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From Enforcer to Enforcing Former NHL Referee Paul Stewart

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WEBVTT 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:30.320 Hey, welcome everybody. 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:31.359 Good to have you back. 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:35.200 This week's guest on the original sports podcast with Mark Meriday. 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.320 We will be talking with Paul Stewart. 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:45.759 Stewart is a formal professional ice hockey player and best known for his work in the NHL as a referee. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:52.240 He was inducted in the United States Hockey Hall of Fame in 2018, and he's the grandson of Bill Stewart. 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:56.719 Stewart played in both the World Hockey Association and the National Hockey League. 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.640 He played with Marc Messier for the Cincinnati Stingers. 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:05.200 His last season of pro hockey was 79 and 80 with the Quebec Nordiques. 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:10.079 After his playing days ended, he had a lengthy career as an NHL referee. 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:17.439 He officiated, check this out, 1,010 regular season games, 49 playoff games. 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:29.519 His most uh cherished uh game he refereed was the 1987 Canada Cup, uh the 1991 Canada Cup, and he also officiated two All-Star Games. 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:35.439 He never wore a helmet during his officiating career, which is also a claim to fame and a throwback. 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:43.200 Uh from the 1994-95 NHL season until his retirement in 2003, he wore number 22. 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:57.439 Uh, Stewart is the men's and women's league director of officiating for the ECAC hockey, and in 2012 also took on duties as a judicial and disciplined consultant to the Continental Hockey League, the KHL. 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:09.599 We're going to talk with Paul about his career as a professional hockey player from playing for the Broom Dusters, where he claims he spent more time in the penalty box than he did on the ice through his time in the AHL. 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:14.879 Uh, we get in depth on his post-playing days and discuss the life of an NHL referee. 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:21.120 Um, we'll also talk to Paul uh about what it's been like since retiring from officiating in 2003. 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:32.960 For his We Just Got a No segment, we'll ask Paul to share some of his uh uh best guys that were his linesmen during his time as an NHL referee. 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:38.319 Hey, welcome everybody to this episode of the Original Sports Podcast with Mark Meriday. 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:46.159 Uh my guest today is uh a really interesting and uh uh insightful uh young man. 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:52.719 Um loved watching this guy referee hockey games, loved following his career when he was younger. 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.280 Uh Paul Stewart, how are you today, Paul? 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:56.479 I'm well, Mark. 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:57.520 Thanks very much. 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.919 And uh we're just anticipating the storm here in Massachusetts. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:03.520 Uh 68 inches. 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:07.840 We're we're supposed to get some we're supposed to get some weather down here in Maryland. 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:11.120 Uh they start closing schools at the mention of it down here. 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:16.560 And me being a teacher, uh, I'm just anticipating that that text come across my phone. 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.000 So um, yeah. 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:19.759 Another thing we have in common. 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:22.800 Uh I I've been a school teacher myself. 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:23.599 Excellent. 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:24.080 Excellent. 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:25.360 What grade do you teach? 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:34.080 Well, I taught middle school for two years, and then I was in the high school and I was a uh substitute, but permanent. 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:50.639 And basically, because of my education, when I was in the middle school, instead of just going from class to class and babysitting, I brought uh a bag of dictionaries and I would hand them out and I would say to the kids, find a word you don't think I know. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:04:04.639 And I'd put it up on the board and I would dissect it by syllables and uh some of the I speak French and I took Latin and and uh the kids, if they stumped me, they they got a free ice cream at lunch. 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:11.439 And we made a great game of it, and I thought it had positive moments and it kept things fun for us. 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:21.759 And then in a high school education, the headmaster handed me a clipboard and the the key and and and the hall pass. 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:23.519 Uh, can you teach this? 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.399 And I looked at the clipboard, I said, I'll see you at two o'clock. 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:32.000 And I came back and he said to me, Um, can you come back tomorrow? 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.439 I I looked in on you and everything seemed to be going okay. 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:37.680 I said, No problem, I'll be here tomorrow. 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.959 He said, We don't get many substitutes that can teach Latin. 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.519 I said, Whennie weedy weeky. 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:46.720 Did you like it? 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:47.920 Did you like teaching? 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:48.480 I did. 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.720 My dad had been a teacher for 37 years at the same high school. 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.040 He only missed 10 days out of all those years. 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:55.759 Holy crap. 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:01.439 He was the football, hockey, and baseball coach and had a lot of uh different types of kids. 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:06.720 It was a very eclectic school, Boston English, the oldest public school in America. 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:13.920 And his uh best athlete was William McDonough, the great sports writer and NFL analyst. 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.560 And uh, as well, he had a guy named uh Leonard Nimoy. 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.759
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Oh, wow, that's pretty he also had uh Lewis Farrakhan. 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:25.839 Oh, no way, yeah. 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.360 So there are a lot of uh different types of kids. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:39.279 I remember growing up with them, and uh it was not worried about diversity in that school because there were all different types and everybody got along. 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:41.920 37 years and he missed 10 days. 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.120 That's amazing, man. 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.519 I 10 days by one injury. 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:47.360 He broke his coccyx. 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:50.560 Uh he fell at Yale, uh refereeing a game. 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:56.000 And back in those days, the referees didn't wear the padding, uh the girdle, or any of that stuff. 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:06.160 They just wore uh worsted wool pants, a cup, maybe, and uh small little shin pads, and a striped sweater and a whistle. 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:07.040 Nice. 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:10.959 So growing up in a hockey family, it must have been exciting. 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.199 Well, I'm not too sure that I ever thought it was exciting. 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:17.759 I just thought it was part of the normal routine. 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:23.759 And yeah, we went uh cyclical from you know, like the salmon swimming upstream. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:37.199 Um, you know, in the late August, my dad would have us come to the school and help him unpack all the football equipment and put put the shoes and the helmets and the hip pads and the cleats and all that on the different shelves. 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:42.560 And then when the kids came in for practice, you know, we would hand them out with a duffel bag. 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:49.199 And uh after that, we would go to this ice cream store called Brigham's and have a frap or a milkshake with ice cream. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:49.439 Yeah. 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.399 And then in the in the winter, right after Thanksgiving, uh hockey would start. 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:58.000 And then in the spring, it was always cold. 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:04.800 Um, I'd be fetching foul balls, chasing them and shagging them down, and he'd give me a nickel apiece. 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:13.439 And uh he had a lot of great players, and some guys went on and played uh college hockey uh football and baseball and hockey, of course. 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:27.759 But he uh my dad was proud of all the kids, and it's interesting because we would go into uh Jimmy's harbor side, and most of the kids, most of the fellows that worked there were Greek, and he would walk in and say, Ah, Sophocles. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:29.439 I said, Dad, how do you know them? 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:42.639 Oh, he was in class of 48, and and and uh Stefanos, uh you know, he was class of 55, and I think his dedication is not seen as much these days. 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.079 No, it's it's I'll be honest with you, it's tough to be a teacher today. 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.959 I I love what I do, I coached forever. 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:54.639 Um, you know, I've done everything I can from my perspective, but it's it's a tough profession today. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:01.680 Uh, I'm sure your dad uh uh was able to develop his relationships differently than we can today. 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:16.480 And there's a lot of reasons behind it, but um I remember those teachers like your dad growing up more so than than the teachers like we basically have today because people are so handcuffed uh with what they can do. 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:19.920 Paul, you played for the Broom Dusters. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:21.519 Yeah, all right. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:22.800 I know you did this. 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:32.159 My father-in-law had season tickets, my brother-in-law uh told me all about your your career there because my wife comes from that Binghamton area. 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.080 Can you talk about that a little bit? 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:38.559 Because I know when you and I originally talked, uh you were the penalty minutes holder. 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:45.120 You I think you told me, I think you said to me that you spent more time in the box than you did on the ice. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:09:04.559 Well, interestingly enough, in 1975, I was a senior at the University of Pennsylvania, and the university had an Ivy League, uh, you know, certainly an Ivy League uh status, and we had a team in Division I ECAC hockey. 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:19.360 But what happened was right in December, the Arabs shut down the oil, and the school, because they had such high-rise buildings, decided that they couldn't operate and heat all the buildings with the oil embargo. 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:28.799 So the school decided on December 13th to shut down the school after the last exams prior to the holidays. 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:34.480 And in the meantime, I had played my sophomore year on the varsity. 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.159 Junior year I practiced every day and never played a game. 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:45.200 In my senior year, I played in three games, and in fact, I was scoring quite a bit and doing well. 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.200 They had moved me up to wing. 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:54.879 And the coach told me, he took his glasses off like this, and said, uh, I'm not going to use you the rest of the year. 00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:10.799 So the oil embargo actually ended up being uh a blessing because I had talked to a few fellows around the rink, one of them, Bob Kelly, the Flyers practice at the rink, and he said to me, Pick the worst team in the worst league and start there and work your way up. 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:15.600 And my mother had given me a book, Up from the Miners, from with Stan Fischler. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:16.960 He had written it. 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:22.559 And I got on the bus,$14, went to Binghamton, got off. 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:30.399 I had a couple
friends, teammates of mine, uh Richie Hart and Steve Sterling, who had played at BU and Richie Hart at BC. 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:32.960 And they got me a tryout. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:38.559 And I went out the first day, it was a uh a rank covered but not enclosed. 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:41.120 Grippin Park was cold. 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:49.679 And uh I remember Kenny Davidson who played at Dartmouth and was Bruins property, said, uh, so kid, you think this is pro hockey? 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:56.720 You know, because here we are out in the outdoors, and guys are smoking cigars and cigarettes, and you know, I'm my eyes are wide open. 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.360 We played the next night against Buffalo Norsemen in the North American Hockey League. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.960 And I got an assist on my first shift at a fight. 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:11.440 Um, and the coach afterwards, Wayne Claremont, said, you know, that guy didn't look out of place. 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:19.600 And a couple the next night we played Johnstown, and of course, that was in the era with the Hanson brothers and Carlson flip-flop. 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:31.279 It's actually the Carlson brothers and Dave Hanson, but um my dance card was full that night, and uh they subsequently signed me to a contract for$250 a week. 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.120 And I I lived in the Skylark motel for a hundred bucks a month. 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.559 Wait a minute, the Skylark is that over yes. 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:42.799 Yeah, that's my beside my wife's family's house. 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.759 Was that her that I was flirting with? 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.000 I kid you not, my friend. 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:48.879 I kid you not. 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.159 That's unbelievable. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:12:01.759 Well, all all of hockey, and a fellow that should have received the Lester Patrick Award for his contribution to hockey in the United States was a fellow that played at Clarkson. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:05.679 He was from Parry Sound, he was Bobby Orr's next door neighbor. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.480 He went to Clarkson, he met his wife there. 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:14.159 Uh his name was Jim Matthews, and he ended up um doing quite well. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:20.720 Uh he owned uh several car businesses, he owned Matco Tool, he owned Matco Electric. 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:31.679 He uh started to work with IBM to to uh recycle computers and all of the you know the the parts and metals that are in it. 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.960 Yeah, clever guy, and he took a liking to me. 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:44.159 And many times the coach, a couple times at any rate, my first year wanted to trade me and he wouldn't let me go. 00:12:44.399 --> 00:13:02.960 And I played 46 games, I had 44 majors for fighting, I had 273 minutes and penalties, but you have to remember there weren't very many American kids playing in the pros, and especially a collegiate kid with with uh a
grotten school education coming off the bus. 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:11.360 We were we were used to hanging with the uh Roosevelts and the Chaunceys and the and the and the Billings and all those folks, the Peabodies. 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:23.279 So I I I was fortunate that Jim Matthews and his wife Judy and and the and the and the coach Larry Kish, Paul Brown was the GM. 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.360 They they all I don't know if they loved me, but they stuck with me. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.159 And they and I I forged my way. 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:41.200 And that spring, I watched Kurt Bennett knock Dave Maloney out on a game in Madison Square Garden, and I wrote John Ferguson a note because he was saying, I'm gonna find some tough guys. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.799 I said, I'm a tough guy, and I went to the Rangers training camp. 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:51.360 And it was ironic because here I was at the University of Pennsylvania, not able to play. 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:58.080 And my first game in the National League, an exhibition, was against the Flyers. 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:21.440 And uh I had a fight uh the first minute, I lasted only a minute, and uh it was interesting because I sort of started to you know prove my point that I could play and I could skate and and that I was a tough kid, and especially in those days in the 70s, you know, the fire set the pace. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:28.240 So I I ended up going to Edmonton and the WHA and I went to Bang back to Binghamton. 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:36.080 I played in the North American League some more than in the American League, and then uh Cincinnati picked me up in the WHA. 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:42.399 I was there for a couple years, and um then Jacques Demares, my coach in Cincinnati. 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.720 Uh, when the NHL expansion draft happened, they took me to Quebec. 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:51.200 So how'd you like playing with Messier? 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:52.320 Didn't you get to play with Messier? 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:53.279 Well, it was interesting. 00:14:53.360 --> 00:15:01.039 Uh, he just had his book come out, and when I was in Cincinnati, I was living in a hotel, and and Mark and I ended up rooming together. 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:06.639 And you could tell he was young, and I took him for his first beer after back then, the drinking age was 18. 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:13.840 And I took him for his first beer, and I went into Sleep Out Louis, a place down near the riverfront stadium in the Coliseum. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.360 And uh, I see this red Porsche out front, and it was Pete Rose. 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:39.759 Oh, and I walk in, and I I knew Pete, and I said to him, Uh, oh, this is Mark Messier, and Mark had on a uh a checkered uh woolen shirt and uh red and black, and he had on um bib overalls, uh jeans, and had on some uh winter boots, and and uh he got up, he met Pete, and he walked into the bathroom. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.679 Pete leaned over and said, Jesus, he looks like he fell off a tractor. 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:52.799 But um you messier only scored one goal that year, and it was interesting, it was against Hartford. 00:15:52.879 --> 00:16:02.559 I was there, he flipped the puck from center right, he skated the bench, he sat down, and by the time the puck hit the net, he was sitting on the bench, he wasn't even on the ice. 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:09.200 And later on in his career, which was very you know noteworthy, he quite a career. 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:17.279 Um he he came over to argue me one night about something, and and I was refereeing, and I said to him, Be careful now. 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.120 I said, or I'll go over the bench and tell him about your first goal. 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:28.000 He was he was quite the player, uh yeah, and I got to play with his brother Paul in the American League as well. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.519 And his father, Doug, of course, uh had been a coach. 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:42.799 And I always say about uh Doug and Paul and Mark that you know the terrific family, but I was always kind of mad at him. 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.879 And the reason was they they never told me they had a sister. 00:16:47.279 --> 00:17:06.559 Oh wow, there you go, and she's kind of cute, but she married a guy named Esposito, and they had they have a son who played at Harvard, and uh I used to see Mark quite often at the Harvard games and uh his sister and her husband and uh Doug and the whole family. 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:21.839 And you know, I I count on my on my hands and I run out of fingers about how many people that I've met and how many people I've had uh interaction with, and how many people I can actually say, Oh, he's a friend of mine. 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:22.640 Yeah. 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:23.119 Yeah. 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:25.680 And I I think Mess is one of those guys. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.759 And Gretzky not too far behind. 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:36.160 Do you think where let me ask you this where does Messier rank in the top 10, let's say the top 10 players in in the league? 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.559 Oh overall throughout the course of time. 00:17:39.039 --> 00:18:04.720 You know, it's an interesting, it's sort of a broad question because of the fact that you have you know a whole uh span of players that you know, from when I was a boy watching the Bruins when Or came up and and they started to televise games, and uh you look at and you look at it at the players that I played with or against in the era, and you look at Bobby Hull and you look at Gordy Howe, and you look, and I played against those guys. 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.200 And of course, when I was a boy, I just watched them. 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:15.279 If I could get a ticket to the garden, because even though the Bruins weren't so good, to get a ticket to go to the games was tough. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:20.480 But you know, my grandfather had been in the
league, and I always managed to somehow find a way. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:55.440 I spent more time watching college hockey, but if you if you're talking about that era from the 70s onward, and maybe even start it in 1970 when the Bruins won the cup, and 71 when when Montreal won, and 72 the Bruins, and then and then you go on from there, and then my career playing against the Islanders, and they won four in a row, and then starting to referee and you know, being in Edmonton and seeing that you know that whole uh that whole hurricane of players that that they had, that whole driving force. 00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:05.519 You know, I I I look at Messier and Gretzky and Lemieux all as the front of the line. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.440 If if life is a buffet, you know, they're the ones that get to start. 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:16.079 And you look at those fellas, and those are just the fellas up front. 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:16.400 Yeah. 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:25.039 And when you look at the guys at the tail and you look at Bork and you look at Chelios, you know, that's a pretty good lineup. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:36.160 And then goaltending, and you look at Fuhr and Brodeur and and Wah, you you have to think, you know, you were lucky to be able to see these guys and be on the ice with them. 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.359 So oftentimes people ask me this question, you know, who is the best you ever saw? 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:50.160 Well, I think Lemieux, Mario Lemieux, was probably the best individual player I ever saw. 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.160 He could carry a team on his own back. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:20:04.720 And a lot of times, and I I now look back on it, you know, we didn't necessarily call as many penalties for the fouls that he was incurring that that we should have. 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:10.079 And, you know, they mugged him a little bit, and but he was so big and strong, he could carry guys on his back. 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.920 And yeah, you know, he'd one hand the puck and he, you know, he had more moves. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:20.000 And then you look at his supporting cast with Jagger and and Stevens and some of those other fellows. 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:26.640 So they he was a guy that made a team individually great. 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:33.680 But Gretzky could take 18 also rants and turn them into a team. 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:47.759 Yeah, and he and and Bork, if you look at the successes that he had over the years, and especially with the Bruins, because they weren't always that talented, he was a commanding force on the ice. 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.160 And he always played a lot of minutes. 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.160 And I I you know I had played against him and then I saw him play. 00:20:54.319 --> 00:21:00.640 And I think that you know, you look at him, and he was playing sometimes 25 to 30, 35 minutes a game. 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:14.559 As a referee, I used to when I saw him double up or triple up and he had to kill a pelling, I always made sure that I was in behind him because those were the only times when he was really tired that he'd ever make a mistake. 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:16.799 He didn't make very many. 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:18.319 He was so unique. 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:29.200 You look at those fellas and you and and you look at the goaltending, and of course, Fure was he was in a different era because the pads weren't the same. 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:34.880 But when you get to Warren Brodeur, not only were they big, but they had bigger pads. 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.359 So, you know, and they played the game a lot differently. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:46.640 When I was a player early in the 70s, there weren't too many goaltenders that could shoot the puck. 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:48.240 Now they all can. 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.440 Yeah, so the games evolved and changed. 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:58.960 And I look at all of those particular players, and just headberg said this to me once how many goals you get in the NHL, and I said, Two. 00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.680 He says for two. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.000 Balls, he said, everybody knows you. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.359 Absolutely. 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:04.079 Absolutely. 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.839 I mean, I mean, your toughness as a tough guy. 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.359 Yeah, yeah, I get that. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:17.440 But you know, my my fondest memories of you as a hockey fan since I was a little kid were more as you commanding the ice as a referee. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.240 You let the guys play, but I enjoyed the way you kept the game in check. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:32.559 That was like one of my favorite things about, and I was a season ticket holder for the Penn back in uh their two-cup era, the the two uh the first two cups, and then I moved away. 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.200 But uh, you know, I you were always my favorite guy. 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.440 It wasn't Frazier or anybody else. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.559 Always loved when you had control of the ice because I knew the game was going to be be a solid game. 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:51.440 And I also knew that when there was some fighting to happen, you'd let them go ahead and tangle a little bit uh until it got to the point where uh let me get this split up. 00:22:51.680 --> 00:23:04.160 I have two two stories about Pittsburgh, and I did always enjoy going in there, and it is one of America's most um lovable and uh American cities of all. 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:17.599 Uh, I think when you come through that tunnel and you and you from the airport and you come or from Green Tree and you come through and you see that vista uh of the three rivers and and the stadium and and the buildings and everything, it's it's impressive. 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.319 And I have a lot of friends in Pittsburgh. 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:33.279 Uh a boy I went to school with Frank Schuy, his father was the the
dressing room manager, and you know, we went to we went to secondary school together, and his dad was always so kind. 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:38.160 And then Chip Burke was the uh the team doctor, and he and I grew up together. 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:47.759 And you know, there were a lot of things like that that that made coming to Pittsburgh fun, but in particular, there are two um stories. 00:23:48.400 --> 00:24:05.119 One night uh in the Staling Cup playoffs, I was the standby referee and I was in the dress room riding the bike, and Wayne Bonnie, the linesman, got hurt, and I'm watching the game on TV and I'm riding the bike to keep my legs warm in case I have to go out. 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:11.119 I had my skates on, and all I needed was a linesman's sweater. 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.440 So I'm walking down the hall and they're taking Bonnie up the hall on a gurney. 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.599 And I said, give me your sweater. 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:32.240 And he did, and I'm putting it on, trying to put it on as I'm walking down the hallway, and the cameraman's zooming in on me, and I'm 30 feet from the ice, and the place is booming and yelling, Stuart sucks. 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:33.519 I get a kick out of that. 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.799 I thought that was a riot. 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:43.039 I said to Gary Bettman later, you think uh taking our names off our sweaters really uh stopped these people from knowing who we are? 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:55.759 And uh the other the other part of it uh was um with Mario uh toward the uh toward the end of his career, he was really hurting. 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:02.640 And he he and Chip Burke had told me that he could barely tie his skates and he was in tough shape. 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:07.039 And I saw him one night and I said, you know, I said, I gotta do you a big favor. 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:08.000 He says, What's that? 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:09.680 I said, I'm gonna toss you. 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:18.000 Well, the penguins were winning, and it was toward the middle or late part of the third period, so it wasn't like you know I was affecting the game. 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:23.119 I said, All you need to do is slam that stick on the ice and just give me the finger in the chest thing. 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.440 And he did, and I I pitched him. 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.160 So uh I went to the dressing room later, and there was a a case of beer waiting for me. 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:56.960 But but the best part of Pittsburgh, and I think a I think a moment that really affected me, and and I tell this story because I've been to Pittsburgh a bunch giving talks for Billy Sweetie and USA Central Central uh America coaches and with Chip Burke and a lot of my other friends uh in the hockey business that live in that area. 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:02.880 I was ref in a game one night in Pittsburgh, and the late great uh Bob Johnson was coaching. 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:13.279 Yeah, and I was
on the uh I was on the end of the ice where the penguins came on, and uh the puck went in the net and I disallowed the goal. 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:22.559 And I'm skating up to the penalty box, to the timer to report the goal, and I just happened to look to the side, and there's Bob Johnson. 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:37.039 And you know, he he he used to take the the paper out of his pocket and write, and he looked over and I our eyes met, and he gave me the same look that my father used to give me when he was disappointed. 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:54.880 It's a coach's look, it's it's it's a it's a parental look, and and somehow between when I caught his eye and I was at the blue line and I got to the red line, I said, maybe you know, I I had second thoughts, and maybe I'm wrong. 00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:04.400 But I went with the call and the play went on, and a little later there's a TV time out, and I just happened to skate over between the two benches. 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:23.119 There was some snow there, and I pretended I was kicking it away, and he walked down the bench area and he was fiddling with the sticks, and he leaned over, and no one in the building but uh Stevie Latton, who was standing there, the trainer, yeah, and and Bob Johnson and myself knew what was said. 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.680 And Johnson leaned over and said to me, Paul, I think you're one of the best referees that we have. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.759 I think you'll see that that wasn't your best call. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:42.000 And he put the piece of paper back in his pocket and walked to the other end of the bench, he made me a better referee. 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:44.240 I'm gonna tell you that. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.559 And that night I went to the hotel Marriott across the street. 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.359 I bet you I didn't get five minutes of sleep. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.920 And I just used to tell that story when I addressed coaches. 00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:05.200 Because if you want to get a referee to think and be better, do Bob Johnson. 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.960 Don't do Bob Knight. 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:07.680 Yeah. 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:16.559 Did you like after you ref games, would you go back and look at them to see, you know, like kind of you know, like did do refs do that? 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:17.839 Do you do that in the offseason? 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:19.039 Do you do that in the regular season? 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:21.839 Like, I don't think people understand this. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:35.119 No, we we would get tape of the games, and later on it became uh DVDs, and you know, of course, we could shove them in our computer, and you'd you know, I I memorized the games. 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:43.599 I I remember the games even now, all these years later, I can still remember moments, plays, who said what, and da-da-da-da-da. 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:57.279 But what's interesting is that when I we we sold our house after 23
years, and one of the one of the heaviest boxes was all that all the all the VCR tapes, yeah, from games all over. 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:01.759 And I did over a thousand games in the NHL, and I have a lot of tape. 00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:17.200 And it's interesting because the greatest game I ever refereed was Canada Cup in '87 with uh game two, double overtime, Russia versus Canada in in Hamilton, Cops Coliseum. 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:40.720 And I disallowed two Russian goals, and at the end, double overtime, Lemieux scored, Gretzky assisted, Gretzky had five assists that game, Lemieux had a hat-trick, and yet I watched that game and I see things that maybe I would have done differently had I seen it quite as much as I see it now on the tape. 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:47.839 But the other part of it is it's interesting because I even did this after my last game ever refereed in the NHL. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:54.319 I looked at the tape and I was saying to myself, you know, I could I could fix my positioning on that. 00:29:54.559 --> 00:30:08.079 And it's when I became a supervisor of officials in the American League for the National League, and then I became the director of officiating for ECAC College Hockey, and then I went to Russia and ran the officiating with the KHL. 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:20.720 I used to talk about positioning selling calls that if you're in great sight lines and you have a feel for the game, you you'll make the call, the correct call. 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:27.759 And and I owe that also to Frank Advari, who said to me one night in an American League game when I was I was young. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.200 I wasn't young as a person, young as a referee. 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:35.119 He said to me, You know, you used to play. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.759 Forget the book, feel the game. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.039 If they did it to you and you'd be pissed off, that's pelling. 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:46.559 If they did it to you, your teammate, and you'd want to go fight the guy, that's a penalty. 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:51.200 And if your teammate did it to somebody and you went, oh my god, what was that for? 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:53.519 That's a penalty. 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:55.759 The rest of it, academics. 00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:01.440 Just you go feel the game, you have an advantage because you played and you played tough. 00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.240 Plus, your father and your grandfather were referees. 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.720 I I don't think that you were talking a lot of football at the Thanksgiving table. 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:20.319 So, you know, that's a look if you had to look back and say this was the most memorable game that I ever officiated, what game do you think you'd pick? 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:30.880 Well, I think that Canada Cup game, because people have said that that 87 Canada Cup game two was the greatest game ever played. 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:34.720 And I had never refereed a full game in the NHL. 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:35.920 Oh wow. 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:50.880 And John McCaulay, glad rest his soul, Wes's dad had great confidence in me, and Scottie Morrison had confidence in me, and Rennie Fazel, the president of the IIHF, who just retired, they he all they all had confidence in me. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:32:08.720 And it's interesting because I I often watch the movie 12 o'clock high, and I remember Frank Savage, the general, saying, the last thing in the world these guys will want to do when they have pride is to let these people down. 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:14.240 Yeah, and the last thing I wanted to do was let those fellas down. 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:30.160 And uh it's unfortunate that Macaulay died because after that uh I I didn't necessarily work for people that had as much care for me as as those fellas had. 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:40.799 And I I survived, I went through a lot of different things, but and it's it's you know something I suppose I even at my age now, I should let it go. 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:56.559 But I'm so competitive that you know bothers me still that I never worked the Stanley Cup Finals, and it's something that'll keep me out of the National Hockey League Hall of Fame because I was a good referee, and I don't have a problem with saying that, and it's not boasting. 00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:03.359 I had a good career despite people that roadblocked me. 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:04.880 Oh, I definitely believe you did. 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.480 I I'm 100% with you. 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:14.640 Uh I gotta tell you that you I'm not kidding, you are one of the reasons I thoroughly enjoy going to penguin games. 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:26.559 I I mean, back in the day, I thought the games would get a little bit uh crazy because you know, you had I don't know, it was just a different game then, and I'd like to talk about that with you. 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.720 How it is I have one more story about Pittsburgh though, and this is a great one. 00:33:30.960 --> 00:34:28.960 I worked back-to-back games with Philadelphia, and it was like um Easter Sunday weekend, and so it was Saturday in Philly afternoon, Sunday in Pittsburgh, and in the third period, um Philadelphia was winning the game, and they were winning by three to one, and um Samuelson was playing for the Flyers, wasn't playing for Pittsburgh at the time, and he clocked the guy with the stick, so I gave him a major pelling with three minutes to go, so that's a five-minute pelling, and then another flyer, and I forget who it was, might have been talking, ran a guy on the sideboards and slipped the elbow up and whacked him into the glass along the sideboards at the spectrum, and uh he took him pretty hard. 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:35.360 The game was on you know, the game of the week Saturday game with NBC, I guess, or whatever. 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.000 So I I got the Flyers, two men down. 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:38.800 Yeah, what do you think?
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:40.159 Pittsburgh, bang, bang. 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:46.559 They tie it, but that five-minute penalty carried into the overtime, and they and the flyer flyers lost. 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:51.840 So they screwed the penguins scored three goals in the last two and a half minutes, if you get my drift. 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:53.760 Yeah, I definitely on power plays. 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.559 So I'm walking off the ice. 00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.360 I think that was it, or it was Pittsburgh, it was the other way around. 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.800 Pittsburgh was winning, and and the Flyers ended up winning. 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:10.079 So it the reason I I forget, I mean, I a lot of game well in my helmet. 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:17.039 But anyway, I'm coming off the ice and the Alt Morganti's there, and he's a good guy, and I know him. 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:23.519 And he said, and here comes the referee Paul Stewart, probably not the most favorite guy in Pittsburgh today. 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.679 And I walked up and I took the microphone from him and I said, if they didn't like me today, they're gonna love me tomorrow. 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.599 I'll be in Pittsburgh at one o'clock. 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.880 Have a nice night. 00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:35.440 I get off that plane. 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.840 I flew to Pittsburgh that night. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.719 I get off that plane and went through the airport, and people were pointing, and you know, I could hear them chatting about me. 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:59.280 So it's kind of funny, but you know, I it it's kind of funny because you know, you develop relationships with guys, yeah, and it was just one of those, one of those moments. 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:08.880 So we go to Pittsburgh the next day, and the two linesmen we go out, we walk around, and we walk out to the Zamboni door, which was the way we had to go on and off the ice. 00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:16.559 Yeah, and I go out, it was Jerry Goce and Pat Tapuzo, and I go out and I skate around and they wouldn't come out. 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:22.880 I'm skating around by myself for the warm-up, and the fans are booing the hell out of me. 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:27.760 I'm out there by myself, two laps after I had screwed the penguins. 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:31.679 I guess I guess that's uh fuel to the fire, though, when you ref that game, right? 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.000 And after a while they forgot about me and went on, you know. 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.760 Yeah, but what's the most vicious fight you had to break up? 00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:43.360 Well, it was funny. 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:50.960 Uh, there was a kid playing for uh Quebec, I think later on he played in Buffalo, but his name was Wayne Van Dork. 00:36:51.280 --> 00:37:01.760 I remember him, and yeah, and uh um kid for the Bruins, um big tough Lyndon Byers. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:10.719 They there was a TV timeout and they were bumping into each other, and you know, the they're they're lined up, but the the lights on and we can't drop the puck. 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.920 And they kept bumping each other and you know, and sticking their sticks up and mouthing off and everything. 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.360 And the linesman turned around. 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.239 I said, I said to the linesman, don't worry about those guys. 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:25.920 And I skated over and I said, When that light goes off, you can beat the shit out of each other. 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:27.039 I don't care. 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.239 So they kept jostling. 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.440 Finally, I said to the linesman, drop the puck. 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:36.719 He goes, the light's not on. 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:38.159 I said, doesn't matter. 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:42.880 Bam! Bias hit him one punch, knocked him flat cold. 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.800 And I thought, I thought he killed him, to be frank. 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.400 I thought he killed him. 00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:52.000 Uh it was one of the toughest punches I've ever seen. 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:57.679 But I was on the ice with guys like Tony Twist and and um you know Probert. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.639 I I was in Chicago one night with Probert, Steele Cup playoff against Minnesota. 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:09.760 And Probert and and I think McCrae, they you know were leaning into each other on the opening face-off. 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:17.039 And I dropped the puck, but instead of facing the timer, I turned around to face them so I could watch what they were doing. 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:30.639 You know, they were behind me, and I turned around and I dropped the puck, and then I stood there and they dropped their gloves, and Probert hit McCrae with a punch, and he hit him so hard he spun him. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:37.039 And when he did, crack! And Probert grabbed and he was about to throw another punch. 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.199 Basil had broken his leg. 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:44.320 And Probert held up and waved to the trainer, come on out. 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:46.480 And he held him up. 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.360 And you, you know, and the player of Minnesota, he was screaming and yelling in pain. 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:52.639 He was in tough shape. 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.239 And when the trainer got there, Basil let him. 00:38:56.480 --> 00:39:03.199 I mean, uh, Probert let him go, and uh he skated over to me and I said, You know, I I I hate to put you in the box. 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:07.360 I said, You you got a lot of class, you know, you held up. 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:16.880 And uh I thought, you know, there were some guys that uh to me I I had a lot of respect for. 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:21.840 And uh he was he was one of them, and Joey Kocher was another. 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:28.159 He was a tough kid, and uh, you know, Pittsburgh had a few tough guys, Philly did.
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:40.480 It was, you know, because I had been that guy, and I know what it was like to sit on the end of the bench and then get that shift here or there, and you know, things changed though with McSorley. 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:50.800 Sometimes players who come in with heavy baggage and expectations uh were players that I didn't necessarily jive with. 00:39:50.960 --> 00:40:08.880 And yet on the flip side, there were players like uh Gretzky and Sakik and and Bork and others that and Messier and and uh and and others that you know that we we just had that unspoken relationship. 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:16.639 I can tell you basically, I I I very rarely ever talked to Gretzky, I very rarely uh ever talked to Bork. 00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:29.519 He would come over to me and talk to me, and I was a guy that felt that my ability to communicate saved teams a lot of penalties because I would feel the game. 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:56.559 Theo Flore is a guy in particular that I remember that played on the edge, and he had to because he was small, he was a tiny and he, you know, he's running into Shell Samuelson who's 6'8, and Shell Samuelson's elbow is exactly right at Theo Flurry's head height, and you know, they'd they'd bump into each other, and Theo would be yelling about getting elbowed, and Shell would be yelling about getting slashed, and I'd skate over and say, Do you feel better? 00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:57.760 You feel better? 00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.119 Whoa, what does that mean? 00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:03.519 I said, Well, you you slashed him and he elbowed you, so I hope you feel better. 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.360 But if I have to come back and babysit you, I'll just take you guys off the ice. 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.760 You can sit over there and and stare at each other. 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.360 How about Cicerelli? 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:30.159 I I I used to go to uh Minnesota when he was playing for the North Stars, and I used to tell him, because I admired his guts, he had a lot of guts, and he went into the slot and he was in the goalie's face, and he was a tough kid and uh not big. 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:33.679 And I used to tell him, Dino, green lights on tonight, baby. 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:40.480 Help yourself, you know, and as long as he wasn't using his stick, he was okay with me. 00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:48.159 The guy that I really, if I, you know, if I could say to my son, play like that guy is Scott Stevens. 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:53.360 Because I thought he was the epitome of toughness, but he also could play the game. 00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:02.239 And he, you know, in all the years that he was a player, I think he had 18 years, uh, and I refereed just about that many years. 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:04.960 Um, I never penalized him. 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:25.199 And one night a player on his team in Jersey sits on to me and I banged the guy for deuce, and uh, and the kid sat down in the box, and and and
Stevens came out and he said to me, Um, come on, Stu, you know, we're really trying to win this game, and you know, I can't we can't afford this penalty. 00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.039 I said, Well, this guy said to me that I was a buh-buh buh. 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.159 I said, We've been together what 16, 18 years. 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:34.000 I said, Do you think I'm a ba-ba-ba? 00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.599 And he said, Is that what he said? 00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.800 He skated over to the box and he started screaming at the guy. 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:43.519 And the kid came to me later on at a at a charity function and apologized. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:50.880 So I think Stevens had a lot of that stuff that I talk about, class, toughness. 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:52.400 I I appreciated him. 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:57.760 And I when he played hard, I just say to him, keep the stick below the numbers, you know, in the low back. 00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.559 I don't mind that. 00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.559 Below the elbow, you know, don't be breaking their arms. 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.719 And and um, you know, he was a he was a great contributor. 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.119 And speaking of am I right, Stevens? 00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:16.559 I'm not sure if he got 20, but you know, he's like to me, he was played in St. 00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.039 Louis, played in Washington, and played at Jersey. 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:24.639 And I just think he was just a a really solid, tough. 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.920 He's a guy that you could build a hockey team on, you know. 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.599 Yeah, he was a lot of in a lot of ways like potfinn. 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:37.440 Although potfan might have been a little bit more skilled as far as puck handling and such, but sure. 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:43.760 I I I I think Stevens was the type of guy that you know he had the whole package in my mind. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:56.159 And you you know, you could take a team like uh any team that that needed a solid leader, and you put him in there and he would he would turn that team around in my mind. 00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.519 You think that type of leadership is gone from the game today? 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.280 The game is so different. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:03.119 Like the game is different, Paul. 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.880 Let's cut right through the bullshit. 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:06.800 The game is definitely different today. 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:19.119 And well, I think that there tends to be, you know, I see this kid in Edmonton, Conor McDavid, and you know, he's got what 35, 40 points in 20 games or something. 00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:23.360 And you know, he's he's a player, but the game's different. 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:37.599 But they always saddle those guys with the leadership role because they're the guys that have to come to the to the to the fore when you know things are tough, and the players on the bench look for that player to do to do that. 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:44.559 And I, you know, a lot of times people will ask me a question, they'll say, Who is the toughest guy you ever saw? 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:53.440 Well, if I told you some of the games and names of of players that I saw in in particular games, you know, you'd you'd say, really? 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.599 I mean, he he couldn't fight. 00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:58.800 You didn't ask me if he could fight, you asked me who was tough. 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.960 I think Joe Sackick was about as tough as anybody I ever saw. 00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.840 And I think Paul Carrilla was a very tough kid. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:12.079 Yeah, because they they played and they went into traffic and they took the hits. 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:19.920 And they Rick Middleton is another guy that I think he's a solid guy. 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:24.719 I've known him since he was playing in Providence uh Ranger property. 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:30.400 Uh, I I've seen him over the years, I've been on the ice with him and off the ice with him at events. 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:39.840 And I just think that had I, I I almost was the general manager, or I was a finalist for GM job in Boston way back. 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:46.559 And I told the ownership, and this was about the time that they put in the shootout. 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:55.280 I said, if I was the general manager of this hockey team, the first guy I'd sign would be Rick Middleton, only to sit on the bench for the shootouts. 00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:01.119 Because he he could stick handle in the phone booth, you know, he had more moves than a can of worms. 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:07.679 So I just, you know, to me, you know, they have guys that teach kickers how to kick. 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:16.239 He would have been a great coach to teach players how to do breakaways because you couldn't hire Gretzky to do it, his his track record wasn't so good at it. 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:23.039 But although I did give him one or two along the way, I used to love to call penalty shots. 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:28.320 You think uh let's talk about this rivalry here, Crosby and Ovechkin. 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:34.480 Is that actually a rivalry, or we got a goal scorer and a more of a complete player there? 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:45.039 Well, I think if you liken it to a rivalry, then you're missing the point about what each has as far as their impact on on the game. 00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:52.960 You look at at those two fellas, and I equate them more to a Sherman tank and a Porsche. 00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:02.719 And you look at Crosby and he's he's not gonna run you over, although he he can take a hit, you know, and he'll get a dent here and there, and he's more the Porsche. 00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:18.320 But you look at Ovechkin and he can score goals, but his physicality is in that likelihood of conversation with Phil Esposito. 00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:23.440
He's a guy that can dominate the slot and he can dominate the corners. 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:29.760 And wherever he decides to play, if you're gonna beat him, you gotta bring a little extra to the table. 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:44.639 And I, you know, I look at Crosby and I see, you know, the beginning of an era where I think the league started to really adopt that preferential treatment of stars. 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:49.920 You know, Lemieux complained about it, but I don't think it ever really happened as much for him. 00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:58.400 And then you had Jagger, you could hit him with a with a telephone pole and he'd just smile, laugh, and keep skating with the puck. 00:47:58.559 --> 00:47:59.199 You know. 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:05.199 So I think it's it's you're talking two different animals, yeah. 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:09.119 And you appreciate each one for what they do. 00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.320 I mean, you hear you hear that a lot about those two. 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.480 And I I don't see a comparison. 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:24.719 What I should what I should have said was a goal scorer and a more of a 200-foot player, um, but because he could because he does play 200 feet when he plays Crosby. 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:33.840 But I I see what you're saying, though, in terms of uh uh starting to give the guy who who's a superstar a little bit more uh leeway. 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:36.400 Go let's go back to Connor McDavid. 00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:39.519 I I actually like Dry Seidel better than McDavid. 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:42.000 I like Dry Seidel's game. 00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:46.320 You know, it's an interesting thing. 00:48:46.719 --> 00:49:10.320 If you think about stars, for instance, and you think about different people that they end up being married to, you like blondes, I like redheads, and you know, every team, for instance, the Bruins, the fans around here like guys that sweat. 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:20.239 Yeah, and they like they like that whole that whole Don Cherry lunch pail philosophy and the big bad Bruins and all of that. 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:32.639 Yeah, so they I don't think that the people of Chelsea and Somerville and and Dorchester and South Boston have changed that much in what they like. 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:39.519 And I think individually, each team, for instance, who the crack and like, who knows? 00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.320 It's still to be developed and still to be seen. 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:52.400 But you look at individually other different teams, you know, Edmonton likes that that high, fast-paced game that's skilled. 00:49:52.639 --> 00:50:00.719 And you look at other different teams, and you know, you look at Chicago, and and they relied upon one or two guys, but great goaltending. 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:01.360 Yeah. 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:09.840 So I think everybody has their flavor, everybody has their modus operandi, who how they operate. 00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:14.880 You know, I think like one of the storied franchises in the NHL has been Montreal. 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:20.079 And I just think in the last few years, they've been a franchise that really hasn't had an identity. 00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:23.920 They're they're not sure who the GM is, they're not sure who the coach is. 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.000 They they you know, they bounce back and forth. 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:26.880 Are we French? 00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.000 Are we not French? 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:29.519 Can we get an English guy? 00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:42.000 I mean, I I sit there and I, you know, I just say, you know, you're the Canadians, and the Canadians are always a big, strong, fast, you know, team with skill. 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:44.000 So go find those players. 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:44.480 Yeah. 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.199 And that's to me what it's all about. 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.280 I talk I spoke to a GM the other day. 00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.280 We were talking about scouting. 00:50:51.599 --> 00:51:06.159 And I said to him, and I said this to a few college coaches too, you know, you folks are in particular too fussy about what kind of leagues you scout and where you find players. 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:11.039 And I said, Who in God's name scouted Marshall? 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.119 I mean, he's one of the top scorers in the league. 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:17.519 Yeah, and he's a guy that's an impacting player. 00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:19.119 But where was he drafted? 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.960 Number four, number five, and he was a pain in the ass. 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:23.920 Yeah, right? 00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.039 So you look at him and go, the hell did he come from? 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:28.880 I got another guy, Marty St. 00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:29.440 Louis. 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:31.119 He's in the hockey hall of fame. 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.000 He came from no place as far as his ability. 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:40.880 Yeah, he was in college, but when he showed up to the University of Vermont, nobody gave him a chance to play. 00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:42.800 He just made it on his own. 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:55.280 And I think that in hockey today, we're too worried about specialists, we're too worried about uh, you know, the the hype and and all that. 00:51:55.519 --> 00:52:01.840 And instead, and the secret is, and and somebody said this to me, and I think his name was Jean Bellevaux. 00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.360 He said to me, There's one thing about you, Paul. 00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.880 He said, They may not like you, but you can skate. 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:12.320 And I could skate, and it was something I always worked on. 00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:33.039 And I think the secret to anybody who's listening to this podcast, if you have a child or someone that wants to go on in the sport, regardless of their position, or if they even become a referee, you've got to be able to skate and use your
edges and turn and do everything without thinking about it. 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:35.679 And if you can do that, they'll never cut you. 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:37.280 Telling you that right now. 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:42.639 And I can name you 10 guys that could really fly who couldn't put the puck in the ocean. 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:48.719 But they somehow they they stayed on teams and they and they made it from college to pro. 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:52.400 I I I could think one right now off the top of my head is Carl Haglin. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.360 Yeah, I mean, he can skate like hell. 00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:57.679 He can he can he can move. 00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.320 Let me ask you this question. 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:06.559 Who do you think is doing the best job in terms of coaches currently? 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:11.039 Because you just been such some good guys out there right now. 00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:17.039 You, I mean, uh I'm seeing some guys do some things with teams that are that are surprising to me. 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:24.880 Well, it's interesting because it's been such a hodgepodge, you know, and and I'm a traditionalist in some senses. 00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:28.159 And a lot of people would say, Well, you were a referee. 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.400 I always liked Tortarella. 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:45.920 I always thought, you know, he was he was a guy that you could reason with and he made reasonable points, even though, you know, he, I mean, let's face facts, if you don't have a vowel on the end of your name and you don't use your hands, you're not really Italian. 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:50.400 And that guy epitomized the whole thing to me. 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:57.039 And you know, I I kind of enjoyed his whole and I understood him. 00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:13.760 And, you know, I think that, you know, having been on the ice with Keenan and Pat Burns and Pat Quinn and Scottie Bowman and all those fellas that are, you know, certainly legendary coaches and legendary names, you know, each one had their own particular style. 00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:20.000 But I think coaching today is a different animal than it was even 10 years ago. 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:24.559 When you look at Clause Julienne, you know, here's a guy that had a lot of bus time. 00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:32.559 He played in the minors, he played in the majors, he's been around the you know, with the Stanley Cup and all that other stuff, right? 00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:38.559 Yeah, but you know, they dumped him out of Boston, they dumped him out of Montreal. 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:40.159 Where's he gonna end up next? 00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.159 You'll you'll get Toronto. 00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:43.519 I mean, it's a sideshow. 00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:46.800 Who's behind the bench now? 00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:51.199 And who's gonna, you know, it's and they pay all these guys all that money. 00:54:51.360 --> 00:55:06.320 So I can't really honestly answer your
question because in this day and age, I think these guys that call themselves coaches are more door openers, they open the door, the point they don't have any control over the players. 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:12.239 Players play their own way, they may have a system, but they they go off the rails quite often. 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:16.079 And that's part of what I think is missing. 00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:31.440 I had a coach say to me about recruiting a player for his school, and he said to me, I'm looking for a quarterback type defenseman that can take my power play and and you know and score. 00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:34.800 And I said, Well, if you find one, it's gonna be a freshman. 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:40.480 And he's gonna go through all the stuff that freshmen go through, unless he's an individual beyond belief. 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.679 And if he's an individual beyond belief, he's not going to your school. 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.599 He's either gonna play pro or he's going to Division I school. 00:55:47.920 --> 00:56:05.199 Long story short, I said, my grandfather coached the Hawks, and when he had a power play, he put a solid defensive defenseman on one point, but he put a fast and really clever left wing on the other point. 00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:07.920 And Cully Dahlstrom. 00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:12.480 And he put him there for speed and puck handling ability. 00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:17.039 And he had the defensive guy able to cover for him if he made a mistake. 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:22.960 So I think you know, you the games changed to the point now that you don't have particular players. 00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:30.639 They all have to be able to turn and skate backwards, and they all have to be able to play not only the offensive, but also the defensive game. 00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:38.719 And in some senses, with the with the red line out and the size of the players and the sticks and how things are done now. 00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:42.639 Um if you're not an offensive team, forget it. 00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:48.000 But defense and good goaltending is still, and and Lulu Amarello keeps proving it. 00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:50.000 Start in the net and work out. 00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:53.199 Yeah, you you miss you miss being on the ice. 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:55.039 You miss being on the ice, Ruffin. 00:56:56.559 --> 00:57:00.079 You know, that's a question that I'm often asked. 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:14.719 And I think, you know, we all have like when you back in the old days, we would go to the pleasant cafe and we would get a quarter and put it in the jukebox, and we got three plays. 00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.599 And you know, we all have that many plays. 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:26.480 And I I'm not at all bitter or or longing for the good old days. 00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:29.199 I, you know, I I had a pretty good career. 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:39.280 And when I go up and downstairs, I know I can remember all of the injuries and the illnesses and all the things I had to combat to stay on that ice. 00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:42.559 So I don't miss that part of it. 00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:50.639 What I miss is I miss going out on the ice and seeing the people because I used to love to be out there. 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:55.840 And I and I tell people all the time, find a picture of me when I'm on the ice and I'm not smiling. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:59.199 Because I enjoyed myself with the players, with the coaches. 00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:01.360 I used to like the kibbots with them. 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:07.280 And and to me, and a lot of people forget this, it's a game. 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:09.760 So enjoy it. 00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:11.119 It's entertainment. 00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:11.519 Yeah. 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:17.599 And you you you want to have people, and Gretzky and I talked about this. 00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:22.000 You want to have people say when you leave that he could still go. 00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:26.159 You don't want to have them say he should have gone. 00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:40.719 And I like to think that that as much as I miss those parts of the the life, the travel, certainly the paycheck, and other different things, I I I miss the people the most. 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:54.719 Going, you know, I made a lot of friends like with Bellman and and and cab drivers and and the front office uh at the hotel and all those I you know, and the rental car people, and you know, I get to know a lot of people. 00:58:55.280 --> 00:59:03.280 And and you you you go in and you see the Zamboni driver, or you see the kid in Pittsburgh that used to sell the beer and he'd wave that top. 00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:05.039 Oh, yeah, I know the guy you're talking about. 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.039 Yeah, you know, and and he used to. 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:08.800 We had a game going back and forth. 00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.639 He'd boo me and I'd I'd I'd act like you me? 00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:13.920 You're you're mad at me? 00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:17.039 I ran into him one night. 00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:19.119 I said to him, I'm the best thing that ever happened to you. 00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:19.920 He says, Why is that? 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.360 I said, people get pissed at me, they throw their beer right on the ice. 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.760 I said that I said that to Illich one night. 00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:29.760 I said, You should have me referee here every night. 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:32.159 I said, I'm good for 30 or 40 pizza. 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.039 You know, it's yeah, I can see why they miss you. 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.559 That's the teacher in you, though. 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:49.840 Let me tell you, that's the that's the guy who gets in front of the classroom of uh what 20, 30,000 people, 15,000 people, and you entertain them, but you do it in a different way. 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:51.599 You're still educating them. 00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:55.039 Uh I
can see, I can see how you were a teacher, though. 00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:56.559 Hey, I do this last segment. 00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.079 It's called We Just Got to Know. 00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:05.039 Man, you've worked a ton of NHL games, you worked uh the Canada Cup games, you've worked with a lot of different linesmen. 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:15.280 Tell me, uh, let's say the three best linesmen you ever worked with, the guys you you enjoyed uh uh lining up with on the ice and doing your job. 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:22.800 Well, it's it's tough to say because not only did we work together, but we became friends. 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:31.599 Yeah, those guys are the reason I if I was a good official, they helped me and they got me into the hall of fame. 01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:42.639 And I can't think of people that I wish I see more of, and I don't because we're spread out and we're all over the world. 01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:54.800 But sure, you know, I always like to think that when the day comes and my dark hour arrives, that at least six of them will show up and not charge me to carry me out of the church. 01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:58.880 I'm sure they'll be saying some good stuff. 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:00.559 I don't have to rent them. 01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:04.079 Hey, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast, man. 01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:05.599 This has been incredible. 01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:11.360 I want to thank you for everything you've done for hockey and for just making me a huge hockey fan. 01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:20.800 There are certain people, like I said, that that along the way, you as a referee, Lemieux as the player he was, that have just made me so passionate about it. 01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:23.199 In fact, my son plays ice hockey. 01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:26.000 I didn't have a rink around basically growing up. 01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:32.480 My son plays ice hockey, and uh it's a thrill for me every time we get to go to that rink and I get to watch him play. 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:39.440 And uh uh part of the reason is my passion that I've gotten from from uh guys like you. 01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:40.480 So thanks a lot. 01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:55.760 And um I well it's the one thing, it's the one thing that uh I think you take away from the Montreal Canadian dressroom, and it's to you from failing hands the torch is past. 01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:59.840 And you ask me if I miss playing or refing. 01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:03.679 I I still have a lot to give. 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.960 I just can't skate that way anymore. 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:19.920 And I just physically am not able, but I I can tell you I can still think the game and I can still help a lot of kids, and I now I concentrate on helping kids skate, get skates. 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:25.599 Uh I think Willie O'Reilly is one of my favorite heroes of uh, and he's a hero. 01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:27.519 Willie O'Reilly's a hero. 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:48.800 And what
he had to encounter as a player, and you know, his physical uh disability with only one eye and all that, but what he's done for the game and how how he's been, and I've known him for a long, long time, and seeing kids skate, to me, that's the thing that gives me the biggest smile. 01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:56.960 Politics and religion aside, yeah, seeing kids have a chance to skate and play. 01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:16.559 And I see the young ones, and I I I used to go out with the young referees and break them in and uh, you know, working working mic games, helping the kids over the boards, and and you know, and I had refed in the NHL, but to me, it's all hockey and it's been a pretty good ride. 01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:18.159 I appreciate you. 01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:19.039 I do. 01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:24.800 If I ever get up there with my boy to play in that area, I'm gonna make sure I track you down so you can see him play. 01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:29.360 You uh make sure that that guy keeps working on his skating. 01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:31.519 We will and tell him the secret. 01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:36.639 The secret is if you can skate, you'll never get cut. 01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.639 I will definitely tell him that. 01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:39.760 Thanks again, Paul. 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:41.119 I appreciate your time. 01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:42.239 Happy New Year. 01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:43.519 Yeah, happy new year. 01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:44.320 Take care. 01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:45.840 Incredibly awesome stuff. 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:56.400 I'd love to thank Paul Stewart once again, uh, former NHL referee and former uh professional hockey player for coming on the original sports podcast with Mark Meriday. 01:03:56.480 --> 01:04:03.760 Hey, you can find Paul on Facebook at PStuCat22 and on Twitter at Paul Stewart22. 01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:10.559 Hey, connect with us here on the original sports podcast with Mark Meriday by checking out our website, apps, and stuff like that. 01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:13.760 Uh, you can see our website, original sportspodcast.com. 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:15.840 It has all of our episodes on it. 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:24.400 And we're always looking for you to uh maybe buy something out of our store and help support the the ongoing podcast as we continue to grow. 01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:30.719 Uh, like our Facebook page, join our conversation on Twitter, uh, reach out to us on Snapchat, all of that. 01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:32.880 You can find us at OSP with MM. 01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:42.320 You can also follow us on Instagram, watch our TikToks, and see us on YouTube at Original Sports Podcast. 01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:51.599 Hey, feel free to let us know if you have any comments, questions, suggestions, uh, some negative feedback, some positive vibes, whatever you got. 01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:57.039 Uh, you can reach out to us on our Gmail con at original sportspodcast at gmail.com. 01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:15.440 I want to thank our audio engineer, Sean Ankoviak, our voice intro, which is done by Matt Noble, our intro and outro music, which has been provided by Ryan Benton and Preston Harper, uh, our social media guy, can't do it without him, William Franciscus, uh, our webmaster, Terry Meriday. 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:22.079 Join us each week to experience the O on the original Sports Podcast.
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