РАСШИФРОВКА 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:02.299
You're listening to Quorum Radio.
2
00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:06.330
Can I make a little digression into nutrition Scientology and
3
00:00:06.370 --> 00:00:07.129
David Miscavige?
4
00:00:07.469 --> 00:00:07.990
Oh, yeah, sure.
5
00:00:08.390 --> 00:00:08.570
Go ahead.
6
00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:09.130
Tell us about that.
7
00:00:09.710 --> 00:00:12.169
Well, I had a good number of meetings with David
8
00:00:12.189 --> 00:00:16.829
Miscavige in various parts of the world, actually. Australia and
9
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:23.140
here in the U.S. And we had private meetings in L.A.,
10
00:00:23.910 --> 00:00:27.969
I went out to L.A. after I had done some
11
00:00:27.989 --> 00:00:30.390
freelance work for them and actually served for a while
12
00:00:30.489 --> 00:00:34.369
as executive editor of their magazine. I was trying.
13
00:00:34.590 --> 00:00:34.929
How long?
14
00:00:35.469 --> 00:00:39.320
For about two and a half years, two years.
15
00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:41.439
What's that in the publication?
16
00:00:41.859 --> 00:00:48.079
It's called Freedom Magazine. And Freedom Magazine had an interesting history.
17
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:51.750
I mean, it had actually done some. pretty incredible investigative
18
00:00:51.789 --> 00:00:54.850
work over the course of its lifetime. And it was
19
00:00:54.950 --> 00:00:58.170
run by journalists. One journalist who had worked for Jack
20
00:00:58.270 --> 00:01:01.990
Anderson was a longtime editor of Freedom Magazine. And Freedom
21
00:01:02.009 --> 00:01:05.170
Magazine had done some exposés on Central Intelligence Agency and
22
00:01:05.209 --> 00:01:07.370
a lot of things that were not related directly to
23
00:01:07.409 --> 00:01:11.450
the church. But later on, the magazine was turned more
24
00:01:11.510 --> 00:01:16.189
into a house organ and basically arguments about the church
25
00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:20.250
and promotion of the church activities. And I wanted to
26
00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:22.890
take it more back into the investigative direction. We never
27
00:01:22.989 --> 00:01:25.870
really got there, but we did a few investigative pieces
28
00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:30.790
that were fairly good. But the course of events, I
29
00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:35.939
met people that were, I met the executive trustee of L.
30
00:01:36.349 --> 00:01:40.420
Ron Hubbard's estate who had traveled with Hubbard for a
31
00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:44.939
good part of Hubbard's tenure as head of the Church
32
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:45.920
of Scientology.
33
00:01:46.299 --> 00:01:52.609
What was his name? The... Not much on the spot.
34
00:01:52.769 --> 00:01:54.650
You know, you both got to get this out.
35
00:01:55.129 --> 00:01:55.390
Yeah.
36
00:01:55.810 --> 00:01:59.849
Anyway, it'll come to me in a second. The Norman Starkey,
37
00:01:59.989 --> 00:02:00.549
what's his name?
38
00:02:00.689 --> 00:02:01.269
Norman Starkey.
39
00:02:01.450 --> 00:02:02.150
Norman Starkey.
40
00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:05.549
I mean, so this is like, you're not.
41
00:02:05.530 --> 00:02:07.709
A member of the church, are you?
42
00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:08.969
No, no, no.
43
00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:11.069
I'm a casual Episcopalian.
44
00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:17.620
Okay. So, you know, I mean, so many people left it.
45
00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.400
The Church of Scientology is talking about people are kept
46
00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:25.639
in the hole. They're basically treated like garbage. David Miscavige
47
00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:32.330
is extremely violent and, you know, assaults people like at
48
00:02:32.370 --> 00:02:33.129
a certain frequency.
49
00:02:35.409 --> 00:02:36.909
And people just.
50
00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:42.719
Basically have a lot of tales of abuse, tales of escape.
51
00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:47.650
You know, it doesn't seem like a An institution that would,
52
00:02:47.689 --> 00:02:50.110
you know, feel comfortable with using the word freedom in
53
00:02:50.150 --> 00:02:52.990
its flagship magazine title, you know.
54
00:02:53.469 --> 00:02:53.729
Right.
55
00:02:54.629 --> 00:02:55.550
Right.
56
00:02:56.050 --> 00:03:00.000
And so that is a perception that has been pretty
57
00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:04.819
broadly established across the American culture, that Scientology is an
58
00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:08.960
organization that is a cult and it does bad things
59
00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.719
to people, et cetera. But, you know, one thing that
60
00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:15.229
my experience has taught me is that the public perception
61
00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:19.039
isn't always perfect. necessarily accurate. But a lot of reporters
62
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.360
are willing to go along with that public perception from
63
00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:26.360
the outset. My approach has been, I want to know
64
00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.580
whether that's true or not. And I applied the same
65
00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:32.039
thing to when I was covering prisons. Public officials in
66
00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.939
the state of Indiana would tell you that there was
67
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.919
never a human rights violation or the drug traffic was
68
00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:40.159
bad or they were providing good rehabilitation services for people
69
00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:42.340
in prison. But when I got in there, you know,
70
00:03:42.370 --> 00:03:44.979
it didn't look like that. And the story I heard
71
00:03:45.020 --> 00:03:48.000
about Scientology when I got inside, it didn't look like that.
72
00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:53.469
So I was given the opportunity to ask any question
73
00:03:53.530 --> 00:03:57.409
I wanted, to go anywhere I wanted, and they would
74
00:03:57.449 --> 00:04:00.430
provide documents to me to back up their arguments. And
75
00:04:00.469 --> 00:04:03.569
that was my deal. If I ask a question, I
76
00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:05.740
want an answer, and I want it backed up. And
77
00:04:05.800
Load full transcript
--> 00:04:08.159
they did that over and over again.
78
00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:09.819
So I toured that. What's that?
79
00:04:12.610 --> 00:04:18.529
I toured the gold facility where the trailers were supposed
80
00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:22.310
to be, where people were held hostage and were brutalized
81
00:04:22.430 --> 00:04:26.610
and assaulted, etc. I didn't see anything like that. I
82
00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:29.649
talked to hundreds of people in Scientology about what their
83
00:04:29.689 --> 00:04:32.389
attitude was about being a part of it or not
84
00:04:32.430 --> 00:04:34.560
being a part of it. One of the arguments that
85
00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:38.279
was made about Scientology was that people couldn't leave and
86
00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.610
they had to escape. A lot of those stories were,
87
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.389
I think, created out of whole cloth because I never
88
00:04:46.430 --> 00:04:49.029
saw anybody held hostage. You could walk out on the
89
00:04:49.069 --> 00:04:50.910
street any time you wanted to. You could have a
90
00:04:50.949 --> 00:04:51.910
cell phone if you wanted.
91
00:04:52.689 --> 00:04:53.829
Good. Right.
92
00:04:53.850 --> 00:04:56.089
But, I mean, did they have a minder that was
93
00:04:56.129 --> 00:04:59.370
like kind of a guide that would accompany you as
94
00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:00.910
you went from place to place or what?
95
00:05:01.540 --> 00:05:04.100
Well, a good part of the time. But I was,
96
00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:10.209
you know, I was. I went to Hungary. I toured
97
00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:13.949
the church. I hung out with local members. I moved
98
00:05:14.009 --> 00:05:19.329
through situations there and elsewhere. There was not someone that
99
00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:22.800
was constantly at my shoulder, although on one occasion when
100
00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:28.459
I was in England at the manor there, the headquarters,
101
00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:34.439
I had a couple of young people with me, and
102
00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.500
I They went one direction, I went another, and one
103
00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:39.649
of them remarked, oh, my God, we've left a reporter
104
00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:44.569
loose on the grounds. But, you know, I pretty much
105
00:05:44.649 --> 00:05:48.750
had open access to most anything I wanted to see,
106
00:05:48.769 --> 00:05:55.639
and that was instructive. I met people across the country,
107
00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.920
people that were believers. You know, people can believe what
108
00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:02.730
they want, and I endorse the idea of religious freedom
109
00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:06.759
to people. people making up their own minds. But there
110
00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:08.730
is a lot of distortion about the history of the
111
00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.670
Catholic Church. It doesn't mean, the Catholic Church, the Church
112
00:06:11.689 --> 00:06:16.069
of Scientology, and the Catholic Church, but it doesn't mean
113
00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:18.449
that all of those stories are untrue or from the
114
00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:22.370
perspective of the person involved, that there were not situations
115
00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:26.050
that were bad. But I never saw any indication of
116
00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:29.829
violence or talked to anyone that showed any indication of
117
00:06:29.870 --> 00:06:34.910
violence except in circumstances involving individuals who were making those
118
00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:38.589
accusations on occasions had engaged themselves in.
119
00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:43.990
So, okay, at any point, did you talk to ex-members
120
00:06:44.069 --> 00:06:44.529
of the church?
121
00:06:45.430 --> 00:06:45.730
I did.
122
00:06:45.750 --> 00:06:53.129
Yeah, a good number of ex-members. Yeah. And I reviewed their,
123
00:06:53.389 --> 00:06:58.250
the documentations and things, films. I spent a lot of
124
00:06:58.269 --> 00:07:00.939
time reviewing those kinds of things.
125
00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:02.100
That's right.
126
00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:02.420
Okay.
127
00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:03.839
Okay.
128
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.180
So I want to ask you a question about David Miscavige.
129
00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:08.740
He's done like one interview or maybe he's done more interviews.
130
00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:09.389
That we just don't know about.
131
00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:14.089
Did, besides that interview I think he did with Ted
132
00:07:14.129 --> 00:07:18.189
Koppel and oh gosh, I was like, what was it?
133
00:07:18.189 --> 00:07:19.490
1994 is a long time ago.
134
00:07:19.889 --> 00:07:20.550
A long time ago.
135
00:07:21.100 --> 00:07:23.220
And see, why doesn't he do interviews? I mean, he's, he's,
136
00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:28.060
he's the head of the church. He's, you know, obviously
137
00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:29.839
the church of Scientology wants new members.
138
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.389
Um, You would think that that guy would be, you know,
139
00:07:33.589 --> 00:07:35.649
get as much exposure as possible.
140
00:07:36.209 --> 00:07:38.649
Why doesn't he?
141
00:07:38.670 --> 00:07:41.240
I think maybe the history with the media is part
142
00:07:41.250 --> 00:07:45.639
of one of the reasons. And, you know, I think
143
00:07:45.699 --> 00:07:49.579
what a lot of people don't know about Scientology is
144
00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:54.790
the very difficult road they had to establishing themselves in
145
00:07:55.170 --> 00:07:58.430
various countries around the world and the kinds of things
146
00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.699
that were done about Scientology where they were treated like
147
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:06.490
a call in Germany, in England, in Australia, other places.
148
00:08:07.329 --> 00:08:10.430
At one time in Australia, if you possess Scientology materials,
149
00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:13.230
it could lead to your arrest or your children being
150
00:08:13.269 --> 00:08:15.829
taken away from you or your children not
being allowed
151
00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:20.500
to attend public schools. In England, they restricted people's ability
152
00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:22.639
who were members of the church to fly.
153
00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:23.199
In and out of the country.
154
00:08:23.949 --> 00:08:28.870
Then there have been a lot of repression of the
155
00:08:28.930 --> 00:08:30.509
church and the church's ideas.
156
00:08:32.649 --> 00:08:36.720
So, you know, the- I mean, they didn't, I'm sorry,
157
00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:37.039
go ahead.
158
00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:39.500
I was just gonna say that, you.
159
00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:45.480
Know, the attitude that's been long expressed toward the church,
160
00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:49.840
I think, is part of the reluctance of Miscavige to
161
00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:52.529
come out and do those kinds of interviews. In the
162
00:08:52.570 --> 00:08:54.690
interview he did with Ted Koppel, actually, I thought he
163
00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:55.850
did a fairly good job of.
164
00:08:56.590 --> 00:08:58.409
Actually, yeah, I will say this. I think he acquitted
165
00:08:58.429 --> 00:09:02.809
himself very, very well. Probably spent lots of time preparing
166
00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:11.649
for it. But, you know, I think it's an important factor,
167
00:09:11.789 --> 00:09:16.570
let's say, an important consideration in this whole treatment of
168
00:09:16.629 --> 00:09:20.669
Scientology that they supposedly infiltrated the government at many levels, right?
169
00:09:21.289 --> 00:09:24.090
They did. They did infiltrate the government.
170
00:09:25.009 --> 00:09:26.629
And the CIA as well, right?
171
00:09:27.269 --> 00:09:29.370
But when you go back into the story of what
172
00:09:29.450 --> 00:09:33.470
actually happened there, which probably most people don't know, is
173
00:09:33.490 --> 00:09:36.139
that there was something called the Guardian's Office, which in
174
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.259
the wake of all of the attacks on the church
175
00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:45.820
was developed by L. Ron Hubbard's wife to protect the church.
176
00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:49.899
But it became something of a franchise for her. And
177
00:09:49.940 --> 00:09:55.009
she was the person essentially behind putting employees into the IRS,
178
00:09:55.509 --> 00:10:00.879
the FBI, other agencies where they could gather documents. to
179
00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:05.080
show that the government was improperly attacking the church. And
180
00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.000
of course, they had the big IRS case going on forever.
181
00:10:08.700 --> 00:10:13.840
And so they did infiltrate. They were discovered. They were prosecuted.
182
00:10:14.539 --> 00:10:17.580
And people actually went to jail over that. But the
183
00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:22.539
guardian's office then later was disbanded, and it was disbanded
184
00:10:22.580 --> 00:10:27.460
by Miscavige because of those excesses and that abuse. And
185
00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:30.259
he is the one that launched the negotiations with the
186
00:10:30.379 --> 00:10:34.580
IRS that lasted for a couple of years and resulted
187
00:10:34.899 --> 00:10:38.220
in trainloads of documents from the Church of Scientology being
188
00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:41.000
turned over to the IRS, something that you won't really
189
00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.240
read about in Lawrence Wright's book about Scientology because he
190
00:10:45.259 --> 00:10:47.330
took it off as a point of view that the
191
00:10:47.370 --> 00:10:51.139
Church was so vigorously threatening to sue the IRS that
192
00:10:51.179 --> 00:10:54.340
they couldn't keep up with all the lawsuits, which is
193
00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.039
an argument that may sound good to the people not
194
00:10:57.139 --> 00:11:00.799
well-informed about how these kind of court cases work, but
195
00:11:00.850 --> 00:11:04.330
that wasn't what happened. They turned over documents that included,
196
00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:07.570
they showed me a piece of paper with some loose
197
00:11:07.629 --> 00:11:11.389
coins taped to the piece of paper to account for
198
00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:13.529
a few cents of missing money.
199
00:11:14.059 --> 00:11:15.279
David Miscavige.
200
00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:17.879
I understand you met him several times.
201
00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:24.330
I had numerous conversations with him. I had meetings with
202
00:11:24.370 --> 00:11:29.169
him to discuss matters about the church with other individuals,
203
00:11:30.610 --> 00:11:33.809
conversations about their magazine and what it was supposed to
204
00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:36.269
be and what it was supposed to do. I was
205
00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:38.500
with him in the back room of.
206
00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:44.529
Church in Detroit when he was getting ready for his presentations.
207
00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:49.529
I was there with him in Australia when they were
208
00:11:49.590 --> 00:11:53.940
opening their new church. We had a lot of conversations.
209
00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:59.779
They weren't necessarily all one-on-one, but we talked about issues
210
00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:03.240
and things that were raised and the negativity toward the
211
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.009
church and how that was perceived inside and what their
212
00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:11.299
argument was that contrasted that. And not just David Miscavige,
213
00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:15.620
but the attorneys for the church and the upper-level people
214
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:21.460
that were there that were engaged in the day-to-day. And
215
00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:26.220
also the people that drove celebrities back and forth. I
216
00:12:26.259 --> 00:12:27.139
got to know them well.
217
00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:33.519
So these were like in-person meetings or on the phone
218
00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:33.820
or what?
219
00:12:34.659 --> 00:12:36.679
No, most always in person.
220
00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:38.850
What is he like?
221
00:12:41.250 -->
00:12:45.289
He's a very personable individual. You know, I was in England,
222
00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:50.259
and I was allowed into a private meeting with some
223
00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:56.860
local individuals in East Grinstead. And that local community has
224
00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.379
been supported by the Church of Scientology since Hubbard founded
225
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.320
his organization there and was part of that community in
226
00:13:04.379 --> 00:13:07.009
East Grinstead. And he had a conversation. He went to
227
00:13:07.090 --> 00:13:09.350
school there. He had a conversation with his former coach
228
00:13:09.389 --> 00:13:14.320
who had become mayor of East Grinstead. And, you know,
229
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:20.299
he is personable. He's warm. He draws people to him.
230
00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:24.100
And at the same time, when it comes to the church,
231
00:13:24.139 --> 00:13:32.250
he can be very abrupt. And I can see how
232
00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:37.259
in some cases people... might suggest that he could have
233
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:42.179
an aggressive response. But I don't see that. I never
234
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.700
saw it in my conversations with him. I did see
235
00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:48.899
him on a couple of occasions talk to people directly
236
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.850
about what they had done and should have done instead.
237
00:13:51.870 --> 00:13:58.070
But nothing I hadn't ever seen in a newsroom. And
238
00:13:58.230 --> 00:14:01.009
certainly more mild, perhaps, you know.
239
00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:02.110
Sure.
240
00:14:02.169 --> 00:14:04.669
So when was the last time you were in touch
241
00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:07.049
with him? Is this something that goes back on a
242
00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:08.269
couple of years, months?
243
00:14:08.379 --> 00:14:09.580
Yeah, it goes back a while.
244
00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.500
This morning, decades ago?
245
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.700
It was, I think, when I finished up the book
246
00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:23.279
in 2021, 2022 was the last time I actually was
247
00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:27.720
there with people from the organization in LA.
248
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.200
So Tom Cruise, that was somebody, of course, he's an
249
00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.879
important person in the church. Did you ever have the
250
00:14:34.899 --> 00:14:36.740
opportunity to meet with him, deal with him?
251
00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:39.940
I never did. I was in the same room with
252
00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.570
him once. I never actually got to talk to him. But,
253
00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.830
you know, I think there's a widely distorted picture of
254
00:14:48.330 --> 00:14:53.090
his place within the church. He's a member. He supports it.
255
00:14:53.549 --> 00:14:56.669
He believes in the ideas. He's a friend of Miscavige's.
256
00:14:57.970 --> 00:15:03.159
but celebrities are not part of the governing body of
257
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:08.980
the
church. They don't participate in that way. And they support,
258
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:17.120
they encourage others, they endorse those parts of the philosophy
259
00:15:17.210 --> 00:15:20.470
that they like, but they don't make decisions on the
260
00:15:20.509 --> 00:15:21.950
day-to-day operations of the church.
261
00:15:23.649 --> 00:15:30.700
Is it, you know, some people will say Scientology is growing, stagnating,
262
00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.419
treading water. What are your thoughts about how big it
263
00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:37.120
is as an institution regarding members?
264
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:40.210
I know that the church has put a lot of
265
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.549
effort into growth around the world. And critics say, well,
266
00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:47.830
they're opening churches, but there's nobody in them. Well, there
267
00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:49.230
are quite a few people in them when I went
268
00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:54.470
to visit them. So, I don't know. the accuracy of that.
269
00:15:54.690 --> 00:16:00.409
I'm not in touch with various congregants, but I do
270
00:16:00.470 --> 00:16:05.549
know that when they've opened churches, they've done so in
271
00:16:05.590 --> 00:16:09.440
places where it may be difficult for them. They realize
272
00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:13.159
that and they address it as they go. They use
273
00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:18.799
the systems that everyone else uses. They lobby for their
274
00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:27.549
right to be and they're fairly sophisticated at it. They
275
00:16:28.110 --> 00:16:37.840
use attorneys and others with solid credentials, and they're not
276
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:44.659
blindly going along making mistakes, at least in my perception,
277
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.879
or what I learned from the church.
278
00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:51.370
So they've got still....
279
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.629
Lots of people in government that, let's say, are allies
280
00:16:56.690 --> 00:17:00.129
of Scientology still? Or do you think that chapter is
281
00:17:00.470 --> 00:17:01.370
kind of waned?
282
00:17:02.190 --> 00:17:04.130
I think, well, I think it was an isolated thing.
283
00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:06.869
It was an effort by the church to fight back.
284
00:17:07.930 --> 00:17:09.690
They were going to find out what the government knew
285
00:17:09.730 --> 00:17:13.390
and why they were on the enemies' lists, and they
286
00:17:13.509 --> 00:17:17.140
considered it suppression. So they did what they did, violated
287
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.710
the law, held accountable for it, and that led Those efforts,
288
00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:23.670
I think, were cleaned up. I don't think they do
289
00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:28.690
those sorts of things now. And I think when that happened,
290
00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:31.170
I think it was isolated to some individuals for whatever
291
00:17:31.210 --> 00:17:35.769
their enthusiasm was for protecting the church. They overstepped their bounds.
292
00:17:37.339 --> 00:17:37.819
Yeah, right.
293
00:17:38.859 --> 00:17:42.079
Right. So then Shelly Miscavige, did she get together with
294
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:43.940
you and David over.
295
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.599
Shrimp and champagne or that never happened?
296
00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:48.549
Who?
297
00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:56.339
Shelly Miscavige. I never met her. I was doing this tongue-in-cheek,
298
00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:56.940
that part.
299
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.440
Yeah, well, you're a guy who writes limericks.
300
00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:00.920
Yeah, exactly.
301
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:16.940
They say the neon lights are bright on Broadway.
302
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.190
On Broadway.
303
00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:25.740
They say there's always magic in the air.
304
00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:28.930
On Broadway.
305
00:18:29.009 --> 00:18:34.230
But when you're walking down the street and you ain't
306
00:18:34.269 --> 00:18:42.079
had it. They say the girls are something else on Broadway,
307
00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:45.119
but looking at them just so.
308
00:19:06.849 --> 00:19:09.490
Make some time.
309
00:19:09.069 --> 00:19:13.970
When all you got is one thin dime and one
310
00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:17.930
thin dime won't even shine your.
311
00:19:17.589 --> 00:19:24.920
Shoes on Broadway they say that I won't.
312
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:29.259
Last too long on Broadway.
313
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:32.329
On Broadway I'll.
314
00:19:31.490 --> 00:19:37.809
Catch a greyhound bus for home they all And.
315
00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:43.269
I won't pretend They get lost, I know they are
316
00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:49.099
Cause I can play this here guitar And I won't
317
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:57.579
pretend I'm a star On Broadway On Broadway.
318
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:23.490
I know they are, cause I can play this here guitar,
319
00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:27.069
and I won't pretend.
320
00:20:26.329 --> 00:20:28.660
I'm a star on Broadway.
321
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:51.390
Everybody, everybody's gonna know me.