Fullständig transkription av Captive Conversations by Helio Risk • Season 1, Episode 1

their goals. 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:33.120 And I think that's the biggest, whether it's related to specifically captives or just in general, that's our approach for individuals. 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.800 So it's really leading with trying to understand what they are accomplishing. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.680 And not everybody, this isn't a solution that necessarily fits for everybody. 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:54.480 So it's in my opinion, really trying to find the ones that are trying to generate something from this expense and create an asset. 00:05:54.480 --> 00:06:03.759 And once most business owners understand that, they are very intrigued by it and they're very curious to learn more. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:09.600 And so then it's a big education lift sometimes for some of these owners. 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:15.040 But I do think that it's very important for them to fully understand it. 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:29.439 But so many of them love to have this growing um asset on their balance sheet and to transfer something that was an expense into a growing asset and a revenue stream. 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:35.759 It's it's it's in your own words, Kyle, the pathway to joy for a lot of these folks. 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:42.480 And it doesn't take a lot of um education for them to really buy into the concept. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:48.399 Well, and I think what you mentioned a really important point, and and that is like who's a really a candidate for captive. 00:06:48.399 --> 00:07:31.439 And for people who are not as experienced in the captives, and this is kind of a new discovery process for them, there's really very various types of captive structures that can make sense for for a business, uh, depending on the size, being on obviously the number one factor that determines whether someone's a candidate for captive is over overwhelmingly the the total amount of premium spend that uh because it you you know, with what the startup costs for a captive aren't are really shockingly uh inexpensive uh you know uh to most people when they understand what the feasibility study costs, you know, for your captive managers to get with actuaries and and uh and and all that, and then to get them build out and then the ongoing management fee. 00:07:31.439 --> 00:08:01.439 So the goal, when I talk about Path to Joy, what I'm talking about is we want there to be enough insurance spend that we're taking from the commercial market to into the captive that will allow Maddie and her team to work with uh the captive to come up with the investment policy statements, which is part of everything that has to be filed, which sets forth the allocations of how much is in you know, cash and cash equivalents and debt instruments and equities, uh, and builds in margins for that and everything. 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:11.360 But ultimately, the the the secret sauce is well, can I quickly have my investment earnings overcome the operating expenses of the captain? 00:08:11.360

--> 00:08:19.120 And if you don't have enough insurance spend, you better be really unpatient and understanding as a business owner, this may take a while. 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:30.399 You know, if if with the with very little bit, but you know, 100,000, 200,000, $300,000, it's gonna take you a while to have that, the surplus of that based on what your loss runs are to overcome with your investment earnings. 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:34.480 And so the more it doesn't mean that the more money you have, the all of a sudden makes you a great captive. 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:38.000 Because then the second part kicks in, which is you know, what are your what's your loss runs? 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:48.080 And if you're somebody who has you know tremendous loss runs, that that may make you a poor candidate for a captive because you're gonna have to put a tremendous amount of capitalization behind that uh for larger risks. 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:49.759 How do you figure out? 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:54.080 I know you talked about like you do with any of them, figure out their their risk profile. 00:08:54.080 --> 00:09:01.679 And uh, you know, what what types of investments do you do you find those people uh most comfortable with when you're making the plan with them? 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:41.919 Yeah, so outside of you know the 10% cash, um, we're really able to typically play with you know anywhere up to an 80-20 model, even a 90-10, if you know it, but it really is just person to person trying to figure out, but whether that's you know, with ETF models or specific models that we gain access through through New Edge, who is our back office, um, we're able to essentially customize however the client wants it to be held. 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:51.039 So whether it's specific individual stocks um as a core and then really building around that to increase their diversification. 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:55.519 And and another thing to mention for us is we are fiduciaries as well. 00:09:55.519 --> 00:10:06.320 So um not only on the individual side, but for the captive side, um as fiduciaries acting in the best interest of our client, no matter the situation. 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:24.320 So talk about uh you know, I'm very familiar with New Edge and uh tell them talk about how how you guys relate to New Edge and So we work New Edge Advisors is essentially our back office, um, and they are based out of um Louisiana, New Orleans. 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:45.360 And this is a group of advisors, and historically we came from a very large um and um a large institutional insurance carrier, and that's as our background in our specific firm, Jacobs Coolidge, um that was our upbringing. 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:56.960 However, we've seen and moved over to expand the investment capabilities, and with that, new edge also offers us access to new edge wealth. 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:22.240 Um, and new edge wealth allows us to work with ultra-high net worth individuals, um, and that's really just allowed us to just completely maximize our offerings, um, whether it's with private equity or really interesting alternatives that we can offer, whether that be in captives or with individuals as well. 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.360 Um, but we've really enjoyed moving over there. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:30.159 It's been almost three years, and it's just been transformational for our firm. 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:42.399 And it's a network of advisors, and we are able to connect with advisors all over the country and be able to introduce them to this concept as well. 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:58.080 So the the the next thing I wanted to get into was uh the you talk about the types of investment classes, uh, and you know, are you able to tailor, let's say you have somebody just super conservative and guy worked really hard for this money, and I don't want to put it at risk. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:07.039 And maybe based on their age or where they are in uh in their the lifecycle of their business, they may think they're five years from an exit, but they really want to gain some control over the commercial market. 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:21.360 They're not thinking of their captive as something that they that they want to really worry about a revenue stream as they as they get to a point with the baby boomers, you know, we're about to have the largest transfer of wealth uh in the history of the world uh over the next 20 years. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.000 And so a lot of people are considering selling their business. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:29.200 So what do you what do you do in those situations when somebody comes in and they they're they were like, hey, pump the brakes. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:35.360 I'm not I'm not looking to create an engine here, I'm looking to create, you know, just a holding uh holding place. 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:48.080 Yeah, and I have to, I'll take it a step back one step back further, because we do a lot of financial plans, just fee-based financial plans for business owner clients. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:13:01.120 And those are very telling because what we find more often than not is 90% around 90% of these clients' net worth is wrapped up in their business. 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:08.639 Many times they are the ones that grew the business, um, whether they're first generation, second generation business owners. 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:15.360 So that is their approach, really, from uh even just their business aspect. 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:24.559 And we have to um educate them on the risk that's consolidated just in one asset class being their business. 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:38.080 They like to have that control over um the assets and they just pump money back into the business because they can see it, that they can, you know, it's what they control on a day-to-day basis in their operation. 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:50.799 So diving in a little bit deeper with the captive approach is it really is just an education and

it's talking about diversification outside of their business. 00:13:50.799 --> 00:14:08.799 And the captive really allows them to do that because of these diversified offerings, um, which sometimes it's a necessity that they really need to incorporate investments outside of their bread and butter, you know, what they do all day, every day. 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.720 Um, and it it really is a necessary step for them. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:19.519 That being said, I always tell people we don't want to push you outside of your comfort zone. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.519 We want to educate you on the options. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:44.320 Yes and no can both be the right answer as long as you are fully educated on both sides and you can pick um, you know, having seen both of the options, but we do have that conversation and many times an education um for the business owner clients to incorporate additional investment options just outside of their one singular business. 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:45.279 Good. 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.480 That's uh that's I find that really interesting. 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:59.759 And and why what is it, what does you think about captives makes it such a uh a compelling case for ultra high net worth individuals and like family offices or private equity firms. 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:00.720 What do you see? 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:07.679 What do you see there as the big value add, other than just you know the commercial market, you know, taking all your money? 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.720 I think that that definitely gets people interested. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.039 That's kind of the the original hook. 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:23.039 But I just think you know, you can have the discipline of okay, now this is my risk that I'm paying for. 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:32.399 It allows them to have control over their business, and um, you're no longer paying for other people's risk that's generated. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:40.399 So we always like to say that risk is a commodity that is generated throughout the operation every single day. 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:42.080 And whether you want to or not. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:44.799 Yes. 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:57.600 And um, so this really allows them to have the opportunity not only to retain the funds, but then reduce the cost by really being able to control that risk. 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.320 So I think that's a really big piece of it. 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:23.200 Um, I think the flexibility around it as well, and just being able to, with those retained assets, having a choice of, okay, I can do essentially whatever you want with these as long as it is prudent and it abides by the IPS, but it really gives people a lot more control um of an asset that is their own. 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:32.320 Yeah, I think that there's uh there's also sometimes, and I don't want people who who may be newer to the captive kind of discussion, to think that it's all or nothing. 00:16:32.320

--> 00:16:42.000 You know, it's I'm either in the commercial market or I'm in a captive, and it's that it's the commercial market exists for most captives and it still in a very viable method. 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:47.840 For instance, if you have you know $100 million in real estate, you're probably not gonna put 100% of that in the captive. 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.639 That wouldn't make a lot of financial sense to do that. 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.320 But you can use the captive captive to leverage the commercial markets. 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:58.799 You can do a deductible, high deductible, you know, raise your deductible, then put the deductible on the captive. 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:04.480 There's you can take the captive can participate anywhere in the tower that any other insurance carrier could. 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:15.839 So uh what we do at at Helio and other captive managers do this as well, is they they find the place within the tower, the stacks of various uh insurance. 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:17.279 It could just be one carrier. 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:24.960 Uh but it all allows the the cat the business the flexibility, like you mentioned, to choose where they want to participate. 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:38.799 And there may be lines, cyber, for instance, uh, for some small to medium businesses, is one that they can take that risk on themselves uh fully in their captive uh you know, fleet coverage, they can do uh certain types of things with that. 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:45.920 They can do umbrellas, they can it's really limitless, you know, what you can do with a captive, but it doesn't mean you have to be crazy super aggressive with it. 00:17:45.920 --> 00:18:02.799 You know, you can be you can you can dip your toe in the water with captives and start with some some low-hanging fruits and raising some deductibles on property, put cyber, you know, business interruption differences in coverage, which is a type of policy we really write put a lot of in our captives uh captive programs. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:10.880 And that's where you essentially gain the ability to not have to worry about commercial markets denying your based on exclusions. 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:17.519 It essentially de-risks the business from getting excluded from things it's paying for in the commercial market, but it's subject to an exclusion in the policy. 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:25.839 So it's very simple differences in coverage, and uh and and you and you're the judge, jury, and executioner as a business owner because it's your claims. 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:50.079 And as long as you're you're you have you meet the pillars of captive insurance, which is risk transfer, that you're at it's a legitimate risk that you're transferring from the business to the captive, and then you have sufficient risk distribution, meaning whether you're gonna use the commercial market, uh, you know, you're gonna use uh reinsurance or excess coverages there, uh, or your own capitalization, that's what uh that's what it's all about. 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.400 That's what you know is uh that's how we're able to tailor these types of programs. 00:18:54.400 --> 00:19:00.480 And you talked about, you know, uh a bespoke solution where you know you're making a custom suit, not buying off the rack. 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.079 That's what we do at Helium. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:13.440 So how other uh I want to talk about like the various industry sectors that you see represented in in your the portfolio of captive that you manage. 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.279 Is it is it tell us talk about the diversity that you see in your own book? 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:24.880 Yeah, so we see anything from a large medical practice to a developer. 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:41.279 And you know, it's so funny that uh um captives can look very different from different people, whether it's the different lines that they are um you know writing for or whether it's the different investments being held. 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:46.720 It's just they can be all different shapes and sizes and in different industries as well. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:56.000 Um, but at the end of the day, they're accomplishing the same goal, even though the goals can be different by the owners as well. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:08.400 So I think that's just something to keep in mind is uh there, I would say that the most industries I think could be considered for a captive. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:14.160 Um, and they're like I said, they can look different for different people. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:23.920 Um, but we really try to understand those goals, meet the goals through the investments and how the surplus is being managed. 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:47.920 What do you think is the number one driving factor right now in captive clients that you work with in the early stages of what is in ones that you haven't gone out and try to like sell them on captives that where they're coming to you from perhaps a captive manager or you know a referral, and they're what are you seeing as is there any consistent themes that you're seeing about what's driving them to pursue uh captives? 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:56.480 I think the increased price of insurance in the market, I think that's a really big concern for a lot of people. 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:03.200 Um, you know, for us, what we've been seeing is wonderful returns in the market the last few years. 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:14.240 We've seen some volatility um in the beginning quarter or so because of the war in Iran, but even recently we've seen all-time highs in the market. 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:29.359 So, you know, we plan accordingly and we don't we're we're planning over um decades with some of these investments, but it's um, you know, at the same time, we need to make the liquidity requirements. 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:39.759 But I think those are probably two pretty big big topics that have come up for us, primarily the

first one being the um the increase in premium cost. 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:46.240 You know, how do you view your role at the board meetings when they're talking about the investment portfolio? 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:56.079 Yeah, I would I view my role again in and out of invest in and out of captive specific investments as an educator, first and foremost. 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:06.559 I think, you know, trying to get everybody on the same Page as much as possible can sometimes be a pretty heavy lift, but we are definitely used to that. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.000 We're very hands-on. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:21.920 Um, you know, our company also helps other companies manage retirement plans, and there are all types of backgrounds with financial acumen that we deal with, whether it's HR or the CFO. 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:28.720 And I think we approach that really with the same way of trying to accomplish this goal. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:40.000 And um, you know, really guiding them hands-on and and being patient, I think is a very um under underrated quality to have. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:45.119 Um, but I think that's really the biggest thing is to lead with understanding. 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:53.039 And again, as we're going through the initial process, trying to understand the long-term goals here and then supplement with education. 00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:12.880 Um, and we love to be a part of the board meetings and make sure everybody's on the right page, um, to also really be able to answer any questions, and that's why we like to make ourselves available in times like that, so that we can be as transparent as possible throughout this process and if there's any changes that need to be made. 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:19.359 Kind of one of the things I wanted to talk to uh before we wrap up is that very thing about the success stories. 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:37.599 And one of the ones I wanted to mention for you is for a mutual client that we have, uh, that's a it's essentially a multi-generational business where it's a very successful medical practice that historically was owned by one individual, a physician, and his son has joined, and the family's very involved. 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:44.000 And this is a it's a beautiful thing to watch a transition, uh, an incredibly forward-thinking family. 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:59.200 And I just want you to talk about how how how you approach that when with your with your your partner Russell, your dad, because he's really can relate to the guy that started everything and has built this incredible business. 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:12.640 And then, but you know, there's also kids in their 30s who are just beginning their careers, uh, and you've got grandkids and you got you know people on the board who are who are uh you know not necessarily they're newer to all this. 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.680 And how do you kind of tag team and and and handle these? 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:23.359 Because I think this

is something that we are starting to see a tremendous amount of, not just in M ⁇ A work, but it's transitioning of a business to another generation. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:34.799 There's a lot of you know, young people, younger people are not as interested in in participating in a family business, but when they are, it can it can it can be a separate type of challenge or it can be a beautiful thing to watch. 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:38.960 What are you what are some of the things that you you see there that are worth mentioning? 00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:56.880 Yeah, I think I mean we deal with this so much on a regular basis with our business owner clients, and that's even how we're introduced sometimes for people is they're having a challenge with the succession planning or even mapping out from an estate planning perspective. 00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.839 What does this look like? 00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.119 What are some of the hurdles? 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:19.440 And we can really help navigate whether it's with the financial planning or even just having some conversations and asking questions that they've never been asked before, to just start brain waves in a certain you know direction or really just starting some brain waves at all when you know thinking about these big, big decisions. 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:35.519 So I think um, you know, it's primarily obviously starts with the gen one, the existing generation um that's looking to pass down transition um out from the business. 00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:41.759 And I think it's just conversations that have as much transparency as possible. 00:25:41.759 --> 00:26:06.240 And for me, it's a beautiful thing to be able to then support the passing of the torch because Russell always jokes that you know he'll have maybe 15, 10, 15, 20 years max left in the business, but I'll be around for another 35, 40 years to really be able to see this process take shape. 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:21.359 And I think to be able to have some consistent key players on both sides of that equation is a really important piece because typically it's the Gen One that really tries to map out everything as much as possible. 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:26.079 But it's the second generation that also has to be educated on what the plan is. 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:47.599 They have to have buy-in, they have to understand the wishes of the Gen 1, why that is, um, and then me really being able to step in and really facilitate that and make it happen and educate Gen 2 up to the level of Gen 1, in my understanding, being able to be in both rooms essentially. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.559 So it's a huge, huge point for a lot of families. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.400 Um, and there are so many different ways to approach it. 00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:00.559 There's so many ways that it can actually happen and take shape. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:13.279 Um and like I said, there's not necessarily a wrong answer if you know the the worst case scenario is just that there's a meltdown in communication, I would say. 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:19.599 And I think that would be a worst case scenario for both the family and business. 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:38.720 Yeah, so uh part of the part of this, you know, tsunami that's coming as far as you know uh the the transfer of of wealth from the basically the baby boomer generation to I guess it's Gen X and uh and then is it Gen Z or millennials? 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:39.680 Uh millennials. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:47.680 Um I did not no one stood stood in line to sign up to leave me any money, so I'm I'm not a part of that problem. 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.839 Uh I'm not the receiver on any of that. 00:27:49.839 --> 00:28:03.279 But uh I think that I know Maddie, you work with my own kids and and and provide, you know, like most people, you know, I you can be in an industry and they will always listen and put more credibility in something other people say, which certainly holds true in this case. 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:17.680 But uh, you know, working with younger people who are involved in uh in entrepreneurial activity, because we're seeing right now a lot of fewer people, you know, getting out of college and just getting a job and you know and joining the corporate world. 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:19.759 We're seeing a lot of we see this all the time. 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:32.960 And you and I, we prospect, you know, uh on calls here, people call into us and and it's amazing the stories where someone's 28 years old and they did they've just been entrepreneurial the whole time, they've never they've never really had a what we would call a real job. 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:34.640 You know, they've gone out and started businesses. 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.640 It could be, you know, a lawn care business. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:53.119 You know, they started with a you know a beat up pickup truck and a and a push mower, and you know, and they're now they're 28 and they've got you know $10 million of top line revenue and they've got fleet insurance that's eating them up and comp insurance, and they hear about these and they're apt to be a little bit more, you know, go a little faster. 00:28:53.119 --> 00:29:05.839 Uh what are you uh what are you seeing, like the differences in in the profile of captive owners and people seeking more information about captives compared to what you know your dad would have seen, you know, 20 years ago? 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:10.559 Yeah, I think you know, it's just an explosive opportunity. 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:29.680 And, you know, I've been at a couple of conferences and just meeting so many people from all sides of the spectrum, really in terms of education on what they know about them, um, but even hearkening back to so many different approaches from different industries. 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.000 And I just think there's so much excitement around it. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:52.400 I think it's going to be very

interesting, even in the next decade, even in the next five years, just to see the movement because I really think people love the combination of the control of their own side of things and the flexibility that they receive as well. 00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:04.799 So I just think it's a huge opportunity for some of these younger people getting started and to really grow something remarkable over the next few decades. 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:19.359 Um, it's very exciting when I see somebody like that come through or get on a call and just hear about their story and what's what's driven them to success and what gets them out of bed every day and really gets them jazzed up. 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:23.279 But those are definitely the types of people that we love to work with. 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:26.240 And what would you tell somebody who's interested? 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:44.319 You know, whether it's another, you know, uh young uh you know, financial services professional, like you're an advisor, wealth manager advisor, what would you, or whether it's somebody who's a business owner, what would you tell them about how to become educated about captives on their own, you know, as a guide to them of things they can be doing to learn more on their own? 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.240 What would you, what advice would you give? 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.359 Definitely. 00:30:47.359 --> 00:31:00.720 I would say honestly, these conferences are wonderful because there are so many different people, whether it's people interested or the service providers for captives, I think it's a and they're in great destinations. 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:09.200 So I think it's a great opportunity to really get a feel for the people that you might be working with. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:14.160 Um, and it's gonna be so much exposure in a brief period of time. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:26.880 And I think even going in to listen to what some of these people are saying, the different panels, um, going around and visiting the different stations that people have set up, I think it is a wonderful opportunity. 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.200 If, you know, that's not necessarily your priority. 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:36.799 I think reaching out to myself or Kyle is another great opportunity just to ask. 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:47.759 Um, and I know, Kyle, that you're generating a tool that would allow people to really figure out, um, speak to somebody and figure out if a captive might be good for them. 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:53.200 Um, but you know, those would be my thoughts there. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:00.079 I'm sure that there's stuff, you know, on YouTube and everything, but I just I I would say maybe take some of that with a grain of salt. 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:07.119 Um, I'm sure there's really good resources out there visiting um WRCIC, the website, and Sika. 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:15.039 Seeka's a wonderful um resource that could really allow you to do some some well-vetted research, I would say. 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:16.319 Yeah, I think so too. 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.480 And and I think people should never be intimidated to just pick up a phone and call somebody. 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:29.359 And I know that you you work with other investment advisors who don't know anything about captives, and they're like, hey, can can I work, can you work with my client on this? 00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.400 And and knowing you're not going to try to steal their client. 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.319 Oh, yeah, definitely. 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:34.799 Yeah. 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:40.640 I mean, even on just the the personal insurance too, we've established that relationship. 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:43.839 And we have wonderful, wonderful relationships. 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:46.240 We work very well with others, I have to say. 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:50.160 The sandbox is big enough for all of us to be able to play in. 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.160 And if that's not the case, then we have bigger issues on our hands. 00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:58.240 But we love working and we love learning from other advisors as well. 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.160 Yeah, and you know, and and we work with other captive managers as well. 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:08.240 So this that's the one thing that I've been I've been in and around this industry for, you know, close to 30 years. 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.759 And it it never ceases to amaze me that the collegiality uh in the industry. 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:30.880 And and uh, and I think it's because everybody's kind of the the same type are dealing with the same types of issues, whether it be you know tax regulatory issues or state regulatory issues or things that are occurring in the commercial market and how that can spill over and and and drive uh you know things in the in the captive industry. 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:34.640 My biggest piece of advice on on that would be attend a conference. 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:43.759 You know, if you have if you're a business owner or an investment advisor and you want to know, man, I'm I'm just concerned about how safe this is, call Maddie. 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:48.480 You know, call Maddie, talk to her, she or her or Russell, uh, you know, call us. 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.400 That's when we're always here as captive managers. 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.680 Of course, we want people calling us and and so we can educate them about captives. 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:59.039 But uh, I think your point about cautioning on where the source of the information is coming from is really wise counsel. 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.799 But how would how would somebody get a hold of you if they wanted to hear more? 00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:17.360 So our website is JacobsandCoolidge.com, and my email is Madeline@ JacobsandCoolidge.com, and I invite you to send me an email, say hey, if you have questions, please feel free. 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:20.239 I'm happy to follow up, schedule a call. 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:29.760 Um, and yeah, that's you can see our team um at large on that website as well, um, just to get a feel for us. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.159 So those are that's the easiest. 00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.519 And for Helio, you can reach us at HelioRisk.com. 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:44.480 Uh we also have some resources for different and we have some uh we call them flipbooks, but it's just a digital uh you know slide deck that you can look at for specific industry sectors. 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:57.519 We have healthcare, we have car dealerships, we have firearms industry, we have uh, you know, uh commercial property, we've got uh you know lots of different uh construction, things of that nature, private equity and high ultra right now with individuals. 00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:03.119 So you can go and see some information about how that captive industry focuses on your particular industry sector. 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:07.519 So with that said, I really appreciate your time, Maddie, and it's always great to talk to you. 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:22.239 I was uh it always gets me so excited because these are the type of conversations that really move the needle on businesses and families is when they gain control over a historically volatile expend and turn it into revenue. 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.239 So uh thank you for joining me, Maddie. 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.440 It's great to talk to you. 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.119 Thank you so much, Kyle. 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.360 Thank you for joining us, everybody.