บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ INTERVIEW: Wellness Wednesday with Tracey Yeend & Sleep Expert Professor Danny Eckert

00:05:21 Speaker 3: Look for an adult, the recommended range of seven to nine hours and then once you get over sixty five, actually your body needs a little less, so the quality of our sleep goes down a little. That is, we don't get quite as much deep sleep, and the recommendations more like seven to eight hours once you're over sixty five completely, Never. 00:05:39 Speaker 1: Night I dream of seven to eight hours. How much sleep do you get a night? 00:05:43 Speaker 2: I need eight hours sleep. I don't always get eight hours. 00:05:47 Speaker 1: By usually texting me late in the show, you know, only. 00:05:50 Speaker 2: When I get home from here, and it takes a bit of time to wind out. It's not very often I'm listening past ten o'clock ever. 00:05:58 Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm my self have so many questions for you about what you do, about the why we need to sleep, how much we need, what can we do to get better sleep? All of that. If you've got a question, of course, for Tracy ORFA professor daniecat eight double two three double o double oh. I have since taking on this job really struggled. You know, I finish at twelve. We're out of here at midnight or just after. If I'm lucky, I'm asleep by two because and you speak to footballers, you know, after a Friday night Saturday night, Sunday night game. They don't get to a bed for hours, you know, four or five hours. So and then because life is life, kids, dogs, my next door neighbor's lawn mower seven seven point thirty. So I'm probably lucky to get five a night, maybe six if I'm lucky. Hence why this face, Professor is what it is like a traceealer test. How handsome was I before this show? Trace land on the floor with yes, sorry, that's true. So what do we again? These are questions that people would ask you. Any advice you would give us, any tips you would give the people who are listening that want more sleep. 00:07:07 Speaker 3: Look, there's as we're learning more about the science of sleep. That scenario that you described, you're in there with about seventeen percent of Australians that are shift workers, and it places a toll on the body. It's not easy to fight against your natural body clock and life and family demands. And you know, I'm a sleep researcher, so I've done my fair share of night shifts over the years too, and so yeah, I can relate to how challenging it can be to try and get that sleep against you know, non typical hours and fit in everything else that you have to in life. But what we know about the science of sleep is our bodies love routine, and so recognizing that's not possible for everyone to go about it at the same time every night and allow enough time, and recognizing you know, that's a wide window seven to nine hours with the recommendation for adults. You know, individual needs do differ. But the more and more we learn is a consistent schedule going to bed, yeah, roughly the same time every night, giving enough sleep opportunity, Your body, everything, all your organs,

your vitality, your productivity will all benefit from having that good nights sleep and a regular atteem. 00:08:26 Speaker 1: I will be devastated if you tell me this is the wrong thing. I heard an expert say once that if you do workshift work and you work late at night like we do, set yourself an hour during the day and have a nap and treat it like a proper sleep, which is what I do religiously now. And Tracy knows this. So I will set myself an out. If I get fifty minutes, thirty minutes, five minutes, it doesn't matter. I will do that religiously. And they said don't ever, they said, the snooze button's the worst thing you can ever do, because then you start your exicating rhythm. And that is that, right? Is that what we should be doing. If you don't get enough sleep, have that power nap during the day. 00:09:02 Speaker 3: Look, a power n app is a really good strategy to celebrating here. Yeah, to combat shift work and you know, alertness trouble, it's so yes, if you cannot fit it in in one sequence, absolutely a nap can help. And you know, actually, when I was cycling a lot, that's what I used to do. So I would wake up early when it was still dark, do my you know, four or five hours whatever I need to do on the bike, come home, have a nap, and then go off to university and do my classes and things. 00:09:40 Speaker 1: A proper nap is in not on the couch, not in a recliner like go to bed. 00:09:44 Speaker 3: Go to bed, pass out and yeah, and look, I mean we've done studies at Flyna's University actually led by Leon Lack and colleagues looking at that kind of optimal duration of a nap. And so again it depends on the second stance is how sleep deprived you are. But you know most of us, you put us in a dark, quiet room during the day, we will goes off eventually. But really what they looked at in this study was different durations five, ten, you know, fifteen, twenty, thirty minutes and beyond. And they've basically found that ten to twenty minute nap was kind of optimal to just pick you up during the day in terms of your alertness, because if you go too long, you can get what we call sleep inertia, where you end up feeling groggy and you actually perform worse on alertness and reaction time tests than you did before the nap if you go too long. 00:10:36 Speaker 2: So interesting. See, I know myself, if I have a nap in the afternoon, which I never really get time to do, I wake up, I feel incredibly nauseous, and I don't know why that is. But I don't feel better from having a nap. 00:10:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, And some people do struggle with it. It's like, you know, sleep is a physiological process, but it's also a biological process obviously, and so some of them that you know, behavioral component can be getting used to it and sort of training yourself as you need. But you know, obviously if you can trying to get enough sleep during the night. If you've got enough sleep, opportunity is best in terms of overall health and well being. And hence, you know, we don't recommend naps if you are struggling to sleep at night, and because that can you know, reduce what we call sleep drive and make it more difficult to sleep overnight, assuming you've got enough time. But if you're currently sleep deprived then or a shift worker, yeah, naps can be a really useful TOM. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: I don't want to hold all the questions. I want the callers to ring and ask you as well. Professor Dannieckert is here along with Tracy yean Flinder's Professor, College of Medicine and Public Health, actively involved in human sleep and respiratory physiology research since the early two thousands. A double two three, double O double, A quick one before the break in our calls, I lay on my stomach. Are you are you a proponent of should we be sleeping on our back, should we be on our side, should we be on our front? Or does it not matter? 00:12:07 Speaker 3: Look? I do a lot of research on sleep apnea and breathing during sleep, and position does matter, and so our airway tends to be most vulnerable or narrowing and closing, and ultimately things like snoring when we're on our back, and that's because gravity is kind of pushing your jaw and your tongue. As all your muscles kind of relax, they can kind of float back into the airway, so side or front can be good. 00:12:36 Speaker 1: And two from two Tracy, although I did the sleep test, I did the sleep apnea test, and people like yourself stuck this kind of VHS on me on my chest and I slept and it was one of those ones I tried not to, but I was so uncomfortable. I went bugger and I literally just slept on top of the machine just because I just knew that I wasn't going to get any sleep at all, And I thought, how are you going to do your sleep study when you don't sleep? 00:13:01 Speaker 2: So he's the one that breaks your machine? 00:13:03 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just put all my weight on it. 00:13:05 Speaker 3: But yeah, and look, when we did the TV show, we had some great participants that got involved with that, and one one of them, who happened to be a comedian as well, described the experience of kind of going in for a sleep study is, you know, rolling around in the spare parts being at Dick Smith's true, and I thought that was pretty telling. Look, yes, we record a lot of things in a standard sleep study. And you know, most folks who particularly asleep at in you who also tend to be pretty tired, sleep very well in the lab environment where it's dark and quiet, you know, particular if you've got kids at home or other distractions. So so you know a lot of most folks find it just fine to sleep in the lab, but others don't. Others can struggle. And that's where some of these newer technologies and things that we and others are leaning into can really help us get a better insight into what's going on in the home environment. And you know, the multiple nights, not just one in the lab. 00:14:05 Speaker 1: Professor Dennieckett is here along with Tracy and we're talking health

and sleep your calls next. Professor Dannieckett is here along with Tracy Yan for our Wellness Wednesday segment. Professor Dennieckett is a expert in sleep and sleep apnea. So if you've got any questions or comments, A double two three, double O, double O. Barbara from Salisbury, North Hello, Barbara. 00:14:24 Speaker 4: Hello, First of all, Hello, Hello Tracy, and hello be your guest speaker. 00:14:31 Speaker 5: Yes, Professor Denny, I didn't quite catch the slang, but I'm hoping that you might be able to help me. Many many years ago at the old RAH, I underwent a sleep study and it showed up that I have my sleep up there, but they didn't recommend that I had to use a device at night. But anyhow, I am qulleitly tired, fatigue, and I just don't know what to do. It's short any more. 00:15:08 Speaker 1: What do we do? 00:15:08 Speaker 3: Professor Danny, Well, yeah, I'm sorry to hear that you've been struggling with this sleep and how long ago was your sleep study? Oh? 00:15:16 Speaker 5: Quite a few years ago. 00:15:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I would certainly if you're still struggling throughout the day, because things can change over time. As a first protocol, absolutely worth having a chat to your GP and describing the issues that you're having so that they can work through possible next steps, because you know there may be other things going on that's causing your sleepiness and or fatigue that would be worth investigating. Because yeah, as we know, if if you're not getting good night's sleep, or if other issues medical issues are in play, you know, it can affect every aspect of your life and it can be overwhelming and all consuming, So definitely worth having a chat with the GP. 00:16:04 Speaker 5: But what could be other reasons? 00:16:07 Speaker 3: Look, there are other issues that can occur during sleep as a gosh, I think there are about almost thirty clinical sleep disorders in the guidelines. So how do you sleep? You know, tell us about your timing of sleep. Do you have any trouble waking up during the night or getting off to sleep or waking up too early? 00:16:29 Speaker 5: I'll tosso turn on at night. 00:16:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, and tell me more about how you feel during the day. 00:16:38 Speaker 5: Well, why not get up in the morning whatever time that may be. I get up and I follow my regular routine every morning and then bush for teague, shitching, overwhelming tidness and I just have to go back to bed to have well I a catch up. But I never ever feel breathless. 00:17:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, it could be that your sleep at near has worsened over time, which can happen, so that would be worth checking out. And of course there could be other things going on that would be worth investigating. So I definitely think that's worth having a chat with the GP. 00:17:21 Speaker 1: Thank you, Barbara can it get worse, Sorry, Tracy, can it get worse? 00:17:24 Speaker 3: Can? Can? 00:17:25 Speaker 1: You have a sleep outenar test and it's fine, and then a couple of years later you go and have another one and there's more change. 00:17:31 Speaker 3: And that is quite typically the pattern because you know, as we age, sleep up near and breathing problems become more common. 00:17:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just too. You know, quite often it was just thought that it was either obesity or like positioning or some sort of physical obstruction. But as Danny said, there's lots of other causes and sometimes it might not just be one thing. Even some medications might weigh into that equation. So having an assessment where someone looks at everything about what's going on, because it might be one of those little things to the side that has worsened the actual apnea over time and therefore worsening the sleep quality. So I would definitely get a review, and failing that, you know, second opinion. 00:18:18 Speaker 1: So I got pericarditist during COVID, and I was having issues with that. I was fatigued all the time and still suffer from long COVID. Now, then you chuck in the hours of this job, and much like Barbara, I was waking up exhausted, so I'd had my sleep, but I was like, man, I feel horrendous, so I didn't go back and have another sleep and then you know, try to work it out from there. So that's what I guess you're saying. There could be under other underlying issues that play on top of that. 00:18:44 Speaker 3: And often they are as and the other thing. I'd recommend, you know, little self promotion here'd be definitely worth checking out Australia Sleep Revolution on SBS on demand with doctor Michael Moseley, the three part TV series that we may because there's lots of helpful factual information in there and lots of good tips and as you'll see in that show, it's rarely one issue. There's complex interplays with other health conditions or lifestyle factors that feed in. And you know, other people have what's called circadian disruption, so there are light issues either getting too much and enough not light, but their body clock is disrupted, which can also feed into sleep problems. 00:19:34 Speaker 1: We talk about that a lot, the vitamin D and the sunshine on the show. We're going to take a shot break more with Tracy and Professor Danny Eckert is here Flinders Professor College of Medicine and Public Health. We're talking sleep and Sleep Happen here. If you've got a question or a comment. Thank you for tuning in on this Wednesday night, the thirteenth day of May. It is five minutes after nine. We love a Wednesday because we get to see Tracy Yings Barely a pharmacy answers all your questions about your health, and from time to time she introduces us to her village. Amazing people who become friends of the show and then have an open invitation to join us at any time. Took about their expertise and level of expertise and the areas of Professor Dannieckett is our guest tonight. He's a Flinders University Professor, College of Medicine, Public Health, Sleep Guru. Sleep happ Near Guru's

giving it. You should have seen how many questions I barraged him during the break. Tracy Well, and. 00:20:26 Speaker 2: Also to congratulate Danny, he has just been announced as the recipient of the twenty twenty six American Academy of Sleep Medicine Excellence in Research Award. 00:20:37 Speaker 1: Congratulations, Oh, thank you very much for one of many trophy certificate. Sash crown. 00:20:43 Speaker 3: What do we get one thousand dollars US card hold cash. 00:20:47 Speaker 2: So look, yeah, it's very far in the States. 00:20:54 Speaker 1: That's about a tank of gas at the minute. But well, congratulations, it's great to be able to tap into your expertise. Thank you for being with us. Colleen from bel Air has a question or a comment about sleep. Hello Colleen, you're speaking to Tracy and Danny. 00:21:08 Speaker 6: Yes, good evening, all. I would like to know whether sleep patterns are hereditary. And yeah, that was one of the questions. And I must admit in the last couple of years. Two years ago I had pneumonia very badly. Then I had a severe test infection last year, and well, nearly every day, every second day, I seem to have to have a two hour nap where I actually have to get into bed to sleep because I can't sleep in a chair or anywhere else. I know, I've created a pattern for myself, but that's the way it is. Should I be trying to do something else? 00:21:48 Speaker 3: Look, yeah, Colleen, sorry to hear about those episodes, which you know, some of these conditions can have lingering effects. And you you know a couple of questions in there. So the first one are your sleep patterns hereditary look like everything to some degree, The answer is probably yes. But and certainly certain sleep disorders are more heretary than others. You know, things like sleep apnar will often run in the family as well. You know, there's some very rare conditions that are indeed hereditary. You know, certain forms of insomnia and so forth, things like narcolepsy probably are to some degree as well. But again it's it's not necessarily the strongest factor your you're sort of hereditary background there. And the other thing you talked about is the sort of pattern that you've now found yourself in needing that extra nap after these conditions that you've had, and so look, it's if it's it comes back to is that pattern working for you and how are you feeling for the rest of the day. If it's not, there probably are some things you can do if you want to try and get optimized to sleep at nights. If it's interfering with yeah, your quality of life and the way that you're functioning throughout the day. 00:23:10 Speaker 6: Okay, because I do what I mean, I try to keep the same hours to going to bed there, but sometimes I can go to bed and I can still be awake at one point thirty, you know, that type of thing. But other days, if I have to get up and I can be busy, and I can go out and in and out all day, I don't seem to need to sleep. But it's when I'm just home, I just feel from home all day. I need the two hour sleep. 00:23:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, And look again, it depends on what you've got going on in your life and how much sleep you actually need and how much you're getting on a regular basis. But certainly our bodies love regularity. They do love that constant routine. And you mentioned that you try to get to bed at the same time every night, that is that is great advice. And but the other thing, if you're finding yourself waking up, you know, sometimes it can people can actually spend a little too long, you know, with sleep opportunities. So if you are finding yourself that that's that's an issue, then remembering that you know, typically sort of that seven to nine hour window is optimal, and so if you're finding that, you know, you're perhaps waking up in the night, you might want to look at just how much time you are spending in bed as well. 00:24:33 Speaker 1: Thank you, Colleen, appreciate a call. Double two three, double O double oh. Phones are an absolute nogo before sleep. 00:24:41 Speaker 3: Look, if you are struggling to get off to sleep, then the phones don't help. There's no doubt about it, Okay. And so whether it's it's a bit controversial as to whether the light that they emit affects our melatonin release, because these emit blue light, which can actually turn off that melotone and at least in some lab studies. But the other factor is, you know, the content that you tend to be looking at simulator stimulatory. It's not whinding the brain down, it's it's whinding it up. And so yes, we put the phones outside the bedroom and our family and and actually I don't let my kids have phones. So but my wife and I parked the phones you. 00:25:25 Speaker 2: Know, in the lead up to in the bedroom. 00:25:28 Speaker 3: And it's you know, it's so much better. Firstly, I get to talk to my wife and uh, you know we're not they're sitting on phones next to each other. And yeah, it's it's your sleep health will benefit from getting those phones out of the room. Absolutely. 00:25:43 Speaker 1: Is it more beneficial to be like Tracy and be all rugged up with like fluffy socks and you know, like nice jarmis or like me in a igloo with windows open, feeing on every night of the year as cool as possible. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: Cool versus water can get the menopause. And memo, by the way, oh. 00:26:03 Speaker 1: It's just trying to use yours the opposite a medal, and she loves the fluffy socks. 00:26:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, there are there is a bit of an optimal temperature for sleep, but like you know, sleep itself, that varies between people. And you know, we were briefly talking during the break about sleep divorce and that is, you know, sleeping in a separate bedroom into your partner, and that's not not uncommon becoming more common actually, as you know, sleep disorders and other things are on the increase. So one thing you can do if you know, for example, if your bed partner's running at a different temperature

than you, you can get two different quilts, you know, and you know people don't even think of that, two single kings, you know, next to each other. Maybe someone you know like the heart and the other one does not. Then you know, that's a simple solution there, But no, it's it's what is comfortable for you. Our body temperature dips, you know, about three or four in the morning when we get what's got our circadian idea, and that's part of sleeping. Is our body kind of cooling off and get getting rid of heat? 00:27:07 Speaker 1: Is it bad to eat just before you sleep? Should you have a grace period between? So Madlin goes home after midnight with a boyfriend and they have a full dinner and then they go to bed, whereas I at five o'clock and I won't eat now till tomorrow. 00:27:21 Speaker 3: And look again, it comes back to what works for you if you are struggling to sleep. You know, in general we don't recommend big, heavy meals right prior to sleep. Listen, sorry about that man. 00:27:33 Speaker 2: In Madlan's defense, you have better digestive power at twenty two than you do it. 00:27:38 Speaker 1: And she's twenty. I said, how do you sleep? She goes, Oh, you woke up at one this morning. This afternoon, it's like one o'clock. Oh no, can you imagine how good is that? Jenny from Allenby Gardens, you're speaking to Danny and Tracy Hiley and. 00:27:52 Speaker 4: The heart Tasting Lace who Professor Danny, that's truly so I think my way to el start last month I turned seventy nine, and I'm a war widow because through my barrier he had a sweep up new machine and it didn't bother me. But for years I had my babies in the twenties, so for years I did not duty and fift work. So I just don't sleep. I can't sleep. I just sleep, you know, wherever I am, just when I need to. I stay up all night and I read. I love reading. And I've had breastpanther and I've survived, and I fell down a cellar. I don't remember any of it. I was in a coma for nine weeks and then hospital for three months. And I see a specialist you might know him called Aaron Hoe. Doctor Aaron oh, no, doctor Aaron o h h. And he we have a shake hands. He's not allowed to call my whatever it is, anything but the spot, and he's not allowed to touch it. And he said, well, I can't anyway, because if I did, it's too close to your author. And I said, right, well, we just don't talk about it. So it's given me trilogy thing to pump in the mouth, and then you've got to clean your teeth. So I just wonder, why, what is going on because I don't want to hear about it from him because I'm scared he might do something. Well. 00:29:59 Speaker 3: Happy belated birthday firstly, but it sounds like, you know, there's been a bit going on. And look, what I would say is one thing that you identified was, you know, when the kids were young, that's when you remember getting into that pattern of disruptive sleep. And that's not uncommon when you're you know, raising little ones, feeding them around the clock. It is a great

disruptor of our sleep. And as you said, yeah, during those phase, young parents try and get sleep whenever they can, but it can also be a bit of a trigger for some prolonged you know, disrupted sleep patterns and problems thereafter. But what I will say is, you know, if that's something you're struggling with, it's never too late to fix it. We you know, we have people that come to our center who have had insomnia or sleep issues for ten, twenty, thirty, sometimes forty years, and you know, the team takes a comprehensive look, get to the bottom of what's going on for you and tries to solve that. So there are things you can do. 00:31:08 Speaker 1: Well done. Thank you, Jenny, appreciate the call a double two to three double O double if you'd like to join us, Danny and Tracy taking your calls on sleep and sleep apnea. Tracy, you need to see you from the Ballet Pharmacy and our very special guest, new friend of show. We've got a sleep expert here Flinders University Professor Professor Danny Eckertt, College of Medicine and Public Health, Human Sleep, Respiratory Physiology, sleep apnea Guru. He can answer all of the questions. 00:31:34 Speaker 2: Star of Australian Australia Sleep Revolution with Michael Matley. 00:31:38 Speaker 1: Yes that's right, SBS on demand. You can still see it online there. 00:31:42 Speaker 2: Great series, three part series I was. 00:31:45 Speaker 1: Reading about you today, dedicated to advancing knowledge into the causes of sleep apnea, developing new treatments. On the board of the Australasian Sleep Association, the peak body and chair of the Research Committee or a busy man. 00:31:58 Speaker 3: Yes, I did that role for seven years now I'm no longer the chair, but I'm on the committee. But yeah, lots to do in terms of raising awareness about the importance of sleep. As we've been discussing a little bit in the break, it's you know, roughly a billion people around the planet have obstructive sleep out here, and yeah, the implications for people's lives are enormous. 00:32:22 Speaker 1: Noticing a trend with our callers, a lot of them have stress. How big an issue is that when it comes to disruption of sleep. 00:32:29 Speaker 3: Look, I'm sure we've all experienced that at different times in our life and the impact it can have on our sleep. And yeah, not surprisingly, high stress can be difficult to go to sleep or get a good night's sleep. 00:32:43 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And inversely, I was an anti enatal educator for twenty odd years where we used to tell people, you know, sleep deprivation is a form of torture. How hard is everything else in your life or in your world when you're sleep prived everything? And that in turn then causes more stress. 00:33:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it just piles on top, don't it. 00:33:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, it can be this vicious cycle. And you know, I guess just to put some numbers on it. If we are awake for nineteen hours in a row, your blood alcohol concentration equivalent in terms of

your performance is point oh five. So you're now legally intoxicated being awake for nineteen hours. If you extend that to twenty four hours, it's now point one, so you're double the legal limit. 00:33:30 Speaker 1: See I've been drunk. I don't drink alcohol, and yet i'm probably point oh five most nights, to be fair. Wow, that's amazing, isn't it. That would make sense though, because you do feel I'm assuming all of those side effects that people have. Before we get to more callers, Natalie says, loving this segment with the professor, Thank you so much. I would like some advice there's been Is there a correlation between sleep and migraines. I've got chronic migraines for twenty four years. Generally wake up in full attack mode with a migraine every morning around four. Then I can't stop the migraine last for days. I go to bed with no headache or migraine. I'm a very deep sleeper, but I always wake up with a thumping headache, pain and vomiting. Could this be sleep ap near? Is it something worth looking into? 00:34:14 Speaker 3: Oh gosh. As a fellow migraine suffer, I'm so sorry to hear that you're struggling with those two. Look, there could be, as you alluded to, there could be some sleep disruption that's triggering that or it could be our Cicadian rhythms, you know, things like your lung function. You're more likely to have asthma when you're at your set what we call your Cicadian idea, or your lowest body temperature in those early hours in the morning. Now, I'm not specifically aware that that is a trigger for migraine, but it may well be. Or as you suggest, if you're getting those low oxygen levels and not breathing enough due to sleep apena, then that could also be a potential trigger as well. 00:35:00 Speaker 1: Slade says on the text, if you have sleep apnea, is it just as simple as putting a mask on and that's it done? Period, No more sleep apnea. 00:35:08 Speaker 3: For some people. Yeah, And you know SEAPOP, the continuous positive airway pressure therapy putting the mask on invented here in Australia. Better ifit's millions of people around the planet now and it's it is a great pet therapy for many Some people have been struggling for years. They come, they put the SEAPAP mask on all of us. You know that all of a sudden they start dreaming again, wake up refreshed, no morning headaches, the fatigue goes down. It can act very quickly for some. The trouble is that is not necessarily the norm. Roughly half of everyone who's prescribed seapap therapy a year later, you know, won't be using or can't use it, and others are you knows, about fifteen percent of the population is claustrophobic and they may physically struggle to wear the mask. So this is where we and others are working very hard on alternate treatments to help all the folks that can't tolerate the seapap. 00:36:04 Speaker 1: Is there new technology that's not the big mask and the hose and all the big machine, and has it got better over time? 00:36:10 Speaker 3: Super exciting, lots of things going on. So right now we don't have any drugs approved for sleep app near, although I'm pleased to say we are close. And you know, as I mentioned, I've been in this field for twenty five years. But now we've understood what's kind of causing that airway closure and it does vary between people, and so when we've been able to, along with my colleagues in Boston, develop some agents that increase the muscles around the airway and keep that airway open. So hopefully that will be here soon. It's sort of pending approval at the FDA and the United States at the moment. But then we've got we've got oral appliances or mouthguards that are fitted by the dentists that pull the jaw for We've got devices that give you a little buzz when you're sleeping on your back and for some people just getting them to sleep on their slight side can open up the airway and help with things. We've got upper airway surgery to remove you know, anatomical issues in the airway and open up that airway. We're currently doing several studies looking at like a pacemaker for the heart, but these are pacemakers for the muscles around the airway. So we implant these devices in theater and electrically stimulate the muscles to open the airway. And so that's that's super exciting as well. Things like you know, roughly half of the people will sleep apnia. So many people will sleep apnia are not overweight or obese, but those who are. Things like and we were one of two Australian sites that studied one of the weight loss agents and that roughly half sleep apnea, severity. 00:37:52 Speaker 1: Zimbi yeah, exactly. 00:37:54 Speaker 3: And so this was a kind of global study that we're involved with and it it wasn't It wasn't as EMPI was another one. But yes, that that worked well over over a year. So we're now getting all these different solutions and we can start combining some of these too if the sea PAP doesn't work. So it's a very exciting time. 00:38:13 Speaker 1: Good news. Ian from Salisbury down to speaking to Tracy and Danny. 00:38:17 Speaker 7: Ian, good evening. 00:38:19 Speaker 6: All. 00:38:20 Speaker 7: Hey in Tracy, Tracy, I spoke to you about eighteen months ago or so about aid trouble sleeping. Right anyway, I've had trouble sleeping for about seventy years. I know it's doubt since I was about twenty. I've had this trouble sleeping anyway. Here about five six weeks ago, I called in the local chemist and I spoke to the woman chemists there, told them I the situation, and she said to me, oh, I might be able to help you, and she said, wrote down the tablets I wanted. She said take that to your doctor and getting to get to a script, which I did. I got these tablets. 00:39:07 Speaker 6: I know. 00:39:08 Speaker 7: I slept every night since and there they are a tablet I can't. I don't remember the name. But there are a tablets they use for Parkinson's disease. 00:39:21 Speaker 2: Something like matapak. The button is that something like matapata Do you

remember? No, that's the most common one that I can think of. Either, or it's something like am a trip to lene. 00:39:38 Speaker 1: Or legs prescribed? That would be good though. Suddenly, if it's prescribed, that's a good thing from the doctor. 00:39:46 Speaker 2: Do you know the name of it? 00:39:47 Speaker 3: I just. 00:39:53 Speaker 1: Talking about you go and find that while Ian's finding that. I know people are going overseas and they load up on military because you can buy it over the counter in America versus prescription. Here is that a good thing for people to be doing is melotone in a helpful assistance for sleep. 00:40:09 Speaker 3: So melatone is a naturally occurring hormone that gets released a couple of hours in the lead up to sleep. All sorts of sort of neurochemical changes occur in the body actually throughout the day and then particularly into those those last couple of hours before sleep. So yes, it's an important regulator of our sleep and modify. You can use it to kind of modify where your body clock is sitting. It's not a particularly potent what we call sedative or hypnotic. It's a very weak one. And the challenge is well a few challenges. One is you do not know what you're buying when you go and buy these agents over the counter, and the states the quality of the studies they've done. Looking at the quality, they are often not the same dose that they'll say on the bottle, and there's sometimes you know, there's there's all sorts of issues there, so you've got to be really careful to get good quality. 00:41:01 Speaker 2: Product isn't regulated. 00:41:03 Speaker 3: Doses are not regulator, which is an issue, and it's if you don't If you take the melotone at the wrong time, it can have a counterproductive effect. It can make your sleep worse, so people don't you know, you could either advance or delay your your body clock depending on when you take it. So it's actually got to be done really carefully, and you know, it can help with things in the short term for jet lag and things, can help move your body clack a little quicker than it would otherwise, but you absolutely have to have it in the right time. Otherwise you can do yourself and disservice. 00:41:37 Speaker 1: But now the Trump's president they're not going back anytime soon, so it doesn't matter. Did you find your medication? 00:41:43 Speaker 7: Yeah, Ram texxon? Is that Ranger Bell? 00:41:48 Speaker 2: What one's sorry? 00:41:49 Speaker 1: Ram a Texan. 00:41:52 Speaker 3: PRM. 00:41:54 Speaker 2: It's a fairly new one. I think, well maybe I'm isn't it? But yeah, it's just come out in a generic. 00:42:01 Speaker 1: So okay, we'll have a look. But if that works for you, that's great. Thank you, Ian, appreciate the call. Just before we get to Helen. As someone of your expertise, when you're a professor, you must roll your eyes at some of the things you see on social media. You know, these videos come out where people the big one for people that and again it pops up

in my feed and my algorithm kicks in because I don't get a lot of sleep. I see a lot of people talking about taping your mouth, about mouth breathing. That will fix it. That's the new alixa that we don't need medicines and all the rest of it. Does it work? Is it worth trying? Is it complete? Hod wash? 00:42:37 Speaker 3: Okay, because yes, this one does seem to come up a lot. And let's go through the physiology. So when you go to sleep, the natural way that you should breathe is through your nose that it humidifies the air and that's the natural root of breathing that is healthy and normal. So if you find yourself breathing through your mouth, it may be a sign that there are other issues going on. Of course, since sleep happening, people's air ways are closing and rather than just breathing through their nose, they'll often be taking big breaths through their mouth to kind of get that air when they can, and hence they often wake up with a dry mouth. And again that's a sign of oral breath. So maybe a sign of sleep aten you if you've got a dry mouth or notice that you're breathing through your mouth. So and then when you put tape on, that may not you know, it's unlikely to solve the issue. If you've got a collapsible air way, just putting a bit of tape over your lips is not likely to fix the underlying issue and actually it can make it worse. So if you've got a blocked nose, like there's an issue that's obstructing. Maybe you've got a deviated septum or other structural issues that mean you can't breathe through your nose. Now you've got tape over your mouth, you're even worse off and you're likely to suck that airway closed even more. And the thing that I always worry about when I hear about this trend is, you know, with sleep apn your reflux is quite common, and so I'm always concerned about aspiration risk if you've got tape over your mouth and maybe you know certainly wouldn't want to do it after you've been drinking and things like that, because you know, even more of a risk of aspiration and you know, causing serious arms. 00:44:12 Speaker 1: Have you seen that people are putting gaffer on their mouth before they go to bed, literally closing up their mouth so that their body naturally breathes through the nose to get better sleep. 00:44:22 Speaker 2: I haven't seen that, but I agree with Danny that's silly, you know, and a lot of people actually have seasonal allergies on your ciders things like that that restrict airflow through the nose. You restricted even more and you're going to end up with a bigger problem. 00:44:36 Speaker 1: Like literally gaffer. It's crazy, but these are the things. And then people go, well, it's on the internet, so it must be true. They're trying it out, which is crazy. Helen from Plympton, you're speaking to Tracy and Danny. Helen, Hello, I've. 00:44:49 Speaker 8: Got a couple of things I want to talk about. My husband actually suffers from periodic limb movement syndrome, and I'm wondering whether the gentleman was talking about shift roll, the medication that was recommended that helped him sleep. 00:45:06 Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't actually clear on the spelling of the other ones, but ciprols used for yeah, the restless legs, and I think that can be an interrupted to sleep, huge barrier to sleep if someone suffers from those jecky movements and their uncontrolled twitching things like that. 00:45:23 Speaker 8: So my husband wore out two flannelette sheet by his continuous moving. I left the bed to be honest with you, it was so frequent that I wasn't sleeping anyway. 00:45:33 Speaker 2: He was dangerous too. 00:45:35 Speaker 8: So the medication has worked well, so brilliant. 00:45:39 Speaker 2: So they've nailed any sleeping better. 00:45:42 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, see, than I am too. I actually have sleeped a near myself and have a seapap machine. Doctor was just talking about the reflex or Danny, I have a hernia that became a sliding her near and it refluxed into my larynx and surry, and that reflux into my lymphoid tissue at the back of my tongue, giving me what they call lingual tonsils. And it was not a pleasant experience. So anyone who's got a hernia and they've got sleep up near, don't hesitate to not wear your mask because he wouldn't want what I had. It felt like someone was trying to strangle me around my throat. 00:46:27 Speaker 2: Horrible. 00:46:27 Speaker 8: When I let coward, I actually felt nauseated and even just cleaning my teeth. It took me nine months after seeing an ent specialist and treating it aggressively to come good. And it can recur, I believe so. But yeah, I would certainly not hesitate. If you've got sleep up near and a reflux from a hernia, you need the machine otherwise it will encourage this other problem. 00:46:56 Speaker 2: It's a good reminder for people to get checked and have these sensible conversations with their GP. You know, if you're getting reflux more than once or twice a week, if you're you know, you've got a history of whether it's hieruthurni or whatever's going on there. Get those things followed up, because if you then notice you're not sleeping as well, or you're not feeling as refreshed, there's a good chance you possibly do have the sleep app near as well. So have those conversations. Make a list of things that you want to talk to your GP about before you go excuse me, so you're not sitting there in that consult going, oh, I had a couple of questions, but I can't think of them now You're five minutes is up. But make those questions a list, because then the doctor can start putting those little links together and then come up with the same excuse me, the hypothesis that you have. Helen that and it's a really good reminder for people to, yeah, have those conversations and get followed up. 00:47:56 Speaker 1: Thank you, Helen. Appreciate the call on the text. This one from Tipo see professor trouble sleeping, lucky to get five hours. When I do wake up, what is the best thing for me to do? Do I stay in bit,

do I toss and turn? Do I stare at the ceiling? Is it best for me to get up and do something? 00:48:14 Speaker 3: General recommendation if you are waking up too early and struggling to get off to sleep, give yourself no more than twenty minutes in the bedroom, then get out and put yourself in a dark, quiet room until you feel tired again, and then go back in and try again. 00:48:31 Speaker 1: As an elite cyclist, exercise before bed or no. Does it help your sleep if you do a little bit. 00:48:38 Speaker 3: Of Look, the evidence on this is mixed, and it probably depends on the type of exercise you do and exactly when you do it. Traditionally, you know that the messaging has been you know, hold off from very vigorous exercise right before sleep because you know I can take the heart rate a little while to go down and therefore relax and get off to sleep. But again it probably depends on the individual what works for them. But in general, if you are find it that's a problem for you, which is uncommon. If it's vigorous exercise and you're struggling to get off to sleep and wind down afterwards, do everything you can to kind of bring that a little earlier so it doesn't get into your sleep time. 00:49:20 Speaker 1: One for you Tracy from Evan, What is a good thing for beside us in the shoulder head for six months and inflammatories? Anything else? I can do. I'm doing physio a little bit. Anything you can add. 00:49:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, physio is a really big factor in that one. Anti inflammatories. If you're looking for medicinal ones, obviously have a chat with the GP. If you're looking for something a bit more natural, you can try some tumeric. I get good results with the Parmatoori ethanolamone. That's one that works really quite well for bursus. I've read a couple of studies that correlate the best sideis with deficiencies in B twelve. As to how true that is, I'm not in how it accurate those studies were, but I would be looking at for me, it would be the parmatarli ethan all of mine. 00:50:05 Speaker 1: Give the pe you go good only Evan. Thank you for that, professor, Thank you for coming in. What a fascinating evening. Please come back and do this again for us at some stage. 00:50:14 Speaker 3: We'd be very happy to And I hope your listeners sleep well. 00:50:18 Speaker 1: Where do we find you? What do we need to know? You've got the years of adelaide. Can we help you? Can you help uss well? What's the best thing for us to know? 00:50:25 Speaker 3: Look, if people are interested in volunteering from one of our research studies. At any given time, we've got forty or fifty different studies on the guards. You can log into our website at Flinder's Health and Medical Research Institute Sleep Health. There's a button you can press putting your information in our volunteers registry and tell us a bit about your sleeping issues and we'll reach out to you for one of the upcoming studies. And if you do have a concern that you've got to sleep the sort of please do have a chat with your GP. And yeah, we have a clinical service too, so we can help. And we have fantastic where doesn't sleep psychologists that you know do a fantastic job with insomnia and related issues. 00:51:08 Speaker 1: Awesome, I'm going to check that out. Can I ask you one more before we find out where we find you? Tracy? So what do you if you can't sleep? The old adage of sort of counting sheep, you know, or counting whatever I've heard experts talk about mentally imagine a square and run your eyes across, up, across, down, like do any of those kind of thing? Is there in all your expertise, is there something that you found works for you that maybe I can try if you're sitting there having finished a radio show, hoping you get to sleep before two hours. Is there something I can try? 00:51:41 Speaker 3: You can watch the Tour de France. It'll do a great job. 00:51:45 Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, look how beautiful the landscape he is, and you know, look at the rolling hills, and I'll give that a try. Maybe I'll just have that on repeat. Tracy, where do we find you? Do you sleep well? Generally like a log? 00:51:56 Speaker 2: My nickname was the doll. I sit up and my eyes open and I lay down and I'm gone. 00:52:00 Speaker 1: I'm so envious of anyone that cold fall asleep sitting up. 00:52:03 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I can. I remember hiring a movie so many times once that the video shop gave it to me. I'd never got to see it because I kept falling asleep. 00:52:13 Speaker 1: Here my mummy saying this. So Cornsey when we used to do the sports show, he would walk in and he would just before the show started at four o'clock, he would tild his head back. He would catch flies for like ten minutes, just mouth open, like just a little power and appen. Cag and I were going about our day doing our thing. It was out like a light. We were so envious that in amongst a busy office and phone dringing and noise and all that kind of stuff, he could literally just have that little as you said, I guess the micro sleep that they tell you when you drive to have if you're doing long distance ten minutes bang, and then he was refreshed and going. Can't do that me neither. Wouldn't you love to do that? That would be blissed? 00:52:49 Speaker 2: And can I just clarify in drug Wars Sifro it's their generic form cro cyprol. 00:52:55 Speaker 1: Where do we find you? Tracy? 00:52:57 Speaker 2: Easy to find Mondays and Tuesdays between nine and five. I have up at the Blair Pharmacy, ten Main Road, Blair. If you can't get in and give us a call on two seven, eight one, nine six one. 00:53:10 Speaker 1: New business doesn't roll off as easy anymore, does it? 00:53:13 Speaker 7: No? 00:53:13 Speaker 2: It does? 00:53:14 Speaker 1: You want to go again? 00:53:15 Speaker 2: It's a bit a big week eight nineteen sixty. 00:53:18 Speaker 1: One, Mike says, see pap change my life. If you've got sleep happening, you get it checked out, get a machine. The best thing you can

ever do for your health, says Mike. 00:53:28 Speaker 3: Love it. 00:53:29 Speaker 2: And before we go, huge congratulations to our next door neighbors at work, banana boogie for winning the best bakery in the country, not. 00:53:38 Speaker 1: Acknowledging it until we see so I don't know if I believe that story. Dark congratulations, well done? How goods that order? 00:53:44 Speaker 3: Again? 00:53:45 Speaker 1: What did you bring us last week? 00:53:46 Speaker 5: Before? 00:53:47 Speaker 2: It was in South Australia? This was national? 00:53:49 Speaker 1: This is that's right. They blitzed here and they went national and blitzed there. What did you bring us last time? 00:53:54 Speaker 2: The vanilla slice and sausage roll because that was their two winners. 00:53:57 Speaker 3: Yes, slice is amazing. I ride my bike up just to get one of those there. 00:54:02 Speaker 1: So well you can do that. You're right, you're burning it off. All that makes sense and Margie can have the final words. She says, a breathe through my mouth when I'm sleeping. I suffer from sinus, allergies, Hey, fever asthma? Is this bad for all of these things? How do you breathe through your nose, professor, when I'm sleeping, when I've got all these issues? 00:54:18 Speaker 3: Look again, it sounds like there's some maybe a bit of atopia or some other allergy type issues there that might be making it more difficult to breathe through your nose. So there are some medications that can help with that. And again it'd be worth having a chat with whoever's looking after a condition. 00:54:38 Speaker 1: We've had a couple of people say can you please give your website again? It must have been when you were saying that, I thought, gude, that's the longest you are ould of all time. 00:54:44 Speaker 3: Look at it. Look you'll put the. 00:54:46 Speaker 1: Link up on social so that people can find it. But what's it called again? 00:54:49 Speaker 3: Basically, if you just type in Flinder's University Sleep Health, you will find us. But the actual our unit is a bit of a mouthful. It's called the Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute or Fimery Flagship Sleep Health Program. Yes, we used to be called the Adelaide Institute for Sleep Health or ASH. Again, if you put any of those things in, you will find us in a Google search. 00:55:14 Speaker 1: And first thing that comes up Flinders University Sleep Health. 00:55:18 Speaker 3: And all of that information is there if you're just in the clinical service as a button the press, if you're interested in volunteering for our research, as a button to press. 00:55:25 Speaker 1: We'll put that on the socials. Last one, I know this is my fourth last question, but see this is the problem when you come in Tracy with a topic because you have to come back last one. We've only just met, so this is probably a bit personal. You're leaving here right now. It's called a to tent. What time are you going to sleep? And what are you doing between now and sleep? 00:55:41 Speaker 3: Well, I rode my bike in here, so I'll be getting on my bike and riding up the hill usually. 00:55:47 Speaker 1: By now I am to be tonight. 00:55:49 Speaker 3: Yeah I'm in Terrence Park. 00:55:51 Speaker 1: But yes, okay, so your body's going to be like you'll be at tilt when you, you know, will calm down. 00:55:58 Speaker 3: I will walk in because I'm better at cycling than I am walking. I will once I get through the door, my head will hit the pillow and I will be lights out until the morning. Really, yep, I. 00:56:10 Speaker 1: Feel like well done. I'm even more impressed you wore a jacket considering your road in, thinking you had to dress for us. You didn't get the memo we are slobs here. 00:56:19 Speaker 3: I gave a talk at the hospital just before coming here. 00:56:23 Speaker 1: Either way, I appreciate it. Suits and cleats, it's a good look. Thanks so much for coming in, Donny. Great to see you, Tracy, lovely to see you. 00:56:29 Speaker 2: Thank you. Great to be here and thank you for Danny for sharing his time, expertise, knowledge. We are very blessed. 00:56:38 Speaker 1: Thanks. Please come back anytime. Professor Dannyeckett and Tracy yin our guest