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I think that a lot of our client communities don't understand the value of the product until we deploy it.
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And once the staff have a comfort level with the tools that we offer them, the light bulb goes off.
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Welcome to episode 20 of Small Talk, the Community is Unlimited podcast.
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My name is Chris Baker.
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Join today by Don Becker.
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Don is the GIS coordinator at Community is Unlimited and Don, just because we tend to love our acronyms.
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Will you tell us what GIS stands for?
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Yeah, it's geographic information systems.
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So break this down for me, start top level.
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Tell me what that is.
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Okay, basically it is a software that the purpose of is managing geospatial data, so that's any type of data that can be tied to a geographic location, you know, physical address, a zip code, a census tract, pretty much anything that can be tied to its real world location.
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So, for example, just because I know some of the work we do with this, and this could be like a meter for a water system or it could be anything tied to a water system.
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You're plotting points on a map.
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Am I saying that, right?
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Yeah?
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we basically build an inventory of the assets that you know a particular community might manage and if our client is a water system, then yeah, we would go out and document the location of all of their water meters and other assets that they manage.
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You know, if it can break and someone has to go out there find it and fix it, they should have an inventory that includes a precise location of what that item is and where is it.
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Well, let me ask you this Is GPS involved or is it a whole different thing?
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Yeah, we use the GPS satellite network.
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Our hardware uses the kind of the global navigation network which is called a GNSS.
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Gps is the United States constellation of satellites, but we use the Russian satellites, the Chinese satellites, the Europe satellites also, so we get a broader constellation of location data broadcast.
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Okay, Sounds complicated, is it?
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Um no, you know, we just the satellites are flying around in space and all they do is say here, I am, here, I am, here, I am.
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And we have a receiver that receives those that broadcast and as it picks up and tracks a satellite, you know it's recording multiple satellites all at the same time.
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And you know we want to have at least five satellites to get the best quality signal.
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But you know, the presence of five satellites lets us get a submeter, accurate locations on all the points that we collect.
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Okay, so tell me how a community or well, tell me some of the jobs that you guys do, so we have a better understanding of how people use you guys and the technology that you possess.
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All right.
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Well, initially, you know our our work started with the communities unlimited environmental program and we would go out and we would map a client water system or a client wastewater system.
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And so we would go out there and we would meet an individual from from that system, an employee or a former employee or a board member, but someone that has a good knowledge of where everything is.
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And so we would meet them and then they would lead us out and show us all of the assets that we're there to map.
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It's a very intensive effort, you know we're we're going from point to point and you know we're we're visiting every location served by that system and, depending on the size and distribution of the customers you know some systems can be spread out over hundreds of miles we're we're out, driving around and going from point to point, trying to collect data as efficiently as possible.
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And then what happens when you when you, let's say, you're in the truck and you're driving from connection one to connection to you arrive at connection to what happens at connection to?
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let me first talk about the very basic workflow that that we have employed Because, you know, in order to tell you what happens, you know we have to understand the process.
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So let me let me outline the process just a little bit.
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We have technical assistance providers that are living out in communities across our seven states, and so we have personnel that are pretty local to our client communities, and so they establish a relationship with the client community.
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They establish a need for GIS mapping and if, if they bring us a client that says, hey, we are interested in your GIS services, how do we get that done?
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We ask them for any existing data that they might have that relates to the system.
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So if they've got mapping, you know and that's hard copy mapping, right If they've got a map that was printed in decades ago, you know that is the only the only record of the distribution system we ask them for a digital copy of that, of that document.
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We also ask them for a list of their customer accounts and a list of their meter information, and so we
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we kind of try and get as much information beforehand.
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Then we take that data and we process it, and one of the things that we do is if we get a list of customer accounts by address, we take that and we ask the computer Okay, place a point for every account in this digital list and it will look up the address and it will interpolate a point in the digital representation of the of the United States.
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The data that we're using is often derived from, like a national E 911 list of valid addresses and the addressing is is managed for, you know, that function, that emergency response function, because that data exists and has been compiled into kind of a national geodatabase, we can take a list of addresses.
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We can ask our software okay, go, place a point at every location based on this address information and we will get a distribution of points.
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You know, not every address on a list is something that can be geocoded.
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Sometimes we we don't have a surface address, sometimes all we have is a post office box, so in that instance the points get distributed at the, the center point of a zip code.
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But you know, we do generate a point within our map for every customer connection.
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The degree of accuracy, that's, that's the thing that needs to be refined and adjusted.
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So we build an online map based on that distribution of those points.
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We take any existing mapping and we will draw in the approximate locations of water lines, valves, hydrants, any other features that that might be included in the mapping.
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And then what we do is we go out and we visit each individual point, we search for it, we find the point that we intend to collect and we update that point if it's in our existing database.
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If it's not in our existing database, then we capture a new point.
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But we will go point by point down the customer connection list and we will update the location for that point from where the computer drops it to where our GNSS device says that location is.
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By physically being there.
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You will, I got you.
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We have to find every single point, stand there with our device and update that location information.
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It's a very meticulous process.
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Basically, you guys will get the most information from the client that you can.
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You will plot that out the best you can, then you go and make it more accurate.
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Is that right?
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Yeah, we verify that location in the field and update it.
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This is going to sound like a crazy question, tom, but why is this important?
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Why does somebody want this?
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It's a historical record of where things are.
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One of our first clients was a water system in Oklahoma, a Toko Rural Water System.
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Number two, that system experienced an EF-3 tornado that hit the town of Tushka, which is where the office was located.
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I think it was like April 14th of 2011.
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They lost their office and all their records.
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They had to kind of build everything from scratch.
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The community sustained a significant amount of damage and that damage can involve water leaks where, once a structure is removed from its foundation by a tornado, it will sever the water lines and the system staff will have to go out locate the valve.
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That water line is toggled by and they have to locate the valve and turn it off.
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Once a tornado has kind of rearranged the landmarks on the town, it's much harder to find the valves to shut the system off to stop those leaks.
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Those leaks, if left unstopped, will depressurize the system and you'll lose the capacity to get anyone in town water.
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Understanding the location and distribution of all the valves is an important way managing disaster response.
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That totally makes sense to me Is a lot of your stuff that you're doing for work.
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Is it to prepare for those kind of instances or any other natural disaster?
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But also, what about just normal efficiency in the workflow for a water system or a community?
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Is that affected too Absolutely?
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The biggest thing that our client communities face is normal staff turnover, just regular attrition and we'll get into communities where it's a very small community and it's been served by a single water operator for decades.
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That water operator doesn't need a GIS map to know where everything is, because that water operator has all of that information in his memory and so when that individual isn't available, when that individual decides to retire, having a GIS map is a very efficient way to preserve the location of everything and help with the transition to a new staff member.
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So you're going to get out there and you're going to create them a more accurate assessment of their system.
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You're going to get them.
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I know they wind up with a paper map and everything.
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Let's talk about the digital side of things, because that's really
pretty powerful stuff for somebody a water system that's coming from an operator's memory, or a decades old paper map into a digital realm where there's the ability to add notes to it, things like that.
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I mean, that's a real benefit, right, yeah it's a very powerful tool we have on our GIS portal.
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We host our client data and what we provide is an interactive interface that you can access using a laptop or just a regular personal computer.
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And you go to a website that is our GIS portal and you use your username and credentials that we've assigned you, you open the interface and you have a map.
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Essentially, you have a map available to you that you can click on and open.
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Once you're in the map, you can visually browse.
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Just zoom in and out, click around, and we have attributes tied to every feature that we've collected.
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And you click on a feature that you're interested in seeing about and a pop-up will come up and you can see then all of the pertinent information that's tied to that feature.
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For example, if it's a fire hydrant, you click on it and if we have an identifier, often fire departments will go out and they'll number their fire hydrants and then, based on that number, they'll keep records on inspections and things, and so we can tie attributes to that fire hydrant that you know.
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We have a number, that's the identifier you can search on.
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We can append inspection documents if you've got an archive of the fire hydrants that you've inspected in the last year.
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With that list condition we can append those attachments and then, while we're in the field, often we photograph each item and so you can click on the point.
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You can see the notes we've made, you can see the attachments that may have been added and you can see a photograph that we've captured.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here when you describe it and I'm hearing you audibly describe it is a good entry point to understanding what GIS is for somebody.
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I mean that sounds like Google Maps, right, it sounds like a map where I can go see a picture of something and I can see attributes, I can see the address, I can see you know whatever they want to assign the data to that point on a Google map.
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I understand that it's like different and more technical, but is that like?
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Is that a good entry point to understanding?
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Yeah, I think that is a.
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You know the presence of Google Maps and you know how.
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You know everyone has the opportunity to incorporate that into their daily lives.
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But that is a rudimentary GIS.
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You have a database of places and you it's searchable so you can search for a category of information and then you can click on the map and find information.
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You can get you know a contact number for a restaurant you want to visit.
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Call them and see if they're open, I mean.
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So what we offer?
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It has a little more expanded functionality than Google Maps.
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Our GIS map is a little more layered than Google Maps and I mean that literally we have layers that we can turn on and off, that you can browse.
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Our layers are searchable, so our clients can search for an individual feature, an individual customer, an individual account number, a meter number, and all of the attributes that we have taken the time to document are available and at their fingertips.
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Gotcha, we're speaking to Don Becker.
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Don is the GIS coordinator at Communities Unlimited.
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This is a small talk.
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Do you find that the communities who work in majority rural do they understand the importance of GIS when you, when you, walk into a community, or is it something you have to educate from day one?
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It.
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Honestly, it depends on the individuals involved and we get some mixed responses, you know, and sometimes the the person who really understands the value of GIS isn't the person that we end up working with right, sometimes it's the mayor, sometimes it's the board president, sometimes it's a board member, but you know someone understands the value and is interested in getting our services.
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You know, we'll come into a community and often we'll encounter some resistance, right In a small community, and the operator who's been there for decades, you know, will tell me flat out I don't need your services, I don't need your GIS map, I know where everything is, and so we'll we'll get resistance, and so we have to start that education, overcome that resistance and and and get the individual to buy in a little bit and to understand it.
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And you know, and sometimes we have to spend it a little bit or sell it a little bit.
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And you know, for a long time operator that's doesn't have a very high digital literacy, isn't interested in smartphones, you know, and and doesn't see the value in what we do.
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I approach them with with things like you know, I know, you know where everything is, but if you go on vacation and someone needs to find, turn off a connection.
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Turn on a connection,
turn off a segment of line you don't get your time off.
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But with our GIS map, the location of things is something that can be easily obtained by anyone with access to the desktop or the mobile application.
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We have a smartphone app that Field Personnel can use and you can search for, find and then navigate to a specific location and you can walk right up on a valve or a meter and turn it off.
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It offers the long-time manager the opportunity to take a break.
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So we mostly talked about GIS in the context of a water system so far.
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But that's just, I mean, that's just one usage of it, right yeah?
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you know a lot of our initial clients were water and wastewater systems and so you know our strategies and our mindset kind of started at that point and so we kind of talk a lot about that.
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But our community sustainability program our clients are often municipalities.
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In that context, you know the municipality manages a lot more than just the water wastewater system.
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You know they manage the roads, they manage parks, the cemetery, and one of the more interesting projects we did was about a year ago.
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We went to Tallahino, oklahoma, and we mapped their old historic cemetery which had over 2,100 grave markers, you know, headstones and several dozen possible grave markers.
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Because it's an old cemetery, certain individuals, their graves may have been marked just by a stack of stones, you know, and maybe a wooden marker, and the wooden marker doesn't have a very long lifespan.
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Yeah, and he's gonna disappear, he's gonna rot away, you know.
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Yeah, and so in that circumstance, the city personnel would get calls from people from out of the area trying to visit the gravesite of a loved one.
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And the size of the cemetery and the layout of the cemetery being kind of organically laid out, it was not very precisely laid out in rows, with no reference system the people were having a real hard time directing members of the public to where their final resting place, and so navigating that cemetery posed a huge problem, and so what they asked us to do was to come in, collect a point for every single headstone out there and every single possible grave marker.
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And so we went out there and I think we ended up with over 2,200 marker locations and we photographed every single marker and we created a database that included all of the information that was on the marker.
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So everything you would see on a headstone ends up in our database and it becomes searchable, and then it becomes navigable.
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You can search for a relative if you're in the cemetery and you access the map from the mobile device.
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You can even navigate right to the individual you're trying to find.
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We also supplemented the point data we collected with we flew a drone and we collected a high resolution ortho image that we used as a base map, and so you've got this very high accuracy ortho mosaic imagery that the points for the headstones that are seen on top of, and so you can actually see the photograph of a lot of the headstones, and the resolution was high enough that you could even see the flower arrangements on some of the grave sites.
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That's the layers you were talking about earlier, right?
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Okay, that sounds like where the true power of GIS is is being able to layer data upon another layer of data on a map that's navigable and accurate, and it sounds like a really powerful tool.
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Do you feel that communities, water systems we're kind of talking about them all in one understand the full power of a GIS mapping project, or do you feel like there's a lot to be desired there?
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You know, I think, that a lot of our client communities don't understand the value of the product until we deploy it.
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You know, once the work is done and once the staff have a comfort level with the tools that we offer them, but once they've cleared that hurdle and they start to actually manage their GIS map and rely on it on a daily basis, the light bulb goes off and they become increasingly dependent on that, on that tool, and increasingly appreciative of it.
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But it's a process, it's an investment.
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I have encountered several individuals that were resistant to the concept, were resistant to the idea, whom, after having spent time working with the final product, they come around.
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Yeah, I bet they do, because it's powerful man, I mean there's, it's efficient, it becomes something, like you said, they rely upon and it allows people who are spread then anyway, to be able to be more efficient with their work and more accurate in their assessment of a problem or a project.
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We're going to revisit this eventually because I don't think we've even really scratched the surface in our time here yet, don.
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But if I could ask you to dream a little bit here, like what is the future of GIS at CU and in the work that CU does, do you see it being more obviously water systems?
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I can understand the mapping need there.
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Is it there or is it somewhere else?
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Well, I think a lot of the value is expanding awareness, communities that don't have GIS, offering them that
capability and so bringing introducing that technology to communities that don't have it I mean, there's always going to be a need for that Taking our existing clients and expanding their functionality.
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We are encouraging a lot of our current GIS users to consider asset management functions.
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So we provide them with an inventory, a geospatial inventory, of what they have and where they have it.
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But that's just the beginning.
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They can then take that information and they can start adding other values in there, like when an asset was installed and then understanding that certain categories of assets have a certain lifespan.
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Our GIS.
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We can support very basic functionality where, if we know when something was installed and we know what the recommended lifespan is, we can do on the fly calculations and show them on a map.
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Here are your assets that are near the end of their useful life and that then can become a planning tool, a budgeting tool.
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Okay, looking at the map, we have a certain percentage of fire hydrants that are going to need to be replaced and then it becomes a planning tool.
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You can use the GIS map to track your maintenance If you document when that maintenance occurs and what you've done on the map.
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Then you have a record of what's happened over the year and where, and then we might identify hotspots.
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Okay, here is a line where we have repeated leaks.
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Maybe it's time to replace that line.
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Yeah, if you're starting to see visits to a similar area for work, you can really start to identify hey, there might be something bigger going on there.
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All right, I'm picking up what you're putting down a little bit, Don, and those functions become more analytical.
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Right, we're doing some analysis and so if we can get clients interested in those analytical functions, they'll get even more out of having that GIS product.
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Yeah, I mean again, we're back to the layers.
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Right, the layers can be infinite.
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They can be very, very helpful and you get out what you put in, right, yes, so okay, I want to leave this here because I think that's a pretty good introduction to GIS, but I want to ask you one question that I kind of probably should have asked you at the beginning how do people become engaged with the GIS department at Communities and Lend?
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Let's say, somebody hears this podcast right now and they're like I probably need to talk to these people.
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How do they do it?
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We have our staff members, our technical assistance providers, that are distributed across the CU region.
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If you have an existing relationship with a CU staff member, reach out to that staff member.
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Ask them to be put in contact with a member of the GIS staff.
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I field calls all the time, providing people with that high level overview of what we offer and what the benefits are.
00:26:17.025 --> 00:26:21.789
They can just go to our website and contact us directly.
00:26:21.789 --> 00:26:29.211
That information makes its way to me and I field requests all the time.
00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:38.748
So, even if they're not engaged currently with our environmental staff on a particular project, feel free to reach out and let's talk about GIS, right, is that?
00:26:38.748 --> 00:26:42.387
Yeah, ok, cool, all right, don Becker, he's our GIS coordinator.
00:26:42.387 --> 00:26:45.249
You also have a staff that works with you.
00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:47.306
We have four individuals, including myself.
00:26:47.306 --> 00:27:19.424
We have Trent Nethery, who's our GIS project manager, and then we have Harrison Brown and Alex Webb, who are our GIS specialists, and we each have our own specialty, our own set of skills that we're best at, trent, for example, is he's the lead on our drone program, so he's the person who I would refer anyone to if they wanted the full rundown on what can be done with our drone technology.
00:27:19.424 --> 00:27:29.034
Harrison he's been getting into the coding and so he does some customization to the products we provide.
00:27:29.034 --> 00:27:32.449
And then Alex, he's been our cemetery guy.
00:27:32.449 --> 00:27:39.888
He's taken the lead on the cemetery work, and so we each kind of got our niches.
00:27:39.888 --> 00:27:52.289
I'm a little, my experience is kind of broad and historical and we're kind of expanding our knowledge base and the things that we can offer our clients.
00:27:53.112 --> 00:27:56.689
All right, don Becker, gis coordinator at Communities Unlimited.
00:27:56.689 --> 00:27:58.124
Don, thanks for coming on.
00:27:58.124 --> 00:27:59.243
Thanks for having me, chris.
00:27:59.243 --> 00:28:02.962
This episode 20 of Small Talk will be back in a couple of weeks with a new episode.