บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Antonio Valadez & Nate Post | Building Better Engineers Through Better Leadership

Uh, perfect. 00:05:08.524 --> 00:05:09.285 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:09.535 --> 00:05:14.675 What, uh, w-what was the work environment and, and how did you first get to know Tony? 00:05:14.675 --> 00:05:20.365 And, like, at what point did you realize, "Oh, this guy really knows a lot about leadership, and I'd love to learn more from him"? 00:05:20.884 --> 00:05:21.004 Yeah. 00:05:21.004 --> 00:05:31.673 So we started off at, like, say, company A together, and we were both in the trenches working on, products that were next to each other physically within, like, a clean room space. 00:05:32.103 --> 00:05:36.314 And so we would, uh, occasionally, like, bounce ideas off of each other. 00:05:36.334 --> 00:05:42.194 We would share leadership at times, so we'd be in similar meetings and rooms together when it was more of a higher level. 00:05:42.454 --> 00:05:56.494 And then I felt like we were both going through fires at similar times for different issues on the products that we were supporting, and so naturally started just communicating like: "Hey, what, what's your war zone look like today?" And, you know, I'd share what mine looks like today. 00:05:56.843 --> 00:05:58.834 And that, that just kind of grew from there. 00:05:58.834 --> 00:06:04.824 And has a very strong Lean background, so we started talking about continuous improvement and process flow. 00:06:05.673 --> 00:06:09.064 and I, I'm a passionate person about continuous improvement and Lean. 00:06:09.434 --> 00:06:23.213 Um, you know, I have multiple Lean black belts to, to prove my passion, and was constantly learning from him and what he's going through just a few feet away from me and how could I apply that with my team and the lines that I was on and supporting. 00:06:23.283 --> 00:06:28.863 So I think that's kind of how our, our friendship mutual respect started growing was, was in those environments. 00:06:30.076 --> 00:06:31.726 So I, I may have got this part wrong. 00:06:31.757 --> 00:06:32.697 Apologies. 00:06:32.786 --> 00:06:39.557 Uh, was there, was, was Tony your manager at some point, or were you just working in, like, adjacent lines? 00:06:39.677 --> 00:06:40.658 at some point, yes. 00:06:40.668 --> 00:06:41.038 So 00:06:41.107 --> 00:06:41.497 Okay 00:06:41.668 --> 00:06:46.108 company together, we were interacting as, uh, uh, just colleagues. 00:06:46.557 --> 00:06:50.127 Uh, later in life, um, he had switched to a different company. 00:06:50.858 --> 00:06:54.437 just happened to go out to lunch together, and he's looking for some help. 00:06:54.668 --> 00:07:01.137 And he saw the abilities in me and said: "Hey, you know, I…" He didn't really solicit me to apply for anything. 00:07:01.137 --> 00:07:07.067 He was just like, "There's opportunities here." So, so I took it upon myself to, to check out this potential opportunity. 00:07:07.478 --> 00:07:09.817 And I, I credit him. 00:07:09.867 --> 00:07:11.848 There was a panel of people I had to meet with, right? 00:07:11.848 --> 00:07:13.478 So it didn't ride or die with Tony. 00:07:13.497 --> 00:07:14.348 There's a process. 00:07:14.718 --> 00:07:23.348 But I, I do attribute Tony for letting me know that opportunities, uh, occur outside of my normal nine to five, not that he solicited me to apply. 00:07:24.497 --> 00:07:24.947 so yeah. 00:07:24.947 --> 00:07:30.348 So went through that process, and I got hired on at this next company, and I was directly reporting to Antonio. 00:07:30.737 --> 00:08:02.247 So that's where I had the opportunity to go from, you know, colleagues working side by side in the trenches on similar products, similar clean room space, similar business unit, all those things, and now apply it in a new space at a new company where I felt the stakes were even a little bit higher because we went from sustaining products to, like, now in an environment we were in, not only were we trying to sustain some things that were already out there, but we were also trying to take the next greatest product from development all the way through commercialization. 00:08:02.588 --> 00:08:18.367 And that's where I had the opportunity to be a R&D pilot operations leader, um, under his, uh, jurisdiction, his leadership, and he had not only the, the technical MEs reporting to him, he had myself, my operations team, and all of my technicians. 00:08:18.487 --> 00:08:30.197 Um, and just to put a little color here, my team alone reporting to me would get up to a hundred and twenty in size in my org, and that all rolled into him, plus his technical engineering staff that reported into him. 00:08:30.228 --> 00:08:35.158 So it was quite, quite the beast that we were managing and na-navigating together 00:08:36.893 --> 00:08:37.783 You mentioned that 00:08:37.792 --> 00:08:37.951 huh? 00:08:39.471 --> 00:08:39.910 Sorry, Aaron. 00:08:40.062 --> 00:08:42.293 I'll walk down memory lane here. 00:08:42.383 --> 00:08:42.952 Yeah. 00:08:43.942 --> 00:09:08.283 Uh, Nate, you mentioned that, um, uh, in between that transition from company A to company B, you and Tony went out to lunch and, and he had recognized some, uh, behaviors or attributes in you, and he thought, like, "We could really use those skills." I'm curious, did you recognize those things in yourself at the time, or, or was Tony someone who helped you see some of these, uh, skills that you had? 00:09:08.788 --> 00:09:14.798 Um, Tony's one of those people in my life that sees some things in me that I'm, like, my worst critic on, right? 00:09:14.837 --> 00:09:23.138 Um, I feel like I'm, I'm taught through the annual review cycle to focus on these areas of development, and I forget about the areas I'm really crushing at, at life, right? 00:09:23.138 --> 00:09:25.408 And I think we all have those things we're crushing it at, right? 00:09:25.648 --> 00:09:27.087 And we all have those things we could develop. 00:09:28.107 --> 00:09:49.518 saw the quantity and the quality of the things I was doing really well at and wanted to help

elevate those even further, and gave me, not, not necessarily compliments, but he had the, the checks and the receipts to show that I was doing the work, and I, I was deserving of that next step in my career, right? 00:10:30.079 --> 00:10:43.839 So Tony, I think that's a, a really, um, unique skill set that, that maybe goes overlooked itself, the ability to see in others what they don't see themselves necessarily. 00:10:44.129 --> 00:10:53.229 Do you remember, and this doesn't necessarily need to be specific to Nate, I'm sure this applies to m- many other individuals that you've worked with over the years as well. 00:10:53.229 --> 00:11:03.859 But how, how was it that you, like, extracted the, uh, uh, the, the insight you had into Nate and, and others' abilities? 00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:06.058 How does that work for you internally? 00:11:06.058 --> 00:11:13.089 Like, is that, do you take time out of your schedule every week to intentionally think about, all right, here are the things this person does well? 00:11:13.099 --> 00:11:16.058 Or, or does it kind of just occur to you over time? 00:11:17.298 --> 00:11:18.817 Yeah, that's a great question, Erin. 00:11:18.878 --> 00:11:23.457 I, I think, um, uh, uh, I don't have a system in place, to be honest. 00:11:23.538 --> 00:11:28.968 I think I, I have to be honest, um, it's, it's more intuitive in my end. 00:11:30.538 --> 00:11:58.608 I also have to recognize that I had a very good, uh, positive influence when it came to understanding what leadership Very early in my career, I had the privilege of working with very good management, uh, I think the years, very early, and, and that to me made a great impact on not only helping me grow as a professional, but understanding what leadership, uh, could entitle, you know? 00:11:59.057 --> 00:12:17.778 Um, and I think through, uh, being intuitive, being able to grasp, you know, good practices, being able to understand how can you influence in multiple ways the ability of somebody to become successful in their work as a professional, uh, that started growing in me. 00:12:17.838 --> 00:12:52.538 Um, and when I started having the opportunity to actually apply those briefly skills, you know, from just interacting with production personnel, technicians who reported to me very early in my career and when that, and how can I able to help them go to the next level, you know, empower them, having them recognize their strengths, having them be able to work on their weaknesses and so forth, that, you know, uh, boost my confidence to say, you know, I think, I think I have the ability to actually, you know, bring somebody into their next level and so forth. 00:12:52.538 --> 00:12:57.077 And, and to be honest, Erin, it's not something that I, uh, put my head on. 00:12:57.248 --> 00:13:21.851 Uh, when I saw the necessity and the opportunity, I just pulled the trigger and, and when it came to interacting with Nate, uh, that sparkled itself, um- Uh, I remember our interactions, uh, early interactions on company A, uh, quickly give me the impression that they-- that Nate had a very strong people's person, you know, profile, and that to me speaks a lot, you know? 00:13:21.851 --> 00:13:28.432 'Cause if you're gonna be managing people, you need to know how to treat, you know, and he was very respectful with people, very clear, very honest. 00:13:28.882 --> 00:13:33.072 And also some of the attributes that I, you know, will pay attention to amongst other stuff. 00:13:33.492 --> 00:13:45.351 Uh, but that and the environment that we're working on, uh, made a great deal when it came to be transparent on, you know, acknowledging issues properly in a very respectful manner and whatnot. 00:13:45.841 --> 00:13:56.412 And, and across the board, you know, I, I remember when I decided to, you know, pick Nate's brain at one point to say, "Would you be interested on going the next level?" Right? 00:13:57.282 --> 00:14:05.242 'cause I knew he had it in him, and it became only just polishing some of the skills that he had already just into a different scenario. 00:14:05.492 --> 00:14:16.522 But with the right empowerment, with the right skill sets, with the right guidance, and, and I think we had very good fun, and I'm very glad to see him now as a very successful professional in his career. 00:14:16.735 --> 00:14:17.065 Yeah. 00:14:17.238 --> 00:14:20.288 I I do wanna follow up though. 00:14:20.608 --> 00:14:24.207 So, uh, now I get to grill my manager, uh, my old manager and friend. 00:14:24.557 --> 00:14:34.838 Um, Tony, though, you, you had said something to me, uh, early on in my, my career reporting to you in, in that, in, in that leadership style where I wanna make sure we have a minute with today. 00:14:35.298 --> 00:14:45.567 Um, I don't remember exactly the whole day and how the whole day went, but I do remember there was a product we were supporting at company B. We were-- we were kinda down and out, right? 00:14:45.567 --> 00:14:51.067 It was like if we were in a American football game, you know, it's the, the end of it, the, the game. 00:14:51.077 --> 00:14:57.728 We're, you know, last four down-- last down, we're four yards away from the goal, and we need to do this to win, to win the game, right? 00:14:58.158 --> 00:15:02.288 And you came out with a, a speech within the cleanroom environment. 00:15:02.317 --> 00:15:03.207 Everyone was there. 00:15:03.207 --> 00:15:05.518 We had engineers, operators, myself, my team. 00:15:05.738 --> 00:15:06.408 Everyone was there. 00:15:06.807 --> 00:15:09.177 And you were able to rally the troops, right? 00:15:09.248 --> 00:15:11.048 And you did it in a way that was sincere. 00:15:11.447 --> 00:15:21.207 Um, you weren't claiming false things that we could or couldn't do, and the team was able to, to meet, if not exceed, the expectations you s- you set in front of us, right? 00:15:21.927 --> 00:15:25.557 Um, I don't know if you remember the conversation directly after.

00:15:25.768 --> 00:15:26.498 I waited for you. 00:15:26.927 --> 00:15:35.927 I pulled you aside, and I swore a little bit, and I was like,"What the heck? I wa-- How, how do I do what you just did?" Right? 00:15:35.968 --> 00:15:37.528 That, that was an aspiration I had. 00:15:37.827 --> 00:15:42.588 I was like, I I " wanna be able to present and lead like you do." And I don't know if you remember what you said to me. 00:15:42.588 --> 00:15:51.138 You're the only person who's ever said this to me in my career, but it was something along the lines of you were very calm, you were very, uh, cordial, and you were extremely sincere. 00:15:51.538 --> 00:15:55.418 And you told me that your goal for me wasn't for me to become you. 00:15:55.697 --> 00:16:03.177 Your goal was to polish me into the best version of me, to where I could do something like that, but I-- not to copy you, to be me. 00:16:03.298 --> 00:16:11.298 And if I were to try and copy you or any other leader at company A, company B, company C, and company D, I'll just fail because it'll never look like the real me. 00:16:11.768 --> 00:16:13.488 You're the only person who said that to me. 00:16:13.947 --> 00:16:23.827 There's times in my career, real fast, to give you a stark example difference, where I've been asked to fit a certain cookie cutter. 00:16:24.008 --> 00:16:32.718 Like, "This is the shape we need you to fit. This is the tie we need you to wear. These are the shoes we need you to wear, and this is exactly what we need you to say line for line," right? 00:16:33.187 --> 00:16:40.197 And there may be times where that's a necessity, but you came at it with a totally different approach that shaped me, that one conversation. 00:16:40.197 --> 00:16:45.878 And I'm-- And it sounds like leaders have shaped you throughout your life, even finding engineering at a, at an early age, right? 00:16:45.898 --> 00:16:47.677 So we may have your uncle to blame here. 00:16:48.067 --> 00:16:51.577 But, like, what… I wanna tap a little more into that. 00:16:51.628 --> 00:16:54.187 what prompted you to say that to me? 00:16:54.218 --> 00:16:56.067 Like, what the heck books are you reading? 00:16:56.108 --> 00:16:57.567 What gurus are you talking to? 00:16:57.807 --> 00:17:01.278 'Cause this isn't commonplace that I see in the environments I work in. 00:17:02.577 --> 00:17:03.488 Yeah, no, and thank you. 00:17:03.488 --> 00:17:15.548 I, I really appreciate, uh, Nate, that you recognize that, and, and I'm very glad that that had a very positive, uh, impact, uh, which I saw throughout your development piece for the remaining of our timeline. 00:17:15.738 --> 00:17:23.437 And that end, Uh, I, I kinda have glanced at the conversation, to be honest with you, and I had a multiple conversation of the same nature. 00:17:23.437 --> 00:17:28.357 I think I'm, I'm sure there were multiple in, in different and, and very stressful environments. 00:17:28.407 --> 00:17:37.048 Um, but I-- to be honest, one of the things

that I, that I think I, I enjoy the most is right in the middle of the storm, right? 00:17:37.187 --> 00:17:44.887 Is, in my opinion, one of the best opportunities where the leadership can truly step in have the better impact on their people. 00:17:45.247 --> 00:17:46.667 And, and that was a great example. 00:17:46.677 --> 00:17:50.187 You know, I, I remember we had a lot of things on our plate. 00:17:50.197 --> 00:17:57.417 Things were not moving in the right direction and whatnot, so people were already scrambling and, and'cause we needed to deliver, right? 00:17:57.417 --> 00:18:10.147 And those, in my mind, those are the best timings to actually people recognize, you know, the talent that they have, the true positive influence that can make when they allow themselves to, you know, pause and say, "You know what? 00:18:10.147 --> 00:18:11.487 We can do this," right? 00:18:12.647 --> 00:18:26.007 in, in that case, uh, having the chance to actually, uh, clear up your mind and understand, you know, listen, I'm, I'm very proud that you see me as an opportunity to guide and exhibit something that you can, that you can find useful. 00:18:27.347 --> 00:18:33.127 but there's a reason why we picked you over because you can provide something else on top of that, right? 00:18:34.267 --> 00:18:46.597 And, I remember, um, um, I'm sure both of you have seen, you know, and read multiple leadership type of books and whatnot, and there's, uh, occasional leadership, there's, you know, uh, troublesome leadership and whatnot. 00:18:47.727 --> 00:18:55.977 And, if you remember, Nate, uh, back in those days, um, team itself had very, poor support before you came in. 00:18:56.937 --> 00:19:02.767 were not… They, they really lacked in leadership, uh, by the time you came in, uh, for different reasons and so forth. 00:19:03.567 --> 00:19:09.397 some of the things that I saw in you is that positive energy that you bring to the table, right? 00:19:09.757 --> 00:19:18.627 So rather than discourage you to not follow something, it's pretty much giving you the opportunity to understand this is something that you're very good, you know, and I can see it. 00:19:19.028 --> 00:19:33.557 So just go ahead and make that happen'cause samples of people like me, like other leaders that were working around you, and just shape your own because you are building that piece and you're creating your own footprint, and people are gonna recognize that in you. 00:19:33.597 --> 00:19:36.727 And, and 'cause I, I was given that opportunity myself, you know? 00:19:36.727 --> 00:19:46.237 And like I said, I, I can only speak about the good, how lucky I was to actually have good leaders above me most of the time. 00:19:46.381 --> 00:19:47.192 Yeah most of the time. 00:19:47.247 --> 00:19:49.227 be honest, most of the time, right? 00:19:49.587 --> 00:20:03.497 But I, I took even, even from those leaders where I didn't saw myself, you know, represented, I also took a lot of learning, and I was able to

actually build up my own judgment, my own ways of making decisions, my own way of influence and so forth. 00:20:04.387 --> 00:20:24.309 but having the ability to, like I said, under the storm- Take a pause have somebody recognize how talented that person is to actually make a difference under those conditions, that to me is one of the best opportunities ever to actually have that person see, you know, yes, we-- you can make it, but that's the reason why you're here. 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:26.149 That's why I brought you over, right? 00:20:26.629 --> 00:20:28.579 And man, you never disappointed, Nate. 00:20:28.629 --> 00:20:32.649 I, and I thought we, we, we went through very rough battles. 00:20:32.692 --> 00:20:32.961 yeah. 00:20:33.159 --> 00:20:36.789 We, actually struggled during that, but we always saw the end of the light, you know? 00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:39.419 And, and, and those, those are great, great experiences, man. 00:20:39.490 --> 00:20:39.649 Yeah 00:20:39.994 --> 00:20:40.304 Well 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.619 So you've had some really good leadership early on in your career is what you attribute, 'cause 00:20:44.836 --> 00:20:45.065 Oh, 00:20:45.269 --> 00:20:45.619 that 00:20:45.846 --> 00:20:46.315 Yeah 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:54.629 unfort- what you've done for me in, in that one instance alone is not natural for what I've seen in my career and when times are rough, right? 00:20:55.699 --> 00:21:00.319 Right Right And like I said you know uh even even after we parked 00:21:01.176 --> 00:21:02.576 Угу 00:21:03.459 --> 00:22:52.609 had other experiences uh from a leadership perspective and so forth um uh both ways you know Continue influencing but also seeing you know the the the not so encouraging way of doing things and whatnot And and that to me is you know it's part of the learning and not this is not just limited to an industry This is life right How can you influence a person's ability to recognize that that person has the right skills and whatever they have we can maximize it by you know empowering by having a clear ability to make the right decisions and and understand the impact of their decisions the impact of them influencing others and whatnot you don't get that by reading a book or going to a training In my opinion in my own book it's a daytoday interaction You know it's have them understand why you're here and and not just applauding It's also if you remind If you if you go back to some of those days it's it's it's identify what's not working as well but quickly jumping into it right In the right way with with the right positive influencing and whatnot And and I saw you doing the same stuff with your people and then your people doing it with their people and whatnot And and that to me was a great great um opportunity to see how when we establish a good communication system when we have uh a good honesty way of going back and forth of of presenting the the goods and the bads and when adding transparency right From a

leadership perspective it made my life very easy honestly And and I can always And I think we saw it and and and we spoke to each other in that way says we enjoy our time not just because manage different situations but we understood each other and respect each other as uh as as professionals and human beings And to me that's a huge huge piece of all this 00:22:52.649 --> 00:22:54.539 Yeah, and with that came a lot of trust, right? 00:22:54.549 --> 00:23:02.549 So I, I was given rope at times to do some, some pretty cheeky things with my team where I, I could reward them in, in creative ways. 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:11.769 You know, where maybe money was a little hard at different times, there was ways to reward the team for, for going the extra mile or, or putting in way… An extra mile, but putting in way too many hours, right? 00:23:11.779 --> 00:23:15.269 And finding ways to give them a little family time or personal time. 00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:19.269 So, um, yeah, the trust and working together was, was awesome. 00:23:20.365 --> 00:23:20.846 Exactly 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:30.110 One, one of the words that comes to mind that I don't think I've heard explicitly stated, uh, as I listen to the two of you talk about leadership is authenticity. 00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:42.780 And I, I wonder, um, Nate, you mentioned, uh, a time, I guess, when you were asked to lead but you had to fit a, a certain shape, right? 00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:46.370 L- wear a certain tie or fit into a certain cookie cutter shape. 00:23:47.040 --> 00:23:59.740 To what extent is it possible to truly be a leader if you're not allowed, or maybe you don't have the psychological safety established to be authentic? 00:24:00.425 --> 00:24:04.975 Yeah, I, I think you're only getting a percentage of the person's true talent and capabilities. 00:24:05.065 --> 00:24:16.065 Um, it's like, a hose and you're putting a kink in it where, yeah, I would like some fluid coming out of this hose to wash my car or fill this bucket, or if we're talking med device, coat this product, right? 00:24:16.205 --> 00:24:18.285 Um, the hydrophilic coating comes to mind. 00:24:18.635 --> 00:24:20.865 Oh, some war stories in the past. 00:24:21.765 --> 00:24:28.505 until you can actually open that hose and open that bucket to get its full flow and its full potential, you're never gonna know what that person can do 00:24:31.326 --> 00:24:34.317 Feel like I have a unique opportunity here, and I have to take it. 00:24:34.336 --> 00:24:41.176 I have two great leaders right in front of me, and I would love to stress test an idea that, that I've had. 00:24:41.446 --> 00:24:49.686 This is a definition that I've come up with for, for what a leader is, and maybe the two of you have your own concise definitions that, that you use. 00:24:49.946 --> 00:24:58.916 The definition that, that I have come up with over just the past year really for a leader is, uh, a leader is a guide who loves you. 00:24:59.406 --> 00:25:00.796 So there are two parts to that. 00:25:00.856 --> 00:25:09.166 A guide, meaning this person has some knowledge or wisdom that can take you from where you are to some place that's better, right? 00:25:09.196 --> 00:25:10.136 He can guide you. 00:25:10.156 --> 00:25:11.026 She can guide you. 00:25:11.296 --> 00:25:18.076 And then who loves you, who, who actually cares, who genuinely, genuinely cares about you as a person. 00:25:18.366 --> 00:25:34.586 And to me, I, I think to myself, if, if a leader, uh, an, an alleged leader does not have those two elements, the, the wisdom to guide you from where you are to someplace better and, and genuine care and, and love for you, then to me, that person does not meet my definition of a leader. 00:25:34.836 --> 00:25:44.536 And, and I would love to just spitball a little bit and, and hear your reactions to that and stress test that a little bit because this is, uh, to me, it, it, it makes total sense. 00:25:44.557 --> 00:25:51.626 But, but I would love to hear what two other very experienced, um, successful leaders have to think about this definition. 00:25:54.705 --> 00:25:54.765 God nat 00:25:56.051 --> 00:25:56.221 Sure. 00:25:56.221 --> 00:25:59.442 I'll, I'll go first, and then we'll, we'll cap it off with a real mentor here. 00:25:59.771 --> 00:26:02.721 But when you're talking about that, I, I think of the word mentor, right? 00:26:02.761 --> 00:26:09.211 A leader to me is like a mentor, a real leader, 'cause they're here to foster, grow, and cultivate the next generation of leadership, right? 00:26:09.631 --> 00:26:24.371 At a time of my career, um, there was a supervisor reporting to me, and my aspiration was for him to eventually become my boss, and I could retire reporting to him because then I know I set up, um, this company and our generation with the next best leader. 00:26:24.451 --> 00:26:26.551 So I haven't heard of it. 00:26:26.551 --> 00:26:34.761 I, I… You and I have chatted offline before, um, so I, I, I have a, a preview to this a little bit, um, but I haven't thought about it in depth. 00:26:35.111 --> 00:26:38.861 I-- putting me on the spot, I think you're onto something. 00:26:39.192 --> 00:27:26.671 I think that word love, I, hate to put my corporate hat on, corporate Carl is what I call him. 00:27:27.031 --> 00:27:28.271 Um, I think that word in 00:27:28.552 --> 00:27:29.452 Corporate Carl. 00:27:29.571 --> 00:27:31.341 Yeah, that's what I, that's what I call him. 00:27:31.731 --> 00:27:39.101 Um, I think in, in the, the corporate sense at times that, that word can maybe, um, look like favoritism, right? 00:27:39.241 --> 00:27:44.011 Um, so I, I think maybe soften the blow but still keep the intent there, right? 00:27:44.051 --> 00:27:47.521 And not look like favoritism and look like true empathy and intent. 00:27:47.981 --> 00:27:50.971 Um, but yeah, I think you're onto something really special. 00:27:51.061 --> 00:28:01.681 And I think my best mentors, whether they're officially

branded a mentor or not, have just even led me that way, whether they were my direct manager or someone I've interacted with my-- in my life 00:28:05.169 --> 00:28:29.587 Right Um I that's a that's a good that's a good question and and you know the perspective you're bringing into the table Aaron with you know uh should I expect uh The leader to show me love in in whatever way that implies You know I I think now that I'm thinking on it particularly I think I'm gonna slightly disagree 00:28:30.006 --> 00:28:30.356 Great. 00:28:30.446 --> 00:28:31.056 Let's hear it. 00:28:31.286 --> 00:28:31.616 Yeah 00:28:31.997 --> 00:32:24.799 Um I think there's different factors around how a person could truly show appreciation and expect appreciation backwards right Uh love to think that my leader loves me and hence is gonna show me uh the right way of doing things is gonna guide me is gonna give the right corrections And when And that to me could be perceived as you know that's that's that's why I have that connection with him because this is the type of I wanna put a love between I perceive a good manager should be and why not Um however I think um and I'm gonna bring a factor right now which I think both of you guys could agree or disagree uh is the generational factor right My generation was exposed to a way of perceiving good leadership I enjoy being corrected I enjoy being told how not to do things I enjoy being shown how I have to go back and understand my decisionmaking process I enjoy asked to expose and go back and understand that that was not the right way of doing things and so forth But that's how my generation could have been Now you have to understand the background on how this generation of engineers have grown and how society have the standards for them to receive feedback And I think that's the key word is is how you provide that feedback how you understand the background of a person truly send the right message at the right time for the right thing Just to give you an example um having somebody understand that they made a wrong decision could have a strong implication on their ability to you know perceive me as a good leader right Because the background of that person could be in a way that they were never shown that they make right decisions They were just shown that there's decisions as a whole and you are entitled to you know screw up here and there right my way of presenting that for a person as an opportunity for them to become a better engineer that's how I think I can provide that person the right influence and why not Whether that person perceive it as love and why not you know that could be you know uh a controversial thing to do But but to me it's it's more about my The right uh uh tempo the right way for me to pr to to provide the feedback in a way that the person can truly understand not being discouraged I'm not being told that I'm a bad engineer when I cause you know we are humans and I have problems you have problems and and the bad timing could signify you know somebody getting discouraged But I think a a good leader's ability to encourage and use that momentum for that person to acknowledge you know this is the right time for you to learn take the right level take the next decision and so forth I think uh not sure if I discourage myself right now the love terminology but but I think uh that's why I said I kinda disagree because to me it's more about my way of providing that feedback and but it's a person to person I remember when I provided feedback to Nate uh I did it in a different way than how I provide to other leaders right And I need to understand Nate personality for him to acknowledge that I'm actually trying to have him recognize opportunities for him to be better that I can tell that I will never do it the same way for somebody that has a total different personality a total different uh background And that's how I modulate myself around those conditions allow me to you know become in my perspective um a better leader right Per se 00:32:25.015 --> 00:32:25.345 Yeah. 00:32:25.355 --> 00:32:32.401 So my, my question then, Tony, is, uh What about, um, the guidance part, right? 00:32:32.441 --> 00:32:40.021 'Cause I think Aaron started off with, you know, guiding us, you know, people along their path, and then the follow-up was the love. 00:32:40.041 --> 00:32:41.231 It was the two pieces. 00:32:41.291 --> 00:32:44.591 I, I feel like I've heard you share a lot about guidance, right? 00:32:44.591 --> 00:32:47.771 So I feel like the first part you're pretty aligned with, right? 00:32:49.041 --> 00:33:03.991 Um, the, the the, second piece though, I think both of us had a little, from our, our, our corporate Carl days, um, a, a little knee-jerk reaction around maybe the intensity of what love means both for our families outside of work and, and how tight we get with others. 00:33:04.301 --> 00:33:23.681 But I think what you're doing, um, in the way you've even coached and guided me might not necessarily be the word love to you, but it is… You're taking in, in my, in my experience as being a recipient of your leadership, is you're taking in some considerations and you're right-sizing your solutions for your audience one-on-one, right? 00:33:23.961 --> 00:33:36.731 So m- might not be the right word for you to describe how you, you've helped and guide me, but there's still some level of care and concern helping me grow, in, in anyone else you've worked with, right? 00:33:37.051 --> 00:33:42.821 So I don't know, Aaron, I'm, I'm kinda summarizing here, but I feel like we both agree 100% at the beginning. 00:33:43.161 --> 00:33:47.771 But the second, we might wordsmith it a little different, uh, 'cause of our corporate experience. 00:33:48.071 --> 00:33:50.441 Um, but other… 00:33:50.556 --> 00:33:51.106 Absolutely 00:33:51.261 --> 00:33:58.181 if there is a company out there that uses love in the way they coach and mentor, hey, uh, give me a call, I would love to learn

more about your company. 00:34:00.261 --> 00:34:00.531 yeah 00:34:00.626 --> 00:34:01.306 that word again. 00:34:02.046 --> 00:34:06.086 I, I really genuinely appreciate the, like, the candor. 00:34:06.136 --> 00:34:18.567 Um, uh, Tony, like you, and Nate, same with you I'm sure as well, I appreciate when people push back and say, "I don't know if that's quite right," or may- maybe you're not quite r- thinking about that the right way. 00:34:18.817 --> 00:34:21.447 Uh, so thank you for, for the candor, for sure. 00:34:21.777 --> 00:34:26.156 And, uh, I think this goes back to authenticity, right? 00:34:26.156 --> 00:34:31.527 Because I, for sure, I totally get the knee-jerk reaction to that word love. 00:34:31.547 --> 00:34:33.286 You can't say love in business. 00:34:33.317 --> 00:34:34.297 You, you can't do it. 00:34:34.576 --> 00:34:35.306 That's not right. 00:34:35.317 --> 00:34:36.677 You're, you're breaking the rules. 00:34:36.833 --> 00:34:36.933 I 00:34:37.047 --> 00:34:38.036 Yeah, you can't do that. 00:34:38.576 --> 00:34:39.967 HR is gonna give you a call. 00:34:39.967 --> 00:34:41.106 You're in trouble, Buster, 00:34:41.355 --> 00:34:41.615 Oh 00:34:41.666 --> 00:34:43.656 Corporate Carl is gonna be on your case. 00:34:43.683 --> 00:34:43.844 you. 00:34:43.947 --> 00:34:45.686 He's coming for you. 00:34:46.547 --> 00:34:47.376 Totally, right? 00:34:47.416 --> 00:34:48.626 I, I totally get it. 00:34:48.766 --> 00:34:58.356 And so, like, part of me does wanna change that definition a little bit, soften it maybe a little bit and be like, uh, okay, a leader is a guide who cares about you, right? 00:34:58.516 --> 00:35:01.717 Same, same intent, maybe not with that knee-jerk reaction. 00:35:02.126 --> 00:35:08.416 Me personally, I just feel like I need to use the word love, and, and that's… I think that's the auth- authenticity. 00:35:08.697 --> 00:35:15.206 Uh, that's my way of expressing how I authentically feel, uh, a- about that. 00:35:15.206 --> 00:35:17.257 So anyway, my, my two cents. 00:35:17.943 --> 00:35:19.003 I feel like that's from a movie. 00:35:20.967 --> 00:35:25.156 I, I listened to a podcast for a little while called Love Is Damn Good Business. 00:35:25.156 --> 00:35:26.496 I thought that was a clever title. 00:35:28.356 --> 00:35:28.717 All right. 00:35:28.976 --> 00:35:29.817 Uh, let's see. 00:35:29.876 --> 00:35:33.616 Um, so Tony, a question for you. 00:35:33.866 --> 00:35:46.336 When, when you're managing especially younger engineers, and maybe you notice some characteristic or behavior that, that, that you pick up on as, "I'm not sure that's really what we wanna be encouraging here. 00:35:46.336 --> 00:35:57.636 That might need some correction," how do you determine, like, that that is truly a behavior that needs to be corrected versus "That's just different than how I would behave, but it's not bad"? 00:35:59.446 --> 00:36:33.751 Right Um It's a casebycase situation that that goes back to being intuitive in in that

perspective Um uh there's there's behaviors have to deal with how somebody manage a stressful situation per se There's behavior with somebody how do they present themselves to communicate ideas How do they believe they're acting as a good um key players within a team member environment why not So it To answer your question Erin I think I will pretty much look into what was the scenario where I detected that 00:36:33.964 --> 00:36:34.834 The context 00:36:35.261 --> 00:39:06.409 exactly And and then from that perspective understand you know what what could have done could have that behavior uh could have been differently if you know perceived this this way Um uh something that I like to uh always bring up to people within this industry is that we have to recognize that every time we step into a company we are not working in silos We are part of a team right So we have to be mindful on how to present ourselves into smalls and big groups through sharing ideas to criticizing ideas to disclosing to X and Y You are not working on your own So that has to be very good understood because um a lot of these behaviors end up being with people at least in my experience struggle with communicating uh and just to give you an example in those cases um I may have done it with Nate in a different environment and whatnot I like to say time to have the oneonones To me providing feedback as early as possible is the best opportunity ever right As soon as I recognize personally chance to you know provide a scenario not necessarily saying that something was done wrong It's just providing scenarios on how that situation could have been managed discussed approached differently that's where I like to hit to pull the trigger and say You know what What would you think Right And would you ever consider something like this Or In your perspective you think such and such could have been done differently Why And and having that person understand that it's not necessarily criticism it's not necessarily you know am I on the spot right now because something has done No It's just get advantage of the learning process that that particular event brought you Cause to me every day is different right And every interaction give us an opportunity to expose ourselves to a different learning piece Um and that's how I most of the times Erin will just pull the trigger and just pinpoint X Y and Z situations and have a person understood if if that recognized as an opportunity to improve to do something different or just to you know continue learning from that point forward Cause sometimes we we are very stubborn so we don't we just hear but we don't truly apply right So it it it it also relies on that person's ability to recognize that that's the feedback that will help you get get into the right direction 00:39:06.892 --> 00:39:07.242 Yeah 00:39:07.585 --> 00:39:13.065 And, then I've actually been on the flip side of that, where I've been the recipient of a one-on-one after a decision was made.

00:39:13.515 --> 00:39:16.455 And ha-having a great leader, right? 00:39:16.475 --> 00:39:18.045 That's what we're talking about today, leadership. 00:39:18.765 --> 00:39:26.985 leader came down s- to sit down with me and to be like, "Hey, um…" Kinda coach and walk me backwards through my decision-making process. 00:39:27.435 --> 00:39:49.355 And very quickly, I was able to show that leader why I made the decision I made, to the point they're like, literally leaned back in their chair, sunk down, and was like, "Yeah, we're done here." Like, "You, you did exactly what you should've done in this situation." But it was, it was also that leader didn't have all the information they needed to, to know I came to that conclusion and took the direction I took. 00:39:49.355 --> 00:39:55.905 So not only are those, like, one-on-ones really powerful for the direct reports that I've experienced, right? 00:39:55.905 --> 00:40:04.245 To get feedback, and I've helped coach and guide them, but it's also provided a, a way to manage up and make sure my leader knows why I'm thinking the way I'm thinking. 00:40:04.245 --> 00:40:10.655 And then from good leaders like Tony that I've had in my career, be able to get some of their logic and apply that to my day-to-day 00:40:12.567 --> 00:40:17.146 I had a guest on the show a while back, Jake Kennington, and he's also become a friend. 00:40:17.146 --> 00:40:17.886 Just a great guy. 00:40:18.096 --> 00:40:29.936 And w- one of the things he said that I remember from his interview was that, uh, we don't grow by experience, we grow by reflecting on experience. 00:40:30.326 --> 00:40:50.256 And what, what I hear the two of you saying right now is a good leader is someone who can help those under him or her reflect on their experience, not just leave them at the experience, but then guide them through, "Okay, let's talk about what happened." And he, you know, h- how did it get from A to B? 00:40:50.256 --> 00:40:52.426 And, and what do we learn from that? 00:40:52.476 --> 00:40:53.096 Um, 00:40:53.511 --> 00:40:53.641 Yeah. 00:40:54.256 --> 00:40:54.576 yeah. 00:40:54.811 --> 00:40:55.321 That's really good 00:40:55.511 --> 00:40:56.581 I agree Mmhmm 00:40:58.670 --> 00:40:59.471 Let's see. 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:14.520 So you both talked about maybe difficult times at work when, I don't know, you were under some tight deadlines maybe, or there was a lot expected of you, and you had to, you had to crunch through it, right? 00:41:14.520 --> 00:41:21.780 Tony got up and gave this motivational speech to the crew in the clean room, and, and, and everyone got on board and g- got things done. 00:41:22.410 --> 00:41:31.190 How, how do you… It can be so easy to just focus on the operational aspects of getting things done, right? 00:41:31.201 --> 00:41:32.250 Do we have enough people? 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:33.280 Do we have enough tools? 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.740 Do we have enough whatever, resources? 00:41:36.050 --> 00:41:39.180 And, and to forget about that human element. 00:41:39.180 --> 00:41:41.630 At the end of the day, it is people doing this work. 00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:57.500 What are… Do you have any practical suggestions, some, some tactical things that leaders can do to make sure that people don't get shoved down to the bottom and forgotten when you get into these, um, tight situations? 00:42:00.567 --> 00:42:01.727 I, I went first last time. 00:42:01.727 --> 00:42:02.827 Do you wanna go first this time, Tony? 00:42:03.987 --> 00:44:29.727 Yeah no I I'll I'll go first and you'll go last well let me share a couple I think that come to mind very quickly Um first of all personally like to take the uh the stress environment out of the workload like to be the one that absorb that and have them recognize that listen stay focused you know sharpen your mindset you're here to execute Um and the reason why I say that is because sometimes we all have managements right I have my own leadership and and and and they all go back and ask me about my results and why my people are not delivering so on so forth I don't want that to cascade down to the ones that are executing So I like to shield all that stress out of the group so they just stay and remain on track right Just speak to them as calmly as possible have them understand the importance of their decisionmaking process They're handson What they're doing is already contributing We're not we're not moving perhaps as fast as we could but we're gaining we're seeing the light of the tunnel So continue focusing on that and get that stress out of their mindset So that to me is key is to remind everybody the importance of what they're doing It's not just about a task It's for instance in the medical device industry it's making sure that we achieve this because we are helping lives at the end of the tunnel you know and that's key you know It's reminding people why their purpose in life is in the industry and whatever industry that could be right In this case we have been very blessed to actually be part of an industry that can change a person's life like to use that as often as possible because it does give you the perspective that don't focus just on a on a deadline Don't focus just on making sure that is being done right that that has a meaning and whatever we're delivering is gonna help somebody else improve their life at the end So clearing their mindset and making sure that they have the right perspective of things from an holistic view uh in my opinion you know helps the team realize that they can pretty much execute in the right direction with the right mindset And and of course there's gonna be a lot of and outs here and there but but constantly helping them from that perspective has given me the opportunity to see groups move in a different way 00:44:30.754 --> 00:44:30.994 I love it. 00:44:31.004 --> 00:44:34.605 So you're saying just y- y- you are kind of the barrier, right? 00:44:34.744 --> 00:44:38.704 Uh, don't pass

all that stress down to those who are doing the work. 00:44:38.714 --> 00:44:45.625 You absorb that because you're right, people who are stressed and, and afraid or fearful, they're not gonna do the best work. 00:44:45.804 --> 00:44:52.294 So if you can alleviate them of that stress and, and you just… But that puts a lot of burden on you as, as the leader, right? 00:44:52.304 --> 00:44:53.254 To carry that load. 00:44:54.201 --> 00:45:20.391 Exactly Yes And I and Nate can attest that and I'll let you speak but I remember and and and when I was uh overseeing Nate and his team and when that My own manager uh he wanted to come down and and go into the cleanroom and I'll say There's no way you're coming here right Cause the sooner the sooner they see you you know everything's gonna come down and people are gonna get so stressed out So stay away You know I'll let you know when things are good for you to jump 00:45:20.535 --> 00:45:21.455 Yeah yeah 00:45:21.601 --> 00:45:22.541 situation." Right? 00:45:22.541 --> 00:45:23.851 So anyways, go ahead, 00:45:23.895 --> 00:45:25.405 Yeah, Tony had a really good filter. 00:45:25.405 --> 00:45:33.195 I think about, you know, things rolling downhill, and he would stand in front of it and lean into it, uh, for, for as long as possible, right? 00:45:33.255 --> 00:45:36.596 Um, and I, and pr- definitely appreciate that. 00:45:37.035 --> 00:45:44.645 Um, for me, you know, making sure the human element there, yeah, I've been pretty blessed to be in the med device industry for the majority of my career. 00:45:45.585 --> 00:45:52.225 you know, products that I've been a part of helping build have my own family, from diagnostics to keeping people alive. 00:45:52.495 --> 00:45:54.025 Um, so, so that's pretty amazing. 00:45:54.445 --> 00:46:05.085 How I connect with people that I work with throughout my career, whether it's through, uh, direct leadership as a manager or just pure, you know, colleague to colleague, it's-- I like to get to understand people first. 00:46:05.135 --> 00:46:07.375 They're, they're the most important thing at, at the company. 00:46:07.635 --> 00:46:16.445 Like, for the companies I've worked for so far in my career is we can't fully build these widgets, these tools, these life-saving devices without people. 00:46:16.585 --> 00:46:17.695 It takes them first. 00:46:17.995 --> 00:46:22.315 So they're of, to me, the most-- utmost importance, um, regardless of level. 00:46:22.715 --> 00:46:25.475 Uh, we all put our, you know, pants on one leg at a time, I think. 00:46:25.475 --> 00:46:26.705 I don't jump in two at a time. 00:46:26.705 --> 00:46:28.576 Sorry if, if other people do. 00:46:29.015 --> 00:46:31.045 And it's build that relationship. 00:46:31.105 --> 00:46:32.465 We all have lives outside of work. 00:46:32.505 --> 00:46:34.275 We all have different stresses and pressures. 00:46:34.705 --> 00:46:40.525 Um, and how can we come together a-after we walk through those doors and, and get something

done meaningful as a team? 00:46:43.315 --> 00:46:44.215 Sorry to pass you that. 00:46:44.215 --> 00:46:44.815 Sorry, Aaron. 00:46:45.255 --> 00:46:51.395 Um, I, I, I just something quickly, 'cause, uh, what, what Nate just mentioned, not sure if you remember this, Nate. 00:46:51.826 --> 00:46:55.425 When he went his interview on company B, 00:46:55.538 --> 00:46:55.759 Ага. 00:46:57.185 --> 00:47:01.775 g- he, he got interviewed by somebody who had a very strong influence on the hiring process. 00:47:02.125 --> 00:47:09.285 Somebody, somebody, somebody very senior that had and, and grown his, his stripes in the organization. 00:47:09.465 --> 00:47:21.415 Um, and, and, uh, I asked him to, uh, interview Nate because his, his opinion was gonna be very, very positive across the board because we were looking for the right leader. 00:47:21.415 --> 00:47:26.805 So long story short, um, he only asked Nate one, one question, and that's it. 00:47:26.805 --> 00:47:29.475 And he asked him, "Tell me, Nate…" Well, do you remember that, Nate? 00:47:30.195 --> 00:47:31.365 Do, do you wanna speak, uh, do, do you 00:47:31.693 --> 00:47:32.113 go ahead. 00:47:32.113 --> 00:47:32.833 I don't remember 00:47:33.285 --> 00:47:34.235 well, he asked you. 00:47:34.835 --> 00:47:40.255 He went and, and talked to you and, and I think, uh, this person came out from the interview maybe 15 minutes. 00:47:40.255 --> 00:47:50.465 It was a brief interview and whatnot, and, and he went to my desk and he said, you know, him." and, and I, and I remember c- do, do you mind sharing how the conversation went? 00:47:50.465 --> 00:48:09.445 And he would say, "Tony, I only asked him one thing. 'Tell me what's the most important thing for you as a manager, as a leader?'" And Nate said, "People." It's exactly what the answer he provided to you and whatnot. And, and, and I remember this guy say, "Well, he heard him say something about, you know, such and such. 00:48:09.515 --> 00:48:31.815 He went to sugarcoating it," "I'll tell you, Tony, don't bring another person like that in the organization." So anyways, that only speaks about, you know, how Nate, uh, had already, you know, his own perception on what a, uh, the true asset of an organization is, and he was very truthful to his beliefs and he, you know, pretty much exposed it on an interview. 00:48:31.815 --> 00:48:32.955 So kudos to you, Nate. 00:48:33.143 --> 00:48:33.463 Sweet. 00:48:34.643 --> 00:48:35.683 Spoiler alert, I got that job. 00:48:36.332 --> 00:48:43.062 Uh, as, as we're all talking, um, a book comes to mind. 00:48:43.062 --> 00:48:51.062 There's a book called Culture Code by, uh, Daniel Coyle, I think the author is, and it's one of the best books I've ever read about culture. 00:48:51.112 --> 00:49:01.552 And he boils it down to three pillars upon which good culture is built, and they're, uh, build safety, share vulnerability, and establish purpose. 00:49:01.913 --> 00:49:08.252 And, and I feel like I've heard all three

of those things discussed between the stories, uh, that, that the two of you are sharing. 00:49:08.562 --> 00:49:11.742 Um, I wonder, maybe we… Uh, could we go around the table here? 00:49:12.002 --> 00:49:19.192 And if you can think of one story that you could share that exemplifies or illustrates one of those principles. 00:49:19.192 --> 00:49:26.242 build safety, share vulnerability, and establish purpose. 00:49:27.072 --> 00:49:32.922 I think that would be educational to the audience if we could all share one story around one of those topics. 00:49:33.902 --> 00:49:35.582 I'll, I'll, I'll go first. 00:49:35.672 --> 00:49:37.392 Uh, the two of you can think a little bit. 00:49:37.852 --> 00:49:46.308 So I remember when, uh, this is sh-share vulnerability, and I've run Pipeline for seventeen years now. 00:49:46.528 --> 00:49:48.938 In the very beginning, I was the individual contributor. 00:49:48.968 --> 00:49:51.538 I was the one doing everything because it was just me. 00:49:51.978 --> 00:49:57.168 And then I started hiring people, and I needed to learn how to become a manager, and that was new for me. 00:49:57.168 --> 00:49:59.518 I hadn't done, uh, that type of work. 00:49:59.878 --> 00:50:17.958 Uh, and, uh, I, I think one of my maybe inherent skills is I'm very comfortable being vulnerable, and, and Nate you men-mentioned that, uh, people seem to want to, uh, be comfortable sharing, uh, their truths with me, and maybe that's because I'm very comfortable being vulnerable myself. 00:50:18.048 --> 00:50:26.428 So I, I was managing this, uh, very junior engineer just a year or two out of school, and we were working on a project together. 00:50:26.458 --> 00:50:30.688 I was still doing some of the design work at that point, and I had finished my design, right? 00:50:30.688 --> 00:50:35.018 Here I am, owner of the company, you know, very senior engineer at that point. 00:50:35.018 --> 00:50:42.928 It was probably, you know, ten plus years, a dozen years running Pipeline, plus the, the previous time I'd been working as an engineer at other companies. 00:50:43.259 --> 00:50:44.318 So I finished my design. 00:50:44.318 --> 00:50:44.588 Great. 00:50:44.628 --> 00:50:45.318 Good to go. 00:50:45.378 --> 00:50:46.009 It's locked in. 00:50:46.038 --> 00:50:47.738 This is ready for production. 00:50:48.088 --> 00:51:07.738 And this very junior engineer, uh, thankfully happened to look at my design and, and review it and caught what should have been an obvious mistake that I didn't see and came to me and was like, "Hey." And you could tell that, like, he wasn't really sure how he should approach me about this. 00:51:07.738 --> 00:51:13.228 A very junior engineer, owner of the company, senior engineer d-d-doing this for a long time. 00:51:13.228 --> 00:51:20.118 He said, "I, I think this… I think you may have made a mistake here." And I looked at it and I was like, "Oh, you're absolutely right. 00:51:20.398 --> 00:51:22.259 Thank you so much for catching

this. 00:51:22.298 --> 00:51:23.438 You're, you're totally right. 00:51:23.488 --> 00:51:35.038 I… That was a big mistake that would have caused huge problems." And I was just very vulnerable about the fact that I'd made a big mistake, a, a, a large oversight and, and he caught it. 00:51:35.338 --> 00:51:41.408 And he told me later on that after that interaction, he's like, "Oh, okay. 00:51:41.448 --> 00:51:57.648 It's, it's okay for me to, uh, you know, bring up hard conversations or things that might be a little awkward." I felt very safe after that interaction, just being honest and, and, you know, saying what, what needed to be said, always in a respectful way, of course. 00:51:57.648 --> 00:52:07.528 But that to me was like, oh, okay, yeah, being vulnerable really does encourage the, the right behaviors and, and that's a way to help your team feel safe around you. 00:52:08.198 --> 00:52:09.608 That's That's, my story. 00:52:09.957 --> 00:52:12.487 sounds like you avoided the virgin and close with that one, right? 00:52:12.597 --> 00:52:12.937 So 00:52:14.047 --> 00:52:17.954 Ja यो न को नै? 00:52:18.007 --> 00:52:19.217 Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll go. 00:52:19.247 --> 00:52:23.647 So, uh, a time that comes to mind, I'm gonna call out safety. 00:52:24.877 --> 00:52:28.967 and this is kinda product safety, people safety, process safety. 00:52:29.457 --> 00:52:40.307 Um, a-- I don't know, had an incident where we were having some operators with some very low yield at an operation, uh, for a certain defect. 00:52:40.987 --> 00:52:48.027 And as we go in, w-we find out that this is a non-human use, this is just development stuff, right? 00:52:48.027 --> 00:52:50.297 So no, no people were impacted in, in this story. 00:52:51.607 --> 00:52:56.538 we go in and, and we discover that they're not necessarily following all the steps in the procedure. 00:52:57.157 --> 00:53:08.047 So we're like, "Okay, we need to retrain, um, and actually follow the procedure." In doing so, we found out, as I was m-myself with the team, this isn't just-- this is a team thing here. 00:53:08.087 --> 00:53:19.057 We-- They wouldn't even have been able to perform that operation had they followed the one just prior to the letter of the procedure, because it would've made them build a bad product altogether, a completely unusable product. 00:53:19.677 --> 00:53:23.857 So, um, this is where I, I stepped up from a safety standpoint. 00:53:23.897 --> 00:53:24.887 I shut the line down. 00:53:25.297 --> 00:53:31.457 Said, "Sorry, no more." Um, my leader was actually very, uh, supportive. 00:53:32.167 --> 00:53:40.407 Um, I did get some scrutiny from an engineer in the entire-- in front of the entire cleanroom, including my staff, because I went toe-to-toe with them. 00:53:40.867 --> 00:53:47.397 Had the support of my leader and other leaders in the company who I guess really liked me in the interview process. 00:53:47.747 --> 00:54:05.467 Um, and we were able to get all the engineers to help review, revamp all the procedures, and then they supported the retrain of all the operators because there was too many operators, too many processes, too many things to do just to leave it on my supervisors and my leads. 00:54:05.827 --> 00:54:13.397 Um, and my technicians weren't available for… I think some were helping, uh, 'cause they had like a technical trainer background, but not everyone could support. 00:54:13.397 --> 00:54:16.607 Some were just equipment-based technicians and not able to train to an SOP. 00:54:17.267 --> 00:54:19.937 So it took, it took a village. 00:54:20.097 --> 00:54:21.507 There was some, there was some scrutiny. 00:54:21.507 --> 00:54:23.657 There was like one person in particular, right? 00:54:24.457 --> 00:54:28.617 we made it through, and we did what was the right thing for the business, and it's still in the patient. 00:54:28.697 --> 00:54:31.557 It, it, you know, hadn't been a commercial product, it was still in development. 00:54:32.047 --> 00:54:40.427 Um, but I, I s- I still had the full support from the people that really mattered, from a being able to get the work done standpoint. 00:54:40.647 --> 00:54:44.007 So that, that was something that stands out in my mind 00:54:44.972 --> 00:54:48.502 That must have been a, a scary decision to make, to shut down a line 00:54:49.101 --> 00:54:49.751 Yeah. 00:54:49.821 --> 00:55:01.801 Um, and one where we were really-- there had been a lot of time, money, and energy, you know, invested into developing a new product, um, something that's very new to the company, um, a new therapy that hadn't been available before. 00:55:01.801 --> 00:55:05.271 It also wasn't like a next gen. It was like first of kind for this company. 00:55:06.071 --> 00:55:10.531 Um, of people, a lot of money, a lot of talent had gone into developing this. 00:55:10.761 --> 00:55:21.481 So to, to shut it down right before we're coming to critical phase gates and be like, "Nah, we, we need to do a little bit more on the line," wasn't an easy thing. 00:55:21.611 --> 00:55:28.961 You know, i-in the wrong, in the wrong company, it could have been a CLM, you know, career limiting move despite all the real reasons to do it 00:55:30.584 --> 00:55:30.714 Wow. 00:55:30.804 --> 00:55:31.474 Great story. 00:55:31.484 --> 00:55:32.154 Thank you for sharing 00:55:32.631 --> 00:55:32.981 Yeah 00:55:34.047 --> 00:55:34.877 Yeah, no, thank you, Chet. 00:55:34.937 --> 00:55:40.387 Um, so I think I'm gonna speak about also something similar, uh, Aaron, about being vulnerable. 00:55:40.887 --> 00:55:48.677 This goes back to, uh, my early days, uh, as a group lead on, uh, uh, a small engineering team. 00:55:49.497 --> 00:55:53.797 Um, this is way, way back before I met Nate. 00:55:54.457 --> 00:56:08.947 Um, I was, uh, overseeing maybe three engineers at that point of time, young engineers and so forth, and we were working on a project to, uh, overcome a geo situation that all of a sudden spiked up very

aggressively and so on and so forth. 00:56:10.127 --> 00:56:26.017 And, um, some of those engineers were pretty much, you know, taking the lead on executing X, Y, and so forth, and I was pretty much, uh, almost on a coaching type of things, overseeing my own responsibilities, but making sure that they were on top of things and whatnot. 00:56:26.777 --> 00:56:44.637 I remember one, one instance on that particular situation where, um, they were bringing, uh, information in front of me to help them make a decision and, and we went through the process and whatnot, and we decided to say, "Let's, let's make this happen," so forth. 00:56:44.647 --> 00:56:49.427 So remember they went ahead and made some changes to the process and whatnot. 00:56:49.437 --> 00:56:54.417 They pretty much the level on and said, "Just go ahead, and just everything is done," and so forth. 00:56:55.327 --> 00:57:14.219 hours after that, the, uh, line supervisor called me and said, "You know what? Things just got so worse that I had to shut down the line." And, uh, so I remember just going back to the exercise and then bringing the team back into a conference room and understand, you know, what happened. 00:57:15.429 --> 00:57:23.719 And, and one of the first things that we went through is let's go back and check the information that we had that led us to make the recommendation and make something happen. 00:57:24.529 --> 00:57:41.569 And, um, one of the engineers pretty much, uh, brought up the fact that, uh, the way that I interpreted the information that they showed me, uh, wasn't necessarily the most accurate because they ended up taking this lead this way and so forth. 00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:49.980 Uh, but the way that the engineer brought it to my attention was in a very respectful way, very concise and so forth, and it hit me. 00:57:50.039 --> 00:58:07.250 You know, I said, "Listen, uh, that's, that's, that's true. You know, I, I should have asked you guys X, Y, and Z, hence forth going this direction and why not." Um, I felt bad because I misled my team in providing the right-- sorry, in the wrong direction. 00:58:08.329 --> 00:58:17.149 I recognized the opportunity not only for me, but for everybody on that room to learn the fact that, listen, as a leader, things can happen. 00:58:17.429 --> 00:58:26.909 And if I don't put the right attention and ask the right things, you know, we can all go down and blindside ourselves and make something like what just happened with an impact to the organization. 00:58:27.730 --> 00:58:39.619 it was a good exercise to understand that, um, as leaders, we have to be mindful of how things are presented to ourselves and how we need to ask the right questions and so forth. 00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:59.369 Um, I can always argue in my defense, I was very early in my career leading people, but I took a point, a very hard point on the fact that, uh, remember from that point forward, every time I sat down with folks, and, and they can remember this, we would go through information so exhaust to make sure that we all feel comfortable. 00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:06.549 It's not about kicking the dead horse, it's making sure that you have the right information at the right time, and we all feel comfortable with the right decision. 00:59:06.569 --> 00:59:10.949 And, and that to me was a good lesson learned, and, and I, and I treasure those kind of experiences. 00:59:12.352 --> 00:59:19.102 There's such important opportunities as a leader when, when you make a mistake, right? 00:59:19.362 --> 00:59:41.302 Uh, of course, we don't want to make mistakes, but when we do, I think we have to take advantage of them as an opportunity to be vulnerable in front of our team and show our team that,"Hey, it- it's okay to make a mistake." It's not okay to try and cover up that mistake or, or pretend it didn't happen or, or reduce the significance of it, right? 00:59:41.552 --> 01:00:07.952 Um, and that just builds a, a environment of psychological safety where the whole team now says, "Oh, okay. Tony was comfortable being vulnerable, admitting maybe an oversight. Uh, Aaron admitted to me that he made this mistake, and, and now I just feel so much safer admitting my own mistakes." And, and, you know, that's, that's really how good business happens is that honesty prevails. 01:00:08.847 --> 01:00:08.897 Yeah. 01:00:09.887 --> 01:00:10.267 That's funny 01:00:11.593 --> 01:00:11.863 I agree. 01:00:11.903 --> 01:00:12.083 And totally agree. 01:00:12.083 --> 01:00:21.273 And, and something that I think you mentioned earlier, Erin, uh, I feel that having the right working culture allows people to truly enjoy that kind of activities. 01:00:21.313 --> 01:00:41.123 'Cause if y- if you feel that your leadership is creating a stressful environment, that you don't have the opportunity to be truth to an error, to, to a wrong decision, you're gonna get just nailed back and put in the spot and when that… People are not just gonna go out and, you know, be proactively learning from those experiences. 01:00:41.153 --> 01:00:44.273 'Cause they're just gonna say,"You know, listen, this is gonna just screw up my career. 01:00:44.603 --> 01:01:03.134 You know, might as well just put it in a different perspective." So the work culture that the leader creates, I think, is able to promote those kind of behaviors and those kind of, uh, um, events for people to take advantage and see them as an opportunity for growth, not necessarily to detrimental for their own performance 01:01:03.382 --> 01:01:03.782 Right. 01:01:03.902 --> 01:01:04.172 Yep. 01:01:04.592 --> 01:01:05.302 Absolutely. 01:01:06.302 --> 01:01:06.722 All right. 01:01:06.722 --> 01:01:08.512 Well, guys, this has been awesome. 01:01:08.522 --> 01:01:09.292 So much fun. 01:01:09.722 --> 01:01:11.562 Um, we'll wrap things up now. 01:01:11.562 --> 01:01:20.752 Tony, before we go, now, uh, can you talk a little bit about what, what you're doing now, and also how people can get

in touch with you? 01:01:22.431 --> 01:01:23.031 Yeah, definitely. 01:01:23.031 --> 01:01:31.041 So I'm currently, um, overseeing my own company, uh, consulting-wise called, uh, Nexellence Engineering Solutions, NES. 01:01:32.331 --> 01:01:38.351 it's a company intended to provide consulting to organizations primarily in the manufacturing environment. 01:01:39.381 --> 01:01:51.231 most of my experience, uh, 30 years have been in the medical device manufacturing, but I've also providing support to other industries such as automotive, aerospace, and whatnot. 01:01:51.761 --> 01:02:02.192 So some of the things that I bring to the table to an organization is help them, uh, maximize the intellectual property they already have. 01:02:02.241 --> 01:02:17.151 And by that, I mean help them better strategize, better, um, prioritize projects particular coaching to, you know, outlining, you know, the way that they normally do things could be different. 01:02:17.561 --> 01:02:29.831 Providing training on, you know, uh, uh, practices for problem-solving, for a different-- creating a different change mentality on how to tackle situations and whatnot. 01:02:30.701 --> 01:02:41.711 Understanding best practices on a, uh, controlled environment such as medical devices and so forth, strategies for validation and whatnot. 01:02:41.711 --> 01:02:48.801 So, uh, a lot of training in my end, a lot of coaching, uh, but it all starts by understanding the issues and the necessities. 01:02:49.231 --> 01:02:50.811 Uh, and that's something that I enjoy a lot. 01:02:50.851 --> 01:02:59.442 Sometimes, uh, not necessarily ends up being an interaction with a company's leaders have been deal for me to work with them. 01:02:59.511 --> 01:03:03.621 It's, it's an experience for me to learn what's-- what else is going on in the industry. 01:03:03.891 --> 01:03:07.451 So to me, that's a win-win, and I always get the best out of that, believe me. 01:03:08.140 --> 01:03:08.701 Terrific. 01:03:08.730 --> 01:03:10.870 And, and what's the best way for people to get ahold of you? 01:03:12.384 --> 01:03:12.563 Yeah. 01:03:12.563 --> 01:03:12.923 Thank you. 01:03:12.923 --> 01:03:17.003 And so, uh, I have my website and I-I'll, I'll share it in your podcast. 01:03:17.343 --> 01:03:21.543 Uh, my website has, uh, all my contact information. 01:03:21.583 --> 01:03:32.643 You can shoot me an email directly to valadez2000@gmail.com, and I'm more than happy just to, you know, sit down and go through situation you wanna bring to the table. 01:03:32.663 --> 01:03:40.583 Doesn't necessarily have to have a business perspective, just entertaining the idea of hearing the problem, hearing the situation that they're experiencing. 01:03:40.963 --> 01:03:43.013 More than happy to present scenarios. 01:03:43.213 --> 01:03:46.493 Whether that ends up being a business in a way, that's a different story. 01:03:46.493 --> 01:03:50.063 But just, you know, sharing the experience itself, that's where it all starts. 01:03:50.742 --> 01:03:51.222 Wonderful. 01:03:51.232 --> 01:03:56.302 And we will have a link to your website in the show notes of this episode for sure. 01:03:56.712 --> 01:03:57.163 All right. 01:03:57.552 --> 01:04:02.142 All right, well, Nate, Tony, uh, so delightful talking with both of you. 01:04:02.392 --> 01:04:12.682 Um, I, I can just feel the respect that you have for one another, and what a joy it is to just experience, uh, deep respect between two friends and, and coworkers. 01:04:13.062 --> 01:04:14.562 That's what life is all about, right? 01:04:14.972 --> 01:04:17.802 Um, people loving people. 01:04:17.822 --> 01:04:19.122 There, it's that word again. 01:04:19.152 --> 01:04:20.052 You can't say it. 01:04:20.092 --> 01:04:20.892 Don't say it. 01:04:21.017 --> 01:04:21.927 I love love. 01:04:25.172 --> 01:04:30.812 All right, guys, well, thank you so much again for being, uh, on the podcast and, and spending some of your precious time with me today. 01:04:31.313 --> 01:04:32.213 Yeah, I appreciate you. 01:04:32.533 --> 01:04:35.083 Um, I will give myself a shout-out at the very end. 01:04:35.083 --> 01:04:35.693 If you're lookin', if 01:04:35.756 --> 01:04:36.396 Please 01:04:36.803 --> 01:04:39.763 to connect with Nate Post, find me on LinkedIn, Nate Post. 01:04:40.093 --> 01:04:44.573 Uh, I got a face only a mother can love and my wife, so you'll, you'll recognize this mug real quick. 01:04:44.923 --> 01:04:50.743 Um, so you can connect with me there and, uh, you'll, you'll see all the side hustles I'm into and things I love. 01:04:50.763 --> 01:04:51.103 So, 01:04:51.574 --> 01:04:55.324 And Nate, Nate has a cool side hustle that he's been doing for quite a long time. 01:04:55.334 --> 01:04:56.414 Well, I won't spoil it. 01:04:56.414 --> 01:04:59.564 You'll have to go to LinkedIn to find it, but it's worth checking out 01:04:59.821 --> 01:05:00.701 over a decade. 01:05:00.991 --> 01:05:03.491 Aaron, it's always a pleasure connecting with you. 01:05:03.661 --> 01:05:07.661 Tony, I mean, it's been a few years since I had the pleasure of reporting to you. 01:05:08.031 --> 01:05:12.491 Um, I mean, feels like we were just work just two minutes ago, right? 01:05:12.491 --> 01:05:17.871 Like, we're … Felt like we're right back in the trenches, so I appreciate your friendship and your leadership over the years. 01:05:18.291 --> 01:05:21.701 Looking forward to hearing more stories on how your consulting is going. 01:05:21.701 --> 01:05:27.801 And uh, you're, you're my camp counselor buddy, so when you're back in Utah, let's, let's go out for dinner. 01:05:28.812 --> 01:05:29.292 Done. 01:05:29.532 --> 01:05:29.952 Deal. 01:05:30.032 --> 01:05:30.352 Yeah. 01:05:30.463 --> 01:05:31.123 Thank you. 01:05:31.152 --> 01:05:31.902 All right, guys. 01:05:31.952 --> 01:05:32.252 Thanks a lot 01:05:32.453 --> 01:05:32.893 Appreciate. 01:05:32.893 --> 01:05:33.223 Thank you 01:05:33.438 --> 01:05:33.598 Uh-huh 01:05:34.093 --> 01:05:34.333 Have a nice one 01:05:34.738 --> 01:05:35.259 Yeah, you too.