บทถอดความฉบับเต็มของ Why Relationships Still Win in Sales | Travis Apple, 52 Weeks of Hustle

you start just going off the rails and talking about some really exciting things that a lot of our industry leaders are doing on a consistent basis. Robert Johnson: Sure. Yeah, I'm I'm the same way. obviously I I I do my research, I stalk you, I figure out who you are and your background and that that g at least gets through the first couple of minutes of things. And then from there, I guess, you know, if you can't figure out the rest from there, maybe you shouldn't have a podcast. I don't know. Travis Apple: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you should probably do it do something else different with your hobby, right? Robert Johnson: Yeah. so well I I got a lot of questions. Fi fifty two weeks of hustle. you're on episode like hundreds. Where are you where are you at? And tell me where where did it start? Travis Apple: Three hundred three hundred plus. Yeah. Yeah. Three hundred plus. So we're thinking around three thirty-five right now. three hundred and thirty-five consecutive weeks. And so, you know, funny story about that, you know, and I'll talk a lot about mentors, but you know, I was having lunch with a mentor of mine, guy named Dr. Bernie Molin, who was the the CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and Thrasher I started and the the head of Aspire Group and still a great mentor and friend of mine. We were having dinner in January of twenty twenty and I was like, Bernie, I wanna Think I want to host a podcast. I've always had a passion for it. I think it'd be a lot of fun. absolutely you should do this. And so I taped my first five episodes between J late January, early February with an expected launch date of May of 2020. Well, then as the world shut down, it was almost perfect timing that launched it. And then it's just been a lot of fun. I always tell people like I started the podcast because I wanted to give back to the industry to to share industry leaders. opinions and thoughts and ideas of how to be successful. And it took off. And and, certainly look, do I make a little bit of money on it? Sure. from a sponsorship end, but I always joke I don't have the Joe Rogan Spotify deal. so I Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: still have to have a full time job. And because 52 weeks of hustle branding, has really taken off over the last seven years, I, you know, have have once again created my own company I've owned for a couple of years where I have three business verticals. I do a lot of consulting Which again I know is a very vague term, but it any Robert Johnson: Mm. Travis Apple: anywhere from hands on the keyboard to, re people process and and productivity. I have an executive search vertical where we have a full time executive recruiter that we spend a lot of time filling, roles of of all across the Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: country and A level talent. And then I do a lot of sales and leadership training. so yeah, it's been it's been fun and and it keeps me busy and But I always we joked about the hobby of the podcast. It's certainly a hobby of mine. I enjoy, I get Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: giddy about taping podcasts and being a part of it. And then, the the excitement that comes when you post it on LinkedIn of like not only how many likes or shares, but more importantly, how many side messages you get of people saying, Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: I I like this episode, or even better, the guest that was there saying, Hey, I've I've received a lot of feedback and a lot of people listen to the episode, which is really cool. Robert Johnson: Yeah, that's awesome. And I did just see the other day, I did connect the dots with your executive search Travis Apple: Yeah. Robert Johnson: firm that you've got there. And I I saw you know, you're you guys are looking to fill a role I was like, interesting. I didn't realize fifty-two weeks of hustle was also a search firm. but Travis Apple: Yep. Robert Johnson: I so what what's the tell so tell me a little bit about tell me a little bit about each one of those. I because I didn't know you did the consulting, and I didn't know you did the executive coaching as well. So w tell me more about that. Travis Apple: Yeah, and it's funny, it's actually, I talk oftentimes with with clients and people like we haven't done a ton of proactive outreach. And I think that's a good thing because then it, we haven't had to put a ton of of marketing. But, it all started, several years ago. I I started a company and sold that. and then I knew all along I wanted to, you know, to start this back up and really scale it. And I think it's we've had a a great couple years, but yeah, consulting, I'm working with a a variety of teams and leagues. some of them are year-long deals where it's it's hand on the keyboard. I'm their acting head of sales and analytics and and sponsorship. others are, quick three, six month projects where you're just you're immersing yourself within their their business and their people Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: and trying to understand and share best practices and ideas, and the executive search pieces has really taken off for us over the last couple of years. And look, like anything, there's a ton of competition. And I think we, we found our sweet spot of of being able to hire between our network, being able to move quickly. but then also like we're open to you know a variety of roles from if you're selling premium, you know, to certainly C level and everywhere in between. so that's been a a lot of fun. And I think it really continues to keep yourself ingrained in this business because not only are you talking to a client that wants to hire A-level talent. So getting a good grasp of what they're looking for and what they want, what they see. But also then as you are talking to, a variety of candidates, I've, I've got seven interviews today for a variety of Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: roles of just, you know, better understanding like how they're looking at things, how they're viewing the industry, and

ultimately why, you know, it could be, you know, an ability to make a jump or to make a move. and then sales and leadership training, you know, I you know, have now a three and a half year old, which I always joke, my full time job is is prevent. scout my three and a half year old daughter from killing herself. And that's a full time job. So, Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: the first time around I was on the the road training almost every week, four or five nights a week. I have to slim that down, but I still do quite a bit of sales and leadership training both in person and virtual, which I absolutely love, being able to to work with people right out of college or premium sellers that have Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: been selling for twenty five years or or people that have been leading for 10 to 15 years or their first time leader, being able to really immerse and again share best practices to get them to think about ways to be successful both proactively with an innovation, but ultimately to build a a scalable and sustainable pipeline, team, and overall revenue streams as well. Robert Johnson: Yeah, that's that's really cool. I did I didn't know that piece of the business. what if you is there is there a particular thing, like if you had to sit down and be like, Okay, Travis, that you're gonna make the most money doing this, like if you had to pick one, I mean, what what what's what's your passion? Travis Apple: training. I I love training. Robert Johnson: Training. Travis Apple: Yeah. Certainly it's not necessarily always the most money, transparently, but I love training. Just being able to be back in the weeds, Robert Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Travis Apple: talking to people that have either again brand new, have had a ton of success, or struggling and like being able to like get in the weeds with them, make some phone calls, kind of share real life stories. And I think that's where I can resonate with a lot of people is like I've sat in in that chair. on the the team and league side a hell of a lot more than I have in this kind of vendor entrepreneur space. And so I Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: get it. I understand overcoming, objections, getting rejected. I understand, owners that are aggressive. I understand leaders that are, working through different objectives and initiatives. So but yeah, I think training is probably my passion point, which is really like why the other two verticals exist. Because if you think about it like in order to train somebody really well, you need to have some A level talent. So I've always loved being on the team side recruiting and finding, that those best lottery picks to come work for there. Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: And then training is really consulting, just on a different vertical because as as you're consulting, Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: you often want a times to share best practices, share initiatives, get organizations to think about things just a little bit

differently. So I think they all really play play in in together in that path as well. Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. I I thought maybe, just maybe your answer was gonna be fifty two weeks of hustle, the podcast. if I could dude, if I could blow up the podcast, that would be my question. Travis Apple: Well, yeah, like I joked earlier, if I could get the Joe Rogan Spotify deal, I think I could, figure out how to do that full time. I look Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: at that as probably more of a a hobby than anything. but yes, if that if that ever would completely take off, that is certainly a passion project of mine. Robert Johnson: Yeah. i is it is it hard, is it time consuming at all to publish an episode every single week consistently? Is that ever a challenge for you? Travis Apple: Yeah, and you you you see that firsthand, right? As, on the opposite side of the chair. I wouldn't I would say I've gotten a lot better. Let's just call it that. From my the first, season Robert Johnson: Mm. Yeah. Travis Apple: or two of taping episodes to being, even putting together a list of questions. I I've gotten a lot better, a lot more efficient with that. I've gotten a lot more efficient with the editing. One of the things, and and for people that know me well, I'm a very independent person. and which probably why I'm in the entrepreneur world too, of like, I don't like let's just call I'm frugal. So I don't like to pay people to to do anything that Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: I can do myself. And and it also flows like I enjoy doing it, enjoy being able to go in. And even as I'm looking down of like, I need to edit this out at the 12 minute mark and I need to add this in at the 17 minute mark. Like I enjoy it. I've gotten a lot better. I would say each episode depending is probably gonna take me anywhere between let's call it three to five hours total between prep. Robert Johnson: Okay. Travis Apple: training prep and actually producing and going through it, editing and then getting ready to to actually share it. Robert Johnson: Yeah, I I feel like if I if I really get super technical with some of the editing sometimes, I I can I can go down a rabbit hole and and just trying to make it absolutely perfect or or sometimes Travis Apple: Yep. Robert Johnson: like I I like I know that that there was a really good piece of that podcast and I want to get it. And I'm like, I where is that thing? I just can't find it or y there's like Travis Apple: Yeah. Can't get to it, yeah. Robert Johnson: there's just a lot of back and forth with the editing, but I I really do like I I love that piece. it's fun messing with the the performance of the video and the editing and maybe the zoom in and the and the lenses and I've done I've done two I've done two in person Travis Apple: Okay. Robert Johnson: where I've actually bring out like some gear and and I do it. that's that's always fun because you're You got the complexities of the angle and the lighting and and the noise. Travis Apple: Right. Yep. Robert Johnson: but I think the the interview turns out better when it's in person a little bit. Travis Apple: Yeah, no, I agree. I have not got an in person interview yet. but I also to that point of like I like having, you know, stuff kinda uncut too. You know, and I go back, the the president of Orlando City FC, Jared Dillon. he was on my one of my first first season, and it was right in the middle of the pandemic that I was taping the episode. So he was in his, you know, kind of home office and during the time his children came in and they wanted to read a book. And we kind of joked on the episode and ultimately we kept it of like this is kind of the nature of what we're doing right now. Like it's you you don't Robert Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Travis Apple: have the ability to, you know, to uncut things. Like it's just the it's just what goes on. So I also like that idea of of that as well. Robert Johnson: what have you 'cause I I'm on, you know, I'm approaching episode twenty. You've got three hundred and fifty plus. Like I'm curious. one of the things that I've learned is like the longer you do something, the better you get at it, the more you like learn. And there's all the like hindsight's twenty-twenty looking back, like, it would have been really great if I would have done these on my first twenty, but I didn't. But I'm glad I learned it. Or your ability to listen, you you've got to listen, you gotta pay attention really closely, right? Cause right now you have my undivided attention because I'm very proactively listening to what you're saying. And I'm trying to get ready to think about the next thing to say, right? Or question to ask. and so that you're like I know that this is a thing that is going to enhance my listening skills and my question answering asking skills, right? So those are a couple of things that I'm already thinking about. But you're so far down the path. what what are some maybe things that other podcasters would like, like that's interesting. Travis Apple: Yeah, it's a great question, Robert. And I think I think of it often. I think, I I always say is, you you think about you you you have two ears in one mouth for a reason. You should do twice as much less than you do talking. But ABC, always be coachable. And, you know, and it's certainly sales, it's always be closing, but I've always thought of being coachable. And I'm learning every day and I'm learning every episode, you know, and I think a couple of things that stand out, and it's always great critique, but like if I critique myself and and Quite frankly, if people go back and listen to some episodes in season one, you can tell that I am not necessarily listening a ton. It is more of I've got my piece of paper and my next question. And I think about it and it hit me during one of the episodes. I'm like, wait a minute, this isn't different than than selling a a sweet lease to a business decision maker and just being able to have

that dialogue and conversation, but listening. So I think listening is improved. Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: We talked about editing. I think the other thing is. Listening to your audience and data. So a couple things going back a couple seasons ago, I started researching the data of like listeners and realizing that after like that 25 minute mark, the listeners kind of came down a little bit because I thought, well, the expected drive time or commute time for people are is around that 20 to 30 minutes to work. And unless that episode is just catching them post that 25 minute mark at the end of the day, they're probably not going back and listening. They've probably heard enough Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: of the episode. So I started making, I will say majority of them. There are some that that that push that envelope, but are 24 minutes or less, like the shot clock. so I've done that. starting in season seven, I was getting a lot of of people saying, hey, you're you're your boots on the ground, your ears, your ears to things, why don't you talk about some live topics as well? You know, because my podcast on the 52 Weeks Hustle has been more about their career path. And we don't talk about live content. So if you listen to Corey Breton's podcast, which is the first one ever that was released in May of 2020, to now the advice is still gonna be the same. Right. And so Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: we're now I'm starting every other episode talking about live events and what that looks like. And so that's been a lot of fun, but also different, right? Because now I'm taping a podcast of twenty to twenty five minutes with just me. There's no listening. It's just talking and and so Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: you just I think as for any of those podcast hosts out there, and feel free to reach out, I'm more than happy to give you my SWOT analysis of of podcast as a whole, but it's you're just always learning, you're always thinking about doing something different, even to the point when it comes to, spread of your audience and of that. I know I still don't do a great job of like really pushing it out. You know, I posted once on LinkedIn and that's about the extent of it. But what else can you be doing to continue to foot? you'll focus on that. I think, there's other social media channels. I'm not a big social media person outside of LinkedIn. And so that's where I I leverage it. So I think there's always continuous learning, processes and curves that you'll go through as well. Robert Johnson: Yeah. you said a lot of good stuff and they're like I I know my first podcast episode and second one was very kind of like scripted and I had the I had the questions there and it just it wasn't like I I so wish I could go back and just redo them. But Travis Apple: Yeah. Robert Johnson: you know, I want them there because it's Travis Apple: Part of it. Robert Johnson: it's it's part of it, right? People are gonna be like, wow, like I listened to the first one. Wow, he's gotten a lot better over the over the last couple. I Travis Apple: Right. Yep. Robert Johnson: also I've also already thought about doing an episode where I don't have a guest and it's just me. I was like, and you've validated that a little bit, which Travis Apple: Yep. Robert Johnson: is which is interesting as well. and I'm right up there with you. Like I Travis Apple: What's fun about those episodes, Robert, is like, for example, I I just recently released one about the PGA tour versus live golf. And so Robert Johnson: Okay. Travis Apple: I follow it from afar. I read it. I read the articles. I can't say I'm an avid, golfer or golf fan, but I I know what's going on. And so to get ready for that episode, it's a lot of research. those episodes take me longer because I'm researching articles, I'm writing articles, I'm copying pasting. Hey, these are some good points I should make sure I hit on. Hey, here's how other people are thinking about it to then turn it in, to your own kind of words. Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: and so those are it is a lot of fun. It's, you know, it's a little more challenging, but it's certainly something exciting to do as well. Robert Johnson: And I the other thing that's changed a lot about the the way I talk to people on these episodes is it's really easy, Travis, to do a 30-minute episode where you talk about you and your path and your career and the milestones and how you got there. And then basically just repeat that every single time. Right. And I've got a lot of episodes where these people are really interesting. And I do want to be like, how did how did you get into sports and tell me about this? And that which, that's a good episode, but if you do that every single time, every single one of your episodes is basically like a it's like a career interview. Right. Travis Apple: Yep. Yep. Robert Johnson: And there's only there's only so much value there. Like I I want I wanna I wanna talk about about this kind of stuff. Like what are you doing? What's not working? How how like what are you struggling with? What's interesting? Travis Apple: Yep. Right. There are some challenges. And that's what something I learned. You know, early on, I wanted to make sure in the first couple of seasons to not only talk about their career path and the wins and highlights, but also talk about some challenging things. Not necessarily challenging of like, hey, this is happening with MLB or this is happening with MLS or NFL, whatever, but more from their career perspective. And then that has kind of turned into now like I really split the episodes in two. You know, it's approximately 12 minutes about their career. And you know, some good and some bad. And then the last twelve minutes, like I kinda have three hustle, you know, hot topics that we're talking about that is like lively. And so it's, you know, those generate a lot more ad lib conversation as well. But, you know, it's

something you continue to to learn from the audience of what they want to hear. but it's you know, it's always it's always fun and exciting because, you know, probably similar to you, like I get turned down very few times because people love to share their story, but more importantly, like Robert Johnson: Yeah. Travis Apple: give back. to the next generation of elite professionals in our in our business. Robert Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Mo most the the only people that haven't come on my podcast are the ones who they can't, I'm technically interviewing somebody who works for a pro sports team, right? And so they they they're like, I I I gotta have my legal involved. I'm like, No, I'm not interviewing I'm not interviewing you as the so and so at I'm interviewing you. Like to talk about your life. Travis Apple: Yeah, as your career. Yep. Yep. Robert Johnson: your career. there's a in my opinion, I really do believe there's a big difference between that. I'm not having on Travis Apple: Yes, I agree. I agree. Robert Johnson: the show Travis Apple with fifty fifty two weeks of hustle. You you just happen to have that. I'm more interested Travis Apple: Right. Robert Johnson: in in you. What's why'd you do this? How did you get there? What was the decision? Was it scary leaving your day job, a comfortable day job to start this up? it's about you. but that's fine. the Travis Apple: Right. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Robert Johnson: They'll come back a second time. I'll I'll keep I'll keep him in the Rolodex and Travis Apple: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You know, that's why I always joke with people like, you know, it's like now I'm in season seven, like I had to get my my ratings boosted before I asked some s some heavy hitters. Robert Johnson: It I th that's very true. Yeah, common qu what are we gonna talk about? Or I'm not sure what to talk about. don't worry about that, If you can Travis Apple: Yeah. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Robert Johnson: exactly. I'm I'm curious, right? So the the other like thing that I think for me at least that interests me about you is you you have met with like so many teams and professionals i in in in space. You're also which I learned. is you're doing some consulting and you've got kind of an inside view of working for different teams, leagues, venues, et cetera. Like, do you have any insights around like where 'cause I'm a sales guy, sounds you're you're focusing on sales and partnerships and stuff like that. Like what are what are some of the main things that you're focused on when you are doing some of the consulting and working with these things and are there are there trends that you're seeing on the sales side? Travis Apple: Yeah. Yeah. I think a couple of things. I think, many times consulting really comes down with some Ps, right? It's it's people, you know, and who are the people? what are they, what are the SWOT analysis of the people? Are they in the right positions? Are they held accountable to the right things? It's process,

like what is that overall, you know, kind of process from start to finish of a sales call to leading to a sponsor call to a group to a season premium everything in between certainly pricing is part of that right as you think about pricing you know even going you know the last decade it was you know static then it was variable then it was dynamic and now what's the the next wave of that overall pricing so really taking a deep dive into that piece and then ultimately and probably the most important P of that is productivity like at the end of the day Do all those three things match up that you can produce at a highest that the highest level? and I think you think about somebody that would potentially hire me as a consultant, like they're all right, I want I need somebody to come in, really immerse themselves in, figure out do we have the right people on the bus? Are we running the right process? Are we priced and packaged accordingly to just produce at the highest level? Because that would be the ROI for me. And so Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: I think even to your question, Robert, on you know, where's this? Where's this going? I think that's the thing that I'm bullish on is a lot of the stuff is not changing. Relationships still sell. based on all of the AIs that they're the capacity and part of that, much of that is certainly, you know, still in order to sell a big sponsorship, in order to sell a suite lease, in order to sell, you know, courtside seats or behind the glass seats or whatever it may be, relationships sell. You know, I think now more important than ever is like How are you differentiating yourself from every other Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: salesperson out there? And it's not just the people selling sports or live entertainment. It's anybody that's selling a product that could impact that customer's discretionary dollar or that business's entertainment dollar. How are you differentiating yourself? I re I read a stat and I've shared this stat with with teams that, the average business decision maker gets about 117 emails a day, but only seven phone calls. Robert Johnson: Mm-hmm. Travis Apple: So I always tell people if you think the phone call's dead, good luck getting through in that email. You better have the best email that it's not gonna go to a spam folder and that it's gonna catch somebody's attention and wanna respond. Cause you could always already differentiate yourself by just picking up the phone. and so let little little little things like that are a big part Robert Johnson: Man, you're you're you're you're slowly, you're quickly becoming you're quickly becoming one of my new best friends, Travis. That was an awesome that was an awesome answer. Travis Apple: Yeah. Robert Johnson: I I agree so so heavily with your interpretation on email versus phone. Yes, I get a lot of spam calls. Those are those are crappy telemarketing spam calls about selling a timeshare or something like that, right? Travis Apple:

Yeah. Robert Johnson: But on any given day, how many professional human beings are reaching out to the VP of you know events or production or digital or whatever, like and and calling not as a not on an autodialer, but picking up the phone and giving you a professional sales call. And when I ask people that question, they're like, okay, I get I get a couple a week. Okay, you get a couple a week. How many emails do you get? You get a lot of emails. Travis Apple: Right. It's a crazy amount. Yep. Robert Johnson: a crazy amount and it's and all we're myself included as a consumer and as a sales professional like you just hit the delete button really fast, right? But I typically will take the time. I will book a meeting with a vendor. I'll just pick, you know, Apollo dot com or some contacts company or some, you know, enrichment company. If I get a legit sales call from a legit sales guy or gal, I'll typically take the meeting. Cause it 'cause that hap that happens so infrequently. Travis Apple: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that happens so often times in business, right? I've seen it time and time again of both myself and other people. It was like they'll meet with a business decision maker, they come back with a check or a credit card and they're like, somebody asks why'd they buy and I have no idea. I think the person just fell in love with me because it's like they reminded of them when they first started and they were, smiling and dialing and grinding and found ways to to meet with a decision maker. people buy because they like, trust, and respect you. And people hate to be sold to, Robert Johnson: Yeah. The the other thing that I'm I'm inter Travis Apple: but they love to buy. Robert Johnson: Yeah. Yep. I also have a some really strong attitudes and beliefs around like interviewing. I'd I'd love to get your opinion on this. So I I've had it on both ends of the spectrum where I have hired what I thought was a seasoned enterprise accept sales guy or gal, and they ended up getting kicked out the door in less than ninety days. And then I've taken what I would consider some fairly large risks in hiring somebody who I just didn't quite know, but there's something about them. I brought them on. And they ended up being the number one top performer Travis Apple: Yeah. Robert Johnson: at the company. And it's like after having that hiring experience, when people say like, should we hire them? Should we not? I'm like, I I technically don't know. Like I I don't know if this person's gonna be good or not. Let's give it a shot. Let's hire both of them and see who wins. You know, I you just don't so what's your perspective on on hiring? Travis Apple: Yeah, I think a couple things. I think you should never check the box, I think is a big piece. And I think I I've seen so many hiring managers where it's like because hiring, which is why the executive search space exists, it's a lot of time and effort and energy. And so at times it's kind of not as important as return on

investment is, it's return on energy. And so, you know, years ago we we created this like all day interview process where you'd see them and like actually put them on the phone so like See firsthand, because everybody, especially in sales, if you're going a sales route and you can't crush an inter an hour-long interview, you shouldn't be in sales, right? You should be able to sell yourself for an hour. But spending more time and more quality time with more thought-provoking questions, in my opinion, really starts to open the eyes of potential candidates and and people that are going to be A-level talent, you know, versus and so. I think the biggest thing I always preach to to clients as far as an interview process is like, make sure you spend dedicated time with them. Make sure you really get in the weeds and understand who they are as a person, understand their challenges, ask the difficult and thought-provoking questions to see what their response is so you can truly get to know them. And then I would never hire somebody like without. Asking people that know and it's not all about the reference check. Cause right, think about it. if you're giving somebody a reference, they're probably gonna speak pretty highly of you if you're putting that on your resume. But especially in this business, you can find somebody that is either working for, with, or alongside somebody that you can get the true lowdown. So from a candidate, or from a client end, you should be thinking about all of those different items. Robert Johnson: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Again, man, you're you're nailing it, dude. the the the current job I'm in was a kind of flippant remark from a a good friend of mine who said, Hey, you should you should look at this company. And I like, I've never heard of them before. But he he gave me that like, yeah, these guys are really interesting. You should take a look at Lo and behold, they were hiring, you know, got through the inter interview process, things worked out well. but like it was from that it was I wasn't doing the reference check on them. It was like a somebody said something very nice about this person, company, et cetera, what fill in the blank. Right. And that that typically says a lot about the individual or the organization. Travis Apple: Yeah, no absolutely. You hit the nail on the head for sure. Robert Johnson: Yeah. well Travis, I'm gonna do a couple things. One, I'm gonna take your advice. I'm gonna I think that this has been a super like action-packed 31 minutes. so for my listeners who are drop off after the 30 minute mark, I'm gonna save them the next 30 minutes of of drab and dribble here. However, I what I always like to do, I wanna give you the just just the last the last minute on this on the soapbox here. If you've got career advice, if you've got industry insights, any anything that, anybody talk about podcasts, anybody who wants to aspire to do a podcast, what what question or what what would you like to wrap with if you if you got any last words? Travis Apple: Yeah. Yeah, I think it probably comes down to three big things that I always look for in successful people and I've seen in people that are really successful in this industry, no matter what role or vertical they're in. I think the first one is passion. Do you have a passion for the business? Do you have a passion for your brand? Do you have a passion for your craft? Like what are you doing to continue to have that that excitement and that energy? And I think a lot of that could be read read articles, read books, listen to podcasts, like think about how other people are doing things. to re-energize you as well. The second piece is work ethic, right? And it's we've said that time and time again. My my book is called Hustle Your Way to Success and Sports Sales, my company, my podcast, 52 Weeks Hustle. It is ingrained in me and like you, it's a numbers game no matter what you're doing in this business. And so are you willing to go above and beyond the Call of Duty? Not the video game, the Call of Duty, but the true call of duty. Like, are you looking to push the envelope and everything you're doing? And then the third piece is Coachability, right? As I interview people, everybody says I'm a hardest worker. I'm so extremely coachable. Prove it. We're in a business that continues to evolve, continues to be different, and continues to find new things to really push the envelope. And so do you have those two ears in one mouth for reason? Are you open to learning? Are you open to being coachable every single day? And those three things have one thing in common, and that's you can control them. Right. In the sports business, you can't control wins or losses. You can't even control fans experiences, but you can control your smile and passion every day, your willingness and ability to work your tail off and be extremely coachable and open to learning and open to new ideas. Robert Johnson: Awesome. Well said, Travis. This you I can I can tell in the in the first 30 minutes of meeting you here, I can tell why you've been successful, why why you are the person you are. You've got a just an awesome positive attitude and a lot of wisdom to share. I mean that's just evidence. So I'm really happy that you're on Travis Apple: Thank you so much. Robert Johnson: fourth quarter labs today. It's a pleasure meeting you. Thank thank you so much for your time. Travis Apple: Yeah, Robert, thank you so much. Thanks for reaching out. It's always a pleasure and I I certainly appreciate it. Robert Johnson: Thanks for listening to another episode of Fourth Quarter Labs. If you enjoyed the conversation, please follow and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube so you never miss an episode. Your support helps us continue sharing stories and insights from leaders, athletes, entrepreneurs, and high performers. We'll see you on the next episode.