สำเนาบทสนทนา 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:04.019
In today's episode, we look at Punjab, where three ARP
2
00:00:04.059 --> 00:00:08.060
legislators have joined the BJP just months before the 2027
3
00:00:08.060 --> 00:00:13.720
Assembly elections, exposing fresh tensions within the ruling party. We
4
00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:17.210
also talk about Gujarat, where a municipal official was suspended
5
00:00:17.670 --> 00:00:20.670
after 12 streetlights on a route used by Prime Minister
6
00:00:20.690 --> 00:00:24.570
Narendra Modi were found to be non-functional. But we begin
7
00:00:24.609 --> 00:00:28.030
today with the impact that the results of the US
8
00:00:28.109 --> 00:00:35.340
midterms will have on India. Hi, I'm Ichha Sharma and
9
00:00:35.380 --> 00:00:38.060
you're listening to Three Things, the Indian Express News Show.
10
00:00:43.710 --> 00:00:47.469
Last week, the United States held its midterm election and
11
00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:50.850
the results dealt a major blow to President Donald Trump.
12
00:00:51.409 --> 00:00:55.710
The Democratic Party won back control of both chambers of Congress,
13
00:00:56.149 --> 00:00:59.969
the Senate and the House of Representatives, shifting the balance
14
00:01:00.009 --> 00:01:04.870
of power in Washington. Here's House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries
15
00:01:05.069 --> 00:01:07.849
addressing the media shortly after the results were announced.
16
00:01:09.209 --> 00:01:15.230
The American people have chosen the economy over extremism. The
17
00:01:15.250 --> 00:01:21.040
American people have chosen hope over hatred. The American people
18
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:30.260
have chosen common sense over corruption, chaos and cruelty. The
19
00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:36.560
American people have chosen House Democrats because they want to
20
00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:42.180
see a dramatic change in direction. And that's exactly what
21
00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:47.530
House Democrats will deliver beginning on day one.
22
00:01:47.609 --> 00:01:51.750
Now the result has implications that go well beyond American
23
00:01:51.790 --> 00:01:56.200
domestic politics. With the opposition now controlling Congress, Trump could
24
00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:00.200
face greater resistance to his legislative and policy agenda. And
25
00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:03.650
this also has implications for India, which has been navigating
26
00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:09.949
considerable uncertainty over US tariffs, trade negotiations, immigration restrictions, and
27
00:02:09.990 --> 00:02:12.969
the war in West Asia. So what do these results
28
00:02:13.129 --> 00:02:15.949
mean for Trump and the future of American politics?
29
00:02:16.409 --> 00:02:20.319
And how could they shape India's relationship? with the United States.
30
00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:23.719
To understand this, my colleague Niharika Nanda speaks to the
31
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.819
Indian Express's Diplomatic Affairs Editor, Shubhjeet Roy.
32
00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:31.770
Shubhjeet, could you first explain what the Democrats' winning control
33
00:02:31.909 --> 00:02:35.229
of both the Senate and the House of Representatives means
34
00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:37.159
for the US political system and.
35
00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.180
How should we understand this in the Indian context?
36
00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:47.490
So it's a sort of Democrats have won essentially the
37
00:02:48.030 --> 00:02:51.550
House of Representatives, which is the lower house and the Senate,
38
00:02:51.689 --> 00:02:54.430
which is the upper house. So it is something like
39
00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:59.409
if the opposition party in India, India is not a
40
00:02:59.430 --> 00:03:03.139
presidential form of government. So we cannot compare the two systems.
41
00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:07.099
But Just for the argument's sake, if, for example, if
42
00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.939
we had a prime minister who was a presidential form
43
00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.120
of government, who was a president and who was elected
44
00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:16.939
by the people, but if both the Lok Sabha and
45
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.300
the Rajya Sabha were dominated by the opposition party, then
46
00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.770
that kind of a situation is what has happened in
47
00:03:26.909 --> 00:03:30.710
the midterm elections which took place in the United States,
48
00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:37.509
where Democrats have now won both the House of Representatives,
49
00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:41.389
which is equivalent to Lok Sabha and the Senate, which
50
00:03:41.430 --> 00:03:44.930
is equivalent to the Rajya Sabha. So whereas the president,
51
00:03:45.169 --> 00:03:48.169
which is here in this case, is President Donald Trump,
52
00:03:48.669 --> 00:03:51.930
he is a Republican president and he's still in office.
53
00:03:52.069 --> 00:03:56.009
So Donald Trump still has two more years as a
54
00:03:56.069 --> 00:04:01.340
president to go till 2029. But the two houses of
55
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:05.759
the parliament are no more dominated by his own party.
56
00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:10.800
So that is the significance of the verdict. And which
57
00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.500
means essentially that for any law to be passed, now
58
00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:19.600
Democrats will have the say and they will have the
59
00:04:19.699 --> 00:04:22.819
upper hand and the president will have to implement it
60
00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.019
sign it or have to has.
61
00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.709
To veto it. So he'll have a veto power. So
62
00:04:27.829 --> 00:04:29.129
which he can exercise.
63
00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:33.689
But in a sense, so after almost one and a
64
00:04:33.709 --> 00:04:37.040
half years, almost two years of being in office, when
65
00:04:37.189 --> 00:04:40.100
he had the support of the Congress, both houses of
66
00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.889
the parliament, US parliament, He will no more have that
67
00:04:43.970 --> 00:04:48.189
freedom and there
Load full transcript
will be checks and balance on his
68
00:04:48.310 --> 00:04:50.970
powers to pass a law or.
69
00:04:50.970 --> 00:04:53.930
Sign a law and get things done.
70
00:04:54.689 --> 00:04:58.160
And the US president also has executive powers, right?
71
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.040
So how will that work out?
72
00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:05.610
The United States presidents also have what is called executive powers,
73
00:05:05.850 --> 00:05:10.470
which he has exercised in the last 19 months or so, 19,
74
00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:15.279
20 months or so, quite extensively in, for example, issuing.
75
00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:18.819
Tariffs or launching a war on Iran.
76
00:05:19.430 --> 00:05:23.670
So he has used those powers to do these things.
77
00:05:24.069 --> 00:05:27.939
But now those powers will be sort of questioned and
78
00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:31.620
those moves will be questioned and those impulses will be
79
00:05:31.699 --> 00:05:36.129
kept in check, provided the Democrats sort of stay united
80
00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:38.949
and they are able to form a sort of a
81
00:05:39.009 --> 00:05:42.649
united front against the president. So this also would mean
82
00:05:42.709 --> 00:05:46.459
that the president will have to negotiate with the Democrats,
83
00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:50.980
with the opposition to get anything passed that he wants
84
00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:53.620
to or to get anything done that he wants to
85
00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:54.939
in the next two years.
86
00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:56.000
Right.
87
00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:01.160
And Shubhjeet, how do we see this result impacting the U.S. policies,
88
00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:03.040
especially towards other countries?
89
00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:05.050
Well, you know, so the.
90
00:06:05.110 --> 00:06:09.199
U.S., has in the last, especially the two years or
91
00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:14.040
so since Donald Trump won the elections in 2024, it
92
00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:19.740
has created uncertainty because of this unpredictable nature of President
93
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.959
Trump and his administration and his policies. So there is
94
00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:29.649
a sense that this particular verdict will bring back some
95
00:06:29.769 --> 00:06:33.750
sort of predictability in the global order, in the way
96
00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:34.569
US functions.
97
00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:38.850
For example, the US president, he used his.
98
00:06:39.089 --> 00:06:43.629
Executive powers, which are his special powers used under wartime,
99
00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:47.220
which has now been challenged by the Supreme Court and
100
00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:50.959
has set aside. But he used those powers to predict
101
00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:53.680
impose tariffs on different countries.
102
00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.889
So now with a.
103
00:06:57.009 --> 00:07:02.470
Sort of opposition controlled United States Congress, the president won't
104
00:07:02.509 --> 00:07:05.500
be able to do what he has been
able to do,
105
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:08.540
that is impose tariffs at his women fancy.
106
00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.839
And there would be a pushback.
107
00:07:11.430 --> 00:07:16.610
Similarly, you know, its policies say towards immigration, how it
108
00:07:16.670 --> 00:07:21.399
deals with them. Also, its policy is the current war,
109
00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:24.300
the war in Iran, which has been on and off,
110
00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.980
on and off. in the last seven, eight months, how
111
00:07:28.339 --> 00:07:31.949
it plays out, what decision does he take. So those
112
00:07:32.029 --> 00:07:35.629
policies will also be impacted and they will also be
113
00:07:35.689 --> 00:07:39.879
sort of be seen by how the Trump administration now
114
00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:47.100
carries forward those policies. Apart from that, its outlook towards China, Russia,
115
00:07:47.660 --> 00:07:50.519
especially in the context of with Russia, especially in the
116
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.930
context of the war in Ukraine, those moves and policy
117
00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:57.550
stances would also be to be seen how they play
118
00:07:57.610 --> 00:07:59.129
out in the next couple of years.
119
00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:02.769
And now coming to India and its relationship with the US,
120
00:08:03.189 --> 00:08:05.670
like if we talk about the tariffs levied by the
121
00:08:05.730 --> 00:08:09.089
US president, like you mentioned, how do we see that changing?
122
00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:13.079
With regards to India, you know, as I said, the
123
00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:17.019
issue of tariffs is something that has bothered India a
124
00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:20.759
lot because of the off and on policies that have
125
00:08:20.899 --> 00:08:24.069
played out in the last two years, especially in the
126
00:08:24.110 --> 00:08:28.149
last year and a half. And so now with the
127
00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:33.120
trade deal being negotiated between India and US, the midterm
128
00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.399
outcome is expected to have an impact as Washington will
129
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.320
be sort of seen to be in a weaker position because,
130
00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.240
you know, it will have a hostile, the Trump administration
131
00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:47.080
will have a hostile US Congress. I mean, the Indian
132
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:51.899
government will obviously now watch this new playing field and
133
00:08:51.990 --> 00:08:54.289
negotiate differently here on.
134
00:08:54.990 --> 00:08:58.210
So can we expect changes as far as immigration and
135
00:08:58.230 --> 00:09:01.529
H-1B visas are concerned? Because these are two issues that
136
00:09:01.549 --> 00:09:03.830
have really impacted Indians in the recent past.
137
00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:07.600
Well, you know, the last two years have seen a
138
00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.820
rise in anti-immigrant racism and restrictions, especially in H-1B visas
139
00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:18.620
or the student visas, OPT, which is optional practical training.
140
00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:23.809
So the pushback against anti-immigrant crackdown, you know, which is
141
00:09:23.889 --> 00:09:28.070
being led by the Trump administration and the pushback is being.
142
00:09:27.929 --> 00:09:29.509
Led by the Democrats.
143
00:09:30.070 --> 00:09:32.649
Now, this will sort of serve as a reminder to
144
00:09:32.669 --> 00:09:36.350
the U.S. administration that the immigrant communities have tremendous veto.
145
00:09:36.129 --> 00:09:37.950
Power and so do the big business.
146
00:09:38.009 --> 00:09:41.190
So these are the areas which will be of interest
147
00:09:41.230 --> 00:09:43.909
for India and the world. And this will also be
148
00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:48.649
a live issue as several African-Americans and Indian-Americans have got
149
00:09:48.710 --> 00:09:49.580
elected in the U.S.
150
00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:50.960
Congress and from the states.
151
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:56.059
And as well as those from say Arab Americans or
152
00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.340
the Hispanic community. So the immigrant origin senators and U.S.
153
00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:07.220
congressmen will obviously be much more sympathetic towards the more
154
00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:12.299
favorable immigration policies. So that is another issue that India
155
00:10:12.340 --> 00:10:15.279
will keep a watch on. How does the Trump administration
156
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:19.019
follow through hereafter after these midterm results?
157
00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.990
And Shubhjeet, now that the Democrats control both chambers of Congress,
158
00:10:24.629 --> 00:10:27.080
what are the key issues India needs to watch out
159
00:10:27.129 --> 00:10:30.120
for and are there any particular concerns for New Delhi?
160
00:10:31.009 --> 00:10:34.970
Well, you know, there are issues like how does the
161
00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:38.690
Trump administration look at China, which India has sort of
162
00:10:38.809 --> 00:10:42.809
seen in the last two years, how it has engaged
163
00:10:42.850 --> 00:10:43.509
with China.
164
00:10:44.070 --> 00:10:45.870
And there's a rapprochement, there is.
165
00:10:45.850 --> 00:10:48.710
Talk of G2 by President Trump himself.
166
00:10:49.289 --> 00:10:51.710
So that is of concern for India.
167
00:10:52.029 --> 00:10:57.080
The other issue is about the Trump administration's proximity and
168
00:10:57.139 --> 00:11:00.600
closeness to Pakistan and its generals.
169
00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:02.600
How does that play out?
170
00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:09.279
Because Trump family has sort of our business interests have
171
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:14.129
cut these crypto deals and critical mineral deals with the
172
00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:20.490
Pakistan entities and Pakistani firms. Now, those deals would also
173
00:11:20.529 --> 00:11:23.980
be under question. So we'll have to see how these
174
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:27.059
two elements play out. And in
terms of the war
175
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.919
in Ukraine, how does Trump sort of engage with Europe
176
00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:36.340
and Russia will be something to watch out for in
177
00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:40.740
the coming days. India also sort of will be under
178
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:46.210
scrutiny from the Democrat lawmakers in the US on India's
179
00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:49.710
human rights record, be it the handling of its protests
180
00:11:50.070 --> 00:11:53.629
or these SIR, which is going on, the voter registration
181
00:11:54.070 --> 00:11:58.269
that's going on. And We have seen those issues be
182
00:11:58.809 --> 00:12:05.379
raised by the Democrat congressmen and congresswomen, including Pramila Jayapal,
183
00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:08.980
who raised this issue to which the Indian government responded
184
00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:11.799
as well, including the Indian ambassador to the U.S.
185
00:12:12.419 --> 00:12:15.740
And so we'll have to see how that also.
186
00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:19.159
Plays out in the next two years with a stronger
187
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:24.320
democratic majority in both houses of the U.S.
188
00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:24.740
Congress.
189
00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:34.169
And next, we talk about Punjab, where three legislators from
190
00:12:34.210 --> 00:12:38.250
the ruling Aam Aadmi Party have joined the BJP, exposing
191
00:12:38.370 --> 00:12:41.909
divisions within the party just months before the state goes
192
00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:46.899
to assembly elections. Last week, Harmeet Singh Pathan Majra from Sannor,
193
00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:51.360
Chetan Singh Jodha Majra from Samna, and Kuver Vijay Pratap
194
00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.779
Singh from Amritsar North formally joined the BJP in New
195
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.539
Delhi after breaking away from AAP. the development comes at
196
00:12:58.580 --> 00:13:02.340
a politically sensitive time for the Bhagwant Maan government as
197
00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:22.480
parties begin preparing for the 2027 assembly elections. But while
198
00:13:22.659 --> 00:13:25.679
all three leaders have ended up in the BJP, the
199
00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:28.759
circumstances behind their departures are quite different.
200
00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:33.070
Take Harmeet Singh Pathan Majra, for instance. He's actually related
201
00:13:33.110 --> 00:13:34.909
to Chief Minister Bhagwant Maan's wife.
202
00:13:36.409 --> 00:13:41.830
And he is MLA from that Sanor constituency of Patiala district.
203
00:13:42.929 --> 00:13:46.139
That's The Indian Express's Rakhi Jagga, who covers the state
204
00:13:46.179 --> 00:13:46.840
for the newspaper.
205
00:13:48.049 --> 00:13:52.350
And he became the MLA in March 2022. And in
206
00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:57.000
August 2022, he was in a controversy regarding bigamy. And
207
00:13:57.029 --> 00:14:01.700
a woman had alleged that on the pretext of marrying her,
208
00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:04.580
he had a live-in relationship with her for the past
209
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.480
many years. And an obscene video of his had also,
210
00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:11.419
I mean, that had also gone viral or that woman
211
00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:12.759
had made that video viral.
212
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:14.299
But despite that, there was.
213
00:14:14.259 --> 00:14:18.269
No action taken against him by the Aam Aadmi Party.
214
00:14:18.370 --> 00:14:20.590
And the leadership at that time, they had said that
215
00:14:20.610 --> 00:14:23.250
it's his personal life and we should not mix the
216
00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:28.120
personal life with the political life. But it was in 2025, August,
217
00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:31.220
that all of a sudden he started speaking against the
218
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.360
government on various issues like mining. And he was saying
219
00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:38.379
that my area is not being looked after. And despite
220
00:14:38.419 --> 00:14:40.950
I am giving so many suggestions, they are not being
221
00:14:40.990 --> 00:14:44.870
taken care of. And maybe he had started apprehending that
222
00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:47.389
they are going to register a case against me.
223
00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:50.509
So on September 1, 2025, you can.
224
00:14:50.409 --> 00:14:54.440
Say that three years after that lady's complaint, they lodged
225
00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:59.139
a rape case against him. And on September 2025, another
226
00:14:59.259 --> 00:15:02.740
FIR was lodged against him in illegal mining case. And
227
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.700
Pathan Majra had disappeared from his house and then, I mean, he.
228
00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:08.799
Fled to Australia.
229
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.809
When we had asked him when he came back, he said,
230
00:15:10.889 --> 00:15:15.009
I had gone there via Burma. And police arrested him
231
00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:19.149
in March this year, 2026. Police arrested him from Gwalior
232
00:15:19.629 --> 00:15:23.909
and then he remained in jail. And gradually he was
233
00:15:23.950 --> 00:15:26.570
given bail in both the cases. He got a regular
234
00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:28.789
bail in that rape case and he got a bail
235
00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:31.299
in that mining case as well. On 31 May, he
236
00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:33.779
came out of jail in both the cases. Now he's
237
00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.940
out on bail in both the cases and he's actively
238
00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:39.019
pursuing his political life.
239
00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.259
So after all.
240
00:15:40.179 --> 00:15:42.679
This controversy, he was sure that he's not going to
241
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.960
get a ticket from the party. So eventually he joined BJP.
242
00:15:49.289 --> 00:15:52.559
So that's the story of Harmeet Singh Pathan Majra. The
243
00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.120
other person who has joined the BJP is Chetan Singh
244
00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.200
Jodha Majra, a former cabinet minister who was once among
245
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.590
the prominent faces of the AAP government.
246
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.059
So he was given the cabinet portfolio in July 2022.
247
00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:09.379
He was made the health minister.
248
00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:13.240
But days after he became the minister, he landed in
249
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:17.879
a controversy. He made the vice-chancellor of Baba Farid Health University.
250
00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:20.570
This is the only health university of Punjab. He made
251
00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:24.710
that vice-chancellor, Dr. Raj Bahadur, lie on a dirty mattress.
252
00:16:24.929 --> 00:16:28.149
When he went to that Faridkot government hospital, I mean,
253
00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:30.769
he went to the hospital to inspect that hospital and
254
00:16:30.809 --> 00:16:34.649
he found anomalies. And then he told the vice-chancellor, can
255
00:16:34.669 --> 00:16:36.669
you lie on this mattress?
256
00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:39.840
And if not, then how can patients sleep on it?
257
00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:43.500
After that, that vice-chancellor, he felt humiliated and he resigned.
258
00:16:43.899 --> 00:16:49.000
And in July 2023, after six months, he was divested
259
00:16:49.059 --> 00:16:53.750
of this portfolio. Rather, he was given much powerful portfolios
260
00:16:53.830 --> 00:16:59.730
after that, water resources, mining, public relations, horticulture, and few
261
00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:04.289
more departments as well. So he continued enjoying this cabinet
262
00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:09.259
portfolio till September 2024. And then there was a rejig
263
00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:12.299
in the cabinet and then he was dropped from the
264
00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:15.819
Council of Ministers. But in May this year, May 2026,
265
00:17:15.819 --> 00:17:19.490
the real twist happened in this year only. When Chetan
266
00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:23.309
Singh Jodha Majra, when he became MLA, he had defeated
267
00:17:23.369 --> 00:17:27.039
Akali Dal candidate Surjeet Singh Rakhta. He's a senior Akali
268
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:32.619
Dal candidate and he remained minister also in Akali BJP government.
269
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.369
So in May this year, Surjit Singh Rakha, whom.
270
00:17:36.210 --> 00:17:39.869
He had defeated in 2022, he joined Aam Aadmi Party
271
00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:40.670
because Rakha.
272
00:17:40.670 --> 00:17:42.099
Rakhda is also from Samana.
273
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.839
So he came as a competitor for Chetan Singh Jodha Majra.
274
00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:50.480
And after that, all the focus was on Surjit Singh
275
00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:53.299
Rakhda only. And Chetan Singh Jodha Majra was given a
276
00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:56.890
cold treatment by the Aam Aadmi Party after that. And
277
00:17:57.130 --> 00:18:00.809
Chetan Singh Jodha Majra had openly been praising the central
278
00:18:00.849 --> 00:18:05.250
government schemes on camera and on his Facebook pages after that.
279
00:18:05.349 --> 00:18:08.519
So he was giving enough indication that.
280
00:18:08.450 --> 00:18:09.380
He's going to join.
281
00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:13.839
BJP because he was praising the Prime Minister, Avaas Yojna
282
00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:15.619
and other schemes on camera.
283
00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:19.789
Now the third leader, Kuver Vijay Pratap Singh, a former
284
00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:23.210
IPS officer, represents a different kind of dissent.
285
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.730
So, I mean, this officer is known for speaking his mind,
286
00:18:27.829 --> 00:18:31.589
irrespective of the fact which government he's part of. So
287
00:18:31.650 --> 00:18:36.410
he took voluntary retirement in April 2021. He was part
288
00:18:36.470 --> 00:18:41.339
of a special investigation team, which was investigating that Kotkapura case.
289
00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:45.039
firing case and Bargadi sacrilege case. I mean, that's an
290
00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:49.180
important case in Punjab where the sacrilege of Guru Granth
291
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.220
Sahib had happened in 2015. So he was the member
292
00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:57.880
of special investigation team investigating those cases. But in April 2021,
293
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.420
the High Court had quashed that report of the SIT
294
00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:06.049
and rather the government was told to form another SIT
295
00:19:06.130 --> 00:19:11.049
without Kumar Vijay Pratap. And in June 2021, he joined
296
00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:14.450
Aam Aadmi Party and in the presence of Arvind Kejriwal.
297
00:19:14.650 --> 00:19:17.599
So at that time, Arvind Kejriwal, he promised that once
298
00:19:17.690 --> 00:19:20.119
the Aam Aadmi Party comes to power, they will give
299
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:24.740
justice in Bargadi sacrilege case, Kotkapura firing cases, Bahebal Kala
300
00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:28.720
firing cases, all connected to that sacrilege case. And Kovar
301
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.140
Vijay Pratap, he was an officer investigating those cases and
302
00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:34.460
now he's part of the party. So he will be
303
00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:37.450
a key player in helping us out to get the
304
00:19:37.490 --> 00:19:40.730
culprits punished. So he was a poster boy of Aam
305
00:19:40.750 --> 00:19:43.670
Aadmi Party because this was a major promise given by
306
00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:47.089
the Aam Aadmi Party before contesting 2022 polls.
307
00:19:47.109 --> 00:19:47.869
So Aam Aadmi Party.
308
00:19:50.210 --> 00:19:53.809
They came to power and Govind Vijay Pratap, he won
309
00:19:53.869 --> 00:20:00.359
from Amritsar North. constituency but after that this sacrilege investigation
310
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.539
cases they went at snail's pace and kubar vijay pratap
311
00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.700
claims that he was hardly consulted on any of the
312
00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:10.069
cases and few months he kept quiet and after that
313
00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:14.069
he started speaking his mind and he started saying he
314
00:20:14.130 --> 00:20:18.109
found that government was wrong or so And mid of
315
00:20:18.329 --> 00:20:22.559
the 2025, maybe I think July 2025, he was suspended
316
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:26.119
by Aam Aadmi Party for five years for anti-party activities.
317
00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:30.339
And so Rakhi, from the BJP's perspective, what is the
318
00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:34.549
significance of inducting these three leaders? Like, is the party
319
00:20:34.589 --> 00:20:38.789
kind of looking to strengthen its organisation in these particular constituencies?
320
00:20:39.569 --> 00:20:42.650
Yeah, of course, because as I mean, we all know
321
00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:46.089
that BJP was earlier in alliance with the Kalidhal and
322
00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:49.650
they used to contest only on 23 seats and the
323
00:20:49.690 --> 00:20:55.000
rest 94 seats Kalidhal used to contest. So in 2020,
324
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.559
Kalidhal parted ways. So before that, BJP had no organizational
325
00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.980
structure in the 94 constituencies or they had a very
326
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.559
weak organizational structure in the rest of the 94 constituencies
327
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:11.400
because they were mainly focused only on the 23 constituencies
328
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:16.630
which were largely in Amritsar, Pathankot, Gurdaspur, a few of
329
00:21:16.670 --> 00:21:20.529
the constituencies in Jalandhar and around area and one each
330
00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:22.549
constituency in Fazilkar and Ferozpur.
331
00:21:22.569 --> 00:21:25.230
So they had no base in these districts.
332
00:21:25.329 --> 00:21:28.089
So although they now over the years they have started
333
00:21:28.150 --> 00:21:31.390
building up so but the I mean, now these sitting MLAs,
334
00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:33.690
if they are joining them, so it's a boost for them.
335
00:21:34.009 --> 00:21:37.349
So they'll get the candidates for their constituencies who are
336
00:21:37.430 --> 00:21:40.910
known faces and who have a support base.
337
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:43.119
So, I mean, it's kind of a boost for them.
338
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:46.160
And if we see Chetan Singh Jara Majra, so he
339
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.480
was given a cold treatment. Otherwise, he's not in much
340
00:21:49.539 --> 00:21:52.819
of any controversy. And Kovar Vijay Pratap, again, he was
341
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:54.240
not in any controversy.
342
00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:55.240
He was simply.
343
00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.849
speaking against the Aam Aadmi Party for all the things
344
00:21:58.950 --> 00:22:01.730
which he felt that they promised and they did not fulfil.
345
00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:05.109
Right, and like you mentioned earlier that the AAP has
346
00:22:05.170 --> 00:22:09.740
dismissed these departures, saying that it had already distanced itself from.
347
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.740
The three leaders. So how do we read this? The
348
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.019
AAP saying these departures do not matter.
349
00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:18.299
Yeah, they are now saying that they are the leftovers.
350
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.490
I mean, soon after they joined, their party general secretary
351
00:22:21.529 --> 00:22:24.369
Baltej Pannu, he said that they are the leftovers and
352
00:22:24.410 --> 00:22:27.470
BJP is having nothing of their own and they are
353
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.579
just taking leftovers of the other parties.
354
00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:30.630
So because they are.
355
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.819
They have already made an alternative arrangement in all these
356
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:38.079
constituencies because once Surjeet Singh Rakhda joined in Samana, he
357
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.099
is a known face, two-time MLA from Samana and he
358
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:44.480
remained a minister as well in Akali BJP government. So
359
00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:48.670
he is a known politician. He has contested many assembly elections.
360
00:22:48.910 --> 00:22:52.490
So they have a backup candidate in that area. And
361
00:22:52.650 --> 00:22:56.670
in Sanaur area, they had already appointed a constituency in charge,
362
00:22:56.970 --> 00:23:01.970
Ranjot Singh Hadana. So he's already campaigning there. When Pathan Majra,
363
00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:06.130
I mean, he ran in September 2025. Soon after, I mean,
364
00:23:06.289 --> 00:23:09.150
they launched an FIR against him. Soon after, they had
365
00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:12.359
appointed Hadana as the constituency in charge. So they have
366
00:23:12.390 --> 00:23:15.960
a backup plan in Sanaur as well. And similarly, they
367
00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:19.779
have a backup plan in... Amritsar North as well. So
368
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:21.839
that's why they are saying that they are not bothered.
369
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:26.279
And Gover Vijay Pratap was also already unhappy with the party.
370
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.220
And they had already there were many few leaders, local
371
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.839
leaders active in that area. So the party have backup plans,
372
00:23:33.859 --> 00:23:37.299
the backup candidates with them in those constituencies.
373
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:39.440
So that's why they are saying that, I mean, it
374
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:40.089
hardly matters.
375
00:23:40.589 --> 00:23:43.519
And Rakhi, we know that these politicians joined another party
376
00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:45.779
while they were elected on ARP tickets.
377
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.529
So, what happens to their assembly membership?
378
00:23:49.170 --> 00:23:52.880
No, but now that once the tenure of the government
379
00:23:52.940 --> 00:23:56.160
is less than six months, so anti-defection law is no
380
00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:57.420
longer applicable on them.
381
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.069
So, I mean, there is no need.
382
00:23:59.829 --> 00:24:03.069
For a re-poll
because the next elections are going to
383
00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.029
happen in February. So if they have resigned and their
384
00:24:07.069 --> 00:24:10.359
resignation has accepted, so they'll continue to stay as MLAs,
385
00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:12.539
but not of the Aam Aadmi Party. or at the
386
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.019
most they will be no longer MLAs and if they
387
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.180
will no longer be MLAs so I mean for three
388
00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:21.440
months time period because in January so there will I
389
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.269
mean code of conduct is likely to be implemented maybe
390
00:24:24.309 --> 00:24:26.470
in the last week of December or maybe in the
391
00:24:26.509 --> 00:24:29.789
first week of January so it's hardly two months left
392
00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:33.470
now and so I mean it hardly matters now and
393
00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:36.750
that's why I mean they strategically choose this time because
394
00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:42.980
there's no point for a And Rakhi, as Punjab approaches
395
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.339
the 2027 assembly elections, what do these three defections tell
396
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.039
us about the political tensions? Like, are parties seeing more
397
00:24:48.059 --> 00:25:05.269
disagreements over ticket distribution? No, as of now, Amadmi Party,
398
00:25:05.309 --> 00:25:08.930
they had hurriedly taken out the first list of the
399
00:25:08.930 --> 00:25:12.490
40 candidates. Now, it apparently, it appears that, I mean,
400
00:25:12.529 --> 00:25:14.910
that was a hurried attempt because they may be aware
401
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.420
that a number of our candidates are going to join.
402
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:19.220
The BJP because.
403
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:24.259
The BJP president, he said that had they not released
404
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:26.980
that list, a number of them would have left the party.
405
00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:30.309
And of course, it causes a major setback to the
406
00:25:30.349 --> 00:25:34.309
ruling party, a party which has 94.
407
00:25:33.089 --> 00:25:36.369
MLAs in majority. And in that party.
408
00:25:36.589 --> 00:25:40.589
If defections are happening, so it's a cause of concern.
409
00:25:40.970 --> 00:25:43.599
And if we see the list of the 40 candidates...
410
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:47.160
Punjab CM Bhagwant Maan has also been listed in that list.
411
00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:49.720
I mean, if there is a requirement to, I mean,
412
00:25:49.779 --> 00:25:53.140
name him in the first list, that also itself explains
413
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.980
that how difficult it is for the ruling party to
414
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.119
regain the ground because he's the tallest leader of the
415
00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:03.599
party and if he listed as a candidate, so maybe,
416
00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:07.240
I mean, the other candidates will stick on or hold
417
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:08.640
on to the party or so.
418
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.579
This is what the political analysts, they see.
419
00:26:16.650 --> 00:26:20.009
And in the end, we talk about an unusual disciplinary
420
00:26:20.190 --> 00:26:24.200
action in Gujarat, where a municipal official was suspended after
421
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:28.039
12 streetlights along a route used by Prime Minister Narendra
422
00:26:28.059 --> 00:26:32.200
Modi were found to be non-functional. Mahesh Vasava, the clerk
423
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.680
in charge of the lighting department at the Boid municipality
424
00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:39.819
in Vatodara district, was suspended for six days for alleged
425
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:40.700
negligence in.
426
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.180
Maintaining the streetlights. Now, the timing is what makes the
427
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:45.769
case particularly striking.
428
00:26:46.309 --> 00:26:50.349
As reported by the Indian Express's Aditi Raja, on 31st October,
429
00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:54.849
Prime Minister Modi, Gujarat Chief Minister Bhupendra Patel and other
430
00:26:54.890 --> 00:26:59.420
dignitaries had attended National Unity Day celebrations at the Statue
431
00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:02.539
of Unity in Ekta Nagar. They were originally expected to
432
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.099
travel to Vadodara airport by helicopter. But because dusk had
433
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:10.809
already fallen, the delegation instead travelled roughly 90 kilometres by road.
434
00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:11.589
That meant.
435
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.559
the route through and around Daboi suddenly became part of
436
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:20.279
the VIP movement plan. The municipality had assigned specific responsibilities
437
00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:24.980
to different departments, including cleanliness, control of stray cattle and
438
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:29.160
maintenance of streetlights. According to the suspension order, Vassava had
439
00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:32.829
been instructed to ensure that the lights were repaired in time.
440
00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:37.349
But along the stretch from Sinnor Crossroads through Bhogol and
441
00:27:37.549 --> 00:27:41.430
up to Sarita Bridge, 12 streetlights were found not working,
442
00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:46.390
while several others were reportedly flickering. The municipality subsequently invoked
443
00:27:46.710 --> 00:27:51.200
Section 48 of the Gujarat Municipalities Act, which allows disciplinary
444
00:27:51.259 --> 00:27:55.299
penalties against municipal officers and employees for what the law
445
00:27:55.339 --> 00:28:00.019
describes as good and sufficient reasons. Vassava has been asked
446
00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.799
to appear before the competent authority and explain why the
447
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:06.009
required repairs were not carried out.
448
00:28:06.609 --> 00:28:08.829
There is, however, another layer to the story.
449
00:28:09.309 --> 00:28:13.190
The suspension order also refers to previous complaints against Vassava
450
00:28:13.490 --> 00:28:16.410
and sources told the Indian Express that the action may
451
00:28:16.609 --> 00:28:21.079
also be connected to other ongoing inquiries into works handled
452
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:31.549
by him. His additional responsibilities have now been withdrawn. You
453
00:28:31.589 --> 00:28:34.529
were listening to Three Things by The Indian Express. Today's
454
00:28:34.609 --> 00:28:37.670
show was edited and mixed by Suresh Bavar and produced
455
00:28:37.710 --> 00:28:40.759
by Niharika Nanda and me, Ichha Sharma. If you like
456
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.759
the show, do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.
457
00:28:44.019 --> 00:28:46.140
You can also recommend it to someone you think may
458
00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:48.359
like it, with a friend or in your family.
459
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.420
This is the best way for people to get to
460
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.160
know about us.
461
00:28:51.549 --> 00:28:54.410
You can also tweet us at Express Podcast or write
462
00:28:54.430 --> 00:28:57.130
to us at podcast at indianexpress.com.