Full Transcript for The Intersection of Celebrities and Professional Wrestling

00:05:14,847 --> 00:05:20,787 It was less high impact, yeah. Yeah, but they believed it at the time, 65 00:05:20,827 --> 00:05:27,227 you know, that it's a Tennessee audience's condition that whenever, 66 00:05:27,587 --> 00:05:29,487 whomever do the pilot driver, 67 00:05:30,287 --> 00:05:35,207 it's automatic DQ and also automatic, that, what do you call it? 68 00:05:37,281 --> 00:05:41,701 Carried away to your ambulance. You know, stretch it. 69 00:05:42,481 --> 00:05:46,041 You stretch it out. Yeah, that was the pile driver. 70 00:05:46,521 --> 00:05:51,681 And in other parts of the country, you know, pile driver wasn't even finished sometimes. 71 00:05:52,141 --> 00:05:58,221 But when you talk about Undertaker's tombstone, nobody gets out. 72 00:05:58,381 --> 00:06:06,021 So the myth is, you know, very well kept. But actually for this Jerry Lawler, 73 00:06:06,061 --> 00:06:10,461 Andy Kaufman thing, most people actually believed Jerry Lawler hurt the guy. 74 00:06:11,121 --> 00:06:15,481 Right. And Andy Kaufman would walk around and go on television wearing a neck 75 00:06:15,481 --> 00:06:17,501 brace. Yeah. Nine months later. 76 00:06:18,701 --> 00:06:24,721 Yeah. Because it was not right after the thing that when Jerry Lawler and Andy 77 00:06:24,721 --> 00:06:27,161 Kaufman came to David Letterman show, right? 78 00:06:27,241 --> 00:06:30,041 It was like eight, nine months after that incident. it 79 00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:33,741 but they still carried the storyline and 80 00:06:33,741 --> 00:06:37,301 it was like people still bought it right well 81 00:06:37,301 --> 00:06:40,481 that was uh decades before the internet of course 82 00:06:40,481 --> 00:06:44,341 now that uh you know 83 00:06:44,341 --> 00:06:49,441 with internet and and the youtube things that they'll be played over and over 84 00:06:49,441 --> 00:06:54,941 and over and of course that uh you know the number of times that they played 85 00:06:54,941 --> 00:06:59,441 on youtube the number goes up but the more they show it it's like a the less 86 00:06:59,441 --> 00:07:01,381 believable it gets, right? Right. 87 00:07:01,761 --> 00:07:09,001 Because news and news value and this talk of the town thing, 88 00:07:09,121 --> 00:07:12,921 it expires real quick in today's society. 89 00:07:14,081 --> 00:07:20,821 But in 1980s, Jerry Lawler, Andy Kaufman thing was talked about for a long time. 90 00:07:21,161 --> 00:07:26,981 And most people actually believed it, that Jerry Lawler hurt the guy. Mm-hmm. 91 00:07:27,622 --> 00:07:34,582 So it's a perception thing, and it really has changed over the years. 92 00:07:34,662 --> 00:07:36,602 It cannot be done today, of course. 93 00:07:36,802 --> 00:07:42,622 But what I'm trying to get to is that the perception by wrestling fans has drastically 94 00:07:42,622 --> 00:07:46,522 changed not just over the years, but over the decades. 95 00:07:46,682 --> 00:07:53,502 I'm talking about Bad Bunny and Logan Paul and Fua-chan in Japan now. 96 00:07:54,322 --> 00:07:57,282 Nobody really hates what they're doing. You know what I'm saying? 97 00:07:57,622 --> 00:08:02,002 It's pretty widely accepted, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I think so. 98 00:08:02,282 --> 00:08:07,242 Of course, it's not a one-shot deal that Bud Bunny, as big as he is, 99 00:08:07,382 --> 00:08:09,422 he's almost like a semi-regular. 100 00:08:09,662 --> 00:08:13,082 He's not a regular, but he doesn't just come into one match. 101 00:08:13,202 --> 00:08:18,242 He comes to Monday Night Raw and SmackDown to run Angle. He was in Royal Rumble. 102 00:08:18,542 --> 00:08:21,602 And he actually, you could tell he's a wrestling fan. 103 00:08:22,222 --> 00:08:28,002 And, you know, his YouTube thing that during his, you know, that international 104 00:08:28,002 --> 00:08:30,142 and the world tour, that American, 105 00:08:30,362 --> 00:08:36,502 you know, tours, that he carries this replica WWE championship belt on his shoulder 106 00:08:36,502 --> 00:08:40,522 while he's traveling, you know? Did you know that? 107 00:08:40,762 --> 00:08:45,882 I didn't know that, but I know how enthusiastic and passionate he is about his, 108 00:08:46,502 --> 00:08:49,662 like you said, I guess he is a semi-regular. When you said that, 109 00:08:49,702 --> 00:08:55,122 you know, I thought he's similar to somebody like Brock Lesnar used in the same way. 110 00:08:55,142 --> 00:08:59,162 Not the same kind of person, a wrestler, but somebody like Brock Lesnar where 111 00:08:59,162 --> 00:09:02,902 they're not on every single week's episode. Well, you should be. 112 00:09:03,002 --> 00:09:07,302 It's a totally different market. Special attraction. Yeah. The marketing differently. 113 00:09:08,182 --> 00:09:12,262 Because if Brock Lesnar shows up every week, he really kills it. 114 00:09:12,322 --> 00:09:17,822 You know, every time he comes out, it's special. And also with this storyline 115 00:09:17,822 --> 00:09:21,922 draft, he's the free agent, right? It works. 116 00:09:22,142 --> 00:09:30,882 But with this Bud Bunny thing, it's just the people really accept his participation 117 00:09:30,882 --> 00:09:33,082 in the way things are all handled. 118 00:09:33,302 --> 00:09:38,522 And did you see the way he looked when Savio Vega came into your dressing room? 119 00:09:38,682 --> 00:09:40,082 I mean, he's genuinely excited. 120 00:09:41,282 --> 00:09:48,202 Yeah. it's very different from many of the past instances where somebody was 121 00:09:48,202 --> 00:09:52,722 coming in where it was kind of like the wrestling company wanted somebody to 122 00:09:52,722 --> 00:09:57,742 come in and the wrestle person wrestling may or may not have been reluctant. 123 00:09:57,762 --> 00:10:01,322 They're not as passionate as bad bunny or even Logan Paul, I suppose. 124 00:10:01,902 --> 00:10:03,422 So it's different these days. 125 00:10:05,022 --> 00:10:10,162 But only, not only it's been 20 years now, I guess it's a long time now, 126 00:10:10,242 -->

00:10:17,482 but Pete, you know, how people actually hated david arcade thing oh my gosh that was disaster. 127 00:10:18,944 --> 00:10:23,164 Yeah, and then that's one of the elements that killed WCW ultimately, right? 128 00:10:23,464 --> 00:10:26,624 I mean, it was so widely publicized in the States. 129 00:10:26,684 --> 00:10:33,524 I remember it was such a big deal that USA Today published it. 130 00:10:33,564 --> 00:10:35,124 I don't know if it was on the front page. 131 00:10:35,304 --> 00:10:43,104 One thing that WCW would do and WWE wouldn't is that they actually gave him 132 00:10:43,104 --> 00:10:48,404 World Heavyweight title, you know, the flare belt, the gold. 133 00:10:48,944 --> 00:10:50,944 That was pretty unprecedented. 134 00:10:51,544 --> 00:10:56,344 Very Vince Russo-like, right? Career-defining. 135 00:10:57,604 --> 00:11:04,424 Yeah. But what's interesting is that today, David Arquette is a professional wrestler. 136 00:11:04,604 --> 00:11:12,364 He works in independent shows. He did return to pro wrestling and made a movie 137 00:11:12,364 --> 00:11:15,584 documenting his return to wrestling. 138 00:11:15,804 --> 00:11:21,204 And he even had death matches and really dedicated a lot of his life and time 139 00:11:21,204 --> 00:11:23,624 to pro wrestling in the past couple of years. 140 00:11:24,044 --> 00:11:30,284 And also, maybe he's asking for forgiveness a little bit. 141 00:11:30,584 --> 00:11:34,664 Sure. It wasn't like that. Now that he's part of it, like, hey, 142 00:11:34,704 --> 00:11:37,804 I'm one of the boys kind of feeling he's generating. 143 00:11:38,344 --> 00:11:41,244 And, well, he's like 15, 20 years older now. 144 00:11:41,744 --> 00:11:48,104 And he's not in all kinds of movies, but he kind of reminds me of Mickey Rourke's 145 00:11:48,104 --> 00:11:52,724 movie, The Wrestler, that that guy came back to the wrestling community, 146 00:11:53,064 --> 00:11:56,024 sort of. And now he's accepted. 147 00:11:56,944 --> 00:12:00,704 And like you mentioned, Mickey Rourke, he's another one who would end up coming 148 00:12:00,704 --> 00:12:05,144 to wrestling as somebody that played a wrestler in the movie. 149 00:12:05,264 --> 00:12:08,064 He was a participating WrestleMania thing with Chris Chagos. He didn't. 150 00:12:09,144 --> 00:12:13,304 Well, he's a little older. You know, if he was 10 years, 20 years younger, 151 00:12:13,444 --> 00:12:15,784 he would have done the actual match, probably. 152 00:12:16,324 --> 00:12:24,044 Yeah. And so the perception has changed because the way people are talking about Mr. 153 00:12:24,284 --> 00:12:28,084 T, you know, Mr. Tiera thing, Pete Rhodes thing. 154 00:12:28,624 --> 00:12:34,944 Yeah. Or even this, you know, NFL player, you know, working in Battle Royale things. 155 00:12:36,504 --> 00:12:42,664 All the wrestling fans really hate the fact that the way WWE, 156 00:12:42,804 --> 00:12:45,304 WWF at the time changed wrestling. 157 00:12:45,744 --> 00:12:52,964 And,

of course, it was for the bigger audience and more for general public, 158 00:12:53,044 --> 00:12:58,104 of course. you know, the famous NFL player, you know, working at Battle Royal 159 00:12:58,104 --> 00:12:59,644 for WrestleMania, right? 160 00:12:59,784 --> 00:13:06,284 And the big news and other, you know, media outlet or the news or the even regular 161 00:13:06,284 --> 00:13:08,684 news, sports news covered WrestleMania 162 00:13:08,684 --> 00:13:13,404 where they don't normally cover wrestling. So it was a success. 163 00:13:13,664 --> 00:13:18,184 But it was, the feeling was like, like. 164 00:13:18,954 --> 00:13:26,134 Like, this is in both ways, that traditional wrestling fans still hated the 165 00:13:26,134 --> 00:13:28,214 way they were, you know, handling the thing. 166 00:13:28,674 --> 00:13:34,934 But today's wrestling, it's just really, really, it has changed over the years. 167 00:13:35,394 --> 00:13:44,474 And in Japan, right now, nobody thinks that this Hua Chen's participation on 168 00:13:44,474 --> 00:13:48,754 the stardom card is a disgrace to wrestling or anything like that. 169 00:13:48,954 --> 00:13:54,754 No, I actually saw articles. There was something on numbers that said that she 170 00:13:54,754 --> 00:14:00,674 talked about how she could land properly and fly properly and had good technique. 171 00:14:00,774 --> 00:14:07,334 And it seems like she's accepted by not just. And also, those stories were written 172 00:14:07,334 --> 00:14:13,814 by journalists very differently from, say, 15, 20 years ago. Oh, yeah. Definitely. 173 00:14:14,394 --> 00:14:18,134 The sports journalists, I mean, non-wrestling, no. 174 00:14:18,234 --> 00:14:22,914 The sports journalists, journalism and journalists think they know wrestling, 175 00:14:23,014 --> 00:14:23,934 too. You know what I'm saying? 176 00:14:24,814 --> 00:14:30,034 That's how, yeah. I always remember, because you would see these articles where 177 00:14:30,034 --> 00:14:33,494 they would use a wrestling term in the headline. 178 00:14:33,494 --> 00:14:37,394 Line like vince mcmahon body slams 179 00:14:37,394 --> 00:14:41,354 the financial industry or you know 180 00:14:41,354 --> 00:14:44,534 what i mean very hacky hacky stuff 181 00:14:44,534 --> 00:14:47,354 that's hokey for us though you know because 182 00:14:47,354 --> 00:14:50,334 it's so cliche it still happens even 183 00:14:50,334 --> 00:14:53,994 to this day you can tell if somebody watches wrestling 184 00:14:53,994 --> 00:14:57,034 or not by reading the headline well it's 185 00:14:57,034 --> 00:15:00,794 not watching wrestling use that term yes yes 186 00:15:00,794 --> 00:15:03,754 see it's more like this is always 187 00:15:03,754 --> 00:15:06,854 we still have this stigma you know 188 00:15:06,854 --> 00:15:12,114 i'm saying wrestling has that kind of stigma a little bit but with bad bunny 189 00:15:12,114 --> 00:15:17,454 and with all these guys i think the new people like bad bunny fuachan logan 190 00:15:17,454 --> 00:15:23,454 paul yeah it's becoming more acceptable oh definitely yeah that's what we are 191 00:15:23,454 --> 00:15:26,474 trying to get to today It has changed completely, 192 00:15:27,214 --> 00:15:29,214 Yeah I'm interested. 193 00:15:30,134 --> 00:15:32,894 Go ahead Well I wanted 194 00:15:32,894 --> 00:15:35,614 to ask because you talked about the early Wrestlemania You talked about the 195 00:15:35,614 --> 00:15:39,314 recent Wrestlemania But I know you were at Wrestlemania 11 When the main event 196 00:15:39,314 --> 00:15:46,654 was Lawrence Taylor vs Bam Bam Bigelow Yeah I was there And it was kind of In 197 00:15:46,654 --> 00:15:51,434 the middle of that time where it was It definitely wasn't as big Of a deal as 198 00:15:51,434 --> 00:15:53,334 it was at Wrestlemania 1 But, 199 00:15:53,874 --> 00:15:56,814 but it wasn't as big as so it wasn't the only 200 00:15:56,814 --> 00:16:03,974 time wwe wrestlemania wasn't like a big huge arena or stadium it was in in connecticut 201 00:16:03,974 --> 00:16:09,914 you know an actual main event was diesel kevin nash against sean michaels these 202 00:16:09,914 --> 00:16:14,894 are as a champion but for general public the main event was lt against 203 00:16:15,054 --> 00:16:17,094 Ben Ben Bigelow. Yeah. 204 00:16:18,294 --> 00:16:22,974 And that was almost WWE down period too, though. 205 00:16:23,194 --> 00:16:30,014 That's right. That was NWO, WCW, Monday Night Raw, almost winning around that time period. 206 00:16:30,674 --> 00:16:34,454 Right before Mike Tyson and the Attitude Era. 207 00:16:35,054 --> 00:16:39,254 Stone Cold Steel Box and Skyrocketed kind of thing. Yeah. 208 00:16:40,294 --> 00:16:48,094 So, yeah. LT was also so like a very interesting part of WrestleMania history 209 00:16:48,094 --> 00:16:54,314 that they still, well, basically Vince McMahon felt that they needed something like that. Right. 210 00:16:55,414 --> 00:17:01,254 Yeah. Lawrence Taylor. Yeah. Not just NFL super in the former NFL superstar, 211 00:17:01,394 --> 00:17:03,274 but he was like movie star too. 212 00:17:03,634 --> 00:17:05,614 And the New York giants legend. 213 00:17:06,474 --> 00:17:12,194 Legend. And also he, a little bit later on came out that he had his, 214 00:17:12,254 --> 00:17:21,994 you know, drug issues right that's right yes yeah very famous um the most tragic you know like a, 215 00:17:23,034 --> 00:17:29,374 american sport hero kind of thing anti-hero almost yeah and it was interesting 216 00:17:29,374 --> 00:17:34,394 that it was definitely one shot deal that lt lawrence there did not come back 217 00:17:34,394 --> 00:17:39,834 to have another match see how many times did mike tyson you know come back yeah 218 00:17:39,834 --> 00:17:43,014 he he came back and did a few more things. 219 00:17:43,574 --> 00:17:48,654 But the Lawrence Taylor was a really one-shot deal. And also it was one-shot deal. 220 00:17:48,954 --> 00:17:54,714 Therefore, you needed somebody like

Bam Bam Bigelow to actually carry a wrestling match. 221 00:17:55,756 --> 00:18:00,936 That had to be him. That was one of those matches where it was something where 222 00:18:00,936 --> 00:18:03,976 you didn't know what to expect, but it came off in the end. 223 00:18:04,036 --> 00:18:10,936 Like LT looked really good with Bam Bam in that match, considering that was his one and only match. 224 00:18:11,156 --> 00:18:17,256 And I think it wasn't a big crit or rather it wasn't a big financial success, 225 00:18:17,376 --> 00:18:21,296 but I think it wasn't a disaster among wrestling fans either. 226 00:18:21,996 --> 00:18:27,456 No, it looks pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think people were so surprised by that. 227 00:18:28,396 --> 00:18:34,016 And that made Ben Ben Bigelow pretty famous to the general public, 228 00:18:34,196 --> 00:18:35,796 name-wise. Definitely. 229 00:18:36,296 --> 00:18:40,156 Yeah, because that made him a bigger star in America. 230 00:18:40,556 --> 00:18:45,436 But what was interesting about this Ben Ben Bigelow was that he did this in Japan, too. 231 00:18:45,496 --> 00:18:51,276 If you remember, former Grand Champions, Yokozuna, sumo wrestler Koji Kitao, 232 00:18:51,276 --> 00:18:56,736 His debut match was against Bam Bam Bigelow at Tokyo Dome. It had to be Bam 233 00:18:56,736 --> 00:18:57,856 Bam Bigelow to carry the thing. 234 00:18:59,576 --> 00:19:03,056 Interesting, huh? Says a lot about Bam Bam Bigelow's talent. 235 00:19:04,076 --> 00:19:11,116 And also, he also carried Salman Hashimikov, that former Soviet Olympic wrestler 236 00:19:11,116 --> 00:19:14,856 who turned professional in Japan after this perestroika. 237 00:19:15,076 --> 00:19:20,816 No more Soviet is coming to Russia, and they're becoming professional athletes 238 00:19:20,816 --> 00:19:23,696 instead of communist country athletes. You know what I'm saying? 239 00:19:24,296 --> 00:19:29,276 I mean, they did not speak a word of English or Japanese. 240 00:19:29,516 --> 00:19:33,496 It was all Russian. But there was a person who can translate, 241 00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:39,416 you know, that the American wrestler Ben Ben Bigelow against Salman Hashimikov, 242 00:19:39,616 --> 00:19:42,336 that it had to be Ben Ben Bigelow to carry that thing. 243 00:19:42,476 --> 00:19:51,156 I mean, to make it a watchable wrestling match. And so Ben-Ben had his very special role. 244 00:19:52,533 --> 00:19:56,453 A non-professional wrestler working in a big-time match. 245 00:19:57,133 --> 00:20:00,573 And so Bam Bam did that with Kitao, Bam Bam did that with Hashimikaf, 246 00:20:00,713 --> 00:20:02,893 and Bam Bam did that with Lawrence Taylor. 247 00:20:03,193 --> 00:20:11,293 So he needed special talent to carry this whole scenario, I guess. 248 00:20:11,533 --> 00:20:19,773 And it was still almost like a transitional. Because for Mike Tyson's participation, 249 00:20:20,873 --> 00:20:22,893 he was a special guest referee. 250 00:20:24,013 --> 00:20:31,273 Who

would you expect? He would be punching somebody out at the end of the night, of course, Mike Tyson. 251 00:20:31,533 --> 00:20:37,833 But Vince McMahon didn't even let Mike Tyson work the wrestling match. 252 00:20:37,993 --> 00:20:38,433 You know what I'm saying? 253 00:20:39,413 --> 00:20:47,053 It was probably too dangerous you know to go you know to let him do that single match situation, 254 00:20:48,013 --> 00:20:55,013 couldn't happen you know and he wasn't even the main referee he was a sub-referee you know, 255 00:20:56,053 --> 00:20:59,573 it was kind of just like Wrestlemania 1 256 00:20:59,573 --> 00:21:02,393 that Muhammad Ali said was going to be referee 257 00:21:02,393 --> 00:21:05,873 but no he was standing outside the ring as second 258 00:21:05,873 --> 00:21:08,993 referee and actual referee free in the ring was Pat Patterson 259 00:21:08,993 --> 00:21:11,913 remember yeah and so 260 00:21:11,913 --> 00:21:16,253 that was still like very like right 261 00:21:16,253 --> 00:21:19,293 in between period you know Lawrence Taylor the 262 00:21:19,293 --> 00:21:24,613 Mike Tyson the Pete Rose Pete Rose didn't have actual match he was involved 263 00:21:24,613 --> 00:21:31,793 you know but he of course get you know tombstone power driven by Kane you know 264 00:21:31,793 --> 00:21:37,613 and then Kane and Pete Rose story lasted what three years or so you know, 265 00:21:38,353 --> 00:21:40,073 wasn't actual wrestling match. 266 00:21:41,118 --> 00:21:48,918 For Bud Bunny and Logan Paul and Fu Hua-chan, they did actual wrestling matches. 267 00:21:49,298 --> 00:21:52,478 Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's different. Yeah. 268 00:21:52,538 --> 00:21:56,638 And also they look like, well, it doesn't, I mean, not just looking like, 269 00:21:56,698 --> 00:21:58,658 but they are working regular. 270 00:21:58,918 --> 00:22:01,538 Well, for Logan Paul's case, he's 271 00:22:01,538 --> 00:22:08,218 under contract with WWE and he will be semi-regularly working in the ring. 272 00:22:08,358 --> 00:22:13,118 Yeah. as much as Bud Bunny's schedule allows he might do it again too right 273 00:22:13,118 --> 00:22:22,058 of course and I think Hua Chen is also today's star she's famous TV talent but 274 00:22:22,058 --> 00:22:27,378 what made her famous was her YouTube channel that's today's star, 275 00:22:28,318 --> 00:22:36,038 yeah Hua Chen is more famous as YouTuber in Japan than. 276 00:22:39,038 --> 00:22:41,998 Then she's on late-night TV or anything like that. 277 00:22:42,918 --> 00:22:46,038 You know, it's interesting the point you brought up earlier. 278 00:22:46,258 --> 00:22:49,858 We were talking about Bam Bam Bigelow and the way he worked with Hashim Mikov 279 00:22:49,858 --> 00:22:53,718 and Lawrence Taylor and Kitau. 280 00:22:53,978 --> 00:22:59,698 And the way he worked, he didn't necessarily speak the same language as some 281 00:22:59,698 --> 00:23:03,438 of those guys, but it wasn't like we were talking about a little bit earlier. 282 00:23:03,498 --> 00:23:06,598 I think before we started to record, we were talking about how nowadays 283 00:23:06,598 --> 00:23:09,858 watch on bad bunny logan paul that's the style 284 00:23:09,858 --> 00:23:12,978 of wrestling isn't as improvised as 285 00:23:12,978 --> 00:23:16,518 bam bam bigelow style it's very much oh yeah 286 00:23:16,518 --> 00:23:22,998 so i'm interested to hear what your impression is of how bam bam worked with 287 00:23:22,998 --> 00:23:28,858 these celebrities is like in terry funk's word is a type of wrestler who can 288 00:23:28,858 --> 00:23:33,718 work with broomstick right yeah and they were broomsticks, 289 00:23:34,358 --> 00:23:36,598 More or less, yeah. I mean, they were wrestlers. 290 00:23:37,770 --> 00:23:44,190 So that was BamBam. And actually, BamBam made $1 million of one night match. 291 00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:51,210 I mean, back in 1995, $1 million payoff from one match was very, 292 00:23:51,250 --> 00:23:52,150 very big, don't you think? 293 00:23:52,330 --> 00:23:56,810 And rare, especially in America at the time, because I think Japan was really 294 00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:58,750 the box office smashing around. 295 00:23:58,910 --> 00:24:03,170 That has changed too. You see how weak Japanese economy is right now and how 296 00:24:03,170 --> 00:24:06,530 weak yen over the US dollar. 297 00:24:07,450 --> 00:24:13,630 That's very different, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, Bam Bam was kind of happy about that. 298 00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:22,870 And also he took pride in doing this, that he was chosen by Vince McMahon, 299 00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:28,150 that he had to be Bam Bam Bale to carry this single match with Lawrence Taylor. 300 00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:31,950 It had to be success. 301 00:24:32,270 --> 00:24:37,330 It's a WrestleMania main event. It was on the front cover of Sports Illustrated 302 00:24:37,330 --> 00:24:39,830 and all these things, People magazine, TV magazine. 303 00:24:40,530 --> 00:24:43,990 It was Ben-Ben's kind of happy time then. 304 00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:52,590 But the outside talent, like the big celebrity type wrestler, 305 00:24:52,590 --> 00:24:58,610 or I should say celebrity who takes on wrestlers or whatever, 306 00:24:58,770 --> 00:25:01,270 that they come in and have actual wrestling match. 307 00:25:01,270 --> 00:25:05,210 It's very different now that Logan 308 00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:09,050 Paul the Bud Bunny fortune they 309 00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:14,070 actually come to dojo in practice you know I'm saying they're more serious about 310 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:19,690 it and Logan Paul both Logan Paul and Bud Bunny's case that Triple H even talks 311 00:25:19,690 --> 00:25:27,410 about it on TV that he comes to performance center in practice that he's like he 312 00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:29,590 wins kind of like, 313 00:25:30,270 --> 00:25:33,510 sort of like a feeling of camaraderie again, you know, with other. 314 00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:39,910 Wrestlers at the dojo that not,

these people are not just celebrities who come 315 00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:44,570 in and, you know, collect one big paycheck, but they come in and actually practice 316 00:25:44,570 --> 00:25:48,230 with them like a Japanese dojo style, 317 00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:54,610 you know, situation or performance center kind of, you know, environment. And, 318 00:25:55,486 --> 00:26:00,526 Yeah, it's really, really different now that many people are accepting it. 319 00:26:00,926 --> 00:26:06,686 And it's an American market, though. But finally, somebody like Fu Hua-chan 320 00:26:06,686 --> 00:26:09,506 is accepted in Japan, too. 321 00:26:09,606 --> 00:26:14,846 Because the reason I'm talking about is that there was a company called Hustle, if you remember. 322 00:26:15,226 --> 00:26:24,446 Oh, yes. In Japan. It only lasted from 2004 to 2009, so it's like a five-year period. 323 00:26:24,446 --> 00:26:28,446 Period and for me though you know i always talk 324 00:26:28,446 --> 00:26:31,806 about this like i'm no secret 325 00:26:31,806 --> 00:26:35,966 i'm not a big fan of hustle right that's right 326 00:26:35,966 --> 00:26:41,626 it's uh it's it's the it's an enemy of this show in particular and we think 327 00:26:41,626 --> 00:26:47,326 so but it's been done said and done and it was something that really was a the 328 00:26:47,326 --> 00:26:52,606 epitome of Japanese dark age of Japanese wrestling, 2004. 329 00:26:53,686 --> 00:26:59,446 And actually, this hustle and pride were one and the same company. 330 00:26:59,626 --> 00:27:03,666 You know what I'm saying? Big, huge MMA company in Japan. 331 00:27:03,846 --> 00:27:07,846 And they had enough budget. They wanted to run pro wrestling shows. 332 00:27:08,186 --> 00:27:14,466 And the very first hustle, to be exact, it was January 4, 2004. 333 00:27:14,926 --> 00:27:19,126 What does January 4 mean? in japan it's 334 00:27:19,126 --> 00:27:23,166 the big tokyo dome day for new 335 00:27:23,166 --> 00:27:26,746 japan yeah they meant to 336 00:27:26,746 --> 00:27:30,546 have their first show on january 4th head-to-head 337 00:27:30,546 --> 00:27:33,786 against new japan's tokyo dome show do you 338 00:27:33,786 --> 00:27:36,946 remember that and very first hustle 339 00:27:36,946 --> 00:27:40,726 show was january 4th 2004 at 340 00:27:40,726 --> 00:27:43,746 the saitama super arena it's a home of pride in 341 00:27:43,746 --> 00:27:46,606 k1 you know it's not in tokyo but 342 00:27:46,606 --> 00:27:50,186 the right outside tokyo in saitama it's a huge with 343 00:27:50,186 --> 00:27:53,086 the setup you can hold it's indoor but you 344 00:27:53,086 --> 00:27:57,586 can hold like 28 000 people you know i'm saying there's actually like two venues 345 00:27:57,586 --> 00:28:03,046 inside of one building yeah the whole complex of it yeah yeah yeah it's like 346 00:28:03,046 --> 00:28:11,386 a complex of arenas but now they have a lot of that in states too but the very first main event was 347 00:28:11,806 -->

00:28:15,246 Naoya Ogawa against Bill Goldberg. That's right. 348 00:28:16,186 --> 00:28:22,306 Wow. So they had this big show aura, but what they're trying to do was like. 349 00:28:23,546 --> 00:28:28,146 They started calling themselves, if you remember, resting opera, right? 350 00:28:29,346 --> 00:28:32,166 It was, I guess it was something like that. 351 00:28:32,266 --> 00:28:38,486 I mean, hustle is, it's hard to, there's nothing very similar to it. 352 00:28:39,274 --> 00:28:46,994 And also only existed five year period, you know. And it was very, it was that time. 353 00:28:47,114 --> 00:28:51,894 It could only have existed in that time period. It was very of that time period too. 354 00:28:51,934 --> 00:28:55,974 It's a good reflection. And also that they could only do that while wrestling 355 00:28:55,974 --> 00:28:58,594 was in such a down period in Japan. 356 00:28:58,914 --> 00:29:05,214 The reason was that, you know, people like, you know, Yuji Nagata, 357 00:29:05,214 --> 00:29:12,754 the Munabunaka Nishi, the Kendo Kashi, the former college wrestling champions, 358 00:29:13,154 --> 00:29:16,634 the New Japan sent them to Pride and K-1. 359 00:29:16,854 --> 00:29:22,394 The MMA situation was what? One week practice and had a match against people 360 00:29:22,394 --> 00:29:26,694 like Federer or Mirko Krakow. Of course you get knocked out, right? 361 00:29:27,774 --> 00:29:32,594 But it was like no makeover. I mean, if it was a wrestling match, 362 00:29:32,594 --> 00:29:35,994 you lose. and probably like another second match, third match, 363 00:29:36,014 --> 00:29:40,794 you have a program, you get the win back. But in MMA, you didn't. 364 00:29:42,354 --> 00:29:49,414 Even worse yet, at the time, Antonio Inoki, of all people, basically sided with 365 00:29:49,414 --> 00:29:51,274 MMA instead of wrestling. 366 00:29:51,754 --> 00:29:56,954 That's right. He kind of turned his back on traditional pro wrestling style 367 00:29:56,954 --> 00:30:00,774 in favor of more what they call shoe fighting. 368 00:30:00,774 --> 00:30:05,094 At the same time that this MMA company split into three ways, 369 00:30:05,294 --> 00:30:08,694 you know, initially K-1 and Pride were working together, 370 00:30:08,854 --> 00:30:13,274 but they got so popular that K-1 ran their own show, Pride ran their own show, 371 00:30:13,354 --> 00:30:18,334 and they created a third show with, you know, another network channel, 372 00:30:18,594 --> 00:30:20,314 Inoki Bombaye Show, if you remember. 373 00:30:21,734 --> 00:30:27,514 Yeah, IGF. Oh, no. Before IGF, it was Inoki Bombaye Show, Channel 4. 374 00:30:27,674 --> 00:30:32,274 For about a five-year period, New Year's Eve, December 31st, 375 00:30:32,294 --> 00:30:38,014 Channel 4, Channel 6, Channel 8, Nippon TV and TBS and Fuji Television, 376 00:30:38,474 --> 00:30:41,674 they all had very similar-looking MMA show all night long. 377 00:30:41,894 --> 00:30:45,794 Remember? Those were very, very popular. Very, very popular. 378 00:30:46,274 --> 00:30:52,154 And also, the TV audience in Japan were conditioned to just leave the TV on 379 00:30:52,154 --> 00:30:55,014 on New Year's Eve. Right. Whatever you're watching. 380 00:30:55,174 --> 00:31:00,154 There's about five choices, too. You could watch the kickboxing or the singing 381 00:31:00,154 --> 00:31:03,394 show, the music show, or the Ekiden race. 382 00:31:04,594 --> 00:31:08,914 That's January 1st, yeah. But you just leave the TV on all night long. 383 00:31:09,074 --> 00:31:13,734 You're not even watching. But it was on in big budget shows, right? 384 00:31:14,572 --> 00:31:21,732 And Hustle was created as a almost kind of like a spin off of Pride, 385 00:31:22,012 --> 00:31:24,852 like a pro wrestling division of Pride. 386 00:31:25,052 --> 00:31:31,252 So they had budget. And first couple of years, Hustle brought in people like, like I said, Goldberg. 387 00:31:31,572 --> 00:31:35,952 They brought in people like Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Mick Foley, 388 00:31:36,252 --> 00:31:42,612 just like a free agent from WWE at the time, but they're a huge name. 389 00:31:42,752 --> 00:31:47,232 So they brought them in. And if you remember, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall against 390 00:31:47,232 --> 00:31:51,332 Naoya Ogawa and Shinya Hashimoto. I mean, it just sounds crazy, right? 391 00:31:52,272 --> 00:31:59,972 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, hindsight, Ogawa and Hashimoto as a tag team and going up 392 00:31:59,972 --> 00:32:03,332 against Nash and Hall actually took place. It did. 393 00:32:05,112 --> 00:32:08,812 And you're not supposed to remember much about it because there was not much 394 00:32:08,812 --> 00:32:16,972 of a match. It's just sort of they brought in big, huge, million-dollar superstar 395 00:32:16,972 --> 00:32:19,792 from America and just had that. 396 00:32:20,072 --> 00:32:24,212 And also, Mick Foley was so traditional that, see, if you remember, 397 00:32:24,372 --> 00:32:27,672 Toshiaki Kawada was working hustle as Dangerous K, right? 398 00:32:28,332 --> 00:32:36,192 At the time, with All Japan, Kawada had Triple Crown title as his regular Kawada identity. and Mr. 399 00:32:36,992 --> 00:32:41,472 McFoley wanted to challenge Triple Crown title match because he's never done 400 00:32:41,472 --> 00:32:43,932 it. And if it was possible, they'd have a title match. 401 00:32:44,072 --> 00:32:46,852 And they had a title match too. 402 00:32:47,572 --> 00:32:51,492 Triple Crown title match on Hustle Ring. All those things happened. 403 00:32:52,532 --> 00:32:59,492 But it was more of celebrities that worked in Hustle Ring around that time period. 404 00:32:59,592 --> 00:33:04,112 And also another element that needed to be brought up was that your. 405 00:33:05,412 --> 00:33:13,592 Shoot style professional wrestling UWF hero Nobuhiko Takada was with Hustle 406 00:33:13,592 --> 00:33:17,052 as your dictator costume. 407 00:33:17,412 --> 00:33:23,072 He had this Hitler costume, right? I don't want to see

it. Generalissimo. 408 00:33:24,312 --> 00:33:30,412 Yeah. They called him the Generalissimo. And he had the Takada army. 409 00:33:31,452 --> 00:33:36,332 Yeah. and all kinds of comical characters. Very over-the-top, 410 00:33:36,332 --> 00:33:44,152 very campy, almost like a TV show, like the monster TV shows. 411 00:33:44,452 --> 00:33:48,112 Yeah, there was laser and smoke and... 412 00:33:49,123 --> 00:33:53,823 Takada wasn't going to, you know, have your regular wrestling match anymore. 413 00:33:53,963 --> 00:33:58,223 He basically retired from wrestling and retired from MMA. 414 00:33:58,563 --> 00:34:04,823 And what he was doing is hustle. So in his mind, it's something completely different 415 00:34:04,823 --> 00:34:06,243 that wouldn't destroy his legacy. 416 00:34:06,463 --> 00:34:08,563 Which kind of did, didn't it? 417 00:34:09,003 --> 00:34:12,823 Yeah, I mean, how is it viewed today by most Japanese fans? 418 00:34:13,023 --> 00:34:19,223 I saw him at one of the... I don't know if people remember also fondly, 419 00:34:19,323 --> 00:34:27,323 but it was, like I said, only existed between 2004 and 2009, the five-year period. 420 00:34:27,703 --> 00:34:32,183 The very last Hustle show they had was November of 2009. 421 00:34:32,923 --> 00:34:36,443 So it's like 14 years ago now. 422 00:34:36,863 --> 00:34:39,763 What if you're a teenager watching Hustle then? 423 00:34:39,883 --> 00:34:45,983 They're 30 now. you know five year period for you and I it was a while back 424 00:34:45,983 --> 00:34:50,863 and that was five you know something that lasted five years but I do know that 425 00:34:50,863 --> 00:34:57,223 there are a generation of wrestling fans who actually feel that they grew up watching Hustle. 426 00:34:58,223 --> 00:34:59,743 Does that make sense? 427 00:34:59,963 --> 00:35:02,903 I mean it makes sense but it also I'm interested 428 00:35:02,903 --> 00:35:05,683 to interview someone from that 429 00:35:05,683 --> 00:35:08,523 generation to see what kind of wrestling they 430 00:35:08,523 --> 00:35:11,783 prefer to watch these days DDT yeah 431 00:35:11,783 --> 00:35:14,763 and then also with you know 432 00:35:14,763 --> 00:35:18,883 the boom period of Pride K-1 433 00:35:18,883 --> 00:35:22,443 and Inoki Bomae show with 434 00:35:22,443 --> 00:35:25,163 Hustle to go with it a lot of the 435 00:35:25,163 --> 00:35:30,143 serious wrestling fans kind of left wrestling altogether and never came back 436 00:35:30,143 --> 00:35:35,623 that's right that's when it's like oh that's when I stopped watching wrestling 437 00:35:35,623 --> 00:35:39,323 I don't follow it anymore is that any good now it's that kind of thing yeah 438 00:35:39,323 --> 00:35:44,063 Or maybe some fans also switched to MMA. 439 00:35:44,483 --> 00:35:46,503 MMA fans never came back. 440 00:35:47,743 --> 00:35:53,363 But MMA today in Japan is not nearly as popular. 441 00:35:54,383 --> 00:36:00,303 No way. I mean, it's popular a bit, but not even close to how it was in the 442 00:36:00,303 --> 00:36:02,803 2000s. You're talking about like a rising show? 443 00:36:03,143 --> 00:36:08,743 Yeah, I mean, it's popular, but like, I mean, New Japan's popular. 444 00:36:08,743 --> 00:36:13,303 They don't have a superstar like Sakuraba was a superstar then. 445 00:36:13,443 --> 00:36:15,363 You know what I'm saying? Right, right. Yeah. 446 00:36:15,583 --> 00:36:21,143 Sakuraba alone, he carried the entire show, like beating Hoyce Gracie or somebody. 447 00:36:22,163 --> 00:36:29,723 They don't have Japanese MMA superstar as big as Sakuraba was then. 448 00:36:30,823 --> 00:36:34,563 And also not a heavyweight. The K-1 still exists today, though, 449 00:36:34,643 --> 00:36:37,363 but it's like your welterweight guys, right? 450 00:36:38,518 --> 00:36:42,658 There's Takeru, who just signed with that one fighting championship. 451 00:36:42,798 --> 00:36:45,538 He's the big – he's not MMA, though. He's a kickboxer. 452 00:36:45,938 --> 00:36:49,918 Kickboxer, yeah, yeah. But he is like your welterweight, right? 453 00:36:50,418 --> 00:36:56,138 Middleweight. He's tiny. He's tiny, yeah. Yeah, so I think it takes heavyweight 454 00:36:56,138 --> 00:36:58,618 superstars to carry that big of a show, you know what I'm saying? 455 00:36:58,738 --> 00:37:05,638 I might be prejudiced about it, but, you know, you have to be kind of big guys. I know what you mean. 456 00:37:06,758 --> 00:37:12,278 It's that's the tradition i'm i always want to be proved wrong but it seems that, 457 00:37:12,918 --> 00:37:16,458 the bigger heavyweights give it a bigger main 458 00:37:16,458 --> 00:37:19,658 event feel i that's hard to i don't have a definite opinion 459 00:37:19,658 --> 00:37:22,298 on that it's hard to say but i know what you mean i know what 460 00:37:22,298 --> 00:37:25,178 you mean yeah exceptional superstar like your 461 00:37:25,178 --> 00:37:28,058 freud mayweather it's a small guys but like 462 00:37:28,058 --> 00:37:31,338 it can carry the stadium show yeah but it's 463 00:37:31,338 --> 00:37:34,478 mayweather is your once in 464 00:37:34,478 --> 00:37:38,118 a lifetime kind of superstar but traditionally your main 465 00:37:38,118 --> 00:37:44,578 event is usually heavyweight guys in wrestling it's always been yeah and the 466 00:37:44,578 --> 00:37:50,498 superstar during that time period you know created big guy like bob zapp oh 467 00:37:50,498 --> 00:37:55,438 he he's uh would you consider him a wrestler or a non-wrestler? 468 00:37:56,498 --> 00:38:00,498 That's the epitome of the dark age of professional wrestling. 469 00:38:00,998 --> 00:38:07,118 He was not a wrestler or a wrestler I should say wrestler or fighter he would 470 00:38:07,118 --> 00:38:13,518 do any one night he can do wrestling and next night he might be in MMA fight. 471 00:38:14,118 --> 00:38:19,938 But he was actually discovered at the power plant of WCW. 472 00:38:19,938 --> 00:38:23,498 You know but he didn't 473 00:38:23,498 -->

00:38:26,318 even debut in America he was brought 474 00:38:26,318 --> 00:38:29,878 in as MMA fighter and 475 00:38:29,878 --> 00:38:36,198 the fact he was trained he was training at the power plant WCW power plant that 476 00:38:36,198 --> 00:38:42,058 part of the data was kind of erased then you know what I'm saying almost mysterious 477 00:38:42,058 --> 00:38:46,318 big guy former NFL player or something yeah. 478 00:38:47,404 --> 00:38:50,544 Yeah and also he didn't really 479 00:38:50,544 --> 00:38:53,524 train professional wrestling that he was 480 00:38:53,524 --> 00:38:56,564 in a lot of the wrestling match even with new japan pro wrestling but 481 00:38:56,564 --> 00:38:59,924 he didn't work like your pro wrestler no yeah 482 00:38:59,924 --> 00:39:02,664 but then again you weren't supposed 483 00:39:02,664 --> 00:39:05,564 to you know yeah that's right 484 00:39:05,564 --> 00:39:11,584 yeah so it was like a lot a lot of things it's kind of when you think about 485 00:39:11,584 --> 00:39:18,084 it now it's a total mess right you know and yeah so that was the hustle really 486 00:39:18,084 --> 00:39:23,304 symbolized what was happening around that time period. Yes. Yeah. 487 00:39:24,704 --> 00:39:28,524 It only lasted five years. And like you and I always talk about that, 488 00:39:28,544 --> 00:39:36,064 the wrestling fans had to wait until you have your Shinsuke Nakamura and Hiroshi 489 00:39:36,064 --> 00:39:39,224 Tanahashi and Katsuyori Shibata's era. That's right. 490 00:39:39,584 --> 00:39:44,344 Yeah. Yeah. Cause those guys were young lion then, you know, 491 00:39:44,344 --> 00:39:51,984 but now he's there a total veteran that is like Kazuchika Okada wasn't even there then. 492 00:39:53,409 --> 00:39:57,029 Yeah, he was a rookie still. Mm-hmm. Oh, probably around that time period, 493 00:39:57,089 --> 00:40:02,009 he was still with Toriumo in Mexico being trainee. 494 00:40:02,709 --> 00:40:09,349 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it was all different, because Hustle used a lot of celebrity. 495 00:40:09,629 --> 00:40:15,909 Like, you know, not Scott Hall, but Razor Ramon HG and Razor Ramon RG, if you remember. 496 00:40:16,129 --> 00:40:20,109 Mm-hmm. Immediates. But they were wrestling fans, so they worked like wrestling fans. 497 00:40:20,109 --> 00:40:22,869 But they were put in the ring with people 498 00:40:22,869 --> 00:40:27,089 like tenru oh my gosh right yeah yeah 499 00:40:27,089 --> 00:40:30,029 but you hear it on paper you don't you don't expect to 500 00:40:30,029 --> 00:40:33,029 see a serious fight yeah but 501 00:40:33,029 --> 00:40:36,009 the ten of all people tenru went with 502 00:40:36,009 --> 00:40:40,369 it too though at the time yeah or 503 00:40:40,369 --> 00:40:43,889 even great muta worked hustle shows too oh that's 504 00:40:43,889 --> 00:40:46,869 right yeah so they had 505 00:40:46,869 --> 00:40:50,109 cash to throw around first but 506 00:40:50,109 --> 00:40:53,689 after 2008 ish 507 00:40:53,689 --> 00:40:56,929

that the hustle entertainment and the 508 00:40:56,929 --> 00:41:00,489 prize company the parent company dream stage entertainment they 509 00:41:00,489 --> 00:41:03,849 kind of split budget and hustle all 510 00:41:03,849 --> 00:41:07,169 of a sudden didn't have any any of those budget after 2008 511 00:41:07,169 --> 00:41:11,329 then they went finally went down 2009 yeah 512 00:41:11,329 --> 00:41:14,169 so it was a lot to do with budget 513 00:41:14,169 --> 00:41:17,609 too i see yeah were they 514 00:41:17,609 --> 00:41:20,829 really really popular then or it was 515 00:41:20,829 --> 00:41:25,029 something that could if he wasn't hustle somebody else would be doing that something 516 00:41:25,029 --> 00:41:30,209 like that at the time i mean for the first time the japanese professional wrestling 517 00:41:30,209 --> 00:41:35,469 ring they actually had celebrity in the ring and had them have wrestling match 518 00:41:35,469 --> 00:41:38,449 in that i I mean, Japanese wrestling fans being very, 519 00:41:38,509 --> 00:41:41,569 very serious about the product, I mean, traditionally, don't you think? 520 00:41:42,289 --> 00:41:44,049 Sure, I think that's fair to say. 521 00:41:45,709 --> 00:41:48,229 And Hustle was the only company, actually... 522 00:41:49,601 --> 00:41:52,401 Like aim to have something like that 523 00:41:52,401 --> 00:41:55,761 and it was pretty popular for 524 00:41:55,761 --> 00:41:58,401 a while and it catered to a lot of the 525 00:41:58,401 --> 00:42:02,261 wrestling fans that was so disappointed in a lot of things that was happening 526 00:42:02,261 --> 00:42:09,421 in the wrestling environment at the time see your number one you know uwf kind 527 00:42:09,421 --> 00:42:15,661 of wrestler nobiko takada losing quick to hicks and gracie twice you know what 528 00:42:15,661 --> 00:42:18,341 i'm saying yeah Yeah, and it was like, 529 00:42:18,481 --> 00:42:21,041 wasn't he good, though? 530 00:42:21,161 --> 00:42:24,981 It's like, but in MMA, it's not that way. It's like, wow. 531 00:42:26,021 --> 00:42:30,581 And then, like I said, you know, of all people, Anthony Inoki basically sided 532 00:42:30,581 --> 00:42:37,401 with MMA people at the time and saying that in my days, it was one and the same. 533 00:42:38,341 --> 00:42:43,981 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, in my days, they didn't distinguish MMA 534 00:42:43,981 --> 00:42:48,401 and professional wrestling. They were basically one and the same in my days. 535 00:42:48,601 --> 00:42:53,461 And it was like, I guess that was the thing to defend. 536 00:42:54,221 --> 00:42:59,341 Of course, Inoki defended himself that way, but traditional older wrestling 537 00:42:59,341 --> 00:43:02,581 fans felt that right. In Inoki's days, it was real. 538 00:43:02,741 --> 00:43:05,441 But today's wrestling isn't something like that. 539 00:43:05,461 --> 00:43:09,901 You just have to justify what you're feeling and how you're feeling and what 540 00:43:09,901 --> 00:43:11,501 you're watching. You know what I'm saying? 541 00:43:11,861 --> 00:43:15,121 Especially back then, because people need to realize I realized that the word 542 00:43:15,121 --> 00:43:18,481 MMA, the term MMA wasn't as established. 543 00:43:18,681 --> 00:43:23,981 It was still gray area in the early 2000s. I mean, UFC was around, 544 00:43:24,161 --> 00:43:26,941 but it wasn't as powerful and influential as it is now. 545 00:43:27,021 --> 00:43:29,561 And Pride and K-1 were much more influential. 546 00:43:29,861 --> 00:43:35,901 And the Pride was using the name famous professional wrestler to be beat. 547 00:43:36,061 --> 00:43:41,621 Right. And it was being pretty much marketed and promoted almost like professional wrestling. Right. 548 00:43:42,219 --> 00:43:49,019 So I think a lot of fans interpreted that's my style of professional wrestling instead of MMA. 549 00:43:49,419 --> 00:43:52,599 You know what I mean? Yeah, but Takada didn't win. 550 00:43:53,439 --> 00:43:59,439 Well, that's where the separation begins in the mind. Yeah. In the mind. 551 00:44:00,099 --> 00:44:05,619 And also, yeah, it was like, oh, it was a horrible, horrible period in Japanese 552 00:44:05,619 --> 00:44:07,139 wrestling history, though, really. 553 00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:12,879 Sad. Yeah, sad. But that's not what we're talking about today. That's right. 554 00:44:13,079 --> 00:44:19,219 The Hustle was a company that really used non-wrestlers in wrestling ring. 555 00:44:19,419 --> 00:44:22,079 And that was the only time that happened in Japan. 556 00:44:22,779 --> 00:44:26,539 Yeah, it was almost like a regular feature of the shows. 557 00:44:27,339 --> 00:44:28,939 Oh, yeah. That's what they're doing. 558 00:44:29,799 --> 00:44:35,199 Either accepted or not accepted. Or people justify their feeling by saying, 559 00:44:35,279 --> 00:44:36,199 but that's not wrestling. 560 00:44:36,279 --> 00:44:38,979 It's fighting opera hustle. It's different. 561 00:44:40,479 --> 00:44:45,959 You just have to kind of justify what you're watching or something. 562 00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:51,379 You've been defending being a wrestling fan all your life, right? 563 00:44:52,959 --> 00:45:01,419 Yeah. Even in Japan, you know, there are wrestling haters. 564 00:45:01,999 --> 00:45:07,159 There are people who don't like pro wrestling. 565 00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:12,579 Why do they throw your opponent to the rope and they bounce off the rope and 566 00:45:12,579 --> 00:45:18,739 come right back at you and then it's like wrestling fans traditionally defending 567 00:45:18,739 --> 00:45:23,819 themselves defending wrestling was defending yourself exactly, 568 00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:28,859 yeah because being a wrestling fan is like being stupid or something no you got to defend yourself. 569 00:45:31,059 --> 00:45:36,979 Start young too you know because the conversation takes place in your playground 570 00:45:36,979 --> 00:45:39,719 or your, you know, sixth grade home. 571 00:45:39,979

--> 00:45:42,519 Yeah. Yeah, classroom, yeah. Yeah. 572 00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:46,939 And, oh, that's so fake. I mean, you never watched it. It's like, 573 00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:48,739 oh, that's so fake. It's not. 574 00:45:49,739 --> 00:45:52,599 You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course, of course. Everybody, 575 00:45:52,919 --> 00:45:56,079 yeah, I think we've all had that experience once or twice at least. 576 00:45:56,659 --> 00:46:01,959 So we kind of share the stigma of it, you know? 577 00:46:01,959 --> 00:46:04,919 And that's why it's so good to run into another 578 00:46:04,919 --> 00:46:08,219 wrestling fan you know in from different homeroom 579 00:46:08,219 --> 00:46:16,319 or something that's right you become friends and go to someone somebody's parents 580 00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:21,239 house in basement and watch wrestling together you know that's right yeah yeah 581 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:26,299 yeah but it was like it was not he was all still, 582 00:46:26,899 --> 00:46:28,659 like a transition period. 583 00:46:30,419 --> 00:46:38,459 Logan Paul or Bud Bunny or Fuachao today, these wrestling talents don't fit in that picture. 584 00:46:39,474 --> 00:46:44,934 It's different. It is different now. I think both the non-wrestling wrestlers 585 00:46:44,934 --> 00:46:48,774 and the fan base have a different perspective. 586 00:46:49,094 --> 00:46:50,874 I think it's different now. Yeah, have changed. 587 00:46:51,754 --> 00:46:55,754 It's completely changed over the years, yeah. But it's been, 588 00:46:55,914 --> 00:46:58,474 yeah. I think it's very today's wrestling. 589 00:46:58,954 --> 00:47:03,954 It's good to have Bad Bunny in there now. 590 00:47:04,234 --> 00:47:08,974 And Fu Hua Cheng will be accepted. Not a title match, but when she comes in, 591 00:47:09,474 --> 00:47:16,014 And she can have regular tag team and how good she wrestles will clap. 592 00:47:16,594 --> 00:47:21,494 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I think having some of these non-wrestling 593 00:47:21,494 --> 00:47:27,994 wrestlers that seem to really enjoy it is a huge factor in it being successful. 594 00:47:28,354 --> 00:47:31,714 I think. You know, so wrestlers are helping them train. 595 00:47:32,434 --> 00:47:35,534 They're committed. More committed, more hands-on. 596 00:47:35,674 --> 00:47:38,934 I don't know if you remember a couple of years ago. though, it was on the all-in 597 00:47:38,934 --> 00:47:42,914 pay-per-view where Stephen Amell, do you remember him? 598 00:47:43,014 --> 00:47:45,914 He's an actor. He was on the show Arrow, Green Arrow. 599 00:47:46,314 --> 00:47:50,274 Oh, okay, okay. He was at that, and he was actually at, before that, 600 00:47:50,394 --> 00:47:56,854 he was at SummerSlam as a tag team partner with Pac, with Adrian Neville. 601 00:47:57,574 --> 00:48:01,554 Right, right. But not exactly main event. No, no. 602 00:48:02,494 --> 00:48:07,554 Almost mid-card. But he was another guy who seemed to train much more than

a 603 00:48:07,554 --> 00:48:12,614 lot of other non-wrestling wrestlers who haven't passed they don't look bad, 604 00:48:13,434 --> 00:48:19,794 and the matches yeah it has a respect for wrestlers and wrestling there's a difference. 605 00:48:22,314 --> 00:48:22,494 Right, 606 00:48:23,495 --> 00:48:28,555 I think Logan Paul is like a wrestler. You know, it's like you want to do a 607 00:48:28,555 --> 00:48:31,535 great high spot with Ricochet, you know? 608 00:48:33,115 --> 00:48:40,195 So are you with me? Yeah. I was remembering even before WrestleMania, 609 00:48:40,315 --> 00:48:48,935 I remember that guys like Joe Lewis would be special guest referees in pro wrestling. 610 00:48:48,935 --> 00:48:52,155 Way back when in 50s 611 00:48:52,155 --> 00:48:55,435 there was a mike mizaki right uh the 612 00:48:55,435 --> 00:48:58,495 football player yeah yeah yeah so 613 00:48:58,495 --> 00:49:02,415 always had some celebrity involvement yeah 614 00:49:02,415 --> 00:49:05,675 but not regular yeah yeah 615 00:49:05,675 --> 00:49:09,335 boxing like today yeah former 616 00:49:09,335 --> 00:49:12,515 heavyweight boxing champion joe lewis being guest 617 00:49:12,515 --> 00:49:15,515 referee yes they even did that in japan too 618 00:49:15,515 --> 00:49:18,555 joe lewis came to japan how early 619 00:49:18,555 --> 00:49:22,115 that was pretty early on wasn't it oh like a 1954 or 620 00:49:22,115 --> 00:49:26,175 something yeah yeah some of the early tours yeah so 621 00:49:26,175 --> 00:49:29,235 the mike mazurki with with sharp brothers 622 00:49:29,235 --> 00:49:32,715 yeah ricky dawson was like very very aware 623 00:49:32,715 --> 00:49:39,995 that you know interesting huh yeah so we always had that kind yeah and also 624 00:49:39,995 --> 00:49:44,995 if you look at people like uh leonard mulaney he's more of a football player 625 00:49:44,995 --> 00:49:50,875 than a wrestler but he was also a wrestling you know wrestling superstar so there's always. 626 00:49:51,675 --> 00:49:58,995 Crossover i mean well the point is to have more audience actually yeah now it's 627 00:49:58,995 --> 00:50:05,795 your streaming number you know the subscriber number i guess it just yeah technology 628 00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:09,915 has changed but it evolved but that the point is the same. 629 00:50:09,975 --> 00:50:15,615 Yeah, you have more general public audience buying it because of it. 630 00:50:17,536 --> 00:50:21,316 But the perception has changed, yes. 631 00:50:22,276 --> 00:50:28,876 That today's celebrity superstars can come in and have almost regular wrestling 632 00:50:28,876 --> 00:50:30,776 match, and it's accepted. 633 00:50:31,856 --> 00:50:35,476 Yeah, it's definitely, especially now more than ever, it's changed. 634 00:50:36,036 --> 00:50:42,096 Yeah, I think so. I think so. So it really signifies or symbolizes that that's 635 00:50:42,096 --> 00:50:43,376 how today's wrestling is. 636 00:50:43,376 --> 00:50:50,556 Not a main event but it's close up

there like I said Bud Bunny against, 637 00:50:51,796 --> 00:50:57,516 Damien Priest in Puerto Rico that is considered main event almost of course 638 00:50:57,516 --> 00:51:02,976 Brock Lesnar against Cody Rhodes was main event you know but just as big as 639 00:51:02,976 --> 00:51:08,016 they are that Damien Priest against Bud Bunny was like your main event at Backlash. 640 00:51:09,276 --> 00:51:12,236 Yeah but it's a the situation 641 00:51:12,236 --> 00:51:16,276 too that was in in puerto rico you know yeah it 642 00:51:16,276 --> 00:51:19,316 was a different situation so yeah yeah yeah 643 00:51:19,316 --> 00:51:23,316 but bud bunny is one of the biggest non-wrestling celebrity 644 00:51:23,316 --> 00:51:26,336 superstar that worked in the ring i mean 645 00:51:26,336 --> 00:51:29,456 today's yeah i mean he's definitely 646 00:51:29,456 --> 00:51:36,716 he has huge fan base and he's also really invested more so than other celebrities 647 00:51:36,716 --> 00:51:42,436 over the years he's it's it's different and i I think he's bringing a lot of 648 00:51:42,436 --> 00:51:46,536 positive perspective to non-wrestling fans. 649 00:51:46,736 --> 00:51:50,256 I think he's helping change the image a little bit. 650 00:51:51,411 --> 00:51:57,871 A similar thing was that the very beginning of stardom, that the star of stardom 651 00:51:57,871 --> 00:52:02,231 11 years ago was Yuzupon, if you remember. Yuzuki Aikawa. 652 00:52:02,791 --> 00:52:09,071 The famous, you know, the model and the talent that it was going to be a one 653 00:52:09,071 --> 00:52:15,111 match deal that they were going to do like a reality show that the Yuzupon is 654 00:52:15,111 --> 00:52:17,571 trained and have a one wrestling match. 655 00:52:17,571 --> 00:52:22,751 But instead, she started showing up every day at the dojo. 656 00:52:22,851 --> 00:52:28,751 See, when Stardom started, Rashi didn't have their own dojo yet. 657 00:52:28,891 --> 00:52:33,571 They were using Shinkiba first ring because they got the wrestling ring and, 658 00:52:33,591 --> 00:52:36,151 you know, let you use during afternoon when they don't have shows. 659 00:52:37,151 --> 00:52:40,511 And Yuzupo starts showing up every afternoon. 660 00:52:40,771 --> 00:52:44,651 Like, if I do this, I want to do it right, and I want to, you know, 661 00:52:44,651 --> 00:52:49,911 practice with everybody else. and they just came to every training session every 662 00:52:49,911 --> 00:52:54,091 afternoon and ended up working full-time for another year or two, 663 00:52:54,191 --> 00:52:55,611 I mean like for a three-year period. 664 00:52:56,051 --> 00:52:59,831 And it all started out as a one-shot deal. 665 00:52:59,991 --> 00:53:04,051 It was going to be a part of the – they were filming for the reality TV kind 666 00:53:04,051 --> 00:53:07,611 of thing and Yuzpon was going to have just one match. 667 00:53:07,891 --> 00:53:12,551 Instead, she wanted to have a full-time schedule with Stardom. 668 00:53:12,551 --> 00:53:16,191 That had like a jumpstart of stardom as a company. 669 00:53:17,391 --> 00:53:19,131 That was very interesting. 670 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:29,620 Now that Yuzupon is retired and married and had kids, but I just saw Yuzupon's very recent photos. 671 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:36,540 She is bodybuilder now. Really? Oh, God, ripped. Really? 672 00:53:37,980 --> 00:53:42,640 Huh, I didn't know that. Yuzupon does not look like somebody who gave birth 673 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,480 to a child. I mean, really. Wow. 674 00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:49,200 No body fat whatsoever. 675 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,480 So ever amazing it's six pack on your 676 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,340 stomach all tanned and she looks like 677 00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:58,240 professional i mean probably will 678 00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:01,300 participate in bodybuilding contest now because if she's 679 00:54:01,300 --> 00:54:04,540 looking like that she just showed this 680 00:54:04,540 --> 00:54:07,480 you know start showing this most recent photos 681 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,760 of usable as a like a like bodybuilder 682 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,860 bodybuilder you'll probably you'll probably probably 683 00:54:14,860 --> 00:54:18,080 find it yeah i'll do my investigating later 684 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,420 on okay tonight yeah it hasn't been 685 00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:24,160 out yet but that's what she looks like 686 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,160 what she useful is very very motivated 687 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:34,220 person i didn't think it was the end of music on that you know the famous model 688 00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:41,200 famous graphic idol and talent tv talent and turned wrestler and she won the 689 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,360 Wrestler of the Year Tokyo Sports Award, three years in a row. 690 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:51,600 Then she retired, got married, had a child. 691 00:54:52,060 --> 00:54:56,620 And for like four or five years, we didn't hear anything about her. 692 00:54:56,940 --> 00:54:59,620 Now she came up with this. 693 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:04,060 Recent photo of hers is so ripped. 694 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,220 I mean, face is still usable, but she looks like professional bodybuilder. 695 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:17,440 Wow. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so I'm pretty sure there will be seen a lot more Yuzupon 696 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,100 in the next few months. In Stardom? 697 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,880 Well, I think it's more of a mainstream. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. 698 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:31,680 Very interesting. Very interesting, huh? Well, because it really helped jumpstart 699 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,720 Stardom when they started, you know. 700 00:55:33,780 --> 00:55:37,660 It was, you know, Fuka and her friends first, right? 701 00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:47,300 Mm-hmm. And Nanai Takahashi, a former All Japan Women's, who actually trained other girls, 702 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:55,600 and Mayu Iwatani was a rookie then, you know, and

yeah, Statham too, 703 00:55:55,740 --> 00:55:57,880 have like a 12-year history already, yeah. 704 00:55:59,010 --> 00:56:04,550 That'll be very interesting, yeah. And also, Stardom is more of a platform of 705 00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:05,850 a lot of things, you know. 706 00:56:05,890 --> 00:56:09,390 You see, Iwatani's movie is still coming out, you know. 707 00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:16,330 Yeah, yeah, a lot of things. And some of the wrestlers, not just some, 708 00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:21,330 but quite a few wrestlers that Stardom has, they were former idols, 709 00:56:21,610 --> 00:56:23,990 you know, like a dancing idol, a singing idol. 710 00:56:24,110 --> 00:56:27,530 You know how teenage pop idols are in Japan? 711 00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:30,430 Yeah yeah and you know it's a 712 00:56:30,430 --> 00:56:33,230 little bit different in japan too i don't and i have a hard 713 00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:37,330 time explaining yeah women's wrestling yes yeah and 714 00:56:37,330 --> 00:56:40,350 also this that the pop singing 715 00:56:40,350 --> 00:56:43,410 you know dancing idols are as a 716 00:56:43,410 --> 00:56:46,650 pop culture subculture in japan you 717 00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:50,510 gotta have to explain that to american audience yeah or 718 00:56:50,510 --> 00:56:54,570 just a concept of something like a talent well 719 00:56:54,570 --> 00:56:57,530 like that what would you say a talent is 720 00:56:57,530 --> 00:57:00,670 in japanese when you say talento 721 00:57:00,670 --> 00:57:03,910 like you say like it's japanese not english 722 00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:07,890 word because it's kind of like talento right 723 00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:11,990 talento yeah yeah so it's like singing and 724 00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:14,710 acting and comedy you kind 725 00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:17,510 of do it yeah being a model you kind 726 00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:20,710 of do everything like a more traditional star 727 00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:28,030 quiz shows talk show or cooking shows or the traveling shows uh i mean just 728 00:57:28,030 --> 00:57:36,050 they they just make make them do everything while they're hot i mean like the 729 00:57:36,050 --> 00:57:38,830 products right right Right. Yeah, yeah. 730 00:57:39,590 --> 00:57:45,450 Because that'll last just only five years or so in your lifetime, you know? 731 00:57:46,030 --> 00:57:50,250 And some people are going to serious acting. Some people will retire. 732 00:57:50,530 --> 00:57:57,230 Some people will go into, I don't know, politics or something. Sure, sure. Yeah. 733 00:57:58,490 --> 00:58:01,490 So the Yuzupon is in her next stage. 734 00:58:02,330 --> 00:58:06,130 Very interesting. That is, yeah. Yeah, but at the same time, 735 00:58:06,210 --> 00:58:11,510 like, you know, like a Himeka, you know, she decided she wanted to have regular 736 00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:15,330 second life, and she walked out of wrestling. Mm-hmm. 737 00:58:15,770 --> 00:58:20,530 Yeah. So that is also another, you know, I

don't know, another way to, 738 00:58:20,530 --> 00:58:22,430 you know, end your wrestling career. 739 00:58:22,590 --> 00:58:26,010 I mean, female wrestling, women's wrestling in Japan. Mm-hmm. 740 00:58:27,590 --> 00:58:31,370 So, yeah, it's really different that you have to understand, 741 00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:33,490 you know, women's wrestling in Japan. Yeah. 742 00:58:34,488 --> 00:58:41,348 Yeah that's a there's a lot of context there in history yeah and then also like crossover now like, 743 00:58:41,928 --> 00:58:44,588 not a stardom star but you're what's her 744 00:58:44,588 --> 00:58:47,708 name maki ito from tokyo joshi who is 745 00:58:47,708 --> 00:58:50,928 like a really different audience that's right 746 00:58:50,928 --> 00:58:57,288 less catering more to newer fans and less to like a wrestling athletics wrestling 747 00:58:57,288 --> 00:59:02,088 type yeah yeah i don't think she's all that good a wrestler but the she She 748 00:59:02,088 --> 00:59:08,148 is the only one with over 150,000 followers on Instagram, right? 749 00:59:08,308 --> 00:59:14,648 Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And also, she looks like Japanese anime for you guys, right? 750 00:59:15,288 --> 00:59:23,028 Yeah. She looks like Harajuku girl, like your typical girl standing at Yoyogi Station. 751 00:59:23,788 --> 00:59:27,348 You know what I mean? Standing in the corner. 752 00:59:27,908 --> 00:59:31,548 They have the same kind of dress. It's very common. it 753 00:59:31,548 --> 00:59:36,028 could be pretty annoying for some people with red 754 00:59:36,028 --> 00:59:40,208 hair with mini skirts oh everything there's 755 00:59:40,208 --> 00:59:43,488 a lot of loud and interesting fashion down 756 00:59:43,488 --> 00:59:46,788 in that area that kind of characteristics 757 00:59:46,788 --> 00:59:50,168 moved into wrestling pop 758 00:59:50,168 --> 00:59:53,108 culture to me they 759 00:59:53,108 --> 00:59:55,968 are using wrestling as a 760 00:59:55,968 --> 01:00:01,548 vehicle instead of somebody wanting to be a wrestler kind of like a WWE diva 761 01:00:01,548 --> 01:00:08,568 era in a way yeah I guess I don't mean to generalize I know that but something 762 01:00:08,568 --> 01:00:14,188 that will make you famous or something you can sense that in some wrestlers. 763 01:00:15,277 --> 01:00:19,437 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good and bad. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. 764 01:00:19,817 --> 01:00:24,957 So the celebrity involvement will always be there, yeah. 765 01:00:25,497 --> 01:00:29,657 It seems like it'll be even more important in the future. 766 01:00:29,737 --> 01:00:35,037 Don't you think so? Because of how accepting fans are these days? 767 01:00:35,557 --> 01:00:38,677 But not every wrestler will be a celebrity. 768 01:00:38,957 --> 01:00:42,217 You know, there's always going to be a wrestler, you know? know 769 01:00:42,217 --> 01:00:46,077 and i'm like i'm a big fan of utami hayashi 770 01:00:46,077 --> 01:00:49,217 or somebody like it looks like a wrestler 771 01:00:49,217 --> 01:00:57,637 right yeah yes yes so i believe in them yeah yeah and also you know hiroshi 772 01:00:57,637 --> 01:01:03,257 tanahashi crossover superstar but he's famous because he's a wrestling star 773 01:01:03,257 --> 01:01:07,517 does that make sense sure that's right or Or like a Togi Makabe. 774 01:01:08,357 --> 01:01:16,657 Oh, the eating sweets? Yeah. I felt like he's even more popular for being on 775 01:01:16,657 --> 01:01:20,457 the chat shows these days than as an English wrestler. 776 01:01:20,537 --> 01:01:24,337 Yeah, because he has a headline in his shows. Sometimes he's not on the card. 777 01:01:24,617 --> 01:01:29,137 I feel like you see him more on Japanese television than New Japan. 778 01:01:29,337 --> 01:01:32,117 Yeah, the wrestler guy who eats all kinds of sweets. 779 01:01:32,377 --> 01:01:34,497 Yeah, and has a lot of interesting comments. 780 01:01:35,197 --> 01:01:41,777 Yeah. Oh, the Toriano is the same way, too. I mean, he's so commercial. Yeah, yeah. Well. 781 01:01:42,957 --> 01:01:46,677 But the Toriano isn't exactly a headliner. 782 01:01:49,958 --> 01:01:52,818 It's interesting because these characters they can also 783 01:01:52,818 --> 01:01:55,718 have really long successful careers and 784 01:01:55,718 --> 01:02:01,898 pro wrestling with by doing these sorts of things just like in the states like 785 01:02:01,898 --> 01:02:08,298 the guy dan hausen i don't see him wrestle too much but he's so popular ah being 786 01:02:08,298 --> 01:02:12,918 famous being famous yeah and And appearing on television shows and podcasts 787 01:02:12,918 --> 01:02:15,318 and having lots of special appearances. 788 01:02:16,478 --> 01:02:21,538 And, you know, that's more common to see these days. 789 01:02:22,058 --> 01:02:28,618 With the internet, with how fast information can flow and how quickly people can get popular. 790 01:02:28,958 --> 01:02:32,338 People can get popular in a really short amount of time. I remember, 791 01:02:32,878 --> 01:02:35,418 you know, the former Stardom star, Yoshiko. 792 01:02:35,818 --> 01:02:40,518 Of course. Oh, she. She's also a YouTuber superstar now. 793 01:02:41,038 --> 01:02:46,378 Yeah, the pandemic, she started making baking and cooking videos. 794 01:02:47,438 --> 01:02:50,878 Yeah, super famous. And does she wrestle anymore? 795 01:02:51,838 --> 01:02:55,478 I haven't seen her doing it. Is she active? 796 01:02:57,058 --> 01:03:02,138 Yeah, I haven't seen her having any important matches. 797 01:03:02,678 --> 01:03:06,198 Yeah, I wonder if she's... She's not retired. Retired, you know, 798 01:03:06,198 --> 01:03:10,378 reminds me of kind of like you're like a Dolph Ziggler status. 799 01:03:10,778 --> 01:03:15,038 I mean, not retired, but never be on TV anymore. 800 01:03:15,278 --> 01:03:22,438 Sure. Yeah. Or somebody like, you know, Miz, you know, he will be given a pretty 801 01:03:22,438 --> 01:03:26,358 higher up there, but not in the title match picture. But the guy is a

famous guy. 802 01:03:26,898 --> 01:03:32,618 Yeah. And he's even more these days, more regular and popular with fans because 803 01:03:32,618 --> 01:03:34,198 of his television show with his wife. 804 01:03:34,198 --> 01:03:36,978 It's a very popular tv show even for 805 01:03:36,978 --> 01:03:39,698 non-wrestling fans yeah none of those 806 01:03:39,698 --> 01:03:42,538 tv show existed in 90s or 807 01:03:42,538 --> 01:03:45,938 80s you know what i'm saying so it's like a more platform to 808 01:03:45,938 --> 01:03:48,758 them yeah now it's 809 01:03:48,758 --> 01:03:52,698 like youtube you know thing is 810 01:03:52,698 --> 01:03:55,538 just as big as tv once was 811 01:03:55,538 --> 01:03:59,638 right maybe bigger probably for 812 01:03:59,638 --> 01:04:04,178 younger audience yes and you know yeah but 813 01:04:04,178 --> 01:04:12,618 for younger audience i mean i think going forward celebrities and what we call 814 01:04:12,618 --> 01:04:19,538 mainstream or really popular non-wrestling acts and wrestling interacting with 815 01:04:19,538 --> 01:04:23,658 each other is going to be not just more common but the younger generation is going to. 816 01:04:24,538 --> 01:04:30,498 Was that you are a professional wrestler and you are a YouTuber at the same time. 817 01:04:31,545 --> 01:04:37,225 I mean, both popular, you know, but yes, I think Yoshiko in her case, 818 01:04:37,405 --> 01:04:41,265 she's, you know, becoming more and more popular as a YouTuber, 819 01:04:41,445 --> 01:04:44,285 her cooking and baking program. 820 01:04:44,745 --> 01:04:46,985 She looks very different now too. 821 01:04:47,905 --> 01:04:52,305 Oh, different makeup. Yeah. And yeah, you're smaller. I guess. 822 01:04:52,525 --> 01:04:55,625 Yeah. so i mean we 823 01:04:55,625 --> 01:04:59,005 could talk about there's so many instances of celebrities 824 01:04:59,005 --> 01:05:05,325 and and non-wrestling acts and wrestling over the years from you and i talk 825 01:05:05,325 --> 01:05:12,485 about just a wrestler becoming one sure yeah or i mean and not just in america 826 01:05:12,485 --> 01:05:16,225 but in japan yeah yeah i mean we there's the, 827 01:05:17,125 --> 01:05:22,085 Takeshi Kitano trying to kind of get involved with wrestling back in the 80s. 828 01:05:22,205 --> 01:05:26,265 If that was TBSI who wanted him and he didn't want to do it then, no, not much. 829 01:05:26,605 --> 01:05:28,505 Yeah, it's a different situation. 830 01:05:29,185 --> 01:05:36,965 Right. Back in the 80s and 90s wrestling business was the one who needed celebrities' involvement. 831 01:05:37,325 --> 01:05:42,685 But now it's other celebrities that is using wrestling as their vehicle too. 832 01:05:42,785 --> 01:05:47,485 That's right, yeah. Yeah, it's different, and it creates a different effect. 833 01:05:48,525 --> 01:05:54,065 I think so. And it's getting broader and broader, though, that the wrestlers 834 01:05:54,065 --> 01:05:57,745 are becoming your YouTube celebrity, too. 835

01:05:57,845 --> 01:06:06,525 So I think the boundary would be so borderless or blur or something. 836 01:06:06,865 --> 01:06:12,805 Yeah, it's getting more and more blurry, like you said. Yeah, 837 01:06:12,905 --> 01:06:14,045 yeah, a little bit, yeah. 838 01:06:14,185 --> 01:06:21,085 And also, I guess we have more celebrities today than they had in the 70s and 839 01:06:21,085 --> 01:06:26,185 80s, 90s, because there are a lot more platforms, media-wise. Mm-hmm. 840 01:06:27,602 --> 01:06:31,262 We have more chances for people to get popular. Yeah, I guess. 841 01:06:31,482 --> 01:06:35,222 And non-traditional celebrities, too. Like you said, FlaChon is a YouTuber. 842 01:06:36,062 --> 01:06:38,102 Yeah, YouTuber. It's a new occupation. 843 01:06:39,382 --> 01:06:42,782 Right. There was no such thing, even 10 years ago. 844 01:06:45,562 --> 01:06:49,742 I'll stick with traditional pro wrestling. I'm a traditional wrestling fan. 845 01:06:49,982 --> 01:06:52,862 Sure. I just want to see good match and good show. 846 01:06:53,122 --> 01:06:56,722 What Terry Funk would say, good night of wrestling. Yeah. 847 01:06:57,602 --> 01:07:00,302 Yeah. Enjoy a good night of wrestling. 848 01:07:01,482 --> 01:07:05,262 But it seems like, you know, it's always going to be part of wrestling. 849 01:07:05,822 --> 01:07:10,842 There's no going back, no. Yeah. And I mean, if it can bring more people to 850 01:07:10,842 --> 01:07:14,482 watch wrestling that never watched it before, that's probably a good thing. Right, right. 851 01:07:14,582 --> 01:07:19,662 And I'm hoping that those new audience will stay with wrestling and fall in 852 01:07:19,662 --> 01:07:22,922 love with wrestling and become real wrestling fans. 853 01:07:23,602 --> 01:07:27,082 Yeah. Yeah, and hopefully these characters like Bad Bunny and Fuachan, 854 01:07:27,162 --> 01:07:32,422 their passion might inspire their fans to enjoy wrestling even more. 855 01:07:33,082 --> 01:07:37,342 Yeah, and they start actually understanding wrestling. But they still have to 856 01:07:37,342 --> 01:07:39,542 go through all these things you and I have gone through. 857 01:07:40,802 --> 01:07:45,102 That's right. Yeah, I mean, the stigma is still there a little bit, right? 858 01:07:45,642 --> 01:07:52,002 Yeah. Well, some of these people might help break that stigma down, you know? 859 01:07:52,722 --> 01:07:55,442 Yeah because what i'm trying to get 860 01:07:55,442 --> 01:07:59,122 to is that you know calling wrestling fake is 861 01:07:59,122 --> 01:08:02,022 so wrong it's very old it's a very old 862 01:08:02,022 --> 01:08:05,902 argument it's like it's just 863 01:08:05,902 --> 01:08:08,802 it's not even it's just doesn't cover 864 01:08:08,802 --> 01:08:11,742 anything it doesn't it doesn't really say 865 01:08:11,742 --> 01:08:14,402 anything how little you know right it's just 866 01:08:14,402 --> 01:08:17,322 kind of like yeah so that's what people that 867 01:08:17,322 --> 01:08:20,222 never watched it say so i i 868 01:08:20,222 --> 01:08:25,562 think there's a more general respect for the art of wrestling in 2023 I think 869 01:08:25,562 --> 01:08:32,302 in general I think so I sure hope so so we'll see how what happens in the future 870 01:08:32,302 --> 01:08:35,762 because I think it'll have an effect on fans and they'll approach wrestling 871 01:08:35,762 --> 01:08:39,682 differently yeah yeah 10-20 years from now, 872 01:08:40,602 --> 01:08:46,102 it's 2023 and that's what's happening today we'll see what happens. 873 01:08:47,102 --> 01:08:53,102 Well Well, if we missed any, I'm sure we missed some celebrity sightings or 874 01:08:53,102 --> 01:08:56,902 involved because there's so important point to be made. 875 01:08:57,582 --> 01:09:02,282 Well, if somebody has an idea and a suggestion, if they think we missed anything, 876 01:09:02,442 --> 01:09:05,922 where can we find you on Twitter or on social media? 877 01:09:06,322 --> 01:09:09,162 Right. On Twitter at Fumi Hiko Dayo. 878 01:09:09,242 --> 01:09:12,902 F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O-D-A-Y-O Fumi Hiko Dayo. 879 01:09:12,942 --> 01:09:19,202 Or just Fumi Saito on Facebook. facebook and on twitter i'm at justin m nipper 880 01:09:19,202 --> 01:09:25,422 k-n-i-p-p-e-r and that's it for this week until next time so long from tokyo. 881 01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:41,715 Music.