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There was a sink of people.
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There is an assistant.
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Before we get into the nitty-and-gritty.
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Hello everybody and welcome back to Split Screen.
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My name is Kyle Clark.
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And I'm Angelica Clark.
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And this is a podcast where we do deep dives in the minds and lives of horror movie villains, suspense thrillers, and true crime stories.
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And I am a licensed clinical therapist, and I will be psychoanalyzing the main characters of whatever movie, book, or TV show that we are discussing.
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All right.
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So I know it's been a long time since we've uploaded an episode, mainly because I had oral surgery.
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I don't know if you can hear in the podcast, but they pretty much removed like 97% of the teeth in my mouth.
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And so I'm still trying to learn how to talk with dentures.
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And uh we'll post pictures of stuff about it on our Instagram so that you guys have an idea of what's going on.
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And so why I sound different all of a sudden, that's because of that.
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If you've listened to the last couple of episodes that we've been doing, we've been doing a series on A24 films, and this is our finale of that series for A24.
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Let me set a tone for you.
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You ready?
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Ready?
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Imagine you're trapped on a jagged-toothed rock miles off the coast of New England.
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The year is 1890.
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The rain isn't just falling, it's stinging your face like needles.
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The wind is screaming, and every 60 seconds, a mechanical beast of a foghorn tears through the night, rattling the fillings in your teeth.
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Which I no longer have.
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You haven't slept in days, your clothes are soaked in coal dust and salt.
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Your boss is a tyrannical, flatulent old sea captain who won't let you near the top of the tower.
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And your only companion is a cycloptic seagull that seems to be mocking your very existence.
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Welcome to the edge of sanity.
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A24's The Lighthouse.
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So what was your initial thought on this film when we started getting into it?
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Well, I mean, we we this is another one of those where we seen it multiple times.
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I had the same feelings about this that I've had about several of the A24 films that we've talked about already, like Mid-Sumar, Hereditary.
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Um, I didn't like it the first time.
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I didn't understand it the first time.
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I thought it was very weird and slow, but I'm kind of uh getting used to that being just kind of the theme of A24 at this point.
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But I also really like Willem Defoe and Robert Pattinson, so I was willing to give it another shot.
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Well, and in my opinion, this isn't like it's not just a movie, it's an assault on the senses, and it's shot on real 35mm film in a suffocating square box aspect ratio and presented in stark high contrast black and white that feels like it was dragged straight out of 19th century, which is what Robert Eggers, the director of the film and A24 who produced it, that was what they were going for.
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See, I didn't uh realize that.
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That's kind of cool.
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Beneath the surface of this movie, though, uh, it's like a fever dream that lies a massive, brilliant puzzle.
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And like I thought I was confused watching Bo is Afraid.
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And there is like 70% less of the crap going on in this film, and I was all over the place.
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I feel like the movie was kind of all over the place.
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Now that I've seen it a couple of times, it makes more sense.
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Especially when you like talk about or like you look it up and what the meaning of it is.
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You want to talk a little bit about the Greek mythology of the movie?
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So just like with any A24 film, there is so much going on in the background that like you're not understanding the first time you watch it, or the second time, or maybe the third time, maybe the first time you're like, screw it, I'm gonna go ahead and Google what this meant, just like like a movie um called Mother.
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Oh god, yeah.
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Um which we might do in the future, who knows?
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But Robert Eggers and his brother Max wrote this film with a heavy classical mythology kind of spectrum in mind.
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And they start talking about like Prometheus.
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Okay, for those of you who don't know who Prometheus was, he stole the fire from the gods, and he was punished by having his liver eaten by an eagle daily.
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And Winslow, Robert Pattinson's character, could be the Prometheus of this story, along with Proteus, the shape-shifting old man of the sea who guards divine knowledge.
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Wake, Willem Dafoe's character.
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And like, but he's the you know, the he Willem Defoe, the gatekeeper, he is constantly
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shifting um personalities.
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He's also constantly on Robert Pattinson's character of doing everything around the lighthouse apart from tending to the light.
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Yeah, that's his job.
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The film does a really good job of portraying what it's kind of like for two men to be stuck on an island like this for for these two gentlemen.
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Their tour on the lighthouse was supposed to be for, was it four or six weeks?
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Uh, I think it was six.
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Which, I mean, think about it, you know, even a month on an island with another person doesn't sound that bad, right?
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Watch the film.
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Tell me that every second you're staring at that screen, you don't have a little bit of anxiety of being almost outcast to this island, and now you're stuck with this old man who does nothing but scream, fart.
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He at one point has sex with his bed.
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There's just there's so much going on.
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Well, it's interesting you brought up the sex with his bed thing, because when I was doing my little research for the movie, there is speculation that there are homosexual themes.
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Like if you notice, they kind of watch each other being intimate with themselves, if you catch my drift.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, because Winslow was looking at Wake through the the hole of the roof for an extended period of time.
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And then, yeah, vice versa.
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They looked at each other.
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But I mean, you gotta think back then that was a big no-no.
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But they're also their relationship is super weird.
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Like they go from they're almost like a married couple.
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Like, I don't know if you noticed, but they kind of switch roles sometimes.
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Like Winslow does all the hard work, heavy lifting, the cleaning, stuff like that.
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And then Wake does all the cooking, and then they sometimes switch roles.
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Like then Wake becomes the like the drunk husband almost, but then also the wife at the same time because he's trying to tell Winslow what to do and how to do it, and then he's doing it wrong.
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So I don't know if that's just coincidence, but I found that to be kind of interesting too.
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And I also kind of felt like the constant um put down that berating.
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Yeah, though that Winslow goes through is almost like I feel like Wake was like conditioning him, like almost breaking him down so that he could have somebody that will do and say anything that Wake wants him to do.
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And through the film we kind of find out what happened to his last what what do you call them?
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Partner, maybe?
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Yeah, I guess we can do it like that.
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Yeah, his last partner um apparently went crazy.
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And he makes an appearance in the film, but I think he kind of makes an appearance in the film a lot more than the moment his head is shown on screen after Winslow fishes him out of the bay.
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This is gonna kind of go into the third character, in my opinion, of this film.
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You have Winslow, you have Wake, and like I mentioned in the beginning, you have a cycloptic seagull who comes around often enough, and it's I I think the seagull is almost like a reincarnation of Wake's past partner trying to warn Winslow that Wake is crazy.
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Yeah.
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Which he kind of is.
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But also, didn't it talk about how his old partner something happened to his eye?
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And then you see the seagull with a missing eye.
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Almost like saying that the seagull is almost like the reincarnated version of his previous partner trying to like almost like warn Winslow in a way.
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Yeah, and Robert Pattinson's character towards uh maybe three-fourths through the movie ends up brutally killing the seagull after Wake has discussed with him on more than one occasion that it's bad luck to kill a seabird.
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Yeah.
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And that's where the superstition with Wake starts to come through as well, where he's the old man of the sea, and the sea was always calling for him.
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Winslow goes, tries to get to know Wake, and like, do you have family?
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Do you have did you ever have kids?
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And um ends up Winslow isn't Winslow, he's somebody else, and he's on the run trying to start a new life.
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But I mean it's 1890, so you really can just kind of disappear and start again, and nobody would bat an eye.
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And he's just trying to make a decent wage, and you know, he's throughout the film he's discussed that he's pretty much a jack of all trades.
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He's not a master of one thing, he's just really good at everything.
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And then we have a scene where Winslow can't sleep, and he walks up to the lighthouse, and all of a sudden Wake is butt naked, and a huge tentacle is involved.
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And yeah.
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Um, I believe the subtitles even said squelching seconds.
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Oh, yeah, it did.
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It absolutely did, which grossed me out.
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So but that's that's A24, because for all we know, Winslow could have been hallucinating all that.
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What there's a drink that they're constantly drinking.
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What is it?
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Turpentine and honey.
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So turpentine essentially is a paint thinner.
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And back then, people would use turpentine and honey as almost like a cough suppressant, but it was also very poisonous and they didn't realize it was poisonous.
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So that in my opinion, I think them starting to drink the paint thinner with the honey is when their brains started to spiral.
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That's when they started to hallucinate, they started to get paranoid because that was kind of their last resort.
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They ran out of alcohol, their rations were going, you know, were lowering, I guess, or they were not having as they didn't have as many rations.
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And that's when they started to feel ghost or crazy.
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Well, it's it's also because of they're supposed to be there for a certain period of time, and this massive storm hits and will not stop keeping them there for who knows how long.
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We don't know.
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Yeah, we don't know.
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It could be weeks, it could be days.
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To to them, it's it's a lifetime.
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But my question is, was all of this real?
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Was all of this really happening?
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There's mermaids involved as well.
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I don't know if we've mentioned that.
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Um and like there's some sort of sanity in the beginning, but then toward the middle and the end, it's almost like he just goes cuckoo bananas and just loses his shit.
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So my my question is, do you think that any do you think all of this is actually happening, or do you think that it is in their heads?
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I definitely think that the relationship that these two men have is real.
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Okay.
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I think the lighthouse is real.
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I think the work and the stress and the pressure of it is real.
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Everything else, I feel like, is just a representation of being alone on an island, isolated, isolated, sexually frustrated, and you're drinking something that is essentially poisoning you.
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No telling what that does to you.
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But both of these men had already come to this island bringing baggage with them.
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Yeah.
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Especially Wake.
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And the understanding that his last partner died on the island, and it's just it is a mess.
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Well, I think it's good to mention too that Winslow also came with baggage where I mean, do you remember what happened to his last employer?
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He uh he killed him, didn't he, with a saw?
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Like when he cutting down trees or something?
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Yes.
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He did kill him.
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And I almost feel like this was a punishment for him was to be with another because Wake is is his employer.
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I mean, that's his boss.
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And so for him to be put in another position where he's almost being punished for the d death and the the murder, essentially, of his last boss by being put in this position with someone who is mean and hateful and drives him crazy.
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And it's almost like his guilt is being manifested by Wake.
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This is like the manifestation of his guilt for killing his boss.
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Now he's getting punished by having to be stuck on an island with someone who is like his I mean, his last boss that he killed.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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And I think that yeah, I mean the trauma for both of them.
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But then, you know, Wake talks about his family and Winslow talks about not really having a family.
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Like they almost complement each other in that way, but I think that also is their downfall, is the similarities that they have with each other and they don't realize it.
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But I almost have this feeling that Wake is not alive throughout the entire movie.
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Like I feel like he was dead.
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Or in I feel like they're in this like the island is purgatory, and that's why they're stuck there with each other.
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That's like their eternal damnation almost is being in purgatory with each other when they drive each other crazy, almost like they knew, or like whoever put them together knew that they were gonna be the absolute worst for each other, and now they're stuck there for eternity.
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That's a good point.
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There's a scene where Winslow is burying Wake, and I mean Wake was motionless, being dragged to the burial site.
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It was a very violent fight these two men had, which Winslow obviously won, and then all of a sudden Wake gets up.
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But he's not only does he get up, but he literally put pounds of dirt on this man.
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Pounds.
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And then he just magically within minutes is able to get himself out of this dirt and then just come attack him.
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How long had he been in that dirt?
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And I know, as a listener, what you could be thinking, well, that's movie magic.
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This is A24.
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Yeah.
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And there's a reason why we chose to do A24 as a series.
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And no, Twisty Turneys.
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Nothing in these films is put in there without an ounce of thought.
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Everything is deliberate.
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Everything is in place and where it's supposed to be for a specific reason.
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But I also had another theory.
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Maybe Wake's alive, but maybe Winslow's not.
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And this is like a uh almost like a a fever death dream for him.
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And like he's lying dead on the rocks the whole time.
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But his consciousness is stuck on the island.
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And that's why at the very end it shows the seagull as a basically eating it.
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Because he'd been there for a while.
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But if we're talking about like taking out theories, and if I were to just look at these two gentlemen from a psychological perspective, okay.
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So if we're talking mental illness, okay, I think both of these men have trauma.
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We know that.
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I've talked about that in most of these A24 films, someone has trauma.
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But I think that Wake for sure has some and Wake is Willem Dafoe's character.
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Um he I wanna at at the very beginning, I wanted to be like, man, this dude's got a personality disorder.
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Like he's just he's a narcissist and he's he's batshit crazy, but I really I think in reality he is it's been years of isolation that has pretty much melted his brain and it's made him psychotic.
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I think the isolation, the guilt of I mean, he talked about how he no longer has a family because he's been gone for months and months and months at a time, never saw his family, you know, he has all this guilt, and then he's turns to drinking alcohol, and we know what alcohol can do to the body and the brain over time.
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And I think a lot of his issues are related to alcoholism, especially when you add the turpentine and honey, because that's basically it's poisoning him.
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So if he were to walk in, I would think trauma and some psychosis, but I think exacerbated by substance use.
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And the substance use I think is hiding deeper issues for him, like depression.
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I think he's severely depressed, but you know, he's also a man, he's an older man.
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Older men don't get depressed, instead they just drink, right?
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Or they b they boss around other people, or they make other people feel like they're tough and they're, you know, that nothing can hurt them.
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But I do think he's lonely and I think he's depressed.
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I think he tries to befriend Winslow, but then he realizes he's getting too close to Winslow, and so he pulls back, and that's whenever he starts like belittling him and to try and make himself feel superior because he doesn't feel superior.
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And then if you think about Winslow, I think Winslow, I think Winslow's got a personality disorder, some sort of personality.
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I don't know what it is, but I mean he killed his last boss.
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He changes his identity, he changes jobs regularly, he doesn't really seem to have any sort of like I don't know if you pay attention to him, but very rarely does he show genuine emotion.
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Uh apart from anger and frustration.
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Yes.
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Other than that, no other emotions.
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So I almost feel like, yeah, he's got some sort of personality disorder.
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Where he just doesn't he doesn't feel things like a normal human does.
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So you think an antisocial?
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I don't know.
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I mean he's got a lot of cluster B traits, so he's got narcissist traits.
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He's got borderline traits, you know, he's got antisocial traits, histrionic traits.
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He's got traits of all four of 'em.
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All four in the cluster B.
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But he's really difficult because you want to think that he's the good guy throughout the entire movie.
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Right?
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Like you almost want to feel bad for him.
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Like he's just trying to do a job and he's just trying to do this, but then you really find out what a terrible person he is and how selfish he is.
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And like he's doing these odd jobs for a reason because he can't do anything else and he doesn't have any family or friends and it's like well why?
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Why is that?
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Because of the type of person he is.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:23.920
But I do think that he it wants you to think he feels guilty for what he did to his previous boss but I don't think he does at all.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:31.119
No, it's almost like when he was explaining to Wake what was
going on when he finally opens up to him about it.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:38.559
It seemed like he almost I wouldn't say relished in it but he's almost proud of himself.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:24:06.720
He enjoyed the conversation that's definitely what it sounds like and but I mean there's more to this film than just trying to figure out what's going on in these guys' minds it's the environment too and it's really hard to decipher what's going on without having to sit down and watch it over and over again just to kind of get the idea of it.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:12.720
And Robert Eckers did a great job.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:32.960
Willem Defoe and Robert Pattinson what an incredible duo two actors I'd never would have thought would have been on screen together give us this type of Oscar winning performance and I would almost like to sit down and talk with one of them to see if they even had a clue what the hell they were doing.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:37.039
I mean yeah you got Green Goblin and Emo Batman on screen together.
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:38.319
It's going to be a good duo.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.839
Well it's not just emo Batman you got Edward Cullen.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.599
Oh yeah so what sparkly Emo Batman?
00:24:45.759 --> 00:25:10.400
Yeah has to be and then you got like you know Well and Defoe one of the greatest actors of our time and you you put all those ingredients together into a pot and you get the lighthouse and you get what really truly is an incredible film that is very difficult to understand.
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.759
Yeah I think I'd probably watch it again.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:26:19.359
I kind of want I I really liked the take on the Greek mythology because when I I remember we watched this the first time and we were like what the fuck did we just watch and then we looked up after the fact and we saw that Greek mythology stuff and we were like almost mind blown like oh my gosh that makes so much sense so I really like that piece of it but I also kind of like the idea that they're in purgatory and this is like their punishment for their faults but it's 824 like 824 literally could have just been like A24 literally could have just been like I really like lighthouses and I really like you know squid I want to make a movie about a lighthouse and a squid you just and and and that's the thing about A24 that's cool is like he they leave it to your interpretation.
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:33.200
All the movies are up for interpretation based on the viewer but if you think about if you're isolated on an island by yourself or with somebody else for an extended period of time chances are you're probably gonna go crazy.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:27:03.200
Yeah I mean we're a tribal creature we are we we are a social animal we have to have some sort of interaction with other people and we got a real good taste of that during COVID and a lot of people are still dealing with the aftermath of that and some of them will deal with
it for the rest of their lives but in conclusion I forgot to say something wake damn it.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:46.960
Oh well it's okay but I I swear you had something you wanted to discuss about wake so yes I forgot to mention this earlier but yeah his obsession with the lighthouse and things being perfect I almost feel like he could have a touch of OCD because if you think about one there's an obsession with the lighthouse he doesn't allow anybody else to go up there but he also has this weird like fear if so like it almost hurts him if someone doesn't like his food that he cooks.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.319
Oh yeah they had a real huge drag out fight about it.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:51.039
Yeah.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:28:44.720
And so I mean he could have a touch of OCD as well where like the lighthouse is an obsession and then so OCD if you have an obsession with something sometimes you use a compulsion to almost counteract the obsession or to um help to feed the obsession and his compulsion would be sexual up in the lighthouse to feed his obsession and he's ashamed of it at the same time and that's why he doesn't want Winslow to go up there because that's one that's his lighthouse that's his creature whatever it is but also there's some shame around the obsession that he doesn't want people to see yeah that makes sense maybe he's also not cleaning up there too so there just could be spider webs all over the place.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:29:03.599
Gross but yes and then you know with his cooking and his drinking you know those are also could be considered compulsions you know yeah and then him getting pissy with Winslow about how he mops the floor like he's very particular about everything too.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.240
Yep.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:16.720
So again up for interpretation um but it could be OCD or it could just be someone who has been doing it for years and wants it done a certain way.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:47.279
That makes sense to me but in conclusion the beauty of the lighthouse is that most of everyone's theories could be correct it uses a supernatural theme to paint a perfect portrait of isolation just remember next time you're stuck inside on a rainy day with a roommate or a partner just remember it could be worse.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.599
At least nobody is killing seagulls.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.000
At least seagulls aren't killing you that is absolutely true.
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:19.680
Well hopefully everybody has enjoyed this episode sorry if it feels like it's been all over the place um it has been a wild ride the last probably five six weeks and uh hopefully we can get back on track and getting things out regularly and we can only keep going.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:29.200
So it's almost spooky season which is our favorite so you'll probably hear a lot of random spooky movies that we'll be talking about over the next several months.
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:48.400
Yes and I am going to be uploading a few episodes to the Patreon this week and I am going to add a preview of my first episode right now.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.200
I wiped the lens thinking it was just morning condensation.
00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:06.640
When I looked back though through the crosshairs I saw them about 200 yards away nestled in the dark hollow of a collapsed concrete roof were two twin points of light.
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:25.200
They weren't reflecting my laser they were generating their own they were the color of a dying fire a deep visceral bloody crimson I pulled my face away from the tripod with the naked eye the shadows were just shadows.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:29.200
But when I looked back through the glass the lights were closer.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:37.519
They hadn't blinked, they didn't move up or down like a creature shifting its weight they just drifted forward.
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:59.359
Alright hopefully you guys enjoyed that little sneak peek of my first episode on our Patreon account Static in the canopy and you can listen to that at patreon.com slash split screen ICT and hopefully you guys enjoyed it.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:16.480
Anything else you would like to add nope I hope everybody had a good fourth and I'm excited to be back on it and just thank you everybody for continuing to support us and being patient with us and we hope that you enjoyed the episode and we promise that we will be more consistent.
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:41.119
All right thanks everybody have a great time and we will see you guys in the next one before we get into the knitting ingredient