Full Transcript for Voting and Comics with Yoe Greene and Ferris

get 34 00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:59.079 together on a Zoom call to talk about a graphic novel. 35 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.620 Your support helps keep Word Balloon independent and brings you 36 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.680 even closer to the conversation. Join us today, patreon.com slash wordballoon. 37 00:02:08.020 --> 00:02:11.310 Thank you for your support, League of Word Balloon listeners. Hi, everybody. 38 00:02:11.469 --> 00:02:14.729 Welcome back. It's Word Balloon, the comic book conversation show. 39 00:02:15.150 --> 00:02:17.750 John Sutris here with a really important Word Balloon today. 40 00:02:18.430 --> 00:02:21.949 We're just over a week before Election Day, and we've 41 00:02:21.969 --> 00:02:24.569 got a great panel here to talk about the strange 42 00:02:24.629 --> 00:02:28.069 history of voting in comics. It really does go back 43 00:02:28.490 --> 00:02:31.310 to the Golden Age, actually before the Golden Age of comics, 44 00:02:31.830 --> 00:02:37.770 and some evidence that our linchpin dug up. He always 45 00:02:37.849 --> 00:02:43.139 creates incredible collections of comics and continued to explore them. 46 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.539 areas of the history of comics that could have gotten 47 00:02:47.590 --> 00:02:50.610 neglected if it wasn't for his efforts. It's Craig Yeo, everybody. 48 00:02:50.650 --> 00:02:51.250 Good to see you, Craig. 49 00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:54.349 Thanks for that nice introduction. And thanks for bringing on 50 00:02:54.370 --> 00:02:57.389 these other stellar stars here with me. Wow, you're making 51 00:02:57.409 --> 00:02:57.870 me look good. 52 00:02:58.909 --> 00:03:02.569 They're making me look good. I got my buddy Sanford Green, who, 53 00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:05.800 of course, right now is... uh, doing the victory lap 54 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.580 for his excellent, uh, collections of, uh, bitter root and 55 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:11.080 then the like, uh, well done Sanford. Congratulations. 56 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:15.060 Oh, thanks, John. Um, Hey, it just seems like yesterday 57 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:18.979 that we, uh, hung out, man. 58 00:03:19.539 --> 00:03:23.960 Yeah, we were, we were both hanging out in Baltimore, different, uh, 59 00:03:24.020 --> 00:03:26.280 virtual rooms, but, uh, you did a hell of a job. 60 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.330 You and, uh, and Chuck and, uh, David and, uh, 61 00:03:29.389 --> 00:03:32.620 and Shelly, I really enjoyed the conversation and, uh, For 62 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:36.159 audio listeners, a future episode of Word Balloon coming in 63 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:38.199 the days and weeks ahead. There's a lot of content 64 00:03:38.219 --> 00:03:40.460 we're going to get through from Baltimore Comic Con, and 65 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:41.780 I'll be sharing with you in the days ahead. 66 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:44.120 And last but certainly not least, and I've been wanting 67 00:03:44.139 --> 00:03:45.860 to talk to her for a long time, Emil Farris, 68 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:51.409 an incredible cartoonist, a Chicago and really a very accomplished person. 69 00:03:51.729 --> 00:03:53.189 It's a pleasure to meet you, Emil. 70 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:53.629 Welcome. 71 00:03:54.430 --> 00:03:57.330 It's lovely to meet you as well, John. Thank you. 72 00:03:57.569 --> 00:04:00.500 And it's great to, I mean, this is my... First 73 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:02.939 time meeting. I know Craig. 74 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:07.039 You can call me Yo. Yeah, I know Yo. I know. 75 00:04:07.099 --> 00:04:09.939 I think in Chicago there. I know Yo, but I 76 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:13.060 heard and I admired his work. So it's really, really 77 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.050 nice to meet you and meet you all. 78 00:04:16.310 --> 00:04:16.550 Yeah. 79 00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:20.990 And John, your show is great. I enjoyed an awful 80 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:24.990 lot again. Yeah. Well, you know, it's all my, it's 81 00:04:25.029 --> 00:04:26.149 my kind of stuff, you know? 82 00:04:26.870 --> 00:04:28.310 I do know. That's fantastic. 83 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:28.810 Seriously. 84 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:31.120 I love that. And then, of course, hey, we're both 85 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:34.480 Chicago people. We all, unfortunately, we know all about voting 86 00:04:34.540 --> 00:04:35.930 and voting chicanery, obviously. 87 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:39.389 Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's true. Vote early and vote often. 88 00:04:39.509 --> 00:04:40.170 I shouldn't say that. 89 00:04:40.350 --> 00:04:40.889 I didn't mean that. 90 00:04:41.149 --> 00:04:42.389 No, no. No, no. 91 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:44.529 And we'll, Emil and I will stay out of the 92 00:04:44.569 --> 00:04:46.569 Chicago graveyard collecting votes as well. 93 00:04:46.970 --> 00:04:47.230 Yeah. 94 00:04:47.290 --> 00:04:50.000 So, what are you going to do? 95 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:52.639 I used to live in Chicago, so I think there's 96 00:04:52.779 --> 00:04:54.720 still people voting in my name there, probably. 97 00:04:55.629 --> 00:04:57.529 Oh, sure. 98 00:04:57.569 --> 00:05:00.149 Let's hope not, but yeah, I understand that. I totally understand. 99 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:02.209 Where'd you live in Chicago, Craig? 100 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:05.069 Well, I worked at Marvin Glass, the first and largest 101 00:05:05.089 --> 00:05:07.589 toy think tank right in Chicago, but I lived in 102 00:05:07.610 --> 00:05:08.000 the Burbs. 103 00:05:08.750 --> 00:05:10.389 Oh, nice. What Burb? 104 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:13.939 Well, I lived in Elgin for a while and Dundee 105 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:14.500 for a while. 106 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:15.180 Great. 107 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.300 Absolutely. Wow. 108 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.920 Fantastic. Abel, what part of the city are you in? 109 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.019 I'm in Roscoe Village. 110 00:05:23.750 --> 00:05:24.810 Oh, you're in Roscoe Village. 111 00:05:24.829 --> 00:05:25.310 Oh, yeah. 112

00:05:25.350 --> 00:05:29.629 I love Roscoe Village. Right now, I'm right on the 113 00:05:29.670 --> 00:05:31.300 border of Chicago and Evanston. 114 00:05:31.939 --> 00:05:35.319 Hey, awesome. God, like Rogers Park, kind of like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. 115 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.399 You know, honestly, I used to live in Evanston, just 116 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.259 north of Rogers Park and right by the old newsstand 117 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.339 that was there at Chicago and Maine. 118 00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:46.149 I love that newsstand. It's still there. 119 00:05:46.170 --> 00:05:46.689 They brought it back. 120 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:51.259 Yeah no is you know oh all right everyone i 121 00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:53.879 was gonna say forgive me because it always was it 122 00:05:53.899 --> 00:05:56.639 was such a great newsstand in terms of the international 123 00:05:56.699 --> 00:05:59.500 reach that that they would provide is it is it 124 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:00.040 still like. 125 00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:04.660 That yeah absolutely. 126 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:06.319 That's great to hear oh my god to. 127 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.259 Have and i think it's something that's missing in a 128 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.490 lot of cities you know absolutely i. 129 00:06:11.470 --> 00:06:14.470 Went to new york city uh to see, uh, Neil Adams, 130 00:06:14.490 --> 00:06:16.910 the other, uh, but he had, he didn't arrive to 131 00:06:16.949 --> 00:06:19.910 the office, uh, right on time. So I just kind 132 00:06:19.970 --> 00:06:22.250 of wandered the streets around his office and there's all 133 00:06:22.269 --> 00:06:28.490 these storefronts that call their newsstand and their magazines. And, 134 00:06:29.170 --> 00:06:31.529 you know, they're, that's the name of the, in the, 135 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:34.689 in the title of their stores. And I walked into 136 00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:37.550 a few of them, not one magazine, not one, not 137 00:06:37.610 --> 00:06:43.310 even one newspaper, just lotto tickets. And, uh, uh smoking 138 00:06:43.430 --> 00:06:48.959 supplies for stuff i guess but uh there's but they 139 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:51.079 but they are you know used to be wander into 140 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:53.579 them and get all these international magazines and everything like 141 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:55.819 they don't even care the new york times. 142 00:06:56.459 --> 00:06:58.959 Well i'm not surprised you know emil and i know 143 00:06:59.019 --> 00:07:03.129 downtown chicago uh has tons of empt or what were 144 00:07:03.170 --> 00:07:06.529 kiosks kind of filled with newspapers of all kinds and 145 00:07:06.689 --> 00:07:10.670 and now they're real estate ads and just anything but 146 00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:13.569 a newspaper. I don't even know if that one, because 147 00:07:13.629 --> 00:07:17.069 I stopped working near the Hancock a while ago, but 148 00:07:17.089 --> 00:07:20.579 there was one active newsstand left. It only seemed to 149 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:22.980 me that it was tourists that were there and not 150 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:26.620 real Chicagoans buying magazines and stuff. 151 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:32.149 I haven't seen a newsstand in at least 10 years. 152 00:07:32.209 --> 00:07:36.029 The only newsstand I've seen recently is the one behind me, 153 00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:39.790 and that's not even really a new thing. It's been 154 00:07:40.329 --> 00:07:40.850 a rat. 155 00:07:41.889 --> 00:07:44.939 I love that. You got the whole crew. 156 00:07:44.980 --> 00:07:45.300 Thank you. 157 00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:53.740 Hey, I think on during the Ringo's, I was scrambling 158 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:55.639 trying to make sure that I got that in a 159 00:07:56.579 --> 00:08:02.769 nice view of everyone because everything to the right of me, yes, 160 00:08:03.310 --> 00:08:06.800 to the Yeah, the left of me is pure chaos. 161 00:08:06.939 --> 00:08:11.680 So we figured we got this. My studio is just 162 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:15.639 filled with books because, you know, of course, COVID has 163 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.279 shut down all of all of the year. So conventions 164 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:23.800 are completely shut down. And so my my studio is 165 00:08:23.860 --> 00:08:28.050 now a distribution center and in the like so. 166 00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:32.750 We're moving pretty soon and the real estate photographers came 167 00:08:32.769 --> 00:08:34.490 to take pictures of our house and all my friends 168 00:08:34.509 --> 00:08:36.909 are saying, oh my God, your house is so spotless 169 00:08:36.950 --> 00:08:39.750 and clean. Well, the photographers come in and they move 170 00:08:39.889 --> 00:08:42.750 all your shit, SHIT or whatever I'm allowed to say, 171 00:08:42.769 --> 00:08:45.720 to one side of the room and photograph the other 172 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.379 side and then they move that stuff to the other 173 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:53.940 side and then do another snapshot. They make your house 174 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:54.919 look really clean, but. 175 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:58.740 There should be, you know, German is such a great 176 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:02.340 language for having these big, long composite words. We need 177 00:09:02.379 --> 00:09:05.600 a word that means that joy you have for the 178 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.620 week after you've packed or like you find things, you know, 179 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.179 just like this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's 180 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:14.730 this point where you're like, I was looking for this 181 00:09:14.750 --> 00:09:17.470 the whole time I lived in this place. And, you know, 182 00:09:17.509 --> 00:09:20.029 you finally find it or I don't know, there's just 183 00:09:20.049 --> 00:09:22.309 got to be some way that we deal with it. 184 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:25.559 As artists, especially, we live in so much chaos. 185 00:09:26.450 -->

00:09:30.490 I've been collecting comics and art for 60 years and 186 00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:35.210 going through lots of stuff to get ready to move. 187 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:38.309 I didn't know I had that. I never knew that 188 00:09:38.389 --> 00:09:45.210 book even existed. I have that book? I find stuff 189 00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:47.750 that hasn't been seen for literally decades. 190 00:09:48.769 --> 00:09:51.789 Well, that's... Go ahead, Sanford. 191 00:09:51.850 --> 00:09:54.090 No, I was going to say, I live for the 192 00:09:54.169 --> 00:10:00.730 day that when we move, that I will find... this 193 00:10:00.830 --> 00:10:08.070 video that I filmed at C2E2. I don't know when 194 00:10:08.110 --> 00:10:10.990 it was a date, but Stanley was the guest of honor. 195 00:10:11.690 --> 00:10:14.330 And I got a chance to film him signing books. 196 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:18.529 And he gives a shout out to my kids and 197 00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:19.029 my wife. 198 00:10:19.830 --> 00:10:20.909 Oh, you got to find that. 199 00:10:21.230 --> 00:10:24.100 And it's somewhere in here, but I know the only 200 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.279 way that I will find it is I got to move. 201 00:10:27.139 --> 00:10:28.059 That's when I'll find it. 202 00:10:28.740 --> 00:10:31.039 I think I saw your wife selling that on eBay 203 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:31.539 last week. 204 00:10:33.539 --> 00:10:37.250 I highly doubt it. She barely knows who Stanley is, 205 00:10:37.309 --> 00:10:42.070 let alone. No kidding. All jokes aside, she knows Stanley. 206 00:10:42.210 --> 00:10:43.730 Yeah, of course. I understand. 207 00:10:44.909 --> 00:10:47.529 Well, I was going to say metaphorically, Craig, the fact 208 00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:50.519 that you're discovering things that you didn't know you had 209 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.759 before and stuff that's kind of a good metaphor for 210 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.700 really your career path and what you've done with these 211 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:59.279 incredibly incredible trades and truly now the book is called 212 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:03.639 Voting is Your Superpower and it's got an amazing Sanford 213 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:04.500 Green cover. 214 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:06.659 Oh that's the best part and then it kind of 215 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.980 goes downhill after. 216 00:11:07.779 --> 00:11:10.340 That stop but no honestly I was going to say. 217 00:11:10.179 --> 00:11:14.289 Here's Sanford's cover there we go there it is nice 218 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:19.870 Sanford well done my friend thank you I'm impressed. And 219 00:11:19.889 --> 00:11:21.110 I'm not easily impressed. 220 00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:25.190 And Abel, are you... I mean, I know with Monsters, 221 00:11:25.210 --> 00:11:29.789 your incredible award-winning book as well. Are you in the 222 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.200 book or are you just here as an advocate, obviously, 223 00:11:32.649 --> 00:11:34.500 as a comic person, letting everyone know, hey, we got 224 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:34.820 to vote? 225 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:36.299 I'm just an advocate. 226 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:38.600 She's on the back of the book. 227 00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:40.539 Oh, that's the back cover? Excuse me. 228 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:43.740 I asked her for a quote and she said, if 229 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:47.610 voting didn't matter, there wouldn't be any there wouldn't be 230 00:11:47.669 --> 00:11:50.830 folks attempting with a whole host of dirty tricks, knowing 231 00:11:51.090 --> 00:11:55.470 from Chicago, to suppress it. That tells you that voting, 232 00:11:55.929 --> 00:11:59.480 that your vote matters. As John Lewis said, the right 233 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.340 to vote is precious, almost sacred. It is the most 234 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:07.000 powerful nonviolent tool or instrument in a democratic society. We 235 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.259 must use it. This wonderful book, Voting is Your Superpower, 236 00:12:11.299 --> 00:12:14.590 drives that truth home like few other books have. Read 237 00:12:14.629 --> 00:12:18.899 this book, March and Vote. So she's on the back cover. 238 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:20.320 Good words. I like it. 239 00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:24.649 Yeah, well, I tried to give visual aid, and it 240 00:12:24.710 --> 00:12:30.269 was a poor attempt at doing that. Out of focus. 241 00:12:30.509 --> 00:12:32.789 You know, when you held up the back cover, though, 242 00:12:32.809 --> 00:12:35.879 with Emile's quote on it, you know who did that drawing? 243 00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:37.919 Who? 244 00:12:38.259 --> 00:12:41.980 Okay, we'll see who guesses it first. Birthday boy. 245 00:12:43.610 --> 00:12:44.610 I don't know. 246 00:12:45.350 --> 00:12:50.799 Related closely related to someone that, that Sanford just mentioned. 247 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:52.279 Oh, Stanley Lieber. 248 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:53.080 Yeah. Larry Lieber. 249 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:54.299 Larry Lieber. 250 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:54.860 Yeah. 251 00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:56.080 He did the back cover. 252 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:56.919 Larry Lieber. 253 00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:57.679 Seriously. 254 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.679 One of the most fascinating creators in comics, given that 255 00:13:01.710 --> 00:13:06.690 he stands brother, the almost anonymity that he lives in. 256 00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:10.129 And Danny figure it off. And I talked about that 257 00:13:10.210 --> 00:13:12.539 in terms of, Like, tell me everything about Larry Lieber. 258 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.340 I actually have, you can see it right there where 259 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:20.340 my finger is. Those are two Spider-Man daily comics. And 260 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.210 Stan wrote the dialogue. Larry did the pencils. And Alex 261 00:13:24.250 --> 00:13:27.460 Saviuk did the inking over it. 262 00:13:27.730 --> 00:13:28.289 Very good. 263 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:30.690 Oh, my God. And I'm friends with Alex.

That's how 264 00:13:30.730 --> 00:13:32.779 I got it. But I do love. Then I own 265 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.690 a piece of all three of their art together in 266 00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:37.830 that collaboration. 267 00:13:38.009 --> 00:13:39.950 I met him for the first time a couple of 268 00:13:39.970 --> 00:13:43.509 years ago at a New Jersey convention and finally got 269 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:46.659 his signature on a piece I got a number of 270 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.740 years back. It's the original artwork where Fin Fan Foom 271 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:55.990 comes to life and Marvel's most famous monster. And I 272 00:13:56.019 --> 00:13:58.370 bought that at a New York comic convention that was 273 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:02.139 in a little hotel. And the guy wanted $ 75 for 274 00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:07.940 this Stanley, Jack Kirby, Dick Ayers, Larry Lieber piece. And 275 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.899 I said, I don't know, would you take 50 bucks? 276 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.700 And so we settled at 65. And right after I 277 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.139 bought it, I was going up the little aisle in 278 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.909 that hotel ballroom and I run into Jack Kirby. And 279 00:14:21.950 --> 00:14:25.129 I go, Jack, look what I just got. And he 280 00:14:25.169 --> 00:14:27.149 took it, and I thought, oh, man, he took it, 281 00:14:27.149 --> 00:14:29.629 and he's not going to give it back. Jack wants 282 00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:32.549 his art back. But he goes, oh, this is great. 283 00:14:32.590 --> 00:14:36.259 I'm really glad you got this, Craig. And he said, 284 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:38.059 would you like me to sign it? And I said, oh, yeah, 285 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.399 that'd be great. So he signed the page where Fin 286 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:44.379 Fan Foom comes to life. Later on, I interviewed Stan 287 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:50.500 Lee right after he met Sanford and family. Sanford and son. 288 00:14:50.539 --> 00:14:53.700 And isn't there a TV show about Sanford and son 289 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.899 and wife and meeting Stanley? 290 00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:56.600 No wife. 291 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:00.980 So I got Stanley to sign it. And then Dick 292 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:03.049 Ayers came and visited me once. He lived not to 293 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:07.070 about 10, 15 minutes from me here. And, but I 294 00:15:07.250 --> 00:15:09.629 was always missing Larry Lieber, but I finally got him 295 00:15:09.669 --> 00:15:12.389 to sign it last week. So I got all four 296 00:15:12.429 --> 00:15:15.629 guys on that fan page. It's kind of exciting to me. 297 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.120 as a young fan boy, I always liked Finn fan foam. 298 00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:20.340 And I do to this day. 299 00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:23.320 And Neil, I like, do you have any like, uh, 300 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.200 old like pages or commission art? Do you like, do 301 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:28.700 you go to any of your favorite artists and, and 302 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:30.600 get stuff or even as a fellow artist, have you 303 00:15:30.620 --> 00:15:32.330 been gifted, uh, pieces? 304 00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:38.049 I have been gifted. And also, um, I have just, uh, 305 00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:40.690 I've fallen in love with some work that, uh, I'm, 306 00:15:42.990 --> 00:15:50.809 I'm buying, um, I like Thomas Ott and Nina Buncevac's 307 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:59.330 work very, very much. Lorenzo Matodi's work. I love his work. Yeah, 308 00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:02.090 there are a lot of people whose work I want, 309 00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:04.509 you know, all the time when I go to shows, 310 00:16:05.029 --> 00:16:07.740 especially in Europe, I see a few things I want, 311 00:16:07.769 --> 00:16:09.529 but I'd see them here too. I just don't go 312 00:16:09.549 --> 00:16:12.039 to very many Comic-Cons here. I haven't been to any. 313 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.139 And the one thing I've been it's. 314 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:17.299 Been too busy for me to really look at the art. 315 00:16:17.539 --> 00:16:19.539 And I would have loved it, but I couldn't. 316 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:22.830 I kind of suspected that you were going to the 317 00:16:22.889 --> 00:16:27.470 European shows, Samuel. Like tell us, obviously, I'm guessing Angoulême 318 00:16:27.610 --> 00:16:29.850 and maybe Luca. But tell me, tell me of the 319 00:16:29.889 --> 00:16:33.480 other great shows that you've been to abroad, especially given 320 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:37.919 our current state of being in terms of God only 321 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:39.139 knows we won't be able to do that again. 322 00:16:39.850 --> 00:16:40.149 Right. 323 00:16:40.690 --> 00:16:43.769 No, it's been a shame. There have been a lot 324 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:46.029 of things I wish were happening, but, you know. 325 00:16:47.210 --> 00:16:49.149 But you did go to a lot of shows. I mean, 326 00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:53.169 you were like a superstar at these shows in Europe 327 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:54.370 and beyond, right? 328 00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:55.549 It was wild. 329 00:16:56.629 --> 00:16:57.629 Yeah. 330 00:16:57.710 --> 00:16:58.250 Well, again. 331 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:01.539 And you must have a giant, you must have had, 332 00:17:01.629 --> 00:17:06.210 you must have like six mantle pieces installed in your 333 00:17:06.230 --> 00:17:07.910 home with all the awards that you have to put 334 00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.470 on them. See it for two. You want to ring go, 335 00:17:10.569 --> 00:17:14.039 you know, you guys are like big time award winners. 336 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:15.619 Absolutely. 337 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:17.960 It's what do you, I don't know. You know, I, 338 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:22.539 I kind of look at them all and think, Oh, 339 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.440 you know, I mean, it's still. 340 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.119 You look at them and think what a meal. 341 00:17:30.190

--> 00:17:31.069 She's shocked, I guess. 342 00:17:31.549 --> 00:17:32.880 Oh, I just, it amazes me. 343 00:17:33.259 --> 00:17:37.819 Yeah, well, we're not, us readers of your work, we're 344 00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:40.400 not amazed that you're getting all this acclaim. 345 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:41.759 Absolutely. 346 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:44.220 And again, Sanford too. I know Sanford, like in the 347 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:49.069 last year, he's won Eisner's and Ringo's and his wife 348 00:17:49.109 --> 00:17:50.890 still makes him take out the garbage, but. 349 00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:55.450 And you know, that's the way it should be done, 350 00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:56.750 I guess. That's how it should be. 351 00:17:57.309 --> 00:17:57.650 Yeah. 352 00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:00.390 Brings balance in the world, I think. 353 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:02.150 Yeah. 354 00:18:02.329 --> 00:18:05.930 I mean, like you guys said, it is pretty surreal. 355 00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:08.759 But I think what we're doing right now, I think 356 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.660 I tweeted this out a few days ago. Besides Bitter 357 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:17.099 Root being a part of this project, when Craig reached 358 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.220 out to me about being a part of it, I 359 00:18:20.269 --> 00:18:23.930 think we originally talked about doing like a spot illustration 360 00:18:23.970 --> 00:18:24.730 or something like that. 361 00:18:24.950 --> 00:18:25.250 Yeah. 362 00:18:25.269 --> 00:18:27.859 And it's kind of grew recently. from there to where 363 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.670 it just kind of made sense. Well, the reason why 364 00:18:31.690 --> 00:18:35.650 I think I had the fortune of doing the cover 365 00:18:35.809 --> 00:18:39.049 is the subject matter, or at least the content that's 366 00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:42.150 in the book. There's a lot of, which I wasn't 367 00:18:42.190 --> 00:18:49.500 aware of. Craig found, I guess, an archived collection of 368 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:57.430 NAACP comic strips that informs the public on voting. And 369 00:18:57.490 --> 00:19:02.549 I'm like, wow, that just fascinated me simply because of 370 00:19:02.630 --> 00:19:09.150 the subject matter. So I was on board because of that. 371 00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:13.630 And we just started talking and passing ideas back and 372 00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:18.299 forth about what will be a great representation to connect 373 00:19:19.180 --> 00:19:26.009 what I do to the content that was within the book. So, 374 00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:31.599 you know, yeah, it was just an extreme honor. And 375 00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:36.359 I've got people that aren't into comics or anything. They're 376 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.920 fascinated by this book because of the fact that it 377 00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:45.329 does speak on, you know, the political and social issues. 378 00:19:45.789 --> 00:19:48.230 And when I first got the book, actually, I was 379 00:19:48.309 --> 00:19:50.900

thumbing through it the other day and you know there 380 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.680 are comic strips in there from the 1930s that are 381 00:19:55.819 --> 00:20:00.700 absolutely prevalent I know today and I'm like this is 382 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:04.900 absolutely insane yeah and I don't know if it's a 383 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.660 good thing right I mean some of it can be 384 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:09.539 if you look at the fact that we're you know 385 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:18.920 we're we're aware of these concerns of voter suppression and 386 00:20:18.980 --> 00:20:21.920 things of that nature, but the mere fact that we're 387 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:27.000 still talking about this hasn't been truly dealt with. That 388 00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:33.549 was a part that was convicting. And yeah, so yeah, 389 00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.470 just to be able to have that conversation with people 390 00:20:37.069 --> 00:20:42.079 that aren't comic readers, to educate them on here is 391 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.609 an actual comic that's dealing with subject matter that is 392 00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:55.809 very relevant to and important to your personal interests. So yeah, 393 00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:58.230 it was pretty fulfilling. 394 00:20:59.069 --> 00:21:03.630 You know, it's interesting that as a historian, you dig 395 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:08.529 into things and you try to find things and these 396 00:21:08.609 --> 00:21:11.829 voting comic books, we reprint eight comic books in full 397 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:16.049 in this book. And they were actually very, there's one 398 00:21:16.069 --> 00:21:18.930 that's not so rare, but the rest of them were like, 399 00:21:18.950 --> 00:21:23.619 were super hard to find. And the, the way the 400 00:21:23.779 --> 00:21:26.779 NCAA CP came into this was an interesting thing because 401 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:30.460 one comic I heard about, but couldn't find it all was, 402 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:35.220 was this one on an American family gets out the vote. 403 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:40.029 And you see what, you know, the typical, American family 404 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:43.390 looks like, you know, all white bread. 405 00:21:43.890 --> 00:21:44.890 Yeah. 406 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:48.849 And all the people going to vote, they're all white. 407 00:21:49.569 --> 00:21:52.049 But if you look real closely, go back in, please. 408 00:21:52.650 --> 00:21:53.450 Right here. 409 00:21:55.069 --> 00:21:55.569 At the bottom. 410 00:21:56.259 --> 00:21:59.000 See where there's a rubber, a red rubber stamp there. 411 00:21:59.740 --> 00:22:00.079 What's that? 412 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:00.980 Oh, yes, it does. 413 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:01.259 Yeah. 414 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:02.799 Publisher action. 415 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.700 In the red letters, it says. Oh, I'm not holding 416 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:08.339 this up very good. 417 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:10.539 Oh, there it is at the very bottom. Sure, NAACP. 418 00:22:10.579 --> 00:22:11.619 Yeah, there we go. 419 00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:12.470 There it is. 420 00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:12.930 Yep. 421 00:22:13.569 --> 00:22:17.829 So the NAACP, to get out the vote, was using 422 00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:22.930 this all-white bread comic book to get out the vote 423 00:22:22.950 --> 00:22:25.190 because that's all they had. And they knew the importance 424 00:22:25.230 --> 00:22:29.319 of getting out the vote for their community, but they 425 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.160 didn't have any tools for it. So they were buying 426 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:38.009 these comics to pass out in their community and to 427 00:22:38.029 --> 00:22:41.960 get out the vote and stamping the NAACP stamp on it. 428 00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:44.539 But it must have given them an idea. That idea 429 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.640 must have lodged in their head like, hey, these comics, 430 00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:53.390 even though they're all white folk, they're effective. And they 431 00:22:53.430 --> 00:22:57.150 maybe even won some elections because of them. So that's 432 00:22:57.210 --> 00:23:02.009 when they started doing their own comic books. And so 433 00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:06.319 that's one of those was this comic. 434 00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:07.259 A Superhero. 435 00:23:08.059 --> 00:23:08.990 Well, no. 436 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.579 Oh, excuse me. I was going to the end of 437 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:11.819 the book. 438 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.680 It's called The Street Where You Live. 439 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.319 Indeed. 440 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.380 And it's a beautiful comic book. And it's done by 441 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.180 a guy who went on to become a famous children's 442 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.220 book artist. He didn't do a lot of comics. But 443 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.640 his name was Tom Feelings. And he was– the comics 444 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.029 in here are beautiful because they're very natural. They really 445 00:23:32.089 --> 00:23:39.140 reflect– the attitude and, and, and the beauty, you know, of, 446 00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:42.799 of his people. And they were effective in getting out 447 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:46.569 the vote. So, and, and then he went on to 448 00:23:46.609 --> 00:23:50.970 win a Coretta Scott King award, I think three or 449 00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:53.569 four times or something, you know? 450 00:23:53.710 --> 00:23:56.589 So I think he's most known for a middle passage. 451 00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:00.190 Is that a kid's book or what is that Sanford? 452 00:24:00.250 --> 00:24:02.519 It was a kid. It, it, It is a kid's book. 453 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.160 Right. 454 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.380 Kind of an interesting side note to Tom Feelings. My 455 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:11.779 art mentor is really good friends with Tom Feelings. 456 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:13.079 Really? 457 00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:14.259 Yeah. 458 00:24:14.900 -->

00:24:16.859 Tom's gone now, but yes. 459 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:22.180 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were good friends. And my art 460 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.619 mentor put me on to Tom Feelings when I was 461 00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:25.900 in college. 462 00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:29.849 School. Is your mentor still around? Oh, yeah. 463 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:33.849 He's phenomenal. He does a lot of, as a matter 464 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:36.490 of fact, speaking of just the subject matter that we're 465 00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:41.670 talking about now, using art to make political statements, that's 466 00:24:41.670 --> 00:24:43.220 90% of what he does now. He used to be 467 00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:48.480 a professor, retired, and he just does exhibitions now. 468 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.500 Well, you'll have to send him this book. 469 00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:51.779 Oh, absolutely. 470 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.680 Yeah, and let him know that his old buddy Tom 471 00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:55.519 Feelings is in it. 472 00:24:55.940 --> 00:24:59.180 Yeah, as I was saying, what's his name, Sanford, your mentor? 473 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.440 Tyrone Jeter. It's like Derek Jeter. 474 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.220 Sure. 475 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:08.420 Last name, but I'm sorry. It's G-E-T-E-R. 476 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:09.200 Okay. 477 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:14.119 Yeah, and Tyrone Jeter. But yeah, he's incredible. His work 478 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.990 is phenomenal. I tried to get him to do a 479 00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:22.869 variant cover for Bitter Root, and he said, you know, 480 00:25:23.069 --> 00:25:26.380 don't hold your breath, but we'll see what happens. i 481 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.119 might be able to get him at some point his 482 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.440 work is incredible though he does well he's a lot 483 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.910 he he's he falls under kind of a john singer 484 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:40.250 sergeant if you're familiar with his work yeah it's beautiful 485 00:25:40.289 --> 00:25:43.549 work yeah beautiful work um oil he does oils he 486 00:25:43.569 --> 00:25:47.460 can do wow pastel he can do charcoal up all 487 00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:51.319 this incredible work but um yeah yeah so there's a 488 00:25:51.890 --> 00:25:52.309 Kind of a. 489 00:25:52.569 --> 00:25:53.170 A connection. 490 00:25:53.450 --> 00:25:55.309 Yeah, two degrees separation, if you will. 491 00:25:55.609 --> 00:25:57.170 That's outstanding. That's fantastic. 492 00:25:57.509 --> 00:25:59.089 If I can then, just for a second, to go 493 00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:02.410 back to birthday boy Larry Lieber. Then the NAACP teamed 494 00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:08.630 up with Marvel Comics later on as the civil rights 495 00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:12.000 movement was really getting rolling. Because that first one was 496 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:15.400 in 1960. This comic is from 1964. It's called The 497 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.759 Future Rests in Your

Hands. And we found... This was 498 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:20.940 another hard one to find, but we found a collector who... 499 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.240 had a signed copy by Larry Lieber. 500 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.079 Oh, that's great. 501 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.890 And, uh, Larry, Larry penciled and, and probably inked it 502 00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:33.670 with maybe a little help from EC artist, Marie Severin. Uh, but, uh, we, 503 00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:35.650 we think Stanley wrote it, but we, we don't know 504 00:26:35.670 --> 00:26:38.240 that for sure, but sure reads like a Stanley comic. 505 00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:39.519 So, uh, wow. 506 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:43.240 So, so that's pretty cool, but it's a really rare Marvel. 507 00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:46.130 You talk about, uh, It's a heck of a lot 508 00:26:46.190 --> 00:26:49.059 rarer than Fantastic Four number one or Spider-Man number one 509 00:26:49.099 --> 00:26:53.200 or even Captain America number one. Copies are really, really 510 00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.859 difficult to find, but at the last second, we were 511 00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.500 able to finally wrestle one to the ground through a 512 00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:01.619 guy by the name of Barry Pearl, who generously lent 513 00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:04.329 his signed copy to us. 514 00:27:04.690 --> 00:27:07.950 Craig, first on that, I don't know if it was 515 00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:11.529 the Leeper feature or the previous one, the lead character, 516 00:27:11.549 --> 00:27:16.900 there's a community leader that's trying to convince, uh, you know, 517 00:27:17.180 --> 00:27:19.609 the people to vote. And I felt even though his 518 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.109 name was, yes, that, that image right there. Hold on 519 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:22.769 one second. 520 00:27:22.789 --> 00:27:24.470 It looks like uncle Sam. 521 00:27:25.269 --> 00:27:28.750 Well, you know, honestly, facially, doesn't he kind of, and 522 00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:32.089 I wondered if it was modeled after Adam Clayton Powell. 523 00:27:33.130 --> 00:27:35.549 Oh, I bet you're right. I think, you know, he 524 00:27:35.569 --> 00:27:36.210 might be right. 525 00:27:36.549 --> 00:27:38.430 And maybe, and maybe, you know, I don't know if 526 00:27:38.490 --> 00:27:41.940 maybe that was the intent and, and, uh, I wouldn't 527 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.660 be surprised, you know, but, uh, You know, I'm a 528 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:49.299 history buff. And again, this is why I really respect 529 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:51.519 what you do, Craig, because you do. As I said 530 00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:53.759 at the beginning, and I mean it, you find these 531 00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.880 amazing little avenues of comics that, you know, have gone 532 00:27:59.150 --> 00:28:02.509 unnoticed for decades. And I'm glad you're finding these things. 533 00:28:02.690 --> 00:28:06.569 So how difficult, I mean, you know, did you want 534 00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:09.109 to do the book and then started searching? Or did 535 00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:11.950 you come across one or two books and thought maybe 536 00:28:11.970 --> 00:28:14.730 there's more out there? What was the inspiration for this? 537 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:20.279 I've always loved giveaway comic books. Talk about an unknown 538 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:26.519 aspect of comics history. I have a friend who was 539 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.730 helping me do a book on giveaway comics, which I'm 540 00:28:29.769 --> 00:28:33.730 still working on. He estimates there's over 25,000 of them. 541 00:28:34.450 --> 00:28:38.309 Talk about a major part of comics that nobody knows about. 542 00:28:38.349 --> 00:28:42.960 There's 25,000 plus comics no one knows about. Again, they 543 00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:45.759 are very rare. I've been working on this book for 544 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.869 10 years, but more heavily last year or so. All 545 00:28:50.900 --> 00:28:53.650 of a sudden, in trying to accumulate stuff for the book, 546 00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:57.549 I found a couple of voting comic books. In the 547 00:28:57.609 --> 00:29:00.210 last four years, I've been thinking about voting and getting 548 00:29:00.250 --> 00:29:04.460 these comics about voting. I thought, geez, we should put 549 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:06.880 out a book quick and you know, do our part 550 00:29:06.910 --> 00:29:09.339 to get out the vote. And, uh, so that's kind 551 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:11.980 of how it came to part. Uh, but I, I 552 00:29:12.019 --> 00:29:15.319 kept kind of kept getting a little, little thicker because 553 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.500 I kept finding new comics. Um, at the very last second, 554 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.279 I found another, uh, black, a community oriented one. Uh, 555 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.279 and it's called, uh, vote. 556 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:26.819 There he is. 557 00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:30.160 Yes, indeed. Voter man, vote man, vote man. 558 00:29:30.220 --> 00:29:30.680 Excuse me. 559 00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:36.690 And it was by a Marvel writer. And he wrote 560 00:29:36.750 --> 00:29:47.180 Sergeant Fury, Alan Kersrock. And it's the first black superhero comic, 561 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:50.859 black superhero to have his own title. Because people ascribe 562 00:29:51.259 --> 00:29:54.160 that to other people because this was unknown until I 563 00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.539 was thankfully able to dig this up. So now we've 564 00:29:57.619 --> 00:30:01.529 pinpointed that it is the first black superhero comics. So that, 565 00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:03.730 you know, I'm kind of excited about that, that it's 566 00:30:03.789 --> 00:30:07.170 included in the book. So what do you think, Emil? 567 00:30:07.609 --> 00:30:08.670 Yeah, I was going to ask, please. 568 00:30:10.950 --> 00:30:14.619 Emil, you're there, right? Wake up, Emil. We're boring you 569 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.960 to death. No, no, no. 570 00:30:17.019

--> 00:30:17.579 No, we weren't. 571 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:24.440 What, honestly, what attracted you to get involved? And really, 572 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:29.569 I mean, are you an old school? I mean, how 573 00:30:29.589 --> 00:30:33.130 far back and what areas of comic history interest you? 574 00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:38.710 Well, really, I'm catching up because there are a lot 575 00:30:38.750 --> 00:30:41.009 of things I don't know about. I liked Spider-Man an 576 00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:41.569 awful lot. 577 00:30:42.250 --> 00:30:42.410 Cool. 578 00:30:42.450 --> 00:30:45.769 And I was a kid, was a big fan of Batman. 579 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:50.210 But I really– there's so much more that I never 580 00:30:50.250 --> 00:30:53.430 knew about. So I had a friend of mine whose 581 00:30:53.490 --> 00:30:59.029 name is Casey who runs the Olympia– he runs a 582 00:30:59.109 --> 00:31:01.769 comic shop in Olympia. You know, he's one of the 583 00:31:01.809 --> 00:31:07.069 organizers for the Olympia Comic Con. And he sent me 584 00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:12.599 three amazing books, and I'm going to look at them 585 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:17.529 right now. They're right here because I occasionally– I don't know. 586 00:31:17.549 --> 00:31:21.130 Let's see. I've got one right here. I'm finding them wonderful. 587 00:31:21.289 --> 00:31:24.069 I've got Ecstatics right here. 588 00:31:24.089 --> 00:31:25.269 Nice. Whoa. 589 00:31:25.309 --> 00:31:27.470 That I am reading. Yeah. 590 00:31:28.309 --> 00:31:29.519 And I'm loving it. 591 00:31:29.690 --> 00:31:33.730 You know, I'm loving Dead Girl just an awful lot. 592 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:33.910 Sure. 593 00:31:36.380 --> 00:31:40.380 So, yeah, no, I'm totally into it. But, you know, 594 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.950 I had years where I wasn't really doing that. And 595 00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:48.740 I can't see you guys anymore. So it's a little weird. 596 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:50.880 We had you solo there with the books. But yeah, 597 00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:51.819 I was just letting you talk. 598 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:52.579 That's all right. 599 00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:53.759 We didn't leave you. 600 00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:54.200 Don't worry. 601 00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:58.779 Another couple after I finish this one. And it's almost 602 00:31:59.380 --> 00:32:02.160 like what you were saying, Craig, where it's almost like 603 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:05.740 I found money in a jacket pocket. Do you know 604 00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.039 what I mean? Like a lot of money, like $ 1, 000. 605 00:32:07.900 --> 00:32:11.500 Imagine that. Because there are all kinds of amazing things 606 00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:15.009 I've never read. And it's just like, I have regressed. 607 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:18.470 I am now 12, and I'm just enjoying the hell 608 00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:24.190 out of it during quarantine. I eat really stupid food. 609 00:32:24.329 --> 00:32:28.289 I eat spoonfuls of peanut butter. Really, it is like 610 00:32:28.339 --> 00:32:28.650 I am 12. 611 00:32:28.650 --> 00:32:29.670 And read comics. 612 00:32:29.859 --> 00:32:30.299 I love it. 613 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:31.119 You are 12. 614 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:38.440 I'm so happy. There's some online counseling that you could 615 00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:40.319 get too. 616 00:32:40.339 --> 00:32:41.799 No, no. 617 00:32:41.900 --> 00:32:43.660 I don't think she's alone in that matter. 618 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:44.700 I was going to. 619 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.180 Say, you know, the numbers have come out and truly 620 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.089 sales are up because everyone is doing that. And of 621 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.309 course they are. I mean, it's like, sadly, it's like 622 00:32:53.349 --> 00:32:54.400 a perpetual raining. 623 00:32:54.730 --> 00:32:56.029 With peanut butter or book? 624 00:32:56.990 --> 00:33:00.670 I think probably both, but obviously with comics, because it's 625 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:05.029 a perpetual rainy day. We have to stay inside. And so, 626 00:33:05.349 --> 00:33:09.609 you know, yeah, no, I'm reading more than I ever have. 627 00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:12.430 And I'm buying more than I ever have. And that's good. 628 00:33:12.470 --> 00:33:16.109 And I certainly hope that's helping the shops and the publishers. 629 00:33:16.150 --> 00:33:16.750 And your books. 630 00:33:17.349 --> 00:33:18.349 And certainly your books. 631 00:33:18.450 --> 00:33:19.250 Absolutely, man. 632 00:33:19.549 --> 00:33:22.619 You know, someone asked earlier, and here we go. So 633 00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:24.920 where can we get our hands on this, Greg? 634 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.900 Oh, there's a couple good places. Amazon, in their wisdom, 635 00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:32.440 are going to have it like two or three weeks 636 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:37.140 after the election. But if you want one right away, 637 00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:42.000 I would suggest you go to my co-publishers, Clover Press, 638 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.789 to find people there. Ted and Robbie at Clover Press. 639 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.269 They used to be the founders and heads of IDW, 640 00:33:50.289 --> 00:33:53.890 and now they've started a wonderful small press called Clover Press. 641 00:33:53.910 --> 00:33:59.680 And if you go to cloverpress.us, it's available there. And 642 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:03.210 if you're a customer of the esteemed and wonderful person 643 00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:07.269 Bud Plant and his Bud Plant books, he's featuring it 644 00:34:07.950 --> 00:34:12.190 right now. And it's only like $ 12. 645 00:34:10.070 --> 00:34:11.130 99. 646 00:34:11.130 --> 00:34:15.679 And if you contact either one of those fine establishments 647 00:34:15.980 --> 00:34:18.760 right away, they'll get you one before the election. So 648 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:21.679 you can have something to read while you're standing in line. 649 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.860 You want me to include

Bud Plant comics there then 650 00:34:24.929 --> 00:34:26.619 on that scroll that I'm running right now? 651 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:29.530 Oh, I'm sure Bud would appreciate it. Sure. That would 652 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:34.829 be a splendid idea. And then CloverPress.us too. Yep. If 653 00:34:34.869 --> 00:34:37.730 we could go back a second, I want people to 654 00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:40.769 look at, especially when we're talking about maybe buying the book, 655 00:34:41.070 --> 00:34:43.150 I want them to look at Sanford's great cover again. 656 00:34:43.329 --> 00:34:43.909 One second. 657 00:34:44.369 --> 00:34:44.849 One second. 658 00:34:44.869 --> 00:34:47.769 There we go. Oh, you can zoom in on these? 659 00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:50.469 There's the crawl so people know where to buy the book. 660 00:34:50.789 --> 00:34:55.889 Oh, perfect. There you go. But this character that Sanford 661 00:34:56.030 --> 00:35:02.719 drew is called General Election. And I have to credit 662 00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:05.840 my partner at Yale Books and my wife, Cleetza Gussoni, 663 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:07.239 for coming up with the name. I think it's a 664 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:11.059 great name. It's a play, of course, on Captain America. 665 00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:16.800 But General is even higher up, and it's General Election. Genius. 666 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:17.179 Genius. 667 00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:20.860 Yeah, but the real genius that put it across was 668 00:35:20.889 --> 00:35:22.409 Sanford's artwork, of course. 669 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:23.039 Oh, yeah. 670 00:35:23.059 --> 00:35:25.619 Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, 671 00:35:25.820 --> 00:35:28.280 how you, you know, what all you did when you 672 00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:29.980 put pencil to paper? 673 00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.639 Well, it's actually digital, so not too much. 674 00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:37.480 Oh, yeah. 675 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:38.559 Spoiler. 676 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:39.920 Old school. 677 00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.699 Yeah, but I can't ask you for the original artwork 678 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:44.599 from my collection. 679 00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:47.159 Well, you know, there's ways to make it work. We 680 00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:52.739 can talk about that. Off record. But no, but I 681 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.440 wanted to do something, even though it was digital, I 682 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.420 still wanted to do a look and style with the color, 683 00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:08.360 especially that has the old, you know, four-color process feel 684 00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:16.380 with the, gosh, with the dots, you know, effect to 685 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.639 it to give it that that finish, you know, that 686 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.800 we had when we saw, you know, when we got those, 687 00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:25.780 those comics growing up and especially because of, you know, 688 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.010 these comics within the book are, you know, classic, you know, 689 00:36:30.030 --> 00:36:34.130 or rare, rare stories or rare, um, collections. And, uh, 690 00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:36.929 so yeah, I just wanted to kind of give it, um, 691 00:36:37.269 --> 00:36:40.690 a bit of that, um, nostalgic feel. Um, and I 692 00:36:40.730 --> 00:36:47.579 think the Craig had like a, um, Kind of a 693 00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:48.679 preliminary sketch. 694 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:55.690 Yeah, a bad start that Sanford saved me from. 695 00:36:55.710 --> 00:37:01.949 He showed me the idea, and I just tried to 696 00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:06.809 make it work for what we see here now. Yeah, 697 00:37:06.889 --> 00:37:08.329 it was a lot of fun. It was fun. 698 00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:10.550 This is the original sketch, I think. 699 00:37:10.989 --> 00:37:12.449 Yeah, you put it in the book. There you go. 700 00:37:12.469 --> 00:37:12.869 Yeah, yeah. 701 00:37:13.460 --> 00:37:15.159 That's awesome. 702 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:16.619 It's awesome in a bad way. 703 00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.349 No, I understand. 704 00:37:19.369 --> 00:37:23.590 I'm no Sanford or Emile. 705 00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:26.909 No, but it's a good guide. I heard Emile asking, 706 00:37:27.489 --> 00:37:29.469 are you making a poster of it? And I think 707 00:37:29.510 --> 00:37:31.110 that's a tremendous idea. 708 00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:35.300 Well, I think we did a Kickstarter, but did we 709 00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:38.320 do a poster of that, of general election Sanford? I 710 00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:39.320 don't know. I don't think we did. 711 00:37:40.329 --> 00:37:42.710 I gave it to you and that was it. 712 00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:49.500 Yeah. But if John Feelings based his character on Adam 713 00:37:49.539 --> 00:37:52.940 Clayton Powell, did you base General Election on any... Is 714 00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:55.500 that your mom or your wife or your sister or 715 00:37:56.019 --> 00:37:56.639 somebody you know? 716 00:37:56.659 --> 00:37:58.559 I just took what you did and just kind of 717 00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:01.260 modified it in what I thought it would be. 718 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.719 Well, it doesn't look anything like my mom or my sister. 719 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.340 Emile was trying to say something. What were you going 720 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:06.880 to ask, Emile? 721 00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.900 I was going to say, you know, I know... I know, Craig, 722 00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:12.079 that it's probably a bit of a disappointment. This is 723 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:16.559 speaking to something that both you and Sanford said. For 724 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:20.119 one thing, you said, Craig, that it's not coming out, 725 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.889 you know, due to the wisdom you said of Amazon, 726 00:38:22.929 --> 00:38:25.570 it's not coming out until a couple weeks after the election. 727 00:38:26.210 --> 00:38:30.030 And Sanford, you said something really interesting about how, you know, 728

00:38:30.250 --> 00:38:35.179 how relevant everything is to right now. And I think 729 00:38:35.469 --> 00:38:37.829 one of the things reading the book that came to 730 00:38:37.889 --> 00:38:42.110 me is this book is evergreen. It's going to be evergreen. 731 00:38:42.289 --> 00:38:44.670 It's going to be because we have changed as a country, 732 00:38:45.309 --> 00:38:47.570 and this is going to be something that young people 733 00:38:47.969 --> 00:38:51.090 have in schools. This is going to be something that 734 00:38:51.309 --> 00:38:53.610 parents get for their kids. This is going to be 735 00:38:53.650 --> 00:38:57.050 something that people give to an 18-year-old on their 18th 736 00:38:57.130 --> 00:39:01.630 birthday or even before. But this is– we've changed. I mean, 737 00:39:01.650 --> 00:39:04.920 I think as a nation– You're looking at the numbers 738 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.920 of people voting right now and the reality. And what 739 00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:09.719 I wanted to say to both of you in regards 740 00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:12.119 to this is something that occurred to me that I 741 00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:17.849 hadn't realized before. And that is that we will always, 742 00:39:17.989 --> 00:39:21.670 and I think Sanford, you said something like that we 743 00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:23.449 haven't dealt with this yet. You know, this is an 744 00:39:23.550 --> 00:39:25.409 issue that we haven't dealt with. And I think that 745 00:39:25.449 --> 00:39:29.429 is so true. And I think the issue is vigilance. 746 00:39:29.980 --> 00:39:31.239 What we're realizing. 747 00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:32.699 That's a good word. 748 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.619 Right. We have to change. And vigilance is such a 749 00:39:35.659 --> 00:39:40.119 great comic book name. I mean, it is exactly. We 750 00:39:40.179 --> 00:39:44.119 would understand this need to change our minds because we 751 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.820 understand what vigilance is. I mean, there is always vigilance. 752 00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:48.710 The group of. 753 00:39:48.699 --> 00:39:51.849 People that are trying to subvert the will of the nation, 754 00:39:52.170 --> 00:39:59.230 that are trying to capitalize on our inaction. And this 755 00:39:59.610 --> 00:40:04.730 is such an amazingly wonderful moment in that way. And 756 00:40:04.750 --> 00:40:07.489 that's why I really love the inauguration of this book. 757 00:40:07.989 --> 00:40:09.960 I love the team that came together to bring it. 758 00:40:11.550 --> 00:40:13.909 And I love the concept that we're changing our minds, 759 00:40:14.469 --> 00:40:17.780 that we're becoming vigilant beings. We realize, and I mean 760 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.900 it's so clear in those great comics, that in order 761 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:25.019 to maintain a democracy, it requires maintenance. It's not something 762 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.239 that you put in action and it will just like 763 00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:31.920 a machine keep going. It requires maintenance, constant maintenance. And 764 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:35.780 this is exciting, you know, to talk about and to say, okay, 765 00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:36.300 I'm in. 766 00:40:36.579 --> 00:40:36.900 I'm in. 767 00:40:37.539 --> 00:40:39.320 What can I do? What can I do to make 768 00:40:39.380 --> 00:40:42.690 sure that happens? And I feel more and more that 769 00:40:42.869 --> 00:40:46.170 almost everyone I know is asking, what can I do? 770 00:40:47.019 --> 00:40:48.820 I do. 771 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:55.519 And they're not feeling constrained by what their life is. 772 00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:58.019 They're knowing that they have to set aside time for 773 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.900 this because it matters. And so this threat to our 774 00:41:00.940 --> 00:41:07.179 freedom that we have experienced now in this country, I 775 00:41:07.219 --> 00:41:08.639 think it's the best thing that could have happened to 776 00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:11.380 us in a way. As horrible as it is. And 777 00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:12.019 in so many ways. 778 00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:13.159 You know, I. 779 00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:20.070 Emil, you mentioned the Luca Comic Convention, I think, earlier. 780 00:41:20.090 --> 00:41:23.429 I met my wife at the Luca Comic Convention. I 781 00:41:24.050 --> 00:41:27.949 had brought out a book about Mickey Mouse, and they 782 00:41:28.210 --> 00:41:30.969 invited me over to put on an exhibit over at 783 00:41:30.989 --> 00:41:34.969 the beautiful Luca Comic Convention in Italy. And my wife 784 00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:38.480 was mounting the art show, and that's how I met her. 785 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:44.710 But when she first came here, And, you know, because 786 00:41:44.730 --> 00:41:46.070 I only knew her for a few days and I 787 00:41:46.070 --> 00:41:47.809 invited her, hey, you want to come live with me 788 00:41:47.829 --> 00:41:52.389 in the United States? So she came and I, besides 789 00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:55.679 falling deeply in love with her, I learned something new 790 00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:58.300 about her and about Europeans when I got to know her, 791 00:41:58.340 --> 00:42:02.219 that they are passionate about politics. This is it. 792 00:42:02.539 --> 00:42:03.099 Absolutely. 793 00:42:03.739 --> 00:42:07.250 And when I, you know, when I met her, and 794 00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:11.349 this is, you know, a few decades ago now, People 795 00:42:11.389 --> 00:42:15.010 in America didn't talk about politics. Can you imagine? Some 796 00:42:15.030 --> 00:42:18.650 people listening to me now won't even believe that. But 797 00:42:18.889 --> 00:42:22.190 you might remember, if you're old enough, listeners, that there 798 00:42:22.230 --> 00:42:24.929 was a time when we didn't talk about politics in America. 799 00:42:25.030 --> 00:42:25.889 It was impolite. 800 00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:26.719 Impolite. 801 00:42:26.780 --> 00:42:28.800 And it was just something you kind of did that

802 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.860 was in the background. And I remember as a little kid, 803 00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:33.840 my parents, they were going to have a party, which 804 00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:35.880 was a rare thing in the old household. But they said, 805 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:38.280 I go, what happens at a party? They go, well, 806 00:42:38.380 --> 00:42:42.860 one thing, don't talk about politics or religion. And not 807 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:46.260 that when I was five or six, how old I 808 00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:47.679 was when I asked that question, that I was going 809 00:42:47.860 --> 00:42:51.309 to even be awake by the time the guests arrived 810 00:42:51.369 --> 00:42:53.269 or something. But they were just kind of telling me 811 00:42:53.889 --> 00:42:56.829 what you did and didn't do at a party. But 812 00:42:56.849 --> 00:42:59.530 back then, you didn't talk about politics or religion. Can 813 00:42:59.570 --> 00:43:04.090 you imagine that today? You know, it's the opposite. In Europe, 814 00:43:04.150 --> 00:43:08.349 it was the opposite. People in Europe were passionate and 815 00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:13.829 talk– over, you know, their, their, their spaghetti or their, 816 00:43:14.030 --> 00:43:17.889 or their Greek food or their tea or their tea 817 00:43:17.909 --> 00:43:21.539 or whatever about politics. But we, we kept mum about it. 818 00:43:22.070 --> 00:43:25.469 But now, like you said, Emil, you know, even if 819 00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:28.679 maybe even if this election doesn't go like some of 820 00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:32.579 us feel it should, I think, I think people are 821 00:43:32.659 --> 00:43:36.139 now involved and they are energized and they realize they're involved, 822 00:43:36.219 --> 00:43:39.159 how important their involvement is, you know, and it's, and, 823 00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:43.130 And the most democratic and the most effective thing you 824 00:43:43.150 --> 00:43:46.969 can do right now is to vote. 825 00:43:47.610 --> 00:43:51.070 Right. 826 00:43:51.389 --> 00:43:56.590 I believe in marching and writing your congresspersons and whatever 827 00:43:56.650 --> 00:44:01.489 else you can do too. But it all centers ultimately 828 00:44:01.590 --> 00:44:04.409 on voting. That's the most important thing we can do. 829 00:44:04.429 --> 00:44:08.489 Voting is our superpower. That's a good idea for a book. Yeah. 830 00:44:09.739 --> 00:44:13.300 But, you know, I think just to segue what you 831 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:17.769 just shared, I'm seeing this in real time. About an 832 00:44:17.829 --> 00:44:23.929 hour ago, I was at, we have a young Black 833 00:44:23.949 --> 00:44:26.650 guy here in South Carolina by the name of Jamie Harrison, 834 00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:32.050 who is becoming like a national star. And it's amazing 835 00:44:32.170 --> 00:44:38.590 to see, to Emil's point, people feel energized. They feel like, 836 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:46.199 instead of just protesting or, or maybe even kind of silence, 837 00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:49.460 you know, being, being a silent voter, if you will, 838 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.199 people are actually out and they're being visible and they're 839 00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:56.199 showing their, you know, for lack of better words, their colors, 840 00:44:56.340 --> 00:44:59.920 if you will. Um, and I, I decided to go, 841 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.519 go to this partly because I wanted to do something. 842 00:45:03.579 --> 00:45:08.440 I felt like, okay, my first level of duty is, 843 00:45:09.150 --> 00:45:11.329 in my opinion, was being a part of a project 844 00:45:11.369 --> 00:45:16.789 like this, right? Getting people engaged, having, and starting those conversations. Okay, 845 00:45:16.909 --> 00:45:19.679 why is voting your superpower? How can you make it 846 00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:24.559 your superpower? Those kinds of things. And I learned something 847 00:45:24.619 --> 00:45:27.619 about myself, a lot of what Emil just shared about 848 00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:31.099 how I've been kind of on the sidelines. I've been 849 00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:38.010 rooting in, you know, grimacing at everything that took place 850 00:45:38.070 --> 00:45:40.659 and i will and i always vote but there's still 851 00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:44.280 there was something that was missing i just didn't go 852 00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:48.360 there kind of like what you know uh uh craig 853 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.579 said about just how you just don't talk about it 854 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:54.639 i'm in the south and it is very much a 855 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:59.760 taboo subject until recently and i went to this uh 856 00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:02.820 you know i went out to this um this car 857 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.059 rally if you will it had to have been a 858 00:46:05.139 --> 00:46:09.840 thousand cars out there, at least, at least. I posted 859 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:13.539 a video of it saying, this is different. This is 860 00:46:13.659 --> 00:46:19.210 not four years ago, even. This is something totally different. And, 861 00:46:20.230 --> 00:46:22.150 you know, that's something that we can take, you know, 862 00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:28.530 taking encouragement from. It's seeing people are invested, you know, 863 00:46:28.690 --> 00:46:32.320 in it now, instead of just their civic duty or 864 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:37.800 whatever you want to call it. they're putting a lot 865 00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:43.340 of their interest on the line. And that's pretty, it's 866 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:47.119 scary in some ways because, you know, I think that's 867 00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:49.599 part of, to your point, Craig, I think that's why 868 00:46:49.659 --> 00:46:55.000 people didn't talk politics or religion or whatever, because they're 869 00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:58.260 protective and they don't want to offend someone or hurt 870 00:46:58.300 --> 00:47:00.320 someone's feelings or get their people hurt.

871 00:47:00.340 --> 00:47:04.789 There was good reasons in some ways, but now We've 872 00:47:04.809 --> 00:47:06.369 got good reasons to speak up. 873 00:47:07.130 --> 00:47:09.130 I think it depends. I think it depends on what 874 00:47:09.389 --> 00:47:11.590 literally when we talk about the United States, what part 875 00:47:11.610 --> 00:47:14.210 of the country you're in. Because, yeah, I mean, being 876 00:47:14.250 --> 00:47:17.670 in Chicago, I think it was just, well, we want 877 00:47:17.690 --> 00:47:21.429 to be polite. And also, well, who am I kidding? 878 00:47:21.449 --> 00:47:25.030 I was going to say that maybe even though Democrats 879 00:47:25.090 --> 00:47:28.969 and Republicans may disagree how to get there, the goal 880 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.599 at least seemed to used to be to provide for 881 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.650 the common good. And now it is so much more 882 00:47:36.869 --> 00:47:42.489 obviously voter suppression. And again, depending on where you were 883 00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:44.210 in the country, and especially in the South, it was 884 00:47:44.309 --> 00:47:46.900 always there. And it's something that they don't, and man, 885 00:47:47.050 --> 00:47:47.829 I'll tell you. 886 00:47:48.050 --> 00:47:51.570 And if I could say this, depending on the color 887 00:47:51.590 --> 00:47:52.409 of your skin too. 888 00:47:52.530 --> 00:47:54.369 Of course. Well, and that's what I was going to say. 889 00:47:54.389 --> 00:47:57.730 I had the pleasure of interviewing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar a couple 890 00:47:57.750 --> 00:48:01.820 of years ago, and it was during the Trump administration. And, 891 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.090 you know, he's been writing these incredible essays for The 892 00:48:05.110 --> 00:48:08.909 Hollywood Reporter just about society. And there's a guy that 893 00:48:08.949 --> 00:48:11.469 was on the front lines of the civil rights movement, 894 00:48:11.630 --> 00:48:14.989 even as a kid, you know, as a college basketball player, 895 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:17.829 standing with Ali and Jim Brown and all these important 896 00:48:17.889 --> 00:48:21.750 athletes that were saying enough. And it's so sad that 897 00:48:21.750 --> 00:48:25.449 50 years later, we're still dealing with the same shit. 898 00:48:25.739 --> 00:48:29.219 And I said, thank God you're out there, man, because... 899 00:48:29.610 --> 00:48:35.150 Few people have that perspective and can really be eloquent 900 00:48:35.190 --> 00:48:38.130 in their words. And I really, I admire the hell 901 00:48:38.170 --> 00:48:40.349 out of the guy because he truly is a Renaissance 902 00:48:40.409 --> 00:48:44.590 man beyond his athletics. He's such a great writer and 903 00:48:44.670 --> 00:48:49.550 a terrific motivator in terms of the changes that are necessary. 904 00:48:49.630 --> 00:48:53.289 And then, yeah, I mean, so it is. And really, again, Craig, 905 00:48:53.329 --> 00:48:56.989 in the book, you've got examples of Jim Crow

political 906 00:48:57.219 --> 00:49:00.699 ads and That were speaking out against voter suppression and, 907 00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:05.599 I mean, even– and then, God, incredibly golden age. And 908 00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.559 it's interesting that it came from him, Windsor McKay, even 909 00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:14.170 doing some political– or at least positive voting cartooning. 910 00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:18.679 Right, right, right, right. So, well, yeah, there, there's her block, 911 00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:21.659 which was, who was, who was a cartoonist who was always, 912 00:49:21.739 --> 00:49:26.400 you know, on the front lines, uh, for political righteousness. And, uh, 913 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:31.090 and then one of my favorite, uh, Chicago guy, a shoemaker, uh, 914 00:49:31.889 --> 00:49:35.349 there's a great cartoon in there, but, but plant the retailer. 915 00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:37.030 He was telling me the other day, how much you 916 00:49:37.070 --> 00:49:40.050 like the shoemaker cartoon, political cartoon that's in there. And, 917 00:49:40.820 --> 00:49:43.679 He was speaking– it's a cartoon about– we'll see if 918 00:49:43.699 --> 00:49:48.800 we can find it– about the stay-at-home voter. And I 919 00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:52.159 don't know if– I think there's probably still some stay-at-home voters, 920 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.960 so maybe they'll see this cartoon. 921 00:49:55.380 --> 00:49:57.480 To what AML was saying as you're looking up, there 922 00:49:57.500 --> 00:49:57.800 you go. 923 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:00.019 Wow. Yeah. 924 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:01.429 Yeah. 925 00:50:01.570 --> 00:50:04.030 Thanks for voting for us. It's all these corrupt kind 926 00:50:04.070 --> 00:50:08.289 of guys, crooked courts. Right. I mean, is this cartoon 927 00:50:08.349 --> 00:50:09.369 out of today or what? 928 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:11.070 Easily. 929 00:50:11.090 --> 00:50:15.550 I can't even read them all. So you got these 930 00:50:15.590 --> 00:50:22.610 guys standing behind this guy that's sitting at home. He's 931 00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:26.070 a stay-at-home voter. We've got all these corrupt people that 932 00:50:26.130 --> 00:50:29.309 are really thrilled that he's just sitting at home rather 933 00:50:29.329 --> 00:50:33.030 than going to the polls. So that's Schumacher, who was 934 00:50:33.090 --> 00:50:36.110 a Pulitzer Prize-winning Chicago cartoonist. 935 00:50:36.469 --> 00:50:39.969 Absolutely. Well, to amplify what Bill was saying, Yeah, we've 936 00:50:39.989 --> 00:50:47.369 been lulled into indifference and just not participating because, well, 937 00:50:47.389 --> 00:50:50.510 what does it matter? You know, whatever. And thank God 938 00:50:50.610 --> 00:50:53.570 we've woken up in the last few years. It's like, 939 00:50:53.610 --> 00:50:55.960 wait a minute, they're playing us now. 940 00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.920 I've always been kind of interested in things like, I 941 00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:04.280 did

a book recently about the great anti-war comic books. 942 00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:08.380 I've always been interested in a broad sense in and 943 00:51:08.420 --> 00:51:11.079 being against war and for women's. 944 00:51:10.820 --> 00:51:11.320 Rights and stuff. 945 00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:15.079 But I never really felt like I wanted to soil 946 00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:19.800 myself and get involved in actual politics and in voting 947 00:51:19.940 --> 00:51:23.599 and registration and stuff like that. And so, I mean, 948 00:51:23.619 --> 00:51:26.559 I think, I think we've over the last couple of years, 949 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:29.659 just a couple of years, I've sort of grown to 950 00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:33.409 realize the importance of, you know, of doing that. And 951 00:51:33.769 --> 00:51:37.400 in Sanford, I think, If I could say this, I 952 00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:40.019 think when I first contacted you to do a cover, 953 00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:42.760 you go, oh, that's kind of an interesting idea. But 954 00:51:42.820 --> 00:51:45.340 it seems like in the year that we've been working 955 00:51:45.380 --> 00:51:49.210 on this together, I've sort of seen you get more engaged. 956 00:51:49.989 --> 00:51:55.170 And you got more excited about the book and the 957 00:51:55.570 --> 00:51:59.869 message behind it. Haven't you, just in the past year, 958 00:51:59.889 --> 00:52:02.400 it seems like you've grown about that. And I saw 959 00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:05.019 that beautiful picture of you and your son together. going 960 00:52:05.059 --> 00:52:08.579 out and voting together, Sanford. That was like touching. But 961 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:12.590 it seems like you kind of grew into this somewhat. 962 00:52:12.619 --> 00:52:22.389 I've changed. I've changed. I mean, I've changed. I've changed. 963 00:52:22.889 --> 00:52:26.670 This experience has changed me. It has changed me. I 964 00:52:27.210 --> 00:52:30.110 would say, I don't know anybody who hasn't been changed 965 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:36.199 by this. I just think I wouldn't say for me 966 00:52:36.679 --> 00:52:42.039 that I was utterly disenfranchised, but, you know, I wasn't franchised. 967 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.320 Let's say that. 968 00:52:44.860 --> 00:52:46.679 We're kind of floating out there, I think. 969 00:52:47.070 --> 00:52:51.329 Well, for the longest time, I think people thought of 970 00:52:51.449 --> 00:52:53.940 the people in power as they. Well, they're going to 971 00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:55.869 do what they want. And it's like, no, no, no. 972 00:52:56.250 --> 00:52:57.329 They represent us. 973 00:52:58.070 --> 00:52:58.909 We the people. 974 00:52:59.050 --> 00:53:01.769 And that is so important. It's basic, but you forget. 975 00:53:01.909 --> 00:53:04.170 I'm not sure they understand that. Right. 976 00:53:04.510 --> 00:53:07.050 Well, that's the thing, man. It's like, no, wait a minute. 977 00:53:07.349 --> 00:53:09.389 And we've understood that we need to hold them to that. 978 00:53:09.769 --> 00:53:09.989 Right. 979 00:53:10.070 --> 00:53:12.179 And if you're not, if they are not doing what 980 00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:14.980 we want them to do, we do have the ability 981 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:18.099 of getting rid of them. And that's what, and it really, 982 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:21.409 thank God, there's a lot of career politicians who, that 983 00:53:21.610 --> 00:53:29.190 are shitting bricks right now because their opposition has woken up. Oh, no, absolutely. Yeah, 984 00:53:29.989 --> 00:53:32.690 it's the internet. And also I come from broadcasting, so 985 00:53:32.750 --> 00:53:36.530 it is a pleasure to speak my mind. So go ahead, Sanford. 986 00:53:36.550 --> 00:53:37.090 Excuse me. 987 00:53:37.699 --> 00:53:42.340 I do think that there's an X factor. And the 988 00:53:42.500 --> 00:53:47.139 X factor is COVID. I think COVID slowed everything down. 989 00:53:47.619 --> 00:53:47.780 Yep. 990 00:53:48.050 --> 00:53:51.030 Everybody had a time to be introspective and start looking 991 00:53:51.070 --> 00:53:55.099 at themselves. We seen it in the, you know, the racial, 992 00:53:55.340 --> 00:53:59.199 you know, tension and unrest. We saw that. 993 00:53:59.320 --> 00:53:59.519 Right. 994 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:02.320 And then we saw how people poured out. When I 995 00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:07.079 saw that, the thing I thought was, this is going 996 00:54:07.099 --> 00:54:11.539 to be a different election. And, and, and COVID was 997 00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:13.320 the catalyst to that. 998 00:54:13.429 --> 00:54:13.679 Right. 999 00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:16.750 Cause this stuff has always happened. Everything you just, you 1000 00:54:16.769 --> 00:54:20.909 guys just said is like, We don't pay attention to 1001 00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:25.980 the whole fact that they work for us. Because we 1002 00:54:26.019 --> 00:54:29.059 go about our lives. We got our Comic-Cons to keep 1003 00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:32.500 us busy. We got our whatever, our careers. And we 1004 00:54:32.539 --> 00:54:35.679 just live in our bubbles. And then the bubble is 1005 00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:38.429 taken away. And now we're even in more of a bubble. 1006 00:54:38.449 --> 00:54:42.250 We're in our own personal bubbles. And we have nothing 1007 00:54:42.269 --> 00:54:46.280 but time to reflect. And you see people who. 1008 00:54:48.340 --> 00:54:52.510 Are in these positions absolutely, I mean, I think even 1009 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.590 for those who are blatant, this is even more blatant 1010 00:54:56.610 --> 00:55:01.670 than ever. I think to some degree, that's why they're 1011 00:55:01.690 --> 00:55:04.369 doing it is because they know this is pretty much it. 1012 00:55:04.429 --> 00:55:07.449 It's like, we might as well throw everything at this 1013 00:55:07.510 --> 00:55:11.309 thing because we know people are starting to, you know, 1014 00:55:11.349 --> 00:55:15.500 to Emil's point, they're now engaged. They

feel it. All 1015 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:20.150 these senators are getting blitzed. from emails and phone calls and, 1016 00:55:20.750 --> 00:55:24.030 you know, you can't have an actual town hall, but 1017 00:55:24.090 --> 00:55:26.610 these they're, they're feeling it. They can't even get in 1018 00:55:26.650 --> 00:55:30.730 their offices on a day-to-day basis without someone challenging them. 1019 00:55:32.780 --> 00:55:36.760 You know, it started back. I would say even a 1020 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.280 year ago with, you know, the Supreme court justice thing 1021 00:55:40.300 --> 00:55:44.559 that started to, you know, really raise people's awareness and 1022 00:55:44.579 --> 00:55:47.980 start understanding, wait a minute, that, that doesn't, that doesn't 1023 00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:50.949 feel right. Shouldn't we have some kind of say so 1024 00:55:51.050 --> 00:55:52.909 in this as people, you know, those kinds of things. 1025 00:55:53.489 --> 00:55:57.570 And now obviously we're, we're just in, in this situation 1026 00:55:57.610 --> 00:56:01.389 where everybody has to deal with their own stuff. And 1027 00:56:02.130 --> 00:56:05.869 either you're going to, you know, just die with this 1028 00:56:06.010 --> 00:56:08.750 old way, or you're going to fight and be a 1029 00:56:08.789 --> 00:56:09.570 part of the change. 1030 00:56:11.210 --> 00:56:14.059 A good question from Carl Bakey here. Do you think 1031 00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:15.980 writers and artists who are under contract by the big 1032 00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:18.500 two DC and Marvel are are nervous about doing more 1033 00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:21.440 of our political cartoons on their own platforms. I, Gene, 1034 00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.760 just wonder. Yeah, Sanford is someone who's worked recently for Marvel. 1035 00:56:24.989 --> 00:56:25.860 You'll forgive me. 1036 00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:31.849 Yeah. I'm only laughing because I know some stuff. Anyway, 1037 00:56:32.989 --> 00:56:37.050 I do believe it is. Spill, spill. Well, I do believe, 1038 00:56:37.630 --> 00:56:45.429 truth be told, there is a lot more liberation in 1039 00:56:45.489 --> 00:56:48.639 doing it as a creator-owned Sure. 1040 00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:49.480 You know, right. 1041 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:53.199 I mean, we know that at the end of the day, 1042 00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:58.679 the big two or corporations is not just Marvel comics 1043 00:56:58.780 --> 00:57:02.389 and DC comics. It's their, the powers that be. 1044 00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:03.690 The ones that own them. 1045 00:57:03.750 --> 00:57:04.369 Yeah. 1046 00:57:04.510 --> 00:57:09.949 Disney and time era AT & T now with DC comics. Right. 1047 00:57:10.630 --> 00:57:14.710 And truth be told, there's some, there's some connections to political, uh, 1048 00:57:15.340 --> 00:57:18.579 affiliations and alignments within some of that stuff. 1049 00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:18.920 Right. 1050 00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:22.579 And so though you may be able

to make a 1051 00:57:22.659 --> 00:57:25.679 little noise, if it makes enough noise, it is going 1052 00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:31.659 to reach that hierarchy and you see what, you know, so, um, 1053 00:57:32.050 --> 00:57:35.150 and that, that doesn't mean right or left. That just 1054 00:57:35.190 --> 00:57:39.449 means there are affiliations and in either side, it's, there's 1055 00:57:39.710 --> 00:57:45.489 more stuff, you know, um, that can make it very challenging. 1056 00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:48.949 That's why doing a book like what we have here, 1057 00:57:48.989 --> 00:57:51.730 what we're talking about now, is so much more beneficial, 1058 00:57:51.769 --> 00:57:58.170 in my opinion. Truth be told, we've seen stories like 1059 00:57:58.210 --> 00:58:05.820 Captain America standing up for... We've got stories already out there. Honestly, 1060 00:58:05.929 --> 00:58:12.309 Captain America, Superman, all these characters are created from political... Depression. Yeah, 1061 00:58:12.349 --> 00:58:17.110 oppression in events, you know, in history. But I think 1062 00:58:18.429 --> 00:58:20.699 in this day and time, we need new voices because 1063 00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:23.940 they're new voices that are speaking out. And they need 1064 00:58:23.980 --> 00:58:27.460 to see someone that looks like them, not Captain America, 1065 00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:28.579 to be honest with you. 1066 00:58:28.940 --> 00:58:30.360 Well, sure. 1067 00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:36.610 Comics have always been political, you know, from the get-go. 1068 00:58:36.690 --> 00:58:38.590 I mean, Superman was an immigrant. 1069 00:58:39.110 --> 00:58:39.269 Right. 1070 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:44.260 He was fighting the Ku Klux Klan and, you know, and... 1071 00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:48.570 Captain America was punching Hitler. Yeah, like eight months before 1072 00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.230 we were in the war. 1073 00:58:49.329 --> 00:58:53.530 Absolutely, man. And Kirby and Simon paid for it, but 1074 00:58:53.590 --> 00:58:59.760 with protesters from the American Bund, the Nazi sympathizers of 1075 00:58:59.780 --> 00:59:03.539 the United States, and needed police protection when they debuted 1076 00:59:03.559 --> 00:59:05.699 Captain America. Please, Craig, I didn't mean to interrupt you. 1077 00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:09.960 No, no, but I kind of dance around what Sanford 1078 00:59:09.980 --> 00:59:16.570 was saying too. I think the corporate comics are more 1079 00:59:16.809 --> 00:59:20.829 corporate than ever. I mean, back when Superman was created, 1080 00:59:20.929 --> 00:59:25.250 it was like, you know, two, two young Jews brought 1081 00:59:25.309 --> 00:59:30.010 to like, you know, uh, uh, a group of editors 1082 00:59:30.090 --> 00:59:33.070 and publishers and printers and, uh, you know, a group 1083 00:59:33.110 --> 00:59:34.730 of eight people or something, you know, and, and it 1084 00:59:34.769 --> 00:59:38.820 wasn't like a big corporation with, with, uh, so much 1085 00:59:38.929 --> 00:59:42.500 media behind it and so much licensing and so much, 1086 00:59:44.019 --> 00:59:46.840 the money wasn't so important right now that comics were 1087 00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:50.019 the bottom rung of printing and publishing and the, and 1088 00:59:50.059 --> 00:59:53.559 the arts, you know? So, uh, It wasn't even so important. 1089 00:59:53.579 --> 00:59:55.699 Whatever the creators put in it, this is what they 1090 00:59:55.969 --> 01:00:03.969 filled up the books with. But now there is more oversight. 1091 01:00:06.829 --> 01:00:09.969 Even for this book, there was an opportunity to use 1092 01:00:10.030 --> 01:00:14.099 some– I mean all the comics in this here, it 1093 01:00:14.139 --> 01:00:17.239 wouldn't have worked out anyway because all the comics in 1094 01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:21.769 here are specifically about voting. And there's eight of them 1095 01:00:21.809 --> 01:00:24.110 and they're all great and they're all fascinating in their 1096 01:00:24.150 --> 01:00:28.289 own way. But there's also some stories from the golden 1097 01:00:28.349 --> 01:00:31.289 age that touched on voting that I kind of thought 1098 01:00:31.409 --> 01:00:35.099 at one point to include. But the people that maybe 1099 01:00:35.260 --> 01:00:40.619 control the rights to those weren't as interested in that 1100 01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:43.940 idea as I was. Let me just put it that way. Wow. 1101 01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:48.039 That's interesting because certainly there were those– one-page public service 1102 01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:54.670 ads where a lot of Superman would address racism and inclusion, 1103 01:00:55.110 --> 01:00:57.489 even in the Golden and Silver Age. 1104 01:00:57.510 --> 01:00:59.630 I would love to do a collection of those, but again, 1105 01:00:59.670 --> 01:01:05.139 it's not always easy these days. All the material in 1106 01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:08.300 this book was public domain, and if there's ever comics 1107 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.059 that should be in the public domain, it's comics about voting. 1108 01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:12.260 You would think. 1109 01:01:12.619 --> 01:01:13.579 So that worked out good. 1110 01:01:15.579 --> 01:01:17.780 I was going to say real fast that as someone 1111 01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:21.280 who worked for CBS radio several times over my radio 1112 01:01:21.340 --> 01:01:25.900 career and in my last job with WBBM, the news 1113 01:01:25.940 --> 01:01:30.539 station here in Chicago, we had a very frank talk 1114 01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:35.130 about expressing your own personal political views. And it wasn't 1115 01:01:35.170 --> 01:01:38.510 done with any malice. It literally was the it's a 1116 01:01:38.510 --> 01:01:41.190 50 percent country and and. 1117 01:01:41.769 --> 01:01:42.130 Right. 1118 01:01:42.190 --> 01:01:44.690 I mean, ultimately, it's like we don't want to lose 1119 01:01:44.789 --> 01:01:49.119 listeners based on your political opinions. Well, even me

bringing. 1120 01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:52.239 Out this book, I'm not Warner Brothers or Disney, but 1121 01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:54.780 I thought like, gee, I'm going to bring out this book. 1122 01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:59.780 And in a way, it's nonpartisan. I don't mention any 1123 01:02:00.380 --> 01:02:04.739 particular politicians that are up for election as an example, 1124 01:02:04.820 --> 01:02:08.619 but I think people that know me and read between 1125 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.119 the lines see that I kind of lean towards certain 1126 01:02:12.219 --> 01:02:18.710 ideas and core beliefs, you know. But I thought, you know, 1127 01:02:18.889 --> 01:02:21.969 I've probably, you know, I've maybe lost, you know, and 1128 01:02:21.989 --> 01:02:26.329 we're a small operation. We can't afford to lose half 1129 01:02:26.409 --> 01:02:30.699 or even a tenth of our audience, you know. But 1130 01:02:30.739 --> 01:02:33.849 I felt like this is important. you know, this is, 1131 01:02:33.909 --> 01:02:35.800 this is something I want to say. This is, I, I, 1132 01:02:36.269 --> 01:02:37.550 I'm going to do this because I'm going to be 1133 01:02:37.630 --> 01:02:40.769 proud of it that I, you know, it may not 1134 01:02:40.829 --> 01:02:45.940 sway the election. I hope it does, but it may not, 1135 01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:49.280 but I'm proud that, you know, I, I said something and, 1136 01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.900 you know, with the help of, uh, Sanford and then 1137 01:02:53.019 --> 01:02:55.940 a meal, uh, cheering us on, on the back cover. And, and, 1138 01:02:56.019 --> 01:02:58.219 you know, I'm, I'm just proud that, you know, we're, 1139 01:02:58.300 --> 01:03:01.460 we're taking a stand and we can, uh, look ourselves 1140 01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:03.300 in the mirror and look at, you know, I can 1141 01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:06.519 look at my children and say, I tried, I tried, 1142 01:03:06.699 --> 01:03:09.199 I tried my best in my own little limited world 1143 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:09.679 and way. 1144 01:03:10.539 --> 01:03:12.639 I'm sure what we've been talking about, Emil is inspiring 1145 01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:14.980 some thoughts from you. And I feel bad that we've been, 1146 01:03:15.179 --> 01:03:17.179 you know, kind of monopolizing the last few minutes. 1147 01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:19.179 She's so smart. We do need to hear from her. 1148 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:25.530 Go ahead, Emil. What's great about Emil Sanford, you kind 1149 01:03:25.570 --> 01:03:27.929 of touched on this, but Emil, like she has. 1150 01:03:27.809 --> 01:03:29.130 Her own independent book. 1151 01:03:29.210 --> 01:03:35.179 She can say what she wants. And she's unfettered. So 1152 01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:40.300 I think she's in a great position to get ideas across. Emile, 1153 01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:41.340 talk to us about that. 1154 01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:49.710 Well, I will say that I had an instance where 1155 01:03:49.829 --> 01:03:54.449 a very beloved person in my life was living in 1156 01:03:54.610 --> 01:04:05.559 extremely close proximity to some very... radicalized people in Washington state. 1157 01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:09.440 And I did not feel free during that time to 1158 01:04:09.500 --> 01:04:11.800 do a lot of things that I would have otherwise done. 1159 01:04:13.909 --> 01:04:20.110 Because I knew that she had been very involved in 1160 01:04:20.170 --> 01:04:26.889 some anti-racism and had been, had a profile in that world. 1161 01:04:27.889 --> 01:04:31.539 And I was concerned because about what I mean, I 1162 01:04:31.579 --> 01:04:34.469 had to really face that. I had to face that 1163 01:04:34.530 --> 01:04:39.750 because the episodes of terrorism in our country have been 1164 01:04:40.030 --> 01:04:43.510 by white supremacists. I mean, let's just face that. That 1165 01:04:43.550 --> 01:04:47.179 has happened. So and I mean, you know, it goes, 1166 01:04:47.219 --> 01:04:52.099 of course, deeper into our history. But what I've been 1167 01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:55.820 thinking about a lot is, you know, I've been watching 1168 01:04:55.860 --> 01:05:01.219 Lovecraft Country. I've been watched Watchmen. And I'm reading Lovecraft 1169 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:06.730 Country now, or actually I finished it. But what I've 1170 01:05:06.750 --> 01:05:09.690 been thinking about is the way we're haunted by our history. 1171 01:05:10.369 --> 01:05:15.139 And I think that this is what we understand to 1172 01:05:15.179 --> 01:05:18.400 be the truth. And it's something that I think we 1173 01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:23.099 realize we have to deal with. I had an episode 1174 01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:27.739 in Quebec where I took a residency and it was haunted. 1175 01:05:28.050 --> 01:05:31.510 It was straight up haunted. I experienced a real ghost. 1176 01:05:33.489 --> 01:05:37.849 Nothing like that has ever happened in my life. I 1177 01:05:37.889 --> 01:05:40.769 was informed after I got there that the person that 1178 01:05:40.949 --> 01:05:44.369 took the residency before me left in tears in the 1179 01:05:44.409 --> 01:05:46.210 middle of the night, swearing they'd never go back. 1180 01:05:46.250 --> 01:05:46.570 Oh, my gosh. 1181 01:05:46.809 --> 01:05:46.989 Wow. 1182 01:05:47.030 --> 01:05:52.230 Yeah, because it was, you know, did you ever see 1183 01:05:52.250 --> 01:05:55.869 the movie Paranormal Activity? 1184 01:05:55.889 --> 01:05:57.409 I remember that movie. 1185 01:05:57.969 --> 01:05:58.250 Okay. 1186 01:05:58.590 --> 01:06:01.630 Where, I mean, just like things. Oh yeah. I mean, like, 1187 01:06:02.090 --> 01:06:04.210 you know, you know, you didn't put a pair on 1188 01:06:04.250 --> 01:06:07.610 a table. Like, you know, you didn't do that. Like, 1189 01:06:07.650 --> 01:06:08.789 you know, you didn't do that. 1190 01:06:09.230 --> 01:06:10.309 Wow. Yeah. 1191 01:06:10.429 --> 01:06:17.519 Wow. And so, yeah. But I'm, you know, what I'm 1192 01:06:17.579 --> 01:06:20.719

telling you is that I think ghosts are really a 1193 01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:23.099 part of our lives. I think we're dealing with a 1194 01:06:23.139 --> 01:06:26.659 past that we think is gone because we don't see it. 1195 01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:29.349 But there's every chance in the world that it's really here. 1196 01:06:30.050 --> 01:06:30.769 And I. 1197 01:06:32.510 --> 01:06:33.269 Think we all. 1198 01:06:33.190 --> 01:06:36.250 Have a baseline of goodness, even the worst among us. 1199 01:06:37.090 --> 01:06:40.650 And we know when what we are does not resonate 1200 01:06:40.710 --> 01:06:46.219 with that goodness. And we know when what we do 1201 01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:49.820 in our lives, and I'm no different. I'm flawed. I'm 1202 01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:53.900 utterly flawed. I think we know when there is no 1203 01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:57.070 parallel between us or those two things can't hold hands, 1204 01:06:57.610 --> 01:07:00.809 you know, what we are and, and, and what, what 1205 01:07:00.849 --> 01:07:02.829 we do. And I think there are a lot of 1206 01:07:02.869 --> 01:07:05.690 people in the country right now who are experiencing dissonance 1207 01:07:06.510 --> 01:07:10.579 and they're applying a certain kind of numbing quality to 1208 01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:13.900 the dissonance in their souls. They know that there's something wrong, 1209 01:07:15.219 --> 01:07:18.599 but they aren't identifying it correctly. And I think it's 1210 01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:21.119 really interesting because we constantly go back to this idea 1211 01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:24.780 of the corporation and, you know, I say this in 1212 01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:30.269 public speaking an awful lot. If you're being told that 1213 01:07:30.789 --> 01:07:33.929 this is a lateral problem, that you can look across 1214 01:07:34.030 --> 01:07:37.719 the way laterally and you can see the problem over here, 1215 01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:40.619 it's this person who came to your country without papers. 1216 01:07:40.980 --> 01:07:44.039 It's this person who you identify as the other for 1217 01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:48.389 whatever that means to you. They're lesbian, they're gay, they're trans. 1218 01:07:50.349 --> 01:07:53.510 They're different color than you, whatever that their culture is 1219 01:07:53.530 --> 01:07:57.840 different than yours, their religion. That's a lie. I mean, 1220 01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:00.860 it's always those people who are being told look laterally. 1221 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:04.480 It's always the question to them is, have you looked up? 1222 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.719 Because the people who are teaching you this are right 1223 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.760 above you. And they don't want you to look up 1224 01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:16.390 and go, oh, wait, in Norway, a person who works 1225 01:08:16.449 --> 01:08:19.729 at McDonald's gets $ 20 an hour and I get eight. 1226 01:08:20.340 --> 01:08:23.720 And I can barely live on that. Like, they don't 1227 01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:26.960 want you to know that, you know, in another country, 1228 01:08:27.340 --> 01:08:31.000 even just north of here, people don't die of COVID 1229 01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:34.819 because they're afraid to go in to get medical care. 1230 01:08:34.979 --> 01:08:42.350 And we've just recently, Brodner, Simon Brodner? Steve Brodner. Steve 1231 01:08:42.399 --> 01:08:45.359 Brodner is a brilliant cartoonist, and he just did a 1232 01:08:45.939 --> 01:08:50.699 piece about a woman whose husband just died because none 1233 01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:54.170 of the medical staff, it was in Kentucky, nobody told 1234 01:08:54.229 --> 01:08:57.189 him that he could receive free treatment for COVID. He 1235 01:08:57.229 --> 01:09:00.779 went in three times in the emergency room. and he 1236 01:09:00.859 --> 01:09:05.300 ended up suffocating to death. And that didn't have to happen. 1237 01:09:06.020 --> 01:09:08.039 He should have received medical care, but you know what? 1238 01:09:08.420 --> 01:09:11.729 He was afraid. He was a strong man. He was 1239 01:09:11.789 --> 01:09:14.369 between jobs and he was afraid that if he got 1240 01:09:14.430 --> 01:09:16.069 this bill, it would hurt his family. 1241 01:09:17.380 --> 01:09:20.000 I think you're touching on, too, people are afraid to 1242 01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:23.319 go in and be treated for COVID because then maybe 1243 01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:27.590 next year they can't get treatment for something else because 1244 01:09:27.609 --> 01:09:29.229 they have a pre-existing condition. 1245 01:09:29.470 --> 01:09:30.289 Exactly. 1246 01:09:30.770 --> 01:09:37.680 And, you know, $ 400 billion are spent on our military. 1247 01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:41.199 That's their budget per year. And we don't have universal 1248 01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:44.720 health care in this country. I mean, there's something wrong 1249 01:09:44.739 --> 01:09:45.039 with that. 1250 01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:48.699 Well, clearly there's a massive economic problem, and the last 1251 01:09:48.739 --> 01:09:51.529 time there was a massive economic problem this big, the 1252 01:09:51.569 --> 01:09:55.859 government responded with the public works programs of the 30s. 1253 01:09:56.470 --> 01:10:00.550 And you say that now, and oh, that's socialism. Socialism 1254 01:10:00.609 --> 01:10:05.670 sounds like communism. And it's just, without really understanding that 1255 01:10:06.149 --> 01:10:10.789 it's in the Constitution, promote the general welfare system. and 1256 01:10:10.810 --> 01:10:13.989 secure the blessings of liberty. And it's like, that's your job. 1257 01:10:14.489 --> 01:10:18.789 That's right there. And again, we forget. And I go 1258 01:10:18.810 --> 01:10:20.890 back to that idea of, well, they're going to do 1259 01:10:20.909 --> 01:10:23.390 what they want, so my vote doesn't matter. And it's like, no, 1260 01:10:23.430 --> 01:10:26.729 it does. And you have the power to change things 1261

01:10:27.020 --> 01:10:28.899 because this has to happen. Sanford, go ahead. It looked 1262 01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:30.880 like you were going to say something. 1263 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:34.539 Yeah, I think, you know, in real time, as we're 1264 01:10:34.579 --> 01:10:39.659 having this very conversation, everything you guys are saying, what 1265 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:44.800 are they doing? They're shoehorning in, you know, something that 1266 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:52.039 clearly should be left to the people. Even besides that, 1267 01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:56.060 I guess, if you're able to do that, why can't 1268 01:10:56.140 --> 01:11:00.319 you give or pass some type of legislation or bill 1269 01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:05.899 to help with the conditions because of what's happening in 1270 01:11:05.939 --> 01:11:14.520 real time? Hospitalizations or skyrocketing as we speak. I'm pretty 1271 01:11:14.539 --> 01:11:18.699 sure we've all known someone who's had COVID or we 1272 01:11:18.739 --> 01:11:23.140 had it ourselves. Even worse, I've known a guy that 1273 01:11:23.199 --> 01:11:30.600 passed away from it already. And it's like, as sad 1274 01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.140 as that is, going back to some of the points 1275 01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:37.270 you guys were making earlier, because of this type of thing, 1276 01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:41.029 this thing is affecting people personally now. This is not 1277 01:11:41.090 --> 01:11:46.020 just them passing legislation that kind of is behind closed 1278 01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:48.899 doors and doing it in the middle of the night. 1279 01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:51.399 And we're, we're off because we're off doing our own thing. 1280 01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:56.760 We don't, we're, we're all stuck and they're passing these, these, 1281 01:11:57.279 --> 01:12:02.880 you know, absolutely absurd, you know, legislation right now that makes, 1282 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:08.500 that does nothing for any of us. And I think 1283 01:12:08.539 --> 01:12:14.840 that is, absolutely some sea change type stuff because people 1284 01:12:14.899 --> 01:12:17.359 are now going, wait a minute. It's kind of like 1285 01:12:17.380 --> 01:12:20.699 what Emil said. It's like now they're looking up. Like, 1286 01:12:20.760 --> 01:12:25.659 wait a minute. That means this is what you normally, 1287 01:12:25.779 --> 01:12:29.779 this is who you really are. There's some people, unfortunately, 1288 01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:35.930 that they're okay with that. They're going to eventually feel 1289 01:12:35.970 --> 01:12:39.810 it as well, unfortunately. Unfortunately. I wish nothing ill on anyone, 1290 01:12:39.859 --> 01:12:44.909 but this thing is this, this, this, this pandemic is 1291 01:12:45.229 --> 01:12:48.630 absolutely some, I would even say, you know, Emil, you 1292 01:12:48.729 --> 01:12:52.510 used the whole, you know, uh, uh, concept. I wouldn't 1293 01:12:52.569 --> 01:12:56.029 even say concept of, of understanding of ghosts. I think 1294 01:12:56.069 --> 01:12:59.810 this is some, some level of this, something else we're 1295 01:12:59.829 --> 01:13:02.720 dealing with a plague. If you really think about it, 1296 01:13:02.869 --> 01:13:07.939 of course, like we, we're not going to just, pretend 1297 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:10.579 is not here like whatever they're saying well we just 1298 01:13:10.619 --> 01:13:13.460 got to have to someone said something the other day 1299 01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:15.720 about surrendering to it it's just going to have to 1300 01:13:15.779 --> 01:13:20.260 exist within i'm like every other country first world especially 1301 01:13:21.020 --> 01:13:23.850 has fought it unify you. 1302 01:13:23.779 --> 01:13:29.050 Know right yes and things like masks aren't politicized they're. 1303 01:13:28.689 --> 01:13:33.350 Not politicized right so what on what planet do you 1304 01:13:33.409 --> 01:13:39.060 think We're going to just go, yeah, he has a 1305 01:13:39.100 --> 01:13:41.060 point there. I guess I'll just have to do it. No. 1306 01:13:42.819 --> 01:13:47.239 Most people, most people, there are some, but most are 1307 01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:51.090 going to just totally just, you see it. Walk out 1308 01:13:51.130 --> 01:13:53.670 your door and you'll see it. You'll see people are 1309 01:13:53.789 --> 01:13:57.170 literally living and going through it in real time. They're 1310 01:13:57.189 --> 01:13:59.430 not listening to this nonsense. 1311 01:14:00.930 --> 01:14:05.729 Right? Yeah, it's the people that lived it. half of 1312 01:14:05.770 --> 01:14:09.130 the 20th century and half of the 21st century know 1313 01:14:09.770 --> 01:14:14.659 that there was, again, the government worked differently. And again, 1314 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:17.979 maybe I'm being naive because maybe, you know, again, I 1315 01:14:18.159 --> 01:14:20.819 think depending on where you live and especially being in 1316 01:14:20.859 --> 01:14:25.020 Chicago sometimes that the will of the people wasn't necessarily addressed. 1317 01:14:25.300 --> 01:14:27.699 But I do really, I mean, yeah, it's so basic, 1318 01:14:28.119 --> 01:14:30.789 but if you want change, you have to participate. And 1319 01:14:30.810 --> 01:14:33.229 that's the thing. And I do think, as everyone has said, 1320 01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.359 People are waking up and they are participating and they 1321 01:14:36.380 --> 01:14:39.890 do they see the what's going on, what we used 1322 01:14:39.899 --> 01:14:42.289 to have Sanford said going on under the table. It's 1323 01:14:42.329 --> 01:14:45.810 happening in broad daylight now. And they see the the 1324 01:14:46.029 --> 01:14:51.000 the gall and that the the brazenness. of these actions 1325 01:14:51.119 --> 01:14:53.239 and are like, no, this has to stop. And I 1326 01:14:53.310 --> 01:14:57.550 really do hope that a lot of these career jerks are, 1327 01:14:57.649 --> 01:15:00.210 are shown the door. And I, and I really, I mean,

1328 01:15:00.250 --> 01:15:03.090 that that's my hope. And I, you know, Emile and 1329 01:15:03.210 --> 01:15:06.819 I are in a, in a predominantly blue state. Although 1330 01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:09.079 once you get out of Cook County, it gets, it 1331 01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:11.859 gets pretty conservative. I see the look on Emile's face. 1332 01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:14.159 She knows what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. 1333 01:15:14.539 --> 01:15:16.899 I've never gone into a shop in Southern Illinois that 1334 01:15:16.939 --> 01:15:21.250 I didn't get followed so closely. And, As though I was. 1335 01:15:21.329 --> 01:15:21.609 Yeah. 1336 01:15:22.130 --> 01:15:24.409 Yeah. I mean. 1337 01:15:24.470 --> 01:15:26.720 You mean comic shops or you mean like, you know, 1338 01:15:26.779 --> 01:15:27.439 every shop. 1339 01:15:28.060 --> 01:15:30.140 I get followed. Like, and if I. 1340 01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:31.760 Why do they follow you? I don't get it. 1341 01:15:32.180 --> 01:15:36.039 If I'm, if I'm wearing a, and this happened in Wisconsin, 1342 01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:36.720 if I'm wearing a. 1343 01:15:36.739 --> 01:15:40.130 Headscarf, I mean, it's. Yeah. 1344 01:15:40.250 --> 01:15:43.310 I mean, I mean, I'm treated like I'm the next 1345 01:15:43.409 --> 01:15:45.069 person who's going to do something terrible. 1346 01:15:45.130 --> 01:15:45.630 I wasn't even. 1347 01:15:46.039 --> 01:15:48.159 I was in Wisconsin and I went into this place 1348 01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:49.880 to get coffee. I was with a friend of mine 1349 01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:52.279 and I have an eye problem. So I had a 1350 01:15:52.300 --> 01:15:55.739 headscarf on and they, they were very, they wouldn't even 1351 01:15:55.779 --> 01:15:57.079 serve me. They would not serve me. 1352 01:15:57.100 --> 01:15:58.060 And I thought, wow. 1353 01:15:58.560 --> 01:15:59.000 Yeah. 1354 01:15:59.260 --> 01:16:02.890 I mean, I was like, because you had a headscarf on. Yeah. 1355 01:16:02.930 --> 01:16:06.029 So that it just, I, I mean, I'm not, this 1356 01:16:06.090 --> 01:16:08.609 is nothing really. I mean, this is so small because 1357 01:16:08.630 --> 01:16:13.090 I can take the headscarf off, but it just, it 1358 01:16:13.109 --> 01:16:16.649 just said to me, How do you live in this 1359 01:16:16.689 --> 01:16:19.250 world if you're, and I know because I have friends 1360 01:16:19.270 --> 01:16:22.710 who are Muslim and I've actually encountered people being assaulted 1361 01:16:23.229 --> 01:16:25.770 while being Muslim. And I just, you know, and that 1362 01:16:25.810 --> 01:16:29.090 was during more during the Iraq war. And I look 1363 01:16:29.130 --> 01:16:31.789 at it and I think, you know, I think it's 1364 01:16:31.829 --> 01:16:35.670 our ghosts. It's our legacy. It's our legacy of genocide, 1365 01:16:35.810 --> 01:16:39.569 our legacy of slavery, our legacy. You know, we, we 1366 01:16:39.609 --> 01:16:42.239 are going to have to really deal with it. We've 1367 01:16:42.300 --> 01:16:44.930 got to. We've got to stand up to it now 1368 01:16:44.970 --> 01:16:48.750 and really engage in a long-term national discussion about what 1369 01:16:48.770 --> 01:16:49.550 this has made us. 1370 01:16:51.569 --> 01:16:54.670 How can we as cartoonists and people in the comic industry, 1371 01:16:55.649 --> 01:16:59.189 you know, this book is, there's other books that address 1372 01:16:59.210 --> 01:17:02.369 this kind of stuff too. This book was our little 1373 01:17:02.550 --> 01:17:05.409 way of doing that. But how can we going forward 1374 01:17:05.989 --> 01:17:13.640 in the comics industry and as creators do more in 1375 01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:17.239 a creative way, because I don't think we should necessarily 1376 01:17:17.260 --> 01:17:21.760 just be creating hardcore propaganda, though there's a role for 1377 01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:27.250 that too, propaganda for good. But as creators, how should we, 1378 01:17:27.770 --> 01:17:31.430 how can we be more involved and affect more change 1379 01:17:31.489 --> 01:17:36.050 and speak for good rather than evil? 1380 01:17:37.750 --> 01:17:40.989 Well, I think we, in a sense, we kind of, 1381 01:17:43.789 --> 01:17:46.630 we've been ahead of this, or at least we were 1382 01:17:47.770 --> 01:17:52.329 influenced by a lot of this when we started our series, 1383 01:17:52.369 --> 01:17:57.119 Bitter Root, because we, someone asked a question on our, 1384 01:17:57.220 --> 01:18:02.680 I think the panel yesterday, what kind of jumpstarted our 1385 01:18:05.439 --> 01:18:10.310 venture into doing Bitter Root. And I said, 2016. you know, 1386 01:18:10.329 --> 01:18:15.250 the election. And right after that, we saw a lot 1387 01:18:15.409 --> 01:18:26.659 of uncertainty, strife, unrest, a lot of, I guess the 1388 01:18:26.899 --> 01:18:31.640 word is, you know, people started to feel like if 1389 01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:37.449 this is the best we got, then what, what point 1390 01:18:37.529 --> 01:18:40.310 is there? So, you know, people, you know, they, a 1391 01:18:40.409 --> 01:18:43.479 loss of enthusiasm, if you will, at that point, we 1392 01:18:44.319 --> 01:18:50.949 were at a lowest, but then something dawned on myself 1393 01:18:51.010 --> 01:18:53.710 and many others. We just started talking similar to what 1394 01:18:53.750 --> 01:18:55.989 you said, Craig, how can we, but we got to 1395 01:18:56.409 --> 01:19:00.560 speak about this going back, you know, to what we 1396 01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:06.359 said earlier, you know, 90% of our most beloved characters 1397 01:19:07.039 --> 01:19:14.399 were created from some social unrest throughout history. The Captain Americas, 1398 01:19:14.430 --> 01:19:17.409 the Supermans, and so on and so forth. All those 1399 01:19:17.449 --> 01:19:22.590 characters are tragedy stories, to be honest with you. Barely 1400 01:19:22.750 --> 01:19:26.770 any of these characters had parents. They had all this 1401 01:19:27.449 -->

01:19:30.800 social strife. Personal and socially abroad. I'm like, what is 1402 01:19:30.819 --> 01:19:40.329 this generation's What can we do to create the next 1403 01:19:40.430 --> 01:19:45.779 generation of stories and characters, if you will, to tell 1404 01:19:46.220 --> 01:19:51.739 stories for this moment in time, in history? And that's 1405 01:19:51.760 --> 01:19:57.760 when we just started to brainstorm ideas. And that's honestly 1406 01:19:58.140 --> 01:20:06.979 how Bitterroot came to inception. And we've had I can't 1407 01:20:07.020 --> 01:20:09.439 even begin to tell you how many discussions we've had 1408 01:20:09.500 --> 01:20:12.439 just like this because of what we did with our book. 1409 01:20:14.050 --> 01:20:16.750 Scholars all over the country, all over the world, even 1410 01:20:17.329 --> 01:20:19.750 reaching out to us saying, we were using your book 1411 01:20:20.529 --> 01:20:25.289 as a, as curriculum for, for, you know, our classes 1412 01:20:25.550 --> 01:20:30.590 and things of that nature. Yeah. So, you know, that's 1413 01:20:31.529 --> 01:20:33.770 at least what we're doing now. I want to continue 1414 01:20:33.810 --> 01:20:35.340 to do more of that kind of stuff. I want, 1415 01:20:35.779 --> 01:20:38.500 more stories to come out like that. To some degree, 1416 01:20:38.539 --> 01:20:41.859 we're trying to open the door for other creators to 1417 01:20:41.899 --> 01:20:48.189 come through the door at Image and other publishers that 1418 01:20:48.229 --> 01:20:54.170 have diverse stories. So yeah, we're trying to, we're continuing 1419 01:20:54.210 --> 01:21:03.630 to do the things that we feel will truly resonate 1420 01:21:04.529 --> 01:21:10.369 with people by telling stories that are about something we 1421 01:21:10.529 --> 01:21:13.390 all can identify with, because we're not just talking about 1422 01:21:15.250 --> 01:21:21.109 solely racial and, you know, civil unrest and things of 1423 01:21:21.149 --> 01:21:24.029 that nature. You know, that's kind of the undercurrent. Our 1424 01:21:24.069 --> 01:21:28.069 story is honestly about family. I don't care what background 1425 01:21:28.090 --> 01:21:30.810 you come from. It's about the core of the story 1426 01:21:30.850 --> 01:21:34.899 is about family. But then we take that and we say, okay, 1427 01:21:34.939 --> 01:21:40.810 how does the family, deal with racial, social unrest, things 1428 01:21:40.829 --> 01:21:43.170 of that nature. How do they see it? There's different 1429 01:21:43.210 --> 01:21:45.550 opinions within the family. We all can relate to that. 1430 01:21:45.939 --> 01:21:52.619 Not everyone is completely unified on ways to approach it. 1431 01:21:52.659 --> 01:21:56.000 So I say that to say that's where we get 1432 01:21:56.020 --> 01:22:02.100 the most rich discussions on because there's that one core 1433 01:22:02.140 --> 01:22:04.180 thing that every last one of us can talk about. 1434 01:22:04.520 --> 01:22:07.939 And then we branch

into the deeper you know, stories. 1435 01:22:08.810 --> 01:22:12.180 It's interesting that you mentioned families because, you know, the, 1436 01:22:12.279 --> 01:22:15.859 the cartoonists that, that, that did these comic books in the, 1437 01:22:16.020 --> 01:22:21.880 in the fifties during the, uh, the, the, the, uh, uh, 1438 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:26.760 tension between, uh, Russia and the United States. 1439 01:22:26.520 --> 01:22:27.479 And then the McCarthy era. 1440 01:22:27.699 --> 01:22:34.239 Sure. The red scare theory, the red scare era. And then, uh, and, 1441 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:38.390 and then the, cartoonists who did these comics about voting 1442 01:22:38.869 --> 01:22:42.970 during the Civil Rights era, they zeroed in. A number 1443 01:22:42.989 --> 01:22:48.270 of the books deal with family. I'm kind of amused 1444 01:22:49.439 --> 01:22:56.340 about this comic. It's a comic, and you can see 1445 01:22:56.359 --> 01:23:00.380 the cover here, If Your Kids Could Vote. It's all 1446 01:23:00.439 --> 01:23:03.520 based on the family, and the kids, like a Greta... 1447 01:23:04.890 --> 01:23:08.149 Thornburg and, uh, David Hogg, uh, brother and sister, like 1448 01:23:08.170 --> 01:23:11.550 are chiding their parents because they're not planning on voting, 1449 01:23:11.590 --> 01:23:14.970 you know? And the kids, the kids, so the cartoonist 1450 01:23:15.050 --> 01:23:18.510 came up with an idea, like, let's, let's, let's, you know, let's, 1451 01:23:18.609 --> 01:23:21.189 let's have a thing about kids and family. And then the, the, 1452 01:23:21.390 --> 01:23:24.180 the next book, one of those, which I showed before, 1453 01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:28.140 an American family gets out the vote, you know, it's, it's, 1454 01:23:28.380 --> 01:23:34.649 and then, uh, the later double in NAACP, uh, comic, uh, 1455 01:23:36.510 --> 01:23:42.609 is The Street Where You Live. The cover is a 1456 01:23:42.649 --> 01:23:46.050 black mom with her son walking down the street. I 1457 01:23:48.250 --> 01:23:52.510 think that comic books, when I grew up, it was 1458 01:23:52.590 --> 01:23:58.609 just so much about teenage Spider-Man, and I related to 1459 01:23:58.630 --> 01:24:03.149 him as a teenager. But now, like what Sanford's talking about, 1460 01:24:03.510 --> 01:24:06.609 And these comic books of old, it was about family. 1461 01:24:07.090 --> 01:24:09.310 And even like, I'm thinking now, like there was a 1462 01:24:09.329 --> 01:24:13.310 comic book about Superman's family. And I don't think comic 1463 01:24:13.329 --> 01:24:18.600 books address family enough in that core group that can 1464 01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:19.640 have so much power. 1465 01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:26.100 I actually know, based on background conversations, that during the 1466 01:24:26.140 --> 01:24:31.220 New 52, DC dissuaded the creators from thinking of the 1467 01:24:31.279 --> 01:24:35.520 characters as as being family. And it's so ridiculous given the, 1468 01:24:35.930 --> 01:24:39.439 the idea of legacy that started with the golden age characters, 1469 01:24:39.489 --> 01:24:43.899 the silver age characters into the newer generations of these heroes. 1470 01:24:44.159 --> 01:24:46.260 And it's like, no, no, no. Our heroes are outlaws. 1471 01:24:46.539 --> 01:24:48.220 They gotta be bad. They gotta be outlaws. Well, we 1472 01:24:48.279 --> 01:24:50.659 all see how well that worked and now they are 1473 01:24:50.979 --> 01:24:53.539 embracing the idea of family and that, and you know, 1474 01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:55.699 I wanted to ask, uh, based on my favorite things 1475 01:24:55.779 --> 01:24:59.159 as monsters, uh, the fact that, uh, it, it is 1476 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:02.520 set in the sixties and in the political, uh, uh, 1477 01:25:02.579 --> 01:25:05.800 Chicago environment that you grew up in and everything. So 1478 01:25:05.819 --> 01:25:09.119 you really are dealing with, you know, personal issues, uh, 1479 01:25:09.220 --> 01:25:14.960 amidst this, this political backdrop in your books. I just 1480 01:25:14.979 --> 01:25:15.560 want you to talk. 1481 01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:20.680 Yeah. You know, it's amazing, uh, just how much things 1482 01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:25.210 don't change. Right. I mean, because I remember as a kid, uh, 1483 01:25:26.029 --> 01:25:28.869 I remember the protest. I remember running into protests. I 1484 01:25:28.909 --> 01:25:33.869 remember walking into them and, uh, and having, you know, 1485 01:25:33.890 --> 01:25:35.770 I mean, and I brought my daughter to protests of 1486 01:25:35.789 --> 01:25:39.069 the Iraq war. So I, you know, that kind of 1487 01:25:39.810 --> 01:25:45.369 intimidation is, you know, I mean, it's, it's what we 1488 01:25:45.449 --> 01:25:48.829 experienced during the sixties in Chicago. And I, and during 1489 01:25:48.850 --> 01:25:52.409 the sixties, I remember the fear, you know, I remember 1490 01:25:52.430 --> 01:25:57.670 the intimidation. I remember that the lines were drawn in 1491 01:25:57.710 --> 01:26:02.579 this really weird way. And, You know, we don't have 1492 01:26:02.600 --> 01:26:05.560 to do that. I think that we're being engineered towards 1493 01:26:05.619 --> 01:26:08.159 a civil war. I think that that's what's really the 1494 01:26:08.199 --> 01:26:10.640 attempt is being made to bring us to a state 1495 01:26:10.659 --> 01:26:15.029 of civil war. And we can say because everybody loses. 1496 01:26:15.130 --> 01:26:17.369 That's the thing. People who think that they stand to 1497 01:26:17.430 --> 01:26:21.189 win anything in this situation are completely deluded. Whoever is 1498 01:26:21.329 --> 01:26:25.859 engineering this wants to take everything they've got. And that's 1499 01:26:25.960 --> 01:26:29.189 the deal. I mean, they've got to wake up because 1500 01:26:29.289 --> 01:26:32.149 this is like the con. You know, this is when 1501 01:26:32.350 --> 01:26:35.229 the guy is saying, hey, I've got this coin, you

know, 1502 01:26:35.300 --> 01:26:37.520 and it's worth a lot. But the pawn shop's closed. 1503 01:26:37.779 --> 01:26:40.680 This is the point where you've got to realize there's 1504 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:44.899 no guy going to buy this for $ 50, 000, guys. You're 1505 01:26:44.920 --> 01:26:48.770 going to lose everything you've got. You're right in the 1506 01:26:48.789 --> 01:26:52.000 middle of the con. And the con is to divide us. 1507 01:26:52.789 --> 01:26:55.250 We are brothers and sisters. And I kind of wish 1508 01:26:55.329 --> 01:26:58.930 the aliens would come. I just always, I find myself going, 1509 01:26:58.949 --> 01:27:02.680 you know, this would be so good for us. 1510 01:27:03.060 --> 01:27:06.619 Like, come on. You can always drive. 1511 01:27:07.079 --> 01:27:11.319 Why don't you just land and really, really announce your presence? Because, look, 1512 01:27:11.979 --> 01:27:16.109 I'm going to align with non-tentacles. That's how it's going 1513 01:27:16.130 --> 01:27:17.050 to be, right? 1514 01:27:17.710 --> 01:27:21.680 I don't know, though. I got to say, Emil, remembering 1515 01:27:21.699 --> 01:27:25.840 the 80s miniseries and television show V, I have a 1516 01:27:25.899 --> 01:27:29.420 feeling based on our current politicians, there are going to 1517 01:27:29.439 --> 01:27:32.220 be collaborators that will be very happy to warm up 1518 01:27:32.319 --> 01:27:36.020 and hail to our new tentacle overlords. They're right. 1519 01:27:37.659 --> 01:27:39.229 I was just going to make the joke. I said, 1520 01:27:40.369 --> 01:27:46.350 Who says that they're not already here? They may already 1521 01:27:46.409 --> 01:27:49.399 be here with all this insanity that's happening. 1522 01:27:49.989 --> 01:27:52.460 It's almost like you work for comic books or something, 1523 01:27:52.600 --> 01:27:55.800 to say something like that. 1524 01:27:55.939 --> 01:27:59.979 He's talking about the X Factor. I keep thinking, is 1525 01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:01.539 that a Marvel comic book? 1526 01:28:02.920 --> 01:28:09.020 Exactly. I want to acknowledge some great comments that people 1527 01:28:09.079 --> 01:28:11.890 are saying And Carl says, over the last five years 1528 01:28:11.909 --> 01:28:14.229 breaking into comics for the first time, I'm so grateful 1529 01:28:14.270 --> 01:28:16.770 for creators like yourselves who don't avoid giving a voice 1530 01:28:16.800 --> 01:28:19.840 to the voiceless, especially in the smallest press. Thank you. 1531 01:28:20.220 --> 01:28:22.399 Michael says, I'm in Canada with family in the States. 1532 01:28:22.659 --> 01:28:24.899 Truly hope America makes the right choice for all its 1533 01:28:24.939 --> 01:28:29.119 citizens and their well-being. Oh, this is great. There you go. 1534 01:28:30.060 --> 01:28:32.699 Somebody just purchased the book via Clover Press. That's good. 1535 01:28:32.739 --> 01:28:39.829 I'm glad they're better. And then, you know, I want 1536 01:28:39.850 --> 01:28:43.600 to say. his name right. Eternity Forever says X-Men was 1537 01:28:43.640 --> 01:28:44.859 a family book. Absolutely. 1538 01:28:44.939 --> 01:28:45.699 Oh, yeah, that's true. 1539 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:46.319 Family book. 1540 01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:49.260 Power Pack, Thor, all family themes, all agreed. 1541 01:28:49.279 --> 01:28:50.859 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1542 01:28:51.399 --> 01:28:54.119 A question for Sanford. They want to know when the 1543 01:28:54.140 --> 01:28:58.770 handsome Bitterroot hardcover is coming to the States. Um. 1544 01:29:00.170 --> 01:29:03.470 after volume three, uh, we'll, we'll be launching volume three 1545 01:29:03.529 --> 01:29:09.189 in March, I think. And well, we're launching the, the third, um, 1546 01:29:10.529 --> 01:29:14.729 the third arc in March. And then, uh, we'll collect, um, 1547 01:29:14.850 --> 01:29:20.119 that in June, July. And so, you know, this time, 1548 01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:21.539 so next year, August. 1549 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:26.359 September, uh, the legend wants to, uh, congratulate Craig for 1550 01:29:26.380 --> 01:29:29.600 bringing Popeye to IDW a while back, love Roger Landry's 1551 01:29:29.659 --> 01:29:33.550 and the, Sagendorf Classics also loved the Reefer Madness book 1552 01:29:33.569 --> 01:29:37.829 that you put together. I love that. 1553 01:29:38.689 --> 01:29:40.970 I do books for the good of mankind and person 1554 01:29:41.010 --> 01:29:43.449 kind and I do books that maybe aren't so good. 1555 01:29:43.470 --> 01:29:46.810 That's all right. No, that's cool. 1556 01:29:46.829 --> 01:29:50.729 Hey, if, if, if ever, if ever there was someone 1557 01:29:50.770 --> 01:29:53.229 we should, there would, should be a role model. And 1558 01:29:53.810 --> 01:29:57.130 for us today, it's certainly Popeye who was always fighting 1559 01:29:57.170 --> 01:30:00.149 for the little guy and on the side of right. 1560 01:30:01.090 --> 01:30:04.529 I completely agree. I'm a massive Popeye fan in the 1561 01:30:04.569 --> 01:30:07.090 right hands, man. Man, I don't know if you saw, 1562 01:30:07.350 --> 01:30:09.310 and I don't know who made it, but they tried 1563 01:30:09.329 --> 01:30:12.149 to kind of politically correct Popeye, and they took the 1564 01:30:12.189 --> 01:30:14.130 pipe out of his mouth and they gave him a whistle. 1565 01:30:14.850 --> 01:30:19.869 And it just was just insanely like, no, man, it's like, 1566 01:30:19.989 --> 01:30:22.649 come on, you're kind of missing the point here. But whatever, 1567 01:30:22.770 --> 01:30:23.210 it's fine. 1568 01:30:23.270 --> 01:30:25.569 He was whistling anyway, though. He got his. 1569 01:30:27.739 --> 01:30:29.539 Tobacco out of the way once he gets that out 1570 01:30:29.579 --> 01:30:31.279 of the way he can whistle so it's kind. 1571 01:30:31.159 --> 01:30:33.260 Of like that wasn't tobacco that was in his pipe 1572 01:30:33.300 --> 01:30:36.750 he had talked about it as being spinach and uh 1573

01:30:36.770 --> 01:30:41.130 yeah i might go back to my reefer madness book actually. 1574 01:30:40.810 --> 01:30:44.090 So spinach sure it is that's great. 1575 01:30:43.890 --> 01:30:46.350 I was popeye was an influence he was the first 1576 01:30:46.390 --> 01:30:50.489 superhero before superman he was costumed in his sailor outfit 1577 01:30:50.550 --> 01:30:53.810 and and he uh You know, he ate spinach and 1578 01:30:53.819 --> 01:30:58.090 became strong and fought bad guys like Brutus. And we 1579 01:30:58.109 --> 01:31:01.390 have a few Brutuses around right now that he should 1580 01:31:01.430 --> 01:31:02.890 give a twister sock to, I think. 1581 01:31:03.670 --> 01:31:07.600 Absolutely, man. I mean, we've been going 90 minutes, guys. 1582 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:10.319 Anything else that we want to say before we wrap up? 1583 01:31:11.619 --> 01:31:13.640 Oh, I did want to show one more page from 1584 01:31:13.659 --> 01:31:14.659 the book if I could. 1585 01:31:14.680 --> 01:31:15.420 Sure, of course. 1586 01:31:15.439 --> 01:31:19.189 Because it's the first comic we have in there. And it's... 1587 01:31:20.329 --> 01:31:22.630 since we're kind of wrapping up, I think this is, 1588 01:31:23.210 --> 01:31:25.609 there we go. This is one, this is an important one. Your, 1589 01:31:25.850 --> 01:31:29.109 your vote is vital. It's the first book comic that 1590 01:31:29.149 --> 01:31:33.390 we reprint, uh, vote. And they're all putting their, uh, 1591 01:31:34.300 --> 01:31:38.500 in their ballots for America's future. Uh, so I, I, 1592 01:31:39.020 --> 01:31:41.180 you know, I think that's a, that's a pretty, pretty 1593 01:31:41.199 --> 01:31:43.600 good summation. That was a Harvey comic book, the same 1594 01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:46.869 people that put out Casper and hot stuff and all 1595 01:31:46.909 --> 01:31:52.279 those great horror comics and Richie rich. Richie Rich. And 1596 01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:57.449 so to make up for Richie Rich, they put out 1597 01:31:57.489 --> 01:32:02.949 some comics, this comic about voting. There you go. They 1598 01:32:02.970 --> 01:32:04.529 did three or four of the comics that were in this. 1599 01:32:05.869 --> 01:32:09.670 They must have had a fellow mission to get out 1600 01:32:09.689 --> 01:32:13.829 the word about democracy. The Harvey brothers. 1601 01:32:14.489 --> 01:32:16.029 Dick Foley wants to say hello, Sanford. 1602 01:32:18.739 --> 01:32:21.760 Very cool. There you go. 1603 01:32:22.020 --> 01:32:22.380 Excellent. 1604 01:32:23.399 --> 01:32:29.750 Emil, when's your next book coming out? Indeed. Emil? 1605 01:32:31.869 --> 01:32:34.970 I could pretend like I was frozen. I was thinking 1606 01:32:35.029 --> 01:32:41.050 about just pretending. And then, how would you know? Stop. 1607 01:32:41.449 --> 01:32:42.170 I thought you were. 1608 01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:52.199 You're working hot and heavy on a new book, right? 1609 01:32:52.220 --> 01:32:57.960 I can't say. I just can't say. Okay. 1610 01:32:58.600 --> 01:32:58.880 All right. 1611 01:32:58.939 --> 01:32:59.550 Interesting. 1612 01:33:00.100 --> 01:33:02.489 Because truly, Emil, I really do want to get you on, 1613 01:33:02.569 --> 01:33:07.270 if you'd be willing, in a one-on-one conversation to talk 1614 01:33:07.329 --> 01:33:12.550 more about your stuff. And really, congratulations. Because really, I 1615 01:33:12.569 --> 01:33:14.989 didn't know how to contact you. And I'm so glad. 1616 01:33:15.460 --> 01:33:18.979 that this opportunity came up to finally meet you. And 1617 01:33:19.060 --> 01:33:21.409 it would be great to talk more about your work 1618 01:33:21.430 --> 01:33:22.770 because absolutely. 1619 01:33:22.949 --> 01:33:25.430 She's a genius, a recognized genius. 1620 01:33:26.609 --> 01:33:27.970 I have a question. 1621 01:33:28.590 --> 01:33:30.569 Have all those awards on their mantles. 1622 01:33:32.470 --> 01:33:36.770 If your house caught fire, would that drawing, that double-signed drawing, 1623 01:33:36.930 --> 01:33:39.029 those two drawings be what you grab to leave with? 1624 01:33:39.529 --> 01:33:43.250 Among them, I have walls of, you really can't see 1625 01:33:43.760 --> 01:33:46.180 I'll try and point the camera a little bit, maybe. 1626 01:33:46.199 --> 01:33:47.420 I mean, there you go. 1627 01:33:47.439 --> 01:33:49.619 You can see a few more commissions that I have 1628 01:33:49.699 --> 01:33:53.960 on the walls. Yeah, I've been incredibly fortunate and really 1629 01:33:54.340 --> 01:33:57.500 bought a lot of my art before the prices really exploded. 1630 01:33:57.520 --> 01:34:05.090 And before Stanford started doing digital, you know, breaking our hearts. Sure. 1631 01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:09.819 It's true. And also, thankfully, doing 15 years of podcasting, 1632 01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:12.960 a lot of the artists are friends, and they've given 1633 01:34:12.979 --> 01:34:17.739 me a nice friend rate. Craig mentioned Dick Ayers. I 1634 01:34:17.810 --> 01:34:20.430 have a piece that he did for me in the 1635 01:34:20.470 --> 01:34:24.689 early 2000s. I've always loved that one brief moment where 1636 01:34:24.869 --> 01:34:28.529 Iron Man's faceplate had those points at the top. 1637 01:34:28.670 --> 01:34:28.970 Oh, yeah. 1638 01:34:29.550 --> 01:34:31.289 I don't know how long it lasted. I first saw 1639 01:34:31.329 --> 01:34:34.310 it on one of those Marvel superhero cartoons of the 60s. 1640 01:34:35.300 --> 01:34:37.939 And it just fascinated me. And I asked Mr. Ayers 1641 01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:41.100 to do that. And he did a beautiful, perfect job 1642 01:34:41.300 --> 01:34:44.300 of doing that. So that's a great piece. And yeah, 1643 01:34:44.380 --> 01:34:47.140 I mean, really, Tony DeZuniga, I've got a Jonah Hex 1644 01:34:47.159 --> 01:34:50.720 from him. And I have a blade that Gene Colan 1645 01:34:50.739 --> 01:34:53.699 made for me that I absolutely love. So yeah, no, 1646 01:34:54.399 --> 01:34:58.039 I risk

getting burnt, Emil, to save a lot of 1647 01:34:58.140 --> 01:34:59.000 my original art. 1648 01:34:59.439 --> 01:35:01.479 And in our families. But what about you, Sanford? What 1649 01:35:01.510 --> 01:35:04.369 would you save? I mean, I know your families are 1650 01:35:04.390 --> 01:35:08.529 your family. It's already safe. What object? 1651 01:35:09.399 --> 01:35:14.800 Good cover for me by saying that. Of course, the family, 1652 01:35:14.859 --> 01:35:18.239 but as far as any kind of... Actually, I started 1653 01:35:18.279 --> 01:35:19.460 a small collection. 1654 01:35:19.500 --> 01:35:26.520 But before the family, what artwork would you save? 1655 01:35:27.220 --> 01:35:30.439 I don't know if I can tilt my camera just 1656 01:35:30.479 --> 01:35:35.609 a bit, because on the top of my spinner rack here, Okay. 1657 01:35:36.029 --> 01:35:41.270 Yeah, I don't want you to, you know, hurt yourself. Ooh. 1658 01:35:41.689 --> 01:35:44.050 You see up here, maybe not. 1659 01:35:44.590 --> 01:35:46.979 Ooh, what's that? 1660 01:35:47.420 --> 01:35:51.140 A Modesty Blaze. Oh, that's nice. 1661 01:35:52.199 --> 01:35:53.460 And... Wow. 1662 01:35:53.979 --> 01:35:59.699 I forgot the other comic strip there, but it was 1663 01:35:59.760 --> 01:36:03.739 kind of thrown in because the buyer, I mean, the seller... 1664 01:36:03.989 --> 01:36:08.289 just said, hey, because of the rate that he gave 1665 01:36:08.350 --> 01:36:12.100 me on the other piece, he just threw it in. Wow. 1666 01:36:12.439 --> 01:36:18.560 So I got Modesty Blaze, Jim Holdaway, Peter O'Connell. 1667 01:36:18.579 --> 01:36:19.220 Yeah. 1668 01:36:19.239 --> 01:36:20.699 I'm a big fan of that stuff. 1669 01:36:21.180 --> 01:36:22.359 Me too, man. That's amazing. 1670 01:36:22.380 --> 01:36:24.239 I'm a big fan of that stuff. I know a 1671 01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:27.250 lot of– they're kind of– Jim Holdaway is kind of 1672 01:36:27.289 --> 01:36:30.909 like an artist-artist. A lot of guys– you know, look 1673 01:36:30.930 --> 01:36:34.109 to him like John Paul Leon is influenced by him and, 1674 01:36:34.149 --> 01:36:35.890 you know, he's an artist's artist. 1675 01:36:36.729 --> 01:36:36.949 Yeah. 1676 01:36:37.130 --> 01:36:40.289 Folks like that. But yeah, yeah, that stuff like that, 1677 01:36:41.380 --> 01:36:42.640 I would probably grab in. 1678 01:36:44.720 --> 01:36:47.460 Kelly, Kelly's a big Modesty Place person. Excuse me, I 1679 01:36:47.460 --> 01:36:48.739 didn't mean to stop you there. 1680 01:36:48.779 --> 01:36:49.619 Oh, Kelly, she is? 1681 01:36:49.640 --> 01:36:52.479 Yeah, she loves Kevin. So there's a conversation you should 1682 01:36:52.520 --> 01:36:53.680 have down the road. 1683 01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.439 Yeah, yeah. 1684 01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:55.539 Go ahead, continue. 1685 01:36:55.859 --> 01:36:57.960 Craig, Craig, I'm asking you. 1686 01:36:59.109 --> 01:37:03.869 Oh, neat. Well, our whole living room is George Harriman 1687 01:37:03.909 --> 01:37:05.710 Crazy Cat originals. 1688 01:37:05.850 --> 01:37:06.550 Wow. 1689 01:37:07.010 --> 01:37:09.720 We've got about a dozen of those. And then our 1690 01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:16.119 whole bedroom is Winsor McCay, Little Nemo, Dreams of the Rare, 1691 01:37:16.340 --> 01:37:18.539 but Fiend originals. 1692 01:37:19.100 --> 01:37:19.399 Wow. 1693 01:37:19.760 --> 01:37:21.659 Those are probably nearest and dearest to my heart. 1694 01:37:22.460 --> 01:37:22.680 Yeah. 1695 01:37:23.039 --> 01:37:24.619 So I would try to get those. 1696 01:37:24.659 --> 01:37:26.979 You've got to get close. What's that? 1697 01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:27.680 You've got to get close. 1698 01:37:27.890 --> 01:37:31.989 You better keep those close. Actually, we might need to talk. 1699 01:37:33.460 --> 01:37:33.920 Yeah? 1700 01:37:35.340 --> 01:37:37.399 They can trade. Exactly. 1701 01:37:37.899 --> 01:37:39.840 Oh, you're going to send me some pixels for a 1702 01:37:39.840 --> 01:37:43.039 little BMO Sunday page. Oh, great. 1703 01:37:44.319 --> 01:37:49.430 I'll send you one high-res version of the cover. 1704 01:37:51.270 --> 01:37:56.050 Wow. That's enough for a Can refuse. 1705 01:37:56.930 --> 01:37:58.590 And I will burn the file after that. 1706 01:37:59.050 --> 01:38:02.390 Emil and Sanford, do you guys do commissions? Do you 1707 01:38:02.430 --> 01:38:03.170 both do commissions? 1708 01:38:05.010 --> 01:38:07.829 I don't right now because of the schedule. 1709 01:38:07.850 --> 01:38:08.550 Sure. 1710 01:38:09.250 --> 01:38:10.890 So, yeah. Okay. 1711 01:38:11.189 --> 01:38:15.750 Emil, do you do commissions? I don't know if she 1712 01:38:15.770 --> 01:38:16.069 can hear me. 1713 01:38:16.069 --> 01:38:16.829 She's frozen again. 1714 01:38:16.850 --> 01:38:17.489 Not right now. 1715 01:38:17.789 --> 01:38:18.050 No. 1716 01:38:18.550 --> 01:38:19.229 I'm too busy. 1717 01:38:19.850 --> 01:38:21.069 Okay. 1718 01:38:21.109 --> 01:38:21.470 Understood. 1719 01:38:22.069 --> 01:38:22.850 I mean, yeah. 1720 01:38:23.489 --> 01:38:25.109 That's good. No, no, no. 1721 01:38:25.310 --> 01:38:29.210 As I always say, more so about when people don't 1722 01:38:29.250 --> 01:38:31.000 come on the podcast. and they're like, oh, I'm really sorry. 1723 01:38:31.020 --> 01:38:32.100 I haven't been on the show in a long time. 1724 01:38:32.149 --> 01:38:35.090 I'm like, it's better that you make the donuts than 1725 01:38:35.149 --> 01:38:37.689 talk about making the donuts. And I would say it's 1726 01:38:37.750 --> 01:38:40.409 better for you guys to make your books rather than 1727 01:38:41.170 --> 01:38:42.250 take commissions and stuff. 1728 01:38:42.609 --> 01:38:45.000 Speaking of making books, can I show you a book 1729 01:38:45.119 --> 01:38:47.479 that the UPS guy just brought? Sure. 1730 01:38:48.229 --> 01:38:50.029 Yeah, I saw it on the mental earlier. Please. 1731 01:38:50.449 --> 01:38:56.090 Yeah. We finally got Invisible Men. Beautiful. And the

subtitle 1732 01:38:56.149 --> 01:39:01.729 is The Trailblazing Black Artists of Comic Books. And it 1733 01:39:01.810 --> 01:39:10.189 profiles well over a dozen early Golden Age cartoonists and 1734 01:39:10.229 --> 01:39:15.699 presents their work in fascinating– background material about all of 1735 01:39:15.720 --> 01:39:17.800 them and there's a lot of artists here that nobody 1736 01:39:17.819 --> 01:39:20.760 even knew were black and uh. 1737 01:39:24.319 --> 01:39:29.500 Oh now bud's frozen oh no is everyone else all 1738 01:39:29.520 --> 01:39:31.539 right can everyone else hear me okay good i want 1739 01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:33.699 to make sure my connection's okay all right bud's in 1740 01:39:33.720 --> 01:39:38.020 the phantom zone unfortunately right now okay uh i don't 1741 01:39:38.050 --> 01:39:41.710 know what you know i'll i'll tell you yeah no 1742 01:39:41.750 --> 01:39:45.199 that's fantastic Because I certainly know about the great Matt 1743 01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:49.020 Baker and his incredible work. And I'm a massive fan 1744 01:39:49.470 --> 01:39:52.390 of anything that he's done. I love, it rhymes, I 1745 01:39:52.430 --> 01:39:54.109 want to say it's either it rhymes with lust or 1746 01:39:54.149 --> 01:39:56.970 it rhymes with dust. The graphic novel he made with 1747 01:39:57.029 --> 01:39:59.189 Arnold Drake in the 50s that a lot of people 1748 01:39:59.229 --> 01:40:01.869 point to as the first graphic novel because it was 1749 01:40:01.890 --> 01:40:05.970 a 64-page one story kind of great crime noir story 1750 01:40:06.010 --> 01:40:09.109 that he did. And his beautiful Phantom Lady work. My God, 1751 01:40:09.449 --> 01:40:10.489 what a genius. 1752 01:40:11.449 --> 01:40:12.520 I don't know anything about those. 1753 01:40:13.310 --> 01:40:13.800 Absolutely. 1754 01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:14.079 All right. 1755 01:40:14.100 --> 01:40:14.739 We lost Craig. 1756 01:40:15.539 --> 01:40:19.560 Maybe, John, could you send me those names? Because I'd 1757 01:40:19.600 --> 01:40:21.899 like to get those. That sounds really interesting to me. 1758 01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:25.369 About Matt Baker in that or on Invisible Men? 1759 01:40:25.390 --> 01:40:26.069 Yeah. 1760 01:40:26.109 --> 01:40:27.930 You know, yeah. I imagine that. 1761 01:40:27.909 --> 01:40:30.130 It's a page one I'm interested in. 1762 01:40:30.329 --> 01:40:30.810 Oh, sure. 1763 01:40:30.829 --> 01:40:31.869 Oh, absolutely. 1764 01:40:31.909 --> 01:40:32.430 Absolutely. 1765 01:40:32.770 --> 01:40:32.970 Yeah. 1766 01:40:34.670 --> 01:40:37.970 I want to say Dark Horse reprinted it within the 1767 01:40:38.010 --> 01:40:40.109 last 10 years, and I've seen it out there and stuff. 1768 01:40:40.329 --> 01:40:43.760 And yeah, it's great. It really is great. And seriously, 1769 01:40:43.800 --> 01:40:47.880 that's so fantastic, Emilio. Forgive me. But honestly, there's no 1770 01:40:48.020 --> 01:40:52.439 need necessarily to reach back. And certainly your

work is 1771 01:40:52.479 --> 01:40:56.000 so personal and in a different vein of comics. And again, 1772 01:40:56.560 --> 01:40:58.760 I hope it's not, this is meant as a compliment. 1773 01:40:59.340 --> 01:41:02.760 I love when, you know, people are like, wait a minute, 1774 01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:04.800 I never found this stuff before. That's really cool. And 1775 01:41:04.840 --> 01:41:07.329 it's great that you're discovering stuff like Mike Allred and 1776 01:41:07.390 --> 01:41:10.109 Ecstatic and things like that. I mean, that's terrific. 1777 01:41:10.649 --> 01:41:13.289 Well, it's exciting. I mean, I just, there's so much 1778 01:41:13.329 --> 01:41:20.979 I didn't know. And now I know, you know. So 1779 01:41:21.020 --> 01:41:23.699 much of it is beautiful. There's so many incredible artists 1780 01:41:23.720 --> 01:41:26.279 out there. working in comics. And I think right now 1781 01:41:26.380 --> 01:41:28.930 it's a Renaissance. I think there are more people, more 1782 01:41:29.010 --> 01:41:32.689 amazing people working in comics than maybe in the history 1783 01:41:32.729 --> 01:41:38.890 of comics. Uh, it's like, it's, it's so rich. And, uh, 1784 01:41:40.090 --> 01:41:44.229 I just love the way comics is, is people are 1785 01:41:44.609 --> 01:41:47.630 realizing even people my age who never read comics. I 1786 01:41:47.689 --> 01:41:51.310 did as a kid and even, you know, throughout my life, 1787 01:41:51.909 --> 01:41:54.619 But there are people who've never read a graphic novel 1788 01:41:54.720 --> 01:41:56.619 or a comic of any kind, and they're getting in. 1789 01:41:57.039 --> 01:42:02.220 They're diving, and they're enjoying it. And wow, it's great. 1790 01:42:02.239 --> 01:42:03.500 It makes me real happy. 1791 01:42:04.140 --> 01:42:07.680 Thankfully, truly, not blowing smoke up your butts here, but 1792 01:42:07.800 --> 01:42:11.010 really it's because of books like what you're doing, Emile, 1793 01:42:11.020 --> 01:42:14.069 and also Sanford as well, and the guys with Bitter Root, 1794 01:42:14.409 --> 01:42:17.479 and that it's not just superheroes. And thank God. For 1795 01:42:17.500 --> 01:42:20.920 the last 25 years, the genres have opened up again. 1796 01:42:21.479 --> 01:42:24.539 And we're at the same genre level we were in 1797 01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:27.039 the 40s and 50s. But like you said, more and 1798 01:42:27.060 --> 01:42:30.460 more people are making them. And because of creator-owned books 1799 01:42:30.560 --> 01:42:34.100 and Kickstarter and all the crowdfunding efforts, that there are 1800 01:42:34.140 --> 01:42:36.960 more voices than ever in comics. And that's why when 1801 01:42:36.979 --> 01:42:39.100 people are like, how do I break into comics? And 1802 01:42:39.140 --> 01:42:40.760 I always hear this from a lot of the more 1803 01:42:40.800 --> 01:42:43.119 successful guys. It's like, just start making them. And then 1804 01:42:43.140 --> 01:42:45.199 you're in comics. I mean, you can do it yourself. 1805 01:42:45.699 --> 01:42:47.279 And then, yeah, you know, you still have to gather 1806 01:42:47.319 --> 01:42:50.050 your audience, but it is possible and stuff. And, you know, 1807 01:42:50.100 --> 01:42:53.850 it's terrific. So I was going to try and let Sanford, 1808 01:42:54.069 --> 01:42:58.550 or pardon me, Craig come back, but I don't know. And, again, 1809 01:42:58.989 --> 01:43:01.229 we've been going for an hour and 45. So, like 1810 01:43:01.250 --> 01:43:04.989 I said, if there are any other final thoughts. 1811 01:43:05.489 --> 01:43:08.630 I have to confess, I disconnected him on purpose so 1812 01:43:08.649 --> 01:43:11.159 that we could go on. 1813 01:43:11.180 --> 01:43:13.319 I know that he's out of the room. Let's really talk. 1814 01:43:13.359 --> 01:43:15.460 Who knew you had these powers, Sanford? 1815 01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:19.220 Hey, I tell you what, if he'll, we'll talk after this, 1816 01:43:19.260 --> 01:43:21.689 I'll show you how you can, you know, you can 1817 01:43:21.729 --> 01:43:24.069 get out of interviews a little quicker. 1818 01:43:24.090 --> 01:43:27.970 I was going to say, I've experienced that with Sanford. 1819 01:43:28.010 --> 01:43:31.649 It's all right. I'm trying to get back. I got 1820 01:43:31.689 --> 01:43:33.409 a deadline stuff. 1821 01:43:33.609 --> 01:43:36.800 Oh, please guys. Honestly, I've loved this conversation. And truly, 1822 01:43:37.319 --> 01:43:39.920 I think it's important what you guys did contributing to 1823 01:43:39.939 --> 01:43:42.020 Craig's book. Everyone, you can see it right there at 1824 01:43:42.039 --> 01:43:45.800 the bottom of the, uh, Voting is Your Superpower, an 1825 01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:49.319 incredible book from Craig Yeo from Yeo Books. You could 1826 01:43:49.380 --> 01:43:53.539 buy it via cloverpress.us or through Bud Plant Comics, two 1827 01:43:53.600 --> 01:43:58.640 great distributors, and this book deserves your attention, especially as 1828 01:43:58.680 --> 01:44:02.119 we have the March to Election Day. So again, Craig Yeo, 1829 01:44:02.180 --> 01:44:05.380 thank you. Sanford Green, thank you very much. Emile Ferris, 1830 01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:09.600 and truly look forward to future conversations with all three 1831 01:44:09.640 --> 01:44:12.779 of you on an individual basis, if you're willing. I 1832 01:44:12.779 --> 01:44:14.140 don't know if you might be sick. You might be 1833 01:44:14.180 --> 01:44:15.989 sick of me after two hours. I can appreciate that 1834 01:44:16.029 --> 01:44:16.750 as well. 1835 01:44:17.149 --> 01:44:19.130 Thank you, John. Nice to meet you, Sanford. 1836 01:44:19.369 --> 01:44:20.630 Bye, Craig. 1837 01:44:20.890 --> 01:44:23.729 Well, everybody, thanks a lot for watching. Great questions, as always.