บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Ep 58 The Santa for Nerds & Coach for Creatives Conversation with Paul Pape

costume, but I really found my way in scenic design and properties design. 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:28.879 And that actually led to a few really good awards and really good opportunities, and they just kind of opened up a lot of doors. 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:34.240 And uh that's really where the the beginnings of the creative path for me started. 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.680 What what was the first show that you designed for? 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.199 The first one was called Once on This Island. 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:42.959 It's a musical takes place. 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:49.680 It's an it's basically built on a Caribbean island, and there's there's mythology in it. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.560 Uh eventually one of the characters turns into a tree. 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:57.920 And I just love I love creating magic in places where magic shouldn't exist. 00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:59.680 So it was one of my one of my favorites. 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:05.920 It was a very much a black and white set until she turns into a tree, and then all of this color just sprouts from everything. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.600 It was a really, really beautiful design. 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:08.639 Oh wow. 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:09.360 Wow. 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:18.959 So from there, where you know, learning front of the house, back of the house, technical, where where did it go from there? 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:29.199 From there, it I so that was undergrad, and then I basically I had won a couple of awards that had taken me to the national stage, which was really nice. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.399 It was uh, there's a festival called the American College Theater Festival. 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:37.600 And from there, I was able to basically find a graduates program to go into. 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:45.600 And so I I went to the University of California, San Diego, and I got my degree in scenic and and costume design. 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:53.040 The irony is that I think it was two weeks after I had graduated, I was assisting this guy uh who was a designer for Broadway. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:58.800 And he had, I think at this time, either four or six shows on Broadway, which for a scenic designer is pretty apex. 00:06:58.879 --> 00:06:59.920 That's pretty top of the game. 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:00.240 Right. 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:05.040 And I was assisting him on a show, and I had asked him, I said, So what's it like? 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:10.079 Because I just graduated with a degree in this, and I and I wanted to know, you know, you you're pretty much at the top of your game. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:11.759 What's it like doing this? 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.240 And to this day, I'll give him credit for being honest. 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:15.360 He said, It's horrible. 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.040 I hate every bit of it. 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:22.560 His his issue was that he says, I'm I'm on the road 46 to 48 weeks a year. 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:24.800 I never sleep in the same bed twice. 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:26.720 I pay for an apartment I'm never in. 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:32.480 He says, if you want to settle down and actually like have a life, this is not the the career for you. 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:40.480 And I was like, wow, I wish he had told me this before I went to grad school for this, but you know, it was it was a really good, honest take on it. 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.879 And so I got my degree about two weeks later, I decided I wasn't gonna do that anymore. 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:50.319 And I just I was kind of a lost, a lost wanderer at that point. 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:57.279 I had invented a product because I was as a scenic designer, you build a lot of models for the set that you're gonna put on stage. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:03.920 And I was working on this show called I Am My Own Wife, which ended up, it was a workshop show, but I had designed the set for it. 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.439 And we didn't think anything of it. 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.199 It ended up going on to win Pulitzer Prizes, being on Broadway, the whole nine yards. 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:10.480 It was like a really big deal. 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:13.199 But I was working on this show and it was all about furniture. 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:18.560 And so I had to hand cut a hundred tiny pieces of furniture out of cardstock. 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.399 And I was halfway through it, I was like, there has got to be a better way to do this. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:31.519 And so I actually was at the grocery store and I was looking for a card for Mother's Day, and I saw that there were these cards that had this beautiful lacework pattern cut out of it. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:32.960 I was like, well, how did they do that? 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:41.120 And I, you know, so I started digging into it, and I, and this is back in the late 90s before everybody had everything, you know, handed to them like they do now. 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.679 And basically what I found is they had lasered it out. 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:51.120 And so I found the company that did it through Hallmark, and I was talking to them about it, and I said, Would you guys be able to do tiny furniture? 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:57.039 So I designed a bunch of laser die-cut furniture that you could then just fold and put together. 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:58.240 And that was my first product. 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.519 And so I kind of launched into that business instead of following, you know, the whole scenic design route. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.080 And then while it was happening, I my wife got tired of living in LA trying to do the movie thing. 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:09.200 She's a costume designer. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.639 And so we decided to move to Nebraska where her family is. 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:16.960 And so I was like, well, what can I do here while I'm waiting for the pop-out furniture to take off?

00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:22.720 And my old undergrad reached out and said, Would you like to be a professor to actually teach design? 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:24.799 Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, sure, I'll give it a try. 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:26.879 And so went and did that for three years. 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:28.080 I love teaching. 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:32.240 I hate the bureaucracy that goes with being in a university. 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.360 So it did not last as long as I think that they had hoped. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:36.480 I was there for about three years. 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:46.480 And it was in that last year I was teaching a class, and one of my students, I don't know if you're familiar with the Nintendo Wii that came out in about 2005, 2006. 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:51.759 Yes, I think I waited in the snow in a snowstorm at 5 a.m. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.879 outside of a Target to get a Wii that Christmas. 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.399 So you do recall it. 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:56.879 Okay. 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.240 So they have these avatars in them called me's. 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:06.000 And the student asked me, hey, can you make a me of myself and my girlfriend so I can give it to her as a gift? 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.200 And I was like, ah, sure, why not? 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:08.879 And I charge them like 50 bucks, I think. 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:09.600 And I gave it to him. 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:19.519 And what I didn't know is that he had put it, he had basically submitted it to a blog called Super Punch at the time and included all of my contact information. 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.679 And I started getting requests to this hundreds of them. 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:31.120 And I ended up making more money on the side than I was as a professor, and I liked the creative freedom that I had with designing these sculptures. 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:31.440 Right. 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:36.000 So I asked my wife, I said, Can I quit being a professor and try to be an artist full time? 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:37.840 Because you know that's gonna work out. 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.080 And she's like, I'll give you one year. 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:41.279 And I was like, okay, cool. 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.159 And then I think it was three or four months later, I had an idea, still tied to the Nintendo Wii. 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:47.360 It was for Valentine's Day. 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:54.879 It was, they were called chocolate mi's, and it was a little Wii-shaped box that had two chocolates in it, uh, either guy and a girl, guy and a guy, girl and a girl, didn't matter. 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.320 And white chocolate, look at white chocolate, milk chocolate, or dark chocolate. 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.120 And you could, but they were basically like mi chocolates. 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.039 And on the box it said, We beg we belong together, you and me. 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.039 And it was W I I and M-I-I. 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:12.320 And we sold six thousand boxes in two weeks. 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:14.000 Oh my gosh. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:31.360 Yeah, and it was highlight, but it was also a low well, a low level because that was also the year the Eastern Seaboard on Valentine's Day or the day before had a horrible ice storm, and they lost about a thousand boxes of my chocolates for Valentine's Day. 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:39.120 And the amount of emails and phone calls that I got from angry New Yorkers and people from New Jersey was not great. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.360 But it, you know, I earned$50,000 in six weeks. 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:48.320 And my wife is like, I think you've got an idea here, and just keep running with it. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:49.519 And so that was the story. 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:56.240 That was, and then 20 years later, here I am, and I'm working for all of those companies designing and fabricating stuff for them. 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:57.360 It's been a lot of fun. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:59.120 That is insane. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:00.559 Wow. 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:02.720 I had no idea. 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.639 Yeah, it's it's it's been an interesting journey. 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.480 I I'm a firm believer in the phrase bend don't break. 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.399 I could have stayed very firm on being a scenic designer and been miserable. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:20.240 I could have stuck with pop-out furniture, which kind of died on its own because then the personal laser came out. 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:25.679 So you could start lasering at home as opposed to using the warehouse-sized laser that I was using for my furniture. 00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:28.879 And then I could have been a college professor and miserable for years. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:36.480 I could have just made Nintendo Mies as sculptures, but then that kind of went away because the new gaming systems came out. 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.440 So what happened is people just started asking for anything. 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.120 And I was like, why not? 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:41.759 Why not? 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:43.039 You know, I'll I'll make this. 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:51.360 And now I've become known as Santa for Nerds, as the guy who can make anything you want, just you just wish for it and it happens. 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.600 And so it's built a good career out of it. 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:56.879 Yeah, I was gonna say, I want to get to the Santa for nerds. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:06.559 What are some of, besides the the me chocolates, what are some of the things that helped go into earning your name, Santa for nerds? 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:16.559 I think the like as far as individual product, what's weird is when you start a business, especially creative business, typically you have a product and then you you build that one product and you sell that one product. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.039 My product was I

will make you anything you want, and I don't have any overhead. 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.639 So this is kind of why I I know this is an audio-only podcast, but if you look behind me, this is called the nerd wall. 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:28.879 All the things that you see behind me are the things that I make. 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:37.279 And I have made thousands of individually created objects for people and companies all around the world. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:45.440 And so I and I I mean, some of my favorites I've made people frozen in carbonite, uh like I call them custom carbonites, like on Star Wars. 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:46.080 I've made those. 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:47.120 They were, they were fun. 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:54.879 I made, I took rocks from a game called World of Warcraft, because in the game you can mine ore as part of just a thing. 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:59.519 And they had this beautiful purple and sparkly ore called Corium ornaments. 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.639 And I was like, oh, what if I made uh corian ore? 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:04.720 And I was like, what if I made Christmas ornaments? 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:13.840 And I called them O-R-Enaments, and it was like, so I can make World of War Warcraft ornaments, and then I sold like a three-pack of those and just like really random things. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.080 But then it it really came. 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:23.519 I think the thing that really made me ex the most excited about the design is when I started getting into custom engagement ring boxes. 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:40.240 And this would be really nerdy, geeky people like myself who like they fell in love or they met through something that was nerdy, be it Harry Potter or a video game or Star Wars or you name it, some geekdom that they've fallen into. 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:47.600 And they wanted me to create a ring box that was also representative of that nerddom. 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:55.440 And all of my ring boxes are called hidden ring boxes because when you get something from me, it looks just like a cool collectible from that. 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.559 What you don't know is hidden inside of it is the engagement ring. 00:14:58.720 --> 00:14:59.200 The ring, yeah. 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.159 And I've made probably a thousand different kinds. 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.919 And what people love is so exciting to me. 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.799 And I I try my best to add a little bit of magic. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.679 I used to work a little bit with David Copperfield, so like actually doing magic is really fun for me. 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:14.159 Oh wow. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:21.759 And so hiding those little things inside of these boxes that look like one thing but are actually end up being something else is something I just really love to do. 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:22.080 Yeah. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:32.320 Well, and and being involved in something as special as a proposal or an

engagement, and and and you're a hallmark of that. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:37.679 You're actually tying together the whole reason these two people are together. 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:38.320 Right. 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.159 My wife, my wife calls it, I make memories tangible, which I love. 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.240 I love that. 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:52.320 Because when you propose, it's a very intimate thing that typically isn't recorded or or doesn't have anything that you can reflect back on. 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:59.440 And what I do is I take that and I create a permanent object, you know, a tangible memory that you can have on your shelf. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.639 And every time you look at it, you're like, remember that that's where we met. 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:08.320 That represents this brief moment in time because we celebrate the weddings, we celebrate the children, we celebrate all those things. 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:13.919 But that one moment when we really come together and we make that commitment to each other, that that's it's a fleeting moment. 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:19.679 Like I proposed my wife in Rome in a dingy hotel because we were in between doing these things. 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.960 We had been walking all day, her hands were swollen, couldn't get the ring on there. 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:24.879 It was kind of a kind of a mess. 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.440 And but it wasn't like a fancy ring box or anything like that. 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:28.559 It was just in my pocket. 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:34.559 And I was like, it's not something that I don't really have a representation of it all those years later. 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:36.240 But uh renewal. 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.759 You can do a bow renewal. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:38.559 There you go. 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:39.360 There you go. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:42.399 That would be that would be fun. 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.840 That's awesome. 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:49.919 So how did folks know that that you offered these services? 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:51.840 How did they get in touch with you? 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:58.399 So I think I got lucky in that I started when the internet was pretty new. 00:16:58.480 --> 00:16:59.519 I'm I'm 50 years old. 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.120 I've been doing this for a while. 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.599 And what I did is I'd post every single thing that I made online. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.480 And this is before everybody had social media. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.039 Um this is in the days before YouTube and all of that. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:12.720 And so I would post it on my blog. 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:19.759 And then basically what happened is the things that I make are really cute and they're very iconic to like nerddums. 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.000 And so what happened is other people started putting them on. 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:27.839 I don't have a Pinterest account, but I am huge on

Pinterest because a lot of people find my stuff and put it out there. 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:35.920 And then people started like BuzzFeed started making lists of the 10 geekiest ring boxes that are out there, or 10 geeky wedding cake toppers. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.480 And I'm usually six to eight of those. 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.839 So what would happen is people then would like research. 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.319 It's like, oh, I I'm I really love a Star Wars themed engagement. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.359 You know, is where can I get a Star Wars themed ring box? 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:55.680 And because I was one of two people that was doing it at all, and that guy's even dropped out at this point. 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.599 I'm just the guy who's associated with it. 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.160 And so, and and that was before everybody had 3D printers and stuff. 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:01.359 I was doing it all by hand. 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:09.119 But now that 3D printers have become more prolific, I just happened to get in early enough that I've I've just was able to establish a name for myself. 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:09.680 Yeah. 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:23.440 I was gonna ask, you know, when we when we started going in this direction, have 3D printers affected your business, or are you just that good that it can't be replicated by somebody's 3D printer at home? 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:31.599 This year alone, I have decided to release my own, because I use 3D printers to make my stuff, but I design everything by hand. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:33.680 And I never released the designs. 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:35.440 And this year I decided I would release them. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:44.559 So I have 630 individual designs that are very nerdy and geeky that I've decided to release to the to the public so that other people can make them. 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.640 But everything that I do is unique to myself and I spend a lot of time designing it. 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:55.599 And being a set designer and a prop designer in theater really helped to play into that because it allowed me to be as versatile as I could. 00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:03.039 And so uh, but I, you know, I started off originally sculpting everything by hand or doing woodworking or metal working, all of it is very manual labor. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:08.880 But then as the 3D printers came out, I was there when they first started dropping out or, you know, becoming a thing. 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:19.759 And so, you know, my my first designs were really rough like everyone else's, but I've been able since I was there at the beginning to really refine it and use those tools to help me to make the pieces. 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.480 And I don't, like I said, I don't like to mass produce things. 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.400 I like them to be very unique to the people. 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.079 And so a lot of the parts that I designed were very much one-offs. 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.960 But occasionally I'll get like the sorting hat from Harry Potter is a very popular ring box for me. 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.359 I've probably made 40 or 50 of them. 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.480 And so that's actually ended up being one that I didn't actually 3D print it. 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:39.519 I created a mold of it. 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:47.279 I made one sculpt, and then I just cast it in a different material over and over again, and then finish them all off by hand to make them a little bit more unique. 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.920 But yeah, the 3D printers help a little bit. 00:19:50.480 --> 00:20:01.440 What's the downside of the 3D printing is that because a lot of people have them in their homes, they recognize that it doesn't cost a lot of money to 3D print stuff, and it doesn't. 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:08.000 So when it comes to the design cost, they're like, Oh, I'd like to buy a ring box, and I'm like, Okay, it's you know, it's five, six hundred dollars. 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.279 They're like, But you're just 3D printing it and I can do that for 20 bucks. 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.039 I'm like, Yeah, but you can't design it for 20 bucks, and that's what you're paying for. 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:15.519 Yeah. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.680 And so that's that's probably been the biggest issue that I've had with the 3D printing, is that people now think everything is super cheap. 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:22.400 Right. 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:33.359 But what I teach in with with Gamify business, one of the things that I teach is that you're you're selling ideation and creation, you're not selling a product, and that's why it's more expensive. 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.440 And so you've got to kind of stick behind that. 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.160 But there was definitely times during the the early parts where I was, you know, I would question myself. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.160 I'm like, am I overcharging for this? 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:43.920 And the answer is no. 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:44.480 Yeah. 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:45.920 No, i exactly. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.599 You know, I've had makers on the show. 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.319 I was a maker, I had a jewelry business for a while. 00:20:50.880 --> 00:21:01.759 And what people saw was the product, but it wasn't how long did I take to design something? 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:08.799 How many different types of metal, you know, did I try to use to get it to look the way it looks right then? 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:26.720 And where everything can be mass produced these days, getting something handcrafted or uniquely designed, there's a value to that that I I I just think escapes a lot of folks because you know, mass production is so easy. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.119 And I think that's and that's actually what my book is about with the quit selling your shit. 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:35.440 It's about how product first selling will kill a

creative business. 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.079 And we should stop selling the product and start selling the artist behind it. 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:40.559 Right. 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.160 And it took me many years to learn that lesson myself. 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.240 And once I did, I was able to tack a zero onto my pricing. 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.160 And nobody batted an eye because they weren't paying for the thing. 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:58.079 And you're absolutely right in that we get into this comparison thing, and we do it subconsciously as humans. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.880 So like if you're selling a necklace, they're like Like, oh, I know necklaces and I've seen necklaces that were this amount of money. 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.640 So why is this one more expensive? 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.960 And so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna buy the cheaper one. 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.400 But the reality is you start selling yourself, you're not just selling a product, you're selling the journey of the artisan behind it. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:16.799 And then people aren't just buying a thing. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.960 Now they're buying a piece of an artist. 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.920 They're supporting an artist, and that has value. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.640 Right. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.839 It does. 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:30.319 So how did you well actually I want to kind of stick with the the Santa Fra nerds? 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:35.920 What are some of the wow moments that you had in in designing things? 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.640 I love a good story. 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:44.480 And that's I think it's why I love the ring boxes so much because it's the beginning of a story, a beautiful story. 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:56.880 But some of the the most like one that really stands out to me, and this is a story I tell in my TEDx talk, which is called Santa for Nerds, if you want to go check it out, is there is this I got a call one day and I rarely get calls, usually they're emails. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:03.519 And this was a call from a concerned parent, and they said, Do you make a full-size Beauty and the Beast floating rose? 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.920 You know, the one that the beast has where the petals fall off. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.519 And that is one of the pieces that I make. 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:13.279 And they said, Is there any way that you can rush one and get it to us within a week up here in Canada? 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.480 I live in Nebraska, and I was like, uh, yeah, I can I can do it. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:32.079 And they said, That would be great because our daughter is dying of cancer, and it's her favorite movie, and she was a child, and we wanted to get it to her so she could see that there was a little bit of magic left in this world and that we could have it as a keepsake for when she goes as a reminder of her life. 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:33.759 You're gonna make me cry. 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:35.119 Well, it made me cry. 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.119 I'm a parent, you know, and I'm like, oh, of course. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:46.559 And so it it's it's those kind of stories where you don't think when you're making things that you have that kind of impact on people's lives. 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:51.759 I had a I had another kid who a parent had called me up, and there's a movie called Despicable Me. 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.839 I don't know if you're familiar with all the little minions. 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.240 The very first movie, the the antagonist, protagonist grew. 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:09.119 He he writes, he adopts these three girls, and then at the end he apologizes by having this book called it's the it's a unicorn book, and he puts his nose through it and it makes the little unicorn horn and it's very cute. 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:20.880 And I got a call from a parent, and they said their son had drowned when he was six, but they had recovered him, they had they had brought him back, but he had been he had been dead for like six minutes and he had suffered some brain damage. 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.920 And uh this was a few years later, but his move his favorite movie was Still Despicable Me. 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.759 And so the one big unicorn was his favorite book, and nobody made it. 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:34.960 And they were wondering if I could make him this book and make it a a reality for him. 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:37.200 And of course I did, you know, like, yeah, sure. 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:41.200 But they said, you know, he has some limitations because of the trauma that he had. 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:42.720 And so they had some requests. 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:48.880 They're like, you know, he has tendency to put he while he is growing up, his mentality stays that of a four or six-year-old. 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.359 And so he had a tendency to like put books in his mouth. 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.160 So it's like, hey, can you make these books so that they're waterproof? 00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:02.400 Or can you, you know, make them so that the kid so they can have them, he can he can look at it over and over and over again because they have the repetition was something that he did. 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.920 And so I was able to kind of step up to that and make that for him. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.759 And I actually made two books so in case something went wrong, and I threw the other one in for free because I was like, this means a lot. 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:21.359 And they did an unboxing video for me, not to put it on the internet or anything like that, but they should, you know, they had him open it up, and I heard the mom behind the camera get choked up. 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.240 I got choked up, and this kid was so excited. 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:30.799 Oh, and I'm like, if I could bring that kind of joy to a family who's seen some tragedy, it it

makes it worth it. 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.920 Absolutely worth it. 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:32.880 Yeah. 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.240 Holy cow. 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.799 Wow, so powerful. 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:48.720 What you know, in in in going through this journey, and you just seem to, I don't want to say be a short order cook, but no matter what anybody orders, you can fill it. 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:57.359 So where what were the challenging times in in being able to do that? 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.000 That's a great question. 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:08.559 And you would think that there wouldn't be one, but the hardest thing to sell is a service in which I can make whatever you can think of. 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.200 Yeah. 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:17.279 And so I would go like, and and honestly, the term Santa for nerds didn't happen for like 12 or 13 years into my business. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:23.440 I would come up with all kinds of funny ways to put it on a business card or a trade show banner or whatever. 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.599 But nobody understood what it was that I made. 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:34.000 I'd go to trade shows and I'd have my table set up, and people would walk by and I'm like, I can make you anything that you want, but you have to kind of show, you know, your your wares, like your skill. 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.440 And so I'd have uh examples and people would walk by and go, I don't want any of that. 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:38.720 I'm like, no, that's not what I do. 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:39.839 I make anything that you want. 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.000 I even had a sign one show that said, I will literally make you anything that you can think of. 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:45.039 You just have to ask. 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:55.119 And I and nobody would buy from it because they didn't, they don't think it's possible that one person or a company can can do this kind of job. 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:55.519 Yeah. 00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:00.000 And so the hardest thing is convincing people that Santa is real. 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.440 I I can see where there'd be some skepticism. 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:16.960 I can see it, but I mean, I haven't seen any work that you've produced, but I believe no matter what my little brain can come up with, you could create it. 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.039 So go figure. 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.720 If now like I I work with the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.200 Uh-huh. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:28.720 Um, that's that's one of my favorite ones to work with because they're very topical and they're very instant. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:34.640 And so they will call me up and they're like, we have this weird idea and we need it to be on air in two days. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:40.960 Like one of them, and it didn't make it to air, not because I didn't produce it, but because it got vetoed, which happens a lot in television. 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:51.599 But they had called me up and they said, We need two animated, realistic horse heads because Jimmy and Shaq want to ride horses and tell jokes, but we can't put them on real horses. 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:53.519 And we need it in two days. 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.200 And I'm like, okay, let's do it. 00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:07.119 So I made life-size animatronic horse heads that went on these like little saddles and stuff so they could be on the camera, but they had like the ears twitched and the head moved and stuff and made it in two days. 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.400 And it that's the kind of that's that's the type of work that I do. 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.799 It's like I can make it happen. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:14.000 Oh my gosh. 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:15.920 Now, see, I would panic. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.880 One, I would panic that the tonight show was on the phone. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.079 And then two, I would panic that I only had two days. 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.519 But I don't have the mind of a designer. 00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:29.920 So that that could be a really big obstacle for me. 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.359 But holy cow, such cool experiences. 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:34.720 It's fun, it's fun. 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.359 It's a lot of fun. 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:37.359 Yeah, it it sounds it. 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:45.039 So as time went on, where did the whole gamify business piece come into play for you? 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.799 So I had spent uh so I work in a studio basement. 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:51.440 Like in my basement, my studio is the entire basement. 00:28:51.599 --> 00:29:01.680 So it's it's a wonderful opportunity to be a stay-at-home dad, but also have a studio where I can actually do all of my work while my wife goes off and is a costume designer for a theater here in town. 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:06.559 And I had been doing it for a few years and I realized I was getting really lonely. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.640 And so I'm I'm used to live theater. 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.000 I'm used to being around people. 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:16.400 And so I had Googled one day, I said, how can I set up a camera and do my work in front of people so I can talk to people? 00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.960 And I found a platform called Twitch. 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.480 And basically, I didn't know it at the time, but it's a gaming platform. 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.240 People play video games and people watch. 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:24.720 Right. 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:31.599 But there's a small subset of it, about 20% of them are actually creatives who do art and people can watch them do art and ask questions. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:36.000 And so for five days a week, about six to eight hours a day, I would sit in front of cameras. 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:40.319 I had three cameras set up, one for my hands, one for my face, and then like a top view. 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.599 And I

would make all of these cool pieces. 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:47.839 You know, I'd be Santa's workshop, and you'd be able to watch me work and ask me questions. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:56.880 And what I found was that there's a lot of creatives out there who want to own a business doing what they love to do, but have zero idea how to do it. 00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:57.680 Like none. 00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:01.039 And they have all the skills, they just don't have any business acumen. 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:09.200 And so I would give them all the advice, you know, like here's how you figure out how to charge, this is the, you know, pricing, this is how you find clients, all of this stuff. 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:15.440 But what I realized was that I was talking in business speak, and a lot of creative minds don't understand business. 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.759 And so I would say, okay, this is the you know, Roas. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.279 You got to understand Roas, everybody. 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.599 And they're like, is that a rodent of unusual size? 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.279 I'm like, no, that's from Princess Bride. 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.599 You know, it's return on ad spend and all that. 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:26.720 And so they didn't get it. 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.720 And I was working with a client who they're really creative. 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.680 They were gamers like myself, and they made little dragons. 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:35.920 And so we were like, we were already best friends. 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:43.599 And so I was working with them on that, and I was asking them because they were a successful business on paper, but they weren't really successful in the bank accounts. 00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:47.440 And so they wanted me to come in and see if I could help them write the ship a little bit. 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.200 And so I was asking them, I said, So what do you guys like, what's your role in the business? 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.000 There were three of them. 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.680 And they said, Oh, we all do everything. 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.440 And I'm like, Well, you can't all do everything. 00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:56.480 That's not how you run a business. 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.000 So, like, what's your main role? 00:30:58.240 --> 00:30:59.839 And so they told me, and I said, Okay. 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:04.079 And I was just spitballing, I was just kind of coming up with an idea to help them understand it better. 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:09.039 I said, How about I come back tomorrow and we'll play Dungeons and Dragons Business Edition? 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:13.519 But instead of being a ranger or bard, you're gonna be your role in the business. 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:21.839 And instead of fighting dragons and imps, we're actually gonna fight monsters that are obstacles that you'd encounter in real life business. 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.000 Okay, so like the haggler or the scope creeper or these kinds of things. 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:26.799 And I just make it up. 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:28.559 And so we played for about four hours. 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:32.640 And after that, the CEO of the business goes, Is this what business is? 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:35.920 Because I think I finally understand it and it seems fun. 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.559 And I was like, Yes, this is exactly what it is. 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:43.680 And that was like the light bulb moment that went, ah, so what gamified business is, is it's not a game. 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:52.000 I mean, we play games, but what we do is we really translate the terminology of business into an area that people understand already. 00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.759 And a lot of it happens to be gaming because we've all been playing games since we were kids, and so we understand those rules. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:05.119 And so I translate regular business stuff into the jargon of it, into something that they can relate to. 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.119 And then we try to make it fun. 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:09.200 And that's the entire thing behind it. 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.440 And so once I was done with that, I was like, okay, I love Dungeons and Dragons. 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:14.720 I like the books that come with it. 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:25.839 And I was like, what if I wrote a book that looked like it belonged to Dungeons and Dragons, but it was like the player's handbook, but it's the player's handbook of real life business for creative entrepreneurs. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:26.559 And so I did. 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.799 I wrote the book, uh, that was my first book that I wrote. 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:32.559 And it's a basically walks you through how to set up your business. 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.240 But you start by creating a character sheet, which is you in your business. 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:38.160 And you have to understand what you're trying to do. 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:40.079 Like, what am I, what was what my business for? 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:41.359 What am I passionate about? 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:46.480 And then from there, we do looking for group, which is what you do in a Dungeons and Dragons and game. 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:52.079 And what we do is we try to find people who are who are going to be good business partners for you that make a good group. 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:53.839 You don't want people who are very similar to you. 00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:00.400 You want people that are going to help boost you up and round you out so that you are like a good cohesive unit. 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.440 And then from there we do all these encounters, which are the monsters that you would encounter with business. 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:16.079 But what I don't tell anybody is that if you fill out the book and it's self-led, is that at the end you have a fully formed business plan and a 90-day plan of action to earn real world money.

00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:17.039 Wow. 00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:18.720 But I hid it all behind the game. 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:19.920 Yeah. 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:21.440 That is really cool. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:52.559 And it it's funny because I have a lot of friends who are creatives, and they're all kind of in the same boat where it's they are incredibly talented and they may every once in a while sell something or get some recognition that brings more attention to what they do, but they're not uh I don't know, that that that that muscle that is business acumen just isn't isn't there. 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.839 And I I do not possess it myself. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.839 So I'm not I'm uh I'm not poo-pooing anybody that doesn't. 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:01.359 I'm I'm right there with you. 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:03.680 So this is fantastic. 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:04.720 What do you think? 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:11.840 You now you're a creative, but how did you get it being a creative? 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.159 My superpower is I I have ADD. 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.280 And my superpower is I love to learn. 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:25.760 And for me, understanding how things work is part of it's part of the Santa for nerds. 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:27.519 I'm a creative problem solver. 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.599 And so with business, I was like, how do I solve the business of business? 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.480 You know, it's I I wanted to, I want to know the answer. 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:36.000 I have that creative streak in me. 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.440 And I love to uh I love similes and metaphors. 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:45.920 And so when I'm I was a professor for a little while, like I said, and I love explaining things to people in a way that they'll understand it. 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.119 And so for me, it was let's break down all of these things, not just for other people, but for myself as well. 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:54.480 It's like because I have to understand this when I'm when I'm doing it myself. 00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:02.639 And one thing that's in all of my books are these little orange boxes, which are stories of me and my business and in my my struggles. 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:10.079 And I love that for me, failure is a step, not a stop, which is one thing that I say a lot. 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.960 And I screwed up a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. 00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:16.400 And fortunately, I'm I don't ever look at it as a stopping point. 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.719 I always look at it as an opportunity to learn and move on. 00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:19.039 Right. 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:24.880 And so all of my books are filled with stories of you know how I screwed up and hopefully you guys don't have to. 00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:32.960 And so it's just I I kind of don't have that part of my brain that tells me that you're gonna fail and that nothing isn't is possible. 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:38.320 I I think everything is possible, and I love to learn and and and failure is part of that. 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.719 And so that was really what allowed me to do this this thing that I do. 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.239 Oh, that's wild. 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.280 I I love it. 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:45.920 I love it. 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.920 I am running out to get that book as soon as we're off this call. 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:51.519 Excellent. 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:52.320 Yeah. 00:35:52.639 --> 00:36:07.199 So now making that transition from, or maybe it wasn't a transmit uh transition, maybe you're still doing all of the creative stuff and now you're adding the the gamified business piece to it. 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.199 What opportunities has that opened for you? 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.519 So I'm I I do both of them. 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:20.000 And actually I've added a third business because of course I did, where I'm actually writing fiction books. 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:20.880 That's right. 00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.039 So That's right. 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:24.320 Yeah, because why not? 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.320 You know, everything's everything's on the table, right? 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:36.480 But what I've what I've realized is I'm 50 years old and I know that there's a timeline to being able to do the tiny little things I do or to work with the chemicals that I'm working with when building all this. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:37.840 It's a young person's game. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.679 And so what I do now is I I do mostly corporate work. 00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:47.599 I don't do a lot of individual work anymore because it's fewer and far between and they have a larger budget to spend. 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.440 And so I don't have to work as hard. 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:55.360 But I think it allows for the younger, younger people to kind of step in to where I was to fill that vacuum. 00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:07.119 And so what the consulting and coaching business does is it allows me to just teach people how to do this kind of stuff as opposed to me having to do it all and take all the limelight. 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:20.239 And so the the challenges that I've run into with trying to do that conversion is that again, I'm a 50-year-old trying to start a business again and doing it all from the ground up. 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:27.119 And not only am I starting a business, I'm trying to do something that doesn't exist and make it make it aware for everyone who's out there. 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:33.519 And it's a it's a pretty noisy sea of information out on the internet and in the real world. 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:41.119 And so trying to convince people that this new shiny that I'm trying to sell to people is actually worth it when everybody's trying to sell a new shiny that may not be worth it. 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:45.280 So that's been a big a struggle for this business. 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:57.679 And

so also the lesson of, and we talked about this earlier, about being the star of it, not hiding behind the work, but actually trying to sell yourself is something that I too am not super comfortable with. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.400 Um I've found a nice coping mechanism, which is I I put on characters. 00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:07.840 So when I'm doing the the gamify business, I play the the game master and the barkeep. 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:09.440 And so I get to put on my outfit. 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:22.559 I got a little towel on my shoulder, and then I'm playing the character of it, again, going back to theater here, but that allows me to basically wear armor that protects myself from being so nervous about trying to do all of this stuff. 00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:23.039 Right. 00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:29.360 Um, and then not, you know, because it when you're consulting, the product that you're selling is what you know. 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.760 And so you have to be the person that's talking. 00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.960 And so the product that you're selling is your mind. 00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:38.559 And so you can't hide behind anything because it's your words that you're selling. 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.840 And so I've had to teach myself over and over again that this is this is the way that we should do it. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:51.119 But the challenges that you run into is very much just trying to convince people that this weird thing that you're doing is legitimate and it can help. 00:38:51.360 --> 00:39:00.239 And then getting in front of the right people in the right uh areas, which is, you know, fortunately for me, I don't mind being on stage, I don't mind being in front of a camera. 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:08.239 And so I do a lot of podcasts, I do I go on stage, I've done my TEDxes, it's it's those types of situations that get me in front of the right people. 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.159 But don't get me wrong, I still get nervous when I have to go up to somebody and say, would you like to learn how to be a business, even though you're super creative? 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.400 So, you know, it never goes away. 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:17.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:24.639 Well, I visited your website and I took the the the quiz. 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:29.920 And I absolutely love it because I'm not talking to a business consultant. 00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.320 I'm talking to a barkeep. 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:52.880 And the barkeep asks a series of questions to evaluate as a creative what your what your business, team building, networking, efficiency, effectiveness, financial awareness is. 00:39:53.599 --> 00:40:01.679 It evaluates all of those things through a series of questions, and then it puts it into practice by putting you into scenarios. 00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:04.159 And I found it fascinating. 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:08.079 Now, I'm not a Dungeons and Dragons person. 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:12.639 So some of the terminology is is gonna be lost on me. 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:24.079 But I went through and I took the assessment, and I want you to tell me a little bit about, not without, you know, don't give away trade secrets, but I want you to tell me a little bit about my profile. 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.920 I came out as a barred connector. 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.480 What does that mean to me? 00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:40.159 So one thing that you didn't mention is that you should have gotten an email with a really deep dive, like 11-page deep dive into your personality as a business person as well. 00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:41.360 So that should be in your email. 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:42.400 Oh, okay. 00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:43.519 I didn't check my email. 00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:44.719 Okay, so check that out. 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.400 And it's it's really thorough. 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.599 But so what a bard is, is is so there are six different classes that you can fall into. 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:57.280 There's warrior, ranger, bard, wizard, sage, and artificer. 00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.360 Those are the six different personalities. 00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:03.920 And each one of them represents how you approach business. 00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.960 This isn't a personality test about your personal life or anything like this. 00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.679 It's really just about business and how you approach it. 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:15.199 And when you're answering these questions, it kind of helps to it folds you into these different areas. 00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:24.880 Now, the bard in particular is a great one because three of them are outward-facing or people facing businesses or classes, and that would be the warrior, the bard, and the sage. 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:31.440 And then underneath that, there are the behind-the-scenes people, which would be the ranger, the wizard, and the artificer. 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:46.880 The bard itself is a forward-facing person who enjoys communicating with others, has ideas, but also is selling the uh basically other people, like the ability to do things for other people. 00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:50.800 It's it's the level up from being a wizard. 00:41:51.119 --> 00:42:00.559 A wizard is actually a person who is comfortable with some variety, some change, doing something a little bit different, is is okay with you know doing the same thing over and over again. 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.639 You mentioned you did jewelry, so you're used to the to being within the confines. 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:09.119 I'm making jewelry today, but it could be a necklace, it could be a bracelet, it could be a ring, it could be all these different things. 00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:10.239 So there's variety in it. 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.639 If somebody came to you and said, hey, we'd like to try something a little bit different, you would be game for it. 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:16.159 That's the wizard

mentality. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.920 Well, the bard comes from the wizard. 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:22.719 So they basically move up, they level up out of it, and they are more forward-facing. 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.519 So now you are a person who can sell the product. 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:27.519 You are good at communicating with people. 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:29.199 I look at you at this podcast here. 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:31.199 You've got great communication skills. 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.920 You can relate to what I'm talking about. 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:39.039 So you can talk to people who are wizards and be able to communicate it. 00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:48.239 And then you can also sell the skills that somebody, you know, that people uh maybe underneath you could do because you're familiar with being that wizard personality. 00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:53.760 And so I love the bard because it is very much a universal communicator. 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.239 You you've got a lot of flexibility to you. 00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:59.840 So you don't find yourself like you're not a wallflower. 00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:02.880 You go into a party, you can you can meet new people, you don't have a problem with that. 00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:06.559 You can tell good stories, you're a good uh you can laugh, you can you enjoy yourself. 00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:10.559 You have a social battery that a lot of the behind-the-scenes people do not have. 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:18.800 Now, if you rolled an artificer, those types of people are the ones who not only do they not like change, they want to be locked in a room and left alone to do the thing that they're really good at. 00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.719 That's that's an artificial accounting. 00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:21.599 Yeah, exactly. 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:23.599 No, no, you're not, you're not wrong. 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:30.800 And the sage is actually a level up from that one because a sage used to be that, but they are forced into a role that is more people forward. 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:39.519 And they will sell at artificers' work, but they know not to promise anything outside of the box because it will upset the artificer. 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:41.360 And so the bard is kind of the mix there. 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:47.599 And then the last one, which is the warrior and the ranger, the warrior is the type of person that would be like, We can do it, we can do it. 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:53.840 They they charge in and they promise the world and they they they say that we can deliver anything, but they have no idea how to do any of it. 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:54.159 Yeah. 00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:55.440 We've all met those people. 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.599 Uh we call them bros, or we call you know that it's all just guys that are out there, and they'll sell the world. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.679 What they do is they go, we can do it, we can do it. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.519 And then they

turn around and go, can we do it? 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:07.519 And the ranger is the person that's behind them that goes, Yeah, we can do it. 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:11.440 Because the ranger is the type of person that loves the challenge of variety. 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:20.000 They love to pick up the pieces, they love to figure everything out, but they will suffer if you put them into a cubicle and you make them do the same thing over and over again. 00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:21.519 That's not what they're geared for. 00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:22.000 Right. 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:29.519 So they work really well with the with the warrior because the warrior is promising the world in every direction and they and the ranger has to figure it out. 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.440 And so that's the six different types. 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:47.840 And so the bard to me is almost a universal forward-facing person because they they live a better, uh, a fuller life and they understand the limitations, but they're not locked into those limitations, but they can occasionally like confine themselves. 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:51.039 So it's it's a really good bard is probably one of it's what I pulled as well. 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:56.800 It's one of the most variety, it's the one of the most versatile word I'm looking to. 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.000 It's yes, versatile. 00:44:58.079 --> 00:44:58.880 That's the word I'm looking for. 00:44:58.960 --> 00:44:59.199 Thank you. 00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.159 It's one of the most versatile roles that you could get. 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:03.039 So yeah. 00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:04.000 Cool. 00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:04.880 Cool. 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.679 So like I said, I I loved taking the quiz. 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:14.320 I think you got honest answers because it wasn't a question-answer thing. 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.480 It was more of like an interaction. 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:19.840 And the barkeep leans over and whispers. 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.159 It's like, what's your next move? 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.320 So I really loved that. 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.000 It was it I think you got more honest answers out of me. 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:34.000 Or I got more honest answers out of me because to your point, I was playing a character. 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.480 We we were in a little scene together. 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:36.960 Yeah. 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:39.039 So really good stuff. 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:44.320 Once once somebody takes the quiz, what's what's the next step? 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:53.199 So you have options at the end of the quiz to sign up for a you can sign up for the newsletter if you want to to kind of get a little bit deeper value into it. 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.559 And some people do and some people don't. 00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.199 It's probably like 60-40 as to whether they will. 00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:01.440 But if you do get into the the world of it, I don't spam people because I hate spam myself. 00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:01.760 Right. 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.480 But what you do is you you'll get deeper dives into it. 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.559 And then I start to mention some of the other products and services that I offer. 00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:18.800 You know, we call them upsells in business, but I am a low pressure salesman because hate to say it, but creatives are skittish, especially when it comes to sales. 00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:21.039 And so uh I don't want to pressure you. 00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:33.199 And also I don't want to uh ever put you in a position in where you feel compelled to buy something from me or work with me, because I I know personally that once I'm out of the picture, you won't do the work. 00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:38.719 And so I want you to be in a position in which you feel comfortable enough that you're like, oh, I'd love to learn more. 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:42.239 I'd love to do this, I'd like to learn, you know, to get more information on this. 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:44.000 And so it's very low pressure. 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:54.960 But that's basically what happens is so you'll get some of the newsletters, and then you have the opportunity to either buy the books, which are all self-led, or you can actually work with me, or I do workshops in which we get together. 00:46:55.039 --> 00:47:00.400 And since you pulled Bard, I actually will do emails every once and say, hey, we're having an all-bard meeting. 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:03.199 And so we can all get together and do and bards can talk to bards. 00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:12.559 But one of the key things that I kind of glossed over a little bit in it is that not only do you get to learn your class, but you get to learn the ideal secondary class for you. 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:22.000 So, like with the bard, you were looking for wizards to be your ideal partner in business because they're gonna help to pick up all the slack of the places that you might have a deficiency, which isn't bad. 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:22.719 We all have them. 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.480 And then wizards have their own, and you've got things that help to balance that out. 00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:30.880 And we'll do workshops where we say, okay, we're gonna do a bards and wizards. 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:34.159 So if you don't have a wizard in your life, let's see if you can meet meet one. 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:40.239 And it's kind of like a meet cute type of situation where we all get to get to meet our ideal partners here. 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.440 And this, again, these are partners in business, not partners in real life. 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:43.920 Right. 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.400 But what's what's fun with that is I've I've actually had people who are like, I have a partner in business. 00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:52.400 I'm having them take the quiz to find out if they truly are a good fit. 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:58.480 And I'd say

most of the time they are, but sometimes they'll find that they they it's two bards or it's two warriors. 00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:07.760 And what's interesting is because creatives especially like to surround ourselves with people we like to talk to and we like to you know be around people like us, but it's not really good for business. 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:08.960 Right, right, right. 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:09.679 Nothing gets done. 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:11.519 Right. 00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.000 And so, but but those are the the next steps. 00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:20.480 And I have when we do workshops, I actually have games that we play, they're video games and or live action role-playing. 00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.679 And so we we actually do those live, we have head-to-head competitions, which I think is is really good. 00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:33.679 And then I have like a starter land game that it's should be out in the next month or so, because I'm not a coder, but I've had to learn how to do this to make these video games. 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:41.440 But basically, in a video game, you have a starting area, which is where you learn all the rules and then and all the skills to be able to go play the game. 00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:44.159 And so I was like, well, we should have that in business as well. 00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:50.480 And so I created this game where you go in the barkeep is where you start and you talk to him, and he's like, Well, you need to go get some armor and some materials. 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:55.199 So go out into the into this make-believe world and talk to these six different people. 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:03.440 Um, there's the blacksmith, there's the guild leader, and they teach you skills and they give you some equipment so that you get fully kitted out, is what we'd call it. 00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:10.480 And then after that, then the barkeep sends you out on your first mission, which is to go kill some monsters, and they're very starter monsters. 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:17.760 And what's nice about it is you go in there and you have the you meet this monster, and and typically the monsters are things that you're going to encounter in real business. 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:23.840 And some of them are are, you know, uh not necessarily external creatures, but internal ones. 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.280 So like we have the you know, doubts that rise up in ourselves. 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:31.760 Yeah, and so when you encounter these, it's not hitting them with the sword, it's answering a question. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:40.079 So it's like, oh, you've encountered this creature, and it says that you aren't worthy because you've got, you know, you know, I don't feel like I belong. 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:43.440 I don't think I have the skills to do this, and this monster is taunting you with this. 00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:45.199 Well, how do you how do you counteract that? 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:49.199 Well, somebody in

the town, one of those people actually told you the how to get over this. 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:50.800 And so you don't have that fear anymore. 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:58.559 And so you you have we have choose your own, like a you know, A, B, C, D, E, um, and you like choose a selection that would would work best for you. 00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:02.320 But all of those answers are actually generated by you when you're talking to these townspeople. 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:12.800 So it's all about learning who you are and how you approach these things and then turning it into a game because the reality is life should be more like a game and you should be having fun with it, especially business. 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:18.159 And so it teaches you these skills so that when you're out in the real world, you're not overwhelmed by these things. 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:25.360 You don't, you don't feel like you don't have the the skills or the abilities to do this because you do, we just don't have the confidence yet. 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.880 And so if we turn it into a game, we separate the ego, then you can go out there and you and you do this and you just have fun at it. 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:31.360 Yeah. 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:48.480 Oh, I have a learning and development background, and we were all about gamification, making things fun, creating scenarios, role-playing so that it's not just boring, dry lecture on building skills. 00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:49.039 Yeah. 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:51.360 You actually get practice time. 00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:57.760 Go read about the skills outside of class, come to class prepared to start using the skills. 00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:58.880 Kind of like driver's ed. 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:03.920 You take the class, but you do your real learning behind the wheel. 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:05.679 So Yeah, absolutely. 00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:13.360 And I think I I wish more people would understand that, you know, they're like when I was growing up, I was always told you're book smart, but you're not street smart. 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:13.599 Okay. 00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.039 You're really good at learning the information, but you're not really good at application. 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.079 And uh I was like, oh, okay, well, I got to work on that. 00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.719 And so as an adult, you know, that's one of the things. 00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:23.679 And you're absolutely right. 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:26.000 It's like you got to put yourself in that scenario. 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:34.559 If if you ever find yourself, if you've got a creative streak and you're unsure like you can you have that versatility, go volunteer at a community theater. 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:37.840 Go do some theater, especially the behind the scenes stuff. 00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:45.519 Because the you learn so many soft skills that you don't think will apply in life, but you absolutely do apply them in life. 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:51.920 I remember as a prop maker, one one show I would be doing like six-tier super decorated cakes. 00:51:52.079 --> 00:52:00.320 And then the next one I'm building uh I've built so many weird things like swimming pools or working kitchens and all these kinds of like random things. 00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:02.639 Like, where where do all these skills get taught? 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.840 You know, it's like, well, you have to do it in theater because that's what's required. 00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:14.639 And so if you are creative and you're unsure about how these skills work, go do theater sometime and you'll learn that you have so many abilities that you're unaware of. 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:14.960 Yeah. 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.519 And that practical application is very possible. 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:23.679 My my former pod partner, Maureen, was a technical theater major in college. 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:25.599 She went into HR. 00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:31.679 She had all of those skills, I'm assuming from technical theater. 00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:33.039 She retired early. 00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:37.119 It burnt her out, but she's very happy now. 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.159 Well, hopefully she's like painting or doing something from the side. 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.159 She is doing all of the above. 00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:47.440 She's painting, she's doing pottery, she's gardening, she's she's doing fantastic. 00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:48.639 But yeah, it's funny. 00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:54.639 She was a technical theater major and had no problem going right into the HR field. 00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:55.360 Yep. 00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:55.760 Yep. 00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:58.079 Theater is theater is a is a weird thing. 00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:01.039 I would like we keep trying to cut it out of system, out of school system. 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:05.039 But it's like you have no idea how valuable this in this is for people. 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:11.599 It's actually like when you go into MIT and Harvard Business School, or to, or the other one's John Hopkins. 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:14.480 One of the last questions they ask is, Did you do you ever do theater? 00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:15.840 It's on their application. 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:16.400 Wow. 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:19.760 Because they want to know that you've got the soft skills that you've got for versatility. 00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:21.360 Oh, that's great. 00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:31.440 Now, speaking of skills, you are now flexing a new skill, which is the nonfiction writing. 00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:32.639 Yes, I am. 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.039 Let's just, let's just bring that up. 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:36.719 Sure, why not? 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:45.119 So I was writing the the business manuals, all these gamified business books, and in the middle of it, I was working with a book coach on it. 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:49.199 And the book coach was not grasping what I was trying

to do. 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:53.039 It was it my book coach was really good at writing books, but she was like a memoir writer. 00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:56.719 And she's like, I think you need to write a memoir of your journey, and then people will learn from that. 00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:58.559 And I was like, No, I don't think that's what I want to do. 00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:00.559 So I started writing the gamified books. 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:05.360 And then in the middle of it, I was, I had a really weird youth. 00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:10.400 I had one summer, and this might it might be a little dark, but it there's a reason we're going into this. 00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:15.360 But in this one summer, 12 people died within a two-block radius of my house. 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:16.400 Oh my gosh. 00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:17.760 This is in the 80s. 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:27.920 And so, very much the stand by me, stranger things type of life, all the kids in the neighborhood were deeply invested into the mystery of what was happening during this time. 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:31.679 And it was, it was a bizarre time in my life. 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:39.039 But while I was working with the book coach and we were talking about the memoir aspect of it, I had brought this up, and she's like, that is such a wild, that sounds like a book. 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:40.159 And I was like, Oh, it could be. 00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:53.920 And so I wrote a bunch of short stories, but instead of them being hyper-realistic, I turned them into suspense, thriller, sci-fi type of stories, whereas like these mysteries and stuff were because magical things were happening in the neighborhood. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:57.039 So I wrote these called the Green Trees stories. 00:54:57.280 --> 00:54:58.719 And then I wrote them. 00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:07.119 There was 20 stories in that one, and I submitted them to a couple of places, and they said, nobody buys anthologies of short stories. 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:08.960 So you need a through-line book. 00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:10.239 And I'm like, okay, fine. 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:19.119 So I took one character who may or may not be a lot like me in this time and created a story. 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:21.039 It's called Death's Intern. 00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:27.440 And it is about a kid who is recruited by the Grim Reaper to become the next Grim Reaper. 00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:33.280 And it's all of these, it and in doing it, there's all of these weird things that are happening around his world. 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.719 And so he's got a team of kids that are helping him solve these mysteries and stuff. 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:38.480 And it's an adult, it's an adult book. 00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:47.360 It's it's written from the perspective of kids, but it is not, it's more like Stand By Me and It from Stephen King as opposed to a children's story or young adult story. 00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:50.880 But I have read it to my kids,

they loved it, and not because dad wrote it. 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:51.760 They actually do like books. 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:52.960 They'll tell me if they don't like it. 00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:55.679 But it's it's most kids do. 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.800 They do indeed. 00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:58.400 They're very brutally honest. 00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:00.079 And so that's where that's where this came from. 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.840 And so from there, I've I've been writing it. 00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.840 It's actually now I'm looking for a publisher for it. 00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:07.599 I thought about self-publishing, but I'm like, I had an editor, and she's like, don't self-publish. 00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:09.039 This is too good for me, self-published. 00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:09.920 And I'm like, well, great. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.599 Now I gotta learn how to be a published author. 00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:12.480 I have no idea how to do this. 00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:13.519 So I guess I'm gonna learn something new. 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:15.039 You gotta add that to the list. 00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:16.000 Yeah, exactly. 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:18.000 So so that's where that that one started from. 00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:19.599 And it was it's it's funny. 00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:20.960 I never thought I would be a writer. 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:21.519 Never. 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:28.159 And now I'm I'm seven or eight books in in seven or eight books within the last three years. 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:29.440 Wow. 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:31.840 Amazing. 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.079 Your journey blows my mind. 00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:41.280 And and I I had said off mic before we started recording, what drew me to you as a guest was the whole Santa for Nerds. 00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:43.920 I was like, oh, that's a great conversation. 00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:56.639 Little did I know that was a fraction of your journey from Santa for nerds to entrepreneur to business coach to writer. 00:56:56.960 --> 00:56:58.079 Holy cow. 00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.920 Is there anything left for you to do? 00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.079 Is there anything you want to do? 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.119 I'm a go with the flow kind of dude. 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:14.800 I you know, honestly, I I just love to put to put it out there, you know, to be creative. 00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:20.000 And I and I think that is is what's the next thing? 00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:21.440 I have no, I have no idea. 00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:26.559 I love to travel and it's and it's whatever whatever comes up comes up. 00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:37.920 I I I think right now the the biggest journey that I'm looking forward is I've got three boys who are all extremely different, but they are all extremely creative in their own ways. 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:48.880 And I think between mom and dad both being creatives and all of them, I I my next adventure will be seeing what they do with it and seeing it and because they want to be creatives, they all do. 00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.519 My oldest is in college right now to be an animator. 00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:52.079 Uh-huh. 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.920 And I've got a musical kid, and I've got a writerslash game developer kid. 00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:06.719 And every single one of those are very challenging careers to get into, but they happen to know a dad who is kind of writing the book on how creatives can be successful. 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:17.599 And so for me, it's, you know, put my money where my mouth is or where my family is, and seeing if I can, you know, help them to become the the great creatives that they are, as well as the strangers in my life. 00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:18.400 Yeah. 00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:20.159 That's that's fantastic. 00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:22.480 That is, that is a great mission. 00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:29.199 And I will definitely be checking back in with you to see how how we're doing on that one. 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:35.679 But what a what a beautiful, what a beautiful way to kind of pass the torch to your to your kids. 00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:36.719 I love that. 00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:37.440 Thank you. 00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:37.920 Thank you. 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:41.360 Paul, thank you so much for all of your time. 00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:43.280 I have so enjoyed this. 00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:57.360 You're definitely a guest I'm gonna be in touch with outside of the interview for my own personal growth, because I am making, I think I alluded to it a little earlier, I'm making a career pivot right now. 00:58:57.679 --> 00:58:58.400 Wonderful. 00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:01.760 And uh I've got I've got some concerns. 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.960 I've got some strengths, but I've got some concerns. 00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:14.239 So you were very timely for me, as I hope you are very timely for a lot of the creatives that I know listen to the podcast. 00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:16.639 So again, thank you for all your time. 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:18.960 Where can folks find you online? 00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:20.639 Okay, thank you. 00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:21.519 So thank you so much. 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:26.880 And that that actually does mean an awful lot to me that you uh what you said, super kind. 00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:35.119 You can find me at gamifybusiness.com and you can take the quiz at gamifybusiness.com forward slash quiz if you would like to learn your business personality. 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:40.639 And if you're interested in the design work and seeing what's out there, you can go to paulpapedesigns.com as well. 00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:42.559 That's where the Santa for Nerd stuff lives. 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:46.719 And all of my social media handles are either Paul Pape Designs or Gamify Business. 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:48.000 So you can find me anywhere. 00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:52.400 And just so everyone knows, if you have a question and you

reach out, you're not gonna get a bot. 00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.320 You're gonna get Paul, and Paul will answer. 00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:56.800 So if you have questions, please feel free to reach out. 00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:57.840 Fantastic. 00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.400 And where can we find your books? 01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:01.599 My books are available. 01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:10.159 Two of them, quit selling your shit, and the uh Bard's Guide to Storycraft are available on Amazon, but the rest of them are on gamified business.com because Amazon doesn't want to sell my hardcover books. 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:12.960 And I think books are beautiful when they're hardcovers. 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:14.079 So yeah. 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:16.800 Well, great. 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:18.800 Thank you so, so much, Paul. 01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:20.480 I really enjoyed this. 01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:21.599 Thank you, Helen. 01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:23.360 I really appreciate it being honest. 01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:24.320 It's been a lot of fun. 01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:25.360 I love it. 01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:44.159 I am an absolute fan of what Paul does and how he continues to evolve throughout every experience he has or creates. 01:00:45.119 --> 01:01:01.039 Something that stands out to me, especially early on in his journey, is his ability to remain open-minded, to try new or different things, yet he's so self-aware to know when something's not going to work for him. 01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:10.960 Another nugget I took away from my conversation is his natural ability to seek improvement or to simplify things. 01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:21.599 And those qualities have taken him on some wild rides and brought about significant steps along his journey. 01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:30.639 And then lastly, his overall journey reminds me of a quote from the 2005 animated movie Robots. 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.599 If you haven't seen it, check it out. 01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:38.639 It has an amazing voice cast, including Robin Williams. 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:45.679 The main character is a young boy robot with aspirations to become an inventor. 01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:51.599 And he gets encouraged by this saying, see a need, fill a need. 01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:57.519 And Paul has been doing that throughout his entire career. 01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:28.000 And having the heart of a creative, a teacher, and the mentor that he is resonates throughout his entire journey from what he produces for folks who are ordering from him to how he coaches people who think in the same way he does, and helping them become better business people so that they can share their creativity wide and far. 01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:30.880 Just amazing. 01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:39.360 Use the tell me what you think about this week's episode link in the show notes and tell me what you got out of Paul's journey. 01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.039 I'd love to hear it. 01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:48.960 And speaking of show notes, jump down to them to connect with Paul's design work and his Gamify Business website. 01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:53.119 And while you're there, don't forget to connect with me. 01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:56.159 All my socials are linked there as well. 01:02:56.719 --> 01:02:59.199 As always, thanks for listening. 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:04.880 Your support of the podcast means a lot, so keep listening and keep sharing. 01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:07.920 And I'll see you in a few weeks.