problems where where not not problems, but it's like it the science hasn't been doing that quite yet, and this is a way that that we can. 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:59.839 I mean so it has its own explanation in its own framework. 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:00.319 Yes. 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:05.920 But everybody from a Western scientist's point of view, whether you're in China or here, doesn't know how it works yet. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:06.319 Right. 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:06.559 Yeah. 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:11.519 So we've got the constructal law, and then we've got this biogenic principle that we'll talk about in a minute. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:21.279 I want to circle back to a question that I had about the constructal law, which is this idea of flow. 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:22.559 Where is it in my notes? 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.480 Okay, so this relationship. 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:31.759 So the constructal law works both physiologically, like these things in the body that are creating flow. 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:46.480 But then you also have this part in here about there's emotional and intellectual flows, um, flows that what we're expressing or trying to suppress, which relates to a lot of the things we talked about in episode 39, I think it was, about trauma in the body. 00:20:47.119 --> 00:21:02.480 But it this idea of also uh you say fittingly, we are most fulfilled when our energy flow when our energy flows are directed towards meaningful personal connections, expressing our creativity and giving back to the world around us. 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.480 You just cited Becky to Becky. 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.440 Oh, yeah, that's my plan. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:12.079 But but what what I want to kind of I'm getting here to find the person you actually cited. 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:13.359 Oh, it's number two. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.480 It's number three. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:15.440 Number three, okay. 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.359 Um, that's not a quote of something you wrote, it's a quote from somebody else that you that was in the paper. 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:19.599 I see. 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:20.160 Yeah, I see. 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:27.279 It's number three who is uh that comes from and actually I met Kim Kingsley last year at the conference in Miami. 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:29.519 We'll um include is this a book? 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.279 Yeah, it's the energy wellness blueprint. 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:32.240 We'll include that in the show. 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:44.640 That's a fantastic book, especially because you're right, it's using the idea of the construct law, construct a law and flow, and she's actually a psychologist, so she's gonna she speaks to it far better than I could in a way that's like you coherent. 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:46.000 What's the name of that book again? 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.839 Uh Energy Wellness Blueprint. 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.440 So what this reminded me of Kimberly Kingsley. 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:52.000 Nice. 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:59.759 What this reminded me of is this quote I just heard recently from Maya Angelou, who says that you can't use up creativity. 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.480 The more you use it, the more you have. 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.000 Hell yeah, that makes sense to me. 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:04.319 Sure. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.079 And that's just that relate. 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:06.880 Yeah. 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.079 And so I don't know. 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.720 I find that just so compelling. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:16.559 Well, it's like if if there's flow there and you make more space for flow, then then more comes in. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:17.920 Then then more flows. 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.079 Well, and honestly, this part of the the It's like self-generating. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:32.480 I mean, to me, it's it's very obvious how there are physical systems in your body that flow that need to be flowing constantly to make sure you're alive, your heart, your limbs, everything. 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:33.519 Yeah, peeing. 00:22:33.839 -->

00:22:36.160 But that 100%. 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:43.839 Uh and so right, and an example of how this also applies to our psychology and our emotions and everything. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.680 Yeah, that's everything is flow. 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:47.359 So that applies there too. 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:54.240 So here you got a law of physics, this new law of physics that's affirming what you already know through Chinese medicine. 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:55.119 Correct, yeah. 00:22:55.359 --> 00:23:02.720 You see a problem that we're that the Western world is trying to um we don't know, yes, prove solve, figure out. 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:03.759 Yeah, yeah. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.079 Well, I mean, that's the nature of scientific inquiry. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.759 What is the nature, like what is the truth, and how does this actually work? 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:25.839 And so even though I come from a science background, like as a family, I wasn't raised with religion or anything, the philosophy of Chinese medicine is extremely compelling in terms of the nature of biological or nature of well, nature, period. 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:27.920 So the nature of nature. 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:28.559 Well, right. 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.839 I mean it I mean if you know anything about Taoism, it is it is awesome. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.000 I was gonna say that just sounds like Taoism. 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.160 Actually, I wrote that the one the the one becomes two, becomes the many. 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.240 So somewhere in the sun here. 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.920 I was like, oh, that's a one becomes the two, becomes the three, becomes the ten thousand things. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:44.640 Something like that. 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:46.319 Somewhere I wrote that in here. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:47.200 I forget where. 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:56.960 It's like one thing I think just to summarize this in a way for for myself, is that what I'm picking up is that it's like ancient Chinese medicine observes something very accurately. 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:57.759 Correct. 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.640 But we don't have the modern vocabulary. 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.279 Correct. 00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:03.920 Yeah, no, I mean it's it's for explaining it. 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:11.279 They're the how close they got to reality is incredibly impressive, especially using. 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:15.839 What do you mean who's they ancient Chinese scholars? 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:17.519 I mean, it's it's fascinating too. 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:30.640 The the the origins of Chinese medicine are all really murky, like in terms of how like yin yang really emerges out of like primitive clan culture philosophy. 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:34.079 It is very nature-based and phenomenology-based. 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:39.359 Like there's no gods, you're just watching how things flow and evolve or un evolve. 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.079 You're just observing, yeah, noticing. 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.799 And so there's no uh like judgment or whatever else that would go along with it. 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.160 It's really just observational. 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:50.480 Yeah. 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.559 And I forget where was going on with that. 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.759 Uh in terms of like what things really are. 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:02.240 Right. 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:07.920 Well, I think there's this this difference between experimental science and experiential science. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:13.359 And it's like the experiential sciences of basically Asia, right? 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:20.880 And so it's like what people in in China were realizing, what what was being realized in India is kind of simultaneously. 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.440 These yogis were hanging out, right? 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.680 Paying a lot paying very close attention to their body, to the nature of reality. 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.880 And they were paying attention to the nature of reality because they wanted to be closer to reality. 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.319 They wanted to understand the truth. 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:34.640 Right. 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.759 For their own really for their yeah, for their own spiritual reasons. 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:44.640 And then it's so cool to me how ethics get involved in Confucianism and the culture gets involved. 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:52.640 It's like you talk about the flow in the beginnings of it, there's this kind of shamanistic, we're observing the energy, the dragon, you know, right. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:58.319 I mean, the first when I mentioned like the historical development, the first like archaeological stuff are like markings on tortoise shelves. 00:25:58.880 --> 00:25:59.519 You know, yeah. 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.440 So yeah, it's it's so cool. 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:08.240 And then how, as civilizations are growing, and I mean China's like the it's amazing to me when I look back at the history. 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.920 I mean, China had had a booming restaurant culture six thousand years ago. 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:12.160 Right. 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.480 It's like there's so much history from the east. 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:28.160 And I think that this is, I mean, just on an off topic in terms of flow, it's like all that information's been sitting over there, and then the internet arrives, and it's like, sorry, that's probably gonna sound terrible on the thing. 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.519 But you know what I mean? 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:36.000 It's like the internet arrives, and now it's like the the democratization of this information from the other, you know, from the east. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:37.039 We're really getting a lot of things. 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.480 I mean, I went to school with kids wearing a yin-yang symbol on their shirt. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:41.440 It's like a fire hose. 00:26:41.759

--> 00:26:43.599 They'll have a tattooed on their bodies all over the place. 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:44.799 It's like a fire hose now. 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:49.519 I mean, we it's it's like yeah, yeah, it's it's it's like it it's coming. 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.799 Yeah, no, you're right. 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.000 Yeah, and is that is that part of this constructor law? 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.480 Is that dissemination of information? 00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.839 Um again, you can look at that's the crazy thing about it. 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.440 You can look at anything through this lens. 00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:02.160 Amazing. 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:05.440 And and you know, without forcing it even. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:16.000 What has what has spending time thinking about this lens and looking at things through this lens taught you about your own life? 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.839 That's a great question. 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:25.440 I'm just thinking about what it what it w how has your experience of your own life shifted or changed? 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:41.440 I mean, not dramatically, but in the sense that it does feel very um validating in a way that I mean I've always been interested in these really esoteric topics and like just for my own interest. 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.240 Totally. 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:50.480 And yet at the same time, I don't know anybody else that I interact with socially that reads anywhere near as much science as I do either. 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:50.880 Right. 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:57.200 And so you smart if that's just it's just well, it's just an intersection of my two favorite topics. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:57.839 Totally. 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:05.920 And so it it's like, oh, okay, well, that makes more sense why I've been because this also does feel like this is what I've partly here to do. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.039 Like as far as I can tell on the internet, I might be the first person who's ever put acupuncture in the constructor law together. 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.599 And that that's that and that Which is crazy. 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:17.839 Is yeah, that just to be clear on like what you're doing with this paper in this presentation. 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.640 You're you're not like, oh, here I have proved acupuncture. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.440 It's more of like, here's I have an idea about how maybe we could. 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:24.880 Yeah, guess what, guys? 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.119 Here's uh somebody else, uh, step in. 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:28.880 I did the legwork for you. 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.279 But look, these things are connected. 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:42.240 Well, and actually in my presentation at one point when I would talk about the um so in the constructor law, and I encourage anybody who's really interested to read more about it because I am not the best ambassador for the real science of it. 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:42.880 Sure. 00:28:43.039

--> 00:28:44.960 Um, the math and all that beyond me. 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.720 Yeah, I'm just told like how our thermo how does this relate to thermodynamics? 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:54.240 I mean, if you're able to give Well, thermodynamics is really just environmental flux, like hot and cold. 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:55.200 Oh. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.960 And the different forces that are at work in our pl in our lives. 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:01.279 Okay. 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:10.160 So when I say thermodynamics, the engineering a lot of that has come from like trying to figure out how to make things that get too hot cooler. 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:10.880 Uh-huh. 00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:11.279 Right. 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:13.119 How to cool a car engine. 00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:13.519 Right. 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:14.480 Or a computer chip. 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:17.440 Or like, or like when you're in a data center. 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:19.279 You can't put all that in the pan. 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.240 You're crowding the pan, it's everything's not gonna cook evenly. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.240 I mean, I'm assuming that's thermodynamics. 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:24.640 Sure. 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.200 Don't crowd the pan. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.519 Especially the cast iron. 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:30.559 Oh, I believe that. 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:32.240 I'm not fucking with that at all. 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.759 You want something nice and brown. 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.240 Don't crowd the pan. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:43.680 So I'm now thinking that would that would restrict the flow. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.079 And once you show it, I start to think about it. 00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:48.000 It's everywhere for sure. 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:48.480 Yeah. 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.119 Like everything is about like, is it flowing properly? 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.759 Is it but it's also, I mean, there's so many layers of it. 00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:55.920 Like, you know, whether it's timing too. 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.319 Like, I didn't feel any pressure building in my inbox or that that folder on my inbox. 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:01.599 This is where I think it comes together. 00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:03.119 I have pressure building in my inbox. 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:04.480 I'm at 90% capacity. 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.319 I mean, Gmail tells me every day. 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:11.680 Pressure building in my inbox is a really interesting euphemism for all types of things. 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:26.480 I mean, I I think that um it's like uh last year I had a root canal. 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:27.839 Oh, yeah. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:28.480 Okay. 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:28.799 Yeah. 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.079 And I mean, like this infection must have been brewing. 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.240 It was for a long time than before I felt it. 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.039 And then when I first felt it, I was like, it's gotta be

this new mouth guard. 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:43.119 It can't possibly be the tooth itself. 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.279 I mean, I I I misattributed it. 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.519 In the meantime, the pressure continues to build. 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:59.279 So that by the time I get in to the endodontist and he and he's in there with the drill, he's going, zzz, zzz, and then he goes, zzz, and then he goes, Oh my god. 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.400 Just an abscess or something. 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:03.680 Huge abscess. 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.240 And then we got you got in on a pride. 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.680 He was like, You would not have lost it. 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:09.920 He's like, you would have ended up in the ER. 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:11.119 I could have been skeptic. 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:11.599 Yeah. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:12.960 But I wouldn't have known it. 00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:22.000 So I mean, it's so interesting how pressure can be felt but not known, or known but not felt, how it's in the unconscious. 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:22.559 Cool. 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:29.440 And the whole thing about the unconscious in general and flow, that's kind of where I was going with this whole thing about the synchronicity. 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:30.079 Oh, okay. 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:45.279 And how the synchronic like it kind of just this this works with Jungian theory in a way, because he talked about like synchronicity as this moment where the psychoid level, which is the unconscious, like breaks into our current consciousness in a way that is only meaningful for us. 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.359 Like that's what he said a synchronicity is. 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:47.759 Sure. 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:48.160 Right? 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:49.680 Where two things come together that don't. 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.640 Yeah, you turn on the radio and it's the song. 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:53.039 Right. 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.240 And that song may not be a good idea. 00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.240 And synchronicity obviously have to be personal. 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:56.640 Yes. 00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:56.799 Right. 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.960 So technically, you going into your inbox wasn't so much as the synchronicity as it was a resonance. 00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:03.759 Sure. 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:12.559 And so there's something about resonance and flow and synchronicity and the unconscious mind that all kind of go together. 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:17.200 And I would not recommend an abscess tooth to learn that lesson. 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:22.640 Well, so I mean that makes me think about again, all right, so we're also getting to the biogenic principle part of it. 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:23.279 Yeah, yeah. 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:31.200 Because that, I mean, the the construct a law as a metaphor and an analogy that you can see all over the place is very simple. 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.039 Flow, is it flowing or not? 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.160 It blocks, like that you can find that everywhere. 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:44.960 The biogenic principle, so it is it's it's it's interesting to me because it's stated the way he states it, Dr. 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:51.680 Miller, uh, is that there is no such thing in biological systems, there's no such thing as a unilateral flow of information. 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.680 What would be an example of a unilateral flow? 00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:58.400 It just goes one way, and it just goes one way, right. 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.200 And I actually asked him, I was like, what do you why is it phrased like this? 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.880 And I suspected, and I was right. 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:22.799 Uh that the answer is that it's a counterargument to the current state of evolution dogma about evolution, which is that our DNA and RNA are one-way uh uh uh uh flows of information from uh gene to expression that only change over long periods of time through random mutation. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.960 Yes, that is the that is the current and that's never really made any sense. 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:28.480 Like, why would it be random mutation? 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.160 That's never made any sense to me. 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:36.640 Instead, uh incognitive so the idea is that the cell is the basis of cognition. 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.960 And and I do say in my presentation that like information theory is beyond the scope of my presentation. 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.920 It's actually beyond the scope of me talking about it right now either. 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:46.240 Right. 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.440 Uh I hope anybody who is really interested, um, Dr. 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:57.759 Miller's book is cognition-based evolution, and it's uh incredibly layman-friendly if you at least have a passing understanding of some science literature kind of thing. 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:09.199 Um and it does a really good job of explaining why the cell becomes the first basis of cognition, and it's all about the ambiguity of information. 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:15.199 A cell has to assess the information it gets, uh-huh, decide if it's worthwhile or not. 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.480 So you have to differentiate between noise and valuable information. 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:24.239 And then you have to make choices, you have to evaluate those choices and continuously, forever. 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:32.159 And then you responding to those choices is part of the the evolution of your design. 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.559 You are literally making yourself as you go. 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:44.000 And so if that works on us, so this argument and all the science again has been done about I mean it's a theory still, but it makes a lot of sense to me. 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:52.880 Um it starts with the cell, but uh then you could take it metaphorically, in my opinion. 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:57.280 Like this still works as a

metaphor, it goes all the way up to like, or not even it doesn't even have to be a metaphor. 00:34:57.519 --> 00:34:58.639 I need to learn a lot more about it. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.519 It sounds like that sounds like the nervous system. 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:07.199 You know, the nervous system is continuously taking in a bunch of information from the environment. 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.480 Where you know it it's deciding or something is deciding what to bring into my consciousness. 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.880 Well, and so the argument is that a cell is where this starts because once it makes this information, then it has to create a memory about it. 00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:24.320 And all of this information is self-generated, even in a cell. 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:32.880 And so you are forming, so even the cell is forming its own definition of reality based on the experience it's having, and then building upon that. 00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:37.679 Its own self-referential, constantly reciprocating experience. 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.079 They're such narcissists, aren't they? 00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:50.000 Well, it only gets worse from there as it gets and so multicellularity then occurs as you are trying to maximize the flow of information. 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:50.639 So that's right. 00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:59.920 In the biogenic principle, this idea of dual flows in the constructive law, you have everything is subject to the constraints of physical the physics. 00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.320 Like you throw the in the environment, everybody you're forced by nature. 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:04.960 Yes. 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:17.199 For a biological system, you have to manage the dual flows of both the thermodynamic flux of the environment and biology, but also the cellular need to maximize the flow of information. 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:25.599 So the cell always needs more information, and then it needs to check that information, and multicellularity then occurs as we're like, hey, what's your information? 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:26.719 And then you start getting together. 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:27.920 Cells get smarter. 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:34.480 Cells get smarter and build networks to get more accurate information, and then that just builds from there. 00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:36.960 So maybe that's what acupuncture channels are. 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.760 Well, so think about the meridians of G. 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:42.239 Well, not just that, but so it's two different things. 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:49.840 I think um, I mean, I don't know if you saw a bunch of people sent me this article that the uh research just came out this past summer about the interstitium. 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.239 Yes. 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:51.679 And oh let's talk about that. 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.400 Yeah, my phone blew up. 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:53.199 Blew up. 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:54.400 See, this is why what you do are. 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:55.280 And we're all like, yeah, we know. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:56.320 I was like, you might know. 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:03.920 But between that and the fascia, I I think it's just because it's not easily monetized, is why these things aren't getting more attention. 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:11.199 But the fascia and the interstitium seem like very obvious avenues for physical substrates of the acupuncture meridians. 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:16.719 They seem like analog analogous systems overlapping, and we're just calling them different things. 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:25.199 Whereas then the biogenic principle offers you a conceptual framework for the informational processes that create acupuncture's biomechanical effects. 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.000 Do you know what I mean? 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:34.239 So these are two separate things, but together might actually finally offer a big picture explanation of Chinese medicine, which is what we don't have. 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.400 So I talk about this in the paper. 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:54.000 We have, you know, acupuncture research mostly falls into two categories either finding out if it helps a particular issue, of which there are mountains of evidence for whatever you want to look for, or how it what what kind of biomechanical effects happen from receiving acupuncture, which are all downstream. 00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:55.679 That's what happens after. 00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:25.280 And uh actually uh this just this past year, recently, very recently, um a group of research universities in China suggested making acupuncture biomechanics its own interdisciplinary field so you can start to systematically clarify the how acupuncture-induced biomechanical stimuli propagate through tissues and then the distinct cell populations that mechano-transduce those signals. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:40.000 So, in other words, how can putting a needle in somebody's toe web between their big toe and second toe, for example, right, help them with a headache when that part is very far away from their head. 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:41.760 And as of right now, we cannot tell you. 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:43.599 That's exactly what you're talking about. 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.760 Yeah, is that that it would that would answer that question? 00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:47.039 Well, that's the other one. 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:47.840 It could, it could, yeah. 00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:55.840 It could, it could explain how those cells in the toe are intelligent about pain in the head. 00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:56.320 Yes. 00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:56.800 Wow. 00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:07.599 And it has to do with the the generative flow and the way that the flow of energy within the body has created that body that you're that is currently laying on the table. 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:14.480 And so then what you talk about next, and I'm just trying to paraphrase you in a very simple way, because I I I think it's really cool.

00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.800 I mean, it's a very, very cool way of thinking about it. 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:17.519 I'm digging it. 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.800 So then in that way, then you talk in the paper about the needle becoming like an in an an inf information. 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:24.719 It's a form of information, yeah. 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:31.760 In the same way the body knows how to do something with that we don't understand why or how it knows how to do that. 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:32.000 Right. 00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:37.679 Is it but we don't know what it interprets that as, but it interprets it somehow, and then effects happen. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.079 Right, and that was and there are different kinds of biomechanical effects all over the place. 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.199 Right, which was discovered experientially, if I if I remember correctly. 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.679 It's like started with acupressure, and then there are these early. 00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:49.840 There are these early stone needles. 00:39:49.920 --> 00:40:02.239 I mean, I remember seeing series where you know these early stone, you know, kind of like pressurized and truthfully, we don't really know how all these things like we like it could be experience, it could be somebody went deep in a meditated trance and saw that sort of realized who knows. 00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:05.360 Also, it's probably built up over thousands of years. 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:11.920 Like I mean, we have like the So that's a collection of information and the it's like the biogenic effect. 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.039 I mean, I know that's there's that metaphor part of it. 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:16.559 Yeah, you know, yeah. 00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:16.880 Right. 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:19.920 The subtle the subtle body is what this is the metaphor. 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.039 And that's been explained. 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:25.360 Well, I was thinking more historic that the the history can be also be a metaphor. 00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:38.079 This is the biogenic principle is a metaphor for the history of the development of acupuncture in the same way that you're talking about the constructional law shows these geographic um developments of movements. 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:38.880 I mean, I don't know. 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.880 I don't know, but it's like I just keep thinking of like layers of metaphors in the entire thing. 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.639 The thing that's interesting about the information idea, and again, that's why I'm like, I am not an expert. 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.159 I can tell that just by doing like I a year ago, this paper was not even an idea. 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:54.000 So like I'm gonna be learning about all these things for the foreseeable future. 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:54.480 Yeah. 00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:05.760 Um but the the idea that so the cell's genome, which is like basically this its surface external apparatus for assessing its

immediate environment. 00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.400 That creates it's is that like a part of the cell wall? 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:13.599 Yeah, like literally it's all the stuff on the outside that's like doing all the cell or whatever. 00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.679 I mean, there's all kinds of proteins and whatnot doing all sorts of stuff out there. 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:18.239 Right. 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.760 And deciding what it wants to accept or not, or whatever it's gonna do. 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:35.119 And so the genome is what he's I mean, these are all theoretical ideas, but he's called it the genome, is that external apparatus that creates what he's calling the pervasive information field around the cell. 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:39.440 But then that overlaps with other cells' pervasive information field. 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:50.960 And what you have is this aggregate system for communication and exchange that gets larger and larger, and then again, theoretically, that becomes an organism-wide epicenome. 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:56.000 And then there's nothing to say that energetically this doesn't then overlap with yours. 00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:56.480 Uh-huh. 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:00.480 And before you go, where does it stop? 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:01.199 It doesn't, right? 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:01.920 The ten thousand things. 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:02.800 The ten thousand things. 00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:04.719 One becomes the two, the two becomes the three. 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:04.880 Yeah. 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:07.199 That's exactly it. 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:08.320 As I was listening to your own. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.519 And so it could even become like a scientific explanation for like psychic phenomena, technically. 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:13.840 Yeah. 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:28.159 Well, and that's what I was kind of thinking because you'd also have to you also have to be a vessel that's receptive to the information that's around you. 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:31.679 Well, that goes back to my interest in creativity. 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:32.239 Sure. 00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:32.800 Also. 00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:33.280 Right. 00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:38.239 If you're an opening, you know, to be an open an open vessel so that that that can flow. 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.480 And it has the ability and time and space and the privilege and all that kind of stuff. 00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:43.599 Totally. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:43.920 Yeah. 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:44.800 Totally. 00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:45.440 Mm-hmm. 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:46.079 Mm-hmm. 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.679 I know a lot of I mean, I know we've been talking about Jung a little bit. 00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:54.239 I just was remembering something, and then some some I have a copy of Jung's Red Book on in my office. 00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:02.079 It's the the first edition one, and it has all these amazing pieces of art that he did, and his handwritten calligraphy, and this was his confrontation with the unconscious. 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:03.599 It's a very, very cool book, you know. 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:09.119 And it's all of this amazing work that he did in the body of, you know, just in a couple years when he was in his mid-30s. 00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:10.960 It's incredible how prolific he was. 00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:14.559 And a client of mine recently said, you know, where did he find the time? 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.400 And I said, Yeah, his wife was the second richest woman in Switzerland. 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:18.800 That's why. 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:20.159 He did not wash his clothes. 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:20.960 He didn't know. 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:21.760 He didn't wash his clothes. 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:22.639 He didn't do his dishes. 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:23.519 He wasn't. 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.559 Never did he make a meal. 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:25.920 Boil an egg. 00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:26.719 I don't think so. 00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.760 I'm I I know he did like to go to Bollingen and cook his own food. 00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:34.000 He chop his own wood and make his own eggs and he was doing that's it. 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.199 He was doing it on purpose. 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.599 And so it's an experience, not a necessity. 00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:40.239 So he's for fun. 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.039 Back to back to your whole thing about having the time, the energy, and the privilege to engage in creativity. 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:45.360 Yeah. 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.679 I mean, it it's like it is a thing. 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:56.079 When I look at the program for this conference coming up, everybody on this program is like from a university or an institute or whatever. 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.760 And I'm just sometimes extra time in my own little office to. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.719 But that's I mean, but that's how actually that's how a lot of artists happen. 00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:04.480 They're just somebody like who's like, I've got an idea. 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.760 You're totally Matt Damon and Goodwill hunting in the M. 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:12.559 not go that far, but again, as long as you don't give me any map. 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.840 You're sneaking in there solving the equations. 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:28.320 Well, it is surprising to me that nobody, especially in China, has I mean, again, I it just it more than anything, it speaks to me about the fact that like scientific ideas take time to spread. 00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:33.360 And especially if they're not monetizable, even harder harder. 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:34.079 Well, that's it. 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:35.119 They're busy building robots. 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.719 Well, and listen, no, I mean figuring out why Chinese medicine doesn't work. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:39.920 In China, they're just like, we know it works. 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:40.639 So it's freer?

00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:41.039 Who gets it? 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:42.000 We know it works. 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.280 They don't have to figure it out. 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.559 Although they are doing a lot of actual research there for sure. 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:47.280 Yeah. 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:47.920 Yeah. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:53.119 And I wouldn't even be know how to begin to suggest a study for what I've suggested. 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:54.000 I have a feeling. 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:56.159 No, but I think I have a feeling someone will. 00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:58.559 Yeah, I think that's all I'm doing. 00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:10.400 You're building this from other papers, but I'm thinking about this in terms of and I don't want to necessarily go on an AI tangent, but it's like I I do the more that AI is in our lives. 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.159 The more that AI is in our lives, the more the AI is in my lives. 00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:15.440 I'm thinking about it. 00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.239 Um and it's like there are there there are pluses. 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.480 I have found pluses with AI. 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.920 But also we need freaking humans thinking about things. 00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:31.440 Like I mean, personally, I want AI to be my Star Trek computer, that I just go computer, and otherwise it can shut off. 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:33.199 Yeah, I mean, Earl Grey Hot. 00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:34.239 Like that would be really nice. 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:35.519 Why do we not have that now? 00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:36.960 Well, that's a whole problem. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.480 We need some thermodynamics to be able to figure that out. 00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:48.400 Well, but I mean, this comes the I mean, what you're talking about is you know constraint the law. 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:50.079 Constraint is part of it constraint is the law. 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:53.280 Just to bring it back to construct a law. 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.519 You had no constraints, you'd just be a blob. 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:56.159 Right. 00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:57.519 Chicken farm. 00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.599 That relates to creativity for me too. 00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:02.239 Do you know what type of chicken farm? 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:02.880 That character. 00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:04.559 I love that. 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.280 I love that cartoon. 00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:07.599 I love it. 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.079 All these like spluted out chickens, you know. 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:12.320 They are not experiencing any stress, no. 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:13.599 Well, they are. 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.880 Actually, there's lots of inflammation happening, probably. 00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.599 But I mean, things will constrain AI. 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.320 I mean, it might be that the entire planet blows up and that's the end of it. 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:24.800 But I mean, if we pull the plug, it'll restrain AI. 00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:26.320 We could constrain AI ourselves. 00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:27.760 We'll just choose to do that. 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:31.119 If you well, if will the constructal law come into place here? 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:32.159 Yeah. 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:33.280 What we're what was she saying? 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:33.519 Yeah. 00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.159 If you apply, then it will be constrained. 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:37.760 Not necessarily. 00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:42.079 It could have could have its own flow that I mean I don't know. 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.199 It could be a flood. 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.159 I mean it yeah, it well if it's Maybe it's gonna be the next flood. 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:48.880 I mean we just keep making ourselves stupider. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:50.079 Well, yeah. 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:52.000 I mean solving all our problems for us. 00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:53.199 Eventually it yeah. 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:55.280 Well, and that's why I feel like it's a lot of people. 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.239 So you think we would have to constrain it? 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:00.719 Oh yeah. 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:02.000 It's not gonna constrain itself. 00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:05.119 What was the last time a reg a corporation regulated itself? 00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:05.679 Yeah. 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.000 Yeah. 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:08.559 No, it's not a good idea. 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:12.719 Did the cops do an investigation of their own behavior and found they were did nothing wrong? 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:13.280 Oh. 00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:15.119 By the way. 00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.960 We did look into myself and it turns out I was fine. 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:21.280 It turns out I'm amazing. 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:22.639 It turns out I was killing it. 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:23.440 It's all your fault. 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:25.519 Um, whatever. 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:27.679 Turns out it's all your fault. 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:28.400 Anyway. 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:28.960 Okay. 00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.360 Okay. 00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.159 I have this um freewheeling is what we're calling this. 00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:37.280 I have this other I want to go back to this idea of the the greater access. 00:47:37.360 --> 00:48:01.840 So this goes back to um with the definition of constructal law and how um I'm I I'm gonna try and paraphrase it as best as I can, but um, I want to say natural phenomenon, let's say in a very broad term, that natural phenomenon follows this constructal law where it's going to uh morph and evolve to allow greater access to what flows within it. 00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:02.320 Yes. 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:15.920 And then you say something over here around, and maybe this is a quote, or maybe I think it's you nothing persists over time if it doesn't find greater access for what flows within it, in this case, useful medical knowledge

that facilitates better human lives. 00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:21.920 So you were saying that this is part of the that's the beginning tie to traditional Chinese medicine and construct a law. 00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:22.320 Yes. 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:37.119 I'm just really struck, and this is maybe a poetic understanding of what you're saying, but this idea of greater access I'm really struck by seeing greater access and then useful medical knowledge that facilitates human lives. 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:48.400 What do you think Western medicine can learn by providing greater access for medical knowledge that better human lives? 00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:52.320 Like, am I just making a crazy sort of like weird connection? 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.119 But I'm just like, I think there's some gold in here. 00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:57.039 Like, what can we learn from this? 00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:03.679 Well, we could learn to remove some blocks and end the private insurance system. 00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:09.599 I mean that that's exactly where my mind goes, is like it's like wow, we're like, Why don't we take out the middleman who's taking all your money? 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:10.239 Totally. 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:13.360 And then you have more money to like pay for things that insurance won't pay for. 00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:13.760 Correct. 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.320 Well, why mean why is insurance not paying for it? 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:18.079 Because some new dude needs a fourth house. 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:23.119 I just heard recently that there have been less insurance claims filed this year in general. 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:26.639 Like insurance claim uh it's it's down by 2030. 00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:29.199 I would compare that to how many people have lost their insurance. 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:37.519 Well, that's why it's because people it's because people lost their insurance, but it's but it's also that they have new plants that they don't understand and they're not so right, this whole issue is. 00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.800 Well, and I know this has gotten kind of like cynical, but there's plenty of reason to be. 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:54.639 And there's plenty of reason to be, but there's something about the construction to construct a law on it phrase like that just kind of gives me a little bit of hope. 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:55.199 Sure. 00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:01.360 Well I mean a little bit of hope that like greater access will prevail somehow, some way. 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.239 No, well, I mean it's never somehow, some way. 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:08.320 It's always through a lot of hard work and effort and some sacrifice. 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:08.800 Yes. 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:17.280 Well, I mean, the other thing is too, I I think I I I was I was starting to make an assumption that everything that flowed was positive. 00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:17.920 No. 00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.320 Ah Not necessarily. 00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.840 There's the road. 00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:24.480 I mean, I guess it depends on what's going on. 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:26.000 How are we defending, right? 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:28.880 Well, I mean, I am a virus. 00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.679 I mean I'm trying to spread to as many people, then huzzah. 00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:32.079 Uh-huh. 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:34.880 You know, I mean, I'm coming at you know. 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.559 Oh yeah. 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:40.559 No math, no process. 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:43.360 You just busted out a huzzah. 00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:44.000 I did. 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:45.760 I didn't break any glasses though. 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:47.119 So good. 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:48.239 Yeah, totally. 00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:50.480 Or, you know, I mean, just think about it. 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.840 Or well, misinformation, misinformation is a form of information flow. 00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:01.599 Yeah, and actually, well, you then right, God, that'd be another interesting way to examine any of this, like the velocity of misinformation versus truth. 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:08.239 And if you look at that from a construct a law perspective, probably find misinformation travels much faster, I bet. 00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:08.960 Uh-huh. 00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:09.360 Uh-huh. 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:22.960 What I would imagine is that I don't know if this is true, but I kind of imagine based on my own relationship with my body, like when I have a positively charged emotion. 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:25.360 Jack's being he's a mean kitty. 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:26.239 He's a mean kitty. 00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.840 Becky's like, get off the table. 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:28.960 I will not tolerate it. 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:30.880 I would not take cat face. 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.679 This cat's been intimidating me for the last eight years. 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.039 So well, but it's um talking about it. 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:46.079 Like, what if Okay, so you know how things are have positive emotional charge? 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:54.880 Like you I'm I'm thinking and feeling positively and grateful about something, or something has a negative emotional charge, I'm thinking and feeling negatively about something. 00:51:55.199 --> 00:52:00.639 And how that emotional charge sometimes I mean, is that part of what affects flow? 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:01.440 Sure. 00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:02.000 Uh huh. 00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:02.559 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:05.440 Cause you talk about like expressing or suppressing. 00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:11.199 So I mean, I'm more likely to express a positive emotion, I'm more likely to suppress a negative emotion. 00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:14.480 But then does a negative emotion then hurt any more because you have suppressed it? 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.159 I mean, there's just it's I mean, I think so. 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:17.199 It's so nuanced. 00:52:17.280

--> 00:52:18.960 And then it's gonna be situational too. 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.480 Like I mean, I mean, sometimes it's good not to blow up at somebody. 00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:26.480 Yes. 00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:28.800 But that doesn't mean it's a clean fuel source for all the things that are. 00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:29.920 It can also be violent. 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:30.320 Yeah. 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:31.119 Yeah. 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:31.920 Yeah. 00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:32.480 Yeah. 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:32.960 Wow. 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:37.840 Or like empathy gone too far becomes, you know, pity, self-sacrifice or martyrdom or something. 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:38.559 Yeah, totally. 00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:38.800 Yeah. 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.400 And so then it becomes about the right the way, the middle path. 00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:43.360 The w the way. 00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:44.159 So there we go. 00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:45.119 Back to Buddhism. 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:46.400 Wow. 00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:47.440 Harmony. 00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.239 Harmony. 00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:49.440 Harmony. 00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:50.239 Wow. 00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:52.079 And then that's always like fluctuating. 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:56.000 This is what I think is interesting about the well again about Chinese medicine. 00:52:56.079 --> 00:53:03.039 So I I do say this that it's I mean, uh the idea I have to go back to the idea of thermodynamic flux. 00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.039 It really isn't as complicated as it sounds. 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:09.679 It is just environmental heat exchange and and the pressures that things experience. 00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:14.639 But um that idea just flew right out of my head. 00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:29.519 It's totally okay because I can riff on it for a second, which is that in terms of thermodynamics, one of the things in in traditional Chinese medicine we talk about is that if um like let's say qi sits and stagnates for too long, it creates heat. 00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:30.800 Yeah, that's right. 00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:36.639 And if and if the heat stays too long, it turns into its opposite. 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:37.760 That's true. 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:39.360 Well, or dryness first. 00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:45.920 I mean all kinds of although how much damp do you have in your body, but it's all it's all super nuanced. 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:47.920 Yeah, um, I don't remember where I was going. 00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:48.800 It'll come back to me. 00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:49.519 Or it won't. 00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:52.639 Well, I think we uh we wrap it up here. 00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:53.039 Sure. 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.519 Yeah. 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:54.639 Because yeah, we could go on and on. 00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:56.079 Yeah, I mean, we could totally go on and on. 00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:00.559 I'm gonna propose that maybe we do a part two after you come back. 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:00.880 Sure. 00:54:01.119

--> 00:54:02.480 And you can give us like a report. 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:05.679 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:08.400 I want the croissant report. 00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:09.840 Oh my goodness. 00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:12.400 I really do think you'd look amazing in a red beret. 00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.199 I just I'm not fooling around. 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:17.840 Like I don't know. 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:19.039 Purple, maybe. 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:21.440 Do you want the striped shirt and the little handkerchief? 00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:23.360 I mean, we want to go full on French. 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:24.000 I don't know. 00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:30.079 So um, where can people find you? 00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:31.440 Oh, um. 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:33.280 What's your website? 00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:35.440 I don't really do that. 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:36.079 You don't want to be able to do that. 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:40.400 Becky Rubright.com at Becky.com. 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:40.639 Yeah. 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:41.920 Yeah, Becky Rubot.com. 00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:44.880 You might have Living Harmony Healing, but it's not really anything I do anything with. 00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:46.800 It's just I mean it's your practice. 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:48.880 Yeah, I don't I don't have that presence. 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:50.159 I'm not really an online person. 00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:51.039 I don't care about it. 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:54.480 Yeah, they can they can email her. 00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:56.320 You can email me or call me on my phone. 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:57.519 All right, I'm gonna link her. 00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:00.880 I'm gonna link whatever information I can get out of her in the show notes. 00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:02.320 I'll just put your put her number. 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:02.960 You could call her text. 00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:04.639 Becky.rubreit at gmail.com. 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:07.280 Becky.com. 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.639 So from my experience, all good accu most of the best acupuncturists I've ever known have been quite feral in this way. 00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:14.480 Yes, I I don't like that. 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:22.800 We don't like I don't like our flow to be constrained by something like a website, you know, with all this magical energy. 00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:23.840 No. 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:29.199 And is um is your paper something that could be available or well I'm gonna see first. 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.159 I'm not sure what the published understanding. 00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:38.480 Yeah, I think the conference decides if they if they want to publish it and if they don't like it or want to put a journal to it, right? 00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:42.239 I think they submit it to a journal, and then if they decide not to, then I can do whatever I want with it. 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:42.960 Totally. 00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:43.760 So yeah. 00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.400 We'll see. 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:46.400 Well, this has been entirely fascinating. 00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:47.119 Thank you so much. 00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:49.360 Oh no, thank you for breaking my podcast, Cherry. 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.760 Oh yeah, it's a virgin! It was so fun. 00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:54.320 It really was. 00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:55.119 Oh, good. 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:56.320 Good. 00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:59.280 Uh well, thank you all for listening. 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:06.400 And if you're new here, if if uh Becky's podcast brought you here, please make sure that you subscribe. 00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:08.559 And we are always looking for new ratings. 00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:15.519 So if you enjoyed this, please leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts and um share it with your friends, because that all helps, right? 00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:16.320 Oh hell yeah. 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:17.039 Oh yeah. 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:21.440 So we will see you all here next time on Being Different together. 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:41.679 Although also, while we're talking about topical stuff, uh when the White House released their official we're calling it SI now instead of AI, he put he misspelled United States. 00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:42.719 I saw that. 00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:43.840 Amazing. 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:44.880 Incredible. 00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:46.639 What's the S stand for? 00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:47.519 Sucker. 00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:49.920 Uh super intelligence. 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:51.280 Oh, okay. 00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:52.559 I think we were just going. 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:53.840 So we were on the fast. 00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:55.199 Yeah, sucker intelligence. 00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:56.079 Sucker fast. 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:56.880 That's the track. 00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:57.519 That's what I think. 00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:58.800 The idiocracy. 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:00.639 Sinister. 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:04.159 Silly puss. 00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:07.280 Sucker and succotash. 00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:14.000 Suicidal. 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:15.519 What would you get to talk talk about? 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:15.840 Yeah. 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:20.880 Alright, so I'm sorry, I'll be serious. 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:22.559 No, no, no, don't be serious.