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speaker-0: Welcome to Approved, the show about the people doing digital and social media for the people's business. Everybody talks about campaigns. Almost nobody talks about what happens after the win. The folks who are running digital for the members of Congress, advocacy groups, nonprofits, associations, and think tanks. The whole ecosystem that keeps government moving. I'm Wilson Johnson. I began my career in Capitol Hill. As a digital director in Congress. Back when the role barely existed, I helped build it and later co-founded the Association for the People who came after me. The show is where those people finally get their flowers. Let's get into it. Today I'm talking with Julie Kramer. She runs Digital for a house member, and she is the communications director. For digital dems, the staff association for democratic digital staff communicators. Julie came into this work from the most unlikely places: culinary school, film, and business. And she has a lot to say about something I have a lot to say about. And that is why the Hill keeps losing its best digital talent. Here's a conversation. Julie, I'm super excited to have you on the show, the approved podcast, you're the first guest. And that's because I really want to lay the foundation of what we're doing and why digital communication is so important. on hill. So the first thing I want my audience to know about you is your path. Everyone has a very unique path on the hill, but most of the path involves policies majors to Congress. And for you, your path is more unique. You don't have the again the policies background, you're creative, you come from a different part of production and you also come from a different part the country. So how has your path prepared you to for digital communications on the hill?
speaker-1: Yeah, so I've had an extremely unconventional path onto the hill. I always say if there was something creative to do, I've already done it. behind me, there's two giant canvases. I'm gonna take up painting. Who knows? And growing up. I was really able to explore a lot of my creative passions. And that led me to acting. Acting involved into writing screenplays. And then I went into culinary school. And then quickly learned that I don't like standing on my feet for 12 hours a day. And I don't really like getting yelled at. So I left really quickly. Politics has always been a part of my life, and I've always kind of been that friend posting political stuff on their Instagram story, always being like, hey, like listen to this political creator. And so I was like, wait, I can make that my job. And so I really haven't looked back since. From all those kinds of places, I still use what I've learned in all of them to this day, like screenwriting. I write scripts in my work. And then also in my culinary school. I took a menu design class. And so I use that in my graphics that I make all the time as well. And then also, how to make a proper budget for franking. And you have to pitch press. So how to make a good pitch from sales and all that stuff. So all that is needed as a digital staffer. And I'm not saying that everybody needs to go down this crazy wacky path to get there, but you always have the opportunity to take what you learn from different areas in your life and to apply it now. And I think that. being in digital on the hill and having so many different experiences also just helps in general with staying grounded. All that to say I've had a crazy career up until this point, but I'm so glad that it's led me to the hill and in what I'm doing now.
speaker-0: You bring a creative eye to a lot of people on the Hill don't have, especially again, you have your background in creativity. How does that background change the way you approach digital? especially turning something wonky or hard to understand policy into something someone actually can understand and actually want to take action on. How do you do that? Tell me your ways. That's hard.
speaker-1: Yeah, it is one of the most difficult parts of the job is translating crazy stuff into something that's understandable to the general public. But I digital is a creative first role, but that's not to say that you have to be super creative to succeed in this role, but it obviously it helps a lot. There's so much more strategy that goes into this job and creativity can show up in different aspects too. You don't need to be Christopher Nolan to work on the
speaker-0: For yourself, I need to be Christopher Nolan.
speaker-1: Sometimes I'm like, okay, let's compose this shot in a specific way. I'm like, literally, nobody cares but you, Julie. this is for a 30-second social media video. Nobody cares. But like you can have creativity in like problem solving and like figuring out problems and like who to reach and like the right audience at the right moment. I think that all kind of takes creativity within itself. And you know. In regards to turning wonky stuff into something that people connect with, I think it's so easy on the hill to just get sucked into that policy. Because obviously it's really important for our jobs to understand what we're communicating. And we do have to be policy wonks at the end of the day to just be good at our jobs. There's a time to be wonky and in the weeds, but there's also time to go and touch some grass. You know, like we have to go out and talk to people that aren't in politics, that aren't in Washington, that are in our districts, or, you know, affected by our committees or our states. And that part doesn't take creativity exactly. It just takes that initiative to go out and like step out of our bubble. Cause I think it's so difficult in Washington to just be like, yep, this is the world. This is how everybody thinks. Like I can talk about what a filibuster is to everybody and they just get it. But like I promise you, like 90% of the people you graduated high school with don't know. A single thing about what's happening on the hill.
speaker-0: No,
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absolutely not. And I feel like again, we we tend to be in a bubble. And I do love that you recommend to leave your space, live your comfortability, live the bubble, live the hill and talk to real people, quote unquote real Americans, which is you know its own thing, because then you'll know how they feel about that issue. And then that can even give you an idea of how to speak about it and translate it from a wonky issue to an issue that actually affects people. It's a good advice there.
speaker-1: Yeah. And I think it just boils down to our job is to be effective at communicating with our constituents and sometimes it's stakeholders, but at the end of the day it's for constituents. And we need to have that skill under our belt to be effective at what we do.
speaker-0: Absolutely. And so something else that I want to ask you about is the future of Digital on the Hill. Because that's something you and I are passionate about. We care about. I want to protect, you want protect, because it's such an important role. Why does it still get treated as a junior role? And what changes when an office actually takes it seriously and get it right?
speaker-1: Yeah, I would love to know why it's still a junior roll. That's not, it's above my pay grade right now, unfortunately.
speaker-0: You're supposed to be senior.
speaker-1: I know. Well, like ask me when I'm senior, you know. you know, I think that that 2024 was a huge wake-up call for a lot of Dems. Like we woke up and went right back to sleep and like we're sleeping at the wheel right now. You know, I do see a lot more offices embracing digital and taking digital a little bit more seriously, but at the same time, the hill like. hemorrhaging digital talent left and right because there is literally no place for us to grow. Like once you're a digital director, you've hit the ceiling of being digital. You can either go in traditional press or stay junior forever or go off hill where you can be a senior digital person at a firm or you know I even see campaigns nowadays having senior digital people as well. But like we're already doing so much with so very little as congressional offices. We ha have s such little funds to work with and we have such tiny staffs and you know, I obviously I think on our Senate side, brothers and sisters, like they have a lot larger staff and I'm kind of jealous of them, but like it's it's whatever.
speaker-0: quick tangent when I was in the Senate and I saw that we had a t a communications team of more than two, I was like, wow, you guys are living in a different tax bracket.
speaker-1: Eye rollers there. We're doing so much with so little as congressional offices, but we're leaving like a really crucial staffer behind. And it's the staffer that's really only one of the major touch points in at least a DC office that's talking or engaging with constituents on a very regular basis on quite a mass scale, depending on your follower count or your reach of different accounts. Like some accounts have millions of followers. Your digital staffer is talking to millions of people a day. Yep. That's high stakes right there. And so leaving that staffer out of the strategy room in 2026 is antiquated. Ooh, that's a crazy word to put in there, but it just is. So we're just in a time where people are getting their news on digital, they're getting their updates on digital. So many more Americans no longer have cable, but they have Facebook or Instagram or TikTok. And it's been said for years and years and years that like digital should start being our focus. For communications on the hill. I don't know when that's gonna happen. But I'm really hoping that it's rather soon because it's an urgent need these days because we're not meeting the constituents where they are. And the constituents are ahead of us. Like we just need to meet them there. And we already have the talent on the hill to do that. And it just it boils down to like internal strategy and restructuring there. But like when an office really starts to focus on digital, you're connecting with constituents more. And you're utilizing creators as you would journalists and amplifying your message that way, but also all while still having traditional media as the support for digital in the very same way that digital right now is the support for traditional. Listen, like I love press. I am technically a comms director. I do love press, and there is a time and place for it. But as press shrinks and digital grows, I think our emphasis on the hill has to move as well.
speaker-0: Whoo, you just said some words there. You might I love those. You are the communications director for digital dems. Digital Dems is like the association in the Hill for Hill staffers who do digital, which is like the most easiest way I can say that. so what does right you are a communications director for digital dems. What does the association do for digital staffers? Why does it matter now? And how has what digital means on the hill changed since it started?
speaker-1: Digital Dems is the leading Democratic Communicator Staff Association on the Hill. Not only are we connecting digital staffers with big brands like TikTok and Google, and also, you know, fellow digital staffers on the Hill, it's always great to have a great internal network as well. But we're also giving opportunities for staffers to learn and innovate their ways in their office, whether that's franking or best practices on interacting with creators, because we kind of realized. A very long time ago, there's no guide to digital once you start on the hill. It's kind of like you're there and good luck. Like don't fail because there's very high stakes. So we really try to be the backbone of the digital community on the hill. But you know, in terms of how things have changed, I would love to hear from you as like a founder of digital dems. Like I'm sure you kind of look in what we're doing now and it's like rapidly different than than what was
before.
speaker-0: No, absolutely. I think what you guys are doing now are is so much more interesting because you may not feel that way, but a little more leeway than we did when we first started out because at least people recognize that this is a role that needs to exist in the office. I think what saddens me is something you said earlier in this conversation, which is kind of decreased in digital staffers. Since then, just folks aren't hiring for it and whether it's a budget issue or just someone has to go and it's always digital because a comms person can do both, which I think it's unfair to a comms director to do both jobs. So much work.
speaker-1: So much I can't even imagine trying to do both.
speaker-0: my god. And it requires a different part of your brain for both, it's it's just a lot. And so I think that for us it changed because we were just getting started because we were just trying convince people to just have that role exist in the office. And so I love to see where we are now, even though it's not perfect and there'd be some regression, but the fact that this job is something that that exists now. There have been people who have taken on the role, like you, and who have thrived. And you are welcoming people in as they come into the hill 'cause there is no playbook and build coalition with because it can be lonely, especially if you're not an intern before, right?
speaker-1: be quite isolating because it's like you're either in or you're out and it's kinda scary.
speaker-0: So yeah, that's the difference over time. It's just that the role exists. There is infrastructure for it. And there are people still on the hill like you who are making sure that it does still have value and folks are still entering the job, especially post midterms. There's gonna be a lot of hiring. Like you said, digital is important.
speaker-1: Yeah, things have definitely changed for the better, but at a very slow pace. I guess standard for the hill. But you know, maybe let's let's walk like maybe like a little bit faster.
speaker-0: That's why I like to talk to you and why I'm doing the show, this podcast, is because I do want to highlight the people who are doing the work because hopefully that shows the value that you all bring. folks who may not know you spoke about the budgets. How do you know where to spend your money? Like, how do you know, like, you know, you need a tool and to convince your boss? So digital demos will probably help you figure out okay, what tools you need, what equipment you need, who to go to, what studio is more helpful. So that's really sounds like a really nice repository, a coalition for anyone who's coming in cold, especially.
speaker-1: Yeah, budgets are are more of an art than a math, I try to say, because you can figure out the math quite easy. Excel will do that for you. Don't even worry about it. It really boils down to to strategy and what I talked about a little bit before of the creativity and who to reach and when
to reach them and where and crafting your budget backwards is super important. You don't really want to go in and be like, okay, we want to do we want to do meta ads. Okay, why? Who are you reaching? And if you want to reach boomers, I'd say, well, maybe there's a better way of doing that. Maybe let's do a mailer or something like that. Like there are different ways to do that, but you're drafting a budget, it's kind of like ever flowing because like things change, you know, like making it flexible, I think is super important. But your budget should be reflective of your strategy and of your goals and not vice versa.
speaker-0: That makes a lot sense. And that goes into something I want to ask you next, which is about new offices coming into the hill, right? So as your role as communications director for digital dems, what should incoming offices be thinking about after November, you know, the midterms, when new members are staffing up? You know, what does investing in digital from day one actually look like for especially as in your role as digital dems and it comes director in the show?
speaker-1: I think it's a great time to invest in digital. I think we are seeing a lot of folks on the campaign side that are doing great digital. And I'm really hoping that they bring that into their official offices as well. Because that's kind of their strength right now, is their presence on the digital side. And so especially with a lot of staff moving around after November, I think it's really important that if you're building out an office to really start with a senior digital role, especially if you're starting from scratch. let's just insert it from the get-go. And you're like a hire for for day one, hit the ground running. Cause if we're not taking digital seriously, we're gonna get left behind and and left behind in many different regards, not only politically, but behind with our constituency. So give your digital staffer that seat in the strategy room and actually listen to their ideas and and let them Have the member or senator or whoever have an authentic voice online. But in the same boat, I think that also means as digital staffers that we need to start meeting that bar as well. And, you know, whether that means like spending some more time on analytics and like building out those reports or taking extra time to go to trainings and and learning new platforms and in meeting those platform people and really understanding those ins and outs, creating value in that. Cause we can't expect the office leadership to really make those needed strategic changes without their return on investment.
speaker-0: Love that. Actually, want you'll speak more on skills you think they would need because we do talk about how offices aren't staffing up, right? But what would you recommend as a skill that you look for if you're hiring a digital person?
speaker-1: It goes way beyond just being good at social media. What a senior digital person would look like, have that
network of creators that you can lean on. And especially if you don't know who your next member is gonna be, make sure that is a very broad umbrella. So if you're gonna work for a progressive, like go pivot towards those progressive creators and like build out those relationships, or like you're gonna work for a frontliner, because we're gonna have so many frontliners knock on wood that. Come January is that you have those relationships with those influencers as well. And I think also, knowing how to build out a digital strategy, I think it's so easy to say, okay, let's just start, let's just start going. And you're kind of lost, you know? And I think it it plays into the strategy of the office as a whole and like where to plug it in. But that's so important why there should be a senior digital staffer is because that's the thing that constituents are gonna see first, let's make sure it's cohesive with the brand as a whole and also connected to the brand from day one as well. So I think having that under your belt as well. And then the budgeting side, I think making a franking budget is just part of the job. it's not as glamorous, but you just have to do it. And also having the ability to make analytic reports, understanding what's important to your boss and what's not in highlighting what's working and what's not working and and how to pivot and and all that stuff. So, I don't think at a senior l level it's it's more so you're not in the editing booth, you're not editing videos as much. I think we, depending on the office, I think we can lead that to a press assistant or a digital assistant. I agree. But those are nice to have skills, of course, but I think at the senior level it's a little bit more elevated.
speaker-0: And it's not impossible because they that's how the Senate runs a little bit. There is a senior, because I was a senior digital person in the Senate and our press assistant did a lot of like the the editing. I did I still edited, but you still, you have this backup person who is their job is to take first pass. So I love that you said that. So there's a possibility, even though the budgets are different, it's still possible. And number two, you said something about strategy. There is oftentimes for like there's no time to build a strategy because you're often doing tactics and reaction and reacting. Unless you have a bill coming out, an event, you'll do some own promotional work. You said something about analytics, right?
speaker-1: Yeah, it looks different in every single office. I've freelanced enough to know that people have some weird success metrics. People have random ones. so it really is different for each office. And whether if your boss is super data like heavy and like wants that data and wants graphs and and just like the visualization of that, or your boss is like super already in the weeds of social media and kind of already gets it and is just kind of like what's trending? tell me what's trending and and are we hitting those trends? I've seen it all in a bunch of different offices, in in folks that I talk to. And so, success really does look different for everybody.
speaker-0: Okay, my next question to you is the work you are the most proudest of. I'm you know, anything you wanna share with me, something that mattered and was harder than it looked, you know, any chapter, anything from your career, anything that you have done that you're really proud of whether on the hill, off the hill that you wanna share with me and without my audience. Yeah.
speaker-1: I don't know if this is a cop-out answer, but getting onto the hill, super proud of. It is so
speaker-0: A good answer.
speaker-1: much hill battle to get where I am today. And being totally frank, the job market sucks out there. So if you have a job, stay in your job. it was like such a struggle to get to where I am, and like I apply to every single comms job. I getting interviews and doing the interviews and then getting rejections. And it was like, okay, on to the next one. And that was very much like my actor brain in me of you'd always go to auditions as kid and as a kid and you just have to be okay with hearing no as a eleven year old. And it's like, okay, you just move on to the next one. And so I'm extremely like grateful for where I am right now and the work that I gotta do every day and the work that I gotta do with digital dems and in creating a better Hill experience for digital staffers all around. And also that being said, super proud of what's to come from digital DEMs as well. I can't really share too many details. Okay. so definitely stay tuned for all that. But yeah, we're doing a lot of cool and fun, exciting stuff. So maybe ask me again in a year and I'll have a far better answer.
speaker-0: super excited to see what else is coming up this year in the next session. I will ask you something that this show is called approved, right? And so it's I have to ask this question because it's part of the show. Do you have an approval story for us, Julie?
speaker-1: Yeah. Between the time when I was an intern and getting my job on the Hill Now, I did a lot of freelancing and a lot of freelancing with folks that worked in politics and just whatever job I can get to honestly just pay my bills. I don't think they knew exactly what they were doing. They were a startup, so startup mentality, totally get it fine. But every time I would send a version back of a graphic or just a video or an ad that we needed to run, they would literally send back a new mood board that was totally different than the one before. And I was like, Wait a second. Actually, let's revisit this year. So you're not a new business every single day. You are the same business as you were yesterday. So let's kind of lock down on like what the vibe is. and so yeah, it was just like edit after edit. And then there was like a point where it's like, I genuinely think that I'm like, am I being scammed? Like, is this a prank? Like it got that bad. And Not not a super happy ending, or I guess it is a happy ending. I ended up stepping away because honestly, I think a good part of people's career is just knowing when to step away from a a dumpster fire. I think it's a good lesson to learn. Safe to say that I'm really glad where I am right now and that we do move a lot faster than that. And we don't do mood boards every single day. In fact, I don't even think we have a mood board. So I think we're good here.
speaker-0: I really appreciate your story of how you started from being a very creative mind. Then you also care about strategic thinking, which is something often I think we forget to talk about when it comes to digital, especially on the hill when things again are always moving so fast. And I love that you have a business mind. So you have this pragmatic, you know, analytic mindset too that you take to your work. I'm definitely gonna bug you in a year later or sooner about your next steps because I do think you're incredible. You do good work. But yeah, thank you so so much. Any last thoughts for the audience, Julie?
speaker-1: Make digital senior role in 2026 and 2027. And shout out to my board. they're they're also doing amazing work, also all volunteers. So we're we're really put in amazing work in in digital Dems. And if you're a Democratic digital staffer, feel free to join our staff association. We're a lot of fun. And you get to have some fun emails in your inbox for me from time to time. And we just had like an amazing hap happy hour with TikTok. So many creators flew in across the country. So more of that to come. So stay tuned.
speaker-0: Approved, it's hosted by me, Wilsar Johnson. New episodes arrive every other week. If the show is for you, subscribe wherever you listen and pass it to someone who needs their flowers too. See you next time.