บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Burnout, Hyper Independence & Your Nervous System! ft. Francesca Blechner

was unlike any business or networking event I've ever been to, obviously. Francesca: Mm. David Bancroft: I think people seemed freer in their conversations. They seemed to be more... almost more generous with their time. I don't know why. I just think sometimes when you're in four walls and you're in an expo or an event space, people seem hurried. You know, Francesca: Mm. David Bancroft: I'm, I'm regularly exhibiting at business expos and it's the weirdest thing. People have, sometimes paid for a ticket or even if it's free to, they've arrived at an expo. And then when you attempt to speak to people, they seem to be a little standoffish. no, I don't possibly want to talk. it's. you what you're doing here? This is really, I can't really understand Francesca: Interesting. Yeah. David Bancroft: it, but actually at Ideas Fest, everyone was up for a conversation. Francesca: Yeah. David Bancroft: actually the amount of conversations that I had personally that were completely unexpected with professionals and verticals that I never would have probably practically targeted that I really felt I learned from was, yeah, I'd say unlike anything I've ever been a part of before. So I'll be back next year. I don't know, how about you? Francesca: Yeah, I'd love to go back for sure. Definitely. Yeah. David Bancroft: Get on the stage next to your friend, what do you think? Francesca: Yeah, I'm up for that, for sure. Cause there was actually a few talks similar to some of the topics I speak about and I'm really passionate about that David Bancroft: That's what I thinking, yeah. Francesca: and bringing that into the business world. So yeah, I'll definitely be applying to speak. David Bancroft: Speak to Frankie, the organizer. She'll hook Francesca: Yes. David Bancroft: you up, no doubt, get you on stage, that'd be awesome. But no, Francesca: Yeah, I'd love that. David Bancroft: I loved it. Shall we talk about throwing balls into Yeti's mouth or should we leave that one to history and pretend no one noticed? Francesca: Ha ha We can bring it up. I have no shame on that. Yes, we that's how we met through the I was rubbish at the throwing that game. David Bancroft: The Yeti throat, yes. Okay, all right, well, you said it and in fairness, in fairness, my first attempt, I didn't get any either. So if it's in consolation, you and I were as good as each other. Francesca: it looked like it was gonna be easy. I was I went in full confident, yeah. David Bancroft: Everyone said that. Everyone said that. It's, don't know, there's something. Yeah, it was, was tough, wasn't it? It was tough. We'll blame the wind in the field or something like that. Francesca: It was. There was pretty sh but we but we got to speak and connect and have a laugh about it and and hence David Bancroft: what it's all about. Francesca: this is how I'm here now. So I appreciate David Bancroft: think it was one of the better activations in the whole event actually was Snowball, sort of the igloo vibe that obviously Sadie and the team had set up and the Yeti and they were doing the tattoos. You wouldn't believe how many people turned up and actually thought they were getting real tattoos rather than temporary ones, which is in itself pretty wild, isn't it? It's just like, I've come for my tattoo. Francesca: That's a s yeah, that's a spontaneous decision, my goodness, at a festival. Yeah. Okay. I'll just take a have a permanent tattoo. David Bancroft: It is, yeah. Yeah, there you go. it was good. And as you say, it's connected us and I can't wait for this. So kicking off and just following on from your own intro, and as always, you put it really well. Obviously you have spent considerable amount of time now in the health and wellbeing industry. Your work, as you referenced in today, looks very different from where you started. I guess what first attracted you to personal training, going right back now, and what changed your thinking about what it really means to be healthy? Francesca: Mm, wow. well, do you know what? I I I'm one of those people who when I was a teenager, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I was either gonna be like an activities organiser, do you know one of those holiday activity organizers, or a pi No, David Bancroft: Well, 1830 or... Francesca: not like that. Like, you know, where they I I don't know, organise sports and stuff at like holiday camps. David Bancroft: Got you. Yes. The animation team. Francesca: Yeah. or a PE teacher or a personal trainer. I did p at at David Bancroft: Cool. Francesca: as part of my uni, I did I went back to my old school to do work experience as a PE teacher. And after that I decided no, that wasn't for me. Because they they spent you spent you spent half the lesson trying to convince people to get changed. So honestly. That was what P that's what PE has turned into. So I was like, no, I don't want to do this. And and it was personal training. My my mum trained as a fitness instructor and and in sports massage and arome therapy. So I kind of grew up with that in the household and I was going to the gym when I was like fourteen, fifteen, and it was my hap David Bancroft: really? Francesca: it was my happy place. Yeah, I'd go on guest passes with my mum and I was just it was my happy place and and so I when I left college, it as in A levels at that time, I I did my personal training fitness diploma when I was seventeen, eighteen and yeah. David Bancroft: Yeah, amazing. And that, as you say, that was the route. And so how long were you a PT for then? Francesca: up in really I I guess you know I'm I'm I'm multidisciplinary in what I do, but from I I was working part-time in gyms from 18 and through my uni time. I studied sport and exercise science at uni. And then when I left uni, I was about I already had a job at a, you know, big health club. So it was from about 2000 and I think it was two, I started building up my personal training client base and I built up a full a full-time business from then.

And then really I phased it out in 2021 actually. But I David Bancroft: Okay. Francesca: was I was already working, I'd already transitioning to more of the holistic stuff, more of the breath work, emotional release work, and embodiment work. So Yeah, twenty twenty one 'cause we do we'd gone online and I just never went back to the gym. I so yeah, I guess good eighteen, twenty years. Sounds crazy. David Bancroft: obviously I want to speak to you a lot about the breath work and some of the other aspects there, but just as a follow on to that first question, was there a moment during your personal training that you sort of realized that being physically fit didn't necessarily mean that you're actually healthy? Does that make sense? Francesca: Yeah, absolutely. well, a lot of fitness back back then in the early two thousands, it was about nutrition, what you ate, and exercising, you know, how active. There wasn't really they weren't really taking into account the emotional landscape or trauma or past trauma. So then it was after a while it's like, well, why are some clients getting results and some aren't? Or some go back into habits. And so it's not not always a really addressing. the emotional components. it's not just about like the exercise and the nutrition. But I also trained in holistic lifestyle coaching and a very holistic lens from, you know, the early 2000s as well, where I had learnt about the impact of stress on hormones, sleep and circadian rhythms, all of these things. So I was bringing that into my clients, which at that time was quite I guess ahead of ahead of the game, it was almost always David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: also almost a bit strange. But I think what David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: I realized is, yeah, over time it's I started to see and I was working with in sports massage and bodywork. So I'd see clients with like pain and injury. But then it would get better, but it would come keep coming back. So it was like, well, what is a recurring issue? Why is it coming back? And it always stemmed down to the emotions. Emotional landscape, David Bancroft: Really? Francesca: yeah, past trauma, what was going on in in their life. And so without addressing that, it was you can't just work with the physical body, you have to look at the whole lens. And mental, emotional, the energetic, the spiritual. You know, so many people that came to me, one of the things they would often say is that I just feel disconnected from my body. I just want to feel connected to myself. So there's this there's that there's and that's a spiritual disconnect. Because if you're not connected to yourself, there's a spiritual disconnect. So it doesn't matter how much how well you're David Bancroft: Yeah. Yeah. Francesca: eating, that's gonna help. But if that connection's not there, it's like you're there's a there's an an unplugging. David Bancroft: Mm, mm. It's really interesting to say that because I think I spoke to someone a little while ago and whilst it wasn't exactly what you're talking about here, she referenced her techniques in the past as being seen as a bit woo woo, I think was the word she used, which was her phrasing, but it's because it was out there in as far as people hadn't necessarily heard it, hadn't necessarily understood it. hadn't comprehended that there may be something other than just physically, this is on a scan, this is in your blood work, this is on an X-ray Francesca: Yeah. David Bancroft: or something of that kind. And yeah, she had worked extensively on progressing this particular field. And it is difficult, isn't it, to get past perception sometimes and not only identify, but then actually challenge what we might be used to. I think one of the areas that you specialize in, and I mentioned it in the intro, think is nervous system regulation. Francesca: Mm. David Bancroft: is something I've heard a little bit more about, although really novice. And I suspect that lots of people, as I'm saying, don't necessarily understand that. So can you explain then in simple terms what it means and how it affects the way that we think, the way that we behave, and the way that maybe we respond to everyday challenges? Francesca: Yeah, perfect. Thank you for bringing that up because there is so much about nervous system work at the moment and nervous system regulation. And there is a misconception that nervous system regulation means like being calm and relaxed all the time. But actually, what nervous system regulation means is the ability to move through the whole spectrum of human emotions. You're a human. We're human beings. We are meant to feel. We are have an emotional landscape and we sometimes label emotions as of that's a good emotion that's bad emotion that's positive that's negative and what often happens is those perceived negative emotions people avoid or they disconnect with their think that's bad I don't want to feel that but actually you're human being and you are meant to feel the whole range of hum of human emotions the re to to regulate is to be able to move those enable them to move them through your system so that you can expand your capacity. And so that so that you own them rather than they own you. Because David Bancroft: Nice. Francesca: what otherwise what happens is that we go, anger, I don't know how to feel or process that, so I'm just gonna stuff it down. And that that creates a disharmony in the body, it creates a d what's called a dissonance, it creates that a like an oscillation where it's out of out of rhythm. And then that compounds and it builds up, it builds up, and they that builds up into areas in the body that can lead to chronic pain because we're just not wanting to look at it. Whereas regulation David Bancroft: Mm, mm, mm. Francesca: is the ability to come back into that coherent state, but also to move into to enable those emotions to express but to be moved through your system. So it doesn't get David Bancroft: Yes. Francesca: stuck

in your physiology, basically. David Bancroft: Awesome. What was the Disney Pixar film when you had these characters which represented different, one of them was anger or rage, one of them was happiness. What was that film called? No, Francesca: Smurfs. It's not s not that's what c I know that's not Disney. David Bancroft: there was, God, what was it? was one of them is literally, he's red and he's angry and his head Francesca: yeah. David Bancroft: explodes and I'm gonna. I'm going to Google it in a minute and we'll circle back on that one. Following on from that, if someone's having a particularly stressful day at work, and that will probably be familiar for a lot of people, is there something that you can do just simply that can perhaps help yourself to reset or... Francesca: Mm, well, I mean, yeah, that this is a very common one. I mean, I would say the breath is a is so important because you're breathing, you're breathing 26 roughly 26,000 times a day. And so how you breathe, your breath is a mirror to your emotional landscape. Your breath has the ability to literally influence your emotions. So one thing very very simple and easy and I'm all about simplicity and easy is just to stop, pause, boot take a few breaths into the belly. Because that what happens is that sends a signal to the brain that okay I'm I'm safe. I don't need to be in this high alert, the fight and flight, and David Bancroft: Yes. Francesca: starts to reduce the lower blood pressure and things like that. And also It's really important at work, especially if somebody is the boss or the leader, their stress patterns, there's something called stress contagion. So it's like the leader of the pack. So whoever is the boss, the leader will in will entrain the entire team to match their their stress their blood, their stress chemical, their stress chemistry. like women who sync up with their menstrual cycle, it's the same. So the the leader, the the boss, if they have high stress levels, they have high cortisol running through their bloodstream, essentially everyone around them is picking that up and they will rise to their stress levels. Not good. David Bancroft: Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no. Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's interesting. And listeners of the show will know that for me, my escape from day-to-day work, etc., is martial arts and specifically karate. I read, think that you were interested in capoeira. And Francesca: Yeah. David Bancroft: one of the things that within martial arts is really important. I don't know if this would be the same for your style, but... is breathing, you know, very much a part of everything that we do is anchored on breath work and, you know, controlling breathing, whether it be through strikes, whether it be through defenses, whether it be through being thrown, you know, in some of the techniques, the cat is the key on breathing is as important as anything. Does that, is that the same for capoeira? Is it something that you train and practice in much or? Francesca: Yeah, used to train in Capoeira for about seven, eight years. I haven't trained for many years now because my my teachers went to Brazil. But I'm really grateful for that training and that practice because how I didn't see it at the time, but now as I reflect back, how that translates into business, into entrepreneurship, into David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: energy, into the flow of energy into focus into agility into so many things there's so many gifts in that that translates to everyday life is profound and I know my partner he trained in karate and does martial arts to this day but yeah David Bancroft: Awesome. Francesca: it is it massively translates because for example with capoeira we we didn't learn specifically breathing but you but you have to be able to breathe of course because But so many things that Capoeira is a combination of of dance, martial arts and David Bancroft: Yes. Francesca: gymnastics. And so when you're playing with a partner, it's freestyle. You don't know where that kick is coming from. And if you're not present, it keeps David Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Francesca: you fully present. David Bancroft: Yeah, Francesca: So if you're not present, you're gonna get kicked in the face, basically. David Bancroft: Yeah, and actually there's a very, very close line to what I do in karate as well. Exactly that same thing. Francesca: And to go back to that, David, the breath is really important because I always speak about i in actually in martial arts, the breath comes from the harra. Yeah, that lower set the just beneath the belly button, that seat, that's where your the power translates. So when I'm working with leaders or people supporting them in in like making a pitch and the public speaking, I always talk about speak from the hara, from your grounded center. Because that's David Bancroft: That's interesting. Francesca: gonna translate, that's where your power translates as opposed to speaking all up here, this is where anxiety lives. Whereas actually David Bancroft: Yeah, yes. Francesca: that is much more of a grounded power. And so when you meet and know as yourself or meet martial artists that are practiced David Bancroft: Mm-hmm. Francesca: and and trained, they have a certain sense of grounded power of of David Bancroft: Yes, yeah, yeah. Francesca: a stillness, of presence. David Bancroft: I didn't know we were going to go in this direction, but I speak to lots of people from different styles of karate and what they do is not dissimilar, but it's very different. And in our form of karate, we have about four or five different styles of breathing, but probably the most noticeable is so-called Ibuki, which is something which transcends, I think, a lot of the martial arts. And that is a really, it's... it's guttural, it's from almost below the diaphragm and it sort of comes out and actually in certain things that we do, you know, it's really audible, very loud. And if you didn't understand what's

happening, think, what are they all doing? Just come to me, the film that I was looking for was Inside Out. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but if you haven't. Francesca: I haven't. David Bancroft: Have a little watch of it. Watch it. think you might enjoy that one inside out. There you go. Yeah, Francesca: Inside out. Okay, I'll check it out. David Bancroft: yeah. Yeah, look it up. So in terms then of just getting back to your day to day. So we went via martial arts and Disney films there, which was probably not on the plan, was it? That's organic. Francesca: I love it. I love it. That's well, it it all connects. David Bancroft: It does. You've spoken and we referenced already Burnout. and probably pressure to succeed, I think in modern civilization, there's pressure to succeed. So you spoke about burnout yourself. We are, I would say, constantly encouraged to work hard, to push ourselves, to achieve more. And I don't think necessarily social media is always a great thing where that's concerned. Do you think, though, that we've created a culture where being busy is probably almost worn as a badge of honor. Does that make sense? Francesca: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. that was that was hands up one of my that without realizing a very unconscious deep pattern of mine was bit busyness equ and this is for v many people that I work with, especially like you know, the high achievers, busyness equaled success. Busyness equaled equated to my self-worth, equated to productivity. And that's just the culture we live in. We live in a culture of like, product. Productivity, do more, be more, have more, consume more, work hard. But so what I had to do was really to step back and go, well, hold on, I'm exhausted, I don't have time for relationships, I I I'm get I'm burnt out. Whose definition of success am I actually living out? So I had to step back and redefine success for myself, which was actually. To have the space and time and the energy and the resources to do the things I love and spend the time with people I love. So then my business gets to be shaped around my values. So when I work with clients and do coaching, I would ask them, you know, what their values are. And and they would op there, and I said, I always used to say, I bet you can tell me the values of your business or the company you work for, but you can't tell me your own personal values. Always. Always. David Bancroft: Nice. Yeah. Francesca: They could tell me, yeah, yeah, my the biz the work values are this. What about your values? Are they is your is your work, your family and your relationship shaped around your values? Because if not, then there's gonna be a cost and there's a compromise. And so it's yeah, it's it's the badge of honour thing is is huge. And a lot of it equates to self worth, a lot of it maybe from school or parenting, where it's like, Well, if you achieve this, then I give you love, If if you so that's a very a a big a big pattern that I see as well. collecting

the achievements because then I'm worthy of love. When actually we got to rewrite that story and go, No, you're worthy of love just because you are. You're here as a as a human being incarnated at this time, not because you got David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: climbed the corporate ladder and you're Burn out burnt out and sick, David Bancroft: Yeah, that's a great point. And I always look for a word of the day on the pod. And you've already given me an almost a dictionary full of words of days that I could use. I don't know. I'm just toying in this moment between values and worthy. Which one should we pick? What's going to be word of day, values or worthy? Francesca: Let's go with Worthy. I think values yeah is out there a lot, so let's go with Worthy. Yeah. David Bancroft: Let's do it. Let's do it. Worthy. Worthy is word of the day. Yeah, awesome. Make a note of that. what would you say then are the early signs perhaps that people tend to ignore in that burnout cycle before it then becomes too late? Francesca: Mm. I'm gonna answer this in two ways because there's there's like a generic way, which I see quite often, and then there's a a way that I've I've broken down like the the different nervous system types, and I've I've created these archetypes where you can start start to spot like different health challenges showing up on different nervous states. So generally burnout, a lot of the signs that show up. Things like tired but wired, a sense of really feeling like tired and exhausted but wired. They can't switch off, you know, even though they know that their David Bancroft: Okay, yes. Francesca: body is depleted. ap apathy, just lost the sense of passion, you know, purpose. low libido is big one. Because there's there's you know, your creativity can't can't flow. Suppress creativity, disconnection to self, really like high stress. there's so so many things that could apply to some like a lot of things, but like low tolerance David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: to sorry, low tolerance to stress, that's the word I was looking for. depression, like highly more irritable, so quick reactions, highly reactive because of stress tolerance is low. but then when I look at when I work with my clients to go into more detail looking at the different archetypal patterns, the nervous system archetype. So you have the the arch overdrive patterns, which is more the fight and flight. So that's where the hyperindependence, armoring. I've got an archetype called the go hard and go home. So those patterns will display different types of symptoms. They'll display more of the symptoms of the tired and wired, exhausted, Often they hold the it somatically often in their lower back because they're used to, really pushing through life themselves and the back is all about support. and then you have yeah, they'll have like often feel like heart palpitations because they're in that fight and flight overdrive all the time. So their blood pressure is high. David Bancroft: Mm-hmm, yes. Francesca: Then you have the somatic types of freeze. So freeze is like the the avoidant and one I call the spiritual escapist. Where they're not David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: really inhabiting their body. They've been moving through life in a disassociated state for quite a long time. They feel disconnected. they will often experience gut health issues, autoimmune, because they are in the freeze state, and the freeze state is that what's called parasympathetic immobilization, which means there is the life force is kind of suppressed. So lethargy, depression, ME, Chronic fatigue, these they often don't look at what's going on in the nervous system states. The the people who have been in that freeze state for a long time often are displaying those symptoms because they're they're not inhabitating their their body. They've been in disassociation and then they're kind of just told, well, that's that's what you have for the rest of your life. not always true. there's there's so much. There's the people pleasing, which is foreign people pleasing has been shown to be quite a link for women, autoimmune disease because of lack of boundaries, always giving out to everybody else, self abandonment and yeah. David Bancroft: It's deep, isn't it? Francesca: voice, not s not expressing their voice, so th voice, throat, thyroid issues which always often hits women. So yeah, there's there's there's lots of that's what I go into more in more detail with w when I work with my clients or in my retreats and stuff. David Bancroft: Yeah, that's amazing. I wanted to speak to you about hyper independence because it's something that I had read that you had written about recently. But before we do that and just drill down on that a little bit more, have you got a book recommendation? We'll just break away and just look at book recommendation and then we'll return to that. Because yeah, there's funny you mentioned now. I wanted to expand on that actually. So yeah. Francesca: I do have a big recommendation. Well, I have two bits because of course I would say mine. sell this is a must David Bancroft: Yes, Francesca: for everyone. Self-care for life in the city, even if you're not living in the city. It's about how to nourish your mind, body, and soul in a fast-paced world. Very easy to read. In here, I've got the exercises for like redefined success, core values, but also like, you know, food, sourcing food, sleep. lifestyle, all of these things. the other one I'd recommend, which I read recently and I love, is by Dr. Catherine Clinton. It's called Optimize. Now it's not what you think. It's not I'm I'm kind of over this culture like optimize your health, optimize this. And it's not about that. What it is, it it really started to actually s transform the way I view health. It's about viewing health as very much through a holistic lens, but you as as as we are, you know, electrical and energy beings. We are made of energy and we are electrical. And it's really

about supporting your system in that way. So water, working with the fascia, light, so many things that doesn't require investment to go out and buy loads of stuff. It's really like going back to basics. And it's beautiful. It's quite biology heavy, but if you get when you get past some of that, just go for the, just read the pick up the simple pieces and it will really try transform the way you view health. Because it's we're that's all being rewritten, you know, how we view health, coming back to ourselves as energy electrical beings, and coming into coherence. David Bancroft: Nice. So again, so the first title, if you can just hold up the book and say the title, your one. Francesca: Of course. Self care for life in the city. David Bancroft: And the second one? Francesca: I love that. Optimize by Dr. Catherine Clinton. David Bancroft: Spot on. Awesome. No, thank you for that. And yeah, of course you should mention your book. You should give it a hype. How long ago did you write it and when was it released? Francesca: I wrote it actually, I started writing it 2018, 2019, and it was released in twenty twenty twenty when really at the perfect time when people were just, you know, the world shut down. It was April 2020 and people yeah, it it it just helped people to rewrite like how do how do they want to define success for themselves and revisit rewriting their core values because a lot of people changed over that time, didn't they? They they decided, do you know what? I don't David Bancroft: Totally. Francesca: want to go back to my office job of like it's making me sick. so many people, so yeah, I I feel like it was it was, you know, divining David Bancroft: Well timed. Francesca: timing, yeah. David Bancroft: Yeah, will there be a follow-up to that? I'm not looking for a big splash to announce, but I mean have you thought about writing a continuation of that or something connected to that book? Francesca: Yeah, I have actually. I've been asked that a few times. I my continu the update might be to yeah, extend more now on the nervous system work and the nervous system archetypes that I was talking about because there's more more detail on that. so yeah, pending. We'll see. David Bancroft: Okay. All right. Well, watch this space. And obviously I'll link both of those books in the notes for anyone listening and curious and wanting to have a little look at what they're about. I mentioned hyperindependence Francesca: Of name. David Bancroft: just before we sort of moved into book recommendation Francesca: Mm. David Bancroft: and the concept may be that success becomes or can become self-destructive. You've written and I've certainly recently read some of your content about hyperindependence, particularly among Obviously entrepreneurs, high achievers, as we've been discussing. can you explain what that means? Cause for me, hyper independence, hadn't really considered it as an obstacle. Can you explain what it means? Why some of the characteristics that help people become successful might actually be damaging their wellbeing? Francesca: Yeah, well hyperindependence is that extreme self-reliance. It is, extremely self-sufficient and and I would say there's pros and cons to that actually. so how I mean it's it's how it comes about and well first of all so hyperindependence actually it can serve entrepreneurship to a certain point. So for me, for example, was very hyper independent, yeah, I don't need any help, I can do it all myself. and David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: I ran a successful business in my early twenties, I I've only ever worked for myself. And but it came at a cost. It comes at a at a cost at at some point. Where it comes from often it often is often a trauma response. It's often from you know, our conditioning begins from naught to seven as children. we download what I call the software program. So often if like emotional safety wasn't demonstrated, you had to learn to kind of be the strong one, do it all yourself, or you know, you you learn to to self-soothe. So you become very self self-reliant. So again, if you're starting up your own business, that can actually be quite that take the gift of that. But somewhere along the way, what often shows up is they find it very hard to ask for help or receive help. And this can translate into relationships as well, in terms of vulnerability may feel very, very scary, which was my example. It's just like, no, I don't need anyone and but I really want to meet someone, but you know, don't there was a big armor. So there's an there's an armor of having to hold yourself strong and be the strong one all the time. So how that that often the cost of that is often burnout, those people will burn out 'cause it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: to do everything yourself. David Bancroft: It's so funny to that because that was the thing that I was probably just trying to reconcile in understanding and hearing you talk and write about hyperindependence. Cause I've always thought, that's a really great attribute for an entrepreneur or for a startup machine. You you probably need that, but it's only so sustainable, isn't it? And hearing you talk about it now, that now makes sense to me because yeah, I was just trying to... position those as it's good, but it's also bad. How does that balance off, you know? Francesca: Yeah, and that's it. It's being able to see and it and this is where it comes to about emotions, neither being like positive or negative. It's like, what are the gif what are the gifts in it? What like for me? wow, the gift is like I started my own business in my early twenties, and and and that's all I ever knew and ran a successful business, made my own money, like, you know, bought my own place with my own money. And and it's like so take take the gifts, but then at some point. But there's there's there's yin and yang. The the offset was to David Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, we've discussed, yeah.

Francesca: that was, you know, I always I really had a bad back injury. I had a bad back injury and I know because the back is metaphysically the the back, particularly the lower back, is about support. It's about life, you know, the back is your support system. I was soldiering through in my life, not you know, not allowing didn't know how to ask or receive support at a time when I really did. And the universe had a way of making me slow down because I was just like thought I could keep pushing through and it gave me a big slap around the face, said, No, you can't, you need to rest. So that I was literally couldn't get out of bed. David Bancroft: And when was this injury friend? Francesca: That was in twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen. David Bancroft: Okay. And that in turn forced you to slow down then. Francesca: yeah. David Bancroft: You're someone who is accustomed to being physically active, obviously, you're a PT, but that forced you to slow down and obviously there was lessons in that for you. Francesca: Big time, big time. It was a massive identity breakdown. So it's like, well, who am I now that I can't be like in my archetype of the athlete 'cause I can't physically I and I couldn't for years. It's really taken only the last couple of years to like heal from that. And it was a massive, yeah, massive wake up call. It was I was burnt out and it was at that time I went to train in on this course holistic lifestyle coaching course the part level two of of what I had been doing and I volunteered to be the case study and you know so my hand just shot up at the beginning of the course they said we need someone to go through their paperwork and my hand shot up I was like I was like you know what I'm here for myself first and so David Bancroft: do it. Yeah. Francesca: when they went through all my paperwork it it really highlighted like That I was burnt out, and there was my body, I was taking on quite a high physiological load. And it was like permission, and this is what I find with a lot of my clients, it was like someone reflected that back to me, and it was like, permission to brew exhale, permission for me to slow down, and like it was, yeah, big realizations. And and that I couldn't armor on. I couldn't just keep pushing on and armouring on. So made me really connect the dots on the pace I was living at. yeah. Yeah, that changed me, I'd say. David Bancroft: clearly. mean, I mean, that's obvious just the way you're talking about that. It's clear. I mean, so do you have concerns then about performative wellness and some wellbeing practices? that, would that be fair then or? Francesca: yeah, I mean absolutely because there there has in a beautiful way been a massive explosion into wellness because that's where we're going. We we we've got to a point so far off from our away from who we are and who David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: we be that there is a real seeking to come back home to ourselves. But with that, there's also like a lot of There's

a lot of messiness out there. I'm not a big fan on like biohacking and stuff because I feel, David Bancroft: Okay, yep, yep. Francesca: you know, there's a lot about the ice bars and cold plunges, but it it depends, like you gotta look at the individual as well, like what's happening for that person's for so for a lot of women that doesn't work for them because they're already in a very highly stressed state and that's creating more stress in their system where they they're finding it hard. they actually can't recalibrate. David Bancroft: Yeah. Francesca: so are we the so yeah, we have to look at why we're doing things and really bring in the ment the mental emotional elements in. David Bancroft: It's interesting to say that one of our previous guests, Joe Emery, he spoke about his feed on LinkedIn being full of 5 a.m. ice baths and this optic almost of, you doing it so you can post about it or are you doing it because it actually makes any sense to you? It's a weird balance whereby you're doing something for yourself but then you're... feeling a necessity to share it and fill up his feed with pictures of your 5am ice bath, Francesca: Yeah, yeah, and and that's it. Are we just adding lots of things, more things onto the list, like creating that addiction of business? Or actually or because some people sometimes people are doing things as a distraction, but they're still disconnected from being at home with themselves. And that's my message is to really is come back when you come back into resonance with who you are, who you be, and the mission that you're here to serve, walking in your own lane, this is then ripples out into the world. This is how we change the world. And a David Bancroft: Yes. Yeah. Francesca: lot and people a lot of people are missing the foundation of like, you know, are you actually in your body? David Bancroft: so what does a typical relationship with the client look like for you then? Do you serve people in different ways or, or is there a pretty typical A type session or project that you would work on with your, with your clients or? Francesca: Yeah, so I typically work either three months or six months. So I have like a a foundational program, a three-month program, which is like called the Body Wisdom series, where I work with my clients one-to-one, either in person or online. And with that, it's we're working through the body through different themes. So the first is always about establishing safety in the body, grounding and you know, coming back to the foundation. And so how I work with them, whether that's online or in person, I'm guiding them through. There'll always be an element of like hands-on it it's self-bodywork, to open up the areas in the body where maybe there's armoring, disconnect, where the breath isn't flowing, reading the breath patterns, so I'm all about reading the patterns, reading the pattern of the nervous system and reading the the pattern of the breath because that tells a s a story of of what's going on, connecting the mind, body and emotions. And and then and then it's all good doing that the embodied kind of practice, but then how are they integrating that into their life? So how's that showing up in their life? How can then they go into their life and into their business from that, you know, that that place of embodying safety, of embodying presence, of embodying, you know, inhabiting your body. And then we work through different themes. So then there might be, I do one on all about the heart throat connection, which is all about expression, communication, voice, and releasing stuckness there again in the body. But then translating that the coaching element is how you then weaving that into your life, into your business, into your leadership. So that integration, the embodiment and the integration piece is really, really important. And I can't get that in one session. So that's why it's always, three or three or six months. David Bancroft: And as you say, this is something that you can deliver online as well as physically in person. Amazing. Yeah, that's Francesca: Yep, exactly. Yeah. David Bancroft: cool. Yeah. That's really interesting because obviously a lot of people that will listen to this pod run businesses, obviously, or they will have busy and successful careers to develop. And of course, families thereafter to support. You can't just remove pressures from your life, can you? that's not going to happen. So I guess you're helping them to better look after themselves without feeling as though they're sacrificing those ambitions. that fair? Francesca: Yeah, exactly. That is it. I was speaking with a client yesterday is that we do the work, but it doesn't mean that life is just linear. It's often maybe there's a little bit of a spiral or there's a step back, especially when David Bancroft: Of course it is. Yeah, exactly that. Francesca: especially when you're feeling more, when you're more because what people do is they avoid feeling and they'll go into their distraction, whether that is, you know, drinking or going out. But actually when they start feeling more, there there is like a more integration that is required. But you're come you're actually again you're coming home to your body. So in time that's actually expands your capacity. So it's that regulation. You're able to actually expand your capacity to hold more of life. But also that's a good thing hold more of business, hold more of opportunities, hold more of you know money and things. So you know that's the life experience. We're here to evolve and grow and Life continually unfolds. I always say life is a ceremony. David Bancroft: Well, look, Fran, we're approaching an hour, which I can't believe, and Francesca: Wow. David Bancroft: I could quite easily put another hour into this because Francesca: Yeah. David Bancroft: I just think it's one question after another and it all flows quite intuitively. And I'm actually really interested by a lot of things that you've discussed. So I really appreciate your time and knowledge and insight. Is there though, and you'll be familiar with our golden nugget feature, is there one thought lesson? or piece of advice that you'd like to leave our listeners with. I'm going to give you a little drum roll because I'm feeling this is going be a good one. Over to you. Francesca: Yeah, so I was thinking about this and what just keeps coming through is you know we're at such a pivotal time in the world. We are moving from the mind. We're moving from mind based consciousness, we're moving from the intellect to body and heart laced heart led consciousness. That is why we have seen such a rise in more of the somatic practices and breath work and all of these things is because there's a real yearning to come home to the body, which is coming home to co to our coherent natural state. And as we do that, that ripples out into the world. It changes the relationship that we have with the planet. And actually this is how we heal the world. David Bancroft: Awesome. I'll give you one of those as well, friend, just to round off. Francesca: Yeah. David Bancroft: Great golden nugget. No, thank you. Really do appreciate your time. Obviously it was a pleasure meeting you. It was a pleasure watching you struggle to feed the Yeti. And it's been amazing learning all about what you do day to day. I say I'll link the business Francesca: Thank you. David Bancroft: and some of the things we've discussed in the show notes, obviously. But for now, friend, really appreciate your time. Thank you for that. Francesca: Thank thank you so much, David. Been wonderful to to be on. David Bancroft: So there we go guys, another episode. And yeah, this one really... I don't know, really struck home with me actually. think Fran is a bit of a fountain of knowledge and speaking with her and sort of traveling through some of the techniques, some of the things that she's identified and now works on supporting people with has been really interesting to me. I've run businesses throughout a lot of my career. Like Fran, haven't worked for someone for a very, very long time. And yeah, so as such, I think it... that really connected with me. Are we looking after ourselves while we're busy building our lives? I don't know, it's a good question. I I'll probably think on this one, but until next time guys, really appreciate you listening. On to the next one.