Full Transcript for scene missing the night of the hunter

everybody and Ian Brill. H Yeah, this is I know 71 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.919 Parker has been burning about this movie for months, haven't you, Jeffrey. 72 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:46.560 Yeah, I just like, you know, people liked the last 73 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.599 time we talked about a movie, so I thought, there's 74 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.000 another movie we've all watched. 75 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.039 Let's watch Let's. 76 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:56.159 Talk about a good movie though, right, Like people liked 77 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:57.919 it when we talked about a good movie as opposed 78 00:03:57.960 --> 00:03:59.000 to like ninety percent. 79 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:00.680 Of the movies that we talk Yeah, they don't. They 80 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.400 don't like it when we talk about skdoo. 81 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.439 So sometimes that's some of them do, some of them 82 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:08.919 do some of them like a convoy. But I think 83 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:09.800 it's better when we. 84 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:15.680 Do this, well, Jeff, you start, but then also, I 85 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.879 know there's a bigger story in terms of why Steve 86 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:18.680 is here as well. 87 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:20.160 But what what uh? 88 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.120 You know, what made you like go, hey, man, we 89 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:23.800 got to do Night of the Hunter because that was you, 90 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:24.759 that was coming from you? 91 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:25.560 Was it? 92 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:27.560 You know? 93 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:27.879 Wight? 94 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.720 I don't know, I just uh, I don't know. Sometime 95 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.519 last year I watched it again and I got Hunter fever. 96 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.079 You know, I was just like, man, this movie, this 97 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.360 story was like fifty years ahead of its time. I mean, 98 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.399 in a way, the movie itself is a throwback to 99 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.319 like a movie from the thirties, but yet it's also 100 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:49.720 something that you wouldn't expect to be handled until the 101 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:50.519 late nineties. 102 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:54.160 My god, there's. 103 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.680 Just just so much going on and and and then 104 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.560 we can get to the bottom of why do we 105 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:03.079 think Charles Walton only did this or is it's kind 106 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.279 of the equivalent stepping up at that knocking it out 107 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.240 of the park, And then well I'm done, never gonna 108 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:07.639 top that. 109 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.680 Yeah, Well, so, Jeff, when was. 110 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:11.839 The first time you saw it? And we should go 111 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.759 around the horn? And I don't

know I have any idea. 112 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.120 I mean, we're but it's something that you were a 113 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.959 lot younger and saw, right, yeah, or something. 114 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:21.439 I don't know. 115 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:22.800 I mean I didn't. I saw it when I was 116 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:26.000 like a teenager. Yeah, I mean the first time. Oh no, 117 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:28.319 it was in New York City, so like it was, 118 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:30.639 I was like sixteen seventeen. I saw in a theater 119 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.240 or so in a rival theater, which is a great 120 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:34.480 way to see it movie like this. 121 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.879 Yeah, Alison, do you what? 122 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:44.160 I saw it two days ago, so the first time, Yeah, exactly. 123 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:44.879 I do you like it? 124 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:47.360 I thought it was. I thought there were. 125 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:53.160 Lots of interesting choices in unvarying levels, like acting choices, 126 00:05:53.639 --> 00:06:00.920 directing choices, script choices, editing choices that were unusual and surprising. 127 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:03.360 Yes. Absolutely. 128 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:08.360 And ever since we've talked about lockdown and John made 129 00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:11.920 us lockdown a date for talking this, Leber's had Stanley 130 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.879 Cortes stills on his side computer at work. 131 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.639 Uh, just over and over. We just keep looking at it, like, Wow, 132 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:24.439 what a shot photography of this? Yeah? 133 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.639 And who also shot magnificent Anderson's And I mean really 134 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.680 this and Magnificent Ambersons are the things he's known for 135 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.399 the most. But he was a legendary cinematographer and one 136 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.639 of those kind of you know, uh guys who was 137 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.279 a fixture of the at the A s C. And stuff. 138 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.360 He's very part of a big part of the cinematographer society. 139 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:50.879 But uh, but uh, well, Steve, what what about you? 140 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:52.079 How'd you come to this? 141 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.879 It first came on my radar because I had read 142 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:58.160 Spike Lee's book about Do the Right Thing, and yeah, 143 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:03.560 he talked about build None with the with the Love 144 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.920 and Hate forefinger Rings. So I got to see part 145 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.879 of it at some point in eighty nine or ninety 146 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.000 or whatever that was. But I never actually got to 147 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.079 watch the whole thing until a few a few months ago, 148 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:23.759 and watched it and was just obsessed that

I think 149 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.399 I've watched it four times since then, just just tried 150 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:31.240 to absorb all the gorgeous ambiguities that run through it. 151 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.759 Ian I had seen this maybe about ten years ago 152 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.120 on TCM sign note. I don't know if you guys 153 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.519 have that thing where you think of like twenty ten 154 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:46.439 or twenty fifteen and you realized that s like ten 155 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.360 or fifteen years ago and that yes, existential show goes 156 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:53.360 down your spine. Yeah, that's happened me a few times. 157 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:58.959 But yeah, seeing on TCM, and I knew its reputation, 158 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.000 and I knew it was the only movie direct by 159 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:05.600 Charles Laughton, and this is one of those movies I 160 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:07.639 think a planning the Aid sort of Saturday Night Keever, 161 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.720 which I call parody proof, which it's still good even 162 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.759 if you've seen the paries of it. And in my case, 163 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:18.240 I had seen I had seen Do the Right Thing 164 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.600 with Love and Hate, which is more of a tribute 165 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.839 than Pardy, and also on The Simpsons when Sideshow Bob 166 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.439 had l U because they have four fingers, and then 167 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:32.799 h at with a little thing over the a. Even 168 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.440 with those in my mind, the film still had all in. 169 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:42.600 Robert Mission's performance still packed a punch literally and sometimes agreed. 170 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.960 I first saw it it much like Gabe, my son 171 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:48.240 in high school, and I've talked about this before. We 172 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:53.000 were very fortunate around Northwestern University there was this wonderful 173 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.159 second run and cult movie theater called the Varsity. The 174 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:00.759 music backs in the city still does basically the same 175 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:03.399 kind of programming, and that's where I first saw it, 176 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:05.919 and I I prior to that, I had seen the 177 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:11.759 infamous Love Hate, you know, hand wrestle thing, which is 178 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.000 great and I mean, really is the signatory or thing. 179 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:15.559 And I'm sure I saw it on like a Best 180 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.720 of Hollywood sort of clip show or whatever, so that 181 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.360 intrigued me. 182 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:21.200 But then when the movie came around, you know. 183 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.720 Yeah, it took my date and it was great because again, 184 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:25.919 you know, we were used to every now and then 185 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:29.960 the abusive Father movie, but this really was kind of 186 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.440 the first of the modern age. Like you guys said, 187 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.759 it was well ahead of its time. Before we go 188 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:38.279 to everybody else. Talking a couple of times, Don Lenza 189 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:39.080 points out. 190 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.279 The movie is not in the AFI Top one hundred. 191 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.240 That's surprising because it is a class Yeah, I really, yeah, talk. 192 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.639 But I mean why would you know, like we certainly 193 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:50.759 can't go by something like that, you know, I mean 194 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.720 the great movies are usually things that are you know, 195 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:55.960 that are at least slightly fringy. 196 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:59.039 But AFI usually does you know, like. 197 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:02.039 Like updates for the times, any critical reception of the times, 198 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:02.360 of course. 199 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:02.799 Yeah. 200 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.279 And also like I literally just finished the Spinal Tap 201 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.000 book and saw the sequel and everything, and Ryaner says 202 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.799 how thrilled he was that it got picked, you know, 203 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:13.759 for one hundred best movies, And you know that's I mean, 204 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:15.799 it is a great comedy movie and stuff, but certainly 205 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.080 wasn't called movie you know whatever. 206 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.759 But anyway, still only one hundred of them. 207 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:24.000 Giduroh wants to know if any of us have read 208 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:25.279 the book by Davis Grubb. 209 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:26.320 Yeah. 210 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.200 I went trying to dig trying to dig a copy up, 211 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.120 and all he was able to find was an excerpt 212 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:38.360 online which actually kind of delivered the thesis of the 213 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.919 book in a single sentence, very very early in the book. 214 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.559 But I got to read stuff just the first few 215 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.159 pages the book opens up. The first shot in the 216 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:55.240 book is the chalk mark drawing of the hangman that 217 00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:04.639 the kids are using to to tease our heroes. And mom, uh, Mom, 218 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:10.240 rather than just being the completely passive Shelley Winters, one 219 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:14.159 of the first things she does is is uh make 220 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:18.919 her is make her son swear to never tell Pearl 221 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:24.000 what happened to her dad. And then here's the line 222

00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:27.159 that that just just haunts me, and clearly. 223 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.840 It's it's kind of the thesis of the book. 224 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:37.840 He describes. Grubb describes that's that compact between mom and 225 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.279 and and and her son as the soul and monstrous 226 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.759 truth which loomed in his small world, like a fairy 227 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:47.519 book ogre. 228 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:49.519 Well, there you go. 229 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.399 Yeah, I mean, and that's one like one of the 230 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.000 things about this movie is and it's often kind of lumped. 231 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.519 It's often thought of as film noir, right, and it's 232 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.759 not right like it's it's certainly you know, it has 233 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:08.159 lighting that is reminiscent of that, but it's it's that's 234 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.960 also just coming from the German expressionist the influence. And 235 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.559 I don't think it's a noir at all. I think 236 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.159 it's like a sort of fairy tale. It doesn't really fit, 237 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.960 you know, the way people talk about noir for the 238 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:23.200 most part, like it's it doesn't it doesn't. 239 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.360 I mean, apart from John feeling. 240 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.159 Sad about it, it doesn't actually have a terrible you know, 241 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.279 uh you know, two downbeat of an ending. I mean 242 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.240 there's there, there is some Catharsis and you know, I 243 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.000 mean it's uh, well. 244 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.000 It violates the you could say, the number one rule 245 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.519 of film noir, the fact that you're following to innocent characters. 246 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.519 In the film noir, usually no one is truly sure innocent, 247 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.919 and here you have the like children. 248 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.200 Although look, and I mean we haven't actually talked about 249 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.559 what the movie is about, I mean, the it's uh. 250 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:05.279 Robert Ritcham plays a preacher character, a kind of self 251 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:10.320 uh made preacher who uh who finds out that the 252 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:14.039 that that the father of the two main kids had 253 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.559 had stolen some money and uh and hidden it someplace. 254 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:18.759 So he's sort of on a. 255 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.519 Mission to find that find that money and the you know, 256 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.360 and the the son. His his whole thing is about, 257 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:31.000 uh about never telling where it is and uh like 258 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.799 in I guess though now that now that Ian points 259 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.919 it out, I think he is a little bit guilty, right, 260 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.600 He's uh, he's participating in this. He's like, uh, you know, 261 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:47.639 in the crime and you know, and he's uh uh 262 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:49.879 you know. I mean, it's from a kid's point of 263 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:53.240 view of keeping an oath to his dad, but he's 264 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.600 basically implicated in a crime. The movie doesn't really deal 265 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.679 with it in that way because we we think of 266 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.000 him doing something kind of noble, but really it's protecting money, 267 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.960 you know, which is kind of a questionable thing. So 268 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.639 I'm I'm inching back to film noir a little bit, 269 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:11.720 but still. 270 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.879 Yeah, I mean no, absolutely as far as too, you know, 271 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:17.559 dead guy with money guy trying to find the money 272 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:19.879 and everything kind of that noir thing and everything. But 273 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:22.279 I wonder regarding the very very end and the happy 274 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.840 ending or whatever, the Christmas thing and everything, it almost 275 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.039 felt tacked on where maybe the studio or somebody and 276 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:31.679 I don't know if this is true or not, went 277 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.639 to lot and said, wow, that's that's really doubt. Can 278 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:36.960 we can we brighten it up in a different way, 279 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:40.120 like how Women of the Ear of All movies comes 280 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.559 to mind, where the wacky Oh my god, you know, 281 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.559 Captain Eppern is so brilliant and what an amazing woman, 282 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.360 but she has this Lucy Ricardo moment in the kitchen 283 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.240 where she can't handle just being a you know, domesticated 284 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:53.360 wife and everything. 285 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.000 Oh silly, silly, silly kate, you know. 286 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:59.159 And and it just especially I mean, I love the 287 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.519 impact at the and the courtroom and everything where you know, 288 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.879 John's on the standards, so devastated for him, what he's 289 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.440 what he's gone through, and it's just like, man, it 290 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.840 would have really been powerful to the end, you know. 291 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:12.679 I mean, I don't know, I. 292 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:16.639 Mean, I absolutely get that argument. And it is a 293 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.600 really idiosyncratic ending, I mean, and one that I usually 294 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:21.879 don't even remember is

there. 295 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.840 But at the same time, I think it kind. 296 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.440 Of works in the weird scheme of the movie that 297 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.840 the movie begins and I will let other people talk, 298 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:36.639 but the movie begins with Lillian Gish talking directly to 299 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.799 the camera, talking to us the audience basically as children. 300 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.759 And you know, and I feel like so much of 301 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.039 what this movie is is about the point of view 302 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:52.600 of these children and their way of interpreting a scary world. 303 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.000 Yeah, if the kids sort of if the kids are adults, 304 00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:57.440 you've got no country for old men. 305 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:02.120 Yeah, yeah, sure, but they and and also you know, 306 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.279 Gish and even in the middle of the movie, you know, 307 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.840 kind of consoles John and it's like, you know, children 308 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.600 are strong, you know, they not to endure these things, 309 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.480 and so we're back to that at the end. So 310 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:16.039 I mean it works, you know fine, and everything from 311 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.720 a man. 312 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.480 From a purely uh just now this is more cynical 313 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.120 and and I don't think that's where they were going 314 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.279 with the in the story of the movie. But I 315 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.440 think the fact you got to realize how big a 316 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:33.000 thing it is to have a serial killer preacher. It's 317 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:36.919 this main character, and how scared they must have been 318 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:40.799 that this thing wasn't gonna show all over the country, 319 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:42.720 So they have to have missus. 320 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:48.799 Cooper as this other the real religious figure that's his foil. 321 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.919 Basically, he sees through his bullshit immediately, doesn't doesn't even 322 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.360 listen to his his uh right hand left hand story, 323 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.039 you know, like she she knows a faker from a 324 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.399 mile away, and so does John, and so did John, 325 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.400 and so does John's dad, Ben Harper, like they're all 326 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.640 kind of the same character who just immediately see Harry 327 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:10.599 Powell for what he is. 328 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.200 But that but it's satisfied because she's she's the only 329 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.359 one who really in his world, who who who validates 330 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.240 this you know, uh, this he's been running. No one 331 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.720 believes him. You know, no one believes believes either of them. Uh, 332 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.640 And that that moment where she just believes him, she 333 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.279 looks into his eyes, believes him and goes, no, you're right, 334 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:35.720 he's not he's not your dad, and he's not a preacher, 335 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.000 and that, you know, like, uh, it's I mean, that's 336 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:39.880 it's there's so much build up to it. I think 337 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:41.119 it's a really satisfying moment. 338 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:43.680 It's also interesting that she's the only woman in the 339 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:47.039 film that doesn't just go gaga over him. 340 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:50.160 Everybody else does, but she does not. 341 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.079 Yeah. 342 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:57.480 Yeah, the movie really is almost like a mix between 343 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.000 a noir in a fairy tale, which is a very 344 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.640 strange mix. But throughout the film there's a lot of 345 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.240 kind of touches of fairy tales. One of the instead 346 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.000 of a wicked stepmother, Harry Powell becomes a wicked stepfather. 347 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:14.880 But that sense of being a child, I know there's 348 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.160 a monster. The adults don't believe me, which is the 349 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.599 drama of the at least the first half of the 350 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.079 film is such a primal fairy tale thing, and that's 351 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.400 what makes us. One of the things that makes this 352 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:33.160 film so fascinating is that it mixes, you know, real 353 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:37.359 drama with that you know, fairy tale. Groom's fairy tale 354 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:37.920 kind of thing. 355 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:39.240 Yeah and dream. 356 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.440 Should we bumble through a recap for people who haven't 357 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:48.720 seen it, Well, I'll do a little bit. I'll pass 358 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:54.039 it off wherever. Okay, we open with Harry Palell, the 359 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.400 evil preacher, you know, cruising along in his car talking 360 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.200 to God about where's my next widow? With the money 361 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.920 hidden behind the sugar bowl. You know, so he right 362 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:06.839 away there's no hiding the fact that he is the 363 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:13.160 bad guy and he gets the The other interesting thing 364 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.440 where I say parts of the movie are way ahead 365 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.079 of their time is he gets nabbed in a burlesque 366 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.680 call and he is watching a woman and he is furious. 367 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.359 He's gripping his switchblade in his

pocket with his hate 368 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.680 hand and everything, and he's he goes on a quick 369 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:35.839 little weird rant about women with their perfumes and their curls, 370 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.839 like he's got some deep seated issue, and we never 371 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:39.720 get that story. 372 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.559 And also, but in that scene you get the the 373 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.319 switch blade going through his yeah yeah answer or whatever, 374 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.720 the most kind of violently phallic image you're gonna find. 375 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.319 Yeah, Which is the first side not to go too 376 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.960 much on tangent yet, is that sexual repression is also 377 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:02.359 so a big part of It's strange that on one 378 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.960 hand it's a kid's fairy tail, but on the other hand, 379 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.440 sexual repression is also another major of this film. 380 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:13.079 Yeah yeahs him in there because he stole a car. 381 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.119 He gets thrown in jail, and he is in jail, 382 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.279 finds himself on the top bunk of Peter Graves, who 383 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:25.640 is John and Pearl's dad. Ben Harper and he's muttering 384 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.799 in his sleep, and Mitcham's down there like hanging over listening, 385 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.640 and luckily Peter Graves wakes up just in time and 386 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.400 socks And because Peter Graves is a big guy, and 387 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.839 like to have someone who can knock Mitch him out, 388 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.680 you got to have like James Arness's brother in this movie. 389 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:50.720 And so anyway, like now Mitcham is on to the 390 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.200 fact that there's ten thousand dollars he hid somewhere and 391 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.000 he's about to get hung by his neck till he is. 392 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.400 Dead, as they say, and uh so. 393 00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:03.480 He can't wait to get out and get on the 394 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.079 road and go find the family. So then we pick 395 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:14.640 up uh at the beloved Spoons Cafe. We're Icy Spoon 396 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:20.400 and her her poor husband Walter dish out ice cream and. 397 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.319 Shelley Winters works for them. 398 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:27.319 I know that it's named after the people who own it, 399 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:28.920 but the fact that it's just called it's an ice 400 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.400 cream place called Spoons makes me just feel like it's 401 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.640 in the hipster part of town and like, you know. 402 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.279 The granddaughter turned it into a very trendy Portland It. 403 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:40.359 Is a very Portland

name. 404 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.160 It's got weird in it. And like meat. 405 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.160 And Okay, So I just wanted to get to this 406 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.880 part because I figured John was gonna have worked out 407 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:58.000 his Evelyn uh voice by now, because she is a 408 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:00.279 classic character actor trope. 409 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:07.000 Uh winteres Shelley, No, no, Lynn, it's. 410 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.240 Miss missus Spoon's rather you know, I'm not ready with 411 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.079 my uh my mo you come. 412 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:13.960 In here, girl. 413 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.200 You know everything everything's female foghorn leghorn with. 414 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.119 Oh yeah, okay, let's just go around the horn and 415 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.640 everybody has to try their impression of yeah, everybody is 416 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.720 having the most fun maybe, but she's definitely giving it 417 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:29.359 her college best. 418 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.160 Well and again it's the it's you know, trying to 419 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.880 portray that that small town kind of thing, so you 420 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:35.880 do need big. 421 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.160 Broad yeah, but I think it's also it's also that 422 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.119 Charles Wawton directed This is fucking huge. 423 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:44.640 He's a he's a. 424 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:49.160 Very odd performer, right, you know, and uh like, and 425 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.000 he clearly was pushing everybody to go big with stuff. 426 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.119 It's not a it's not a subtle movie performance in 427 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:56.799 any way. 428 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.720 Well, yeah, you gotta you gotta do all these big 429 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.200 swings or it doesn't work, like because they like when 430 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:06.559 you start getting into the German expressionist kind of barns 431 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.680 and stuff, and the inside of the upstairs bedroom and 432 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.359 everything is like it's it's. 433 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.920 All heightened kid memory. Yeah. 434 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:20.160 So I found myself wondering all throughout about the choice, 435 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:26.680 uh to make Shelley Winter's character such a zombie. I 436 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.839 mean she she's like one of uh one of Dracula's 437 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:32.119 thralls or something. 438 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.839 Yeah, that's That's That's what I was saying earlier about 439 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.400 like all the women that react to him, Like remember 440 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.559 the teenager was like gaga over him after like five minutes, 441 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.680 the little girl was goga, the missus Spoon was. So 442 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.359 I think that there was something that was kind of 443 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.480 saying was that there was something about him that made 444 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.240 women kind of lose their minds a little bit. 445 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.920 Yeah, they call a blue Beard at the end, but 446 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:56.960 really he's Dracula. 447 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:01.240 Yeah, and Shelley Winters is get Shelley Winters gets a 448 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.519 weirdly uh kind of realistic part for I think because 449 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:10.599 she's sort of shell shocks, you know, or her husband's dead. Yeah, 450 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:13.440 she's on her on with the kids. Uh ic he 451 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.079 keeps telling her what to do with her life. Uh, 452 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.160 you know, like here's some guy who just walked up 453 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.319 trust him. 454 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:25.759 And uh, Harry Robert Mitcham. He doesn't reveal that he's 455 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.119 a prisoner. He says he was a chaplain at the prison, 456 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.720 which is why he knows about Ben Harper. 457 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:34.680 I'm just sorry. 458 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.799 But as stylized as her as, Shelley Winter's performance is 459 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:42.440 the uh, there's the moment when she figures out that 460 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.799 that he really is after the money and it and 461 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:46.880 it just plays on her face and she does this 462 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.920 kind of like little. 463 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:50.880 Traumatized tick thing. 464 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.599 I think is incredibly naturalistic and kind of powerful after 465 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.799 the heightened performance that she gave up until that point. 466 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:00.519 Well, yeah, I mean that's the thing. 467 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.920 I you know, I never give her enough credit for 468 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.160 being as great of an actress as she was, because sadly, 469 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:11.240 my first exposure was mob Barker on Batman and Interested Loud. 470 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:15.519 She's great in that and also beside the Adventure, those 471 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.640 literally are the first two things of hers I ever saw. 472 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:19.480 And then I'd see her on the Dinah Shore talk 473 00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:22.319 show and well, you know, you want to ask her 474 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.119 and it's like, all right, this woman is so contained 475 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.480 and like you said, Gab, when she realizes that, well, 476 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.000 first of all, Lord Please send me the right man, 477 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:35.920 because I made a mistake with my first husband. Please 478 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:39.160 show me the way. So she wants salvation, who bettered 479

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:43.960 against salvation from than this chaplain who also is very charismatic. 480 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:46.839 And man, I'll tell you when she's ready to consummate 481 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:49.279 the marriage. And I love that we get to say consummate, 482 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:53.279 you know. And and the way he rejects her. Yeah, man, 483 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.480 that boy. You know, uh, doctor Freud, I think someone's 484 00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.720 waiting for you is we make sure the couch is open, 485 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:02.680 but also her reject And then I love a way 486 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:05.240 to go, Jeff, because Jeff's want to grab this image. 487 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:08.839 She's ready to die or ready for salvation. She's already 488 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:13.319 in the corpse position. She knows what's coming. Yeah, she's 489 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:14.279 just me. 490 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:15.359 Yeah. 491 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:19.720 And that whole thing where he you know, uh shames 492 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.680 her for what with this, Yeah, everything about it. 493 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:29.720 That's that whole thing. It's like she's uh. 494 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.000 You know, like I just think it's it's like a 495 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:36.119 Martin Scorsese level uncomfortable between human sort of thing where 496 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:40.519 he's you know, he's doing it's so like you know, 497 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.119 in in most every circumstance you would imagine, you know, 498 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.720 he's he's manipulating her. He wants sex from her, he 499 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.200 wants to and it, and he's manipulating her by like 500 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.720 keeping her at a distance. 501 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.559 He clearly has issues with sex that he can't deal with. 502 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:57.480 Like, uh, it's uh it, you know, there's there's a 503 00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:59.640 lot of layers of perversity. 504 00:26:59.079 --> 00:26:59.599 In this thing. 505 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:02.839 Yeah, and I mean again, nineteen fifties, I thought that 506 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.240 was the you know, Reagan era of common sweeten. 507 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.440 Don't get me wrong, I. 508 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:09.519 Realized God's Lit, The Laker and things like that were 509 00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:13.200 also happening alongside all the nice calm stuff and everything. 510 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:15.640 But yeah, again, this is why it's so you know, 511 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.400 beyond its time. Go ahead, ALP, pardon me. 512 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:18.200 I have a question. 513 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.839 Did y'all find it unusual that this was it fifty 514 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.400 five movie but it was set during the depression. 515 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:27.640 That doesn't seem typical to me from that era. 516 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:30.160 I think that's true. I mean, I don't think there 517 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:32.519 were a lot of things. I mean, I guess, I 518 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.880 mean there probably were, but like, but I think that 519 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.559 the it's weird that it's set during depression, but it's 520 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.559 like this kind of spooky depression, like it like we 521 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.480 never get a lot of the stuff that you like, 522 00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.079 the normal stuff that you would get to indicate that, 523 00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:55.480 you know what I mean, like breadlines and whatever and everything. 524 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:58.079 It's all from one point of view, you know, but 525 00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.119 it's rural. 526 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.480 So like that makes sense, but like it's the fact 527 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:05.079 that you've got like children that are alone everywhere. 528 00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:09.079 Yes, yeah, and. 529 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.440 To me, so yeah, I think that's the strongest part. 530 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.960 When they're in the boat they go get the potatoes. 531 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:17.400 From Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, And that's the thing. 532 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.279 And I would imagine during the depression that that is 533 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.119 kind of the rural depression experience. So yeah, other than 534 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.359 you know, grapes of wrath obviously, but yeah. 535 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:28.599 There just aren't depression. 536 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:31.519 There aren't as many depression signifiers in it as if 537 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.039 you think for something that is setting it up that way. 538 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:39.519 And I think an important thing for the for the 539 00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:46.319 studios at this point would be Dad robbing a bag 540 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.599 or robbing the safe or whatever wherever was he got 541 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:54.480 the money from would seem more forgivable with the context 542 00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.559 of the depression than it would in the context of 543 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.559 prosperous America in nineteen fifty five. 544 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.440 Yeah, true, absolutely. 545 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:05.519 I wonder how Lawton got the gig, did I don't 546 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:06.799 know if you researched that well. 547 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.440 So he like he had you know, he's getting he's 548 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:14.480 deep in his career, right, he was born in eighteen 549 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.400 ninety nine, so like, yeah, the and he uh he 550 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.599 had and wasn't in the greatest of health, and you know, 551 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:23.200 he was getting to the point where he couldn't just 552 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.640 act all the time, right, he would uh. The producer 553

00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.640 of this sing, Paul Gregory, was a guy who had 554 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.519 been he'd been an actor and then then became an 555 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.920 agent and uh, and he kind of like, uh, he 556 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.720 saw Lawton reading from the Bible on TV. He was 557 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:40.519 he was also in New York, and he basically just 558 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:42.759 got in a cab, went over to the studio and 559 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.319 met Lawton on the way out and kind of dagged him. 560 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.880 Was like, hey, you're you're uh, you're leaving a million 561 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.000 dollars on the table every year, and he's like, what 562 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.640 do you mean? Like and so he ended up convincing 563 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.240 him to do a book tour, like a tour, like 564 00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:02.559 a tour of readings from Bible, right, and and like 565 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.960 they kind of became partners, you know, business partners through that, 566 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.640 and and then ultimately ended up Lawton ended up directing 567 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:16.000 The kne Mutney Court Martial on Broadway, and which was 568 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.400 it's him transitioning into directing. 569 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:23.279 He really hadn't directed prior to all this, so like when. 570 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.960 You know, but like was trying to transition into being 571 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.119 a film director as well, because like his his opportunities 572 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:32.880 for constantly acting and stuff. 573 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.559 It just wasn't you know, that point in his career anymore. Uh. 574 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.519 And And I think that it was a book that 575 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.839 Lawton had admired. It was a relatively recent best selling 576 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.240 type book at the time, and it was something he admired. 577 00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:52.200 It was something that that But I suspect and I 578 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.839 think that this movie, as much as there's an enormous 579 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:59.119 amount of great stuff and nuanced stuff and interesting stuff, 580 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.640 I think this movie is also kind of awkwardly made. 581 00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:04.440 It was made quickly. There's a lot of stuff. 582 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:08.319 In it that you know that sometimes is dreamy but 583 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:12.519 often is also kind of you know, I don't they 584 00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.880 ran out of time to shoot something right Like it's 585 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.680 you know, there are freeze frames for you know, for 586 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.920 exteriors or things that just that that our desperation moves 587 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.160 in the editing room in order to to to make 588 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.000 this work together. 589 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.359 I not. I there is one thing out there. 590 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.559 That's like two hours of For whatever reason, they printed 591 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.599 everything for this movie right like you know used to be, 592 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.039 you know, you only print the good takes right on 593 00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.960 film because it's expensive. But for whatever reason, on this 594 00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:44.720 low budget movie, they printed everything. 595 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:46.359 So there are tons. 596 00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:54.279 Of extended takes, out takes, him Lawton directing from off camera. 597 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:56.839 There's two hours of this stuff flown around there. You 598 00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.200 can find it on YouTube. It's also on the Criterion disc. 599 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.440 And and like, I think that part of what makes 600 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.680 this movie so interesting in a way is because Lawton 601 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:12.279 was not a skilled director in a film director or 602 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:15.680 a visualist in certain way. But he's working with Cortez, 603 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:18.880 who has his ideas. He's working with James ag the 604 00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:22.240 screenwriter who you know, who apparently wrote like a three 605 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.519 hundred page script that that Lawton personally then had to 606 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:26.599 cut down. Uh. 607 00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:29.200 There's a lot of interesting elements that come together. And 608 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:30.079 I feel like it's one. 609 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:34.319 Of those movies that that almost exists by mistake. I 610 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.359 don't I think that it is a Charles Lawton movie, 611 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:38.119 but I you know, but I also think that it's 612 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.079 not like, uh, it's it's not something that was perfectly crafted. 613 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:46.519 I think it's something that came together. Yeah, that I did. 614 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:50.680 Listen to all the things where Lawton does line reads 615 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:55.559 with the kids, yeah, and uh, and that's where he's 616 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.440 had a little he has. He clearly like he's nice 617 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.599 to the little girl, Earl the Pearl, who was a 618 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:07.920 kid who won a contest for singing a song, and 619 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.680 that she's the Honey Boo Boo of the fifties. 620 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.440 And she's like, Uh, don't say God bless the kid, no, 621 00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:18.000 please that she get it. 622 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:18.599 I get it. 623 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:20.799 I just hate she's kind Yeah, that was that was 624 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.759 kind of her weird place. And clearly they had planned 625

00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.680 for her to sing the lullaby and then they didn't 626 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:28.920 even use it. Yeah, they they dubbed in someone else 627 00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.319 and uh and I but when you're listening to the thing, 628 00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:38.359 he's very sweet with her and giving her direction, and 629 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.519 he's really hard on the boy. He's just like it's 630 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:44.839 kind of it's kind of painful to listen to, and 631 00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:49.200 because like the kid doesn't have the director's big picture 632 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:49.920 of anything. 633 00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.680 He just knows what he knows in his lines and. 634 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.319 Everything, and and Lawton's getting kind of fed up with 635 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.880 him and uh. 636 00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:58.559 Sort of is uh. 637 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.119 I really felt on some of those, I'm like, oh, man, 638 00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:06.519 just like I don't know, just like, let somebody ask 639 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.679 ask Mitcham to talk to the kids or something, you know, Like. 640 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.119 I had heard in the past that Mitcham was the 641 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.679 one who like interacted with the kids a lot, that 642 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.280 Lawton was was less. 643 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.480 Engaged with those. Those say a completely different thing, though. 644 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:25.800 I Mean, he is right there and weirdly constantly give 645 00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:28.519 feeding lines to everybody, Like he seems to be feeding 646 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.039 all of the off camera lines no matter what. I 647 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.360 don't know how they scheduled this thing that nobody was 648 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.199 there to give off camera lines. But like, but he's 649 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.360 I mean I think that he probably just wanted. 650 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:41.679 To do it. But it's but he is really harsh 651 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:42.280 with the kid. 652 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:47.719 I mean, there's the the the really weirdly interesting thing 653 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.519 of the way that the kid reacts to his dad 654 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:54.159 being arrested. And then when when Mitcham is arrested at 655 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:58.000 the end, after terrorizing for him for the entire time, 656 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:02.239 he uh, he like internalizes exactly the same way as 657 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:03.320 he did when his father. 658 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.559 Was was arrested. But the but the. 659 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.559 Thing where he grabs his stomach, you can see in 660 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:15.719 in the. 661 00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:16.639 The outtakes that that lot. 662 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.039 Is fucking punching him in the stomach right before before 663 00:35:20.039

--> 00:35:22.400 the take every single time, or at least kind of 664 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:24.679 slapping him on the stomach to get him to react 665 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.199 that way. I don't know how ethical a lot of 666 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.440 this stuff is, but you. 667 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.880 Know what, what's John's name? 668 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.719 What's the actor's name, Ben Chapin, Ben Chad like chaplain 669 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.960 without the chaplain excuse me, Okay, it's weird. And maybe 670 00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:43.920 hearing all this about the outtakes and everything, he was 671 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.199 on this great YouTube channel that I adore called a 672 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.039 Word on westerns. Oh yeah, it's this producer Rob Word 673 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.199 and he talks to all these character actors and leads 674 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:58.320 that made Western movies that are still around, and he's 675 00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:01.360 on there talking about he was I believe he was 676 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.400 Red Writer's sidekick in the old Red Writer. Cereal did 677 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.440 a lot of TV as well, But I really don't 678 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.400 remember them talking at all about Knight of the Hunter. 679 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.960 And I wonder if Lawton's you know, acting towards him 680 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.079 and traumatized him in some way that he's like, yeah, 681 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:19.159 I don't want to talk about that, but he's really 682 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:21.440 good and I've seen a lot of his work and 683 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.920 he always was this solid kid and they I mean, 684 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:24.320 he had a. 685 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:26.519 Lot of heavy lifting in this movie for being a 686 00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:30.320 kid came to play. I mean, he was great. It's 687 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:33.000 some tough parts, like. 688 00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.519 Like when he's he's doing the I was reading since 689 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.039 Hardman gave us the script and I was reading that 690 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:42.840 like it describes him just shouting no or whatever when 691 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.519 he when they capture Harry Powell, Uh, like he did 692 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.119 with his dad. But what what he's doing and it's 693 00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.400 clearly Lawton dricking and he's trying to do a kind 694 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:56.239 of almost inward hollow you know, like but it's hard. 695 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.639 It's a hard thing to get a kid actor to do. 696 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.039 Yeah, and he's yeah, and you can there's there's stuff 697 00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:04.559 where you can hear Lawton off camera and you know, 698 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.639 saying to him, you know, you know, uh smile like 699 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.400 it's a like like you're in pain or something like that. 700 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:13.440 Like it's a I can't remember exactly what the words are, 701 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.039 but over and over again, like you know, to a child, 702 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.320 like and he's kind of trying to understand what it 703 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:21.320 is and not quite getting there. But I mean, like 704 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.199 you know, uh, and and I imagine that Lawton is 705 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.920 picturing something even bigger than what the kid is giving him, Right, 706 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:28.679 I think that what I mean, I think what the 707 00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:30.480 kid gave him was was really good. 708 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:30.760 Though. 709 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:33.679 I mean, if anything, the awkward bits of it are 710 00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.719 often about how they covered it. 711 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:36.920 I mean, everything is. 712 00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:41.079 All when he finally covers his mouth then like that 713 00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:44.800 all took too long, that's but and you know. 714 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:48.719 And looking at uh, looking looking at all that that stuff, 715 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:54.360 it felt like they probably shot too much coverage of ever, 716 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:56.840 of all the a lot of those dialogue scenes and 717 00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.000 a lot of you know, a lot of stuff, the 718 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.280 stuff that Lawton wanted to focus on, and then ran 719 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.840 out of time for some of the other stuff that 720 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:03.119 wasn't as fun for him to do. 721 00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:04.639 That's what my guess is about it. 722 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.000 Because there's lots of setups that are never used in 723 00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:11.119 the movie. There's lots of you know, there's close ups 724 00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.360 that they never used. They often stick with big kind 725 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:20.360 of you know, uh, priscenium type masters, you know, and 726 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.519 and never cut into all that stuff. I think he 727 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.320 shot tons of the actors that he didn't need. 728 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.679 We should probably get to the big murder, because because 729 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:33.519 I bothered to learn how to screenshot on Amazon. So 730 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.960 I we're going to get there? I think no, but 731 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.559 go ahead. Yeah, well I hated the whole thing. 732 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.000 He grab it and then it's like I got nothing, 733 00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:44.920 But now I know what did turn off graphic accelerator. 734 00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:47.599 That's the key. Good and uh and then you can 735 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.480 grab the picture or whatever. You know what that means. 736 00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.360 But I'll figure it out. 737

00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:53.960 Yeah I don't either, but all right, it's in chrome 738 00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:57.880 and uh that's I watched that. My computer is gonna 739 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.599 shut down in the middle of this for saying how 740 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.000 to screw with chrome. 741 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.639 Whatever. 742 00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:08.519 So anyway, like it does seem like, uh, Harry Powell 743 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:12.159 is like it's it's eating it him. He can't wait 744 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.639 to kill Shelley Winners. And uh, just the fact that 745 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:18.880 he's having to leave her alive so long seems to 746 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.960 be just eating them, eating him to death until he 747 00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:26.840 finally in that one night, Uh, they do the shot 748 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.960 of their bedroom and it's supposed to be up in 749 00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:33.360 an attic, but it's this enormous, you know, just like 750 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:38.039 weird twisting uh ceiling that it's. 751 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.440 Like his it's like his church. And that's the way 752 00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:42.960 I read it. Oh, I think so. 753 00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:46.199 And it's and then and then he you. 754 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:49.159 Don't have the picture that crap I thought, I thought 755 00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:52.119 that was it. The no, there's the shot where he's 756 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:59.559 with the kind of yeah, yeah, I'll uh. But uh. 757 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.440 But this is also where it shifts into very expressionistic 758 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:08.840 stuff and the you know, more so than any time earlier. 759 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:13.400 And uh and obviously German expressionism was a was an 760 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.559 influence on this. But the but I think silent movies 761 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:19.079 are in general or a big influence on this. 762 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:20.079 That kind of. 763 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.599 There's a lot of uh, I mean not only kind 764 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.400 of obvious visual things, the thing we're talking about, or 765 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.119 the there's a shot that Iris is in at one point, 766 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.199 which was an incredibly old fashioned like kind of I 767 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:36.199 think at the time people would have thought of laughably 768 00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:40.400 old fashioned thing to do. Uh and uh and this 769 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:44.599 was this was Cortes's idea and uh Cortes did push 770 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:48.519 the visuals in this direction. But I but they they 771 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:52.400 did go to MoMA or someplace together and watched a 772 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.559 bunch of, uh of silent movies. And and there's a 773 00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:59.719 lot of silent kind of storytelling in this. The the 774 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:07.159 between the train and like her thinking about you know 775 00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.599 about some other you know, having some other husband and 776 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:14.760 then intercut with just like you know, you know, him 777 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:18.840 relentlessly coming towards them, you know, like it's more like 778 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.280 and the way that it's intercut is more like a 779 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:23.480 silent movie than you would do in a in a 780 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:25.440 nineteen fifty five sound film. 781 00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:30.119 And also Lily and Gish, yes coming at the end. 782 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:31.679 She was a huge star. 783 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.320 One are the biggest stars in the world. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 784 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:34.920 oh my god. 785 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.840 Yet but also my cat, she's like a bagoda where 786 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:41.239 you know, this is only twenty you know, thirty maybe 787 00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:45.039 thirty years I guess since her ingenue days and like 788 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.039 you know, she's she looked like this for another thirty years, 789 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:49.920 you know, into the eighties and everything. 790 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:54.039 So here's the looks good in this movie. There we 791 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.280 are sorry late, better late than ever. 792 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.800 And also we haven't given up for one of my 793 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.480 absolute favorite character actors from the thirties, forties and fifties, 794 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:08.079 the great James Gleason Uncle Bertie. Yeah, god, I love 795 00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:10.880 that guy. I love him and everything. Meet John Doe. 796 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.639 Last turn, of course, here comes mister Jordan. But he's 797 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.519 fantastic as Uncle Bertie. And it and it's it's you know, 798 00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.760 I I you know Yeah, it's it's a shame that 799 00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:23.760 Uncle Bertie didn't come to the rescue, but he's an 800 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:24.119 old man. 801 00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.280 I think that's absolutely necessary. It has the fact that, 802 00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.000 you know that it felt like the kid felt like 803 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.320 he had somebody he could turn to, but he didn't 804 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.000 because of that guy's failings. 805 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.719 I mean, a big point of it. 806 00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:36.559 Uh. 807 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:40.679 He says, come to me, something's up and everything, and 808 00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:44.960 then as soon as he sees her underwater in the car, 809 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.960 for some reason, his head goes straight to they're gonna 810 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:52.159 blame me, Like, yeah, this is the first the famous 811 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:54.440 shot or one of

them. 812 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:57.239 Yeah, Shelley right there, everybody. 813 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.199 Yeah, I do want I mean, I I don't know 814 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:01.599 if there's more word of this in the novel, but 815 00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:04.840 the him jumping to the they're gonna blame me, and then 816 00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.679 him always looking at the at the photo of his 817 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.920 dead wife, it's like, wait. 818 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.920 What happened there? Like what happened to the past? A 819 00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:14.920 few other good movies suggested it. 820 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:20.360 Yeah, but and uh yeah, and and then like briefly 821 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.639 when he's just he's bawling and he's drunk, and he 822 00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:28.039 he briefly describes what you can't see there, the underwater 823 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.000 shot where he talks about her neck being open, like 824 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:34.679 she had another mouth, and it's like, yeah. 825 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:38.000 It's just it's actually pretty revolting a little bit. 826 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:40.199 Yeah, I don't know how they got this shot though, 827 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:41.239 it is pretty amazing. 828 00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:43.599 It's a mannequin. It's a mannequin in a tank. 829 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.800 They they did a Shelley They made a Shelley face, 830 00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:48.480 put it on her. 831 00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:51.360 But that's that's great. That's that's movies. Movies are fake. 832 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.000 That's good stuff. Look and they get it the way 833 00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:57.199 it's shot. Yeah, you know, hats off tot. 834 00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.920 And we were talking about this a little bit before. 835 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.559 And but the when Lawton was developing this and working 836 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.920 on the script and he was reaching out to Davis Grubb, 837 00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:14.159 the novelist, he uh, like he wouldn't the novelist. He 838 00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:18.000 kept drawing things for him instead of replying with the 839 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.800 you know, with like more textured or psychological analysis and uh. 840 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.280 And these drawings were like Lawton fell in love with 841 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.119 these drawings. They're kind of out there. You can see 842 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.920 him on the Criterion disc and there's some places on 843 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:33.880 on YouTube you can see him. Uh and uh, they're 844 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:37.880 actually really interesting and evocative. He basically came up with 845 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.960 that image of the novelist basically came up with that 846 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:46.719 image of the uh well uh of the of her 847 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.480 underwater and the flowing hair and all that sort of stuff. 848

00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:51.440 I mean, it's very similar to what they did. 849 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.119 I like this interesting. 850 00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:58.519 It's a cool style. 851 00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:04.000 Yeah, it's very simple and kind of you know, a 852 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.039 slightly untrained feel to it, but it but it communicates. 853 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:10.440 The ideas and it has has a style to it 854 00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:10.920 though too. 855 00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:11.719 That's interesting. 856 00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.280 Yeah, he was the Jewels fier of his day, and 857 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:18.440 like Jewels five for a multi hyphen that novelist. 858 00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:23.920 Thank you, cartoonist, please my god, absolute man, no question 859 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:26.280 and again give it to get up the lot. And 860 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:28.159 like you said, man, it hit the ball out of 861 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.039 the park and all right, that's enough, man, that's. 862 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.159 Where And once you get through the murder, then it 863 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.800 sets up that whole the dream like travel down the 864 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.800 river store part of the movie that I love so much, 865 00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.079 even though there's stuff that like really doesn't need to 866 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.039 be there. You don't need to see the owl and 867 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:47.800 the frog and all that, like. 868 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.599 You don't need Yes, you do need to see the frog. 869 00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:55.159 You absolutely need to see the frog. 870 00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:56.599 The frog. 871 00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.880 I love I love you see the al at the screen. 872 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:02.760 You know, that's just like you didn't. 873 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:06.039 I've been going back and forth as to whether those 874 00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:11.599 whether those animals are are are symbols of other predators 875 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:15.519 or if they're like animal guardians watching over the kids. 876 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.280 I mean, I think that it's not all of that, 877 00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:20.440 and I think that it's kind of but it but 878 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:23.079 in a kind of dreamy kid kind of way, you know. 879 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:26.599 And you know, and there's also animals that just wouldn't 880 00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:27.920 be there, like the big. 881 00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:30.719 Tortoise and stuff like, they're just not It doesn't make 882 00:46:31.559 --> 00:46:34.960 logical sense, but that's that's helping us in the in 883 00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.360 this this dreamy world, you know, and like taking us 884 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.920 further down into a you know, I mean, as much 885 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.000 as this is from the kid's point of view and 886 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:45.559 it and it has

that fairy tale quality to it, 887 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.199 they're clearly different movements in this this picture, right Like 888 00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.559 it's it starts with a kind of naturalism and you know, 889 00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.679 and it shifts over the course of the stuff with uh, 890 00:46:56.119 --> 00:46:59.559 you know, with the mother and up to her death, 891 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:03.480 and it becomes absolutely you know, a dream world when 892 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:05.920 we're going down the river and going down a river, 893 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.960 all these things are very kind of you know, iconic, 894 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.880 and we obviously talk about Moses later and you know, 895 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:17.079 and the kind of myth the mythological sort of feeling development. 896 00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.000 It helps with the storybook feel with it. And there 897 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.320 is I think there is a great payoff because you see, 898 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.920 there's a bit where you see two rabbits and they're 899 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.480 actually very large in the frame and the kids are 900 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:35.360 very small in the background. And then later on at 901 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:44.039 Rachel the woman at the end, yeah, Oli Gish who 902 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:47.079 she's not really running an orphanage, but she has all 903 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:50.719 these orphans that she takes care of and and she's 904 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.320 kind of come out of farm. I guess there's a 905 00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:58.400 bit where Al is looking at a rabbit and you 906 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:01.360 don't see the kill the rabbit, but you hear it, 907 00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:06.679 and that that predator prey thing pays off and feeds 908 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.119 into the you know, overall same. 909 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.119 I also really for the ten minutes that he's in 910 00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:18.800 the movie at the beginning, another guy that you see 911 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.800 him get jobs like this all through the fifties and sixties, 912 00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:23.199 well before Mission Impossible. 913 00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.639 Peter Graves is still grace. Yeah, and he really I. 914 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:30.400 Mean immediately you know, you know his character even though 915 00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:33.280 he did this robbery and everything you feel for him, 916 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.679 and you know he's trying, he's trying to be the 917 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:37.519 best dad he can despite being a crook. 918 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.159 You know, it's that's that's pretty cool. 919 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:44.320 He's really we can we talk about the Go ahead, Steve, Oh. 920 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.920 I just wanted to do did anybody manage to score 921 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:50.480 a copy of the nineteen ninety one TV remake? 922 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:56.639 No, okay, I watched last night. This was I was 923 00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:59.360 going to wait to talk about that. He brought it 924 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.159 up in that as well. Go ahead, Uh, well, uh, 925 00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:06.480 you know who do you think who? Whoo? 926 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:08.840 Who would you go to if you thought we got 927 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:12.599 to recast Robert mitchm in one of his most iconic performances, 928 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.320 Richard Richard Chamberlain. 929 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.480 Uh like, yes, which is bizarre. 930 00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:24.119 He's like wearing this handlebar mustache and it's his had 931 00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:28.199 like his hair slick back. He looks like he maybe 932 00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:31.559 had plastic surgery a little too soon before this job 933 00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:36.159 and uh and he uh like and it but it's 934 00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.159 set in the present of the you know, of the 935 00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:40.760 time sort of. It just not very well dealt with 936 00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:44.639 and uh and it's it's look, it's not good. The 937 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:48.440 dad is played by by the guy who plays the 938 00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:52.079 the the preacher who in Deadwood in the first season, 939 00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:55.800 you know, the who ends up if anybody's seen Deadwood, 940 00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:58.800 who who has the you know, the aneurysm or whatever 941 00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:00.880 that over the course of it. 942 00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:02.320 And you know he's decent. 943 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.320 But it's but the kid is like fourteen, the boys 944 00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:11.880 like fourteen, and it doesn't none if it's good, but like, 945 00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:13.880 I don't know, it was sort of. I mean, it's 946 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.639 it's interesting as a counterpoint. It's interesting to see the 947 00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:19.119 different choices they made that work very good, you know, 948 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.119 like thinking they're modernizing it. 949 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:24.480 Chamberlain made a lot of those TV movies in mini 950 00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:27.000 series and stuff. Well, sure, yeah, I mean this is 951 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.480 this is you know this show. You know, yeah, this 952 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:33.280 is ten years later. No, you know, it's that's ironic 953 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:37.480 because I know I watched last year his Bourne Identity, 954 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:40.920 which is much more faithful to the Ludlum book than 955 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.800 the movies the Damon movies are and everything. But it 956 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:46.960 was it was very interesting seeing Richard Chamberlain and the 957 00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:47.760 Boorne identity. 958 00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:53.000 Sure, speaking of the Peter Graves of it all, did 959

00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:58.239 anyone see in the Criterion the edition there is a 960 00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:02.440 deleted scene that was is staged on The Ed Sullivan 961 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:08.760 Show between Graves and Winters. There's I've never heard of this, 962 00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:11.639 although I think we should bring it back on The 963 00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:17.079 Ed Sullivan Show. They they did a scene which I 964 00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:19.039 didn't even know if they knew it was going to 965 00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:22.360 be deleted, but like to I don't know, promote the movie. 966 00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:27.159 They had Peter Graves and Shelley Winters do this deleted 967 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:32.559 scene which was then telling his Willa, his wife to 968 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:38.920 marry a man. Guess keeping her you know, no he 969 00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:44.400 you know, she's visiting him in prison. And then apparently 970 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:48.400 there was another Ed Sullivan appearance but with Mitcham and 971 00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:51.639 Shelley Winters. But Mitch was really bad and there's like 972 00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.480 a thing where he's talking about love and hate but 973 00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:56.880 he but he puts up the wrong hand. 974 00:51:57.519 --> 00:51:59.800 Uh, like he says love he was drunk. 975 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:04.719 Yeah, I get it, And that might have contributed to 976 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:06.920 the fact that the film was not a success. But 977 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:10.880 this idea of like, to promote a film, We're going 978 00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:13.119 to have the cast come on and do live Actually 979 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:14.519 it fits. 980 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:20.400 I have seen other Sullivan episodes with clips like that that. 981 00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:23.559 I remember a Mister Roberts seen played out on Ed Sullivan. 982 00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:26.440 I believe I remember a King and I scene played 983 00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:29.079 out on Ed Sullivan, so I hear what you're saying. 984 00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:32.760 And absolutely by today's you know, television and film standards, 985 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:35.840 it's crazy. But I guess back then, you know, yeah, 986 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.639 I'm sure you know some money was exchanged between a 987 00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:41.519 studio and Ed to promote the thing this way. 988 00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:43.480 Now on our stage. 989 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.400 Doesn't have Ed Sullivan introducing it, which I wish. 990 00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:48.199 That's a damn shame. 991 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:49.639 I wish it had that. 992 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:57.639 No, that's cool, man, I love it. Yeah again. Oh, 993 00:52:57.639 --> 00:52:59.639 I'm sorry, go ahead, j No, No, continue please. 994 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:03.400 The one thing about that kind of fascinates me about 995 00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:07.199 the Mitchem Preacher character is that you know, he's a 996 00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:10.360 serial killer and uh, and he's a preacher. But the 997 00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.239 but the one thing that really stood out to me 998 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:15.519 at the beginning of this is that he's driving along 999 00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:18.360 by himself talking to God. At the beginning of it, 1000 00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:20.079 he believes. 1001 00:53:19.639 --> 00:53:25.360 He does leitimately think he's talking about. 1002 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.519 I mean, he's everybody talks about him his character as 1003 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:31.199 a con man, but I don't think it's as simple 1004 00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:34.199 as that he believes in the stuff that he's talking about. 1005 00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:38.480 He talks about in the you know in the prison. 1006 00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:39.480 Uh. 1007 00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:42.000 He says that, you know, he both says, you know 1008 00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:46.719 with the uh you know, holding the switch blade, that 1009 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.000 that I come not in peace but with a sword, 1010 00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:53.719 you know, Uh, and uh and that that when Graham 1011 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:57.760 asks him what what religion it is that he professes 1012 00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:00.280 to to believe in, he says, the religion, Uh, the 1013 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:02.760 Almighty and Me worked out betwixt us. 1014 00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:03.360 Right. 1015 00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:08.000 So like it's it's his interpretation of all of this stuff. 1016 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:11.920 But I think that he I think that he firmly 1017 00:54:11.960 --> 00:54:14.679 believes it all too, which I think is something that 1018 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.559 is a more alienating thing for this you know, if 1019 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.800 you know, if you're a religious person, presumably if you're 1020 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.280 somebody in the Deep South or whatever, right like the 1021 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:27.000 people they would be worried about. 1022 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:28.800 Not not engaging with this movie. 1023 00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:31.159 It's a I mean, I think it's a more like 1024 00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:35.280 kind of a Boulder take than than you you probably 1025 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.440 would have gotten, you know, in something else. 1026 00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:43.280 No, he he has worked religion into his way of thinking. 1027 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:44.920 God approves of what he's doing. 1028 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:49.119 He has his own, you know, his own idea of it. 1029 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.159 It's like he is the idea. 1030 00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:56.599 Yeah, no, God gotta God gets me as I killed 1031 00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:57.199 well you're. 1032 00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:59.519 Saying, yeah, you've got plenty of killing in your bible, 1033 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:03.320 you know. He yeah,

right, he's given god ship. Yeah, 1034 00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:05.320 and telling him how you know. 1035 00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:08.679 He's like he knows that that he's on the right 1036 00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:09.960 track because of that, right. 1037 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:15.320 Yeah, he's what's his line, uh that where he expresses 1038 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.159 regret that he kid killed the whole world? 1039 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.679 Oh yeah, right, I can't remember it, but yeah. 1040 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:24.840 And he mentioned at the beginning that he's already killed 1041 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:27.360 widows before twelve thirteen. 1042 00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:28.760 Yeah. 1043 00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:30.760 Well, I think in the end of the movie they 1044 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:33.239 talk about like it was like twenty seven or something. 1045 00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:35.840 Oh wow, right, Like I remember when they're doing the trial, 1046 00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:38.159 it's like, yeah, he killed all these women and. 1047 00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:43.119 Then they like I'm not sure, like what I wasn't 1048 00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:44.199 sure what was happening here? 1049 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:46.280 This is where it got like a I. 1050 00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:50.079 And I feel like a lot of this is you know. 1051 00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:51.679 It's also you know. 1052 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.199 That three hundred page script of James AG's that gets 1053 00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.000 condensed down into you know, something like a movie where 1054 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.800 you know by by Lawton, I'm sure things. 1055 00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:05.360 Get lost, yes the wow. 1056 00:56:06.199 --> 00:56:09.000 Yeah, So James ag was like, you know, he had 1057 00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:12.280 written scripts, he wrote, he co wrote African Queen for 1058 00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.119 John Houston, and he uh and like he had a 1059 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:18.320 limited number of screenwriting credits, but he was also known 1060 00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:21.719 as like one of the kind of like the most 1061 00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:23.760 well regarded film critic at the. 1062 00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.159 Time, and that was how long a movie is? But 1063 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:27.840 yet he well. 1064 00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:31.159 But he look, you know, I mean, like this happens certainly, 1065 00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:35.119 and and it's also probably a first draft, right. 1066 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.599 And also James maybe he knew it. Maybe he knew 1067 00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:41.760 it or not, but he was definitely up against the 1068 00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:47.239 clock because he uh indulged and died young and actually 1069 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.320 died before this movie came out, so maybe that was. 1070 00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.760 Yeah, yeah, I have a book of age screenplays that 1071 00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:56.599 includes this and it the forward is by John Houston, 1072 00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:00.440 and he basically just talks about how, you know, the 1073 00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:01.800 you know, how. 1074 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:03.880 Gentle of a sort of a soul ag was, but 1075 00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:04.920 how hard. 1076 00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.400 Living he was and that and you know and his 1077 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:10.360 his his rumpled suits and his lack of attention to 1078 00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:13.480 you know, uh vanity and he. 1079 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.920 Was ah, you know, he was he abused himself, you. 1080 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.159 Know, and uh and like uh and it's there's controversy, 1081 00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:24.159 or at least people don't seem to be very clear 1082 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.880 on why he didn't revise the script. 1083 00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.960 Uh but and Lawton did. But but I can also. 1084 00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:33.239 Imagine that in you know, this is a low budget movie, 1085 00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:35.679 and in the relatively short amount of time that they 1086 00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:38.199 have to do this, having the guy who wrote a 1087 00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:41.519 three hundred page script for a ninety minute movie go down, 1088 00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:44.840 go back and try to revise it, it would probably 1089 00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.320 be less effective than somebody out the director just going 1090 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:48.559 I gotta cut this thing down. 1091 00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:51.519 The windows probably closeding Mitchen Brulany has so much time 1092 00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:52.119 to do his thing. 1093 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:55.639 Yeah, And it's similar to to to Citizen Kane. I mean, 1094 00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:59.280 you know and the the manka Witz Wells controversy with it, 1095 00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:02.880 where you know, people talk about, uh, you know, want 1096 00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:06.639 to assign credit but Makelwitz wrote on a big, unwieldy 1097 00:58:06.679 --> 00:58:08.679 screenplay that Orson Wells turned into a movie. 1098 00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:11.119 So you know, but I mean considering it it was 1099 00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:12.679 three hundred pages, I mean it was an hour and 1100 00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:13.079 a half. 1101 00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:15.840 Like that's cutting it down by more than a third, 1102 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:18.280 Like it's less than a third. 1103 00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:22.199 More yeah, right, yes, yeah, yeah, I don't know that. 1104 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:27.480 Pages right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you're losing a lot. 1105 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:29.679 But yeah, to your point about the about that the 1106 00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:33.519 kind of mob at the end and everything, it's a 1107 00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:35.119 little like, wait, are they. 1108 00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:37.239 Going after Mitcham? Are they? You know? 1109 00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:39.480 That was my

question because it was like it looked 1110 00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:42.719 it looked after the kids, right. 1111 00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:44.679 Yeah, well it feels like that because they see him 1112 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:45.559 and they start freaking out. 1113 00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:46.840 But wait, it's cut. 1114 00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:49.519 Yeah, it's like in the courtroom that all you see 1115 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:50.480 is the boy. 1116 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:53.320 You never see him, and you never. 1117 00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:55.719 See Mitcham in the courtroom, which I thought was weird. 1118 00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:59.000 So yeah, there was a lot of weird editing going on. 1119 00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:01.360 And I see back of that film. I see is 1120 00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:01.960 flipped out. 1121 00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:05.199 She's now gone because she realizes she's enabled this, and 1122 00:59:05.239 --> 00:59:09.679 I guess it's broke her brain or when you went yeah, 1123 00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:12.800 icy spoon. So when you see her again, the first 1124 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:18.079 thing she says is land jam and yeah, she's not 1125 00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:21.360 middle about it, and uh. And then they're out there 1126 00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:24.679 like the Frankenstein mob. They've got ropes and broken chairs 1127 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:31.800 and torches and stuff like that. And then when and 1128 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.159 then they see her in the in the store and 1129 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.039 she's going there's the two we send against blah blah 1130 00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:42.960 blah and and miss yuh and Lillian Gish realizes like, uh, you. 1131 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:45.360 Better get out of here and she drags them out 1132 00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:47.800 the back way and is. 1133 00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:51.000 Not paid off though the fact that they the mobs 1134 00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.400 going down the street, we see uh her, le Lily 1135 00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:57.280 and Gish leave with the kids and then hand off 1136 00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:01.639 to Mitch snu right back, and then it's just like 1137 01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:06.039 that's it. There's not a there's no further payoffs the mob. 1138 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:07.159 Yeah, well there is. 1139 01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:12.800 The hangman that they walk by him, and he's like, 1140 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.440 with pleasure or whatever to do the job. 1141 01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:17.440 I mean, there's just not a pay off to the mob, 1142 01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:20.559 like they're yeah, you leave them out there, you know. 1143 01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:25.079 Also at the beginning, he regrets, you know, hanging Peter Graves, 1144 01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:27.119 and then we come back around to him he's like, 1145 01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:28.559 I'm looking forward to this one. 1146 01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:33.119 Right, yeah, looking at his own kids and everything, and 1147 01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:35.480 then it cuts to the other kids in the playground 1148 01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:38.320 so thoughtfully singing the Hangman song in front of Earl 1149 01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:43.280 and John Yeah, and then Earl singing along with it, 1150 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:44.760 and he's like, don't do that. 1151 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:47.119 Again. 1152 01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:51.159 Pearl is so wonderfully innocent and to the point of 1153 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:56.280 rushing to Mitcham's arms and really trusting him and everything. 1154 01:00:56.320 --> 01:00:59.320 And also just you know what happens to the money 1155 01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:00.639 is yeah, great. 1156 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah, the kids don't keep I guess the 1157 01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:05.159 police took the money. 1158 01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:07.519 I mean, well, that's the thing. We don't know what 1159 01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:08.440 happens to unclear. 1160 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:13.360 Yeah, don't have unless Lily and Gish spent ten thousand 1161 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:14.199 dollars on the watch. 1162 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:19.440 They all have better clothes they. 1163 01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:26.840 I've forgotten what happened to the money, and was expecting 1164 01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:31.119 John to hand Lily and Gish the dollar whatever and go, 1165 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:32.239 this might help us. 1166 01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:36.519 Yeah, that's because you're from today and this. 1167 01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:41.599 Is back then. Right, Well the money is even yeah exactly. 1168 01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:43.320 Lily would have been like this is blood money. 1169 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:43.880 Yeah. 1170 01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:46.000 Yeah, But I mean I don't I think that the 1171 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:49.880 you know, there's an expectation that would be dramatized, though, 1172 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:51.920 I mean, and uh, and the fact that it's not. 1173 01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:54.239 Here's the thing though about a lot of this stuff 1174 01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:57.480 where it feels like some parts are missing or it 1175 01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:00.480 doesn't quite come together or whatever. I think that that's 1176 01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:03.599 a value in a lot of ways. I think if 1177 01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:06.960 this movie was more conventional, it wouldn't be thought of 1178 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.480 as well. Now, I don't think that it I think 1179 01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:12.400 the gaps and stuff and the places where you can 1180 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.079 dream about it, and the places that can haunt you 1181 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.719 because you don't know exactly are the powerful. 1182 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:20.159 Things in a lot of ways. 1183 01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.800 It's interesting once Lily and shoots him with the bird shot, 1184 01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:28.079 you never hear mitcham again. All you hear is his

1185 01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:33.559 whoa as he's running though they have like a yeah 1186 01:02:33.679 --> 01:02:38.639 that's true, but you know that I think when they're 1187 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:41.320 kind of standing off, yeah yeah, sure. 1188 01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:42.760 Yeah, and she's like, I'm not afraid of you, and 1189 01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:44.800 then I'm going to join you in this him that 1190 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:45.719 I know very well. 1191 01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:49.760 No again, that was that was great? Kind of bizarre. 1192 01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:53.920 Yeah, he as it's the movie like like like the 1193 01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:58.519 car dealer in Fargo rightly reduced to annible howls. 1194 01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:01.760 Right right, interesting, hilarious. 1195 01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:04.559 I forget who was supposed to he was originally going 1196 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:08.960 to get for the Miss Cooper part, and Elsa Lancaster 1197 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:12.559 said what Lillian gish And since he had been watching 1198 01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:14.039 all the silence, I think he was like. 1199 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:16.360 Oh, yeah, duh, and you know this is perfect. 1200 01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:19.320 And it's like because she can really talk in real 1201 01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:22.000 life and she is great in it. 1202 01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:23.760 It's amazing. Yeah. 1203 01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:26.280 What did you guys think about the messaging having to 1204 01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:31.639 do with children enduring tragedy and horrible things, and. 1205 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:32.440 I get it. 1206 01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:36.599 Sadly stronger and a young age, I get it, and 1207 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:40.079 not certainly not under the circumstances of John and Pearl. 1208 01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:44.639 But no, it's I saw truth in that. I did. 1209 01:03:44.679 --> 01:03:46.800 I mean, the resilience thing, I think it's just talking 1210 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:46.960 of it. 1211 01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:49.679 I mean to me, I took it just as you know, 1212 01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:52.280 you have the ability to be resilient because you can 1213 01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:55.519 move past up. I mean that is a certainly you 1214 01:03:55.559 --> 01:04:01.679 know pre uh you know Freud idea, you know, yeah, 1215 01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:05.159 Like it's exactly like it's it's the you know, it's 1216 01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:07.800 it's the kind of idea of what children were in 1217 01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:09.400 you know that. 1218 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:11.639 That I don't think we have anymore, you know, the 1219 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.039 float down the river in Ohio. But I really that 1220 01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:16.960 reminds me. 1221 01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.199 I always like, I'd so badly want them to grab 1222 01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:22.079 some food off the table before they run. 1223 01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:25.800 Because you know,

money, why didn't they use it? 1224 01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:29.960 Made this enormous spread that ice he made, and he 1225 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.159 puts it out like he's trying more to get the 1226 01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:33.920 thing out of him. 1227 01:04:34.119 --> 01:04:36.599 And I'm like, I speak, it's probably because a literal 1228 01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:39.960 monster is following them. There's that thing where they're they're 1229 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:42.400 in the cellar and they're running out and this what 1230 01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:45.559 is kind of an awkward shot, that profile shot of 1231 01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:48.679 the stairs and him like, you know, the monster. 1232 01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:55.199 Frank absolutely Frank. And seller sellers really aren't seventy feet 1233 01:04:55.280 --> 01:05:00.920 tall was another great place to make that really. 1234 01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:05.280 Movies are fair. It's a cruel joke. 1235 01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:08.840 I've been in Amsterdam and and I've been in houses 1236 01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:10.760 like that and they are they are deep sellers. 1237 01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:14.840 So I'm just saying, yeah, well do we want to go. 1238 01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:18.559 I don't want to on that hill. I don't want 1239 01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:20.400 some sort of cruel joke or anything. I'm like, no, 1240 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:21.239 that's not what I'm saying. 1241 01:05:22.039 --> 01:05:23.760 Because it looks cool, it's like it's great. 1242 01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:28.360 Yeah, well it's it's like effective. I mean, it's like 1243 01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:30.840 you're you know, it's it's not about making everything real, 1244 01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:32.880 it's about making everything feel like something. 1245 01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:34.960 Yeah. No, it's amazing. 1246 01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:41.079 The Stanley Cortez the DP talked about how you know, 1247 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:44.880 in the interviews I watched with him, he talked, he 1248 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:46.559 you know, he does the thing where he takes a 1249 01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:49.079 lot of credit for for the visuals of it, but 1250 01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:52.159 he also you know, I mean he defers in some 1251 01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:56.000 ways to UHL. 1252 01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:56.159 But the but he Uh. 1253 01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:01.679 He talked about making that scene where the where the 1254 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.679 wind he kills her, the very stylized uh triangle, the 1255 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:10.400 him doing and the fact that uh, that mitcham is 1256 01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:14.960 is doing this kind of kaligari ish sort of silent 1257 01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:22.239 bizarre movement business and that uh that Cortes thinks about 1258 01:06:22.239 --> 01:06:26.119 stuff in terms of music, and he was uh and 1259 01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:29.599 he was thinking, like Lawton is asking him, what what 1260 01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:31.719 you know, what he's thinking about when lighting it and 1261 01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:35.039 and uh and he tells him that it's a particular 1262 01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.440 waltz that that he's imagining that uh, that's kind of 1263 01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:40.760 influencing the feel of of the way he lit it. 1264 01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:43.719 And uh and you know, and then Lawton gets on 1265 01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:47.719 board with this and like they the the score ends 1266 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:52.000 up reflecting that that waltz because uh, because he had 1267 01:06:52.119 --> 01:06:57.719 the composer h Walter Walter Shulman come down and uh 1268 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:01.440 and like observe them shooting this and talked about, you know, 1269 01:07:01.519 --> 01:07:05.000 how the music could work with it and and and 1270 01:07:05.079 --> 01:07:10.119 also Walter Schulman famous for composing the dragnet theme. But 1271 01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.079 the and I actually can't think of a lot of 1272 01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:15.800 other stuff I know that he's done. But but like 1273 01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:20.480 I I the the ways that that these elements come together, 1274 01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.880 the you know, the very bold visuals that Stanley Korte 1275 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:28.159 has shoots. Also, Stanley Korte has notoriously very slow, which 1276 01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.199 I think is another reason why they probably didn't get 1277 01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:34.280 all the shots that they needed. But very slow on 1278 01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:35.360 a low budget movie. 1279 01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:37.360 But the but. 1280 01:07:37.480 --> 01:07:39.559 Obviously it pays off in the way, you know in 1281 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:41.480 some of these amazing visuals. 1282 01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:45.639 They get into the Christmas ending, so where the. 1283 01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:51.320 Everything sort of collects and tries to ground things and 1284 01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:54.360 that now there's this happy life. John's actually acting like 1285 01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:59.639 a kid who as parents. He gets a watch, which 1286 01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:03.760 is what I believe he wanted in the window early 1287 01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:07.440 on when they're looking at it, and Pearl's probably assuming 1288 01:08:07.519 --> 01:08:08.840 just take some money out of this doll. 1289 01:08:08.920 --> 01:08:09.400 And just. 1290 01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:16.640 When I first saw this film, there's I had the 1291 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:19.439 I have this idea of what the ending would be, 1292 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:22.000 which is, you may notice at the beginning there's a 1293 01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:26.239 bit where Pearl is making paper dolls out of the money, 1294 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:29.439 and I thought the end of the movie would be 1295 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:32.920 Robert Mission finds the money, but in saw paper dolls, and. 1296 01:08:33.279

--> 01:08:34.399 That would have been a great ending. 1297 01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:36.039 I'm sort of disappointed. 1298 01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:42.199 We had these images I saw. 1299 01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:48.680 Yeah, oh this this shot actually that Yeah, the shot 1300 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:52.840 of her in silhouette with the guns his lip. 1301 01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:54.319 And he's right there. 1302 01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:56.760 You want it, Yeah, with that little spot thing behind 1303 01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:59.000 the gun, and like, I think that's one of the 1304 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.880 most amazing images in movie. 1305 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:04.960 No, we haven't talked about Ruby, which is a very 1306 01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:06.079 disturbing kind of character. 1307 01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:07.000 Yeah. 1308 01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:13.239 Yeah, yeah, the teenage girl who's you know, starting to 1309 01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:17.560 blossom and with the near you know, she's one of 1310 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:22.000 Lily and Gisha's adopted kids and getting older obviously and 1311 01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:23.479 starting to uh. 1312 01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:26.359 You know we have now boys. 1313 01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:28.840 Yeah, we have an actual lady on the podcast this time. 1314 01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.079 What elseon What did you think about? 1315 01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:33.760 Well, like I said before, I mean it's obvious that 1316 01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:37.960 like all of the women like have this weird like 1317 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.520 he has a trance over them and something like every 1318 01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:45.479 single woman in the movie except for our hero, really. 1319 01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:48.319 They have an effect. 1320 01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:51.119 I thought it was interesting how frank. 1321 01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:54.239 She was in the store about you know, oh, they're 1322 01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:56.279 gonna get in you know, they get in trouble, and 1323 01:09:56.279 --> 01:10:02.319 then I end up with another kid, and I was like, wow, yeah. 1324 01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.399 In a yeah, in a in a pre gro V 1325 01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:09.760 Wade world where where like people are just you know, people, 1326 01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:12.319 people are people, and they have sex, and then there's kids, 1327 01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:15.640 and then you know, and but it's the depression and 1328 01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:17.920 people can't take care of the kids, and you know, 1329 01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:21.720 it's I mean, I thought that was all pretty interesting 1330 01:10:21.800 --> 01:10:26.600 and an interesting not not as I mean for that 1331 01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:29.920 that Lillian Gish character feels like it she should be 1332 01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:33.880 something a little unappealing to me, you know, like that 1333 01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:37.920 she should be this kind of strict, bibly lady or whatever. 1334 01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:39.680 And but she's a little more, I think, a more 1335 01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:41.039 interesting and nuanced character. 1336 01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:44.439 She's the right hand to Bitchub's left. Yeah. 1337 01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:46.760 Sure, but I'm saying it shouldn't but not in a 1338 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:49.720 not in a way that I don't find it as 1339 01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:51.720 heavy handed as that. I mean, I think that there's 1340 01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:53.239 something there's more interesting nuance in that. 1341 01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:55.199 Yeah, that's where they actually take it off of John 1342 01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.079 and Pearl for a minute and let her deal with 1343 01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:01.439 her and she understands she's you were looking for love 1344 01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:02.239 and she hugs her. 1345 01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:04.800 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1346 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:09.520 There's a realist, but she's also religious. It's like that 1347 01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:15.000 that combo is really where we're thinking for its time 1348 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:17.079 in a movie like this. 1349 01:11:18.279 --> 01:11:19.720 It's very interesting. 1350 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:22.680 And treats them, treats everybody like human beings, not you know, 1351 01:11:22.840 --> 01:11:26.640 she's not just judging everybody or you know, or like 1352 01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:29.760 making pronouncements or whatever. I mean, she treats people like 1353 01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:33.159 human beings and like you know that live in the world, 1354 01:11:33.319 --> 01:11:34.640 you know, like like we do. 1355 01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:36.680 And if you think about it, like everybody else else 1356 01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:40.039 in the movie does judge people and does make pronouncements, 1357 01:11:40.039 --> 01:11:42.600 and like that's she's the antithesis of that. 1358 01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:44.239 Yes, absolutely, Yeah. 1359 01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:47.880 She's a little high and mighty about herself and her role, 1360 01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:51.359 but that's her only real that's her only real flaw 1361 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:53.960 is she's like, well, I'll probably have to take care 1362 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.039 of him because I'm so strong and this is what 1363 01:11:56.079 --> 01:11:56.399 I do. 1364 01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:01.560 But self justification, Yeah, it's the setup of her character though, 1365 01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:04.039 I mean, like she's she's presented herself that way, but 1366 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:06.159 then through her behavior we see something different. 1367 01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:07.000 Right. 1368 01:12:07.319 --> 01:12:11.600 How was the movie regarded contemporarily in the fifties and everything? 1369 01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:13.159 I mean, I know now it's a class. 1370 01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:14.439 But critics hated it and. 1371 01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:20.680 Yeah, no, I mean again,

I don't know if you 1372 01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:22.279 saw any quotes or anything. 1373 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:24.520 Like that from critics, anything specific, and I would. 1374 01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:27.239 Imagine that, Yeah, even an audience really wouldn't be excited 1375 01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:31.000 to see something that's scary and and you know threatening. 1376 01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:33.600 I think it's probably people didn't know what to think 1377 01:12:33.640 --> 01:12:35.640 of it. I'd think that it was like I don't 1378 01:12:35.640 --> 01:12:41.800 know that, especially back then, finding its audience would have 1379 01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:42.680 been rather difficult. 1380 01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:43.039 I think. 1381 01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:45.600 Yeah, and we think of it as I mean, not this, 1382 01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:48.880 not the people in the on this podcast or whatever, 1383 01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:51.760 but in general, you think of of the you know 1384 01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:54.239 of oh, it's an old movie, it's in black and white, 1385 01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:57.039 it's stylized or whatever, but it's so out of step 1386 01:12:57.119 --> 01:12:59.520 with what was being made in the midde fifties, were 1387 01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:03.600 there move towards you know, more naturalism and shooting on 1388 01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:07.479 location and you know, stuff that is not going down 1389 01:13:07.479 --> 01:13:10.800 a river and ending up at two cut out houses 1390 01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:15.520 in the background. You know, like it's it's so deliberately stylized, 1391 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:18.600 and I think that people would think look at it 1392 01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:21.640 and go, well, this is old fashioned and dumb, Like 1393 01:13:21.720 --> 01:13:24.840 we get better stuff than this, you know, yeah. 1394 01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:29.159 We like, oh it's the the tributes to the Silent film. 1395 01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:30.960 But in the fifties, I think a lot of people 1396 01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:33.720 are probably still just embarrassed by a Silence. 1397 01:13:34.159 --> 01:13:36.159 Tribute I think it's just speaking in the language of 1398 01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:40.680 some films and you know, which is legitimate. You know, 1399 01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:44.119 I mean Martin SCORSESEI will use that Iris shot, you know, 1400 01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:47.439 like all sorts of you know there, you could use anything, 1401 01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:51.199 and you know, but I think that a non you know, 1402 01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:54.760 like the fifties were not really a time when there 1403 01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:58.319 was any kind of popular sense of you know, artie 1404 01:13:58.359 --> 01:14:01.079 films and STEVI was just you know, their cities and 1405 01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:03.439 cities had art houses and they you know, and you 1406 01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:06.239 could maybe see Cazawa and you know later Bergmann and 1407 01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:08.600 stuff like that. But but I don't think there was 1408 01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:11.319 a you know, it's not an arty movie, was never 1409 01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:12.760 gonna make money, you know. 1410 01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:14.720 And that's a it's a it's an arty movie, but 1411 01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:18.399 it's not urban or urbane right right ready for. 1412 01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:21.199 Like a it's very naive in a lot of ways. 1413 01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:25.319 It doesn't it's not something that uh like uh sophistic 1414 01:14:25.399 --> 01:14:26.880 kids get behind. 1415 01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:30.319 Or whatever you were forgetting who who did Cape Fear? 1416 01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:32.479 But I wonder if this was kind of a dress 1417 01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:35.319 rehearsal for Mitcham's Max Katie. 1418 01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:38.560 And I mean I think that it's uh, I mean, 1419 01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:39.239 I think it's. 1420 01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:44.359 Uhh I do know who made the original Kate Fear, 1421 01:14:44.399 --> 01:14:52.680 but the but like I uh, J Lee Thompson, Thompson, I. 1422 01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:56.479 Love uh and uh, I mean I think that it's 1423 01:14:56.600 --> 01:14:59.640 that that Mitcham was drawn to roles like this, right, 1424 01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:03.319 Like I mean he loved Lawton like apparently he was 1425 01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:07.199 just he and like despite how how harsh we're talking 1426 01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:11.680 about London being coming off in those dailies, like it's 1427 01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:15.439 like people were devoted to him, Like everybody they talked 1428 01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:19.920 to was like found him like a really compelling character 1429 01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:23.000 that they wanted to be there with and do this 1430 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:23.560 this film with. 1431 01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:27.439 Well I've heard that about the k Utiney trial that 1432 01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:31.079 he did on Broadway and everything, and even you know, 1433 01:15:31.199 --> 01:15:33.640 James Garner was one of the judges that never has 1434 01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:37.520 a line. But it's among the the inquiry Naval inquiry 1435 01:15:37.560 --> 01:15:41.520 and everything while everyone is testifying and yeah, and I 1436 01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:46.000 mean just again, actors and actors cast of Fonda and 1437 01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:47.239 or not fund was it fonded? 1438 01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:50.920 No? I think it, Yeah, was absolutely was fonder. 1439 01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:55.800 But Fonda and okay, now Lloyd Nolan and all these 1440 01:15:55.840 --> 01:15:59.279 all these wonderful actors and stuff actors actors in that way, 1441 01:15:59.479 --> 01:16:03.119 so I could see the cast, wanting to please lot 1442 01:16:03.119 --> 01:16:06.800 and and everything, and appreciating his prestige and his opinion. 1443 01:16:07.479 --> 01:16:10.319 Do we know who who lied the

critical re evaluation 1444 01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:12.239 of the film? 1445 01:16:12.359 --> 01:16:13.760 I mean, I don't. 1446 01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:17.399 I certainly remember it being considered something more of a 1447 01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:20.840 you know, of a thing in the eighties when I 1448 01:16:20.960 --> 01:16:23.359 was a kid and first getting into movie nerd stuff. 1449 01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:26.560 But I don't know really though. It must have been 1450 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:27.640 in the seventies. 1451 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.720 I suppose that's what I was going to say. 1452 01:16:29.760 --> 01:16:32.159 And again I'm being being a bit older than all 1453 01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:35.840 of you, but I can't say if it was seventies, 1454 01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:37.520 but I think it was. I think it was one 1455 01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:41.239 of those great Hollywood documentaries about the history of Hollywood 1456 01:16:41.279 --> 01:16:44.560 where they show the mitcham love hate scene and everything. 1457 01:16:45.079 --> 01:16:48.520 I know, by the way, Tulsa King, Uh, there's a 1458 01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:52.359 there's a character Robert Patrick's son has his name on 1459 01:16:52.399 --> 01:16:56.000 his fist, Cole and as much as Ian pointed out 1460 01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:59.600 in Sideshow Bob in The Simpsons. But hey, no, no, no, man, 1461 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:01.119 that's that's pop culture and action. 1462 01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:02.399 Absolutely, man. I love that. 1463 01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:06.039 I mean, other directors started talking. I mean this Scorsese 1464 01:17:06.239 --> 01:17:08.439 does talk about this movie, and he was actually involved 1465 01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:11.680 in the restoration and he was a teacher at n 1466 01:17:11.760 --> 01:17:14.239 YU maybe in the seventies, so maybe he was. 1467 01:17:14.439 --> 01:17:17.199 Yeah, yeah, in the early seventies. 1468 01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:20.760 Yeah he was, because like Alan Arkish was one of 1469 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:24.439 his students, and Alan Arkish was working at the Fillmore 1470 01:17:24.439 --> 01:17:27.279 East and and uh and Martin scor says he got 1471 01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:29.079 tickets to see the band from him. 1472 01:17:29.680 --> 01:17:33.239 So but that dates, Yeah, that makes up for heart beeps. 1473 01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:38.119 Yeah, I'm not I'm not making the case for Alan 1474 01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:39.119 Arkish as a director. 1475 01:17:40.520 --> 01:17:43.880 But also like this, this movie is, uh, you can 1476 01:17:43.920 --> 01:17:46.960 see the Coen Brothers, Like this movie was certainly how 1477 01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.239 to have a huge Yeah. 1478 01:17:50.279 --> 01:17:51.359 Oh, and I wanted to say one thing. 1479 01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:53.640 We were talking about how it was received at the time, 1480 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.199 and Joe Dante did a Trailers from Hell about this 1481 01:17:57.720 --> 01:18:01.560 and he talked about how they've screened it at a 1482 01:18:01.720 --> 01:18:02.800 kid's matinee. 1483 01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:04.760 This is how he saw it the first time. 1484 01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:08.000 He said, there were like there are ten cartoons and 1485 01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:11.079 then apparently the only movie they had to screen was 1486 01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:15.199 A Night of the Hunter, which they audience of children, 1487 01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:18.199 who I presumably this was like seeing the Velvet Underground 1488 01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:20.720 and that everybody starts a band right like you like 1489 01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:23.479 you're traumatized by Night of the Hunter as a child, 1490 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.600 and then you go on to make Grumlins whatever the. 1491 01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:27.520 Fuck right, that's oh, that's true. 1492 01:18:27.680 --> 01:18:30.359 That probably also perplexed critics, like it's a movie that 1493 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:32.199 stars kids, but it's not four kids. 1494 01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:33.560 Yeah right, right, of course. 1495 01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:38.520 I mean that's also from a marketing perspective, I can 1496 01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:42.399 see them where this movie would be completely impossible to market. 1497 01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:42.960 Yeah. 1498 01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:45.840 Yeah. None of the posters had the kids in them, 1499 01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:47.520 I guess because they didn't want people to think it 1500 01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:49.880 was a kid's movie. But then like when people you 1501 01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:51.840 would think some of these posters, you would think it's 1502 01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:55.680 a pro bank between Robert Mitchaminchell, it's like, who are 1503 01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:56.399 you selling guys? 1504 01:18:56.439 --> 01:18:58.520 Yeah, well that's I mean so often that's the case. 1505 01:18:58.520 --> 01:19:01.920 When there's any little thing that they can exploit that 1506 01:19:02.039 --> 01:19:06.640 feels like romance or maybe feels like you know, crime, 1507 01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:09.560 you know, that'll be the poster, regardless of the movie. 1508 01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:12.640 Like Allison says, imagine how hard to sell that is? 1509 01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:14.760 Like, yeah, it's impossible, And. 1510 01:19:14.720 --> 01:19:17.079 I've done Killer, and he's after. 1511 01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:25.479 Imagine this kill good movie of the year. 1512 01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:30.439 But it is kind of classic Mitcham picking rules like 1513 01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:32.560 this that you know, I don't. 1514 01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:33.640 Care if they like it and that I think this 1515 01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:35.399 is interesting or whatever this is. 1516 01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:39.680 This is also a post uh you know marijuana bust 1517 01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:43.560 Mitcham right that he you know, he went to the 1518 01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:46.439 work farm for for six months and he just fucking 1519 01:19:46.520 --> 01:19:49.279 came back and like just through you know, force of 1520 01:19:49.399 --> 01:19:51.680 not giving a fuck. It did nothing to his career, 1521 01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:55.560 you know, so like, uh, you know, Mitcham, Mitcham could 1522 01:19:56.039 --> 01:19:57.800 he could, he could go away with stuff. 1523 01:19:59.279 --> 01:20:01.920 Absolutely, well, there you go, kids, we could wrap it there. 1524 01:20:02.079 --> 01:20:02.920 I think we did good. 1525 01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:06.279 Yeah, unless anyone else had some final thoughts other than 1526 01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.439 obviously for the uninitiated, you got to see this movie. 1527 01:20:10.439 --> 01:20:12.760 You know, we did our best, but you know, feel 1528 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:14.560 free if we didn't give you a clear enough picture 1529 01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:20.960 to consult other capsule reviews. But truly a classic from 1530 01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:23.760 the fifties and saw on Amazon and to b. 1531 01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:27.520 I think, so yeah, just just watch it and let 1532 01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:28.239 it wash over you. 1533 01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:34.319 Absolute yeah, So thank you everybody. I'm really glad everybody 1534 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:35.239 could join us today. 1535 01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:38.159 And this is great. I hope you. I hope some 1536 01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:38.920 of you that are. 1537 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.960 Like al Or or Lieber, you know, you come back 1538 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:45.239 and do another movie with us at some point. That 1539 01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:49.600 would be great. Yeah, excellent, excellent. All right, we can 1540 01:20:49.640 --> 01:20:52.760 wrap it there. Thanks everybody for watching and listening. Until 1541 01:20:52.840 --> 01:21:05.880 next time, everybody, stay safe, stay happy, stay healthy,