Transcrição completa de A CLI by Next Friday

WEBVTT
00:00:37.465 --> 00:00:38.304
Hey man, how's it going?
00:00:39.735 --> 00:00:40.076
Pretty good.
00:00:40.076 --> 00:00:40.466
How are you?
00:00:42.638 --> 00:00:42.849
Yeah.
00:00:42.849 --> 00:00:42.929
Good, good.
00:00:42.929 --> 00:00:49.198
Um, I guess Rails World started which, neither of us, clearly got a chance to go to.
00:00:49.198 --> 00:00:51.638
But, uh, did watch the keynote.
00:00:51.908 --> 00:01:12.769
Thought that might be a, uh, good place to start 'cause I sort of logged in yesterday to Twitter and saw all the, you know, the negative comments, and I was like, "What is happening?" So I watched the keynote, and frankly, I just, I don't, I don't think I get it.
00:01:13.139 --> 00:01:15.088
I don't, I don't get where the negativity is coming from.
00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:21.879
That was actually my thought as well, uh, 'cause I watched it too, and I wasn't on Twitter or anything yesterday.
00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:23.129
I was just too busy, whatever.
00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:37.560
And when you sent me the comment last night saying, "Oh yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on on Twitter," and then I watched it, I came out of it thinking, "Why?" And I haven't actually looked to see what the discourse is, but, um
00:01:39.015 --> 00:01:45.304
I mean, I, I think the, the-- I there's obviously the DHH haters out there that are just
00:01:45.317 --> 00:01:45.867
Yeah
00:01:45.944 --> 00:01:46.844
on, right?
00:01:46.864 --> 00:01:53.375
But, you know, I guess it's like… I mean, they didn't really talk about Rails, right?
00:01:53.855 --> 00:01:54.424
At all.
00:01:54.435 --> 00:01:59.105
I mean, very little anyway, other than to say there's a place for it.
00:01:59.974 --> 00:02:00.343
Yeah
00:02:00.554 --> 00:02:05.295
I, I think if I had-- So like, you know, I think people are like, "Oh, DHH isn't even using Rails anymore.
00:02:05.295 --> 00:02:07.444
Like they're migrating, hey, to Rust."
00:02:08.134 --> 00:02:08.493
Yep
00:02:09.555 --> 00:02:14.144
you know, and then, you know, immediately that's like, okay, well, Rails is dead.
00:02:14.834 --> 00:02:15.615
Ruby's dead.
00:02:15.805 --> 00:02:16.704
Everything's dead.
00:02:17.905 --> 00:02:34.845
Um, which, you know, the, the-- my only wish, and, and this is solely for so I don't have to listen to all this noise for the next like three weeks, was that he had said a little bit more about where Rails fits in, because he kind of just glossed over it,
00:02:35.021 --> 00:02:35.382
Right
00:02:35.685 --> 00:02:35.995
right?
00:02:35.995 --> 00:02:45.355
But I think that's just probably… I mean, I, I'm not him, I don't know him, but I imagine that's just excitement for everything that's happening, that it just sort of got lost.
00:02:46.533 --> 00:02:46.934
Yeah.
00:02:48.754 --> 00:02:49.704
I, I think that's right.
00:02:49.743 --> 00:03:00.684
I, the one thing that, that I will add is it was, like, last week, maybe the week before, I was listening to the Mostly Technical podcast, which those guys are, uh, Laravel developers.
00:03:01.324 -->

00:03:07.413
But they had just had some Laravel conference over in Europe, and DHH was there.
00:03:08.033 --> 00:03:23.184
And what I'd heard is that there was a roundtable type of discussion with, um, Taylor Otwell, the creator of Laravel, and DHH, and they… I think there was a, maybe a moderator or something like that, that was asking them questions about both their frameworks.
00:03:23.743 --> 00:03:46.144
And the, what the hosts of that podcast said, I haven't watched this, that they asked it, and I think Taylor Otwell, if I remember right, had some sort of, like,"Yeah, you know, uh, Laravel's gonna do this, this, and this," and DHH's answer was kinda just like, "It was a great run." Or something like that, I think, which ca- ki- kinda came off in this keynote as well.
00:03:46.153 --> 00:03:52.184
So I, I guess I wasn't surprised by the lack of the Rails discussion based on just hearing that little anecdote.
00:03:52.814 --> 00:04:05.124
Um, a- and, you know, even I think he made the comment, what, that, like, in the last year or whatever it was since he started doing agentic coding anyways, his Ruby code was, like, 3% of all of his code or something.
00:04:05.134 --> 00:04:05.634
So, like…
00:04:05.797 --> 00:04:06.766
Well, of course it is.
00:04:06.766 --> 00:04:09.026
He's building an operating system in a different language, so
00:04:09.293 --> 00:04:09.783
Right.
00:04:09.834 --> 00:04:10.233
Right.
00:04:10.336 --> 00:04:11.016
that makes sense,
00:04:11.504 --> 00:04:12.483
Yep, exactly.
00:04:12.617 --> 00:04:15.937
I'd like to actually understand the context behind that comment a little bit more.
00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:16.689
Yeah.
00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:17.100
Yep
00:04:18.326 --> 00:04:24.507
yeah, I m- I mean, I, I think there's like, there's some interesting, like business things to, to take out of his talk, right?
00:04:24.507 --> 00:04:28.466
Like, first of all, I, I don't think Rails is going anywhere.
00:04:28.466 --> 00:04:29.757
It's still a fun…
00:04:29.798 --> 00:04:30.197
Yeah
00:04:30.286 --> 00:04:34.187
rather look at Rails code than other code, and he said the same thing.
00:04:34.326 --> 00:04:47.735
I, I think the more important thing to think about is that You know, and we've, we've said this before, but th-this is just a new, you know, level of abstraction what we were doing before.
00:04:48.102 --> 00:04:48.432
Yep
00:04:48.475 --> 00:04:57.375
can code, as he put it, in English and not have to worry about, the programming language, then why wouldn't we,
00:04:58.295 --> 00:04:58.665
Right
00:05:00.455 --> 00:05:05.775
You know, uh, the, uh, the first thing I wrote down is like, he said there's only one serious question, right?
00:05:05.785 --> 00:05:10.605
How do you get the most out of this intelligence explosion, right?
00:05:10.605 --> 00:05:13.574
And that's the only right question to be asking as a business owner.
00:05:14.384 --> 00:05:14.734
Right
00:05:14.814 --> 00:05:20.185
don't… You know, from a business perspective, I don't care if our app is Ruby on Rails or anything else.

00:05:20.194 --> 00:05:25.155
From a programming re- or programmer perspective, I love Rails, right?
00:05:25.155 --> 00:05:25.495
Like,
00:05:26.150 --> 00:05:26.610
Yes
00:05:26.655 --> 00:05:30.985
a rush to take our app off of Rails, right?
00:05:30.985 --> 00:05:48.275
If there was a, you know, good reason to do so, right, which is what he articulated with Hey, it's like, hey, we don't need Rails because the, the majority of the front end is gonna be in these native apps, and the back end just needs to be fast,
00:05:49.216 --> 00:05:49.636
Right
00:05:49.795 --> 00:05:54.055
it's a different use case than most people have, and he, and he did allude to that, right?
00:05:54.055 --> 00:05:57.225
Like, web apps are still great for Rails, right?
00:05:57.830 --> 00:05:58.120
Yep.
00:05:59.009 --> 00:06:08.439
A- and I don't remember if he specifically said this about the, you know, web version of Hey, but obviously the iOS and Android versions are gonna be no longer Rails.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:13.540
I would be shocked if they pulled, you know, all of Hey off of Rails, but I don't know.
00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:18.009
Maybe they're gonna push everything to be the native apps, uh, you know, um
00:06:18.843 --> 00:06:22.463
Well, I mean, I, I would want to ask the clarifying question, right?
00:06:22.463 --> 00:06:27.393
Like, I assume native apps means more than just, uh, iOS Android.
00:06:27.483 --> 00:06:27.622
I
00:06:27.674 --> 00:06:33.494
Well, I, I think he, he did answer that because he showed that Windows version, so clearly they're looking at that too
00:06:33.538 --> 00:06:37.908
Windows, the, the Mac, the, the Linux, the whatever, right?
00:06:37.997 --> 00:06:38.367
Right
00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:41.739
so the, the really the only question left, is there a WebView at all,
00:06:42.542 --> 00:06:43.382
Right, exactly.
00:06:43.412 --> 00:06:43.742
Yep.
00:06:43.919 --> 00:06:44.528
like no,
00:06:44.992 --> 00:06:45.412
Mm-hmm
00:06:46.038 --> 00:06:47.189
don't know, right?
00:06:47.590 --> 00:06:47.840
Yeah
00:06:48.778 --> 00:06:54.899
I mean, I'm not a Hey user, so… Although I might, I kinda wanna be after seeing the demo.
00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:55.669
It looked pretty cool.
00:06:55.968 --> 00:06:56.509
Um-
00:06:56.526 --> 00:06:57.425
I, I am a user.
00:06:57.456 --> 00:06:59.295
Uh, I mean, I, I… It's fine.
00:06:59.295 --> 00:07:06.675
It's, like, like it… For me, it's so opinionated, like, I try and follow what they do, and I don't wanna, you know, get too much into it.
00:07:06.675 --> 00:07:26.615
But in general, like, it's, it's better than Gmail, but I still don't, like my, either my brain just doesn't work exactly the way their workflows work, and so I still have, like, an inbox full of stuff, and I still have, like, the different feeds and paper trail, I think they call it, stuff like that, that I probably don't use as well as I should.
00:07:26.626 --> 00:07:32.865
But overall, like, for $100 for a year to not have the spam and all that kinda crap, like, that's fine.
00:07:33.225 --> 00:07:34.446
That solves enough for me.
00:07:34.855 --> 00:07:35.266
So
00:07:38.413 --> 00:07:47.775
Well, um You got anything, a-any other reactions you wanna share before I go to the next topic?
00:07:49.302 --> 00:07:51.222
Um, not a whole lot more.
00:07:51.222 --> 00:08:01.062
I mean, I, I did like the fact that he tried to paint the picture of, you know, where, uh, you know, painters were and then the, the camera and all that stuff.
00:08:01.692 --> 00:08:14.141
Obviously, there's some nuance in there that got left out and, a- and he did talk about this too, that like we've jumped so far in the AI or agentic era, I think is what he was mostly calling it, that it's… it is a different thing.
00:08:14.141 --> 00:08:18.802
But it-- I, I, I guess the, the message he had at the end, I did like.
00:08:18.872 --> 00:08:27.342
That like it- even if all this goes to shit, like, at least if you're being optimistic about it, like you're, you're happy in the end.
00:08:27.342 --> 00:08:32.131
And that's kinda where I've always been the whole time anyways, is like I'm getting a lot of value out of this.
00:08:32.601 --> 00:08:38.822
Like, is there doom and gloom predictions and all that kinda stuff, and like do I-- does that scare me?
00:08:38.871 --> 00:08:39.761
Sort of.
00:08:39.812 --> 00:08:40.682
Like I don't know.
00:08:40.701 --> 00:08:49.151
I'm not like, you know, that scared about it, but like sure, some nasty stuff could happen because of AI, but it al- could also happen because of a lot of different things.
00:08:49.552 --> 00:08:50.221
And so
00:08:50.804 --> 00:09:00.125
I feel like I'm having the same conversation over and over again with, you know, friends and family and just acquaintances, anyone who want-- who will listen to or debate this with me, right?
00:09:00.144 --> 00:09:08.455
But, you know, every, you know, revolution throughout history has had the same sort of prediction.
00:09:08.585 --> 00:09:08.695
It's
00:09:08.774 --> 00:09:09.173
Yeah
00:09:09.294 --> 00:09:17.664
gonna ruin everything." No, what it does is it increases, like, the overall, like, value of the thing so more people can participate, right?
00:09:17.664 --> 00:09:18.034
Like,
00:09:18.214 --> 00:09:18.604
Yeah
00:09:18.625 --> 00:09:29.715
we go back and look at history, right, from, you know, Industrial Revolution on, all that's happening is the market's getting bigger, more people get to participate, and the rate of change is increasing, right?
00:09:29.715 --> 00:09:32.735
And th-those are, like, maybe the three constants, uh,
00:09:32.774 --> 00:09:33.173
Yeah
00:09:33.475 --> 00:09:33.725
right?
00:09:33.725 --> 00:09:41.215
So like, I, I personally believe that, yeah, the entire market is changing underneath us right now, and we don't know where it's going.
00:09:42.115 --> 00:09:48.774
But I am pretty confident it's gonna expand, more people are gonna come into it, and, uh, things will just continue.
00:09:48.925 --> 00:09:50.394
We're gonna have another boom, right?
00:09:50.754 --> 00:09:52.345
It may be preceded by a bust,
00:09:52.645 --> 00:09:53.046
Yeah
00:09:53.435 --> 00:10:04.884
common, right, 'cause people put money into things that have no value or don't have the value they prescribe to them, and that, you know, that's, that's a market condition, not a, you know, a, a f- a foundational thing, right?
00:10:04.933 --> 00:10:05.293
Yep
00:10:05.565 --> 00:10:14.085
may-maybe there's so much money flowing into AI that it's unsustainable and there's gonna be a, a bubble and a bust and, you know, maybe the market crashes, right?
00:10:14.085 --> 00:10:17.735
But overall, at the end of the day, it's gonna come back and expand further, right?
00:10:17.735 --> 00:10:18.225
It has to,
00:10:19.408 --> 00:10:19.677
Right.
00:10:19.677 --> 00:10:25.978
And with all the open models now, like, it's not like the models… Not, not like AI is gonna go away if these companies fail.
00:10:26.268 --> 00:10:32.668
Like, all three of the big companies could fail right today, and we will still have AI, it'll just be at a slower pace.
00:10:33.077 --> 00:10:34.457
So yeah, I agree with what you're saying there.
00:10:34.457 --> 00:10:38.587
That, that all makes sense for my thoughts as well
00:10:39.004 --> 00:10:48.435
And then the other analogy I always like to, to reference, uh, and I think this is actually from one of DHH's I'm certainly not taking credit for it.
00:10:48.435 --> 00:10:49.945
If it wasn't him, it was somebody else I heard.
00:10:49.985 --> 00:10:56.435
But, um, you know, this, this notion that, you know, programming jobs are going away, right?
00:10:56.435 --> 00:10:58.825
It's like, well, th-this-- we've, we've seen this too, right?
00:10:59.412 --> 00:10:59.912
Mm-hmm
00:11:00.055 --> 00:11:10.955
there was Assembly, and then there was C, and then there was C++, and then C#, and then, you know, these nicer languages like, you know, PHP and Ruby and, know, then we got frameworks on top of that.
00:11:11.154 --> 00:11:24.445
This is just another abstraction over the top, and I, I think one of the things, you know, I did like is like, okay, yeah, maybe I… You know, DHH said he's retired from professional programming, but he's
00:11:24.550 --> 00:11:24.950
Yeah
00:11:25.154 --> 00:11:26.055
and builder, right?
00:11:26.055 --> 00:11:29.284
And at the end of the day, like, I feel like that's always what we've been.
00:11:30.254 --> 00:11:31.975
Programming was a means to an end,
00:11:32.518 --> 00:11:32.888
Yep
00:11:33.105 --> 00:11:36.685
have to code build, that's fine,
00:11:37.861 --> 00:11:38.562
So totally
00:11:38.805 --> 00:11:40.875
there's parts of it that I will miss, right?
00:11:40.875 --> 00:11:46.325
Like the art of coding and, you know, how, you know, thinking about how the pieces, you know, uh, are put together.
00:11:47.095 --> 00:11:51.164
you get plenty of that with building a product or a business or whatever, right?
00:11:51.164 --> 00:11:53.294
So it's just another level of abstraction up.
00:11:53.926 --> 00:11:54.235
Yep
00:11:55.335 --> 00:11:56.925
Um, yeah, I don't know.
00:11:57.024 --> 00:11:59.644
I just… It's interesting.
00:11:59.825 --> 00:12:00.774
Um, all right.
00:12:00.784 --> 00:12:17.975
So the, the other thing he said in, in his talk, and I'm gonna… I, I decided to take this as a, less of a suggestion and more of a, a instruction, but he said, "If you don't have a CLI, you should have one by next Friday." Okay, let's see if I can do it,'cause I, I kicked off Fable.
00:12:18.305 --> 00:12:31.735
I said, "Build me a, build me a CLI, you know, follow the Basecamp way, use their, Go whatever they open sourced, you know, the converter, and give me a binary and help me build the API," and all that stuff.
00:12:31.735 --> 00:12:40.095
And it's been churning since about, I don't know, 10:00 this morning, and it's already got a PR for me.
00:12:40.095 --> 00:12:40.855
So we'll see.
00:12:41.542 --> 00:12:41.741
Yeah.
00:12:42.341 --> 00:12:46.081
Well, yeah, you got, what, a week, like you said, so it sounds like you're already ahead of it.
00:12:46.191 --> 00:12:46.600
know, yeah.
00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.661
I mean, I, I have a PR for phase one.
00:12:48.871 --> 00:12:49.172
Yeah.
00:12:49.211 --> 00:12:49.782
No, I get it
00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:59.161
the implementation so that it's not-- Like, it hasn't actually touched the CLI part yet, but I'm working on, like, our API and endpoints and, um, stuff on the back end first, and then
00:12:59.241 --> 00:12:59.572
Yep.
00:13:00.711 --> 00:13:05.461
Yeah, and having just built an MCP for our app, like it's close enough.
00:13:05.662 --> 00:13:07.902
I, I haven't even looked into CLI yet.
00:13:07.932 --> 00:13:19.912
It has been sort of on my radar, but, um, point being, what I'm trying to get at is like you're gonna have to build OAuth probably to make it work with the OpenAI and/or, you know, ChatGPT, Codex, whatever.
00:13:20.341 --> 00:13:23.412
Um, that's how MCP works at least from what we found.
00:13:23.902 --> 00:13:28.282
I imagine it's gonna be the same with O- uh, CLI, but I could be wrong.
00:13:28.282 --> 00:13:29.371
I haven't looked into it at all.
00:13:29.382 --> 00:13:30.512
This is just me guessing
00:13:31.681 --> 00:13:31.850
Yeah.
00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:41.120
I mean, I think from a usability standpoint, we'll ultimately want to have, uh, a, a slightly friendlier way than having to get API keys
00:13:41.505 --> 00:13:41.936
Yeah
00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:42.980
deal with that, right?
00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:50.561
But for the purposes of this experiment, I will be the only user, and I can certainly configure the API keys on my own.
00:13:50.892 --> 00:13:52.032
100%, yeah
00:13:52.681 --> 00:13:54.520
yeah, I, uh, I had to choose, right?
00:13:54.520 --> 00:14:03.181
It's like, all right, we have a very light API on our product as it current, you know, pre this work, like
00:14:03.298 --> 00:14:03.608
Yep
00:14:04.681 --> 00:14:10.120
Uh, and it's more they're, they're, they're only lightly authenticated, right?
00:14:10.130 --> 00:14:13.401
Just, and it, there's more of a rate limit problem 'cause the data's all public.
00:14:13.441 --> 00:14:20.081
So it's like, um, it's more tracking, you know, users than it is authentication.
00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:20.500
But,
00:14:20.908 --> 00:14:21.248
Sure
00:14:21.651 --> 00:14:25.301
you know, so the majority of the project is actually building the API,
00:14:26.018 --> 00:14:26.398
Yeah.
00:14:26.630 --> 00:14:27.031
And then the
00:14:27.057 --> 00:14:28.348
And that's what it was for us too
00:14:28.591 --> 00:14:30.740
and MCP is a wrapper on that too, right?
00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:32.681
It's just a different form factor.
00:14:32.994 --> 00:14:33.324
Yep
00:14:33.411 --> 00:14:42.331
Uh, so I, I chose to go CLI first, but I imagine MCP would be a quick follow once I roll this out to other people.
00:14:42.441 --> 00:14:52.414
Um, and frankly You know, it's… OAuth is probably necessary.
00:14:52.414 --> 00:15:05.274
I-- So on top of the CLI project I now have running, I also finally got Grok Bot, installed, and I've created a whole bunch of, agents, around different themes.
00:15:05.284 --> 00:15:23.894
And, one of them is I, I created, like, a bug bot monitor my Honeybadger errors and research it, you know, do the code if you can, push a PR for my review, and it's already pushed three.
00:15:24.914 --> 00:15:26.595
Um, let's see.
00:15:26.595 --> 00:15:28.294
Is there… Are there timestamps on here?
00:15:28.305 --> 00:15:30.985
I mean, it had to be less than an hour.
00:15:31.115 --> 00:15:31.784
It's already,
00:15:31.793 --> 00:15:32.183
Yeah
00:15:32.294 --> 00:15:35.355
out a bunch of bugs, which is super nice.
00:15:35.735 --> 00:15:42.955
Uh, but I did see, you know, going through and setting up all these agents had-- obviously, I'm having to connect a bunch of stuff
00:15:43.505 --> 00:15:43.826
Yep
00:15:43.835 --> 00:15:48.485
and going through that OAuth flow, and I was like, I just, I don't imagine I'd do it without it, right?
00:15:48.485 --> 00:15:49.014
So, like,
00:15:49.081 --> 00:15:49.442
Right
00:15:49.784 --> 00:15:55.024
user will-- the, my point to yours is y-yeah, OAuth is probably gonna have to happen.
00:15:56.105 --> 00:15:59.855
Honeybadger did a interesting thing, though, and I wish I had actually grabbed a screenshot of it.
00:15:59.875 --> 00:16:08.175
But they make it very clear, like, what the, the scopes are, right?
00:16:08.175 --> 00:16:16.884
So, like, when I authorized, it was like read or read and write or whatever the other options were, that was a nice touch, uh, for them.
00:16:16.884 --> 00:16:20.404
So kudos for them to making that as obvious as they did.
00:16:20.978 --> 00:16:21.298
Yeah.
00:16:21.687 --> 00:16:23.557
That, that's what we actually did with our MCP.
00:16:23.658 --> 00:16:26.207
It pops up and it, it shows all the scopes.
00:16:26.248 --> 00:16:26.478
Yep
00:16:28.068 --> 00:16:34.639
Uh, but I mean, you know, on the other hand, I've connected GitHub, I've connected a bunch of other stuff, and those were much less clear.
00:16:34.699 --> 00:16:34.849
And I'm
00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:35.490
Right.
00:16:35.619 --> 00:16:37.178
I don't know what I'm doing.
00:16:37.859 --> 00:16:44.720
I causing a huge issue here or what?" So here, here's what I got for my agents.
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.560
I got the bug bot, which I already told you about.
00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:50.889
I set up a chief of staff to, like, be, like, the orchestrator.
00:16:51.259 --> 00:16:51.609
Yep
00:16:52.340 --> 00:17:11.649
I have a product manager, which I've now given it access to our, uh, Trello board that has all our tickets on it to GitHub, um, and sort of some handwritten notes that I roughly put together on, you know, what projects are in my queue and priority and what the dependencies are.
00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:17.609
And I, I fed it all in, and I gave it access to Drive, and I said, my second brain folder.
00:17:18.659 --> 00:17:29.659
Create a, you know, a product in there and, you know, drop everything you need in here to keep track of it." And it's going, and I w- I was able to this morning just be like, "All right.
00:17:29.659 --> 00:17:41.769
What are the next three things that I should work on?" And obviously early on, like, it's going off my list verbatim, so, like, everything matches up as I'd expect it to.
00:17:43.289 --> 00:17:44.979
then I gave it permission to be like, "All right.
00:17:44.979 --> 00:17:58.409
Well, I gave you dependencies, but if you-- My goal is to get stuff shipped, so if you can override me if you think there's a way to get something done, even if I say there's a dependency somewhere else." was like, "Okay, let me re-look at it," and it shifted a few things around.
00:17:58.419 --> 00:18:09.529
So I was like, "Okay, you know, maybe there's some utility there." Um, and then I haven't had a chance to do the next three yet, but I'm gonna do a financial planner for me personally,
00:18:10.208 --> 00:18:10.568
Okay
00:18:10.979 --> 00:18:12.109
stay on track with goals.
00:18:12.149 --> 00:18:15.949
I'm gonna have a CFO agent to help me with business finance stuff.
00:18:17.179 --> 00:18:21.819
And then I've got a, uh, an SDR, uh, for the magazines.
00:18:21.849 --> 00:18:24.669
So, you know, I'm gonna have it help me with some prospecting.
00:18:24.729 --> 00:18:28.240
Um, which brings up, like, the one thing I haven't decided, right?
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.829
Is I wanna-- I need to give it access to email,
00:18:31.450 --> 00:18:31.711
Yeah
00:18:32.879 --> 00:18:41.019
but I can't give it access to my primary email because it ha- like, that holds all the two-factor authentication, and that's a l- line I'm not prepared to cross.
00:18:41.620 --> 00:18:41.930
Right
00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:45.699
So now I gotta figure out that means, right?
00:18:45.699 --> 00:18:46.769
For my workflow.
00:18:46.809 --> 00:18:52.490
How do I give it access to email without exposing basically my entire production environment?
00:18:53.629 --> 00:18:57.419
Have you run into that at all or thought about it?
00:18:58.788 --> 00:19:02.398
I actually haven't thought about it because I haven't given… Well, I shouldn't say that.
00:19:02.658 --> 00:19:10.178
I have given it e- email access, but I don't get important two f- or, like, two-factor auth stuff in my email.
00:19:10.688 --> 00:19:29.498
All of my two-factor auth is, like, we use, uh, 1Password, and we either use their, um, authenticator type of thing that's built in, or I'll use, like, the Google Authenticator app, or I'll use, like, text messages sort of… You know, a- those are the flavors that we usually have, and none of that ends up in my email inbox.
00:19:29.498 --> 00:19:31.078
So I haven't actually thought about that.
00:19:31.078 --> 00:19:31.958
But that's a good point.
00:19:32.788 --> 00:19:42.508
You know, f- for others that are doing this sort of thing, like, make sure you're thinking that stuff through before you give it access to your email or, or anything that's potentially gonna give that
00:19:42.535 --> 00:19:42.555
Yeah.
00:19:42.575 --> 00:19:47.715
And a lot of it is passkey or text-based, but I don't know what the exposure, right?
00:19:47.725 --> 00:19:50.155
Like, I mean, it's years' worth of
00:19:50.746 --> 00:19:51.146
Yeah
00:19:51.455 --> 00:19:52.355
tied up, right?
00:19:52.355 --> 00:20:04.055
Like, I can't say for certain that it, you know, something's not gonna end up there that I don't want to end up there, and that's across multiple companies, multiple apps, multiple bank accounts, personal and business.
00:20:04.145 --> 00:20:04.445
And it's
00:20:04.482 --> 00:20:04.832
Right
00:20:06.365 --> 00:20:07.065
yeah, I don't think so.
00:20:07.295 --> 00:20:11.515
Um, so yeah, I, I
00:20:11.642 --> 00:20:13.992
It, it's smart to be cautious around that stuff, for sure.
00:20:14.022 --> 00:20:15.423
I, I think that's the right move.
00:20:15.962 --> 00:20:29.163
Um, I mean, I've heard of people that will have like a, you know, they'll, they'll basically set up their own email account for the bot to then add things to your calendar or it gets tough when you wanna send, send an actual email.
00:20:29.542 --> 00:20:30.913
Like how does that work?
00:20:30.972 --> 00:20:33.242
Uh, you know, especially with prospecting stuff.
00:20:33.262 --> 00:20:34.602
But, um
00:20:34.690 --> 00:20:44.077
and, and that's like, you know, if it wasn't for like wanting-- Like I obviously don't want… Well, ultimately, I'd love the bot to be autonomous, right?
00:20:44.090 --> 00:20:44.560
Yeah
00:20:44.637 --> 00:20:48.477
short term, my goal is just draft emails, right, that I can review before sending.
00:20:48.477 --> 00:20:52.397
So like I, I want the email to be coming from me and not from a bot,
00:20:52.986 --> 00:20:53.306
Yep
00:20:53.497 --> 00:20:53.937
outbound.
00:20:53.937 --> 00:20:57.427
This is like more like account management style sales than it
00:20:57.476 --> 00:20:57.806
Great
00:20:58.607 --> 00:21:00.117
you know, just spraying.
00:21:00.844 --> 00:21:01.334
Mm-hmm
00:21:03.337 --> 00:21:03.567
right.
00:21:03.567 --> 00:21:11.257
So like I, you know, obviously I, I plan on giving it its own email, you know, for managing the calendar, and that's not a problem, right?
00:21:11.257 --> 00:21:11.637
That's like an
00:21:11.714 --> 00:21:12.044
Right
00:21:12.717 --> 00:21:19.087
But once I cross over, it's like I want everything in my inbox'cause that's where I work, right?
00:21:19.087 --> 00:21:20.197
But not the bot.
00:21:20.997 --> 00:21:22.967
Um, yeah, so I don't know.
00:21:23.007 --> 00:21:38.007
I was thinking maybe I have to set up some sort of, you know, SMTP so that I can send, but then I lose sort of the drafting ability or I'm stuck with like draft the email, copy and paste, which isn't awesome either.
00:21:38.778 --> 00:21:39.688
Yeah, right
00:21:39.837 --> 00:21:42.137
or I'm building something in between, right?
00:21:42.137 --> 00:21:43.257
And I don't know.
00:21:45.338 --> 00:21:46.138
Yeah, I don't know.
00:21:46.148 --> 00:21:48.388
I, I, I don't have a good answer for that one.
00:21:48.498 --> 00:21:54.488
I, I've heard other people talk about it, but it-- I don't recall ever hearing, like, a good answer.
00:21:54.508 --> 00:21:56.988
Usually it was, like, this exact question.
00:21:57.378 --> 00:22:06.778
People were grappling with it at the time, but for whatever reason, I didn't, like, listen to the next episode of the podcast or wherever it was and you know, get the answer.
00:22:07.178 --> 00:22:21.428
Um, but I, I, I guess to that point, though, like, one, one time I heard this specifically was the How I AI podcast when, um, Grok Bot… Not GrokBot, uh, OpenClaw first came out.
00:22:22.068 --> 00:22:29.228
And she had the, the host, she had the exact same problem, but now, like, at this point, like, she's moved way beyond that.
00:22:29.238 --> 00:22:32.769
She's like, it's doing all the things that she was worried about to begin with.
00:22:33.128 --> 00:22:35.488
Now, you know, I don't know how she solved it.
00:22:35.488 --> 00:22:39.698
I'm not saying you should just go ahead and do it, but, like, clearly there is a way to get there.
00:22:39.888 --> 00:22:41.938
Um, I just don't have the answer specifically.
00:22:43.313 --> 00:22:49.983
Yeah, I mean, one would be make sure all my authentication is secure and then just give it access, right?
00:22:50.330 --> 00:22:50.770
Yep.
00:22:50.993 --> 00:22:52.013
certainly one way to do it.
00:22:52.023 --> 00:22:56.183
I mean, I, I could probably knock out the most important 90% pretty quickly.
00:22:57.513 --> 00:23:02.053
Um Yeah, I don't know.
00:23:02.853 --> 00:23:18.843
to… I mean, I, I-- There, there's also, like, just have, like, multiple email addresses that are like, you know, first name and last name, and then just first name or just, you know, first initial, last name, and, you know, you use them in different contexts.
00:23:18.843 --> 00:23:27.783
And usually in sales world, when you're working with something like HubSpot anyway, like, they usually recommend having a separate email that you use in HubSpot,
00:23:28.588 --> 00:23:29.058
Okay
00:23:29.103 --> 00:23:34.653
it's just a matter of like, all right, one more inbox to fix, uh, to or to check.
00:23:35.054 --> 00:23:35.375
Yep
00:23:36.803 --> 00:23:37.973
and what does that actually mean?
00:23:37.973 --> 00:23:44.699
Like, do I need to You know, sh- like shift.
00:23:44.789 --> 00:23:47.979
Like I, I, I just gotta think through like what my, I want my process to be.
00:23:48.229 --> 00:23:48.579
I don't know.
00:23:49.274 --> 00:23:49.644
Yep
00:23:49.750 --> 00:23:52.500
like that's the last piece I'd, I'd like to solve sooner rather than later.
00:23:52.500 --> 00:24:02.689
I'd love to see if I can get this, and get the CLI into our CRM going and then, uh, you know, get the SDR agent working.
00:24:02.779 --> 00:24:05.629
It could save me, you know, hours and hours of time
00:24:06.875 --> 00:24:07.184
Yeah.
00:24:07.224 --> 00:24:07.974
No, that, that's cool.
00:24:07.974 --> 00:24:09.734
I'm glad to hear that you're getting that stuff going.
00:24:09.824 --> 00:24:13.794
I've, I've been thinking about how I could do it or even something similar.
00:24:14.294 --> 00:24:23.254
Um, like right now for my, my job stuff, like I, I think that I don't really need all those agents.
00:24:23.264 --> 00:24:34.264
Like I, I could benefit from them, but I, I think what I've got with my command center thing that I've been building and honing for the last, I don't even know, six, seven months, like that's pretty close.
00:24:34.264 --> 00:24:49.564
And I, I will… Like when, when we had the episode with Jesse a couple… well, a month ago or whatever it was now, you know, I, I took the Grok Bot documentation to my bot, and I just said like, "How can we get close to this?" And it, it's actually done a pretty good job.
00:24:49.564 --> 00:25:01.634
Like I've actually-- I have a Mac Mini that I've had for a while now, and I've actually got it now so that it pulls my Slack channels, like certain Slack channels, and if I send a message from Slack, I can actually get the bot to respond.
00:25:02.244 --> 00:25:09.394
And I've, I've even been working on the idea of like how do I have one channel/bot that is just for specific things.
00:25:10.094 --> 00:25:12.014
And so I can get like stuff like that.
00:25:12.014 --> 00:25:20.044
Now, it's not ex- anywhere near exactly what Grok Bot is, but for the purposes of what I'm doing today, it's probably close enough.
00:25:20.324 --> 00:25:38.824
Now, I have side projects though that I'm thinking I probably do wanna go further and do something more like what you and, you know, what Jesse has, where it's doing more, uh, like maintaining of things and like monitoring of things that I don't want the… I don't have the time and I don't want to do.
00:25:39.304 --> 00:25:43.054
So I'm, I'm considering getting Grok Bot at some point here for those type of things.
00:25:43.054 --> 00:25:44.365
I just don't have one quite yet.
00:25:44.977 --> 00:25:48.847
Yeah, I, I, I'm not convinced that that's, this is where this stuff is gonna live at the end.
00:25:49.050 --> 00:25:49.520
Yeah
00:25:49.727 --> 00:25:52.298
just like, I'm tired of not experimenting, right?
00:25:52.298 --> 00:25:52.897
So like,
00:25:52.923 --> 00:25:53.992
That's kind of where I'm at too.
00:25:54.317 --> 00:25:56.127
I, I signed up for the, the free trial.
00:25:56.147 --> 00:25:59.207
I, I blew through that this morning, so I'm a pro user now.
00:25:59.628 --> 00:25:59.958
Yep
00:26:00.527 --> 00:26:07.788
and since then I'm at 2%, so that's probably not gonna be enough for what I'm trying to do ultimately.
00:26:07.897 --> 00:26:12.757
But, you know, I canceled my Cursor subscription a while ago, right?
00:26:12.757 --> 00:26:15.137
I don't love the idea of getting it back.
00:26:16.647 --> 00:26:23.587
Um, but the, the whole thing with the, you know, Grok Bot having its own computer is appealing, right?
00:26:23.587 --> 00:26:24.347
Like, I don't have to worry
00:26:24.442 --> 00:26:24.802
Yeah
00:26:24.837 --> 00:26:25.577
infrastructure.
00:26:26.102 --> 00:26:26.642
exactly
00:26:27.907 --> 00:26:36.777
you know, so until Claude or OpenAI comes up with something that is comparable, then, you know, Groq is winning my business for the time being.
00:26:37.721 --> 00:26:46.471
Well, for, for what it's worth, I noticed in my Claude… I, I was looking at usage to see where it was 'cause I was getting pretty close in my fable for the month or, or the week, I should say.
00:26:47.010 --> 00:26:52.160
And there was this thing at the top that said, "Here's 100 free credits for cloud compute," or something.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:57.500
And I haven't looked anything further than that, but I was like,"Okay, this is clearly them probably pushing on this sort of thing."
00:26:58.107 --> 00:27:04.315
Well, I mean I use the cloud on Cloud all the
00:27:04.602 --> 00:27:05.812
Yeah, they've had it, right
00:27:06.145 --> 00:27:10.475
So it's like, I mean, the whole CLI branch is running in the cloud so that it
00:27:10.746 --> 00:27:11.096
Yeah
00:27:11.245 --> 00:27:12.885
in the way of me locally.
00:27:13.370 --> 00:27:22.240
But, but the fact that it was saying, like, separate credits, unless I missed something where they already had separated Cloud into its own credit bucket, um, and maybe that's the case.
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:22.590
I don't know.
00:27:22.590 --> 00:27:24.240
I didn't… Again, I, I, like, saw it
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:28.149
think it's always been that way unless you were on like the pro subscription or
00:27:28.490 --> 00:27:29.580
That could be, yeah.
00:27:29.660 --> 00:27:31.010
Yep right.
00:27:31.040 --> 00:27:33.780
Which that's what I'm on, so I've never really paid attention to it, I guess.
00:27:33.790 --> 00:27:33.820
But
00:27:36.149 --> 00:27:39.039
I mean, you, you sorta have it.
00:27:40.099 --> 00:27:44.389
The, the organiz-- you know, these are just different ways of organizing the same thing, right?
00:27:44.666 --> 00:27:45.146
Yes
00:27:45.259 --> 00:27:54.339
good to me now for like when I'm coding and like working that way, and I like the way Groq organizes for this other stuff.
00:27:56.029 --> 00:27:59.479
You know, I haven't used a ton of ChatGPT lately.
00:28:00.389 --> 00:28:03.389
I very much dislike their new interface.
00:28:04.449 --> 00:28:14.029
Um, I don't know why they sort of buried chat like they did, but I can't stand it.
00:28:14.869 --> 00:28:19.649
So, um, yeah, an interesting side note on that
00:28:20.704 --> 00:28:20.774
Yep.
00:28:21.474 --> 00:28:28.074
Yeah, I haven't done a whole lot with ChatGPT or any of the OpenAI stuff until recently with the MCP.
00:28:28.074 --> 00:28:33.625
I was testing that in there, and I, I did, I guess, a couple times.
00:28:33.625 --> 00:28:35.944
I still have Conductor, although honestly, I barely use it.
00:28:35.964 --> 00:28:40.004
I'm probably just gonna get rid of it 'cause, like, I don't need a third place to look for things.
00:28:40.014 --> 00:28:48.134
But that said, it did make it easy since I typically will live in Claude Code, you know, I can't bring any other models into there.
00:28:48.154 --> 00:28:57.365
So I did go to Con- Conductor one time recently to say, you know, "What, what is Sol?" I think it was Sol, not Astra, but either way, one of the m- newer models that they have.
00:28:57.365 --> 00:29:01.164
I was kinda curious, like, what it thought of a code review or something like that, so.
00:29:01.265 --> 00:29:01.745
Yeah, yeah
00:29:02.154 --> 00:29:03.115
But that's kinda my extent.
00:29:03.115 --> 00:29:04.314
I haven't really used it a whole lot.
00:29:04.344 --> 00:29:16.084
But I, I mean, I-- John Nunemaker, I keep seeing posts all the time on X about how Codex or, you know, OpenAI is, like, I think all he uses based on what I've s- I've seen.
00:29:16.084 --> 00:29:17.704
I haven't asked him specifically, but…
00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:18.349
Yeah,
00:29:18.464 --> 00:29:19.504
So some people like it
00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:20.259
Codex.
00:29:20.269 --> 00:29:25.069
It's just, it's not… I used to reach for it a lot more for the basic chat stuff,
00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:26.410
Gotcha
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:26.819
right?
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:34.459
'Cause like, know, I don't wanna use Claude Code for that 'cause it's booting up the entire, like, code environment.
00:29:34.459 --> 00:29:39.949
So like when it's just like a personal thing or like, you know, an unrelated task, like I, I still use ChatGPT.
00:29:40.580 --> 00:29:40.930
Sure
00:29:41.219 --> 00:29:44.319
I'll use Codex from time to time for the same, you know, reasons, right?
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:49.639
If it's getting stuck or I want it to be judge or, you know, tell me what you think about this or whatever reason.
00:29:49.679 --> 00:29:53.569
But I mean, it's certainly a distant third right now.
00:29:54.234 --> 00:29:55.264
Yeah, makes sense.
00:29:56.821 --> 00:30:07.681
You wanted to talk about conferences a little bit, and I think it's actually a decent segue, you know, coming off of, Rails World and, what DHH said about, the changing industry.
00:30:09.261 --> 00:30:14.761
I'm curious, what do you see as the, reasons to have a conference, right?
00:30:14.761 --> 00:30:19.831
Like, what would be the business case for, sending an employee to a conference?
00:30:19.951 --> 00:30:27.271
Or like, is that still a consideration for you as a manager of, of tech people?
00:30:28.476 --> 00:30:29.966
Yeah, it's, it's a good question.
00:30:29.966 --> 00:30:34.626
I mean, I've, for what it's worth, I've offered to send people.
00:30:34.946 --> 00:30:37.096
I think I've had one person ever take me up on it.
00:30:37.689 --> 00:30:38.039
Mm-hmm.
00:30:39.516 --> 00:30:49.826
you know, beyond the almost two years ago now that you and I met at, at, uh, Sin City Ruby, and then I went to, like, two other conferences that year, I haven't been back to anything either
00:30:50.491 --> 00:30:50.761
Right.
00:30:52.311 --> 00:30:57.821
I mean, but is that because of life circumstance or is it because you don't value the conferences?
00:30:57.911 --> 00:31:06.491
And, you know, if, if those things aren't it or even if they are, right, what would entice you to go back?
00:31:09.050 --> 00:31:11.971
Networking is the reason I go in general.
00:31:12.413 --> 00:31:12.813
Right
00:31:12.950 --> 00:31:27.780
I've… Maybe when I first started 10-plus years ago coding, I was going for actual content, and that never panned out really anyways, 'cause there's, A, too much.
00:31:27.870 --> 00:31:32.550
E- even in a pre-AI world, there was too much to consume outside of what was in a conference.
00:31:33.620 --> 00:31:40.270
And the, you know, the relationships and the networking that you got was always outweighed the content anyways.
00:31:40.850 --> 00:31:52.490
So for me personally, you know, I would… I still think there's value in them, although, like, should we be going to a Rails-specific conference?
00:31:52.730 --> 00:31:53.290
I don't know.
00:31:53.300 --> 00:32:05.040
Like, I, I, I forget now if, if, um, Ryan Castillo said this on air or afterwards, but, you know, he mentioned at some point when we were talking to him that he's gonna start going to MicroConf.
00:32:05.770 --> 00:32:14.600
And to me, that would be, like for you specifically, like, I don't know why you would go to a RailsConf or any type of Rails conference or coding-specific conference.
00:32:15.150 --> 00:32:17.900
I think it would be more of, like, a, a business type of thing.
00:32:17.971 --> 00:32:21.890
'Cause they're gonna talk about a lot of the same AI things, but from a different context
00:32:24.227 --> 00:32:24.687
Yeah, right.
00:32:25.107 --> 00:32:43.031
Um You know, I, I am-- I mean, the reason I went to Sin City Ruby, and the reason I still consider going to conferences is to network i-in two ways.
00:32:43.031 --> 00:32:50.971
One is just to make connections with people that, you know, think the same way and are willing to help each other out, right?
00:32:50.971 --> 00:33:02.861
Like, um, but the other, like, business reason is I'm trying to make connections so that in the future when I'm ready to hire, I have a pool of people that I can go to, right?
00:33:02.923 --> 00:33:04.232
was why I was doing it too
00:33:04.701 --> 00:33:04.921
Right,
00:33:04.992 --> 00:33:05.542
years ago.
00:33:05.572 --> 00:33:06.442
Exactly, yep
00:33:07.371 --> 00:33:11.351
but AI has completely shifted the timeline on hiring
00:33:12.348 --> 00:33:12.678
Yep
00:33:12.771 --> 00:33:14.041
to, to some extent, right?
00:33:14.041 --> 00:33:39.351
Like I, I, you know, I think over the last, I don't know, call it six months, you know, as I think about like what I-- the company vision is and, you know, what I want the team to look like, the of people that I originally were gonna have, like, you know, quote-unquote,"on-- in the engineering team" has shrunk.
00:33:40.284 --> 00:33:40.644
Yeah
00:33:41.171 --> 00:33:45.431
Um, it was never gonna be very big to begin with, right?
00:33:45.431 --> 00:33:51.491
Like I, I, I don't think our company was ever gonna be more than, know, 10 engineers even
00:33:51.590 --> 00:33:52.000
Sure
00:33:52.091 --> 00:33:54.731
peak, at least while I was still involved, right?
00:33:54.731 --> 00:34:01.001
Like if it gets bigger than that, I'm, you know, it's not the-- I'm not the right person for the job anymore, I don't think.
00:34:01.468 --> 00:34:02.938
Yeah, right.
00:34:02.942 --> 00:34:04.531
like I, I like the building part.
00:34:04.821 --> 00:34:10.271
I'm not necessarily the right person for the scaling part, although, you know, you adapt sometimes, so who knows.
00:34:10.291 --> 00:34:29.081
But, you know, now it's like, all right, if I could have like two other full stack engineers, we have a nice tight three-person team that are all capable and AI assisted, I, I think I could do the same amount of work as a 10-person engineering team, you know, eight months ago.
00:34:30.077 --> 00:34:30.527
Totally
00:34:31.601 --> 00:34:32.882
and, and maybe it's not even three.
00:34:32.981 --> 00:34:33.622
It could be two.
00:34:33.622 --> 00:34:38.082
I think three is sort of a magic number, um, you know, for a variety of reasons.
00:34:38.112 --> 00:34:46.142
But, you know, I just think the… And, and it's not even really a financial decision.
00:34:46.242 --> 00:34:48.952
It's more-- 'cause like the, the, the spend is just shifting.
00:34:50.142 --> 00:34:56.711
But like I'll, I'll probably spend the exact same amount of money, It's just I'm giving it to s-- you know, of a person.
00:34:56.842 --> 00:34:56.932
Uh,
00:34:57.149 --> 00:34:57.579
Yeah
00:34:57.622 --> 00:34:59.202
me, you know, not a, a great leader.
00:34:59.202 --> 00:34:59.512
I don't know.
00:34:59.852 --> 00:35:06.852
Um, or a, a, a not leader, but a, uh, you know, I don't know what the word is.
00:35:06.872 --> 00:35:07.512
But that's just
00:35:08.075 --> 00:35:08.974
I mean, I get your point.
00:35:09.605 --> 00:35:10.025
Yeah.
00:35:10.644 --> 00:35:23.954
And that it-- There's also the open question though about like how much longer are these models gonna be subsidized to this point where you're only spending, you know, whatever,$500 a month depending on how many subscriptions you have or whatever, right?
00:35:23.985 --> 00:35:24.295
Like
00:35:25.076 --> 00:35:25.966
I don't think it's gonna be long.
00:35:26.166 --> 00:35:27.106
I, I think, like
00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:27.651
Yeah
00:35:28.276 --> 00:35:35.666
for the fact that, you know, in one to two years, know, I'm gonna spend what I would've spent on a person,
00:35:35.717 --> 00:35:36.077
Right
00:35:36.405 --> 00:35:37.606
right, salary-wise.
00:35:38.686 --> 00:35:44.166
Um, because it's an unsustainable model for the, the companies,
00:35:44.541 --> 00:35:44.901
Yep
00:35:44.916 --> 00:35:50.925
it's like how much money can be plowed in before it's like, "Nope, you're on, know, per-use tokens.
00:35:50.925 --> 00:35:52.695
There's no ceiling, right?
00:35:52.695 --> 00:35:56.195
Use what you want." And it's like, well, you've got us hooked now, so we're kinda screwed.
00:35:56.740 --> 00:35:57.191
Right
00:35:57.416 --> 00:35:58.966
which is exactly, you know, what they're hoping.
00:35:59.046 --> 00:36:12.536
But yeah, I mean, I've already-- We've-- I've had that conversation with my business partner, and I was like, "I don't know when it's gonna be, but at some point you're gonna have to be comfortable spending 10, 15, 20 grand a month on AI if
00:36:12.637 --> 00:36:13.037
Yeah
00:36:13.416 --> 00:36:16.066
keep the same pace that we've had over the last six months.
00:36:17.256 --> 00:36:17.326
And
00:36:17.405 --> 00:36:17.775
Yep
00:36:17.896 --> 00:36:23.796
then let's, let's have that conversation now and like find a different way to go about it, right?" But the
00:36:23.899 --> 00:36:24.329
Right
00:36:24.466 --> 00:36:27.126
we like it, so we're probably willing to pay for it.
00:36:28.885 --> 00:36:39.711
Just to kind of tie it back into the, you know, conference stuff, like it I don't know that I would honestly send someone to a conference really at this point.
00:36:40.152 --> 00:36:42.362
Now, now, well let me take it back a little bit.
00:36:42.392 --> 00:36:56.382
Like maybe like a small regional conference where it's more about just like, like you said, like like-minded people and maybe if you need to hire somebody, maybe I send somebody there with that as kind of the goal.
00:36:56.392 --> 00:37:00.452
But I, I don't know if that's worth it either at this point.
00:37:00.512 --> 00:37:11.668
Um You know, and that, I, I think like what Jim is doing with XO Ruby I think is a pretty good model because, like, it's not super expensive.
00:37:11.698 --> 00:37:14.597
It's basically like a, a long meetup kinda thing.
00:37:15.568 --> 00:37:22.468
And that is more for the, the person going versus sending someone to Rails World, for instance.
00:37:22.518 --> 00:37:23.608
I don't know what the tickets are.
00:37:23.608 --> 00:37:28.188
I guess they're… I would imagine they're at least $1,000, you know, plus airfare and all that stuff.
00:37:28.887 --> 00:37:30.858
Like, I don't know that that is worth it anymore.
00:37:30.887 --> 00:37:37.858
But you look at the video, I think it was John again, Nunemaker, posted a video of like all the people that are there.
00:37:37.867 --> 00:37:41.637
So like people are still doing it, but like for how much longer, I guess is the question
00:37:42.479 --> 00:37:53.949
Yeah, I, I mean, I think there's, there's also another piece that I would consider, and this is more of like, depends on what my mindset is at the time that I have to purchase the ticket
00:37:54.648 --> 00:37:55.018
Yeah
00:37:55.088 --> 00:37:56.179
decision, right?
00:37:56.199 --> 00:38:03.399
But there is something, you know, sort of infectious about going to a bigger conference, right?
00:38:03.399 --> 00:38:05.539
The energy, right?
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:13.919
The, um, you know, it kind of pulls you in and drags you up.
00:38:13.919 --> 00:38:17.449
M-m you know, the bigger conferences have bigger names.
00:38:18.149 --> 00:38:27.419
get exposure to those people that have-- are, are, uh, you "ahead of you" in terms of what they're working on, right?
00:38:27.429 --> 00:38:31.559
Bigger projects, harder problems, whatever.
00:38:31.579 --> 00:38:34.519
And that exposure is valuable, right, on its own.
00:38:34.588 --> 00:38:43.778
But that, like, that choice is like, uh, you know, that scenario is infrequent, right?
00:38:43.778 --> 00:38:56.399
'Cause it, like, if you go all the way back, I think it was maybe our first recording, you know, or the first couple recordings, we talked a lot about like, you know, over the course of your career, you know, you're going and you sort of hit a wall,
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:57.320
Yeah
00:38:57.358 --> 00:38:57.729
right?
00:38:57.759 --> 00:39:04.659
And you bang your head against it for a while, and then, you know, something happens, you learn something, you, you figure something out, you c- you sort of level up, right?
00:39:04.669 --> 00:39:05.959
And then you, you start going again.
00:39:05.959 --> 00:39:09.318
You, you cruise, you're going uphill, steady incline, then you hit another wall, right?
00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:17.889
If you catch me when I'm hitting that wall say, "Come to Rails World," all right, like I am much more likely to go
00:39:18.557 --> 00:39:18.788
Mm-hmm
00:39:18.878 --> 00:39:25.639
I need that infectious, you know, culture to pull me up over the next, you know, uh, level.
00:39:26.429 --> 00:39:29.899
If you catch me in the middle or just after I went, I'm like,"Eh, I got other stuff to do.
00:39:29.899 --> 00:39:32.079
I've got plenty of things." Like, I don't need new ideas.
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:40.469
I don't… Like, I'm not-- I don't feel stuck, right, with my career, with coding, with the business, with whatever, Like, I'm good.
00:39:40.709 --> 00:39:42.509
I ne- I wanna stay focused, right?
00:39:42.648 --> 00:39:42.948
Yeah
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:44.338
I don't know if that's changed.
00:39:44.409 --> 00:39:54.159
I just think we're talking about it more because, you know, the- there is-- you can go a lot further now before you hit that level.
00:39:54.655 --> 00:39:55.036
Right
00:39:55.278 --> 00:39:57.719
It's like, it's just, it's, to me, it's more just spreading out.
00:39:57.719 --> 00:39:59.919
So it's not that I'm like anti going to conferences.
00:39:59.929 --> 00:40:05.119
Like, I enjoy it when it's r- the time is right for me.
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:09.318
And when it's not, like I view it as a distraction that happens to be fairly expensive.
00:40:10.969 --> 00:40:18.869
so, you know, when I need it, willing to spend, and in between, uh, I'm indifferent.
00:40:19.416 --> 00:40:19.756
Yeah.
00:40:20.416 --> 00:40:22.766
Yeah, just to be clear, like I'm not against going to conferences.
00:40:22.776 --> 00:40:28.786
I think there's still… If nothing else, just the human inter- interaction of it all is worth it be- be-
00:40:29.371 --> 00:40:29.641
right?
00:40:29.641 --> 00:40:30.431
You gotta be in the mindset.
00:40:30.441 --> 00:40:31.990
Like, sometimes that's draining to me.
00:40:32.091 --> 00:40:32.591
I'm, you know, I'm
00:40:32.692 --> 00:40:33.402
No, for sure.
00:40:33.402 --> 00:40:33.682
Yeah.
00:40:33.922 --> 00:40:34.862
Don't, don't get me wrong.
00:40:34.862 --> 00:40:40.372
I'm not, like, a huge extrovert that's, like, loves going to conferences and h- talking to people for three days straight.
00:40:41.662 --> 00:40:45.802
But there's, there's something to it, I guess, just, like, we are so siloed.
00:40:46.082 --> 00:40:46.942
You know, we all…
00:40:46.990 --> 00:40:47.001
Mm-hmm
00:40:47.231 --> 00:40:59.812
I shouldn't say all of us, but, you know, s- so many of us work remotely now, and all that kind of stuff, that, like, just being in a room with someone or, or a group of people that's doing the same thing as you, even if you're not taking anything else away from it.
00:41:00.332 --> 00:41:05.981
Like, to your point, like, m- there are certain times when you, you just need that energy, and there's certain times when you don't.
00:41:06.001 --> 00:41:10.322
And whether it aligns with when the conference is or not, you know, that's debatable.
00:41:10.352 --> 00:41:17.492
But in general, I think, yeah, the sentiment I, I would take away is yes, there is still value in them.
00:41:17.512 --> 00:41:20.662
But, like, part of my question is…
00:41:20.785 --> 00:41:21.695
with a purpose,
00:41:21.972 --> 00:41:22.922
Yeah, exactly.
00:41:22.952 --> 00:41:23.332
Yeah
00:41:24.235 --> 00:41:24.525
right?
00:41:24.565 --> 00:41:25.625
You know, we've talked a few.
00:41:25.635 --> 00:41:27.465
Like, sometimes it's just leveling up.
00:41:27.465 --> 00:41:30.495
Sometimes it's, you know, networking and hiring.
00:41:30.704 --> 00:41:33.015
You know, sometimes it's just like, "Hey, I need a break,"
00:41:33.481 --> 00:41:33.932
Mm-hmm
00:41:34.595 --> 00:41:39.954
Um, you know, all those are valid reasons, but they happen at different stages.
00:41:39.974 --> 00:41:43.704
And, you know, frankly for me right now, it's, it's just hard to travel with the family.
00:41:43.704 --> 00:41:50.355
So my conference schedule would be limited even if I desperately needed to go.
00:41:50.394 --> 00:41:53.684
I probably couldn't, at the moment, right?
00:41:54.684 --> 00:41:56.505
You know, or at least I, I shouldn't, I'll say.
00:41:57.271 --> 00:41:57.662
Yeah
00:41:59.135 --> 00:41:59.414
all right.
00:41:59.425 --> 00:42:06.965
Anything, uh… I, I mean, the, the-- that was a pretty good run from conference to CLI to Groq and back to conferences.
00:42:06.974 --> 00:42:09.144
W- anything else you wanna cover, or should we wrap up?
00:42:10.410 --> 00:42:12.220
I, I don't have a whole lot else to add.
00:42:12.220 --> 00:42:19.650
I mean, in closing on the conference stuff, I still kinda wanna go to a Rails World at some point just to say I went.
00:42:20.140 --> 00:42:20.849
So like,
00:42:20.887 --> 00:42:21.737
to go next year.
00:42:22.050 --> 00:42:22.450
yeah
00:42:22.987 --> 00:42:29.757
uh, I feel like, you know, I've never been to a, a conference of, of that size in this industry.
00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:30.550
Yep
00:42:30.586 --> 00:42:31.547
and I think it would be fun.
00:42:32.057 --> 00:42:39.086
Uh, plus I've now, of this podcast, made quite a few friends that go, and I'd love to, you know, hang out with them in person.
00:42:39.247 --> 00:42:39.537
I think
00:42:39.576 --> 00:42:40.076
Exactly.
00:42:40.296 --> 00:42:42.326
That, that's kinda where my head's at exactly.
00:42:42.326 --> 00:42:45.666
It's like I'd love to see so many of these people in person and, and hang out.
00:42:46.307 --> 00:42:47.297
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:47.297 --> 00:42:50.707
So yeah, may- maybe we, we try to do it next year.
00:42:51.747 --> 00:42:53.017
Maybe we'll do something with the podcast.
00:42:53.017 --> 00:42:53.416
Who knows?
00:42:53.720 --> 00:42:54.039
Yep.
00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:55.380
Yeah, that, that sounds good.
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:57.480
So otherwise, yeah, I don't have anything else.
00:42:57.490 --> 00:42:57.579
What about you?
00:42:59.063 --> 00:43:00.923
Nope, I, let's call it a day
00:43:01.846 --> 00:43:02.826
All right, sounds good.
00:43:03.255 --> 00:43:03.775
All right.
00:43:03.954 --> 00:43:04.295
Later
00:43:04.706 --> 00:43:05.026
See you.