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Tim Campsall: Hey Garrett, welcome to the show. Before we started recording, you mentioned something that you were doing in the past that was sucking you into the day-to-day and killing the growth of the business. What was that?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. mainly just doing a lot of the the main products in installations for all the work that we do. and then also like a lot of supplier training, onboarding, things like that. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: Yeah, it's a it's a common problem I hear of of you know being being the person doing the work. So give me a little bit more context. What specifically were you doing and and how did it start affecting the company's growth?
Garrett Brown: Sure, yeah. So, you know, really early on I was doing a lot of the installations, you know, and it wasn't until we started to get a little more business or hired more people, right? You know, like like most businesses. But even then, kind of early, mid on, and even a little bit today, there are certain products that we gotta install and I don't quite have some of the guys on my team trained up to the point where they can do it without me being on site also.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: And so when when we get one of those installations, you know, it's a great job for us. We end up with a really happy customer. It's it's it's awesome what we're able to do. The downside is I gotta go to every single one of those and I gotta be there for that whole installation. And you know,
Tim Campsall: Right, yeah.
Garrett Brown: it's it's the classic working in the business instead of working on the business, right? So so working through that, yeah, that's that's the big one.
Tim Campsall: Yeah, yeah. So how does that how did that affect the growth then? I mean it's it's obvious, you know, at a at a high level of working in versus on, but more specifically to you, what what did it prevent you from being able to do and how did it affect growth?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. well, a couple of things. You know, one is I still talk I interface with customers a lot. you know, I'm I'm kind of our main sales guy. I answer a lot of questions, technical questions for customers also, if they're
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: looking to buy, if they've already bought. sometimes if if someone has a product and maybe it's not working right and they call us to troubleshoot it, you know, I gotta talk to them on the phone. Well, if I'm out doing an installation,
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: And I don't hear my phone ring, or maybe I'm like right in the middle of doing something, you know, you got your got your hands
Tim Campsall: yeah.
Garrett Brown: full, got a tool and screws and everything. It's kind of hard to pick it up the phone. you know, so
Tim Campsall: Right?
Garrett Brown: it so it it when it kind of impacts the customer experience too, because I don't want people to have to wait for me to call back, you know, if
Tim Campsall: Mm. Right, yeah.
Garrett Brown: if mom's having a problem or w or whatever. you know, but it but doing that also keeps me from growing the business, you know, if if I gotta hire more people going through that hiring process, if I need to
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: go talk with our referral partners, our affiliates, you know, if I don't have, you know, if if if I'm busy working doing these product installations where hey,
Tim Campsall: Sure.
Garrett Brown: I just need to get some guys trained up, maybe I need to get another guy, then now I'm I'm unable to go out and maintain or build those relationships, you know. So those are the
Tim Campsall: So
Garrett Brown: big Big sticking points there that have really slowed down some of that growth because of
Tim Campsall: And then Garrett, on the personal side, when in the past when you were the main installation person and juggling the on and in, how how'd that affect you personally?
Garrett Brown: Well it it make it's hard, you know, it makes life very difficult. I've got a wife and two young children. I've got, you know, hobbies that I like to do outside of work. They've got hobbies that they like to do outside of work, you know, and
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: and if I'm if I'm staying at work late, okay, well it makes it hard to to maintain
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: those family commitments, right? If you know, like some of my wife's family, they live an hour away, well, if I'm busy and we're trying to go do something with her family, that makes
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: it pretty pretty difficult to get to those appointments, you know, at at least on time or if at all.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: you know, there's lots of nights where you're up late and I mean that's gonna happen when you're when you're starting a business, but
Tim Campsall: Sure.
Garrett Brown: I mean lots of very late nights, you know, run into the next day a little bit and and you know, it it it's hard, you know, it takes a toll on you, you know, mentally and physically, you know, it impacts your sleep.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: You know, I I always wanna show up and be my best for my employees, my customers, you know, my family. And
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, if if I'm if I'm neglecting myself too much and it starts to impact me, you know, not just my schedule to be present, but also, you know, emotionally,
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, that's a problem, you know, that's that's something I gotta I gotta deal with and and correct.
Tim Campsall: Absolutely. So so I when you were going through that, what did you realize had to change in that messy middle moment and and what'd you start doing differently?
Garrett Brown: Well, the big thing is you know, delegating, right? Making sure that if someone can do something that's on my team, allowing them to do it, you know. and I know other other people, other business owners that have that have kind of run into this also, you know, but if you've got people on your
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team and they've got the capacity, they've been trained, they've got the capabilities, then you know, you have to Take those tasks and give them to those to your your teammates, right?
Tim Campsall: Yes. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: And you know, it it can be so easy to be like, especially like, you know, it's nighttime, kids are bed, you're just tidying up emails or working through a couple of weak springs from the day. You know, it's so easy to say, well, I'll just do this r this real quick thing. You know, it's something you're
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: familiar with, you know you're gonna you're just gonna knock it out in a few minutes, you know, but But there's so many other things that you could be doing, and there are so many things that are gonna move the needle and move the business forward. And if if I'm the one doing every single little thing, well, all those little things add up. You know, if I've got 10 five minute tasks, that's almost an hour, right? Well, I could take those ten tasks and just hand them off to someone else. And I mean if that takes ten minutes, well I just saved forty minutes. What can I do with forty minutes? Right?
Tim Campsall: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: So that's that's been the big one. you know, is is forcing myself that hey, I've got people that I can trust. So rather than just check off a few boxes, I'm gonna give this to those people, you know, because they're here to to to make a make our customers successful and and they're here to to make this this team awesome also. So let's do it. You know, it's it's it's we, not me.
Tim Campsall: Love it. Love it. Thanks for sharing. And one of the things that that I hear a lot is is similar to what you said, right? It's only five minutes here or ten minutes there. But I love that you added it all up and said, Hey, it could be an hour and and the thing that that I share with clients is the is the opportunity cost of that. So right, let's assume that your time for the to the company is worth two hundred dollars an hour and the person that you're gonna delegate it to, you're paying them what twenty-five or fifty dollars an hour, right, all of a sudden, right, that's a significant savings if you can work on two hundred dollar an hour opportunities, right, instead of doing the twenty-five dollar an hour tasks.
Garrett Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Exactly.
Tim Campsall: So so Garrett, tell us the name of your company and what do you guys do?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. so I own and operate a franchise here in Indiana called Next Day Access. I've got three territories which covers all of central Indiana and the Fort Wayne area. And we help people stay safe in their home. So most of the people that we work with are gonna be you know, people that are that are getting older, they're retired, and you know, they're getting to the point in their life where falls have become a real risk, you know. And so we do you know, some of our solutions are aluminum wheelchair ramps, grab bars, stair lifts, platform lifts, things like that.
Tim Campsall: And yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, we do patient lifts also, which which is generally very complimentary if there's like an in home caregiver.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: you know, and and most of the time this is for for senior citizens, but we also work with people that might have some kind of a physical disability or maybe a mental disability. And
Tim Campsall: Okay. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: we also work with people that maybe they got injured or maybe they had a surgery.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: maybe they were working and there was a an accident at work and and so now they're going through that that worker compensation thing,
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: right? so that's that's really what we do is is we help we help people get in and out of their home and and prevent falls in the home in
Tim Campsall: Wonderful.
Garrett Brown: a nutshell.
Tim Campsall: Yeah, love it. Thanks for sharing. So stepping
Garrett Brown: Yeah.
Tim Campsall: into ownership requires a a bit of a leap of faith. What was the biggest surprise between what you expected ownership to be like and what it's actually been like?
Garrett Brown: man, that's a good question. you know, I I went into it knowing that there was gonna be a lot that I didn't know
Tim Campsall: Uh-huh.
Garrett Brown: and and I'd have to learn a lot. you know, probably the biggest surprise is the feeling of stress is not nearly as as pronounced as it used to be. It's like I've almost become not numb to it, but like kind of like you I've built up a little bit of a tolerance to it.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: and that was not something I was expecting. You know, I figured I'd always kind of be stressed out, pulling my hair out, you know, watching what watching my hairline change. And you know, that's so that's been a big one. you know, an another probably another big surprise that that other people can relate to is things don't happen unless you make them happen.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: Right. And that doesn't just go for what I'm doing or what the business is doing. You know, sometimes that's what other people are working on, sometimes that's customers, sometimes there's a a middleman or an intermediary or you know, like a husband or wife, son or daughter that's kinda helping make happen what we do and you know the the end user who who's gonna really use our our products and solutions. And so,
Tim Campsall: Yeah. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, realizing that hey, you gotta make things happen. You gotta you gotta You gotta drive it, you know, you gotta drive the car.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you gotta run the marathon. you gotta take the action. And a lot of times people wanna do things, you know, and it's not that you have to push people to do it. You just have to get the ball rolling, you know, and and sometimes
Tim Campsall: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you gotta you gotta, you
know, kinda knock the ball and keep it rolling. So
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: so yeah, so that's a big one, right? and I think anyone who's even if you've just been a project manager, you've you've kind of had to deal with that also, you know, because business ownership is is a lot of project management, you know, and and it's not just,
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: hey, I'm I'm managing projects for customers, I'm also managing, you know, inventory and vehicles and and what people are working on. So it's you know, vendors, you know, there's a lot of administrative work that goes there. Taxes and accounting, right? So so yeah, that's I I would say that's that's been the the biggest, I guess, eye opening experience for me.
Tim Campsall: Love it. Thanks for thanks for sharing that. One of the things that we often say is the biggest risk you can take is to do nothing. And that aligns really well with what you are just describing, right? Of somebody has to start and then and then there also has to be somebody who continues to nudge it along. And and but there's there's often this fear of of it going wrong. So a lot of folks just won't do anything at all. And it's impossible to learn. Right. Until you actually start it because there's so much involved in the the actual execution and that's where the the biggest learnings come from, right?
Garrett Brown: Yeah, exactly.
Tim Campsall: So Garrett, before the show you shared that on site evaluations is the thing that's currently keeping you pulled back into the day to day. So give us some context on that. What's happening?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. so we've got a big commercial client and and it's great. They're they're consistent business, you know, they they pay on time, they're great to work with, they're they're pretty easy to work with. you know, but but part of what that requires is that you know, we have to go out to job sites and we gotta do in person evaluations. So we gotta take
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: measurements and photos, we gotta come up with a layout for for what we're gonna be doing. You know, and and then we submit that to our our client. Well, the hard part about that is a lot of these a lot of these job sites are gonna be one, one and a half, two, two and a half hours each way. And
Tim Campsall: wow. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: and so that ends up being a lot of a lot of windshield time, excuse me,
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: a lot of windshield time for me. And and it's hard to I mean there's only so many phone calls you can make before you're done making phone calls.
Tim Campsall: Right?
Garrett Brown: you know, you you do your follow up calls, you you check in on people, you say hello, yeah,
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: ask questions on on things you got going on, you know, but you know, and so it's good because I've been able to listen to a lot of podcasts and and that's been great for
Tim Campsall: Sure.
Garrett Brown: my own personal growth. But you know, there's a lot of time spent just sitting in the car not being
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: able to I can't work on my list, you know, I got my I got my priority list and it's
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: very easy for that priority list to just continue to grow because hey, you know, I'm I'm driving, you know, I can't
Tim Campsall: Mm. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: I can't, you know, pull out my laptop and and work on it. I can't s you know,
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: draw out the sketch while I'm driving. You know, I don't want run into someone. So yeah,
Tim Campsall: Yeah, fair enough.
Garrett Brown: yeah. So that's that's been a real hurdle more recently. you know, and I've
Tim Campsall: Okay. Yeah. And how's that how's that affect you personally?
Garrett Brown: well, it it just means I gotta you know, when I get home, I do what I can
Tim Campsall: You know that I can do it.
Garrett Brown: to to to spend time with my family and then the kids go to bed and then I gotta spend, you know, more time catching up on my list before I'm able to
Tim Campsall: About it.
Garrett Brown: to do anything anything else. You know, I've
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: it's it's it's hard 'cause you got I got a family that depends on me and then I've also got, you know, clients and customers and you know, people here.
Tim Campsall: Sure. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, people that I work with and and so it it's you know, personally it's hard because I've got so many more things that I gotta take care of to make sure that everyone has what they need.
Tim Campsall: Yeah, fair.
Garrett Brown: And you know, I don't wanna let anyone down. I don't wanna mess up. you know, I I don't wanna I don't wanna fail for someone else or I don't wanna cause them to fail because of me, you know, so I'm not gonna let that happen. And you know, the the the drawback to that is I go to bed later. I don't have as much time at night, you know,
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: to to spend with my family or just, you know, work work through
Tim Campsall: Yeah, fair.
Garrett Brown: hobbies, you know, or have fun with hobbies. So yeah.
Tim Campsall: So Garrett, what does it cost the business if if it stays status quo, if nothing changes?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. well, growth is gonna really be stunted.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: you know, it's it's it's the classic working in the business instead of working on the business and
Tim Campsall: Right, yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, it kinda goes back to what we talked about earlier earlier on is if I'm doing all this work that someone else could be doing if they had the capacity,
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: then I'm not able to do the things that are going to grow the business and bring in more revenue and allow us to, you know, buy more vans or more tools or hold more inventory or hire more people.
Tim Campsall: Yeah. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, and and so that's that's the real drawback there. And, you know,
it it's you mentioned opportunity cost and yeah, there's opportunity cost to it, but you know, there's it's not just that that hourly cost,
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: you know, because for what I'm doing for these evaluations at the moment I don't have someone else I can hand that to, you know, and it's just a capacity
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: thing. If if we're all kind of near capacity, you know, it obviously I just need to hire another person, right? But but keeping everyone so highly loaded makes it hard for me to go out and and grow the business, you know. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: Right. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of hard to do recruiting behind the windshield, right? Yeah.
Garrett Brown: It is yeah. Exactly, yeah. You can't read resumes while you drive. Right? At least not for long. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: For folks listening, I'm Coach Tim Campsell and we work with business owners in the messy middle where the business has outgrown how it's being run. And keeps the owner in the day to day. Some of the things that we've been talking with Garrett about today. So Garrett, what lesson do you wish you'd learned sooner to allow you to get out of the day to day faster?
Garrett Brown: Man. Really just push through making sure your people have the training and the tools that they need, even if it is hard and it sucks and you feel like there's no time to do it. Make time. You have gotta make the time to do that training. And then you have to trust your people and you gotta hand those things off and you gotta let them fly, right?
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: You gotta let them do. their job, right? There's no point in hiring someone if you're if you won't let them do their job. So do it. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: I love that you said, you know, just find the time to do it. The we I always say to folks, it's it's systems before team, meaning right if we're planning on hiring somebody, we should have clarity on what we want them to do and processes and procedures written out or how-tos or a little video created, something so that we can set that person up for success. And right and and usually we do it the other way around because it it's you know We're busy and we need a person, so we hire a person and then it's like, right? The person doesn't know what they're supposed to do and I don't really have time to train them. And then, you know, sometimes we lose that person because they didn't meet expectations, but it's because we didn't spend the time to right to train them and and hold them accountable and give them the the documentation that they need to be successful, right?
Garrett Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: So what was the what was the cost to you of not knowing that sooner? That that hire them, train them, let go and and trust that they're gonna be a good employee?
Garrett Brown: Right. Definitely some stunted business growth.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: you know, and and a lot of a lot of doing doing things that I could have had someone else do that I was paying them to do anyway. you know, just kind of a Really just a just a a reduction in in how quickly the business is able to grow.
Tim Campsall: Mm. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, probably more long nights. I probably had a few
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: customers where we delivered later than we should have. And
Tim Campsall: Okay.
Garrett Brown: and you know, we weren't able to provide a A plus experience to because of that. Yeah. Definitely.
Tim Campsall: Okay. Sure. Yeah. I yeah, I appreciate your candor because people listening to this are right are are are gonna be wiser and learn from from your learning. So again, thanks for being transparent and candid with with us today. in your journey, when things felt stuck or overwhelming, what changed when you brought in an outside perspective?
Garrett Brown: Well, You know, it's kinda like this you don't know what you don't know.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: And it's so easy to be in the trenches and and you kind of get tunnel vision. And anytime you can you can have someone else come and look at what you got going on, you can gain a perspective as long as you're willing to listen.
Tim Campsall: Sure.
Garrett Brown: And realize that hey, you know, maybe I'm the problem, you know, take some responsibility and accountability. as long as you can do that, then
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you're gonna you're gonna move forward a lot faster.
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: And it doesn't just impact, you know, like if if we move forward faster, it doesn't just impact me. It
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: impacts the other people on my team. It impacts
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: our our vendors and our customers, you know,
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: because ultimately our customers are the ones that succeed because we're able to help them succeed.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: And if you know working long days and long nights, if we're running behind in our schedule, if if a project takes longer than expected
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: and you know we don't have that buffer time and
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: we gotta rearrange our whole schedule to make it happen, you know, then we're not really we're not serving our customers as well as we should be. Right. And so being
Tim Campsall: Mm. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: able to if you can bring in an outside perspective and listen to what they say, you know, and and and really just try not to put your own filter on it. Just hear what they have to say and and then kind of go through it logically and say, Hey, is what they said true? You know, put yourself in their shoes, put yourself in your customers' shoes. It'll
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: it'll make your business a hundred times better, a hundred times faster. Right?
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: And yeah, and and you know, it's a dog eat dog world out there. So you really need every edge
you can get.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm. Right.
Garrett Brown: against your competition, you know, because if you're not growing, you're dying and your competition's the same way. You know, there is there's no steady state. It's either you're you're growing or you're dying. Every single day, every month, every year. So yeah, it makes a big difference.
Tim Campsall: Absolutely. Yeah. And I I love that quote. It's a it's a good reminder to to keep at it every day, right? So
Garrett Brown: Mm. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: our show is called Self Made is a Myth because we know no one gets there on their own. So Garrett, who are the three people you wouldn't have achieved the successes that you have thus far if it weren't for them? And and so who are they and how'd they help you along the way?
Garrett Brown: Yeah. well, you know, wife first, right? We got two kids and if she wasn't such a great mom, if she wasn't able to handle, you know, me coming home late or working weekends, you know, the business wouldn't be successful.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, my parents are a big one too. I know you you wanted three people, but I'm gonna count my parents as w as one for the for your question. you
Tim Campsall: Sure, fair enough.
Garrett Brown: know, they've they've helped tremendously. some of that's been with childcare, some of that's been with with wisdom, some of that's been with with with hard labor helping
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: helping to do some of the work.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, and and so that's been a massive help. and then there's a an another guy in our franchise system, another another owner, Carl, who's been very helpful in some of the wisdom he's provided,
Tim Campsall: Mm.
Garrett Brown: you know, some of the the other other resources he's he's been able to to give me or lend me.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: You know, and he's just he's a guy who's been who's been working his whole life and and doing the thing and doing the hard thing and and you know, when you find people like that, you know, we got two ears and one mouth and and I think there's a there's a good
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: reason for that and that's the right ratio of how we how much we should be listening to how much we should be speaking. So, you know, those those have
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: been three four really, really important people in my my business journey life.
Tim Campsall: Awesome. I love it. And what's your wife's name? Rebecca. Awesome. Fantastic.
Garrett Brown: Becca, yeah. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: It it certainly makes a difference when we've got that strong support at home, doesn't it?
Garrett Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: So, Garrett, it sounds like obviously you just shared some people that have blessed you along the way. So you've got a good, a good network of folks who have helped you. if they were all here today on the show, what would you want to say to them?
Garrett Brown: Thanks. Definitely thanks. you know, I really really couldn't have done this without them, you know, without their support and their help. you know, w the wisdom, the sweat. Right. so yeah, definitely a a big a big thank you, you know. Thank you so much. And you know, it's it's it's a real blessing and you know the the The love and support I've been able to get is is is just incredible.
Tim Campsall: Love it. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. you mentioned the I I loved the your analogy of the two ears and and one mouth and and to to listen more than we speak. where do you get your information from? You mentioned podcasts earlier. you know w a I hear a lot of of owners say I I don't have time to to learn and grow and read and so. How do you fit that in and where do you get your information from?
Garrett Brown: Yeah, good question. so I've got I keep a massive list of books to read and I try to do at least ten pages a day. You know, you can do ten pages of a book every single day and you'll get through it and you'll be ten times better because of it. you know, and don't be afraid to spend a little bit of money on a book. Like if you find a thirty or forty dollar book, you know, it it's so easy to pick it up and go, Man, that's forty bucks for a book, you know, but It's impossible to put a price on the value that you can get out of a book. You know, you go find
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: someone like Zig Ziggler, Simon Seneck, Bill Zanger, Tony Robbins.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: there's so many incredible books out there on personal growth, you know, finance, business.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: There are there are I mean If you buy a forty dollar book and you read that book and you get one thing out of it, that could be a million dollar thing, depending on your revenue. You
Tim Campsall: Right. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: know. so books are a big one. you know, podcasts are a a huge one for me. Andy Frisella, Ed Milet, Alex Hermozzi, those are three big ones for me.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: you know, Andy's got an enormous amount of real world grind through experience. And you can go listen to him. He's he's got like three hundred and ten episodes of just business. and then he he changed formats and he still has I mean he's got over a thousand podcasts episodes now.
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: You know, if you listen to just a a tenth of them, the amount of information is just
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: it's it's overwhelming, you know. Ed Milette, he's got tons of business, you know, personal growth and development.
Tim Campsall: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Brown: He's great for, you know, how to how to work with people and and how to be a great guy or great gal. you know, Hormosy does a great job of of being very logical, which
Tim Campsall: Yeah.
Garrett Brown: you know, as humans, it's easy to be emotional and and so listening to his stuff is great because it it kind of kind of gets me back into that frame of like, hey, like I I just gotta be logical about this and work through it and
Tim Campsall: Yeah. Yeah.
Garrett Brown: and make it happen, you know. It's it's you know, how eat an elephant's one bite at a time. If you were to eat a whole elephant, I don't know if I could I that's a lot.
Tim Campsall: Right.
Garrett Brown: Yeah. So so that that's where I get a lot of my a lot of my information from is is books and and th you know, those podcasts. you know, and and each one of those guys, you know, if you look up, they've got books that they recommend. And you can just start with some of their books and you know, it's I mean you you really can't go wrong. You know, as long as you find a a good book written by a good person, you know, hop on Amazon or or I you Thrift Books, you know, I I'm not sponsored by them, I don't get paid by them, but Thrift Books is awesome 'cause like, man, they're cheap, you know, and they've got tons of books, right? So if you're, you know, trying to be a little frugal, you know, trying to be a little a little responsible with your money, it's a great way to get books, you know, get some used books. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: Yeah. Yeah. And and the the reality is, you kind of alluded to this, is as business owners, we can only grow to our level of of knowledge. And so if we're not continuing to learn, then the business will plateau because it can't grow beyond our knowledge and skills.
Garrett Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Campsall: For folks listening, if you're stuck in the messy middle, there's a way through it and you don't have to figure it out on your own. Our two week coaching trial helps you to see exactly what's keeping the business stuck and what needs to change. The link is in the description if you'd like to take advantage of that. And if this conversation resonated with you, like it, comment on it so that others see that and have the opportunity to listen to all the insights that Garrett shared today. And subscri subscribe to our channel so that you don't miss our next episode. I'll see you all next time.