Fullständig transkription av JCIP #378 - Conor Warren

he was able to develop coping mechanisms and took a gap year out to recover. 00:02:52.000 --> 00:03:03.439 He then realized he was ready for full-time education again, moved out of home, and successfully applied for Exeter University, where he is currently studying for a BSC in business. 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:10.719 Connor is only 20 years old at time of recording, but has already achieved so much in his life already. 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:28.400 In this episode, we discussed the work he's doing with Spark UK and We Are Prism, the issues affecting Gen Z right now, and his views on them, which includes social media, masculinity, the Christianity faith revival, education, and young men's relationship with all of those. 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:39.680 For Connor's mental health journey, we discuss his experience of anxiety, that eating disorder, how he conceptualized it being a man as well, and how he recovered and overcame it. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.240 So this is how my conversation with Connor Warren went. 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:50.560 Connor, welcome to the Just Checking In Pod. 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:52.879 Thank you so much for letting me check in with you, mate. 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.879 I'm a big advocate for having young lads on the podcast to share their story and hopefully inspire your peers. 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:04.560 And given how much you've achieved in your career so far, I can't believe you're only 20 years old, much like Friend of the Pod Elliot Buick. 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:05.120 How are you, bud? 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:07.599 Makes me feel very old and very inadequate. 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:09.680 Young at heart, that's what I say. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:11.039 All of us are young at heart. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:12.400 But I'm doing well, thank you. 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:13.919 Thank you so much for having me. 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.240 We had a lovely chat off air, man. 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:19.519 I think your mission and Vent's mission is really well aligned. 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.439 I think we cover quite a lot of similar issues and you cover quite different issues as well. 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.519 There's a lot of topics to discuss. 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.839 So without further delay, are you ready to start the show and talk all about your wonderful journey? 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:31.199 I sure am. 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:39.279 We're going to start your podcast, Con, by talking about your professional journey first. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:46.160 As despite your age, you co-founded your own charity as a teenager and you now run your own consultancy. 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.879 Good God, if I thought the stuff I was getting up to when I was your age. 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.120 It wouldn't be suitable for the listeners, let me just put it that way. 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:55.040 So take me back to the beginning, which isn't that long, ironically. 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:02.879 I believe the Spark, no pun intended, started when an opportunity came up in your secondary school to become a mental health ambassador. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.160 Why did you sign up? 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:10.240 What did you achieve in that role and how did it become the Spark that led to where you are sitting with me today virtually? 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:16.319 Yeah, so I set up when we did this program called Mental Health Ambassadors within my school. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.959 So for me, I just got in secondary school. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:24.800 I was a year seven student, and I was looking for opportunities to get involved within my school. 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:29.279 You know, in primary school I'd been doing things like school counsellors and things like that. 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:36.160 And I always knew that I wanted to be involved with these opportunities and sort of have a say in how things work. 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:42.720 And yeah, this training opportunity for mental health came up, and I didn't really know anything about mental health at that time. 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.079 I was kind of like, oh, mental health is just something people talk about. 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.879 I don't know what it is, but let's go and learn about it. 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:55.519 So I took part in this program as a very naive year seven, which initially was just 10 weeks. 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:01.360 So it was a 10-week training program teaching students from every year group about mental health. 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:05.360 So there was about 20 of us in total, all spanning across the school. 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:14.800 And at the end of the 10 weeks, we did an assembly all about mental health, teaching our peer groups what it is and how to support themselves. 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.920 And after that 10-week process, we decided actually there was so much more in that. 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:28.480 So as a school, we decided to uh continue the mental health ambassador program and actually continue it within the school. 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:34.480 As when new year sevens would join, we would train those year sevens to become mental health ambassadors. 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.920 Then we'd go, we'd do tutor programs, assemblies, we did an offstead conference. 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.240 This was all sort of like year seven, year eight. 00:06:42.399 --> 00:07:00.000 So it was very, I was very young doing all these random stuff with about 20 friends, supported by the school, and it was this really great opportunity to just sort of support people within our school and support people within the local community to learn about mental health, and that sort of really sparked my interest there. 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.160 Wow, school's changed a lot since I was a kid, that's that's for sure. 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.480 Let's talk about Spark then. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:12.240 So, like we said, you co-founded it with a group of

friends in December 2020. 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:16.879 What did you want to achieve with it, and what was the inspiration behind the name, first of all, mate? 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:22.959 Yeah, so uh we uh set it up while still doing mental health ambassadors. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:30.639 So COVID hit, funding got cut by the school, like lots of things, and the staff could no longer support us in the program. 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:32.720 And we kept coming up with these ideas. 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:55.519 If we wanted to do this, one idea that we wanted to do is we wanted to connect the young people within our school with elderly people from the local care homes so they could almost become pen pals because we thought that could support the mental health of the young people as well as the elderly people, but for various reasons, the school shut that idea down because there was too much safeguarding involved and not enough time for the staff to be able to support and things like that. 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:01.279 And we got more and more frustrated by the ideas that we had and the fact that they were being shut down. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:20.240 So a couple of us, you know, went for coffee one day and we were stood on a beach chatting and we were ranting about the mental health system, ranting about how lawful it was, how every mental health resource was an early 2000 BBC 3 documentary that not a single young person enjoyed watching. 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.120 And this was sort of 2020s, you know, mental health wasn't spoken about as much as it is now. 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:35.279 So we wanted celebrities to be talking about mental health, we wanted there to be podcasts about it, we wanted all these different things that actually were not necessarily in the mainstream. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:40.240 So after an hour of ranting, we said, why don't we just try doing this ourselves? 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:57.200 And yeah, it was really just this naivety and ambition that was like, let's just try and change the narrative around youth mental health, and let's try and create things that support young people that really drove us to yeah, where we are today, and that's been an incredible journey. 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:03.759 You now run Spark with just one of your co-founders, so your other two co-founders dropped out at a certain point. 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.960 How did you adjust to that transition going from four to two? 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:10.879 Yeah, I think it was a very difficult journey. 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.080 I think there's no playbook in running a charity from the age of 14. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.519 And when you went, that is a crazy thing to say, bro. 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:20.960 It's absolutely crazy. 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:27.519 And when you are with a group of friends that you made at sort of 14, life happens, things get in the way, you know. 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:35.200 Four people aren't gonna run a national charity for free by themselves at the age of, you know, when they're trying to be teenagers. 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:46.639 So, you know, it's natural for us to lose people, for life to get in the way, university, you know, the teenage years, life, you know, I've had to take a lot of risks. 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:53.279 I've had to lose out on a lot of things to continue running the charity and to miss out on some of those teenage stuff to be able to do that. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.480 So I think it was a big loss in many ways and a big risk. 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.279 So I think, yeah, it was only natural for that to happen. 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:26.240 And I think equally, as time went on, sometimes that was for the best because actually it's hard to get young people involved who, you know, when there was four of us, it was sort of like we always sort of try and take a bit of an ownership in it, but you know, it was difficult when a lot of them had not had jobs before, you know, they don't know how to respond to emails, they don't know how to post on Instagram, these things that kind of like as an organization, you kind of need people to be able to do. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.240 And unfortunately, that just wasn't working. 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.480 So, in many ways, it was for the best. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:34.240 This is a cynical question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:40.720 The pros of doing this at your age is that you are embedded within your peer group, right? 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:47.440 You know what they think by and large, you know what the issues are being covered or are concerned about. 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:59.279 But on the other, there's the challenge of or the flaw that therapy culture kind of promotes, which is that young people all are getting therapeutic language too early. 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.679 They're perhaps self-diagnosing. 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:07.200 We know all about TikTok Tourette's and DID on TikTok and all of this other stuff, right? 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:14.080 You said you were creating mental health resources for Spark from your bedroom as a 14-year-old, literally a child. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.799 I mean, you're still a little bit of a child now, but you're a young man now, I'll give you that. 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:23.840 How did you know the resources you were creating would be accurate and would be impactful and age-appropriate? 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:35.919 Yeah, I think that was something that we did really struggle with to begin with, because you know, as you said, we were 14-year-olds, we weren't trained psychologists, we weren't mental health professionals, we were just a bunch of teenagers with lived experience. 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:39.440 So for us, it was all about research. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:42.480 So we would come up with an idea of a topic. 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:45.840 So, say we wanted to do a load of lessons on anxiety.

00:11:46.080 --> 00:12:03.440 What we'd do is we would read as many books as possible about anxiety from professionals, and we'd turn the findings from those books into resources, and then we'd reach out to the authors of those books and say, Hey, we're a bunch of young people trying to create resources. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:10.480 Can you read these resources and say whether you think this is accurate or not to what your book says? 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:18.799 And we would sort of do this cycle of actually getting that professional input from the get-go, ensuring that everything we do is factual. 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:27.279 Still to this day, we don't release anything without it being backed by science or by professionals or by anything like that. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:34.399 You know, I don't out of my mind just release a load of stuff because actually I'm not a trained mental professional. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:42.240 I equally can probably go down in the rabbit hole of TikTok and social media and sort of being swayed by these terminologies and things. 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:59.519 So I very much try to stay impartial to that, I guess, in many ways, and trying to ensure that the research is backed, that everything we do is making sure that, you know, I read books about it, and now you know we're in a fortunate position where Bridy, my co-founder, she's just finished her clinical psychology degree. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:04.320 So she really brings that clinical psychology point of view and the sort of professional side. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.360 So I'll say a load of rubbish to her and she'll go, No, you're wrong. 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.559 You've seen that on TikTok. 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:18.480 This is the actual clinical side of that, and it's a really good to have that within the charity to be able to, yeah, bounce that off and ensure that everything is approved and correct. 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:19.679 Good man. 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:26.240 As of today, bro, as you told me off air, Spark has resources in over 300 schools across the UK. 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:32.879 So that includes primary schools, secondary schools, and even some six-form colleges or colleges that are not tied to a school. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.039 What's been key to that success? 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.600 And as I say a lot on this podcast with men, trust is massive, right? 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:42.639 Far higher trust levels needed for men on average than women. 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:48.879 How did you build the trust with these educational institutions for them to promote your materials to their young people? 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.000 Yeah, I think a lot of it was perseverance. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:59.519 You know, we started and we had no track record, we didn't have any contacts, we started completely from scratch, you know, we had no money. 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:03.200 It wasn't like a load of rich people gave us millions of pounds

to be able to do stuff. 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:09.919 It was literally me, my laptop, Canva, and LinkedIn were the ways that we started. 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:25.440 And to begin with, it was actually our marketing approach to begin with was I knew that every county had a head of education who would then be the one that would be directing stuff to all of the schools across their county. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:34.320 So we approached every single head of education and I had a list of every county and every head of education, and so we have a bunch of free resources for schools. 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.120 Can you please promote this to your schools? 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:49.279 And this was, you know, right as we were starting, and it was like we had maybe three out of the 60 something reply to me, and they would sort of put on their newsletter to schools, and I would sort of start to promote it. 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:55.440 But yeah, a lot of it to begin with was just cold emailing people and just saying, Hey, this is who we are, can we offer this to you? 00:14:55.679 --> 00:15:06.159 And then we got really fortunate within sort of the latter half of the first year, we started getting a lot of media attention, and since then it's sort of been more organic of me going and doing talks and things like that. 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:22.639 But to begin with, it really was that kind of perseverance and you know, building that trust and saying, actually, you know, our unique thing is that we are young people, that we are building this by young people for young people, and I think that is that very unique factor, which there isn't really many resources out there like that for schools. 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:42.639 So we build that trust with the young people, and actually, a lot of the time now it's the young people that are driving for the resources to be used within the school, and then equally, you know, by me sharing my story at educational conferences, things like that, we build that trust with the teachers because they hear about us as sort of more credible sources. 00:15:42.960 --> 00:16:02.320 We do lots of guest blog posts and things like that for various different educational providers, and by building that trust with them through me sharing my story and what we do now and the credibility of the organizations and charities and celebrities we've worked with, that really helps us to sort of gain that stand in which we do have now. 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:10.240 You've had the opportunity to work with some pretty big celebs, Sir Stephen Fry, Trailblazer, Joe Suggs, Bear Grills. 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:10.960 I even saw. 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.039 I also saw some men's meant to have advocates. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.679 I saw Ben West, even Friend of the Pod, Sean Flores. 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:17.360 My word, that guy gets about. 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:25.279 What has that been like, especially as I imagine you were probably still a teenager when they were getting in touch with you, or you were getting in touch with them, I should say. 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:45.039 And have you been able to cut through with some of these celebrities who might perhaps have some assumptions or preconceived notions of what especially Gen Z lads might be like before they meet you, your team, and you share some of your experiences and what your peers are saying to you as well. 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:53.759 Yeah, I think you know, we've been really fortunate to be able to work with some incredible people that most charities in the UK can only dream of working with. 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.600 I know I could, mate. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:03.600 Yeah, it's it's been incredible, and it's been a big selling point of what we do is you know, these celebrity campaigns and working with these incredible people. 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.480 And you know, yeah, you said so many amazing people, you know. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:15.119 Stephen Fry has supported us every single year since we started and sending us videos for our campaigns, and you know, I send him an email, and usually I get a response within the same day. 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.680 Sometimes even from a video the same day, I ask him and amazing things like that, which is great. 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:27.359 And you know, I've known Ben for years, and he's absolutely amazing, and we've done men's health together and all sorts, and it's been incredible. 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:33.680 And yeah, I think there is very much when we started, there was still this naivety around. 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:41.440 So the big part of our campaign was every day in December we'd get celebrities sending them videos, giving tips to young people on mental health. 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.599 So we ran that campaign for six years. 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:49.680 Incredible celebrities, and when we first started, so many people were very reluctant to do it. 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:58.880 They didn't want to then equally go so extreme that they would then be given kids ideas or things like that, which they sort of thought that that was the case. 00:17:59.119 --> 00:17:59.599 Yeah, yeah. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:29.119 Whereas now, you know, we finished the campaign last year and did our last year of the campaign, and the videos we got last year were so much more authentic because actually the conversations had shifted so much that actually they felt like they could and they felt more able to have those conversations, and in my opinion, those authentic conversations are the ones that are going to support young people so much more because they can see themselves in those videos, and I think that's what we try to do. 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:38.400 You know, the celebrities we work with, we've had everybody from, you know, as you said, Stephen Fry, Bear Grizzles, all the way down to Love Islanders, Judy Dent, Sherma Thompson. 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.799 We try to get a

broad range of people from every sector, every uh genre. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:52.640 So actually, every December, there is somebody that some person watching can relate to or idolise. 00:18:53.119 --> 00:19:01.920 So that way there's somebody that they look up to that if they're hearing them talk about their mental health, it's okay for them to share about their mental health. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:16.160 And I think that's really important, and that's a conversation that's really shifted in the past couple of years, and we've sort of watched first hand and how those perceptions of actually to begin with, we'd have to sort of write scripts for the celebrities to read off of. 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:27.200 Whereas now they don't even ask at all, they just straight away send a video and they're comfortable sending that and they feel secure in that because they know that the conversation has changed a lot. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.279 Hey, Dame Judy Dench, mate. 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:30.559 Don't forget your manners, eh? 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.920 Dame Judy Dench, absolute legends. 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:45.279 What I love particularly about the work you do, mate, is that you don't tiptoe around some of the real stigmatized issues that affect someone's mental health. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.599 And these are the risk factors that lie behind something like suicide. 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:54.000 So self-harm, eating disorders, the list goes on. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.799 How do you do that in an age-appropriate way? 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:11.039 And also, as I've covered on this podcast, brother, there are issues that affect a lot of men, and particularly young men, whether that's domestic abuse, sexual abuse, they are ones that most mental health podcasts don't want to cover. 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:18.319 Even mental health organizations don't want to cover because it doesn't fit their, let's say, established narrative, right? 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.720 So, A, how do you cover the former issues well? 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:29.200 And B, are there any of those in that list that you'd like to cover or advocate on in the future that would help young men to? 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:37.440 Yeah, I think for us, we very much understand that mental health is not a one-size-fits-all approach. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:42.799 And actually, there is so much in it, and we try and support in as many ways as we possibly can. 00:20:43.119 --> 00:21:01.279 When it comes to things like suicide and self-harm, we've been quite strong advocates about that being taught in schools because actually, when we first started, you know, there was this thing of actually teachers were afraid to say suicide or self-harm in a classroom because they were worried that they'd be planting seeds in young people's heads. 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:19.279 In reality, those seeds are coming far earlier from other things, and actually, it's not going to provoke anything by them saying it in class, it's actually more likely to encourage the young people to seek support if you're using those words because they feel that actually you know the teacher understands what that is. 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:28.480 But equally we're in this world of social media now where young people are seeing everything on TikTok, there's no filter on TikTok. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:42.240 You see everything, and a lot of the time, my mentality is I would rather a young person learn about that in an informative, correct way in a classroom where they're supported and it's not fake news. 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:55.279 It is scientifically backed than them watching a TikTok learning about it by some fake news person who is spreading misinformation and making the young person feel worse in a bedroom where they're not supported. 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.559 Five reasons why you might have X, and here's why. 00:21:58.880 --> 00:21:59.200 Exactly. 00:21:59.359 --> 00:21:59.680 Exactly. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:09.599 I'd much rather than learn about that in the classroom because at the end of the day, that's what the education system's there for is to support young people and to educate them in a way that they're supported. 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.599 And I think that is really important and that's what we're missing out on right now. 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:23.200 And I think for us as an organization, we try and create that content that is educational, that is safe, that can be delivered in classrooms. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:30.400 In, you know, so many young people are now being homeschooled, and we're trying to adapt all of our resources to be accessible for homeschooled students. 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:40.799 As well as then, you know, we're doing a really big shift right now on video content and short-form content that is educational, that can be used both in the classroom but also on social media. 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.079 So actually, young people can have this trusted site on TikTok that they can go to for that support. 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:53.359 And yeah, we really try to, you know, not shy away from any topics. 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:58.640 And, you know, we aren't professionals and everything, you know, we aren't a suicide-specific charity. 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:12.160 We abroad, so we work with partners, we work with suicide-specific charities, self-harmed charities, you know, we're looking and scoping with, you know, domestic abuse charities to really try and bring this ecosystem together. 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:19.519 So actually, it's not siloed and it's not only suicide support, only domestic abuse support, because we know that it's all so interconnected. 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:44.000 And if we can try and be the people to interconnect it all together and create these resources that then schools can use, that's kind of our aim, and just to bring everybody together and ensure that no matter what you're going through, there is

support there and there is conversations happening by young people, for young people around all these different topics, and that's sort of where we are aiming to be as an organization. 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.920 Before we move on to Prism, or we are Prism, I should say. 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.640 What do you think society gets right about Gen Z? 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.200 And what do you think it gets wrong right now? 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.319 Yeah, that's an interesting question. 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:03.920 I would say the things society gets right about Gen Z are. 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.279 I'm gonna say wrong first, actually. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:08.880 That's an easier one. 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:09.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:10.240 That's easy. 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.160 I think there's so many things I can go about wrong. 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:19.759 I think Gen Z are lazy is a word I hear in the news constantly, and I think that is completely wrong. 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:26.960 I think it is, you know, not to sound like one of those people, but it's so hard for Gen Z right now. 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:32.480 We're in this world where everything seems different. 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:38.960 You know, look at me right now, I'm 20 from year nine to year 11 was COVID. 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:45.119 So those were the formative years where you do work at Spring, you do your GCSCs, all of that was in lockdown in my house. 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:52.880 Then we go into university, and I currently my student finance doesn't cover my accommodation. 00:24:53.119 --> 00:25:13.200 So I am having to work as well as my student finance to be able to cover basic rent and bills, and I'm gonna have to be paying that back for years and years and years and years and years, which is by the end of university, I'm gonna be in hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of debt just to get a degree, which society tells you, oh, you should have a degree. 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.559 While I was in sit form, everybody was encouraged to go to university. 00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.119 There isn't really another option, just go to university. 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:21.200 The job market out of university. 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:26.000 I know people that have applied for thousands of jobs and still not even got an interview. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:33.519 My best friend's been trying to get a placement for six months, and she's struggling to get a placement on her course, which shouldn't be the case. 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:41.279 You know, I live in a touristy area, and it was traditional for everybody to just, you know, you go work at the fish and chip shop, or you'd go work somewhere else. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.160 And now you have to be 16 to go and get a job. 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:47.440 And I was 13 when I got my first job, and it was it was great. 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:57.039 Whereas my sister now, who's 15, she's really, really struggled to get a job because of insurance and health and safety and all these different things that nobody will employ under 16-year-olds. 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:13.839 So it is this world in which everything that was quite normal has all of a sudden been thrown out the window, and Gen Z are trying to just fight for it and trying to live and afford to live, and it's so difficult to do that. 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.599 And there's the uncertainty, you know, everything's uncertain right now. 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:21.359 You watch the news, you can't predict what's going to happen tomorrow. 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:30.640 You can't predict who our prime minister's gonna be, you can't predict anything right now because it is just such an uncertain time, and you know, there's no stability. 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:42.720 You know, a lot of Gen Z are in that stage where they don't really have any stability at the moment, you know, they don't have their career sorted, they don't have a house if they can ever afford a house, all of these different things, they don't have that stability. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:56.799 I think that's really where this uncertainty comes, is where until you get the stability and you know that actually you've got a house, you've got a career, you've got these different things, then that uncertainty doesn't hit quite as much because it doesn't affect you too much. 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:00.640 Whereas when you're looking for all that in the future, it's really scary. 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.319 But enough of the depression of that rant over. 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:05.359 Ran over. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:14.000 I think the things that people are getting right about Gen Z is people are recognising a drive in Gen Z, and I think it's only just starting to happen now. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:37.039 But there is this real drive within so many Gen Z, which is almost the opposite of what I just said, but it's becoming more and more of actually, you know, you look at these activists, and whether you agree with them or not, you've got people like Malala, like Greta Thunberg, you know, they are Gen Z advocates, they are literally changing the world, and they're Gen Z, they're teenagers. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:57.920 There is this drive, and if you give young people the opportunities and the uh platforms to be able to drive change, I think this world is going to be a hundred times better because actually they do have such a drive, they see the world in a very unique way, and I think that's what we are missing out on as a society right now, and I think that's what people are starting to realise. 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:10.400 And people like Elliot and stuff are really proving that actually Gen Z are being taken more seriously, and these drived individuals are really changing how we see things and how the conversations happen. 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.000 And I think, yeah, that's a bit of optimism in that very negative rant.

00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.759 No, very much so, and you as well in that space as well. 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.240 Yeah, Malala particularly is so inspirational. 00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.480 She also makes you feel quite inadequate yourself, you know. 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.079 She gets shot by the Taliban and she goes to Oxbridge, and now she's absolutely smashing your life. 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.559 Do you know what I mean? 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.039 Here's here's me sitting in my uh flats talking to you. 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:30.240 You're pretty inspirational as well. 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:31.359 So fucking hell. 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.160 Let's talk about We Are Prism very briefly because we've got so many other issues to cover. 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.920 So you set it up in February 2026. 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.559 Again, what was the inspiration behind the name? 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:44.160 And why did you want to set it up? 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:48.640 As running Spark UK is already a lot to have on your plate, mate. 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:54.400 Yeah, I think for me, you know, I've been in this sex now for six years, which is crazy to think. 00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:05.119 And I've always been involved in youth voice in many different aspects when it comes to charities, councils, governments, you name it. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.400 Everybody all of a sudden likes to have a bit of tokenistic youth voice. 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.319 And I hate when it's tokenistic. 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:20.960 I hate when it's done as a press opportunity or a tick box exercise where we're a youth charity, we better get the young people to basically a lot like men's mental health mate. 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:22.720 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:40.799 And I got really fed up of that, and I got really fed up of going to these events where you'd be given pizza, you wouldn't be paid travel or expenses, you'd just be given some Domino's pizza to basically sit and talk and open up about your life for a couple hours, and then that's it, and it kind of nothing comes from it. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:50.079 And talking to so many young people in the same space as me, everybody feels the same, and it feels like we're on this carousel where we just constantly go round and constantly doing it. 00:29:50.400 --> 00:30:11.200 And yeah, I was kind of like again, it was similar to that sort of that rant about okay, how do we create a system in which young people are actually taken seriously for their input, and they actually get given the opportunities and the right levels of involvement, right levels of pay, all these different things that they deserve. 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:23.279 Because you know, you look at the bigger companies, consultants get like hundreds of thousands of pounds a year for the work they do, like million-pound contracts for some of these bigger companies, and that's what Youth Voice is. 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:28.400 They're basically youth consultants, but they're not getting paid, whereas the consultants are. 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:41.519 So the same charity will happily bring in hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of consultants for a branding to change their colour from white to black, whereas they won't pay the young people who are changing all of their programs and bringing all this input. 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.519 And I think that really frustrated me. 00:30:43.759 --> 00:31:04.960 So I set up We Are Prism with the point of trying to change that system, trying to work with companies, charities, brands, governments, councils to bring in youth voice that's authentic, that's actually listened to, and actually ensures that young people are paid adequately for their time. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:13.839 And I think that's something that's really important to me and really, you know, away from the charity world, because as much as I love the charity sector, it's doom and gloom at the minute. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:22.720 Funding cuts, you know, nobody's got money, so nobody's donating, all of these different things is it's scary for charities to operate. 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:45.440 So for me, I wanted to take a step back from that and actually, you know, I love Spark, but right now, for me as a student, as needing to be able to afford to live, I felt that actually going into the consultancy world is much easier for me to be able to build a business in which is profitable, that I can drive that money into being able to pay myself and then pay the charity and fund the charity. 00:31:45.599 --> 00:32:06.240 So, you know, we are still very much in early days and we're still scoping exactly what we stand for and what we do, but we're starting to work on some projects with councils and various different brands to be able to bring in that youth voice and show them this is what young people want, this is what young people think we should do, and let's work together to ensure that that is properly delivered. 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.480 I think that's yeah, really important to me. 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.440 Good man. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:10.880 You'd be surprised, mate. 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.799 It doesn't just happen to young people, it happens to people, especially men in this space. 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:18.880 You'll get brands who ask you about, I don't get many now because I've basically been cancelled from the mainstream. 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.440 You'll get brands kind of ask you, Oh, can you come and do this talk? 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.519 And I'll be like, Yeah, any chance of being paid for it? 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:24.480 And they'd be like, nah. 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:26.480 I'd be like, Well, it's gotta be a no then. 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:28.880 And then they sort of get their backs up as to why you've said no. 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.359 And I'm like, guys, I've got a life to live here. 00:32:31.519 -->

00:32:33.759 Before we move on to issues, one more question. 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:45.519 You have over a hundred young people of various followings, shall we say, in your contact network through We Are Prism that you use for qualitative research? 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:57.119 And I said to you off air, it very much feels like you want to become an organization sort of like Ipsos Mori or Ugov, but really focused on Gen Z. 00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.000 Would that be a fair reflection of the ambition, mate? 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:07.920 Yeah, I think we very much want to be an organization that is the go-to for Youth Voice. 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:13.920 You know, when you look at things like UGov and those sort of organizations, there is nothing specifically for young people. 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:24.160 I've had partners come to us and say, oh, you know, we want a bunch of Youth Voice, and you know, who do we go to to pay£10,000 to go get a bunch of numbers off them? 00:33:24.319 --> 00:34:10.639 I'm like, well, actually, for young people, there isn't you've got Ugov, but their target isn't young people, and so we're kind of wanting to proactively, you know, we've got this network of young people, and you know, equally out of that network, all of them then have networks of people, and we've sort of got this large base of young people that we can go to for feedback, and you know, we are equally rooted within our communities, so even outside of prison voices, we have people that we go to within local communities or wherever it is, and yeah, we really want to build this system where people can come to us and say, we want to know what young people are thinking, and we can go out to those young people and ask them and help them to drive that change and drive that input that they want. 00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:13.840 Let's talk about the issues now that you cover. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.920 First one, masculinity, hot button issue. 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:21.760 Everyone fucking seems to be talking about this right now, but not a lot of people seem to be listening to young men and boys when it comes to masculinity. 00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.400 So, nice and easy question to start with. 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.480 Where do you think we are right now in the mainstream conversation on it? 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:30.880 And what are your views about it? 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:39.119 Yeah, I think, as you said, that masculinity is very much a conversation that seemed to be thrown into the forefront over the past two years. 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:56.880 You know, Netflix has had a filled day with their documentaries and TV shows and things like that, which in many ways has been somewhat helpful to have the conversation going, but equally I feel that actually the conversation is not as nuanced as it should be. 00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.599 And I feel like that's being kind. 00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:05.920 Yeah, I feel that the conversations is very much villainizing young men within the media. 00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:06.719 Why, mate? 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:07.360 Let's dive in. 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:08.079 Why is that? 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:20.880 I think what I always say is people are scared of the unknown, and especially older generations, as humans, we're very quick to blame, and we're very quick to quickly pass on the blame to someone else. 00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:37.519 I think this whole world of social media, of men's mental health, I'm not gonna call it the manosphere because that's a very negative term, but sort of the men's side of social media, I think, is very uncertain for a lot of mainstream media. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.639 So I feel actually they don't understand it. 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:42.000 So what's the next thing to do? 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:44.559 Blame it or uh do that kind of things. 00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:47.599 And I think that's why we're seeing these conversations really happen. 00:35:47.760 --> 00:36:40.400 And I think, yeah, we're seeing this villainization and this kind of thing where young men are being put into this box of you must agree with all of this content and everything the Tates have ever said or done in their lives, and you must agree with all these different things, and in reality, that's not the case, but that's what we're seeing, and this is them putting young men in a position where they feel that they can't talk about things because they are judged as this, and I think that's what we're really seeing, and the reality is not that case, and you know, the conversations I have with professionals and the the ones that work directly with young people equally know that's not the case, but we're seeing in the more wider stream session that actually it is happening, and I think you know, a lot of these conversations have been very convenient as to when social media bans have happened and things like that. 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:51.679 So I think there is those high-level things as well, which is really changing those systems and creating almost scaremongering campaigns to encourage people to ban social media and things like that. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.840 We'll come to that in a second, mate. 00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:01.440 When I try and put myself in the shoes of these young men, I think about the messages they've been given in the last 10 years. 00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:06.079 I've been fighting against this for a long time, and and I own my own evolution on the issue as well. 00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:18.000 You know, when I started the podcast, I was talking about toxic masculinity and how we changed the conversation, and then my views evolved, and I was actually thinking, this isn't a helpful term, this is actually demonizing men, and my views evolved with that, right? 00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:25.440 But I think to myself, women of your age are out-earning men, so 16 to 24. 00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:44.400 Women are doing far better educationally at

your age, but then men are getting told you're part of the patriarchy, they're getting told their masculinity is toxic, and I think to myself, if I was a young boy, I would feel a little bit demonized, I would feel a little bit vilified. 00:37:44.880 --> 00:38:11.440 So how would you respond to the probably claims that your peers make or have even said to you about that demonization and the fact that they feel they're not getting ahead in life, they feel that they are being blamed for being men, but then when it comes to the support for these issues, come back to domestic abuse, come back to sexual abuse, there's not much there for them either. 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:31.360 Yeah, I think that is pretty much nail on the head of exactly what's going on right now, and I think it's really difficult, and I think you know, you know, when I talk to young men about this topic, it is that kind of almost hopelessness of actually they don't feel supported in any systems and they don't feel seen. 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:42.639 We're seeing in the media this sort of representation of a certain type of man, and this is what it's expected to be, and I think that's you know not the case. 00:38:42.719 --> 00:39:01.679 And you know, I'm a big supporter of things like Andy's Man Club and things like that, which are starting to grow in popularity across the country, and I know various places are getting things like that, but that's kind of the only thing that's out there for it, and equally that's not the most accessible thing for a young man who's you know teenagers, things like that. 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.559 There are other things that they're just not as popular as Andy's Man Club. 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:06.880 I've got no problem with Andy's Man Club, they do a great job. 00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.000 I know Luke very well. 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:20.960 But what happens is when an organization that becomes that big, they come back to this one size fits all approach, you know, nine lads in a room, it worked for some lads, absolutely great, and and go prosper and go be supported, but it doesn't work for a lot of other lads. 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:25.199 And people might just go, oh well, go to Andy's Man Club or go to therapy. 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:28.079 And it's like a lot of men won't be helped by either of those, right? 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:29.119 Especially young lads. 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:31.920 Yeah, and it's about normalizing those conversations. 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:33.920 That's the thing that's really important. 00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:43.199 It's you know, normalizing the conversations around mental health, normalizing conversations that happens to everybody, gender as no factor in mental health, or abuse, mate. 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:44.400 Yeah, exactly. 00:39:44.880 --> 00:40:13.119 And I think that is so important, and I think that's unfortunately a societal thing that will take time, and you know, we shouldn't have time, like it should just happen, it should be the forefront of everything, but unfortunately it's not right now, and I think it's difficult, and it's trying to allow men to understand that they're allowed to have emotions, they're allowed to have feelings, and I think, yeah, that's kind of the direction that we need to be going down as a society. 00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:25.679 What's been sad in the last five or six years is that impressionable young boys who have been misguided are vilified for consuming the content of bad actors. 00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:27.119 Let's just put it that way, right? 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:36.239 And thanks to my friend Freyer India, we are finally seeing exposure of the female side of that term we're not going to use the femisphere. 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:42.000 So negative female content creators giving young girls harmful messages about a range of issues. 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:43.760 I'm not going to ask you to comment on that. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:54.079 But what I don't see is the vilification of the girls who consume that content in a way that we don't see grace given to the boys. 00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:56.320 Why do you think that is, mate? 00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:58.559 Oh well, that's a good question. 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:07.039 I think it's very much I think to begin with, the male side was exposed a lot more early. 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:19.440 So actually, as a society, it was all of the pressure was on that, and nobody particularly publicly was looking at the other side and realised it is much more of a balanced thing where it happens both sides. 00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:28.400 And I think when it comes to the male side, yeah, it was very publicised, it was very big. 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.480 I think we're still a few years out from the equivalent happening. 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:40.880 If it does happen to the opposite side, I don't know if I can see Louis through doing a documentary on the other side coming up on Netflix anytime soon. 00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:44.960 I feel like that maybe is probably not going to happen. 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:49.760 And I don't know if as a society that's something that will happen. 00:41:50.079 --> 00:42:05.679 Because the place we're at in society right now, when it comes to gender and things like that, you know, it's very much you know, men are easier targets, I guess, at the moment when it comes to things because they can deal with it better. 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:11.599 I think that's the thing that society sees as right now, which is not the case, but in the media that seems to be what it is. 00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:22.800 Yeah, there have been some content, but it's not been very good, let me put it that way, except for Freya, and I am constantly calling out other content creators by just commenting, Freya did this first, guys, just give her a bit of credit. 00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:25.440 Let's talk about social media. 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:30.800 On the one side, you've got

Jonathan Haidt and other acolytes of his. 00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.039 On the other, you've got people like my friend Dr. 00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:34.239 Lucy Folkes, Dr. 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:43.119 Amy Orban, Pete Etchels, list goes on, who offer a more nuanced perspective on social media and its potential harms, right? 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:49.360 So in June 2026, the UK government announced it will ban social media for all under-16s. 00:42:49.519 --> 00:43:02.480 The ban will include platforms like Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and X, formerly known as Twitter, as well as gaming platforms like Discord, and it will aim to mirror the ban in place in Australia too. 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:07.679 Now, there's currently a new Labour government in place at time of recording, so who knows whether they'll carry through with it. 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:12.320 But what was your reaction to it when it was announced and your peers you spoke to? 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.119 Yeah, I understand both sides of the argument. 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.000 However, I was publicly very against the ban. 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:23.199 I was fighting with numerous charities. 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.840 I was fighting the government for no ban. 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:30.719 I was, you know, at Down in the street doing all sorts to get that conversation going. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.360 And unfortunately, it was a very defeated day. 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:39.199 I woke up to many calls from the BBC and LBC and ITV trying to get my comments. 00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:40.480 Is this a paid opportunity? 00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:43.119 No. 00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:44.639 Very much. 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:52.000 I remember waking up that morning, checking my phone to many missed calls and many messages, and thinking this is going to be a long few days. 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.360 And that was a very long few days and a long week. 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:59.760 I feel it was a very knee-jack reaction to so much confidence. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.280 Complex thing, you know. 00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:06.719 The announcement came probably three weeks after the consultation, probably less time than that. 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:11.039 And the consultation was three months. 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:12.800 So you do the maths. 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:17.760 How can a decision be made of three months worth of research in less than three weeks? 00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:21.440 Things don't add up because there's so much more complex than that. 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:35.840 And I know from the inside of people that were working for the Department of Science, Innovation, Technology at the time, and people working for the government that you know conversations were had that were very new-jerk and maybe didn't fully agreed by everybody involved. 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:40.320 And I think, yeah, it is a time in which, again, uncertainty. 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.440 We know that they've committed to doing banning this, but we don't know how they're doing that. 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.280 We don't know what they're coming out of. 00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:50.880 It seems to be drip fed through the media every now and again. 00:44:51.199 --> 00:45:10.159 So the week before Kia Starmer had left, he uh announced that midnight curfews were gonna be on for 16 to 18-year-olds, I believe it was, we're gonna get midnight curfews, so they could not scroll on social media past midnight until 6 a.m., I believe. 00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.719 Don't correct me on that, but that's pretty certain those are the statistics. 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:20.320 But but we don't know exactly what it's gonna look like, what form these bands are gonna take in. 00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:30.960 We know that those curfews are actually optional, so users can actually choose to turn off those curfews and bypass them, which is an interesting approach. 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:37.440 We are seeing social media companies step up quickly to create safer platforms. 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:46.079 We're seeing, you know, whether it's right or wrong, we're seeing things like meta now when young people are mentioning words like suicidal self-harm. 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:52.320 If they're on a teenage account, it is being notifying their parents that those terminologies have been used. 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:55.760 Some cases that works, some cases it probably doesn't work. 00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.559 But we are seeing these social media platforms quickly try and drive these changes. 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:04.000 And as you said, we're trying to mirror an Australian approach. 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:15.679 We've been doing a lot of work with the Molly Rose Foundation who have been researching Australia and proven that actually 70% of young people in Australia are still on social media in one form or another. 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:23.760 And we're seeing that Australia is now they've got the most under-16s on Roblox than any other country. 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:30.880 So all under-16s have just moved over to Roblox, which in my opinion is actually much less safe than so many other platforms. 00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:37.119 So we are seeing this still happening, and you know, there is that lot of uncertainty in whether it works or whether it doesn't. 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:46.639 In the interest of time, let's move on to the final issue, which is faith, which you cover and the faith revival amongst Gen Z, especially Gen Z men. 00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:55.920 So you are a Christian yourself, you are slightly biased on this, and this trend is disputed by some, but nonetheless, I'll still man the argument first. 00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:04.239 So, data from a major Ugov and Bible Society report titled The Quiet Revival found that Gen Z is reversing decades of British secularization. 00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:11.199 Regular monthly church attendance among 18 to 24 year olds

quadrupled, jumping from 4% in 2018 to 16%. 00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.480 This trend is overwhelmingly driven by young men. 00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:20.400 Monthly church attendance for young men rose from 4% to 21% compared to young women who rose to 12%. 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:22.239 So, what's your view on it? 00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.760 And what do you think it's saying about young men in particular as well? 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:29.599 Yeah, so I'm very much within that quiet revival. 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.840 So I didn't grow up Christian. 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.840 I'm not from a Christian family. 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:46.320 I at the age of 17 started going to church, got baptised last year, and it's been very much a quite tight journey that has been following many young people within the quiet revival. 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:50.880 So I kind of can come from it at that angle because I kind of know why and what it's like. 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:54.960 And I think it interrelates to the two topics we just spoke about. 00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:24.159 I think it all begins with this sort of masculinity topic around a lot of the influences that young men were watching were, you know, giving all this spills of knowledge, and you know, some of it was a load of rubbish, but a lot of it was coming from biblical understandings and biblical teachings, and that is what a lot of the young men actually saw themselves in, and that's what they sort of drew attracted to. 00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:37.360 And we see you know, the quiet revival is almost tracked at the downfall of two notorious influencers, and the church attendance has there's almost a cross path of the two of the decline and the incline. 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:57.280 And we're seeing these young men who were you know finding purpose in this content and this kind of thing actually find as soon as that sort of started going on the decline, they were seeking purpose elsewhere, and they found that purpose by going to church, by building a community. 00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.519 Whether you're going to church and you actually believe or not, those are two different things. 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:08.719 But in the current world, the only place on a Friday night that's open for young people to go to is a church on their youth group. 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:14.639 The only place on a Sunday morning that's a warm building that you can go to is highly likely a church. 00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:15.199 Or a gym. 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:16.000 Yeah, or a gym. 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:17.519 But again, gyms you've got to pay for. 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:17.760 Yeah. 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.920 So you've got these free accessible places for young people to go to. 00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:24.960 Youth clubs aren't really around that much anymore. 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:28.480 Most youth clubs have moved over to church buildings. 00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:36.320 So we're seeing that there's so many ways in which young people are just being drawn into it, and then that's seeking for purpose. 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:40.320 The only thing that's certain for a lot of people is the Bible. 00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:54.480 So in this world of uncertainty, they've got this book which is claimed to be certain, and that gives stability and that gives purpose for them to navigate the uh uncertainty. 00:49:54.719 --> 00:50:01.920 I'm trying to sort of bring bias aside from this and trying to just give the contextual information right and that's yeah, where we're seeing it happen. 00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:03.840 No, you can give bias, it's fine, bro. 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:14.079 My view on some of these influences, sort of come to God moments is definitely pessimistic, and I definitely think there's a grift in there for a lot of them. 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:24.320 But if the consequence has been young men are going to church or whatever denominated religion and finding purpose and meaning, then that's a good thing. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:28.719 So if a grift has led to something good, then maybe I can sort of accept it. 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:35.360 Where I know the revival is happening is in gospel music, and we've got massive male artists like Forrest Frank. 00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:39.519 I've been a fan of Forrest since early services days, and it's been incredible what he's done. 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.760 He's selling out huge stadium tours. 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:46.960 I think he is building a whole scene in the US of modern gospel music. 00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:51.760 So you've got the likes of Holvey and Connor Price and Caleb Gordon, no big deal. 00:50:52.000 --> 00:51:03.840 The UK scene is obviously a lot smaller, but what impact have you seen kind of music and other forms of popular culture have on UK and US Christian young men as well? 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:09.280 Yeah, I think we are really in this exciting time where it seems to be becoming so much more mainstream. 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:22.800 You know, we see people like Forrest Frank, Josiah Queen, you know, even people like Brandon Lake and Phil Wickham and these musical worship artists who are using their messages for good. 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:33.679 And, you know, even though you know they're all worship music, we're seeing in America that a lot of other mainstream artists are now affiliating with these artists. 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:38.000 So you've got people like Jelly Roll, who obviously released a song with Randon Lake. 00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:43.519 You've got Alex Warren, he is quite publicly becoming more and more outspoken with his Christianity. 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:48.320 You've got David Kushner, all of his songs actually do have biblical meanings behind them. 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:55.840 So when Daylight went absolutely viral, that was actually, if you look at the lyrics, a lot of that is to do with religion and to do with him finding faith. 00:51:56.079 --> 00:52:00.320 So

you're seeing this sort of influence, and I think, you know, it's incredible. 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:06.960 Where I saw a video and it was at Stagecoach Festival in America, so one of the biggest festivals in America. 00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:13.119 Jelly Roll brought out Brandon Lake to perform Heartfought Hallelujah at this massive secular festival. 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:18.719 But before that, there was a prayer circle which included all of the artists. 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:26.480 You had people like Machine Gun Kelly, they were all there, they were all engaged in it, and I think there is something happening. 00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:32.639 You've got American Idol do a whole week of only worship songs as part of their competition in America. 00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:39.440 We're seeing it happen on mainstream daytime TV shows where people are coming on and performing worship songs. 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:42.719 It is so much more of a thing in America. 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.840 I think we're starting to see that seep through here. 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:51.199 I think not quite as much yet, but we are seeing artists. 00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:55.199 You've got people like Elevation Rhythm who are selling out the O2 academies. 00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:59.039 O2 Academies are promoting them quite vigorously. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:20.400 You've got, you know, big Christian festivals, big church fest that I've been going to for the past few years, which is a huge, you know, 36,000 people coming together to listen to people like Brandon Lake, like, you know, hopefully Josiah Queen soon, and these different artists that actually are, you know, bringing this thing. 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:21.679 We are seeing it mainstream. 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:38.320 We are seeing people like Forrest Frank going viral on TikTok with his songs, and his songs are going viral, and it's planting seeds in people's heads there, not realizing that they're worshiping to music, but they are, and I think that's really, you know, we're seeing the fruits of that happen. 00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:42.719 I think, yeah, bringing it into the mainstream is something that's really positive, I think. 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:46.719 And you know, whether people believe or not, it's still great music. 00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:49.440 Very quickly, let's reflect now, mate. 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.960 So, first of all, what's been your proudest achievement on this journey so far? 00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.159 Um, great question. 00:53:56.239 --> 00:54:03.360 I think my proudest achievement is speaking to young people that have been supported by what we do. 00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:12.880 I'm always proud when I can sit and a young person comes up to me and says, you know, oh, I've just had your video in my school, or I've just had a lesson, and I know that it's helping people. 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:15.440 I think 95% of what I do is online. 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:17.599 I don't see the fruits of

what I do. 00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:30.480 So actually being able to get those experiences are what makes me so proud of where we are and seeing my tiny little baby, which it seems like being so much bigger and supporting so much more people, and I'm just so proud of that. 00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:36.159 Second of all, what goals and ambitions do you have for Spark and Prism and yourself in the future, mate? 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:38.000 Because you've got a long future ahead of you. 00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:39.920 Got a long future, yeah. 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:46.320 I think for me, we we want to be, you know, the biggest youth-led mental health charity in the world. 00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:48.960 We want to bring young people everywhere. 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:54.000 We want to ensure that youth voice is really being listened to, and that's something I would always drive. 00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:58.719 So, goal-wise, that's what we're doing, that's what we're working towards, bigger partnerships. 00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:05.519 You know, we're talking to some massive charities in America right now about partnerships and really trying to take the message over to America. 00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:16.880 We're really trying to ensure that, you know, bring everybody together, bring this ecosystem of charities, individuals, young people all together and just make the conversation around mental health so much better. 00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:27.679 I think that's in everything, not just mental health, but then with Prism, ensuring that that youth voice is brought into everything, and with me personally, ensuring that young people are taken seriously and included in all conversations. 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:33.280 And third and finally, what has this journey so far taught you about yourself? 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:35.840 So much. 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.079 I think I was a very, very different person six years ago to the person I am now. 00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:42.639 I think it's definitely helped my confidence. 00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:48.079 You know, I initially, when I started, I would not be able to speak in front of thousands of people like I can now. 00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:49.360 I'm still learning. 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.920 I still am awful with social media content, trying to film myself for a video. 00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:56.480 Awful at the moment, and I'm getting there. 00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:00.639 But I think it's really taught me about what matters most to me as well. 00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:01.199 I think. 00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.760 I think it's taught me what's a priority and what should matter. 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:13.760 And that's really important to learn, especially at this age, what I need to know, what parts of me I need to look after, and that kind of things. 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:21.679 We've talked about your incredible professional journey so far, mate. 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.119 Let's dive deeper and talk about your own mental health journey. 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.719 So take me back to early life, teenagers. 00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:29.679 They weren't long ago. 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.519 And looking back, were there any early mental health experiences? 00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:36.800 If any, who's the Connor we meet here? 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.679 Yeah, I think I'll go back to primary school. 00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:43.119 And for me at primary school, I was a very anxious kid. 00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:46.159 I, you know, I didn't have huge amounts of confidence. 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.840 I was very much a very different person. 00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.199 We had a family death. 00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:53.920 It wasn't a close family relative at all. 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.239 It was very like great great grandparents who was first experienced of that. 00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:02.559 And it was sort of like I ended up going to therapy for that. 00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:04.000 And wow, okay. 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:05.119 That's quite young, bro. 00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:09.599 It was young, it was sort of like it must have been year three or year four. 00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:19.920 And it was kind of started out as sort of grief, where it was just like, you know, it was very much like play therapy, art therapy, but it was very much sort of extra in that end that first touch point of it. 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:32.320 That one brief session led to three, four years of much more in-depth looking at things like anxiety and stuff like that, which I was even at that time really struggling with and really struggling with self-confidence. 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:52.079 I think that was a time which was very, you know, trying to learn all that and struggling through primary school, trying to work out, you know, just being a primary school kid, like, oh, they've stolen my board, you're not coming to my birthday party anymore, and you know, the joys of being a primary school kid, and you think that the world's gonna end, but in reality, it very much doesn't. 00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:59.199 And yeah, yeah, we sort of moved to North Devon between primary and secondary school, and that was sort of a big shift for me. 00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:07.280 You know, ending primary school in one area, moving to secondary school in another area, and starting my first day of year seven, not knowing a single person. 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:16.000 I think that was a very much uh sort of a refresh for me of kind of in all the films where it's like, oh, you can be a new person, and it was kind of like, who do I want to be? 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:17.199 Like, what do I want to do? 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.280 And it was sort of I didn't really notice that much at the time. 00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:33.039 They sort of just sailed through secondary school, did what I did, made friends, obviously set up Spark at sort of year 10, had COVID years, and it was kind of just a secondary school

experience. 00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.440 It wasn't really anything to write home about. 00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:40.559 And then we sort of get to uh sit form and sort of things started to go downhill a bit. 00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:44.159 And the first thing was I developed anxiety-induced sickness. 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:53.519 So I was on a trip to London with school, and I remember we were in Covent Garden Market, they were giving out tasters of this really good chicken, so I had some, it was amazing. 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:54.800 So I ordered a bowl of it. 00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.599 So I was like, this is like the best chicken I've ever had in my life. 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.079 I ate one bite of it and I couldn't eat anymore. 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:01.280 And I was like, what's going on? 00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:03.199 I love food, I'm a massive foodie. 00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:04.559 What is this? 00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:11.840 So ended up getting the bins, I couldn't eat anymore, so I was feeling sick, and that proceeded to happen every day for about a year. 00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:16.559 Where every time I'd be out with friends, every time I'd go out, I'd just lose all appetite. 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:21.039 I would be absolutely fine, food would come, and I wouldn't be able to eat it. 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:25.519 And that was that first trigger of something that was like, okay, right, what's going on here? 00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:42.880 And then I developed worst cases of anxiety, depression, low mood, suicidal ideation, and all these different things that really created this complex spiral for about a year where I was sort of again back in therapy, proper counselling that I sort of hadn't experienced as sort of an adult as such. 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:55.280 And yeah, just really trying to understand what was going on, and you know, it was a very dark time at times, and it was sort of like trying to run a mental health charity while struggling yourself. 00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:04.639 But it was very much sort of I would be publicly, I'd be very, you know, like I am now, but behind closed doors, I was a lot more shut off. 01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:17.679 There's a huge separation there between the sort of private me and the public me, which was again as a 17-year-old, was really hard to manage, sort of trying to navigate the two and kind of trying to separate the two. 01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:19.760 I think I was doing a lot as well. 01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:27.119 It's important for us to say here that you have now recognized that what you went through was an eating disorder. 01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:37.199 And we discussed off air if it might have been bulimia or anorexia, but you kind of really wanted to nail down that it was this sort of unique form of anxiety induced sickness, right? 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:43.199 What I want to kind of try and find out is what do you think caused it? 01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:48.719 Now, I know that your parents split up when you were about 11, so like year six times. 01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:50.880 Maybe it was related to that, maybe it wasn't. 01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:52.480 Have you ever found out what caused it? 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:56.239 Because it sounds quite instant, but there must have been factors behind it, right? 01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:59.920 There must have been factors, and it's something that I've been exploring for years. 01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:06.320 I've been through every type of therapy, every type of counselling, doctor's appointments, everything to try and understand what this is. 01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:15.519 I've had everything from hypnotherapy to like random different types of things to try and understand what this is, and there still isn't an answer to it. 01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:19.360 We're still trying to work out exactly what that trigger was. 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.800 For me, I think it was a build-up of things. 01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:36.559 I think it was just life, and I think the way that I've come to terms with it now is that my body was overwhelmed by things, my mind was overwhelmed, and the only thing it could control was what I was eating. 01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:46.639 So while everything else around me felt like it was spiralling and out of control, the only thing my body could actually control in that moment was whether I could eat or not. 01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:51.199 And for me, that's kind of the thing that's made sense in my head is okay, right? 01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:55.920 This is my body's reaction to everything else being completely out of control. 01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.280 Because, you know, me as a person, I like to be in control of things. 01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:02.559 I like to know when things are happening, what's happening when. 01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:16.639 And I think that was a time where, you know, you're 17, you're out with your friends a lot, you 18, you go out drinking, you kind of have those couple years where you're like out every day with my friends, we were going out pubs, we were going and doing things. 01:02:16.880 --> 01:02:24.960 I think it was a time where I was like, okay, this is where I'm trying to sort of grow as an adult, but struggling with that. 01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:30.880 And I think there was a lot of different factors, and unfortunately, I've still not found that cast list, which made it click. 01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:34.320 And hopefully, one year in deep therapy, I'll find the answer to it. 01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:36.320 But unfortunately, we're not there yet. 01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:44.719 Something that made me laugh in our chat off uh the kind of naivete of youth, mate, is uh when you said I was the peak of my career but internally struggling. 01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:46.400 Your peak's definitely still to come, brother. 01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:47.360 You're 20 years old. 01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:48.719 Come on, be real. 01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:53.519 I know you're like

comparative is only primary school, but don't worry, your peak is definitely to come, mate. 01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:54.800 Don't worry about that. 01:02:55.199 --> 01:03:03.199 When you got a handle on it, when did you first recognise that oh, this is actually quite a big problem and I need to sort this out? 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:07.039 I think it was a good few months after. 01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:12.639 I think I was really, really struggling for a few months with it, but I wasn't accepting it. 01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:17.920 I was kind of thinking, oh, well, maybe I'm just eating something wrong, maybe I'm just, you know, this, this, this. 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:22.559 And it was only a few months after it was becoming a almost daily thing. 01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:27.039 And my friends around me were starting to realise that actually, okay, why is he not eating? 01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:30.639 You know, why is he going to the toilet every time we're all eating, and things like that? 01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:53.440 It was only then that it was sort of like, okay, right, I need to work out what this is, and that's sort of when I was sort of again in that height of my career, as you just said, and that was when like I was, you know, I was I was regularly doing podcasts, I was regularly doing media interviews, I was regularly doing things like that, and I was talking about stuff, but I wasn't talking about my own mental health, and that was two very separate things. 01:03:53.679 --> 01:04:00.159 And I think it was only after then again a trigger was a family member dying, and I started therapy again. 01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:03.039 I didn't think I was bad enough to go to therapy. 01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:05.440 I thought, oh, this is just my unique quirk. 01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:08.639 I'm just gonna leave it and I'm just gonna move on with life. 01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:15.519 And it was only after a family member died that I've then started therapy again, and they were like, Why have you not been coming for therapy for so long? 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:16.480 You definitely need it. 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:18.079 And I was like, thanks for that. 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:34.800 But it was after then doing that and sort of again sort of unpicking different parts of life and like really understanding how my brain works and how all that stuff that I then actually realized, okay, this is something I do need to explore more, and something I was sort of taken on more seriously. 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:37.920 You spoke there about shame, right? 01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:47.360 And all of these behaviours you felt shame about and were then being projected onto your friends because they were worrying about you, and then that would sort of create this cycle, right? 01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:54.239 So you're masking, you're keeping these behaviors secret, you're acting like everything is fine, but you're starving yourself at the end of the day. 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:58.719 How did

being a man play a role here? 01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:05.280 Did you ever think, oh, an eating disorder is only something girls get or something else? 01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:22.079 I think it was more just there was an internalized shame where actually I knew that most of my friends around me would be supportive, but I didn't feel for me, it was a lot about the public image of actually how could I run a mental health charity while equally in a deep hole myself. 01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:23.760 Like those two things don't add up. 01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:27.360 Clearly, I'm not I'm obviously not doing something right then. 01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:31.199 If I can't help myself, then how can I help other people and things like that? 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:41.039 And it was that kind of image of that, and equally, you know, I was really fortunate where at you know, I had some really close friends that were really open about things and you know had some really good conversations. 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:47.920 There were a few people in my life that were still had that outdated view and still did think, well, actually, you know, boys shouldn't talk. 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:58.239 And you know, I had close friends around me that were like, Oh, just grow up, just eat, just get over it kind of stuff, which again doesn't help when you're in that mindset and it's like really struggling with that. 01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.760 But you know, my best friend, I don't know. 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:12.800 How he's still friends with me now after the stuff I put him through those years of being the only person that would see the the true me at those times while I was masking to everybody else, and then we'd get in his car and the switch would flip and it'd be completely different. 01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:18.159 It was important, and the only reason I got through it was with his help, and that's really important. 01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:29.119 But yeah, I did have people around me that did help, and he was a big help for that to sort of be able to sort of take that mask off at times and be able to sort of show the true colours and get through that. 01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:36.159 And still, when I have lips now, he's he's still there supporting me, which is important and useful to have. 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:39.519 Well, that brings me nicely on to recovery. 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:43.679 So when did you feel hope for the first time? 01:06:44.239 --> 01:06:47.039 I think it was after finishing sitform. 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:51.280 So for me, the last year of sit form, I don't really remember that much. 01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:54.320 It was a time that I've tried to get out my memories. 01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:57.119 I think it's a time that I tried to forget about. 01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.079 I was, you know, not really going in that much. 01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:02.400 I was trying to avoid it wherever possible. 01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:06.400 I was avoiding friendships, I was avoiding a lot of stuff and I lost a lot of people. 01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:09.280 Friendships because of where I was at that time. 01:07:09.519 --> 01:07:14.000 Because you know, I wasn't sometimes a nice person to be around, so I did lose a lot of friendships. 01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:20.239 And I think it was only after getting out of that system that I finally started to make that recovery. 01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:46.960 And I think a lot of the time as well, because we were teenagers, there was a lot going on, and sort of school drama and this, this, and this, and then you'd go in and you'd get sucked into this sort of toxic atmosphere where it's like so-and-so's just broken up with so-and-so, and and it was this sort of very toxic space, which then, if you're in a bad mindset, you then get sucked into it, and then you end up being a not very nice person because you just want to get that anger out, and then lose friendships and stuff. 01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:54.559 And it was very much getting out of that and sort of realizing, look, I left sit form not knowing what I was gonna do with the rest of my life. 01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.679 I was kind of like, okay, I've left, I've got a university place. 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:08.239 If I want to go to university, I could go get a job, I could continue Spark, and I decided to continue Spark for a bit, and then decided actually, this isn't for me. 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:18.880 I love Spark, but equally, I'm a social person, I don't want to sit in my bedroom working every day by myself for the rest of my life because that's not a healthy thing to do, especially at this age. 01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:22.319 I want to go, I want to make new friends, I want to go have experiences. 01:08:22.479 --> 01:08:36.720 So, you know, I went and worked on a holiday park for a few months and you know, lived that life, and then went and did a marketing job in a corporate for nine months, and really trying to just that recovery was going out, living life, and just being a bit more of an adult. 01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:38.640 Um, there were ups and downs. 01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:43.600 You know, I live in North Devon, I love North Devon, but it's a very rural area for young people. 01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:47.840 There's not a lot going on out of season, winter, it's like nothing to do. 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:55.600 So when all your friends go off to university or go off and people start moving off, it then became a very isolating place. 01:08:56.079 --> 01:09:01.520 So that recovery period was starting while I was in that sort of gap year. 01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:08.239 And then the week before university started, after my gap year, I decided I was going to apply for university and go. 01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:14.560 So I had a week's period between deciding I was gonna go and getting a place, getting accommodation and moving. 01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:32.960 So it was very last minute, but you know, very fortunate that I did do

that because that's really helped me to get out of North Dev and move to the city and sort of move on that stage of recovery where I'm actually meeting new people, doing new stuff, and getting myself more out there, which I think's really supported me. 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:36.720 Let's reflect on your mental health journey now, mate. 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:39.039 So, similar question as the first topic. 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:42.800 What has this mental health journey taught you about yourself? 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:48.800 I think it's taught me, I don't think I knew myself before any of this happened. 01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:52.720 I think it's taught me how my life works. 01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:58.960 I've learned that I've got scaffolds, so every pillar of my life is on scaffolding. 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:03.840 And if one scaffold comes down, all the others typically will come down in some level. 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:09.840 So if something goes on with friendships, typically that's then gonna bring everything else down to some level. 01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:19.920 I think that's really allowed me to understand different things and different topics of my life and actually catch myself a bit easier before I fall too much. 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:26.159 I think that's really helped me to yeah, just stop myself from going down too much of a spiral. 01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:47.920 And as a final question, if you could go back and talk to the eight-year-old Connor who was struggling with his anxiety, the 16-year-old Connor or 17-year-old Connor in the depths of that ED, or the Connor who was about to start his application for XT University, what would you say to him, knowing what you do now, if anything at all, mate? 01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.359 Oh, good question. 01:10:49.600 --> 01:11:00.159 I think for six-year-old Connor, it would be like there's so much more ahead of you, and the sky's the limit, so don't feel like you can't do stuff. 01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:05.760 I think, you know, six I was like, oh, I you you grow up, you do a job, that's kind of it. 01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:09.119 You know, I never in a million years would have imagined I'd be where I am today. 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:13.920 Keep working and do stuff and six, have fun, like life's short in many ways. 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:20.399 Like, go and enjoy yourself and actually have fun and don't worry yourself too much, which is easier said than done with a kid with anxiety. 01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:34.640 But I think you know, 16-year-old me, I'd be like, there's hope in the future, you know, things do get better, and like the people around you do care about you, and I think that's something that can be hard to know during the deeps of it. 01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:37.680 But actually, there are people around you that do care and do look out for you. 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:39.119 I think that's important. 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:44.960 And yeah, the guy just before going to Wetster would be like, take the risk, you know, live the life. 01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:51.439 I think that's something that I was maybe even last year, I wasn't that good at is living the uni life. 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:59.600 And I think this year I'll very much be living the uni life because I was sort of very much so focused on work and so focused on let's just keep building the charity. 01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:04.560 Whereas now I'm like, I've got to a stage where I want to be, but equally, you're only 21. 01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:10.960 So you need to go and enjoy your uni life, go out, go clubbing, go do the fun stuff because you'll never get it again, mate. 01:12:11.119 --> 01:12:12.880 Be present for every moment. 01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:13.600 Exactly. 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:18.560 And that's I think that's my biggest advice to my university self is just be present, be in the moment. 01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:20.399 You know, you've got your phone with you all the time. 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:23.840 And my friends set me off all the time for always being on my phone. 01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:34.800 There's always, especially when you're you know building stuff yourself and things, you almost have this expectation that you constantly have to be active, you constantly have to be responding to WhatsApps or Slack messages or emails or stuff. 01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:39.680 I had one example, um, Sky News contacted me Christmas Eve saying, Can you come on? 01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:52.000 I didn't respond within 10 minutes, and it was too late to go on Sky News because I didn't respond within 10 minutes on Christmas Eve, and that stuck with me for like the last few years in my head where I was like, I need to constantly respond to everything. 01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:55.199 Whereas I'm a bit more now since like in the past couple months. 01:12:55.279 --> 01:12:58.560 I mean, like, just live in the moment, like things come and go. 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:05.600 I missed out on coffee with the Prime Minister, and that's kind of been my catalyst of like just whatever happens, happens. 01:13:05.680 --> 01:13:07.279 Just deal with it and do it. 01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:17.039 Our final topic of conversation, Con, and it's one I try and have with all of my special guests if we have time. 01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:21.359 It is a general natter, quick fire, lightning round chat about our mental health. 01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:25.199 So, firstly, mate, how is your mental health out of 10? 01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:31.039 Out of 10, I would say it's probably like a seven at the moment, I think. 01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:33.199 I think I'm very much needing a break. 01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:38.319 I need a holiday, I need something to just I've been in it for a while now. 01:13:38.479 --> 01:13:43.600 I'm like, I need something to just look forward to, go away and have a bit of a reset. 01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:45.840 I think that's the position I'm in right now. 01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:53.920

What age were you when you became self-aware of your mental health and you realised that the feelings you were having weren't physical and they were actually in your mind? 01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:55.199 That's interesting. 01:13:55.439 --> 01:14:05.920 I would say probably when I started them in 12 and master programme, so what, 13 was kind of when I really learnt about it and learned actually, you know, these are emotional things. 01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:14.159 You know, you're taught emotions as kids, but you don't necessarily understand any more than happiness, sadness, that kind of stuff. 01:14:14.479 --> 01:14:21.199 Can you remember the first or the most important conversation you've ever had with someone about your mental health? 01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:23.439 So if you can remember, who is it with? 01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:27.119 What did you say, and how do you look back on it? 01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:37.920 Um, I would say the most important conversation, probably the last one I had with my counsellor at school. 01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:43.840 Unfortunately, by the time I'd actually started counselling therapy, I was coming to the end of school. 01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:50.159 So I actually halfway through my sessions, I then left school and could no longer do them, which was an absolute pain. 01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:56.079 But it was, you know, an important topic where we really spoke about everything that we'd been through. 01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:58.399 And you know, she gave me advice for the future. 01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:00.479 I think that's something that does stick with me. 01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:10.319 And yeah, kind of that relationship that you do build over time, which is a very unique relationship that you don't really get anywhere else where they pretend they don't know you anywhere other than the room you're in. 01:15:10.479 --> 01:15:16.159 Um it's a unique one, but yeah, I think that was a great conversation, and I think it was for me. 01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:24.319 I made sure that they didn't know anything about me because I think I go in with a preconception, they know about Spark and they know about everything that happens. 01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:40.960 And for me, it was very good that she specifically didn't do any research on that, and that actually she came from a very unbiased and different point of view, which you don't get often because every time you meet people, they just say, Oh, you know, you've done this, you've done this, amazing, amazing, which is great, but not in a therapy session. 01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:46.560 So I think that yeah, that conversation that I had with her was definitely the most important one that stuck out to me. 01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:50.319 What things do you find in life that trigger your mental health? 01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:59.279 So it could be things people say to you, sounds, tastes, smells, sensations, or have you not figured all of them out yet, or have any at all? 01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:01.680 Um, I've definitely not figured them all out yet. 01:16:01.760 --> 01:16:04.720 I don't think I ever will figure them all out, the triggers. 01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:10.640 I think for me, it's very much I think friendships are a big trigger for me. 01:16:10.880 --> 01:16:23.680 The ups and downs of friendships, and sometimes that can be positive, that can trigger it very positively or very negatively, and I think that really depends on what argument I'm in with my best mates and who's winning the arguments. 01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:25.359 Such is life, mate. 01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:30.239 There's a very famous quote that says, A man who has no enemies is no man at all. 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:33.199 Just for you as a people pleaser, just to think about it. 01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:34.319 Yeah. 01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:40.800 What conversely positive tools and methods do you use to improve your mental health or help you feel better? 01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:44.560 Which ones have worked and which ones have you tried but haven't? 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:47.600 Yeah, so for me, uh self-care. 01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:56.399 I do a lot of self-care, looking after myself, ensuring I take priority of like I try and go for a walk every single day, I try and get out and just fresh air. 01:16:56.640 --> 01:17:08.000 I've started using an app which is sort of a you sort of talk into it and it transcribes what you're saying and sort of summarizes the rant that you give it. 01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:39.279 And I think that's been really useful for me to be able to every day just kind of rant into it for five minutes about how I feel, and then it puts it into words that can then sort of it forms a bit of a chart of ups and downs of life and stuff, and I think that's been really powerful for me to be able to, you know, one of the best things is ranting, and a lot of the time that can support your mental health and make you digest how your day's been, and I think that's a really useful tool I've been using, and yeah, just generally trying to go out with people and try and go out with friends and equally, you know, take days off. 01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:53.119 I try and always take a Sunday off and just not do anything and just you know, go to church, go be your friends, go and just do stuff and not be in that sort of work mode and just try and ignore my phone and try and just be in the moment. 01:17:53.199 --> 01:18:00.239 And I think those things have helped me to become much more positive and much more mentally stable. 01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:04.159 I think I know the answer to this next question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. 01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:09.840 What is the best book, or as I call it, mental health Bible you've read for your mental health? 01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:11.039 That's a good one. 01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:23.119 I mean, from the Christian perspective, Bible, I think that for me is I think you know, there's so much useful stuff in there as a

Christian, but equally, you know, it's a good way of just reading. 01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:32.720 I think aside from that, I would say the best book is oh, good question. 01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:33.680 I'm trying to think now. 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:35.199 I've read some great books. 01:18:35.279 --> 01:18:38.800 I think obviously Anxious Generation is a good book, Jonathan Hyde. 01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:40.880 I think that really has its flaws, but yeah. 01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:47.039 Yeah, that has its flaws, but it is a very eye-opening exposure to what it's like. 01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:57.840 Yeah, I think I would say that one, which I guess is more of a traditional answer and sort of one that probably most people would come with, but I'd say I'm not really much of a reader, to be completely honest with you. 01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.159 So I don't read many books. 01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:03.039 Stop living up to the Gen Z stereotype, mate. 01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:03.840 I know, I'm sorry. 01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:05.760 Make it into a film, then I'll watch it. 01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:09.680 But but a three-hour live stream, yeah, then you'll watch it. 01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:10.159 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:17.039 How about a bunch of one-minute TikToks, part one, part two, part three, with subway surfers and half the screen, then I'll watch it. 01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:17.760 Easy. 01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:20.560 I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer. 01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:27.840 If there was a mantra or Bible verse that summed up your mental health, what would it be and why? 01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:37.199 Um, oh, I would say, I mean, my Bible verse that I always took with is Philippians four sits, be anxious for nothing. 01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:42.399 I think that's a really one that sits out for me of kind of like being a very anxious person. 01:19:42.479 --> 01:19:51.760 It's like it's not solving my anxiety, but there is that kind of stability in it, and it sort of goes on to you know, cast all your anxieties upon the Lord and that kind of thing. 01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:54.560 And for me, that's something that's really supported my mental health. 01:19:54.720 --> 01:20:06.960 Equally mantra, though, it's like yeah, it's very cliche, and sometimes it doesn't work, but it's okay not to be okay, and that kind of very, you know, cliche, and I don't like it sometimes, but it does kind of work as well. 01:20:07.119 --> 01:20:10.720 Of actually, it's okay to cry, that's a human emotion. 01:20:10.880 --> 01:20:11.760 Everybody does. 01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:17.199 That's fine as long as it isn't a repeated thing, but that that's when you need to start seeking professional support. 01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:19.119 But that's a mantra as well. 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:23.520 Yeah, it's uh like I said earlier, it has its flaws, that phrase, doesn't it? 01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:24.560 Yes, it sure does. 01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:25.840 It's very overused. 01:20:26.319 --> 01:20:26.880 Yes. 01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:30.319 The two Bible verses, I really am interested in those. 01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:36.960 Is one of them a grounding technique, and is one of them a way of you relinquishing control and giving it to God, basically? 01:20:37.199 --> 01:20:45.520 Yeah, I think it's very much that kind of yeah, giving it to God and being able to kind of have that, you know. 01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:54.319 For me, my mental health has been supported by religion and by faith and by community and the Bible and things like that, and that bringing it to God. 01:20:54.399 --> 01:21:02.000 And, you know, it's been scientifically proven, religious or not, prayer does support people with their mental health because it is that is talking. 01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:08.000 It's as I just said about me ranting to an app, it is that rant, it is that processing your emotions. 01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:21.279 So bringing it to God is prayer, it's talking your emotions, and that's such an important thing for all of us to do, religious or not, is just talking our emotions to somebody to an app. 01:21:21.600 --> 01:21:32.239 Unfortunately, people are using Chat GPT at the moment, but there's all these different ways to just express your emotions, and I think that really supports people with their mental health. 01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:34.800 What do you love about yourself? 01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:37.840 What do I love about myself? 01:21:38.479 --> 01:21:40.159 I would say my ambition. 01:21:40.319 --> 01:21:43.039 I think that's something I both love and hate about myself. 01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:52.800 At the moment, I'm gonna go love because I think it's got me to the rooms I'm in today, it's got me into the position I'm in today, and it keeps me driven and it keeps me something working towards. 01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:56.399 I think anybody that knows me knows I'm an incredibly ambitious person. 01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.239 If I have a goal, I will achieve it. 01:21:58.319 --> 01:22:00.800 There's nothing to stop me from achieving those goals. 01:22:01.039 --> 01:22:07.039 My trustees hate me for that because every trustee meeting we have, they're like, what are you on about today? 01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:13.680 Like, I swear last time you said this, and it's like, here's the new partnership, here's the new charity lead, here's the new everything. 01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:17.680 And I think they love it deep down, but yeah, I think for me that's what I love. 01:22:17.760 --> 01:22:22.640 I love my ambition, and I think that's what sets me apart from a lot of other Gen Z as well. 01:22:22.960 --> 01:22:26.399 And as a final question, brother, you can answer it any way you want. 01:22:26.560 --> 01:22:43.920 What more do you think we have to do to ensure men from all ages, all backgrounds, all walks of life feel comfortable and safe in opening up about their mental health issues or just their general mental health, if most importantly,

they want to do it? 01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:45.760 Yes, that's the important part. 01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:46.960 If they want to do it. 01:22:47.119 --> 01:22:50.720 And I think you know, we can't pressure everybody because not everybody wants to talk. 01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:53.840 I think it's about changing the societal conversations. 01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:56.079 I think that starts off with the media. 01:22:56.319 --> 01:23:19.199 That starts off with working with organizations to bring in these healthier influencers, uh, these healthier people like Ben West, like Sid Batti, who are really changing what it means to be masculine on social media and bringing them into the mainstream media, allowing them to do documentaries and things like that, which really then change the societal system. 01:23:19.279 --> 01:23:22.319 Because whether we like it or not, that's where a lot of our opinions come from. 01:23:22.399 --> 01:23:28.640 It does come from things like the BBC, ITV, things we watch on, you know, the national conversations. 01:23:28.800 --> 01:23:31.279 Everybody talked about the traitors when the traitors is on. 01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:33.920 It's something that unites us, unfortunately, the TV. 01:23:34.079 --> 01:24:07.439 So if we want to change those conversations, we need to start top down, work with the media, change those conversations, change those attitudes, change them using these attention-seeking headlines that are trying to cause outrage to sell more papers and instead actually think about the mental health and the emotions of these people and try and not use that to sell headlines, but instead to support people and create initiatives that allow young people and people of all ages to open up like their mental health and have strategies to be able to do that. 01:24:07.680 --> 01:24:11.760 I think that's the first step we need to take to changing the world. 01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:13.840 And change the world, you will, mate. 01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:17.039 Connor, you are an incredibly inspirational person. 01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:19.680 I think you're gonna go a very, very long way, brother. 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:26.079 I was doing fuck all at 20, apart from a university degree, and you've already done a whole charity and consultancy. 01:24:26.239 --> 01:24:27.840 So the world is your oyster. 01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:31.439 I hope you go on to achieve amazing things, and you definitely will. 01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:35.279 Thank you so much for coming on the Just Checking In Pod and talking to me, mate. 01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:36.640 Thank you so much for having me. 01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:44.720 Well, that's all we've got time for in this episode of the Just Checking In Pod. 01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:50.159 A big thank you to Connor for being my special guest and for letting me check in with him. 01:24:50.319 --> 01:24:59.279 I'll put some links to where you can find out more about Spark UK, We Are Prism, and follow them both on social media in the show notes. 01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:02.960 As always, thank you to all the vendors who've checked in on this episode. 01:25:03.119 --> 01:25:11.600 Remember, if you've liked what you've heard, give it a share on social media, tag us at VentsHelp UK, tell your friends, family, or work colleagues about us. 01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:21.520 If you're feeling generous, please do write us a review and give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts through the app or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:29.760 If you want to support us further, you can go to patreon.com slash vent helpuk or one word or make a one-off donation to our PayPal. 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:32.239 Both of those links are also on our link tree. 01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:36.479 That's linktr.ee slash vent helpuk. 01:25:37.359 --> 01:25:39.920 We hope to check in with you again very soon. 01:25:40.159 --> 01:26:04.399 And remember guys, it is always okay to vent, and it's not just a few, and it's not just the best, and it's not a few, and it's not a few, and it's not a few, and it's not a few, and it's not just a lot of time.