Transcrição completa de What Actually Gets You Ahead in Big Tech: Microsoft TPM Peretz Cohen Talks Personal Branding

roles. In the day to day, your role might be very narrow, four by four. one thing that's really important is understanding context. Don't move out of the space. But in order to do work that is effective to pass to that next team, you have to have a larger kind of set of contexts. The other piece, or whether he separates you, is personal branding. Being kind of unabashed about your accomplishments, about your ability to execute in these environments. It may seem kind of like shameless, but it is honestly the way to project the confidence you need. The other piece, is personal branding. to have those conversations and get into those rooms. Emily Nelson de Velasco: have those conversations and get into those rooms. Absolutely, and that makes me think of a study that I heard that showed that the highest performers are not the ones who get promoted necessarily, it's the ones who everybody likes. the highest performers are not the ones who get promoted necessarily, it's the ones who everybody likes. Peretz: It's a really important factor. We forget that behind these brand names are rooms of people with the same dynamics we see in other areas of work and in life. And it's about really, can you build those relationships to get in the door? But then beyond that, can you build the relationships that allows you to progress your career? Emily Nelson de Velasco: Absolutely. And do you feel comfortable telling us a little bit more about like how that is for you? Like is that something that comes naturally to you or do you feel like that's like a skill that you've had to build over the course of your career? Peretz: Yeah, I think some aspects of it are natural, but some of it, like any other scholar, practiced. I think it's understanding. I mean, there's naturally, there's people you gravitate towards, people you want to work with. The wisdom is learning, maybe I can connect with someone who sees things very differently than me. And actually a lot of some of my most fulfilling projects were ones with coworkers where at first I'm like, I'm not really in line with them. I don't see where they're going. This is kind of a waste of my time. But over time after connecting, I learned to appreciate their perspective and actually do a lot more than I could have done on my own and just kind of following the beat of my own drum. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Right, okay, amazing. So a little bit of both. That's the nature of the women in group. Absolutely. I mean, if it doesn't come natural to you, then it's definitely a skill that needs to be built up. And I feel like it's a really, really important one when it comes to, you know, not only like doing good work right now, but like also career progression, right? Peretz: Yeah. A little bit of nature, a little bit of nurture. Emily Nelson de Velasco: If you're putting good stuff down, then somebody's gonna be picking it up, and if you're visible, even better. But definitely, having that and being able to be that person that people wanna be in the room with and is open to ⁓ other opinions ⁓ and ⁓ other areas is gonna just help you the way. Peretz: Exactly. Emily Nelson de Velasco: with the background that you have, ⁓ you talk little bit about, you know, bridging technical infrastructure and business outcomes. So what does that actually look like on a day-to-day basis? Peretz: Yeah, on a more micro level, it's understanding what does it take to operationalize a process, to deliver a new website from both vantage points. There's engineering goals and engineering North Stars in terms of the best clean design patterns to use and best practices. Then there's also kind of the business timelines, maybe some of the marketing and branding considerations. And so I think it's really important to balance both. There can be things that may seem infeasible on either end, but that's where you kind of add some of that creative thinking to see kind of where can you push the bounds on each side to really kind of ultimately deliver the outcome. And I think this is some of the complexity that kind of arises within technical program management, because it really depends where do you report to. Do you ladder up to the marketing function? Do you ladder up to the engineering function? And some of that changes how you execute. If you're part of an engineering team, both your allegiance and your positioning should be morphed through that lens. And if you're on the marketing org, your view shifts as well. And this is both practical in terms of growing your career and knowing who holds the keys to your career. but it's also an opportunity to view the same problem from different perspectives. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Mm-hmm and would you mind telling us a little bit about ⁓ know what that looks like for you specifically at Microsoft? What does that look like in your day-to-day? What projects are you working on? What teams are you ⁓ with? Peretz: Yeah, so I can't speak to current projects, but overall that looks like, no, you're completely fine. That can be anything from, we have a marketing campaign. These are the creatives. How do we deliver them? This can be, we have X budget on Google cloud. How do we cut this? This can be putting together a simple project plan for a team to get from point A to point B. Emily Nelson de Velasco: can speak to current projects. Okay. Sorry. Peretz: And I think within being a technical program manager, there are aspects of the roles that are very maybe perceived as grunt work. But honestly, those are the breadcrumbs that build trust with stakeholders and allow you to take on these large kind of resume crowning pieces. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Wonderful. And can you tell me a little bit more about that grunt work? What does that look like? If you're able to go into detail. Peretz: Yeah. So the groundwork can be anything from putting together a project plan, taking an hour sitting down with stakeholders and figuring out where they're blocked or what's, what's kind

of keeping them from getting into where they need to be. If you're following up with team members in the same topic number of times, you can just kind of continue to do that, or you can stop and have those conversations. And that's a little bit more strategic, but it's, you're taking an hour out your day and you're walking through someone's workflow and just kind of getting that. clarity. That's it's a big it's a big piece of it. And I think some of it is also some more manual, like, sometimes you have to update the tickets, sometimes you have to submit forms, sometimes you to take all the notes. But it's figuring out how to do that intelligently. So you're not kind of pigeoning hole yourself as someone who's more like an assistant role because a program manager doesn't really sit in that area. But when you need to stepping up, I think it's there's you have general rules. but knowing when it's important to step outside of that for the good of the team. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Hmm. speaking of team, what ⁓ does like typical team ⁓ look like, know, inside of technical program manager's area of expertise? does that team consist of? Peretz: Yeah, I think it's, in my experience, it's one of like the loosest terms. Like when it comes to program management, it wears so many hats. I mean, you have it in software, you have it in construction. ⁓ But I think it's a sign of maturation. It's adjacent to product operations in a sense. So it's really when you have a team that's starting to ship things, how do we ship that in a maintainable way? How do we ship that in a responsible way? How do we move? pieces around how do we get assets from point A to point B, how do we get development projects across the finish line. So there's a lot of, it's really kind of that strategic piece, but I've worked with teams where we have design, UX researchers, engineering, product management, and I've worked on teams where it's like three stakeholders. And it's like, we have the person in charge of this function, the person in charge of engineering, and you kind of connect the dots. So it really is a scalable, based on the organization's needs. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Wow. Interesting. And looking again at ⁓ your history here, I you haven't always been a technical program manager. So I would be interested in hearing a little bit about what that progression was like for you from the beginning of your career and how you ended up where you are today. Peretz: Yeah. So I was always drawn to engineering. used to go to a lot of meetups in my late teen years and early twenties and being around hacker spaces and building things. And when I started doing that professionally, I realized like while I enjoyed coding, I actually also enjoyed like the running of the business and seeing the tangible impact as well. So over time I moved from engineering more into operational roles and then kind of I found this happy medium of technical program management. where I was still kind of engaged in

technical conversations and technical implementation, but I also had a really great line of sight into the bottom line. How do we improve the product for customers? How do we reach end users and not as at times engineering can feel a little bit more detached because you're building the product, but you hand it off and you don't even know what happens next. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Hmm, okay. So you wanted to get a little bit more businessy and how did that move occur? Was it really intentional? Did you plan your career path right out of college or was that an evolution for you? Peretz: Yeah, think initially my goal had always been to be an engineer and that was my goal. But after doing that for a number of years, I started kind of, I came across an opportunity for a more operational role. And at first it was like, this is a big shift. This is a bit of a not smart career move to be making, to be moving from to software engineering to a less lucrative field in operations. ⁓ But over time, I think it was... smaller sequential moves where I progressed in more complex operational roles that eventually opened the door to kind of come back to that middle ground. And I think it's a bit of a risk, but I think when you understand, and for me the goal was I was in smaller startups doing kind of strategy operations, engineering work in those first years of my career. And I wanted to get into big tech. And the opportunity was a contract role in customer service with Snapchat, not glorious work, but a great brand name. And what I thought about then was this is an opportunity to get into big tech. And it was because that first contract role enabled the next contract role enabled my full-time roles after that. So really is about kind of being the room and building that personal brand equity. that enables companies to trust you and bring you onto these projects. Emily Nelson de Velasco: interesting okay and you talked a little bit about how you know you start off like quite technical, right? You started off really on the technical side of things and then moved more into operations. Did you find it difficult later when you kind of came back to find that happy medium of where you are today? Did you find that it was difficult to get back into the technicality of your work? Or was it really just like riding a bike for you? Peretz: So I think something that I was very lucky in is A, it's always a side hobby. I'm always like following tech and building things on the side. And even in my roles before I became a technical program manager, I was on teams and I would always ask and look like, what are the skunk work projects? What are the side things that I can do? And like, I have a couple of two hours after the end of my day, what can I do? And I would ask engineering teams, like you have a backlog of these bugs. Can I help with them? And they were like, sure. Like, we don't have the time to do it. Like, knock yourself out. And that was a way for me to kind of, keep fresh and learn about other aspects of the team. I think it was like part of that theme of like, even though I was doing operational work, there was a part of me that's always just pulled there and was kind of a foreshadowing of what my role would morph into. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Amazing. Yeah, I mean more than intentionality. It's also like initiative, right? Just being that go-getter not only like talking to people but you know taking on additional tasks Peretz: And I will say, I definitely want to caveat, like it's having to do that multiple times because I would bring it up at first and they'd be like, we're okay. Like just focus on your work. So it's knowing who to have the conversation with when like all the, the five W's like when, what, why, and how it's, and it's being persistent and also understanding like what's the value in it for them. Like for me, like I want to grow my career. I want to work on fun things, but why. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Hahaha! Peretz: Why should they take time out of their day to help connect you to that? So it's figuring out like what's pointing to a backlog. They're like, sure, please go do that. So it's aligning incentives. ⁓ Emily Nelson de Velasco: ⁓ Yeah. I feel like not only when it comes to like shifting from one trajectory, one vertical into another, ⁓ but if you're looking to like level up, right? Always just like taking on additional responsibilities, already trying to, you know, function at that next level to demonstrate that you have the ability to do so, so that you can, you know, get that promotion when review time comes around. ⁓ is really the way to approach it. if there are people out there listening who are wanting to move, do you have any additional tips for them? So we've talked about being visible, taking on ⁓ extra work. Is there any other insider tips that you have that you can share with us? Peretz: Yeah, so I think when it comes to what you mentioned about vertical growth, it really is about performing at that next level, not only for promotion, but to kind of to get that stamp from stakeholders that this person is executing and bringing the company value, especially in today's Beyond that, it really is about the personal brand. And I think Emily Nelson de Velasco: Mm-hmm. Peretz: A sales mindset is important, not just if you're an entrepreneur, but even if you're in a big tech company or a smaller company, who are the stakeholders? Who makes the decisions? What's important to them? I think something earlier on is I worked in a lot of impactful projects, but leadership didn't necessarily care about them. You could work on a project that saves the company a lot of money, but if they're, they're kind of their current obsession is the format of a logo. on a specific page, you want to be aligned there. And part of it is contributing to the bottom line of the business, but part of it is contributing to the bottom line of executive leadership goals. ⁓ And understanding the context. They

may be obsessing over the logo because that's the edge that gives them a benefit over the competitors. So it's really understanding that. I think in progressing to other domains, it's having the conversations. watching videos, reading blogs, learning about that other area. You can get like training on the skills. What's even more important is learning the soft skills of that domain. And that's what's helped me as a technical program manager is I understand the soft skills of engineering. I understand the soft skills of marketing. What are the goals? What are they saying? And what's behind what they're saying? understanding the culture and climate of a role, not just what you're doing is important to know if you'll be a good fit for it. Can you brand yourself to move into that space beyond just like, enjoy using Figma so I want to become a designer. Like you need to learn a little bit more of the context. Emily Nelson de Velasco: for it, can you brand yourself to move into that space beyond just like, enjoy using Figma so I want to become a designer. Right. Absolutely. And I can say that from my experience as well, that's something that I really leaned into too when I started recruiting. I came from a higher ed background, so I didn't have, I was completely new. I was working for a company for the first time. I'd never recruited. It was tech. Everything was just weird and crazy. And they put me on hiring for BI. And I didn't know what that was, right? I didn't come into this knowing what SQL was or Python and how we use that in our business and what it does for the bottom line of the company. ⁓ So for me, it was really important to gain as much information as possible. And I was on the campus team, so I was traveling around the country going to different events. And one of the times I asked if I could actually bring a team member with me from BI. We took a trip, I went with this guy, we went to a recruiting event, and then of course, like, he didn't know the area and I knew the area, and I was like, hey, do want me to take you for dinner? So I took him out for dinner, ⁓ we sat down at the table, was just the two of us, and I just sat there and I asked him about what he does in granular detail for about two hours, and he was so kind to be able to explain that to me. And you know, he was having a great time because I took him out, ⁓ you know, showed him like some local place that he hadn't been before. And then I think also I didn't get feedback from him about that, but I think he really enjoyed like somebody like really wanting to learn and see him as an authority in the space. So I felt like it was almost like a compliment for him. ⁓ And then after that, of course, you I started doing better at my job. So I think that he probably also really saw the, you know, the consequence of that conversation is that he's getting a better result from that as well. ⁓ So wholeheartedly with ⁓ that as a strategy for ⁓ gaining friends and influencing people ⁓ in your career. ⁓ Peretz: Definitely, I know for myself, my best talent conversations were when I saw that the recruiter truly understand the domain and understood the implications and what it was like to be in the role. Because you can better understand the candidates' motivations and what they're looking for, as opposed to if you're reading from a list of specifications. ⁓ Emily Nelson de Velasco: Right. Right, absolutely. And you know, that being said, I want to go back to something else that you mentioned a couple of times, which is personal brand. And it sounds to me like ⁓ you're thinking of personal brand, Peretz: Yeah. Emily Nelson de Velasco: you're portraying personal brand in context of who you are inside your company. So basically, you know, the people who are sitting next to you, the people who are, you know, down the hall in your company. But then when it's time to make a move, how have you been able to like leverage that personal brand ⁓ from one company to the next? Peretz: Yeah, so I think there's two layers of it. I think there's like the general personal branding profession, which is a separate subject, but specifically in like in the employment aspect. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Mm. Peretz: at first, it's a of confidence in knowing yourself and your abilities. And then over time, it's almost like building a quilt. You have more pieces ⁓ to your At first, it's like, hey, I did this ⁓ at Snapchat. it's like, hey, I did this at Snapchat and Google. And ⁓ your narrative But the starting place for it is really understanding your competencies, ⁓ both the and the soft skills. and being comfortable with presenting yourself. Understanding like the basic thing is like reading the job description or understanding the industry, like from that initial conversation with the recruiter, getting really good at distilling your experience in a narrative, in a conversational format. Cause we all have like a billion things, like I worked on this project and that project, but if someone's like talking to you, it becomes incoherent and they can't really like place like why. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Right. ⁓ Peretz: How should I make them join my team? Like it doesn't make a lot of sense to them. So really distilling, focusing on one aspect. What do you want to be known for? And kind of doing that exercise to answer those questions helps you along in the interview stages. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Awesome. So doing the exercise to answer those questions. Peretz: Yeah, that it's having the right mental model helps you communicate the right details. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Alright, mental model, very important. Also, what were the concrete steps that you took in the preparations for ⁓ those interviews or those chats that you were having with people at different companies? Peretz: Yeah, I think a really important piece is to understand how to frame your experience as it maps to business objectives. There's a model that Google likes a lot, the STAR method of

situation, task, action result. And for my Google interviews, I ⁓ practice lot. I had like 10 STAR examples, and make sure you don't reuse examples because ⁓ all feedback is noted. But that was part of the preparation I did. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Yes. Peretz: Beyond just talking about a personal brand and narrative, it's how do you brand situations? What was your role in it? And sometimes people can be overly humble and like, facilitated like, no, own the piece of the impact you have, because that's another secret to getting promoted. If you say, facilitated this high level initiative, people say, so why should I promote you? Like you're a good facilitator, but can you actually lead a project? Can I trust you with the budget? or we need to lean on someone else. So really understanding how you brand each situation and understanding the context of the interview also. Some will be more behavioral, some will be more technical or domain specific, and that changes how you arrive in those conversations. Emily Nelson de Velasco: and have changes how you arrive in those conversations. Amazing. you know, just like I like to tell the people that I work with, know, practice makes better. So I don't like... Peretz: Indeed, I had a lot of practice interviews and they're not fun. I can't say I love them, but it taught me a lot and prepared me well. Emily Nelson de Velasco: And you know it's not fun, and it's better to have that one That's not fun or those ten those five or ten or twenty that aren't fun before you go into the room where it actually counts Right okay awesome All right, so that being said you are a big tech insider You know what I'm gonna ask next ⁓ Peretz: nicely. Go for it. Emily Nelson de Velasco: So I would love, and I know a lot of times the people that I work with, they would love to break into big tech. It's not so much the people who have already landed there, it's like the people who see themselves and they know they have the skills, they know they have the talent, and it is just like, it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time, being able to present yourself well, and having the skills that are necessary for the job. you've told us a little bit about what's important when it comes to landing the role. What about when you actually land there? Like, what is it like to work in big tech? And ⁓ we don't necessarily to name any names ⁓ if you don't to. ⁓ But you know, heard things. We've heard things out there. can be a little rough out there from what we hear out on the street. ⁓ Peretz: Yeah, so I think each company is unique in its culture and I think there's a perception on the outside. And the culture really comes down to your local team, to your director, to your VP. You could be at a company that has a really harsh reputation, but amazing internal culture in that product area. So that's why it's really important to talk to people before you join, not just the hiring manager, but other people on the team who you'll be

working with. After the hiring manager... is a level or two above the people you actually report to. So it's good to ask those questions and know that. I think on one hand, when it comes to benefits and environment, like it's definitely very, very generous in that space. I think what's difficult is you're working with a lot of very smart and talented people and the ways of working. I think it's good to have clarity in what you want in your career. I think Emily Nelson de Velasco: right. Yeah, for sure. ⁓ Peretz: Growing up, I always wanted to be in big tech and I got my dream as it were. And parts of it were really incredible. I worked on products with such big scale, worked with a lot of talented people. But there's a flip side to that. You're joining something that is humongous. So your personal level of impact becomes a lot smaller. And your ability to steer and direct your career can often come down to that personal branding aspect. And I know I'm personally someone who is driven by the output of my work and less on the narrative on it. So at times I did struggle with that. Over time, I'm starting to shift more to the branding aspect. So I think that's something good for the future. But I think it's important. Like, why do you want to work in Big Tech? Do you want just the brand name? Do you want to have those great free lunches? ⁓ Even though lot of big tech that's going away as well, a lot of big tech companies, people pay for the lunches now. ⁓ Or do you want to something tremendous and big in a time of AI, the opportunity to do that is all over the place. And there's, there's like lower level kind of companies. mean, you can go take a look at some of the tech ETFs. You can see there's like the big brand name companies and other companies that have a lot of market share, but aren't in everyone's conversations. And you can still have the benefit of a great tech environment. Emily Nelson de Velasco: We have this great free lunches. Even a lot of big tech events come in the way as well. Right. Peretz: forward thinking, great benefits, without being the place that everyone else is trying to get into. So I would say like, it is a great place to be, but there are lot of other great places to be. And it's not to say that because it's hard to get into, but because if you want to do your best work, there might be other better avenues to do that, while not reducing like how it is amazing to be in those spaces. I don't want to take away from that, but I do want to like provide alternative thinking as well. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Absolutely. And I mean, you mentioned a lot of people want to go into big tech, and you wanted to go into big tech. And I imagine that you did probably have some kind of ⁓ perception of what that would be like. So what was it for you that initially was drawing you in? What did you think it would be like? And then was it like that? Peretz: Yeah. So I think for me, what drew me to Big Tech is, mean, you learn and read about the early days about how a lot of these founders build these companies. And there's a certain level of audacity and kind of expansiveness. mean, a lot of more companies from more legacy industries, things are really kind of have a certain rhythm, a certain hum. There's less disruption. There's less blue sky and creative thinking as it were. And I think that is is present. A lot of the people you meet are extremely talented, well-educated, creative. But over time, as these companies become larger and become the legacy companies in themselves, the appetite for risk decreases. So you have an interesting situation where you have people who came there for the initial culture, but the ground is shifting beneath their feet. So it's you still working a lot of great things and these companies are still in the middle of even disrupting themselves. Emily Nelson de Velasco: So you have an interesting situation. have people who came there for the neutral culture, but the ground is shifting beneath their feet. you're still working a lot of great things, and these companies are still in the middle of even disrupting themselves. But there is that tension between safety and market share and experimentation and... Peretz: But there is that tension between safety and market share and experimentation and doing the things that are really kind of fresh and exciting. Emily Nelson de Velasco: I mean if you do end up working for you know one of the smaller companies I mean there's a lot of innovation out there right now like people people are doing things Speaking of people ⁓ of people doing things you and I are both doing things right now What are you doing? Can you tell us a little bit about that? Peretz: It's incredible, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so for me, talking about kind of like talking to people in different domains and learning about their careers, in 2024, I decided I'm having these conversations, why not record them and share them? And that started me building out a brand of past, present, future, future is spelled with a P as well, pH. And it started off as career conversations, talking to people I knew, talking to people I met on LinkedIn. in different domains and really learning about their career paths and the choices they made along the way. I made certain decisions in my career that in hindsight look amazing, but at the time they were definitely difficult. And I think talking to other people helps me get a better sense and shares with my audience that we're all kind of figuring it out. We're all motivated by, want to be working at this big brand name. I want to work in this certain role. And we all kind of figured out. certain signposts and frameworks that help guide us along that path. And yeah, in addition to that, because I'm having career conversations, I've compiled ⁓ some of my career advice and made an ebook out of it. And that's a learning process as well. How do you create an ebook? How do you price it? What do you list it? How do you typeset it?

There's a lot of different questions that come up. I've vibe coded career web applications and that was like exposing myself to more vibe coding. different platforms, how you think about the user experience. So for me, it really is both an opportunity to build a personal brand around having these conversations and also learn a lot in the process. So overall, it's been a very positive experience and also adding that layer for me overall of learning how to brand myself, how to show up online. So not just for this personal hobby project, but overall, I understand how to better present myself. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Amazing. Yeah, and it just goes to show that what you do outside of work can be so relevant to you landing your next job. And I love the fact that you're mentioning vibe coding right now. You're a highly technical person who's vibe coding their web apps. This is really cool. And there are so many people out there who are, they're leaning into vibe coding, they're working on their own projects. yesterday I had two conversations where people ⁓ who had vibe coded really cool tools that you know they didn't market on a large scale they didn't get a lot of sales if any at all and they just say something like ⁓ yeah I don't know I don't know if this is relevant to my job, but I mean, everyone is swimming in the sea of AI right now. Like I feel like people are trying and companies are trying to, you know, leverage AI inside their business. And I think seeing someone doing that on their own outside of work is so attractive. to potential employers. So just side note to anyone, if you are working on projects, if you're building apps, whatever you're building, put it out there. If you're on Lovable, for example, you can get like this Lovable certificate that shows your level of vibe coding. Toss it up on your LinkedIn profile. It says something about you. Peretz: completely agree and it's the same principle for podcasting or blogging. It's putting your work out there and sure you might not get even a fraction of percent of market share, but it's showing potential employers that you know these tools and you're learning it by yourself. They're not paying for the training. You're doing that hands-on training yourself. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Absolutely Absolutely, yeah, so it shows you're a go-getter and and you got the skills so go out do it and then Brand yourself with it make it part of your personal brand Okay, so that being said I know that you're building you've built some tools I played with some of them myself so for anybody out there who wants to do something really fun. What was it called? Peretz: So the homepage to get to all those apps, you have past, present, future, with the pH, and then .netlify.app. That's like the homepage for the different. And they're aligned with my brand. I have an application called past, application called present, an application called future. It's really kind of part of that overall brand theme. Emily Nelson

de Velasco: have played with some of these tools and the one that I really enjoyed was the past tool. And so basically what you do is you ask about your favorite TV show or movie or book or whatever the case may be and you talk about your past job. And then it asks you a bunch of questions based on the TV show. ⁓ you know, like really making these analogous comparisons to what happened in the TV show and it comes out with like your overall profile ⁓ as it aligns with that story and that narrative. And I did mine on the Americans. I really like the spy shows. And it was really funny and I thought it was so on point and I had never thought about it that way. So I mean for me that was really like a fun way to start thinking about like you know who is Emily, what are potential different paths that I could go down in my career and maybe what are some things that you know other people can give me feedback on that I don't necessarily see about myself. Peretz: Definitely, I think it's what I've learned from my conversations and overall it's not a linear path and you need to get inspiration from different areas and the past game is BuzzFeed inspired and kind of all the quizzes that they had but it's kind of creating a mood board. What is your theme? What is your North Star? And the more you get clarity on what you actually want to have your career in your life, the better you're able to tactically set, okay, I want to target these companies. I need to do this interview preparation. I need to take this course. When you don't know what you want, you end up spending and spinning your wheels a lot. Emily Nelson de Velasco: I have one last question for you have you ⁓ ever seen anybody face plant with AI in their interview or in the hiring process? ⁓ Peretz: Just watching social media clips and there's tricks people do, but I'll let people watch those videos themselves. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Right, awesome. Yeah, to everybody out there, the hacks aren't necessarily hacks, friends. Use them with caution. Peretz: And I think ultimately at the end of the day, like AI can help you get information. But when it comes to connecting with someone, short of like using a tool like clay to do competitive research, it really comes down to like, can, you can AI your way to like feigning competence. But in terms of like dynamics, maybe there are some great AI tools that can help you, but like knowing how to interact, how to kind of match the rhythm of conversation. Those are the soft skills that. you can't really fake it. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Right, absolutely. Practice makes better, In all aspects. Okay, that being said, we are coming to the end of our time, and have a favorite question that I like to ask everyone ⁓ at the end of our chat, and that is, Peretz Cohen, do you have a hot take? Peretz: Yeah, my heart take is... I think the idea of... completely investing in one career title. or seeing yourself in a certain lens was never really useful. But with AI, that process has been accelerated. And what I mean by that is, even if you're, let's say, you're a designer, you're an engineer, or you're a researcher, learn about other domains. That helps you get promoted because you understand what other teams are working towards. Like you can kind of maybe take a step back and not do everything in a way that like, accelerates your local teams goals, but you know, helps out the engineering team a little bit. You start to understand other teams and other domains. And it also kind of gives you prepares you if you need to switch domains, if you switch lanes, you're prepared and you're not coming to it completely cold. And when I meet in addition to that, think it's also don't rely on overly rely on other teams to pick up your slack as it were like. understand that even in big corporate environments, if you're someone who's perceived, who's completely accountable for their work, even not just the core work, but how that impacts other teams, you get a lot further in the short term and in the Emily Nelson de Velasco: Okay, Well, those are words to live by. Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it I hope that everybody who's listening to this really takes that to heart. Peretz: And I find them comforting as well, because you can have fear, AI is disrupting everything, or no AI is unlocking opportunity, and I can kind of proceed beyond the bounds of this kind of swim lane. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Absolutely. Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much sharing that with us and for taking your time to be here with us overall today. ⁓ you enjoyed listening to Peretz and you're wanting to ⁓ some more of Peretz on a daily, weekly ⁓ he has a podcast and other ways that you can connect with him. So Peretz, would you mind ⁓ just with us ⁓ how can find you? Peretz: The best way to find me, if you want the table of contents of all my online links, is go to beacons.ai slash Peretz my first name, and the word links, like web links, and you'll have all my, podcasts, the web applications, everything is there. Emily Nelson de Velasco: Awesome. All right, and we'll definitely be linking that down in the comments below as well. So once again, thank you so much for being here with us today. I really, really appreciate it. And I wish you all the best in your current and future endeavors. Peretz: Thank you so much and thank you for convincing me to come on. Emily Nelson de Velasco: You're welcome. Hopefully we can do it again sometime. Alright, thanks everybody. Bye! Peretz: Sounds great.