UTSKRIFT 🔗
WEBVTT
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In this episode, we talk about the extent to which
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firecrackers have worsened Delhi's air pollution and what the city's
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air quality monitors are not telling us. We also talk
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about a recent terror attack in Jammu and Kashmir that
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killed three CRPF personnel in the Kulgam district. But we
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begin today by talking about the biggest news that has
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dominated the AI sector these past few days. Hi, I
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am Niharika Nanda and you are listening to 3 Things,
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the Indian Express News Show. Yesterday, NVIDIA CEO and co-founder
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Jensen Huang resigned, bringing an end to his 33-year tenure
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at the chip-making giant he built into an AI powerhouse.
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His departure comes soon after the controversy surrounding reports of
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extramarital affairs with allegations that the woman involved may have
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been working as a Chinese spy. The company has now
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launched an investigation into reports that Chinese intelligence targeted its
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chief executive through this woman, who was a former executive
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at a company called Megaspeed, a Singapore-based data centre operator
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with Chinese origins. The company has been under scrutiny by
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American authorities since 2024 over suspicions that it was helping
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China gain access to restricted AI chips. The controversy has
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raised larger questions about China's access to such technology, the
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effectiveness of US export restrictions and the risks that companies
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like NVIDIA face when their business depends so heavily on
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one single individual. So to understand how this controversy unfolded
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and what it means for NVIDIA and the wider AI industry,
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my colleague Shashank Bhargav speaks to the Indian Express's National
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Business Editor, Anil Sasi.
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Anil, let's start this conversation by talking about NVIDIA. Tell
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us just how important a player is it and what
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role does it occupy in the AI ecosystem?
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So, Shashank, NVIDIA is, you know, in some ways or
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in a lot of ways, the bedrock of this whole
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AI boom. It is essentially in some ways the, you know,
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the foundational building block, so to speak, because it is
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providing the chips that it makes.
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These are specialized chips. They're called GPUs or Graphic Processing Units.
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NVIDIA started out as a graphic processing card maker for
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video games. It just so happened that when the AI
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boom started, NVIDIA's GPUs turned out to be far better
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at being deployed on a large scale in what are
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called servers, server farms, what we otherwise refer to as cloud,
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which essentially powers the compute. To train a large language model,
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you need a lot of compute. Nvidia's GPUs turned out
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to be really apt for this. So effectively in this
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whole AI race, Nvidia is selling shovels. I mean, it's
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peddling shovels in a gold rush. We still don't know
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if any of the AI players have hit paydart because
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monetization is still, you know, there's a big question mark
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over it. But Nvidia is the one that is actually
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selling the real hardware. you know, or for which it's
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getting paid for, you know, which you can see on
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the ground where there is a queue. So in that sense,
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NVIDIA is quite indispensable to this whole AI rush.
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And of course, Jensen Huang had headed this company. Can
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you tell us what kind of role did he play
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in making this company what.
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It is now?
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So Jensen Huang is someone who started the company. He's
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been with NVIDIA through all of this. He has helped
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the company pivot towards this new source of opportunity and
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income when the whole AI race started.
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That's in the late 2016-2017, around that time.
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When it was felt that maybe you need a lot
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of compute at scale and the GPU sort of completely
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fit into that equation.
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So he is a larger.
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Than life figure, not just for NVIDIA, but also for
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the AI race in that sense, you know, alongside Sam
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Altman and, you know, the Anthropic
Load full transcript
Chief. Well, quite clearly,
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this guy is in some ways, you know, the rock
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star of sorts for the AI boom as well.
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Okay, now let's talk about this controversy. It recently came
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to light that Huang was having an extramarital affair, which
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of course would not have been a big deal. But
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the allegations are that the person he was having an
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affair with is a Chinese spy. Tell us, where do
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these allegations stem from?
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So it's part of American policy, especially after the second
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Trump administration to sort of try and curtail the sales
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of the high end NVIDIA chips to countries that are not,
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you know, either they're competing with the US or not
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exactly aligned with the, you know, the US foreign policy
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and strategic imperative. So China is one such country or
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it's been identified with the Trump administration as one such country.
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So, you know, an.
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Extramarital affair by itself would not really have caused a
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lot of consternation. It is the person who's allegedly in
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the equation here, this lady called Alice Wang, who's working
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for a Singapore-based company called Megaspeed International. It is alleged
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that this company is fronting for some Chinese end users
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of the chips.
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And that she's a Chinese national. It is also being
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alleged that.
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She was also working for the Chinese Secret Service, the
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Ministry of State Security, you know, in overt or covert manner.
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She was an ex-journalist and someone who's, I think, worked
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with HSBC earlier. And then she transitioned to this role
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in Megaspeed. She, it seems, had left Megaspeed in between,
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but she continued to sort of steer affairs at the
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helm of this company and quite clearly was aligned to
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some broad Chinese interests is what the allegation is. Given
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that Jensen Huang is in charge of a company that
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is selling products where, you know, China is one country
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where there is a certain amount of restriction, at least
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on the US side, on supplies of NVIDIA's top-end chips,
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the sort of Blackwell chips that it makes. You know,
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there's a huge conflict of interest when in light of
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all of this, it's been seen that there's a Chinese
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spy who's managed to come into his confidence. And of course,
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you know, the allegation is that she managed to influence
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his decisions in, you know, ferreting out chips, etc. to
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her company through which these were, you know, then allegedly
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sold to companies such as Alibaba.
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And you mentioned that US has a policy to restrict
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the supply of these chips to countries like China, you know, countries...
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that are competing with US in the AI race. But
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Jensen Huang had been pushing that US should be selling
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these chips to China, right?
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What was his argument?
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Now, look, to clarify, the first set of photographs where
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the two of them, Jensen Huang and Alice Huang, were
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captured together was in 2024. Just as a disclaimer, Jensen
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Huang has had this view for a long time that
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the chips ought to be sold to China. Now, his
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arguments could be professional in the sense he heads a
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company and China is the biggest customer of his high-end
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chips after the U.S., His argument, you know, through all
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of this has been that if we do not supply
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these chips.
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They will develop them on their own. It's just a
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question of time.
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If we sell it to them, we might have better
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control over this and there might not be sufficient incentive
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for them to develop it on their own.
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But more than that, I think.
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You know, the commercial interest really sort of superseded all
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of these arguments because I think he's an entrepreneur. He
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has his company, which has a unique product for which
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there is demand. And the demand is, after the US,
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the highest in a
particular geography. And he would really
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want that jurisdiction to be able to access those chips.
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So I sense that his arguments were essentially commercial. And
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it helped that he had slowly sort of started to
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become President Donald Trump's advisor on tech affairs. He started
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out as a call that it seems that President Trump had.
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Made to Wang on one of his birthdays.
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And slowly he sort of, you know, came into the
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old advisory pool and became a very influential advisor of sorts,
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something that probably was not taken too very kindly by
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the dispensation in the White House. Because if you see
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how this whole memo was leaked, it probably came out,
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you know, it was an intelligence memo that was submitted
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to the.
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White House and probably leaked out of the White House.
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So somebody in the White House had an incentive to
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leak this out. which shows the kind of distrust perhaps
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that was there internally within the administration in how close
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this person had gotten to President Trump and how, you know,
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he was perhaps influencing his decisions and how those decisions
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were in contradiction to the broader sort of, you know,
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technological and strategic goals and initiatives that the administration flagged
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at the outset.
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And Anil, do we know why the intelligence agencies started
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investigating him?
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So it was always known that people in the US
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who are dealing with China would perhaps be vulnerable to
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such tactics. It is possible that he was under the
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scanner for multiple other things, as would be a lot
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of other people who have dealings with China.
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It's possible that Elon Musk could.
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Have been under the scanner because he has a lot
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of business coming in from China. It just so happened
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that this whole affair sort of started and they would
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have probably been looking at this lady because she was
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born in
mainland China and, you know, she had some links.
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And in that sense, I'm sure the intelligence tracking would
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have happened purely because of that. And I don't know
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what precedes what in the sense the affair was discovered
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because they were tracking her or, you know, they tracked
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the affair and they got.
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Hold to her. But it does seem that he was
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under the scanner for a while.
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And Anil, do we have any proof that China got
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hold of chips by Nvidia through Megaspeed?
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Yeah, so there are a few things that happened which
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raised suspicion. It seems Megaspeed came out of nowhere around
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the time that these American restrictions kicked in.
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Mega speeds, you know, balance sheets, it suddenly.
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Ballooned from some, you know, $ 33 million at the end
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of 2023 to about $ 3 billion in a span of
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12 months. Megaspeed's biggest customer through two step-down subsidiaries. There
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was a Malaysian subsidiary and there was a Thai subsidiary.
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It seems one of the big customers was Alibaba. Alibaba
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is a private company, but all private companies in China
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have some sort of a hand of the state, so
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to speak. It could be the federal government, it could
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be the provincial government. So there is a sort of
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a loop that sort of fits in. In between, it
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seems that this lady resigned from Megaspeed, but she continued
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to be associated with Megaspeed. In fact, there is someone
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who was quoted by NYT that they still reported to her,
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even though she was technically not in charge. Alice Huang,
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according to this NYT story, had bragged about her access
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to Jensen Huang and NVIDIA. And she said that all
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that had helped her raise funds for the business. She
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said that apparently in internal conversations. So Megaspeed was essentially intermediary.
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You know, it was procuring chips and supplying it to people.
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And if you look at just the, you know, the
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fact that it doesn't pass the smell test, if the
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person who's working for an intermediary has a liaison with
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the head of the supplier, a really coveted supplier, and
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this intermediary then supplies, you know, the procured chips to Alibaba.
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And Alibaba is one of the three entities in China
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that have come out with their own large language models,
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which in some ways compete with, you know, the models
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that OpenAI and Google and Anthropic have in the market. So,
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you know, if you join the dots, clearly there is
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a problem.
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And now with this controversy, NVIDIA is said to be
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facing a key man risk, right? Can you explain to
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our listeners what that means?
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So a key man risk is essentially a term that's
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used to describe, you know, how much of a risk
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or how vulnerable a corporate entity is to a key personnel.
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That could be a founder. It could be a high
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paid employee. It could be the CEO. And that typically
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arises when, you know, there's a larger than life figure
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associated with a big entity, a strategic entity, and there's
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no succession planning in place. You know, the key man risk,
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this term really came into vogue last year when Elon
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Musk bulldozed the board and the Tesla board and the
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shareholders to OK a package for him, which is, I think,
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over a period of years, close to about $ 1 trillion
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in benefits, cumulative benefits.
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And his whole.
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Argument during that time was that I will resign if
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you don't approve it.
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You know, and so the risk of maybe paying out.
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$ 1 trillion versus having a situation where you've not paid
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out that amount, but Musk goes. In some ways, you know,
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at least the shareholders weighed it as maybe giving that
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money being better than him leaving. That is how vulnerable
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Tesla is to this one man. The same happens for
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Jensen Wang. You know, you just know this one guy.
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--> 00:13:00.990
It's a bit like Jamie Dimon in JP Morgan.
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You know, we don't know, I mean, what happens. Or
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like Mark Zuckerberg in Meta. Right.
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And ever since this matter came to light, ever since
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we got to know about these allegations, I mean, this
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has really impacted Nvidia stock. It has really tanked over
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the past few days.
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And to that extent, there could be more damage that
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could be coming in.
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And, you know, I think the most scary part is
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that this whole allegation comes at a time when AI
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valuations are under the scanner. AI stocks have been tanking
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ever since the midterm results came out and the Democrats
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came to power, you know, in the two houses, the
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Senate and the House of Representatives. So, you know, there
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is a general sense that the sort of the push
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for AI and for AI capacities such as these, you know,
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server farms, etc., would perhaps go down now that the
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Democrats have come in. The whole NVIDIA controversy comes at
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a time when the larger sort of operating environment and
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the larger feeling about AI being an investable sort of sector,
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that whole thing is under cloud. And to that extent,
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this could also have a ripple effect on the already
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sort of sliding fortunes of AI valuations.
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And Anand, could this have any repercussions for India? How
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does it affect things here? And how does it impact
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the overall AI sector?
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Look, India as jurisdiction has predominantly been outside, or it's
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been felt that India is outside of the whole AI,
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you know, investing boom that we've sort of seen unfold
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over the last two or three years. One implication for
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India could be that, you know, if this incident further
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sort of stokes the AI downside, India as an investment
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destination for foreign portfolio investors, you know, that proposition might
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become stronger. Because if big foreign investors were to pull
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--> 00:14:50.240
out of Nvidia, and there's already a pullout happening from
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across a lot of AI stocks, where will that money
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be deployed? Well, you know, there is a chance that
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money could sort of, you know, a part of that
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money could come back into India. But of course, you know,
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I think for investors, for policymakers, This is a big
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lesson in terms of how do you value a company
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or how do you keep investing in a company where
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the risks are, you know, overtly sort of shaped.
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By one larger than life personality. So it's a warning.
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It serves as a warning in terms of where to
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draw the line somewhere and realistically sort of, you know,
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see if these sort of commercial decisions are not clouded by,
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you know, any such incident.
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And that possibility is always there.
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It is a clear and present danger and it's just
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that it's come to the fore like this in the
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NVIDIA case, but it's a warning for businesses across the world.
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And next, we turn our attention to Delhi's deteriorating air quality.
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It has been more than four days since Diwali, but
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the capital is still dealing with the fallout from the
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firecrackers burst on the night of the festival. Data shows
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00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:59.669
that before Diwali, the major contributors to pollution in Delhi
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NCR were farm fires and vehicle emissions. But that changed
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00:16:04.070 --> 00:16:09.519
dramatically on Diwali night when firecrackers accounted for 71% of
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00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:14.480
the region's fine particulate pollution. And so, unsurprisingly, Delhi recorded
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00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.919
its worst air quality on Diwali Day since 2021. The
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00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:23.000
impact was felt indoors as well, with residents reporting persistent coughing,
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00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:28.350
respiratory problems and difficulty stepping outdoors. In fact, even on Wednesday,
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00:16:28.629 --> 00:16:33.330
firecrackers remained a significant source of the city's PM2. 5 pollution,
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00:16:33.789 --> 00:16:38.090
accounting for 7.4% of the total particulate load. So to
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understand how Delhi's air quality has changed in the days
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since Diwali, what can we expect in the coming days
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00:16:44.230 -->
00:16:47.049
and what steps can people take to protect themselves from
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the pollution, we speak to the Indian Express's Sophia Matthew
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00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.600
who has been tracking the issue. Sophia, can you begin
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00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.360
by telling us what was the situation like on Diwali evening?
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00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.019
As a Delhiite myself, I could hear crackers bursting till post-midnight.
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00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:07.650
So firstly, like you said, this time, even after midnight,
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00:17:07.750 --> 00:17:11.670
there were widespread firecrackers that were being burst. And this
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00:17:11.710 --> 00:17:16.890
was despite Supreme Court's order permitting green firecrackers only for
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00:17:16.970 --> 00:17:20.680
particular time slots. That is from 6 to 7 a.m.
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00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:24.099
on November 7 and 8 and also 8 to 10 p.m.
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00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:27.519
on these two particular days. Now, the police officials had
324
00:17:27.579 --> 00:17:31.029
also said that there were so many violations and they
325
00:17:31.069 --> 00:17:35.769
had tried to stop people and counsel residents on the restrictions.
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00:17:36.150 --> 00:17:40.630
According to police officials, from October 1st and November 6th,
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00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:45.799
around 15,000 kilograms of firecrackers were seized. So, already on
328
00:17:45.859 --> 00:17:49.420
the background, there were a lot of activities that were
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00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.940
going on. going on and there were no assurances that
330
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these were green firecrackers so pm 2.5 levels especially like
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if we see delhi pollution control committee's data we saw
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that in some stations it even neared 5000 micrograms per
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cubic meter Now that is huge because the national safe
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00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:16.319
limit is only 60 micrograms per cubic meter. So it
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00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:21.210
was like about 83 times this national safe limit. And
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00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:25.950
WHO limits it like 15 microgram per cubic meter of
337
00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:29.549
PM 2.5 can only be allowed in 24 hours. So
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in Delhi stations, this cross like over 330 times when
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you consider WHO limits.
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00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:39.500
And these readings, like you said, are from the Delhi
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00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.089
Pollution Control Committee. But then there is also data from
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00:18:43.250 --> 00:18:46.009
the Central Pollution Control Board or the CPCB.
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00:18:46.470 --> 00:18:47.880
So what is the difference there?
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00:18:48.849 --> 00:18:54.549
So CPCB systems, the analyzers, they do not take measurements
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00:18:54.690 --> 00:18:58.349
above 1000 microgram per cubic meter. So which is why
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00:18:58.390 --> 00:19:02.029
we see this difference that the state pollution control boards
347
00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:05.329
monitoring data is different in the sense that they also
348
00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:10.210
record above 1000 microgram per cubic meter. But the central
349
00:19:10.250 --> 00:19:14.390
pollution control board, on the other hand, after 1000 microgram
350
00:19:14.410 --> 00:19:17.210
per cubic meter, they'll show it has blank for those
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00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:22.539
hourly recordings. Also, CPCB collects all the data from the
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00:19:22.579 --> 00:19:26.819
state pollution control boards, AQI stations, and also there are
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00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:31.289
some other AQI stations set up by IATM, IMD, all
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00:19:31.349 --> 00:19:34.289
of that. And its own, CPCB's own AQI stations are
355
00:19:34.329 --> 00:19:37.779
there in all states. Now, from these different stations, it
356
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:44.000
collects Amalgam collects all the data for 8 different pollutants
357
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:49.589
and then it finally calculates the day's average AQI. So
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00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:53.730
if any data is missing, then the final AQI number
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00:19:53.779 --> 00:19:55.460
is also then impacted.
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00:19:56.259 --> 00:19:59.240
And we understand that on the night of Diwali, the
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00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:04.039
readings of some monitoring stations were not available, both for
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00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.490
the CPCB and the Delhi Pollution Control Committee. Do we
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00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:10.170
know why that is? Is it because the levels were
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00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:11.869
too high or something else?
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00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:16.720
Right. So, in fact, Central Pollution Control Board has issued
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00:20:16.819 --> 00:20:22.200
a statement saying that its instruments have a upper limit
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00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:26.769
of 1000 microgram per cubic meter. So, its analyzers do
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00:20:26.829 --> 00:20:30.670
not record anything above that. which is why it said
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00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:35.470
that it can appear as, you know, missing or data
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00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:39.359
that is not there. But before that, the Delhi Pollution
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00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:44.640
Control Committee also, there are a few stations that it
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00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:48.339
has in Delhi and among those stations also, there were
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00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:53.410
some Missing readings. Now that happens, the station level officers
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00:20:53.509 --> 00:20:58.829
had told us it's because of some instruments getting very much,
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00:20:59.130 --> 00:21:02.759
you know, overloaded. And because of that, there are some
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00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:08.170
interruptions or sensor related issues that are faced. Especially during
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00:21:08.269 --> 00:21:12.920
these peak, episodic, Diwali or festive related, you know, time.
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00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.339
And DPCC also has a control room where they are
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00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:21.740
supposed to trigger alerts to the
monitoring station if a
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00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:25.180
station is not giving reading in real time. These also
381
00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:30.289
take place and... So when we analyzed that data was missing,
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00:21:30.609 --> 00:21:33.990
basically we noticed that from, it was not only Diwali night,
383
00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:38.849
but a week before that also, at least 282 missing
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00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:44.279
PM10 readings were observed. And some stations had continuous hours
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00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:48.599
of outage. So, you know, this then definitely has an
386
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.359
impact on the final AQI also.
387
00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:52.279
Right.
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00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.029
So, Sophia, is the CPCB now planning to remove the
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00:21:56.069 --> 00:21:58.170
cap that their air monitoring systems have?
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00:21:58.789 --> 00:22:00.250
Have they said anything about that?
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00:22:01.009 --> 00:22:01.210
Right.
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00:22:01.329 --> 00:22:05.589
So it has said that there are internal consultations and
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00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:11.069
deliberations going on to review how these extreme, these outside
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00:22:11.130 --> 00:22:14.309
readings can also be taken into account or if there
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00:22:14.349 --> 00:22:17.789
has to be any updations. So that is underway, the
396
00:22:17.849 --> 00:22:21.450
whole methodology of, you know, calculating AQI and how to
397
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.740
incorporate these readings that come up or show outwardly to
398
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.220
be missing. those discussions are going on is what CPCB
399
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:33.059
has claimed but apart from that on the time being
400
00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:39.140
what are the concerns basically because CPCB calculates the day's
401
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:44.049
AQI official AQI based on a certain number of like
402
00:22:44.109 --> 00:22:49.869
it takes into account eight different pollutants and Then it calculates,
403
00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:53.200
you know, if a pollutant, all of these have a
404
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.720
certain number of hourly readings, only then it will take
405
00:22:57.819 --> 00:23:02.049
that pollutant into account for its final calculation because otherwise
406
00:23:02.069 --> 00:23:06.230
it will show insufficient data. So if the data itself
407
00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:09.630
is not hourly reading itself is not taken into account,
408
00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:12.970
then there is a risk that the final AQI will
409
00:23:13.009 --> 00:23:16.849
then take that particular station's data to be insufficient and
410
00:23:16.930 --> 00:23:19.650
then the final AQI could be undercounted.
411
00:23:19.690 --> 00:23:21.450
So that risk is there.
412
00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:22.279
Right.
413
00:23:22.470 --> 00:23:25.140
And you also had the opportunity of talking to some
414
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experts regarding pollution levels.
415
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:28.859
So what did they have to say?
416
00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:34.750
So for reporting, I spoke to two main experts who
417
00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:38.519
are pollution analysts and who've been tracking Delhi's air quality
418
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.740
for some time now, not only Delhi, but overall India.
419
00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:45.829
So one of them is Sunil Dahia. He's a founder
420
00:23:45.910 --> 00:23:49.970
and lead analyst at this think tank. EnviroCatalyst, he said
421
00:23:50.089 --> 00:23:53.269
that it was very evident as per the data that
422
00:23:53.369 --> 00:23:58.170
firecrackers drove most of the spike because sulfur dioxide emissions
423
00:23:58.470 --> 00:24:03.200
nearly quadrupled and most of the rise was observed after
424
00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:07.099
the 10 p.m. Supreme Court deadline. So he said that
425
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:11.880
there were, you know, open violations. And even at a.m.
426
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:16.220
the next morning, post Diwali, the PM 2.5 remained very high.
427
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.559
It was close to 350 microgram per cubic meter. And
428
00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:25.380
what he said was the meteorological conditions were also not favorable.
429
00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:29.099
Like the wind speed was very, you know, close to negligible.
430
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:32.740
There were calm winds. And so it did not help
431
00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:36.950
the pollutants to get dispersed properly. He said that, you know,
432
00:24:36.970 --> 00:24:41.470
it's a classic example that When meteorological conditions are also
433
00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:44.630
not favorable and then you add to that, there is
434
00:24:44.690 --> 00:24:48.490
already a pollution baseline that is already high because of
435
00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:49.559
other sources also.
436
00:24:49.579 --> 00:24:52.119
It's not just firecrackers, industries.
437
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.480
Vehicular emissions, road dust, construction dust, all of that is
438
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.900
already there in Delhi and other neighboring areas. So adding
439
00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:05.930
to that, this firecracker emissions just increased the pollution load
440
00:25:05.970 --> 00:25:09.930
a lot. Then Manoj Kumar, he is from CREA, another
441
00:25:09.970 --> 00:25:10.650
think tank.
442
00:25:10.789 --> 00:25:11.490
He is a lead.
443
00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:14.839
Pollution analyst there. He said that he also flagged that
444
00:25:15.099 --> 00:25:20.099
they had stopped reporting. And, you know, these readings, he
445
00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:22.940
explicitly said that, you know, they should not be treated
446
00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:27.769
as any ordinary missing data because it could lead to underestimation.
447
00:25:28.109 --> 00:25:31.890
And it means that the extreme, you know, the high
448
00:25:31.970 --> 00:25:36.910
peak pollution concentrations are not getting properly represented in what
449
00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:38.109
the final figures are.
450
00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:42.150
And Sophia, we understand that a massive number of farm
451
00:25:42.210 --> 00:25:45.779
fires took place in Punjab around the same time as Diwali.
452
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.160
Did that make the situation worse?
453
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:49.180
Tell us about that.
454
00:25:50.109 --> 00:25:54.049
So, what happened before Diwali was that, like a few
455
00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:59.539
days before Diwali, by November 5, predominant contributor was farm
456
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:04.299
fires and transport emissions. We moved closer to Diwali by
457
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.599
November 6 and November 7, we saw a dip. We
458
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:13.289
saw that firecracker contribution, which had considerably increased. So, Now
459
00:26:13.349 --> 00:26:17.950
for the first time also, IATM has started showing how
460
00:26:18.009 --> 00:26:24.109
much is the exact contribution of firecrackers to Delhi's pollution, PM2. 5.
461
00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:31.380
So they clearly showed that slightly more than 71% of PM2. 5
462
00:26:30.430 --> 00:26:34.700
in Delhi was directly due to firecrackers bursting. And so
463
00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:40.619
by that time, by November 8, FarmFi's contribution had dipped significantly.
464
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.680
And so, like I said, it's also because of wind direction.
465
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.549
It's also dependent on that. So, it's a very, you know,
466
00:26:47.609 --> 00:26:50.130
it's a episodic pollutant.
467
00:26:50.829 --> 00:26:51.069
Right.
468
00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:54.190
So, what's the current situation of the AQI in the
469
00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:58.440
Delhi NCR region? And what has the meteorological department predicted
470
00:26:58.599 --> 00:26:59.680
for the upcoming days?
471
00:27:00.509 --> 00:27:03.950
So right now, the AQI trend is that it's going
472
00:27:03.990 --> 00:27:07.519
to turn to severe category, which is AQI that is
473
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:13.230
above 400. So IATM has said that roughly from November
474
00:27:13.230 --> 00:27:16.390
12 to 13, the AQI is going to be like
475
00:27:16.490 --> 00:27:19.670
above 400. So that is the forecast for now. And
476
00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:22.130
why is this so? One of the main factors is
477
00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:26.319
also wind condition. Wind speed is expected to, you know,
478
00:27:26.339 --> 00:27:29.519
keep on varying. So some days it could be like
479
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.700
5 to 10 kmph and it could also increase to
480
00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:36.900
15 kmph. But that's the limit. It's not going to be,
481
00:27:37.049 --> 00:27:41.529
it's not forecast above 15 kmph. And also, the temperature
482
00:27:41.750 --> 00:27:44.470
is also going to dip in the coming days. So
483
00:27:44.569 --> 00:27:48.549
both a dip in temperature and low wind speeds have
484
00:27:48.569 --> 00:27:53.720
a direct impact, apart from all the sources, the baseline
485
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:55.519
pollution that is there in Delhi.
486
00:27:56.019 --> 00:27:59.420
So, Sophia, keeping all of this in mind, are there
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00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.339
any guidelines regarding what people can do to keep themselves
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00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.900
safe from the pollution-related health issues?
489
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:11.670
So, CQM in its advisory says only for GRAP4, mind you,
490
00:28:11.990 --> 00:28:18.450
specifically about health-related advisory under GRAP4, which is imposed when
491
00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:23.190
AQI is expected to be in severe category 450 plus
492
00:28:23.259 --> 00:28:27.299
and all. So, CQM says that it advises citizens to,
493
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:31.599
first of all, limit their outdoor exposure. Any kind of,
494
00:28:31.660 --> 00:28:36.359
you know, non-essential outdoor activity should be limited. And especially
495
00:28:36.380 --> 00:28:43.170
it advises children, pregnant women, elderly and those with respiratory ailments,
496
00:28:43.369 --> 00:28:48.589
cardiovascular issues, cerebrovascular issues or any other chronic diseases to
497
00:28:48.829 --> 00:28:51.430
avoid outdoor activities and to stay indoors.
498
00:28:51.789 --> 00:28:53.589
So this is an advisory that they have.
499
00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:57.430
And they also say that if, you know, it's required
500
00:28:57.470 --> 00:29:01.269
to move outdoors, then they have an advisory to wear mask.
501
00:29:02.069 --> 00:29:06.269
So this is what CQM has said but now AQI
502
00:29:06.849 --> 00:29:10.549
is also an indicative scale based on you know it's
503
00:29:10.650 --> 00:29:14.269
directly correlated to the health impact that may be caused
504
00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:17.710
when a pollution level is under a certain category. In
505
00:29:17.769 --> 00:29:21.910
severe category it says that all people including healthy people
506
00:29:22.069 --> 00:29:27.099
and people especially with serious ailments those with existing diseases.
507
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:27.700
Are in danger.
508
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.759
And yeah, so that was the whole, even the AQI
509
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:35.589
scale is kind of associated with the health impact. But
510
00:29:36.029 --> 00:29:39.490
so CPCB has also highlighted this in its latest statement
511
00:29:39.529 --> 00:29:43.079
saying that which is why they have set it to
512
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.799
500 because beyond 500, it would mean the same thing.
513
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:51.099
The last threshold that they have kept 401 to 500.
514
00:29:51.099 --> 00:29:54.990
If it crosses 500, they are claiming that the health
515
00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:59.230
impact rate is anyway for all the entire population. So
516
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:01.230
it's going to remain the same. So which is why
517
00:30:01.250 --> 00:30:04.180
they have kept it to 500.
518
00:30:07.730 --> 00:30:10.470
And finally, we turn to an attack in South Kashmir's
519
00:30:10.569 --> 00:30:15.380
Kulgam
district where three CRPF personnel were injured after suspected
520
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:20.119
terrorists opened fire at a security checkpoint in Akhran area
521
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.279
near Mir Bazar on Wednesday. This is the third terror
522
00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:26.650
attack in Jammu and Kashmir since July and the second
523
00:30:26.750 --> 00:30:29.930
targeting security personnel. The attack took place on a day
524
00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:33.690
when Lieutenant Governor Manoj Sinha was visiting Kulgam to inaugurate
525
00:30:33.769 --> 00:30:36.869
a festival. Security had been stepped up for his visit
526
00:30:36.930 --> 00:30:40.480
to a government degree college around 16 kilometres from the
527
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:44.140
site of the attack. The Indian Express's Basharat Masood reports
528
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:48.180
that the investigators are examining the possibility that the attackers
529
00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:52.680
belong to a Lashkar-e-Taiba module operating in South Kashmir. At
530
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.869
least three suspected overground workers of the outfit are being questioned,
531
00:30:57.180 --> 00:31:01.250
with investigators looking into whether they provided logistical support and
532
00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:04.990
shelter to the attackers. Police officers told Masood that as
533
00:31:05.029 --> 00:31:09.390
per preliminary investigations, at least three terrorists were involved. two
534
00:31:09.450 --> 00:31:13.250
of whom appear to be foreign nationals. The attackers reportedly
535
00:31:13.309 --> 00:31:16.269
approached the checkpoint on foot from a marshy area around
536
00:31:16.269 --> 00:31:20.319
50 metres away, opened fire and escaped through nearby trees
537
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:24.059
and bushes. Security forces have cordoned off the area and
538
00:31:24.099 --> 00:31:27.380
launched a search operation. The CRPF said that the attack
539
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.940
took place around 2.15pm and one of the injured personnel
540
00:31:30.980 --> 00:31:34.460
sustained bullet injuries to his abdomen and spine and was
541
00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:37.490
undergoing surgery, while the other two were injured in their
542
00:31:37.549 --> 00:31:41.170
legs and arms. Basharat also reports that the attack has
543
00:31:41.250 --> 00:31:45.130
raised concerns within the security establishment about the ability of
544
00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:48.890
small groups of foreign terrorists to carry out targeted strikes
545
00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:52.420
with the help of local support networks despite a decline
546
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:56.680
in local recruitment. There had been general intelligence inputs, warning
547
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.880
of possible hit-and-run attacks around Diwali, following which security forces
548
00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:04.750
across Shamu and Kashmir were alerted. However, officers say such
549
00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:08.769
attacks are difficult to prevent without specific intelligence. The period
550
00:32:08.789 --> 00:32:13.319
before winter is also considered particularly vulnerable as terrorists move
551
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.480
from higher reaches of the Pir Panjal mountains to lower
552
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:23.390
elevations before snowfall restricts movement. You were listening to Three
553
00:32:23.450 --> 00:32:26.509
Things by the Indian Express. Today's show was edited and
554
00:32:26.569 --> 00:32:30.210
mixed by Suresh Pawar and produced by Shashank Bhargav and me,
555
00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:33.289
Niharika Nanda. If you like the show, then do subscribe
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